Ed

Hey all, this is Ed. And this is Kara. And this is your day's dumpster fire. Holy Lord, has it been a lot of time?

Kara

We've had a lot going on though.

Ed

We did. Well, well, we do.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

It's one of those things where you persuaded me to join forces with you. Yeah. And the whole education scene. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, uh audience, if if you think that the chicanery on on our little podcast here is crazy, just bear in mind that Kara and I are now sharing a classroom. Of middle schoolers. Middle schoolers and God bless them. I love them all. But I think they all have ADHD squared and everything everything else going on, uh, plus hormones and whatnot. But yeah, we are sharing, we are co-teaching, we are now in the same room, but just dealing with the future of America. It's fine. It's fine. We're doing it. Yeah, it's perfectly fine. Yeah. Uh, like legitimately, these kids are absolutely amazing. They are these bundles of potential.

Kara

Yeah, they're awesome.

Ed

Yeah, yeah. No, it's it's like these kids, these middle schoolers are encapsulated, uh, highly concentrated containers of energy and veracity and argumentation, and they're just what a tiny little package of what America needs waiting to be sent out to the world to fix stuff. Yeah, yeah, it it's yeah, it's it's a weird analogy. In the meantime, they are lovable, tricky, clever, just yeah, they're just over the top, and like we love them, they are our children, our assigned children, but then also they are going to be the future of America, and you and I, you know, now I guess I can call you Miss Carrot now. Uh, you and I are at the forefront of taking these kids and unlike embracing failure and embracing what that looks like and cherishing their successes so that they don't have to declare war on some emus in West Australia.

Kara

I just had the best mental image of our group of children going off to war. Against the emus? With the emus.

Ed

With the emus.

Kara

In my brains, they are running with them. If you guys are listening, that is a grand compliment.

Ed

I totally I I can envision 37 of our total 19 kids. No, 17 kids just we're we are emus and we are gonna wreak havoc.

Kara

Yeah, they're just running with them. It's it's majestic, really.

Ed

It is, yeah, like you have like evangelism running in the background, all this inspirational music running in the background, and it's these kids that are absolute nightmares to teachers that aren't prepared, these are absolute terrors, banshees of students that that people don't want to address, but society, our government, our cultural norms, our everything. These are the kids that will come out from the other side of this, and you'll quickly see that these are the kids that we truly need running this country.

Kara

I can agree. I can agree. I can agree there.

Ed

Yeah, it it's complicated because they are all dealing with insanely complicated matters, but they're handling it with like grace, they are handling it with courtesy, they are handling it with uh uh a huge degree of professionalism, and it's something that I don't know. I I'm glad you brought me back into this education scene because that's where I came from, but I'm I'm glad I get to see that these kiddos are half their lives, they are kind of like, you know, as teenagers, they're sorting through a lot of stuff, but on the other half, they are slaying it, they are figuring it out, they are they are moving through it.

Kara

Oh yeah, and shouts, drops, yeah.

Ed

It it it's absolutely incredible because I know you and I kind of grew up uh within a decade. Yeah, I know I'm like 10 years older and and whatnot, and you just I don't know, you like today as we were recording this, you just turned 14. 14 just be prepared for when you come to work tomorrow.

Kara

It's probably gonna be like two year old, happy two years old, something like that. No excited.

Ed

No, nope, nope, nope. The the class and I got together.

Kara

Uh we did not get with them.

Ed

You you are turning 16 tomorrow.

Kara

Oh, great.

Ed

Because we all know that like you're kind of short.

Kara

Yep.

Ed

And I don't want to say scrawny.

Kara

I'm scrawny.

Ed

Well, I don't want to say scrawny in like a negative way. I want to say scrawny in like you are a powerhouse, maybe a couple sticks of dynamite in a tiny little package. That's accurate. Yes. Like, I I I I don't want to portray this idea that that that you're insignificant because based off of what I've seen and what your bosses have said and what has gone down in the past, like you are a nuclear bomb. And here's the thing: you beat me to it. Boom. Well, not just a boom, you after we have just recorded our Oppie's Demon Core episode, you decide to recruit me to help. I don't want to say help, I'm not helping, but uh you recorded me to recruited, you recruited me to come aboard and try to teach something to these future emperors of our classroom, and then you go watch this movie after we recorded that episode of Oppenheimer and the significance and the technology of how to make a nuclear bomb. Audience, I want you to pay attention. I had to edit out at least 48 yawns.

Kara

I was tired that day. I was so tired. I promise I I was obviously paying attention because I just got back from Santa Fe, New Mexico last weekend.

Ed

Yes, and that's why I am pissed. That's the reason why I'm so angry, is because I talked up this gigantic episode about Oppenheimer and how these bombs are made, and and all of the cool things that they figured out with math and stuff, and then you see this movie, you see the Oppenheimer movie, and you're like, hey husband, let's just go and check it out.

Kara

To be fair, it wasn't just the movie, as I'm sure a lot of you already know. I am a big history nut. So I I see Manhattan Project, and my husband's like, How about New Mexico? And I'm like, Manhattan Project? And that's kind of how the conversation went.

Ed

So, okay, so I have to ask, was this planned before the uh Oppenheimer movie came out, or our um or episode came out, or was it as a solidifier, or was it one of those things where you're like, hey, we just recorded this episode about J. Robert Oppenheimer, and we're big fans of Breaking Bad, and let's go to Albuquerque.

Kara

It was a little bit before the movie even came out. So I would say we were talking about doing it like mid-July.

Ed

Oh, really? Okay, alright. Yeah. So this was after that you knew that I was gonna be hired, and I had to watch our class for like Friday through a Monday, and you did fine. It was gonna be complete chaos because these kids are the most highly concentrated tango forms of energy ever. You knew that before I was coming on board.

Kara

No one died. We're fine. In fact, that Friday I wasn't there, it was probably the best Friday that you guys have had, and I wasn't there, and I was like, is it me?

Ed

Yeah, no, it was oh goodness. Uh, did you hear that? Yeah, yeah, that's my bird. It's fine. Or extra it it's Kathleen's bird, my wife's bird. His name is Tuco.

Kara

Speaking of Albuquerque.

Ed

Speaking of Albuquerque, that we we inherited, I don't know if we inherited it, we we adopted this really weird, rare Amazon bird. He's like in his 30s, 40s, 50s, or 90s, I don't know. We inherited this bird, and he's like a wild-caught bird, and mo most Amazons that are over like 10 years and older, they're all wild-caught. And so when you have one in your house, they just go ballistic in the background, and they go off of threes. It's like tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, tight. Like, I I want I I don't want 20, I want 60, and and the yeah.

Kara

He's uh just consider him a guest on the show. Don't worry about it if you're a it's fine.

Ed

Yeah, it's just my daughter's slash wife's pet Amazon trying to sell meth in the background.

Kara

Perfect, some sky blue.

Ed

Sky blue, which you got me.

Kara

I got you fake sky blue. Please don't get me arrested. It's candy, everybody. It's candy.

Ed

It is candy. I had some and it was the best trip of my life.

Kara

It's like peppermint.

Ed

It it well, I mean, when I got done off the trip, and you know, like I was thinking, like, oh wow, this blue tastes like blue. And if white tasted like white, this would be it. And if this purple was purple, it would taste like purple.

Kara

So speaking of all those colors, this would be such a bad segue.

Ed

This is a terrible segue.

Kara

This is a really bad segue. All those colors coming together in a telescope, what happens?

Ed

Yeah, okay. You're welcome. I tried. I really tried to figure out some sort of wiki.

Kara

I was I was trying to to come come meet you halfway. It didn't work. It's fine.

Ed

Anyway, yeah, yeah. No, I've I it it is currently we we started our recording at eight o'clock, maybe a little after. I want to try to finish this by four o'clock in the morning. However, the process that it takes to edit out all of Kara's yawns and sniffles, when I when I drone on, I I get it. It's yeah, it it it's brutal, it's not fair to everybody. I'm used. Anyway, it's fine. It's fine. It's perfect.

Kara

Let's let's talk about this awesome telescope.

Ed

So what I wanna do, what I want to talk about is the Hubble Space Telescope. We're talking about a tube with two mirrors in it that's just orbiting Earth, right? This this tube and and mirrors and and crap in it orbits Earth and it orbits Earth every 90 minutes, plus or minus 90 minutes. That's how precise I am. And this telescope, like the theme of our show is okay, let's plan out everything, let's map out everything, let's take care of every possible variable that could mess something up. And in 1923, oh crap, can you hear me?

Kara

Yeah, I was listening.

Ed

Sorry, I was adjusting the wrong knob. Yay for editing. In 1923, a lot of astronomers were trying to like peer into the sky, we're looking at planets, we're looking at stars and and all that stuff, and so they were looking into the sky, and they realize that crap, there's a certain point where we can't see any further. Why is that? Oh, it's because our universe ends at a certain point. This was an idea that was kind of filler-ish until a guy by the name of Edwin Hubble was like, Okay, let me dig into one of these fuzzy blobs. Everybody had a name for this particular fuzzy blob, they named it Andranoma. It's an object in the sky, and after you listen to this episode, not not now. I don't don't we like we need you to click like like and and subscribe and and all that fun stuff. But after you do all of that, I want you to finish your episode, hop in a car, drive out to the middle of nowhere, kind of in the fall or winter. And if you're going out in the middle of winter, make sure you bring warm clothing and all that stuff because it sucks to be cold out there. But I want you to look in the sky, I want you to look in the constellation, Andromeda, and you will see this really weird oval blob in the sky. Sweet. That is that is the Andromeda Galaxy. That is a galaxy far, far away. I'm pretty sure if if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably also watching Ahsoka and Mandalorian and and all that kind of stuff. If you are, stop what you're doing and watch it all over again because it's freaking awesome. Agreed. You're welcome, Disney. Like, just comprehend that that galaxy, this blob that you're looking out into space, is 2.2 million light years away. Each light year consists of like, what is it? Goodness.

Kara

Um, sure. Yeah. Off the top.

Ed

Oh, of course. So what you came up with is like 4.5 to 5 trillion miles away. That that is that what you came up with? Um, sure. Yeah. Yeah, well, perfect. That's what I came up with.

Kara

See if we're doing it.

Ed

Yeah, see, if you're getting this off the internet, you know it is correct.

Kara

That's right.

Ed

Because yeah, only only accurate information can come off the internet. Oh, yeah. Not because two nerds in Arizona are like trying to figure this stuff out off the top of their heads. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Dumpster fire. So the idea was this Edwin Hubble took a big telescope, pointed it at a big blurry object in the sky. If anybody listening here goes out into the middle of nowhere in the fall or autumn or whatever, and you look up in the sky and you see kind of a weird little oval blob in the sky, that's the Andromeda Galaxy. That is the galaxy that is the furthest away object that you can ever see with your human eyes. It is 2.2 million light years away. In case if you're wondering what that is, just multiply it by like trillions and trillions and trillions. It's it's it's out there. So, yes, you can throw yourself into the mouth of some weird whale. I'm totally spoiling up for you, Care. Um, it's fine. You can throw yourself like Pinocchio in some giant intergalactic space whale that can travel between worlds, then yeah, you can hit that galaxy.

Kara

That sounds very attainable. I think it's logically and logistically very, very knowable.

Ed

It's easy. Yeah. Yeah. But but here's the thing: when you're standing on Earth looking through a telescope, if you're standing on Earth looking out in the sky, all you will see is this pathetic little gray oval blob in the sky. And when when you hit me up and like, hey, yeah, no, can I look through your big giant telescope? And you look through it, and all you see is a gray blob. You're like, wow, that's underwhelming. And that's the thing. That is the thing about astronomy, that is the thing about backyard astronomy. This is the thing about science, is you are looking for something that is so unbelievably incredible, but it comes back so unbelievably underwhelming. And the reason why this happens is because our atmosphere is filled with all sorts of weird gases like nitrogen and oxygen and trace amounts of weird gases like you know argon and neon and and whatnot. But then when you get closer to the ground level, you are dealing with things that go from our ground level up to four or five hundred feet up in the in the air, now you're dealing with dust, and then when you get really close to the ground level, you're dealing with something that is containing water. So, what I want you to do is think about what would something look like when you're looking through water, looking through dust, looking through argon. If you don't know what that means, you're fine. Look through argon, pass this. Argon is a loser. It tried, it doesn't know what it's doing, but then look through oxygen. Oxygen does oxygen anything. At oxygen any times, and oxygen does all sorts of really, really, really weird stuff because oxygen, if you look at it, the periodic table of elements is a teenager. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't know what side it's on, right? Oxygen is one of these things is where it's like, okay, I don't want to be a jerk, but everything to the left of me, I'm just gonna take, and to everything to the right of me, I'm just gonna be a part of, and and because oxygen kind of like balls in the middle there, there's arguments of what it's gonna do, and when it does that, it disperses light everywhere. Then you get nitrogen. Nitrogen is a jerk. Nitrogen is a cheapskate, nitrogen is the reason why when you buy a bag of chips and you open it up, there's like four chips in the bottom.

Kara

Sweet. We love that guy.

Ed

Yeah, no, nitrogen is the biggest cheapskate out there, and what's happening is that nitrogen will disperse light everywhere when the sunlight hits Earth, it hits that nitrogen, it hits that oxygen, it hits that, you know, trace amounts of elements and gases, it hits that dust, it hits that water, and everything that is comprised of that beam of light from the sun just gets dispersed everywhere.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

The last of that light that hits your eyes is blue. So when you look up in the sky and all you see is blue, it's because Earth's atmosphere is messing with everything and dispersing it so that eventually the sun's light hits your eye meet and it's blue. Okay, okay, cool. Yeah, that's that's the reason why the sky is blue.

Kara

Cool, cool, cool. Alright.

Ed

Alright.

Kara

So I'm with it. I'm here.

Ed

Okay. I'm 30 minutes in. I've got 30 minutes to go to explain everything else.

Kara

Awesome. I do need to take a quick pause.

Ed

You gotta pee.

Kara

Dog's gotta pee.

Ed

I gotta pee.

Kara

Alright, pee break.

Ed

Pee break.

Kara

B R V.

Ed

Okay, so all of the animals in our household are now have devoid bladders.

Kara

Yes. Same.

Ed

And I cleaned my water bottle because it smelled like beet.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

Kinda weird.

Kara

Just a bit.

Ed

Here's the thing. It it quickly became aware in the 1920s that we needed to get a telescope above our atmosphere. We needed to get a telescope above everything in our atmosphere that would cause problems. And so we needed to get something out into space. And this is what started like a 60-year conversation. And yeah, yeah, it it's crazy because you ask yourself, like, why a space telescope? And here's the thing: when ultimately in uh what is it like 1990, when the Hubble Space Telescope finally came about and was in space, but it wasn't the biggest mirror, it wasn't the biggest anything. The only thing that I had going for it was that it didn't have to answer to our atmospheric distortions, right? All the gases in the atmosphere, all the weird moisture levels, all the temperature differences, none of that had to answer to a telescope that was in space.

Kara

Okay, that makes sense.

Ed

Yeah, it does. It makes a lot of sense, and so even though the Hubble Space Telescope, and they didn't have a name for it at that time, you know, going as early as 1960 and all that stuff, they didn't have a name for it. I'm calling it the Hubble Space Telescope because, well, that's you know, that's what a the name of it. That's what would become the name of it, yeah. Yeah, like when we go back into the 50s and the 60s, we've got the space race, we've got trying to land on the moon and all that stuff, but it was in the 1950s and 1960s that people were talking about the idea of you know, let's launch a space telescope. What could be had if we send a telescope out into space orbiting Earth? And there's a whole litany of complicated ways on how you photograph uh anything from planets to nebulas. Nebulas tend to reside in our galaxy, and then you've got other galaxies and and superclusters and all that stuff. It's just like, all right, cool. How do we get something that high up in the sky?

Kara

Yeah, that would be logistically uh a difficult thing to figure out.

Ed

Yeah, it it's very expensive, and so like when we look at the 1960s, the beginning of the 1960s, we were still trying to figure out how to sustain a human being in orbit around Earth. Obviously, by the time we hit 1969, we were like hitting golf balls off the moon, right? Cool us. But there's a person I want everybody who's listening, I want everybody after that they listen to our podcast and like and subscribe and share and all that stuff. I want everybody to look up Dr. Nancy Grace Roman.

Kara

Okay, I'm doing it.

Ed

This lady spent a massive chunk of her career promoting the idea that we need to put a telescope in space orbiting Earth that is not affected by our atmosphere. And in the 1960s, she was like the pioneering person out there. She was all about the first orbiting astronomical observatory or the OAO-1, and then a few years later they sent out the OAO-2 because you know scientists are very very clever, creative and original, yeah. Oh, oh, yeah. One following two, what's kind of like Terminator false terminator two? Cool. So there was also in the 1960s, on top of trying to send man to the moon, uh, America was sending out solar observatories, they were trying to send out other telescopes, like the large orbiting telescope, or better yet, known as the LST. Like they were trying to send out more and more telescopes up into the sky that could um work above Earth's atmosphere, they had to be completely battery-powered, they had to be completely self-sustaining, they had to be auto-tracking. One of the big things, the biggest things about astrophotography is if you're trying to photograph a galaxy in your backyard, you can't just point a telescope or a fancy camera up into the sky and hit the shutter release. Yeah, it doesn't work. You need to take tens, hundreds, thousands of little frames that are maybe two to twenty seconds in length, and you need to take thousands of them, and then you need to stack them together, and every single frame has to be perfectly tracked when we're talking about imaging a nebula or a galaxy or a star cluster or whatever. All of that had to be perfectly tracked down to like a millionth of an inch. Cool.

Kara

Sweet, and that kids is why whenever you take a picture of the moon with your cell phone when it looks really cool, it doesn't look really cool on the phone.

Ed

No, I I'm so glad you brought that up because it freaking sucks.

Kara

Yeah, it's very annoying, actually.

Ed

But yeah, it I mean there's a reason. Yeah, yeah, like you you just spent like thousands of dollars on this fancy phone that can zoom in to all these really weird magnifications, and then when you take your picture and then you look at it again, especially the moon, which is about the same size as the sun, visually, you look at it and it's a white dot in your picture.

Kara

Yeah, like you know, yeah.

Ed

Anyway, yeah, yeah, that's just where you call up your cell phone care and you're like, I want my money back.

Kara

Yeah, like man, I tried to take the super cool picture of the harvest moon, it's all orange and yellow and awesome, but it's just a white dot. It's just trash.

Ed

Oh my god, I'm I'm so happy that you brought that up because like taking a picture of something that is a quarter million miles away is really, really hard. Taking a picture of something that is light years away is even harder. Taking pictures of something that is millions and tens and hundreds of million light years away is even harder. So, and that and like that is what's so hard about all this while you're sitting on the ground on Earth with the telescope with a drive that is accurately following everything. Now, imagine taking that telescope, throwing it out into space, throwing it out into Earth's orbit, and multiply that speed up by thousands of miles an hour, and then still trying to track the same thing. Yeah, it gets it gets a lot more complicated.

Kara

Okay, I believe it.

Ed

Yeah, because you like here, like you and I can set up a telescope and are outside our classroom, and I have I have a mount that holds my telescope in place and it tracks it throughout the sky, and it will keep it in the center of the frame. Fair enough, cool. Yeah, I I know we're setting things up for a gigantic solar eclipse. Fair enough, that's fine. It will it'll track that. But when you are trying to keep track of an object that is the size of one of your little knuckle hairs on your pinky finger at arm's length for hours, if not days at a time, it's that you know, yeah. That gets that gets kind of complicated, and and then you multiply that by the fact that you have a telescope in space that's orbiting Earth every 90 minutes. It's it it's a very, very complicated process, and this is the thing that NASA in the 60s and the 70s and the 80s, they were trying to work out. Yeah, it is easier to land a man on the moon than it is to put a tube orbiting Earth with some mirrors in it taking pictures. So here's what had to be done. When we look at the 1970s, actually, when we look at World War II, there was a massive economic boom. It would it was wild. This is where we get the baby boomers from, this is where a lot of the younger listeners here get their grandparents from. There was money galore that we could throw into anything and everything, and we would be okay, including landing a person on the moon. But by the time NASA said in the 60s, all right, let's put a telescope into space, let's put a highly advanced tube of mirrors and cameras into space, go for it. But by the time they did that, though, the economy was slowing down. There was Vietnam, there was Watergate, there was all sorts of stuff. Yeah, and a lot of politicians were like, okay, why are we so focused on spending all this money to put a tube in orbit around Earth that could take fancy pictures that nobody's gonna care about?

Kara

I also want to note too, um, just historically speaking, that's around the time JFK was shot, and JFK was uh really big on space exploration and NASA and all of that stuff, so that probably also had something to do with that.

Ed

Yes, that is a fantastic call out. When JFK died from that splitting migraine, you left, I didn't.

Kara

I yeah, I I know. I immediately felt bad. Good job though, solid.

Ed

Uh when JFK died, his big thing was we need to put man on the moon, we need to put man on the moon before the end of this decade. Uh, not because is it easy, but it is because it is hard. Everything focused on that, everything focused on winning the space race in the name of Kennedy's legacy. So what you brought up there was a major, major variable into what delayed the creation of the Hubble Space Telescope.

unknown

Yeah.

Ed

And the funny thing is, is I'm looking through my notes here. I don't even see that.

Kara

That's just something that I thought about.

Ed

Yeah, like this is something that you put together out of my like seven pages of notes, like history baby. I didn't even think of that.

Kara

That's my wheelhouse. You're welcome.

Ed

Yeah, I appreciate that. I uh I'm gonna cite my sources, everything is gonna be care.

Kara

No, no, cite your sources correctly. NASA.com.

Ed

Uh we'll say government.gov because you know everything that comes out of the government is is accurate. But that's right. But but no, you you you bring up a good point, is yeah, the emphasis of the country in the 60s was to put man on the moon. Nobody cared about a tube in space with mirrors in it. Yep. And when you when you factor in the highly complicated technology that has to go into that, it is actually easier to train a couple of pilots to land on the moon than it is to put a telescope into space that could take images based upon the parameters I just laid out, where this thing orbits Earth every 90 minutes, therefore, it only has a 90-minute exposure level, therefore, when it whoops around Earth, it's gotta reposition itself perfectly so that it can take another 90-minute exposure and on and on and on. Yeah, I I never thought of that. Um, which ties into 1974, where NASA administrator James C. Fletcher proposed a five million dollar token to help build or get the the Hubble telescope going. The issue is that they needed more, and NASA needed a lot more money in 1974 to get this thing going. Jeez. So NASA's associated or associate administrator for space and science, Noel, or I think it's Noel. Maybe it's Noel.

Kara

It's man or woman.

Ed

I don't know.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

I apologize.

Kara

Yeah, we're sorry, guys. We don't know.

Ed

Dr. Heiner's.

Kara

Yeah, that's that's good.

Ed

Boom.

Kara

Done.

Ed

Uh instead, cut all funding for the telescope. So NASA was originally gonna put like bait in the water for a okay, guys, we're gonna uh uh to the science community, right? To all the universities and and whatnot. Uh we're gonna put this bait in the water for five million dollars. This will kind of get things going, but cool. But then immediately afterwards, that was revoked, and suddenly it was like, hey, I know we were gonna offer five million dollars in 1974 to start this project, but we don't even have that, so we need everybody to donate whatever they can. Yeah, it's a huge gamble, yeah, it's a dangerous gamble, and what ultimately happened is all of the uh the uh astronomer nerds, the astronomer professors, the astrophysics professors, all these universities, they lost their minds and they're like, Yeah, no, it's cool that we put a man on the moon and bring back some rocks. What's not cool is everything else in the universe that we are now blind to, yeah. And because of this tactic, it like universities and wealthy people, uh, investors, like I don't want to say Elon Musk because he would have just built his own telescope and put it into space, but like suddenly America was like crap. Yeah, it's cool that we put a man on the moon, but we gotta get something into space that can photograph something that even a man on the moon can't photograph. Eventually, Congress approved a $50 million. Uh I'm sorry, they approved 50% of the original funding request.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

Ed

So, oh man, what was that? That was like uh proposed a five million dollar token. Uh okay, yeah. So eventually Congress approved 50% of the original funding request. All right, cool. There's 2.5 million.

Kara

Cool. That'll that'll cover it.

Ed

This thing, this project, what's that?

Kara

So that'll cover it.

Ed

Oh, yeah. 2.5 million, that's fine.

Kara

Easy.

Ed

This is where it goes crazy, and this is where we get into the construction issues because NASA did have a plan in place. NASA always has a plan in place. Um, so given that the funding was only half of what NASA wanted or what NASA needed from the federal government, if you factor in inflation, 36 million to 168 million by today's standards. Yeah, like NASA was having to cut a lot of costs in the mid to late 70s to build this telescope. The original three-meter mirror got shrunk down to 2.4 meters. Okay, fair enough. Uh, that is the size of your I it's actually smaller than your average master bedroom. Think about a mirror that could fit in your your guest bedroom.

Kara

Okay, yeah.

Ed

Right. Yeah, we're talking uh about a mirror that's only 12, maybe 14 feet across.

Kara

Okay, yeah, yeah. I could I could see that being the guest bed, kids' room, you know.

Ed

Gotta put it in a tube and throw in a rocket, send out into space where it can't come out of alignment, and uh yeah, we'll see what happens. Cool, easy. It was cheaper, but also made the engineering of the instrument a bit easier to work with. So whenever you're dealing with a mirror that is bowl-shaped, concaved, that mirror has to align with another mirror at the top where all of that light, and we'll say that big mirror at the bottom, that big mirror is the you know, we'll just say it's the primary mirror, and the tiny little mirror at the top is the second. Secondary mirror, and then let's say we drill a hole through that primary mirror, and that is where all the light from that secondary mirror that is catching the light from the primary mirror, it makes a cone that then now shoots another cone through the middle of that primary mirror. And here's the tricky part is that hey, if you have an eight-inch mirror, primary mirror, that's easy. That's easy to calculate, it's easy to fabricate, it's easy to punch a hole through it, cool. But if we blow it up to like really awkward, really awkward dimensions and and diameters, that mirror becomes significantly harder. So a three-meter mirror would be like five times the cost of just removing a little over half a meter, and and and now you have a mirror that is way easier to make.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

So I just looked at the clock. I've got like five minutes left here.

Kara

Um you good?

Ed

We're good? We can do this?

Kara

I think we can do this, and if not, we'll make it a two-parter. We're we're gonna be okay.

Ed

Here's the thing: NASA's not stupid. NASA knows, like, if there's any government agency that can crunch numbers, it's NASA. Yes. Given that the fact that the funding was only half of what NASA wanted, they they had to cut a lot of costs. And the idea was this the the three-meter mirror was gonna get shrunk down to a 2.4 meter, which is gonna make it easier to grind because of the size and the precision that they had to go through. It was cheaper, but also made the engineering of the instrument a bit easier to work with. So that's gonna make the cameras and all the fancy technology, all that was now gonna be cheaper. Okay, there was also going to be a separate 1.5-meter telescope that was gonna be set up to test the instruments. In other words, they were gonna send up a 1.5 meter space telescope with the same instruments that the Hubble telescope was going to be used with. They were gonna send that up, test all the fancy, schmancy, you know, camera equipment and and all that stuff, calibrate it and then cool, and then like bring it back or record the data on how to calibrate a 2.4 meter telescope, and we have data that we can make sure that the cameras and the mirrors and everything was gonna line up. Okay, that got canceled.

Kara

Oh, yeah, okay, that's annoying.

Ed

I I mean, it's government stuff, still annoying. Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, are we sure we want to proceed? And of course, politicians got involved, and you're like, all right, cool, yeah, roll, let's roll with it. What's the worst that could happen?

Kara

Okay. I mean, it gets worse. Yeah.

Ed

Overall, this telescope had to be created from the ground up with an optical tolerance that has never been achieved before. A normal telescope optics are ground to what is known as a one-tenth of a wave of visible light. We're talking billionth of a meter here. These mirrors had to be ground. Like you, you, you've seen my giant telescope, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ed

My it uh I have a uh nine and a quarter inch Celestron CPC. I freaking love that thing. It is it is amazing optically, it is incredible. That is ground to a one-tenth of a wave of visible light. We are talking about a discrepancy. We're talking about a discrepancy of something at the atomic level. One tenth of a wave of visible light is tiny.

Kara

Yes, yes, like very much so. Yes. I'm following. I'm here, I'm here.

Ed

I know it it it and and I'm failing here to describe why this is so incredible. Because anybody can go buy a telescope for you know a couple hundred dollars and get a mirror that is ground to one tenth of a wave of visible, uh, visible light. The Hubble Space Telescope was designed to be ground to one sixty-fifth of a wave of red light. Red light is very shallow, and it is very stretched out, and that wave of red light, you're now knocking out one sixty-fifth of that. Yeah, imagine a surfer trying to surf on a normal wave that's like I don't know, say six feet tall. Now we cut that wave down to one sixty-fifth, and now we're asking a surfer to surf on something that is uh surf on a wave that is like two inches tall.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

So hopefully that kind of gives you an idea of just how tricky this mirror needed to be ground.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

Yeah.

Kara

Yeah, I I would mess that up real quick.

Ed

So I I would look at it incorrectly and I would mess it up. Like the light waves coming off of my body would see that mirror and it would crack in half, and we're screwed.

Kara

I would get really close to 165th, and then I'd get too excited and put a hole in it. Or I'd drop it.

Ed

Not not in the middle, right? Not not where the light is supposed to pass through with the secondary mirror. Oh no, you're like you're like, okay, off the edge there, I want to poke a hole in there.

Kara

No, it's it's never on purpose. It would definitely be in the middle, and then I get upset and then I drop it just out of anxiety.

Ed

Well, it it it it is it is interesting that you bring this up because the mirror, like most like if you go into any observatory uh anywhere and you look at a 2.4 meter mirror, that mirror, the piece of glass that that thing is ground out of is like three feet thick. It is really thick, and the reason why is because that mirror weighs a crap ton, and they don't want like they don't they don't want this thing flexing in shape because of like for example, if you're looking at something right at the horizon, the weight of the top of that mirror is going to crush the middle of the mirror and the bottom of the mirror, versus let's say it's pointed straight up in the sky, then there's nothing crushing it. So this mirror on Earth would be like you know, four or five, six feet thick just for support. The Hubble mirror was two inches thick. Because yeah, it wasn't affected by gravity.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

And so given that the that NASA was gonna dump a bajillion dollars into this thing, they wanted to make sure that this mirror was going to be ground at a tolerance that superseded everything that our ground-based telescopes could do. And so they hired a company and they actually kind of had a partner up with the uh uh ESA or the European Space Agency. Uh they NASA realized that oh crap, we don't have enough money for this in in the 1970s, so they outsourced some of this project to the ESA. I had no idea that the European Space Agency even existed in the 70s. I thought this was more of like a 90s thing. Uh, but yeah, I was completely wrong on that. Uh the ESA had a huge hand in in the Hubble Space Telescope, but in terms of actually manufacturing this mirror, they contracted a company called Perkins Elmer. They were the ones that sound like a restaurant. I'm sorry. I it all to me, it sounds like a disease.

Kara

Oh. No, it sounds like Perkins restaurants and Elmer's glue got together and they were like, Alright, how are we gonna make some money?

Ed

I had no is there a Perkins restaurant?

Kara

Uh, there used to be a long time ago. I think they're all close now, but yeah, it used to be a restaurant chain.

Ed

Well, I mean, once you hear about this Perkin Elmer, it's gonna make a lot of sense if they're all folded up. So, yeah, the the optical tube assembly or the OTA was contracted by the Marshall Space Flight Center. So they're the ones that were contracted to make a a tube. They they got millions, if not billions of dollars to make a pipe. Um I would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

Kara

Same.

Ed

The the optical tube assembly, or for our astronomy nuts out there, an OTA was contracted to be built by the Goddard Space Fly Center, but then they kind of contracted that out to Perkin Elmer. So this was a lowest bidder reaching out to a lowest bidder who then contracted it out to a lowest bidder Perkin Elmer to grind the mirror, and it this is where I think a lot of things went sideways. Uh Perkin Elmer uh they they wanted to use this super fancy computer technology. Now we're in the 80s, right? They wanted to use a lot of this newfangled computer technology to um find the most precise way to grind things.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

Keep in mind that this mirror had to be ground six times more accurate than any telescope on the ground.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

Alright. What happened in the nineteen eighties? What what device can you think of in the nineteen eighties that relied solely on computer technology, computer guided accuracy? Uh can can you think of anything that we may have covered in another podcast where relying on janky 1980s computer technology for accuracy could have failed.

Kara

You mean the the Theric 25?

Ed

Oh yeah.

Kara

Oh yeah, that's and and and I I also want to give a shout to one of our students who has a Theric 25 t-shirt.

Ed

Oh my gosh.

Kara

It's the best.

Ed

Yes. Yes, we we don't have permission to use her name on the podcast, uh, but she mentioned a dumpster fire in the realm of billions of dollars that I didn't know about.

Kara

Yeah, she she's doing a whole year-long project on this giant dumpster fire. And we will share with you her findings.

Ed

Yes, this is this is incredible because it's literally a two to three billion dollar hole in the ground in Texas.

Kara

Yeah, it's it's great. Anyway, we'll we'll keep you in the loop on that.

Ed

But yes, yeah. This is a project we are working on. All I think all we gotta do is just send out a permission slip and and and we'll be fine. But we'll we'll we'll figure the legalities of having a minor on here. But but yes, uh this perk and Elmer, uh, they wanted to use some really, really high-tech fancy computer equipment to really get the most accurate mirror possible, and I don't blame them. I I would want to try something like that as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ed

Uh I could also understand NASA being like, okay, well, if you're going to use all this technology to make this fancy mirror, um NASA also wanted another mirror, an identical mirror. And you can actually go see this. I think it's in Houston. Uh I I can't remember. But the the NASA we reached out to Kodak, and Kodak was like, all right, yeah, yeah, no, we'll build the same mirror. And the idea was this Kodak is building or grinding one mirror. Perkin Elmer is grinding the identical mirror, and the idea is that they would compare the accuracy of these two mirrors based on their instruments, including an instrument that would be used, the same instrument that would be used between each mirror. And they would bounce it back and forth and make sure that hey, if one mirror is acting strange in terms of grinding, we'll compare it to the other mirror, and then if that mirror is acting strange, then we'll compare it to the initial mirror.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

Problem is that this Perkin Elmer company was like the most improperly run, improperly managed company known to mankind. Right off the bat, it was project delays. Nice. There was management issues. Looking at my notes here, from the onset, NASA had serious doubts about Perkin Elmer's ability to make this Hubble Space Telescope fancy mirror. Uh, delay after delay, and major managerial concerns plugged the whole process. Uh, they were unable to meet any sort of deadline. In order for them to even come up with something that would fail the deadline, they needed more money and more time.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

The mirror itself was finished in 1981, but the rest of the telescope was a hot mess. Uh, the delays were so extensive, NASA had to cut funding for the backup mirror.

Kara

Alright, cool.

Ed

So because Perkin Elmer pooped the bed so much from like, what is it, like 1974, 1975? Uh the expenses were getting so high that they had to be like, all right, I know we have a control mirror, I know we have another mirror that Kodak is working on, but we have to scrap it because we just don't have the funds left.

Kara

What?

Ed

So they had no way of knowing when this telescope went into space, they had no way of knowing.

Kara

That that is dumb. Well, yeah. Or okay.

Ed

I mean, I get it, it's dumb, but I can also understand their perspective. Yeah. Because it's like we're building two telescopes for like four times the money. And and here's the other thing. Whenever you're talking about any government science agency, everything has to adhere by a deadline. Right. And so the goal was to have the telescope ready by 1983. Obviously, that didn't happen. Then it was moved to 1984.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

Ed

And then it was moved to 1985. And eventually it was ready by 1986, and the budget ballooned. Remember, oh, what was it? It was supposed to be like five million dollars.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

It ballooned. The goal was to have the telescope ready by 1983, but that didn't happen. Then it was moved to 1984, and then it was moved to 1985 because Perkin Elmer was having managerial issues galore. Like they really, really messed this up. It's probably the reason why nobody knows the name of this company to this day.

Kara

That's why they make glue and went on to open some restaurants that close.

Ed

Yeah, I don't know if that's the same company that made glue, but I don't think it is.

Kara

I'm just speaking.

Ed

I'm gonna research it after this because I'm uh yeah, please do.

Kara

I'm I'm I am being dumb, but if I am right while trying to make a stupid joke, go make it.

Ed

It would make sense.

unknown

Yeah.

Ed

I I'm I'm right there with you. Like, I I mean, because now that I'm 40 and I have to wake up in the middle of the night to pee no matter what, I'm going to search that up because it would not surprise me if Elmer's glue was one of the main contributors to this mirror that was a disaster.

Kara

Yeah, let me know. Curious.

Ed

Yeah, yeah, I'll I'll text you like two in the morning.

Kara

Sick.

Ed

And then you'll let me know the following day when you wake up. Correct. So by 1986, it was finally ready and it ballooned from a five million dollar project to a 1.175 billion dollar project, which is equivalent to a 3.277 billion dollars by today's standards.

Kara

So much for sticking to the budget.

Ed

There is no budget.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

The original budget accounted for a guy to go into the bathroom and take a pee, and it ended up with a 3.277 billion dollar tube with some fancy glass in it orbiting Earth.

Kara

Yeah, that tracks.

Ed

It it it so it doesn't end there. So in 1986, this thing was ready. It was ready to go up into space. I need to make a correction here. Uh I thought the original budget was a piddly five million dollars. No, the original budget was 36 million dollars.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

That balloon to a 3.277 billion dollar Poo show.

Kara

Okay. I don't know if that's better or worse.

Ed

Yeah, so what what's yeah, what what's $31 million between friends when we're talking about billions of dollars in the 80s. That's fair. Uh this thing was locked and loaded, it was ready to go, and then on January 28th, 1986, this is one of my very, very first memories in my life. I was born in 1982. I remember as something slightly beyond a toddler, I don't know. I just remember hearing my my dad and my grandfather talking about on January 28th, the space shuttle challenger exploding 73 minutes after takeoff. Yeah, absolutely devastating, and that unto itself is another episode of the day's dumpster fire. The thing is, is that I would never label that as a dumpster fire because of the respect of the people and the school teacher who died in that, and I and I know it's not as sensitive as a Topic of say, like you know, the Vietnam War or or whatever, but if I'm gonna cover a topic of the Challenger explosion, it is one of those things where I'm gonna take the time and do it right. And this was such a big deal that it shut down NASA for like four years. Yeah. This is one thing I will say about a government-run agency in America is like, holy cow, we just killed a handful of people trying to get into space, including a school teacher. We're gonna shut down everything. Same thing with Apollo 1, right? Uh, they had that tragic fire in the capsule on a test run, and everybody died inside of that terribly. And NASA is like, okay, we're done, we're shutting down. We are going to investigate every little thing, we are going to accurately and reliably figure out what happened, and that's what happened to the Hubble Space Telescope prior to going going up into space, and NASA literally shut down all launches for like four years.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

I I agree. I I think that is the ethical and the proper thing to do. The the tricky part is that yes, the entire space shuttle program was shut down, but Hubble had to be stored somewhere, it had to be stored in a very biological i it it uh uh safety that like you you had to store this thing in the cleanest of the clean rooms on earth. Okay, like dust wasn't allowed to come in, particles weren't allowed to come in, you couldn't have a fly in there. Like you had to store this thing in a very airtight type of setting. Okay, and so they're like, okay, the Hubble telescope needs to be stored until NASA can figure out what happened with Challenger, and so that we can reliably get people back into space. That bill to store that telescope per month for the next four years was six million dollars a month. Jeez, just for this thing to just sit in a warehouse that had to be custom built and custom controlled, and it's it's one of those things where it's like, all right, well, just tack it on to the build. And yeah, granted, this wasn't necessarily a bad thing, this necessarily wasn't the end of the world because while this telescope sat there for four years, more and more instruments were being created, more and more uh technological uh advancements. There was the following four years saw a lot of refinements and a lot of technology and a lot of different cameras, and it it while it was sitting there just charging four, or I'm sorry, six million dollars a month, it was being modified, it was being adapted, and I think unfortunately, as much as it hurts me to say, when Challenger exploded and grounded the Hubble Space Telescope, it was that four years that legitimately contributed to why this telescope is so incredible to this day.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

It was yeah, it was all because of it was all because of this time period where fancy engineers and technology, I mean, my god, think about it when when you're a little girl. Think about like how computers advanced in a year.

Kara

Yeah, it's pretty crazy you think about it.

Ed

Yeah. I mean, it's wild. And and and and think about it from the time of 1986, that that's when my wife was born.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

And then think to 1990.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

And that that four years, you go from you go from the Challenger explosion to the Gulf War. And you think about everything that went down in those four short years, and yeah, like all the advancements that came about, everything that was added on to it, everything that was changed, it's it's pretty incredible.

Kara

Yeah, it's pretty gnarly.

Ed

Yeah, and and and and it's one of those things where we look at today. I could buy a phone today in 2023, and I could keep that phone till 2027, and it would, for the most part, do what I needed to do. But if you build a space telescope in 1986 and just keep the technology the way it is, and don't adjust anything, don't modify anything, don't don't mess with this thing for four years. By the time that thing would go into space, it would be obsolete. There would be no software that could run it. And so I I'm one of the believers in that I I hate to say it, but the Challenger explosion came at a terrible cost of American lives. But because of that and NASA's response and shutting down to re-evaluate everything and and to like look at everything to in terms of getting humans into space, that time period was spent kind of like Goku and Dragon Ball Z going from like Earth to Namek? Remember how there was like what 75 episodes of Dragon Ball Z when Goku was trying to get from Earth in that capsule and land on Namek? And you remember remember that that part where the gravity thing went haywire and it went to like a thousand times Earth's gravity, and Goku had to like you know figure out and train himself to operate in that environment.

Kara

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Ed

Please tell me you remember that.

Kara

Nope.

Ed

You don't?

Kara

I don't think I don't think I got that far into it. My my husband is the guy to ask. I'm sorry.

unknown

Really?

Kara

I just started watching it.

Ed

I thought you watched Dragon Ball Z.

Kara

Not all of it. Oh my god. I gotta work through it. Uh I know. Okay.

Ed

So I Heartbreaking. I need you to watch Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. It's like 400 episodes.

Kara

I know. That's why I haven't watched all of it.

Ed

But but it all takes place in the course of like two hours.

Kara

I know. That's that's the other reason why it's hard for me.

Ed

Okay. Alright.

Kara

We'll get there, alright? Show me mercy.

Ed

Given given that it's like 9:40 p.m., I'm going to appeal to the listeners that remember that episode where Goku was in that capsule going from Earth to Namek because Frieza has arrived, and it was an incredible threat. And in the process of this years-long journey that was gonna get him to Namek, the gravity thing on his capsule went haywire, and it went from like 1x or 1 times risk gravity to a thousand instantly, and it crushed Goku to the ground, and he had to spend all that time trying to resist that and try to build up, and so that when he actually got to Namek, he was like a legit badass, like nobody could beat him. That's what the Hubble Space Telescope went through during that whole thing. Okay, and so there that's where I want to stop. Okay, because I said that I was not gonna make this a two-parter. I said that I was gonna hash this out within an hour, and now we are one and a half hours into it, and I haven't even got to the real dumpster fire yet.

Kara

That's okay. Because that is a lot of little trash can fires leading up to a dumpster fire.

Ed

Yes.

Kara

So that's a great way of looking at it, and yes, it's like um it's like you know, when I was talking about my lovely um German government episode when I really just wanted to talk about how Hitler came into power. Yeah, that was a big, huge iceberg situation, and I feel like that's what this is. So I understand. Don't worry.

Ed

I I I I feel like this is more of like what you're talking about is like government influences, which is massive. Uh don't get me wrong. Like it's grossed. W when you're going from a a king to a democracy to a dictator, that that's some pretty big stuff. I'm talking about a simple tube that was put into space to take pretty pictures.

Kara

Well, you put it that way.

Ed

And and and it went from like five million dollars to no, it went from yeah, it went from five million dollars to thirty-six million dollars to like twenty-six point four billion dollars.

Kara

Yeah, I mean, we're in billions now.

Ed

This is very expensive, yes, or eleven point three billion in the 1980s.

Kara

This is a very expensive camera.

Ed

Uh well.

Kara

I don't know what's a telescope. Well, no, no, no.

Ed

Yeah, you know, you're right. It it it is a telescope. Uh, I think there was like six other cameras that were built into it.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

Like a camera that could pick up infrared and X-rays and that thing that measures that other thing in science that does that stuff with the other thing.

Kara

Oh, my head hurts.

Ed

Yeah, it yeah, it had a camera that could pick up that thing. Um cool. It had a very, very nice planetary camera in there, meaning like it could zoom into Jupiter and like see everything. Like you you can look at Jupiter through my nine and a quarter inch telescope, and it's cool. But the Hubble Space Telescope had something that was on steroids, and yeah, it it was pretty cool. And that four-year time period of it just chilling in a warehouse at with a rent of six million dollars a month. There was a lot of hype and a lot of pomp and ceremony, and a lot of hey, check it out. America put a man on the moon, America won the space race. There's nothing that America can't do, and check out these images, and we'll leave it there. Yes, and it's blurry AF.

Kara

Yeah. It's it's like taking a picture with your cell phone at the moon.

Ed

Yes, but even using the wrong everything uh to even take that picture.

Kara

It's yeah, it's good.

Ed

And and the crazy part about it is that the error, the actual error that messed up everything was on the very, very edge of that moon, or not the moon, but that that mirror. And that mirror was ground perfectly, but it was ground to the wrong shape, and that shape was off by one one thousandth of a human hair, and that ruined everything.

Kara

So I assume we're gonna get into more detail about that next thing.

Ed

Yes, because we are running long here. I failed to keep this at a reasonable time, but you know me, I blab. I'm all good.

Kara

You're thorough.

Ed

I wasn't even that thorough, like I missed out on like the Astronomical Observatory One and the OAO2 and the OSO and the LST the LOLs and but but we could also put all of those fun details in the show notes so people can read it for you know what? Let me ask you this. Should I like because I take you you you're probably looking at my notes like unnecessarily long? Should I they're pretty long? Should I publish those as well with the episode?

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

Okay.

Kara

With some photos, you know, some images in there that like royalty-free images. I don't know. We'll figure it out. But yeah. Um, I think both of us should do that. Because my my notes are usually pretty long too. I'll just have to clean them up a little bit.

Ed

I don't think we should clean them up. Just leave them. Okay. Well, yeah, because it this is how we how we work. And I feel like, hey, if we're talking about our about our middle schoolers here, and we have the nation's 123rd most or 123rd thousandths most popular podcasts in Montana, like in Billings, like cool.

Kara

Yeah, yeah.

Ed

Where sweet. I I I say we publish this. I I say we publish these notes so that people can rip through them and like just truly criticize every little piece so that the four people in Calspell, Montana, can be like cool.

Kara

And that one person in the UK, what's up?

Ed

Oh my god, who are you?

Kara

We appreciate you, random person in the UK.

Ed

Yeah, dude, like I I mean, dude or dude, I don't know who you are, but for the love of God, like send us an email. Uh we Kara and I have a theory that it's Kara's mom who's using a VPN, and that's the person who is listening, but like, dude, you you've listened to like every episode.

Kara

Yeah, appreciate you.

Ed

Yes.

Kara

Yeah, whatever.

Ed

And that do me a favor, our our our our dude friend across the pond, tell your friends. Yeah, tell your friends that you are a part of uh the 100,000th most famous podcast in Calspell, Montana, that is recorded by two nerds in Phoenix, Arizona.

Kara

Perfect. Perfect. And with that, if anybody does want to contact us, you can email us at thedaysdumpsterfire at gmail.com. Yep. Or you can um shoot us a DM on the Instagrams.

Ed

Oh yeah.

Kara

And talk to us that way.

Ed

Um, and and we have a Facebook presence? Yeah, so I'm gonna sort of.

Kara

Oh, I didn't know that. Apparently we have a Facebook presence. So if you want to contact um one of us on Facebook.

Ed

Well, I don't know because what all I do is I publish the episode and then I copy the link and then I put it on my personal Facebook page.

Kara

Got it.

Ed

And so yeah, my 53 friends on Facebook hit us up.

Kara

Cool. I don't I don't I don't have Facebook anymore, so it's fine.

Ed

I know that's weird. Because you're old now.

Kara

I know, I'm 30-ish.

Ed

Well, in about two more hours, you're gonna be 31.

Kara

Yeah, we should go to bed.

Ed

You're right.

Kara

Yeah, I guess.

Ed

I should go to bed.

Kara

Yeah. All right, bye guys. We appreciate you. Contact us, like and subscribe, give us a review, all the fun stuff.

Ed

Most importantly, keep it a hot mess.

Kara

Yes. We'll see you next time.

Ed

Bye.