S4 Episode 36: Psalm 145:8-14

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you bless God?

Additional texts:

Zechariah 9:9-12

Romans 7:15-25a

Matthew 11:16-19, 25-30

Genesis 24:34-38, 42-49, 58-67

Psalm 45:10-17

Song of Solomon 2:8-13 (alternate)

Transcript

00:03.51
Nathan Pile
Welcome back everybody to TEND. Kevin and I recently have been on a binge of movie beginnings to our podcast and so today I think the quote that feels right for me is "all right, all right, all right."

00:21.59
Kevin Shock
That's a, that's a common thing that you say. Yeah.

00:26.78
Nathan Pile
It is, it is, it is. do you know what that movie is?

00:27.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:30.33
Kevin Shock
I can't even remember. I know it's Matthew McConaughey.

00:32.73
Nathan Pile
Yes, it's Matthew McConaughey.

00:32.77
Kevin Shock
Is it "Dazed and Confused"?

00:34.53
Nathan Pile
I don't even remember what the movie is, to be honest with you.

00:36.28
Kevin Shock
I think it's "Dazed and Confused," which really is a classic American movie.

00:38.10
Nathan Pile
Oh, it is Dazed and Confused. It is dazed and confused. It is. um Though I'm not dazed or confused today. I'm tired, but I'm not dazed and confused.

00:50.42
Kevin Shock
ah

00:50.58
Nathan Pile
so but

00:51.45
Kevin Shock
yeah feel I feel the same way.

00:52.68
Nathan Pile
So I might be dazed and confused, tired, tired, dazed and confused. But I'm not Matthew McConaughey in "Dazed and Confused," dazed and confused.

01:04.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's, that's good because he does not really have a very nice character in that movie.

01:04.89
Nathan Pile
So...

01:09.18
Nathan Pile
in that yeah In that movie, he's... yeah But he does get to say, all right, all right, right.

01:14.80
Kevin Shock
He does get to say that. ah

01:18.71
Nathan Pile
and the And the tone, the the up and... yeah just It's perfect. It's beautiful. I love it. All right. ah So we're doing episode 36 here today, Kevin.

01:33.50
Nathan Pile
Typically, this would be about halfway of our year.

01:37.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think we're probably past halfway of our year.

01:42.90
Nathan Pile
Usually we do like 53, 54, 52. Oh, you're

01:45.43
Kevin Shock
Well, right. And this is 36, which is half of 72. know. Yeah.

01:49.59
Nathan Pile
right. Oops. It's because we did so many at, at Easter.

01:51.60
Kevin Shock
eyed up

01:53.50
Nathan Pile
It's because we did so many of the Easter that I'm confused.

01:55.45
Kevin Shock
We only did two extras. We are, I mean, when you think that we start, like, like the year started back at the end of November. So we're, yeah, we're, it's hard to believe we're recording for the end of June already.

02:04.59
Nathan Pile
did. Yeah, yeah. Well, okay. Then we're over halfway. And that makes me that that makes me feel good. That makes me feel like, yeah, we're well past halfway. That's nice.

02:18.36
Kevin Shock
We are, yep.

02:18.49
Nathan Pile
That makes me feel better.

02:19.75
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

02:21.18
Nathan Pile
So ah today, as I said on the 36th episode, Kevin and I are going to look at Psalm 145, verses 8 through 14.

02:32.88
Nathan Pile
Kevin and I are going to read it from the new Revised Standard Version, updated edition translation. and And we're going to look at it using our three questions as our lens. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how do you bless God?

02:55.78
Kevin Shock
Amen.

03:00.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I guess I'd tag you in, huh? It's your turn.

03:03.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah, tag me in. Here's some information about your hosts. Dazed and Confused. We are men mary married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

03:21.18
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

03:32.44
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another, so we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

03:45.24
Kevin Shock
So as Nathan said, we are reading psalm one, from Psalm 145, verses 8 through 14, using the NRSVUE. The Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.

04:00.82
Kevin Shock
The Lord is good to all, and his compassion is over all that he has made. All your works shall give thanks to you, O Lord, and all your faithful shall bless you. They shall speak of the glory of your kingdom and tell of your power.

04:14.81
Kevin Shock
to make known to all people your mighty deeds and the glorious splendor of your kingdom. Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures throughout all generations.

04:27.10
Kevin Shock
The Lord is faithful in all his words and gracious in all his deeds. The Lord upholds all who are falling and raises up all who are bowed down. If you are meeting with a group or somebody else, you can pause the podcast and ask the questions to each other. Or you can listen to Nathan answer this question.

04:50.49
Kevin Shock
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text, Nathan?

04:55.73
Nathan Pile
Um, uh, the slow to anger were, was the phrase that caught my attention. Um,

05:07.90
Nathan Pile
uh, you know, it gets set up by gracious and merciful, but then that idea of slow to anger is, um, it's just what caught my attention and, and got me thinking about um,

05:28.02
Nathan Pile
Like I was just thinking about myself, like what kinds of things make me slow to anger? What, what helps me to slow down anger in my own life?

05:38.73
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

05:39.58
Nathan Pile
and, And what that looks like. And so, Um, hearing that phrase gracious and merciful. Yeah, those, uh, are good things for me too, but slow to anger.

05:53.74
Nathan Pile
Um, and we're, you know, we're in the throes of my busiest season here at camp. And so, uh, slow to anger is, is a trait that I would like to be able to harness. Um,

06:08.95
Nathan Pile
And so what else could I, you know, how might I be slow to anger as it as is our, the divine one. And so not that I need to be the divine one in any way, shape or form, but how do I seek to to also, you know,

06:31.70
Nathan Pile
give them you know give others that I, I work with and that I lead the space of, of not my, my wrath or my anger uh one of the things that um

06:46.58
Nathan Pile
one of the things that kind of sticks out to me is that as I get busy it gets harder to slow the anger right because I get tired and I get um wrapped up in whatever's going on.

07:03.08
Nathan Pile
And so recently we wrapped up training and, and so like, well, I want staff to be able to accomplish the things that we talked about in training. And so there's a, uh, can be a time frustration for me of, um, you know, come on, you know, we got the, you you, you, you learned this, we got, we, we did this, we practiced this and, and yet we still haven't captured it yet.

07:15.51
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

07:26.30
Nathan Pile
We, it's not, we haven't made it a skill of our own. We haven't made it a value of our own yet. Um, individually ah as members of the staff. And so recognizing for myself, uh, that that piece of anger at times can, um,

07:43.42
Nathan Pile
and I don't lose control. I don't, but at the same time, I like it's there, like it's high, you know, it's, it's underneath the surface.

07:48.88
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

07:50.14
Nathan Pile
And so, um,

07:55.32
Nathan Pile
the being gracious and merciful. I think I've talked about in the podcast before that mercy has become more of a thing for me, the older I've gotten and the importance of mercy in, in my life and, and sharing it with others and even myself. And so those, I think that that can help that, that,

08:16.34
Nathan Pile
desire to slow, slow my own anger.

08:22.33
Nathan Pile
But again, making sure that

08:26.97
Nathan Pile
you know, we have, we have good staff and we ah allow each other to do our, our own jobs and tasks. um you know, Recognizing I can still get frustrated at times, but this idea of, I'm intrigued by this idea of slow to anger and Again, recognizing that I'm not the divine, but what would it, what would it take God for me to have a a bit of that idea of slow to anger?

08:59.89
Nathan Pile
That's just kind of where my head rotated around here this morning.

09:06.20
Nathan Pile
How about you? What but word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

09:11.54
Kevin Shock
Well, first of all, I appreciate your saying that you didn't want to put yourself in God's position.

09:22.42
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I don't want that.

09:24.31
Kevin Shock
I think that's a good and healthy thing.

09:25.67
Nathan Pile
don't want that.

09:27.74
Kevin Shock
ah but I, For me, um it was the ah

09:36.34
Kevin Shock
verse 11. They shall speak of the glory of your kingdom and tell of your power, I guess really verse 12, to make known to all people your mighty deeds and the glorious splendor of your kingdom. I, I like how

09:53.14
Kevin Shock
this, This psalm presents this not as a should. You know how I feel about shoulds.

09:58.08
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

09:58.36
Kevin Shock
um But that this is the, the evangelical nature, meaning the good news telling nature of human beings and of every created thing is... is it's... Okay, I'm going to rewind there.

10:19.96
Kevin Shock
The nature of every human being and all create and everything that's created is an evangelical nature. um This is because of God's goodness, because of God's grace, mercy, steadfast love.

10:39.54
Kevin Shock
The nature of the created beings, both humans and others, is to tell, maybe, or maybe show also, not just tell, ah the the the good deeds of the Lord, the mighty deeds and the glorious splendor of God's kingdom.

10:59.86
Kevin Shock
um I like that. I like the notion. I guess maybe I'm reading a little bit into it, but it's how I'm reading it. I like the notion that it's in our nature to tell other people, show other people about God.

11:18.98
Kevin Shock
That's what I'm reading in this psalm.

11:21.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah. It's a part of our nature to point to God.

11:23.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

11:27.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

11:28.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah. all, All your works shall give thanks to you. it's not, It's not a question of whether they should or they shouldn't. It's just what they do. And your faithful shall bless you.

11:42.39
Kevin Shock
And they shall speak of the glory of your kingdom and tell of your power to make known to all your people, your mighty deeds and the glorious splendor of your kingdom. I, yeah, to me, that sounds like it's just something that's set in motion. It's not something that we have to decide to do, but it's something that happens because of who God is and because of our relationship with God.

12:09.08
Nathan Pile
I'm just looking at something here.

12:09.48
Kevin Shock
That's,

12:13.72
Nathan Pile
um So yeah, to this verse 12 that you're in.

12:15.10
Kevin Shock
Something related to this?

12:18.32
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:19.00
Kevin Shock
I assume.

12:20.12
Nathan Pile
um So now I just need to put everything back so that I don't screw us up later on. um So I'm intrigued ah again, this the reading the translation that we're using the NRSVUE.

12:36.82
Nathan Pile
Had some footnotes there on the word your, that they've replaced it. They've replaced the word his with your.

12:45.41
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

12:46.74
Nathan Pile
And so I looked at both the NET, which is one of our common translations, and the CEB. And so the NET does your as well, and the CEB does God's, to make known to all people God's mighty deeds and glorious splendor of God's mighty kingdom, or God's kingdom.

13:06.84
Nathan Pile
So the part of the, do, and I'm asking you this because I haven't read, I know that we have the NRSVUE and that they put it, you know put it out as the next translation is, is a big portion of that getting rid of God with male pronouns.

13:30.20
Nathan Pile
Do you know that off the top of your head?

13:31.48
Kevin Shock
I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know.

13:33.94
Nathan Pile
Um, And I don't mean to get rid of God's maleness because God's maleness would, you know, God, God is both male and female. um But we had to as human beings have had a tendency to just attribute male pronouns to God for the, at least from my understanding, them, all of, all of time.

13:53.61
Kevin Shock
Uh huh.

14:03.74
Nathan Pile
maybe there was somebody years ago that did it in a female translation, but it didn't survive. We didn't, we don't seem to have it that I've seen anywhere. So, um

14:17.05
Nathan Pile
so I just, I was curious when I saw the your, both yours and both of them were moving it to his, from his to your, which I don't think in any way changes.

14:17.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's...

14:33.14
Nathan Pile
the translation. It's still talking about God and God.

14:34.65
Kevin Shock
I don't think so either.

14:37.11
Nathan Pile
um And, you know, at camp we try to do some of this in our song book and stuff like that. I find it hard sometimes to do it um because I don't have as much time to kind of study and and maybe think creatively of how else we might word a song that was written back in the 19, you know,

15:00.48
Nathan Pile
50s, 60s, 70s, something like that, when it was more common to use male pronouns to describe god um And now we're just moving away from it because in to be, to be, I think, to be a better theologian means to show all of God, you know the wholeness of God, and that is God is both male and female. um And so limiting it to one pronoun is, doesn't do justice to who God is. so, And I think it can communicate to at least younger generations

15:41.94
Nathan Pile
that God is a boy.

15:48.08
Nathan Pile
You know, we, as adults, should know that God is both, if we're a Christian, if we're a believer of God, have the understanding or have been taught that God is both male and female.

15:58.71
Nathan Pile
But younger kids are who are, you know still learning English. They see his and that means boy. um And so for us at camp, how do we, How do we help kids understand that?

16:15.22
Nathan Pile
And some of that is by having translation that that communicates that wholeness, I think fully. So I just, I wondered if you, I was just curious if you might've had an inside track, being the smart guy that you are.

16:32.73
Kevin Shock
I don't have an inside track, but ah you caused me to look at the um reading a little bit closely more closely. It's just in those two scenarios where the your says that in Hebrew it's his.

16:48.35
Nathan Pile
Correct.

16:48.89
Kevin Shock
ah So honestly, this makes me think that that change that translation change was made just to give uniformity to the address

16:49.37
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

17:01.88
Nathan Pile
Ooh.

17:02.90
Kevin Shock
Like verse 10 starts with the psalmist talking to God.

17:03.00
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

17:08.31
Kevin Shock
All your works shall give thanks to you, O Lord, and all your faithful shall bless you.

17:10.04
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

17:11.75
Kevin Shock
I mean, there there aren't any notes there. That's what, that's at least my assumption is, that's what the Hebrew says.

17:17.65
Nathan Pile
Right.

17:17.66
Kevin Shock
so then, And then it continues. The way it's translated in English, 11 and 12 are one sentence. um And the first half of that sentence does use your, I'm assuming in the Hebrew.

17:29.87
Kevin Shock
So I think that 12 was just changed to your so that it was congruent with the first half of the sentence as we translate it into English.

17:30.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

17:37.73
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

17:39.54
Kevin Shock
Because if you look at it, it's just verse 12 that has those notes about his being changed to your.

17:43.22
Nathan Pile
It does that.

17:45.86
Kevin Shock
Oh, no, I'm sorry.

17:46.42
Nathan Pile
Right?

17:49.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, it's just verse 12.

17:50.16
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

17:50.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's just verse 12.

17:51.38
Nathan Pile
There's verse 12.

17:51.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

17:52.16
Nathan Pile
Because there's a couple other places where his shows up.

17:52.41
Kevin Shock
um

17:54.67
Nathan Pile
9, 13.

17:54.81
Kevin Shock
Right.

17:55.35
Nathan Pile
thirteen

17:55.69
Kevin Shock
Verses 10, 11, and 13 all use your already. So I honestly think, I don't think this is a gender justice change. I think this is a making the um

18:09.14
Nathan Pile
connect with the rest of the

18:09.22
Kevin Shock
is making the scripture more congru-, congruent with itself, I think is what this change is for, yeah.

18:14.27
Nathan Pile
deep. Do you think that the like and looking at this, the way it's delineated here in this passage for us, there's a space between nine and 10 and 13 and 14.

18:26.04
Nathan Pile
Do you think this is some kind of a song or something that has been inserted in the middle of a song, like something that might have been something they would have used already?

18:33.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I don't... i'm not i'm not sure I'm not sure if it was something that they used already. I'm going to click here to see what the full chapter, what the full psalm looks like.

18:47.48
Nathan Pile
Sure.

18:48.02
Kevin Shock
um There is... um

18:54.61
Kevin Shock
I, it, it, Those delineations kind of go with, at least they do in part, um

19:06.65
Kevin Shock
I don't know. it's not, It's not necessarily all uniform, but um they kind of go with a change in voice. So like eight and nine is a statement about the Lord.

19:15.86
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

19:18.94
Kevin Shock
10 through 13 is addressed to the Lord.

19:19.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:24.57
Kevin Shock
And then the end of 13b and 14 are again statements about the Lord.

19:31.75
Nathan Pile
The Lord.

19:33.27
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:33.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:34.71
Kevin Shock
um But when I'm looking at the whole of the Psalm 1 through 3 is addressed to the Lord. 4 through 7 is also addressed to the Lord, but it's... um Well, I don't know. no, kind of, no, this, no. Now that I'm looking more closely...

19:54.14
Kevin Shock
It kind of, the voice changes even outside of those delineations between.

19:56.76
Nathan Pile
Even. Okay.

19:59.38
Kevin Shock
So I really don't know the answer to that.

20:01.90
Nathan Pile
All right. Well, we can pull out, pull ourselves out the weeds here.

20:04.95
Kevin Shock
Okay.

20:05.33
Nathan Pile
Um, cause we went down.

20:05.35
Kevin Shock
All right.

20:07.33
Nathan Pile
All right.

20:07.41
Kevin Shock
It's, yeah.

20:07.69
Nathan Pile
This is, uh, Kevin and Nathan's bunny hole excursion. Thank you for joining us. Um, as we,

20:13.78
Kevin Shock
I mean, I think that... um

20:17.33
Kevin Shock
and don't want to, I don't want to tick off any biblical literalists here or any like King James-only people here, but I assume that the number we have of those people are pretty small listening to this podcast.

20:27.71
Nathan Pile
I was going to say, if they're not annoyed at us after three and a half years,

20:32.28
Kevin Shock
Right, this, this wouldn't be the episode to break it.

20:33.72
Nathan Pile
they're really, they're really tolerant.

20:35.00
Kevin Shock
ah but

20:35.20
Nathan Pile
And so thank you for listening.

20:36.25
Kevin Shock
I, What I was just going to say is... Yes, thank you. What I was still going to say, even if they are still listening, you are still listening, um is that the Psalms... I mean, I think it's important to remember that the Psalms were, are, not were, are liturgical song.

20:56.30
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

20:57.88
Kevin Shock
And so there's, there's kind of ah, I mean, you think about... um you think about like the hymns in our hymnal or in any hymnal. There are hymns that are praise songs where we're talking to God.

21:14.84
Kevin Shock
There are hymns where we're talking about God. um There are, you know, in the Psalms and in our hymnals, there are songs of lament that usually are talking to God.

21:26.55
Kevin Shock
So there's a difference there. And sometimes, as we see in this Psalm, the difference between talking about God and talking to God are both present in the same psalm.

21:37.23
Nathan Pile
goes back and forth. Yeah.

21:39.09
Kevin Shock
It is a psalm of praise, but in some places it's ah it's, we praise you, O Lord, in other places it's, the Lord is to be praised.

21:49.52
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

21:50.74
Kevin Shock
Or, I will praise God forever and ever. which also is a, is not, well, is neither about God nor to God. It's just, it's more, it's about me, which those worship songs make me uncomfortable too. When it's when, when the subject of the sentence is, I, um, but that's how this one starts. I will extol you, my God and King and bless your name forever and ever.

22:15.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

22:16.12
Kevin Shock
Will you, will you really? Is that all you're ever going to do? You're never going to complain about anything. You're never going to ask my God and King, how long?

22:27.74
Kevin Shock
Oh Lord, how long? Why have you forsaken me? You're never going to do that. ah But anyway, ah so I, I guess I have my little pet peeves, you know, that's

22:41.40
Nathan Pile
so Well, I appreciate you helping me look at that a little bit more. And, and it, it is interesting that if we're, as we're, again, it's a work in progress, right? Where these translations that, that these different groups of scholars work on um when they make these changes, again, it's not what my immediate thought was, was, that oh they're just getting rid of the program and pronouns, but you're right at this 10 through 13, they're just trying to unify it.

23:08.02
Nathan Pile
Um,

23:10.48
Kevin Shock
Hmm. It feels like it to me.

23:11.10
Nathan Pile
as a part of what it does.

23:12.28
Kevin Shock
Yes.

23:12.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:12.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

23:12.82
Nathan Pile
And so it's not about the, the gender piece, because if you look at the verses before it and the verses after it, they're using his to describe God.

23:21.60
Kevin Shock
Right.

23:21.66
Nathan Pile
um

23:22.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

23:22.71
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. So, so thanks for that. um that, that bunny trail there for us.

23:31.34
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

23:32.57
Nathan Pile
But it was a, I do, I am always curious why do we why do they make changes the changes that they make but this one obviously is about trying to unify versus 10 through 13.

23:44.73
Nathan Pile
um Which also again makes me kind of curious of if it wasn't something else it was a part of the tradition and the psalmist said, oh this part people would know and, and, and, and they, you know, wrapped it up in language in the psalm itself and and made made it a part of that li liturgy song of 145 kind of a thing, um, and put it in there. So

24:15.62
Nathan Pile
we'll look at a second time.

24:18.26
Kevin Shock
Yes, let's plan on doing that. Well,

24:22.62
Nathan Pile
Like sometime in the future. or do you think we should do it? Yeah, we should do it now.

24:25.09
Kevin Shock
let's do it right now.

24:26.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah, okay.

24:26.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:26.77
Nathan Pile
All right. The plan is set.

24:31.83
Nathan Pile
The Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. The Lord is good to all, and his compassion is over all that he has made.

24:44.28
Nathan Pile
All your works shall give thanks to you, O Lord, and all your faithful shall bless you. They shall speak of the glory of your kingdom and tell of your power.

24:57.02
Nathan Pile
To make known to all your people mighty deeds and the glorious splendor of your kingdom. Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom and your dominion endures throughout all generations.

25:08.34
Nathan Pile
The Lord is faithful in all his words and gracious in all his deeds. The Lord upholds all who are falling and raises up all who are bowed down.

25:22.87
Nathan Pile
Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

25:29.75
Kevin Shock
It goes along with the first, my, the first answer, I think.

25:35.52
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

25:37.71
Kevin Shock
I'm

25:41.75
Kevin Shock
trying to think of how to say it. I want to be conscience, conscious of how I present myself in the world in the sense of

26:01.72
Kevin Shock
evaluating whether I'm living into my nature or not. that, And that is to say, am I speaking the glory of God's kingdom and telling of God's power and making known to all people God's mighty deeds and the glorious splendor of God's kingdom?

26:22.17
Kevin Shock
Am I accomplishing that? Because if I'm, if I feel like I mentioned at the beginning of this, the in the first question, um then that's who that's who I am. That's what my nature is.

26:40.70
Kevin Shock
and um And if I'm not doing that, then am I not being true to myself and true to who God made me to be?

26:54.94
Kevin Shock
I don't know what that means exactly, but I think, but I think it means, I mean, like what the action item is, right? Toward what is God calling? I think, I think god calling God is calling me to be more contemplative about how ah how I interface with the rest of the world.

27:11.67
Kevin Shock
and, And I think then it's only natural that that contemplation would also regard how I interface with God.

27:28.92
Kevin Shock
Like, I think, I think God is okay with our complaint and our burden and our worry and our anxiety and even, I don't want to say our anger, but I mean, I think God understands why we get angry.

27:43.93
Kevin Shock
um God made flesh, God angry. Um... Well, anger is not bad as long as if it's if it's properly directed and for a righteous purpose. um

28:03.20
Kevin Shock
Annoyed is different. Annoyed is probably always bad. But... um

28:08.86
Kevin Shock
But that's all to say, like, I don't think God expects us to be ah like, like the psalmist says at the beginning, but I will extol you forever and ever. Like, we're going to slip up, we're going to make mistakes.

28:20.82
Kevin Shock
But this psalm is calling me to be more contemplative about what I, what did I say? interface How I interface with other people, the world, and how I interface with God.

28:39.48
Kevin Shock
Does that make sense?

28:40.60
Nathan Pile
Yeah, no, and I'm not very far off. I've been sitting here trying to think, is there some somewhere, other way, other direction I can go?

28:49.98
Kevin Shock
Oh.

28:49.98
Nathan Pile
But I think being able to point to the nature of God is, is a part of who we're called to be in relationship with God, right?

28:54.42
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

28:59.02
Nathan Pile
is to be um And so I feel like it that that's, that, you know there's just a part of god's people that's part of what we do or we'll call it part of what we're called to do is is

29:17.66
Nathan Pile
see God for who God is and help others see God for who God is um and ah point and at times maybe point to who God is um when we do see Because there's obviously times I would argue that there's also times I don't see God.

29:38.17
Nathan Pile
Not that God isn't there. I, just Maybe my anger has overcome me and I don't see God in that moment. um My anger has become too much. Or what, what did you say was the other thing of anger?

29:49.62
Nathan Pile
Anger and annoyance.

29:52.02
Kevin Shock
Annoyance.

29:52.63
Nathan Pile
yeah Maybe annoyance. it, Maybe it wasn't anger, but it became annoyance. And then I couldn't get past my own feelings. And so I couldn't see. God in that moment and there'd be other feelings I think that could also do the same thing of that would get in the way of obscuring god standing in front of me um not literally but in the spirit you know and well, I mean, I can't say that, I, you know, I think we're we're um

30:26.24
Nathan Pile
sinful enough that God could be standing in front of us and we might not see him. Because I think we get we hear that over and over again in the in the gospel of the disciples who are with Jesus at times, standing with Jesus, not realizing, not getting who God is and the nature of God.

30:41.60
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Yeah. yeah

30:43.78
Nathan Pile
So I think that's one of the powerful things of the gospel is that it tells shows us the weakness of the, the brokenness of the disciples. And we aren't any any different than, and it's not just the disciples, of the Sadducees, the Pharisees, the Zealots, any any any of those different bodies of people, there are things that get in their way of seeing God.

31:16.41
Nathan Pile
Even if they think, the, the, the obstacle might be something that they've created in hopes of getting closer to God. So...

31:31.99
Kevin Shock
say, say, Say a little bit more about that.

31:35.26
Nathan Pile
Well, just when I think about the Pharisees or the Sadducees, right? they, There are certain aspects of what they think it means to be faithful. that they've made the way of living. And when you're not doing that, they would make judgment or cast judgment on others.

31:53.46
Nathan Pile
um And I think we we as Christians today can do the same thing. We can, we can say that the system that we've created to get to God is more important.

32:06.84
Nathan Pile
And we make "it" in some ways, God. Yeah.

32:10.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

32:12.22
Nathan Pile
I guess that's that. And so I'm trying, I'm trying to talk generally and, and that would be a part of that generalness, but to be a little bit more specific as you you know as you've asked me to be, like ah that's how I think we can, something that we've created, we think by doing these things, it gets us to God. And, and it might even have gotten us to God at one point in time.

32:34.55
Nathan Pile
But when we make it the ultimate, when we make it God, then it gets in the way of actually God.

32:42.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it, it, it was the Pharisees and the Sadducees and it's the church today and it's me and it's you like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:52.09
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah, I'm not blaming. Yeah, I'm not just saying the Pharisees and the Sadducees were the ones that were corrupted by sin.

32:59.45
Kevin Shock
No, no, I know.

33:00.65
Nathan Pile
I'm a, I'm a, I'm a Pharisee Sadducee myself, so I don't like that fact.

33:00.77
Kevin Shock
I didn't think.

33:04.60
Kevin Shock
Right. We're all we're,

33:06.26
Nathan Pile
I don't like that fact. but

33:07.25
Kevin Shock
we're all human beings who seek God and then are sometimes quick to put ourselves in the position of God, uh, to go back to what you said for the first question.

33:14.81
Nathan Pile
Earlier, yeah. Yeah.

33:16.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:16.89
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

33:20.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. We, we want, we want grace to flow in a make in a way that makes sense to us.

33:29.91
Kevin Shock
And, and no, that's right.

33:31.22
Nathan Pile
And God doesn't always make sense to us if you're gonna if, if, If we're going to point to God and say, gracious and merciful,

33:34.32
Kevin Shock
That's right. Mm-hmm. Absolutely true.

33:44.41
Nathan Pile
um God can do a lot of things in grace and mercy that stretches us beyond our comfort zone.

33:52.44
Kevin Shock
Yep.

33:56.60
Kevin Shock
Yep.

33:58.84
Nathan Pile
So...

34:02.68
Kevin Shock
All right.

34:03.23
Nathan Pile
All right, ready to do for a third time.

34:05.08
Kevin Shock
let us Let us do that. From Psalm 145. The Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.

34:17.46
Kevin Shock
The Lord is good to all and his compassion is over all that he has made.

34:18.74
Nathan Pile
an actor are you wanting some help getting rid of it

34:23.13
Kevin Shock
All your works shall give thanks to you, O Lord, and all your faithful shall bless you. They shall speak of the glory of your kingdom and tell of your power. to make known to all people your mighty deeds and the glorious splendor of your kingdom.

34:40.15
Kevin Shock
Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures throughout all generations. The Lord is faithful in all his words and gracious in all his deeds.

34:50.62
Kevin Shock
The Lord upholds all who are falling and raises up all who are bowed down.

34:57.72
Kevin Shock
Nathan, how do you bless God?

35:04.02
Nathan Pile
um if I, if I'm completely transparent, I would say the word with me as the subject of bless always but like uh like I'm the noun at the front of the sentence um makes makes me uncomfortable. I'm, I'm thankful and great grateful to God and

35:18.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

35:24.06
Kevin Shock
Yep. Me too.

35:29.53
Nathan Pile
um

35:35.77
Nathan Pile
But then I'm...

35:42.30
Nathan Pile
But like to think that my blessing upon God does anything for God seems too much. I don't know.

35:53.80
Nathan Pile
It seems silly that God needs Nathan's blessing.

36:00.73
Nathan Pile
Or that my blessing has any...

36:04.69
Nathan Pile
profound effect on God. um so again, So there's an idea of being gracious and thankful to God that that feels completely like that, that, that's a part of my role. and, But that idea of blessing, I think of God blesses, God is the one who blesses me and that feels like a God thing.

36:34.42
Nathan Pile
doesn't mean that I can't be a blessing, you know, be a blessing to others. But the idea of me being a blessing to God seems, don't just silly to me. Not silly. What, what would be the word? it would Inadequate.

36:52.82
Nathan Pile
Like, I wouldn't be able to, to do what God does.

37:03.61
Nathan Pile
that make sense?

37:03.93
Kevin Shock
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does.

37:05.40
Nathan Pile
so, So like it makes sense and like it makes sense to give thanks and praise to God for me. And, and that, that those things are a part of blessing. But a lot of times I think a about a blessing is, is like after somebody's been baptized, we bless the infant in God's name.

37:24.66
Nathan Pile
we, After we've taken communion, there is a post-communion blessing.

37:24.76
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

37:29.78
Nathan Pile
Again, invoking God upon all of us. So the idea of reversing that in some way, and that I'm, you know, giving that to God, seems seems arrogant in my mind, I guess, a little bit. Yet at the same time, if I were to say, can I be a blessing to Kevin, I can be a blessing to you.

37:58.64
Nathan Pile
I don't know what it is about my relationship with God that feels like there's an impediment to me being able to bless God. But there's definitely like, yeah, it definitely feels that way.

38:11.45
Nathan Pile
with Specifically with this word. Yeah.

38:15.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I understand that.

38:18.29
Nathan Pile
So.

38:19.67
Kevin Shock
Yes. And, and even so, as I hear you talk, I think I have, ah it's helping me to make sense of maybe, well, I don't know, make sense, but ask some different questions maybe.

38:32.41
Nathan Pile
Sure.

38:32.50
Kevin Shock
Um, so think we have to understand what we mean.

38:40.25
Kevin Shock
Maybe we have to deconstruct what the word blessing means. Um, and, uh,

38:48.95
Kevin Shock
I don't know if I'm prepared to do that fully. but

38:51.86
Nathan Pile
ah I was going to be fascinated.

38:53.24
Kevin Shock
But

38:54.24
Nathan Pile
was going to watch the bishop at work here, Deconstructing Blessing.

38:56.76
Kevin Shock
yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't know that I'm, I don't know that I'm fully able to do that. But I think you know sometimes it helps to put things in different terms whenever we're looking for the meaning that we that we're feeling.

39:08.60
Kevin Shock
When we say God blesses us,

39:08.74
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

39:12.50
Kevin Shock
um

39:15.29
Kevin Shock
I think that, I don't know, maybe a lot of times we mean that like God gives us good or God, ah God does good on our behalf. Um, um, and I wonder, like you said, he said toward the end of your answer there, I don't know that, I don't know that like, I feel okay being able to bless someone else, but I don't know if I can bless God.

39:24.19
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

39:41.24
Kevin Shock
And what that made me think about is and I don't want to speak for the mind of God here, but I imagine that God considers relationship with us to be a blessing.

39:55.52
Nathan Pile
Absolutely, absolutely, I would agree with that.

39:58.39
Kevin Shock
And so, so there is, I mean, I, I agree with you. I have the same kind of around this word. It feels weird because it feels like to me, I always imagine blessing is something that comes in the direction of from God to us.

40:11.95
Nathan Pile
Mmm

40:12.41
Kevin Shock
Um, But if we are doing something that is maybe, maybe, maybe but and, and I mean, you know, this this question isn't just like the wording for this question isn't just something I came up with. It comes directly from the text.

40:31.13
Nathan Pile
Really?

40:31.99
Kevin Shock
yeah, it, it's Yeah, no.

40:32.25
Nathan Pile
Is that the first time you've ever done that?

40:35.93
Kevin Shock
ah

40:36.29
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

40:36.57
Kevin Shock
ah All your faithful shall bless you. Yeah. So that makes me think that it, anytime we do something that's pleasing to God, is that a blessing to God? I mean, I think so.

40:52.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah,

40:52.31
Kevin Shock
And maybe we wouldn't say it exactly that way, like I am blessing God. or um

40:58.07
Nathan Pile
yeah, I would never say it that way.

40:58.19
Kevin Shock
But no, no, I know, I know.

40:59.83
Nathan Pile
Never.

41:01.09
Kevin Shock
but I'm, But what I'm wondering is, it can we say it that way?

41:01.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah, and I know you're there.

41:06.10
Kevin Shock
Do we mean something different when we're saying God blesses me? than when we say I'm blessing God. Maybe we do. Like, I think we can certainly do things that are pleasing to God.

41:19.13
Kevin Shock
We are in a relationship with God that I'm presuming God finds to be a blessing because God desires that relationship.

41:19.41
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

41:28.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

41:29.05
Kevin Shock
um It's not as though we're doing something to help God. Like we might feel it that way In the other direction, like when God is blessing us, maybe we feel like God is helping us or God is.

41:49.56
Kevin Shock
You know, bringing something about for our good. It's weird.

41:56.93
Kevin Shock
it's weird

42:01.05
Kevin Shock
Well, I don't know. this now, Now I'm really starting to look at all the rabbit holes that are here in front of me. um You know, we, I feel like in the church in the last, I don't know, 30 years or so, we've really tried to move in a direction of worthiness being rooted not in what we do, but who we are. Yeah.

42:28.98
Kevin Shock
That we're, we're made worthy because God, God is the one. We are worthy because God made us. And we're made worthy through the through what Christ has done on our behalf.

42:42.80
Kevin Shock
It's not about how much we accomplish. It's not about what we do. It's, it's rooted in who we are as, as beloved children of God. um It makes me wonder because we don't talk...

42:59.64
Kevin Shock
we, we talk about God's doing and God's acts maybe more than we talk about who God is.

43:13.91
Kevin Shock
Like just in general terms. I mean, here in this reading, you have, you know, the Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. The Lord is good to all and his compassion is over all that he has made. That's about who God is.

43:27.51
Kevin Shock
But then we move right into all your works. um Make known to your people your mighty deeds. ah but Like there's there's, again, toward the end of this reading, all his words, gracious in all his deeds.

43:43.58
Kevin Shock
um ah when Whenever we pray, we're often asking God to do something on our behalf. And we even use bless as a, as a,

43:56.28
Kevin Shock
um instruction to God or ah you know what's the, what's the kind of word I'm looking for here? we're, We're asking God, when we ask God to bless somebody, we're asking God to do something.

44:10.28
Nathan Pile
Right.

44:10.55
Kevin Shock
ah ah um

44:10.84
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

44:13.11
Kevin Shock
And so there's, there's

44:17.18
Kevin Shock
for

44:20.98
Kevin Shock
I wonder if we get stuck in then. this I know, we're, I'm going to come out of the weeds again here soon. But I wonder if we get stuck in God's blessing to us being rooted in what God does. And we know that there's nothing that we can do to please God. And yet God is pleased by who we are.

44:40.06
Kevin Shock
So I wonder if it's because our understanding of blessing from God is rooted in doing. And our understanding of blessing to God is in, is rooted in being.

44:55.61
Kevin Shock
I wonder if that's where the disconnect is. um Yeah.

45:00.98
Nathan Pile
I could say probably for sure for me, that would be, you know, the we, we spend a lot of time delineating, not delineating, not a lot of time.

45:05.51
Kevin Shock
But...

45:10.20
Nathan Pile
We spend some of our time theologically

45:15.64
Nathan Pile
trying to articulate the action of God in this in our relationship.

45:23.27
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

45:24.44
Nathan Pile
and, And because we do that, I think that in many ways is, because I'm, I'm fully on board with that we absolutely are a blessing to God in that in the way that you've described it and talked about it, that the, that us simply living our life,

45:45.56
Nathan Pile
us simply living our life will be pleasing to God. But in my head as a theologian,

45:51.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah, especially.

45:56.57
Nathan Pile
The idea of me blessing God is ludicrous. but

46:02.46
Kevin Shock
yeah.

46:02.90
Nathan Pile
Because I'm just not, I'm not the divine one. You know, the, the divine, we want the blessing of the divine.

46:05.27
Kevin Shock
Right.

46:07.64
Nathan Pile
And so, yeah.

46:08.89
Kevin Shock
Right.

46:09.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I appreciate the idea of the, you're articulating that that idea of being, simply being is, is what is pleasing to God.

46:25.40
Nathan Pile
our being

46:29.37
Nathan Pile
being alive, living, living together

46:31.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Well, and living in, as I said earlier, living into that

46:44.47
Kevin Shock
living into that relationship, or that that I'm sorry, not that relationship, that nature that God brings forth from us. That's right. And that is, I think, when we live into the nature of who God made us to be, it is pleasing to God. And we do bless God.

47:01.07
Kevin Shock
It's just that that's not that's not language that, think I mean, I know you and I are on the same page. It's not language we feel comfortable in doing in in participating in because, utilizing, because there is, ah like it's so rooted in me, the sense of there's nothing I can do to please God.

47:24.12
Kevin Shock
I, or there're, No, not to please God.

47:25.94
Nathan Pile
You can please God, but...

47:27.10
Kevin Shock
I can please God. There's nothing I can do to make myself worthy before God.

47:32.15
Nathan Pile
There we go.

47:33.72
Kevin Shock
God has already taken care of the worthiness. God has already taken care of the salvation. And so then our role is just to live into who we are in the life that God has given us. And when we do that, it is pleasing to God.

47:46.58
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

47:48.02
Kevin Shock
And when I say just live into it, it's hard.

47:52.60
Nathan Pile
Right.

47:52.69
Kevin Shock
It's not right.

47:52.82
Nathan Pile
Yeah, right. to love To love your neighbor is not easy.

47:54.22
Kevin Shock
It's, Yeah, right, right.

47:58.47
Nathan Pile
when your neighbor puts a political sign in their front yard that infuriates you.

48:08.10
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

48:11.96
Kevin Shock
Among other things, yes.

48:13.08
Nathan Pile
Among other things. Yeah, this is just one.

48:14.87
Kevin Shock
ah

48:15.26
Nathan Pile
I don't mean to just stop there. There's lots of things that can go, that can cause that.

48:17.08
Kevin Shock
oh

48:22.88
Nathan Pile
Sadly, recently in our news, we've talked, you know, there was a talk of a neighbor who killed another neighbor over.

48:31.51
Kevin Shock
In your local news?

48:32.09
Nathan Pile
And yeah, in an imaginary line in the, in their field. So, right, there's lots of things that can.

48:38.62
Kevin Shock
Oh my gosh.

48:46.49
Nathan Pile
Lots of things that, that, like living into

48:52.10
Nathan Pile
God's way of life. It's, it's really hard.

48:56.01
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It certainly is.

49:07.64
Nathan Pile
Any other thoughts here on this last question?

49:11.91
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. nope

49:16.15
Nathan Pile
Some additional readings for you this week. Zechariah chapter 9 verses 9 through 12. The king will come in humility and peace. Romans chapter 7 verses 15 through twenty five a um The struggle within the self.

49:34.20
Nathan Pile
All again, both of these as I read them, I'm like, yeah, that these fit with what we're talking about in the psalm.

49:38.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah, the Romans. Yeah, the Romans.

49:40.66
Nathan Pile
Yeah. ah ah

49:42.78
Kevin Shock
not and don't necessarily the Romans doesn't necessarily fit with the psalm, but the Romans does fit with our commentary on the psalm for sure.

49:49.84
Nathan Pile
Right, our commentary on the song.

49:50.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

49:52.31
Nathan Pile
um Matthew chapter 11, verse 16 to 19 and 25 to 30, the yoke of discipleship. And then the, we are in the summer season. And so the semi-continuous Old Testament readings are Genesis chapter 24, 34 to 38, 42 to 49 and 58 to 67, The marriage of Isaac and Rebecca, kind of drawn off out across that 24th chapter. And then Psalm 45, 10 to 17, God has anointed you with the oil of gladness. And psalm a Song of Solomon, chapter 2, verse 8 to 13, Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. I sang a little tune about that in college.

50:45.94
Nathan Pile
My love.

50:45.97
Kevin Shock
Oh, did you?

50:46.62
Nathan Pile
my fair ones and come away. Yeah.

50:49.75
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

50:50.68
Nathan Pile
So interesting. I didn't know at the time, I guess I didn't realize that that came from song of Solomon. Now that I see it there laid out. Yeah. That's where it from.

51:00.16
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

51:00.95
Nathan Pile
So, um, thank you as always, Kevin, for your, uh, thoughts and reflections here on this passage. And, um,

51:11.74
Nathan Pile
And for those of you listening, if there's something we said that sparked ah something in you, we'd be delighted to hear about it. So feel free to share that with us. We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

51:26.76
Kevin Shock
And peace.