Episode 45: God, Why Is This Happening??

Why do bad things happen to good people? It's one of the hardest questions we can ask. In this episode, we dive into what Scripture says about suffering, pain, and God's goodness. Through biblical truth and personal stories, we discuss how to trust God when life doesn't make sense and find hope in the reality that, despite living in a broken world, God is still in control, and His victory is secure.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Social Podcast, where we help young adults go deeper in their faith by exploring topics relevant to you. Separate from our weekly sermon series, this podcast addresses questions that young adults are seeking answers to. With that in mind, let's get started with today's episode of the Social Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

What is up, Social Podcast? We are back with another episode. We know you missed us, so we just had to bring it back. We're in the studio with the one and only Sammy Arizaga. What is up, peeps? And Caitlin Love.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Your favorite three co-hosts. So, hey, Caitlin, we do something every podcast. What you got for us?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Okay, so our question of the pod is what is the worst thing that has ever happened to you? And I don't actually mean that. Like unserious answers only.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Wrong answers only. Unpacking our deepest trauma on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

We're not gonna hear that out here. Sammy, what you got?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Oh gosh. Um, okay, so mine is probably so my sophomore year of high school went on a choir trip to New York City. And the day we got there, we went to the Rockefeller Center and we were just hanging out there, you know, having a good time, um, just looking at all the sites. Um, they had a Lego store there. I remember that was the thing I loved the most, and it was awesome. Um, and then as we're getting ready to leave, I'm like tossing some stuff in the trash or like messing with my backpack. I can't remember exactly, but they gave us all like our tickets for the whole week. So, like to tickets for the tour bus, tickets to the 9-11 museum, um, tickets to like at the Broadway shows we were gonna go watch, like all of that. And it was all in this package. Um, and I don't know what happened to the package. Um, I think I maybe threw it away or it fell out of my backpack or something like that. But um, all I know it was like maybe $200, $300 worth of tickets that we had already like spent money on to buy before the trip, and then I didn't find out until we were getting like in line to get on the bus. And I was like, I can't find my bus ticket, I don't know where it's at. And I was like freaking out. I was like telling my choir teacher, and I was just like, I don't know where it's at. And so I had to buy the tickets to all these things. Uh, every time we went to the like the station, I had to rebuy these to that tickets. So all the money I brought a lot of money, which is not like usually the case for me. But my mom was like, Oh, you're going to New York City, you don't know when you're gonna go again. Let's give you a lot of money so you can like get some cool stuff while you're there. And I was like, Yes, I love this. All that money I had for like spending money, I had to put on the tickets. That is so unfortunate. It was very unfortunate, and so it was also really embarrassing. I got bullied as a little sophomore in high school by all the um all the upperclassmen, and I was just like, dang. And so anytime we went on other trips after that, everyone would just like all my friends would hang on to my stuff for me, and I just I felt so embarrassed. And so, yeah, but I would like to say that I'm a little better now and I don't lose stuff as much, but I'm I'm like literally this close to buying like a air tag or something like that for my keys.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

I think you probably should.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah, I might have to.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

So listen, I'm not I'm not placing blame here, but that's rule number one with like traveling with kids is like whoever's in charge, the chaperone, they hold on to all the tickets. So, Sammy, I'm gonna I'm gonna say from my perspective, you should be let off the hook. Oh, I appreciate that. Hey, for me, um, also sophomore year of high school, so funny enough, but uh the worst thing that ever happened to me was I sprained my ankle. And I'm not talking just any old ankle sprain. This was like a high ankle sprain where if you've ever played or watched sports and if you've seen or gotten one of these things, they take forever to heal. And of course I'm stubborn, so I'm not gonna let this stop me. Um and I probably took like a week off where I just like put I was in bed one day and it was so bad I literally couldn't walk. I had to like hobble everywhere. And then I put on a brace and did whatever. But after that, I was just like, whatever, I'm just gonna play through the pain. And for two years, I dealt with on and off ankle sprains, and it was the worst. And I'm talking about like literally, I would just be walking to class and my ankle would just snag, and I'm like, oh, and I'm just hobbling to class. And it it took forever to get right, but I think it's good now. I haven't sprained my ankle in a while, but yeah, that is.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Two years, man. Yeah, it's still like that. It's crazy. Just walk into class and it just oh man, ouch. Wasn't easy. Caitlin, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Okay, so I don't remember what year this was, but family.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Sopheremo year of high school. I was a little older.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Family, it was during COVID. It was during COVID.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

And so not sophomore year of high school.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

No. And the family and the family got a new puppy, okay? And the puppy comes running from the woods, and I'm like, oh, so cute. And it jumps on me and my face. And little did I know that this little puppy had been rolling around a poison ivy. And so the next day I'm like, hmm, my lips feel weird. And then all of a sudden the poison ivy was on my lips, my ears, my mouth, I mean, everywhere. And it spread from head to toe. Luckily, it was COVID, so I could stay in my house for a full month. But I mean, it was it was horrible. I looked like a reptile, it was disgusting. I went to the doctor six times, maxed out on steroids. It was horrible, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah, so jacked.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

It was so bad. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah, getting jacked is a steroid. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Wait, wait, did the puppy itself like experience the poison ivy?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

No, it was just like on its fur. Like, they don't care. Oh, it's true. I'm just super susceptible to it.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

So Gosh, danger.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Do not come around me with poison ivy.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

That's brutal.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

That that sucks big time, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Oh, I admit that. Well, talking about stuff that's hard in our lives, today we're getting philosophical. We're asking ourselves the hard questions. Uh, you may know already by the title of this episode. But today we're asking, why do good or why do bad things happen to good people? Uh Caitlin, why don't you uh kick us off? What do you think? Why do why do good things happen to bad why do bad things happen to good people?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Okay, I think we have a lot of layers to this. And so we're gonna we're gonna get there. So keep on listening, keep on listening. But when we when we're talking about those good people, and I'm saying that in quotes, good people, we're kind of meaning, oh, those air quotes. We're kind of meaning like single moms or kids with cancer, um, widows, widowers. Those are the types of people that we're we're talking about when we're saying good people.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Right. Supposedly innocent people, right? Like we you might expect, you know, the Hitlers, the Stalins. We're like, okay, yeah, sure. Some people might take the stance of like bad things deserve to happen to those people, but what about the people who've never like committed genocide or you know, done these atrocious things? Why do bad things happen to these supposed air quote good people? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

You know, I feel like I have a like a personal testimony of this. And whenever my husband passed away, the amount of times that I heard like, you didn't deserve this, or why would why would this happen to a good person who loves Jesus so much? Like being a faithful follower of Christ does not dismiss you from hardships. It does not dismiss you from trials. And so when you step back and you look at the bigger picture as a Christian, I truly don't deserve anything. Like Jesus saved me. I was not deserving of salvation or his death, but he did that because he loves me so much. And so every single thing that I have in this life is just an abundance. And he does give us blessings and good gifts, but I'm not entitled to good things in an easy life. And I feel like this is where we can kind of get into trouble is when we start to believe that we are entitled to good things on this earth. And the only thing I am entitled to truly is a relationship with the Lord and eternal life. And that has absolutely nothing to do with me, but everything to do with him and what he did.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, and I think we see this all over the Bible too. Also important to note that this is a conversation that's been happening for thousands of years. People have been asking this question since uh evil has existed, which has always been the case since sin. Um, and so we're not going to be able to treat every aspect or answer every question, but we just really want to zoom in on, you know, what does the Bible have to say about this? And luckily we're exposed to, I would say, a real good selected handful of individuals who we could consider these good people across scripture that like some really messed up stuff happens. Like, you know, a classic example is when I think of the book of Job, right? If you read if you've read the book of Job before, you know that it starts off with um this guy, and he's uh considered blameless and upright, and it says that he's a man who fears God. But as a result of uh Satan and um all this stuff that happens to him, he loses basically everything his family, his livestock, um, his friends, and his like his health just deteriorates, and his wife is like, curse God and die. And he's like, No. Uh but if you keep reading the book, he really wrestles with why is this happening? Um, and so we see Job struggle with this stuff. We see David, who as a boy is anointed king over Israel. Um, but unfortunately, there's already a current sitting king, and he doesn't like the fact that he's been dethroned by a child. Yeah, um, and so he persecutes David, and David is considered a man after God's own heart, but he spends years and years and years on end uh wandering in the wilderness and being persecuted. And you're like, why is this bad stuff happening to David? Nothing he did nothing wrong, he was just anointed king. But I think the best example we have of bad things happening to good people in scripture is obviously Jesus, right? Um in Mark 10, it it's the rich young ruler comes up to Jesus and he says, Good teacher, uh, what must I do to inherit life? And Jesus says, Why do you call me good? Uh only God is good. Now he's not saying I'm not God, but he's really wanting to get to the intention of this guy's heart. Like, why do you call me good? I am good. He calls himself the good shepherd. So Jesus is good, and yet we see the most atrocious thing of all time happen to the only good and perfect person by him dying an unnecessary, uh unnecessary, and air quotes, it was necessary for salvation, but it was unmerited. He didn't do anything to deserve to die, and yet he still died. And so we see all across the Bible that there are plenty of examples of this bad things happening to uh good people, but at the at the same time, the Bible doesn't give necessarily uh an explicit answer.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Um that's what I was gonna ask. And so, like, we see all these different stories with like Job, David, um, and even Jesus. I mean, thinking back to when Jesus was like praying in the garden of Gethsemane, like, Lord, take if like do like let your will be done, and if this can be like taken, like take my cup from me. Like he was asking God, like, hey, if there's any other way, can you do it? But ultimately, Lord, let your will be done. Um, just like what do you think is like an answer to like okay, all these bad things are happening to good people, like, so what do we do about that as Christians? Or even, I don't know, maybe people that aren't listening to this, that aren't Christians, like, what do you do about that?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah, I think it's important to remember what the Bible is and what the Bible isn't, right? So the Bible is a book about how God is the creator and sustainer of all things, and about how he relates to his creation, um, ultimately by sending Jesus to die in our place so that we would be reconciled to God. That's what the Bible is. What the Bible is not is a philosophical book of answers in a textbook format that says, here are all the problems that you're gonna experience in the world, and here is the reason why, and here's how to solve it. That's not what the Bible is. The Bible is content with landing in the mystery and holding the things intention. Yeah. The Bible completely affirms that there is evil in this world. Yeah, and at the same time, it says that God is in full control over everything. I I remember uh reading Psalm 73 and just being um taken aback by it because the first bit of the book is this writer of the uh psalm, and he is just lamenting over the fact that bad people are getting away with bad things, and and and seemingly they're doing really well in life. And he's like, Lord, how can this happen? All these people, these unjust rulers are getting away with all this stuff, and no bad is coming to them. And you come to the turning point of the verse or of the psalm where it says that then I considered their end, and then it was all made clear. He went into the sanctuary of God and thought, you know what? No, evil does not win in the end. We all have to stand before God in judgment and give an account for what we've done. And so though it may seem like evil is out of control from our perspective, there's a God who is fully in control.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah. So going off of that, you said the evil in the end is going to lose. So then why in the first place is there evil right now? Like, why is that happening?

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Sin.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Like there is evil in this world because of sin. And I think also whenever we we ask this specific question of like, why do bad things happen to good people? And we put in air quotes for a reason. Right. And we don't want to just knock you while you're down, but like there, there's a myth here that there is a such thing as a naturally born good person. Like that's just not the case. That's not true. Right. And Genesis 3, we see the fall of man and sin entered the world. And Romans 3 23 says, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, every single one of us has sinned. And so there's no such thing as a good person. Right. And there's just that misconception that because you are maybe a part of a vulnerable population, that you are a good person. But the truth is that we're all born sinful and dead, and every single one of us is in need of a savior.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah. In my time um doing mission work in foreign countries and interacting with people, I come across this uh question a lot, right? Where it's like, well, I'm and you you talk to people and they're like, well, why are you going to heaven? You know, I'm gonna go to heaven because I'm a good person. Right. And it's like, well, what standard do we measure good? And I think where we get into trouble is when we measure good by person to person, right? Where it's I might be better than Sammy and Sammy's better than Caitlin, so therefore y'all are better than me. So you're going to heaven because I'm a dirty, rotten sinner, but but you guys, at least you're not as bad as me. You know, you haven't said the things I said, you haven't done the things I did. So because you haven't done what I did, you're therefore elevated. And this is this is really pride, right? At the root of it. But I think what's more helpful and what the the biblical case is, is that good is measured by the standard of God.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Right? God is perfect, blameless. Uh, he is in unapproachable light, as the Bible says. And this is the measure by which we are, or this is the standard by which we are measured, because if we're going to spend eternity with God, we have to be in likeness of God. And so when somebody says, Well, I'm a good person, they're the categories are wrong. They're measuring against other people instead of measuring against God. And so this is why, um, jokingly, I I say this with my friends, and whenever me and my brothers are uh in in town together, somebody will be like, Oh, he's a good person, and we'll kind of give him the side eye, you know, or it's like we understand what they're saying, and I'm not trying to be a Bible thumper where it's like everyone's a terrible person. It's like, no, I understand the sentiment you're making here. There's there's compassionate people, there are kind people, there are loving people, but all people are filled with sin and we are separated from God. And so when we think about why do good things, why do bad things happen to good people, we have to put good in air quotes because ultimately all of us have sin. And as you mentioned, Romans 3.23 and Romans 6.23, the wages of sin is death. Yeah, what you have earned as a result of your sin is not good things. In fact, it when people say, Why do bad things happen to good people? Honestly, if you're taking the biblical narrative at face value of what it says, when bad things happen to us, we're that's actually the course of how the world's supposed to go. We have all sinned and therefore we are reaping what we have sown. But yet, God, who is rich in mercy, gives us good gifts, even when we're not deserving of it. Air in our lungs, he has provided food for us, he has provided shelter for us. And you may be in lack of these things sometimes, but that doesn't mean there isn't a good God who's in control of the universe. It means that this world is sinful and broken. And I think what's important to remember is that God is not leaving the world this way, He is actively at work for the purpose of the redemption of this world and reconciling humanity to Himself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

So kind of going off of that, like God is actively at work right now. We know in the end that evil will be defeated and all will be restored and made new. So what do we do in the meantime while either we're in a season where just bad things keep on coming from left to right, or maybe we're just in a season where like that's we're stuck where there's not we can't really see almost like a pessimistic mindset, like, oh, there's no good, yada yada, all this like stuff on the news or whatever. So, like again, just going back to it, like what do we do in the meantime in the midst of all this bad things happening?

SPEAKER_02 17:08

You know, sometimes on this side of eternity, we may never know the why. Like we always want to ask the why. Yeah, we may never know the why. And that's a part of it of being like, you know what, I'm not gonna know, but I'm gonna trust the Lord anyway through it. Yeah, even if I don't know. And I think when we ask that question of like, okay, so why do bad things happen to good people? We can look at John 11. Like Lazarus is very sick. Mary Martha, come to Jesus, please come help. And Jesus says, this illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it. Like sometimes bad things happen so that the Lord may be glorified through it and through our circumstance and through us and how we work through it. Yeah. Um, James 1, 2 through 3, it talks about counting it all as joy when you meet trials of various kinds, and you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And so sometimes bad things happen to strengthen your faith and dependence on the Lord. And then you have sometimes the bad things happen because of natural consequences of our own actions. Sometimes we don't want to see that or admit that. But sometimes that that truly is the case. But I think as we're, if you're walking through that currently, if you're like, okay, but I'm in this right now, like maybe I'm the one that's experiencing bad things and maybe I thought I was a good person. Now I'm realizing I'm maybe not. Yeah. But maybe you're the one currently walking through it. And although every single person's trial looks different and their response to it looks different, there is a way that we can walk through hardship well and do it that honors the Lord. And so, first step is just like accepting what you wish were different. Like, yes, you wish the circumstance was different or whatever you're going through. But this leads to freedom, realizing that okay, it's not different. I'm not gonna dwell on it. Like, let's look toward the future. How is the Lord going to use this? Yeah. And so this kind of looks like letting go of control, giving that back to God. That's good. Um, we can be active in the healing process. Like it's not something we just have to sit and wait around on. We can get in the word, we can get into community, we can create margin to just slow down in life and just be in prayer and with the Lord. Right. And we also grieve differently. Like 1 Thessalonians 4.13 tells us that we do not grieve with the same that other people do because we have a hope. We have a hope in heaven that others who don't know the Lord, they don't have that. Yeah. And so realizing like this is not our home. It will not always be like this. Like we are living with the hope of heaven. And so I think just letting God use you, like let him use your life, including the bad and the really hard, for the purposes of building his kingdom. And we know that he works all things for those who love him, who've been called according to his purpose. And so he's increasing your usability. Like he's like, all right, you can be used now for mighty works. And you just never know the people that you can impact based off of your own bad things that have happened. Right. And you can bring glory to the God in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Caitlin, just to affirm you uh on this publicly, like I have seen in in public and behind closed doors, your testimony has impacted so many people. Yeah. And in the best way possible, people behind your back just are constantly like, Did I did not know this about Caitlin? I never would have guessed it because she walks around with so much joy and happiness and fulfillment that people honestly, if they were to take a stab at your history, they'd have been like, Yeah, she probably grew up in a great middle house, middle income household and has always gotten everything she wanted in life. Yeah. But you are a testament to the fact that bad things happen to all people. Yeah. But the difference is how do you respond? Absolutely. I think what we do in the meantime, we have you there's there's two people with two options, right? Option number one is you reject that, you reject the God that created you, and now your suffering has no purpose. I hate to say this, but in in our especially in an American context, but we'll just look at the global west. So even Europe um and South America, in in a Western context, we see a large growing secular population. People are rejecting God, um, and as a result, they're they're having to come to grips with the fact that there is an evil world. And that's why you see so many people in this lost state, they're honestly raging. As Psalm 2 says that they rage against their creator and they're mad, they're gnashing their teeth, and they're like, This world is so broken. But if you reject the God that created you, you no longer have a category for this brokenness, and all you can do is be upset and weep or get angry. And so, for those people, I'm just going to encourage you there is a God who created this universe, who's in control of everything, and who is love. First John 4 8 God is love and he cares for his people. And be reconciled to your creator, come back to him, find purpose in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, and follow. Him and your pain will find a purpose. But then the second category of people is those who have trusted in Christ. And I will tell you, First Peter has been so instructive in my life. It is a book written to believers undergoing fierce persecution, very hard. And I if I could summarize a five-book in a few words, it would be suffering well. That is what First Peter is about. Suffering well. And Caitlin, you hit on it with First Thessalonians 4. We s we don't suffer well because we're all we have this grit and we can really push through. No, we suffer well because we have a risen Savior who intercedes for us at the right hand of the Father. We are not orphans. We have not been left with this orphan spirit, but we are adopted children of God who have purpose on this earth to go and spread the good news and to usher in the kingdom of God. And so though we may suffer, Jesus tells us, in this world, you will have trouble. Don't get surprised when that kind of stuff happens. You will have trouble. But he says, Take heart, for I have overcome the world. And so we suffer with a purpose. And so in the meantime, what does this look like? That's why community is so important. Suffering alone is one of the worst things and is one of Satan's greatest tools. If he can get you to suffer in isolation, he can get you to do a multitude of different things. But I have seen this in my life, I have seen this in lives of believers all around me. When you are in community, when you have small groups, accountability groups, when you are with the local body in the church setting, suffering has a whole different light because you have brothers and sisters who will bear those burdens with you. And so if you're listening and you don't have a church home, if you're listening and you're not a part of a small group, if you're listening and you're not being mentored in some capacity, I'm going to push you. Things may be good now. And praise God. Seriously, give Him thanks every time that things are good.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

But I can take a shot in the dark here and say in every single one of our lives, there is going to be what has historically been called the dark night of the soul. Things are going to hit a rough patch. And what you do in that rough patch is going to be determined by who you're surrounded by. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

No, for real. And on just going off of that, I would encourage just you might have people that you are close with or like hang out with all the time, but really just lean into those relationships and open up with them. Um I had some buddies of mine from college that I was just super close with through throughout my college years, but even in just this one year removed from college, like I feel like I've grown closer to them. And a lot of it's just because I mean, we're out here in like the real world now per se. But like a lot of us, like we're we don't a lot of us like live far away from each other and don't get to see each other as often as we did. Like we all used to be in the same apartment complex and we would just literally like go down the stairs and we'd be in our buddy's room or something like that. And now we can't do that. We're all like four or five hours away from each other. And so it's like, okay, we're making the most of every little moment we got when we do get to spend time with each other. And it's like in those moments now, rather than just kind of talking about, oh, did you see the score of the game last night or something like that? We're like, bro, how are you doing? Like, actually, like tell me what's been the hardest thing, like post-grad and stuff like that. And we've been opening up to each other so much more. And so you might have community that's like you're kind of close with or hang out with the um a lot or something like that, but really lean into it and like be honest with like, hey, what this is going on, and like let people in and stuff like that. And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

And there's a difference between godly community and just other friends that you have. Right, exactly. And it's like whenever you're going through hardships, you want that godly community because they're going to continuously point you back to Christ and encourage you, whereas your other friends may be pointing you to the world, yeah, and that's where we can really go wrong. So you may have great friends, but let's make sure that they are passionately pursuing the Lord um in that. And so this is this is a heavy topic. We could probably talk about this for a very, very long time. Yeah. But we're gonna have to wrap up. And so um, I have some books that I've read that have been super helpful and informative for me and my journey. Um, The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis. Excellent book. It is very dense, so maybe not for everyone, but it is an excellent book. Um, and The Hard Good by Lisa Weddell. That was really, really good. It just talks about how you use the hard situations you walk through for the good of God. And so um, those are some of the books that I have. Nathan, did you have some?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah, I'll leave y'all with this. Um, there's a there's a good book by a very smart guy named NT Wright uh called Evil and the Justice of God. And this is just it's not necessarily going to give uh a practical step-by-step of what to do, but this is going to help you have a framework in mind for okay, what do I do when I experience evil in my life? What do I do when I see evil in the world? And how does God interact with it? Really, really good for me in um just putting having a category to put this in so that when this stuff pops up, I'm just not spiraling out of control. And I'll give two people that I think are just good uh in general, and they've spoken on this a lot, but they're very articulate and they do give a lot more practical application. Um, first is Gavin Ortland. He um runs a channel called Truth Unites, he has it on YouTube, podcast, Instagram. He's great. And then another is uh a philosopher, don't be scared by that. But his name's William Lane Craig, and he is a bit more technical, but he gives such good, good practical wisdom. Um, but those are some that I would recommend.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah, no, that's awesome. Well, yeah, guys, again, this was kind of a a deeper topic today, and so um for sure. If you guys have any questions at all, if you know us personally, like reach out to us or reach out to any other friends or go get these books or these sources, man. That's why we share them with you guys. That way you can just continue this conversation outside of the podcast, you know. Like we might be closing the podcast episode, but you guys can keep talking about this, keep it going, and that's why we give these resources. And so, but yeah, anyways, again, would encourage you guys to just follow and subscribe or whatever and share this episode if you enjoyed it. Um, and just keep checking out what we got here at the social or whatever young adult ministry you have in the area near you. And so thank you guys for listening. We hope you take care.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Peace. Bye.