Donner, Party of 90 Fire Part 1 - Episode 52

Have you ever tried taking a shortcut or was given the directions involving a shortcut, only to find out that it tripled the amount of time it would have taken if you just stuck to the normal path? Human beings LOVE shortcuts, but most of the time a shortcut is a recipe for disaster. However, the worst shortcuts result in humans having to eat other humans to stay alive due to all the delays that "shortcut" provided. 

In this episode, Kara introduces the first part of a two part series about the Donner Party incident in the winter months of 1846 and 1847. In this first part, Kara is going to set the stage for who was involved in the Donner Party and why they were traveling to California and just exactly was this sketchy shortcut? We're going to learn about the major players, the decision makers, the shakers and stirrers of the party, and most importantly, learn about a massive double decker ox-pulled wagon and how it would get stuck in a McDonalds drive-thru today. 

If you're not familiar with the Donner Party incident and you have a strong stomach towards... errrr... ummmm... uhhhh... exotic foods, check out The Day's Dumpster Fire website. There you'll find more details of what happened in this particular event as well as a back catalog of over 50 episodes of humans doing what they do best: messing stuff up so they can learn so they can mess more stuff up! Furthermore, you can check out Kara's artwork as she typically "draws" her inspiration for images from various episodes. 

If you know of dumpster fires in history that you want to learn more about, send us an email at thedaysdumpsterfire@gmail.com. Check us out on Instagram for more little tidbits of dumpster fires. 

So sit back, take a listen, and remind yourself to always second guess someone's suggestion of taking a shortcut... unless you're into to potentially needing to eat people... then in that case DON'T DO IT!

Hey before you go! 

If have ideas for future episodes that you want Kara and Ed to look into, email them at thedaysdumpsterfire@gmail.com. They would love to hear from you!

You can also send them a text message by clicking on the link at the top. 

Be sure to head on over to www.thedaysdumpsterfire.com for the ever growing library of historical dumpster fires. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, this is Kara.

SPEAKER_05 0:02

This is Daisha. And this is Ed.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

And this is your days of dumpster fire, where we don't celebrate humanity successes.

SPEAKER_05 0:12

But its most fantastic failures. Yeah, we did it.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Did it. We did it, guys.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I really don't know what came upon me and possessed me.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Oh, wait. Wait.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

What is why does it do this?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Wee wee. We're too early.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

We wee. Whoa. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

No, for some odd reason, our our intro this has a mind of its own, and it will just start and restart on its own. And we don't know why. It's fine. Yeah, it's very, it's very uh special, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

She's special. She's special, alright. Hey guys. What's up, everyone? How's everybody doing?

SPEAKER_05 1:18

Just just getting through the week.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

It's been a week.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

It's been a week, but it's Friday. It's Friday, though, guys. I understand it's been a week. But let's just celebrate the fact that we made it to Friday. And for all the listeners out there, if it's not Friday yet, you can make it to Friday just like we did.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

Yeah.

unknown 1:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

And if it is currently Friday for you, just bear in mind that the next Friday is only a week away.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

That's right. Seven days away. Countdown now.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

That's a lot of days. Just think about how many days that is in between. It's not that many. Seven days. How many hours is that?

SPEAKER_05 2:00

I don't know. What's 24 times? 24. So that would be what 140? That would be 168 hours.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

There you go. 168 hours. Half of those you're sleeping. It's fine.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

We do this. Or if you're like Deja and I were most of that spent driving.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yes. Both of those options.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

So uh the today's episode. I have no idea what it is. Kara is absolutely refusing to fill me in in terms of what this episode is about, which makes naming it really fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

All right. So, Kara, I know you've been working on this episode for the past seven, eight years. Uh, would you mind filling us in and what in the world this is all about?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Nope. I'm just gonna start it.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

Oh god. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

I'm just gonna go, and you'll you'll immediately get it, I think, when I say a particular name.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Let me get that lane.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

All right. Um, first and foremost, I do have some essential questions to ask. Have you ever tried to take a shortcut that didn't end up making it a shortcut? Too many times.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Every time I go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Have you ever tried to travel somewhere and you got lost trying to take said shortcut and it just made it worse? I'm getting it.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

That happened uh yeah, yeah. That I mean, that happened to me when we were down in Tucson.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 3:34

Where like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna cut through this neighborhood, and then like five miles later, like I get back to where we started. Like, cool. Well, that was scenic, so yes, I've I've been there.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Perfect. Well, with those things in mind, I'm gonna take you back in the Wayback Machine to the 1840s, and we're gonna start in Springfield, Illinois. So, Springfield, Illinois. People living in the 1840s, especially those living east of the Mississippi, the notion of moving west was very much more than a change of scenery. Spurred by the idea of manifest destiny, work opportunities, fertile farmlands. An estimated 300,000 to 400,000 settlers took the Oregon Trail west to California or Oregon. See episode seven and eight, Oregon Trail. By the 1840s, the Oregon Trail was being used regularly. People understood that if you wanted to California before winter hits, using the trail, you have to stick to a very strict schedule. And general settlers began their journey in centrally located independence, Missouri. This was the most established starting point with resources for travel trailheads or roads going west following the Missouri River, and it just made scheduling a lot easier. A well-planned wagon train left independence in mid-April to beat the winter when traveling to California. Typical travel time to Sacramento, then called Sutter Sport, was three to six months-ish, with about 12 to 15 miles per day on average. So that's very important. Please keep that in mind. I'm going to introduce you to a man named Lansford Hastings. Mr. Hastings, by the time he died, he was married three different times with nine children. Hastings played the role of a soldier in the Civil War and the Mexican-American War. He was also a writer and a settler. Overall, he was a very complicated and interesting human, and he he really did live quite an eventful life. But before he did any of those things, he was a lawyer from Ohio who found himself in charge of a wagon train moving west to Oregon in 1842. A year later, he would make it to California. Hastings eventually transformed his lot in life to become an important figure in settling the West, developing towns in Oregon and California in the early mid-1840s. While he was doing so, he wrote a book called The Emigrant's Guide to Oregon and California, published in 1845. The book was widely popular amongst people who aspired to move West. And in his book, Hastings claimed that there was a shortcut for settlers traveling to California, which he called the Hastings Cutoff. This shortcut was supposed to have cut off 350 to 400 miles off of the trip to California. So what it did is the original trail going to California for independence, it would go north around the mountain range, like through Idaho, if I remember correctly, and then back down to the Sacramento area. He was suggesting don't go north at all, just go through the mountains. So that is Hastings, and this book that he wrote spreads and travels everywhere. So anybody who wants to go to California is going to buy this book and they're going to take this shortcut very seriously. One man who took immense stock in Hastings' book was a man named James Reed. Originally from Ireland, Reed was an Illinois businessman, primarily in mining, with a personal relationship with Abraham Lincoln. He was married to Margaret Beckenstow, who was widowed with a daughter named Virginia Elizabeth. Their daughter was 13 years old. The couple married in 1835 and had four children of their own: Martha Jane, James F. Jr., and Gersham Francis, who died when he was an infant. R.A.P. Reed was known to be a man with good intentions, proud, maybe a little too proud, and a bit hot-headed. And he is complicated, but he was also known to be a very dedicated husband and father. So great family man, just kind of hot-headed. We've all met those. The Reed family was considered wealthy, and James had heard even more opportunity for him and his family out in California. In 1845, Reed began planning to move his family to California, and during the planning process, he began to look for others who would join him. He asked his friend Abraham Lincoln to join him, but Lincoln refused as his Mary, as his wife, Mary Todd, was pregnant, imagine. Reed eventually gripped up with another family, the Doners, to make the journey.

SPEAKER_05 8:10

Okay. Okay. I I know where this is going. This has been so fun. Oh my gosh. Yep. Now I'm thinking of um of uh The Walking Dead, and they're making their way to the, what was it, the Citadel? And like season three or four or something like that, and they have like barbecue. And it's not what you think.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Oh well, you know, I hate that scene.

SPEAKER_05 8:45

Oh, yeah. Where they're like tossing the ribs around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yep, I remember.

SPEAKER_05 8:53

Okay. Now I can see why you kept this one quiet, just because this one is gonna be tasty.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Ooh, yeah. Well, this is gonna be part one of two.

SPEAKER_05 9:04

Also, we're not getting into the tasty bits yet.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

The tasty bits will be in part two, but part one, I promise you, is still excellent.

SPEAKER_05 9:13

Uh does anybody die from dysentery?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Um, not dysentery, but tuberculosis.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

Okay. Well, I mean, it's not Oregon Trail related unless it's somebody dies from dysentery. Or you lose your wagon fording a river. Or I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

This is a pretty this is like the biggest Oregon Trail story out of the Oregon Trail. But fine.

SPEAKER_05 9:32

If you want to club the issue with facts.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_05 9:40

Yeah, yeah. That's probably, yeah, like thanks for speaking Kara's mind, Asia. You should never think something like that.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

I just like to start the pot. Get him, Kara. Get a bed.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Originally from North Carolina, the Doners were comprised of two brothers and their respective families. We had Jacob, the older brother, who was about 64 in 1845, and George was around 61 as far as we know. Both George and Jacob had moved and settled down in numerous states before settling in Illinois in 1795. George Donner inherited some property from his uncle in North Carolina, and then he moved to Kentucky in 1818, landed in Indiana shortly after that, and finally Springfield, Illinois, in 1828. So he's been all over the place, at least in that area. Jacob followed his brother from state to state, likely looking for the best place to farm. George was married three different times. His third wife was named Tamson, a former teacher from Massachusetts. George had two children from two previous marriages, and the couple together had three younger children of their own. Jacob was married twice. His second wife was Elizabeth Hook. Elizabeth had two children from a previous marriage, and the two together had five younger children. So fairly big families.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

That's a that's I feel like people had a lot more children back then.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

I think they did as well.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

Well, and I mean it's free labor. I mean still, like that's just a lot of kids.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Also, that's true.

SPEAKER_05 11:15

Yeah, the whole populating the earth thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

There is that as well. Yeah. The Donner brothers have been considering moving to California after seeing advertisements about fertile farmlands, perfect weather for agriculture, and it was likely difficult for the brothers to resist. Considering their past experiences from moving from farm to farm, it would make sense for both men to have a desire to travel to California with all of this promised goodness. George Donner officially put up his farm for sale in September of 1845, and the decision had been made. By the spring of 46, the Doners and their travel plans and supplies ready for the trip to California had their travel plans and supplies, there we go, ready for their trip to California. They joined the Reeds wagon, headed out to independence, beginning their journey to a new life, a new land, and a new home for them and their families. For their trip, the Doners and the Reeds hired about a dozen teamsters, which are professional wagon drivers, and employees to travel with them. The Doners and the Reeds were not traveling alone. About 29 other families joined them. The party included men, women, children, elderly in the Reed party. Margaret's mother, Sarah Keys, tagged along at the ripe old age of 70. Before going on this journey, Sarah was told by her doctors that she only had a few months to live with a diagnosis of consumption, which is just another word for tuberculosis. Her son had already made the trip to California, was living there, and she wanted to see him before she passed on. Just before leaving.

SPEAKER_05 12:44

That's rough.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah, it's pretty easy.

SPEAKER_05 12:47

Because that's a lot of walking, and even even manhandling the reins of a like a horse-drawn wagon is like a full body workout.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:59

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

70 years old with tuberculosis on top of that.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

And just being that age at that time, yeah. 70 years old.

SPEAKER_05 13:10

I'm 40 and don't even want to do that. God.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

The lack of soles on your shoes.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

She blip, she's brave. I gotta give her credit for that. Dr. Schultz.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

I would say cantankerous, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Either one. Maybe both.

SPEAKER_05 13:24

Cantankerously brave.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

I love that word. Such a good word. I'm I'm full of weird words.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

It is. It's such a weird word. It makes me think of like a canker sore. Like she's full of catchers.

SPEAKER_05 13:42

That's probably maybe that's the root word for catankers.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I just think of cats. I don't know. I don't know why. Like it's the perfect description for a cat. In my opinion.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

Yeah. Like, really think about it.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:04

Yeah, we really did think about it. They're just always like pissed off, and you can't ever tell them what to do.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

No.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

See?

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Can never be pleased.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

See, it makes sense. That's how I learned that word in high school.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah. Yeah. Still think of canker sores.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

I don't know. That's how I rememorized it.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

And it's not because the word means anything of a canker sore. It just sounds like it would lead to a not lead to a canker sore.

SPEAKER_05 14:37

That's also cankerous part that's like it sounds like a disease.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

It really does sound like you know what else would lead to a canker score? Cankerous walking on the Oregon Trail, like the Doners. Syracuse.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 14:57

Yeah, especially like cannibalism on your mind.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

So just before leaving, George Donner was elected the leader for this stretch of the trail. The families left Springfield, Illinois on April 14th, 1846. Most families would walk next to the wagons while on the trail, just like we were talking about. Elders and sick would generally be the only people pre- people in the wagons while traveling. So I think some people get confused by that. Like most people aren't actually in the wagons when they're going on this trip. They're walking next to them. The trip to Independence, Missouri was smooth without any unexpected setbacks. However, leaving Springfield in April was actually a really late departure. It took the 31 families just under a month to arrive in independence in May of 1846. Once there, the Donner Party restocked their wagons and rested their animals. Families packed enough supplies to last them about six months. Considering the average time it takes to California to get there, it makes sense. We only need enough to make the trip. As if it were a normal trip. Anyway, George Donner and his wife packed three full wagons with trade goods and school supplies. Tamson planned on opening a school for girls when they reached their destination, and George would open a new business. The Reed family was wealthier than a majority of the other people travel traveling. They packed a double decker wagon, famously dubbed the Palace Car by other settlers. Nice. I wish, I wish I could have seen it.

SPEAKER_05 16:30

It reminds me of like Gilligan's Island where the howls like they're on this abandoned island and they are like living lavishly. I feel like that's what they're doing. It's just like, oh yeah, we're gonna just bring our entire house with us and be known as those people.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yeah, well, to be fair, Reed's wife was sickly double deckers. It was a double decker wagon.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

I wish I would double deckers.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Wish they had a picture of it. It was so cool. But to be fair, Reed's wife was ill. That's so cool. He's and Reed, he wanted to make sure that she had ample space to rest while they were on the road. As well as the wheel. On the first or second floor of their wagon. Right. Either one. It's almost it reminds me of the double decker buses they have in London. That's what I thought about, but like old timey.

SPEAKER_05 17:22

I was thinking of like those motorhomes that sell for like two million dollars that have like all the amenities in it of a like a normal house.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Right. It's true. Um, I also found a fun uh description. The palace is sometimes described as the most elaborate wagon on the Oregon Trail. So just the fact that it has two floors, I think is pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_05 17:49

Like it's like travertine floors and marble columns and but then it makes it marble.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

It's bedazzled. It's some bedazzled diamonds and stuff. It's bedazzled.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

In total, the bedazzling the canvas. Bedazzler on the top of the wagon.

SPEAKER_05 18:13

Rhinestone cowboy.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

You're fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

That was good. In total, the Donner Party was set to leave independence for California with a total of nine wagons pooled by oxen. All right. So, next chapter. Chapter two, the first stretch. By the 1860s, the Oregon Trail had more established roads and trails. Kind of what you picture when you think of the Oregon Trail. In the 1840s, it was a lot less common to have that, especially on trails that were untried or new to different travelers. Trails looked more like wagon tracks in a lot of areas than they did actual trails. While the Donner Party was getting supplies and resting their animals in independence, Lansford Hastings, the writer of the book that we were talking about, uh, he was pulling together the last wagon train out to California as the Doners were there in independence. The Doners were able to get it together just in time to join the Hastings group as they rolled out of independence on May 12th. Including the Donner Party's wagons, the large wagon train consisted of about 80 wagons total. And some sources state that it was about two miles long when it was on the move. Wow. That is a huge wagon train.

SPEAKER_05 19:32

Now, what were Native Americans still like a big concern at this time, or had that kind of been addressed somewhat?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

They were still a big concern at this time period because we're still a little early, right? We're in the 1840s. Okay. So yeah, yeah. So we're still, you know, thinking about these families or older people talking and telling their children about, you know, the Native American. horror stories and they're scared of them and all of that stuff when it's actually a lot more complicated than that.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

You know, we have Native American tribes who are friendly who want to help and then we have Native American tribes who don't really want to hurt anybody but they'll go steal your horses, uh that type of thing.

SPEAKER_05 20:18

Yeah, I guess I just didn't know when that kind of tamed down some.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Uh it's definitely a little bit later.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

If at all. Yeah that yeah. But yeah, it we're we're still in the time period where these settlers are worried about that.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

A few days after leaving independence Sarah Keyes died of tuberculosis in Alcove Springs, Kansas. So she was the lady we were just talking about the 70 year old woman. She is the first death on this trip.

SPEAKER_05 20:52

And it's it's not a pleasant death.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

No either. It's not a good time.

SPEAKER_05 20:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

She was buried there on May 29th, 1846, with a gravestone to mark her resting area and it still stands today. I saw it on Google Maps, but it is there. The first checkpoint for the settlers was Fort Laramie in Wyoming. It's about 650 mile trip from independence to the fort and the standard rate of travel was 12 to 15 miles per day, making this section of the trip an estimated four and a half weeks long.

SPEAKER_05 21:26

The wagon train this is crazy when you look back at it today, that's like 600 miles you can do that in a day.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Right. Maybe yeah a day.

SPEAKER_05 21:36

It'd be like it'd be like a 12, 14 hour day.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah it's a long day, but it it's definitely just a day.

SPEAKER_05 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

But yeah this trip on average like on a good day standard rate four and a half weeks this wagon train was large compared to others two miles on who have been taken who have been taking the established route and individual families ran into various setbacks such as broken wagon wheels, minor injuries, tired livestock and weather conditions, some so some rainy days, all you know stuff like that. Just regular things that you would expect. But the the party did get delayed by three to four days just because of the sheer size of it putting the settlers about a month and a half behind schedule now.

SPEAKER_05 22:20

Remember we're trying to beat the winter we're a month and a half late well yeah the last thing you want is to be stuck in a the Rocky mountains in the middle of winter.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

That would be that would be a bad deal right there.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Mm-hmm Despite all these delays the journey to Fort Laramie went relatively smooth and was described by settlers as happy and joyous and exciting. When writing about her time on the trail Virginia Reed who was 14 or 13 sorry described herself at this moment as perfectly happy in a letter to a friend in Springfield Tamson Donner wrote Indeed if I do not experience something worse than I have yet done I shall say the trouble is all in getting started.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

I mean yeah that's pretty pretty sound. Mm-hmm I feel like the the hardest part of doing anything is getting started.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

And it makes sense like for that time in the for for this moment that it's nice and smooth. I also read a couple sources where you know people brought their musical instruments so you'd have people like just playing songs while they're walking or you know there's dogs running around and overall it's a happy time you know very a little house on the prairie yeah yeah exactly. The wagon train reached Fort Laramie on July 3rd of 1846 they stayed at the fort for two days to make any wagon repairs needed and to rest the animals. Some travelers within the party began to express concern about the time it has taken to travel so far. George Donner was generally quiet, trying to keep the peace however James Reed voiced his confidence in the shortcut that he had read in Hastings book I just want to say this this shortcut that keeps coming up was never actually tested.

SPEAKER_05 24:11

Hastings never actually tried it really so he just looked at a map and thought oh this would be better?

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 24:19

Good good wait okay so in other words we're looking at a map that's probably already outdated and you're finding a shortcut and then it basically boils down to what could possibly go wrong?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Correct.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

That's where we're at so many famous last words on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Nothing will go wrong.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

So during their stay at Fort Laramie Reed came across a man named James Kleiman. Klyman was a war veteran from the War of 1812 who learned about land surveying from his experiences there. And from there he became a well-known guide throughout the American West during their conversation Klyman told Reed go the old route go go the established Oregon Trail route after hearing about their plans please just do it the way you should after he heard about their plans to take the shortcut do the way we should Klyman had taken the shortcut but in reverse so he went from California to Fort Laramie and he tried this shortcut that was written about um despite his warnings however Reed was very convinced that this shortcut is it's gonna work we're gonna be fine don't worry about it we're gonna trust this hastening guys he's no he knows what he's doing we're gonna trust the lawyer from Ohio it's fine.

SPEAKER_05 25:40

Trust the lawyer to make a shortcut that's yeah that's where we face balls.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

The wagon train left Fort Laramie on July 5th 1846 to continue west. They arrived at the Little Sandy River in western Wyoming on July 18th this was the stop in which the settlers and the party faced a fork in the road like a literal fork. They could take the established route on the right headed north or they could take the route on the left headed to Fort Bridger and the entrance to the Hastings cutoff. The decision for many families was rather difficult. On one hand the settlers understood that they were very short on time. On the other, an unfamiliar shortcut could ultimately cost more than what they were planning for. In the end, 28 wagons including the Doners and the Reeves took the left headed to Fort Bridger and the remaining 52 wagons took the right on the established Oregon trail headed to the California trail. In total roughly 87 people took the left 29 men 15 women and 43 children.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

They expected to meet Lansford Hastings at Fort Bridger to act as a guide through the shortcut he had written about chapter three the cutoff so what what is the shortcut that we keep hearing about sounds like a lot of truck drivers know about this uh shortcut yeah yeah this is really reminiscent on yeah was it the Tory Canyon is that the one that I was where the captain fell asleep the idea was like the captain's like no no no take this way it's safer he went to bed and then his junior officers are like screw the captain we're gonna do it our way and we're gonna go in between this gap of jagged rocks.

SPEAKER_05 27:30

I'm an expert and and still keep the ship an autopilot so they couldn't actually make any corrections.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah but I don't think they uh I don't think uh these oxen carts had autopilot I mean if they get thirsty enough I was gonna say well maybe if they got scared 200 miles ahead of the Donner party was Lanceford Hastings and a smaller wagon train that he was leading to California he decided to lead his group through the Hastings cutoff for the first time. While they traveled they left notes for settlers to find to guide them or like give them advice they're trying to help out. Because the Hastings party was smaller it moved a little bit faster than the Donner's and it gave them a head start. Leaving notes was a clever way to help and at least they could do and it was the least they could do when taking an untested route west on a time crunch. So at least he tried right in hindsight back in Wyoming the families who had chosen to take the shortcut chose George Donner as their leader for this stretch of the trip just like they did back in Springfield. He was level headed with experience and Georgia and his wife were well respected amongst the settlers and it was noted that Reed was not chosen for his role due to his aristocratic nature and wealth which didn't help his image while traveling with people who were not so fortunate. So Reed is a lot more outgoing and acts as leader but wasn't given the official title because of his um reputation as a um stuck up wealthy guy. But again in all reality he's a dude who comes off like too much and he really just wants to do what he can for his family.

SPEAKER_05 29:15

So I just want to keep noting that so like he wasn't really taken seriously I'm assuming it's just like you go back to your palace and let us men figure this out yes and no because people still listen to him. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

People still followed him in George for the most part so I I wouldn't say that he like he was just brushed off but it was more if he were chosen as leader he wouldn't have as many followers as George would okay if that makes sense like more doubted yeah because he had a lot of money and the other some of the other settlers were like I don't like that with his double decker wagon like you can't even like it it's like a high cube it's just so tall like he's like trying to get it through a McDonald's drive thru and keeps hitting the the parking structure at the airport like yeah yeah suddenly it's turned into a like an open top because he's just sheared off the top of his palace. Right?

SPEAKER_05 30:18

I know what I'm drawing for this episode a wagon stuck in a McDonald's drive-thru a bedazzled wagon drive thru it has to be bedazzle though yes that's exactly what I thought about yep double decker trying to get through the McDonald's going through a a 10 foot max front like water sloshing out of the hot tub they have inside of it. Yep or you see the wagon it's like pulled through and then you see the top of it like perfectly sheared off sitting behind them just on the ground like canvas and everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Perfect all wrapped around it just torn off onto the 10 foot old post about six days later the party arrived at Fort Bridger the stop before the shortcut Bridger was very very small. It consisted of two cabins and a trading post. That was it the fort was run by famed mountain man and pioneer Jim Bridger. He and his partner built the fort specifically to give advice to travelers headed west. In this case it said that Bridger told the Doners that the path they were heading to was safe quick and easy according to Hastings book this route should only take a week to get to Salt Lake City and that stop met with the original California trail so Bridge's word confirmed the information in the eyes of the reads and the shortcut was legitimate like this is going to be great. Disheartened the party they were super excited and um they were like yeah this is this is the right move like if this guy says that it's legitimate and the book says it's good to go then then this this is it.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

The amount of like questionable yeah this is legit are like when you go to a parking lot carnival like at the mall the the the sketchy like rides yeah like the little roller coaster floor it's all rickety yeah it's like yeah roller coaster and it it doesn't have enough energy to go up so it just kind of like gets up there and then it just like and then just falls back and then you're just like stuck in this divot for an hour until they figure how to get you out.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Hey I'll put my kid on oh my gosh like I'm sure there's an insurance claim in here somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Oh guaranteed that's fine the next seven days of travel proved to be as Bridger stated. However on August 6th the Doners found a note left by Hastings and this is seven days of travel this is the week we should be hitting Salt Lake City right the note stated that the trail ahead was difficult especially for oxen and wagon travel. In the note Hastings requested the reader to wait for him to return and find a new way through the Wasatch Mountains to California. So that's promising. Yeah that's it that's a change of that's a change of plans seems legit seems legit and just for anybody who's wondering the Wasatch mountain range runs north and south through northern Utah so we're on the border of Wyoming and Utah right now. I'll put maps up but the Donard Party decided to press ahead and look for Hastings instead of waiting for him to try to save time it took him an extra five days to find him oh great shortcut um I'm I'm I haven't kept track at this point but I know we're far behind. I think we're probably like two months late whoa something like that.

SPEAKER_05 34:08

So what what month are we in at this point?

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Are we um this is August we're in August right now. Oh yeah yeah times times are running out times a ticking we're like because we found the note from Hastings on August 6th and then it took five days to find him so we're mid-August now when the Donner party finally found Hastings they requested that he guide them out through the mountains Hastings refused. Instead Yeah we love you nice of him we love him instead he led the Doners and James Reed the so the Donner brothers George and Jacob and James they those three guys he took them to a high peak to scope out a different way through the range Hastings pointed out a different path than the one that he had just come from before continuing on his own way he's like uh you maybe try that good luck bye you see that that little like you see that little path over there I'm pretty sure that's the one you go down just take a laugh yeah just just try this don't mind the plants it's fine and if you get stuck make sure you have plenty of food yes the path six months a little buried bring a shovel bring a shovel without much guidance or experience in this part of the country the Donner Party took Hastings' word for it because who else are they going to listen to and took the path he had just suggested. Turns out this particular path was disastrous there was no trail any sort of path was non-existent deep within the canyons brush and plant life that needed to be cut away for wagons to pass so that took a lot of time and rocky terrain threatened to break every wooden wagon wheel that rolled through it took the genre party you ready it took them six days to travel eight miles that is unacceptable in so many different ways.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Is that not just infuriating I get mad when I can't like get to work under an hour or yeah by an hour and if I were to not be able to get to work for three months for one this is only going to take a week only a week right the shortcut the shortcut the shortcut the shortcut the shortcut will fix everything.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Yes the the this is this is all we need 17 days later brick road 17 days later 17 days the Donner Party finally crossed through the Wasatch Mountains it took them 17 days Virginia Reed would later write it had taken an entire month instead of a week and our cattle were not fit to travel the desert it was late August by the time the wagon train reached Salt Lake the settlers were very aware that once they reached the Salt Lake in Utah they would need to cross the Salt Lake desert exhausted the Donner party marched on with another 600 miles to go that's a there's more are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Oh no are you ready for the desert but wait there's more no you sure like wait till the bombs come into play all right next chapter when are we on chapter four angry so let's see how this goes chapter four the desert and yeah unless you took a shortcut to get there well you know we are in late August so it's going to be very comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Chapter one, two and four here we go smells good that's it understanding that time was of the essence the party trekked through the Salt Lake as fast as possible while still giving their animals moments of rest. On August 25th the Donner party lost their second person. This person's name was Luke Holleran and he died of consumption so tuberculosis he was traveling to California in hopes that the weather there would be better for his health and mitigate the illness and he was said to have died in George Donner's wagon. He thanked them for their kindness while he was with them and Holleran left them a little bit of money that he had left in a piece of property that he owned as a thank you to the Doners. One source I found wrote that Holleran's body was buried in a bed of pure salt believing the salt would preserve the body and they also claimed that they found free mason memorabilia in his trunk after he died which I just thought that was an interesting tidbit about him. Oh that's cool. Yeah he was a younger guy I think he was in his 30s in his late 20s early 30s yeah yeah a couple days after Holloran's burial the party found another note left by Hastings but this one was torn up in pieces and shreds Eliza Donner watched her mother pick this note up and put it back together as best as she could the note said two days two nights hard driving across the desert reach water do we trust the two days and two nights I don't know goodness the party took this note very seriously though they trusted it they were like okay together they collected as much spring water and vegetation mostly grass as they could carry in preparation for the journey because take what you can get right on August 30th we're at the very end of August 1846 the Donner Party took their first steps into the Salt Lake Desert. The Great Salt Lake is a dry lake bed and home to the Bonneville Salt Flats. So for those of you who don't know it's like this giant salt Landscape where they used to race race cars on. It's really neat. Look it up.

SPEAKER_05 40:04

Yeah. I mean, little did they know that in like what a hundred and fifty years, like there'd be cars like Danger breaking the sound barrier.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Right.

SPEAKER_05 40:17

In that that area. Because it's just so flat.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Can you imagine traveling that in wagons?

SPEAKER_05 40:25

I mean, at least this way they could just take all their meat and just roll it on the ground, and now it's salt cured.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Like it's now it's preserved. What's the movie where they they sing Roland, Roland, Roland? Oh, I don't remember. Is that American Tale?

unknown 40:44

I know.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

Oh, I thought it was a John Wayne movie.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

We'll have to look that one up. American, American. Is it the one with the mice? American Tale. With Five One. American Tale. I think that's it. Yeah. Is that the movie? That's what I picture when you when you asked me that. Cute. I haven't watched that movie in a long time. I should watch it again. Anyway. Hastings that told the party. Yeah. Five will goes west. Five will goes west. I want to watch that movie now. After doing this research, I really want to watch that movie. Let's watch it at school. Okay. Perfect. Hastings that told the party that the crossing was about 40 miles wide. Turns out it was 80. Double. Just double it. It's fine. Well it was supposed to take two days. No big deal. According. No, it's fine.

SPEAKER_05 41:35

Just double it. You know what? To be safe, let's just triple it.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

No, you know. And it's not like we're doubling it like, oh, six to twelve. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

No, no, no. 40 to 80.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

And remember, on a good day, it takes 12 to 15 miles in a day.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

This is supposed to take two days. It took five. Water ran out on day three.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

Good. In the salt flat.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

So that's Deja's doing that thing where that we were doing with the oil spill. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah. Rubbing my temples.

SPEAKER_05 42:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

What's happening?

SPEAKER_05 42:19

We're on the verge of like Kara coming across like a Ron Popeel infomercial. Like, but wait, there's more. They ran out of water. It seems okay. They only got 80 more miles to go. There is more though.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

I'm actually gonna need a check-in actually next week.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

On the third day, Reed attempted to travel ahead by himself to find water. While he was gone, the oxen and the cattle began to give in to their thirst and exhaustion. Some collapsed while others went mad, running about the desert from thirst. So when you said that uh the oxen don't really have autopilot, they do. Just not the autopilot you want.

SPEAKER_05 43:11

Their definition of autopilot is like a runaway Tesla.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Looking for water. Like Waymo, just off its rocker.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Like perfect. One settler named Edwin Bryant wrote later about his experience, saying, Day after day we traveled over an arid plain, the intense heat reflecting from the salty crush in blinding waves. Our animals gave out, some dropping dead in the harness. Others broke loose and fled wildly in the distance, crazed by thirst and exhaustion. Eventually Reed returned, claiming that he searched for water for hours, maybe the full day, and failed due to the disorienting nature of the desert. He told the party upon his return that he would see water in the distance, but it never came to fruition. It was more likely that it was seeing the heat waves on the horizon line, you know, when it gets really hot, and that's probably what he was seeing.

SPEAKER_05 44:08

Yeah, that that's actually what causes mirages is the uh you're you're seeing the heat waves interact with the uh atmosphere and it causes that that shimmering effect. I mean, I I don't know. If I was in their situation and I saw that, I would be like, Oh, there's water out there.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:30

Yeah, so I don't blame them one bit for falling victim to mirages.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

So upon his return, Reed also found that his cattle were gone. Either dead from exhaustion or they ran off into the desert. Virginia wrote about the loss in a letter to a friend not long after the incident. She wrote, our poor oxen dropped down in their yolks and died. The sun beat down like fire, and there was not a drop of water to be found. The next morning, Reed went looking for his lost cattle. He only found one cow and one ox. In total, the party as a whole lost about 36 oxen.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Yeah, that's rough.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Goodness.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

That's rough. The loss forced families to abandon extra wagons and belongings. They could only bring bare essentials with them now. Some families buried belongings while others just left them out in the open or in the abandoned wagons. One of the wagons left behind was the palace wagon, unfortunately. We had to leave the double decker in the desert.

SPEAKER_05 45:35

Oh no, they left it at the McDonald's.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

The double decker. They had to leave the double decker at McDonald's.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

They couldn't get it from under the 10-foot post.

SPEAKER_05 45:44

Yes. There's like a line of cars like two miles long, every honking their horns because this wagon just got stuck in a McDonald's drive-thru.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Right. This makes me think of um holes.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

I think it's why Kiss and Kate Barlow was trailing behind these people waiting to steal their stuff.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

On the fifth day, the party reached the edge of the desert on the border of Nevada and Utah. It was early September and fall was fast approaching. At the same time, while they were finally getting out of the desert, Lansford Hastings in the wagon train he was with, as well as the giant wagon train the Doners were a part of before that the Doners left independence with, they all arrived safely in California. Everybody arrived except those of the party that went left back at Little Sandy River.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Alright, chapter four. Nevada. Before the Donner Party continued west, they stopped for rest. Checking on their supplies, they realized that they were dangerously low on resources. It certainly was not enough to make it to California, and they knew that. To make things worse, it began to snow that night. It was decided amongst the group that someone needed to ride ahead on horses for a supply run while the rest of the party continued at a slower pace. Two men volunteered for the job, Charles Stanton and William McCutcheon. McCutcheon? We're gonna go with McCutcheon because that sounds better.

SPEAKER_05 47:20

It doesn't matter. It's fine. They're all dead.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yeah, I guess. McCutcheon was a farmer from Missouri, and Stanton was a bachelor from Chicago. He was a businessman. Um and Stanton was the first person to volunteer for this job, but because he was a bachelor, he didn't have any family to come back for. Some of the settlers were like, okay, somebody needs to go with this guy to make sure he doesn't ditch us. So that's why they sent uh McCutcheon along. McCutcheon would write letters to his family frequently on his quest for supplies. And later his letters would be published in New York newspapers, so you can still read them. You just have to know where to look. Yeah. That's pretty cool. That's also too. The Donner Party continued west towards Humboldt River, Nevada, where they would meet the old trail that led to California. So finally, we're seeing the end of this shortcut. They reached the old California Trail in the Humboldt River, in Humboldt River on September 26, 1846. Turns out that the shortcut, in quotes. Shortcut. The dot the Donner Party made took 125 miles longer than the established trail.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

My dirt.

SPEAKER_05 48:44

Oh man. Only to get stuck in a McDonald's drive-thru.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

And we lost her bedazzled wagon. Bedazzled wagon. Not the double decker. Not the double decker. By early October. Oh, I know it's so bad. By early October, frustrated, tired, defeated, the party still continued to travel west. We just gotta get to California.

unknown 49:13

Give up.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Give up. No.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Just like stop where you are.

SPEAKER_05 49:17

Yes. Just settle there. Stop right now.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Give a settlement right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

On October 5th, the settlers had been working their way up a steep hill. They had to double up their oxen because there aren't many left in order to get all of the wagons up safely. The Graves family wagon, um, and the Grace family is another family that is written about frequently. They're interesting. I just didn't have a lot of time to write about the Grays family, but I suggest you do. The Grays family wagon, driven by James Snyder, had gotten tangled up with the Reed's wagon. So their their oxen got tangled in reins or something of that nature. Snyder became angry and began beating Reed's ox with the butt of his whip. Reed saw the commotion. Rude, I know. James Reed saw this and uh attempted to speak with Snyder to get him to calm down. Uh, and just so we are all on the same page, Reed and Snyder were actually good friends. They have known each other for a little bit. Not no more. Snyder argued, or I'm sorry, Reed argued that the oxen's health was more important than the frustrations of the entanglement. Period. Reed suggested that they find a solution to fix the issue at the top of the hill once we figured out what to do. However, hotter heads prevailed. Snyder refused to go up the hill or calm down, and he turned his bull whip on Reed's head as opposed to the ox's head, and Reed was hit over the head multiple times. With blood rushing down his face, Reed pulled his hunting knife out and stabbed Snyder in the chest out of self-defense. Snyder died within 30 minutes of the incident.

SPEAKER_05 50:59

This is going swimmingly.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

It's rough guys. It's rough guys. Immediately, people in the party became angry or frustrated, and camp was made very, very quickly. The Reeds took refuge in their tents while the rest of the Donner Party convened in a makeshift council to decide on how to proceed. Many felt that Reed should have been punished for the murder of Snyder, even though Reed had a good claim for self-defense. Some even felt that um he should be hanged for his um murder or manslaughter, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 51:36

Yeah, self-self-defense murder.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Yeah. While the Donner Party was deliberating, Reed, in his tent with his family, asked his daughter Virginia to assist him with bandaging his head. His wife was still ill from the walk through the desert. Virginia agreed to help, but she asked James to show her how to wrap his wounds because she's only 13. She did so successfully. Good on her. But she it she did write down later that um she did cry as she was doing it because you know it was it was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Well, I what else is she gonna do? Like, go ahead, girl, go cry.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

I think, yeah, like do you also Virginia? My heart goes out to her, she's one of my favorites of the story. But Virginia wrote later as well that she's gonna be okay. Her and her father, her father and Snyder were very good friends, as I had said, and he'd felt nothing but guilt in terms of the outcome of this argument. He like he felt super bad. So, again, like I'm saying, he has a kind of a hot head and he likes to do things a certain way, but his intentions are always good. Reed claimed self-defense when given the chance to defend himself among the party. They denied his appeal, and they wanted to punish him anyway. Fortunately for Reed, the party did not decide to hang him, like the one guy suggested. Instead, they chose to banish him from the party. So, no, we're not gonna kill you, but we are gonna kick you out. Good. Yeah. They gave him a horse and one more night with his family before they sent him away. Initially, Reed did not agree to this punishment. He thought it was really dumb. He kept trying to argue it. He really felt that leaving his family was inherently wrong and he fought to stay with his family, which fair. Fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

Fair. But when the rest of the party gave him the choice, his wife was the person who convinced him to accept the decision. She told him that their family would be safe with the larger group, and it was unrealistic for them to leave with him because they had small children, and she was ill.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

In her eyes, it was the only solution to the issue at hand right now. I know. Our guy. All right. The next day. We're gonna keep going. We're almost there. We're almost done with part one. Part one's almost done. The next day on October 7th, James Reed helped Barry Snyder, because he's a good guy like that. Said goodbye to his wife and his youngest children and walked towards his horse. Behind him was 13-year-old Virginia carrying his guns, some food, and her younger brother Elliot, walking behind her.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

No. James, I know. James said goodbye to Virginia, gave her a big old hug. And you know, she's crying, giving him his things, and he hugs her brother Elliot, getting on the horse, onto his horse, and rode away.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Virginia is the saddest thing ever.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

I know it's really sad. Virginia walked back to camp where her mother was. She wrote later of the experience, I had cried until I had hardly strength to walk. But when we reached camp and I saw the distress of my mother, with the little ones clinging around her and no arm to lean on, it seemed suddenly to make a woman of me. I realized that I must be strong and help mama bear her sorrows. The Donner party continued west slowly. The settlers were now walking alongside the wagons to help the oxen spare their energy. On October 12th, the party lost another 21 oxen. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

They were shot by nearby Native Americans, making the total number of oxen lost to about a hundred. Wow. On October 16th, the party made it to the Truckee River, marking the entrance to the Sierra and Nevada mountain range. Finally, on the 19th of October, do you guys remember uh the two men that were sent out to get relief? Yes. On the 19th, Charles Stanton found the party. He arrived with two Native American guides, seven mules, and a whole lot of food. Oh Stanton had also brought news that snow was not expected to block the mountain range for another month. Despite the last words. Let this moment be happy. Despite the weather being extremely cold with light snow. With resupplies and news of an open mountain range, the Donner Party felt it was safe to rest for another five days before their journey into the mountains. It's way too long. And that's where I'm going to leave it. It's way too long.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

I'm going to leave it there for 30 minutes and go.

unknown 56:39

Right.

SPEAKER_05 56:40

It's one of those things like, okay. You just look at your watch, like, all right. Yeah, it's just we're taking a 30 and then we're moving on. Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Like we need to go. But that's where I'm going to leave part one. Oh man. We're going to leave it outside of the Sierra Nevada mountain range in mid-October.

SPEAKER_05 57:00

Oh God.

unknown 57:01

Man.

SPEAKER_05 57:02

It's just it's just so funny. Well, that's not funny. It's it's just ironic.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

It's that this.

SPEAKER_05 57:08

Yeah, yeah, it's a great time. But it's just so ironic that that whole location, that Donner's Pass and Truckee and all that stuff, like that is the bane of the existence of truck drivers in the winter trying to get through all of that. And even with developed roads and chains and these fancy trucks and whatnot, it's it's still a nightmare. It's rough. In fact, I when I first became a driver manager, we had a driver who was stuck there in January for like two weeks. He couldn't his truck was snowed in and he was just living there for like two weeks. He built like all these little snowmen all over the place. Like, what else are you supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Wilson.

SPEAKER_05 57:59

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

Wilson in the mountains.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

We're gonna get to a lot of snow and other things in the next part.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

I hate it. I hate snow. I hate the cold. I live in Arizona. In southern Arizona.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Right. You're gonna want to leave stay living here after part two is over.

SPEAKER_05 58:24

Oh yeah. After part two, it's like I'm not traveling ever again.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Yeah, I'm never moving.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

I'm actually staying in my house, not leaving. And we don't even ride an oxen anymore.

SPEAKER_05 58:37

And we're not taking our wagon through the McDonald's drive-thru. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

So I ask you guys again, have you ever taken a shortcut that didn't work out?

SPEAKER_05 58:50

Well, I don't know. Looking back at it.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

So not like that.

SPEAKER_05 58:53

Like looking back at it, like I think I took the right one. Yeah, what's gonna happen here? Um, yes, I've taken a shortcut that didn't work out, but not as bad as this.

SPEAKER_01 59:08

It's rough. I've definitely not taken a shortcut that killed what 80 oxen. How many oxen? Almost 80 oxen? 100 oxen. Oh my god. And how many peoples?

SPEAKER_00 59:24

I am not going to spoil that. So far, two.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Okay, fine. Sure. But still, two some.

SPEAKER_05 59:33

Yep. And then like you're banishing people at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

Yeah, it's just oh no, I'm sorry, three. So three people.

SPEAKER_05 59:41

Oh, yeah, because there was a lady with tuberculosis, and then there was the dude with tuberculosis.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

And then the guy who got stabbed.

SPEAKER_05 59:48

Oh. And then the guy that got stabbed, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

Mr. Snyder.

SPEAKER_05 59:54

He found out that he's allergic to knots.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Yeah. He has this reaction where he just dies. Sorry then. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:08

No, that sounds like one of those like prescription medication commercials where like you know, side effects can include blindness and loss of hearing and uncontrollable rectal hemorrhaging and brief bouts of death.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Spontaneous combustion.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:26

It may result in men getting pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

It reminds me of mean girls. You will get pregnant and you will die.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

So that's part one, guys. We've got double decor bedazzle wagons. And uh lots of shortcuts that aren't short. So stick around for part two.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:48

And a lot of famous last words.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

And a lot of famous last words over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:54

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

And a lot of scenes legit. A lot of legitimacy.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

Yeah. Hey, check out this map on this napkin. And if we go where this little coffee stain is at, that's a shortcut, and that'll get us right through. So we just gotta find the coffee stain on this trail, and we're good to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

That's that that's like when they went up to the peak, and Hastings' like, just go that way. He's like, that one'll be good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

It's like, you know, my eye twitched on the left, so I think we should go right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

They should have gone right, let's be real.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

Alright, guys. Stick around for part two. That one will be more of a doozy than part one. So wait for that one to come out.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

Yeah. And um Yeah, I need a break from the heartbreak.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Yeah, take a break.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:54

Actually, what we should we should probably do an episode on that that plane with the soccer players that crashed in the Andes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:03

And they were there for like, what is it, like 200 days or something wild.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

We do have a couple palette cleansers lined up and then we can do that. We do have some palette cleansers. So after palette cleansers, we can do that. But yes, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:17

I know, I know I'm I'm I'm working on a project that involves the polar ice caps melting, and all of humanity is living in a giant ocean planet.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:30

Sweet.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:31

And it was turned into a movie that absolutely tanked. It was almost like it's almost like the whole world was nothing but water.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Like a water world?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

Yeah. Is there is there a Mad Max meets the ocean?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Yeah. Is there a guy by the name of Kevin Costner? Or who looks suspiciously like Kevin? Kevin Bacon. No, it's Kevin Bacon.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:59

That's it. Perfect. They they they effectually call that movie uh Kevin's Gate.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:04

Because it was one of these things where like Kevin Costner was he was the only one calling the shots. And he had a really, really good friend that was the director that he absolutely alienated and he just kind of like gave up. Like everybody was giving up on this movie, especially when it was already like 20 million dollars over budget and and all that. But yeah, it's gonna be a prime example that if if you feel like you're walking into a dumpster fire, throwing more money at it isn't gonna be guaranteed to make it better.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

Nice, it's gonna make it worse. It's gonna make it worse. Yes, usually money's flammable. I'm not working on a palette cleanser, just so you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Like that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

You're you'll need a palette cleanser after mine, and I'm very sorry, but that's what I'm here for.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Exactly. I'm glad I'm glad for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:56

Are you doing a true crime thing, or are you gonna do a Kara and not tell me anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

Yeah. I'm not gonna tell you anything, but it is gonna be true crime related, and I will tell you that someone is gonna die. I will have to give a little warning in the beginning. Um, but you know, a lot of people die in these unfortunate failures, so I we'll fight we'll we'll find some really great. So far, my favorite is Sebastian wagon.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

I like the I like the wagon underneath it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:30

Right. McDonald's post. The thing that's on a chain and it's like all jacked up and mangled, because there's a wagon, like a canistoga stuck to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:39

And then and then the the little lady that's talking out of the intercoms, just like, and then uh on that note.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Do we have any housekeeping before we go?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:54

And then no, my wagon is stuck. No, I don't want a sausage egg McMuffin. I need help getting out of this this stupid drive-thru. Okay, we're just gonna walk from here. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

All right, well, come back for part two. Come back for part two and more wagon jokes, I guess. I'm afraid about the other sets that might come out of this, but come back for the wagon jokes. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:38

Well, it but uh but there is housekeeping.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

I tried to get the housekeeping joke.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:43

I know, I know, I derailed it, but um yeah, I know. But yeah, be sure, guys, to tell friends about the show. Try to find family members, try to show them how to actually get to a podcast. Because everybody's got that ant that yeah, well, everybody's got that ant that like still doesn't know what a podcast is. And I just found out that today, or actually as of like last week, there are more people in America that know about podcasting than there are people that don't. So, in other words, we're over 50% of the population of America has listened to or does listen to podcasts. So this is like a uh uh a great opportunity to get people onto our show. So, yeah, grab their phones and uh tell them to go there. Uh, feel free to send us an email at the daysdumpsterfier at gmail.com. Uh, we will respond, and uh, we're always open to ideas, especially keep me in the loop because everybody's bent on like keeping me in the dark about episode ideas for some odd reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

So I like surprises, it's fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:00

Yeah, yeah, I guess it's fun. I don't, but yeah, it's it's like a really bad Christmas present.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

Like I know this one was like a bad Christmas present, but I I felt like when you figured out what it was, you got a little bit excited.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:14

I could hear it excited. Yes, it was like that light bulb goes off. Like oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

That's what I wanted. Sorry, I'm derailing it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:24

I'm derailing it.

unknown 1:07:25

Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:26

But yeah, uh send us an email. Uh we're on the uh we're on Instagram, and uh be sure to hit up our website, thedaysdumpsterfire.com. Uh check out Kara's artwork on there. Uh, especially this wagon one that I'm certain is going to be very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:48

It's gonna be my favorite of all of her.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:52

And maybe she'll have that wagon being pulled by two like Highland cows in the desert. And they're like super emo. They're like dude blowing the bangs away.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Wait, can you though? Wait, do a separate one because we gotta do like I'll I'll figure it out. Um, do a separate one where we've got emos.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

Okay, got it. Yeah, anyways. We'll work showing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

We gotta visit.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:23

So, but yeah, be sure to check us out on everything. Uh send us a message, hit us up, uh let us know if you have any ideas. Um, let us know if uh you yourself have ever tried taking a shortcut and that not end so well. Um well in all fairness, we know it ended well because you're alive to be able to tell us what happened, so that's good. Big plus.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

And unless you are Virginia Reed, then I will cry. And I don't know if I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

I will not spoil anything for you. Yeah, that's her name.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:57

Got it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

It's Virginia Reed.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:59

Oh, she's like the 13-year-old that now has to become a woman. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

That's her. We love her.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:04

Okay. So if she dies, then we're all gonna get pissed.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

Oh, I'm gonna be so angry. Oh, I'm gonna throw knuckles.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:13

I mean, technically this is 1840, so she she's gonna be dead anyways, but I'm not gonna fight Mother Nature.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

But like, I guess you could try to fight hasties.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:25

Okay. Yeah, it's fine. In in the double decker.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

In the double decker. Bottoms up.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:30

There's there's a boxing ring inside this double decker. It's like a Harry Potter wagon. You walk in there and it's just this massive opulence.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

Actually, that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

Anywho, we're gonna let you guys go because it's late and we're spiraling.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:50

All right, guys, keep it a hot mess, and we'll see you on the next one.

unknown 1:09:54

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:55

Or don't.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:56

Great.