S4 Episode 41: Romans 10:5-15

Translation: New English Translation (NET Bible)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What word is God putting in your heart and on your lips in this season?

Additional texts:

1 Kings 19:9-18

Psalm 85:8-13

Matthew 14:22-33

Genesis 37:1-4, 12-28

Psalm 105:1-6, 16-22, 45b

Transcript

00:02.01
Kevin Shock
Hello and welcome to Tend. Nathan, ah the other day, I was, we talked on last episode about doing things that, you know, what nourishes us. I was, um took some quiet time in the morning to read scripture and pray, which is something that I should do every morning, but sometimes gets away from me.

00:24.89
Kevin Shock
um But I've been trying to do better with it because I know that it sets my day off right. I'm also in a in one of those times when.

00:36.06
Kevin Shock
um For whatever reason, sometimes my brain gets the best of me. I have been waking up very early in the morning worrying about things.

00:44.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. no

00:46.20
Kevin Shock
And. So I think they're, I, I'm pretty sure I know what the reasons for that are. And they're not like they're normal human reasons and not not reasons for me to worry. But nevertheless, I wake up and worry about things. and And ah one morning when I was, well, I guess it was just yesterday or the day before when I woke up and I was worrying and I was trying to pray. But, you know, again, sometimes it like,

01:19.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sometimes it gets the best of me. um I really had this clear feeling that I was receiving a word that just said, Kevin, you need to spend more time in the word.

01:34.20
Kevin Shock
And which I spend a lot of time in the word, but um but I guess there's always room to grow with that. and And so I'm grateful that we had this on the calendar and we are...

01:49.49
Kevin Shock
we're doing this because it's just one more opportunity for me to spend time in the word.

01:53.87
Nathan Pile
To be in the word.

01:54.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:55.31
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:55.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:56.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah. The dog, the dog is also trying to get a word in here.

01:56.63
Kevin Shock
So

01:59.46
Nathan Pile
I'm not sure what's going on in my office, but.

01:59.77
Kevin Shock
yeah, the dog is getting a word in. Well, someone probably walked in that he wants to see.

02:02.75
Nathan Pile
So. Probably, probably.

02:06.87
Kevin Shock
So Nathan, for the word today, I thought that I would pick your favorite book of the Bible.

02:06.90
Nathan Pile
know

02:13.66
Kevin Shock
I really, I know how much you don't like reading Romans. Not that you don't like reading it, but yeah, but discussing it can be a difficult thing because of, yeah.

02:19.32
Nathan Pile
I was gonna say it's not that I don't like reading it.

02:23.83
Nathan Pile
it is, It can be. Yeah, it can be.

02:25.69
Kevin Shock
But um but this was this was just a reading that I thought, oh, wow. Yeah. there, there was another reading that I thought maybe this is the one, but I just kept coming back to the Romans. So we're looking at Romans 10 verses 5 through 15 today.

02:40.79
Kevin Shock
We are looking at a different translation from, well, this is one of the standard ones we use, but the New English translation, the Net Bible.

02:48.22
Nathan Pile
Mm hmm.

02:49.24
Kevin Shock
So it says things a little bit differently and maybe even more faithfully in some ways.

02:49.30
Nathan Pile
Mm hmm.

02:56.07
Kevin Shock
So I think there will probably be some phrases, Nathan, that you will. I know for me, there were some phrases that, oh, this is these are the words I'm used to hearing, but this is how the NET says it.

03:02.80
Nathan Pile
Like Katja. Yeah.

03:06.84
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

03:07.30
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

03:09.05
Kevin Shock
And the three questions we're going to use to engage the scripture, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this test, text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And what word is God putting in your heart and on your lips in this season?

03:27.10
Nathan Pile
ah Some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

03:40.44
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. But none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know, want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

04:05.86
Nathan Pile
Romans chapter 10.

04:09.75
Nathan Pile
For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the law. The one who does these things will live by them.

04:21.82
Nathan Pile
But the righteousness that is by faith says, do not say in your heart, who will ascend into heaven? That is to bring Christ down.

04:33.05
Nathan Pile
Or who will descend into the abyss? That is to bring Christ up from the dead. But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.

04:48.31
Nathan Pile
That is the word of faith that we preach.

04:52.86
Nathan Pile
Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

05:03.19
Nathan Pile
For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness. And with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation. For the scripture says, everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.

05:19.61
Nathan Pile
For there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who richly blesses all who call on him. For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

05:37.30
Nathan Pile
How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of?

05:48.89
Nathan Pile
And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, how timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news?

06:11.77
Nathan Pile
what oh, what, ah If you're meeting with your group, you can cause the pause you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Kevin um takes on Paul's theological um treatise in Romans chapter 10 with what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text.

06:35.99
Nathan Pile
Okay.

06:37.72
Kevin Shock
Okay, well, first of all, the theological treatise. I mean, it boils down to there's, there's righteousness under the law that came from Moses handed down.

06:45.94
Nathan Pile
Mhm.

06:47.03
Kevin Shock
ah but But Paul is interested in talking about the righteousness that come by faith. and And the thing that I love about this reading, and and it's not the...

06:52.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yep, yep, yep.

06:56.34
Kevin Shock
um It's not the...

07:03.32
Kevin Shock
I guess it's an, it's a theme more than it's an image. But the theme of that um calling out, whether it's whether it's calling out for help or whether it's calling out to pro to deliver good news, um that's the image that the what's what strikes me about this text because there's much...

07:28.12
Kevin Shock
there's so much You know, the righteousness by law, and I have to pull the reading up to make sure I get it right, um is is all about making sure that you do all the right things, which is, you know, at

07:46.61
Kevin Shock
it's important for us to do the right things, to live in a righteous manner, but that's not what gets us, that's not what gives us righteousness. Like, we, we, we in and of ourselves...

07:59.90
Kevin Shock
God gives the gift of the law to show us the way of righteousness, but we in and of ourselves cannot uphold that righteousness. We can't uphold that law.

08:06.81
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

08:09.05
Kevin Shock
And this reading boils the gift of righteousness that comes by faith down to what, what, what is in your heart and what's on your lips.

08:22.58
Kevin Shock
And so if you are... if you are, I think that I think that several weeks ago we talked about, like, the was it the the the leader, Jairus maybe?

08:35.07
Kevin Shock
be Or is that a different gospel? But I know that we talked about the woman who touched the hem of ah Jesus' cloak and just talked about how desperation was what drove her to do that.

08:42.58
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

08:47.64
Nathan Pile
Mm.

08:49.94
Kevin Shock
But, but from desperation comes trust.

08:52.18
Nathan Pile
Mm.

08:54.26
Kevin Shock
And, and that's, that's what I hear in this as well, that there's a trust that if you're if you're calling out to Jesus for help, it's because you trust Jesus.

09:05.02
Kevin Shock
And that's how in

09:08.98
Kevin Shock
in Christ, by faith, by the gift of faith, that's how we receive righteousness. Like just calling out to him gives us righteousness because he is righteousness. and, And then also I'm, I'm just struck by...

09:19.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

09:24.86
Kevin Shock
you know how to, oh, How to convert people.

09:25.49
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

09:28.62
Kevin Shock
I don't know that, I don't like that terminology necessarily. How to bring righteousness to other people is simply by showing them and telling them who Jesus is.

09:41.13
Kevin Shock
And I love, I don't want to take anything away from you because I said you might hear some things differently. I love that last line. I, I love that last line in other translations, which says something along the lines of how beautiful are the feet of those who are messengers of the good news or who carry the good news.

09:49.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

10:01.91
Nathan Pile
yeah

10:02.20
Kevin Shock
But um I love this notion. This is like real... Nathan and I, maybe we've talked about this before, but the difference of chronological time and kairotic time, which is human time, as we understand it, linear time, and then the right time, God's time.

10:23.38
Kevin Shock
um I, I love that that line, how timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news, which just says to me that anytime someone proclaims the good news, there's someone there who needs to hear it right then.

10:39.19
Kevin Shock
And I love, I love that. I, I love the like, you know, how many how many things can be guaranteed in this world that if you do something, someone will respond to it.

10:51.99
Kevin Shock
um But this this says that any time you proclaim good news, it's because someone there needs to receive it. and And I just, yeah.

11:03.86
Kevin Shock
As a preacher, I love that. But as a Christian, I love that too, because that also means that Whenever I need to hear good news, there's probably someone nearby who's ready to proclaim it to me.

11:15.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

11:17.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah, which is a great comfort. So, so it's that, it's that, it's that word. It's that, it's that heart inhabiting and, and lip it's located word that, that comes forth either out of desperation and trust or out of ah gratitude and love.

11:39.77
Kevin Shock
So, yeah. What about you? What word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

11:45.53
Nathan Pile
But all of the, you know, again, ah what you've said, but I was also struck here as, um, as I was reading it, um, again, some of the, the conversation from last week's, that idea of interaction engagement with,

12:05.37
Nathan Pile
um I also saw it woven in here. Right. Um, and so you're talking about Isaiah, which would have been written, um you know, somewhere in the, the first, you know, after David. So BCE, um,

12:32.22
Nathan Pile
um

12:35.99
Nathan Pile
thousand years after, you know, J, David's somewhere around a thousand BCE is the thought, right? um And then Paul is writing somewhere a little bit after zero.

12:49.43
Nathan Pile
So you're talking about a thousand year difference in writing. That doesn't include what from Isaiah might've been, um, story or, or handed down over some generational time. And you know it took a while to to be written down in in Isaiah itself. um but you, So you're talking about a, a message that has spanned least over a thousand years, and now you go from Paul to us another 2,000 years, a message that about this interaction that God is having with us, ah the intentionality of God

13:25.88
Nathan Pile
that is a part of that, that we bring God into the space and God is in the space, but as a part of being God's chosen, as a part of the, the gift of the Holy spirit, we also, um you know, the, that phrase verse eight is where I've kind of landed with, you know,

13:48.92
Nathan Pile
what does it say? The word is near you in your mouth and in your heart. Now there's lots of quototio-, quototio-, quotations in this from Old Testament readings. Like again, that's part of what makes it, I think, a little bit more cumbersome.

13:59.05
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

14:04.54
Nathan Pile
um Now the n NET does a nice job of of highlighting each of those as we read the text here in the in the Bible Gateway app. It has bolded each of the quotations. So as we look at this, we can see, I don't know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

14:26.07
Nathan Pile
So in 10 verses, seven of them are, are quotations from something before. Um,

14:35.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:36.02
Nathan Pile
Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Nahum, Isaiah, Joel.

14:39.20
Kevin Shock
Isaiah, Joel, yeah.

14:41.42
Nathan Pile
ah So there's you know there's just lots of of Paul going back and saying, this is a story that is, you know, this message is a message that's, you know, thousands of years long.

14:53.11
Nathan Pile
um and it's, And it's in you and I. The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. And that, and that, that again, that God would use us

15:06.20
Nathan Pile
to proclaim that word of faith.

15:09.12
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

15:09.21
Nathan Pile
Um, um, and, and so Paul is saying, this is, this is a message that is before me.

15:20.98
Nathan Pile
it's a message that goes on well past Paul, um, though in Paul's mind, I don't necessarily know that Paul thought it would go on thousands of years after him. Um, he was still hoping that it was right around the corner. Um,

15:36.86
Nathan Pile
ah the Christ's second coming. But this, this, these, the, the story of God interwoven in our lives and I would, I used the word a little while ago, intentional, um the, the year has seemed to be since last fall really that word intentional has come up over and over again for me both in my camp planning here but also in my study of scripture um that god is very intentional uh

16:08.31
Nathan Pile
and, And that it just keeps, God keeps bringing this message around and around and around and and, and keeps interweaving it into the life of the the community of faith.

16:22.46
Nathan Pile
And so here we have this idea that that you and I in our mouths and in our hearts, um the word has been has been attached to us um and, And so this, this gift that God gives, um like it's, it is, ah you know, again, when we were talking last week, we talked I had mentioned the extravagant farmer throwing, casting seed.

16:50.34
Nathan Pile
Yes, we have this extravagant farmer, but, but it's with intention, right? It's not just, it's not willy-nilly.

16:57.11
Nathan Pile
Even, even the, the extravagant farmer, as they, as, as the extragant, extravagant farmer casts the seed, there was intention with where like ah it's going to feed birds. It's going to make better soil. It's going to nurture the, it's going to nurture and make, and and eventually it's going to also land on that good soil and it's going to grow 40, 60, hundred fold. um kind of a thing So there's intention throughout being an extravagant farmer for God. And so here even this, there's intentionality over thousands of years to interweave this message that, that, that we are, we are called and or we are called and claimed by God because of who God, who God is

17:46.20
Nathan Pile
that gift of of of love and forgiveness, that gift of grace, um God has constantly been weaving it through the the the decades and centuries and generations. And that God uses each of those generations and, and now our present generation to be people who bring the word of faith to to others. Yeah.

18:15.48
Nathan Pile
again, so that it's just unique to me and not unique. It's, it's, it's, um, fascinating to me how intentional God is, um, in, in interweaving that. And, and, and again, we see it here in, in Paul, even though as it does, it is, it is a dense, um, passage, um,

18:43.76
Kevin Shock
It is.

18:44.22
Nathan Pile
But I think we see but I, I think we see that intentionality, as as ah both in the author and in the divine.

18:44.36
Kevin Shock
You're right.

18:48.97
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

18:53.53
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

18:54.27
Nathan Pile
So...

18:54.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God. Right. I,

19:01.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I don't, I don't often like to think of, like, God's... plan in the sense of like, you know, trying to trying to conform our lives to God's, to God's plan, where it comes down to, you know, us saying like, well, should I take this job or that job?

19:19.66
Kevin Shock
Like, which one does God want me to have?

19:20.39
Nathan Pile
Mm. Mm.

19:21.74
Kevin Shock
I don't, like, I don't subscribe to that understanding that like there's, there are absolute right and absolute wrong answers. I think God is with us in all the decisions we make and and even when we make mistakes god continues to be with us but this does point toward there's a at least a maybe a nature is better to say than a plan but yeah God, God has this, God is focused.

19:52.15
Kevin Shock
God is focused on the word going out and coming back with results.

19:57.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:58.04
Kevin Shock
And God is focused on building up people, communities, nations, the whole of creation through the Word.

20:10.33
Kevin Shock
and, And it's not just a spoken word, it's the Word that's implanted in us, it's the Word made flesh, it was Jesus. we have ah We have a broad understanding of Word in the Lutheran tradition.

20:22.55
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, but I agree with you. I like how like this is, this points to the, the same God who was active at the time of Isaiah and these other prophets is the, is the same God that's active at the time of Paul, though in a new way.

20:35.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

20:42.42
Kevin Shock
um but we can see the the common thread, and it's the same God who's active in the church and in the world today. Yeah, I, I appreciate you lifting that up.

20:53.50
Kevin Shock
This is all part of the same strategy, plan, nature of who God is.

20:53.89
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

21:02.10
Nathan Pile
yeah, Yeah, I agree with you. ah When we get into this idea of God plan, that it' ah I'm, I'm more uncomfortable with that. God's nature feels better to me.

21:12.99
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

21:13.97
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that this is the nature of God, as opposed to that, that I don't, I guess, as I look at this the world and, and in my own theology, I don't think that God has got a specific, um like, this is the way everything is going to go.

21:14.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm

21:30.39
Nathan Pile
God has a sense by God's nature of how God will steer and guide the world.

21:30.73
Kevin Shock
hmm.

21:36.73
Nathan Pile
Um, but it's not, um, like for Kevin, I want this. For Nathan,

21:47.93
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right.

21:48.66
Nathan Pile
I want that, like that, that, that doesn't seem to, to fit with again, the rest of my system of theology.

21:50.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

21:56.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. or, Or it may be, you know, for this person, I want this.

21:57.71
Nathan Pile
So,

22:01.56
Kevin Shock
um But it's not in the sense of like,

22:07.54
Kevin Shock
it's not in the sense of like God putting a plan out there and being mysterious about what that plan is. And so we have to figure it out.

22:16.41
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

22:17.40
Kevin Shock
I don't think God is mysterious about the plan.

22:21.01
Nathan Pile
Right.

22:22.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, should I, should I bag groceries at Giant or Weis? What does God want me to do? Like, like, I know I've talked to people in my life that it gets down to that level. And it's like, it just, just go do faithfully what God, you know, wants you to do.

22:43.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And it, yeah, for me, even I don't, I don't, I shouldn't, maybe I shouldn't even say it. remember I was driving past some kind of like a business that um I think it was a car dealership that very prominently had a cross in the logo of the car dealership.

23:03.54
Kevin Shock
And I thought to myself, what exactly does it mean? Like how, how does a Christian car dealer operate differently than a like non-Christian car dealer? I don't, does, does that person not do, do they um do they give the cars away without, with zero interest loans?

23:27.58
Kevin Shock
Cause that seems like a Christian thing to do.

23:29.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that should be.

23:29.27
Kevin Shock
I doubt that's the case.

23:30.11
Nathan Pile
That would be. But I, yeah, I imagine that's not the case.

23:31.38
Kevin Shock
ah I doubt that's the case.

23:32.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:33.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. So like I just, when you have it, when you have a cross or a Christian fish in your business logo, like what? you know it's, it's the, It's the whole like legendary Luther notion of um the way that a Christian is a...

23:41.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:48.18
Kevin Shock
you know a and you know ah ah A shoe cobbler is a Christian shoe cobbler because they are good at making shoes and they you know deal deal fairly with the public.

24:01.22
Kevin Shock
I, you know, if that's, If that's your calling, let that be your calling. Yeah. All right. a Second time.

24:11.35
Nathan Pile
Second time through.

24:12.28
Kevin Shock
From Romans 10.

24:16.57
Kevin Shock
For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the law. The one who does these things will live by them but the righteousness that is by faith says do not say in your heart who will ascend into heaven that is to bring christ down or who will descend into the abyss that is to bring christ up from the dead But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.

24:35.67
Kevin Shock
That is the word of faith that we preach. Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation.

24:52.82
Kevin Shock
For the scripture says, everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who richly blesses all who call on him.

25:05.18
Kevin Shock
For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How are they to call on one that they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one that they have not heard of? And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them?

25:17.34
Kevin Shock
And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, how timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news. Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

25:30.81
Nathan Pile
Um,

25:34.58
Nathan Pile
I think it's two, twofold. Um, and it goes, you know, some of it obviously connects to that first answer for me. Um, first that we're reminded that we are blessed, um, as a part of a, a tradition and a community of faith that goes back thousands of years, um,

25:46.80
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

25:58.20
Nathan Pile
um God is constantly reminding all people of all generations that they are blessed. um and, And out of that blessing

26:11.93
Nathan Pile
um

26:14.17
Nathan Pile
comes, comes the, the, the calling to, to tell others, to preach, to proclaim, to um, to live out that, that gift, gift of blessedness in a way that delights God.

26:32.79
Nathan Pile
Um, and so this passage, um,

26:40.60
Nathan Pile
you know, is, is that reminder of being blessed and, and because of the, of God's blessings, I them, and I then am to help others know,

26:55.61
Nathan Pile
about the, the one who's in the world loving and caring and blessing the world.

27:01.30
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

27:01.43
Nathan Pile
Um, it's not that I have to do it, but I've been freed to do so. Um, uh, and, and so being able to, to, to, to live in that,

27:15.74
Nathan Pile
um

27:19.93
Nathan Pile
that richness of the, of this message of, of who we are as God's people. Um, um, whether it be in 2026 or you know fifty three c e or nine hundred b c e

27:41.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

27:41.43
Nathan Pile
um Now, again, it's not until the, the onset of Christ that we, we have this second promise from God, God which so doesn't really show up until you know after Jesus.

27:58.33
Nathan Pile
But it's still the same God. doesn't you know the, the, The forms of which God's nature produces in the world, how we understand it, how we can can begin to build our system, I think has changed over time a little bit as human beings. Obviously, as human beings have gotten, and don't want to say smarter, but we've, we've learned more. There's more knowledge in the world.

28:26.97
Nathan Pile
um We understand the, the natural world and the human world more than we did 3,000 years ago.

28:28.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

28:34.87
Nathan Pile
ah And so you know I don't want to make it that we're this you know the worth ah the superior to anyone who has come before us because the only reason we know stuff now is because they learned stuff then and and kept passing it on. um But I think because of that because of that human reality of of acquiring and and being curious and asking questions and digging into um

29:06.10
Nathan Pile
both ah understanding our natural world and understanding our humanness in the midst of that, and then ah trying to understand God, um we've we've learned things. And so we've been able to pass that on generation to generation.

29:22.58
Nathan Pile
um And so being being able to recognize how we're blessed, I think is, is is one of those, it's part of the gift, right? And I said this last week in, in that we, it's not that we need to, for God's sake, we don't need to accept the gift or um receive it. God's going to constantly give the, the gift, these gifts of, of, of love and forgiveness, of grace, of, of salvation. God, that, That's who God is. God's going to keep doing those things.

30:06.84
Nathan Pile
But in being able to see the blessing that we're given, to be able to be ah grateful for it, um and, and recognizing because of this is the, the nature of God that enters is breaking into the world, if others see it, it may also, will also transform their lives.

30:30.81
Nathan Pile
And so um God uses me then to help others see that.

30:37.03
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

30:37.78
Nathan Pile
So I think that those would be the, the two places I think this passage kind of calls me towards is, is recognizing, helping me recognize the blessings that, that God gives, gifts, to me.

30:56.15
Nathan Pile
um But then in that giftedness, in that giftedness also being called so that others two other two others may also be um

31:12.41
Nathan Pile
see, see that they are blessed, that they have been gifted, these things of God.

31:21.08
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

31:25.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think, I mean, it's my answer for a lot of things, but I think it's paying attention. I think it's paying attention whenever other people are delivering a word.

31:33.24
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

31:33.50
Kevin Shock
ah And, and, you know, I kind of made the kind of the twofold, not distinction, but that the word can be twofold, that it can be someone crying out, out of trust ah that, you know, crying out for Christ to help them, and or someone proclaiming the good things that God has done for them in Christ.

31:57.43
Kevin Shock
um And so, I, yeah, I think I think that there's a um being called to pay attention to those utterances of the word.

32:09.62
Kevin Shock
I think another thing that I'm called toward is to frame... frame the things that I say and do in the,

32:30.49
Kevin Shock
kind of in, in the, in the, what do want to say? Frame, frame what I say in the context of good news. um Not everything I speak is good news, but most things that I speak, whether they are um in a ministry setting or in everyday life, can be good news delivering.

32:54.52
Kevin Shock
Like they, they have the potential to have come from Christ. And so I think I need to pay attention to that. I think sometimes... um sometimes we have things that we want to say to people or do say to people and it just, and we chalk it up to us being nice or something like that. And sometimes, sometimes it might be more powerful than that.

33:19.54
Kevin Shock
Um, sometimes the things that we say in the ways that we interact with people might, might really be a gift from God. And I think I'm being called to pay attention to that.

33:31.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:33.67
Kevin Shock
Yep.

33:35.38
Nathan Pile
Well, and love what you've said there.

33:41.27
Nathan Pile
but I also know what's coming in on my third question. So I'll just put a pin in it um because I'm sure I'll bleed into that third question.

33:45.98
Kevin Shock
Okay. hey I had a... Hey, I had an idea for the third reading.

33:50.25
Nathan Pile
ah

33:53.98
Kevin Shock
do you think it would be helpful to the listeners for one of us to read as you read the main text for me to read the things that are in quotations or the highlights?

34:01.37
Nathan Pile
Oh, yeah, don't we try that? Yeah, don't we try that?

34:03.83
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right.

34:04.77
Nathan Pile
That's a good All right, third time through. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the law.

34:13.82
Kevin Shock
The one who does these things will live by them.

34:17.50
Nathan Pile
But the righteousness that is by faith says,

34:21.08
Kevin Shock
Do not say in your heart who will ascend into heaven,

34:25.30
Nathan Pile
that is to bring Christ down, or that is to bring Christ up from the dead.

34:28.86
Kevin Shock
who will descend into the abyss.

34:34.87
Nathan Pile
But what does it say?

34:37.37
Kevin Shock
The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.

34:41.46
Nathan Pile
That is the word of faith that we preach. Because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

34:54.20
Nathan Pile
For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation. For the scripture says,

35:06.90
Kevin Shock
Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.

35:10.71
Nathan Pile
For there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek. For the same Lord is Lord of all, who richly blesses all who call on him.

35:23.16
Nathan Pile
For.

35:24.01
Kevin Shock
Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

35:28.60
Nathan Pile
How are they to call on one they have not believed in? And how are they to believe in one they have not heard of?

35:39.45
Nathan Pile
And how are they to hear without someone preaching to them? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written.

35:49.30
Kevin Shock
How timely is the arrival of those who proclaim the good news?

35:56.44
Nathan Pile
What word is God putting in your heart and on your lips in this season, Kevin?

36:03.29
Kevin Shock
ah I, I really feel like I had, ah when I wrote this prep sheet a day ago, I feel like I had a real like profound answer to this, and now it's eluding me.

36:14.14
Kevin Shock
um I, But I think I actually think it's related to what I said for the second question, which is um to, to frame, to frame things in terms of good news. um that like, like that, the, The word,

36:36.79
Kevin Shock
the word that is speaking to me now is that the the word of God, the again, that expansive understanding of the word of God is always active and always powerful.

36:53.59
Kevin Shock
And it's what, it, the word is what brought creation into being, and the word is what builds the church.

37:01.79
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

37:02.90
Kevin Shock
and, and, and, And really, that exactly what we hear, that the word is near to us.

37:10.01
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

37:12.26
Kevin Shock
it's not, It's not something that's far away. It's something that is present in nearly every human interaction, present in you know the the creation around us, present in um yeah present, present in the the difficult work that we do and the, and the, and the joyful things that we do as well.

37:40.50
Kevin Shock
just I yeah we've we've gotten a lot of like in this in this green season of the church we've gotten a lot of like how effective the word is and how, um, how the word does not return empty when God sends it out and and uh how how powerful the word is in the lives of the people who are the faithful and not just not just the ones who are faithful but the ones who are longing for a good word too.

38:12.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

38:15.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So I think, I think just the, the, the power and the activity of the word is something that is resonating with me in this season.

38:26.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah. What about you, Nathan? What word is God putting in your heart and in your mouth?

38:32.21
Nathan Pile
Well, I've already said this a little bit and, and it was where I was going to go with your um your reflection in the last one. that's, It's that word of intentional. Like yeah Um, and, and that, and it's, and I guess the word isn't, yes, God is intentional, but I think in, in many ways, how might we as God's people be intentional? I think in, in some ways it, it echoes your thoughts, uh, as well, though I know that's not your word. the, the, this idea of, you know, um,

39:12.57
Nathan Pile
how do we, how do we think about the actions and words? ah you know, and I have talked really probably for now three and a half years about the, the, well, and we've talked before that too.

39:26.81
Nathan Pile
We've recorded it for three and a half years. We've probably talked about it for 20.

39:29.14
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

39:29.99
Nathan Pile
That, ah, that as God's people, like

39:39.48
Nathan Pile
We don't, like, again, God's love is, there's no strings attached. It's a gift. It's a free gift. It's, it's the best a gift that we can be given. Last time we talked about it being nourishing words, um but it's, it's free. It's ours. It's given to us.

39:57.34
Nathan Pile
um And so there's we don't have to do anything. But out of the overwhelmingness of the gift, one of the pieces that has stuck with me again since last fall is how can I, as a disciple of Christ, be intentional about how I'm going to live in love in the world?

40:19.06
Nathan Pile
How do I, how do I think about it? How do I practice it? How, because it's an overwhelming gift. I don't like none of, I don't ask any of these questions because I have to, ask these questions because,

40:31.32
Nathan Pile
um Because I've, I've been blessed by God's love and I want others to be blessed by God's love. um It's out of that motivation to do this.

40:38.70
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

40:41.80
Nathan Pile
And so how do we, how do we create intentional community? um

40:50.76
Nathan Pile
Intentional, and I guess the word loving would have to be in there, intentional loving community. How does it change us? And, and then, and, and that we be strategic and we think about that and, and then we make it a part of our life, you know, from time to time. I think last, last time we did this, you, you kind of gave us a, you know, we don't want to do this thing. And then people come and visit us in our churches and it doesn't, oh, it was marketing. You were talking about marketing. Now I remember you were like, we don't want to pay somebody to do this great marketing plan and we get people to come into the church. And yet when they come into the church, it doesn't feel like,

41:28.34
Nathan Pile
a place that's welcoming and loving and all of those pieces. Right.

41:31.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

41:31.38
Nathan Pile
um And so like, if we're, how do we, how do we be strategic? How do we, how do we be intentional about creating loving community? um Because if we're intentional about it, I think as people come in they'll see the genuine, authentic love of God in that space and place.

41:53.50
Nathan Pile
And that will be the thing that brings them back. And it won't be because like we'll be like, oh, we had such a great plan. like I guess that's the thing about the word intentional for me is like, like yeah, we do some planning and we do some thinking about it, um but it, but it just becomes who we are.

42:04.01
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

42:12.92
Nathan Pile
And so it's, it's, it, it becomes our practice. And because of that, then it's not... It's not about having um goals.

42:23.05
Nathan Pile
and, And even though I talked about being strategic and and and in my head, I would do it by creating goals and saying, how are we going to accomplish these goals? and like That would be the strategic part of it because that's how I know how to function ah in a group of people.

42:35.43
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

42:37.30
Nathan Pile
but But essentially the goal would be that that we take those things and it becomes who we are. It becomes embedded in us.

42:49.94
Nathan Pile
And so, and, and so I guess that's a part of this intentionality for me is that it, that it's not just that we make a checklist of to-do list. like That's one way of being intentional. but But being intentional in such a way that that the things that we do also mold and form us in to be that loving community and that we are, in the end, loving.

43:16.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

43:18.07
Nathan Pile
And so, um, and so that that's, you know, that would be, I think the, the, the thing that feels like, um that it's out there, that it's, that it's just beyond our reach right now and, and would be the thing that I would want us as the church, as God's people, as a community of faith to reach out and grab onto and pull in is that that idea of being intentional so that it that it changes us. It makes us genuine and authentic in the identity of, of what it is that we're trying to be intentional about.

43:59.64
Nathan Pile
So that's my, that's my two cents.

44:00.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes me wonder, like, I um intentional has become like a buzzword in the church.

44:11.16
Kevin Shock
and, and, And so I wonder if, like,

44:16.73
Kevin Shock
I wonder if there's a different word and I'm not, I'm not criticizing your choice of words.

44:21.64
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

44:21.68
Kevin Shock
I just like what, sometimes I wonder if people, if people who aren't, you know, like in, in the church professional world, if they know what intentional means, I, I, you know, I like, because I think it means doing everything we do with intention.

44:42.23
Kevin Shock
And to me, that's with forethought. So, so maybe, you know, like thoughtful is a different word to consider. um ah yeah, yeah, I'm just, I'm curious. I'm always trying to think of like, you different ways to articulate things, but.

44:59.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

45:00.50
Kevin Shock
um

45:00.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. I would. um It's funny. You said it would become a church word. It was the place where I encountered it, that it had a profound impact on me was, was at a training of camp directors.

45:14.94
Nathan Pile
It was a, somebody was giving a lecture um,

45:15.66
Kevin Shock
Oh, okay.

45:19.48
Nathan Pile
like when we're talking about building inclusive community, um, and it wasn't just inclusive. it was all of the aspects of camp. The person was kind of talking, but as we were, as building community, like, are we being intentional?

45:33.16
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

45:34.85
Nathan Pile
Are we thinking through each of the steps that, that it's really, that it's really going to take for us to do this? And then, um

45:47.64
Nathan Pile
what knowing what all knowing what those steps are then being able to kind of launch into that and, and help to form the community in those ways um and so thoughtful is one of those pieces um I don't want to use a church if, if, if intentional is becoming a church

46:08.92
Kevin Shock
Well, no, no, I, I think I know again, I think it's a fine word, but I, I appreciate what you did there and you just unpacked it a little bit like that.

46:17.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

46:18.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I, yeah, I think having forethought to think about the consequences of our actions or inactions, um, is an important thing for us to do.

46:18.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

46:30.55
Kevin Shock
And, uh, and like, you know, church is a place where a lot of us feel comfortable. So it's easy to go into church and worship, specifically, I'm thinking, when I say church.

46:44.36
Kevin Shock
But it could be other aspects of the church as well. It's easy to go into worship and just kind of be relaxed and not um not be thinking about how, like, what if a, what if a stranger walks in the room?

46:47.65
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

46:58.29
Kevin Shock
How am I going to respond? um you know, to just sit in my pew and do the things that I do and be around the people that I like. it's It's different if we go in our

47:14.73
Kevin Shock
focus, I don't know focus is the right word, but our our our worldview for that moment is looking out for the people who are on the margins or who the people who might not feel comfortable in that space or, um yeah to look for how how we're binding the community together and not just sitting in a pew.

47:36.22
Kevin Shock
Like that that to me is what intention is about. Yeah, yeah.

47:40.82
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

47:46.42
Kevin Shock
All right. Any other thoughts?

47:49.08
Nathan Pile
No.

47:50.26
Kevin Shock
Okay.

47:51.29
Nathan Pile
ah That's, that, you, the way we read that, that time though, um, does, does, did make me want to dig in deeper into who will ascend to heaven and who will descend into the abyss.

48:04.31
Nathan Pile
as the way that we read that, that time, um, did want me to, you know, again, what is, um what is Paul again, he's using, I get these using quotations, but what is he trying to help us as the reader get out of this?

48:04.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah

48:21.91
Kevin Shock
hey

48:22.89
Nathan Pile
So, but,

48:23.61
Kevin Shock
Well, the I mean, the quick answer for me is that he's, he's proving a point that um this is not something that ah the word is not something that is so far away from us that we need someone else to go and retrieve it for us.

48:40.07
Kevin Shock
It's something that God has already delivered to us and is right, right in front of us.

48:41.91
Nathan Pile
Right.

48:43.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

48:44.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah, we don't need to go pull God down or bring, pull God up.

48:44.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

48:49.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:49.05
Nathan Pile
um The word is present. Yeah.

48:52.00
Kevin Shock
Or have someone else do that for us. Yeah. I mean, I think that that can translate, without going too deep into it, translate into other things of the church. Like, you know, um who's, who's the, who's the one, who's going to welcome the strangers in? Well, you have the ability to do it.

49:11.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

49:11.16
Kevin Shock
ah yeah I mean, every everything that we have to do to build the church, God has already delivered to us.

49:17.16
Nathan Pile
Right.

49:17.53
Kevin Shock
And that's something that's easy to forget. Yeah.

49:20.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

49:21.82
Kevin Shock
All right.

49:22.22
Nathan Pile
Yep. Yeah. If we're, if we're, if we're living into authentic, genuine, loving community, I, I don't, yeah, we're not going to have to do a lot of evangelism.

49:36.79
Kevin Shock
No, because that is our evangelism.

49:37.08
Nathan Pile
We, we will do it naturally. We'll do it naturally.

49:38.97
Kevin Shock
That's, that's, that is our evangelism. Right. Right. That's an evangelism. Unpack that word. Telling good news.

49:46.62
Nathan Pile
Telling good news. yeah, Proclaiming.

49:48.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

49:50.36
Nathan Pile
In a timely manner.

49:50.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah, what?

49:51.67
Nathan Pile
In a timely manner.

49:51.74
Kevin Shock
Right. Right. What, what is better news to a stranger than for them to come to a congregation and leave that congregation thinking, thinking, thinking to themselves?

50:04.73
Kevin Shock
Oh, I really felt welcome there. And I feel like I can be myself there. Like, that's great news. And then, and then all of the, all of the doctrine and all of the teaching and all of the other stuff, they will pick that up.

50:12.18
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah

50:20.44
Kevin Shock
But the best news they could receive on the first day walking into a congregation is that they feel like they can be themselves and they can be welcomed there.

50:29.52
Nathan Pile
yeah

50:30.27
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Who doesn't want that? Yeah.

50:35.45
Nathan Pile
agreed

50:36.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay. Additional texts. 1 Kings 19 verses 9 through 18. The Lord speaks to Elijah on Mount Horeb. Psalm 85, verses 8 through 13, I will listen to what the Lord God is saying.

50:50.33
Kevin Shock
And Matthew 14, verses 22 to 33, is the story of Jesus walking on the rough sea. And then looking at the broad strokes of Hebrew scripture, ah the semi-continuous readings, Genesis 37, verses through and Joseph is sold by his brothers.

51:14.80
Kevin Shock
And Psalm 105 verses one through six sixteen through twenty two And which is just the word hallelujah, make known the deeds of the Lord among the peoples.

51:25.39
Kevin Shock
Hallelujah.

51:27.13
Nathan Pile
Which is just the word hallelujah.

51:31.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I know, you know when it's just like the last verse and a B that it's just praise the Lord or hallelujah.

51:31.61
Nathan Pile
ah There you go.

51:37.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah, one of those.

51:38.14
Kevin Shock
All right. um So we want to hear your reflections on how the word is impacting you and what word is on your lips and in your heart in this season. And thank you for the conversation as always, Nathan.

51:49.82
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

51:50.62
Kevin Shock
We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

51:54.39
Nathan Pile
And peace.