SPEAKER_00

Hey guys, it's Deja.

Kara

This is Kara.

Ed

And this is Ed.

SPEAKER_00

And this is the day's dumpster fire.

Ed

What are we doing? Got it. There we go.

SPEAKER_02

Yay.

Ed

Yeah, I I don't know why I was playing twice, but you know what? It's fine.

SPEAKER_00

We made it.

Ed

Yes. We we made an introduction.

SPEAKER_00

How are you feeling?

Ed

An hour later we did it.

unknown

Yes.

Ed

How are we feeling? Like.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. How are you guys feeling?

Ed

Is the school year over with?

SPEAKER_00

Nope.

unknown

I forgot.

Kara

Let me go.

SPEAKER_00

Deja, remember, 30 more days.

Ed

Yeah, no, it and what's so funny is that I have realized that we have spent the past hour trying to get our microphones synchronized.

SPEAKER_00

Trying to get Kara back.

Kara

Trying to get Kara back because she had like I had to update. I didn't know.

Ed

Yes. Yeah, she had 300 updates awaiting.

Kara

It was just that security update for Microsoft on this computer. However, on my work computer, it was about 30 updates.

Ed

Yeah, no, your work computer is hilarious because it was just like, well, I'm just gonna sit here for a while. And just and yeah, like one update after another to come in. But like during all this time, we never came up with a trash can fire. That's our trash can fire.

SPEAKER_00

That is our yeah, that's our transcan fire.

Ed

Well, yes, except for I really do have a trash can fire that is a dumpster/slash tire fire in the making.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So Friday anything to do with Thursday.

Ed

No, no, no, it had it has to do with Friday. Okay. Um, I was driving home and my wife calls me, and she's like, Hey, let me tell you about this case at work. Apparently, going all the way back to like 1922, people have been dumping tires in this super remote part of Arizona, and then burning them. So naturally, you'd be thinking, like, okay, like, okay, it obviously falls into the Arizona state grounds, but then also Arizona is broken up by counties, and so the counties are like, that's your problem, not my problem. And then that county is like, no, it's your problem, not my problem, because all these tires have been laid out in between the county barriers that date all the way back to the 1920s, so like literally no county is laying claim to this. There's like a hundred million dollars worth of tires there that nobody will pay for and nobody will show ownership for, and it's a poo show all the way to the finish. Because guess what? My wife has to deal with the lawyers of each county, the attorney generals, and neither of them actually have the ability to write a check to get it cleared up.

Kara

That's a good time, yeah.

Ed

Yeah, it it's like yeah, it's like millions of dollars worth of tires just chilling out there that people have been letting on fire since 1924, which I guess dates back to before Arizona was actually a state, and um, yeah, everybody's just washing their hands of it.

Kara

Nice.

Ed

So my wife, who is the red tape dispenser for the government, is like completely stymied, and there's nothing she can do. And I'm like, cool. Tag, you're it. The rest of us school teachers are gonna go to work tomorrow and figure out the other dozen to half dozen issues. Yeah, no kidding.

Kara

30 days left, 30 days, 30 business days, not counting weekends.

Ed

So, given that, Deja, I know you started a rather fascinating biopic of Selman Rushdie.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Um dogs.

Ed

We have some dogs. I love how Kara Kara loves to record with the noisiest animals known to mankind in a single recording room.

Kara

Okay, but look, I have my quiet dog in here with me. My husband went to go get groceries while we were recording, and I didn't think about when he gets home.

Ed

Okay, so next week I'm gonna have some family members out of my house. I'm gonna bring in both Tuco and Freddie. Freddy's the gay parrot. Tuco is the spirit of Tuco from Breaking Bad, and I'm gonna have them both in the background screaming because Tuco is like George Takai.

SPEAKER_03

He's like, oh rrrr. Oh rrrr.

Ed

And then Tuco in the background is gonna be like tight, tight, tight, tight, oh, that's tight, and he's just gonna be going on and on and on while we're trying to record whatever it is that we're doing, and it's gonna sound like a mixture of Star Trek from 1960s to breaking bad the first three seasons. Okay, all right, and then I'm gonna make you guys down the download the editing software. I don't want to have you guys edit that stuff out.

SPEAKER_00

Don't do that. Don't do that.

Ed

It it it'll be more funny than anything.

SPEAKER_00

All right, so yeah, let's um let's get into it. Let's talk about kind of let's go over what we talked about last week. So or yeah, last week two weeks ago. Um it's been a while. So we talked about Salman Rushdie and who he was. He is a writer. He was he's Indian born but British educated. Wrote a great novel called The Midnight Children, and that was a success. His next book was The Satanic Verses. The Satanic Verses is a novel that really turned his life into something I don't think he realized he was turning it into. That being said, this book was uh very controversial. He uh was accused of blasphemy, and Muslims were enraged around the world. And we talked about Ayat Al-Khamini, the supreme leader, the religious leader of um Iran. He he was a very happy man. He showed it in every picture you can find on Google. Um I'm just kidding. He was not uh a smiler, but he was not happy about this this novel, so yeah. I mean, without going all the way back into the episode, let's kind of go from there because we left off at him finding out about the novel and and just kind of his feelings about it, I suppose.

Ed

So yeah, that kind of goes into No, I was I was just gonna say, is this like Salmon Rushdie really didn't intend this book to be defensive?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I mean I don't think the intention was there. I don't think he realized the like mass the just massive public reaction that he got. And we'll get into the public reaction, we're gonna jump into that here in a second. But yeah, he definitely didn't intend, but I'm gonna say he had a feeling that it could upset some people for sure. You know, he did make a statement saying that.

Ed

Well, and and it may have tied into some of the characters, you know, like, you know, Gibriel instead of Gabriel and Mehmed instead of Muhammad. Like uh there there was a very specific scene where Mohammed or Mehmed was kind of really deceived, but like the way Rushdie put it, it was just like, no, no, no, no. Like, it it's not supposed to be solely focused on that, it's supposed to be focused on like the human side of things.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and so like Rushdie Rushdie was just like, hey, I I did not intend this to be super offensive, but then again, though, I kind of see how it could be a little hidden in Nuendos, if you will, that are kind of pointing towards what he could be portraying, and so I think that's kind of where he uh it's just really hard to kind of really truly know if he like if there was that. I don't know, I feel like he kind of knew what he was doing. Just saying.

Ed

I I I I get that feeling too. I I I get that feeling too, like kind of like how like to kill a mocking bird is to really criticize racism in America, but in a way, Harper Lee kind of like skirts around it a little bit, but ultimately the book is about racism in America, and I think that's where Salmon Rushdie is is kind of a really good author, is that he introduced this impossible surrealism, right? Like the like the main character of the book doesn't want to sleep, he holds himself awake all the time because every time he falls asleep, he teleports back in time where he's altering human history.

SPEAKER_00

Someone read the book a little bit, huh?

Ed

A little, a little bit, yes. Yeah, I'm like halfway through it. And and I'm like, I also tried. Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm doing a deep dive into it just because it's just like what is this guy saying? And I feel like he's trying to say a lot, and it's not to be a criticism of any religion, it's not to be a criticism of anything, it's just to be like, guys, believe believe what you feel is supposed to be believed, and just like understand that everybody else is allowed to believe what they want to believe.

SPEAKER_00

Well, so I also wanted to like kind of jump back into part one. I I wanted to kind of make a correction, but like also emphasize that during the 80s, Rushdie was very on the left side. Uh after going back through and you know, continuing my notes and whatnot, I I started continuing to listen to more podcasts and different podcasts than I had already been exposed to. So I wanted to just go back and emphasize that he was very um on the left side. Okay. And uh I get I I get that vibe. As time has gone by, I want to say he's gone closer towards the middle, but I still do believe that he's on that that left left wing side. But yeah, going let's kind of talk about the public reaction because it's this episode is gonna be kind of a hard one, and so yeah, we definitely need a palette cleanser after because there is a lot of bad stuff that has happened since the release of this book.

Kara

I got you. I'll figure that out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I had to have like a palette cleanser. I couldn't even listen to I've been listening to the audiobook of the satanic verses. It's one, you can't listen to it, you gotta read it and listen to it if you're gonna be able to listen to. So I stopped. There was just when this book came out initially in 1988, there was a lot of anger. The satanic verses was released in the UK five months before the fatwa was even declared. And within those five months, the public reaction was pretty crazy. It got very violent very quickly. Protests were being held against Salman Rushdie and the Satanic Verses, and this kind of split the Muslim community into sides. You're either for, you know, for the book or you're for Islam. And there's no in between. It was really very black and white. Um now.

Ed

Do you think it was a title that could have altered that? Like let's say he named it the alternative verses or the inconceivable verses or anything of that nature. Do you think if he would have named it or titled it something else, that it it wouldn't have turned into this mess?

SPEAKER_00

That the response would be different. I don't think so. I mean, going back into part one, we did talk about how the satanic verses was such a big part of the upset because the uh meaning behind the satanic verses or the the part in the Quran that was taken out of or that was ripped from the Quran, that is labeled the Satanic Verses, because it was Satan speaking to the prophet. So it definitely is a huge, huge part of the reason why people are really upset. But I definitely don't think the reaction would have been any different because of all the extra things within the book that is very obviously pointed towards the prophet. Mahound being, you know, the the like um kind of a discriminatory name towards Mohammed and the names of Mohammed's wives being the sex workers, you know what I mean? There are so many other added components to the reaction that came. Okay. There's it would have, I don't think it would have changed anything, honestly.

Ed

I wonder if Rushdie changed Gibril. Because it the the way I read it, it was just like Gibril was like transported back in time, and it was his job to read or to write the script of humanity, not knowing that he was actually writing the script of humanity, and since Gibril was technically a movie actor and a highly acclaimed Bollywood actor, but then he's also the archangel of God, like bring him back in time and have him write the script the way it should have been to introduce peace. But is it possible that Gibriel himself was accidentally speaking the words of Satan?

SPEAKER_00

So that does actually that is a part of the book that is kind of that difference between good and evil. There the story between Saladin and Gibriel is Saladin became or you know started to have the features of Satan, you know, the the feet and the horns and the legs, you know, so on and so forth. And Gibriel was taking on the characteristics of the archangel.

SPEAKER_05

Got it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and so towards the end, and again, I have not finished this book, and so it is so hard for me to like really wrap my head around the summaries.

Ed

I would be curious to hear Kara's take on this because we all know she's a a foremost expert on Hindi Muslim religious literature.

Kara

I did not read it. I did not read any summaries. And I'm sure our audience didn't either, and I'm sure all of us collectively are thoroughly confused.

SPEAKER_00

It's it is really it is a challenge, you know, and I think the the the characters in the book, so they both kind of struggle with getting their lives put back together after the the transformation in this like incident, this attack. Because again, the plane was hijacked and it exploded and they were falling, and that's when they transformed into and they were stuck in that plane for like a hundred plus days. And so yeah, and so they have they're like it's kind of talking about how they're trying to get their lives back into shape, and at the very end, I'm pretty sure I think that Saladine rescues someone. Oh gosh, I'm so sorry, and I'll have to like look it up or something real quick because I'm having a hard time remembering, but it's more like the lives turned. So you would think that Saladine would become this evil person and he struggled, but Gibriel ended up being the one that ultimately betrayed and killed his wife.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And I'll uh I'll take a moment to to look into it because I I'm trying to remember all of it in the beginning. I've got I've got it down because I read it and I've read the summaries multiple times, and that part I get it.

Ed

I've listened to it multiple times, but that I that that would actually make a lot of sense. It it really would. And and and I know like you and I are like midway through the book, and Kara's just like, hey, I'm just putting together a lesson on the 100 years war. And she's doing great too. That's it. Yeah, she's like, I I'm I'm just doing my thing here. I'm just trying to make a lesson of the 100 years' war, where Deja and I are like, what were the social, economic, and religious implications of Gibriel's decisions?

Kara

From I'm just waiting for the public's reaction where the fire is. I'm just waiting for the fire to be lit.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so well, the fire is starting. Okay, so the the book was released in 198 1988, okay. In the UK. Now, like I said, it took five months um to kind of summarize what we already went through. To it took about five months for the book to be released until the Fatwa was issued. And there was a lot of protesting, there was a lot of violence that ensued between that time period. There were there were bombings, there were killings, there were attempted killings amongst a lot of different people. Um Salman Rashdi actually ended up hiring a bodyguard by October. Um and mosques were printing out pages of the pages that were blasphemous and posting it on their wall in the mosque and then mailing it to other mosques to do the same. And on December twenty December 22nd of 1988 in Bolton, um, a town in Greater Manchester, England, 7,000 Muslims held the first protest against the novel. And this is also where you start to see the tradition of burning the book. Um at the end of the year.

Ed

So you're you're saying this is this is where the dumpster fire uh kind of catches.

SPEAKER_00

Again, this is where the fire has been lit. Uh I would say uh days after the book was released, it it was lit. Honestly, it was it's pretty quick if you think about it. You know, that's a couple months. That's not a lot of time.

Ed

Yeah, it it's it's so tricky for me because it's like I understand why people would find it offensive. But then again, though, who cares? So what?

SPEAKER_00

No kidding.

Ed

So what if if you interpret this as offensive? You yourself as a human being, you're fully entitled to see this thing as being offensive. But is it really offensive to the point where you have to get your government involved? Your religion involved? Is it to the point where you really have to like put a hit on a human being's life?

SPEAKER_00

That's I mean, that's the moral of the story. I feel is it really worth the lives of others to feel such deep emotion and betrayal about some words that were printed? But again, this is not my faith, and I don't I don't want to say that I don't understand why they're upset, you know, why Muslims would be upset over the writings of this book. I don't agree with the violence. That's just not I don't think that it's okay to go to that point.

Ed

Yeah, yeah. For for me, it's kind of the opposite. It's like I can understand why. Somebody would be offended by this, but I also agree with you. There should be no violence.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Ed

If you if you're really offended by it, write your own book. Like counter it with your own literature. You know, like leave it to the prefrontal cortexes of human beings to sort this stuff out. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

I guess I'm just yeah, no, I get what you're saying.

Ed

Kind of at the point where it's just like, hey, look, if you say something offensive, the offensive party needs to be able to retaliate in the same medium that the original person said something offensive and just leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but just freaking move on. Yeah, there's so much to go with it, you know. But going back to December 2nd, 1988, um, after Friday's prayer, protesters marched um to a from you guys can see the notes. Can you please help me on this? I've I really have tried many times to say it. Hang on here. Zachariah James Masjid.

Ed

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_00

I haven't brought up the notes.

Kara

I think you're pretty close.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that might be about right. Don't worry. Well they marched.

Kara

We can edit this. I'm I'm working on it. Uh we we did it on practice. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00

They m yeah, well Ed, when you find it and you figure it out, interrupt. But they marched from Zachariah, J. Masjid to the town center. And the CFN somehow did not receive the biggest media coverage. Um, so many were not aware, but that's a lot of people, if you ask me. So it's kind of crazy that that went unseen. Um, several countries such as India, Pakistan, uh, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and many more had banned the book by January of 1989, actually. Um, and I I tried to like find the exact number, but I couldn't find a solid, consistent number, but about 20 books, or excuse me, about 20, 20 countries burnt. We're doing it. 20 countries banned the book.

Ed

Got it. Okay, I think I think I got it. So you're talking about Zachariah James Masahid.

SPEAKER_00

Is it ma is that your guess is about as good as that?

Ed

M-A-S-J-I-D.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Mashid.

Ed

Yeah, it would be it would be Zachariah James Mahidid. Okay. The J is almost like a hyphen.

SPEAKER_00

Like a okay.

Ed

Yeah, Zachariah James Masahid.

SPEAKER_00

To the town center.

Ed

Got it.

SPEAKER_00

They went from there to the town center. So so yeah, that uh that's kind of the start of these these bigger protests. Then you go to Bradford, and this riot is pretty important. So the Bradford riot happened in January of four uh January 14th, 1989. Bradford is kind of the heart of the Muslim community in Britain, and their population is is pretty massive. Um, so this and I want to make it very clear that in the 80s, Muslims were extremely discriminated against. Again, they were extremely discriminated against, were treated, I would say, is the equivalent of black people in America, honestly. I think that that needs to be very clear. So Bradford is really important to the Muslim community. So what's really interesting is there is a Bradford Council of Moss or for Mosques, um, and this is a community organization created to support and allow this multiracial city to have an equal right to maintain its own identity, culture, language, religion, and customs. But this is also the same mosque that organized the book burning protests. February 12th, in 1989, there was another riot. This time it was an attack on the US Cultural Center, burning the book, of course, because this is gonna be a tradition. Um, six people were killed, a hundred were injured. As the protest spread, a demonstrator was killed, and over a hundred more were injured in Srinargar? Srinagar? Srinagar?

Ed

Uh Srinargar.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Jammu and Kashmir. Um, this is leading into the day. Valentine's Day of 1989 was the day the fatwa was issued. Ayatollah Khamini issued this fatwa stating, I would like to inform all the intrepid Muslims in the world that the author of the book titled The Satanic Verses, which was compiled, printed, and published in opposition to Muslim, or excuse me, Islam, the Prophet, and the Quran, as well as those pro publishers who were aware of its contents, have been declared Mahad Madrad. I have practiced this word so many times, and I'm bad with words. Go for it, Ed I see studying it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Madura Dum. Madradum.

Ed

I'm trying to figure it. Yeah. Former ruling interpretation on a point of Islamic Islamic law given by a qualified scholar known as uh Muftui of Twa cannot be rescinded by anyone besides the person who first issued it. Um I would like to inform all the inter Muslims. The intrepid part is the thing that interests me. Muslims in the world, that the author of the book titled The Satanic Verses, which has been compiled, printed, and published in opposition to Islam, the Prophet, and the Quran, as those publishers who were aware of his contents have been declared uh I think it's pronounced Mahaduran or Mahadur. No, it's muduran. Yeah, Ma Maduradon.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I'm doing my best.

Ed

Yeah, whose whose blood whose blood it is lawful to shed, meaning he's putting a hit up for this guy.

SPEAKER_00

So, yes, I call on all zealous Muslims to execute them quickly where they find them so that no one will dare insult Islam again. And they and and then awarding one million dollars for the murder of Salem and three million if you were in Iran or from Iran. Um Rashi then goes into hiding two days later. So I every every podcast, every article was really intense with this day. Just the deep uh what's the just the deep emotion behind this was so it was just so massive. Um so yeah, if I were someone, I would definitely have gone into hiding two days after. Uh wouldn't have given it a second minute. Nope.

Ed

That's scary stuff.

SPEAKER_00

It's really scary. I mean, considering just how deep the faith can be, and just I mean, you see extremists in many different religions, and you see different ideologies and how they can go, what like what extent they can go to. So I don't know. I just think that's so scary.

Ed

Well, yeah, and and I I think this is kind of where the dumpster fire catches on fire.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. It's because like it's on fire.

Ed

Yes, yeah. When when you have to go into hiding for whatever reason for something that you wrote, the dumpster fire has been lit. Yes. And I think in this case, it's just like, guys, Henry David Thoreau wrote a lot more sketchier stuff in his 10 years just living on his own. The Declaration of Independence was sketchier stuff. And and and and while I I 100% understand why someone reading this book would be offended by it. I to me it's just like reaction. Yeah, it's just like why do you have to escalate things from say like a 10 to a thousand?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it gets, I mean, it doesn't get any easier because on February 24th, 1989, around one, or excuse me, around 10,000 protesters marched. The British High Commission um in Mumbai, India. Police opened fired, killing 12 people, and over 40 others were injured. Um, bookstores in Berkeley, California were firebombed along within the Bronx. Um, Iran actually it gets so political that um Iran broke diplomatic ties with Britain in March of 1989. So remember when you guys were questioning where the dumpster dumpster fire was in this story? I'm gonna continue.

Kara

Um I think we found it.

Ed

Yeah. Keep going. Um Yeah, the this this is where where I say, oh, and it gets worse. And then both of you are just like, oh god.

SPEAKER_00

It's it and it does, it gets worse and it gets crazier and crazier, but this is definitely that peak point where it's like, oh. Um so uh Iran broke ties in in March of 1989 with Britain. In June, or excuse me, yeah, in June on the 3rd in 1989, Ayatal Khamini died. A lot of people actually did say that he was getting worse as he was getting older or closer to his death, he was getting more extreme. Okay. So this was a big there is a there is a like a will that he has a a memoir and a just a life synopsis of uh of him. And I'll I'll go ahead and make sure it's linked in the in the notes and whatnot. But it is he he he was very loved, he was very adored. A lot of people say that that he he was another higher power, if you will, not necessarily in the like in the status of the prophet, but just the way that people idealized him. Um so this was a very big sad day for the Muslim community, especially his followers.

Ed

Um well and it it it's a phenomenon that we've seen in the past, right?

SPEAKER_00

Like I'm a comparisond relationship, right? Is that what you would call that?

Ed

No, I I was actually gonna take it more to the extreme of um I've grown up with people who knew Hitler, and the the these were kids, these were like the sons of lieutenants and aides and and stuff like that that surrounded Hitler that were never really heavily implicated because they were in the inner circle of Hitler, but they never were in a position where they could call the shots in terms of the atrocities that were committed. I remember talking to these men and women as little kids, uh, as a little kid, and they're like, Yeah, no, we called him Uncle Adolf. He was really nice, he was playful, he always talked to us. We could go to him for any sort of advice. He was a kind man, he was a generous man, but none of them knew the complete the depths of the depravity of his decision making at a at a global level, and so it's it I I I can kind of see where people are coming from when the Ayatollah died. It's like, hey, like this isn't a bad guy, he really wasn't a bad guy to me and to a whole bunch of other people, and he did a great job leading uh uh but when you dive into it after the fact, it's just like oh, this guy had another life.

SPEAKER_00

He he he was pretty extreme. He after um Iran lost the war, they say that he's never smiled since that day. Yep, but he also um and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe he killed like a bunch of his guys because of the loss a lot, yes, and that's pretty extreme, if you ask me. Yeah. If you think about it, someone who's willing to do that for people who fought for him, like it's it's nothing to put it this patois over it. Someone rushed his head. It's nothing.

Ed

Yes, and and that and I'm not gonna deny for a second that is atrocious behavior, because we've seen it so many times in history with Mussolini and Hitler and Stalin and and and and all that stuff. But it's also like when we really dig into it, when you're looking at the average person who's just trying to bring home dinner for his family, I can can I I really can see why they would adhere to somebody like that, but they were also completely left in the dark in terms of what was really going on, sure, and the atrocities and and all that stuff, which I don't think accurately represents Islam.

SPEAKER_00

No, and you know, that's a that's that's a big part of this, is it Muslims were really split into sides, like a lot of people didn't agree with the they were like, you know, if he apologizes and you know affirms his faith and you know does X, Y, and Z, like we don't need to kill him. Like that's that'll do, you know. But of course, then you have those those guys who were like, nah, it's not gonna slide off with his head.

Ed

Yeah, no, that's true. Cause because you're gonna find extremists on one side, yeah, and then you're gonna find extremists on the other side.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, absolutely, and a lot of people were who who were Muslim and standing up for Salman Rashty believed in freedom of speech, you know. A lot of literary writers, a lot of, you know, big political figures, governmental figures, you know.

Ed

Yeah. Well, he he spent time in America.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean he was in New York, and do you guys want to talk about Kat Stevens?

Ed

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sorry, I've I've been waiting because I know that I talked about it with Ed, and he's like, What?

Ed

No, I I actually love Kat Stevens' early works, and then he kind of like and then it changed. Switched.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm like, Yeah, let's talk about it.

Ed

What are we singing about? Like, this is really confusing.

SPEAKER_00

So Kat Stevens is a musician from the 60s, 70s.

Ed

Um I would oh no, I I would say he was actually around in the 80s.

SPEAKER_00

That's not yeah, I guess that's late 70s when he converted. Not converted, but like so okay, so Kat Stevens actually changed his name and is now Yosef Islam. That is that's what he goes by now. In 1989, he came out um to kind of voice the support for the fatwa in a BBC program. There was a question about giving Salman Rashd shelter after the fatwa and whatnot, and he his response goes, um, and I quote, yes, and I try to phone Ayatal Khamini and tell him exactly where the this man is. And then following that response, he was asked, Would you go to a demonstration where you knew there was an effigy that was going to be burned? And his response to this was I would have hoped that it was the real thing, but actually no, if it's an effigy, I don't think I would have been moved to go there. Yeah.

Ed

Yeah. Yeah. That that's how you're going to win over support in America.

SPEAKER_00

But but then okay, but so in 2020, um, he had an interview, and I know I talked about Salman Rushdie's Desert Island disc, but um Kat Stevens actually has one as well. And in this interview, he states he was cleverly framed, I would say, by certain questions. And I never really actually ever supported the fatwa.

SPEAKER_05

Got it.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So but there's a video that I watched multiple times to make sure I was not stupid. Like I'm pretty sure all those words together mean that you support it, but I don't know.

Ed

I I I I I I guess when you're at that level of publicity, you can just be like, I know there's video evidence of the things that I said, but they didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a deep fake. That didn't happen.

Ed

I can throw a chair out of the top floor of a bar and potentially harm somebody, but that didn't actually happen, and all I need is just a misdemeanor where I can pay the fine and move on.

SPEAKER_00

Sounds very familiar.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just listening.

SPEAKER_00

All right, so yeah, that's that's Kat Stevens um for you. So he doesn't think that he said that, but I don't know. I mean I don't I think he did, but I just watched a video of him saying it. So who what am I? Yeah, it's just yeah.

Ed

He he said it. And and there's a guy that I politically I don't agree with a lot on, but Newt Greenbridge said one time, years and years and years ago, this was like 20 years ago, he got up before Congress and he made a statement, and then the next day he was like, Hey guys, I got some new information and I no longer agree with it. I no longer agree with my original statement. Let's just go off the information and move forward. And I think that's kind of what Kat Stevens did is that initially he was kind of caught up in the fervor, he was caught up in the movement, but then when he realized that, oh, oh, this is kind of taking things a little too far, then he's like, guys, let's just back down.

SPEAKER_00

He's like, actually, I I didn't mean those things, right? He's like, Yeah, I'm a firm believer in you know, the prophet and whatnot. And I uh was very heavily, I would rather it be the real thing um than an effigy, which an effigy is yeah, a fake person.

Ed

Yeah, it's supposed to be the actual person, but you can't afford to get the actual person.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So so yeah, so that was uh I guess a little bit of lightheartedness um before we dive back into the heavy yeah.

Kara

I'm reading ahead and I'm like, let's let's get the show on the road because we've gotta get through this.

SPEAKER_00

It's gonna, yeah, let's get back to the meeting. We gotta get through this. We got this. So July 3rd.

Ed

Can you turn your gain up a little bit more? Thanks, dog. But yeah. I I I can I I I can like honestly edit all this up, but for some odd reason, Carrie, your voice has gotten quieter.

Kara

It got quieter.

Ed

Yeah.

Kara

That's weird.

Ed

And of course, you found the loudest dog in your house to be in the recording room.

Kara

Believe it or not, she's the quietest. And my husband just got home from the store.

SPEAKER_00

So all right, so I'm gonna jump back into it.

Ed

Yes, let's continue.

SPEAKER_00

July 3rd, 1991. Um, the Italian Italian translator Attori Capriolo was severely um injured after being stabbed multiple times in his Milan home. Just ten days after that, on July 13th, 1991. Um Hitoshi Igarashi, the Japanese translator, was stabbed and found dead in his office by his cleaning lady. Um there was a Turkish translator who was also attacked, a Norwegian publisher who was shot, and there were there were two clerics in Saudi Arabia and is it Tunisia Tunisha? Tunisia. Tunisia? Maybe.

Ed

Or Tunisia.

SPEAKER_00

Um Tunisia sounds better. Who were shot and killed for speaking out in favor of Salman Rushdie. So that's a lot. It I I know that the Norwegian translator, oh gosh, what's his name again? It's I'm gonna remember and I'll say it when I do remember.

Ed

Yeah, because you don't have it in my notes.

SPEAKER_00

I don't have it in my notes, and I don't know why. That's so weird. But anyhow, he actually talked about how in an interview he talked about how he would like kind of look over his shoulder and William Nygard. That's his name. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02

Got it. William Nygaard.

SPEAKER_00

He uh he talked, yeah, he talked about just having to look over his shoulder a lot and just feeling very paranoid about the people that are like getting on the you know, getting on the train, and he's like, that person's definitely looking at me right now. Uh that's scary. That is very scary. That is terrifying. So that that's a lot that happened in just a short amount of time. I'm going to break this up again and give some lightheartedness. Um, there was a point where the book made everyone so nervous that Barnes and Noble announced that they would not sell the satanic versus. But then Mr. Stephen King, the man, told Barnes and Noble that you don't sell the satanic versus, you don't sell Stephen, you don't sell Stephen King.

Kara

That's a baller move.

SPEAKER_00

What a guy. Because think about that. Like Stephen King, first of all, is a massive, massive, well-known writer. Famous, famous, famous. He's going to consistently and forever get get any bookstore sales. It's just yeah, and he's an icon.

Ed

Uh yeah, whatever he writes is going to be at the entrance door of every bookstore you go into.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and so and then so for him, this big well-known writer who is bringing in sales to all these book bookstores, and probably could make up for a lot of uh non-sales that they pulled out of maybe for other books, you know. Yeah, lost revenue. Yeah, yeah. Um, and and so that I think that's freaking phenomenal. And sales were outstanding following the release. So there's that. That's freaking cool.

Ed

Well, it and and Stephen King isn't afraid to cross lines.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely not. I mean, read his books, people don't think about that stuff, and people have questioned his sanity because of it, you know.

Ed

Yeah, yeah, he he's he's uh short of his poetry, which I don't think he wrote a lot of, he's a lot like the American modern day Edgar Allan Poe. And he's not afraid to jump into categories in his stories that and be like, I would have never thought to ever write this before in my life, but I can see where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

Ed

So to for him to come out and to be like, hey, if you pull Rushdie's stuff off the shelf, you have to pull all of my stuff off the shelf. All of it, which would have been bookshelves, yeah, of content.

Kara

Well, yeah, look at the the date that he said that. What was that, the late 80s, early 90s? That's that his height, that's the height of his career.

SPEAKER_00

Peak, peak, peak. Yeah. Which I I think that's my Zencaster name is Stan Stephen Kingstan for a reason. Because what a man, you know, that's awesome. And he's already like one of the things that's that's a huge gamble.

Ed

That real that that's a huge gamble because even at the time of the satanic versus was written, yes, Rushdie was, you know, quote unquote famous, but he wasn't Stephen King. Stephen King. Famous. So that takes a lot to say, and I'm pretty sure Stephen King received a lot of death threats as a result.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, he did. He a lot of people were affected by this. As you can see, I mean, there, I think there is like I don't I I read a number, I couldn't find a total number in a lot of places, but the amount of people who lost their lives because of this were just, I mean, I couldn't I didn't want to put in every single incident because it was too much, you know. Going on to something also kind of lighthearted and a little funny, Bono did a tour in the UK for U2. I think it was like Zoo TV tour or something like that. And he was on stage as his character, Mr. McMick, what is it, McFashisto or something? Um McFashisto, and it's a devil.

Ed

Um and so like yeah, like Mephisto, who sold or like the guy who sold his soul to the devil to know everything, and then became the devil himself. I couldn't believe it. Oh god, it's been like 20 some odd years since I've read it.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. Um I'm only 20-something odd years old.

Ed

Uh the answer is 12, folks. Just it's just 12. Mr. 12.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Um but, anyways, he Botto called Rushdie up on stage or like called on him, and he was kind of just like berating him and talking poorly to him. And uh Rushty goes, real devils don't wear horns.

Ed

Yeah. Yep. Making friends again.

SPEAKER_00

We're just on a roll. Yeah. So that that's a little bit of a that's gonna kind of break it up, but we're getting we're getting close. I'm I'm not gonna talk about everything that happened in the 90s because there was a lot that happened, but it's all very much the same thing over and over again. So like the government in Iran would say, Oh, we don't support the fatwa, but we also aren't going to get in the way of it, you know. It's just kind of like the um bounty award was it was like lifted or it was raised and then it was dropped, you know, and it was raised and it was dropped, and then people are saying, We support it, we don't support it, or we don't really we're in the middle, we're not gonna say, you know, so it's it's just back and forth through that. There was a time where Resley Resley Rushdie apologized to Muslims and reaffirmed his faith in Islam. Um, and so this is kind of what a lot of people were saying was gonna help him. And I mean, this is in the 90s, so it didn't. Because there's still, you know, there's still back and forth to this day of if it's if it's lifted or if it's not. Because remember, a fatwa can only be taken back by the person who issued it. So Ayatala Khamini is dead and not going to be able to do that. So we're yep, it's just gonna be there until he dies, basically. And she's still kicking, he's pretty old. Good for him. 30 something years later.

Ed

I think it's something that actually kind of ties into like the crusades where in during the crusades, where if you look at it from the the Muslim perspective, everybody had to declare war on these Christian invaders. And the only way this war could muster enough support, muster enough, you know, common folk to fight this, is to be like, hey, if the guy who's in charge declares this war, but if he dies, the war still continues because they knew that there was going to be further crusades.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Ed

I I I have a funny feeling that is what was kind of like the mindset, and we see this even up until like 9-11 and post-9-11, where it was a jihad, this idea that we have to declare a religious war on our enemies for all costs. Now, understandably, I know a lot of Muslims that do not agree with that, especially the ones that live here in America. Yeah. But it's it's one of those things where it it's a fascinating psychic psychological tactic that was employed to perpetuate it, and it kind of ties back to the crusades.

SPEAKER_00

I I mean I agree. That's a lot of that's fatwa, you know, like it's gonna stay, it's gonna stick. Yeah, you know what I mean, until that person is dead.

Ed

And you're gonna have that one guy, you're gonna have that one guy that's gonna just hone in on that fatwa and take it very seriously. Yeah, it's gonna be his life's work, right?

SPEAKER_00

Right, yeah.

Ed

Somebody's gonna lose an eye for it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I like I said, I kind of want to not go through the 90s. Yes, this was the time when Salman kind of came out of hiding, because remember, he was in hiding for nine years. He was hiding kind of, I mean, he was like having like weed parties, like just chilling with his homies, but he was in hiding, apparently. So yeah.

Ed

Um he was always kind of a chill guy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he oh yeah, he's very I feel like he's kind of like a what's the word? Like a literary hippie, yeah. You know, where he's very like like cool guy, but very uh educated.

Ed

Yeah, he's like cheech and chong rolled up into one joint.

SPEAKER_00

It's like yeah. It's like Cheech and Chong meets uh like Neil deGress Tyson or something. Something who's like extremely well educated.

Ed

I'm sure Neil deGress Tyson would love to be coincided with them.

SPEAKER_00

Oh well, there you go, bud.

Ed

But he's also he he co-hosts a podcast with Chuck Nice, who's definitely a comedian, progressive, like yeah, he's he's not afraid to admit that that he smokes the devil's lettuce.

SPEAKER_00

Sure, sure, sure.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Salman had weed parties, so he was in hiding for nine years. I'm gonna go into um actually more recently, um, this is kind of the tail end of his journey so far, because I'm gonna go to August 2022, and this was the day that Salman Rushdie was attacked. This was the attempted murder of Salman Rushdie. Um, so on August 12th, 2022, Salman Rushdie was scheduled to give a lecture in I don't like pronunciation.

Ed

What is it? It's Shataqua.

SPEAKER_00

It's Sh Chautauqua. Yeah, no, you're right. Shotaqua in China. Chautauqua, New York, yeah. Yep, in uh in New York. A 24-year-old Hadid Matar ran onto stage where Salem and the co-found co-founder of uh City of Asylum, Henry Reese, were both attacked. Henry was uh to interview Salman Rushdie about the US kind of being a safe haven for XL writers. What a coincidence, right? I I think that's ironic. Or on purpose. Or on purpose, you're not wrong. So Henry suffered a shallow knife injury and a deep bruising near his right eye. Um ultimately he is okay. Salman Rushdie had been stabbed 10 times, four times in the stomach, um on his or near his stomach on his abdomen, um, three times on the front right side of his neck, once um to his right eye, and once to the chest, once to the right thigh.

SPEAKER_02

Jeez.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, on stage in front of people in 2022 for a book that he wrote in 1988.

Ed

Like, I I I I don't know if you've ever studied how Malcolm X died.

SPEAKER_00

Sure.

Ed

Uh an another look at me, uh another fascinating figure in American history bit like Malcolm X. Say what you want on either side of his politics, but um, yeah, there was two guys that rushed the stage, and one guy made it up while his wife and daughters were sitting in the very front seats. Two guys ran up, one of them managed to managed to like shoot him point blank in the chest, thus blowing his chest open and blowing up his heart, and then another shot hit his stomach and then just blew his innards everywhere. And his daughters witnessed that even to this day, they they remember what happened, which is foul at the last moment. Yeah, it's just so over the top, and I feel like maybe that was like kind of a repeat here because Malcolm Mex was a huge proprietor, proponent of Islam, African-American freedom and rights, and and all that stuff. I feel like this is what this guy was trying to do was make a statement.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, oh well, I mean, this is uh this is this is a duty to those who follow the fatwa, those who support the fatwa. This is a duty, this is a job, this is something that needs to happen. So yeah, I mean it is definitely a statement, especially in public. I mean, it's easier access, but it's a big move, it's a big risk. He Hadi Mattar was ultimately arrested on like directly at the at the situation.

Ed

Yeah, we're on the spot.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and uh there is so Salman Rush is actually writing a book currently, or no, he's not writing it anymore. It comes out this month.

SPEAKER_02

Oh.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a it's a book called Knife, Meditations After Attempted Murder. And he he states in it um in a reading, then in the corner of my right eye, the last thing my right eye would ever see, I saw the man in black running toward me down the right hand side of the seating area, black clothes, black fack face mask. He was coming in hard and low, a squat missile. Now just think of that. Like that's that's deep. That's that is really scary. That is nightmare inducing. That is scary for something that happened in the 80s, my whole life before me, and Kara's life, you know. It's yeah, that's my lifetime ago, and this is still such a such a horrendous situation that he was ultimately stabbed ten times. He was in the hospital for six weeks. Um, he did lose vision in his eye, and he actually lost um feeling in some of his fingertips.

Ed

Um, as I can he can only type with one hand now, if I remember.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and he's he's got liver damage. I mean, he he certain he survived something. And there was a quote that the um the surgeon made, and he was like, You're either the most unlucky man or the most lucky man. And someone was like, What is so lucky about this? And he was like, It's either um he's like, You're lucky because you made it, and you're also lucky because the man who stabbed you is not good at using a knife, stabbing a man with a knife, you know what I mean? I think that's hilarious. But yeah, I mean the that's sheer that is insane.

Ed

Well, and I and I think it really is a test to Rushdie's character.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, oh I might I mean relentless.

Ed

He's he's the kind of guy that he wrote stories that he knew would offend people. However, he also understood that this isn't my intent. I'm not trying to offend people. I would say because of my my English and writing background, my view of it is that he tried to take writing to another level. And and in case in point, if you ever read, you know, the the satanic verses, if you ever read, yeah, you you you read it in depth, you'll discover that like he will have multiple dialogues between two different people in the same paragraph.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it's so I have read the first five chapters three times.

Ed

Yes, three times, and it and it's just like okay, who's having a conversation?

SPEAKER_00

What's happening?

Ed

Yeah, it's that it's that magical surrealism that he's a master of.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, that's what makes him a good author, I feel, is if I'm not able to follow it, then you're probably executing what your what your goal was.

Ed

Well, and and on top of that, he he kind of did the same thing that Jared Tolkien did. There like if you really dive into Jared Tolkien, if you really dive into like his original works in terms of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, you'll discover that Tolkien isn't following normal conversation punctuation etiquette.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

Ed

And it's one of those things where it's super confusing to understand, but then once you can get past it, like you can elevate your mind past it, you're like, oh, okay, I get it. This is the reason why he's doing it. This is the reason why it's it's written this way. It goes all the way back to medieval and and British Renaissance era writing, where you have these poets, these British poets that are just they're not looking at the laws of poetry, they're just giving it the middle finger and moving on, and just doing what they want, do what they want, and then we have metaphysical conceits, we have the advancements of sonnets, and it would lead its way to Whitman and Thoreau and all that kind of stuff, and Emily Barrett Browning and Percy Shelley and so on and so on. And I feel like Selman Rushdie was the kind of guy that's like, he's just looking around, he's looking at all the other authors, he's looking at Stephen King, he's like, uh, that guy hasn't made a name for himself. But then Rushdie's like, I'm gonna go the other way, I'm gonna do my own thing, and I don't care. And if I piss people off, I'm sorry. It's I'm not attacking them personally, I'm really not. I'm just doing my own thing. And he kind of paid the price for it, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Ed

I kind of want to meet the guy, I kind of want to sit down and have lunch with the guy.

SPEAKER_00

I think it would be super cool to sit down and have a conversation with him. I wouldn't want to in public.

Ed

Um be collateral damage.

SPEAKER_00

Um I'm not trying to go to like a Starbucks and sit down and have like a coffee with him in the middle of North Scottsdale. I'm okay. We can meet in um someone else's backyard who um I have to interview multiple times.

Kara

A zoom call and in your closet.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, like exactly. Um in the middle of nowhere. No one can hear me. I think if he he's also really I like the sound of his voice.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, when you listen, like I was listening to the Desert Island discs and um just listening to him talk, it's he's got a soothing voice. Yeah. And he's got that like British, you know, we've got a British accent, so that's also a plus because it's soothing and it sounds, you know, sophisticated.

Kara

At least for us Morricans.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Stanley Vossel Microcrones here. I will say though, listening to the audible, if you guys are all if anyone's going to listen to the satanic verses, pay close attention to the narrator of the story's accent when he acts like a Texan. Well, I don't know about the new little Muslims of people.

Ed

Oh no, about these guys. Like, guys, it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_00

The other accent is executed phenomenally, not the Texas.

Ed

Admittedly, uh, when I was in junior high, we had a French foreign exchange student who was actually staying in a household. Uh there and her parents were like born and raised Texan. Nice. And so he came into our French class and he tried speaking French with a thick Texan accent. It was glorious. It was the funniest thing I've ever heard. And I applaud this 12-year-old, 12, 13-year-old for like you, you you got an A for effort for speaking French in a Texan accent.

SPEAKER_00

Brad Pitt and then Glorious Bastards and Oh yeah.

Ed

Galarmo.

SPEAKER_00

What's her name? Goro.

Ed

Galarmo. Mean Girmo? Galarmo. C, see, Galarmo.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. I love it so much. So so yeah, going back to Mr. Rushdie and his um no feeling in his fingertips. He survived. He is alive and very great. Um, he still is writing. Uh like I said, he's writing knife. And that will come out again this month. I am going to definitely read that. I think that that is going to be my favorite book of his because it's more real. And yeah.

Ed

I I totally understand.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Ed

You're you're not gonna read that book and wondering why you're falling out of a plane.

SPEAKER_00

And turning into a go.

Ed

Yeah, yeah, turning into something else in a wheelchair because you're in the hospital, because you're on a movie set, because you're hooking up with some other famous person's wife in her apartment, and you're influencing Islamic history a thousand years ago, all at the same time.

SPEAKER_00

Literally.

Kara

Yeah, I'd prefer the biography too.

SPEAKER_00

I think I'm gonna read that one for sure. I think I'll I won't have to read the first five chapters three times. Right. Um, but yeah, he makes I mean he still speaks publicly. He actually uh I saw a couple really funny little little moments that he had um more recently, but he was approached for a cameo in Telediganite. In Telediganites, they thought that it would be really funny to have three of the drivers be three people who you would never expect to be in a race car. Um god, I I need to rewatch that. It's I don't think he's in it. I don't think I didn't see that he was actually in it, but he was approached with the idea that was their that was their thought behind it, but I don't think it actually happened. I didn't see I didn't see Salman Rushdie. I love that movie.

Kara

I don't think he's in it, but that's a wonderful idea.

SPEAKER_00

It's a great idea. They should have done it. Um and he actually did, I don't know if you guys I don't really care for Larry David personally, not my favorite person. Um, but he did some work with Larry David, and he was featured on Larry David's what's it called? Curb Your Enthusiasm. Yep, Curb Your Enthusiasm. They did a few episodes. Ultimately, they were two men who have a fatwa because Larry David has a fatwa over his head as well. Got it. Um he was invited onto the Jimmy Kimmel show and he did some stuff that was that was against Ayatala. And so yeah, they're they're there's his fatwa right right there. He's now also an enemy of the Muslim world.

Ed

I think he's what he's done is he's positioned himself to the point where now new Muslim progressives are coming up. And they're like, why are we really upset with this guy? Do we have to be upset with this guy? And so, like, we have a new sense of leadership coming up where they're like, we've got other things to be frustrated about than a guy who wrote a book before I was even born. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why we've seen less death threats and and all that kind of stuff. I I think we're kind of seeing that politically in America now, we've got a lot more younger people coming up who are looking at the nearly 200 years of presidential or political professional life experience presidents, and people are like, are these really our best options? Is there there's no one else out there that represents the average American? And and I feel like we're starting to see a shift, much like America saw in the early 1960s, where they elected like what a 45-year-old presidential candidate, as in like JFK. Right. Like, I feel like we're starting to encroach upon another cycle in American history, and this is something that my grandfather taught me before he died. Is that you will see this cycle multiple times where you will see people holding on to their holy political vows, whether it's left or right, doesn't matter, who cares? But they're gonna hold on, hold on, hold on, and then we're gonna start seeing a shift into younger folks, and then they will exit, and then it's old, old, old, old, old, younger, old, old, old, old, old, and then younger.

SPEAKER_00

And repeats itself.

Ed

Yeah, yeah. It's just a cycle that just repeats itself. It's something that America has done since uh the revolutionary war for everything, and I I kind of wonder, uh, and I wish I could sit down to Rushdie and kind of like pick his brain in terms of like, is this what you see is happening? Because I feel like he's the kind of guy that has been around, seen things, experienced things. He's the kind of guy that could be like, yeah, yeah, I I I I can totally see where this is going. But knowing Rushdie in his age, knowing a lot of people that I grew up with in a retirement community, they have all said the same thing. You're going to be okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Ed

If you try, you care, you work, you put forth effort, you're going to be okay. And I feel like Rushdie is one of those guys that would say that about any guy today who is really anxious about the near future, and he can look you straight with one eye and tell you that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, nice little segue back into Larry David, but the whole thing was about Larry David having a fatwa over his head and Salmon Rushdie helping him get through that and how to live with it and how to survive with a death sentence over your head. They have a sc they have Fatwa the musical. Which is really funny. That's really funny.

Ed

Guys, if ladies, if I ever end up with the jihad or a fatwa against me, ditch me and do something else. I totally understand.

Kara

Or we could do a musical. I was just gonna say, or we could just do a musical about it.

Ed

Yeah, after I'm dead, you'll do the musical.

Kara

No, we'll just ship you off to California so you can hang out with Larry David and as opposed to like heil myself.

Ed

I'm assuming you guys haven't seen the producers.

Kara

It's been a while since I've seen it, but you talk about it a lot, so I knew what you were talking about.

Ed

Yes, we caught all of that carrot.

Kara

Oh, sorry.

Ed

In all your your quietness. I'm gonna get you I'm gonna get you a cloud lifter, Kara.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I need it.

Ed

I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna get you the uh oh crap, what is it that I have? It's the it's called a dynamite stick. I don't know where it sits in my uh my corded loop, but all you have to do is just turn your gain up to like 20% and we will all hear you loud and clear with a out a whole bunch of background static.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

Ed

She's like sure. Uh I'm just gonna record the next episode, so you do you. Speaking of next episodes, Kara, do you have anything lined up?

Kara

Yeah. Um, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_00

Uh loud and clear.

Kara

Okay.

Ed

Yes. Um I will I will boost this in post.

Kara

I was originally going to do the fourth crusade, but I'm gonna put that on the back burner.

SPEAKER_00

You changed it? I changed it.

Kara

Wait, what? I changed it.

SPEAKER_00

What are you doing now? Now it's a surprise.

Kara

I I kinda want to not tell you what it is.

SPEAKER_00

I love that idea. Let's do that.

Kara

Okay. So you're just gonna have to wait and see. I even in my search bars when I was looking it up earlier, I put it in my own Google and not the dumpster fire Google, so you can't see it. Nice. You're welcome. That's kind of fun. Ed's gonna hate it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I yeah, I know, right? He seems like, what is I talking about?

Ed

I don't know that. I know. I'm like, what is this?

SPEAKER_00

What am I good with surprises? I have to know.

Kara

Um uh let's just say it is something that I could quickly do the research on, and then we can record this soon.

SPEAKER_00

Let's do it. All right, I can't wait. I like surprises sometimes.

Kara

It'll be funny. It's a cloud, it's a palette cleanser, and I think it's more of a palette cleanser than the crusade would be.

SPEAKER_00

Good. I really want to talk about Jack the Ripper next, but I think I'm gonna push that a few moments. That's give me something else to be kinda happy about.

Kara

Maybe uh something with less knives.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I think that's really good.

Ed

Um, not to mention too, like there's a podcast that we follow that did like a five-part series on it.

SPEAKER_00

You have to make it perfect if you're doing Jack Jack the Rio. Yeah, but there's a lot of cool things that I really like. That's not even necessarily what I feel is so uh mainstream knowledge about it.

Kara

Yeah, and there's a lot of perspectives you could take on it too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I just think yeah, I think that without even going into all the like really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really bad stuff, um not focusing on that all entirely. There's a lot of other theories, a lot of other really cool things, but I can't do that right now.

Ed

The guy with the knife did it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

unknown

Exactly.

Ed

That's it. I know I know I know something that I've been kind of wanting to dive into is the exploration of the north and south poles. Because it it it seems like people were like, hey, in the 1800s, they're like, give me a ship, give me some warm clothes, and I will find the north and south pole.

Kara

Nice, yeah.

Ed

And nothing, absolutely nothing, goes right. It is as soon as they hop off the boat, everybody dies.

SPEAKER_00

And I can't wait to hear it. Yeah, that's a good time. It's gonna be it's gonna be good.

Ed

Yeah, uh, yeah, uh the only problem is that it's probably gonna be a a like two-parter because we've got to cover the North Pole, and then we've got to cover the South Pole. Okay, because both of them have completely different story settings, like people getting trampled by penguins in one part, and and then another guy loses all of his skin because he ate nothing but rabbits and got vitamin A poisoning. Yay! Um, you have another guy that got so far lost he fell, he landed in the Atlantic Ocean, but drowned in the Pacific Ocean.

SPEAKER_00

Tight.

Ed

Yeah, there's just so much, like guys. Compasses don't work here. Like this isn't this isn't how it works. So cool.

Kara

That'll be fun. I guess that's a pipeline.

SPEAKER_00

Kara's palette cleanser. I think I need it after doing this research and listening to all the stuff.

Kara

It'll be good, I promise. It'll be good. I'm excited for it. In fact, once we hang up, I'm going to start typing up my word doc because I'm excited for it.

Ed

Kara, does it have to do with a large army accidentally or not intentionally sacking the wrong city?

Kara

No, that's the crusade, friend.

Ed

Oh, that's what you were talking about earlier?

Kara

That's the crusade that I'm gonna put on the back burner.

Ed

Oh. Love that.

Kara

Um, this is different, and yeah, I'm I'm gonna keep it a surprise for your sake.

Ed

So I can't do any research on it and just completely derail the whole conversation?

Kara

Well, that's not the reason, and I will tell you, once you find out what it is, you'll already know a lot about it, which is why I'm not telling you.

Ed

Got it.

Kara

Yep.

Ed

Cool. So it's a 2020 elections. Nailed it.

Kara

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00

Yikes. On that note.

Kara

On that note.

SPEAKER_00

Would you like to do some housekeeping, Kara?

Kara

Yes, housekeeping. Housekeeping. Our website is officially up. You can find us at www.thetaysdumpsterfire.com. You can reach us there, contact us if you have any trash can fires. You can also email us at thedaysdumpsterfire at gmail.com. Uh, if you want to get a hold of us on Instagram, we are also on Instagram. Deja has been doing a fabulous job keeping up with that for us. Much better than I was doing. And that's all I got. I broke head.

Ed

So Deja, how's our how's our last episode doing on Instagram? She put it up.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah. I was gonna text you after I posted. I was like, thanks for the reminder. She put it up.

Ed

Well, I I reminded you shortly before you left our room. So I did my job.

SPEAKER_00

That was three and a half hours before I needed to post it. That's great.

Kara

It's up, it's fine. And if it makes you feel any better, it's there. I am just now updating the website for the new for the new episode. So it's fine. We're fine. Everything's fine. But yeah.

Ed

And I'm I'm taking a Google-led seminar on how to get our podcast posted on to YouTube podcasts. Got it. Cool. Because I I I I got the link, I got everything connected, but nothing is posting. But in the next oh, I think it's today. Actually, I think it was an hour ago. Oh well, I'm going to try to find that video on how to get up onto uh uh YouTube podcasts. So champions. If you're hearing champions. Yes, if you if you're hearing us from YouTube podcasts, I have figured it out. Not we're on everything else.

Kara

Yep, we're on everything else. It's totally fine. Um, again, you can find our links on the website, you can chat with us there, you can chat with us on Instagram or email us. I don't care. So we will talk with you in our next surprise episode.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thanks for joining, guys. Hopefully that didn't bum you out too much.

Kara

Hey, I got both.

SPEAKER_00

Don't write novels about the Prophet Muhammad in the worst way you could possibly do it.

Kara

Yes, please don't do that.

Ed

Yes, and I can see out of both eyes, so I'm taking with that and and running.

Kara

You can't see out of my eyes. I have glasses, so I catch you all later. All right, bye.