S4 Episode 29: John 17:1-11

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What does being one look like?

Additional texts:

Acts 1:6-14

Psalm 68:1-10, 32-35

1 Peter 4:12-14; 5:6-11

Acts 1:1-11

Psalm 47

Psalm 93

Ephesians 1:15-23

Luke 24:44-53

Provisional Readings:

Isaiah 45:1-7

Psalm 21:1-7

Daniel 7:9-14

Psalm 24:7-10

Transcript

00:05.88
Kevin Shock
You can't spell tend without end. So bring to an end whatever it is you're doing and get ready to attend.

00:17.40
Nathan Pile
I thought you were announcing something I wasn't ready for you to announce. Like we were done.

00:21.59
Kevin Shock
No, we're not done. No, no, I'm just saying, just saying end whatever it is you're doing now and

00:23.03
Nathan Pile
Okay.

00:29.02
Kevin Shock
ah tend, tend your, tend your soul, tend your faith, ah tend scripture along with me and Nathan.

00:34.29
Nathan Pile
Deep. Nice.

00:37.49
Nathan Pile
Deep. I like that.

00:38.45
Kevin Shock
it's an, It's an invitation to you.

00:39.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah. There we go.

00:41.30
Kevin Shock
Today, Nathan and I are looking at John chapter 17 verses 1 through 11. This is part of the big part of John where Jesus teaches his disciples a lot and prays a lot and does.

00:54.65
Kevin Shock
There's a lot of um mostly I was gonna say dialogue, but mostly monologue, honestly, for like four chapters or more.

01:00.72
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:03.03
Kevin Shock
um And we are looking at John 17 because Jesus is wordy in the common English Bible. So hopefully that will make it a little more understandable.

01:16.34
Kevin Shock
um I think we'll be okay. And the three questions that we are looking at today, two of them are like usual. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

01:27.10
Kevin Shock
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And then the third question, what does being one look like?

01:36.13
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

01:39.21
Nathan Pile
Wow. Some information about your hosts. We're men married to women in financially stable households, white firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

01:49.43
Nathan Pile
We work in the Lutheran Church and we were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole communities’ compiled interpretation for life with God and one another,

02:07.83
Nathan Pile
so we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as well

02:15.74
Nathan Pile
John seventeen When Jesus finished saying these things, he looked up to heaven and said, Father, the time has come.

02:26.45
Nathan Pile
Glorify your son so that the son can glorify you. You gave him authority over everyone so that he could give eternal life to everyone you gave him.

02:37.82
Nathan Pile
This is eternal life to know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. I have glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.

02:50.90
Nathan Pile
Now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I shared with you before the world was created. I have revealed your name to the people you gave me from this world.

03:02.87
Nathan Pile
They were yours and you gave them to me and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. This is because I gave them the words that you gave me and they received them.

03:17.85
Nathan Pile
They truly understood that I came from you and they believed that you sent me. I'm praying for them. I'm not praying for the world, but for those you gave me because they are yours.

03:31.58
Nathan Pile
Everything that is mine is yours and everything that is yours is mine. I have been glorified in them. I'm no longer in the world, but they are in the world.

03:42.74
Nathan Pile
Even as I'm coming to you, Holy Father, watch over them in your name, the name you gave me, that they will be one just as we are one.

03:57.91
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. And if you're just listening along, um Kevin's going to ah answer the first question. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

04:15.35
Kevin Shock
Um, I went down a little rabbit hole right at the beginning because I wanted to see what, when Jesus finished saying these things, I wanted to see what those things were. And I mean, he's talking to his, he's talking to his disciples about, um, how he has to go away. I mean, there are several things that he says in chapter 16, but he has to go away. he won't leave them alone.

04:36.63
Kevin Shock
um all that kind of stuff. Um, So then I didn't, I didn't get back to fully paying attention to what you were reading until about halfway through. ah ah but ah But actually, the thing that I... The word that hear

05:00.47
Kevin Shock
does come from the first half, and it's, it's glorify.

05:04.09
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

05:04.70
Kevin Shock
um We actually... I mean, we had we had that word... Not in the exact same way, but we we talked about glory last week in our podcast episode too, about giving glory to God.

05:19.64
Kevin Shock
ah Glorifying, I, I mean, I think this is because it comes from John's gospel. I just think of it as, as making something known. um Illuminating something.

05:35.00
Kevin Shock
But correct me, Correct me if I'm wrong, Nathan, but the whole point of, or, I mean, I know I'm not wrong, but, but

05:46.52
Nathan Pile
Well, that's good because I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to be do what he's asking you me to do.

05:49.78
Kevin Shock
no, you, no, you, you're definitely capable. um Give, give some, give some extra explanation if you need, if you need to, from what I'm about to say, but pretty much the whole point of John's gospel is to make God known to the people and, and the way, yes.

06:04.37
Nathan Pile
Yes. Gnosis.

06:05.63
Kevin Shock
Okay. Okay.

06:06.47
Nathan Pile
Gnosis. Yeah.

06:07.43
Kevin Shock
Gnosis. Okay. Knowledge. Right.

06:09.13
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

06:09.28
Kevin Shock
Um, so the, um, and the way that, the way that God accomplishes that is by sending the word made flesh, the, the, the entirety of God made in human form.

06:17.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

06:21.69
Kevin Shock
And, um, so that's what I think of when I think of when I, especially when I read the word glorify in John's gospel, I think that this is, this is about illuminating who God is. I have, uh, I have,

06:35.83
Kevin Shock
or or making known who God is. I have made you known on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. I have illuminated you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. um Yeah, so that, ah like that, this is this is part of the prayer.

06:54.49
Kevin Shock
like we Like we get further down into actually praying for things in a little bit, but this is like, i I think another weird thing right from the beginning of this reading is that Jesus talks about himself in the third person during this prayer, which I don't quite understand. um

07:14.10
Kevin Shock
But yeah, anyway, I'm curious. I'm just curious.

07:22.96
Kevin Shock
I'm getting off track here. I'm curious about...

07:28.57
Kevin Shock
Like, who, who really wrote this prayer?

07:34.98
Kevin Shock
It's attributed to Jesus in John's Gospel. But why if I were praying something about myself, why would I use my own name? I don't know. like, Like, this is part of the prayer that Jesus is saying. When he says, this is eternal life, to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent.

07:52.22
Kevin Shock
Why wouldn't he say, and me, whom you sent? Yeah. I, yeah

08:01.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I

08:05.37
Nathan Pile
So John is, is by far the most polished of the four gospel writers.

08:09.94
Kevin Shock
Yes. Right. Yes.

08:11.42
Nathan Pile
But it's still not polished enough to be modern English.

08:17.30
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, there's that. There's just also like, like definitely I'm not saying that I'm not saying that the, the author and editor of John put words in Jesus's mouth. Like, I mean, I think that this, this is a story. this ah the, The gospel is the good news of Jesus Christ. It's the story about Jesus coming into the world, his death and his resurrection.

08:44.41
Kevin Shock
um

08:47.26
Kevin Shock
But also, like, we John's gospel is the only place we had a couple of weeks ago. don't know. i don't think I don't think we talked about it on the podcast, but we had a reading from from John 20 of John's. Maybe we did talk about the podcast. I can't recall.

09:03.38
Kevin Shock
I don't think we did. um Where it, it lays out the purpose from the book for the book in John 20. And I said in my sermon that week that like this, this is the only place in Scripture where we are addressed, where the reader is spoken to.

09:19.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

09:25.24
Kevin Shock
Where at the at the end of of chapter 20 in John's Gospel, where where it says, Jesus did many other things that are not written in this book, but these things are written in this book so that you, meaning the reader, may come to believe that he is that the true son of God and in believing you may have life in his name.

09:47.67
Kevin Shock
So I, like, I was, I was actually talking to Lisa about this and, and she and her response to me was, John's gospel breaks the fourth wall?

09:59.18
Kevin Shock
And I said, yes, it does. It's like the only, it's the only place in scripture that does it.

10:01.87
Nathan Pile
Ha ha ha ha.

10:05.34
Kevin Shock
um And so, yeah, now I'm just thinking of that. when When you hear Jesus referring to himself in the third person, it's almost like it's breaking the fourth wall again. It's almost like, like, did Jesus pray this prayer or is the, is the narrator praying, like praying this prayer through Jesus? Yeah.

10:26.39
Kevin Shock
I mean, again, I believe it's a true story about Jesus. But we also can talk about true... Is true detailed fact is truth detailed fact or is truth illuminating, glorifying what God wants to be glorified?

10:46.01
Kevin Shock
Okay, I'm going to stop talking for a little while. I just was rambling there.

10:53.50
Nathan Pile
Well, but I think, again, the, the, the beauty of John also brings on more questions, right?

11:05.69
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

11:06.46
Nathan Pile
He's trying to articulate the truth. He's trying to articulate the knowledge of God and God's son.

11:15.58
Nathan Pile
And I agree with you. I think there's a there's absolutely places in this um where the writer of John, again, most likely not the disciple named John, but a disciple of the disciple named John. You know, it could be John, but it would be really old John.

11:42.90
Nathan Pile
Because we're talking about 110, 120 years is when this text is written, um, is the, is, is our, is our understanding at this point from a historical perspective.

11:50.31
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

11:55.93
Nathan Pile
So because again, they didn't write it and then put the date. We don't have that. um But we try to take details from the whole gospel and say, what did they know?

12:11.38
Nathan Pile
And when did that historically actually happen? And so here we have all of a sudden this, we we have things that are known by the writer of of this gospel that are, that would put it in that 100 to 120 year range historically.

12:14.64
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

12:35.61
Nathan Pile
So um

12:40.18
Nathan Pile
kind of a thing. And so we have we have this author that has some of that

12:47.38
Nathan Pile
futuristic knowledge that Mark, Luke, Matthew don't have. And they're, you know, Mark's writing the earliest of them, somewhere around 60. um And Matthew and Luke are like 70 to 90.

13:05.72
Nathan Pile
um Kind of is when it's again, because of they they have a sense Mark doesn't understand Mark doesn't know about the fall of Jerusalem, and that doesn't happen until 70.

13:15.78
Kevin Shock
Mm. Mm-hmm.

13:17.27
Nathan Pile
Matthew and Luke do. so like So we're able to put some of those big historical things then into context. um And so the same thing happens for John, right? So we know John is somewhere between 100, 120. could even high as 130. Anyway, that's a bunch of historical information.

13:34.46
Nathan Pile
anyway that's all bunch of historical um critical method stuff to kind of help us understand the, the, the writing of this, but because it is older, because John is a better writer, John does things that the other three don't do. And in one of those places is this blurring, as you call it, the fourth wall of,

13:55.82
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

13:56.56
Nathan Pile
we're just I'm trying to tea- I'm trying to get you as much information about this. and then So Jesus does things like say Jesus' name, which would be very weird. but ah the But the gospel writer wants to make sure that we understand what Jesus's point in teaching is here, especially in this teaching discourse section.

14:20.34
Nathan Pile
of As you've already said, in all of these chapters that kind of make up Jesus's last, I'm trying to teach you everything that you need to know before I'm gone section.
14:28.76
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

14:30.84
Nathan Pile
And so so we get that piece. um And so my my and so like i appreciate all of those pieces that you've kind of shared here with your reflection.

14:44.18
Nathan Pile
Mine lands in this area and it's this idea of defining what eternal life is um by John. And John is saying that eternal life is knowing God.

14:56.22
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

14:56.28
Nathan Pile
um And that doesn't mean that there's not the other aspects or the other understanding ah of what we think of as eternal life, which is life forever with God. Um,

15:10.84
Nathan Pile
for john's author he want the he's making sure that the community that he's writing to understands um that that that knowing God gives the gift of eternal life knowing god is is what eternal life is all about um again and so this is John the author or the author of john

15:29.69
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

15:38.55
Nathan Pile
is a little bit more explicit of defining eternal life than either of the three that has come before. they don't They don't take it to this level. They don't take it to this is what eternal life is.

15:56.02
Nathan Pile
It's knowing God. um There might be allusion to that. There might be... But again, to me, this goes back to the author's desire, which is...

16:07.96
Nathan Pile
I want the community that I'm writing to to understand, to to have knowledge of God and what all of that means theologically.

16:15.80
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

16:16.42
Nathan Pile
And so this you know is a part of this passage that that's included. That that piece of um of knowledge is shared of defining what eternal life is.

16:31.37
Nathan Pile
God gives us the gift of eternal life. um And eternal life is this.

16:39.26
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

16:40.38
Nathan Pile
gave him You gave, essentially, you gave the Son, you gave Jesus the authority so that to give everyone eternal life.

16:47.67
Kevin Shock
Thank

16:49.30
Nathan Pile
And he gave it. And this is what eternal life is. Knowing you and knowing that Jesus the Christ was sent by you. So, again, as i as as as I read that, that was the thing that kind of popped out to me of...

17:09.53
Nathan Pile
of Again, wanting to make sure we pass on the understanding of

17:19.00
Nathan Pile
of of of who who God is, who who John wants us to know about who God is.

17:28.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

17:30.49
Kevin Shock
Well, thanks. That's helpful. Yeah. Let's look at it a second time and maybe we'll get a better crack at what eternal life means.

17:45.18
Kevin Shock
that Never mind. I, I shouldn't have said that.

17:49.33
Nathan Pile
We'll learn more about God.

17:50.42
Kevin Shock
we'll learn we'll learn no We'll learn more about the text, and maybe it will illuminate for us what eternal life means, but it's pretty clear, I guess, what eternal life means according to this text, at least.

18:02.20
Nathan Pile
yeah.

18:02.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it does take some unpacking, though What does it mean to know God?

18:02.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah,

18:05.76
Kevin Shock
Maybe that's what we'll unpack. Anyway, it from John 17.

18:07.93
Nathan Pile
there we go. There we go.

18:11.13
Kevin Shock
When Jesus finished saying these things, he looked up to heaven and said, Father, the time has come. Glorify your son so that the son can glorify you. You gave him authority over every everyone so that he could give eternal life to everyone you gave him.

18:25.33
Kevin Shock
This is eternal life, to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent. I have glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. Now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I shared with you before the world was created.

18:42.33
Kevin Shock
I have revealed your name to the people you gave me from this world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

18:53.78
Kevin Shock
This is because I gave them the words that you gave me, and they received them. They truly understood that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I'm praying for them. I'm not praying for the world, but for those you gave me, because they are yours.

19:08.02
Kevin Shock
Everything that is mine is yours, and everything that is yours is mine. I have been glorified in them. I'm no longer in the world, but they are in the world, even as I'm coming to you." Holy Father, watch over them in your name, the name you gave me, that they will be one just as we are one.

19:28.21
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

19:31.54
Nathan Pile
I'm all over the field, man.

19:33.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:33.75
Nathan Pile
um Because I was like, oh, maybe I feel that I'm called toward this. And then so each of the paragraphs, I have three things. I have three things around each of the each of the three different paragraphs in this reading.

19:45.91
Kevin Shock
Wow, okay.

19:46.84
Nathan Pile
Um, uh, and so, ah the,

19:56.02
Nathan Pile
the, there's a piece of unity feel, feel toward called toward unity.

19:59.62
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

20:01.87
Nathan Pile
Um, in this, I feel, called for, called know about the relationship between, um, God and Jesus.

20:15.71
Nathan Pile
Um,

20:20.95
Nathan Pile
and then, and, and, and, And what that means, so there would be a unity of that as well, that there's a unity of of God and and and Son um in that. that unity

20:38.84
Nathan Pile
but also that the that unity is um

20:46.68
Nathan Pile
that god and God and Jesus have a unique relationship and being aware of what that unique relationship is. And the and, and, and that relationship, I think, for me also extends up into that first piece, the first paragraph then. And that that that communication, the example of Jesus in communicating with God and what that could also mean for us in that in that relationship. So so ah a piece of unity, of a piece of understanding the relationship between Jesus and and God, and then a piece of when when we live into right relationship with God, if we're looking at the Jesus-God relationship, there's a part of that communication that happens here in prayer, um but that is happening

21:42.46
Nathan Pile
And, and that, that I also feel called to then be in communication with God. um So none of them felt like they were the dominant piece of this. It just kept, as I came out of that first one, I was like, oh, okay, i'm but you know i'm feeling called towards communication with God. Second one was understanding the relationship of and connection between God and, and God, the creator, and, and God, the son. And, and then the third one being that there's a unity of them.

22:12.76
Nathan Pile
Um, and that, that I too am to be seeking that unity. Um,

22:21.73
Nathan Pile
so, so that's my, that's my three cents instead of just one cent.

22:28.70
Kevin Shock
Okay.

22:30.95
Nathan Pile
My, um, I had three cents this time through, um,

22:31.11
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

22:33.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

22:37.72
Nathan Pile
What about you?

22:38.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

22:38.85
Nathan Pile
What toward what is God calling you in this passage?

22:39.22
Kevin Shock
um

22:42.68
Kevin Shock
ah I also don't know because this is yeah this is a like this is a dense passage. and I i don't know

22:50.71
Nathan Pile
I didn't, I didn't do any of the description, but I fool hard wholeheartedly agree with you that this is a dense passage.

22:51.23
Kevin Shock
dense

22:55.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, this is, um, um I'm going to have pay attention to like what I'm preaching on this, the week that this shows up in the text.

22:56.90
Nathan Pile
There's a lot in here.

23:03.62
Kevin Shock
um

23:04.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:06.17
Kevin Shock
the

23:10.10
Kevin Shock
I'm taken in by the whole, like, like they, they, meaning us, the disciples, and the people to whom God, who belong to God, they, they're still in the world.

23:24.85
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

23:25.30
Kevin Shock
So there's there's something in that for me that feels like, I don't think I'm reading too much into it, that that the work of glorifying God is being put in the disciples' hands.

23:46.94
Kevin Shock
Ergo, our hands.

23:47.19
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

23:49.72
Kevin Shock
Um, and, and not that, ah not by any means that we become Jesus because we had to have, um, we had to have Jesus glorify God so that we would even know who God was. We, we were the ones who had to be the, on the receiving end of that glorifying and, and making known and illuminating,

24:18.55
Kevin Shock
um But there is a sense here for me because of the, because yeah, as it's laid out in this prayer, Jesus did this work that God called, sent him to do.

24:33.21
Kevin Shock
He's praying for the protection of the ones that God has given him so that none of them would be taken out of the father's hands. and, And then there's this, and then, but then there's this also prayer that they would they would be one as we are one.

24:53.24
Kevin Shock
um So I, I wonder about that one. I mean, we're going to talk about that in our last sentence, but our last question, but um I do kind of I think about

25:12.73
Kevin Shock
Jesus came to do this work and, and now Jesus is asking God to protect us and then Jesus is act, asking for there to be unity among us which makes me wonder is Jesus wanting us to carry on the work that he has been doing um like that that's what I intuit in this prayer but also i mean he you know

25:37.95
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

25:41.50
Kevin Shock
from chapter 13 in John's gospel, um gives them a new commandment that they love one another just, just as I have loved you, so you should love one another. Like to me, that's another unity kind of sentence. Like, like this, this is the work, just as I have done this work for you, so you also ought to do this work for one another.

26:08.18
Kevin Shock
And maybe work isn't the right word there, but, but it is Yeah, just as I have done this for you, you should you should also do it to one another. um So there, there is this notion that Jesus, that the in chapter 13, that what Jesus hands over to the disciples, like, I was doing this for you, and now now it's up to you to do it for one another, and for those who are not yet a part of the flock, but, but I have called out to. Yeah.

26:40.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So I, I don't know. I'm, I'm thinking about we're the ones who are still in this world. So we're the ones that Jesus is calling to continue this work.

27:00.04
Kevin Shock
That's where I am, at least.

27:05.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, again, I think absolutely. I think that's the, when you put these three pieces together, that's the national, natural charger trajectory of the direction this, this passage is moving in, right? we We're to be, we are to be living in the unity that God and Jesus have.

27:34.14
Kevin Shock
I don't

27:38.67
Nathan Pile
Yeah, makes good sense.

27:43.22
Nathan Pile
All right.

27:43.28
Kevin Shock
know if it makes good sense, but it's something.

27:45.48
Nathan Pile
Well, I think it makes good sense. I think it's what, you know, we would we would say that overall that's the call of discipleship.

27:49.40
Kevin Shock
ah

27:54.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:55.03
Nathan Pile
Living in the way means, but again, we're going to talk about it what it means to be one here in this third question.

27:55.45
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

28:05.56
Nathan Pile
But Living in the way means

28:11.96
Nathan Pile
coming to know God and the relationship with God um that God intends for us to have.

28:21.34
Nathan Pile
All right, well, we'll do this a third time.

28:25.38
Kevin Shock
Yep, let's do it.

28:28.25
Nathan Pile
When Jesus finished saying these things, he looked up to heaven and said, Father, the time has come. Glorify your son, so that the son can glorify you. You gave him authority over everyone so that he could give eternal life to everyone you gave him.

28:43.22
Nathan Pile
This is eternal life, to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent. I have glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.

28:56.34
Nathan Pile
Now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I shared with you before the world was created. I have revealed your name to the people you gave me, from this world.

29:08.38
Nathan Pile
they were your, They were yours and you gave them to me and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

29:20.47
Nathan Pile
This is because I gave them the words that you gave me and they received them. They truly understood that I came from you and they believed that you sent me. I'm praying for them. I'm not praying for the world, but for those you gave me, because they are yours.

29:36.73
Nathan Pile
Everything that is mine is yours, and everything that is yours is mine. I have been glorified in them. I'm no longer in the world, but they are in the world, even as I am coming to you.

29:47.61
Nathan Pile
Holy Father, watch over them in your name, the name you gave me, that they will be one just as we are one.

29:59.70
Nathan Pile
Kevin, what does being one look like?

30:07.03
Kevin Shock
I think that um I think that being one, um I don't, I don't know. I've been thinking, I've been thinking about this in our political climate too, um but now I'm thinking about it in regards to this text. I think that being one means being about the same things that Jesus was about um, in regards to this text.

30:35.22
Kevin Shock
I, I think that, ah so in that prayer, Jesus says, you know, make make them one as you, you and I are one. Or a is that the exact way that it's translated in this text? um um that they That they will be one just as we are one.

30:56.76
Kevin Shock
ah Jesus and the Father are one because they're about the same things. Because they... um Jesus is faithful because he enacts the Father's will and all that he says and does um

31:13.53
Kevin Shock
So I think about, I think about that oneness that if, if we are about What Jesus was about is about then, then we're one.

31:27.93
Kevin Shock
Again, that's not like, let, let me be clear. That's not something like we don't wake up in the morning and say, well, I'm going I'm going to be one with Jesus today. I mean, that might be your intention, but it's not, it's not entirely within our power to do that.

31:42.94
Kevin Shock
it

31:43.06
Nathan Pile
just by saying it doesn't make it true.

31:45.24
Kevin Shock
Just by saying it doesn't make it true. Yes. um So I do think that we need, we need the father to make us one with God and with Jesus, we, we need for that to happen. it doesn't It's not something we do on our own.

32:01.02
Kevin Shock
um I think from a general standpoint, um that the being one is about being being about the same stuff. that having Having the same mindset or having the same values or...

32:23.10
Kevin Shock
yeah, being, being in accord

32:29.69
Kevin Shock
with one another when it comes to how we live with one another, I guess, is what is what I think about. um Maybe that's not so important when it comes to this text. I'm just trying to think of it on some general terms as well.

32:46.47
Kevin Shock
Because like I said, I've been thinking about it in regards to like our political climate and there's, There are, there are midterm elections coming up and things like that. and

33:02.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:05.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah, what about you, Nathan? What um what does what does being one look like?

33:11.48
Nathan Pile
Well, um again, as, as you shared, I think the word that popped into my head as I was listening to you share was mission. we, We share the mission.

33:20.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:21.06
Nathan Pile
or Jesus and God share a mission or a vision um would be a way of of thinking about the unity, um you know God's way is our way, Christ's way is our way, kind of a thing as disciples. And so that, that mission

33:45.17
Nathan Pile
carries through from God to Son and from Son to disciples. is the way, again, as you were talking, that that kind of was the the thing that kind of popped into my my head that kind of matched with what, uh,

34:05.04
Nathan Pile
uh, with what you were saying. and, And I do think a strong unity develops when we, when we carry a ah shared mission together, you know, one of the things that, that, um, that you and I've talked about on this podcast, on our Lenten, um,

34:21.98
Nathan Pile
studies in the past. The idea of gathering around like-minded individuals helps us move the ball forward, right? Helps us to work together to accomplish a new task. And, and I think about here in the history of this region of what what was the Allegheny Conference, what is now the Allegheny Synod, this region of seven counties,

34:49.02
Nathan Pile
um Somewhere along the line back in the 40s, we thought it was a good idea to work together to create space for the retired in our communities to have a social ministry where they could be cared for um along one another.

35:05.26
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

35:07.30
Nathan Pile
And so it became a part of the mission of the Allegheny Synod to have the um ALSM, the social ministry of the Allegheny Synod.

35:19.67
Nathan Pile
uh somewhere in the same time frame it became important to have a place where leadership development started to happen with youth and young adults and so summer camp started um at Sequanota um around the same time the youth ministry of the synod or the of the conference became the Luther league which was the title um back in the know 50s 60s 70s um became known as LYO it never really kind of took off in the allegheny synod when it was LYO that would have been the the generation you and I are in like we did you things but we didn't call it LYO other places did um but it was a like you know we kind of kind of came together to adopt the mission and vision of what that um

35:57.70
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

36:13.66
Nathan Pile
of what we thought God was calling us to do and be in this region. And so we found a way to do it together. And so I think my definition or my answer to this question, what does being one look like? It's its my basic definition is to that we do stuff together with the clarification that it's not just what we want to do, but that it it builds off that common mission that we hear about God and Christ, um, through scripture. And so, um, that's what being one means. It means being community. It means, um, seeking to pull our resources together to, to accomplish, um, to accomplish something that, um,

37:04.82
Nathan Pile
takes precedence for us. It becomes the primary way that we want to function in the world together. And it's not it's not Nathan's vision, um but it's more it's more shared. It goes beyond just Nathan's idea of what would be the right way to go. Because I've, I've a, I've, I've wrestled with and encountered scripture and the Holy Spirit And so it makes it a better idea. I then wrestle and and and interact with other

37:37.34
Nathan Pile
contemporary disciples of this day and age, and the idea gets better. It's not just, again, Nathan's idea. And so, you know, and, and that's how all of these ministries formed back in the 40s, 1940s and after, was that groups of people came together and said, what is the right way that we do this moving forward?

37:44.50
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

37:54.97
Nathan Pile
is it, Was it perfect? No. And, and it's not going to be perfect today because it still has ah an element of humanness in it. But there's a togetherness, a connectedness of, of community, of trying to say, how do we take this mission forward? and And we don't seem to be there yet, but boy, do I hope that the Holy Spirit re-energizes us in those ways. we're We're asking a lot of questions right now, and that's part of our postmodern era, is to ask questions of our institutions and our organizations.

38:27.99
Nathan Pile
But when we ask those questions, then do we figure out how to make those, those organizations and, and institutions stronger, better? Do they need to change radically to, to make them have meaning so that we can accomplish that that vision, that that that singular vision that God passes to the Son and the Son passes to the disciples? Yeah, maybe it does.

38:51.10
Nathan Pile
Maybe our institutions or organizations need to have, to be,

39:01.82
Nathan Pile
you know, wrestled with and, and made, and don't want to say more more pure or, or, or you know maybe better um because ah as a part of us, as as a part of the church as a whole, right?

39:17.82
Nathan Pile
Our humanness falls into it. And so the,

39:24.98
Nathan Pile
it's the institutions made and created by um selfish and broken human beings is also going to be broken and selfish.

39:35.83
Nathan Pile
And so by having this time of the postmodern era allows us to kind of look at it critically and say, how do we make this better? I think if we just throw it out, which is oftentimes our temptation, think if we just throw it out, we lose some of that together connectedness to what has come before us.

39:57.98
Nathan Pile
And so the struggle is how do you do both and?

39:58.20
Kevin Shock
Sure.

40:00.42
Nathan Pile
how do you, How do you do that evaluative process that needs to occur so that we can have a yard sale and get rid of the stuff that we shouldn't be still holding onto that has become clutter as a part of who we are?

40:00.47
Kevin Shock
Well...

40:12.98
Nathan Pile
but then But then we're also taking the really great stuff that we have in our history and moving it forward. If you just start over, you, you don't have any of that history. you don't, You're not taking the richness of the together unity forward.

40:23.65
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

40:26.97
Nathan Pile
So- um So I was all over the landscape there, but that's my that would be part of the this the sense that i that this passage kind of works on me as I think about what being one is, it, it, Because there's a connectivity

40:50.33
Nathan Pile
both to God the creator, which again, Last week I talked about that infinite singularity. It goes on for a very long time in, in the in the past. And so there's pulling that infinite singularity through all of creation, all of the time of creation and the forming and, and, and then the time of, of early believers, ancient believers to the time of Christ and, and, um,

41:16.28
Nathan Pile
and Christian believers. like There's a long history there that we're trying to pull forward into the future that it is the 2000s. But I, but I, this passage gives me that, that, that, that connectivity is really important.

41:33.75
Nathan Pile
And so I don't feel like it's just we get rid of, we just cut everything that came before and start anew. it would feel easier to do that, absolutely.

41:43.90
Nathan Pile
But I don't feel like that's what this passage this passage gives me a sense of, of this is

41:43.90
Kevin Shock
Sure.

41:51.77
Nathan Pile
this is all ah a part of that longer journey. And, and because of a long connected journey, it's harder. It's going to be harder to reform the church yet again.

42:04.98
Nathan Pile
But it's also, you know, but that's this is part of God's work too. It's not on not just the, the people of today that have to do this. This is God's work and we're doing it along with God and Jesus in that process.

42:13.85
Kevin Shock
No, right, no.

42:17.27
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right.

42:19.06
Nathan Pile
So.

42:20.15
Kevin Shock
Right, if anything, I mean, you kind of talk, you use those images of like the the yard sale or the clearing out or, you know, I, um, if anything, it, it the reason for that,

42:38.27
Kevin Shock
what's the word I want to use? for for doing that assessment, being involved and involved in that assessment when it comes to the life of the church, is so that we can be more and in line with what God wants for us to be.

42:52.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Right?

42:53.46
Kevin Shock
Like there's, there's an, there's an ancient thread that goes through the Christian tradition. And, um you know, Jesus, you know, look at look at the beginning of John's gospel. In, in the beginning was the word.

43:09.00
Nathan Pile
Right.

43:09.46
Kevin Shock
and, And the Word was with God and the Word was God. and then, And then we find out in John's Gospel that the Word has become flesh and dwelt among us. Like this looks like a very new thing that God is doing, but it's a thing that has existed since the beginning.

43:25.06
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

43:26.01
Kevin Shock
And um yeah, and, and so, so whatever new thing God is doing in the church right now is part of the God who is and who was and who always shall be.

43:27.11
Nathan Pile
Oh, keep going.

43:39.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

43:41.43
Kevin Shock
and, And I think anytime the church goes through a large

43:50.91
Kevin Shock
reforming or being reformed kind of era, it's that we are rediscovering by, by will or by force ah the the power of that ancient thread that has always been present in the life of God, between God and God's people.

44:12.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

44:16.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

44:18.30
Nathan Pile
Well, and I, and again, to me, there's a beauty of that. there's a

44:23.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:26.04
Nathan Pile
But I love that idea that there's an ancient thread that is God, that is the divine, that is constantly being pulled through all of this. And, and, and, and we get that even in this passage when Jesus talks about, you know,

44:44.28
Nathan Pile
God, God doing the glorifying, right? God's In that first part of this passage, it's God's doing, the God glorifies the sun. Just like in today's age, God is the one bringing glory to God. It might be using human hands and voices and feet as a part of that process, but it's still God doing that glorifying. and, And Jesus says,

45:10.65
Nathan Pile
that glorified glorification happened at the beginning and bring me back in a part to be a part of that, that, that tradition, that way that you do about glorifying things like, so that longevity is still baked into this, into this text.

45:16.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:23.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

45:32.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um I mean, something that catches my attention in this, in this text is that Jesus says that he has, well, now I'm jumping around a little bit, so I was looking for something else.

45:51.26
Kevin Shock
He says, I have glorified you on earth, verse 4, I have glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. But at this point, in the chronology of the text, he has not yet finished the work that God gave him to do.

46:10.58
Kevin Shock
um Because he's still alive. it's his His flesh did not die.

46:15.00
Nathan Pile
right, right

46:16.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

46:19.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so it's right, right, right.

46:20.57
Nathan Pile
more fourth wall more fourth wall

46:22.96
Kevin Shock
Well, well, it's ah I was looking here. It's chapter 19, verse 30. When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said, it is completed. Bowing his head, he gave up his life.

46:36.34
Kevin Shock
That's the, I mean, again, this is CEB. So in other translations, it might be translated. It is finished.

46:42.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

46:43.42
Kevin Shock
Or are we also...

46:44.28
Nathan Pile
Has been accomplished.

46:45.91
Kevin Shock
It is accomplished. It is made perfect. I mean, that's another translation that can be a faithful translation. It is perfected.

46:52.85
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

46:54.81
Kevin Shock
ah the, The work is, yeah, the work is finished. The work is complete. I mean, that, this, this is why I'm a language nerd because you have all these nuances and these words that you use that can mean, they mean the same thing, but they mean, yeah.

47:13.02
Kevin Shock
yeah They mean, I don't know. They just bring nuance to the text. So, yeah, I've, I've finished the work that you sent me to do. um Yeah, but not quite yet.

47:30.78
Kevin Shock
I mean, there's a sense of, there's a sense of, I mean, you know, Nathan, you're, you're probably better at this than I, I think I had get a sense you were better at some of this stuff than I was in seminary, but yeah.

47:43.38
Kevin Shock
or, or you explored it more. I don't want to say that you were better or anything like that, but um that, you know, I'd, I'd be curious to know is, is ah is, is, is one of these verbs in a, in a perfect tense versus an imperfect tense.

48:00.34
Nathan Pile
and Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:00.86
Kevin Shock
um Like, you know, I have finished the work that you have given, you know, that you sent me to

48:07.54
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, one of them is a has been it had that it is we often times when we translate it is finished. It has been accomplished, meaning that it happened and continues on forever.

48:15.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah.

48:21.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Right. Right. why being perfected? it has been perfected. Yeah.

48:28.84
Nathan Pile
Right.

48:28.90
Kevin Shock
is is

48:29.02
Nathan Pile
It has been for perfected.

48:30.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

48:31.63
Nathan Pile
It's not just at one moment in time, but it is, it has, it happened in one moment in time, but then continues on forward for the, for the duration of life.

48:38.23
Kevin Shock
Right.

48:41.31
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

48:45.08
Nathan Pile
And not just my life, but all life.

48:47.38
Kevin Shock
All life. All life.

48:48.29
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

48:48.67
Kevin Shock
yeah

48:48.91
Nathan Pile
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So that, yeah, that there, that there's absolutely Greek um verb tense that, that does that.

48:56.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah

48:58.13
Nathan Pile
Yep.

48:59.00
Kevin Shock
Right. And, and, and theological theological meaning behind that. um

49:04.17
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

49:04.57
Kevin Shock
that he Yeah.

49:05.69
Nathan Pile
They could have picked any tense here, and they picked...

49:06.24
Kevin Shock
eh

49:09.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

49:09.49
Kevin Shock
Right. in, In that moment in human history, Jesus breathed his last. And in every moment in human history, Jesus breathes his last for the sake of his people.

49:23.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

49:24.84
Kevin Shock
Yeah. but Both are true.

49:25.43
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

49:28.17
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep.

49:36.31
Kevin Shock
Okay. any Anything else?

49:39.45
Nathan Pile
no

49:40.38
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right. Well, we can meet those some good discussion. I appreciate that. um As we are looking at additional texts, there are a million of them because, and here's, here's why.

49:51.83
Nathan Pile
but I wondered why this was. I knew you were going to this one.

49:54.42
Kevin Shock
Well, because, because we're really looking here at the seventh Sunday of Easter. um But just before this, just three days before this, we celebrate the Ascension.

50:06.21
Kevin Shock
And so sometimes I know in congregations, people use on the seventh Sunday of Easter, people use the texts for the Ascension, or sometimes they use the text for the seventh Sunday of Easter.

50:06.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

50:13.68
Nathan Pile
for Ascension.

50:16.80
Kevin Shock
So all of these are somewhat related because either, either in, in worship, you're either talking about when Jesus ascends to the Father or you're talking about the time when he has just ascended to the Father and now the, the disciples are waiting for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

50:34.44
Kevin Shock
So these are the texts appointed for ascension. Acts 1, 1-11, Jesus sends the apostles.

50:45.77
Kevin Shock
Psalm 47, God has gone up with a shout. Psalm 93 an alternate psalm for ascension. Ever since the world began, your throne has been established. Ephesians 1, verses 15-23, eyes to see the risen and ascended Christ. and places.

51:02.10
Kevin Shock
and Luke chapter twenty four verse forty four through fifty three christ present in all times and places And we also have the provisional readings for Ascension, which are Daniel chapter seven verses nine through fourteen The Coming One Reigns Over All, and Psalm 24 7-10, Lift up your heads, O gates, that the King of Glory may come in.

51:25.30
Kevin Shock
a Other texts for seventh Sunday of Easter, Acts 1: 6-14, which is...

51:32.38
Kevin Shock
which is kind of overlaps with the other the Ascension reading. Jesus' companions at prayer after his departure. Psalm 68, verses 1 through 10 and 32 through 35. Sing to God who rides upon the clouds.

51:47.50
Kevin Shock
1 Peter chapter 4, verses 12 through 14 and chapter 5, verses 6 through 11. God will sustain and restore those who suffer. And then the provisional texts for seventh Sunday of Easter. Isaiah 45, verses 1 through 7. From East to West, there is no other God.

52:05.02
Kevin Shock
And Psalm 21, verses 1 through 7, Be exalted, O Lord. We will sing and praise your power. Nathan, thanks for your reflections on this, as I said, dense text, one that begs a lot of reflection. And as always, friends, we want to hear your reflections too.

52:23.58
Kevin Shock
We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

52:27.35
Nathan Pile
And peace.