Ed

Hey everybody, this is Ed.

SPEAKER_01

And this is Kara.

Ed

And this is your day's dumpster fire.

SPEAKER_01

Where we don't celebrate humanities. Oh. I even did it without the script. I was trying. I really did try.

Ed

Problem is we're still recording.

SPEAKER_01

I know. I know. I don't care.

Ed

Uh yeah, well, I mean, it's I I I guess it's fitting. Today's episode, and I'm and I'm and I'm hesitant to even call it an episode. Just because it is so backwards to what we normally do. Right? The motto is is we don't celebrate humanity's successes, but its most fantastic failures. Uh here we're talking about someone that that one that succeeded hardcore. Like somebody um who has done incredibly impressive things given the conditions that she started off with as a kid. And and I know you and I have been talking about this in previous episodes. Um, we brought in a Holocaust survivor.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we had the opportunity to bring in a Holocaust survivor into our classroom and talk with our middle school students. It was a really cool experience, and we had a lot of help from the Arizona Historical Jewish Society, which was great. We were able to bring the kids there, and then our uh speaker came to school to visit us, so it was really cool.

Ed

Yeah, and uh we were originally planning this like months ago, but our our speaker is uh 90 plus years young and um not not easily uh I'm I'm she's probably gonna stop running Boston marathons this year, I would I would assume. She looks great. Yeah, for yeah, she's she is she is feisty, she has got a ton of energy, and it is it was an amazing experience to to say the least. I've been blessed in my life to have grown up in a retirement community where I've I I've gotten to speak to a lot of people from previous generations, and this one hits just as hard, if not harder, um compared to what but like there's there's a trend. There's always a trend in and and there's always a message when you talk to somebody who is in their 90s, they they will always tell you what their greatest accomplishment is, or like what are they the most proud of. And you'll see at the end of this, like at the very very very end of it, uh, she delivers a message. Charlotte delivers a message of like what her greatest accomplishment is and what we need to do just to be decent human beings. So, yes, it's this is a very very very different episode. Uh I I didn't normally we kind of play around and we we tend to you know make light of Custer's last stand or you know a molasses flood or something like that. But this is this is a very, very, very real story that you're gonna hear. And these are very, very real students asking questions. And I I do have to apologize. I uh when I set this up in our classroom, uh I had like an electrical issue with my laptop and my my interface and and all that stuff, and so yeah, there's there's times in the beginning where you're gonna hear like a click, click, click, click, click, click, click, or like a very slight buzzing sound that gets better as it progresses. It's not through the whole entire recording, and then we also ran into an issue where um Charlotte's daughter Rose is giving some background information, and we had an issue with like one mic not picking her up, but it picked up on the other mic. So the first five-six minutes are gonna be kind of kind of goofy, but after that it it cleans up nicely, and uh so yeah, I say um let's uh let's get it going.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we hope you guys enjoy it.

Ed

Hey everybody. So we have a very, very special guest here. Uh we are actually in Caravan Mine's classroom. We have our middle schoolers here, and uh we have a uh a rather um unique experience going on. Uh we have somebody who has gone through one of the worst tragedies in human history, and Miss Charlotte here is going to tell her story. And we're recording this, it's going to be ad-free. Uh we're don't I don't want this monetized in any way. We are also recording this for the Arizona Jewish Historical Society. Uh, we want to archive this as much as possible. So, so yeah, here we are. Uh, we have a podcast about failures, but we we don't focus enough on successes. And we have somebody who has stood up to um some of the uh the worst things in in human history and overcome it. So I'm gonna mute myself here so I don't go on blabbing. Um, but Miss Sorlett. Hi, hi.

SPEAKER_11

Hi. Um I'm gonna introduce you, Mom. Yes, okay. Um, I'm Roz, her daughter. My mom was born on March 26, 1930.

unknown

She grew up in a Jewish household in her mother of her own father, mother sother, motherfucker, and her brother Matt.

SPEAKER_11

Her early years were marked by a picturesque childhood filled with love and happiness. Everything changed when Charlotte was just 10 years old, much like years out. The Nazi invasion of France and occupation of Paris brought terror and upheaval, upheaval in her life. For the next four years, Charlotte lived in constant danger, playing her safety on six separate occasions. During this time, the Nazis were systematically wrapped in the deportation to concentration camps in Eastern Europe. Tragically, her mother rose was amongst those supported and perish in offering a notorious concentration camp in Poland. By the end of the war, Charlotte had been separated from her family for nearly five years. She was reunited with her father shortly after the war ended, and following two years of tirelessly searching through the Red Cross facilities, she finally reunited with her brother Max. After the war, Charlotte returned to Paris and lived there till 1957, where she immigrated to Montreal, Canada. She met the love of her life, Alex, and they shared 50 years of marriage until Alex passed in 2011. They raised two wonderful children and became half-grandparents of two grandsons. Charlotte's story stands as a powerful customer for resilience and remembrance. Among the 76,400 who heard in the Holocaust, her mother rose in honor of the Holocaust Museum in Paris, built in 2005 to memorial life those two were lost. And now we're going to introduce Charlie.

SPEAKER_05

Hi, I'm Charlotte Tableman and I'm gonna tell you part of my story of how I survived for years of of and this uh has been uh always in hiding. This is this is uh when I started uh first first grade and I was a happy girl. Happy I had a happy life, and I had a mother, mother, a mother and a father, and uh a brother who was six years younger than me.

SPEAKER_07

Like I said, when the clicker really fails.

SPEAKER_05

This is a building before the world a very modern building in Alice, and it was such a building that nobody in Alice. I mean not too many people had all the accommodation that we had we had uh a terrace for the kids to play, and the wanders uh and even able to put a tick one to call one of the channels it was the most modern building. And I had so many friends and played on the terrace with the kids, but unfortunately in 19 for the for the one for the one when the German came in, all that changed because when they came, they said that uh all the Jews had to resist and had to have uh uh a Jewish star. A Jewish star, even the kids. And when we work on the street, when we saw Germans, the Jews had to work with the cars are running, and when it was lined for food, we always had to be at the end of the line, and when we drive on the subway or a bus, always at the end, we were really treated the the worst they could. But at one point at one point they came and uh took the the older men, the Jewish men, they came and tried to get them away to deportation. But when they came to my apartment, at first I I when I was at the window, I was always at the window. I said to my father, I see uh some people going on trucks with suitcases. So my father said, Oh, don't worry, I think the world, nothing's gonna happen to me, not knowing what was going on. So he went downstairs and we had uh it was such a big judge, and we had a janitor, and I had the janitor, and the janitor was the gendarme and uh the the the Nazi soldiers soldiers and when they asked for his paper, his paper was marked with Jewish red and Jewish, they said, Oh, he's good. When my father heard he's good, my father said, Wait a minute, he ran back to the apartment, took a couple things, and my mother said, What happened? Don't ask. And he went to the third floor to Madame Roland, a nice neighbor of hers, and he went to hide there. The gendarme came back to the apartment and they said, Where is your husband? So she said, I don't know. So uh that was it. At night, Madame Roland came to the apartment and she said, Give me a suitcase and clothing for your husband. I'm gonna put him in a hiding place. So my father went to hiding place. A year after, a gendarme knew my mom. My mom was known in the neighborhood because Rose, her name was Rose, she was good with everybody. She was selling hello to everybody. And the gendarme came and he said, Tomorrow morning they come and pick up the kids and uh and the women. So if you have a place to hide, go to hide. So we didn't know where to go. So we had a uh a church across the street. So we asked the church if they can hide us. So they hide us a little bit, but they couldn't too long. Then we went to a nursing home down the street and we asked if we can stay. So they said, Well, just a little bit. So then my mother got in contact with my father and she said, We cannot hide anymore. What are we gonna do? He said, Wait, I met a man, and the man said, if I give him money, he's gonna put the kids in an orphanage and he's gonna pass us to another town. So my my mother said, Okay, so they put us in an orphanage. The orphanage was near uh Rue Lamarque, near the Sacri Cœur in Paris. And my parents when they came to say goodbye to us, but my brother had scarlet fever, so he was in a hospital, and I was alone in the orphanage. And when I was in the orphanage, the my parents came and said goodbye. But instead, the men took the money, and instead to give to give him a pass to go somewhere else, he gave them up to the German. The German came and picked them up to go to the camp. So when my mother went on the truck, if in fact the woman was uh hiding under the tablecloth in the dining room, and the the German pulled them by the air and tried to get them on the truck. And when my mother went on the truck, my father was behind the truck and it was a little street there. So my father said to my mom, Come, because I'm not jumping at that truck. So she said, No, if I go with you, they're gonna kill me and I'm not gonna see my kids. So she went. Unfortunately, she went to Drancy, to Aderkamp, Auschwitz, and she was killed. My father escaped, and on account of my father, I'm here because he did a lot of ways for me to be put. First, I was with uh a neighbor in uh in uh in my in an own apartment and Madame Elazar, and she kept me for a little while. And then my father contacted Madame Elazar and she said, I don't know how long I can keep her. So my father said, I'm gonna make an arrangement for her. So he made arrangements. He was working in the east of France, that's uh called the Ardennes, because they promised him if he worked for the German and the East of France, is a wife not gonna be deported. Little he knows the wife was deported long time ago, but he did the best he could not knowing what happened. And when I uh so he called Madame Lazare and he said, I'm gonna send somebody to get Charlotte to come close to me. So I went uh I went with uh uh Mr. Catreville, he came to pick me up, and I went to the Ardennes. And the Ardennes they own a post office and a little farm. So I went to their home, and my father joined me to say hello. I was so happy to see my father, and my father said, You're gonna stay with those people, and I'm gonna work here, and I'm gonna see you time to time. I say, Good. So we I stay in that uh uh uh uh apartment, I mean uh home. And one day there was a very big German there that conducted the whole uh town, and it was very severe. So one and luckily, Madame Catreville was at the post office working the lines, and she heard that they're coming to pick up all the Jews are working for the German. So she ran to my father and she said, Take your daughter and run to the woods at the end of the woods. It's a woman who's gonna take Charlotte, and you run to attack them with the underworld underground. So I ran to the woods with my father. My father dropped me at the woman's house and then he ran away. But and the German was running with the with the with the dogs. In fact, I'm so afraid of dogs today, on account of that. So when the woman saw me at the door, she said, Oh my god, and the whole village knew each other. It was like cousins to each other. He said, Oh no. She said, You're gonna go back to the quatre ville. I cannot. Can you hear me good? You're gonna go back to the quatre ville. So she put me in a wheelbarrow, cover me, and get me back to the Catreville. So the Catreville said, What are we gonna do here with her? So she said, I don't care, I'm out. So she left and the quatreville went right away to call a couple people to help them. To it was a home next to them. It was no home, just a cellar. So he called a couple people to crawl from his home to the from his cellar to the other cellar, and it was dark black, no windows, no light. So they put me on a mattress and that in that uh cellar with a carousel lamp, a mattress and a bucket to make, and that was it. But luckily the daughter was very nice. She knew when I was living with them that I I love little pies, so she was always making me a sherry pie or a kind of pie to please me. And she was always treating me so nicely, taking my bucket every day. And I would say, Don't take it every day. She said, Oh no, it has to be taken every day. And she was there all the time with me. And there in France at that time, we didn't change every day, we changed once a week. So she would give me my clothing once a week, clean clothing. And then one day I couldn't stand anymore. I I was so frustrated. I got up and I said to them, let me stay one night to sleep with you, to be with you guys. So they say, Okay, only one night. Unfortunately, just that night, the German knocked at the door and came because she had a uh a boyfriend that was on a furlough and he wasn't uh supposed to stay, he was supposed to be back to the army. So they was really looking for him, but not knowing for whom they was looking, he took me in his arm and we were going to jump in the garden in the back of the home. When and he was and I was in his arm, but I was luckily very little. And when they say Robert, so uh he threw me back on the floor in the home and he jumped to go with them. But when the Germans saw that he dropped something, they didn't know what he dropped, so they came on the front door to look what he dropped. So I slid and on under the single bed, and I got close to the wall, and I put my little hand because they was coming with their bayonet, and there was away like that from me with their bayonet. So I put my little hand in my mat not to scream. When they left Mr. Catreville pulled me from under the bed. He said, Oh, she's white like a sheet. So I said, What are you gonna do with me? So they said, We're gonna put you back in the cellar and never come back. So he gave me a sh uh shot of cognac to put me back to myself and put me back to the cellar. And I stayed there until the end of the war. But what what I was doing in that cellar, I didn't know what to do. So I was uh grandmother gave me some stockings to knit for the family. And I was making up stories. I have a home, a husband, I have children, I have a girl, I have a boy, and I take them to school, I take him to the doctor. I was making up stories to keep me alive. And finally in 1944, they came down and they said, Charlotte, come up, the war is finished. And when I came out, the whole village was so dramatic and they couldn't believe that I was alive. They couldn't believe that they hit me. And they made a little party for the quatrevilles for doing what they did. And then I waited for my father to, after the word, to come back. And my father came back to the Quatreville. And he said, Where is Charlotte? And they find me. But now he said, I'm gonna go back home to see what happened. I said, no, no, Papa, take me home with you. He said, first I have to see what happened. I said, I go with you and you're gonna see with me what happened. So he took me to Paris. And unfortunately it was people who took our apartment. So he told him to get out, it's his apartment. And then we went back to the apartment and we had to refinage because he took away everything. And I stayed in the apartment with my father. And then we were looking for my brother, and we find my brother two years after the war with the Red Cross. And when my brother came, unfortunately, my father was with people who told the kids to eat under the table. So when he came home, he he slid under the table, he said, throw me whatever you want. So my father said, The war is finished. You come up to the table. He said, No, if I come up, they're gonna slap me. So my father has to take uh a special doctor to put back him to normal pla to a normal place, and he sent him to special school. And believe it or not, my brother became an a dentist. And he had a nice life and he stayed in Paris and he married and he married a girl who had a uh uh a little girl, he adopted her. Her name was Cecile. And uh I correspond with my brother, and uh everything was okay from this point on.

SPEAKER_11

Um how long were you in the cellar?

SPEAKER_05

I was uh I was nine nine nine months in the cellar, and that that cellar was uh uh was okay, but uh I I was trying to make up stories, not to get crazy, and it left me a very bad taste. In fact, uh up to today I I'm back to the cellar. I always dream of what I always dream what the German did to us. I mean, it's always in my heart, it's always with me. I get up with it, I go to bed with it, and that's my life, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_11

Was there wasn't there a church across the street?

SPEAKER_05

Oh yeah, it was a church across the street, and we went to hiding with that church, and the church was so nice to my mom, and they was they hiding us, and they did everything they could to help us, but unfortunately they uh they couldn't do too much. In fact, after the war that church disappeared this is before the war, let me just change that. Okay, can you hear me? Yeah, okay. This is before the war a month a month before with my mom, me and my little brother.

SPEAKER_11

This is a month before your mom was taken.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, a month before my mother was taken away. This is uh uh Betty uh my girlfriend, Madame Elazar, who took me in, and I was so dirty from that Romanian woman. My legs were dark and my arm dark. So she was so proud to clean me up. So she took a picture with my friend Betty. This is my father when he was a soldier, and that uh picture is very important. My father kept that picture to show my brother who he was because my when he found my brother he didn't recognize him, he recognized him only with a picture. This is when he went for the underground to go against the German. And this uh my my father after the war, he remarried, and I was very upset not to see my mom. So it was uh a group of Jewish kids that the Jewish people organized that lost a father, a mother, or boat to rehabilitate us to go live with our stepmother, stepfather. And I'm in the middle in red, and I could never rehabilitate. I was very miserable not to have my mom. And this is my brother when he became a dentist in the circle. He graduated as a dentist from a beggar, and this is the kids from Madame Lazar, daughter and son. We when they came to visit to take, we took a picture. And this is a family who my uh the fragman in Canada. Uh when uh after the war, I didn't want to stay in France anymore because I didn't have my mom. So my father said, Where do you want to go? I said, I want to go to the state, but I didn't have the papers. So we had good friends in Canada, Montreal, and he went with me there and he said, Would you take Charlotte for a little while? Because she wants she doesn't want to stay in Paris. So the mother and father had five kids and uh five kids, and they say, Oh, sure, she can stay with us. So I stay, instead of stay one year, I stayed three years. So my father, after three years, said, you know what, it's a bad time to come home. So when he talked to Madame Fragman, she was the best friend of my mom. So she said, Oh, you know what, she doesn't want to go yet back to Paris. So why don't you go to the Laurentian, the place where they meet men? So my father said, Okay. So I went to the Laurentian with my father, and I sat for lunch at the table. And my husband to be came to the table and he said, What are you doing here? So my father said, Well, I'm taking back my daughter to Paris because I want to find somebody nice, and she didn't find so I'm taking her back to Paris. So he put his hand on my hand. Her name was Alex. He put his hand on my hand, he said, She is mine. So my father said, Oh, that's good. So my father went back to Paris and he sent me back to the fragment. And my husband sent me uh a letter that he wants to marry me, he wants to meet his uh family. So he sent me a ticket for the flight and a hotel to stay. And I met the family, and right there and there, I went to the living room, and the whole family was in the kitchen because he knew what was going to happen. So he put a ring on me and he said, Ask General de Gaulle if I can marry you. I said, Don't ask General de Gaulle, ask me. And that was it. I married him and I was married 50 years with him, and he was a man of gold. I couldn't say anything wrong or do anything wrong. And that was the family with me. Then I went back to Paris. My mother is memorized in a museum in Paris, and luckily she was at the right side because it's name on top of the wall, and she was at the right side, and I was just happy to see her at the right side of me. Uh, that I could Risela Rosenstraig. She was born in 1910, and she was in her 30s when she was taking away. And I go to that museum in Paris whenever I can go to Paris. That's the orphanage. Oh, that's the orphanage where I was uh taking in the orphanage, and it has a plate there.

SPEAKER_11

I'll go back. Yeah. Go back to the orphanage.

SPEAKER_05

Oh yeah. That's the orphanage where it's a plate where 79 kids was taking away. And luckily, a Romanian woman took me to adopt me. So I wasn't taking him abroad. I had scarlet fever, so we were lucky because all the 79 kids got killed. And that's the museum where I met Alan, the little boy that nearly uh was killed from the German because he was going to say Lolot, and the grandmother put a bar of soap in his mouth. And from that time on, he never forgot that. So he wanted to meet me because he felt so bad with that bar of soap. So here I am with him in Paris. We meet each other.

SPEAKER_11

He was part of the family that protected my mom where she was living in the cellar. Um, he was the little boy, Jeanette's brother.

SPEAKER_05

And that's Jeanette. Luckily, my daughter in 2018 took me back to the village to see Jeanette who was dying. Jeanette was the girl who was helping me, taking my waste and give me food. And she loved or loved me and treat me so good. So I'm so happy I saw her. She died a year after I saw her. And this is the uh certificate of Yavshem recognizing the quatre villes in Israel for what they did for me. And this my daughter made a Eiffel Tower, a cake for my 80th birthday.

unknown

Did you make that?

SPEAKER_05

And this is uh uh the sign at the they took away the 79 kids at the orphanage. Luckily, my brother and I wasn't among them, they was killed. And this when I went back to the village where I was hiding, I went back and the villagers came to meet me. They were so happy to see me again. And that church there, nobody lives in that village because the church that was across the Catreville is full with bullets. They kill people every night. So nobody wants to live there anymore, except people that didn't live there any before.

SPEAKER_11

The Catrevilles risk their lives to protect my mom, and if they were caught, they would be killed across the street. I think that's it.

SPEAKER_05

That's it?

SPEAKER_11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. I think we'll open it up for some for some question. Um ready for questions. Let me turn you around. I think we've got a lot of and you take the question of us.

Ed

Got a lot of a lot of kids here with questions.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

Ed

Um, I'm I'm I'm not muted. I checks. I did switch up the microphones earlier, but that's will we be going up to the micastic question? Oh, you can if you want to.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'd rather you want. Yeah.

Ed

Did you call it okay? All right, Nathaniel, you're first.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_11

He's gonna talk the question. Okay. Um he's gonna ask it and I'll repeat it.

Ed

Yeah. So she can hear your question if I turn the game down so you can speak louder thanks for stop.

SPEAKER_14

Thank you for sharing your uh sharing your story on behalf of all of us.

SPEAKER_05

He said thank you for sharing your story. Oh, you're more than welcome.

SPEAKER_14

Um, my question my question is did you meet with any meet with any former German soldiers after the war?

SPEAKER_11

Did you ever meet with any German soldiers after the war? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_14

Um do you think and do you think something like the Holocaust could ever happen again? Do you think the Holocaust could ever happen again?

SPEAKER_05

You never know, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_11

Um, and what can we do to prevent and what can we do to prevent that? What can we do to prevent something like that from happening?

SPEAKER_05

Locally, we live in a nice country. This is the best country. That's why I I I came here, because the other countries are more likely to have war. But uh America so far is the best country, and you have to love it because I love it with all my heart.

SPEAKER_14

Thank you for answering. Thank you for answering my questions.

SPEAKER_11

What did you eat and drink while in hiding? What did you eat and drink while you were in hiding?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I I drank uh she believe it or not, she gave me some uh uh soda. I have some soda and uh but mostly water, mostly water.

SPEAKER_11

What did you eat?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I ate very good. She made me breakfast and she made me lunch and dinner. That's how I know because there was no light, no light. I had a carousel lamp and a mattress, no window. So I didn't know when it was morning, lunch, uh morning, lunch, and dinner, only by the meals. And I even say, you know, you can jump meals if you want. She said, No, you're gonna have your meal, you're gonna have your pie, you're gonna have everything what you need. And she gave me my change of clothing. And France, at that time, we didn't change once a week, not every day. So, but she treated me like gold. And I'm happy to win. I went to see her a couple years after. I'm so happy because she really was great.

SPEAKER_11

Also, when you were with the Romanian woman that was keeping you, that was going to sell you to the Germans, what did you eat with her?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, with her, it was just an apple and a piece of bread for the day. Luckily, I went down to the janitor and the janitor was giving me cookies. But the janitor found out that she was going to sell me to the German because I'm going to tell you why. I luckily I know Yiddish. Yiddish is a slang of German. If I didn't know Yiddish, I wouldn't understand. She, the woman, Romanian woman, was selling me to the German. I went downstairs to the janitor and she said, Do you know somebody that can come and pick you up? I said, Yes. I give two addresses. But one was non-Jewish and she was afraid. And then Madame Elazar, a friend of us, she came and she said to the Romanian woman, Oh, I just want to take Charlotte for a little walk and I bring her back. That was it. I went with Madame Elazar, and she was horrified the way I was. I was smelling full with lice and dark arm, dark legs, and she cleaned me up, and a couple days she took a picture because she was so proud to clean me up.

SPEAKER_03

How did you like clean yourself while you're hiding during the Holocaust?

SPEAKER_11

How did you clean yourself?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, uh Jeanette came and she helped me to sponge myself.

SPEAKER_11

Like a sponge bat.

SPEAKER_05

SpongeBat.

SPEAKER_11

How did she remove the lice? How did you remove the lice when you got to mad? How did she remember?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, Madame Elazar removed the lice locally because I was no lice in the cellar. Madame Elazar every day, she didn't do it once a week. Every day, wash my hair and comb on my lice. And when I went out from Madame Elazar to the Quatreville, I was clean of lice.

SPEAKER_03

All right, so my name is Joseph, and um I'm also Jewish, and my dad was born in Montreal, and my great-grandma Eda is also a Holocaust survival. And um, so my questions are one when did you learn English? When did you learn English?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, when I came to the country, I didn't know one word of English. I tried to uh read the paper and listen to the TV, and I learned my English on my own. In fact, I needed a job, so I was very poor in English. But I say, if you when I went and got a job, I say my English is poor, but my numbers are good because I was good in accounting. And at that time they they took me in and gave me a chance. Today I might not have a chance, but at that time they took they took me in and gave me a chance. And I work for DAL Corporation and I work for American Express.

SPEAKER_03

And my other question is where did you live after Montreal? Where did you live after Montreal?

SPEAKER_05

Uh after Montreal, I went to Philadelphia. Uh Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_11

That's where your husband.

SPEAKER_05

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

And you still live there today?

SPEAKER_11

Do you still live in Philadelphia today?

SPEAKER_05

Who?

SPEAKER_11

You.

SPEAKER_05

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_11

I live here in Arizona. And did you move straight from Philadelphia to Phoenix? Yeah, you you how long were you in you were in Philadelphia for what 25 years?

SPEAKER_05

25 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_11

And then moved to Arizona. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, hello. So my questions, my question is, um, what was the hardest time for you when you were in hiding?

SPEAKER_11

What was the most difficult time for you when you were in hiding?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I couldn't, I couldn't move, I couldn't walk, and it was dark. And what I did, I I I made up stories. I have a home, I have a husband, I have a car, I have a girl, a boy. And believe it or not, all that came true after the war. In fact, I dream of a real red car, and my husband had a little red spot car.

SPEAKER_00

That's so cool. Okay, and then my my last my other question is uh how did you feel when the Holocaust was over?

SPEAKER_11

How did you feel when it was over?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I was very happy, but the unfortunate fortunate part is uh I didn't find my mom. I was thinking I would see my mom, and that was very hard for me because my mom spoiled me until the age of 10. She loved me so much. Until the age of 10, she dressed me, feed me, and put me on the party. That's what she did to me. She didn't do me a favor, but she loved me to death.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Um, hello. Um, I have two questions. My first one is what gave you hope during hiding? What gave you hope during hiding? What gave you hope?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, because I wanted to see my parents. I didn't know what happened to my parents. So I wanted to see my parents, so I had to be good to see my parents.

SPEAKER_02

Um and then at any point when you were in hiding, did you start to believe that you know there really was something wrong with you because you were Jewish?

SPEAKER_11

Did you it's a good question. When you were in hiding, did you ever think about that there was something wrong with you because you were Jewish? Did you understand that this was being done to you because you were Jewish?

SPEAKER_05

Oh yeah, no, I understood that. You know what? When things go bad, you get you you get aware of things fast. You you it's not a dream, it's right there.

SPEAKER_11

How did it make you feel being Jewish knowing that this was happening to you?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I felt bad. I felt bad, but it's nothing I could do. And oh yeah, the the family that was in hiding in the cellar after the war, they took me to the church and they say, We want to baptize you. And when they took me to the priest, the priest says she's 14 years old now. She was 10 years old when she came to you. She's 14. I have to ask her, do you want to be baptized? I say, No, I don't want to be baptized because I know I'm Jewish. But because I stay with the nice people and they give me refuge, I will go to mass with them and I will learn the rosary. But I don't want to be baptized.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, hi, my name is Jackson, and I have about two questions. The first one is what could you understand during the whole thing? Like what was happening that you definitely knew.

SPEAKER_11

What did you understand was happening when you were in hiding? What did you think was happening?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I knew what was happening. I I was dreaming of the end of the war that I should get back with my mom and my and my father and my brother. That's the only thing that get kept me alive because I wanted to see him soon.

SPEAKER_11

But you knew that there was a war going on.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04

Okay. And my second question is what were you doing or what was your life like before all of this happened? Before the war, what was your life like?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, it was beautiful. We I live in a beautiful uh are we gonna show pictures? We already did that. Okay. I live in a beautiful modern uh building. We had a terrace, and all the kids went to play on the terrace from the four buildings, A, B, C, D. And it was 10 floor and 10 apartments, and so many kids. I had so many friends. I had a wonderful life. In fact, I didn't want to go down for lunch. So my mother would bring lunch upstairs on the terrace to feed me because I wanted to stay with the kids to play.

SPEAKER_11

What happened to that, all those children?

SPEAKER_05

Well, some mostly I had about 30 Jewish friends, they're all gone.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, thank you. Uh that's all of the questions I have.

SPEAKER_09

Hi, my name is Josie. And my two other questions were already asked, but um did you have a radio that you listened to in hiding?

SPEAKER_11

Did you have a radio that you were able to listen to?

SPEAKER_09

No.

SPEAKER_05

I had a grandmother who came down and and helped me to knit stockings for the family. That's it. No communication, no communication with anybody, no phones. No, in fact, one time I went up, but that time that I went up, the German came in, so the father threw me back to the cellar, and I was so scared. I was hiding under the the bed, and I came out, I was white like a shit. So you give me a shot of cognac, he said, back to the cellar, and that's it.

SPEAKER_09

And then I have another question, and I think you answered it, but I wasn't quite sure. But how old were you when your parents told you what was happening?

SPEAKER_11

How old were you when the war first started happening?

SPEAKER_09

How old I was? Yeah, 10.

SPEAKER_05

I've got 10.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_09

That was it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_10

My name is Jackson, and and I'm also have the same name as the other Jackson. So here are one of my questions. How did the Holocaust affect you?

SPEAKER_11

How did the Holocaust affect you in life?

SPEAKER_05

Well, it's it's unfortunately the German didn't get me, but they brand me because I get up with it and I go to bed with it. It never goes away from me. It's there and it's staying there.

SPEAKER_11

But you have a message.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, yeah, I have a message to tell the the the everybody when when when you hold through with the questions.

SPEAKER_11

Yeah, she does have a message that's helped her.

SPEAKER_10

This might be one in of in the stories, but what did you do in the cellar other than uh make up stories?

SPEAKER_11

What else did you do in the cellar besides making up stories?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, the grandmother was nice. She came down and she showed me how to knit stockings for the family.

SPEAKER_10

So I still have questions, but what are one of the tragedies that you have gone through? Might be in the stories as well.

SPEAKER_11

What was the worst thing that happened to you during the war?

SPEAKER_10

I said one of the tragedies.

SPEAKER_11

The tragedies?

SPEAKER_10

One of the tragedies. Okay.

SPEAKER_11

Explain that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_10

Like, like, what are one of the tragedies that they've gone that she has gone through in the in the Holocaust?

SPEAKER_11

In the Holocaust. What was something, what was a tragedy that you experienced during the Holocaust?

SPEAKER_05

Well, the the most experienced. I was so attached to my mom when they took away my mom. That was the worst. It was like you cut my arm and you cut my legs. Because until the age of 10, she feed me, she dressed me, she was everything around me. So that's the worst that happened.

SPEAKER_10

That's all of my questions.

SPEAKER_13

Uh hello, my name is uh Kane. And if you could take back one thing you said or did, what would it be and why?

SPEAKER_11

If there's anything that you could take back that you said or did during the war? During the Holocaust and hiding. During the Holocaust and hiding, was there anything that you said or did that you would take back?

SPEAKER_05

No, no, that that was my my way to be, and that's it.

SPEAKER_13

You you feel like everything went perfectly and there's nothing you would change at all?

SPEAKER_05

Well, I I wish it would not the whole thing didn't happen. That's my wish.

SPEAKER_13

Yeah. But you feel like you did your part the best, to the best. Like there's nothing you would take back.

SPEAKER_11

I I think the one thing that uh we've talked about before is there was a janitor that helped my mom, and you wish that you would have gone back after the war to to see her because she helped me.

SPEAKER_05

And I was too young and too happy to see my father and back to life normal. So I forgot about the janitor and I regret that.

SPEAKER_11

That's the one thing that she wishes that she would have done. But we did dedicate.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, I dedicate the quatre villes to Yavachem to recognize for what they did for me. So I wanted recognition for that family. In fact, they came in the village and did a ceremony for the son for these parents for what they did for me.

SPEAKER_13

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_12

Um, my name is Eli. And what would, in your opinion, what would you say the worst part of it was? Was it the hiding? Was it going into it? What would you say the worst part was?

SPEAKER_11

What was the worst part about the war? What was the worst part? Was it hiding in the cellar? Was it being held by the Romanian? Was it being in the orphanage?

SPEAKER_05

The worst, the worst part was when they took away my mom. They took away my arm and my leg, and that was the worst part. And I wanted to see my mom after the war. In fact, we went to places to see where deportated came back. So my father and I went to all hotels to find if she was there. And we find that two years only after they sent us a certificate. I have the certificate here. They sent us that she was she died in 1979 and in deportation in Auschwitz.

SPEAKER_11

1942.

SPEAKER_05

1942, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_11

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Do you want to give your message, Mom?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I have a question. Uh do it.

SPEAKER_11

Do you want to do your question? Do you have a yeah? And then we'll have her give her message.

Ed

Um so this is uh a question that I ask anybody who's more experienced in life than I am. What what was the what is the proudest moment of your life?

SPEAKER_11

What are you most proud of? What's the proudest moment of your life?

SPEAKER_05

Well, the proudest moment of my life is when I married my husband, when I find a nice man, and not only a nice man, but the whole family. I had a family back because my father and mother was my father was from ten kids, and my mom from nine, and we had cousin, aunt, uncle. At when we ate at my mom's place, we never ate alone. It was always full with people. So when I find my husband with a family, that that made me feel very good.

Ed

That is um quite essentially like the most common answer because I've known people who worked in the Manhattan Project, I've known people that has fought in Normandy and Vietnam and just World War One, World War II. And I asked them this question what is uh what is the proudest thing in your life? And they always say it's their family. Like they're beautiful family, yeah. Like their their greatest contribution to the world is their family.

SPEAKER_05

Well, my message uh it's gonna be among family.

Ed

Yeah, so what is what is your what is your message?

SPEAKER_05

Oh my message is love your family because you have only one family in a lifetime, be positive in life because negativity doesn't bring you anything. And and be positive and be respectful to each other. And that's my message, and I wish you uh the best of of everything that it should happen to all of you.

unknown

Thank you.

Ed

Thank you so much. Thank you.

unknown

Thank you.

SPEAKER_11

My mom has a website if you want to stay up to date. Uh Charlotte Edelman.com.

unknown

Thank you.

Ed

Yeah, we'll be sure to we'll we'll put that in the in the show notes and and all that. So wow. That was um that that's a story. That's a a a set of experiences that um I don't know about you, but it takes away my complaining rights.

SPEAKER_01

I've never complained.

Ed

Actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I complain I complain a little bit, but I don't complain very much.

Ed

That's true. Yeah, you you don't, yeah, you never gripe about anything whereas like I could stub my toe three weeks ago and I could go on for hours about it. Um, but but the what really stood out to me, and and you can kind of hear it with the kids, like it resonated with them is that message where she's like, you've gotta cling to your family, you've you've gotta live life as happy as you can. And given how powerful her background is, and and the part that that really kind of hit me over the head is when she was talking about like all of her friends that she grew up with up until the point where she had to go into hiding, none of them made it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Ed

And and then her mom, and then it's just like how many times do we hear, you know, when we when we were teenagers, the like, oh my parents drove me up the wall and this and that, and then then you hear from Charlotte, you're like, oh, okay, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe I shouldn't say stuff like that. And and and I can I remember when she was saying, you know, like that that final message, just how important family is, and those kids were the most quietest I have ever heard them.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's one of those things where it's for the kids, it was important for me as their history teacher for them to really experience somebody who has experienced that's a lot of experience. Yeah. A lot of um exception. An event like that. Yes. Because it's one thing to read about it, it seems really detached and far away. But when you have a living human being talking to you about what they went through during that particular event, that's when it really hits home.

Ed

Well, and and and I remember talking to um a few of them. Uh and I was asking them at the end of it, the uh the part that really stood out to them. I think it was Nathaniel. He's like, the only way she gets through it after all these years is by telling her story. Because she relives it every single day, and I've seen that with so many folks that have experienced uh whether it's a a a battle or uh you know a war or a tragedy such as this. And the thing that really kind of stood out to me, and and I kinda want to bring this up because Robs are gonna have a lot of our students, and um, a lot of their friends are gonna be listening to this and their parents, I was exceptionally proud of how respectful they were. And and I know it's the previous generation's job is to gripe about the next upcoming generation for whatever reason, but I'm sorry, when it really came down to it, these kids they they understood that okay, the respect part starts now, and we do not divert from that at all. So, yes, I I I I really wanted to mention that, uh, how well they did, um, how mature they were. I really enjoyed their questions. Uh they were asking some pretty pretty tough ones. So, yeah, uh I I hope you guys enjoy it. Um, we're gonna have links to the uh um Arizona Jewish Historical Society in the show notes. If you are in Arizona, uh if you're in the Phoenix area, swing by. It is a really cool place. They do a lot of other uh cool uh like side presentations, like we were there on events, like we were there and we actually saw letters, like they brought them in on an on a, I think it was a Saturday. Um, I took my youngest daughter to it and they actually had letters from like concentration camps.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, letters to loved ones who were not in the camps, and it was pretty interesting because they they weren't allowed to write anything negative. Yeah, it had to be very basic, very, oh, I'm doing well. How are you? Yeah, essentially.

Ed

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So they were pretty interesting to read.

Ed

And then some of them they were they would even go so far as to they would kind of put like secret words in there to kind of be like, hey, I'm terrified, but I'm doing great, kind of a thing. But they had to write it in such a way that the censors couldn't get it. So there's a lot of amazing, amazing things going on there, especially like when they have um the uh the hologram, the Holocaust survivor hologram, where they have like hundreds of questions that you can ask this person, and he will tell you everything that you know, because they sat him down for like what 40, 50 hours over the course of a couple of weeks just asking him questions to record.

SPEAKER_01

And then the and they're doing a second one too. So um, for for anybody who's local or if you're planning on visiting, they're actually working on expanding. So they're gonna be moving into a larger building in the next year or two years. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, so they have that one. Um, that gentleman who uh recorded those questions, and then they're in the process of or maybe they just finished it of doing another person a second one.

Ed

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that'll be pretty cool. Keep an eye out for that.

Ed

And they also have that VR experience.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the VR experience was nice, but yeah, go visit it. It's awesome. Yeah, highly recommend.

Ed

Yeah, go, yeah, go check them out, support them. So, yeah, it's uh it was a pretty cool experience, I think, for all of us for the kids. I know uh I know Charlotte really enjoyed it. She got a kick out of them. So um, I would say uh keep it a hot mess, but don't. I'm gonna say cling to your family and be as happy as you can. And when in doubt, listen to what Charlotte says because you can learn a lot from her. So until next time.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for listening.