Ed

Hey all, this is Ed.

SPEAKER_05

And this is Kara. And this is Deja.

Ed

And this is your day's dumpster fire. Wait, where's the button? Oh, there's the button. Okay, got it. So yeah, um, it's getting weird where I'm at.

Kara

Why don't you tell the people what's going on outside real quick? We'll consider that the trash can fire.

Ed

This is this is the yeah, this is the epitome of a trash can fire. So I went up the road to get myself some caffeine to record tonight, and I noticed that like there was a lot of fog. Now, for those of you who are familiar with Arizona, we don't get fog much. Fog fog maybe happens once a year. Uh definitely not in the beginning of March. And so when I was driving up to the gas station, I noticed that there was a lot of haze and fog and all that kind of stuff. And then I got my soda fix, came out, got in my car, and then I couldn't get home because there were there are like military vehicles, like straight up, there's vehicles with 50 caliber machine guns on top of them going up and down the streets, and all yeah, there's a haze everywhere. I I have no idea what's going on, but I'm yeah, I had to go like like two miles out away before I could actually head south towards my house because there's something, something going on there, and I'm looking out my window and I'm still seeing military vehicles drive by my street.

SPEAKER_05

I still think it's aliens. I'm still thinking about what I think it is.

Ed

What wait, what did you think it is?

SPEAKER_05

Well, there's a lot of different things that I think it could be, so I gotta think about what I think it is, and then I'll let you know. So I'm just like, well, if we just hear Ed go, then we know it's it's alien.

Ed

I just see it like light come over me and I disappear, they're like, Well, it was good why one knew him, and he will be a changed man if he ever comes back.

SPEAKER_04

Yikes.

Ed

Will he so like Karen and I we we've talked in the past of like weird paranormal things that like there there's paranormal stuff that we think is funny, like or not funny, but in terms of like this is good entertainment versus like scary, scary, like this could actually happen. Yeah, for me, uh the paranormal in terms of like people being possessed and the demon phenomenon and all that kind of stuff, that crap scares the crap out of me. And for Kara, it's aliens.

Kara

Yep. Aliens for some reason freak me out, freaks me the F out. I will sit there and I will watch an alien documentary, I'll watch the alien movies, and I will be scared, but I will still do it.

SPEAKER_02

I can do serial killers, I can do ghosts, I can do demons, I can do possessions, it's it's the aliens, man.

Ed

Yeah, and and and and I'm I'm I'm kind of on par with that. I it because I'm a am I a huge astronomy nut, and there's been many times where I've been out in the middle of the desert and I've seen things that I can't explain. Not so much on the ground, but up in the sky, where like that's a weird light. Like, why is that light doing that? Wait, that light now just changed a 45-degree angle, and now it's going the other way. Like, how is that even possible?

SPEAKER_05

So, I mean, yeah, I I don't know if my neighborhood is being invaded by aliens, but um you're getting pretty like far out there where they start to have a little bit more um like farms and dairies and whatnot. So there's a lot of cows, and I know the cows always get abducted by aliens.

Kara

So it's true. I don't have that many cows until further west so I had cows.

Ed

Actually, all our cow farms have shut down. They have all been bought out.

SPEAKER_05

Grew up with there, you know that one right off of the 202 on like. So I grew up with the kids of the pair of the owners. Oh, okay. And the the daughter was really mean to me, by the way. She's like two years older than me and she was rude. She's a bully.

Ed

Oh, duck that I'm gonna do. Sorry that happened to you. Teach her a lesson.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I don't know. I don't that was in like elementary school, so it's okay.

Ed

We're past it. I I do find it funny how like women can hold a grudge for years.

SPEAKER_05

I don't hold a grudge, nothing, no bad blood, but it I think about it.

Ed

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. Is this like something happened to you when you're in kindergarten and you're like, I want the worst for this person, and I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_05

I just want them to step their toe. That's what it is. I want them to step on a frame their finger into the doorknob, or you know, shut their their finger in the drawer or stub their toe on the corner of the door, you know, something that's like temporary, but not like or accident where they have to live off of a feeding tube. Oh see, then I have to live with that, and I cry way too much.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

Got it.

Kara

On that note, what you got for us, Ed?

Ed

Um oh yeah. Sorry. There's another car. Oh, sorry. I thought that was a tank. It turns out it was another Humvee with a 50 cal on it. Um, so yeah, I uh this episode is a little heavy, it's a little sticky, a little oily. It's okay. Let's say you are a diplomat, let's say you're a secretary of state, let's say you're um somebody that is important, okay. You just get a phone call and you're like, uh-huh. Okay, cool, all right, all right, got it. And now you have to call up like all these other countries and be like, hey guys, um, we have a bit of an issue. It's gonna possibly cost billions of dollars to fix all this, and it's probably gonna take five, ten, maybe no more than fifteen, twenty, thirty years to fix it. Just letting you know right now we kinda got an issue, and uh that is what happened in March, what was it, 18th of 1967? So what I'm talking about is the epitome of a dumpster fire of the Torrey Canyon super tanker oil spill. To dive into this, let me fix my microphone here because I keep moving around and doing stupid crap and whatnot. Um okay, what's up? The Torrey Canyon. This this ship was supposed to be like the most pinnacle, most technologically advanced ship of the era. Uh, it was built in 1959 with a capacity of 66,9 or 66,980 tons. That that's that's a lot of stuff.

Kara

That's full capacity, or that's like average how much it carried?

Ed

That's what it could carry.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

So it what's strange is that 1959 that was considered as a super tanker, but then a few years later, uh they they like landed a ship in Japan, and they basically took a cutting torch, cut the whole thing in half, and then expanded it by like 50%. So now we could hold over 120,000 tons of crude oil.

Kara

I'm picturing a big boat welded together shabbily with some duct tape. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05

I just have like that heavy, like welded line through it. Yeah, no paint coverage at all. Oh nothing aesthetically, just very wild line. How else would you do it? Yeah, I make a boat bigger.

Ed

I I I mean, I've seen like limousines get expanded via by like they the lay take a salzole and they cut it in half, and then they put stuff in between it to expand it out, and now you have an extended limousine and it's all kosher. So, yeah, the uh Tory Canyon at the time was considered a super tanker. Anything that could carry over a hundred thousand tons of crude oil is considered a super tanker, which is wild because by today's standards, that's tiny, that's like a tugboat. Uh, most tankers today are holding hundreds of thousands of tons of crude oil.

SPEAKER_05

I don't that's see, I I have you know that phobia of like being next to big things, like driving next to semi trucks? That too. But like if I'm next to like this really big like statue that's really, really big, I get like anxiety. I'm like, oh, that's creepy, you know. Like if I'm next, say I'm like literally sitting right next to Eiffel Tower and I look up and like how can something be that big?

Ed

I I are you worried that like it's gonna fall on you, or is it just like how did we get that to do that?

SPEAKER_05

Like, and why? And like it's so big. Like it I do think about it like kind of toppling down, and that's not the first thing that comes to my mind. I'm just like, how is it so big? Why do we have something so obnoxiously large? Actually long, so much long as a tall.

Ed

Yeah, that's not something I deal with on a day-to-day basis, so I I don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, I only have no right.

Ed

Uh fun fact, I I do want to do an episode on Eiffel Tower.

Kara

Oh, that's a good idea.

Ed

Because the guy who built that tower was also imprisoned for treason after he had failed miserably to build the uh Panama Canal, and he had to sell the whole project to America for pennies to the dollar, and it's all because America had toxic chemicals that could kill the mosquitoes. Sick. That that that was the only difference between America and France building the Panama Canal. So I I may do an episode on that because Eiffel was a brilliant engineer, and uh yeah, he's the guy who built the Statue of Liberty, and then he built the um the Eiffel Tower, but then he also failed horribly to build the Panama Canal. Like that guy got more people killed inadvertently than anybody else. On that note, yeah, the Tory Canyon.

Kara

The Tory Canyon. Tell us about it. What's happening with it?

Ed

Okay, okay, so basically put, the Tory Canyon, once it was doubled in size, it could hold 120,000 tons of crude oil. This was a single-hold ship, meaning, you know, when you look at a boat, and I'm doing hand gestures there, like the our listeners can see it. But if you were to do a cross-section of of a boat, it looks like a parabola, it kind of like comes down to a point, and the water level is like two-thirds of the way up. They basically double the size of this thing. When it was doubled, it could hold up to not just like so. If we want to factor in tonnage, 120,000 tons. We're talking about 15 to 36 million gallons of crude oil. That's it's a lot of milk jugs. That's basically you could fit 109 Olympic-sized swimming pools inside this thing. That's that's huge.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

Ed

Now, so who owned this thing? Okay, so it was owned by the Barracuda Tanker Corporation, which is a subsidiary of the Union Oil Company of California, and registered to the country of Liberia, but then it was chartered to Bitters Petroleum or BP, which kind of begs the question: like, who who owns this thing?

Kara

Who's in charge?

Ed

Yeah, owned by Barracuda Toinker Toinker Tanker Corporation, a subsidiary of Union Oil Company of California, registered to the country of Liberia, and then chartered to BP.

SPEAKER_06

Sorry, uh the Twinker kicked out. Twinker. Twinker.

SPEAKER_04

I was trying to hold back my loud laugh. I know. You you tried. Failed miserably.

Ed

Yeah, so instead of an oil tanker, it's just a tinker.

Kara

It's a good word. We'll put that on a t-shirt. Oh, Twinker. Twinker. Oil twinker. Perfect.

Ed

Oh boy. But but yeah, no, the Tory Canyon was the largest, most advanced super tanker in the world, and it was was like this thing was considered like the most advanced thing you could put in in the ocean.

Kara

So they said the same thing about the Titanic.

Ed

Uh yes.

Kara

Anyway, sorry.

Ed

Titanic would be its own episode.

Kara

Yes.

Ed

I'll do that one. Well, there's a weird conspiracy theory that the Titanic wasn't the Titanic.

Kara

I'm going to avoid conspiracy theories, but I'll do that one.

Ed

Yeah, no, like so I I I guess there's this weird theory out there. The Titanic wasn't actually Titanic, it was a different ship that the captain had already run aground and damaged it. Because if you look at the backside of Titanic where it would have the name Titanic on it, it was painted on, not riveted. Meaning it was another ship. And the idea was that let's take the ship that ran aground, that was damaged, and let's purposely collide it into an iceberg, and then you can get an insurance claim out of it. Because the White Star line did get like a payment of like $130 million for the Titanic sinking, and that's the reason why they never went out of business because of it. But yeah, conspiracy theories. It picked up a huge load of oil from Kuwait, and it started to head up to well, to England. So let's talk about the Skilly Islands. I think it's Skilly. Maybe it's silly. I I don't know how England.

Kara

Can you say silly?

Ed

Is it silly?

SPEAKER_05

I don't know.

Kara

I want to say silly, but it sounds silly. So if our friend in Britain is still listening, please correct us on that.

Ed

Yeah, yeah. No, because I because I've listened to a lot of podcasts about this, and I don't know, America pronounce it skilly. I've also heard people in Brittany and Normandy pronounce it skilly, but then in England and Cornwall, it's silly. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05

I looked it up and um the lady says silly. Like S-I-L-E-E. Silly silly silly.

Ed

Got it. So it's silly from here on out. So what uh uh Carol will probably put this in on our website, this picture that I have in our notes here, but I want you to look at the island of Britain. And it's about this I I guess it's about the same size as California. I I had no idea, but if you were to look at the island of Britain and go all the way down uh like down south and then go all the way to its most western point, there's a little peninsula called Cornwall. That Cornwall is yeah, it it's it's a weird place. I guess it's like a uh it's a little peninsula that jets out. It is mostly all tourism, that's where it gets its money from. Is people visit Cornwall because of you know the famous coastline and all that stuff, and then about 16 miles outside of Cornwall. So if you go a little further west, you have the islands of silly.

SPEAKER_05

No, it's silly.

Ed

It's silly silly? No, no, no. Listen, listen.

SPEAKER_05

I'm quietly broken breaking me. You gotta go silly.

Ed

Or or oh god, we just lost all our British listeners. It's too late ceiling. Well, you make it sound all hillbilly. I reckon that was. I like that silly.

SPEAKER_05

That's cealy.

Ed

I reckon we just ran ashore in silly.

SPEAKER_05

Oh god. Oh, my brain's so sealy. Anyways, tell me more about Sealy.

Ed

Yeah, so basically, Cornwall, and then you go out 16 miles from the coast, you have the Isles of Silly, and uh, like this is all I I I Googled this, like I Google Earthed it and all that stuff. It it is just the most pristine environmental like coastline and animal life and and and the works. So they get their money from tourism and they also get their money from fishing. The Gulf Current, the way that it works is that the Gulf Current, like off of the east coast of the United States, going down to South America, then brings warm water up through the coast or the west coast of Africa, and then it like passes through just off the west coast of Brittany, France, and the Isles of Scilly and Cornwall. So it brings all this warm water brings a crap ton of wildlife with it, especially migratory birds. All the Isles of Scilly and the peninsula of Cornwall are all about like in March, it's all about birds coming there to poop and mate. That's what birds that's what they do.

SPEAKER_05

The way of life. Oh man, what a time to have my birthday in. I'm always gonna remember that. Yeah, yeah, be like, oh, it's that month.

Ed

Okay, yeah, yeah, that nasty month where everything reproduces as those two doves outside my window from this morning. It was very awkward. Um, but good on them. Um, so yeah, as a result, the coastlines of Cornwall, Silly, and even Brittany down south in France were popular for fishing and sightseers. However, the gap between silly skilly, skill see see, I I I keep wanting to say skilly. It's just silly.

SPEAKER_05

It's silly. No, it the lady really Did pronounce it silly, like like lol that's silly.

Ed

Okay. Silly in Cornwall is beyond treacherous. It's a 16-mile gap or 84,480 feet. Like, okay, this is the thing that blows my mind about this whole incident is that the the Torrey Canyon ship was 62 feet wide. It's 62 feet wide. How could it not pass through something that was 84,480 feet wide? I'm boggled by this, but as it turns out, there were a bunch of rocks that span across the gap by every single person who knows anything about seafaring as the effing manacles. They call this gap the manacles because it is loaded with all these rocks that sit just like a foot beneath the coastline. And they call it the manacles because it's like the chain that connects Silly to the rest of England. And everybody knows that you don't send an oil tanker through that. You can't. Especially an oil tanker that takes like over a mile to stop, as well as like five miles to make a U-turn. That's that's how big of a radius it would take for this thing to pass through. So like everybody called this little strait here the manacles, including all the the little small fishing vessels in the area, and it's loaded with all these little fishing vessels. All these fishing vessels are like, hey, our hole sits maybe five feet below the water line. We're good. Uh don't don't bring anything into this. The the manacles were so famous that in 1842, I didn't know this, but there was a thing called a light ship. So think about a lighthouse attached to a wooden ship, and they would just send the ship out and drop anchor, and then they would have this light on the top of it and be like, guys, go around. Don't you don't want to pass through this action, it's not gonna work well for you. So yeah, there were even to this day, there is a ship out there from 1842 with a light on it that flashes telling ships go around. It's it's not worth it. Don't don't don't do it. So the other interesting thing about the manacles is that there are incredibly powerful east and west crosswinds. And if you're a sailing ship, if you were a sailing captain, you would be all over these crosswinds. You you would know about these crosswinds, and you'd be like, Nope. I'm just gonna spend an extra couple hours, I'm just gonna go around silly and then come up north and be fine. But if you are a junior officer on a gigantic oil tanker, you're like, What's wind? What's wind gonna do to me? Wind is nothing. We we like we have diesel, we we factor in that so we we get into what actually happened. March 18th, 1967. Captain Pastranjo Rugiati uh was taking the Torrey Canyon from Kuwait oil fields to Milfordshire. I feel like knowing Britain is probably like Milfordshire.

SPEAKER_05

It's yeah, it's Milfordshire.

Ed

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

That's uh I either I don't I always feel like they say it's not Shire. Like they say like Yorkshire, or what is it? Work Milfordshire.

Kara

Yorkshire.

SPEAKER_05

Yorkshire, there's also where oh my gosh. I was just reading about it and it's really funny, and I'll just say it really fast, but they're like kind of the rivals of rugby, this like university of rugby, and that's where rugby was like where it comes from. And they will not call it rugby, they call it uh what is it? Workins Workenshire ballkshire, Workshire. It's wor no, it's it's Workenshire. It's I I s I swear.

Kara

You've confused us all.

Ed

Promise. But anyways, we're to god I speak English.

SPEAKER_05

It's there. It it may not come out the best, but it's it's there.

Ed

When I was in college, I took a British light class from a guy. He uh he he was my college pulled this dude from Cambridge, and he was the most British guy in the world, and I know Kara, this is your trigger warning. Uh this guy his PhD was in the dark age literature, and uh he uh I I remember I was talking to him about Gloucester. He's like, Gloucester? What the heck is that? You know, Gloucester, England. You mean Gloucester? No, Gloucester. No, you mean Gloucester. I don't know what I'm talking about. He's like, yeah, you don't. Alright, I'm gonna shut up and sit down. Because I thought there was like three stress points, and I don't know. I I I'm in American, I can't speak English.

SPEAKER_05

It might be just it might be Warwick. I might just be thinking there's a chair in there just because I want there to be, maybe. Oh no, you're both really struggling here.

Ed

We are, yeah, we're we're just floundering. But Milfordshire.

Kara

Milfordshire.

Ed

Milfordshire, UK, the ship had to get to port at high tide. So I didn't know this, but I guess oil tankers, even the diesel-powered ones and now the nuclear powered ones, when you're fully loaded, your water line sits really low. And you could always tell when a tanker is not loaded because they're like sitting really high on the water line, like they're floating like two-thirds of the way up from the hole. When you are fully loaded, you sink down, and two-thirds of the ship is underwater just because you're so loaded. And the only way that you can get unloaded is you have to get to dock when it is high tide. If you don't, they can't unload you. So, like, you like the pressure was on. If you didn't get there when it was high tide right at the right time, then you would have to like park yourself off of the coastline by about like 10-15 miles, and then you just had to wait for like five days before you could get unloaded, which means you have to pay the crew, you are burning fuel, you are wasting tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of dollars a day just sitting there. And we're talking about a payload here that was at the time was worth about $13 million. So the longer you sat waiting to get unloaded, you're just burning money. Coming from the trucking industry, I kind of see where these guys were coming from. You needed to get to this freaking port as fast as possible, otherwise, everybody's bonuses just go up in flames. I want you guys to remember Pastrano Rucciati because this guy is going to be single-handedly responsible for uh the largest oil spill in the world at this time, and he did nothing wrong.

Kara

Like, except his name reminds me of Pastrami. Me too.

SPEAKER_05

That was the first thing I thought.

Kara

Hey, it was Pastrami and then Rigatoni right after that. Oh love it.

Ed

Sorry. What when I talk about this guy, you're gonna feel so bad for making fun of him. It's uh Rugiati.

unknown

Yeah.

Ed

Just so the the captain and her ship were running behind schedule. Instead of spending a few extra hours traversing west around the silly, skilly, skilly aisles, Rugiati decided to take his chances through the gap. But the problem was that he wasn't the one that made the call. Rugiati was an insanely until the day he died, he is considered an incredibly skillful, knowledgeable, capable ship captain. He he knew everything. He captained other ships that were the largest of their class beforehand for like 12-15 years. He knew every coastline in Africa, Europe, and Britain, even all the way up into like Norway and and all that stuff. Like, Rugiati knew that the gap was treacherous, and he knew how to handle the Torrey Canyon, and he knew that it could take up to a mile to come to a complete stop, and the turning radius was even larger. He also knew the names of the individual rocks in the manacles, however, his officers didn't know. While the captain was asleep, his junior officers looked at map looked at a map and they're like, Okay, we're we're gonna spend half a day going around the Isle of Scilly to get to Milfordshire. But if we do that, we're gonna miss our high tide, and then we're gonna have to sit in a boat for almost a week waiting to get unloaded. His junior officers didn't want that. So his junior officers looked at a map and they were gonna call this is a maneuver called shooting the gap. So they were going to go right down the middle between silly and what was it called? Oh, Cornwall. So they were gonna go right down the middle of it. They figured if they were in the middle of it, there was no way that they wouldn't be too close to Silly to hit something, they wouldn't be too close to Cornwall to hit something. The problem is that's where all the rocks are. And the junior officers also were operating off of maps that were like 10 years outdated, so like there was no mention of anything in this this map, even though it goes back to like the early 1800s. Like, don't do it. This this stretch of ocean is so treacherous that in the early 1800s, Britain even mailed France copies of the maps telling their fleet don't go through here. If you're going to invade us, go this way, don't cut through here.

Kara

It was so bad they reached out to their mortal enemies to them. Amazing.

Ed

And and Brittany's even like it. This is one thing I love about 1800s maritime law, is that yes, you could be mortal enemies with another country, but you still had a lot of respect and honor for the other sailing ships out there. And yes, they would come up to each other, blow the crap out of each other with can cannons, but at the end of the day, if one ship discovered something dangerous in the ocean, they would notify their enemy not to go there. Which I don't know. I I find that I find that fascinating. That that's how these these guys work. So in other words, everybody knew, including the fishermen and all that, that this is a bad place to go, but the junior officers had no idea. Worse yet, the junior officers didn't know if the steering mechanism was in automatic or manual mode. So, like they would push a button on the ship that would put the steering in automatic, which means they could like program in a trajectory and the ship would do it its own thing. But when it's in automatic mode, as soon as you turn the wheel to go left or right, no response because it's in automatic mode. The officers had no idea if the ship was in automatic or manual mode.

Kara

There's not like a light or science and a little switch on a little like a vacant occupied kind of thing. Just okay. Well, we have to learn somehow.

Ed

Uh yes, they had to learn somehow.

Kara

The hard way, apparently.

Ed

They also learned about the crosswinds affecting a gigantic ship like that, which by the way, a hundred thousand-ton ship of its class at that time is nothing compared to today. Um, think of a ship that is three football fields in length. That's how big the Torre Canyon is. Um, most oil tankers today are five times longer than that. And they're double hauled. And yeah, there's so much that goes into an oil tanker. I had no idea that there was a difference between a ton and a ton, and a ton and a ton. It just depends on how many N's it has, how many E's that it has, and how many S's it has, and what it's hauling. But once you understand that a ton is not a ton, but a ton isn't a ton, then there's a ton and a ton that's not a ton unless it's a ton.

SPEAKER_05

You're breaking me. I'm heards.

Kara

Are there tons of them? Are there tons of tons? Of tons.

Ed

Yeah, I'm just looking at this. Like, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_05

But ultimately, tons in my dreams.

Ed

Yes. Yeah. Tons, tons. Ultimately, these junior officers, while Rugiati was asleep, decided that they were going to not go around the aisle of silly, but then they were gonna go shoot that gap, and they didn't account for the fact that the ship was an autopilot, and no matter how they tried to control things, it wouldn't have worked. And um, yeah, even though they were loaded with a hundred thousand tons, American tons, T O N S, not T-O-N-A-S or T-O-N-N-E-S, or T-O-N-E-E-S, or T O N N E apostrophe S, that's irrelevant. The fact is, is that they thought that the wind wouldn't affect them, and they collided their port side, I think it was the port side, and it was the starboard. The side of the ship collided with a rock, and it literally cracked the entire ship in half. And if you look at pictures of it, you can see where the superstructure. So at this time, the superstructure was located right at the middle, and the superstructure is like the tower, right? This is where everybody slept, this is where all the windows were, this is all the observation decks, and yeah, it it cracked right in the middle of it, and you can see pictures of this entire ship that's three football fields in size just split in half, and within minutes, the oil that came out of this thing covered first a couple hundred thousand square yards, and then it was a couple hundred thousand square yards, and then it was millions of square yards to the point where I think it was something to the effect of 278,000 square miles of oil.

SPEAKER_05

Jeez, oh yeah, I'm looking at these pictures.

Ed

That's I have two, yeah, that is a lot. It is yeah, it is gnarly. Okay, Britain's response. So, first things first, you gotta get the crew out because the ship had run aground, and what they had to do is they sent life rafts out to the ship, but they also had to account for what phase the moon was in. Since it was like a full moon, that meant that high tide would be like five to ten feet higher than what it would normally be. So, like the crew had to time their jump like five to ten seconds early. So when they saw this life raft was like 40-50 feet below them, that is when they would have to jump. Because then the tide would bring up the life raft, and then it would only be like a 10-foot drop. If they didn't time it right, like if they tried to wait until the raft was all the way up the side of the ship, when they jumped then, then it would be like a 40-foot drop because the raft was coming down off the hull and they would die. So not only that, like they had to figure that crap out, which surprisingly, uh as far as I understand, nobody died. Like they all made it out. So that was Britain's immediate concern was get the crew off of there. But then it turned into a three-stage question. Question one: how do we stop the leaking oil? How do we stop the spread of the oil in the water? And then how do we clean up the coastlines? And it started a 10-day long frantic cleanup process or damage control and and whatnot. So it took only what a day or so for the oil to start coming ashore of Cornwall. So the oil was drifting out towards the east. Surprisingly, Scilly were fine. The islands of Scilly didn't have any issues. In fact, the Isle of Scilly, the people watched as this went down, and all these fishing vessels were out there when they saw the Torrey Canyon show up, they're like they were waving, like, go around. Go, don't trust us. They even tried to like blockade the Tory Canyon. They're like, Don't do it. You're heading right for a gigantic rock. You're gonna run aground. And then once they saw that the ship wasn't gonna slow down, then they bugged out, and then they're just like, Well, like, oh might as well watch. Yeah, right, we're gonna watch this because this is gonna be a podcast episode someday.

Kara

Jerry, go get the popcorn and my binoculars.

Ed

Uh yes, uh, Wyndon, would you please grab me the binoculars and a cup of tea, please? That would be great because this is gonna be a scone. Yeah, and a scone. This is gonna be amazing. Scone. Okay. So, but yeah, no, like the aisles of silly. They were fine, shockingly, the whole thing. So they watched all of this. Now, if you go to that peninsula of Cornwall, that was a different story. Uh, within days, the oil slick hit that shoreline, and it was so thick, like it was three to four inches thick of pure oil floating on top of the ocean. And people said at that time that it was very scary because it the ocean was dead silent. There was no sound coming from the ocean, and even like those of us have been to like California, like you can hear the waves coming up and and stuff like that, but the oil weights all that down, and they said that the whole coastline was dead silent.

Kara

Yeah, that'd be really eerie.

Ed

Yeah, imagine go to Santa Monica and you're standing on the beach line and you hear nothing.

SPEAKER_05

No, that's uh yeah, yep.

Ed

And it only took just a few days later before the coastline of Brittany, which Brittany, if anybody studies the 15, 160, 1700s, 1800s British history, every week they were at war with France, and Brittany was the part of France that Britain conquered. And they held on to this tiny little chunk of land for a long time, long enough for France to be like, okay, fine, this is called Brittany, everything else is going to be French. So there's Brittany, there's Normandy, which that's its own dumpster fire in you know the 1940s. And then there's the Guernsey Island, which I had no idea. There is an island in between in the middle of the English Channel that has like a population of like 15 and a half or whatever. So that poor island got completely covered in oil. And Brittany in Normandy, in yeah. This is where you're that person in Britain or in London. You're like on the phone, like, hey, hey France, um, we we have an issue. We we um we we kind of cracked an oil tanker in half, and it's it's only leaking a hundred thousand tons.

Kara

It's only just a little bit.

Ed

Yeah, it's just a hundred thousand tons. It could be worse, it could be two hundred thousand tons. It's fine. Okay, yes, it's it's gonna be it's gonna be great. Yeah, yes, it's the largest oil tanker in the world, but it's only a hundred thousand tons of oil. It may destroy your entire coastline, but we're good for it. We'll we're good for it. Yeah, we'll we'll take care of it. So, yeah, uh it I would hate to have been that guy because the this this ballooned into such a hot mess that the world had never seen before, and here's the reason why nothing like this has ever happened before. The entire world knew that an oil tanker someday will run ashore, will crack in half, will dump millions of gallons of oil into the ocean. They knew that this was gonna happen someday, but they just didn't prepare for it. The first step is we gotta stop the oil leak. So blow up the Torre Canyon.

Kara

Perfect. That's what I would do.

Ed

Yes. Okay, like, yeah, let's just uh throw bombs out there left and right. So yeah, it was the first step was to get the Royal Air Force out, and I think they dropped 161 bombs on that ship. These were like four to five hundred pound bombs. I would say 75% of them missed, so they just blew up more coastline and they blew up more coral reefs, they blew up more fish than anything. Uh, people reported that they could just see dead fish floating everywhere from all the missed bombs. That is so bad. Yes. Oh, it gets worse. Oh, good. Most of the bombs missed, the bombs that did hit the Tori Canyon didn't blow up, and the ones that did blow up didn't do anything. Because the Tori Canyon had run aground. How do you sink a ship that is already sunk?

Kara

Now, I'm not a pilot and I can't aim worth anything, but the ship is huge. And it was expanded. It's doubled the size.

Ed

Yeah.

Kara

How do you miss? Okay, so are they trying not to hit like the two cities on each side of the channel?

Ed

Is that I'm just no, no, you're you're you're not wrong. And and the media ran with that. Okay. Because you're like, okay, you're one of the countries that defeated Hitler by blowing the crap out of Germany. How can you not hit a ship? And the reason being is that they were using not bombers but fighter jets. These were jets that have to stay afloat in the air by traveling faster than the speed of sound. So when you come down at say 12, 14, 1500 miles an hour, you have a less than a second window to actually drop your bomb, and these bombs dated back to World War II.

Kara

Okay, I get it now. That makes sense.

Ed

For me, it was just like, oh god. So yeah, they tried to blow the Tory Canyon up. That didn't work. The other idea behind bombing the Torrey Canyon was to light the oil on fire. Nice. Yes, the idea was to ignite the oil so that it would just burn and turn into a giant plume of smoke where it would just drift off to another country and become their problem.

SPEAKER_05

Just go over there and just like they can deal with it. They can deal with it.

Ed

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

We gotta clear our stuff out.

Ed

Yes. That yeah, we're trying to fix a problem by making it somebody else's problem. Yeah, that didn't work because the ocean waves, because it was technically high tide, the ocean waves were putting out the fires. But there were like you can see pictures of this. There were people that were like sitting off of Cornwall and people coming out, and they were like sitting on the like the coastline of Silly, and they were just seeing this gigantic plume of smoke just billowing up everywhere, and they're like, We haven't seen this since World War II. Like, this is this is kind of cool. On top of dropping 161 bombs on the ship and trying to light all this oil on fire and get the smoke to be somebody else's problem. That didn't work, so it was more bombs. Bring out more bombs. This is the most American way to solve a problem.

SPEAKER_05

Blow it up. Keep trying, keep trying to blow it up, just keep dropping crap on it.

Ed

So they eventually they're like, Okay, the bombs ain't working. Let's use kerosene. Let's make the oil slick that is already incredibly toxic. Let's use kerosene on top of the oil to get it to burn.

SPEAKER_05

How have we made it this far species?

Kara

By making mistakes like these.

Ed

Yes. Yep. So, like the but I mean, in all fairness, I actually don't blame anybody. I really don't, because they've never encountered anything like this before in history.

SPEAKER_05

Well, sure, absolutely. But like come on.

Ed

I know, like us today we can look at it and be like, what are you doing? But back then they they had no idea.

SPEAKER_05

They don't have that culture.

Ed

Okay, but it gets worse. Great. They dropped all this kerosene on everything, and they tried to light it on fire, and that didn't work. Okay. Stage three. Use napalm.

SPEAKER_05

Yes. That was gonna be what I was gonna suggest.

Ed

That's the key. That that's yeah. See, in America, we would just start off with napalm. Just so those of you who may not know what napalm is, it it is basically gelatinized gasoline. So think of um, I I've played with this stuff before. Think of like uh jello, that's the consistency of napalm. It's like jello and it is really sticky, it has the kind of like the same consistency of honey and jello, it sticks to everything, like napalm. Like, if you get it on your hands, you can't get it off. It is so sticky. And imagine that stuff being on fire and it burns through that jelly. It's the reason why in Vietnam it was such a horrible, horrible weapon because they would drop napalm and it would make a fire plume hundreds of feet up in the air to the point where I I have an uncle who was a uh he was a B-52 bomber in Vietnam, and he dropped napalm on the Viet Cong, and one B-52 bomber could cover like 15 miles of just pure fire, and it would burn for days. This is how nasty this stuff is. So they're like, Okay, let's Americanize this, let's drop napalm on the Torrey Canyon, usually, and the ship was finally neutralized, it sank. So after days of dropping 161 bombs on this thing and kerosene, and then eventually napalm, their ship finally sank, which is funny because it's now home to a very healthy coral reef. Like it's almost as though nature had a better idea what to do than than humans. Okay, it gets worse. Usually, so the ship has been taken care of, but it gets so much worse. Uh, now there's the ecological issue. There is the issue of all the migratory birds because if you're a puffin flying around, you're looking down and you're like, okay, I need a poop and I need to procreate. Like, that's the only two things that's on your mind right now is I need to drop a hot load and catch a hot load. Like, I I need to take care of this stuff. You look down and you see this gigantic brown thing that looks like land, and you swoop down, and it turns out that it is nothing but two to three inches of oil. You're screwed because that oil seeps into the feathers and it causes the feathers to stick together, which then allows water to come in. So they're like a bunch of humans in icy cold water, and they would get hypothermia and die. Where was it? Oh, there was a there were these animal rescuers that came out to try to like collect these oily birds and clean them up. They lost count after 8,000. They're like, screw it, whatever. And one day they got like 8,000 birds are trying to clean up, and um yeah, it it they they gave up. There was probably tens of thousands of birds in wildlife that they were trying to clean up. So the next step is to use BP1002 because that sounds like a good idea. Anything that is BP 1002, doesn't sound sketchy at all.

Kara

Real good, yeah, yeah.

Ed

It turns out BP or British Petroleum 1002 detergent is a detergent that they use to strip the paint off of ships.

SPEAKER_07

Okay, hmm.

Ed

They thought that pouring this all over the ocean would help break up the oil. Okay, got it. Yeah, got it. I I I I have never come in contact with this stuff because it's banned by like every nation in the world because it is so caustic and so volatile that it will kill anything that comes in contact with it on top of the oil, which is good. Like it did, it did its job well. Like they had these fishing vessels coming up, just dumping thousands of gallons of this BP 1002 into the whole channel and the the the gap and the manacles, and and it did a great job. It it dissolved the oil, sort of, it broke it up into little pieces, which then now sank to the bottom of the channel and killed everything. Oh god, okay. So even the fish now and all the migratory whales and dolphins and all that crap that were passing through, they were all contaminated with it to the point where I was reading a research journal. I it wasn't for Cambridge, it was uh oh gosh, I can't I can't remember which university it was, but they're still finding larvae from worms that have this BP 1002 in it to this day.

Kara

Jeez.

unknown

Let's go.

Kara

Jeez, let's all just take a moment to appreciate Dawn soap, which was invented in the 70s.

Ed

I and I think it was invented for this reason.

Kara

I can see that now.

Ed

Well, and here's the thing is that British Brit British British Petroleum or BP marketed BP 1002 as like, guys, it's a detergent. You have this in your house. This is how you wash your laundry. It's okay, nothing bad's gonna happen. It killed everything in sight. So, like, the here are these animal rescuers that were coming out there trying to uh they were trying to like clean up these birds using this BP 1002, and um they quickly discovered that this detergent was killing the animals faster than the oil was. It gets worse.

SPEAKER_06

Okay.

Ed

On the coastlines, they thought it would be a good idea to use BP1002, and they got all these bulldozers out to one, they would just dump solid BP1002. This stuff is supposed to be mixed up in like a 1 to 10 water ratio. They were just dumping solid BP1002 on the coastline, and then they have bulldozers come up and then mix it with the sand to try to break up all this oil that was in the sand. Their goal, because this was March, the goal was to be able to have the coastlines cleaned up in time for the summer tourists show up.

SPEAKER_05

That's important. Yeah.

Ed

Which I mean, I I I can see it. Like, not only is it this a bad idea and kind of selfish monetary gains, but I can also see where they're coming from because at this time there were already tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of people that were canceling their reservations, and this would have been absolutely devastating to the fishing towns and all that stuff. So I can see where the British government was coming from in terms of like we gotta get this cleaned up fast. Meanwhile, like, hey France, um, we we've got a poo show heading your way. FYI, it's only 100,000 gallons of crude oil. We got you. We we we got it covered. So, in the process of using this detergent, the rescuers were getting sick because they were basically coming in direct contact with toxic levels of caustic soda for five years after this event. That whole entire Cornwall coastline just smelled of like bleach and ammonia. Oh, and and it killed everything. Right, right. But many argued that using that detergent was worse than the oil itself, it caused more damage than the oil itself, which okay, now we know the animal animal rescuers, they gave up counting birds after 8,000. It is believed that 85% of the avian wildlife died during this, including specific species like puffins and and all that. I don't know what birds live there because they've all died, but but yeah, there were there's I don't that's unreally insensitive. I'm I'm I'm sorry. Um, but there was a lot of animals that had been there for centuries that like 85% of them died from this. Uh, since most migratory birds went to this part of the world to reproduce, either they died or they just moved on. Like they're looking down and they're seeing like all their spouses and and whatnot just dying. They're like, I'm I'm gonna head to like Greenland or something. I'm just gonna go hang out here. This is this is a hot mess. So, like, yeah, an entire generation of birds were lost, and you're thinking, like, a guy's only a generation, but to backtrack to World War One, where Britain lost so many men, they they lost an entire generation of working/slash reproducing age men that even to this day they still have never recovered from that. For birds that don't live as long as humans do, to lose an entire generation of of a species that only lives for like seven to ten years is absolutely devastating. To this day, the wildlife has not returned to 100%, which is wild. Ultimately, after a couple of years, they gotta cleaned up. Meanwhile, in France, they're like, Oh, there's oil on our coastline. Okay, let's just wait and see what happens. And it turns out that the ocean has a specific type of bacteria that eats oil, it eats oil and it poops out nutrients that other things can live off of, like corals and and kelp and fish and krill and all that stuff. So basically, France is like, okay, we're just gonna let this be. We're gonna send all these like rowing colleges out to just mop up the beach line. Within a year, everything was cleaned up, it took care of itself. It's almost as though like the ocean knows what to do when humanity screws up.

Kara

You know, okay, but it gets worse.

Ed

Give me a break. For me, this is the actual dumpster fire.

SPEAKER_04

What?

Ed

Okay, because the media and public outcry was borderline violent. If you want to be the most hated person in the world, all you need to be is a president or prime minister of a major nation during an ecological disaster, such as the Tory Canyon spill. There was absolutely nothing. Britain's prime minister, Harold Wilson, which is the most British name out there. Harold Wilson.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ed

Like, I'm sorry, you you don't go to South Korea and find a Harold Wilson.

SPEAKER_05

Not wrong.

Ed

It it only exists, it only the a Harold Wilson only exists in England and nowhere else. Not even in America will you find a Harold Wilson.

Kara

I bet you could find at least one in a nursing home. Definitely.

Ed

So, like, I I I don't know too much about uh Prime Minister or Prime Minister Harold Wilson's politics or conservative or liberal or whatever, but I do feel like this guy tried, and nothing this guy did was received well because again, this had never happened before. So he one, he was criticized for the crash, which he had zero control over. He was criticized for the Royal Air Force's attempt to sink a ship that had already run aground. The ship had already sunk. It sunk on ground. You can't sink a ship that's already sunk. But he took crap for that. Uh he was criticized for the cleanup attempts, which were all all out of his control. He was lambasted for the use of detergents uh to clean up the oil, which he didn't even make the call on. He he had nothing to do with that decision, and we haven't even gotten to Captain Roggiati. And for me, this is the worst of the worst of the worst. This guy was asleep when the decision was made by a junior officer to make the change of direction using outdated maps, not knowing the ship's controls were in manual or automatic mode. He was completely detached from all of this because the guy had already been up for like 20 hours. So he was trying to just get a few hours of sleep when his officers decided to make this change. Needs to say, Rugiati took the entire blame. And here's the kicker: he actively assumed 100% of the blame. He said that this was 100% his fault, not his officers' fault. Like, he being the captain of this ship, he's like, this is all on me. This is 100% on me. I don't care if I was asleep or whatnot. I sh I I'm assuming the reasoning was that he's like, I didn't train my officers well enough. I didn't get the most updated maps because Rogiadi knew that this was a dangerous stretch of ocean to go through. He knew all this, but he didn't tell his officers. That he knew all of this stuff and he assumed the complete responsibility all upon himself. He actively went out to the media and told them that this was his fault. He never once I could not find any article or any news report in in like newspapers.com. I guess Time magazine has this thing where you can bring up news articles that they published like in 1967.

SPEAKER_04

That's cool.

Ed

Yeah. I I had no idea, but yeah, you can you can look up everything that was ever published at that time. So he I could not find anything where he placed the blame on anybody else.

SPEAKER_05

What a what a guy. Yeah.

Ed

Yeah. Yeah. No, like this guy is pretty incredible. I I really wish he was still alive. I would love to have met this guy. He saved his junior officers' careers because he blocked up their names. He absolutely refused to acknowledge that there were even junior officers on the bridge. It this was all on him. And the media went after him with a vengeance to the point where he had to be hospitalized. And even when he was hospitalized, the media broke into the hospital and then charged his room. And there I have it on the yet the show notes here. There's a famous picture of him hiding underneath his hospital bed as photographers rushed his room to get a picture of him while he was having an emotional breakdown. And it just blows my mind that the media is still like this to this day. Just so offensively obtusive and obstructive, and just uh make sure, Kara, when you when you when you put this up on our website, make sure you get that picture in there because it is a very, very shocking picture. Yeah. At the end of the day, here's the thing the ocean knows how to take care of its own. It knew how to clean this mess up better than humanity did. And now today, like things are okay. Although some people still report that they can they can still smell the detergent.

Kara

Kind of like the molasses boss.

Ed

Yeah. I would rather smell molasses.

Kara

Yeah.

Ed

Than bleach and ammonia. Um and molasses. But yeah, like then began the lawsuits. And and here's the thing: it's like, who is ultimately responsible for this? Who is like scrolling up here when we look at all the different right owned by Barracuda Tanker Corporation, which is a subsidiary of the Union Oil Company of California, registered to the country of Liberia, and then chartered by BP. Uh here is how this lawsuit unfolded. So all oil tankers were insured. They were insured for about $1.6 million. That was to cover the loss of the oil in case something ran aground. Because nothing like this had ever happened before. There was absolutely no idea in terms of like what happens to the environment, what happens to the wildlife, what happens to all the stuff when a when a tanker like this runs ashore. Because before, whenever something happened, it was in the middle of the ocean, it sank, and nobody cared. We are still dealing with a world that was like, wait, the ocean is the recipient of all of our trash. And even even the prime minister at that time is like, yeah, at the time, we just assume that the ocean is a thing that we dump everything into. So who cares what happens to it? And I think that's probably one of the biggest changes that came from this is like, wait a second, the ocean shouldn't be the catch-all of humanity's stupidity. And this was the thing that really changed that. So who had to pay for all this? So ultimately it was the American company, or was that Union Union Oil Company of California? Yeah. Yep. The Union Oil Company of California, they they claimed piracy.

Kara

They claimed piracy.

Ed

This is how they got the insurance to pay for it. They they were attacked by pirates.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

Ed

Reason being is that the Isles of Scilly sit outside of Britain's national recognized water lines. So whatever happens to a ship outside of those water lines is an act of piracy. And since Britain dropped bombs on it, got it, it was an act of piracy.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

unknown

Okay.

Ed

And that is how, because of that, that is how they got their insurance company to pay the three million dollar nice payout to cover everything. So what is three million dollars?

SPEAKER_05

Back then.

Ed

Um was inflation calculator. Uh not now. Okay. I'm trying to get this thing up. Okay, so if in 1967 and you had three 00000 27,702, that's what that insurance company had to pay out. Jeez, Louise. And on top of that, that ship every year. So if you had an oil tanker back then, every year you had to shell out $300,000 in insurance in case if it ever sank, just to cover the loss of the oil. The funny thing is, is that like France found a way to like suck up the oil and then they just use it for themselves, like made gasoline and plastic and whatnot. In the Isles of Scilly, they were able to suck up the oil and then they just dumped it into an old abandoned rock quarry where it just biodegraded and just turned back into water and carbon and whatnot. And because of this, now it is mandatory that all oil tankers in the world have to be double hauled. They you can't just have an oil tanker with a single wall, you have to have 16 inches of pure steel for the outer hull, and then you have to have a gap, and then on the inner hole, you have to have another 16 inches of steel so that even if the outer hull gets damaged, the inner hull is okay. Which is a reason why, like after this, and then after the Exxon Valdez, which by the way, the Exxon Valdez in Alaska was like five times bigger than this whole mess, and now things are done a little differently. So, this is one of these cases where like I don't know, it it's so easy to look up, say like Henry the Eighth, who's like the biggest douchebag in history, and you can point all fingers at him and blame him for everything and say like Henry the Eighth is the douche, but who's at fault here? How what was the right response? Obviously, knowing today, we know, like, guys, stop pouring detergent into the ocean, like this is a bad idea. But I honestly can't fault anybody here, and I can't fault Russiati, I can't even fault the junior officers for using maps that were decades out of accuracy and all that stuff. But yeah, I'm I'm just thinking back to this guy in London. Hey, this is Swindon. Um we have a bit of an issue. Um, it's only 100,000 gallons of crude oil, but we're on it. Don't worry. This will blow over, and it didn't. And I feel like it because Deja, I don't I don't know your your background, but Kara and I have had many occasions in the trucking industry where we've had a call at the customer and be like, hey, um so your uh your truck full of paper.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah the the it caught on fire.

Ed

You know that the driver's dog food um that was frozen yesterday is now burning in Donner's Pass right now. Um the driver's okay.

Kara

The driver's fine.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Remember the story I told you guys yesterday about the call I had to make to my resident. Oh yeah. Oh, which one? Maybe that was some the nunchuck one.

Kara

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05

That's that'll be it feels like it might be a little bit.

Kara

That covers it.

SPEAKER_05

It was uncomfortable.

Kara

If you want to write us and get that story from us, then then you can write us in.

SPEAKER_05

But yeah, yeah, but I will not that will not be set on.

Kara

But um we won't say that live.

Ed

But yeah, no, that that's a story of the uh the Tory Canyon oil spill that is just like it's one of those things where you get halfway through it and you're like, oh, but it gets worse. And then three quarters of the way through it, but like, wait, it gets worse.

Kara

Listeners, every time Ed's dead, wait, it gets worse. Deja and I, our faces went into our hands.

Ed

Yeah, the face bombs. You guys don't have the cameras turned on, audience, but I saw Deja and Kara just like, oh god.

SPEAKER_04

Every time.

Ed

Over and over and over.

Kara

Deep sigh. Yeah. My forehead's red now.

Ed

So yeah, it's super late at night. I want to wrap this up. Who's who's up next? I know, Kara, we we just did your episode on using gunpowder to blow yourself up trying to get into space.

Kara

That was a good time.

Ed

Um Deja, wait, you have something like demonic slash evil slash.

SPEAKER_05

We've got over this many times. Cancel culture-ish, like Yes, we're gonna be talking about Salman Rushdie and his uh choice that may or may not have potentially ruined or not ruined his life. I mean depending on how you look at it. Because I feel like he he does not feel like his life is ruined personally. And we'll get there, but even though he literally got stabbed in the back. Oh, is that all straight optimistic? He's fine. Life not ruined. Just you're like fine.

Ed

I always thought it was like demonic, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_05

Or cultish, like no, no, no, it's it's very much it has a lot to do with religion, but um in a like this religion was very deeply offended, you know, and so it comes into cancel culture and okay, you know, you kind of bring it all in. So it's it's uh it's a doozy. It sounds like a doozy. We'll see if we can fit it into one because every time I click on something new, I'm like, wait, but there's more. It's an iceberg, everybody. This is like if there was an iceberg after the iceberg, after the iceberg that the Titanic ran into. Oh beautiful. Love it. And and at the end of it, and they just all kept running into it.

Ed

And then if they made it through all the icebergs, then they hit the Tory Canyon.

Kara

Like a pinball, a Tory at the end. There.

Ed

Oh god, like just broadside the thing and like split, and now we have oil everywhere, and Grand.

Kara

Well, I'm excited for that one.

Ed

I I'm very excited for that one because I think I have a lot of misconceptions about that. I I listen to a lot of podcasts about like I don't know, the the paranormal and and weird stuff that goes on, and they bring up Salmon Rushdie and like the stuff that he was into. Definitely. I I don't know if any of it's true or not. I just listen to it because they're just fantastic funny stories. Um but I'm I'm looking forward to get my uh get my bearings straight on this guy.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I I heard about this um a couple years ago before the stabbing of the bodies and all that. Um so it's been something that like when that did happen, I was I have just been kind of obsessively like and taking all of this information, like give it all to me. I wanna be an expert, and now my head hurts. Um I feel like I read this book that I never read. I'm still confused. Um, so it'll be fun. It'll be it's very interesting, it's very deep. It can get a little little deep, a little serious, but Salmon also has some things that are pretty, pretty funny, also. So there we go.

Ed

Okay. I'm gonna have to read up on this guy then.

Kara

I'm I'm gonna think about a palette cleanser episode after these two bad boys.

unknown

Yes.

Kara

I'll figure something out.

SPEAKER_06

Yes.

Ed

Actually, I thought your episode, Kara, was supposed to be the palette cleanser.

Kara

I mean, like it was, but if we're going to release it first and then these two after that, I gotta find another one.

Ed

Our audience is tough, they can handle it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I need I need the palette cleanser. It's not them. It's me. Exactly. It's me. They can handle it. I know. Respect for the audience. No, it's me.

Ed

So um that's our episode. We'll um we'll we'll catch you on the next one. Deja, looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_05

It's yeah, me too.

Ed

And um, yeah, I guess just keep it a hot mess.

SPEAKER_05

Thanks. Thank you.