S4 Episode 32: Matthew 9:9-13, 18-26

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What role does mercy play in a life of faith?

Additional texts:

Hosea 5:15—6:6

Psalm 50:7-15

Romans 4:13-25

Genesis 12:1-9

Psalm 33:1-12

Transcript

00:00:02.33
Nathan Pile
Kevin, um when we were whippersnappers, young whippersnappers, there was a famous movie.

00:00:14.22
Nathan Pile
A movie that

00:00:19.16
Nathan Pile
that talked about that life moves pretty fast.

00:00:25.88
Nathan Pile
And there was a a movie star who is not a spring chicken anymore either, like you and I, um who was the played the starring role of that. And he had a quote in that, um, in that movie that said, life moves pretty fast.

00:00:44.02
Nathan Pile
If you don't stop once in a while, have a look around. It'll move right by you. Something like that. I'm sure somebody that's listening has the exact quote, but that's, that's roughly, it's a summary.

00:00:58.14
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:01:00.34
Nathan Pile
Matthew Broder was the actor who played Ferris Bueller in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

00:01:05.66
Kevin Shock
Oh, gosh. The quote didn't ring a bell for me, but yes, now I can picture it

00:01:10.58
Nathan Pile
Life moves pretty fast. And then it goes on and it's something about like, you gotta to take a break or you gotta to slow down or you gotta, it's anyway, it's about him skipping a whole day of school to do fun things.

00:01:18.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:01:21.40
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:01:22.94
Nathan Pile
In Chicago. And so I'm, I'm thinking that today, the beginning of June, Kevin, you and I ought to take a little break.

00:01:35.54
Kevin Shock
and

00:01:37.02
Nathan Pile
From the, the, the busyness of life and just engage in a little conversation around scripture.

00:01:38.33
Kevin Shock
ah

00:01:45.62
Kevin Shock
Yes, we should do that.

00:01:46.14
Nathan Pile
that Are you open to that invitation?

00:01:48.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:01:48.19
Nathan Pile
Okay. Yeah.

00:01:50.04
Kevin Shock
For sure.

00:01:50.47
Nathan Pile
So you didn't know where I was going with that one, did you?

00:01:54.87
Kevin Shock
No, no. I thought that you might have... I thought that you might have ended up where you did, but Yeah. But I didn't... No. No. I didn't expect it.

00:02:10.42
Nathan Pile
um Yeah, it's ah I don't believe you didn't remember Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Or the quote.

00:02:19.35
Kevin Shock
ah yeah I'm not... ah But I'm not a person who remembers movie quotes.

00:02:23.38
Nathan Pile
Oh.

00:02:24.06
Kevin Shock
um Yeah.

00:02:24.34
Nathan Pile
So I, cause I couldn't, bothered me. I had to look it up. Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

00:02:32.79
Kevin Shock
Yeah, isn't this um isn't this what he's saying to Cameron as he's ah trying to convince Cameron to steal that his dad's car for the day?

00:02:40.86
Nathan Pile
and That, or it could be at the end after they've run around and and they put the car in reverse up on a jack so they can take the miles off backwards.

00:02:47.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:02:51.09
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:02:51.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

00:02:54.39
Nathan Pile
and then, And then Cameron starts kicking the car and it and it goes out the glass window into the, the ravine behind the house kind of thing.

00:02:57.97
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep. Yep.

00:03:02.73
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:03:02.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that, all of that is classic.

00:03:03.53
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:03:05.83
Nathan Pile
If

00:03:07.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:03:09.18
Nathan Pile
you don't take a break, you don't stop and look around once in a while. You might miss it, Kevin. So in this ah in this crazy season of spring, crazy for me at camp and crazy for you as you prepare for Synod Assembly, I think we should take a little time to look around and stop and look around so we don't miss it.

00:03:29.53
Kevin Shock
oh

00:03:36.28
Nathan Pile
right

00:03:38.19
Kevin Shock
Yep, I think we should do that.

00:03:39.77
Nathan Pile
if ah So we're going to do that, Kevin, we're going to look at Matthew chapter 9. verses 9 through 13, and then 18 to 26.

00:03:51.51
Nathan Pile
If it's too hard to remember not to read 14 to 17, I say, go for it, people. You can read 9 to 26, chapter 9, verse 9 to 26.

00:04:02.10
Nathan Pile
But if you want to skip out those three verses, you go to town, or those four verses, you go to town, you know.

00:04:02.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I didn't.

00:04:06.40
Kevin Shock
I didn't. I didn't realize it was only four verses. I didn't even look to see what those verses say. That's interesting.

00:04:14.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Kevin and are going to read it out of the Common English Bible, um but you can follow along in whatever Bible you have close at hand. There's going to three questions to our conversation today. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? What role does mercy play in a life of faith? Wow, I didn't even know that was the question. And boy, it my, my, my, in My beginning you know kind of you know warms us up for that. i like it.

00:04:45.62
Nathan Pile
Nice.

00:04:46.12
Kevin Shock
Ferris Bueller beginning.

00:04:47.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah, my Ferris Bueller. Mercy, Grace, it's in there.

00:04:51.06
Kevin Shock
but Okay.

00:04:51.78
Nathan Pile
It's in there somewhere.

00:04:52.70
Kevin Shock
Okay. well ah Here's some, of here some information.

00:04:57.63
Nathan Pile
Cameron's dad's going to have to have mercy on him or he's going to kill his son, one of the other.

00:05:01.08
Kevin Shock
Well, that's true.

00:05:01.88
Nathan Pile
There's going to be mercy there.

00:05:02.08
Kevin Shock
That's true. We don't get that part of the sequel. um Here's some information about your host.

00:05:08.18
Nathan Pile
should be their kids. it should be the, The sequel should be their kids.

00:05:11.38
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

00:05:12.34
Nathan Pile
now Now, Ferris and Cameron and their kids. I'm going to start writing it right now, actually.

00:05:18.80
Kevin Shock
Okay, all right.

00:05:19.03
Nathan Pile
I can let just see it happening.

00:05:21.48
Kevin Shock
They're grandkids at this point.

00:05:25.98
Nathan Pile
Easy, buddy.

00:05:26.16
Kevin Shock
here's

00:05:26.66
Nathan Pile
Easy. Easy.

00:05:28.72
Kevin Shock
Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

00:05:41.30
Kevin Shock
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of Scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

00:05:56.06
Kevin Shock
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience. And as Nathan said, we're reading from Matthew 9, Common English Bible with a break in between.

00:06:08.95
Kevin Shock
I looked at the break. It doesn't make sense to read it. Somebody, some of John's disciples come and ask Jesus a question and he deals with them and then he goes back to what he's doing. So it's a little, yeah.

00:06:20.34
Nathan Pile
Kind of like life. You got to have to, you have to stop, pause and do some ministry in the middle of what you're teaching.

00:06:24.15
Kevin Shock
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay. From Matthew nine. As Jesus continued on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at a kiosk for collecting taxes. He said to him, follow me.

00:06:39.16
Kevin Shock
And he got up and followed him. As Jesus sat down to eat in Matthew's house, many tax collectors and sinners joined Jesus and his disciples at the table. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?

00:06:53.85
Kevin Shock
When Jesus heard it, he said, healthy people don't need a doctor, but sick people do. Go and learn what this means. I want mercy and not sacrifice. I didn't come to call righteous people, but sinners.

00:07:07.00
Kevin Shock
While Jesus was speaking to them, a ruler came and knelt in front of him, saying, My daughter has just died, but come and place your hand on her and she'll live. So Jesus and his disciples got up and went with him.

00:07:19.06
Kevin Shock
Then a woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched the hem of his clothes. She thought, If only I touch his robe, I'll be healed. When Jesus turned and saw her, he said, Be encouraged, daughter, your faith has healed you.

00:07:33.24
Kevin Shock
And the woman was healed from that time on. When Jesus went into the ruler's house, he saw the flute players and the distressed crowd. He said, Go away, because the little girl isn't dead, but is asleep.

00:07:46.46
Kevin Shock
But they laughed at him. After he had sent the crowd away, Jesus went in and touched her hand, and the little girl rose up. News about this spread throughout that whole region.

00:07:59.90
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group or another person, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:08:17.46
Nathan Pile
um

00:08:19.38
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

00:08:20.09
Nathan Pile
ah Well, again, I'm,

00:08:23.59
Nathan Pile
I'm interested... I'm interested that they've taken out this middle section and I hear you that it's it doesn't connect and yet, like there's just something about the, the teaching part of the beginning of this that is fascinating to me.

00:08:43.35
Nathan Pile
um And so I guess the, the John's disciples piece, isn't it continue is a continuation for me of that teaching part.

00:08:52.68
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:08:53.08
Nathan Pile
And then you have the healing part, right? But, and this, this is, this is common in all three gospels. Um,

00:09:03.67
Nathan Pile
or all four gospels that Jesus is about teaching and and healing, right? That like, those are his, his chief ministries, um, through all four gospels, even though they tell the stories maybe a little differently and, and to have some, um, different kinds of focus for the communities that you're talking about here. But, um, here we have Jesus in Matthew,

00:09:29.23
Nathan Pile
inviting Matthew to step away from work and I'm engaging in a meal in, in time of teaching essentially. And then Jesus teaches the Pharisees.

00:09:45.69
Nathan Pile
And ah again, the stuff that we got rid of the other people who would have been a part of Matthew's community who knew about John's disciples like the Pharisees are kind of taught and then John's disciples are kind of taught.

00:10:03.70
Nathan Pile
Um, so ah it's just interesting to me, ah the, the teaching and healing patterns, um, that happen in these gospels. And, and here we have, um, we have Jesus doing just that again.

00:10:26.55
Nathan Pile
And so the this idea of we think we know what's right, the Pharisees, we think we know what's right, and Jesus teaching. John's disciples, we think we know what's right, and Jesus teaching. And then, then, ah, then essentially a a double healing, right? Like somebody comes, asks for help, and Jesus goes and helps both the woman and the daughter.

00:10:54.33
Nathan Pile
And essentially...

00:10:58.84
Nathan Pile
the the, Yeah. Well, I don't know what you're going to say. so I don't want to go any farther because I said I was going to talk about the teaching. And so I'll stay focused there because you, you'll write this other thing.

00:11:10.23
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:11:11.63
Nathan Pile
So, so I'll stop there. What, what, uh, what about you, my friend? What word, phrase, image struck you?

00:11:21.98
Kevin Shock
ah Well, I'm curious, I'm, I'm, I'm curious about the teaching, too. I mean, teaching... Jesus does a lot of... Jesus does a lot of spoken teaching in Matthew's gospel.

00:11:35.45
Kevin Shock
He also does a lot of teaching by example, I guess. um

00:11:42.05
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:11:43.74
Kevin Shock
And that's, at the beginning of this reading, that's what comes to mind for me is because he's, you know, he's he's he's teaching religious leaders by eating with tax collectors and sinners.

00:11:58.39
Kevin Shock
or at least the people that they seem they see to be as tax collectors. and said I mean, of course they're tax collectors, but um sinners, that's a little more...

00:12:09.29
Kevin Shock
what's, What's the word? you get Like no one... People don't just come right out and say, yes, I'm a sinner. They're making a judgment about the people that he's eating with. um

00:12:23.29
Kevin Shock
What I... The thing that pops out at me... Oh, I opened the wrong tab there. um

00:12:32.09
Kevin Shock
Is when he says to the woman, be encouraged, daughter, your faith has healed you.

00:12:40.54
Kevin Shock
um I,

00:12:44.57
Kevin Shock
I, that, that, That line, your faith has healed you, always sticks with me. Not in a good way necessarily.

00:12:55.54
Kevin Shock
um Because I think that in our modern interpretation of so many things, like popular religion-wise,

00:13:07.86
Kevin Shock
um we too easily turn faith into a work.

00:13:15.00
Kevin Shock
And this almost sounds makes it sound like it's, it's a work.

00:13:15.12
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:13:19.16
Kevin Shock
that like you

00:13:20.56
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:13:20.92
Kevin Shock
because, Because you believe in me, that's, you know, that's why you're getting healed. Which also is not a... I don't think that's a wrong thing to say either. Because you believe in me, that's why you're getting healed. But like, I guess, I want to, I want to be, I want Jesus to be clearer here that the healing has come from him.

00:13:47.03
Kevin Shock
And not just from her faith.

00:13:54.17
Kevin Shock
The other thing I think about,

00:13:58.65
Kevin Shock
like, I don't know. I think it's, I think it's because the way the way that we the way that we hear faith talked about, that, you know, coming to belief is a work.

00:14:13.27
Kevin Shock
Something... So within the realm of human control, um this woman is coming to Jesus out of desperation.

00:14:26.01
Nathan Pile
hmm

00:14:26.55
Kevin Shock
and, And desperation is not a work. Desperation is a feeling. um

00:14:36.82
Kevin Shock
Her desperation drives her to just touch the hem of his cloak. and, and, and she, And she somehow trusts that in just doing that, she's going to be made well.

00:14:53.53
Kevin Shock
um So that trust comes out of desperation, I feel like.

00:15:00.70
Kevin Shock
Which makes me wonder what the relationship between faith and desperation is. um

00:15:07.81
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:15:09.98
Kevin Shock
And, and I wonder if... I wonder if faith has turned into a work in our modern understanding of it because we're too comfortable.

00:15:21.85
Kevin Shock
So like we, we need we need to be able to make faith a work because we're not desperate enough for that trust to well up in us the way that it did for this woman.

00:15:33.15
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

00:15:37.21
Kevin Shock
I'm not saying that I want me or anyone else to be in a situation of more desperation, but but there's something for me. in I, like, I want, You were talking about teaching. I wonder what Jesus really means when he says your faith has healed you.

00:15:55.70
Kevin Shock
and, And why he says that instead of saying I have healed you. Which... I feel like I know to be true, like he heals her.

00:16:13.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I don't know. that's, That's just kind of what I'm sitting with, what I'm playing around with in my head.

00:16:25.03
Nathan Pile
Um, boy, there's like, this is so, there's so many things I want to talk about, um, from your reflection and from,

00:16:38.07
Nathan Pile
so we have this teaching piece. Um, but the thing that I have found as you were talking, and I guess I noticed it before, I thought maybe you were going to go there, but, um,

00:16:53.86
Nathan Pile
and you were close, the woman who touches his hem is also called daughter.

00:17:00.44
Kevin Shock
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you're right. I didn't bring that up, but that is, that is definitely something that sticks out to me. Yeah.

00:17:08.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah, like there's, there, like that would be something to chew on. I would chew on that in a sermon. um

00:17:16.66
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:17:16.82
Nathan Pile
Probably a little bit, here of who's, you know, who, who is called daughter.

00:17:28.06
Nathan Pile
and, And the ruler is just as desperate as the woman who's bleeding.

00:17:35.83
Nathan Pile
The ruler comes and kneels. you know So again, this idea of if i'm if I'm the ruler, you wouldn't, in an honor-shame system, you wouldn't necessarily be down groveling at a wandering teacher's feet as a ruler.

00:17:49.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-mm.

00:17:54.23
Nathan Pile
And here, that's what we're told. This ruler is, is also desperate. So I do think this idea of desperation is an interesting, that you bring up, is super interesting to me of, and, and our affluency.

00:18:09.98
Nathan Pile
That doesn't mean I don't think that we can, I think we can still experience desperation in our affluency, in our in our consumeristic society,

00:18:20.95
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:18:22.10
Nathan Pile
and so forth. Oftentimes, though, it has to deal with medical emergencies, right? Like, that's the thing that we don't have. We feel like we don't have control over. um You know, somebody in our family gets bad health news, and it's devastating to all of us, because we don't know how to fix it. We don't know how to make it better. Yeah.

00:18:46.81
Nathan Pile
and there's that helplessness to it. And so I do think we can feel that desperation piece. um

00:18:55.67
Nathan Pile
So, but again, there's just, there's, there's several things here that to kind of just, you know, bring my synapses in my mind kind of to fire and say, well, let's, you know, let's talk about this and let's,

00:19:12.47
Nathan Pile
And so we have we have ah a father asking for a daughter. We have a woman who is named daughter, um who who is called, given the, given the relationship piece of Jesus claiming her as daughter,

00:19:31.06
Nathan Pile
um

00:19:34.01
Nathan Pile
which would be interesting. Um, you know, here we got the Son of God claiming

00:19:44.31
Nathan Pile
again, somebody who would have been seen and as unclean, sinful, is being claimed by Jesus. And so it's just the same as the tax collector and the other sinners who at the beginning of this chapter were eating a meal.

00:19:59.13
Nathan Pile
like this is, These are Jesus' people.

00:20:08.57
Nathan Pile
and, and, And Jesus... Jesus shows up in their midst and claims them by eating meals together, by healing. So,

00:20:25.30
Nathan Pile
yeah.

00:20:27.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah, oh well, yeah. I like what you say that at the end. He claims them.

00:20:35.32
Kevin Shock
in, In...

00:20:35.45
Nathan Pile
Well, that's what he's doing with the, the woman, right? His daughter.

00:20:38.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. claiming yeah claiming, Claiming them in loving, caring ways.

00:20:46.23
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:47.29
Kevin Shock
I mean, just what he's... he, he, He claims the tax collectors and sinners in this text, too.

00:20:53.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:20:54.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:20:54.52
Nathan Pile
Follow me.

00:20:56.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:21:02.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah, but even...

00:21:02.42
Nathan Pile
He said, follow me. And then Matthew went and made sure his household prepared a meal for everyone.

00:21:08.28
Kevin Shock
yeah. yeah, Yeah, well, that makes me wonder too. what what What is in that, what was it about that interaction between Jesus and Matthew that Matthew got up and followed? Because it's not a you better follow me or else you're going to be in trouble.

00:21:32.38
Kevin Shock
At least I can't imagine it's that. Because why would Matthew listen to that? i don't Maybe it maybe it is. but But the rest of the reading does not indicate that that's the kind of those are the kind of tactics that Jesus employs.

00:21:40.18
Nathan Pile
well but

00:21:46.27
Nathan Pile
Right. Right. It is a command. Kind

00:21:54.93
Nathan Pile
of piece. But

00:22:02.78
Nathan Pile
the, but he, you know, he follows. He

00:22:12.06
Nathan Pile
you know um I didn't go back and look in Matthew specifically to see how Jesus calls the other disciples that are listed, but my guess is follow me is the is the pattern.

00:22:23.80
Nathan Pile
The command of ah of a rabbi to, to disciples would be some you know simply, simple like that to be, you know, follow me.

00:22:32.57
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:22:38.58
Nathan Pile
Come with me and do what I do. learn, learn what I do.

00:22:47.22
Nathan Pile
And again, as a tax collector, he had to have Matthew had to have some,

00:22:54.87
Nathan Pile
there was a good piece of knowledge that had to be, you know, that he had, he had to be able to kind of keep the numbers straight. he had you know this is you know There would have been an accounting of whether or not he was doing a good job.

00:23:07.95
Nathan Pile
Somebody was going to overlook or over so you know look over his shoulder and be checking to make sure what he was doing was, was what he was doing because it was Roman money or Jewish leadership money.

00:23:18.96
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:22.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:23:25.48
Nathan Pile
It, it doesn't exactly say what kind of tax collector he is. but um

00:23:31.61
Nathan Pile
other than he's not held in regard by the Jews, the Pharisees. But he could have been a Sadducee tax collector, I guess. Again, we don't we don't have any of that. I'm just speculating.

00:23:50.97
Nathan Pile
So.

00:23:59.75
Kevin Shock
Well, you want to look at it a second time?

00:24:00.48
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:24:03.38
Nathan Pile
I say we look at it a second time.

00:24:11.99
Nathan Pile
As Jesus continued on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting in a kiosk for collecting taxes. He said to him, follow me. And he got up and followed him.

00:24:22.68
Nathan Pile
As Jesus sat down to eat in Matthew's house, many tax collectors and sinners joined Jesus and his disciples at the table. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?

00:24:37.27
Nathan Pile
When Jesus heard it, he said, Healthy people don't need a doctor, but sick people do. Go and learn what this means. I want mercy and not sacrifice.

00:24:50.68
Nathan Pile
I didn't come to call righteous people but sinners.

00:24:55.77
Nathan Pile
While Jesus was speaking to them, a ruler came and knelt in front of him, saying, My daughter has just died. Come and place your hand on her, and she'll live. So Jesus and his disciples got up and went with him.

00:25:09.78
Nathan Pile
Then a woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched the hem of his clothes. She thought, If only I touch his robe, I'll be healed.

00:25:21.69
Nathan Pile
When Jesus turned and saw her, he said, Be encouraged, daughter. Your faith has healed you. And the woman was healed from that time on. When Jesus went into the ruler's house, he saw the flute players and the distressed crowd.

00:25:36.76
Nathan Pile
He said, Go away, because the little girl isn't dead, but is asleep. But they laughed at him. After he had sent the crowd away, Jesus went in and touched her hand, and the little girl rose up.

00:25:50.23
Nathan Pile
News about this spread throughout the whole region.

00:25:56.31
Nathan Pile
Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:25:59.11
Kevin Shock
Oh my gosh, God's calling me to read the text more closely. I thought that you went rogue for a second, Nathan, when you started talking about the flute players and the distressed crowd, because I totally missed that detail when I read it.

00:26:11.42
Nathan Pile
that you read it the first time through?

00:26:13.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And I've read this a few times. I, um, I, I guess it's the CEB. It's just not what I'm used to hearing.

00:26:23.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:26:23.61
Kevin Shock
but ah But I mean, Matthew here is talking about the mourners. So that's part of the mourning crowd.

00:26:27.99
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

00:26:29.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So that's my answer.

00:26:30.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So that's a part that's a part of the tradition of mourning for those that aren't picking up what, what Kevin and I have picked up there as keywords of what's happening.

00:26:31.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:26:41.46
Kevin Shock
That's my answer that God is calling me to pay better attention to the text.

00:26:47.70
Nathan Pile
So you might say, you might say that God is saying, life moves pretty fast, Kevin. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

00:26:53.37
Kevin Shock
my gosh, oh my gosh you're you're really overplaying it um

00:27:01.45
Nathan Pile
I'm just loving how this is all coming together. I feel like it's a Holy Spirit moment.

00:27:03.64
Kevin Shock
yeah, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, has it, is it coming together? I guess it's coming together um

00:27:05.43
Nathan Pile
I feel it's a Holy Spirit moment. It's all coming together.

00:27:12.60
Kevin Shock
he ah, uh, I, I don't, you don't know exactly what, I mean, I, you know, embedded in that it's our third question about that.

00:27:24.54
Kevin Shock
um I want mercy and not sacrifice line, which I think is, yeah, that there's a, there's a lot, I think about that, but um I don't want to answer the second.

00:27:33.93
Nathan Pile
You're waiting. You're going to wait for that.

00:27:35.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I don't want to answer the second question that way. I, um

00:27:41.14
Nathan Pile
but You've answered the second question. I'm not asking you for more answer. you know You're okay with saying that you want.

00:27:44.54
Kevin Shock
No, that was just, that was just flippant. It was something that surprised me. Um, I, well, I, I do, I do think that there's, I know maybe it is related to that other one now, but it's not the, not the phrase itself. Um, Jesus's commandment command here to go and learn what this means.

00:28:10.36
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:28:14.14
Kevin Shock
That, like, I, I think, I think it takes our whole life long to figure out how to really live a life of faith. And, and we and we probably don't accomplish it before we die either.

00:28:31.26
Kevin Shock
I mean, I, I definitely don't think we accomplish it before we die. I think we're in constant movement toward

00:28:41.96
Kevin Shock
holiness righteousness um and we're in that constant movement because the holy spirit dances with us draws us in every day to to repent to turn around to change our hearts and minds um and uh

00:29:05.50
Kevin Shock
Yeah, to, to pay attention to what God is doing in the world and what God is doing in us. I think, you know, I said,

00:29:15.58
Kevin Shock
I said that I don't know that we're desperate enough because we're too comfortable. But we're not, we're not really comfortable. mean, we feel comfortable. But we're not necessarily secure.

00:29:29.42
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:29:29.98
Kevin Shock
and I think, I think comfort is a, Comfort is a feeling that can be fleeting if something comes to disrupt our comfort. And so there's a part of the here. I mean, that's that's just one aspect, I think, of my answer is that I'm recognizing that the things that bring me comfort are not really the things that not always are the things that bring me security or health or safety or life.

00:30:01.66
Kevin Shock
um But it sure can feel that way.

00:30:06.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:30:08.28
Kevin Shock
I think if we take a look around us, though, we see people who are, we can see people everywhere who are in a less comfortable place. And

00:30:21.56
Kevin Shock
and it makes a difference.

00:30:27.86
Kevin Shock
It just makes a difference in how they live and move in the world.

00:30:33.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, there's something you that as you talk about this idea of comfort, like that's definitely become a dominant,

00:30:43.77
Nathan Pile
a dominant cultural, um, barometer maybe like, like we, we want to be somewhat comfortable. Right. And, and what annoys us is if we're yanked out of that comforter, comfortableness, um,

00:31:02.94
Nathan Pile
And so it's interesting that that's become a, you know, I think like since the pandemic, people have felt less comfortable just in general, in culture.

00:31:18.43
Nathan Pile
like' and, and there's there's And I think we were uncomfortable maybe even before the pandemic, but the pandemic really caused it to

00:31:18.81
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:31:25.88
Nathan Pile
the the slowdown, the, the pause that occurred during that 2020 year um for those couple of months when things really kind of um paused, it caused us to do a little bit of evaluating and then, but then we hurried up and went back to stuff. But since then, it, it doesn't seem we're as comfortable with the way of the world as we were before the pandemic.

00:31:53.18
Nathan Pile
And so there's something about that comfortableness disturbing. Like when we disturb of the comfortableness, it gets us, ah you know, our anxiety gets a little bit more. it were We're agitated maybe in, in ways that we weren't before.

00:32:14.87
Nathan Pile
um

00:32:18.23
Nathan Pile
Things that were little now feel bigger. because of that this disturbance of the comfortable. and And we haven't seemed to be able to get back into whatever comfortable is, um which is, I think, okay. I think that's bringing about change in ourselves and in our communities and our it's causing us to ask questions of places where we were comfortable that maybe we shouldn't be

00:32:50.33
Nathan Pile
just, just doing the same thing over and over again. Um, but you're, come you're, you're, uh, kind of identifying the comfortable, um, is interesting to me. Like, it's like there's something there. I agree with you. There's something there and in our, in our culture, in our country, seeking to be, um comfortable now seems to be, uh,

00:33:21.98
Nathan Pile
a part of what we're seeking to do.

00:33:26.26
Nathan Pile
Make ourselves comfortable, make our kids comfortable. um and, And often here at camp, we talk about the difference between safe and comfortable, and they're not the same thing.

00:33:38.39
Nathan Pile
um

00:33:39.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:33:39.93
Nathan Pile
That, that oftentimes we want to feel comfortable.

00:33:40.05
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. yeah

00:33:43.35
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:33:43.61
Nathan Pile
But our goal at camp sometimes is that we want everyone to feel safe. That's the goal, not that that you feel comfortable. um So I but that you had kind of identified that in this. That's... I think it's powerful. Again, I don't know what to say exactly about it more than what I've i've shared, but there's a tension there, I guess, for me that that is fascinating about the world that we live in right now.

00:34:16.18
Nathan Pile
Like, I don't know if, you know, 500 years ago, 100 years ago, people were worrying about trying to be comfortable, but that definitely seems like something we tried to do today.

00:34:30.28
Nathan Pile
I don't know.

00:34:31.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well that yeah that opens up a whole new can of worms. I mean, well, no, but I just want to recognize that like since

00:34:35.54
Nathan Pile
Yeah, we don't have to open those, but.

00:34:42.49
Kevin Shock
really since the Industrial Revolution. And I mean, and I'm not talking like, oh, things were great before the Industrial Revolution. I'm not talking, don't mean that at all.

00:34:52.90
Kevin Shock
Things were pretty bad for a lot of people. um

00:34:56.03
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

00:34:56.86
Kevin Shock
But also things remained bad for a lot of people even after the Industrial Revolution. And now we find ourselves in a technological revolution that is making people less secure all the time.

00:35:12.34
Kevin Shock
um and um you know moving moving even farther away from humanity, um

00:35:23.93
Kevin Shock
people who no longer have livelihood because of technology. and yeah but it's It's troubling to me, but, but I, but I also think that we, for a long time,

00:35:42.42
Kevin Shock
We um

00:35:48.28
Kevin Shock
we just chased after something bigger and better. And the people who got it are still chasing it. And it's making it impossible for the people who live to find it, I guess. i that Yeah, I don't know. Just...

00:36:07.06
Kevin Shock
I keep saying I don't know. I, I'm just rambling here. I had a conversation last night with one of our colleagues and I, I recalled seeing somewhere recently that you know sometimes you hear statistics about how minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation and minimum wage should really be like $21 or something if, if, if it were to keep up.

00:36:32.06
Kevin Shock
I saw another ah read another article brief study or post about a study that where someone did a study on earning power and looked at like what people in, um like the 1970s were able to accomplish like sixties or seventies were able to accomplish with the money that they made.

00:36:56.34
Kevin Shock
And the results of that study and the, and the computations of this person, this researcher did, ah The result was that when it comes to earning power, people in this day and age to have the same earning power as people like in the 1960s or 70s would have to have an average wage of $208 hour.

00:37:26.23
Kevin Shock
because housing has gotten so exorbitant, food has gotten so exorbitant and and people are embroiled in, you know, education has gotten more expensive.

00:37:28.63
Nathan Pile
sure

00:37:34.92
Kevin Shock
People are just drowning in debt. um which wasn't necessarily the case for our parents or grandparents generation. oh maybe maybe Maybe it was starting with our parents, but but certainly with our grandparents, it wasn't that necessarily that way.

00:37:52.02
Kevin Shock
um But yeah, so I think about that and like the other thing that I've really been thinking about a lot, because I've hearing been hearing it more this with this 250th anniversary of the United States,

00:38:06.23
Kevin Shock
um those inalienable rights that were aren' guaranteed to people, some some people, um um white white people, men, landowners, um

00:38:14.57
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:38:17.29
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:38:23.54
Kevin Shock
ah mumble mumble, comment comment. They like, life and Life, yeah, like, great.

00:38:34.22
Kevin Shock
I'm on board with liberty. Great. Yes, I'm on board with that. ah The place where I have issues, the pursuit of happiness.

00:38:41.32
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:38:44.28
Kevin Shock
I guess a reading like this makes me wonder, do humans deserve happiness or, or is, is happiness the thing that we really should be pursuing?

00:38:58.87
Kevin Shock
Because I think, I think to hold the pursuit of happiness above things like the pursuit of justice leads to a, or the common good.

00:39:08.72
Nathan Pile
Or the common and good.

00:39:12.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right. Well, right. I guess we could define it as common happiness, but I don't think that that's necessarily what,

00:39:20.50
Nathan Pile
Right. Well, that's not how we've taken it, though, in our culture.

00:39:22.51
Kevin Shock
that's not how we've interpreted it, if that's what it was meant.

00:39:23.11
Nathan Pile
Right. it's my pursuit of happiness, which then comes in conflict with the other 3 million Americans who have their own ideas.

00:39:26.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:39:31.55
Kevin Shock
300. Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:32.37
Nathan Pile
300, 300, not 3 million, sorry, 300 Americans.

00:39:32.69
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

00:39:34.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:34.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:39:35.32
Nathan Pile
americans

00:39:36.06
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:39:36.57
Nathan Pile
um

00:39:37.27
Kevin Shock
Everyone has their own idea what the pursuit of happiness is. And, and if, if my happiness causes other people despair, ah how is that good?

00:39:40.47
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:39:50.23
Kevin Shock
it Like it might be a right, but there are plenty of rights that I don't, engage in because they don't, they're not good for me or other people. I, yeah.

00:40:04.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:40:09.87
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Well, anyway, I don't know.

00:40:11.83
Nathan Pile
Well, thank you for expounding upon your very cheeky beginning statement.

00:40:12.31
Kevin Shock
Well, just the first part was cheeky. I don't want to deny the flute players their happiness.

00:40:24.86
Kevin Shock
If that's what it takes to help with the morning.

00:40:26.95
Nathan Pile
They're only happy when they're playing funeral dirges.

00:40:29.43
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

00:40:33.02
Nathan Pile
um Well, thanks for asking, Kevin. Yeah, the for me, the other side of this, you see what I did there? um

00:40:42.14
Kevin Shock
What? What? I didn't ask you anything. What?

00:40:46.42
Nathan Pile
Well, I'm answering the question, the second question.

00:40:48.41
Kevin Shock
Yes, please answer the second question.

00:40:48.63
Nathan Pile
because Yeah, yeah, because you didn't you didn't take us there.

00:40:50.09
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:40:51.98
Nathan Pile
So just I made the pivot myself.

00:40:56.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah, thanks.

00:40:56.14
Nathan Pile
um Toward what am I called?

00:40:56.61
Kevin Shock
Thanks. I was so deep in thought.

00:40:58.90
Nathan Pile
I'm called to be with the desperate people, man. That's what this is telling me. I got to be with the desperate people.

00:41:04.62
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:41:06.94
Nathan Pile
We as the church, we as God's people, we as faith communities need to be with the desperate people. And not just doing it out of charity, but being with them in the midst of their struggle and pain, sitting at meals together, engaging them, getting to know who they are and what their struggles are.

00:41:32.73
Nathan Pile
um Being able to have built enough trust that they can share with us their desperate um truths um of the need for for healing, for the need of a miracle, being able to being able to to be present in such a way in their lives that those personal truths become known so that

00:42:00.21
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

00:42:06.78
Nathan Pile
Aid might be able to be brought. I'm not saying that we as God's people can necessarily be do the healing that the Son of God is able to to accomplish, but there's also lots of things in our our culture and our society that could bring about aid to others that we as God's disciples can um, be a part of, uh, helping bring about for people.

00:42:33.78
Nathan Pile
So, so, you know, for me, it's, you gotta to be with the last, the least, the lost, the lonely, and the lame here, um, is what this passage kind of calls towards to to me to, to be how I place myself, um, there.

00:42:33.91
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:42:50.85
Nathan Pile
How do, how do we, as God's faith community do that? Um,

00:42:59.67
Nathan Pile
And I think in some ways we've talked about it because they're open, they're desperate, they, they're, they're seeking help. Whereas much of our, our pursuit of happiness on an individual level um might get in the way for others who feel like, yeah I'm doing okay, I'm making everything work. I've done pretty well in my life. I don't need anyone or any, I don't need a divine

00:43:28.82
Nathan Pile
connection because I've taken care of it myself. You know, I think it's that that fear even that you shared a little bit of, is it because this woman believed that she was healed?

00:43:33.34
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:43:41.30
Nathan Pile
you know I don't think you and I look at that healing as that that's what has occurred here. This is Jesus doing the healing. he's, He's celebrating her faith. He's celebrating her trust that Jesus is the one to be able to do this, just as Jesus in some ways celebrates the ruler's faith by getting up and going with him in his desperation to go to his home.

00:44:06.57
Nathan Pile
And... and and and believes that he can make a difference and that's that he will, will be the one that brings about life, even in in some ways of pushing the flute players and the mourners out the door so that he can do his work.

00:44:23.48
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:44:25.69
Nathan Pile
So essentially creating a bit of a scene, does he really need to throw out the flute players and they'll leave once the girl gets up and walks away from the bed? Let's be honest. Um, does he need to cause a scene?

00:44:36.50
Nathan Pile
He does. Um, And so know this, this part of who Jesus is, again, we we can't be that, but together we can be the body of Christ for those who are in deep desperation.

00:44:52.86
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

00:44:56.38
Nathan Pile
And how do we how do we come alongside and, and live into this example, leaving our comfort space to go into uncomfortable spaces. So I think that's where that that I feel called towards here.

00:45:23.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah, how does that how does that work out for us when we're called to be in a particular space and time and serving a particular group of people?

00:45:35.50
Nathan Pile
What do you mean?

00:45:37.21
Kevin Shock
Like...

00:45:38.46
Nathan Pile
If you're called specifically to St. Luke Lutheran Church and you're called to those people, how do you go outside beyond those people to serve?

00:45:46.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:45:51.16
Kevin Shock
I mean, I, I guess, like, like you're in a, I'm, I'm not picking on you, but I am.

00:45:56.54
Nathan Pile
You can.

00:45:57.66
Kevin Shock
I'm using you as an example.

00:45:58.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Bring it.

00:45:59.02
Kevin Shock
You, you're a, You're a camp director.

00:46:02.80
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:46:03.64
Kevin Shock
And so in your everyday life and work and call, you may not necessarily... be traveling in the same channels as the people who are most marginalized in your community or in your area.

00:46:26.07
Nathan Pile
True. um but I could also say like, I guess what I'm say a little bit more.

00:46:36.79
Kevin Shock
um

00:46:40.89
Kevin Shock
I've, I've been elected and called. by a large group of people to do specific work, which means I'm not out on the street corner feeding people who are hungry.

00:46:55.59
Nathan Pile
True.

00:46:55.99
Kevin Shock
And I'm not, um ah sometimes I might be called to advocate for certain people, but I'm not doing that all the time.

00:47:06.62
Nathan Pile
Sure. But you could also be creating as, as the Bishop of the Synod, you can also be creating, um, space where others can be doing that, maybe reducing or enhancing the church systems, improving the church systems so that they might more freely be able to do that.

00:47:29.02
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:47:29.24
Kevin Shock
Thank

00:47:30.49
Nathan Pile
So as the as the camp director, I can use, because now I think I have a a sense of what you're saying. as At Sequanota, some people might say, Nathan, you've been called to be the camp director at Sequanota, and therefore the people you should be most worried about are the children and youth of the Allegheny Synod.

00:47:50.55
Nathan Pile
And though I am worried about that, we also at Sequanota make space for our Roman Catholic diocese siblings to come and spend a week at Sequanota so that they have a place to encounter God in in this space. We do the same for the Muslim youth of North America, which would be, or the of the mid-Atlantic region of North America, which would be from Toronto to New York City, down to Virginia and over to Ohio and back up. um Some people might say, Nathan, that's those aren't those aren't Lutheran children coming to your camp.

00:48:27.10
Nathan Pile
But I would argue part of my call is to expand who Sequanota serves. um and And so if the board was unhappy, their job to me would be then to say, Nathan, you need to get rid of, we, we can't have these outside groups coming.

00:48:46.07
Nathan Pile
um But I think I've made the case that part of who we are it as Sequoia is to be that inclusive space where all can come, where all are safe, where all um might experience the love of God in community and And truly what that means and looks like, which is really, you know it's not simple to create when we're when we can be different from each other.

00:49:13.72
Nathan Pile
And so it's, it's, it, you know, it takes work to do that. And so, so yeah, I'm, am I out over in Jennerstown or in Boswell where I know they have a food pantry?

00:49:24.66
Nathan Pile
Am I over there serving in that space and place? No, but I would encourage people to do that. And if I have time to do that myself, like, well, we make sure to donate to those spaces as a family.

00:49:34.65
Kevin Shock
Thank

00:49:38.10
Nathan Pile
And even as a camp, when we have, produce from the garden that we know we can't use anymore. Where does it go? It goes to those kinds of um places. um But at the same time, I, the, a part of my call is to lead this organization to broaden its boundaries, if that makes sense.

00:50:01.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure.

00:50:01.43
Nathan Pile
And so um so I think that's a part of it for me. And I, and I get that as in congregations, we say, well, this is we have to we have to worry, like you've been called to be the pastor here, or this is the Lutheran church I'm a part of.

00:50:16.50
Nathan Pile
And so I'm, I'm a part of this church. And so I need to worry just about this ministry. But right now for me, it's hard to get past that God is calling us to be bigger than our silos um that we've created.

00:50:30.38
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:50:31.94
Nathan Pile
And so how might we do that? Um, and, and, And then to do to put that, that back into context about even our youth and kids at camp, 60% of sequin-o's campers aren't Lutheran kids.

00:50:48.86
Nathan Pile
And so we raise... hopefully here in 2026, we'll raise about $30,000 for scholarships that we can give to any kid, any kid that wants to come to a faith Christian faith-based camp where where the values that we hold is important and advertise out there on the website is important.

00:51:07.93
Nathan Pile
And a parent says, oh, I want my kid to experience that, but we don't have a Lutheran church that can support us to come.

00:51:10.23
Kevin Shock
Thank

00:51:13.06
Nathan Pile
Okay, we have a scholarship fund that can make that happen. And so again, I'm trying to create structures and systems that allow us to do, to go beyond. Doesn't mean I want to leave being, I'm a Lutheran pastor, obviously. I want to, but that's who I am. It's what my system is made up of. It's what I teach to my staff and to our campers.

00:51:33.21
Nathan Pile
It's who I ask. I ask other Lutheran pastors to come and be a part of camp as volunteers over the course of the summer. but But how do how do we tear down some of the silo walls that keeps us just doing that for Lutherans is a part of my job as a as the camp director.

00:51:55.19
Nathan Pile
So that my staff can say, hey, could we help do this? And I can say, let's figure out what, what would keep us from doing it and then overcome it if we can.

00:52:07.06
Kevin Shock
Thanks.

00:52:07.24
Nathan Pile
Does that answer your question?

00:52:08.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it right. I wasn't, I wasn't calling you to account. I hope you didn't hear it that way.

00:52:13.43
Nathan Pile
no, no, no, No, no, no, no, but.

00:52:14.08
Kevin Shock
I just, that's recognizing that we all have particular calls and and so and sometimes those calls don't put, and not just not just like vocations, but um but, you know, calls to be parents, calls to be spouses, calls to be lots of different, you know,

00:52:33.78
Kevin Shock
different things to different people, it doesn't mean that we can be with the most marginalized all the time.

00:52:40.83
Nathan Pile
Correct, correct.

00:52:41.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:52:42.71
Nathan Pile
And I think, and for us, we have to ask ourselves, what's mine to do? You know, so what's, what's mine to do?

00:52:48.44
Kevin Shock
That, that's helpful. Yeah. who Yeah.

00:52:51.50
Nathan Pile
um

00:52:51.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:52:52.44
Nathan Pile
Because yeah, I can go and serve in the food pantry, but if in my position, I might be able to empower or do some bigger things, then then I think there's a, even though those might be harder,

00:53:05.27
Nathan Pile
um or feel more distant from the local community, um I still think that then I have to, read I have to, in my work, I have to wrestle with that.

00:53:18.99
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:53:19.06
Nathan Pile
And then, um and, and kind of go from there. So, yeah.

00:53:30.60
Kevin Shock
All right, thanks. um I think we should read it a third time, looking at our the time ticking.

00:53:31.82
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yep.

00:53:34.49
Nathan Pile
I think we should. Yeah, looking at our time. Yeah. yeah, yeah

00:53:36.92
Kevin Shock
um From Matthew 9. As Jesus continued on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at a kiosk for collecting taxes. He said to him, follow me. And he got up and followed him.

00:53:48.31
Kevin Shock
As Jesus sat down to eat in Matthew's house, many tax collectors and sinners joined Jesus and his disciples at the table. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?

00:54:00.28
Kevin Shock
When Jesus heard it, he said, healthy people don't need a doctor, but sick people do. Go and learn what this means. I want mercy and not sacrifice.

00:54:07.27
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:54:08.66
Kevin Shock
I didn't come to call righteous people, but sinners. While Jesus was speaking to them, a ruler came and knelt in front of him, saying, my daughter has just died, but come and place your hand on her and she'll live.

00:54:21.11
Kevin Shock
So Jesus and his disciples got up and went with him. Then a woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched the hem of his clothes. She thought, if I only touch his robe, I'll be healed.

00:54:34.84
Kevin Shock
When Jesus turned and saw her, he said, be encouraged, daughter. Your faith has healed you. And the woman was healed from that time on. When Jesus went to the ruler's house, he saw the flute players and the distressed crowd.

00:54:48.02
Kevin Shock
He said, go away because the little girl isn't dead, but is asleep. But they laughed at him. After he had sent the crowd away, Jesus went in and touched her hand and the little girl rose up.

00:54:59.54
Kevin Shock
News about this spread throughout that whole region. Nathan, what role does mercy play in a life of faith?

00:55:08.66
Nathan Pile
ah Um, we've not, we've talked about mercy here and there, I think in this podcast over the last three and a half years. Um, but I, I think I'm, I'm being completely honest and vulnerable.

00:55:21.59
Nathan Pile
Mercy has grown on me in the last 10 years than it did for the first 46 or whatever, for 40 years of my life. Um, I always kind of thought mercy was an old Testament thing.

00:55:36.41
Nathan Pile
you know, oh, the mercy, you know, a grace, grace was always a new Testament thing, but, but, a you know, merciful God, I can remember praying, you know, that we have prayer, merciful God.

00:55:37.04
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:55:46.05
Nathan Pile
And, and like, I didn't, to me, a lot of times I put mercy with a more violent God. God would show mercy instead of showing punishment, that kind of.

00:55:59.46
Nathan Pile
And so that was a, a piece for me of, um, in a black and white world, mercy was, was the way to kind of keep moving. Maybe I shouldn't use black and white, I should use a good, bad world in, in the binary world where we wanna make ones and zeros.

00:56:22.71
Nathan Pile
um you know Again, finding that we don't really live in a binary world, but we try to simplify as as human beings, right? what's What's good and what's bad. um we want to we want to keep it simple because it's easier for our heads to keep to to make sense of things if it's simple so those are good, you, you have good behavior you have bad behavior and then we've broken it down to ones and zeros good bad good bad um and so as I think when I was younger I always thought you know as long as I was what I considered to be good then mercy was less of a thing but I think as I've gotten older I recognize that we all like I need mercy

00:57:02.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:57:02.55
Nathan Pile
And so everybody needs mercy. We need it. And it needs to be something that we practice with others because we can look at our, we look down our nose at other people and say, well, I've always been good. I've done the right things. And so I can look down at you and say that you're bad.

00:57:20.66
Nathan Pile
um And so, like we all, we all need mercy. We, ah we there's things that we, we, We hide from other people because we're ashamed of them because of the things that we've done aren't good.

00:57:36.63
Nathan Pile
and so, And so we pretend that everything we've done is good and and kind of say, well, I, um, I am good. to this this would be But recognizing that we all need mercy. And I think here in this example of...

00:57:52.66
Nathan Pile
the woman, the bleeding woman who comes and grabs Jesus' hem. Again, I think we see this piece of, of lived out example of mercy in Christ who says, you needed this, it's yours.

00:58:08.33
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:58:08.89
Nathan Pile
um and, And the reality is we all we all need mercy in different aspects of our lives. And the older I get, the more I realize that. And so, like my answer to this question of what role does mercy play in my life of faith? I think it it didn't, I would say, other than it was a churchy word that was thrown around for my first 40 years, but in the last 10 years, it's become more a part of my life.

00:58:36.06
Nathan Pile
And then how do I live into being merciful? You know as a camp director, like people make mistakes. And so then how do I, how do I help them? hear that I'm not happy with this behavior, but that it's not a, I'm going to beat you over the head because you did something wrong.

00:58:54.92
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:58:55.93
Nathan Pile
Like mercy has to become a part of how I practice and live my life as ah as a, as disciple of Christ. And so again, I'm practicing it. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it. Um,

00:59:08.12
Nathan Pile
because still can be harsh on my ex what my expectations are because we're dealing with other people's kids sometimes. So I can be pretty. But I do try to give myself a little of space between my initial emotion and, and my conversation with staff if I can be so that I, I can be more, I can practice to be more merciful.

00:59:32.34
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:59:33.56
Nathan Pile
So what about you, my friend?

00:59:34.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah, well, your answer helps me and the text helps me again. um ah Mercy, I think, is a positional thing. And you said in your response, um you know, it doesn't, I can't remember exactly how you phrased it, but ah but you said, it's not good to be the person who looks down on others and says, you know, I'm doing things the right way. And in this in this text, you have you have three people who come to Jesus in a

01:00:06.62
Kevin Shock
in a come to Jesus or Jesus' encounters in a position of humility. The ruler comes and kneels before him.

01:00:18.55
Kevin Shock
The woman comes and stoops down and grabs the hem of his, touches the hem of his clothes. The, the girl is dead. So lying down beneath him and in each of those situations, he gives dignity to those people.

01:00:34.94
Kevin Shock
And I, and.

01:00:35.26
Nathan Pile
and I think you would even say that the tax collector who's out in his little kiosk because nobody else wants them in their building, he's, he's provided companionship for a, an outsider of, of the community.

01:00:44.18
Kevin Shock
Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, Yeah, Jesus doesn't really approach people and say, what's wrong with you? Sometimes I think he'll say something akin to that whenever people are approaching him and trying to ah trying to you know catch him in something or or accuse him of something um or argue with him. but But when people are approaching him, he doesn't...

01:01:08.95
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, he he does it positionally. He cares for them and, and puts himself on their level.

01:01:19.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:01:22.18
Kevin Shock
I mean, that is, that's the, that's, that's the great news of the incarnation is that God comes and puts God's self on our level, takes on flesh and blood, goes to death.

01:01:35.80
Kevin Shock
um And I think that's what mercy is. sacrifice, I think as it's said here, I mean, Jesus is quoting Hebrew scripture here you know you said you thought of mercy as an old testament thing it is it's it's something that Jesus carries from from the scripture that he knows um I desire mercy not sacrifice, I, sacrifice here is you know you you do something wrong

01:01:50.01
Nathan Pile
but Well, it is for me.

01:02:01.40
Kevin Shock
And so you, you pay the penance for what the wrong is that you did. You bring your turtle doves or whatever, and you give them to the priest who sacrificed them on the altar. This line for me means don't do the wrong.

01:02:17.85
Kevin Shock
Because you're this the sacrifice that God is looking for, and it says that somewhere in Hebrew scripture is a contrite heart. um That's the sacrifice that God wants.

01:02:29.65
Kevin Shock
not, God doesn't want your turtle doves or your oil or your grain.

01:02:29.94
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

01:02:33.69
Kevin Shock
God wants your heart. And what God wants a heart that is merciful and humble. um Because that is what ends up serving all of humankind and creation well.

01:02:49.66
Kevin Shock
yeah so for me, mercy is a positional thing. And that's, that's the role it plays in the life of faith that A life of faith calls us into a position of mercy.

01:03:05.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's it.

01:03:07.14
Nathan Pile
Look at that.

01:03:08.98
Kevin Shock
what, ah, What additional readings would you like to drive around in the Ferrari with?

01:03:18.30
Nathan Pile
I like what you did there. I see what you did.

01:03:19.80
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

01:03:20.57
Nathan Pile
I see how you brought it back around. ah In the convertible, I think we should take with us Hosea chapter 5, verse 15 through chapter 6, verse 6. God desires steadfast love.

01:03:34.58
Nathan Pile
ah We can also pull out Psalm chapter, Psalm number 50, verses 7 through 15. verses seven through fifteen Call upon me in the day of trouble, says your God, for poor Cameron, who has now kicked his dad's car into the ditch. um Romans chapter 4, verse 13 through 25, the promise to those who share Abraham's faith.

01:03:59.93
Nathan Pile
ah And then additional, what are they called? Provincial? what, What's the provisional?

01:04:07.16
Kevin Shock
Oh, they're not, they're not, no, they're sorry.

01:04:07.71
Nathan Pile
Provisional means.

01:04:09.60
Kevin Shock
They're no longer provisional, but we are in the season where this is semi-continuous readings.

01:04:12.40
Nathan Pile
Oh, this is the second, this is the other semi-continuous reading here.

01:04:16.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:04:17.34
Nathan Pile
So Genesis chapter 12 verses one through nine. So this would be over the course of the summer where the you could read a little bit more what feels like more continually through the Old Testament.

01:04:34.85
Nathan Pile
And so Genesis chapter 12 verses one through nine, Abraham's journey in the promise. Abram's journey in the promises before he's changed name change. And then Psalm chapter or Psalm 33 verses one through 12. Happy is the nation whose God is the Lord.

01:04:55.80
Nathan Pile
So you can, you could dig into those additional texts this week as well. As always, Kevin, it is I appreciate our time together and being able to stop and look around this week.

01:05:08.89
Nathan Pile
um and And appreciate life and especially how scripture impacts it. So thanks for your reflection this week. Those of you listening, again, we encourage you to share your thoughts and reflections with us.

01:05:22.87
Nathan Pile
on the social media email channels. And we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:05:31.22
Kevin Shock
And peace.