S4 Episode 31: Matthew 28:16-20

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How does Jesus deal with your doubt?

Additional texts:

Genesis 1:1—2:4a

Psalm 8

2 Corinthians

Transcript

00:03.57
Kevin Shock
Nathan, I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.

00:09.98
Nathan Pile
Everybody, you can't see this, but Kevin just had his hands above his head. Like when I hit record, it was like in a prayer pose and I wasn't sure what was happening.

00:20.50
Nathan Pile
And then three seconds ti- ticked off the clock and he launched into what he launched into there.

00:28.62
Nathan Pile
So he can believe he believes he can fly everyone.

00:31.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I don't, you know, last week, Eldad and Medad, the spirit went rogue on them, and I, I think the spirit just went rogue on me.

00:33.02
Nathan Pile
You touch the sky.

00:39.03
Kevin Shock
I was hit by a moment of inspiration. Nathan said right before we started, Something about, I believe, I, I don't, I can't even remember how it went down.

00:51.91
Kevin Shock
Anyway, that's all. Um, we're so happy that you are back with us at Tend, even if we have no idea what's going on.

00:54.10
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

01:01.11
Kevin Shock
Um,

01:04.57
Kevin Shock
This week, though, hope you had a great Pentecost Sunday celebration. And maybe you, too, believed you could fly and believed you could touch the sky um with the Spirit descending down on us yesterday.

01:19.54
Kevin Shock
um But we are ah we're looking at a different reading today from Matthew 28, verses 16 through 20. verses sixteen through twenty We're looking at it using the Common English Bible Translation.

01:34.17
Kevin Shock
And there are three questions that we are going to ask each other. um What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

01:47.13
Kevin Shock
And how does Jesus deal with your doubt?

01:54.81
Kevin Shock
Maybe that's a question for Jesus, not a question for us.

01:58.07
Nathan Pile
I can guess, but there's a Jesus problem that I think Jesus has taken care of.

02:02.44
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

02:03.98
Nathan Pile
But anyway, um information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age. college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

02:26.90
Nathan Pile
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you think, what you hear and think from your life experience.

02:44.86
Nathan Pile
Matthew 28.

02:49.24
Nathan Pile
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus told them to go. When they saw him, they worshipped him, but some doubted. Jesus came near and spoke to them, I've received all authority in heaven and on earth.

03:06.40
Nathan Pile
Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you.

03:17.98
Nathan Pile
Look, I myself will be with you every day until the end of this present age.

03:27.96
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or if you're just listening along, um Bishop is going to answer the first question. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

03:46.79
Kevin Shock
I've received all authority in heaven and on earth.

03:55.32
Nathan Pile
Why does that strike you, Kevin?

03:57.08
Kevin Shock
Thank you for asking Nathan. ah

04:01.72
Kevin Shock
it, uh,

04:01.96
Nathan Pile
He's still flying, everybody. He's still flying and touching the sky.

04:04.47
Kevin Shock
um I'm touching the sky. No. I have no idea what's going on this morning. Um, uh, ah No, that, that is the, that's the, the phrase that caught my attention whenever you were reading it.

04:20.60
Kevin Shock
Um, but I think what, I think what, I think what gets my attention even more is what Jesus says right after it. Uh, I don't want to question Jesus, but, um,

04:33.45
Kevin Shock
I've received all authority in heaven and on earth. Like that's huge. You know, I mean, like we can't even fathom what that is. And so then his, his next thing is to tell his disciples ah to go and make other disciples of all nations. Like I've been given all authority in heaven and on earth.

04:52.30
Kevin Shock
Therefore, I'm going to put I'm going to put you to work. Which, like, I understand that, but also, is not there a more fail-safe way of dealing with this Jesus than putting it in the hands of human beings?

05:07.54
Nathan Pile
ah um I am, he is trusting you

05:09.82
Kevin Shock
um Yeah. That's, yeah, it's...

05:17.50
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

05:17.75
Nathan Pile
to do this

05:20.54
Kevin Shock
And and um, I guess much like the spirit last week, you know, that the authority that Jesus has been given, the, the authority that he has received, ah he's he's able to divvy it out amongst the people too.

05:37.50
Kevin Shock
um And so that they can go and do this work. But also, it just, I don't know, it strikes me like that's, to me, that's a

05:49.98
Kevin Shock
To make that assertion, I've received all authority. And then let your therefore be... Well, maybe that is it. Maybe the therefore is, therefore, listen to me when I tell you to go and make disciples.

06:05.02
Kevin Shock
um

06:08.09
Kevin Shock
But also, he's also talking he's already talking to people who trust him and know him and recognize his authority. Yeah.

06:22.94
Kevin Shock
So, yeah, I'm, I'm just, I'm interested in the thought process behind what Jesus is doing here. That's that's what I'm interested in

06:34.68
Nathan Pile
specifically why Jesus would pick humans to accomplish this

06:40.28
Kevin Shock
Well, right. I mean, these 11 disciples who we've already seen have proven to be not always trustworthy or, or at, at the very least, and I mean, maybe that's overstating it.

06:52.98
Kevin Shock
the very least, they missed the mark quite a bit.

06:55.62
Nathan Pile
hmm

06:57.02
Kevin Shock
um and ah And we also hear that some of them are doubting in this passage. ah But he uses his authority to command this imperfect group of people to go and do the work that he has come to accomplish.

07:18.46
Kevin Shock
I mean, he's like he's accomplished it in his death and in his resurrection, but now the continuance of that work he's putting in the hands of these imperfect people.

07:29.82
Kevin Shock
And that's that's a real, well, the more we talk about this, the more this makes sense to me. that That's a very interesting thing to do with your authority. to hand it over. But that's also, that's also what Jesus has done with his authority all throughout the gospel.

07:39.99
Nathan Pile
to hand it over.

07:48.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

07:54.81
Kevin Shock
So to just extend that thought a little bit, I think sometimes there have been times in the past when the church has read this from a missionary perspective and thought it meant conquer the world in the name of Jesus.

08:17.21
Kevin Shock
And if we consider how Jesus has exercised his authority throughout the Gospel of Matthew by giving it over,

08:28.76
Kevin Shock
that's not the intent behind this reading.

08:35.48
Kevin Shock
if I think that I think that probably implicit in the call then is to go and make disciples exercising the authority that Jesus has given us in the same way that he exercises the authority that he himself has received.

08:57.05
Kevin Shock
With humility and with grace and by giving it over.

09:04.59
Kevin Shock
That's, that's different than conquering.

09:12.47
Kevin Shock
Okay. I got far afield of where I started. So what about you, Nathan? What word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

09:19.93
Nathan Pile
Well, um I was, I was thinking off of your authority piece here. the the So I'm just reflecting off of your thoughts first. the that That idea of, again, we think of authority um and we live in a world where seeking authority, power, control still seems to be the ultimate thing.

09:50.49
Nathan Pile
goal of life um and and one of the ways we think we do that is if we have acquired wealth uh on top of you know yes we want power and control we also want wealth because sometimes we believe wealth gives us power and control so ah part of our authority in our world is about us claiming taking um seeking to acquire as much as we possibly can. That that that equals the definition of success.

10:22.58
Nathan Pile
And here, one who has all, we're told, who has all authority in heaven and on earth um

10:36.76
Nathan Pile
seeks to give it away. That we don't do that. 2,000 years after Jesus, we're still

10:48.95
Nathan Pile
working really hard to wrest power, control, and wealth from others so that we have enough for me.

11:03.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

11:04.70
Nathan Pile
um And maybe even excessively enough, at least in my lifetime. In my life, there are times in my going through everyday life that I, that I wish I had more.

11:20.12
Nathan Pile
I, I selfishly want more so that I could live differently.

11:29.34
Nathan Pile
Kind of a thing. So...

11:30.46
Kevin Shock
you know

11:31.77
Nathan Pile
so um

11:36.06
Nathan Pile
So that, like, that just looms with me from what you were saying. just you know like That's a part of all of this. And so here's one who has all authority and says, I'm giving it away to you to go and make disciples and baptize.

11:53.05
Nathan Pile
so, um, For me, it was, um, the 11 disciples went home.

12:04.38
Nathan Pile
went back to Galilee.

12:08.47
Nathan Pile
And

12:08.57
Kevin Shock
Oh, didn't he tell them to go there?

12:12.22
Nathan Pile
yeah, yeah, he did.

12:12.89
Kevin Shock
Okay. Okay.

12:13.96
Nathan Pile
Earlier in the chapter, he tells him to go there. But in my mind, you think, oh, we're going home.

12:24.09
Nathan Pile
You know, and like, oh, Jesus going to meet us at home.

12:24.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

12:29.07
Nathan Pile
Okay, we're going to go home and we're going to go where we're comfortable. We're going to be known again. and um And we're going to go see Jesus there. And that's fantastic.

12:42.78
Nathan Pile
um And in some ways, I can't imagine that they thought that, you know, that we're going to go home and that's kind of the end of this journey.

12:56.09
Nathan Pile
And then the end of the chapter happens, which says,

13:02.94
Nathan Pile
go all over the place.

13:05.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah

13:06.01
Nathan Pile
leave the Leave the place that's comfortable and and safe and you're known and go all over the place.

13:15.29
Nathan Pile
So that's just what kind of sticks out to me here was that, that again, I did, I opened up to see a couple of verses before this, what was happening, because I was curious, like, did they...

13:17.22
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

13:29.46
Nathan Pile
I knew that Jesus had told them to, had told some of them to tell everybody else, I'm going to Galilee. I'll see you there. Um,

13:41.14
Nathan Pile
and then, and then in between we have the guards report here, um, which could have just have been, you know, the, the, the idea of, could they just have stolen his body while people were sleeping?

13:53.62
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

13:53.98
Nathan Pile
Um,

13:57.27
Nathan Pile
and, And so they take the money and they tell the story that they're told to tell.

14:09.37
Nathan Pile
And so there's, there's that story that then spreads across Judea. And so this idea of, oh, we're just going to leave all this behind and we're just going to go back to Galilee and, and be home.

14:21.24
Nathan Pile
And upon returning home, essentially we're told, they're told, the You're going to go back out into the world and, and make disciples.

14:34.67
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

14:35.29
Nathan Pile
so And teaching them about

14:40.44
Nathan Pile
teaching them about what you know.

14:45.05
Nathan Pile
So I don't know. I don't know why the Galilee piece stuck into me other than to know, you know, that as I, as, as I was reading through it, I was like, oh, Galilee, they're going home. And so there's that idea of after a very tumultuous couple of weeks, the idea of we're going to get to get back to something that we know that that's, and again, in my mind would seem safe, would seem,

15:14.26
Nathan Pile
um

15:17.72
Nathan Pile
you're you know, that you're not, you're not in a, you

15:24.26
Nathan Pile
I don't want to say strange space, but because, you know, likelihood that they would have had spent some time in Jerusalem um over the years. And so it's not a foreign space, but it's not home. It's not where family and friends and, and home is.

15:47.28
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

15:47.42
Nathan Pile
So there's there's an idea of, you know, there's, There's chief priests who are working against them and elders and and guards and soldiers who are working against them who are sowing stories of lies in the world.

16:03.51
Nathan Pile
and And they're like, going to go home. We're going to go home and we're going to see Jesus and it's

16:11.76
Nathan Pile
going to be okay. and And it's going to be okay, but they're you're not staying at home.

16:18.62
Nathan Pile
So that's just kind of an interesting...

16:18.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

16:22.71
Nathan Pile
piece here at the end of Matthew that again, I don't know if I would have picked it up if I wouldn't have just read it here today, but that idea of they were headed home and so there would have been some expectations maybe of what that was going to mean for them and to have those expectations shifted because they've been given all of the authority.

16:49.18
Nathan Pile
Jesus handing on what was handed to Jesus. So

16:57.75
Nathan Pile
yeah, I think that's where.

17:02.10
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and well, your reflection makes me wonder too, like, why, why did we have to go back to Galilee? But maybe that was to, I mean, maybe it was a part of the preparation.

17:12.69
Nathan Pile
Sure.

17:13.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Well, like you said, you wouldn't have thought of it had we not been reading it right now. I don't know that I would have thought of it either.

17:21.90
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

17:26.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

17:26.39
Nathan Pile
just, I just wondered when we read it, like, definitely, again, you know, so, and looking back, it would have made some sense that they would have felt like they were, like maybe this phase of life was done.

17:40.12
Nathan Pile
And in some ways, it was. Jesus walking among them was, was done. But they're, they're, them being disciples was just beginning.

17:57.56
Nathan Pile
So,

18:00.24
Kevin Shock
Alright, well, you want to look at it a second time?

18:03.22
Nathan Pile
do I say we do it?

18:06.01
Kevin Shock
From Matthew 28. Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to a mountain where Jesus told them to go. When they saw him, they worshipped him, but some doubted.

18:18.68
Kevin Shock
Jesus came near and spoke to them, i have received all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you.

18:36.22
Kevin Shock
Look, I myself will be with you every day until the end of this present age. Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

18:46.90
Nathan Pile
um

18:52.79
Nathan Pile
Well, there's a yeah there's like three things here. So I'll just pick one.

19:02.04
Nathan Pile
There is that I don't know if I heard it when I read it, but I'll be honest, like it doesn't stick with me all of the other times that I've read this passage.

19:15.45
Nathan Pile
um And so I heard it when I read it and I heard it when you read it.

19:16.18
Kevin Shock
interesting

19:20.25
Nathan Pile
um Look, I myself will be with you every day.

19:25.53
Nathan Pile
and When I think about this passage, I always think about the stuff that's before it, that we hear and and that what I would typically say becomes the proclamation of this passage.

19:37.14
Nathan Pile
um But again, because it doesn't stick in my head that that it's been there before,

19:46.61
Nathan Pile
Like that this, this sentence has always been a part of chapter or verse 20. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that for whatever reason in my head, this verse didn't stick out until today.

19:59.45
Nathan Pile
um And so there is a piece of look for me every day.

20:07.46
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

20:09.24
Nathan Pile
Be watching for me every day. Um, And because we're in this Easter season celebrating Jesus's um ah frequent visits after the resurrection to his disciples,

20:27.61
Nathan Pile
um there's that idea that sticks out for me right now in, in this time of year of, boy, Jesus is here every day. Not just not just these days after the resurrection, but Jesus is, is with us every day.

20:45.11
Nathan Pile
And so what does it mean to look for that? And, you know, that goes back to, you know, one of the things, one of the traditions we do at Sequanota and we've done this for, I don't know if we did it when you were here, Kevin, or if we did it like the year or so after you were here, but we do highs and lows and where did we see God at work in the world?

21:05.02
Nathan Pile
Are the three questions we ask kids at the end of the day back in their cabins. And so, again, I don't know when we exactly started in that tradition, but it was sometime in the ninety's And I work here, and it wasn't the first two years, 92 and 93.

21:19.73
Nathan Pile
So it was sometime after 94 and before I was done in 97. Right.

21:27.64
Kevin Shock
I can't remember if we did that or not. I was there in 95 with you.

21:32.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah, but anyway, that...

21:34.79
Nathan Pile
So it would just depend on was it was it Lee Lindeman that brought it or, well, I would imagine it was Lee who brought it, but the question would be,

21:39.70
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

21:47.42
Nathan Pile
You know, what when did we when did we start to do that? And so, either way, it's been a tradition for a long time at Sequanota.

21:56.61
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

21:57.94
Nathan Pile
um Well over 30 years would be my guess, which is...

22:06.71
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

22:10.58
Nathan Pile
a startling that I've been alive that long. And yeah,

22:13.91
Kevin Shock
Yes, yes, that's very. so I'm startled at how old you are too.

22:18.81
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah yeah, I'm 30.

22:23.80
Nathan Pile
But that that we've like that that's been a part of camp's tradition for at least those 30 years, specifically that question. And so so here, this idea of look, I myself will be with you every day. And so i need to look. I need to...

22:40.41
Nathan Pile
be looking for Christ in the world.

22:46.81
Nathan Pile
And how do I, how do I keep after that? How do I keep doing it? um

22:54.01
Nathan Pile
And for whatever reason, this is a part of this command that I seem to have lost, even though we have done it by tradition here at camp. I had lost Jesus saying it along with these other parts of this command of, of, of going and making disciples and baptizing and teaching, but looking.

23:21.34
Nathan Pile
So I'm glad in many ways, as I'm preparing for this summer, I'm glad to be re-reminded this as I teach a new generation of camp staff, why we do what we do.

23:38.65
Nathan Pile
This would be a reason for that. So, yeah. So looking. I feel called toward looking.

23:46.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

23:47.38
Nathan Pile
Looking for Christ every day.

23:53.08
Nathan Pile
What about you, my friend?

23:56.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Actually, my response is very similar to yours. And I wonder, you said that you didn't really pay attention to this part of the text, usually paid attention to the stuff before. I wonder if it has something to do with this is a different translation.

24:12.02
Kevin Shock
um

24:12.40
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Maybe.

24:13.17
Kevin Shock
were We're used to hearing, and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

24:22.17
Kevin Shock
Which is very different than, look, I myself will be with you every day until the end of this present age.

24:24.70
Nathan Pile
You're.

24:27.66
Nathan Pile
Yes.

24:29.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:29.82
Nathan Pile
Read me the NRSV version again.

24:33.37
Kevin Shock
Well, I don't even know if that's the NRSV version.

24:35.70
Nathan Pile
Oh.

24:37.37
Kevin Shock
Those are the words that just come to me in my head.

24:39.67
Nathan Pile
To your mind.

24:40.21
Kevin Shock
um

24:40.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Lo.

24:41.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:41.31
Nathan Pile
Low.

24:41.35
Kevin Shock
and, and lo. But I'm gonna I am going to look up the, since I have it right here, I'm going to look up the NRSV UE to see what that says. And remember, I am with you always to the end of the age.

24:55.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So probably the

24:57.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah, so it could be the translation. could be the translation a bit.

24:59.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah, but that's, that's, that's the wording I remember from, from growing up and from learning it. and, And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

25:06.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

25:10.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

25:12.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, but yeah, so I think that that sometimes, again, you and I have talked about this before, sometimes hearing a different translation makes a difference. And again, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't call this a

25:21.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah, sparks it for us.

25:24.98
Kevin Shock
less faithful translation um because it does um yeah, I, the difference is myself, I, myself uh and um and ah changing always to every day which gives it a different sense of location for me in, in the

25:27.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah, no.

25:43.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it does. Yeah.

25:48.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

25:49.82
Nathan Pile
it does

25:50.14
Kevin Shock
um Because I think that I do think I just had a conversation with someone about this that I, I think that that, well, maybe it was you. I can't remember who I have conversations with anymore.

26:00.99
Kevin Shock
But anyway, I'm

26:02.87
Nathan Pile
maybe

26:04.95
Kevin Shock
Well, because I have so many of them. When we say, when we say geez, I was in a meeting yesterday and i said I said, someone just told me that they were available to come to this meeting if we wanted them to, and I can't remember who it was.

26:07.01
Nathan Pile
That's right. That's right.

26:19.21
Kevin Shock
And thankfully, I was sitting in a meeting with a person who had also been copied on the exact same email, or no, who had been in the exact same meeting I had been and said, oh, it was this person. And I was like, oh yeah, that's right.

26:30.26
Kevin Shock
You were there at that meeting too. Okay. people but So stupid. Anyway, um I think that, I, so I was having this conversation with someone about how, um, God, God is always with us is such a nebulous kind of sentiment.

26:51.13
Kevin Shock
Like, I don't, I don't know. but like we like I think the difference for me is we know in our heads that God is always with us, but we don't always perceive it with our hearts.

27:03.38
Kevin Shock
and um And I think that's it, is that we don't always perceive it. Like, we go through life in such a way that we dot we don't we don't act as though as though God is always with us.

27:20.76
Kevin Shock
Like, I think it takes the moments where we pause, where we consider it, to actually have it mean something to us.

27:32.47
Kevin Shock
It's not

27:32.68
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

27:34.42
Kevin Shock
Mmmm, it's not our default way of operating necessarily. And I don't want to, I'm not speaking for everybody. For some people, it might be their default way of, I'm envious of them if that's their default way of operating.

27:48.92
Nathan Pile
Sure.

27:49.08
Kevin Shock
But usually when I'm, know, like in the mundane things of life, when I open my email inbox, I'm not thinking, oh yes, God is with me in this. or Or, you know, when I'm like making dinner, I'm oh yes, God is with me in this.

27:59.81
Nathan Pile
All right.

28:06.38
Kevin Shock
Or walking the dogs. and Yes, God is here with me in this. I don't, I don't necessarily think that way. um Sometimes in crisis, maybe.

28:20.11
Kevin Shock
I'm trying to work up the courage to do something. I might stop and consider that. But this is, I, I guess, so this is calling me, to answer the question, this is calling me to the same thing as calling you to you. And, and that is to be mindful of the everyday presence of Christ who promises

28:51.35
Kevin Shock
Himself to be with us

28:54.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

28:55.00
Kevin Shock
um

28:59.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's, that's my answer to the question because I, again, I do, Like, I know, I know that God is with us, but it's easy. I think it's easy even looking at this text Go and make disciples like the disciples who are becoming apostles here they have to have a plan to do that.

29:23.03
Kevin Shock
And I imagine it's easy for them to get wrapped up in the to-do list or the work itself that they don't spend every waking moment recognizing that Christ is with them in the work that they're doing.

29:38.68
Kevin Shock
And I think that's the same for me too. I mean, there are some days,

29:44.57
Kevin Shock
some days in this office where, You know, I mean, it's, it's really easy for me in this office to just jump into work in the morning and not pause again until the end of the day.

29:59.42
Kevin Shock
Like, ah one thing that is not good, that but that I've noticed, is that a lot of days I don't even eat lunch. Like, I just, I just keep going.

30:07.70
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah.

30:08.22
Kevin Shock
I just keep going.

30:08.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

30:10.20
Kevin Shock
And... um who And it would be better for me to pause. It's not that I don't get a sense that like the work, I, I, I have a sense in the work that I'm doing, that i'm work that I'm doing ministry, that I'm working in the service of the church.

30:26.58
Kevin Shock
But on those days where it just feels like it's one thing right after the other, I don't even know that I really pause to pray in in that time period unless I'm with someone who wants me to pray with them.

30:39.89
Nathan Pile
Right.

30:42.04
Kevin Shock
And I, you know, that's, that's probably not the healthiest way to go through, every day or to do ministry. Certainly not to do ministry.

30:53.05
Kevin Shock
Um,

30:55.67
Kevin Shock
But again, that's like on ah that's like on a regular day when I'm not facing a crisis, when I'm not like, when I don't have to work up the courage to do something when, you know, when when someone else isn't right before me who's going through a trial or has a need.

31:11.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

31:15.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah, then it makes, that like, in our brain says, we need to call on the God to be with us. Like, that piece is there, right?

31:27.10
Nathan Pile
But as you, you know, the day-to-day

31:33.29
Nathan Pile
parts of life, that to have that reminder that God is is still present.

31:42.61
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

31:43.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, being able to recognize that God is with with with with me each day, with you each day, with those who are listening each day,

31:56.47
Nathan Pile
um

31:59.13
Nathan Pile
whether or not we've chosen to engage or or recognize God's presence, God's there.

32:13.37
Nathan Pile
Because normal days, you're right, I can, I could zip through the day and not,

32:25.56
Nathan Pile
not be looking. And yet Christ is there.

32:31.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, well, right.

32:32.06
Nathan Pile
But absolutely, if there's bad stuff going on, I'm seeking to reach out and to engage the living Christ on those days.

32:48.82
Nathan Pile
beyond my, beyond my normal devotion. but you know

32:54.66
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

32:55.45
Nathan Pile
Because even that, at times, I think could feel a little separate, right? That that I could say, going to pause and engage God today, and then I just move on with my day.

33:07.59
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

33:09.04
Nathan Pile
So I center myself maybe at the beginning of the day, but then

33:15.13
Nathan Pile
that center could be, I don't want to say forgotten, but the the hustle of the day might cause me to overlook it.

33:25.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:25.74
Nathan Pile
God's presence for the rest of the day.

33:27.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:30.14
Nathan Pile
So, yeah, no, I appreciate that.

33:37.53
Nathan Pile
All right, we'll do it a third time.

33:39.51
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

33:43.92
Nathan Pile
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus told them to go. When they saw him, they worshipped him, but some doubted. Jesus came near and spoke to them, I have received all authority in heaven and on earth.

33:59.54
Nathan Pile
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. Look, I myself will be with you every day until the end of this present age.

34:19.17
Nathan Pile
Kevin, how does Jesus deal with your doubt?

34:24.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I, I, I mean, you made a comment right at the beginning about how that this is, Jesus is already taking care of our doubt. Um, but I think, I think what I was thinking about was the, what we just talked about a little bit, and that is the, the doubt in everyday life.

34:33.90
Nathan Pile
know.

34:40.80
Kevin Shock
Like, how am I going to accomplish this? Or how am I going to continue in this ministry? um that maybe,

34:50.61
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

34:51.90
Kevin Shock
ah I mean, obviously I'm latching onto the like, I'm latching on to the word there in verse 17, but some doubted. um

35:05.88
Kevin Shock
And maybe it is connected with the

35:10.52
Kevin Shock
our inability to perceive him in the everyday things. i I'm curious. One of the things I'm curious about this text is here it is.

35:23.35
Kevin Shock
The disciples go to Galilee because they've received a message from Jesus. Jesus didn't speak to them personally, did he? I'm i'm looking here at the...

35:37.05
Nathan Pile
It's up in verse 10. He was speaking to somebody. Jesus was speaking to somebody when I looked.

35:41.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah, okay okay, that's what I thought. that that um

35:44.15
Nathan Pile
But not all, but not all.

35:44.86
Kevin Shock
no No, the women. the The women are...

35:47.57
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

35:48.65
Kevin Shock
the they They're the ones who go to the tomb and Jesus greets them. and tells them go and tell my brothers i'm going into Galilee they will see me there so the women ah

36:07.32
Kevin Shock
the women appealed to the disciples to go to the 11 to go back to Galilee and they do um So obviously for me, if the, if the 11 all go back to Galilee, they must trust something. I mean, they're trusting the women's report that they've seen him. They haven't yet seen him.

36:30.39
Kevin Shock
So maybe that's where the doubt comes from is that this is the, for Matthew's gospel, this is the first time that the 11 see him at post resurrection. um But they, but they also had enough trust to actually go to Galilee.

36:44.86
Kevin Shock
Like,

36:45.33
Nathan Pile
Right. It's not a small journey, right? Like it's

36:47.98
Kevin Shock
not a small journey, although maybe, you know, I don't know, maybe there's also like that, that's where they're from. So why wouldn't they return home? Yeah. yeah, I just, I don't know where the, I don't know where the doubt's coming from. I guess maybe, maybe it is rooted in the, that this is the, that this is the first time they see them, that they see him post-resurrection.

37:09.43
Kevin Shock
um

37:13.94
Kevin Shock
But I'm still taken by the notion that They listened to this message, to did what they were told because of a promise that existed there.

37:25.05
Kevin Shock
And now the promise is being fulfilled and they're still doubting. I, I guess I don't know why, but also,

37:32.17
Nathan Pile
Sure.

37:34.94
Kevin Shock
um I could turn the, I could turn it around on myself and ask the question, why is it whenever I'm met with a problem or an issue, especially one that's related to my ministry, um do I doubt and worry?

37:52.87
Kevin Shock
Hasn't it been shown to 100,000 times in life that Jesus is ah hundred thousand times in my life that Jesus, Jesus has this has me in this situation. And Jesus has shown me that I don't really have anything to worry about.

38:11.93
Kevin Shock
still worry about it. um Especially if it's something that is like, you know, feels like it's beyond my control or or maybe the, or maybe even worse that it's within my control and I'm not dealing with it well. Um, but, uh, but also, yeah,

38:41.62
Kevin Shock
I know, I know that like God, yeah, God works with me in the situations that I'm in. I guess that's how I want to say it. I was trying to think of the best way to say it. And, uh,

38:54.39
Kevin Shock
And that's something that has been shown to me over and over and over again in life. So why do I ever doubt? Why do I ever, why do I doubt that things won't work out in a, in a good and positive and hopeful way?

39:08.95
Kevin Shock
They don't always, But, but the, but, but honestly, but ah things in general don't always work out in a good, positive, hopeful way. But those are things that I don't necessarily worry about because I recognize that they're out of my control. So, uh, you know, I, okay. This is weird to say,

39:32.92
Kevin Shock
but I honestly think there are days in my life when I worry more

39:41.08
Kevin Shock
if someone, If someone sends me an email and says, I'd like to set up a time to talk to you, that honestly makes me worry more than like the doctor calling me and saying, hey, we found something in your blood work. I'd like you to come into the office to discuss it.

40:09.69
Kevin Shock
Like, it doesn't make any sense. that I, I, I, I, I would I can honestly say that, like like, you know, if something physically happens to me, there's nothing I can do about it except talk to the doctor and come up with a treatment plan.

40:25.88
Kevin Shock
But if someone wants to talk to me in the position that I'm in and they don't tell me why, I will, like, work myself up thinking worst case scenarios for what might happen. And then, and then there are times whenever I have the conversation and it was literally nothing to worry about at all.

40:53.85
Kevin Shock
Like something so inconsequential that ah like any, any energy I put into worrying about it is, is, was completely in vain.

41:05.91
Nathan Pile
So all of us, when we communicate with Bishop, should make sure we tell him why. That way he's, he'll at least sleep the night before we meet with him.

41:11.22
Kevin Shock
ah

41:14.50
Kevin Shock
Uh, well, yeah I mean, yeah, that, that would be helpful, but it would also be helpful for me to just remember that yeah Jesus is with me in this.

41:16.85
Nathan Pile
So...

41:24.70
Kevin Shock
And like, and there's even, even if it is a difficult conversation, um'm I'm not like Jesus will be with me in that. I, yeah, I don't know. There's, there's,

41:40.18
Kevin Shock
So i I guess, how does Jesus deal with my doubt? I,

41:47.54
Kevin Shock
I think by what, what I see happening in this text is how I think Jesus deals with my doubt. By continuing to call me to do the things that I'm called to do.

41:58.94
Kevin Shock
Jesus at no point says, well, if you're just going to worry about it, then I won't bother you anymore. That's...

42:04.12
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

42:06.74
Kevin Shock
That's not it. No, no.

42:07.58
Nathan Pile
No, no, no, no.

42:08.48
Kevin Shock
Jesus, Jesus continues to say, okay I've put you in this position so that you can go and make disciples. and, And it's not just me that's doing it, but it's, yeah. it's, I'm, I'm called to a particular role in the body of the church who is called to go and make disciples.

42:28.66
Kevin Shock
and And I really think that's what we're called to do. And I think it's what I'm called to do along with others. And so it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't do me any good to worry about whether I'm being effective or, mean, I can think about it, but to worry about it, to, ah Jesus just will continue to call me to do it.

42:54.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah. What about you, Nathan? How does, how does Jesus deal with your doubt?

43:01.24
Nathan Pile
I'm, I'm with you that, um, my doubt doesn't

43:08.64
Nathan Pile
doesn't bother Jesus.

43:11.67
Kevin Shock
ah

43:13.05
Nathan Pile
as, As you said, Jesus is still coming for me.

43:13.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

43:16.57
Nathan Pile
um

43:19.45
Nathan Pile
Still calling, still going to be patient. um And... and, you know, Yes, I might have my own problems with my own doubt, but my questioning doesn't bother Jesus in the slightest.

43:40.67
Nathan Pile
And it would be lovely if I prayed for Jesus to give me the same peace that Jesus has for ah for me for myself.

43:51.03
Nathan Pile
But again, think...

43:51.60
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

43:53.24
Nathan Pile
to be but again, I think I think there's a level of, I think we do this to ourselves, right? The doubt piece is, is bound up in us. The worry piece is bound up in us.

44:07.64
Nathan Pile
um If you were to call me and say, Nathan, I need you to go do this thing, I would might fret that I couldn't do this very well. But the reason you've called me is because you feel like I can do it.

44:22.81
Nathan Pile
Like you've you've, you know, it, it's, it, it would be, you're not seeking to as a friend and as as as my bishop, you're not trying to say, boy, I'll give this, this is going to screw Nathan.

44:23.13
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

44:39.99
Nathan Pile
Like you also want me to be successful and in the process of this.

44:42.10
Kevin Shock
Right, right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

44:46.05
Nathan Pile
And so it's other people, like other people are also successful. like okay with it's the, the doubt and the questioning is bound up and in us. um And so, and and you would even, if you were calling to ask me to do something, the first thing you would do is you would like butter me up a little bit. You'd be like, Nathan, you're so good at this.

45:11.53
Nathan Pile
I'm wondering if you could do this for me. Like, you know, and you'd say some positive things to kind of help build my confidence. If you thought I might say, well, I don't know if I could really do this, right?

45:22.06
Nathan Pile
Like we, we would do that to each other. Well, at least I would hope we would do that to each other.

45:26.50
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

45:26.86
Nathan Pile
um and, And so I think that that piece of um Jesus knows that doubt is a part of ah our human nature.

45:41.82
Nathan Pile
God came down to be Jesus, to to to live a human life, to be able to recognize

45:51.38
Nathan Pile
what it means to be human. and And doubt and questioning is a part of that.

45:59.71
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Yep.

46:01.40
Nathan Pile
So...

46:02.26
Kevin Shock
ye

46:06.52
Nathan Pile
so yeah but I don't... My, my answer is very similar to yours and so that's I don't need to go much further than than that right there because god trusts us god trusts you know again it doesn't make any sense, I agree with you that it doesn't make any sense as you started at the beginning of this with our first part of the reflection doesn't make any sense that Jesus is picking the the flawed selfish human beings to go out and do this task and yet that's who god trusts to do this task and has from the beginning you know the the idea of last week's me dad and l dad is the same i you know it's kind of a similar idea of

46:40.43
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

46:58.04
Nathan Pile
The spirit leads us to, to prophesy. The spirit leads us to to, to lead. and here God is, you know, thousands of years later from the time of Moses. God is yet doing it again to another generation. And God continues to do it thousands of years later in our time.

47:24.12
Nathan Pile
To be, to go, to go and make. to go and teach

47:27.74
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

47:27.86
Nathan Pile
to go and look.

47:29.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

47:30.20
Nathan Pile
Every day.

47:34.54
Nathan Pile
So.

47:36.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

47:37.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

47:38.71
Kevin Shock
Every day. I myself will be with you every day. yeah, I don't know. I'm still thinking about how that those little subtle changes in translation can make a huge, huge difference.

47:53.50
Nathan Pile
Because has changed this a little bit for me, this translation for me today, which was nice.

47:54.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

47:57.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

48:01.72
Kevin Shock
All right. Any other, any other thoughts?

48:10.45
Nathan Pile
I don't think so.

48:12.57
Kevin Shock
This is one of the rare weeks where we do not have any, we're out of the season of provisional texts, and we don't have any alternate texts for this day of the church, which is the Holy Trinity.

48:25.85
Kevin Shock
So our additional texts for this week, a familiar one, although as Nathan and I discovered today, sometimes looking at a familiar one with a different translation opens a whole new set of conversation.

48:38.42
Nathan Pile
Yeah

48:38.62
Kevin Shock
ah Genesis chapter 1 verse 1 through chapter 2 verses 4a is the creation of the heavens and the earth. Psalm 8, how majestic is your name in all the earth.

48:53.85
Kevin Shock
And from 2 Corinthians 13 verses 11 through 13, Paul's farewell to the church at Corinth. Nathan, thanks for the way that you engaged this text today and reflected on it and how we were able to help one another reflect on it.

49:13.37
Kevin Shock
um And as always, friends, we'd love to hear your reflections and your thoughts of how how the text it engages you and interacts with you and how the Spirit works in you as you as you read and listen.

49:28.92
Kevin Shock
We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

49:33.43
Nathan Pile
And peace.