S4 Episode 35: Matthew 10:40-42

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How might you begin a life of welcome?

Additional texts:

Jeremiah 28:5-9

Psalm 89:1-4, 15-18

Romans 6:12-23

Genesis 22:1-14

Psalm 13

Transcript

00:01.56
Kevin Shock
Nathan, it's time for Tend. I know that we normally have something at the beginning here to kind of talk to each other a little bit. So do you have a joke you want to tell? I'm not sure.

00:17.88
Nathan Pile
So it's my job to get us started and I don't have a plan.

00:18.81
Kevin Shock
that

00:21.76
Nathan Pile
So Nathan, you got a joke?

00:24.42
Kevin Shock
Oh, jokes on you.

00:25.05
Nathan Pile
hey Kevin, Hey, Bishop, I got one for you.

00:26.74
Kevin Shock
Jokes on you.

00:28.71
Nathan Pile
um

00:29.11
Kevin Shock
No, I'm kidding.

00:30.36
Nathan Pile
the What do you give a deer with indigestion?

00:30.75
Kevin Shock
Mmm, yeah oh o oh o I don't know. What do you give a deer with indigestion?

00:40.45
Nathan Pile
Elk-a-seltzer. Elk, E-L-K.

00:43.96
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah, I got it I got it.

00:44.21
Nathan Pile
Elk-a-seltzer. You get it? Oh, ho, ho, ho.

00:47.54
Kevin Shock
Got it. That's really a really good joke. Nathan um ah ah Thankfully we have other careers to fall back on. Um,

00:59.51
Kevin Shock
and, And part of that calling,

01:01.75
Nathan Pile
We have to fall back on.

01:02.04
Kevin Shock
ah not not just the

01:04.79
Nathan Pile
just sounds so good.

01:06.17
Kevin Shock
not just as pastors of the church, but um also as as a striving to be good and faithful people, good, good ah faith people of faith, we are talking about scripture today.

01:19.26
Kevin Shock
um If this was an an hour of us telling jokes, well, we I don't think we would have gotten past season one. Yeah.

01:25.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

01:27.13
Kevin Shock
So we are going to talk about scripture today in a non-joking fashion, but, but, but probably a joyful fashion. um And the scripture we're looking at is Matthew 10.

01:35.13
Nathan Pile
Yeah, probably.

01:39.46
Kevin Shock
It's a short one, verses 40 through 42. ah We are using, again, the NRSVUE translation. um there's a specific reason why I chose that translation Nathan because it translates one in integral word of the text as in a way that the are the other translations, we normally use do not translate that word.

02:03.51
Nathan Pile
Mm.

02:06.23
Nathan Pile
Interesting.

02:07.42
Kevin Shock
And we are going to look at that reading, engage that reading by using three questions. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

02:17.97
Kevin Shock
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how might you begin a life of welcome?

02:26.27
Nathan Pile
Wow. That'll be good. when we get to it, unless we cover it in the first question like we do sometimes. So, um, no, we don't ever do that.

02:35.10
Kevin Shock
No, no, no.

02:38.62
Nathan Pile
Some information about your comedic hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

02:41.88
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

02:49.16
Nathan Pile
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

03:01.50
Nathan Pile
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and what and think from your life experience.

03:15.80
Nathan Pile
Matthew chapter 10.

03:20.21
Nathan Pile
Whoever welcomes you, welcomes me. And whoever welcomes me, welcomes the one who sent me. Whoever welcomes a prophet in the name of a prophet will receive a prophet's reward.

03:33.91
Nathan Pile
And whoever welcomes a righteous person in the name of a righteous person will receive the reward of the righteous. And whoever gives even a cup of cold water to the one of these little ones in the name of a disciple Truly I tell you, none of these will lose their reward.

04:01.27
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Kevin answers the first question, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

04:18.10
Kevin Shock
Well, the word that strikes me, I can't say it strikes me for good reason. So I feel kind of bad about that, but it's the word reward.

04:26.55
Nathan Pile
Oh, that was what hit me this time too when I read it.

04:29.66
Kevin Shock
oh in

04:30.81
Nathan Pile
First time it was a different word, but this time it was welcome or it was reward. Go ahead. well why, why, why, why, Why does it hit you?

04:37.85
Kevin Shock
ah Because it it almost makes it sound like it... it It makes it sound to me, and maybe there's a different understanding for the word reward, um but it sounds to me like ah you like we're like you're doing something to get something out of it.

04:56.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's why I didn't like it either.

04:58.40
Kevin Shock
OK, all right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what that word is. I certainly don't know what that word is in Greek or Aramaic. um what Jesus would have been implying there. um Cause it may be, a it, it, it, the meaning, I guess there's a chance that the meaning would be less transactional and be

05:23.86
Kevin Shock
ah talking about the Like ah Jesus also never mentions what the reward is necessarily.

05:33.82
Nathan Pile
Well, sure, sure.

05:35.77
Kevin Shock
Like the reward, is it, is it eternal life? Is it salvation? um is the reward, Is the reward in the welcome itself? You know, that that could be, if that's the case, I don't feel so bad about it. but um But it does make it seem like,

05:55.06
Kevin Shock
or, or it, it seems like it appeals to our base desires like well you know do this thing because you'll you'll get something out of it if you do it um um yeah I guess that's where that's just kind of where I land with that word and what it means what what what do you have to say about that

06:17.34
Nathan Pile
ah my Just as we as we as I read it that time, that word reward, it was the same thing. Like this is a transactionary thing. If I welcome, there will be reward.

06:31.03
Nathan Pile
And I just didn't like it.

06:34.29
Nathan Pile
It's pretty much, that's my pretty, very simple idea.

06:34.31
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

06:41.06
Nathan Pile
you know, the, the, the reward in this passage, it was a turnoff at the end. Like the whole way through, I was like, Ooh, welcomes, welcomes, welcomes, you know, this is important. And, and again, we're in summer camp season. And so to me, welcome is really important. Being good at helping people feel welcome.

07:04.28
Nathan Pile
Like they belong, that they're accepted in the community. Those, those are things. Those are big feelings that we try to teach and practice here in our camp community. And so I was on board with all of it. And then that last statement it was the thing that kind of made me go,

07:23.29
Nathan Pile
ah like took all the wind out of it. Like we're just doing it because this is who we are. And then none of these will lose their reward. um

07:33.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

07:34.55
Nathan Pile
I guess in some ways I was just disappointed.

07:34.71
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, reward is mentioned it three times in this passage.

07:39.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah, but it was the last time that really bothered me.

07:39.67
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, yeah, yeah. maybe, Maybe the, again, maybe the reward is the life itself.

07:48.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

07:49.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

07:50.07
Nathan Pile
Maybe it is. And, and the, the righteous reward and the prophet reward, again, like, I didn't love it.

08:02.17
Nathan Pile
But it was that third time. just kind of felt yeah

08:12.25
Nathan Pile
like, cause I think welcome is a big deal. I don't know why I feel, well, I know why I feel this over the years. And, and it's one of those, it's one of the things that I, it's a part of my drum beat here at camp all the time of how do we, how do we be more welcoming everything from our signage to how smooth the road is coming in.

08:31.81
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm.

08:35.32
Nathan Pile
You know, like it's, it's that basic, but like if, if there's a welcome sign, we, you know, we we have a welcome sign at camp that says welcome, whatever. So we just had, we just had a group here. And so it said, welcome to that group and, and their name. So it's like,

08:52.86
Nathan Pile
people when they drive in the gate, because you know you're driving into the middle of the woods, it feels like there's a giant gate there, but like right after you pass through the gate, it says welcome. And then on the big dry erase marker board, it says to whoever the group is. so like

09:07.45
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

09:07.45
Nathan Pile
If you're coming and you see your group name, you're like, yeah, I'm at the right place. Like there's something about feeling like, okay, yeah, I'm here. And and I can navigate my way to the next, you know, and and on the welcome sign, it usually tells them where they have to go, you know, at the dining hall, at the main camp dining hall, usually it says, or at the Bower Sox Retreat Center. So it gives them some guidance of what's next, right? And then there's usually some kind of a welcome sign in that space too for them. So that again, they're like, yep, this is us. This is where we're supposed to be kind of a thing. So welcome's a big deal. and, And I guess welcome oftentimes for me as in is, is, is should be enough.

09:50.90
Nathan Pile
Like that idea of reward for it just makes me, it's not something I teach our staff. Like, sure, I guess technically I pay them at the end of the week.

10:05.69
Nathan Pile
So there's a reward for their salary for the for the time at camp.

10:06.39
Kevin Shock
Is that a reward? I don't know.

10:10.69
Nathan Pile
But it's not like, like I try to make it a part of our value system at camp that we do, that we welcome because that's who we are, God's people.

10:21.91
Nathan Pile
um

10:22.39
Kevin Shock
Right.

10:23.32
Nathan Pile
And so it's not about the reward.

10:23.48
Kevin Shock
okay

10:26.84
Nathan Pile
So yeah, it's just the transa-, transaction nature of this doesn't feel great to me. But yeah.

10:36.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:38.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:39.10
Nathan Pile
Anything else from you?

10:39.66
Kevin Shock
theres, Well, I'm just, I'm, I'm looking for looking for some context here in Matthew 10. Yeah. This comes right at the end of the chapter. He's doing a lot of teaching about, I guess, about the

10:58.23
Kevin Shock
the different

11:01.03
Kevin Shock
What's the word I want to say? not, Not relationship, not like human relationships, but like societal expectations on relationships. Because right before this, he's doing he has another uncomfortable section. When say he, I mean Jesus.

11:16.63
Kevin Shock
um When he talks, it's the section where he talks about, ah he's come to, not come to bring peace, but a sword. And to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

11:30.74
Kevin Shock
And one's foes will be members of one's own household. um And then whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. Yeah. Yeah.

11:42.65
Kevin Shock
but So then maybe maybe there's just a lot in this chapter that makes us uncomfortable.

11:47.59
Nathan Pile
10th chapter we just struggle with.

11:48.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, sometimes Jesus, I can't, I mean, I understand what Jesus is getting at when he says that stuff.

11:51.88
Nathan Pile
Matthew's 10th chapter of which we struggle.

11:59.67
Kevin Shock
um My initial reaction It's kind of to do like a yeah, but like, but this is what he means when he says it. And, and that doesn't, that like, that's my gut.

12:14.70
Kevin Shock
That's my gut reaction. And I don't feel like that's a good reaction to have because, um, I don't, I don't need to explain Jesus's intent behind something for other people, mainly because I don't know what Jesus's intent behind a lot of what he says is Um, uh, so yeah.

12:29.90
Nathan Pile
Right.

12:34.10
Nathan Pile
What do you think?

12:34.53
Kevin Shock
Uh,

12:34.78
Nathan Pile
what So we get prophets reward and we get righteous persons reward. What do those things mean?

12:41.86
Kevin Shock
huh

12:42.27
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

12:44.47
Kevin Shock
I, I don't know. I mean, a, a prophet's reward is usually to get killed.

12:49.56
Nathan Pile
Right. Like that's the, that was the thing that stuck out to me. Prophets usually didn't get rewards. They were usually persecuted and pushed out of town.

12:54.78
Kevin Shock
I mean...

12:58.24
Nathan Pile
Um, and,

12:59.64
Kevin Shock
I mean, so, yeah, right, by human beings, right? But but with God, like the thing about... um The thing about the prophets and a righteous person, they're like they're in a guaranteed relationship with God, I guess, is what I'm thinking of.

13:20.47
Kevin Shock
um

13:24.18
Kevin Shock
like There's no question about their relationship with God, I guess.

13:28.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

13:28.79
Kevin Shock
And so that, yeah, that that to me, yeah, yeah, there's...

13:31.32
Nathan Pile
So that's the real reward is that there's no, no question about your relationship with God.

13:37.11
Kevin Shock
Like, they're yeah, they're definitely... Like God is in their corner. Yeah.

13:46.74
Nathan Pile
Well, I guess if that's the reward, I feel better about it.

13:50.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I don't think it's like, I don't think it's like you get a prize or something. I, I mean, I, okay yeah, no, if, if we do, I have no, idea like I said, I have no idea what that prize is I, yeah

13:54.97
Nathan Pile
Big stuffed animal. No? no

14:04.80
Nathan Pile
God's love.

14:08.37
Kevin Shock
Well, and that, is yes, but okay, yes, and that's ah that's a great reward to have, but also God does not give love as a reward. God gives love because that's who God is.

14:20.46
Nathan Pile
Because everybody else got it. So now I feel like this is um Jesus tricking us because we already got to God's love.

14:29.72
Kevin Shock
no,

14:31.13
Nathan Pile
We already got the reward.

14:31.51
Kevin Shock
well. no, well, well

14:32.91
Nathan Pile
already get it. We get it free. We get it free.

14:36.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, gosh, geez. Yeah, now you're now you're getting into the the the dilemma of the Lutheran, which is... Or, or other Christians, too.

14:50.20
Kevin Shock
Yes, God gives the present for free, but you have to unwrap it. I, Like... Yeah, it...

14:59.86
Nathan Pile
welcoming others as the unwrapping of the gift.

15:03.32
Kevin Shock
Well, okay. yeah Yes. Well, right. No, I don't know what the unwrapping the gift is because you don't unwrap the gift. It's a gift. It's just, yeah. You just receive it. I, Yeah.

15:15.67
Kevin Shock
there's there's so much about, I, okay, now we're getting now maybe we're tapping into like the deep theological reasons that this unsettles us, is that we've we've always been taught and we've talked about that like all all of these things that come from God are grace. they're they're They're unmerited, but God gives them because God wants to give them. So any notion that we somehow earn them or that it's up to us to make the most of them. I mean, I i think that it is up to us to make the most of them, but that doesn't that doesn't negate the fact that we have just been given the gift, if that makes any sense.

15:59.38
Kevin Shock
I, Like this, this is a mystery that I think people have struggled with and will continue to struggle with explaining, understanding. I mean, some people are comfortable saying, yes, you have to play a part in your own salvation. Even Paul says, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. But for me, that's more like

16:23.61
Kevin Shock
like get, get hip to the fact that you have been saved and now you got to figure out what it means to live differently because of that.

16:33.65
Kevin Shock
Like, it's already a given. um This, to me, sounds like... this to we talk We talk in our tradition... Here, I'm going to end with saying this.

16:47.96
Kevin Shock
We talk in our tradition, because I could ramble on all day. We talk in our tradition about... Our relationship with God is a because-therefore relationship.

17:00.44
Kevin Shock
Because... God first loved us, therefore we love one another.

17:10.07
Kevin Shock
I mean, it comes right from John's gospel. I give you a new commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. like that's you know And and you could you could change that word to, I'm not suggesting you do change that word, but you could plug welcome right in there in the same way.

17:29.75
Kevin Shock
um the new commandment that you welcome one another as I have welcomed you. I think the reward tries to shift it into where we as human beings

17:43.83
Kevin Shock
are apt to go instinctually, and that is to make our relationship with God an if-then statement. If you welcome people, then God will give you the reward.

17:59.32
Kevin Shock
If you follow my commandments, then I will love you. If you say the sinner's prayer and accept Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior, then you will go to heaven.

18:21.36
Kevin Shock
It's problematic. it puts the, It puts the onus of the work on us whenever... Well, it puts the onus of the work on us, which good Lutheran theologians would say, it puts us in God's place.

18:36.62
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

18:37.62
Kevin Shock
as As Dr. Timothy Wengert, who was my Reformation history professor at seminary, would say, um when you If you spend all your life trying to climb the ladder to get to heaven, ah when you get there, the only God that you find is yourself.

19:00.55
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

19:02.87
Kevin Shock
And I think that's true. I think that's true.

19:10.61
Kevin Shock
So anyway, that's, that's why reward unsettles me. That's a really long thesis for why it unsettles me.

19:17.32
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:20.82
Nathan Pile
All right. Anything else with the first question?

19:23.38
Kevin Shock
No, let's move on to the second question.

19:26.31
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Okay.

19:27.61
Kevin Shock
um From Matthew 10. Whoever welcomes you welcomes me. Jesus said this, by the way. Whoever welcomes you welcomes me, and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.

19:38.83
Kevin Shock
Whoever welcomes a prophet in the name of a prophet will receive a prophet's reward. And whoever welcomes a righteous person in the name of a righteous person will receive the reward of the righteous. And whoever gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones in the name of a disciple, truly I tell you, none of these will lose their reward.

20:00.11
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

20:03.03
Nathan Pile
I think we're going to have, um, we make kids drink water every lunch and dinner, a glass of water before they can have juice or milk. So I think I'm going to make all of the cabin guides, all of the summer staff and all of the campers drink their cup of cold water in the name of a disciple.

20:26.71
Kevin Shock
What does that mean?

20:28.34
Nathan Pile
Um, that's what I feel called toward in this. Um,

20:31.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah, but what does that mean in the name of a disciple?

20:33.56
Nathan Pile
Well, that means they're not going to lose their...

20:34.84
Kevin Shock
Is that different from how they would normally drink it?

20:37.37
Nathan Pile
I don't know. that It seems like it here. But I don't want them to lose their reward. Whatever it is.

20:44.91
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Yeah,

20:46.36
Nathan Pile
So if I require them to drink in the name of a disciple, they have to say a disciple's name and then they can drink their water. I'm joking, by the way.

20:58.46
Kevin Shock
yeah I know you're joking.

20:59.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I was just letting the people at home know that I was joking. I knew you knew I was being sarcastic.

21:02.52
Kevin Shock
Okay.

21:03.92
Nathan Pile
I wasn't allowed to be sarcastic in the last episode, but this episode I'm allowed to be, Kevin said. so um

21:12.34
Nathan Pile
So, no, like, but obviously I feel called to the welcome piece. The end of the, the really, 40, like we should have just read verse 40. 41 and just bothers me, I guess, more today for whatever reason I the reward stuff the whoever gives even a cup of cold water now see I get the cup of cold water like that would be something special right like it was fresh from the well because that would be the only time it would be cold because once they pulled it up out of the well

21:44.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

21:47.13
Nathan Pile
So somebody made an extra effort to go get cold water from the well.

21:51.67
Kevin Shock
Oh, that's interesting.

21:51.74
Nathan Pile
Because once it would be up, it would warm up, right? It would be whatever the temperature is sitting outside, that's what your bucket of water's temperature is going to heat up to. So so there is to me, there's a specialness of the cup of cold water because it's written there, right?

22:08.93
Nathan Pile
It's written as whoever gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones in the name of a disciple. And we do that because we put ice in our water here at camp. So it's a cup of cold water.

22:22.62
Nathan Pile
um And we're giving it to little ones. The only thing we're missing is in, in the name of a disciple.

22:25.44
Kevin Shock
Good.

22:27.59
Nathan Pile
So we just need to shout out a name of the disciple and we're covered. I figure. um Yeah, it's the rest of it I can't under, like, it's, I don't know.

22:39.35
Nathan Pile
It still bothers me from our first discussion. um But I do feel called toward a welcome. And that welcome should go a little bit above and beyond like a cup of cold water would.

22:52.89
Nathan Pile
Something fresh. you you're doing You're doing something intentional for the guest. You've gone and retrieved water from the well because they have come.

23:04.89
Nathan Pile
And so it's a nice glass of cool water at 55 degrees because that's what the ground temperature usually is. And so it would be cooler than if it sat out in the 90 degree heat of the desert.

23:19.77
Nathan Pile
um So it would feel cool. So there's a, there's a, to me that feels as if we're the, that the person giving the gift is giving, giving the welcome is giving has has made some intention to make it,

23:41.60
Nathan Pile
um, make it a little extra, a little, a little bit more than ah just an ordinary welcome. they've They've done a little bit more. So, um,

23:55.10
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

23:56.47
Nathan Pile
So that's because, again, I, otherwise, I don't know what to do with a cup of cold water. Like that to me feels like it's, it's a little bit more because it's not going to sit cold. It's not going to sit there and stay cold. It's going to warm up.

24:09.05
Nathan Pile
So

24:13.96
Nathan Pile
I don't, I don't get all of the name dropping of the prophet and the righteous person and now the disciple. I don't get any of that in the midst of our welcome.

24:22.97
Kevin Shock
hey

24:23.74
Nathan Pile
But I get that I'm to welcome and in welcoming God, and welcoming Jesus, I welcome God. And, um and I guess I extrapolate that then to mean if I'm welcoming others, then I'm also welcoming Jesus and thereby I'm welcoming God.

24:43.35
Nathan Pile
But that's not really in the text.

24:47.77
Nathan Pile
but I feel called to welcome. And so what does that mean? What does that, what is, what, if I'm intentionally thinking about our welcome? So again, my context is camp, but if I'm talking about a congregation, what's my,

25:02.39
Nathan Pile
What do I want people to feel when they come in the door of a congregation? if I'm, If I'm the host at my house, I'm having a dinner party. What is it that I want people to... How do I want them to know that they're welcome in my space?

25:16.89
Nathan Pile
What is that? what what am I, What am I intentionally doing or creating to help them feel that way when they walk in the door?

25:27.13
Nathan Pile
And that could be all sorts of things. Like I'm just...

25:33.39
Nathan Pile
rolling it around in my, you know, when I was a parish pastor, one of the things that our congregation did was that we put a big picture board up of all of the members of the congregation with their names on it.

25:44.92
Nathan Pile
It was a way, because we didn't wear name tags in our congregation. It wasn't something that they did.

25:49.53
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

25:50.46
Nathan Pile
We talked about it once or twice, never really got enough off the ground. But one of the ways that they felt like this would be helpful was if you're a new person and you've come a couple of times and you're wondering who, what that person's name is, or you met them once and you just can't remember, well, you could walk over to this giant board and and figure out their name.

26:10.46
Nathan Pile
um because they had their picture and their family name and their kids names and so you could find out everybody's name in the family by looking at the little poster there so um and so that became a way of getting to know the people in the life of the congregation sure that we also had like a directory but usually didn't give my parish directory until they were actual members of the church so how else could you help people know each other's names was kind of things, I think name tags like if I was a pastor now I'd probably push that a little bit more for a name tag kind of a thing um to help um somebody else feel connected um that we instead of making the new person wear the name tag we the people that are there every week we wear the name tag um

26:59.99
Nathan Pile
That was something that they did in Florida, the church that I was in Florida they did it that way. When I served down in Naples, people had their own name tags.

27:10.74
Nathan Pile
And so they would wear them to church. um

27:16.86
Nathan Pile
but So I think being intentional about our welcome is important. And so even though I bemoaned this text, I actually thought I was going to like this text more than I am liking it in the midst of our conversation.

27:27.76
Nathan Pile
but Because I like welcome. like The first part of the the first verse makes me like, let's talk about the welcome.

27:31.10
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:34.26
Nathan Pile
But the other verses have stymied me today, surprisingly, more so than then I want them to. ah So that's what my...

27:44.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:45.34
Nathan Pile
My two pieces would be, what's ah toward what is God calling you in this text?

27:50.42
Kevin Shock
um I don't, I there was something I felt really strongly about responding to um when you were talking and then you moved on to the name tags thing so now I can't remember what it was um which is fine uh um

28:02.73
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

28:08.38
Nathan Pile
I hope you remember it so that we can get our reward.

28:11.13
Kevin Shock
oh oh yeah, yeah, no, I remember it. I, I, I find it interesting that you um see the cup of cold water. I mean, it totally makes sense the way you explain it, but to see the cup of cold water as a special thing, um, because the word even is in there, even a cup of cold water.

28:31.22
Kevin Shock
I, I, take that as being like the bare minimum, but, but I see that, uh, I see that there could be an even lower bar than,

28:35.81
Nathan Pile
Sure.

28:44.82
Kevin Shock
um It could be a cup of room temperature water.

28:46.07
Nathan Pile
Just a cup of water.

28:48.42
Kevin Shock
um

28:48.41
Nathan Pile
h Boy, that tastes delicious.

28:53.36
Kevin Shock
I'm one of those people, I don't like ice in my water. I think it's No, no,

28:58.07
Nathan Pile
So like when you were a kid, did you drink out of the garden hose that was out in the yard and in the sun? Like, and you were like, oh, this is the best water ever. It's like lukewarm pouring into your mouth.

29:07.16
Kevin Shock
no no no no

29:10.49
Nathan Pile
So you just don't like the ice. You want it to be cold. You just don't want the ice there.

29:14.42
Kevin Shock
I mean, I would say the water I drink is usually cold, but yeah, I don't, I don't like ice cold water.

29:19.63
Nathan Pile
Oh.

29:20.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I like tap cold water. Mm-hmm.

29:23.97
Nathan Pile
Tap cold. right

29:27.45
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, anyway. No, if the garden hose is sitting out in the sun, that's warm water. That's not...

29:33.46
Nathan Pile
but Right, like it's gross.

29:35.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's warm.

29:35.96
Nathan Pile
dusting

29:36.32
Kevin Shock
It's not it's not even lukewarm. It's warm. Um...

29:42.42
Kevin Shock
ah Anyway, um the thing I'm called to, I mean, welcome, I guess, would be a part of it. and we're We're getting, maybe we're getting lost in the, in all the nuance of the language.

29:55.10
Kevin Shock
I don't know the, the, the reward part of it, which doesn't seem to make much sense to us.

29:55.57
Nathan Pile
I'm definitely I'm definitely lost in the language, I would agree.

30:02.58
Kevin Shock
um I, like, I wonder if, uh, So I did read some other translations about this. or Translations.

30:14.81
Nathan Pile
while I was While I was bemoaning it, he went and looked to see what else should I buy what else should I have selected because Nathan's driving me crazy.

30:17.08
Kevin Shock
No, no, no, no. Before we even started.

30:22.58
Kevin Shock
No, no, no, no.

30:23.44
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

30:23.86
Kevin Shock
I read other translations, and I guess I didn't really think much of reward at the time, but i probably should have.

30:23.86
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

30:29.54
Kevin Shock
um But the NRSVUE is the only one that uses welcome.

30:37.50
Kevin Shock
The NET and the CEB both use receive. Whoever receives a profit in the prophet's name will get their reward.

30:47.11
Nathan Pile
Wow.

30:47.98
Kevin Shock
um the um The message, because I even looked there, uses accept.

30:55.83
Nathan Pile
wow

30:59.99
Kevin Shock
um Welcome, I think, is a much better word. And so, oh

31:11.35
Kevin Shock
anyway, I, um, welcome to me is, yeah, I don't know. I like it better than receive. I like it better than I like it better than accept. Like, accept sounds to me like you're tolerating somebody.

31:26.01
Kevin Shock
um But I will say that the CEB also, or no, not the CEB, the message, I think it was, um

31:35.90
Kevin Shock
talked about, said something like Eugene Peterson puts it in these, you know, does a lot of commentary, takes, takes a lot of takes a lot of poetic license with this translating and and ends up putting a lot of commentary into it, which I don't always like.

31:45.18
Nathan Pile
translating commentary translating yeah

31:53.02
Kevin Shock
um And frankly, I wasn't a huge fan of, but maybe in this scenario, it helps a little bit. um He translates it more as... whoever accepts a prophet in the name of a prophet is as good as that prophet.

32:09.62
Kevin Shock
Or whoever accepts a righteous person in the name of that righteous person is as good as that righteous person.

32:11.19
Nathan Pile
hmm

32:17.15
Kevin Shock
Which that to me, I don't, I don't know, I don't know how faithful that is to the original text, but I like that better than reward. like I but like and, and, And I can see how you could interpret this

32:26.77
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

32:32.50
Kevin Shock
as okay you're putting yourself in the place of a disciple you're putting yourself in the place of a righteous person you're putting yourself in the place of a prophet um but then where it starts is that you're putting yourself in not, not displacing, but you're, I mean, in none of those situations are you displacing the other person, but you're, you're making yourself one with God.

32:56.38
Kevin Shock
Like if, if the, whoever welcomes me in my name welcomes the one who sent me, like there is a sense of unity about this. And I, and I think that, uh,

33:10.46
Kevin Shock
I think that's important to lift up. um I, So I'm saying all that to say that I think I'm, think this is calling me to welcome people with humility and in full recognition of who those people are.

33:34.29
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

33:37.98
Kevin Shock
Like I, you know, I, I believe it's hard to live out, but I do believe that everyone everyone is formed in the image of God, and therefore everyone carries a dignity with them, that they're not always shown. But um but this is, you know, even the...

33:57.85
Kevin Shock
ah Jesus here, it sounds like he's saying, you know, you, you can think about like being really nice to the prophets and being really nice to righteous people. But even if you're, even if you're nice to the people and nice isn't the right word, I'm just being facetious with this.

34:12.47
Kevin Shock
But even if you're nice to the people who are just trying to learn from me and aren't very important at all. Like that's, that's just as important as welcoming a righteous person or a prophet.

34:25.27
Kevin Shock
like ah So I, I think for me, as I unpack this a little bit more, this is calling me toward being welcoming to anyone because anyone carries with them some image of God and some form of dignity as a human being and a creation of God.

34:49.82
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I appreciate your reflection of, of that piece of dignity. Like every now and then I notice the,

35:01.11
Nathan Pile
and I've used it more often, but I don't know, sometime probably when I was in the parish. So that's now 14 years ago or so. And it was about the time you were writing prayers for the Sundays and seasons. And so it might've been you that wrote it, but ah there were prayers sometimes that talk about the dignity that that as we,

35:23.18
Nathan Pile
as we're seeking to do justice or we're seeking to do welcome or you know that we should be thinking about the dignity of all um that god-given dignity and and that was powerful when i remember reading it you know 15 years ago or more and and that has ah found its way into other times that i've written prayers to make sure that we're considering that and so um being called to welcome that that brings with it that um inclusive each each every part of creation every every human being every um has a part of dignity that has been stowed upon it by god and so how do we live giving that dignity to that creation um

36:17.72
Nathan Pile
Again, it's just something I appreciated there as you were talking about that. how do we how do we How do we make that our as a ah part of our welcome, recognizing that that God has made each thing with dignity?

36:33.82
Nathan Pile
How do we show that respect? So.

36:37.30
Kevin Shock
Well, right. And that, I mean, that's really what welcome is about. is showing respect to people who come into our presence. Right. I mean,

36:53.09
Nathan Pile
Right.

36:55.58
Nathan Pile
But it gets into that word that you didn't like earlier, acceptance.

37:01.01
Nathan Pile
Didn't like the translation of acceptance.

37:02.65
Kevin Shock
the, ah no, the only, the only reason I don't like acceptance is because I think it sounds weak.

37:07.41
Nathan Pile
Oh.

37:08.76
Kevin Shock
I like it's, it's to me, it's the lowest bar. Like, um, um,

37:16.60
Kevin Shock
I'm trying to think. When I was in college, I, um

37:24.54
Kevin Shock
there were there was a bumper sticker that was popular in our... Now I'm not going to get it right. I can't remember. now, Now I'm not remembering exactly where it was because I think that the bumper sticker actually said celebrate diversity.

37:41.05
Kevin Shock
But I could be confusing it with... um bumper stickers that exist today versus ones that existed back in the 1990s. I don't know. There was one, though, that that talked about tolerance.

37:55.54
Nathan Pile
yeah

37:56.15
Kevin Shock
And it never quite sat well with me. And then I finally figured out why it sat well with me. Because I don't want to be i don't want to be tolerated. i want to be loved. Like, tolerance tolerance sounds like

38:06.30
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah

38:08.86
Kevin Shock
Like I'm, I'm just not going to be completely rude to you. Like, that's what tolerance is. I'm going to avoid you. I'm not, you know, you leave me alone.

38:19.67
Kevin Shock
I'll leave you alone. That's tolerance. That does not sound like a, that does not sound like a good value in my, in my mind.

38:21.82
Nathan Pile
All right. Right.

38:25.50
Nathan Pile
Right.

38:26.74
Kevin Shock
Um, so.

38:27.16
Nathan Pile
And when I can't tolerate you, I'm going to spend even less time with you so that I can tolerate you.

38:32.86
Kevin Shock
Or, or worse, or I'm going to harm you. I mean that, yeah. Um, Yeah, tolerance just sounds like such a low level thing.

38:44.00
Kevin Shock
um And yeah, and and I think for me, acceptance has the same kind of connotation.

38:44.33
Nathan Pile
The low bar.

38:50.98
Kevin Shock
So that's the only reason I don't like acceptance. I mean, I think it's good that people accept one another for who they are. But it's different than welcoming. Acceptance is different than welcoming someone, I think.

39:09.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, acceptance is more like, can I get you anything? Would you like a cup of gold water? Welcome is proactive. I personally love your, your sign at camp.

39:24.38
Kevin Shock
I, I think it feels good to come through the gate of that camp and then to immediately ahead of you see a sign that says,

39:25.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

39:35.13
Kevin Shock
welcome to this particular group. it makes It makes you feel like you're a part I think it makes me feel like I'm a part of a community there.

39:44.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

39:45.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

39:45.14
Nathan Pile
Right.

39:46.81
Kevin Shock
and, And it's very, it's also, it's also nice. It's very helpful, you know, to have directions like, you know, head to the dining hall, go to the Bower Sock Center. But, um but it's, yeah, it makes you feel good. Like, yeah, like, hey, this, this is who I am a part of this weekend or this visit to camp. And yeah, it's, it's definitely person focused. I feel like the welcome sign is.

40:15.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, that's the goal, right?

40:17.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

40:18.17
Nathan Pile
and, And again, it's that I appreciate you kind of, you know, splitting hairs a little bit with the some of the logistic stuff of acceptance, tolerance.

40:32.38
Nathan Pile
and Like there does there does seem to be limitations to that. And so this idea of welcome is a bigger thing. That idea of, of giving Every creature, every creation, its own dignity is a little bit more than just accepting it.

40:52.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

40:53.06
Nathan Pile
It's bigger than that. you know the, Again, the idea of love is bigger than just acceptance. Yeah,

41:00.89
Kevin Shock
Yes. Much. Yeah.

41:03.16
Nathan Pile
yeah. So...

41:08.47
Nathan Pile
All right. Are we doing this the third time that we were at? Because we're getting close to that.

41:11.68
Kevin Shock
that's, That is where we're at

41:12.81
Nathan Pile
We're going to do this. We're getting close to that third question already. So if not already standing on it.

41:16.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

41:21.03
Nathan Pile
Is this my turn? Yeah, it's my turn to read.

41:24.10
Kevin Shock
Yep.

41:26.22
Nathan Pile
We're just going to read verse 40 because I don't like the rest of it. No, I'm just teasing. So that's chapter 10, verse 40 through 42.

41:31.00
Kevin Shock
ah

41:34.78
Nathan Pile
through forty two Whoever welcomes you welcomes me, and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. Whoever welcomes a prophet in the name of a prophet will receive a prophet's reward. And whoever welcomes a righteous person in the name of a righteous person will receive the reward of the righteous.

41:53.59
Nathan Pile
And whoever gives even a cup of cold water to the one of these little ones in the name of a disciple, truly I tell you, none of these will lose their reward.

42:10.78
Nathan Pile
and Kevin, how might you begin a life of welcome?

42:17.34
Kevin Shock
I, I hear I'm going to hearken back to our last episode. um

42:25.91
Kevin Shock
ah think Think about myself less.

42:30.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

42:30.97
Kevin Shock
I think there's a, think there's something in that notion when we're considering welcome that we're,

42:40.34
Kevin Shock
I, I think that's the reason I like the word welcome more than I like acceptance or even receiving is because ah welcome sounds more active to me. The other two sound more passive, maybe not receiving, maybe receiving is something that, but, um but accepting sounds more passive.

42:58.23
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

42:59.48
Kevin Shock
you know, there's a difference of, there's a difference between, the,

43:06.58
Kevin Shock
it's, It's slight, but there's a difference between someone coming into your house and you giving them a cup of cold water versus someone coming into your house and saying, can I get you anything?

43:22.23
Kevin Shock
But, but I mean, this just, I mean, do you see the subtle difference? It's just it's more active.

43:25.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's a subtle, but, but right, you're, you're already doing it.

43:26.39
Kevin Shock
It feels...

43:28.70
Nathan Pile
You're not waiting for them to, like, who wouldn't want a glass of cold water?

43:28.86
Kevin Shock
it feels

43:32.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it feels, it feels different. And, and um you know, maybe, okay, maybe, maybe you give them your drink menu and, you know, it's that like instead of just assuming they want in cold water.

43:42.99
Kevin Shock
but ah um

43:44.66
Nathan Pile
Well, we got to make sure we don't put ice in yours. Otherwise, you're not going to be thankful about it.

43:49.37
Kevin Shock
No, I'll, I'll still like, I'll still receive it.

43:50.68
Nathan Pile
So you'll be like, oh, God, ice, ice.

43:52.01
Kevin Shock
I'm, the, The reward is in the welcome itself, Nathan.

43:55.90
Nathan Pile
Okay, so you'll just let it sit there on the table and collect condensation.

43:58.38
Kevin Shock
No, I'll drink it. I'll even drink it. I'll even drink it. I remember one time. Oh, my gosh. This is going to be even more meaningful to you because you know who I'm going to talk about.

44:09.50
Kevin Shock
um You know, John Dye.

44:12.89
Nathan Pile
John Dye the English guy.

44:14.39
Kevin Shock
John Dye, the English guy who worked at camp the year that Nathan and I were together at camp.

44:14.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Classic. Classic.

44:20.60
Kevin Shock
um

44:21.34
Nathan Pile
When we met, beginning of a beautiful friendship.

44:22.39
Kevin Shock
And who. Who was by all by all accounts, one of the wildest people I've ever met, I think. Like, I really...

44:33.35
Kevin Shock
he he like

44:34.14
Nathan Pile
I don't know how he got here. Yeah, a yeah I'm with you.

44:36.50
Kevin Shock
I don't know how he made his way to Sequanota.

44:36.78
Nathan Pile
I'm with

44:38.68
Kevin Shock
I don't. I can only presume it was the Holy Spirit, but I'm not sure was the, the Holy Spirit.

44:44.29
Nathan Pile
you.

44:45.58
Kevin Shock
It was a spirit, maybe. I don't know.

44:47.13
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

44:48.18
Kevin Shock
um He really didn't have any, like...

44:54.71
Kevin Shock
ah Anyway, we can tell stories about John Dye later. ah One time... That following

45:02.49
Nathan Pile
When you're with Kevin and I in person, you just ask us about John Dye. We'll tell you any story you want hear.

45:07.11
Kevin Shock
will tell you lots of stories about John Dye.

45:07.48
Nathan Pile
Oh gosh. There's a whole bunch of

45:10.04
Kevin Shock
ah Probably even some of the ones that we haven't talked about yet to each other, but because we probably all have our own John Dye stories.

45:15.23
Nathan Pile
them.

45:17.72
Kevin Shock
This is one of my own John Dye stories. um he ah Right after I worked at camp, I... um I left to go to Germany to study abroad for a year.

45:32.41
Nathan Pile
But

45:32.76
Kevin Shock
and, And during my semester break, I was traveling to

45:42.42
Kevin Shock
visit some friends who were studying in England. And they were studying at the University of Leeds, which Leeds is where John Dye is from. um And so I, somehow, I don't even remember how I got in touch with John Dye,

45:57.37
Kevin Shock
and uh and there was some a little bit of confusion about like what my actual arrival time would be and things like that but yeah, he, he made space for me it was really nice and you know and we like we hung out. I'm pretty sure that we um that um I was involved in a drug deal of some sort at while I was there, um, there was, there was some, There was some weirdness, ah but, but I had a lot of fun and and honestly, like not ah not illicit fun, like, like pretty, you know, decent fun.

46:31.00
Nathan Pile
just normal, normal, healthy fun.

46:32.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah, just like, yeah, hanging around. Well, I don't know if it was healthy, but hanging around. We probably drank a few too many pints, but hanging around and, and doing you know getting to know a side of leads that my university friends would not have shown me.

46:37.43
Nathan Pile
There

46:46.05
Nathan Pile
we go.

46:46.81
Kevin Shock
Let me say that as much.

46:48.26
Nathan Pile
There we go.

46:48.95
Kevin Shock
But I was ah one morning when I was there.

46:49.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

46:52.02
Kevin Shock
So he was living with his mom at the time, which I guess was normal because we were like around university age. um And ah, and I came downstairs and she had made breakfast, which was really great of her.

47:04.75
Kevin Shock
And she asked me if I wanted a cup of tea. I wasn't a big tea drinker at the time. So I said, oh, no, thanks. OK. Are you sure I can't get you a cup of tea?

47:17.78
Kevin Shock
Nathan, she asked me probably five or six times before I finally just said, yeah, you know, I will have a cup of tea.

47:27.26
Nathan Pile
Her sheer persistence.

47:27.29
Kevin Shock
And her, her response to me, I will never forget this.

47:29.07
Nathan Pile
Well, now.

47:33.13
Kevin Shock
I pray until the day I die. Her response to me was, well, if you wanted one, you should have just said so.

47:44.09
Kevin Shock
ah Well, the fact of the matter, Mrs. Dye, is that I did not want one, but it felt like I had to take one because I didn't understand some kind of cultural thing that was happening here.

47:56.78
Kevin Shock
Oh, my God.

48:01.95
Nathan Pile
All

48:02.50
Kevin Shock
So anyway, that's all to say, Nathan. If someone puts ice in my water, I'm just going to drink it, I'm just going to drink it.

48:07.31
Nathan Pile
right. All right.

48:08.91
Kevin Shock
I'm not going to argue about it, but that, that, well, there's, there's probably some, you know, some wisdom of, of welcome to mine out of that story too, but I don't know what it is right now.

48:09.09
Nathan Pile
I'm just going to drink

48:20.16
Nathan Pile
it. All right.

48:21.49
Kevin Shock
I'm not sure what risk, what reward, uh, John's mom was going for at that moment, but in any case, um

48:28.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

48:31.22
Kevin Shock
ah I

48:31.51
Nathan Pile
I love it.

48:33.02
Kevin Shock
I don't even remember what I was So how do I begin a life of welcome? By um by, by thinking, looking, looking to the needs of others.

48:36.25
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

48:40.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

48:41.90
Nathan Pile
Looking to the needs of others.

48:43.03
Kevin Shock
I think it's a life of welcome. And that doesn't have to be, um or, or even thinking less of myself. That doesn't even have to be like welcoming someone into my home. That's just how I, how I move through the world can be a life of welcome.

48:58.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um

49:02.78
Nathan Pile
Well, I appreciate, yeah, was going to I appreciate, uh, both your reflection of welcome, but I've also now learned that if I really want you to do something, just have to keep pounding and eventually you're going to relent.

49:02.94
Kevin Shock
forcing, Forcing a cup of tea on someone until they take it

49:16.31
Nathan Pile
And then, uh, you know,

49:16.98
Kevin Shock
the it. I don't know. I was, I was only 20 then. I might it might be different now.

49:22.97
Nathan Pile
you might push back now. Well, it'd be different to if it's your buddy, then, then if it's a stranger, uh,

49:24.28
Kevin Shock
might push back a little bit more.

49:29.16
Kevin Shock
That's right. If you really want me to do something, um have your mom ask me. That's, that's That will, yeah.

49:32.83
Nathan Pile
It's there it is. There's, there's probably the deep. Yeah.

49:36.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah, there there will be there will be more deference to Mrs.

49:39.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, cause if, if your mom asked me, if Deb asked me to do something, dude, I'm doing it.

49:40.71
Kevin Shock
mrs Barbara Pile than there will be to...

49:44.55
Nathan Pile
You like anytime.

49:44.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe we shouldn't say this too loud on our podcast.

49:49.91
Nathan Pile
That's probably true. Oh, I'll just ask me.

49:52.79
Kevin Shock
I mean, I'm pretty sure my mom just heard you say you would do anything for her. So, yeah.

49:55.96
Nathan Pile
That's very true. that's it But I, but I, so,

49:57.35
Kevin Shock
ah

49:59.16
Nathan Pile
so um

50:00.50
Kevin Shock
Is this coming, is this episode coming up before or after the Tend festival? That's something we should pay attention. I think it's coming out the Monday of the Tend festival.

50:06.35
Nathan Pile
Oh, this is probably the, yeah, I did think about the same thing, but we're sometimes we're out so far in advance that I'm, I forget, but you're right.

50:11.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

50:14.27
Nathan Pile
So if you haven't, I'm sure there's probably still just a little bit of space. Um, if you haven't registered for Tend and you're thinking maybe you'd like to, you can absolutely do it. Call the camp and, um, we can get it.

50:24.66
Kevin Shock
You can, you can.

50:26.58
Nathan Pile
we can you in.

50:27.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah, you can't.

50:28.38
Nathan Pile
Um,

50:28.42
Kevin Shock
However, the primary reason I was saying that is because there's a good chance that my mom may be listening to this in the car on her way to seeing you. And then she will come with the come to camp with the knowledge that you would do anything for her.

50:35.87
Nathan Pile
Oh, and then she'll be, that she'll be ready to, oh yeah, I didn't think about it that way, but you're right. Oh, I could be in trouble all weekend.

50:42.14
Kevin Shock
ah That's why I asked the question.

50:45.27
Nathan Pile
Oh, Nathan.

50:46.46
Kevin Shock
ah You better be ready for a welcome. I know you'll be ready for welcome when it comes to the 10 Festival.

50:50.63
Nathan Pile
I'll be ready. but We'll be ready. So, um,

50:53.30
Kevin Shock
What about you, buddy? What's, uh, how, um, uh, how might you begin a life of welcome?

50:59.26
Nathan Pile
I think, I think my, my first response when I heard the question is, is still the same. You just got to start doing it.

51:07.20
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

51:07.77
Nathan Pile
Like our welcome at camp has grown over the years.

51:07.98
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

51:12.18
Nathan Pile
We just had to start someplace.

51:14.82
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

51:15.06
Nathan Pile
And so we did. we just, We just started someplace and then we tried to get better at it and then get better at it and get better at it So to begin it, I think you just have to start to say, I want to make this a priority and do it.

51:28.76
Nathan Pile
Again, it, it goes back to that idea of intention. if it's, If you're going to do it, you're going be intentional about it and then you do it. And, and like our, our signs, when I started here 14 years ago, the signs weren't what I would consider to be what they are now today. The, the welcome that we, we started back then wasn't, like we started just with dry erase marker boards like leaning against trees.

51:59.61
Kevin Shock
Sure.

51:59.70
Nathan Pile
So there wasn't a, there wasn't a place where the sign went and landed and was always, it was, oh, they're coming. And so we're going to put a welcome sign right here and we just lean it against the tree. And sometimes the wind would blow and blow it over. And so you'd have to go back up and put the sign back and lean it back against the tree in some way, shape or form. But, but it was our way of saying, we're just going to start to do this and, and we're going to get better at it. You know, our thing was,

52:24.73
Nathan Pile
there's There's a couple of different roads on camp. And so there's places where you could turn off and it takes you someplace where you there's nothing happening. And so we had to get better at sending people towards main camp and, um, and those kinds of things. And so we got better. We put red signs in the yard area and the and around the property that said,

52:42.87
Nathan Pile
specific direction kinds of things. Now we have to remember when we're out at the big sign to say, go to main camp or, you our main camp dining hall so that there's some key words that help lead them to that place. But then once they get there, then we want them to have like for summer camp, we make all of our summer staff every week, make a welcome sign for their cabin. Because when I'm, when you're a camper and you're walking to that cabin front, that first door of the cabin, and you see your name on the cabin,

53:08.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:09.68
Nathan Pile
I belong here.

53:09.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:10.18
Nathan Pile
This is where I'm supposed to come to.

53:11.51
Kevin Shock
Right.

53:11.62
Nathan Pile
This is where I belong.

53:12.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:12.30
Nathan Pile
They know I'm coming.

53:13.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:13.69
Nathan Pile
Like a little bit, just little things like that help us. And so how, if we're going to do it, we just need to say we're going to do it and then we get started and then we'll get better at it. um But we can't wait until we say, like we had said, well, let's wait a couple of years until we have the money to put the signs in the ground. Let's wait a couple of years until, you know, this thing happened. No, we just gonna need to start doing it and you'll get better at it.

53:37.72
Nathan Pile
And when the funds come that you can do whatever it is you want to do, you'll, you'll do it. b So I think that's my response of how might you begin? Well, you just have to do it. You just have to begin.

53:50.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:51.26
Nathan Pile
And, and in a, and that's, but we're kind of talking about organizationally, but for me as a human being, how do I live a life of welcome?

53:59.31
Nathan Pile
Well, I just need to start to figure out what do I want people? If I want people to feel welcome when they're in my presence, what is it that I have to do? I probably want to find out what name they want to be called.

54:10.10
Nathan Pile
And, and then I use that name, um you know, and, you know, pronouns or what, you know, all of those pieces get to know the person that you're talking to.

54:15.16
Kevin Shock
yeah

54:20.54
Nathan Pile
And that helps them to feel welcome. It doesn't need to have to be the first couple of things that, you know, but you can say, hey, what do you want to go by? Hey, you know, pleasure to meet you. I'm Nathan. what, what, ah, what, What do I call you?

54:35.54
Nathan Pile
finding ways to figure out what makes people comfortable. It, it takes a little bit more thought to do, to to practice it, to get it right.

54:45.88
Nathan Pile
um Not to get it right, to, to, to get better at it, maybe.

54:50.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. yeah

54:51.48
Nathan Pile
um Because being intentional, doing intentional welcome is a skill. it's not, You're just not going to be good at it just because you want to be good at it. you're gonna, You have to get better at it. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to put your foot...

55:04.70
Nathan Pile
into the mud a couple of times and, and end up with a wet sock and a wet, you know, and, and dirt on your face or whatever, you're going be embarrassed and you just have to say, Ooh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to, um, to do it that way.

55:19.09
Nathan Pile
I, what, what I really wanted was for you to feel welcome. And so, you know, you apologize and you back up and you try again.

55:29.05
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's amazing to me. Like you can tell whenever.

55:38.41
Kevin Shock
I'm trying to think, I used to talk to people in my first congregation about welcome. I can't remember the, maybe it was being nice versus being welcoming.

55:50.02
Kevin Shock
I don't know.

55:50.56
Nathan Pile
I

55:50.82
Kevin Shock
Well, welcoming welcome takes forethought, I think.

55:55.04
Nathan Pile
agree.

55:55.67
Kevin Shock
Um. because you're anticipating what the needs of someone else might be. Like, you know, you go into a, you go into a new worship space and like, there's so much that's unfamiliar, um, from the bulletin to the order of worship to the hymnal.

56:15.48
Kevin Shock
And it's hard for people, especially if people have never been in or have hardly been in a church at all, for them to navigate, like worship is not a welcoming thing. Worship is for insiders.

56:29.04
Nathan Pile
hmm

56:29.37
Kevin Shock
And I think that we, because we haven't, because we're just now getting people who maybe have been away from the church for a generation or two back into the church, it's hard for us to anticipate those needs.

56:44.66
Kevin Shock
um But I think if we stop and think about it, it's it's not all, it's not really that hard. Like just imagine you walk into a church that you've never been into before. You don't know where to sit. You don't know anything about like the, the mood or the personality or the culture of the congregation. You're looking at, ah you know, a book or a bulletin that's unfamiliar to you. Like what would your needs be in that situation? And then you can better anticipate the needs of somebody else whenever they come into your place.

57:14.78
Kevin Shock
um

57:14.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

57:15.77
Kevin Shock
And a lot of times, the easiest way to do it is to sit down beside somebody ah and, and guide them.

57:21.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

57:24.54
Kevin Shock
And, and, you know, and even if even turn to somebody and say, hey, if you have any questions about anything, I'm right here. like that that's, That's all that you have to do, really.

57:37.40
Kevin Shock
um And might it be a different worship experience for you because you do that? Yes, you might not be able to like just tend to yourself and pay attention to yourself through the whole thing. But it might be a, it might be a good experience for you to do that.

57:54.90
Kevin Shock
To be looking out for what someone else needs in the midst of that kind of scenario. Anyway, that's yeah.

58:08.50
Nathan Pile
Any other thoughts?

58:10.74
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. But I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of other people on welcome and how, how you've been welcomed or how you have welcomed others.

58:16.60
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

58:20.88
Kevin Shock
um I would be interested to hear some of that stuff. um But as we're as you're looking at other texts maybe to engage during this week, here are some options. Jeremiah chapter 28 verses 5 through 9 is the test of a true prophet.

58:38.04
Kevin Shock
maybe it's, Maybe it's being welcoming. No, I don't think it is. It's not. ah um Psalm 89 verses 1 through 4 and 15 through 18. Your love, O Lord, forever will I sing.

58:50.68
Kevin Shock
If you want to dive back into Romans 6, there's another chance to do that. Romans 6 verse 12 through 23. No longer under law, but under grace.

59:01.75
Kevin Shock
And then our... semi-continuous readings that are looking at the broad strokes in Hebrew scripture throughout the summer. Genesis 22 verses 1 through 14 is the testing of Abraham and Psalm 13 is, I trust in your unfailing love, oh Lord.

59:21.05
Kevin Shock
As I said, um, we are eager to hear your reflections on welcome, either as a giver or a recipient of that welcome. And I appreciate, Nathan, that you and I were uncomfortable with this text at the beginning and took some time to unpack it so that we understood it for ourselves a little bit better.

59:37.84
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

59:41.56
Kevin Shock
Friends, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

59:45.22
Nathan Pile
And peace.