Donner, Party of 90! Fire Part 3 - Episode 54

Today is the day that you get to hear the thrilling end to one of the craziest and depressing moments in American history up to the 1850: The tragedy of the Donner Party. Check out Episode 52 and Episode 54 for the background that feeds into this conclusion. Be sure to give those a listen on thedaysdumpsterfire.com to get caught up. 

Where Kara left off, the Donner party had already been trying to survive in the wild during a winter and as food ran out, desperation forced the living to consider the dead a viable source of food. And in this episode we discover that just because they were eventually "rescued" they weren't out of the woods yet... LITERALLY. In what turns into a situation of hope and survival, we get to see that even though everyone was suffering the decent, kind, and crazy strong among our species will rise to the top to help others. 

Kara mentions that there is a fair amount of hidden coins and other pieces of jewelry hidden in the Sierras from the Donner Party and if you want to read up on it and perhaps try and find it on your own, you can find some of the details here.

Lastly, be sure to keep checking thedaysdumpsterfire.com  for updates and to see the latest of artwork that Kara uploads (rumor has it that the artwork for this episode may or may not include a blinged out double decker Conestoga wagon.

So sit back, relax, and think hard about the next time you want to take a shortcut in life, after all, look what happened to the Donner Party. 

Hey before you go! 

If have ideas for future episodes that you want Kara and Ed to look into, email them at thedaysdumpsterfire@gmail.com. They would love to hear from you!

You can also send them a text message by clicking on the link at the top. 

Be sure to head on over to www.thedaysdumpsterfire.com for the ever growing library of historical dumpster fires. 

Check us out on the ol Instagrams!
https://www.instagram.com/thedaysdumpsterfire/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey everybody, this is Kara. This is Deja.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And this is Ed. And this is your day's dumpster fire, where we don't celebrate humanity's successes, but its most fantastic failures. I think that was the most seamless version of that intro that we've done in a very long time.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

I didn't have to use an accent to mask my nerves of messing up a script. Right. You did it, guys. That I've said like 1700 million times in my head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Yeah, it's it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

I still need to use the script too. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

See, to me, to me, it's easy. Like to me, I it I don't know. Maybe because I wrote it, but I just feel like it's easy to remember. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

I'm so happy for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Audience, let us know in the comments if we need to change up the intro.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

I think that I'm doing really good with adding in a little bit of like southern twang here and there, you know. Maybe I'd throw in a little accent. I was gonna do some Russian, but I'm not, I think it's gonna sound French, so I won't do that. Maybe aim for French. Volka. Nope. Yeah, see, it I didn't do it, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

It's okay. Just remember, everything in Russian, everything in Russian just ends in like ov or ski. So that's that's all you gotta do is put av or ski at the end of everything, and you you're speaking fluent Russian. According to our Russian students, it's exactly how it works.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

I can do that. I can also speak Italian. You want to hear it?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Oh no. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Me, me, me, me.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

As covers his everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

I love it. I being in upper elementary and then being in middle school, they have the glory of hearing all the brain rot terminology that their children indulge, you know, on a daily basis. But my students are a little too young. They're too young still, a little bit. And so when I found a really funny brain rot that I liked, I walked into middle school at the top of my lungs, and I said it, and they were like, no, yeah, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Every minute is glory, yeah. Glory.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

And of course, our middle schoolers are just taking it and running with it. They're like, We got this from Deja.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

And then yeah, yeah, first they cringed at you, Deja, but now they're starting to embrace it.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yes, it's true. Well, speaking, speaking of children, Kara, um that's what are we eating today for our episode?

SPEAKER_03 3:03

What are we doing today for our episode? What are we doing today? What are we doing today?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

We are going to get into the um final part, chapters, whatever you want to call it, uh portion of the Donner Party. So welcome to part three.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

The final course.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

It's the final countdown. Dessert.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Tough crowd.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

And uh, yeah, and I know like there's a dude that dies horribly from gangrene. So like he's leaking the weird juice that comes out of a slim gym.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

That would be George.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Uh yeah. So don't ruin Slim Gyms for me, please. I might do that for you. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Hey, look, there's not gonna be any mechanically separated people.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

No nuggies or hot dogs. From my end, it sounded like you said volcanic. Honestly. So I had to like erase that and be like, wait, hold on. What are we saying? Sick. Volcanic. Explosive?

SPEAKER_02 4:15

What I kind of wish I could put together like an HBO last time on the Donner Party. But last time on the Donner Party.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, I mean you gotta have it like the really epic voice, just like previously on the day's dumpster fire.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Yeah, that would be sick. Last week on the day's dumpster fire. Was that Siri enough? Um, yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Thank you. Been working on it in the mirror. On part two, the Donner Party made it through up to the Sierras, and then they got stuck in over 10 feet of snow, tried to get over the pass over a number of days, didn't work, and then a smaller group of people called themselves the Forlorn Party, made some snowshoes, tried to make it through the snow. Um, after a lot of suffering and starvation and a little bit of murder, they uh made it to a small Native American village, and we had seven survivors out of the seventeen people who left there, if I remember right, that number was.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Yeah, I thought it was like close to half of them.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Didn't make it or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Seven survivors made it through. All of the women and like two dudes, so go ladies, they made it through. At the same time, our guy, James Reed, was in California trying to get a rescue party together.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

This was the guy that was banished, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Yep. James Reed, the guy that was banished in part one of this little series.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

He was banished for a self-defense situation, and then they voted him off the island.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

And now he's probably gonna be like everybody's savior.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

I guess we'll find out.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

In the shocking conclusion.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

In the shocking conclusion of the Donner Party.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Dude, we gotta get the voice of uh from uh what is it, Funimations, the guy that does the uh previously on Dragon Ball Z.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah, we gotta do something like that. That'd be sick.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

There's gotta be a way to do that. I'll I'll look that up at the end. We gotta look that up. Insert it somewhere. That'd be epic.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I would like that. Okay. Chapter 9, some relief. Here we go. The first relief party organized by John Sutter. So the guy who owns Sutter's Fort, he was talking with James Reed for a little bit, and he's like, hey, you should go uh to San Francisco and get people together. Yeah, same guy. He began his journey into the Sierras with a full understanding that this mission would put his life in danger along with the people he brought. Um, so I just wanted to put put that out there. Like these these guys knew that going on this rescue mission would probably put themselves at great risk on top of just the people they're trying to save. So for the first relief party, we have seven guys who came with Sutter. We have Akila Glover, Reason P. Tucker, Sept Motry, Motri, Ned Coffey Meyer, which great last name, Joseph Sells, Daniel Rhodes, and John Rhodes, Daniel's brother. This is the first relief party. So these are the guys who left while James Reed was still looking for people to travel to the pass.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

These are very unique names.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Right? They have some cool names.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

It's like, hey, I need to find like we gotta go rescue all these people, but the only qualifications that I ask is that you have uh uh interesting name.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Yes. Ned, your first step. Come on, Coffee Meyer. Come on, Coffee Meyer, let's go. Let's come.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

I believe Sutter paid these guys like three dollars a day or something similar to that what Reed was paying his guys.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Um, so they were paid, however, there are only seven of them, but it's fine. The first relief party left on February 5th, 1847. And as they were leaving, James Reed was also in the process of building his own relief party. Reed was armed with military aid and volunteers from Sacramento and San Francisco, and the determined father left for the Sierra Mountains two days after the first relief party had left, so he wasn't too far behind. As the first party traveled up the mountains, they would burn a pine tree to mark where they had been and leave a trail for other rescuers to follow them. So because they knew they were the first, they wanted to leave some sort of trail, kind of like Hansel and Gretel with their breadcrumbs, but more effective because they're burning trees.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

That's clever.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah. Period.

unknown 8:26

Right?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Because that's gonna stay that way. It's not like you put down breadcrumbs and the birds just eat it and then you're screwed. No, like there's like this swath of burnt trees going out as far as the eye could see. That's a really good idea. Oh, I'm so leaving that in.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

I was hoping that you could start talking over it. Oh, it hurt too. That was a rough one.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, let's just say Deja's drinking some modified Dr. Pepper.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Got a little hair on my toast.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

It's got a little bite to it.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

It's cheap though, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

It's fine. We're doing great. Saving money. Yes. So as they reached higher altitudes, they began emptying their backpacks and burying anything deemed unnecessary to lighten their load. So what these guys would do, and Reed did this too, is they would bring a bunch of stuff and then they would leave caches of food and supplies on the trail. So on their way back, they could return to it and they would have supplies for the journey home.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

That's kind of like um, whatchamacallit, um our episode on getting to the uh South Pole.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's very similar to that.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, like they we'll put links in the in the show notes, but they set up like these depots along the way so that they would actually have resources on the way back.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Mm-hmm. It's very similar to that. Smarties. Yep. On February 17th, they found themselves camping on the Yuba River just west of the Donner Party's cabins. And the next day they traveled through the pass and into the valley where the lake was supposed to be. Except they didn't see a lake. They just saw a bunch of snow. They estimated that the lake was underneath the snow about 15 to 18 feet deep. One of the seven men, his name was Daniel Rhodes, wrote about what they witnessed when they came across the Donner camps. At sunset, we crossed Truckee Lake on the ice and came to the spot where we were told we would find the immigrants. Emigrant was an E. We looked all around, but no living thing except ourselves was in sight. We raised a loud hello, and then we saw a woman emerge from the hole in a snow. As we approached her, several others.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

I'm sorry. But as soon as you said a woman emerging from the snow, I thought of sorry, but I thought of ace ventura when he's coming out of the rhino and he's just like kind of confused. I picture I pictured a woman coming out of snow very similarly to that. Sorry. Like the arms.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

It's like the miracle of birth. Look away the covering their eyes.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

Look away, Tony.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Probably more like mere cats, I think.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

I think her care goes to like something wholesome and then being higher going straight to the straight to the kisser.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

I'm sorry. It's like a little like you know our lower elementary guide when she comes out into the sun and she just feels that the ray of the sun on her face, and she's like, oh yeah. It's kind of similar to that look. We're just like confused.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Like this lady, just like this snow lady. Who are you guys? Haven't seen you in a while.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I don't know why she sounds like that. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah, yeah. We're totally making her out like some some weird hillbilly that lives in snow. Instead, she's just some hillbilly that's living in snow. But proceed.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Uh okay. As we approached her, several others made their appearance in a manner of coming out of the snow. So, like just random people started popping up out of the snow, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

Really?

SPEAKER_02 12:27

They were gaunt with famine. Like little prairie dogs. Like really gaunt, skeletal, hungry prairie dogs. I was thinking like welcome. Sorry. Okay, it's over.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I bet they probably did look like they were on the verge of death, though. Like they probably were. They they probably look like something that you would see like in The Walking Dead. Yeah, it was very bad. I bet they were in really bad shape.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

They were gaunt with famine.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yep, that'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

And I never can forget the horrible, ghastly sight they presented. The first woman spoke in a hollow voice, very much agitated, and said, Are you men from California or do you come from heaven? Wow. So that that was a guy, um right? Well, you can you imagine? Like they were they've been up there for two, three months. Yeah. Just underneath snow the whole time, and then you have these men that you honestly don't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

So what what party or what group was this that was buried in the snow? Because there were some that were in the cabins, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

And then yeah, this is the group that's in the cabins.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Okay. Because they did they burn the cabins, and that's why they're all like coming out of the snow, or they're all buried. Oh, oh, so they're buried inside the cabins underneath the snow.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Correct. The snow is thick with three cues.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah, and like a captain.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah, no, they were all buried. So when they got there, the the men who were there and they they saw nothing but snow. Later, they estimated that the lake and the cabins were about the lake level or about under 15 to 18 feet of snow.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Oh, that sucks.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yeah. So, yes, it sounds funny when you're talking about these people coming out of the snow like that, but in reality, they were living underneath that's the snow.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

And what's crazy is that's probably what kept them alive because that all that snow actually retains heat. So that was probably the thing that kept them from freezing to death.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

I was thinking that too. I was like some kind of like igloo situation there, keeping the warmth inside.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Man.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yep. The rescue party took in the very shocking sight. About 12 bodies covered by quilts were laid across the white snow. Forty-eight people were still alive but starving and in various conditions. Some were on the verge of delirium. Some had already passed on at this point. In a condition that was beyond their abilities to aid. So some people were just in such rough condition that they knew that they couldn't save them. At the cabins, it was reported that Margaret Reed and all of her children were still alive, along with Tamson Donna, and her children. The breeds were able to keep their children alive throughout the winter as well. And up to this point, the people at the lake were not forced to eat the bodies of the dead in order to survive. So so far, the people at the cabins haven't had to resort to such measures just yet.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

What do they do for food though? I mean, did they just really ration out what they had or were they able to find stuff?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

A little bit of both. So they they rash they were they really rationed out whatever they had left in terms of their livestock and nuts and whatever else they could find around the area. Sometimes they were able to get a deer. I think one of the men before the Forlorn Party left shot a bear. Um and then after that it's just like rats or bugs that they found here and there.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Literally anything that literally anything.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

It was to a point where they were making stews and soup out of leaves and sticks.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

And shoe leather.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

And shoe leather. Yeah, leather from clothes and stuff like that. So it's a good time. The rescue party told their survivors that they would be able to take the most able-bodied people first. So they weren't gonna take the weakest, they were gonna take the healthiest. The reason for this was to ensure that the trip would be faster and another round of resources could be sent to them hastily. They took twenty-one people with them, mostly women and children, including our friends Virginia, James, and Margaret Reed. Tams and Donner was asked to return when the relief party made their way to Alder Creek, but she refused. Her husband George was suffering greatly from an infection at his hand that has gone gangrenous, and he is also suffering from starvation. She refused to leave his side and told him that she would rate wait for the next round of rescuers. And that's at the camps. So they traveled from the cabins and then they went to the camps to check on the donors and Tanzan wanted to stay with her husband. She refused to leave him in that state.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

And for our our audience out there that's not too familiar with gangrene, it's it's obviously an infection, but it's one of those, like, even if you get it today, it it is yes, it's very treatable, but even that it like it scares doctors. Like that's a pretty bad situation to be in, let alone back then where there was nothing they could do except for maybe amputate. Uh there was no treatment for it. He probably had really bad fevers, chills. Like, I I he must have been very uncomfortable that whole time.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

So, moral of the story, don't get gangrene, guys.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah, let's not get gangrene. It's a bad deal. So the first relief party stayed for about four days to give people resources, whatever food they had, or they were able to give and ration them out. And by February 22nd, they and the rescued settlers began to journey back to California, leaving the remaining 31 people there without enough food to sustain them all. They knew they didn't have enough food, but they they could only leave so much. They they didn't have enough to be able to feed the 31 people who remained. The youngest Reed children, Patty and Tommy, could barely stand. Their mother was told that they needed to stay at the camp as the journey wasn't safe for them. Margaret Reed pleaded them, pleaded with them, and then she tried to convince the relief party to allow the family to return as a whole.

unknown 18:29

Mr.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Glover, one of the other men on the rescue party, told Mrs. Reed that he would return to the cabins after taking this party back to California personally if they didn't meet James Reed on his way back with his own rescue team. So they they essentially told uh Mrs. Reed that the two youngest kids needed to stay back at the camps underneath all the snow while Virginia and Margaret and James Jr. went on. So she had to leave her two youngest babies behind.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

I accidentally read ahead on that and I felt a little heartbroken before you even said I was like, oh no, oh god, what did I do? Like, no.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

It's like when did you tell me this was gonna be so depressing, Kara?

SPEAKER_03 19:16

I tried. She's like, stop talking about silly things, guys. It's gonna not.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Oh poor babies. So Mr. Glover's words, I know. No babies. Mr. Glover's words seemed to help Mrs. Reed a little bit. Uh, but it was really, I think, also Virginia was able to talk her mom into having them go along. And the big thing too was that the the the idea of meeting James on their way back was probably another thing that convinced her. But she did she did leave the two youngest behind with. In the cabins. And Patty, who was just eight years old, told her mother that she would take care of her younger brother. And just before leaving, Patty told her mom, Well, Ma, if you never see me again, do the best that you can. That was the part I was like, Virginia Reed. Tears she was eight years old. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Have the wherewithal to s even come to those terms like that is wild.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah. Virginia Reed wrote, It was a sad parting, a fearful struggle. The men turned aside, not being able to hide their tears. Patty said, I want to see Papa, but I will take good care of Tommy, and I do not want you to come back. Mr. Glover returned with the children and providing them with food, left them in the care of Mr. Breen. That's what Virginia wrote about the situation. And with that, the party set out towards California. The snow was steep and deep in some spots. Virginia Reed described the snow as being as steep as stair steps. Her brother James was waist deep in it, doing the his best to keep up. And what kept him going was the thought of getting closer to his father and to food. Can't blame him.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah, those that's a pretty worthwhile goal to go for.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Dad and food. And he hasn't seen it. Remember, he hasn't seen his dad since October.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

And we're in February. So we're getting there. On the second day of travel, the first relief party stopped at one of the cache sites to recover or cachet sites, sorry, to recover the food and supplies they had stored up. Upon their arrival, they discovered that the food had been eaten by animals.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

That's disrespectful.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

A lurging feeling of despair had washed over them, and without that food, they feared they would starve. Jeez. Despite the feeling of sadness and anxiety, they pressed on in hopes that the next cachet would not be empty. Ooh, the fury. On the fifth day of travel, I know. It's okay. We're gonna get through it. On the fifth day of travel, the men in front of the party saw something moving in the distance through the trees. They waited to get a good look at whatever was coming towards them. Eventually they saw a group of men on horses carrying bags of foods and resources. It was the second relief party on their way to the cabins. Leading the way was James Reed. Yay! The two parties began shouting greetings to one another so they could meet. When Margaret Reed heard her husband's voice, she stumbled in the snow trying to get to him. They had been apart for five months, and Margaret believed Reed was dead. He was then, after that, greeted by Virginia and James, and it was a really sweet moment. James Reed wrote about his reunion with his family and the rest of the party. He says, Here I met my own wife and two of my little children. Two still in the mountains. I cannot describe the death-like look of them. Bread, bread, bread was the begging of every child and grown person.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

See if they packed a bread machine, they wouldn't have this problem.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Oh right, Ed disqualified. And Deja was really into it too. He just pulled her right up. Like, okay, ruin the moment. Uh James was given provisions he could. James had given the provisions he could to the first relief party and said his goodbyes to his wife and child and children. He had to keep going to the cabins to save as many as he could, including Patty and Tommy, who were left behind. And they parted ways in higher spirits, hopeful that they would make it to Sutter's Fort. So now we're going to transition and we're going to follow Reed and we're going to leave the first relief party and we're going to go back to the cabins.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

And hopefully nothing happened. Like that first relief party. I I re I'm really hoping that like nothing eventful happened. They got back to civilization. And that would have been that would be like a very boring part of the story. So we left it out, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Fingers. Fingers are so crossed.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

I hope they'll let you hold on to reach the pasto times.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

I'll let you hold on to that hope, and we're going to um we're gonna keep going and slogging through this depressing stuff first. Okay. Here we go. Reed was given some information on the conditions of the people back at the cabins. Understanding that the people were starving, barely able to walk, he knew that he had to get there as fast as possible. He also understood that the amount of provisions he was bringing was not enough to feed everyone. He picked up the pace to get to the cabins as quickly as the snow would let him. On the way, he sent teams of two men ahead to leave cachets of food for the return trip just as the first relief party had done. So while he was traveling with the rest of the men and all the food and all that stuff, he sent two guys ahead. Back at the cabins, the people were doing their best to survive. They ate bones, leather, and a rat if they were lucky. On February twenty sixth, Patrick Breen wrote in his diary, hungry times in camp. Plenty of hides, but the folks will not eat them. We eat them with tolerably good appetite, thanks to the almighty God. Mrs. Murphy said here yesterday that she thought she would commence on Milton and eat him. I do not think she has done so yet. It is distressing. The Doners told the California folks four days ago that they would commence on the dead people if they did not succeed that day or the next in finding their cattle than ten or twelve feet under the snow, and they did not know the spot or near it. They have done it ere this.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

So question about this. So we we had the forlorn party, then we have the Donner group, which is they're like just trying to survive in like tents and whatnot. And then you have the group here in the cabins. Did they all like individually, like in groups, did they come to the conclusion of the whole eating the dead thing, or was it something that they discussed when they were all together the last time? Like I guess I guess my question is, is is this something that they independently came up with, or was this something that was a strategy that was employed or discussed before they separated?

SPEAKER_02 26:04

No, it was never discussed before they separated. Because if you remember from last part, Forloran Party, that was a discussion that they had. But over in the cabins and at the Donner camps, things have gotten so bad in terms of food that people are now contemplating it is individually.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

So in other words, that is something that is kind of like hardwired into the human psyche, is that if it gets bad enough, anybody could come up with this conclusion. Meaning they're not sick and demented, weird cannibals. This is more evidence pointing to how dire the situation is that they came up with this conclusion independently.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, I'd say that's a good way of looking at it. Interesting. The next day, on February twenty-seventh, Reed sent three of his men, uh Mr. Katie, Clark, and Stone, ahead of his party. He wanted them to ride ahead and reach the cabins before they did and get a head start for the survivors there. The men did as they were told, and rode to a summit in hopes of seeing the lake or the cabins from there, so they had a better sense of direction. They agreed amongst themselves that if they could not get a good view of their destination, they would report back to Reed. On their way to the summit, they stumbled upon a s skeleton leaning against a tree. They recognized the guns and the clothing. It was Charles Stanton. So I don't know. Um Charles Stanton was the guy who got snow blindness.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Oh, that's right. And was left. And you told me like leave him.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Yeah. Yeah, they found him. Yeah. Katie Clark and Stone continued on the path until they reached the cabins the next morning. They found that people were still alive in the cabins. They gave provisions to a mister Keysberg, Breen, Graves, and Mrs. Murphy. Once they went through the cabins at the lake, they made the seven-mile trip to the tents where the donors were camped. They made it to the donors by midday and provided provisions to them before returning to read. They came back from reports of the camp and it was in dire, dire shape. And now the survivors have officially resorted to eating the dead. One source claims that the men witnessed something, someone, sorry, carrying a human arm before throwing it into the snow. Another person said that they saw Jacob Donner's three children eating his organs at the camps. Um, I believe it was described as the three children sitting on a log eating a heart with blood dripping down their chins.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

That's ridiculous. I'm sorry. I just didn't need that in my head. You're welcome. Oh God. I you know, when you say three little children sitting on a log, I thought eating their curds in a way.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Little three toughets.

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Non quite quiet. It was curds and way, is what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

So yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

So these are the reports that Katie Clarkinstone came back to Reed with. Reed was still trying to make his way up. Man. Brain's diary officially ends on March 1st. It marks the day that Reed and the rest of his party made it to the cabins. It states March 1st, 10 men arrived this morning from Bear Valley with provisions. We are to start in two or three days and cache our goods here. They say the snow will remain here until June. And that was the last entry in Patrick Breen's diary.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Oh my gosh. This is this is a disaster.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Well, Breen makes it, just so you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

But yeah, it's just, I don't know. To me, it's just I how do you even wrap your head around? Like, if you're one of those those guys that were in that rescue party, how do you wrap your head around what what you're seeing?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Like, how do you make sense of this?

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah, it's just I don't to me that would be a psychological blow or uh traumatizing to those folks, and they're like healthy.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Right. Just seeing something like that, just witnessing it.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Reed entered the camp and it was in shambles. Ten settlers had died, many of them unburied. Some survivors had eaten the dead to keep themselves alive. Reed wrote about what he had witnessed when he arrived at the lake, so this is uh Reed's entry now. Among the cabins lay the fleshless bones and half eaten bodies of the victims of the famine. There lay the limbs, the skulls, and the hair of the poor beings who had died from want and whose flesh preserved their lives of their surviving comrades, who, shivering beneath their filthy rags and surrounded by the remains of their own holy feast, looked more like demons than human beings. They had fallen from their high estate, though compelled by the fell hand of dire necessity. So Reed understood like this is horrible, but they had to.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

That last line there, compelled by the fell hand of dire necessity, kind of tells you what he's thinking.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah, the the meaning that when they came across this, again, this wasn't people that lost their minds, and you know, this wasn't like their first go-to thing. It was evident in he's trying to make it very apparent that don't judge these guys, these men, women, and children, don't judge them for what they did. It's more like this is what they had to do.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Right. As soon as Reed had arrived, he began handing out small amounts of food to the people who remained in the camps. He made soup and clothed William Eddie and William Foster's kids. So William Eddie and William Foster are two of the men who went for the forlorn group, and they they're actually the two men who survived.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Reed delegated his men to help as many people as possible to prepare them for their journey ahead. His goal was to leave as early as the next day. So if we remember from Breen's account, they were supposed to be there for two or three days, but once Reed saw the conditions of the people, he's like, We gotta get out of here and come back as fast as we can.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

From the cabins, Reed then traveled to the Donner camp. He first arrived at Jacob Donner's tent. Mrs. Donner, Jacob Donner's wife, not Tamson, was in weak condition, but she was alive. Her husband passed earlier in the winter. Next, he then checked on George and Tamson Donner, and George was near death. The infection in his hand had spread and he was too weak to move. Tamson was healthier, and Reed tried to convince her to leave with him. She would send some of his men to return for George and Elizabeth. Oh, I'm sorry, he would send some of his men to return for George and Elizabeth. Tamson argued with Reed, saying he would not leave she would not leave her husband there in those conditions under any circumstances. And and Reed was not a dumb guy. He was a very smart man, and he did not argue with her.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

He concluded that this was an act of This was George's wife, the Tamson.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

George's wife.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Okay, so the guy okay, yeah. So the guy who's dying from gangrene wife was like, I'm not leaving.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yeah. Um this is the same woman who refused to leave with the first relief party.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

So she even still now with the second relief party, she's like, I'm not leaving. And Reed did not argue. He's like, I know I'm not gonna win this fight.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Not to mention her even putting up the fight too much could kill her. She's probably that weak.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah, um, from the accounts that I was reading, she's actually one of the stronger people in all the camps and cabins and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

But see, to me, that is fascinating because it's like they're all in the same situation, and you obviously got people that are not eating as much as others just for ration purposes, but then it kind of makes you wonder like, okay, what was about her physiology that made her one of the strongest ones? I don't know. Like, it's this it's this interesting whenever you look at a survival situation like this, it's just it makes me wonder, like, okay, what is it about this person that made them stronger than somebody else? And they're all in an identical scenario.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

You know what there's a oh that that American, I can't remember the name of it, primeval or whatever it was. The the Netflix show. It's I mean, it's what when like the Mormons and the Indians were going at it, right? Um, so it's it's a long, long time ago, right? But like this woman, you're watching this woman and her child like fight for survival through these different places, like going through Utah and everything. And and you're just like you just think like she's a pretty like small person. Like, how is it that she's gone through all this like horrible weather, all of this crazy, like these crazy attacks? And granted, this is like a made-up show, but it's very similar to this where it's like this woman's gone through all these different like obstacles and she's made it extremely far. But like, what is it about her and like like you're saying her physique that like is getting her through this when you have like you know these corn fed men that are like huge, you know, they you know, they've got meat on their bones to kind of last them.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Yeah, it's like why are they why are they wasting away? But then this other person isn't wasting away. It's it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Men die first because they make stupid choices. I wonder. No, I'm just kidding. No, they took a shortcut that they shouldn't have done.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Look, honey, it's a shortcut. So it'll work out great.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

She's like, no, we should go the right way. He's like, no, honey, we should go this way. She's like, no.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Oh, the I told you so's the end of this most.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Oh, the I told you so is imagine. Oh, 100%. Reed left the Donner camp with extra food. So he left them with some food to make sure that they'd be okay. And he promised that help for more people was on the way. He took Jacob Donner's three remaining children with him to prepare for their trip the next day. Reed and the second relief party took 17 people with them, most of them children. Reed knew that the 100-mile journey back to Sutter's Fort would be slow and painful. Three men, Stone, Katie, and Clark, stayed behind to assist remaining people at Truckee Lake. So he left three healthy men to stay behind to make sure that nobody else died. And left, I think he only took one other adult, and everyone else were children, and like 16 kids. I think it was something like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Rumor has it.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Not three, yeah, all those hungry kids. I mean, you remember how much our kids complained and they were like down in Tucson and how starving they were.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

I was barely gonna say, I was gonna say my bit my kids can barely make it to lunch before complaining about it.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Yeah. And they're gonna be like ten times worse than these kids, too. Like, oh, we're gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Complaining way more.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

They're not allowed to complain anymore.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Nope.

unknown 37:36

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Nope, they've lost all complaining rights.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

That's right. Oh yes, Mrs. Graves was the one who came along. So rumor has it, and I thought this was interesting. Rumor has it that Mrs. Graves, before she left, stashed away about$500 before leaving. All that's written from contemporary sources is that it's behind a rock somewhere, and only Mrs. Graves knows where it is. It's never been found.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Okay. That is interesting because I literally, in my newsfeed, this article popped up about like the Donner Party's gold.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Oh, did they find it?

SPEAKER_00 38:14

And there was like one person he he claimed this was in the late 1800s, I think. Oh he claimed that he found like 250 gold coins. And uh and supposedly that was that that money. Interesting. But yeah, that yeah, there were the the whole article was about how how like there's there's a large sum of of gold stashed away there, like the Donner's gold kind of a thing, and it's still it's still a mystery as to if it's ever been discovered or not. And I'll try to find that article and link it in the in the show notes. It was a pretty interesting read, and it just so happened to pop up on my newsfeed before this episode, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Yep. So yeah, that's a that's a fun little mystery. I think people have hiked there too, looking for it. And from what I understand, they haven't found it yet. Or maybe somebody did find it and nobody said anything. I don't know. Do you guys want to go look for it? Yeah, sure. Not in the winter, but we can go in the summer.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Yeah, no, you got me messed up before going in the winter. I will not make it one day. She tried getting to her car and she perished.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

So that would that would that five hundred dollars would be worth about just shy of twenty thousand dollars today.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Not to mention, too, like if it isn't gold coins, those coins are worth more than gold because they are so rare. So yeah, there's probably close to my guess would be almost a hundred thousand dollars chilling around out there somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Pretty good number. Let's go find it, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Let's go up there in the middle of winter and we'll take the shortcut to get there, and uh, we'll find this money.

unknown 39:58

Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

We're not taking any shortcuts. I'm not I'm not listening to a man talk about shortcuts this time. Sorry. Me and Carol will figure it out. Okay. We got this. We're like, let the women take over this time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yeah. They'll ask for directions and get the right answer.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Uh a few days after the second relief party's departure, Stone and Katie had noticed that the weather was taking a downturn. A storm was approaching, and they decided to leave Donner Camp to warn the relief party. Before Leadie before before leaving, they tried to convince Tams and Donner again to join them. And again, she refused. But she did ask that her daughters Francis, Georgia, and Eliza go with them. The men agreed. However, bro, three times. Three times, but she still did not leave. Three times? She loves that man. She loves that man dearly. Good for him. That's love right there.

SPEAKER_03 41:03

Yeah. I would be like, I'm so sorry, babe, but gotta do this.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

I'll uh I'll tell the world about you, okay? I'll do you right.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Yeah, well we'll I'll write something down about you. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

I'll make the obituary make you look good.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Oh no. Uh the men agreed to take the three girls. However, they could only take them as far as the cabins at the lake, and they left them there with Kiesberg. They decided not to take them the entire way because they weren't confident they could keep up with a storm on its way, and honestly, I kind of get that. Clark stayed behind with the Doners. Um, he chose to make sure that Tamson had somebody there, I guess. On the night of March 4th, 1847, the snowstorm did come through. The second relief party huddled together around a fire. The members from California were able to keep the fire going, but it was very tiresome. So we have the snowstorm blowing through, they you know, huddle around a fire, and we have the guys who were healthy and not kids, uh, keep the fire going and going and going through the snowstorm. Fire melted the snow, creating a pit that was 10 to 15 feet deep.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Unable to move or find food, they were officially stuck. So I don't know if you can imagine this, but imagine like 20 people in a 10 to 15 feet deep pit of snow with a fire in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Yep. That's what I'm saying. And then like everything in the middle is just mud.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

And it's like I was watching a one of those like uh survivor wilderness videos on YouTube one time, and the guy did that. He like cleared out like a bunch of snow and he made a fire in the middle, but then he had to spend a ton of energy elevating his bed using logs, because when that snow melts, it turns your whole campsite into a swamp. Which then in in in winter snow survival, there's a phrase out there uh if you sweat, you die. Because that sweat can't evaporate. And it's the same thing here that water can't evaporate because it's too cold, and if you get wet, that's it. You're you're kind of screwed. And oh, and that storm, like if you remember on the first episode, this is something the the storm in this part of America, it doesn't drop like inches of snow in a night, it drops like feet of snow a night. So, like that that 10 to 15 feet pile, that was probably like in the course of a day.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Oh, yeah. It was just overnight that that happened.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Jeez. That's terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah, it's really scary. All right, chapter 10, Mr. Stark and Mr. Eddie.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

That's a good name. I like Eddie.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Bum bum! Back at the camp. I I yeah, I really like the name of that chapter.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

I th I thought it was good the way you said it.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Yeah, it's like Iron Man and Mr. Eddie.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

Actually, kind of. What I thought of Peabody and Sharm, but yes. It's exactly Tony Stark.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

So just a reminder, uh William Eddie um was the I guess you could call him the hero of the Forlorn Party. Um, and I'll introduce you to Mr. Stark here soon. But back at the camp in Bear Valley, so now we're in the Sacramento area where we're that we're in that camp where all of the people are trying to get to this is the rescue rendezvous point. They have been attempting to put together another rescue party. Finding people to risk their lives for the Donner Party was no easy task, especially while the Mexican-American War was still going on down south. Despite this, they were able to get together enough supplies with the aid of Captain Hole of the U.S. Navy. The two Williams found two other men who would be paid fifty dollars. Another man named Mr. Stark agreed to volunteer, but he didn't want to get paid. When he agreed to go, he said, I will go without any reward beyond that derived from the consciousness of doing a good act. Good on him.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

In other words, he's trying to make up for some karma.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Maybe. But I like Mr. Stark, and I don't want to uh think about him that way. I just want to think that he's a good dude. She said, actually, actually, no, you're probably right, but I'm not gonna believe that because I like Stark.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Well, there's nothing wrong with that, trying to make up for bad karma.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Don't steal the glory.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

But that's uh he's one of those nice guys.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Yeah, he's a nice dude. I like him. I I picture him in my head like um the oh, what's his name? Oh, who was the wrestler from the 80s who was in Princess Bride? Andre the Giant.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

I picture him in my head like Andre the Giant. Stone Cold Steve Austin. Andre the Giant.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Yes, exactly. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

The first wrestler that came to my brand, honestly. Booker T boy.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

No, I think of Andre the Giant. Um, and there's a reason for that. We'll keep going.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Luckily, the weather cleared by the eighth and remained clear for a couple of weeks. So that's good. And that's just to keep track of time. The storm started on the fourth, and our uh friends from the second relief party got stuck between the fourth and the fifth, so now we're at the eighth. They're still there. On the eighth, James Reed and some others who were able to dig stairs into the wall of the snow, they were determined to write ahead to get help for those who remained around the fire. Here he made oh sorry, he made it to Johnson's ranch back in Bear Creek, in short order. The third relief party intercepted him. So Mr. Stark and Mr. Eddie. They intercepted him and quickly uh he told them what was going on and you know, help. We have a bunch of people stuck in a giant pit of snow. Quickly they followed Reed's directions and left towards the pass. Back in Bear Valley, we're going back and forth, sorry. Captain Tucker and the first relief party stumbled into the camp safely. Yay! We're safe. The first relief party made it. Woo woo woo-woo woo.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

This is the this is the first rescue party that made its way back, and hopefully nothing happened.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yes. Okay, we made it back safe. Virginia and her siblings and her mom all made it out safe. They were given provisions and a safe place to rest. Out of the 21 people who were rescued, 19 survived the journey, including Reed's entire family, minus the two little ones in the cabins. They're still in the cabins.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

On March 12th, so now we're eight, nine, ten, four days after. On March 12th, the seven men of the third relief party had found the members in what was dubbed the starved camp, deep in a pit of snow. Eleven had survived. We have 11 people out of 17, 18, like 21 people, I think, survived. And they survived by eating the dead when food ran out. Hate that. They were there for 10 days. 10 days. William Eddie, and I'm sorry, just FYI, this is kind of rough. I think I left some stuff out, but William Eddie described what he found later in an interview. The fire at the starved camp had melted the snow down to the ground, bare dirt. And the hole thus made was about 15 feet in diameter and 24 feet deep. 24 feet deep.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Jeez.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

As the snow had continued to melt, they, the survivors, made steps in which they ascended and descended. The picture of distress was shocking indeed. Yeah, I left out the grass stuff. Oh but I'm sure your imaginations will do that for me. The third relief party decided to split up. Mr. Stark, Stone, and Howard Oakley would stay and return the eleven survivors to Bear Valley. Eddie, Foster, and the remainder of the group would continue to the camps at the lake. Alright, so we got Mr. Stark staying with the 11 people in the pit, and Mr. Eddie finishing the trip to help everybody else. Stone, Stark, and Oakley had discussed how to proceed. Stone and Oakley brought up one child each and said that was all they could do. And just to be fair to the these guys, the pit's 24 feet deep and they're carrying two kids.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

That is not an easy feat to like it's not easy. I couldn't do one, so yeah. Good on them, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Yeah, good on them. Like fair.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

They were built different back then, that's for sure. People were built differently back then.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

Yeah. No, this is why I like Stark so much, and this is why I think of Andre the Giant. Stark disagreed. He was like, no, no, no, no. Instead, well, what they wanted to do was they wanted to leave the rest. So Stone and Oakley were like, we can only save one. We have to, you know, sacrifice everybody else. We can only save these two. Stark was like, no, we're not doing that. Stark was like, I will save the nine remaining people while you guys can take your one.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Jeez.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

And with a backpack and an axe on his back, he began going down into the pit, picking up children two at a time, and the adults one at a time. There were two adults. The breeds were the breeds were down there. Going up and down multiple times, he made the children laugh, joking that they were so light due to the lack of food that he could probably carry them all if his back were big enough.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

Everybody want a peanut?

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

And he said he would not rest until all nine of them were out of the pit. Go, Mr. Shark. James Breen. Period King. Right? James Breen, Patrick Breen's son, who was also in the pit, later said in an interview, to his great bodily strength and unexcelled courage, myself and others owe our lives. There was probably no other men in California at the time who had the intelligence, determination, and what was absolutely necessary to have in that emergency. Stark and his companions returned the survivors to Bear Valley, where they could finally rest peacefully. Tears. So high five to Mr. Stark. Gosh. Andre. Go.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

Sorry. Sorry. I'll slow down.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

History's first recorded incident of Popeye.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Right. Nine people out of a 24 foot deep pit.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Through snow. Like you gotta try to pull them out of a snow pit. Like that. It's not like the snow was very structurally sound.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

And two of them were deep. I can't even walk on snow, honestly. So the fact that you can carry people out of the snow like stably and how deep was that pit? 24 feet? 24 feet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

Are you joking? I'm barely four feet. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Yeah, that's like the height of a two-story house.

SPEAKER_03 51:48

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

To put it in perspective, that's how far down they were. It was like two stories.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Yeah. Nope. It's craziness. The remainder of the third relief party made it to Truckee Lake on March 14th. So now we're with uh William Eddie and William Foster. Between the second relief party and the third, the only people who remained alive were five children, Tamson Donner, George Donner, surprisingly, Keysberg, and Clark. William Eddie and William Foster were devastated to learn that their wives and children had perished when they got there. Yeah, I was just about to say, wait, what about the kids? Yeah, I hate this. I know. Back at the Alder Creek camp, Tamson Donner was still strong enough despite all that she had been through, despite her personal health. She remained with her dying husband when asked to leave. She's still a remain. Kieseburg, who is now bedridden and surviving from cannibalizing the dead, also refused to leave. Kiesberg is interesting. I don't know what how to feel about him.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Overall, though, the Williams, William Foster, William Eddie, left with five children and Mr. Clark. They had to leave George Donner there because he was too weak to leave and they knew that he wasn't going to make the trip. And Tamson still refused to leave.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

That sucks. Like, especially That's crazy. Like, one, it sucks for the people that are alive. Like, hey, uh you're not gonna make it. Like, how do you have that conversation? And then to actually be George Donner himself, like, well, I guess I'm dying here.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Yeah, I just don't know how you can rationalize that in your head.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

And then his wife, who's like split in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

Yeah, it's like his wife has to like be stuck in this middle place where she's like, I could continue and try to continue life, or I could sit here and hope for the best. And she chose the hardest one. I would say.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Meanwhile, I'm too lazy to go downstairs and make a sandwich.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

I literally ask my children to go get my phone off of the anything. Like, can you please go get my phone? Like, you're right there. I'm like, please can you go get it? But like it's you're so much closer. You have no idea the the trauma I will have to withstand in order to get it.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

You guys don't know what I've been through.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

You haven't walked a day in my shoes, children. Please go get the dang phone. Like, stop making this difficult for me. Mr. Stark. I already have it hard enough, okay?

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Mr. Stark climbing two stories of snow with children in his back.

SPEAKER_03 54:24

Yeah. You know, I could I think I could do that. I could probably do that. Uh-huh. I could totally do that. In my dreams. In my dreams of dreams and dreams.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

One thing I do want to add that I I I don't think we really paid attention to. Um, this is like 10,000 feet elevation. So it's not like there's a lot of air. Like I'm sure they're acclimatized to it, but like even 6,000 feet, you feel that.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I can't only imagine what it must be like a 10th as I'm an asthmatic. Just like, geez.

SPEAKER_03 54:58

I would collapse halfway up. Yeah. I mean, like, what if one of had with the what if they had what if one of them had asthma and they didn't even know it? Like, what if Andre the Giant had freaking asthma and half of a lung and he didn't even know it?

SPEAKER_00 55:12

He would have made it. Yeah, he I think it wouldn't matter if he had tuberculosis. I feel like that guy would have figured it out.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Yeah, that that guy props. Yeah, he could be gangrenous and be dying of every gonosyphase you can think of.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Well, the three of us are passing out watching somebody else do this.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

Literally getting our butts kicked and kickballed by middle school because we can barely run to the next base at sea level. We did our best, champions.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

Oh no. Alright. Overall, William Eddie and his men left with five children and Mr. Clark. They'd make it back to Bear Valley safely before the end of March. So we made it, friends. A fourth relief party was organized, but it was delayed until April due to blizzards rolling through the Sierras. The winter of 1846 and 1847 was subsequently documented as the most severe winter recorded in Sierra Nevada to that date. That's bad luck.

SPEAKER_04 56:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Right? Give them a break. During that time, so during the period between March and April, George Donner had died at Alder Creek camp. After he died, Tamson hiked the seven miles to the cabins to find survivors. While there she met with Kieseburg, who is now seemingly mad because he was eating a lot of human flesh, but he was alive.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

That was your choice, sir. He chose good consequences and we have bad consequences with our choices. Uh but also like here's the thing though.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

The thing with Kiesberg is okay. Survival, bro. He could have gone with that last relief party and he chose not to. So yes, you are in a survival situation where you have to go to those extremes to survive, but he didn't go with that other relief party. It's not like Tamson, who stayed chose to stay with her husband. So he's an interesting person.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Unfortunately, Tamson did not survive the night. What? She hiked there. What? She found Kiesberg in his cabin and then she died overnight. And they think she died of exposure. But also, also, Kiesberg, after he was rescued, said that he ate her. Oh, I get off with his head. Off with his head. I know. It's bad.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

I'm so first of all, you hit me with the the the gut-wrenching information that she died. She didn't even make it through the night. Right. And then you tell me that homeboy over here, Mr. Cannibal Killer. Yeah. Like, room is like. I'm gonna make it worse.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

I'm so upset. I'm sorry. I'm gonna make it worse. And then and then we'll get to the better things, okay? The fourth relief, okay. Here we go. The fourth relief party arrived at Truckee Lake in mid-April. They found one survivor, Mr. Kiesberg. He was found in one of the cabins. He was found in one of the cabins surrounded by eaten body parts in various states. He has also been hoarding gold and jewelry from fallen members of the party. Off at the side. When the rescuers picked him up and they towed him back to Sutter's Fort. So he was the rage going through my fingertips right now. He was hoarding jewelry and stuff from the people he was eating.

SPEAKER_03 58:47

Do you want me to tell you how I feel about this guy?

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Because I'll tell you how I feel about this guy.

SPEAKER_03 58:51

I don't like him. He's not my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

I don't like that at all. I felt the same thing when I was thinking about it. Um, and then I wanted to read more about him later. I think I wrote about it. Let me see. Yeah, I I I feel like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

I kind of want to know more about this guy because I feel like there's more to him than what is meeting the eye. Because you you would in a situation like this, I feel like you would have somebody that would like hoard the the gold and jewelry and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 59:26

You have to have someone stingy.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Uh well, no, not I'm not saying necessarily stingy, but you gotta have somebody that can keep track of all that for when like then how does it get back to civilization and and all that because you really it's useless there. So like it wouldn't make sense.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

But there's dead bodies everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

Well, that's the other side of it too, though. It's just like, yeah, on one hand, he's got all this stuff that he's been hoarding, but then there's also partially eaten bodies and and whatnot. Like, I feel like there's a lot going on there. I'm leaning towards kind of being. In douchebag, like and the spectrum of being sounds like a mess. Yeah, like there's a spectrum of like a normal human being and then douchebag. I feel like he leans more towards that direction, but I feel like there's gotta be more to his story than what we know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

I want to yeah, I want to know more about him because I want to know about like who he is as a person before making judgments. You know, because like this is yeah, this is a survival situation where you have to survive and like and you have to do and you have you know, you have to go to whatever measure you have to go to in order to survive. Like, I I fully understand that I will never blame or judge anyone for that, but like who you were before that will also give me a little bit of an inkling as like if your intention is like true survival or if it was because honestly, like people are twisted. You never know. Like he could have been some guy who was just like stingy and then decided, like, okay, I'm in this right, you know, the spider flight situation. I'm gonna eat all these guys and then I'm gonna take all their money. I don't know, you know what I mean? So I'd like to know more about who he was before this before casting too much judgment, but I don't like him honestly. So far.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

I'm right there with you. Like I'm leaning towards him being a douchebag, but like this is just how it's being presented to us, right? This is the narrative that is being presented to us from somebody else's perspective. So they're kind of like like they're they're calling all the shots.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

Yeah, this is what the relief party feels. Yeah, you can only read so much before.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:39

Yeah, um, I will say that I did find a resource with more information about Keysburg, what happened before, what happened after. There was a whole court case about Keysburg. Um, what I'll do is I will um paste that bad boy if I haven't already in the notes, because I just realized that I did not type up the aftermath of Kiesberg when I thought I was going to, but that's okay. Um, so I will make sure to put that resource in here that way if anybody is interested, you can read more about him. Um, because he is an interesting figure, and I had the same feel same exact feelings and thought process. It was like, this guy sucks, and blah, blah, blah. But really, like, let's read about him, you know. So that's why I was saying he's an interesting person that I have mixed feelings about because I really don't like how his story ended, but at the same time, I can't judge him for what he chose to do. Where did his story begin?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:38

Yeah, 100%. You know what you should do? You should do like a little mini like update, like mini episode about him just to like give us more information about him. Because I don't know, I got a lot of questions. I can do that. I could do my own research, but you know, I am lazy. I don't like to go get my own phone.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

I can totally do it. I can also write about it and put it in my little Karas Corner section of the website.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:58

Yep. Oh, yeah, that would be good. Yeah, I like that idea because yeah, I want to I definitely want to know more about his choices previously.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

Let me note that so I don't forget. Sorry if you hear typing everybody who's listening to you. Because I will. Oh, but it's true. Everyone listen. Oops.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Yeah, and he was also like the last survivor of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

Yes, so he was the last person rescued.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

Lord knows what his state of mind was being the last person out.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:29

I also, but I also kind of don't okay. Listen, maybe it's because I watch way too much horror stuff and listen to too much true crime, but like last man standing kind of gives a little bit of sus vibes to me. Um it's like, you know, how like there's the family massacre, and the son is the only one alive, and he's like, oh my god, I don't know what happened, but really like he's behind it. It gives me a little bit of like that kind of thing. Like there's more, like, there's definitely more, and it feels a little bit more in malice than in like more survival, if that makes sense. Like it was a it was just like an okay decision, and it wasn't a hard decision to make, you know, which is not okay to me. I don't like that. You should have to think a couple times before eating someone, at least three for sure. I get that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Yeah, I'll uh I'll do more research on Keysburg and and write something up for you. Oh shall do it. All right, so before we get to our final chapter, I'm going to leave this section with a quote from Virginia in a letter to her cousin. She writes, My dear cousin, we're all very well pleased with California. It is a beautiful country, it ought to be a beautiful country to pay us for our trouble getting there. Tell Henrietta if she tells if she wants to get married to come to California, she can get a Spaniard anytime. Virginia Reed.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:54

Love that. Love that high hopes, optimism. We love that love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

All right, chapter 11, the aftermath. So we're just gonna wrap it up here. The final relief party arrived at Bear Valley on April 25th, 1847. It was one year and 11 days after the Donna Party left Springfield, Illinois. It was supposed to take six months. Tops.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:18

A three-hour tour.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:21

The fact that it was supposed to just take, just take six months. Is already crazy. A year of non-stop fight or flight. I mean, I've had like 30 years of it, but that's crazy. That's a lot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

They began with 87 men, women, and children. Of those 87, 42 would perish, while 45 survived the ordeal. All of the reeds survived, all of the breeds survived. For the Doners, all four adults died, four children died, but nine children survived.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

Those numbers, if you're looking from like a company standpoint, those numbers aren't bad. Like, if you look at like what they had to I guess, like a lot of people died. A lot of people died, and that's not fun, right? But like, given how many people went and how many people made it, I feel like those are pretty good numbers.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Yeah, like it could have been way worse.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

Oh, yeah, like it could have just been Kingsburg for all I know. You know what I mean? Yeah, I get that. That would have sucked. I would have been so I would have been so angry. For me, oh man, I've been so angry.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

For me, it's the uh of the Donner children, like nine survived. And like, how do you have a Thanksgiving meal after that, knowing how many people, including your all the adults, past like they're basically orphans, so they are orphans. Well, I don't know if they have relatives that could move out and stuff like that. But but yeah, these kids are just on their own now.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

Yeah, let's call up and are taken in by just getting family members or friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

For sure. It's just that's gotta just be a rough flat reunion, like just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

Generally speaking, the um it's kind of agreed that the donors got at the worst in terms of oh for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:17

Yeah, I definitely think that they went through a lot. They went through a lot. Um, and just to for a long time too, for them to for the adults to live for as long as they did and then pass away. Like George, George and Jacob were in their 60s.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Tanson was in her forties, if I remember right, her late 40s. That's crazy. Um, just to kind of sum it up a little bit, so we can kind of on the grand scope of things from when we left Springfield, Illinois to when we got to Johnson's Ranch, five died on their way to the camps, so on their way to the lake. Thirty-four died at the camps, and one died after they reached Johnston's Ranch. Most of the survivors were physically affected by the journey, of course, due to frostbite or malnutrition. Many were also psychologically disturbed after what they endured, witnessed, or what they had to do to survive. And it just people dealt with it differently or they moved forward differently, as you can imagine. I didn't get a lot of information or details in terms of like the psychological effects.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

Um, it was hard to find, probably because you know, it's also gonna be hard to it's gonna be hard to define because what what textbook, what what psychology textbook would have tips and tricks on how to handle something like this? Like there isn't. How do you how can you tell if somebody's coping in a healthy way or not? Like you can't because what do you compare it to?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:00

Um, one thing I did find really interesting though was that even after this, a lot of the people who survived this still try to encourage people to come to California and travel, but just don't take the shortcut. I thought that was really interesting. They were like, no, still travel out here, you know, just do it safely. Um, so let's go into a little bit of detail in terms of the survivors, just because I know I would probably be chewed out if I didn't. So the Donner's three daughters, the ones that left with the Third Relief Party, Eliza, George, and Frances, they were taken in by a Swiss family in California. They all grew up and they got married and they had children of their own. Eliza had collected the accounts of her sisters along with her own memories and put them together in a book called The Expedition of the Donner Party and its tragic fate, published in 1911. I'm sure you could find that if you ever want to read it. Jacob Donner's oldest son was rescued by the first relief party at the age of nine. He would grow up in California, he got married, and he had eight kids. Mary Donner was rescued by Stark from the starve camp. She was seven. Her frostbitten foot healed over time, and she lived until 1860 after having a daughter. James Reed would publish his notes and letters to various newspapers, spreading his accounts across the country. He settled his family in San Jose, where he farmed and participated in civil affairs. He lived until 1874. Virginia Reed was 13 when the first party rescued her. She had written her account of the events in a letter to a cousin in Illinois. The letter was published in an Illinois journal in 1847. You can still read most of it. In 1891, she also wrote a memoir for another magazine that was published. It's less accurate due to the time that had passed, of course. You know, memories are can they can be fickle. But it is better written. So it's it's easier to read because the spelling's better, the writing's better. You know, obviously she's much older. Um, but we or historians like to go by the letter to her cousin for historical accuracy. Her younger siblings had all survived and they all grew up in San Jose. Today the city has streets named after James, Virginia, Margaret, and Martha. So you can go to San Jose and you can they have streets named after them. I thought that was interesting. Patrick Breen and his family did not actively publish their accounts like the Reeds did. The diary of Patrick Breen was published anonymously at first. Um that kind of just highlights the contrast between his perspective of having that recognition versus the Reeds who just outwardly published everything. James Stark rescued Patrick, Reed, and his wife from the starving camp in 1847. The family lived peaceful, quiet life in San Juan Bautista on a ranch with seven children. So they didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

Yeah, you slam out as many kids as possible. Like that was the priority back then, is just have as many kids as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

Right. The letters and diary entries published in newspapers slowly slowed migration down. So the story got out and people took the accounts very, very seriously. Like they were scared.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

A sharp decline in immigration occurred, and you can see it in like census numbers and official paperwork. Um, it occurred throughout 1847 and early 1848. The Hastings cutoff was officially abandoned. I would hope so.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:40

That's the shortcut, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

Oh, really? That's the shortcut. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, was it? I that was abandoned. Good choice. Yeah, good choice. And then in 1848, in January, gold was discovered at John Sutter's Creek while Sutter and his men were building a mill near the fort. I thought that was really interesting that John Sutter, the guy who was helping these people cross, was also the guy who discovered gold in California starting the gold rush.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:11

Yeah. And I can't remember, but I thought it was John Sutter. I would have to double check it. But there was like the whole California gold rush thing started because there was a dude that was trying to build like a commune for like women, and he was out trying to find a certain mineral that you make shampoo out of, and then that's where he found gold, and then it all exploded.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

I would check that because I read that he was trying to build a mill near his fort.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Okay. Yeah, it was some it was it was a show back on the uh history channel. Uh it was like the history world channel because that was like the only thing that was still showing history. And uh there was a show on there that kind of talked about like how these really famous moments in human history kind of start from like really abstract, weird things. And this was also, I remember listening to this, you know, 25 years ago. So my memory is probably uh a little trash. So I'll have to double check that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

And if that's true, that that I think that's a cooler story than just building a mill.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:22

But let's adopt that story. Yeah. Tell that story. Let's rewrite history. Literally.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:32

The news of gold hit San Francisco, and from there it spread like wildfire. By 1949, hundreds of thousands of immigrants made their way to California looking for fortune. The stories of the Donner Party remain memorable, but no longer deterred travelers to try to strike it rich. In 1850, following the conclusion of the Mexican-American War in 1848, California was officially admitted as a state by the U.S. government, and over the years, traffic over the pass, now called Donner's Pass, has increased, turning into a well-traveled road, though not so much in the winter. The name of Truckee Lake was changed to Donner Lake. It turned into its tourist attraction and a popular vacation spot with hints of its haunting past sprinkled throughout. Today, Donner Lake is a memorial state park with memorial, statues, markers, and museum commemorating the Donner party and telling their story. And I am going to leave you with one final quote from our our girl Virginia. I'ma cry.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:33

Hold on, let me get my let me get my tissues. Get your tissues. Uh this is Virginia's always got some bars.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:38

She she does. Um, and this is in her letter to her cousin. Oh Mary, I have not wrote you half of the trouble we've had, but I have wrote you enough to let you know what the trouble is. But thank God we are the only family that did not eat human flesh. We have left everything. We have left everything, but I don't care for that. We have got through with our lives. Don't let this letter dishearten anybody. Remember, never take no cutoffs and hurry along as fast as you can.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:14

Virginia Reed. Say it again for the people in the back. Please, Virginia Reed.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:20

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:21

Please, Virginia Reed. Tell us one more time. Remember, never take no cutoffs. Period. End of story. Better hurry up. And that's it. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Wow. What an adventure. Yeah, dude. I'm horrified. It's rough. Have to relive this all over again. And it was like way more interesting than what I ever knew, like what I ever retained. So I'm like learning this again. I'm like, oh God. It's worse than I was even told. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:06

Oh it's it's bad. Like it's really bad. But then at the same time, you have these moments of just epic humanity.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

Of people, you know, stepping in and doing the right thing even when they don't want to. Oh, 100%. Like all of the men in the relief parties, like Stark, like Reed and Eddie.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:27

Yeah. The people that like, yeah, the people that like stayed back to help the children and everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

Yeah. And then you have crazy moments of bravery from little kids. Yeah. Like, Ma, if you don't if you don't see me again. If you don't make it, do the best you can.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:44

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:45

Or Virginia holding your entire family together. Like it's a whole thing. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Yeah, it's what these are this is one of those moments in human history that, as terrible and tragic as they are, they kind of have to happen in a way because it really shows you that rarely seen human drive, right? You we look at these human beings, and here we are supposed to be the most advanced animal on the face of this planet and all the other fun stuff, and but yet you take us out of our house, our houses, and away from our grocery stores, and away from our cell phones, and we're good for like maybe an hour in the wilderness. But then you have people like this that just man, they just survive the worst of the worst, and they get to move on. They move on, they have families. I mean, how many thousands of people are now descended from these folks? And now, like they whatever genetically those survivors had that made them superior and better, and all that kind of stuff physiologically, that gets passed on, and then you add in the stories and their accounts and how they viewed things, how they got through it. It just further reinforces that whole like humans don't suck as much as we think they do. But these also the same events also bring out the worst in humanity. And thankfully, I think a lot of that kind of gets like swept away. It like we don't focus on that too too much.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:36

So yeah, that that's a that's an epic story. That that's a yeah, that's yeah, that is a that's like a dumpster fire that's more like a landfill fire, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:49

That's a global fire. Yes, yeah, the biggest tire fire on the planet. It's like the the wor like the worst thing you could do is eat another person. And it happened a couple times too. Like this is a big fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:07

Well, I'm glad though, like the people weren't criticized. I don't feel like they were criticized for having to do that. I think a lot of people, and maybe, maybe that was just like California at that time, they'd be like, well man, that sucks that you had to eat people, but good on you. Like, you know, versus say like on the East Coast, where you would have way more traditional, like, no, no, no, you're good Christians and you're gonna burn in hell for that, when that's not the case at all. So yeah, I'm just glad though that these people weren't portrayed as like some weird terrible cults. Yeah. These were people that people, yeah. This is this is what they had to do to survive. It wasn't their first option. So I'm glad it didn't get twisted.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:56

Yeah, this isn't the Appalachian Mountains, babe. They had to survive.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:00

Yes. So that's that's an epic one, Karen.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:05

What? Oh, what a ride. Another one in the books. I'm glad you like that. Oh another another one bite bites the flesh. I mean the dust.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:17

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:20

Sorry, guys. I had to do it. I'm really sorry. I really shamelessly had to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:26

It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:27

Um I feel marginally bad for making the jokes that I did earlier, but that's also how I was gonna come back to that and be like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:37

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:38

But that that's that's how I get through tough stuff like this. Yeah. Is just uh you gotta laugh at certain things in order to get through it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:47

Sometimes it's a it's sometimes you have to laugh at a funeral. It's the only thing you can do. Yes. You know, if you you know, sometimes you have to laugh at a funeral, it's the only thing you can do. As long as it's been over a hundred years for sure. Right. That's fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

Um, with all of that being said, Ed, do you have a palate cleanser?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:06

I do. Yes, I think pretty much anything would be a palate cleanser after something like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:15

Um no.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

That's still too soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:20

Um and we're gonna talk about politics.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

Here we go. Yeah, oh yeah, politics. That would be a great one. No, I've I've I've got I I'm I'm kind of diving into movies a little bit. I I feel like that's one area we haven't really covered all that much. That, you know, okay, we're gonna get the best of the best actors, we're gonna get like the best storyline, we're gonna throw in all these special effects, like we're gonna check all the boxes, and there's no way this movie can do poorly in in the theaters, and then it just absolutely flops. So that's that's what I'm working on. I'm working on uh Kevin Costner's uh Waterworld from back in the day, uh 1995, where this movie had so much going for it, and then when it actually hit the theater because of the really, really, really bad decisions that were done in the process of trying to make the movie, the tabloids ran with it and kind of railroaded it into the ground. Like it was basically what is it, review trolled or review bombed. It was review bombed before it even hit theaters, and it lost an exorbit amount of money. But there's a lot of like mini, like funnier stories and and all that, so which is funny in its own way because like I actually liked Waterworld. I didn't think it was that bad of a movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:57

Oh, I just laugh at it every time I see it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

Yeah, like it's almost like a cult, it's like a cult classic now, and it's uh and it actually does like if you look at the original or the director's cut, you know, the writers did make some pretty compelling arguments about how we're treating the world today, but oh my goodness, this some of the decisions that they had when you had people like Steven Spielberg that is like, guys, don't film it in the ocean, film it in a studio. Like, I I get it, it will look staged, but don't go out in the middle of the ocean, and then like two weeks later, they're in the middle of the ocean and they lose everything just because like like so many people gave really, really good advice on how to make this movie and they didn't follow any of it. And um yeah, so there's a lot of funnier stories in it. There's gonna be a lot of uh uh like little anecdotes and just moments that'll make you scratch your head.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:02

Uh no one die.

unknown 1:25:04

Okay, god.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:05

Nobody dies, but some people get hurt, and there was like one dude that got lost in a jet ski for like a day sweet in the middle of the ocean.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:13

Okay, so I will take that if he's uh if no one died. I will be here for the next episode if no one died.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:23

Yes, it doesn't sound like it's nobody dies in this. It's uh it's just one of those things is like how do they think that this is one of these things where like they try to plan out everything so that you ask the question what could possibly go wrong, but it's a little different in that you can see how they planned out everything, and you're like, I I know exactly I can tell this is gonna just fail miserably.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:49

Perfect, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:51

So yes, it's gonna be one of those things where we get to watch other people make bad decisions, and we can tell from the very beginning, like, oh, this isn't going to work.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:00

This is gonna be good.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:02

Yeah, like content. So, yeah, that that's what I've got coming up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:10

Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:11

Well, that sounds like a perfect palette cleanser. Yeah, I won't bring you guys a palette cleanser. I will bring you guys something to need a palette cleanser for.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:20

I have a palette cleanser in the making, so we'll make it the work.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:26

Yeah, it sounds like our next couple of episodes of coming out are gonna be lighter. Like they're gonna be a little more uh back to our roots of comedic maybe not deja, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:38

I'm like, I might be the Debbie Downer here, but yeah, we'll have to we'll have to roller coaster.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:44

That's fine. I I spent a month and a half being the Debbie Downer, and it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:48

Honestly, I don't know how your mental health is doing right now, especially because it's the end of the school year as well, and you had to read about cannibalism. So I'm very proud of you, Kara.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:59

Thank you. Um, I'll show you what my next episode is going to be, and you can see why I'm doing great. With all of that being said, De Health on Tier.

unknown 1:27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:07

Now keep in mind, Deja, she's gonna leave me out of it. She's just gonna tell you all of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:12

Well, I was showing you all of my sources yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:15

I know, I know. I'm just giving you crap because I have this labeled on our recording software as Kara Surprise Part 3.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:27

But you have to do an episode where you tell me and not Ed, and so I can like give him crap about it and be like, I know, and you don't. Hee hee hee hee hee hee.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:37

I'll see what other disastrous historical event I can find.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:41

Oh my god, I will gaslight him so hard. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:45

On that note, you're gonna be like, No, we told you, Ed, we told you all this time. You just ignored us.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:50

Like, we don't have a podcast. What are you talking about? Jeez. What do you mean you mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:55

Um, if you would like to contact us or if you have any ideas for a podcast episode topic, uh, you can email us at thedaysdumpsterfire at gmail.com. You can also message us or text us using the little text message code thingy on each episode. You can reach us at our website at uh thedaysdumpsterfire.com. We are also on Instagram at thedaysdumpsterfire. And I think that's all I got right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:25

So make sure you hit the website.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:27

Yep, I said that.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:29

Yes. Well, and the big thing too with the website is to make sure you hit the website because there you can find us on yeah, but we have links that go straight to bot Spotify or iTunes or Amazon or whatever. So that makes it easier to subscribe to us. And then don't forget too, because Kara, I'm sorry, you do a really bad job self-promoting your artwork.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:52

That's because I haven't put I haven't put it up yet. It's not up there yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:56

I know, I know, but I I but I I am I I'll do the job for you of promoting your artwork. Uh guys, go on there, check it out. She likes to do a lot of themed stuff, and it's pretty pretty cool stuff. And yet, and we're thinking about maybe uh uh making prints that we could put for sale on there. And uh yeah, the the artwork is usually a good like the vibe of the artwork really matches the vibe of the show. So be sure to go check it out.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:27

Yeah, it's it's great, it's fantastic. Sweet. Very good.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:32

Very good. I'm gonna end it and say keep it a hot mess.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:37

Ah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:38

Keep it the hottest mess. The hottest, the hottest mess, like Paris.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:42

Keep it, keep it like a steaming mess.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:45

Perfect. We'll catch you guys next time. All right, all right. We'll see you later. Okay, bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:51

All right, see y'all later.