S4 Episode 39: Romans 8:26-39

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How does the Spirit assure you of God’s love?

Additional texts:

1 Kings 3:5-12

Psalm 119:129-136

Matthew 13:31-33, 44-52

Genesis 29:15-28

Psalm 105:1-11, 45b

Psalm 128

Transcript

00:01.97
Kevin Shock
Nathan, I just wanted to share that um I know that you have a couple of times um used movie quotes to begin our podcasts uh this spring and summer and uh I just saw a meme the other day of Ferris Bueller talking about life if you don't pay attention life goes by too fast or whatever whatever it is um

00:30.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's pretty close. Yeah, that's pretty close.

00:33.62
Kevin Shock
I did, I did the other day look up to see if any of the streaming services I have were were streaming Ferris Bueller's Day Off for free. They were not. But part of the reason I did that was because I watched a few weeks ago, Smokey and the Bandit um because, because we had talked about that.

00:52.20
Nathan Pile
Nice. I just had a high anchoring just the other day for Smokey and the Bandit.

00:57.43
Kevin Shock
and it's, It's on Netflix, or at least it was on Netflix. I'm not sure. Sometimes things disappear. I will say it was a, it was a weekend when I had a little bit of downtime. and think Lisa was somewhere else.

01:09.40
Kevin Shock
I ended up that weekend watching Smokey and the Bandit and Smokey and the Bandit 2. um For that reason, I did not watch Smokey and the Bandit 3. Oh,

01:19.00
Nathan Pile
Or four. I'm pretty sure there's four.

01:20.98
Kevin Shock
oh my gosh. Oh, please, no. I mean... Two did not need to be made at all. And that still had, I don't even think three had like the, the big stars in it anymore.

01:33.42
Kevin Shock
Maybe Jackie Gleason was, but I don't think, I don't think either Sally Field nor Burt Reynolds were in three.

01:38.77
Nathan Pile
Burt Reynolds was in three. I don't know.

01:40.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

01:40.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I don't know.

01:41.31
Kevin Shock
They were in two, but they didn't really need to be. um

01:46.28
Nathan Pile
That's what made the movie was that Sally Fields and Burt Reynolds, they were probably dating during that, but during two.

01:51.54
Kevin Shock
I think they were, yeah.

01:51.80
Nathan Pile
And so that, that, that would have brought a little bit of excitement to the people would have gone and just seen it just because.

01:52.46
Kevin Shock
I think...

01:56.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I, I think I went down that Wikipedia rabbit hole to like, uh, you know, I, I like reading those things when I'm watching those movies to figure out who was doing what at what time and stuff.

02:01.34
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

02:08.06
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

02:08.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

02:09.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

02:09.55
Kevin Shock
All about these actors and stuff. But anyway, um, so yeah, I, uh, there been some, uh, there'll be other movie quotes. I haven't watched Dazed and Confused recently,

02:19.49
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

02:19.74
Kevin Shock
ah

02:20.18
Nathan Pile
That's another one I've used. Yeah.

02:21.72
Kevin Shock
with all right, all right, all right. Um,

02:23.96
Nathan Pile
All right. All right. All right.

02:25.08
Kevin Shock
But I did, I did. I don't think we talked about this before. That's Matthew McConaughey's first line on screen ever.

02:34.55
Nathan Pile
Ever.

02:35.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that was, he, he made his, he made his big screen debut in that movie.

02:36.46
Nathan Pile
Nice.

02:40.26
Kevin Shock
And that line was improvised.

02:46.10
Kevin Shock
It was not in the script.

02:47.38
Nathan Pile
It wasn't in the script.

02:48.50
Kevin Shock
It wasn't in the script, no. he, He said that he was getting into character and um trying to embody this, put himself in that place of this guy is essentially a loser because he's been out of high school for years, but he thinks he's the biggest thing in the world.

03:07.13
Nathan Pile
Still hanging around.

03:09.53
Kevin Shock
he thinks he's the biggest thing in the world And what's he going to say when he pulls up into this crowd of like high school people ready to party for the weekend?

03:20.71
Kevin Shock
And that's what came out.

03:22.33
Nathan Pile
That's what came out.

03:22.52
Kevin Shock
All right, all right, all right. but

03:25.87
Nathan Pile
That's a pretty good origin story to the, the quote. I didn't know that part of the story.

03:30.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um I didn't hear it but a couple of years ago, I listened to the audio book of Matthew McConaughey's memoir, and it was really, really entertaining.

03:42.33
Kevin Shock
like It was kind of what you would expect Matthew McConaughey's memoir to be like.

03:44.87
Nathan Pile
You kind of hate to to, to be about.

03:46.45
Kevin Shock
But he reads it, so it makes it even more entertaining to listen to it.

03:46.73
Nathan Pile
yeah ah Makes a it even more fun. I

03:50.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah. But anyway. Okay, that I digress. this, We don't need a movie quote. We just ah we just need some...

03:55.53
Nathan Pile
was going say, ah you for all of that, ah you named like five movies and we get no movie quote.

04:00.70
Kevin Shock
ah No, you don't get a quote. I just, I was just sharing that your quote inspired me to, to like look after some of these other movies that that I haven't thought about in a long time.

04:04.41
Nathan Pile
All right.

04:08.54
Nathan Pile
These other ones over the year. over the yeah I still have had a hankering for Smokey and the Bandit. Something happened and I had an article.

04:18.97
Nathan Pile
Sally Fields was talking about when she dated Burt Reynolds.

04:22.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

04:23.47
Nathan Pile
That re-ignited my, oh, I should just go back and re-watch that movie.

04:26.87
Kevin Shock
I have to say it's just like from ah from a kind of a dumb like buddy movie slash action movie perspective, it, it holds up. it's ah It's a decent movie.

04:35.64
Nathan Pile
It holds. It holds. and Okay, yeah.

04:36.87
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah. Yeah.

04:40.86
Nathan Pile
Racing across the country with a semi-truck of Coors.

04:41.05
Kevin Shock
Any.

04:45.11
Kevin Shock
Coors beer.

04:46.20
Nathan Pile
Coors Banquet.

04:48.14
Kevin Shock
Oh my gosh.

04:48.47
Nathan Pile
For a wedding or something like that.

04:50.74
Kevin Shock
Oh no, it's just, no, it's a challenge. it's ah like A guy with a bunch of money has a

04:53.05
Nathan Pile
Oh, it's just a challenge. I thought there was, I thought there was a party or something at the end of it.

04:56.63
Kevin Shock
Well, there is some kind of like rally or something, but it's a guy with a bunch of money who just challenges truckers to do this.

05:05.69
Kevin Shock
See if they can do it.

05:06.39
Nathan Pile
I forgot that part of it, so all right.

05:06.61
Kevin Shock
there Yeah, yeah, yeah.

05:08.35
Nathan Pile
All right.

05:09.78
Kevin Shock
Anywho, okay. Well, we're gonna talk about scripture today. We might also, I don't know, watch some old movies at some point together, but we don't often get that chance.

05:17.94
Nathan Pile
and That'll be a different podcast.

05:19.95
Kevin Shock
That's a different podcast, right?

05:20.42
Nathan Pile
That'd be a different podcast.

05:21.85
Kevin Shock
Today we are looking at a, boy, a really great part of scripture. and it is Paul, but I think there are maybe are enough commas and periods in here for it to make sense. ah We're looking at Romans, Romans chapter eight, verses 26 through 39 from the Common English Bible. I did, Nathan. I was at a church a few weeks ago and someone said to me something, they were reading from Paul And they said something to me about like, boy, that ah that was all one sentence, I think, the that reading but was like, yeah, it could get like that. Anyway, um, we are going to be using three questions like we always do to mine the scripture. What word phrase or image strikes you in this text toward what is God calling you in this text?

06:13.37
Kevin Shock
And how does the spirit assure you of God's love?

06:20.28
Nathan Pile
Some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

06:32.73
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. But none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God in one another.

06:48.63
Nathan Pile
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience. The podcast today is obviously focused on Kevin and I's perspective, but it gets rich when we also get to be in dialogue, whether it be digitally or face-to-face with you around this, around scripture.

07:11.77
Nathan Pile
So we're going to be looking at Romans, the eighth chapter, as Kevin said.

07:17.14
Nathan Pile
In the same way, the Spirit comes to help our weakness. We don't know what we should pray, but the Spirit himself pleads our case with unexpressed groans.

07:30.74
Nathan Pile
The one who searches hearts knows how the Spirit thinks, because he pleads for the saints, consistent with God's will. We know that God works all things together for good, for the ones who love God, for those who are called according to his purpose. We know this because God knew them in advance and he decided in advance that they would be conformed to the image of God's son.

07:59.03
Nathan Pile
That way his son would be the first of many brothers and sisters. Those who God decided in advance would be conformed to his son, he also called.

08:15.74
Nathan Pile
Those he called, he also made righteous. Those whom he made righteous, he also glorified. So what are we going to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

08:31.45
Nathan Pile
He didn't spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. won't he also freely give us all things with him? Who will bring a charge against God's elect people?

08:45.05
Nathan Pile
It is God who acquits them. Who is going to convict them? It is Christ Jesus who died. Even more, who was raised and who also is at God's right side.

08:57.94
Nathan Pile
It is Christ Jesus who also pleads our case for us. Who will separate us from Christ's love? Will we be separated by trouble, or distress, or harassment, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or a sword?

09:15.38
Nathan Pile
As it is written, we are being put to death all day long for your sake. We are treated like sheep for slaughter. But in all these things, we win a sweeping victory through the one who loved us.

09:30.45
Nathan Pile
I'm convinced that nothing can separate us from God's love in Christ Jesus, our Lord. Not death or life, not angels or rulers, not present things or future things, not powers or height or depth or any other thing that is created.

09:51.41
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Bishop, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

10:03.99
Kevin Shock
ah It comes right at the beginning, second verse, um the consistent with God's will.

10:12.87
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

10:13.77
Kevin Shock
In verse 27, so the whole verse is the one who searches hearts knows how the spirit thinks because he pleads for the saints consistent with God's will. um the

10:26.74
Kevin Shock
There's... um I think, I think as I consider that, there's comfort for me because, and maybe this goes back a little bit to what we were talking about in our last episode as well, that... um that God, what makes God incomparable is that God, um knows more about every situation in the world and, and how it plays out or, or, or what the consequences of it are more than we do. Um, and so I think that the, you know, this, um,

11:08.22
Kevin Shock
says and this is, this is CEB. I like the NRSVUE version that talks about the sighs too deep for words, that the that the spirit um the spirit pleads our case or prays for us with sighs too deep for words. Here it says it differently. The spirit himself pleads our case with unexpressed groans. um But I also like to think that... um if we don't Well, it says here, if we don't know what we're supposed to pray, the Spirit steps in on our behalf and makes those prayers, which is a comforting thing for me. The other thing that's comforting is that um when we sigh or groan prayerfully, um then

11:58.39
Kevin Shock
that too is a prayer that God receives. and And God knows exactly what we need. better than we ourselves know what we need because the spirit and the one who searches these hearts are their one.

12:16.86
Kevin Shock
you know This is part of the Trinity. um the the The spirit is not separate from God the Father, not, not of a different essence.

12:28.33
Kevin Shock
the, The spirit does everything that God the Father would do. And so the one who knows The one who knows us best and knows what's best in our situation and knows every situation of the world around us, knows what we need and hears those unexpressed prayers and responds to them.

12:52.57
Kevin Shock
um I feel like Paul here. I'm, like, I'm talking in circles, but, but that's comfort that's comforting to me. To know that when I can't muster up the words to know what best to pray for, that God is already hearing prayers that are in, in my best interest and in the best interest of everyone around me.

13:22.84
Nathan Pile
Well, and um first kind of just responding to what your thoughts are here. Again, the spirit being as such

13:37.56
Nathan Pile
that it's consistent with God's will, but also knowing that the spirit lives in, in you and I. One of the things that we're at camp this summer, we're talking about is, is we're using the Colossians verse of wearing love.

13:53.21
Nathan Pile
And then each day gets a different word. And so we're talking about calmness one day and humility one day. And there's a part of, of, of this passage that strikes me in that in us seeking, um,

14:13.46
Nathan Pile
some quiet time in the midst of our world, quiet to connect to God, to, to help us, to calm ourselves. The bishop came actually to, to staff training for a day, everybody that's listening, and, and was a part of our worship service that evening.

14:32.50
Nathan Pile
And there was this idea of in the, in the passage of we breathe in God's peace and we breathe out our own worries in the world.

14:45.53
Kevin Shock
our worr- Our worries, yeah.

14:47.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah. And there's there's a powerfulness of this, I think, that helps us to connect to that spirit that's there, because you know, of that, that unexpressed, those unexpressed groans and, and being connected to God's will. But the, the consistency there is the, the factor that's a part of that is the Holy Spirit. Right. And, and how do we, do we get in tune with the Holy Spirit? Right.

15:16.76
Nathan Pile
other than that in this idea of humility and calmness. You know, there's just a richness of that, that, that again, because I'm playing in this curriculum for our summer, reminds me again, as a pastor and as ah as a Christian myself, how am I making time to calm myself and to breathe in God and to breathe out my worries?

15:39.76
Kevin Shock
Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. yeah yeah

15:44.54
Nathan Pile
you know And so the this passage, yes, you picked a second. bit Sorry, everyone. It's my radio going off here. can't. um How do we... Because of the thing that caught my attention was the spirit himself pleads our case with unexpressed groans. And and yes, there's absolutely been times in my life when I am struggling...

16:14.74
Nathan Pile
when I am struggling with

16:19.86
Nathan Pile
my own like being able to put words to what I'm, what's going on in my life. But there's also, because I'm immersed in this curriculum, this and, and, and your reflection, like how do we make time to, to come alongside, to, to listen and to be calm and to breathe in God

16:46.58
Nathan Pile
in our world so that we you know again, I guess, I would use a, we haven't used this phrase yet today, but centering prayer is one of the the spiritual gifts or spiritual practices that we use as the church helping us to center and so there's a there's a part of this that feels like boy how do, how can I come back to that that spiritual practice, because I'll be honest, in the midst of summer camp, there's not a lot usually a lot of time to sit and listen.

17:18.26
Nathan Pile
But how do I use that spiritual practice of centering prayer again to help me connect with

17:19.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure. Yeah.

17:27.68
Nathan Pile
With the holy and, and allow the spirit to, to be and to guide me in my unexpressed groans, but also to kind of help reconnect me to that consistency of God's will that is happening and going on and so.

17:44.68
Nathan Pile
All of this feels like an intersection here, this passage today with what we're doing at camp this summer through our curriculum.

17:51.75
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

17:53.26
Nathan Pile
And I've already, because of the curriculum itself, been talking with our leadership and thinking about, well, how do we make sure that this happens at summer camp? How do we give kids in a world of technology and cell phones, how do we make them sit awkwardly for 10 minutes in silence?

18:13.21
Nathan Pile
To help us practice ah it a little bit to, because it does feel awkward, right?

18:13.65
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

18:17.85
Nathan Pile
When we do it, we're like, what do we do with ourselves? I can remember being a camper at camp and having morning devotions and being sent out into the woods with my Bible and being like, what am I going to do out here for 10 minutes?

18:21.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

18:28.92
Nathan Pile
and, And, and now I'm the, I'm,

18:31.74
Kevin Shock
And that was even that was even pre like cell phones and screens and things like that.

18:34.46
Nathan Pile
It was even pre-cell phone, right?

18:35.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

18:35.98
Nathan Pile
And so like, how, how can I help this next generation? Because there's a richness to it. Like I now as an adult recognize there's a richness to some of that silence and calming myself down and breathing in God and breathing out my worries.

18:53.43
Nathan Pile
um And so how do I help this next generation? um

19:01.46
Nathan Pile
So like, how again, I want, I want to practice it in my own life, but I also want to provide it as a practice for not just our summer staff, but all of our summer campers because of the cell phone world that we live in.

19:14.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:14.88
Nathan Pile
Because there is a place where we can,

19:15.18
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

19:21.02
Nathan Pile
where we can reach in to that silence and allow the Holy Spirit to connect to us and and maybe even free us with some unexpressed groans so that we we're back in that practice of talking to God, centering ourselves around God and the Holy Spirit towards God's will.

19:43.54
Nathan Pile
um So again, these these these first two verses of this passage to me just kind of resonated both, both with what we've been studying at camp. And then as you talked about it, it also kind of like it became a part of...

19:58.33
Nathan Pile
of my answer because my, my, my phrase was on ah that unexpressed groans that I've lived through times in my life. And a lot of times it's in the summer when I'm exhausted and I just want to moan to God. One of the funny things we joked about last week was we were trying to make some video, make two videos that go along with what we're doing with our summer theme so that kids can watch it after camp is over. And of course, the one thing that we didn't want was wind.

20:24.85
Nathan Pile
And the day before I was on the climbing tower, it was so hot. It was one of the really hot days. And I was like sweating. I'm like, come on, God, just give us a little bit of a breeze. And a day later, I'm trying to make a video for God.

20:37.17
Nathan Pile
And I was like, come on, God, I don't need the breeze today.

20:39.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

20:41.11
Nathan Pile
You know, so we all kind of laughed about that the day before we were praying for breeze and then we got it the next day. And some people said, maybe Pastor Nathan, you should just be thankful that God listened to your prayer. And I said, yeah, but I'm trying to make a video for God today.

20:53.87
Nathan Pile
Like God should know I'm trying to make a video.

20:54.17
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah

20:55.55
Nathan Pile
And so just like, just hold it off for 20 minutes and then it can, the breeze can be what it's going to be.

20:56.60
Kevin Shock
yeah

21:01.54
Nathan Pile
So again, like there's, there's, as we play around with this idea of prayer and, and As we pray, as we play around with this, how, how might we, or how might I, um, again, center myself in the midst of, of everything that's going on, but ah how, how also can we create space?

21:26.42
Nathan Pile
Obviously we're trying to do it at camp, but how can we do this in our own communities? We create space where we center ourselves and, and, and try to connect to that spirit that is searching our hearts all of the time and helping us to to express our groans, but also to help us connect to God's will in the midst of life every day.

21:48.23
Nathan Pile
So, so there's some just some richness there that I felt was kind of overlapping, both in today's reading and what we're what we're doing this summer as a part of our curriculum.

21:52.37
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

22:00.64
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's, um, I don't know. there's, There's a lot there that makes me think about like what how do how do we practice centering prayer well?

22:12.63
Kevin Shock
um and, And what might centering prayer look like in different situations and for different people? Because I don't think that centering, like I don't think that it works the same way for everybody.

22:22.66
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

22:22.74
Kevin Shock
um I think, you know, I, I know an experience I've had at camp is when I did, um you know, I walked the labyrinth at camp when I was there.

22:34.36
Kevin Shock
Maybe it was last year at Tend festival. And that to me was a very centering thing. But I think part of it for me is because I was walking while I was doing it.

22:48.44
Kevin Shock
And like, I'm, I'm the kind of person that I don't do. There have been times in my life when I've been okay at it, but not currently now, now is not one of them. when I, if I go and and sit quietly with my Bible, that doesn't feel centering to me.

23:05.89
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

23:06.78
Kevin Shock
I get wrapped up in, I should be doing something. like, Like, I don't know, sitting still doesn't help me right now. I hope I return to that at some point because the times when I, I have been able to do that, it has been very relaxing for me and not just relaxing, renewing.

23:24.41
Kevin Shock
um But in any case, I just wonder if there are different ways for people to do that. And I know that like I, for me,

23:35.00
Kevin Shock
You know, you talked at one point about listening to what God is saying. For me, that's something that in certain situations, I will try to do that in real time.

23:48.44
Kevin Shock
Like if I'm visiting with people, if I'm in a congregation, I'm like, I'm, my attention span is keyed in, or my attention is keyed in to being with the people and listening to what they're saying, because I trust that in the things that they're saying to me, God is going to speak something to me.

24:11.26
Kevin Shock
Um, cause I think that that's how the church works. Um, and so for me, like those times can be more centering and more, um revelatory than if I sit down at my dining room table with myself and light a candle and read my Bible, which um some people might be surprised to find out I don't do that all that often.

24:34.84
Kevin Shock
oh but it, But because it just doesn't work for me. it and, And I engage with scripture and people in other ways. So in any case, that's, yeah. and I'm curious just about how like

24:53.02
Kevin Shock
sometimes centering prayer calls us out of the world and you know into ah into a holy ground. And I think that that's good and I think that can be helpful.

25:04.65
Kevin Shock
I also wonder if centering prayer, if I wonder if anyone's ever done any work or written anything on centering prayer um through engaging in the world more deeply.

25:16.15
Nathan Pile
hmm

25:17.98
Kevin Shock
Like that's the thing that I do wonder about. I don't know.

25:22.71
Nathan Pile
yeah, yeah, I don't know either. I know a couple of people that we could ask but i don't know that answer directly myself so we have some leaders in um in our synod and retired leaders that are

25:23.89
Kevin Shock
So,

25:27.80
Kevin Shock
yeah, yeah. Okay.

25:35.96
Nathan Pile
deeply into this the centering prayer movement. All

25:43.03
Nathan Pile
right. We ready to do this a second time?

25:46.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah, let's look at it a second time from Romans 8. In the same way, the Spirit comes to help our weakness. We don't know what we should pray, but the Spirit himself pleads our case with unexpressed groans.

25:58.20
Kevin Shock
The one who searches hearts knows how the Spirit thinks because he pleads for the saints, consistent with God's will. We know that God works all things together for good for the ones who love God, for those who are called according to his purpose.

26:11.93
Kevin Shock
We know this because God knew them in advance and he decided to he decided in advance that they would be conformed to the image of his son. That way his son would be the first of many brothers and sisters.

26:23.42
Kevin Shock
Those who God decided in advance would be conformed to his son he also called. Those whom he called he also made righteous. Those whom he made righteous he also glorified. So what are we going to say about these things?

26:36.57
Kevin Shock
If God is for us, who is against us? He didn't spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. Won't he also freely give us all things with him? Who will bring a charge against God's elect people?

26:50.26
Kevin Shock
is a god it is God who acquits them. Who is going to convict them? It is Christ Jesus who died, even more who was raised, and who also is at God's right side.

27:00.79
Kevin Shock
It is Christ Jesus who also pleads our case for us. Who will separate us from Christ's love? Will we be separated by trouble or distress or harassment or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

27:13.08
Kevin Shock
As it is written, we are being put to death all day long for your sake. We are treated like sheep for slaughter. But in all these things, we win a sweeping victory through the one who loved us.

27:24.72
Kevin Shock
I'm convinced that not nothing can separate us from God's love in Christ Jesus our Lord, not death or life, not angels or rulers, Not present things or future things, not powers or height or depth or any other thing that is created.

27:39.86
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

27:46.74
Nathan Pile
Again, as with Paul, there's many things I could, I could say that I feel called towards in this. But I think my over, as I was thinking about this question, as you got towards the end of this passage, the the thing that I think stands out to me um is a, in one word, I would say it's ah it's a word of freedom that um in that, that there is, there is nothing that can come between me and God.

28:23.74
Nathan Pile
So there's not anything that I could even create

28:28.92
Nathan Pile
or build up that will block God and my connection to God.

28:37.98
Nathan Pile
And so to me, there's a piece of... Yes, there's other, there's other aspects of freedom. I'm not... I'm not, I guess there, what I'm saying here is there's a free-, a freedom for me of that there is nothing that I could possibly do that's going to sever the connection that I have with God. and And I use this all of the time with staff in that I'm talking about God giving us a gift, God giving us a gift, God, God constantly placing that gift in our hand. and, And if we turn our back on God and call God names and and are angry with God, um we in our head may say, well, we've I've severed that relationship with God. But the thing about God, as soon as we turn around again, as soon as we try to turn our shoulder just to kind of peek and see if God is there, God's still there.

29:29.18
Nathan Pile
um And so gives us that reassurance of that there really is nothing there. and, And I talk about it when we talk about baptisms.

29:39.22
Nathan Pile
I talk about it in length. I'm sure you and I've talked about it in the past when we've talked about Ash Wednesday, that, that, that mark that is on our foreheads forever means that we're claimed by God.

29:49.46
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

29:51.44
Nathan Pile
And so all of those pieces add up to there's ah There's a freedom, a liberation um of that I have to do it right for God to love me.

30:08.84
Nathan Pile
That's not true. In Paul's passage here, there' there's nothing... that gets in our way. We have we have ah God who's going to decide, God who is going to be the judge, and Jesus who is is going to be the one who's going to really decide, but Jesus is also pleading for us. So Jesus is the defense attorney, um the prosecution, and the judge.

30:36.60
Nathan Pile
And it makes, like, it's, it's, there's, There is this piece of freedom and liberating. like who's going to, Who's going to argue against you? um Well, it's going to be the person who's given up his life for you. So is he going to have a very effective argument? He's already decided in your favor because he's given up his life for you. So um, so all of that, there's there's this, this piece of freedom that um

31:08.31
Nathan Pile
it just is in some ways kind of unfathomable. um or going back to last week's reading, incomparable in that that we've been given this gift. That's what it is. It's a gift of, of love and forgiveness and freedom because of, again, we go back to who, the nature of who God is. And so there's nothing that can separate us from God anymore.

31:37.94
Nathan Pile
Even us turning our back on it, because as soon as we turn around to see if God's still there, God's putting that gift of love back into our hand and saying, here, this is for you. Free gift, no strings attached.

31:51.32
Nathan Pile
And that, I haven't even said that phrase in a long time. Not a long time, but couple years. Gift, no strings attached. It was one of my favorite for many years. Because that again, that's a part of what this is. There's, there's no strings attached to this. And, and there's nothing, there's nothing that we can do

32:14.10
Nathan Pile
to, to, to ruin this relationship. And so to me, that is that is liberating. um That is freeing. Hard to understand, absolutely.

32:28.25
Nathan Pile
But, but ah But God is always going to be there. So that would be toward what I feel called to in this text. How about you, my friend?

32:42.01
Kevin Shock
Well, I want yeah, no, I'm just thinking about some things you said. um Yeah, I, I, I think what I'm called, yeah, I think what I'm called to, I'm still trying to process, ah um is, is that notion that

33:08.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, I guess, I guess when I read when I read text like this, the thing I find myself wondering is why, why do I get worked up about anything at all?

33:24.89
Kevin Shock
Like, this, this is such a text of... no matter, no matter what the situation is, no matter where you are in life, no even even if you feel even if you feel like you don't, you can't even put together the words to ask what you want to ask for.

33:42.62
Kevin Shock
God is surrounding you and filling you with love. And um and I, I mean, I know we talked about centering prayer a little bit earlier on. I, I just, in in my daily life,

33:59.77
Kevin Shock
when I feel like I'm getting overwhelmed or frustrated with something or whatever it may be, like I have found myself more recently wondering, why can't I, why can't I remember who I am and who God is for me in the midst of all of these things?

34:15.09
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

34:19.48
Kevin Shock
um

34:22.71
Kevin Shock
And, and I, I mean, I've not, I've not been in this role for very long But um, I'm getting, I feel like I'm getting closer to the point where I don't even know how to say this, Nathan, without, well, I don't know how to say it, where I feel like um

34:51.67
Kevin Shock
deep attention to God and to God's people and, and, and prayer is the way that is, is the solution to all the problems we face as the church.

35:04.86
Nathan Pile
Mm.

35:05.69
Kevin Shock
Like I, we're, we're not going to make any plans for ourselves that are going to be better than the plans that God has made for us.

35:14.08
Nathan Pile
Mm.

35:15.48
Kevin Shock
And, and I think that I feel called in this reading to remember that, um,

35:23.97
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

35:26.14
Kevin Shock
And, and work work on remembering that day in and day out with with every you know with everything that comes across my desk, with everything that I mean, you know, I, I have the way my brain works, um which I think a lot of people recognize how my brain works if they listen to this podcast.

35:55.35
Kevin Shock
I go on tangents a lot. I ramble a lot. There will be some days that i wake up early in the morning, either because the dogs wake me up or because I'm getting older and I have to go to the bathroom. um and And then i i try to go back to sleep, but it's just like I just get bogged down thinking about what the day is going to bring.

36:17.20
Nathan Pile
can't. Mm hmm.

36:21.30
Kevin Shock
And like I can't turn off my brain. and, And literally this morning, Nathan, that started happening. Because I had ah, I had a long weekend. It was filled with a lot of work things. They were good, they were good things.

36:33.91
Kevin Shock
But we're also like in the midst of preparing for Synod Assembly as we record this. And I'm thinking about you know all the things on my to-do list that I didn't get done by Friday evening and need to pick back up like now.

36:48.95
Kevin Shock
And um I just started thinking about all this stuff. And I literally thought to myself, all right, Kevin, here you go again.

37:02.65
Kevin Shock
Like, ah like, like I can recognize that I'm, that what I'm doing is not helpful.

37:14.26
Kevin Shock
and, And it feels like it's a little beyond my control, but at the same time, I think if I can recognize it not being helpful, then I might be able to turn myself and my attention to the one who is taking care of all of these things.

37:33.14
Kevin Shock
Not that God crosses things off my to-do list, but that, but that God is the one who has like this...

37:44.09
Kevin Shock
God is the one who I desire to speak through me. And God is the one who um makes these, you know, has has these, I don't, I don't know if I want to say plans, but, but knows what is best for me and for the people I serve.

38:03.29
Kevin Shock
And so if that's the case, why am I letting myself get worked up by the things that I want to accomplish or the things that you know that I'm concerned that someone might be upset with or whatever it might be.

38:17.66
Kevin Shock
I just think that there there are so many more there are so many opportunities for me to turn my attention to God each and every day that that's what this is calling me toward. I'm already feeling a strong call toward it, but that's what this is calling me toward.

38:36.82
Kevin Shock
to, To pay attention to the one who works all things together for good for those who love him.

38:45.01
Nathan Pile
Well, as we started with, you know, finding that time to center ourselves may help us to decide what gets on the calendar and what doesn't too, right?

38:56.12
Kevin Shock
No, absolutely. Yeah. Mm

38:59.52
Nathan Pile
uh I think that's the hard piece of like we can you and I can add all kinds of things to our schedule and our agenda and and i probably absolutely do and some of them are Nathan motivated right like they're, they're oh, I think we should do this and maybe the holy spirit is in that decision and maybe maybe not maybe it's mostly Nathan and so what are the things that that are as we're, as we, as we read, read this passage, as we that that early portion of this passage, is that piece of of hearing and thinking about listening for the Spirit and how the Spirit connects us consistently to God's will.

39:10.87
Kevin Shock
hmm.

39:46.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

39:48.92
Nathan Pile
Because if we can, if we, if we are doing that, then maybe that does help us in our centering of ourselves, it helps us to think about what God is calling us to next.

40:12.86
Nathan Pile
Anything else? Any other thoughts?

40:15.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah, we just have this weird, I don't know, there's this weird tension, I think, among Christians of like relying on God, but not allowing that to be an excuse for us to be inactive or inattentive toward anyone else.

40:34.41
Nathan Pile
Right.

40:36.34
Kevin Shock
Like, that yeah, it's, it's a strange tension for me. Because there really is a sense for me of God is the one who's going to get us through this. God is the one who's going to, like, God is the one who makes the best plans.

40:53.21
Kevin Shock
But that doesn't mean that we just sit around and wait for some big sign. Like, I think that there's, there's faithful living that happens in the midst of all that as well.

41:07.38
Kevin Shock
But I do think that it means that we don't. We don't just act according to what we want or what we think is best. um If it, if it feels premature, like I think, I think that there's a, for me, I don't know how to describe it for, but for me, there's kind of an intuition of, um,

41:29.72
Kevin Shock
when I should, when I should act on something, when I should ignore something, um which frankly doesn't happen all that often, but sometimes it does, or or when I should um wait for a clearer answer.

41:47.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

41:48.69
Kevin Shock
And I feel like that's the one that I that's the one that I noticed the most. because there's a part of me that was like, I just, I just want to have this resolved. I just want to take care of this.

41:58.48
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

41:59.96
Kevin Shock
And, and that, if I go into something with that attitude, then it's, it's about serving my purposes.

42:12.94
Kevin Shock
It's about serving my purposes. It's about making sure that I get something done that I want to get done. And that may or may not have anything to do with what God wants in the situation.

42:25.66
Kevin Shock
So it's just this weird, it's this weird, Lutherans are used to living in tension anyway. It's this weird tension of what do I do and what do I make space for God to do?

42:39.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

42:39.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Anyway.

42:41.85
Nathan Pile
Well, and, and, and you've articulated it a lot of times that means time and space are given like we give time and space and, and,

42:49.66
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

42:51.90
Nathan Pile
Again, in a culture and a timeline right now is very time and space. Like you just have to, well, technology is moving this fast. We all have to move this fast.

43:02.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

43:03.03
Nathan Pile
No, technology can move it.

43:03.42
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

43:06.10
Nathan Pile
The speed technology needs to move it, but we're human beings and we probably need to figure out again, as we have countless other times in the history of humankind, what's the right speed for humankind?

43:22.78
Nathan Pile
That, your reflection kind of makes that apparent for me again of, you know, to to discern what God is calling us to sometimes it can't, like we needed, we needed to come around again and again and again for us to say, Hmm, this might be a Holy Spirit God thing, as opposed to, I think we should do this.

43:47.38
Nathan Pile
And,

43:49.98
Nathan Pile
and we launch into something. you know, I, one of the things of, of having tight restraints at camp because of our finances reminds me that we're not going to do it until we know it's the right time to do it.

44:02.86
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:03.29
Nathan Pile
Like if we had lots of money, there'd be lots of things that I would try to have us be working and building on.

44:03.32
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:13.08
Nathan Pile
And maybe those aren't the right, it's not the right thing or the right time to do that. That's why there's a large group of people, of the board of directors that help discern those times when we when we do spend a lot of money to do something big like a capital campaign.

44:28.12
Nathan Pile
You know, the, it's the wisdom of everybody, not the wisdom of Nathan. It's the wisdom of everybody saying, yeah, no, this is the right time and place to go about doing this.

44:40.79
Nathan Pile
So that there's the community, the, the community of faith is making that decision together.

44:40.90
Kevin Shock
yeah

44:46.04
Kevin Shock
right, yeah, the community discerns what God is speaking yeah no

44:50.94
Nathan Pile
And I think that would be true in congregational contexts as well. that they would, before you enter into something big, the call of a pastor, the renovation of a sanctuary, that there would be there would be time taken, prayer, you know, they allowing the Holy Spirit to for everybody to kind of assess, is this consistent with God's will for us right now?

45:13.82
Nathan Pile
And then the, the knowledge or the wisdom of everybody helps to make that decision, including the Holy Spirit being in the midst of all of it for us. So.

45:26.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:28.34
Nathan Pile
All right, we ready to do a third time?

45:28.41
Kevin Shock
Okay. yeah let's Yeah, let's do it a third time.

45:34.97
Nathan Pile
In the same way, the Spirit comes to help us, to help our weakness. We don't know what we should pray, but the Spirit himself pleads our case with unexpressed groans. The one who searches hearts knows how the Spirit thinks, because he pleads for the saints, consistent with God's will.

45:51.54
Nathan Pile
We know that God works all things together for good, for the ones who love God, for those who are called according to his purpose. We know this because God knew them in advance, and he decided in advance that they would be conformed to the image of his Son.

46:08.63
Nathan Pile
That way, his son would be the first of many brothers and sisters. Those who decide who those whom God decided in advance would be conformed to his son, he also called.

46:21.50
Nathan Pile
Those whom he called, he also made righteous. Those whom he made righteous, he also glorified. So, what are we going to say about these things?

46:34.20
Nathan Pile
If God is for us, who is against us? He didn't spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. Won't he also freely give us all things with him?

46:46.42
Nathan Pile
Who will bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who acquits them. Who is going to convict them? It is Christ Jesus who died even more, who was raised and who also is at God's right side.

47:00.98
Nathan Pile
It is Christ Jesus who also pleads our case for us. Who will separate us from Christ's love? Will we be separated by trouble or distress or harassment or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written, we are being put to death all day long for your sake.

47:21.46
Nathan Pile
We are treated like sheep for slaughter. But in all these things, we win a sweeping victory through the one who loved us. I'm convinced that nothing can separate us from God's love in Christ Jesus, our Lord. Not death or life, not angels or rulers, not present things or future things, not powers or height or depth or any other thing that is created.

47:35.94
Nathan Pile
Kevin, how does the spirit assure you of God's love?

47:53.59
Kevin Shock
Well, this is a cop-out question, or not question, answer maybe. um it's, It's through other people. And as I was, as I've been thinking about this question, but also listening to this,

48:08.86
Kevin Shock
um

48:12.44
Kevin Shock
listening to you reading this a third time, all all of Scripture, all of Scripture is written in the context of the community. not individuals.

48:25.82
Kevin Shock
And we are, our cultural lens and our cultural training has taught us to think about things in terms of the individual.

48:26.16
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

48:38.78
Kevin Shock
And I noticed as you were reading that, that the, that the pronoun that Paul uses a lot is plural.

48:51.16
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

48:52.09
Kevin Shock
um He's not saying, I'm, I'm convinced that nothing can separate me from God's love in Christ Jesus our Lord. It's that nothing can separate us, the community, the, the, the people.

49:03.45
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

49:05.98
Kevin Shock
um

49:09.18
Kevin Shock
We win a victory through the one who loved us. And... So I guess it shouldn't be surprising to me that the the times when I, like you know like I described before, when my brain turns on and I can't switch it off, it always happens in the morning before the day starts when I'm by myself with my own thoughts.

49:34.14
Kevin Shock
I don't, I don't worry about these things or have concern about these things when I'm in the presence of other people.

49:44.15
Kevin Shock
and, And I think part of that is because we, it's not just that I'm getting distracted from my thoughts, it's that we are like in the presence of people, that that's how you share good news with one another.

50:01.14
Kevin Shock
And so, especially when I'm around people like in the church, we are in one way or another, whether we're doing it intentionally or not,

50:15.98
Kevin Shock
bearing witness to good news for one another.

50:20.44
Kevin Shock
And, um,

50:24.22
Kevin Shock
so yeah, the, like the, the, there I feel the spirit present there it's in, it's in those times that I feel like, well, yeah, no, God's love is surely present here and nothing.

50:35.92
Kevin Shock
There's, there's nothing in all of creation that can separate that from, separate us from that. So,

50:44.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I mean, that there's probably a common refrain to my answers there, that this is communal, but, but I do, I do feel this as I heard you reading this again, and I noticed how many we's and us's are in there.

50:57.59
Kevin Shock
If God is for us, who is against us?

51:02.20
Kevin Shock
this is, this is about the, This is about the community together. This isn't about, and this isn't about Paul himself. or This isn't about any other individual. This is about the whole community and what God does for the whole community.

51:18.62
Nathan Pile
Yeah, my, my answer to this is right where you're at. um Which is, it's about the community, you know, the, the, the Holy Spirit is the, is working and assuring you and I in God's love through the community.

51:37.78
Nathan Pile
and, and, and, And again, it's not just one community, right? There's lots of different communities you're a part of and I'm a part of. And in, in all reality, God is using all of them.

51:44.36
Kevin Shock
Sure.

51:48.02
Nathan Pile
to connect us. God, the creator, the the source of love is, is using all kinds of community to

51:59.83
Nathan Pile
to to support us, to to foster us, to nurture us. And so we're experiencing love in you know in all kinds of ways, whether it be from a congregational community of faith, whether it be the community found that, like I know you volunteer every Friday at pause, like there's a community of love and care there.

52:27.37
Nathan Pile
um

52:27.64
Kevin Shock
okay

52:28.79
Nathan Pile
And, and people who care about you in a different way than, people who care about you in the community of faith, where you, where you go and worship on a Sunday or the church that you're visiting this Sunday as the Bishop.

52:39.05
Kevin Shock
Sure.

52:43.10
Nathan Pile
Um, or when you were here with us at Sequanota, know, like that there's all of those different ways we're, we're supporting and caring for each other. And so, um, you know, assuring us of, of love, God knows that we're experienced based species.

53:03.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

53:03.45
Nathan Pile
This part of human humankind, the, the part of the creation that God has made um that that is like God, it does it out of experience and relationship. And so God has made sure to ah to build us up through community, family, neighborhoods.

53:24.76
Nathan Pile
you know It's been a part of all of the different iterations of humankind. is that we find ways to pull ourselves together. And in that the Holy Spirit is, is nurturing love within us.

53:38.20
Nathan Pile
Some of them um based out of a community of faith and some of them based out of something else that commonly pulls us together. But love is still a part of that community. Like we know when we're living in good community, right? As human beings, those are the things we wanna hold onto.

53:57.37
Nathan Pile
I can remember as a parish pastor talking to people who were new members of our congregation, they were constantly looking for a place to belong, to be accepted and to fit in.

54:11.09
Nathan Pile
That's about love, right?

54:12.50
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

54:12.97
Nathan Pile
That's ah that's about love. and, And God knows that for us. And so, you know, from a a standpoint of how does God do this? Well, God, God knows that we need community to feel it, to to feel love, to, to, to share it with one another, to be nurtured in it and cared for in it.

54:35.00
Nathan Pile
And so it's going to take a a group of people for the Holy spirit to do that. And, and the good news is that the spirit does do it right and in each of us. And then we do it for each other when we need it, when things are low,

54:50.55
Nathan Pile
You know, when we were, we're deeply ah deeply saddened on Friday, I was a part of a family that I knew periphery family members of, of the family that that I was asked to to do a graveside service for. and But watching that family who came from many different states to gather together, it was in their gathering together that there was support.

55:20.52
Kevin Shock
hmm hmm

55:20.73
Nathan Pile
that they found love together, even though many of them are are hours and hours apart because of where they now live and reside. And so there was still this this common thread of love that ran through the parents' lives that connected the kids and the grandkids and and the uncles and aunts and and the great aunts and the great uncle, you know, the bigger and bigger extended family, that the the spirit still came and assured them that they are loved and connected, even though the parents are no longer in their lives on a day-to-day basis.

56:00.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

56:03.61
Nathan Pile
So that piece of community is, is how God, for me, does it.

56:10.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay. Hmm.

56:17.46
Kevin Shock
All right. Well, anything else about this reading?

56:21.65
Nathan Pile
No. This is one of my favorite sections of Paul. There's a lot here.

56:25.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

56:26.29
Nathan Pile
There's a lot here.

56:26.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah. This is a, yeah, this is a, certainly a good one, but I think like, like a lot of things that we read and feel like, Oh, I know what that says.

56:37.24
Kevin Shock
Sometimes it's good to revisit it. Even if we know what it says, and sometimes we hear something new if we, um, if, and when we revisit it.

56:42.02
Nathan Pile
What? Yeah.

56:44.75
Kevin Shock
So yeah. All right. Some additional texts, uh, for you to look at, if that's something that you would like to do. um we have from 1 Kings 3, verses 5-12, Solomon prays for wisdom.

57:04.63
Kevin Shock
And from Psalm 119, verses 129-136, When your word is opened, it gives light understanding. when your word is opened it gives light and understanding From Matthew 13, verses 31 to 33, and then 44 to 52. This is part of Jesus' rapid fire parables, the section parables of the reign of heaven, the kingdom of heaven.

57:29.59
Kevin Shock
ah And then we have our also our semi-continuous readings that deal with big sections of Hebrew scripture, the Old Testament. Genesis 29 verses 15 through 28, Leah and Rachel become Jacob's wives.

57:45.78
Kevin Shock
That's an interesting way to describe that. Anyway, that's a that's a ah story full of complex ah longing. and ah Yeah, and it's a complex story.

57:56.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's a complex story.

57:58.01
Kevin Shock
um Psalm 105 verses 1 through 11 and then 45b, which forty five b is just the word hallelujah, but make known the deeds of the Lord among the peoples.

58:09.47
Kevin Shock
Hallelujah. And then an alternate for that Genesis reading is Psalm 128, happy are they who follow in the ways of God. ah Nathan, and I would love to hear your reflections about how how the Holy Spirit reveals God's love to you. And for all you who are listening, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

58:29.27
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

58:30.93
Nathan Pile
And peace.