Brain Based Learning with Dr. Mikel Frye

Brain based learning is a hot topic for life-long learners, especially those in the classroom.  Structuring learning around neuroscience can have huge impacts, especially for students who have experienced trauma.  Join me as I interview Dr. Mikel Frye and find out more about brain based learning and what her company, Neurospark, is all about!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Brain-based learning is a company for life among learners, especially those in the classroom. Functional learning around neuroscience can have huge impacts, particularly for students who have experienced trauma. Join me as I interview Dr. Michael Fry and find out more about brain-based learning and what her company, Neurosmart, is all about. I'm here today with Dr. Michael Fry, founder of Neurosmart Education, and you are an educator yourself as well.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Yes, I am. I have had about, um I have had, I um have about 17 years of classroom experience, and I've taught everything from second grade to fourth grade, but spent a majority of my time in sixth through twelfth grade and public public school, well, public and private school. So yeah, I've been doing it for a while and it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Got it. Um tell us a little more about yourself. So we know your titles. What makes you tick? What gets you up in the morning excited?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Um, well, I love I love to learn. That's really kind of the that's what sparked everything since I was about 15 years old. Um I remember I so I've been a history teacher for the majority of my time, and I'm double credentialed in history and English, and so I've taught both those subjects. But when I was about 15 years old, my dad and I went to go see the movie Elizabeth, which was about Queen Elizabeth I. And I remember after the movie, I just loved her. I've always been a history nerd, and I just loved her, and I really had I wanted to learn more, and I asked my dad to tell me more about Queen Elizabeth because he loves history too. And I just and he looked at me and he said, Well, go read a book. And I'm like, Okay. Right. And then just kind of so began this process of um just exploration and learning. Yeah, and it was in my comfort zone of history, and I just devoured everything I could about that uh medieval and early modern period. But to be honest, I wasn't really a very good um student in high school. I got a not that great of a GPA. Um, but then something transformed when I went to college. And I think, and I I I just my first year I just decided that I wanted to be in the honors program at Chico State. And I I did. And I and then I wanted to, and then I'm like, okay, well, you know what? Um uh my uh and also at that same time when I graduated high school, this neighbor that I didn't really know um gave me a paperweight and on it it said, what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? And I didn't think of any anything of it at that time, but when I was in my dorm, I had I was looking at it and I just I don't know, I just thought like, what would I attempt to do if I knew I could not fail? And it just the beauty of not being afraid of making a mistake, yeah, just opened it just opened something in my mind, and I just decided I want to go do this, okay. I'm gonna do it. I want to go do this, okay, I'm gonna go do it. And if I fail, I fail, and I get back up and I try again. And I think that just gave me this ownership over my learning and my my development that I didn't have in high school, and so it made me fall in love with the process of learning. I just love love to learn. So, like, and um I've tried to teach my own children uh like hard work is everything. And if you fall on your face, that's fine, that means you're learning, just keep going. Um, and so I think what gets me up to move is really what am I gonna explore today? You know, what's what am I gonna learn today? How can I become a better human, you know, by the end of the day? Um and that's really one of the reasons why I've kind of founded Neurospark was because this sense of ownership over your learning can be really transformative for a kid. Yeah, and I don't think teacher preparation programs and a lot of professional development programs really do a good job of teaching teachers how to instill that ownership over your learning. And um, brain-based learning practices are a way that kids can like teachers can teach kids like you can change your brain, you can do this, you can do that, and especially students with trauma, um, that level of autonomy can be very satisfying to them and help to regulate them and and build their confidence. So um really I'm just passionate about getting these techniques into the hands of teachers because it's transformative for the students and it's transformative for the teacher because now they have a better sense of accomplishment. I've impacted these kids on more than just an academic level, and it gives them a better sense of self-efficacy and like happiness in the in their profession, which you know, you don't go into teaching for the money, you go into teaching because you got you love kids, yeah, and you want to help and make the world a better place. And so I think you know, trying to just teach as many people as possible how to do this is just it's a very great passion of mine.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Yeah, I love it. It comes through so authentically, like you can tell that good that is just what you live and breathe. And that was when I attended your presentation on brain-based learning recently at a conference. It was infectious, like I was just scribbling the whole time so excited about what I was learning from you. Um, so tell us a little bit more about brain-based learning. Maybe you had some three things to remember that I thought were really captivating.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah. Uh oh gosh, I gotta remember what I put in that presentation. Um, well, so a couple a couple things to remember about brain-based learning. So, first off, it is um emotion drives learning. Um, that's one of the big tenets, is the foundation of it, um, which is why uh trauma-informed teaching really goes hand in hand with it. Um you basically you can think of like emotional, gauging the emotional climate as the foundation of implementing brain-based learning in the classroom. Like if a student is not regulated, they're not gonna learn. So the first thing to remember about brain-based learning is emotions come first. Um, the second thing I would say to remember is that the brain is built, it's not born. So what you have inside your head when you're born, um, it changes through several different big developmental periods. Um, and then uh another one is that memory capacity is limited, so don't overdo it. You want to make sure that you're chunking information, that you're going slowly, and that you're aware of the developmental pace of your student's brain. So, what an adult learner can do is not something a 13-year-old can do. Um, and what a 13-year-old can do is not something a seven-year-old can do. And we know this as teachers, but sometimes we get so wrapped up in in the in the moment in our curriculum. And a lot of the curriculum and what it says that you should do, I don't necessarily think tracks with the brain as well. And I think teachers should be given the flexibility of um creating that high level of uh rigor, but lowering the threat. So they have to lower the threat within the classroom in order to get that rigor out of their students, because otherwise the students are gonna feel threatened, the amygdala is gonna take over, and there's no no prefrontal cortex happening. There's no the the learning will not occur. So that needs to happen first. But I think those are kind of the the main things. So really the climate that the brain is built, not born, and um beware of cognitive overload.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Right. Well, and I appreciate that phrasing that you just used. I haven't heard it put exactly that way before of lowering the threat. Yeah, and that really is, especially our kiddos who come from trauma, and you know, we're up here in paradise, and we know that even pre-fire uh we had very high ACES scores or adverse child experience scores, and um even more, you know, post-fire, post-COVID. Yes, so there's a lot of trauma in the brains of these kiddos. And what strategies have you seen that teachers can use? You've spoken to some of them. What are some other things that teachers can use to address that trauma?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah, I think so. One of the things that um when I was uh researching trauma, and I think uh so Dr. Perry in 2006 um came up with the three Rs of regulate, relate, and then reflect and respond. And so, and and then it was uh built by uh CLESS in 2025, also wrote this uh wrote about it. And basically the first thing is you need to regulate the students. So one of the tangible concrete things is let's say that you notice um that a student is getting frustrated or that the class is getting frustrated, that something's going on, um, or maybe you're approaching a challenging topic. The first thing you need to do is make sure everybody is in a regulated state of mind and they're ready to learn. So you can use something like a grounding technique, uh deep breathing, just one to two minutes, or you could do something like um, you know, what uh the uh the present orientation, like what do you see, what do you hear, what do you feel? And I've done this with my students a few times, and they they're giggle and they're oh, I don't want to do this, you know, sort of a thing, and then they're opening their eyes, they're not closing their eyes and stuff. But I do think that just the practice of it itself, and just opening the class on that like peaceful, like comforting environment. Like we're not just diving straight into it, we're we're giggling, we're laughing, you know, we're smiling. Um, you're allowed to kind of goof off, you know, move a little bit. Um, just that is enough. And then um once they're regulated, um, then they can relate to each other. So you might once they're regulated, you might teach a few things, and then you could have a very no-stakes, um, very quiet, like not quiet, but no stakes like pair share. Like, what's one question you had about that? Turn to your partner and what's something that you're thinking about as you're as you're thinking about this. So um, like in my presentation, we built the student, and I I wanted to do something like that because I knew that at that time all educators were probably thinking about this kid or this class that that they have seen something like that before. And so it's important to give the student that sense of connection and like talk it out too. And language is absolutely vital in a brain-based classroom. You have to talk, you have to make meaning, you have to verbalize it. It's one of the methods of encoding. Um, just talking to each other about it. And then after you have done that, now your students are in a state where they can do some sort of higher order thinking. Um, they are in the state of what Kane and Kane call uh relaxed alertness. Um so, and that really needs to be the foundation of not only the classroom but the entire school. If you can build a school climate based on relaxed alertness, you have achieved so much. Um and so I would say those three things are really the the foundation of kind of what you can do using brain-based techniques in a trauma-informed lens, uh using a trauma-informed lens as well. And just always try to give this students a sense of autonomy because if they can choose, so like let's say that the student doesn't want to write a paper, that they get freaked out, but they talk it out really well. Give them an opportunity to talk it out with you, you know, have them record a voice memo or something, and they can send it to you. Um when I would have students give presentations, they I would never give them an out. They would try, never ever give them an out. Um, what I would do is I would say, you can have an emotional support buddy go up with you.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

And sometimes a student would have one, and other times they'd have a whole posse. Like it was like like you see those like rap artists come out and they got like 10 people behind them.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

And then like this kid would come up and he's all like, you know, doing his thing, and he's got like 10 people just sitting there behind him. Amazing. Like that's fine with I don't care. Like the emotional support buddy rule was you cannot you need to be completely invisible. You cannot distract the speaker and you cannot distract us. Right. The moment you do, I tell you to sit down. And so, and they took it very seriously, right? But it was just like having that presence for the student who was nervous, yeah. Just it was fine, you know. And so if teachers can give that sense of like, I control this, I got my buddy right here, yeah. You know, it helps to lower the threat, but not the rigor. And so something else that need a teacher needs to keep in mind is what is your end game? Like, what was my end game in having the students give a presentation? Right. I don't need them to go and deliver a you know a content session at a conference. That's that's probably like 0.00001% of the students are actually gonna do that. Maybe they'll do it sometime later in life, but this is middle school, so it's seventh grade. We don't need to go that for broke. My goal was very simple, it's just to get them confident speaking in front of a class. Yeah, that's fine for seventh grade. Maybe when you get into high school you need to get a little bit more rigorous, but you know, gauge the developmental level of your kid and what is what do they actually need at that moment? All my students needed was to gain confidence. Right. So, how do how could I give them confidence without replacing rigor? You know, and no one got an out. They're like, Oh, well, so you know, this teacher, this teacher, they let me deliver it at lunch. And I'm like, no, absolutely not. Like, I can't believe I like I can't believe this. And even if the kid was like nearly mute, hardly talked, I still wouldn't let them out. And they could, as long as they got up there and they talked just a little bit, just a little bit. Yeah, my goal was met. They delivered something in front of a class. Yay, we're good. Yeah, so I think anytime you can do that, another thing that studies have shown is really good for um uh lowering the threat, not rigor, is flexible seating within the class. Um a lot of students feel more confident and safe when they are able to choose where they sit, and even having a place such as like a dark den or a calm corner where they can go to when they're feeling overwhelmed without leaving the classroom. That's a really big thing. Like a lot of schools have um, you know, a calming corner that they can go to that's outside the classroom. Well then that removes them from learning, right? And that's what we don't want to do. We want them to be present, but we want them to be calm, you know, comfortable. And again, it all goes back to lower the threat, not the rigor, you know, not the bar. So they're still there, they're still accountable for everything. But if you need to modify it, if they need to move, they can do that. Um, and that's not you know, not every classroom you're gonna be able to do that. It depends on the space that you have, it depends on the resources that you have. Um, I personally I always wanted to do a flexible seating classroom. It was it was on my list of like, um one day I'm gonna do this, but man, those standing desks are expensive, you know, and like bean bags, and I was looking on Pinterest on how to make my own, like get crates and then sew in cushions and like I was like trying to think of all these ways, but then I'm like, well, what am I gonna do with my desks? Have maintenance take out 30 desks? Like, where are they gonna put them? There's no storage, you know. So there's there's logistical challenges to a flexible seating classroom, and that is 100% understood. But if there's any way you can do flexible seating, it really helps give the kids that level of autonomy, and then you know, give having them feel like they're taking ownership of their learning. Because if you can build their confidence, then you're gonna build their base for learning because that then they're gonna feel like I can do this, and even if it's just a small thing, like studies have found that even just giving them a choice of a pen color, just even something that small makes them like, yeah, I can do this, like I got this, like look at me and my pink pen. Like I had a rule, like no red because I correct in red, and no neon because I can't read it. Fair, fair, everything else, sure. Yeah, I don't care, have at it. And I even a lot of teachers were like, we need to use pencils because otherwise, you know, you need to be able to erase. That's great, you know. The the the premise of erasing your mistakes is a great metaphor for life, too. But I taught them how to do a good strike through. So I'm like, if you ever need to erase or never to just strike through, just like this. Okay, you know, do the modeling, like, and do not scribble, there's no scribbling allowed, you just strike through. Yeah, and so and then like okay, I can use whatever color I want now. And I let them draw on their papers too. Um, I taught them how drawing can actually be a really good way for people to listen. Um, but you don't want to draw anything that requires too much thought. So drawing like patterns or little designs, you can do that. I don't care. As long as I can read your paper, have at it. And any test that was um that they finished early, I would give them a draw of the day and they would turn it over and then they'd draw the draw of the day like what's your favorite food, what's your favorite book or movie, um, draw a scene from last weekend or something. Like, and so then they had that creative outlet as well. So, you know, just little strategies that you can give the kids that ownership is really the premise of merging brain-based learning and trauma-informed teaching.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Well, and I can see how having that autonomy and choice and flexibility would increase their relaxed awareness. Uh-huh. Or relaxed alertness, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

The same thing.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

It's a fantastic phrase because it, you know, we want students to be comfortable so that they're in the right brain space, but then you've got the kid and sometimes falling asleep in the corner because their their family has, you know, a whole lot of hardships, and maybe they haven't gotten any sleep. But like you, I appreciate you speaking to the rigor piece also, because we do have high expectations for every single one of our students, and we care enough to hold them to those expectations, like you were saying, and that sense of success for a student who thought they couldn't speak in front of the class, and now they went up with their emotional support buddy, yeah, and even if it was short, they did it. Yeah, a lot of them haven't experienced that before, and that is really well, you know, brain brain blowing for them, mindful.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, and I think what it is is that a lot of teachers are are afraid to put them in that space because they don't want to overload them. Right. But the thing is, is if you've established that you care deeply for their for their well-being and that you know them, and that you will accommodate them and you will help them and support them through everything as long as they try, then you've established that I've got you. Yes. And you can kind of ask them to do nearly anything, yeah, you know, and so and that was what I spent a lot of time. I was very diligent about that with my kids. Like, I let them know any to every day and however I could that everything was about them. Constantly asking for feedback. If I could ever give them a choice on what to do that day, I would always give them a choice. Like, do you guys want to do this or do you want to do that? Like, oh, we want to do this. Okay, cool, let's do that. Like, you know, I said my goal is this, this, and this, accomplish it. So whatever you want. And so just constantly feeding that Mrs. Fry's got you. Like, I'm sh I I am here for you, and God bless them. Like, but they would always want to eat lunch with me and stuff. And I I'm kind of an introvert, and so and I need to recharge by myself, especially if I'm, you know, when I was teaching, I I taught with all I had. And I, you know, I I would teach with accents, I would teach in costume, I would like it everything all the time. And um, so it it and so when lunchtime came around, like I said, look, in order for me to be completely present for you, I need space. Yes, I need time to myself. And they really understood that, you know, because I had shown throughout my time with them that yeah, I am 100% dedicated to you. Um, there was an initiative that, or uh, a program or pilot, I guess you could say, that came through the BCOE of having students survey your students for how they're how they're liking your class, how they're doing it. And I was the only teacher on campus that said, I want to do this. Because like, and I told the students the feedback. Right. And I'm like, this is what you think, how can I make this better? Or like, and just involving them because you know, especially in secondary school, they're they're such an interesting bunch. Oh, yeah. Like they are especially middle school is you know, they don't they don't know if they want you to hold their hand or let go of their hand. And and then in high school, it's like hold my hand, but then let go and walk with me that way. Like it's it's like a I want you to help me, but then you need to let me go, but stay by my side.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Like, you know, and then eventually get behind me. You know, so it's this weird you gotta balance it, but it's so it they understand it though, and they're they're just dying for that freedom. Like anytime you can give it to them. Again, even the pen. Let them write in any pen they want. That's that makes them feel like they're being seen and heard. And again, with kids with trauma, feeling seen and heard is huge because a lot of the kids, um, students that I have, um, they have parents they don't really even see that much because they work night jobs. Um, and sometimes the parents are gone because of nefarious reasons, and you know, they they don't have that support. And sometimes kids' dad's in prison, I learned one day. You know, it's just you never really know. And like you said about a kid falling asleep in class, I had that several times. And um, at first I was like, okay, what's what's going on? You know, like I'm you know, wake up, wake up, wake up, wake up. But then if it if it happens once and like, okay, dude, come on, get up, you know. Um, but if it happens several times, then there's a huge red flag for me. And I'm like, what are you okay? What's going on? Like that that is the first question I ask. Like, are you okay, honey? Did you eat any breakfast? Have you had water today? Which um another thing that uh shows, especially for um all everybody, but especially trauma kids, um you know, since the brain is made up of 75% water, um you need consistent water intake in order to improve cognitive functioning. The brain will not process well without water because 75% of it is made up of with of water. Um, so that's something. And then of course nutrition. Um, but so anything that a school can do as well to help with nutrition and water breaks. Um, I gave out bathroom passes, I restricted the bathroom movement in my class because it was always came back to learning, and you're missing out on learning time. Um and I had a good process for it, and the kids were very happy. They were scared at first, which was great, which was great. Yeah, but uh then they were happy with the process because they got extra credit at the end of the year or semester. Uh, but uh I would always give unrestricted water breaks. Like you can go ahead, water it up. Um, and then I would have like going to get a drink of water from the water fountain doesn't take very long, but filling up a water bottle, you could take a little bit longer than oh look, you see your friend, and then all of a sudden you're gone for 10 minutes, you know. So then I would have water horses. I'd have a big crate and I'd have one person be the water horse that day, and they go and just fill everything up. Oh wow. And then they bring them back, and everyone's good. And then they would trade off, and you know, 30 kids, one person water horse, and sometimes the water horse didn't need to go that day, so it wasn't a big deal, but it was like a rotation, so you know I didn't have people consistently missing out on learning, but they got their water, right? Sometimes it was three water bottles, sometimes it was ten, and but it worked out well. So uh the teacher can do little tweaks like that, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:52

So creative, yeah. I just and trial and error, yeah, right because they're always changing, and that that was another thing that fascinated me. You were talking about how the adolescent brain rewires itself.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Oh, yes, yes, synaptic pruning. Yes, huge.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

I had never heard I I love neuroscience, I had never heard that term before. Tell me more about that. Oh gosh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

So, this is a huge job of um uh secondary school teachers. So, backing up, the brain goes through three major developmental periods from zero to five, is basically a synaptic, just boom. It looks like a spider web in your brain, just synapses everywhere, like it's cloudy, you can't even see through it. And that's because your brain is building connections. So we have about 86 billion neurons that we're born with, and that doesn't really change throughout our lifetime. But what does change is the amount of connections and learning, most of learning is a bilateral movement, so you move from different hemisphere to hemisphere. So, like um hippocampal, uh the hippocampus, which is right about kind of right about the amygdala in the back of the head, um, sort of kind of I don't know, it's it's there. Um, but that cross, you know, crosses with the prefrontal cortex, which is the reasoning system, the hippocampus is really the memory system. So all your brain is constantly moving back and forth. Um, speech and uh vision are on different sides, it goes everywhere. So your synapses, which are connect the neurons and fire to each other, um Larry and Jerry from the and then Johnny and Susan from the presentation, uh, the neurons, uh they they have to fire to one another. Um, and so from zero to five is basically the connection boom. Early educators are making as many connections as possible and like reinforcing them. Um the second big development is around the age of puberty, it's from about 11 to 15 or 16. And during that time is what you referred to as talked about synaptic pruning. And so what happens during that time is the brain basically wants to turn these side roads into highways. So instead of taking now this, you know, the back roads of um, you know, the back roads of uh paradise, you know, you think Maxville and you go here and you go there, you know, to get up to the top of paradise. Um instead you're gonna take Skyway. You're just gonna go up. So the brain basically says, I don't want to do all these back roads anymore. I want one clear connection. And so the job of educators is to rewire the brain so that they use the fastest connection possible. Um and you do that by reinforcing the pathways that you want. So um, you know, for example, all these all these practices that early educators instilled into the kid, like you know, from like zero to ten of um, you know, just uh the that were developmentally appropriate are not necessarily developmentally appropriate now for uh middle school or we want other things. I mean we want to we want to reinforce singular things. And so uh synaptic pruning is basically reinforcing the connection by doing it over and over and over again and increasing without going into too much, it's hard to talk about it without visuals, you know. So by increasing the that connection, we make it faster, and the goal is always automaticity. Um we don't we want to be able to do things without thinking about it, so it frees up cognitive space to do something else. So, like for example, I'm you know, you know, for writing notes. Like, for example, you just automatically write notes, you know. I I think about this, I like I have written my own little jargon on notes, I've created my own little language, right? I've done it so many times I don't even think about it anymore, and so I can take notes relatively fast while still listening to someone, you know, and that's a skill that has been repeated over and over again, so my neural pathway for that's pretty strong. But that's something that an educator would need to teach over and over and over again, and rewiring the brain like that um is called uh neuroplasticity, that's a form of um basically neurobrain plastic, meaning kind of moldable, so you can mold the brain however you want based off of what pathways you're going to reinforce. So the adolescent brain, uh we know that the amygdala, so backing up again, we know that the amygdala develops first in the brain. And then the prefrontal cortex, which is the reasoning system, which sits right above your eyebrows, is um develops, doesn't fully mature until the age of 25. So the amygdala, the reactive system, is far, far, far stronger for kids than it is for an adult who has basically like their prefrontal cortex, their reasoning system is built and it's as an established connection. So what educators need to be mindful of is that we are reinforcing pathways that are not reactive, that are not that lower the threat. So they're we're not reinforcing um a pathway that is counterproductive to learning. Right. So if we if an educator comes in and the threat level is high or they feel judged, or they feel like, oh no, they're going to reinforce the pathway of fight or you know, fight or flight, basically. But if we can establish the connection of, oh no, this means this and this is safe, then that's what we want to do. So the job of secondary educators is extremely important because they are creating the pathways that the student will have for the rest of their life. Because synaptic pruning, to the extent that it happens during puberty, it never happens again. That's it. That's the only time in their life where the brain will shed that many connections. Never again. And so it is really imperative. I feel like I feel like if I would have known this, starting my career with middle school, right? I would have been like, we gotta get those connections. I I know now what my goal is. Like I am, I am creating the foundation for the rest of your life, right? You know, no pressure. No pressure. But you know, it's it's it will never happen again. There's three huge stages. Now, we can as adults, we can rewire our brains too. We're our brains are pretty moldable throughout our whoops throughout our lives. But nowhere else in your lifetime will you ever shed, ever rewire your brain than to the extent of during puberty, which is I mean, we know that anyone who's seen a teenager, and you know, like I have a teenager at home and a preteen at home as well, and they're all over the place, you know. But but I didn't told them the idea. I'm like, your brain is shedding the ones you don't use. You guys need to go reinforce that kick out there for soccer, you know, like keep going to reinforce it. And they're like, mom, stop talking about this stuff. Well, it's so important. You guys gotta know this stuff, like this is empowering. They're like, Yeah, but you're annoying. Like, that's my job and your mom. Are you supposed to be annoying? So it's uh yeah, um, but yeah, that's the the idea of synaptic pruning is it's pretty it's pretty transformative for educators and for students to know that. I I've I've told my students about it and their eyes go wide, they're like, my brain is like it's disintegrating or something, and they're like, What? They're like no. Well, what did you eat today? Yes, red 40, uh-huh. Yeah. But they they're like, oh, okay. So I'm like, hey, we're gonna reinforcing this, and that's something else educators can do is really, really tell the kids what's going on. Yeah, like they love that, they really do love that. Like, because like, for example, another example of lowering the threat, not the bar, is when I gave tests, I would, I think I said this in my presentation, I'm not sure, but I wanted to create as low of a stress environment as possible, and so I told the kids, I gave them the rundown of what's going to happen in their brain when they feel like there's a threat or when they're worried about something. I'm like, so here's what I'm gonna do, guys. I'm gonna turn off the lights, we're gonna let in as much natural light as possible. I'm gonna play some calming music, I'm gonna turn on my fountain. I got my diffuser in the background, and you can sit wherever you like in the room. You have a clipboard and/or their Chromebook if it was on the Chromebook, and you're gonna take your test. And that gave the kids a sense of autonomy, it lowered the threat, the lights were off, lights can be so it can totally induce anxiety. The the more natural fibers and natural light, natural aesthetic you can bring into a classroom, research has shown that really helps the brain, the brain loves it. Um, too much clutter uh covering more than 70% of your room, especially with non-academic um I mean inspiring quotes. I had inspiring quotes all over. Like and I had baby yodas. I was obsessed with baby yoda. I had a shrine to baby yoda, and the kids also found that hilarious. But like, something you don't want anything that's distracting. And so when I told my kids this is what we're doing, they like they kind of were like, okay, all right, you know, I can I like this. Nice, you know. And I would have kids sit at my desk, and I'd have a student on my left leg, I'd have a student near my right leg. They all like still sat next to me. Like, I can't move my feet, like you guys are all right here. And uh, and then you know, someone on the bean bank, someone in the corner, and they got lots of kids under desks, and but I saw scores go up. Yeah, and I saw like they were they were happy, they didn't fear a test really as much, like they didn't like them, but they are like, okay, Mrs. Fred really wants to make me comfortable, and now I know what's going on in my brain, so I'm gonna take a deep breath. I'm gonna remember I know this, I'm gonna remember she always allows retakes, and I'm gonna do my best, and they did so well. And I think um being very aware of your environment is super important um and how you prep the kids and uh empowering them by saying, like, here's how your brain works, here's what's gonna happen, here's what I'm gonna do to support you, and this is what's gonna happen while in your brain while I do this. And then okay, cool, all right, let's give it a shot. Right. Sometimes they would come back like my son and be like, Oh my gosh, I'm just sorry, I stopped talking about this and stuff. You know, if just like two things sink in, it's worth it.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

If just a little bit sinks in, then we're fine.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Absolutely, yeah. Well, you talked a lot too about um how repetition and building those synaptic highways is benefiting the kids. And uh it makes me think about students. I said this before, but students where it's their first time experiencing success. Uh-huh. And when you highlight that to them and say, look at you, you just did something you didn't want to do and you thought you could not do, and you did it. Yeah. If we can repeat that and make that something that you, you know, know is a part of you, yeah, how powerful that that's life-changing, yeah, you know, in these kiddos. Uh-huh. Um, and and then it builds that confidence and also that knowledge of themselves as a human, which is so important. Another topic that you mentioned was memory and how our memory works. And I know I struggle with my memory sometimes. And so the way that you laid it out was not only validating, like, oh, that's what's going on in Kelly's brain. Yeah. Um, tell us a little more about our memory and how that works.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Yeah. So um basically uh there's a lot of different, a lot of different theories of how and models of how the brain works, but I really gravitate and I um, especially with brain-based learning um instructional models, I uh like the information processing model. I think it's by uh Atkinson and Hodges. I forget, but I can I can get all these things and send them your way as well. Um but it it's basically um that there's so there's three different types of memory in this. There's um sensory memory, and then there is uh working memory, and then there's long-term memory. Now some people call working memory short-term memory. It's a little more comp like there's a little bit more to it than that, but we can just leave that for right now. But basically, cognitive memory has an unlimited amount of capacity. You could take in a tons of things right now. Like, you know, for example, you know, I mean, you anyone when you're talking to someone could be thinking about what they're gonna have for lunch that day. Maybe they're thinking that their stomach's growling, maybe they're listening to the air conditioner, maybe they're looking at the light, maybe they're thinking about their pen, maybe they're thinking about, you know, they guess they're feeling about the oh my foot's bouncing, or oh my foot hurts, oh this chair's uncomfortable, you know, yeah, anything can be coming in. Sight, sound, smell. Um, and we can take in a bunch of stuff, but unless we're paying attention to it, it all fades away within three seconds. So the goal is to pay attention to one thing. So for example, like we're talking right now, you're paying attention to the sound of my voice. So now that is going into your working memory. And your working memory is you can kind of think of it like uh a post-it note and like a little sketch pad. So as I'm talking, you're like writing little notes on your sketchpad, yeah, you know, and and you know, sometimes the post-it note will be put to the side and never seen again, and then sometimes the post-it note will be used for something later. And so the goal is that the brain can take about four to seven things at one time. A seven is more like the adult can take that. Um, the kids is like four to five, really. Um so they can take on about four to five post-its at one time, and then you gotta do something with those post-its, otherwise they're just going to sit and you're gonna forget about the post-its that were there. So, and the way that you do something with it to commit it to long-term memory is to do retrieval practices, um, rehearsal practices. Uh so for example, if I wanted you to remember what we're talking about right now, I would pause and I would say, write down three things you remember right now. Just pause, just write it down. And then I would keep talking, and then I'd ask you in a few few minutes, okay. So now can you explain uh what I just said and look back at your nose? Do you see any connections? So I left space in between because spaced out retrieval, um, like in the presentation, the neurons of uh Johnny and Susan, okay. So Johnny and Susan, so uh they're trying to establish a connection, these two neurons. But Johnny and Susan, even though they deeply love each other, they need to break up for a little while.

unknown 39:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

And then they can get back together. So by leaving space in between practice, you're letting Johnny and Susan break up, but then they'll always come back if you let them come back together. So if mom and dad say Johnny and Susan can go on a date again, then they'll do it. And then their love will be rekindled and all is well. Um, but it's so, or like for example, with um sports, um, if for for like a PE teacher or a music teacher, um, any any teacher, but I'll use uh PE, uh, because I got soccer on the brain with the World Cup. Um so let's say you uh you teach them how to kick. Well, if you teach them how to kick, but then you don't let them kick after that, they're not gonna remember a gosh darn thing. Yeah. So you need to do something with that information. So once you've encoded it, meaning, and there's um and dual encoding is always what you want to strive for because um this goes with the UDL principles, uh, for you know, to try and encompass all learners. So when I say encoding, I mean basically how you're presenting the information. So talking, great. So in a slideshow, great. Having them write, great. But be careful not to have them do everything all at one time. So because that utilizes that's different processes within the brain. So for example, when I would deliver presentations to my student, because it was explicit instruction is still very important. A lot of people think that the students need to generate everything on their own, and you to yes, that's good, but they still need to get the information somehow. And so um sometimes it just can't be avoided. So I would deliver everything to the students, and we they just watch me and I'd ask questions the whole time, and then I'd pause at the end of the slide, say, Okay, now go ahead and take notes. I wouldn't ask them to do it at the same time, right? Because I knew that if they were taking notes, they weren't listening to me, their brain just couldn't handle it. Um now, adults, we can do that, but kids, not as much. So you've got to give them space to do one thing at a time and beware of cognitive overload. Um so uh that um my gosh, I completely left a turn thought. I was what was that memory. There we go. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I love the ironic. It was about memory.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

I just incurred comment and overload. I was like, my brain was jumping from file cabinet to file cabinet and it didn't keep track of fantastic. All right, so back to my file cabinet on long-term memory. Okay, let me pull out the file. So this because that that's how I think about the brain is a filing cabinet.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Um, because like your brain will go to certain areas and retrieve information. So it really kind of is like a file cabinet, and that's why um a lot of students sometimes called me like a different uh teacher's name that started with an M because their brain went towards the M category. And it's like they it's like they literally like pulled the file and they're like, Oh, that's Mrs. You know, so and so. No, that's not who I am, sorry, you know, or they just went to the teacher file and female teacher file, pulled it out. That's who you are. Um sometimes like I always get flattered when I'm in the same file as like their mom or their grandma or something, and they call me their grandma's name, or so I always I never really once I started thinking it that that way, I'm like, I don't care. Call me what you want. I'm this, but I know why you're doing it. You're reaching into that file cabinet because you I remind you of that. That's great. So, but back to long term memory. So after you've rehearsed, let's just do stick with kicking the soccer ball. So after you've rehearsed kicking the soccer ball, um, now it is encoded into um Into long-term memory, hopefully. Hopefully. It's your brain has now taken the post-it and it's put it into a file. And so now though, just like you know, those files that you have in the file cabinet that you never really look at, you have to go and retrieve that file and bring it back to working memory in order to really get it to stick. So unless you go back to your file cabinet, pull that post-it out, and then do something with it again, you're gonna completely forget that post-it ever existed.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

And that's like with language, you know. I took three years of Spanish in high school, but I I remember only the ones that I've used. Right. Like I I don't remember how to conjugate all the verbs that I I used to, and because I never used it. You know, I never went and retrieved that post-it from my file cabinet. And so the idea of like, you know, to sum up, the idea of memory is basically you you're getting all these things at one time. And you need to pay attention to just one or two of them. Chunk it appropriately, four to seven things at a time. Don't overload it, four to seven sticky notes. And then you need to transfer those sticky notes. The goal is to put them into your file cabinet. But unless you go back to that file cabinet and retrieve it and use it, you're gonna lose it. And so that's the goal of teachers is to keep going back to the file cabinet to grab it over and over and over again. And sometimes this means picking and choosing what you're teaching. Because when I started really implementing brain-based learning practices into my classroom, I had to slow down quite a bit. Um, I had to cut out like two units. Now, luckily for history, I was able to do this because they didn't have a test attached to it. Now, for math and English, this can get a little trickier. Um but I started spending a week on vocabulary, a week on geography, and then I slowed down in my curriculum and just and then cut stuff out as needed. Um, because again, always think about what is your goal, what is the end game? Like, what are you truly trying to accomplish? I didn't necessarily care if they knew all the names and dates. I wanted them to get the big picture ideas, and because my goal with history was always to teach them how to understand the world around them and become better citizens, become better people. And so, like, if that is my goal, what do I really need to teach them? And so um, you know, slowing down and making sure things stick by going back and forth and back and forth and continually repeating things, it can slow your curriculum down, um, but it makes it it'll force you to really think about your goals as an educator. What are you really trying to teach these kids? And you know, and and sometimes unfortunately, it is tied to a test. It's just the reality of our system, right? You know, there's no way around it. Um, and sometimes it's uh you know, sometimes you're able to have a little bit more flexibility, it just depends on what what your role is. But yeah, and um something else to remember with um with memory is that it is greatly influenced by your environment. So there have been multiple studies um that show and sleep, and sleep, um, there have been multiple studies that show that students who are in low socioeconomic environments have a smaller hippocampal volume, meaning that their memory capacity is smaller than someone who is not in that type of environment.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

So, and it's just because of the way that their brains developed based on who they were around, what resources were available, and so they're gonna come to you with a smaller capacity for memory. And again, with the idea of neuroplasticity, you can help them and you can buffer against any future damage. But if the damage is already there, it's it's there. And you have to just kind of work to build and scaffold your curriculum to support that learner. Um and so that's that's something else that's really important to know is that the brain brain development is is most definitely infected by the environment.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah, fascinating. You were you were speaking about with our memory, things that help make it stick. And the laughs that's my favorite. Um in your presentation, you talked about seven principles of making it stick. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

What are those? Yes, okay. So let's see, I threw it down. Um, okay, so this is from a book called and so there's there's different learning principles. So depending on who you look at, um, there's gonna be I've I've seen anywhere from six to twelve different different principles. Got it. I like Brown, I think the most accessible, best book for any educator, any person to pick up, any adult learner can benefit from this book. It's uh it's called Make It Stick by Brown and colleagues. Brown et al. I think it's 2014. I'll give you the resource, excuse me. It's fantastic. Um, but it goes through seven principles. It's let's see if I can literally look at it. Um it's uh retrieval, spaced out retrieval, rehearsal, elaboration, reflection, uh, wait, retrieval practice. I'm gonna start over again. Okay, retrieval practice, spaced practice, interleaving, elaboration, generation, reflection, and calibration. Okay, I don't remember those. But it all centers around having students generate information, elaborate on it, and mix up practice. So I know you've spoken about the importance of CTE and having um having students kind of do real-world applications, and that goes beautifully with the learning sciences because not only do you have to access students' prior knowledge, so and it you make and that in order for them to make meaning with something, so you also need to make it applicable to them, right? And so if if you make it applicable, then you can pull those files out of that file cabinet, and they will they will willingly do it because they want to. Um and then you know, and then there's also this saying of uh, well, actually, it's funny, my daughter and I were talking, my little seven-year-old daughter, I don't know where this question came from, um, but she says, Mom, is it true that practice makes perfect? And I said, No, actually, that's not true. And she goes, Wait, what? And I said, No, practice makes permanent. And she goes, What do you know? And then we talked about it, and I said, You practice how you play. What do you want to do? And if and I said, I like I love to box. And I'm like, but I can feel that if I'm not watching myself, I'm not gonna throw the punches correctly. And I'm and I'm like, I'm doing it over and over again, and I'm worried that I'm strengthening the pathway I don't want. So I need to practice how I want to play. Um, you know, you can kick a soccer ball and you can practice, but that practice doesn't make perfect unless you're doing it right. Makes total sense. I never thought about that. It's like you have to be doing it right. Right. And so um that's where the idea of calibration comes in as well. It's the teacher's job to make sure the students are practicing how they should play, how they are doing, are they doing it correctly?

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

And so things like exit tickets, um, short calibrations just to make sure the students are on the target that you want them to be on. And then anytime you can get them to reflect on something and generate ideas, it establishes, it makes more meaning to them, and they they commit it more to memory because how the brain works is when it takes in information, it establish it attaches it to previously held schemas. It's uh S-C-H-E-M-A, which is basically prior prior buckets of information. So, like if I say something that you connect with that you've experienced before, you're gonna remember it because you're like, oh yeah, that reminds me of that. Oh yeah, okay. Your brain really does. It's almost like it just says, Okay, I've I have this established schema. Oh, that reminds me, I'm putting it in that bucket. So if you can make that connection with a student, that is very impactful for learning. And um, one of the ways you can do this is to build prior knowledge. So once I learned this after reading Make It Stick, I took my vocabulary from the middle of the unit and shifted it to the beginning of the unit because I'm like, I want them to know, I want to talk about the bigger picture once I get to the middle of the unit, but they're not gonna be able to talk about it if all I'm doing is teaching them the vocabulary at that time. Like I'm gonna spend all my time, and so I shifted my vocabulary to the beginning of the unit and geography to the beginning of the unit because where I teach, the students a lot of them haven't traveled more than 30 minutes. Yeah, like how am I gonna teach them about ancient Rome and Italy if they don't even like I think I said this in the presentation, if they think Europe is a city, right? I can't do that. Yeah, so I have to establish their prior knowledge, build these schemas from scratch, you know. And so I did that at the beginning of the unit, and it really, really helped them. So, like, for example, by the time we got to like the Roman Coliseum, and I wanted to talk about like the gladiatorial games and why they were doing the gladiatorial games. It wasn't just for bloodshed and stuff, it was a bigger purpose within the Roman Empire. We had learned about gladiators, we had learned about emperors, we had learned about the Roman government, we had learned about all that, so that by the time we got to actually talking about the gladiatorial games, like I said, why were they doing these? They didn't I didn't have to spend time explaining these terms, they knew them. They're like putting the pieces together, and now we can have a deeper conversation. Right. So anytime you can make learning applicable, meaningful, and then the teacher has to calibrate, making sure the kids are on the right spot, and then continually going back and forth and back and forth so that we don't forget about those post-its. That's that's true, true deep learning. Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

So I can I can imagine a listener who's hearing all of these good things, and it probably feels like drinking from a fire hose. Yeah. And yes, I want to do everything that I'm hearing. I um uh what would you what advice would you give to an educator who is just thinking, I want to dip my toe in, I want to shift. Um, what are some low-hanging fruit that maybe they could implement?

SPEAKER_00 54:56

100%. I think I'll same thing I said in the presentation with you, is one thing. Just do one, one thing, one thing. Um the first thing I did was I shifted my vocabulary and geography to the beginning of the unit. Uh that was easy. I I had been teaching it. I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna take it from here and I'm going to do it here. And I waited till my next unit to start it. So it wasn't, I had time to, you know, get ready for it and change around my resources and stuff. And so that was the first thing I did. And then once I saw that was working, I was like, oh, this is great. Okay, next thing I'm gonna do is no to low stakes assessments, so my calibration, because again, lower the threat, not the bar, and calibrate, making sure everybody is on the same page. Um, and so then I did a pretest instead of a pre-test and then a test. And that was the second thing I did, and I did that for a few months. And um, in the midst of this, I also changed the lighting in my class. I got light covers, I got a diffuser, I got a fountain, and I did all those things. So, like, just do one thing at a time, one thing at a time, and I would say um really just find what works for you because teaching is so contextual, it's it's different for everybody, and that's why I think some people get a little nervous when it comes to research. They're like, but it's not gonna work in my classroom, you know? They don't know what they're talking about. It's a bunch of researchers who've never taught them. Yeah, right. And some of these researchers have not taught, you know, and some of these studies they are done in like random places with really small sample sizes, and you're like, there's no way I'm gonna I'm gonna recreate that. But what you can do with theory and research is to just be like, okay, what would work for me? Yeah, like in my context, and only take on what you can handle because a happy teacher is a good teacher. You know, don't don't go full throttle immediately because then you're gonna overload yourself and then no one's learning, right? You know, like no one, no one's happy, like so. Just what would work for you? Um, you know, and with with Neurospark, um, on on my website, uh, there are some resources that can be used to kind of guide you through it. Um, but just pick one.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

And then I have an open book and I would love to help you out. I love that. I love that. Because it's it's yeah, a happy teacher's a good teacher, and stay happy.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Yes, yeah, we have to take care of ourselves. Absolutely. Give us your website again so that listeners know where to go.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yeah, so that'd be great. So it's Neurospark Education, um, N-E-U-R-O S-P-A-R-K, uh, education, all one word, uh dot com. Um, and then I think you can also search Dr. Michael Fry and it'll take you there. And it's um Dr. and I have a very strange name. Um, M-I-K-E-L. And then it's F-R-Y-E. And um, yeah, should be searchable. And then I love, like we talked about in the beginning, just super passionate about helping teachers, and even if there wasn't a con the consulting is really a conduit to just getting to teachers. Yeah. So I just talk to educators all day long. So if you have any questions, need any guidance, I am 100% there.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

And they could get your contact information through your website. Yep, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yep, if yeah, I all uh so my email, excuse me, is mfry at neurosparked education.com, but it's also on there as well.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

So perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming and chatting with me today. So much fun. Super interesting and really important things for educators to learn from you. So thank you again. Great.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun.