Donner, Party of 90! Fire Part 2 - Episode 53

Check it out! Kara, Deja, and Ed got the second part of Donner, Party of 90! published for the world to listen to. In this episode, Kara continues the discussion into the famous (and very... taboo) Donner Party where 90 men, women, and children ventured out west in 1846 to make a new life in California. However, after being informed about a supposed "short cut" the party got stuck in winter weather west of what we know to be Reno, Nevada. With no hope of discovery let alone rescue, the Donner party hunkers down to ride out the winter and hopefully there will be enough people alive to actually rescue when the snow melts. 

In this episode, Kara tells the story of the Party of Forlorn Hope, which consisted of 15 men, women, and children that attempted to crawl their way out from the Donner party to try and get help. However, this group got stuck in what was suppose to be a two week adventure ballooned into 33 days! Instead of finding someone to help them, it seemed as though they only found death, and he took a huge toll on the party. As a result, the Party of Forlorn Hope had to make impossible decision and commit unfathomable act to survive when people were dying around them!

If you haven't listened to Part 1 yet, check it out here: Donner, Party of 90! Fire -Episode 52.

If you want to see previous episodes that Kara, Deja, and Ed have done over the years, check it out here. You can also see Kara's artwork that is inspired by the podcast topics at www.thedaysdumpsterfire.com 

Lastly, be sure to email the gang here at The Day's Dumpster Fire at thedaysdumpsterfire@gmail.com and provide suggestions for future episode ideas or even trashcan fire!

Stay tuned because your favorite hot messes are working on Part 3 and Ed has a banger of a pallet cleanser coming up shortly!

Hey before you go! 

If have ideas for future episodes that you want Kara and Ed to look into, email them at thedaysdumpsterfire@gmail.com. They would love to hear from you!

You can also send them a text message by clicking on the link at the top. 

Be sure to head on over to www.thedaysdumpsterfire.com for the ever growing library of historical dumpster fires. 

Check us out on the ol Instagrams!
https://www.instagram.com/thedaysdumpsterfire/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello everybody, this is Kara.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

This is Daja. And this is Ed.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

And this is your day's dumpster fire. Where we don't celebrate humanity's successes.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

But it's most fantastic failures. Oh Lord. We're doing it. For some odd reason, Deja, like, on the little like wave thingy here that shows your volume, you were like clipping. I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I don't. I hope everything's okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yeah, well, I'll figure it out in post. So yeah, we've got a uh a uh a juicy topic today. Um yeah, this is gonna be a mouthful and maybe uh maybe uh something to chew over in your head. Um yeah, no, this one is uh with a little bit of salt, pepper, and garlic uh makes it more palatable, I guess. If you even have salt, pepper, and garlic where you're stuck with these guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Get it all out now, because you're gonna feel a little really bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Oh no, no, no. I'm I'm very well aware of the uh foot and mouth uh scenarios. I've gotten used to it. So so yeah, uh this is uh part two of the uh donner party that Kara kept from everybody for so long and kind of like dropped the bombshell on us on the last episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Um and just kept giggling about it. He's just like I know, and it's gonna be so you guys are gonna love it, and it's oh yeah, just trolling us the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I've been working on it since March.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah. Well, and the best part about it is uh I think it's a double decker wagon.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Like through the drive-thru.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Uh-huh. Yeah, yep. Getting stuck in a McDonald's drive-thru. So if you have no idea what we're talking about, uh that makes all of us uh you might want to go back and listen to what is it, episode 52, which is part one of this hot mess. Um, that way you can kind of get an idea of you know, like what we're talking about here, because this could easily balloon into like what another two parts.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah, I'm gonna have this one, and then there's gonna be one more after this. So it'll be a total of three parts. Three parts, three parts.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Um I feel like you're gonna get into recipes eventually. Like you are doing a deep dive in this.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Um I do want to put logging off. I'm I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that out of respect for the people who lived through this. I am not doing that.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Well, they're all dead, so we can make fun of them.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Um I did want to throw out an advisory, um, which we've never actually done before. But after finishing it, I do want to give listeners a heads up. This is probably the darkest episode we've done so far. It does involve uh children in peril. It does involve cannibalism, it does involve a lot of death and starvation. Um, so just forewarning and giving you a heads up that it is very dark. There's lots of things that are involved that can be uncomfortable or considered taboo. Um, so just be forewarned before we move on.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, I think it's a little triggering, yeah. Well, and more importantly, I think this is gonna be one of those episodes uh or topics where once you're kind of through it, um you're even though you may be struggling through some stuff, like maybe like, hey, you just got laid off from your job, or you know, you had to take uh a pay cut or whatever, you this these episodes should help in terms of like at least you're not in this situation. Like you should be pretty comfortable with your life at the end of of all this. So, like, at least you have that going for you on top of like aside from all the triggers, and there's gonna be a lot of ooh, e yikes. I feel like that's gonna be our response. Yeah, like you ate what? Oh yeah. So Kara. Yes, why don't you give us a quick little recap? You don't want me doing the recap because my recaps are longer than the actual episode initially. So let's kind of like give people a uh refresher of what happened.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, I'll take it for like a movie meltdown like into episodes, you know, if for your recaps. Yes. Like I write a book review.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, like I my book reviews are like longer than the actual book that I'm reviewing. That's but that's about what I do.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I know usually we start these with uh me asking you questions about your life or whatever, but um I'm actually just going to ask one question and I don't want you to answer it unless it's for everybody listening, so not just you guys, but what would you do? That's the question that I want running through your head for this part and the next part as we go through it. Because it's one thing to look at this situation and say, ew, gross, that's terrible. It's another thing to put yourself in that situation. So just think about it. But let's start with the recap. Originally from Illinois, the Donner Pant part, the Donner family, the Reeds, and other families decided to make the trip to California. Avid readers of the book called The Immigrant's Guide to Oregon in California by Lansford Hastings provided a shortcut to California that would cut at least 300 miles off of their journey. So he said. They left Independence, Missouri a month later than they should have. While the first stretch of the trip was smooth sailing, the cutoff ended up costing the Donner Party 150 miles and an extra month of time. Low on resources and tight on that time, the group traversed the Salt Lake Desert and staggered out towards the Sierra Nevada Mountains in October, with winter on its way and very little resources and supplies. So we ended at the Sierra Nevada mountain range with our friend Charles Stanton bringing in some much needed resources and supplies. And we will start on chapter five called The Summit. Here we go. It's rock and roll. Spooky.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

It sounds like spooky.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

The summit. The summit. Under normal circumstances, the site of the Sierra Nevada mountain range would be a cause for celebration. It marks the final stretch of the trail to Sutter's Fort, California. The party began the trip through the mountain pass in late October, which is very late. Stanton's return with resources and their new Native American guides named Luis and Salvador gave them hope that they would make it through the pass despite signs of an incoming storm. On October 31st, 1846, the axle on George Donner's wagon broke. Due to the lack of resources, after the trek through the desert, he was forced to cut down timber and fashion a new axle on his own. He told the rest of his party to continue on without him, promising he would catch up once the axle was replaced. While cutting the wood, however, George slashed his hand open, making the work even harder and slower, losing a lot of precious time. And it was a pretty solid gash from what I understand. Like it was a bad deal.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Well, this is also a time where like a gash could be a death sentence. Yeah. Because infection would set in and uh completely wrought you. Yeah. So even by today's standards, a huge gash on your hand is like, hey, we need to get that treated. And back then it's just like, uh, we'll just put this dirty, sweaty rag over it and move on.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

That's kind of what he had to do, considering he had to finish making the axle.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Again, people were more manly back then.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

I guess that's fair. His j his brother was also helping him out, so Jacob sued with him. The rest of the party, though, listened to George and moved ahead without him. Moving through the past had begun to snow. Virginia Donner, Virginia Donner, Virginia Reed, described it in her writing, stating, All trails and roads were covered, and her only guide was the summit, which it seemed we would never reach. Despair drove many nearly frantic. Each family tried to cross the mountains but found it impossible. When it was seen that the wagons could not be dragged through the snow, their goods and provisions were packed on oxen and another start was made, men and women walking in the snow up to their waists, carrying their children in their arms and trying to drive their cattle. The Indians said that they could find no road, so a halt was called, and Stanton went ahead with the guides and came back and reported that we could get across if we kept right on, but that it would be impossible if snow fell. He was in favor of a forced march until the other side of the summit would be reached, but some of our party were so tired and exhausted with the day's labor that they declared that they could not take another step. So the few who knew the danger that the night might bring yielded to the yielded to the many and we camped within three miles of the summit. Stanton and one of the Native American guides went ahead to the summit after camp was made to see if passing through was feasible. They did make it to the summit, but they were forced to return due to the weather conditions. Upon their return, the settlers were exhausted and hungry, and they conceded to make camp near Truckee Lake with the rest of the settlers. With some luck, the Donner party at Truckee Lake, now named Donner Lake, found some shelter in three small cabins that were built by settlers who came by before. The cabins were named after the families that took shelter in them, the Reed Graves Cabin, the Murphy Cabin, and the Breen Cabin. Between the three cabins, about sixty people were sheltered there. Six miles north, the Donner family made it to Alder Creek Valley before making their own camp, being forced to stop due to the harsh weather conditions. They created makeshift tents using their wagon and material they had with them. Liana Donner, who was about twelve years old at the time, later wrote, We had no time to build a cabin. The snow came in so suddenly that we barely had time to pitch a tent and put up a brush shed. As it were, one side of it was open. This brush shed was covered with pine bows and then covered with rubber coats, quilts, etc. The Doners and the main party at the lake camped out overnight in hopes that the weather would die down and they would be able to make it through the pass the next morning. Sadly, they awoke November 1st to a wall of snow five to six feet tall. They were stuck, forced to wait out the winter in the Sierra Nevadas, and only 150 miles away from Sutter's Fort. They traveled all that way to get stuck 150 miles away.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Only 150 miles away.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah, that's like five days walking.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Five to ten, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

And it was so crazy is that I when I worked in trucking, this would happen even to this day. Like you would get to trucky and then you had to gamble, right? You would you would either turn around in trucky and go back to Reno, or you would try to go through that pass and overnight, yeah, you can get five to six feet. And wasn't there one time, Kara, that we got notification like there was gonna be like 15 feet of snow that was gonna be dropped on Donner's Pass overnight? Like, oh, that's a lot of snow.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

It's a lot of snow. In fact, there's a uh memorial statue over in Donner's Pass, and uh they purposely made the height of the statue the same height of the snow. I think it's like 12 or 15 feet. It's pretty impressive. You can see a picture of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Really? So it's like this giant statue that's just like way up in the air during the summer, and then No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

It's like a 15-foot-tall statue from the ground to mark the height of the snow from the ground up.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Okay, so it's not like some dude like pulling a hand cart 12 feet up in the air.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

It's the whole thing is Yeah, the whole thing's like 15 feet tall to show how deep the snow is. Yeah. I mean, that'd be that'd be pretty neat.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

That means they have a very good idea of what it's like there.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Right. Over on Sutter's Fort, James Reed stumbled into town in late October. Remember from the last part, James Reed was the uh the father who was banished from uh the party and had to move on on his own. So he actually made it to Sutter's Fort in October because he could travel a lot faster. As soon as he arrived and had the chance to recover, he began to get a search party together with supplies for his family and the party that had banished him. Only one person agreed to come with him, William McCutcheon, the same man who traveled with him when he was banished. The men left in early November, but the rescue mission was cut short after running into a wall of snow when they reached the higher altitude of the Sierra Nevadas, unable to reach the people on the other side. Reed returned to Sutter's Fort failing in his first mission, but he refused to give up. Again, he attempted to put together a rescue party, but this time no one agreed to come until winter cleared up in February. On top of that, he found out that the U.S. was officially at war with Mexico, with many men heading south to Los Angeles to fight. Reed remained hopeful, and he agreed to fight in that war, and in return, he made a deal and he would have access to men and resources to find his family when they were available. He'd fight the Battle of Santa Clara before organizing another rescue party later in February.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Wait, so he he had to like go fight in this war, and then like, hey, these people banished me, but I want to go rescue them. Or I'm assuming the priority was his family. So he had to go fight in a war and then come back, and then pretty much he would get the resources to go.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah, because what happened was he he ended up in Sutter's fort, and at the same time the Mexican-American War was breaking out, all of the men were going south to go fight the war, and there was literally nobody left to help him get there. So he talked to Sutter, the guy who was in charge of the fort, and he's like, All right, I'll tell you what, you help me fight this war, and I'll get you whatever you need.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Dude, that sucks.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, it's pretty rough.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Did you imagine like go fighting a war? That's stressful enough, let alone like knowing that your family is stranded in dozens of feet of snow.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Like Yeah, like he tried. He tried to go out there in November with McCutcheon and a few other guys, and they traveled like four or five days up into the summit, and they they reached, they got pretty far, and then they reached a wall of snow that same night.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Probably that double decker wagon that was stuck in a McDonald's and they couldn't get around it.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Oh, they left that in Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

It's still sitting there to this day.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Right? It's still there. I think people have actually looked for it.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah. I think people have actually looked for it, but the I'm sure it was, you know, taken for parts or something.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, something like that would probably get broken down into two wagons.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Right. Chapter six Trapped. Over several days after being snowed in, members of the Donner Party would make various attempts to get through the pass. They would always end in failure with settlers being pushed back by snow and winter weather. Some were forced to abandon wagons they took with them, taking shelter back at the cabins by a lake or makeshift tents nearby. Families began to slaughter and eat the cattle that they had brought with them, burying what they didn't eat immediately in the snow to preserve the precious beef. And they started to realize that they were probably stuck there until spring, so they had to figure out how to ration out as much food as possible. Six miles away, the Donner family was in a very similar situation, but they didn't have access to as much cattle as the rest of the party. They would need to ration out their food even more carefully if they wanted to make it till spring. One settler, William Foster, had brought a rifle with him. He was able to bring down a bear, which was celebrated for a short while. However, when there were eighty-one hungry people to feed and only one bear and a couple of ducks, the celebration was pretty short-lived. On November 20th, Patrick Breen, one of the fathers and party members on the Donner Lake side of things at the cabins, began keeping a diary. His diary would become the only written contemporary source of the events during the winter. Other sources were written years later by those who lived through it or interviews that have been conducted afterwards. His first entry is as follows Friday, November the twentieth, eighteen forty six. Came to this place on the thirty first of last of last month that it snowed. We went out to the past, the snow so deep we were unable to find the road, then turned back to the shanty on the lake. We now have killed most of our cattle, having to stay here until next spring. It snowed during the space of eight days with little intermission. And then I'm just gonna keep reading because I think he can tell it better than I can. Thursday the twenty sixth began to snow yesterday in the evening. Now rains or sleet of mountainers don't start today. The wind about west, wet and muddy. And it's typed out and written the same way he wrote it. So I apologize for my slow reading of it. I have to kind of slowly go through it.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

But Friday Translate the 1800s of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yes, exactly. Friday 27 continues to snow. The ground not covered with wind dole prospect for crossing the mountains. Saturday 28th, snowing fast. Now about 10 o'clock, snow eight or ten inches deep. Soft, wet snow. Weather, not cold with wind.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I think that W stands for west. Yeah, coming from the west.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Sunday 29th, still snowing. There's a lot of snow. Now about three feet deep. With wind west, killed my last oxen. Today we'll skin them tomorrow. Gave another yoke to the fosters. Hard to get wood. So just those few entries alone, you can kind of get an idea of what life was like. It was just a lot of wind, a lot of snow. We're slowly killing any animal we can for food. Uh they're taking parts off of wagons and other things to make firewood because it's hard to get wood from the trees because of how deep the snow is.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

So well when when you're when you're writing in your journal like the fine details of the snow.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Like, oh, it's soft and squishy today with the certain melange to it, and you know, now it's like five feet deep, and you know, Billy made yellow snow and threw it at everybody. Like when you are writing so much about the snow, you know there is not a whole lot of other stuff going on.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Well, I think if it's partially that in the fact that they knew that the snow was so detrimental to the reason that they're stuck there.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

And the person that recommended taking the shortcut, is he with this group?

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Oh no. No, he made it, he made it to to California back in like September.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Because I feel like he would have been the first one killed. He was with this group.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

No, he would he safely arrived in California, I think, in September.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Got it. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

What a douche.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Honestly.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

He got to California, he set up his used car dealership over there, and now it's just like a sleaze bag selling crappy cars.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Right. He's like, I don't know what you guys were talking about. It worked fairly. You took the wrong shortcut.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

You should have taken the right shortcut.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Remember that area that I pointed out to you from the top of the mountain? You should have gone there, which they did.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

If you would have worked harder, you probably would have made it.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah, you turned left at the wrong tree.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Right?

unknown 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

The ignorance.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

The ignorance. The party would spend November rationing resources amongst themselves. Their cattle, their wagons, anything that would ease the hunger. By December, resources began to dwindle. Um, and during this time, too, I will say that that there were several attempts, like I said before, but throughout the entire month, there were several attempts to try to get through the summit, through the pass, but it never worked. Um Breen wrote on December 1st, our cattle all killed but three or four of them. The horses and Stanton's mules, gone. Supposed the lot supposed lost in the snow, no hopes of finding them alive. So we are really, really short on animals now. The people camped in the snow began to mix what little meat they had with anything of substance, leather, twigs, sticks, bones. Before the lake had frozen over, attempts were made to catch the fish, but always proved unsuccessful. Eventually the lake froze over and that resource was taken away as well. So it's uh getting pretty getting pretty dire over here.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Well, and I'm assuming for water they're eating snow.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yes, which brings down their core temperature.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yep, it meaning you have to have more calories to maintain your body temperature. So, like it's almost like when you're stranded in the middle of the ocean, like don't drink the ocean water, but it because if you do, it is worse for you than not drinking it. In a lot of respects, just eating snow is is like really bad for you if you if you don't have a way of melting it down. Did they have like any sort of shelter? Like, were they able to build like shanties with the wagons, or were they just like out in the open?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

There were three cabins that were already built that they were staying in. Um, so the people at the lake were staying in the three cabins and they would share it amongst themselves. So it there were like 30 people per cabin when this first went down. No, not 30, that's too much. 20 people per cabin when this first went down. And then there were 10 people six miles away at Alder Creek where the donors were, and there they could only set up tents with their wagons, they couldn't set up an entire cabin.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah, I didn't know that they were that that spread out.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah, yeah, they were pretty far apart.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

And and the important thing is that the people that were on the the the lakeside cabins, they kept it within fire code. Because as soon as you exceed like 25 people, then the fire marshal shows up and shuts the whole thing down, and then they're screwed. But if you keep it under 25, you don't have to worry about fire code.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Well, I don't know about fire code. Those cabins were pretty pretty bad. I they were in rough shape, they weren't like fancy cabins that we have now, they were literally like log structures tied together with some sticks that were linked in log cabin kind of a thing, but the butt same durability, yeah. Not even that great, probably. They were bad.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Screw fire code.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, there is no fire code. And at this point, too, they're like making s soups pretty much. So they were also melting water down, but they were usually using it for soups and melting down bones and into like a goo and eating the goo bones.

unknown 23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Trying to render as m whatever they can.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yep. That's kind of where we're at. On December 15th, one of Reed's teamsters, Bayless Williams, had died of malnutrition. He would be the first person to die at the camps at Truckee Lake. Later that same day at Alder Creek, Jacob Donner had died in his tent, leaving his wife and children with his brother and his family. Um, it was never recorded uh what he died from, so we can't really say. But his heart stopped beating. Yes. It did. Some people say it was malnutrition, some people say it was exposure, some people say it was illness. I don't know, but he he also died.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

When you haven't eaten in weeks, like you know, a mosquito bite could do you in, kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Right. It's a bad deal.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Seeing the conditions deteriorate rapidly, William Eddy, who was a member of the party as well. I mean, obviously, but at this point we're just members of the party. But William Eddie, Franklin Graves, and other members began to plan another attempt to find their way through the pass. Their goal was to reach the fort in California, gather resources, and rescue to return other members of the party by all means necessary. Like they this was it. They're going to do it. So that brings us to chapter seven. Snowshoes. Graves grew up in Vermont and knew how to make snowshoes. After multiple attempts at marching through the snow, the settlers knew that they would need help. Without them, they would sink into three to six feet of snow, but the snowshoes helped them stand a little bit. Graves fashioned the snowshoes from raw hide and small metal rings found on the wagons. He then taught other people how to make them, and by early December, Graves and his helpers had made about 15 pairs of snowshoes for their mission. Seventeen members of the party that were camped at the lake volunteered. So nobody from the Alder Creek camp in the over where the Doners were. Nine men, five women, and three children between the ages of 12 to 17. So more teenagers than children, but they're minors, so we'll go with it. William Eddie was a 28-year-old carriage maker. William Foster and his wife Sarah. William Pike, and these are the people who went. Sorry, I should have been more specific. But first we have William Eddy, 28-year-old carriage maker. Then William Foster and his wife Sarah. We have William Pike, Antonio, a Mexican teamster, Luis and Salvador, the two Native American guides, somebody named Harriet Lemuel, who was 13 years old, and William Murphy, the youngest, three siblings, with Harriet being the oldest at 18. Franklin Graves was the oldest volunteer at 58 years old. His two daughters, Mary Graves and Sarah Fosdick, would travel with him. Sarah's husband also volunteered for the journey. And then we have a 17-year-old Teamster, Noah James, and Charles Berger joined, as well as Amanda McCutcheon, the wife of William McCutcheon. And uh just these these some of these people were leaving their infant children. They're leaving their toddler children, they're leaving. Remember, this party is a lot of kids. So a lot of these people had families that they were leaving behind in the cabins in hopes that they would be able to come back to just feed them.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

So the so these volunteers, these were people that were going to try to like make a break for it and try to come back with help. Or okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

So they were used the snowshoes that they made to try to make it to California and come back to help everybody else. In preparation for this trip, the group packed six days worth of food, preserved beef, some little bit of coffee. William Foster brought his rifle, one hatchet, a few matches, and a tiny bit of sugar, along with a thin blanket for each person. That's all they brought. That's all they had. Two members, Charles Berger and 10-year-old William Murphy, had volunteered to travel without snowshoes. As you know, Wheeling made 15, we've got 17. William Eddie brought a diary. So that's how we know what happened on this trip. The group called themselves the Party of Forlorn Hope. Armed with me.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

You gotta come up with a better name than that.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

That's what they called it. That's what they call it.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

That does not incite hope. That doesn't incite confidence. Absolutely. This is like the the the party of despair.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Like I know. It kind of it kind of tells you where their mental state was. And I will say, after I read the whole thing, I I did have to look back and and and ask, like, did they call themselves Forlorn Hope, or was it Forlorn Hope after all of this happened?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yeah, did history call it that?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

And from what I can tell, they called themselves Forlorn Hope. Like, like I said, I could be wrong if I am, correct me on that. But from what I was able to find.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

The party of human popsicles.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Mm-hmm. Deja liked that one. Armed with meager amounts of food, thin blankets, and a hope for a future in California. A forlorn one. The party left on the morning of December 16th, 1846. When they left, the members found it difficult to walk in the snowshoes, as you can imagine. They were large and awkward, and many of them have never used snowshoes before. Making it more difficult was the fact that the snow was very fresh, so it was loose and super soft, making making them sink into the snow by at least a foot, even with the snowshoes on. So it was it was an adjustment, but we did it. Not far from the camp. Charles Berger and William Murphy realized that the truck would be nearly impossible for them to without the proper gear, so without the snowshoes. And they both returned to the camp before they got too far away. So now we're down to 15. While the snowshoes did make walking difficult, it was a minor adjustment compared to the weather conditions that they prepared to contend with. The party made it about four miles before evening came. They made camp and a fire before setting in settling in for the night. From where they sat, they could still see the cabins and fire smoke in the distance. Mrs. McCutcheon, Sarah Fostic, and a few others in the party had children they left behind, so it's easy to imagine that they were longing for their children, looking at the smoke coming from the cabins and thinking about the place they had left in search of their own survival as well as the survival of their families.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Four miles, that was that was in one day. Yep. So four miles and all that snow. Yep. That is pretty good. Yeah, that's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yep. I don't know if I said this last episode, but I wouldn't make it. I don't think I'd make it either. I think I'd be food.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Uh no, I would be the food.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

My asthma would be going crazy.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

I I would be the food. I would be like, I I I would be the feast for everybody. There's there's enough for me to go around.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

The next day, the party crossed the summit, which proved to be more difficult than the day before. The snow reached a staggering 12 feet deep, making the journey treacherous and slow, as the party needed to be careful crossing without sinking too deep in. Despite the day's difficulties, they made it six miles before stopping for the night. Mary Graves later wrote in a letter to historian Charles McGlashin, which I read his book, about her experience on December 17th. That's the one that I've been reading. So, okay, just side note, I'm sorry. The Charles McGlashin history of the Donner Party is that giant wall of text you guys have been seeing me read. It was written in the 1880s. Um, even today it's considered like one of the more comprehensive uh histories of the Donner Party, but it is a little bit uh sugarcoated with like pretty language and stuff, but it's interesting all the same. Anyway, so Mary Graves said later about her experience on December 17th. We had a very slavish day's travel, I think I'm saying that right, Slavish, slavish, climbing into the divide. Nothing of interest occurred until reaching the summit. The scenery was too grand for me to pass without notice, the changes being so great. Walking now on the loose snow and now stepping on a hard, slick rock a number of hundreds of yards in length. Being a little in the rear of the party, I had a chance to observe the company ahead, trudging along with packs on their backs. It reminded me of some Norwegian fur company amongst the icebergs. My shoes were oxbows split in two and rawhide strings woven in something in the form of old fashioned split bottom chairs. Our clothes were of the bloomer costume and generally were made of flannel. Well, do I remember a remark of one of the companies made here that we were about as near heaven as we could get. We camped a little on the west side of the summit the second night. I just thought that was um an interesting description that she wrote or talked about.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah, as near heaven as we could get. I feel like there's a lot of different meanings to that.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

I interpreted it as they were so high in the mountains near the sky, not necessarily like this is a beautiful day in heaven.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

No, what what I was thinking was like what you're saying, like they're like so high up in the air, like they could reach out and touch God, or they were just like, uh, you're gonna die, and uh you're really close to the pearly white gates kind of a thing. I feel like that could be interpreted it could in a number of ways.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah, yeah, definitely in a different number of ways. And it'd be she would be an interesting person to talk to, Mary Graves.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

After making camp, the group drank a very small amount of coffee and ate a teeny tiny tiny bit of ration of beef before laying down to rest in the cold, soft snow. And when I say tiny, it was described as like two fingers. That's how much they got. So if you put two fingers together, that was your beef stick. That's your ration. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Sorry, there's so many jokes I can make there that I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Anyway, on the third day, the snow was blinding, especially once they got over the summit, and the sun was shining in full force, reflecting off the snow. The party of Forlorn Hope traveled five miles in silence. During the walk, Charles Stanton, the man who had made it to Sutter's fort and returned with supplies, had begun to suffer from burning and itchy eyes. By the time he had gotten through the fifth mile, he fell an hour behind the rest of the group. He had lost his eyesight due to snow blindness. On december nineteenth, it snowed most of the day. The party traveled another five miles before camping for the evening. The group of settlers built a fire and settled in for the night. Again, Charles Stanton marched into camp about an hour after they stopped, and during the walk he fell behind. The next morning Stanton sat near the fire, smoking his pipe, still unable to see. Mary Graves came to talk with him as the rest of the group began to continue their hike through the snow. She asked him as if he she asked him if he was coming, and he replied that he should. And she left him, smoking by the fire, following her father and sister as they left the makeshift makeshift camp. He was never seen again. That was the last time he was seen alive.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

So they just left him there to They thought he was coming.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

She asked him, like, are you coming with? And he said, You know, I should. She said, Okay. And she followed her family. And the past two days, he's been falling an hour behind.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

So I can understand why they thought that he'd be following.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Well, and it's crazy, like, nobody stayed with him to help him or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

It's just Yeah. At least that's what was written down. It could be that maybe somebody stayed, or maybe there was more conversation, like, oh, go on without me, I'll be I'll be there, or something of that nature.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

That's true. And this was written, what, 40 years after? Um The events you said like 1880s.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

This is Mary Graves, so this was her probably in the interview. So yeah, I'd say like 30, 40 years after.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

So there could have been some conversations.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

A lot of things could happen to one's memory. Yeah. During all that.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

The remaining snowshoers traveled four miles that day, continuously looking back, looking for Stanton. They slept that night hoping that he would come back overnight. When they woke up the next morning, the snow was estimated to have reached 15 feet. It was silently concluded that Stanton would probably not be coming back. So we're down to 14. For those of you keeping track at home.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

I feel like that scene from um uh Fellowship with a Ring where they're trying to go through that mountain pass.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Then then they are all they're like, uh, let's go through the minds of Moria and like That's a good idea. Yeah, what could possibly go wrong there? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

What could go wrong?

SPEAKER_00 37:20

None of that going on here, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

No trolls or orcs or anything. No, no elves.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Alright, well then I'm gonna. Unfortunately, there's no caves. I'm sorry. That's what I was here for.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Before continuing the journey, William Eddie checked one of his bags, looking for something or possibly making space. I don't remember exactly why. But in the very bottom, he had found a preserved chunk of bear meat, which was great. Like, hey, we're desperate. And it came with a note from his wife written in pencil, your own dear Eleanor, with the direction of saving the meat and a moment of desperation. I thought that was nice. He kept his gift close, as this day, day number six, would be the last day the snowshoe party would have something to eat.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

They are out of food, everybody. We are out of food.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

How many more miles do they have to go before they could actually like because we didn't say it was like 150 miles?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, that's that's what we're trying to reach, is 150 miles.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

And they're like what 30 by now, like 30 miles out?

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Something like that.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yeah, I now see why they all agreed this was the forlorn hope.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Great.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

I think they were hoping that in the process of heading out west, they somebody would be coming heading east trying to find them. And my guess is that that's what they were trying to do, is maybe they could find a rescue party that was trying to find them.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yeah, it was that, and they were I think they were also probably hoping that the snow would let up a little bit. Like maybe maybe it'll stop snowing for at least a night. Maybe two. But no.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

No. I guess it could make plenty of snowballs.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Right. They traveled another four miles before making camp. Overnight a stow a snowstorm blew through, and it snowed for 24 hours straight. Without food, the members of the group decided to save their energy and waited out. They began to hike again the following morning, December 23rd. They traveled eight miles that day, which probably felt pretty promising until they realized that they didn't recognize the landscape. Their guides, Luis and Salvador, were just as confused.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Oh good.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Considering it had been snowing all night, it was likely very easy to get lost. And now, after a long day of travel with no food, the party was most definitely lost.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah, this is where the the the forlorn part of the this group's name. Is now underlined, blinded, underlined, bold, and italicized.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Highlighted.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Uh-huh. Yeah, and highlighted. Can you see why and pink?

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Right? And it gets worse.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Oh, oh, good.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

You're welcome. But can you see why I went back to check to see if that name was given prior or before?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

On Christmas Eve. Well with a name like that, you're just telling God, like, okay, give it to us. We can we we've got this. Oh. Meanwhile, there's no snow anywhere else on the earth that all landed on landed on Donald's past this these past five days.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Okay, here we go. Um, and forewarning, this is where it gets a little dicey. So if you are easily triggered and sensitive to things, I just want to give you a heads up that this is this is gonna get a little sketch, more so than it already is. On Christmas Eve, it rained from morning until evening. Not snow, but rain.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Okay. So that means they're going down in altitude.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yeah, they're probably going down now. In the evening, the rain turned to snow. The group traveled two to four miles before being forced to stop due to the weather and their own deterioration. Tired and hungry, they attempted to build a fire but failed continuously because it was raining. And as the day grew to night, you know, it just continued to get worse. And you know, we now we have to get it.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yes, and that's that's hail set of problems.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Yeah, it's a whole thing. By nightfall, the weather finally calmed down a little bit, and a council was called amongst the party to decide how to move forward. The two options they had at this point were to continue on or turn back towards the cabins. And this is Christmas Eve, so we're on day, what, eight, nine without day eight, nine. So that means we're on day three without food. Somewhere around there, two, three days without food.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

By nightfall, their blood sugar must be nothing at this point.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

So we're we're talking about these two options. We're going back to the cabins or we're pushing forward. So I'm gonna ask you that question again. You don't have to answer it, just think about it. What would you do? What would you want to do in that situation? That's a tough choice. All five women, Louise, Salvador, and William Eddie, chose to push forward. The rest of the men felt that they would be in a better position to return to their families that they had left behind. It's a really hard choice. So I get it. Yeah. Both sides.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

That's an impossible choice.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Mary Graves in particular had a very strong desire to push forward, inspiring others in the group who thought differently. She wrote later, or she said later, what to do we did not know. Some of those who had children and families wished to go back, but the two Indians said that they would go on. I told them I would go too. To go back and hear the cries of hunger for my brothers and sisters was more than I could stand. I would go as far as I could, let the consequences be what they may, they might be. That's pretty that's pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

And here I am getting frustrated that the gas station that I normally go to in the morning is out of Coke Zero, and then I have to drive a mile to find a gas station that does have Coke Zero.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Like, yeah, you can't complain anymore.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I have like, yeah, I have in my air conditioned car in Arizona where it's like 80 degrees outside. Oh man, yeah, no, I um uh they were they were something else back then. They don't make them like that today.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Man. Once it was decided that they would continue forward, it was quickly realized that something had to be done about food. Patrick Dolan suggested that they draw names. The person whose name would be drawn would be sacrificed. Desperate and starving, the snowshoeers knew they were on the verge of death by starvation. They agreed and they drew names. Again, what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 44:25

So they were talking about like, hey, we're gonna take one of us, kill him, and then eat him.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

That was the suggestion.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Wow. The fact that they even posed that question is a very good indicator of just how uh well, for the lack of better words, forlorn their situation was.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

It's rough. It's rough.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Man.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

So initially they agreed and they all drew the names, and ironically, Patrick Don't name was drawn. However, when it came down to killing them, nobody could do it. They didn't have the heart to do it. They didn't want to. Murder is hard. Fair.

unknown 45:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Their humanity overcame their hunger, but not by much. Instead, they decided to come up with other solutions that wouldn't involve outright murder. William Eddy suggested that two names should be drawn. The two people chosen would duel till one or both died. This idea was shot down because murder. I personally didn't find any sources saying why, but I can imagine there were a few reasons against this one. You know, watching two people duel it out is not it doesn't sound like a good time in this type of setting.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Well, and I think a lot of it too is, you know, human beings have a degree of dignity.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

And this would be a very ignoble approach. Like, okay, yeah, we can starve to death, nature can kill us all, blah blah blah blah blah, but at least as humans, we can opt not to degrade ourselves to base animal behaviors. I think there was a part of that was going on there. It's just like, yeah, we're we are gonna die, but we don't have to go like a bunch of heathens or barbarians or whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Yeah. After that one was shot down, Eddie suggested that they wait and continue forward until somebody died of starvation or from the elements. That was agreed upon. Between 10 and 11 p.m., the wind, the rain, and the snow came back with a vengeance, hail included. Some remembered what it was like that night, describing it as a perfect tornado. I think that's what William Eddy wrote. Blowing out the fire that they had managed to start after the rain stopped. It was a whole thing. Understanding that there was a real possibility of starvation and hypothermia, William Eddie came up with an idea. Something that he had learned while hunting back home. He told his fellow travelers to give up on the fire until conditions improved. He then had everybody sit down in a circle very close together in the snow and then covered themselves with layers of blankets. So they basically entangled all of their legs for body heat, and they sat really close together and then used their thin blankets each to kind of layer in and cover themselves up.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

That's a pretty good idea.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah, it's actually pretty solid. And um, I don't remember who it was, but one of the um one of the party members said uh that it was William Eddie who saved their lives that night.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Well, except for one guy, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Well, we're except for four, but it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Yeah. But still, if the people that did survive, they would attribute that to Eddie's idea.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yeah, exactly. Um, Antonio, the teamster from Mexico, died of starvation and fatigue that night. Franklin Graves, Mary and Sarah's father, was on the verge of death as well. He lay in the arms of his daughters, speaking with them as a storm raged outside uh of the blankets that covered them. He urged his daughters to keep going, to think of their siblings and mothers back at the cabins, just as hungry as they were. It's said that he told his daughters to use his body to survive and do whatever they needed to in order to save the people who were counting on them. Then he died in the arms of his oldest daughters.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Yeah, that's traumatizing if you're those daughters.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Well, it's Mary Graves and Sarah, Sarah Graves. They got this.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

The group mourned, but stayed in their shelter for a majority of Christmas Day. Christmas morning, Patrick Dolan began showing signs of delirium, continuously trying to leave the shelter for illogical reasons, saying that he was on fire, his skin is burning, and usually that's both a sign of starvation and frostbite. Eventually, he had escaped the shelter yelling and screaming before being forced back into the shelter by Eddie. And while Eddie was holding him down, he slipped into a coma and he died. So we have one, two, we had three people who passed away that night. All right, let's take a break from that. Okay. Not that much of a break, but let's take a break from that. Back on the lake. The remainder of the Donner Party continued to take shelter in their cabins and in the tents at the creek. Starvation was still very, very real, and resources were still scarce. However, many still found ways to celebrate Christmas holidays with their families. Virginia Reed said later in life, Christmas was near, but to the starving its memory gave no comfort. It came and passed without observance, but my mother had determined weeks before that her children should have a treat on this one day. She had laid away a few dried apples, some beans, a bit of tripe, and a small piece of bacon. When this hoarded store was brought out, the delight of the little ones knew no bounds. The cooking was watched carefully, and when we sat down to our Christmas dinner, mother said, Children, eat slowly, for this one day you can have all you wish. So bitter was the misery relieved by that one bright day that I have never since sat down to a Christmas dinner without my thoughts going back to Donor Lake. I'm gonna cry.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Little Virginia.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Like how heart wrenching.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

But also like uplifting in a way, too. Like, talk about the true meaning of Christmas right there.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Yeah, there's humanity there, right? There's humanity there. There's like a mother is giving what she can to her children, and the children were so excited.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Yeah. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Another child, Mary Murphy. No, don't it gets worse.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Yeah, you raised your hand, like on Teams.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

I didn't mean to do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Another child named Mary Murphy, who was 13 at the time, the same age as Virginia, she said, Christmas, we had a meal of boiled bones and oxtail soup. After supper, mother was barely able to put the babies to bed. And later on that evening, with brother William reading her favorite psalm from the good book, she became bedridden and seriously ill. So they did celebrate Christmas in their own way as well. So I think some families were able to celebrate, some families did not. Just depends on where they were.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Meanwhile.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

Meanwhile. Back with the Forlorn Hope party through the pass in the snow the next day.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

And what about the Donner folks six miles away?

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Like I think they were just in their tents trying to survive. Because they had it harder than the people in the cabins. They were yeah. They were in tents with half of it open. Like it was rough for them. So I think they were just trying to get by. Because I mean Jacob had passed away. George has that hand wound gash in his hand, which is getting infected, BT Dubs.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Um, and then their children were with them. And Jacob Donner's wife, Elizabeth, is probably starting to become ill.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Not to mention, too, like every day they would have to like, if they were in tents because of the snow, they would actually have to like undo their tents.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

And then like re-restock the tents on higher ground, otherwise they would get completely covered.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

I think they let it get completely covered.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Um, I think there were there is a point where they weren't able to dig themselves out anymore.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

So basically they had like under snow like igloos kind of a thing, which actually that isn't a bad way to go. That actually can retain a lot of heat.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah. Okay. So you pass in the snow the next day. The snow had finally settled, leaving some respite from the winter for the snowshoeers. William Eddie made a fire for warmth. And as he was making it, they they had a hard time starting the fire because they didn't have any kindling. And originally he had tried to I don't remember what he used, but he tried to start the fire and it blew up on him, burned himself and two other women who were next to him. Sorry, that was loud.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

He was probably trying to use like gunpowder or something like that. Yeah, it was light it.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

He was gunpowder, I think, or something like that. Uh that didn't work. And then eventually he uh he was able to get some cotton from a woman's shirt and strike a piece of flint, I believe, and that started the fire.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Three people had passed away in quick succession, and the group faced a very difficult decision. Eat the bodies of their companions or die of starvation. Without a council or a conversation, somebody, we don't know who cut small amounts of flesh from the bodies that lay in their camp and cooked them over a fire. All except Luis and Salvador ate in silence, looking away from one another. They couldn't look at each other.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

I think they purposely left out that person.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Very likely.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Like they didn't, they didn't specify who it was because who wants to be known as the first person.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah. Very likely.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Yeah, they probably did that out of respect.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

But I mean, hey, yeah, it's one of those things it doesn't do anybody any good to starve to death where they're at. Right. Like that will not help out anybody back at the lake or you know, further back in the snow if they don't make it.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

I think from everything I've read on this, and I can't speak to the people reading the newspapers at the time. Uh, but nobody has ever blamed them or spoken bad of them for doing this. Yeah, I don't but not that I know of.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

It's it's not like they were having like, you know, back at home where it's nice and they're having a barbecue kind of or like in um uh whatchamacallit, in The Walking Dead, where they stumble upon that that sanctuary where they are just actively grilling people up.

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

That's one thing. But if there is no other option, I mean I can't judge anybody for that.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

The situation was desperate, and while they felt shame and regret in their actions, the people of the Forlorn Hope Party who ate regained some energy. All except Lemuel Murphy. The boy's body was giving up on him, and the starvation had proved to be too much. He died at 2 a.m. on December 27th in the arms of his sister. The next morning, the remaining snowshoeers had decided to preserve and dry more flesh from bodies, labeling them to avoid eating family members. This process took about two days. Once completed, they continued their journey through the Sierras looking for help for the loved ones at Truckee Lake. The camp they would leave behind would be called the Camp of Death. Three days later, their group of ten, so we're out, we're down to ten now. Three days later, the group of ten ran out of food once more. One night, fueled by hunger and racist ideologies of the time period, William Foster had begun talking with William Eddie about killing Luis and Salvador for food. Eddie waited for Foster to fall asleep, then warned the Miwok tribesman of Foster's plans. Both men left the party during the night in hopes that they would find their own way back to safety thanks to William Eddie's warning. The men, however, had not eaten for nine days, and the exposure to the winter weather continued to affect them. They didn't make it very far from where the rest of the camp the rest of the group was camped and before finding a spot under a tree to lie down, leaving bloody footprints behind them due to the long walks they had taken, plus probably frostbite. The next morning, William Eddie and Mary Graves went hunting for food. They'd managed to shoot a deer and excitedly returned to camp with venison for their companions. However, when they got back, they found that Jay Fosdic, Sarah's husband, had died of hunger and exposure. Now we're down to nine. William Foster woke up the next morning in a rage. He is starting to suffer from delirium as well. Plus the other thing. He threatened to kill and eat numerous people in the party before Eddie overpowered him, and Eddie warned Foster that if he threatened anybody ever again, he would kill him himself. Good for Eddie. This seemed to tame Foster for a couple days, but it didn't last very long. Foster had found out that Eddie had warned Luis and Salvador, and while they were continuing to walk and, you know, like they're continuing their journey and their hike, they saw Luis and Salvador's bloody footprints, and he began to follow them. He took out his gun and found the two men laying under the tree, probably in really rough shape. And I'm gonna leave it there because I'm sure you can just imagine what he did next.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

Hmm. So this is assuming they were still alive when you found him.

SPEAKER_01 57:53

They were.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

So that means, yeah. So he would have to shoot one and then reload and then take care of the other. And that is that's a that's a brutal situation to be in. It's bad. But again, though, like they're also not a really sound mind either. It's not like Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

It's it's muddy and messy. There's gross racism involved, but he's also suffering from delirium and they're starving.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Well, and there's so many things that are compromised in all of this, like health and mental status, and uh yeah, this is uh yeah, this this is a dumpster fire. I told you more like a dumpster freezer.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

It's all just bad.

SPEAKER_00 58:37

All because of a shortcut.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

Okay, last chapter for the night. Here we go. Chapter eight, California. Back in California, the Mexican American War was raging. The Americans were fighting for land to expand while Mexico was trying to keep hold of it. James Reed found himself in Northern California fighting in the last battle in the North, the Battle of Santa Clara, on January 2nd. While fighting, he was able to find allies in the military, and this gave him resources and connections that he would rely on to save his family. Los Angeles was taken by the U.S. on January 10th, 1847. Reed would soon meet up again with Sutter, asking for advice on putting together a rescue party. Sutter suggested Reed go to San Francisco to raise funds, resources, and find some men. If he were successful there, he would have the backing of the military with enough men to make the journey not just for him, but for the Donner Party stranded in the Sierras. Reed heeded Sutter's advice and traveled to San Francisco on horseback. He began gathering men, making speeches, trying to rouse people and inspire them to come help, and he would take anybody who would help him. While Reed was in San Francisco, John Sutter stayed near Sacramento at his own fort, Sutter's fort, where everybody's trying to get to. There was talk of a group of settlers being trapped at Truckee Lake, and people were starting to get nervous because they knew that they were trapped up there. Sutter went through town offering three dollars per day for anybody who would travel with him to rescue the members of the Donner Party. He was able to find seven men who were willing to travel into the Sierras with him. They planned to leave on January 31st, 1847. So we got that going for us. We had a little glimmer of hope, some some rescue.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

Yeah, wonder I wonder what those seven men like what I mean, obviously the three dollars a day was cool, but I I kind of makes me wonder like what those seven men had a part of their decision-making process to take on something like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

I think part of it was they wanted to just help. Um maybe some of them were immigrants, maybe some of them were soldiers, maybe they had a good relationship with Reed or Sutter, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

Yeah. Yeah. I I I'd be curious to talk to them someday, you know, like when I'm dead, just chilling up in heaven, like I'll find these seven guys and just talk to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

There's a couple people like that in this scenario.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

In the past, William Eddie and the six remaining members of Forlorn Hope were down to seven people. Continued their journey after the incident with Foster. He had killed the two men, and while there was initially outrage, the party was so hungry that their hunger won the argument. On January 12th, after traveling about 17 miles, Mary Graves saw tracks on the ground. She called the party behind her and renewed the group's excitement. The tracks turned out to belong to the local Native American tribe, the Miwok people. The same people that Luis and Salvador were a part of. The party staggered into the village full of men, women, children. The two men and five women were described as looking skeletal, dirty, and disheveled. The people in the village were moved to tears when they first saw them. Like literally, they were crying. Fighting through their own feelings, the people of the village then hurried about bringing the starving settlers bread and soup made from acorns. In total, the snowshoeers stayed in the village for seven days, taken in by the people in the village as if they were family. And on the seventh day, the group left the village to finish their trip. Guided by a few volunteers from the Miwok village, they traveled for two more days when they finally made it out of the Sierras and into Bear Valley. Rejoicing, they had stopped at Johnson's Ranch, about fifty-six miles north of present-day Sacramento. And that ranch would soon become like an area where the where they would wait and camp out and like sit. And it was like a whole it was fortified. We've got food, shelter, the whole thing. The seven survivors were William Eddie, William Foster, Mrs. Foster, Mrs. Harriet Pike, Mrs. Elizabeth McCutcheon, Sarah Fosdick, and Mary Graves. It had taken the seven remaining members of the group a total of 33 days to travel from the camps at the lake to Johnson's Ranch in Bear Valley. They began to spread word that there were still people stuck in the Sierras and rescue parties needed to be sent. So I'm gonna stop it there. Uh uh kind of on a high note. And then uh we will start talking rescues and reliefs and uh other things for the next part.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

I feel like I feel like the uh the rescue attempts were like mini dumpster fires in their own right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

Yes. The I I that to me was the most interesting part. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Wow. Well that sounds like a good time.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Now I can finally breathe. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

Yeah, no, that's a that that yeah, that that definitely um when it's told right, you really get a perspective of like, yeah, my life's actually going okay. I um we we don't really have it that hard. And and what I like about this is that it really shows, you know, like people be peopling, like people will sometimes always do the worst, but then you've got cases like this where there is legitimate examples of human beings trying to like well be good human beings. So it's like it's it's moments like this that really bring out what people are really made out of.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

Yeah, and you see that a lot in the next part too. Yeah, I think you see it more, right? What you got? Show me what you're made of.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Well, that was uh uh Yeah, that's right. So audience case if you're wondering, uh Deja is dying.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

Um I'm delirious.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

Yeah, yeah, she caught like airborne AIDS or something like that, or Ebola or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

It's good. I'm having a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Um it's called Child Children.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Yeah, your kids are walking petri dishes at that age.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

It's called my children spread germs to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

And then going into the classroom. Yeah, yeah. It's never ending. Uh and any teacher, their first years of teaching, they are sick for like the first three years straight. And then after that, you've caught everything under the sun, and then you never get sick again.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:21

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

Great. Yes. Yes. Or or what you do get is it it will lay you out for a week. Like you're not even moving.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

100%. I get yeah, I do. Except I don't cry about it. Just kidding, I do. I really do. I milk it. But you know, honestly, I am grateful for my slight sickness over all the nasty sickness and all that eating of things. I'll handle this like a champion. I will not handle that like a champion. I will fold so fast. You asked what I would do.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

What would you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

I don't think I should answer that online.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

Yeah, you don't have to. That's why that's why I I prefaced it with you don't have to answer this question, just think about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

Let me not uh yeah, I wouldn't survive. What would you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

Yeah, it's that's it's is is tricky, and I could see why this would be so tricky, but I guess the way I'm looking at it, I think the way a lot of people are looking at it is like, hey, I'm not in that situation, therefore I'm not gonna pass judgment on their decisions. Uh now going out and actually trying to kill two people uh for that purpose, that's a little overkill. Uh no pun intended. But like, hey, somebody passed in the night and you made this agreement prior. Uh, you gotta do what you gotta do, because if everybody dies on that, then there's gonna be no rescue attempt, or it's gonna be really limited uh come during the the that spring thaw. Yeah, I got uh for me it would be like okay, I gotta do what I gotta do, because there's more writing on it than like what people would think of me for going down that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

That's kind of like what Franklin Graves was saying to his kids like do whatever you need to do to get through it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:38

Yeah. Well, on that note, yeah, uh like and subscribe. Yeah, hit that notification bell. But uh, yeah, no, we'll uh I mean I'll I'll I'll definitely get this out sooner than later, and then um looking forward to part three. And I've got a really good plate cleanser coming up. Uh yeah, it's uh it's a mix between a flooded world and Mad Max. And it was one of the biggest flops, most expensive movie flops of of the 1990s. So that will be a um solid palette cleanser. Uh very solid palette cleanser because there's a lot of really weird, kind of funny stuff that went on. A lot of people almost died, but uh just just the nature of what was going on while trying to make this movie, and you're just like, why? Why would you do it this way? So we we will definitely have that um coming around the the bend, so to speak. But yeah, in the meantime, be sure to hit up our website, um, daisdempsfire.com. Uh cares to see Kara what you're gonna put up there for artwork for for this episode, um, or this the series that you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

Um probably the double decker wagon.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

The double decker wagon's gotta be a priority.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

Or or or like the guy who like cut his hand, and so it's like obviously you don't want to make it too graphic, but remember that episode of Spongebob where SpongeBob has that that splinter in his thumb, and Patrick is just like slathering like solid waste, and all and then like it gets so big it's like 10 times bigger than Spongebob. Like, I have visions of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

Just knowing what happens to him, I don't think I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

Oh, okay. Yeah, so you're so more fall off the bone goodness there. Okay, but but but yeah, go to the go to the website, check out uh our whole back catalog of what 52, 53 episodes. Uh so we will have notes on there. I'm actually working on a couple of like little essays. Uh each one of us hosts, we have our own section on there that we can put up our own meandarings and whatnot. And that's right. I'm I'm working on an essay about failing. Uh, because who doesn't want to read that? It's either read that or watch C SPAN. And people may opt to read my thoughts on what failure looks like. So it's understandable. Yeah, so very yeah, so very much go there, uh, check out the website. Uh, we're on Instagram um at the day's dumpster fire. Um in the meantime, go out, tell people about us, uh, try to take people's phones. Uh that's really the easiest thing to do is just take a phone and just steal one. Yeah, just steal it in just steal a phone.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:00

No, period. Subscribe to the phone. Subscribe to the phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Just do uh, yeah, just go out and buy a whole bunch of data plans and just like swap out the sim cards and subscribe. But yeah, like go around, spread the word. Uh, you know, this is something that uh people ask, is like, oh, who's your audience? I I don't know. Anybody would be interested. Your mom.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

You, yeah, your grandma, your uncle.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

Anybody, anybody who's ever had their own dumpster fires in their own lives that could benefit from something like this, this is the direction we're we're kind of going in. Is okay, why do we actually study history? And we've always heard it before, so we can't let the mistakes of the past repeat itself. Well, in our individual lives, that's gonna happen whether we like it or not. And understanding situations like this can actually help you at least to the bare minimum have some perspective in terms of what is it that you're currently facing. So kind of kind of spread the the good word that way. Uh, feel free to email us at the daysdumpster fire at gmail.com. Uh, we are totally open to ideas. We would love to hear your your own personal trash can fires. Uh, or you could just email us and tell us what we're doing wrong, because I'm pretty sure I I've messed up here and there. Um, so yeah, uh all the communication stuff is out there. Uh you can also there's a link on our website where you can actually like send us a text message. And uh if you are podcast inclined or you have a means to record a message, you can also send it uh via email as well if you want to do like a uh like a voicemail type type of thing. So so yeah, uh stay tuned for uh part three of this uh crazy, crazy story. And um yeah, uh that that's all I got, unless you guys have something.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

Nope, nope. I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

Okay, well that's all, folks. Yep, keep it a hot mess.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

Bye.