#181 Rodrigo Pereira: Evolution of Standard Jiu Jitsu, CLA, Creating Content, and More

In this episode we get to talk to Rod (@intheblack.jj) from Standard Jiu Jitsu. Rod has been training under Greg Souders for many years and we talk about the evolution of Standard Jiu Jitsu, the CLA wave in jiu jitsu, making content for the Youtube Channel, Standard Jiu Jitsu, and their Skool Community. Hope you enjoy! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Hello? Hey, what's up, Rod? It's Josh from 1-800 BJJ Help. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Yeah, thanks for having me. I think you're the first guest who has like a professional microphone. So we definitely appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Yeah, it's actually like the only microphone I was looking around, I was like, oh no, I don't have anything other than a computer mic, and so I figured this out.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

No, it sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

This is what we used to record all of our uh all of our school content, all of the videos. Every time Greg's mic'ed up, uh coaching people at competitions, this is the mic. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Awesome. Um yeah, maybe if we can start off, because you've you've played a lot like the behind the scenes, you do videography, you've been with Greg a long time. But for people who haven't heard of you, can you give like a quick intro who you are and what you do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

So uh I'm Rodrigo Pereira. Uh people call me Rod. I'm a purple belt under Greg Sauders. Uh I've been with him since January 2nd, 2019. Uh I started making videos for him right over COVID, sort of a fully accidental thing. Um so I've been the behind-the-scenes guy at Standard for a long time. Uh, and now I not only do videography stuff, but um, I do match analysis and other things on our school uh platform. Awesome. And how did you get into jujitsu? Uh it was actually a full like blow-up my life situation. So um I used to well, I do again now, but um my original background was I played music uh and I was in bands and I had moved to Austin to uh play in a band with a friend, and I just got so burnt out on it while I was down there. Um I think I just wasn't happy with like my lifestyle or where I was, and um I remember I the last show I played, like I played the gig, I got off stage, I asked my girlfriend at the time for the keys of the car, and she was like, Do you need me to come with you? I was like, No, I'm not leaving, just stay right here. And I went and I sat in the car and just thought. And I was like, I need to blow up my whole life. So I broke up with that girlfriend, I quit all my bands, uh, I quit my job. I told my family I was gonna move back to Maryland. Um, and in that time between not working and and moving back, I needed something to do. And uh, quick shout out to my friend Zek. He's in the band Angel Dust now. Um, if any of you listen to any type of hardcore, I remembered him telling me one time when we were at the train, he was like, uh, yo, man, you should check out this jujitsu thing. I think you would like it. And I was like, oh yeah, cool. And I I just remembered that in my head suddenly, and uh I just Googled jujitsu and there was a Gracie Baja right by my apartment. Um, I went and trained there for just a little bit before moving back home. And then uh when I moved back home, I went to a bunch of different gyms to check it out. But when I walked into Standard, it was like felt like the right place to be like right away. Uh, and that was like right over Christmas break 2018, and then they were in their winter break, so it was all open mats. They still do that to this day. And then January 2nd was my first class at Standard Jiu Jitsu.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Dang, 2019. Uh what was it about Standard compared to other gyms? Like first just impression that that made you think it was the right place.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Uh, I think it was just my uh my sort of like anti-authority type of mentality that I've always had, where like everywhere I went, it felt like they were trying to convince me like, here's why you should be with us, and here's why we're the best, and here's like the uniform you have to wear, and here's the contract you have to sign to be with us, and blah, blah, blah. And when I walked into standard, I was like, Greg does not care if I'm here at all. It was like, we're training, get on the mat or don't. When I asked him, like, is it okay that I don't have a gi, he was like, or like your your school's ghee. He was like, Oh, our school doesn't have a gi. He was like, You can wear shorts if you want, it doesn't really matter. And if you want to buy a ghee, the cheapest ones are on Amazon. This is the the Santable ones are the cheapest if you need it. Uh, but if you don't if you don't want to buy a gi, you just come in shorts. And that was crazy to me because I, you know, coming from GB, you know, they're a little more traditional. I I got in trouble once because I wore normal shorts and not the branded shorts. So, like, right away, I was like, oh, this is the place for me. There was no bowing onto the mats or anything like that. Uh and no one tried to convince me to be there. It was just like, we're here to train, and if you want to train with us, you you are welcome to train with us. Uh nobody ever talked to me about money or anything. Uh so yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah, I remember going there uh to visit, and it was just very matter-of-fact. And then I think like towards the end of the week, we gave Greg some money or something like that. He was like, What is this for? Like he was just and he said, I think he told us that he he would have students that hadn't paid for like months that he wouldn't even realize. Oh, it's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, that's actually one of the funniest things I if we're gonna get into like the what I've observed over all these years, is like there was a time when everyone was like, Greg is just trying to repackage jujitsu and sell it and make money. And I was like, Greg is making negative money from here. He doesn't even charge people to come into this in. Like, and now that we're actually like have programs and stuff and we're actually starting to make a little money, uh, now no one is saying anything about it, which is uh interesting to me.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, it was funny because I remember my impression was like Greg's such a great instructor and a coach and everything, the craft, but he just was a terrible business guy. Oh, awful. But yeah, let's get into some of the history and observations. Um, I'm just curious about your perspective. You know, we don't need you to like speak for Greg or anything like that, but just watching him go through his journey and being along for the ride. Like, can you start from the beginning? You said before we started recording that, you started with him when he was still drilling.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah. Um, so when I walked in, I didn't know anything about jujitsu or training methodologies or anything like that. Um and uh this is actually kind of a side note, this is actually hilarious. Uh I found a sna uh Instagram story from right when I was about to move away from Texas, and it was I was in the last semester ever of I was gonna drop out of college for the last time. Uh this is sort of my third time dropping out. Um, and I was in a math class and I I posted a story that said, I thought somebody figured out a long time ago that mindless repetition was not the best way to uh learn to problem solve. And I I I swear I have a screenshot. It was from two months before I ever met Greg. Um and so when he started to kind of tinker with uh doing things live, like the constrained sled approach, like he may be a smart business decision. He didn't want all of his students to just leave, right? So he didn't change all of his classes right away. He would kind of tinker with his best guys and uh see what results he was getting from trying before taking it to the full class. Uh and it took him a long time to really do that. And it's funny, everything everyone goes through, like everyone goes, I think Key Bon has talked about it, everyone goes through the same thing, and it's like you could have just listened to the people that did the work before you and started from where they are, but everyone starts from square one where they're like, Greg went through all the same things where he he was like, what if we just drilled it like three times, just like a quick movement solution, just for example, and then we got to the live, you know? Like Greg went through all those same things. Um I watched him develop that specifically with like Alex, and then before DeAndre ever got there, um, who we had a small little team, um Romero, Trevor, you Greg's probably talked about them a bit in different podcasts. Like we had a small little little team that would get together and kind of tinker with uh playing games. But when we went fully, fully live was right around when DeAndre showed up. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

This is this is very I appreciate you sharing this because like the classic piece of business advice is like once people have made it, they tend to give like different advice than when they were first starting out. So like you might listen to someone now who has a very successful business and they say, like, oh, it's really important to have like a good, you know, life balance. Um, and like make sure you do these types of things. But then like when they were starting out, there was no balance in their life and it was just like all business, you know? So like the the advice they're giving from the position where they're in is very different than when they started out. And yeah, like I didn't know this is basically what I'm saying. That Greg uh went through this like incremental process of implementing it. And yeah, it just made me think of that like business uh advice or like that type of thing. But yeah, I I appreciate you sharing the the origin story of it. I think it'll resonate with a lot of people that are going through the the process of trying to like implement it into their school, you know?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah, and at first I think there was uh a little bit of uh I don't know if like hesitation or or anything is like the right word, but like he had to be cautious with how he did it because he didn't he didn't want to fuck up, you know what I mean? That's like that everyone has that little fear of like, oh, if I try something, I might fuck up. Um but yeah, uh I think once once it really clicked for him, once DeAndre pulled up, once he started to get his his good guys were get starting to actually get really good and he got that confidence, he was able to shift over to just like, all right, the whole gym, the whole school is gonna do this. And at first he would tell everyone, like, if you have questions about why I'm doing this the way I'm doing it, come ask me. And that's kind of where I went in, where I like I was a very curious person. I wanted to know everything there was about everything we were doing. Uh, so he started to kind of impart the information onto me. Um so I've been, yeah, just watching that grow for years now. Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah, it um not to go too like business, uh not to like drive home too many business examples. But uh the it also makes me think about um this story that I've heard from Apple where Steve Jobs was very quick to like shut down ideas. So, like one engineer said that he had to like almost like when he had an idea, he wouldn't approach Steve Jobs with it until it was like nurtured and was kind of like a bit more battle tested before he brought it to Steve to get approval. Otherwise, Steve would be like, well, what about this? What about this? What about this? And he wouldn't have any good answers, and then he would be like, We're not gonna do this. So it's the idea of like picking a small group of people where it's like, hey, I don't really know what I'm doing, but like let's battle test this and figure it out before we roll it out to everyone. Because when we roll it out to everyone, if it doesn't work, it can be a very bad financial like business decision. So um, yeah, I think it's I think a lot of people are going through this right now as they're trying to convince other people. Like there's usually like I I have like a coaching program myself and like a lot of um, it's more of just like a tool that you can like design classes, but a lot of people that sign up for it are like, I'm one coach that's like doing CLA, and all the other coaches are not on board, and I'm trying to figure out how to like, you know, get some other people into it. So yeah, it's I again, I think a lot of people are going through this. So um I think your your story here will resonate with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

So it sounds like there was like an era post DeAndre, like when he joined, and an era before. Are there other, like, how would you describe the different eras of the the transformation and and development of the coaching?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Um, I think what it really was was that like DeAndre was the first, like very serious person to walk in. And it's actually uh something that someone told me one time I was like, if you want to see the results of the effectiveness of something, don't look at the top, look at the bottom. And our room is honestly like as much as I love our guys, I love our people, like before DeAndre showed up, like we're just a bunch of dorks and office workers and like not very athletic people. Most of us were like in our at the time I was in my late 20s, a lot of people were in their like mid-20s, like past that like teenage, you know, uh develop a lot of athleticism. Like everyone's just an office worker or like a regular person with like a kid or whatever. Uh, and Greg was able to make good enough guys to where DeAndre was impressed when he'd walked in, and he was already like an embedded black belt. Um, so I think that was the first big thing was getting a guy that was like going to take it all the way. Because expecting, you know, a 30-year-old dad to become an ADCC champion is is hard, but Greg was able to make a bunch of random dorks into effective grapplers. Um, so I think that was kind of it. Like beforehand, we had Alex. Uh a lot of people don't talk a lot about Alex, but she's impressive as hell. She's a fantastic grappler, uh, has won worlds, I think, at every belt level except Brown. Um, but Alex is kind of like a like sometimes she was all in, and then sometimes she was like, I want to go to school and like not grapple for a bit, and then she'd be back all in, and she'd be like, actually, I kind of want to hang out and just be be a girl out in the world. And, you know, that's uh nothing wrong with that at all. But we didn't have a guy like DeAndre who came in and was like, I am an athlete and I'm going to take this all the way to the end as as hard as I can. So that was the that was the real hard line. And then having that in the room, I think pushed the guys who could get more towards that level uh farther into it and made everyone else like it kind of inspired them to like like for me, I realized very quickly, like I'm not an athlete, I'm older. Uh if we're doing going down the list like physically, I do not have any attributes to make me like a good grappler. But it inspired me to be like, I need to be able to at least give DeAndre good training. Like, even if I can never compete, like I need to get good enough that like I can I can do something when we're training because his training matters, and then that just like vibe in the room was so good. Um, the team at that time was really good, and that's when we developed that idea of uh playing the game every day. So uh some of us would do one thing um that Greg would have us do uh collections of games that were more closely linked, like one situation a day. And then on the other side of the room, DeAndre and Trevor developed what at the time we called it the rudiment. We're like, what are the rudimentary situations of jujitsu, which was a guarded situation, a leg situation, a standing situation, a pinning situation. Um, and then eventually we combined guarded and legs, because it is the same thing. Uh, but at that time it was like figuring out like what kind of games can we play where we can play the whole game every day and and stay uh consistent with certain ideas. So DeAndre and Trevor were the guinea pigs there. And DeAndre got so like Trevor was a blue belt at the time. Um so that's another crazy thing, is like DeAndre came into a room full of blue and white belts, and that was how he was able to develop into you know the uh the trials era DeAndre came from that um training in CLA in a room full of white and blue belts that were just excited and really wanted to be good at what they were doing.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Okay, that seems like a huge mystery. Like, how like how did how did you guys do that? Um is there anything or any lessons that you can take away from how Greg designed the practice in that era to help use a bunch of white and blue belts to help DeAndre?

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Well, I think what actually helped was uh DeAndre kind of had to unlearn what he knew. Like uh I remember everyone felt so sweet because like DeAndre is like a black belt. He's a competitor, he's like known, right? And he comes in and all of us are like able to entangle him and like you know do stuff. So everyone's like, like I remember I got into like a like a leglock shootout with him on like his first time I trained with him, and I thought I was the shit because I was a white belt at the time. So I was like, I'm I'm good at this shit. But no. So his his willingness to like unlearn and reunderstand grappling through uh our what our framework has become now, um, as it was developing, like mixed with just his his focus, his dedication, his uh how disciplined he is, uh how intentional he is about everything he does, um, I think just shot him through skill development so much quicker than other people get there. Um yeah, I think that's really all all it is. Uh like the training is effective for anyone, but if if he he as himself can take it farther than people just because he's he he's who he is.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Yeah. What do you think are like if you can rattle off just like the list of classic mistakes or speed bumps or challenges people go through when they take on CLA that you've seen in Greg, and then also just like all the feedback in the school community?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Uh there's two really big ones. One is like language. Um I think uh sometimes people see the correct things, but they don't know how to express it in a way that isn't tied to a move or an outcome. And it um then it affects how they approach the problems or how they approach game design because they're they're thinking too specifically. Um and that's something that I'm very passionate about is like how just talking super generally about things so that it you're very open to problem solving through any scenario. Uh, I think that's that's the first one is just developing a a clear understanding of what is actually happening in any given exchange. Um and then the other one would be everyone wants everything to be solved in like a day. It's like playing a game where it's like I'm keeping the feet off me. And they're like, well, what if they do this? What if they do that? What if they do that? And it's like I could teach you every pass and have you drill it, and you're it's still not gonna come out in a day. You still gotta do it over like a course of a year or two, you know what I mean? So like it's okay if the first day there's like a million things that pop up because those are just problems that you can start to address later on. But I think wherever we go, they're like, well, what if I what if this? What if they do that? What if they do that? And they want the entire problem of grappling to be solved in one session, uh, which is just not realistic. Um, we have to be thinking in days, weeks, months, years. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yeah, one thing um as I was kind of like doing this over the past couple years that I really struggled with, because I'm very like analytical and the like messiness of everything was uh hard for me to deal with, you know. Um and one like frame of mind that really helped me was the messiness is okay as long as the intention is there, you know, like the the intention is the most important thing, not the the preciseness of things. And that's kind of the foundation of everything. And then you can build like preciseness in later, but if the intention's not there, then like the the problem solving aspect of it is not gonna be there. Um, so that was I think the biggest thing for me as I've been, you know, in like in c uh designing classes in this way over the past few years has been that uh mental hurdle for myself. You know. Yeah, definitely. Um, Josh this might be a good time. The one thing I struggle with currently um is I feel like I have a good understanding of designing games and giving the attacker the win condition, but giving the defenders win condition is something where I feel like the games start to fall apart. Um so like the the thing that I'm trying to balance, and I've heard Greg talk about it, is like you want to create a culture where the defender isn't just like disengaging and running away, they're kind of standing in the fire and trying to solve the problem. And this also gives the attacker the ability to explore the connections more thoroughly, and the defender's not just running away all the time. But like, for example, um last week I was introducing my students to K Guard, and I had them play a game from K Guard, and I made the defenders win condition um initially that they had to like touch their shin, um, like get outside the legs and touch their shin to like the upper part of the guard player's body to win. Um, but this led to like the defender kind of extracting their leg out, and then it was like trying to pass soupai and open guard for like a minute because they couldn't get their shin all the way to the upper body. Does that make sense? And then we were kind of like losing track of the uh of the the positional goals to like work on K guard and like for the most part, people were just trying to pass open guard instead of K guard. So then I modified the win condition to just be like get outside the feet and touch your shin to any part of the outside of their body. So like you can touch your leg or your shin to their shin or whatever, you don't have to get it to their upper body. So this is how I did it. Um and I removed the ability to just like extract the leg completely to win. Um but yeah, I'm just curious. I guess that was a very long specific example, but uh, I'm curious how you go about designing win conditions for defenders and some things to keep in mind when when doing this.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Well, it I think you were kind of you were on the right track there. Like I I think everything always has to be like opposites, right? We're playing a zero-sum game, it's always opposite. So if the goal is like keep the hands off, then the other person's goal is put the hands on. You know what I mean? Like it's always opposing. I think that's just the the simplest way to look at it. Uh and then for K guard, like, yeah, staying on your feet, clearing the feet, and getting outside is like a great uh objective for the uh defending player. But you you did what you're supposed to do. So you notice something, they're taking too long to get to the outside. So maybe you need to constrain it further to make it uh easier for the defending player to end the exchange where you would because you would like them to spend more time in that exchange. Change in that in that cake art scenario. So that you did everything right, I would say. Um yeah, you just we talk about things being diagnostic a lot. Like you have to be able to look out and see like, okay, what is the result and is it in line with what I'm trying to get to come out? It was not in line because you saw too much time being spent in an area where you did not want them spending time at in that moment, so you restructured it to give them more opportunities to spend time in that moment. So that's yeah. Okay, perfect. Yeah. Thank you. I actually uh uh you saying earlier, like you how you're very analytical. Um just quickly off topic, I actually used to watch you guys so long ago. Like uh back in the day when I first started getting into like talking about things, and me and Greg first started talking about making videos. Um, there was only like two channels that I thought were like good like jujitsu or grappling channels was like DPS breakdown, and like uh there was one called like Ayrsher Grappler, but I don't think it's around anymore. Um and then I remember Greg being like, Yeah, you know, there's no good jujitsu channels right now. It's all people just showing moves. And I was like, Well, actually, less impressed more involved. They're they're seeing things that I think we're seeing, but maybe the language is something that we're like differing on a little bit, like the understanding, but the the things they're seeing are the same. And then we would watch your videos together at the school, and I I I remember that like a long time ago. So yeah, it's cool to be here.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Uh yeah, I really appreciate Greg reaching out and uh like opening up communication between us and you know all of you. Um because I do feel like I was very like you were talking about, like being very specific and not seeing the general um battles as as much. And it's completely transformed the way I I think about jujitsu. Um so yeah, you guys have had an incredible impact on the way I just approach studying and teaching and like skill development in general. So um yeah, it's uh the respect is mutual. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Rod, I remember uh last time you guys were out here in San Diego um at South Bay, I was talking to you after your class a little bit and um about great transformation and stuff. And it seemed like at the time the recent obsession or era was like human beings doing human things. Uh is that still like the latest, recent, simplest, like distilled down version of his framework? And and can you talk a little bit about humans doing human things for people don't know?

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, that's something that actually he introduced uh to the room, but I think I held on to that idea harder than anyone else. Because now we're like everyone kind of understands what we're doing. The room is kind of on the same page about how we choose to understand grappling, how we choose to talk about grappling. So it doesn't really have to be talked about as much because everyone is just kind of on the same page, and now everyone is like talking more about like different metas and different things, like strategic things we can do because the the training and the language is all agreed upon at this point. But I am still like clinging to the language because I'm working with other people. Um, and I think that that's gonna be the next gap now that uh I see how the sport has changed, and like if you're still talking about don't train CLA, like you're just so far behind everyone else. Like everywhere we go, I see you know, all the up-and-coming guys that are good, all the all the new kids that are good, their coaches, um talking to all these people, and they're all training CLA. Like it's just it's just the way you train now, uh, if I'm being realistic. Um, if you're not doing it and you're still resisting it for some weird reason, like some guys are even doing it and just not calling it that because they don't want to concede points, but it's like everyone is training this way at this point. Um, but the next big thing is just going to be like, how do we choose to understand grappling and um so I'm clinging hard to humans doing human things, pushing, pulling, connecting, uh rotating, basing, just simple terms that that describe what's always happening. Um and I think that's gonna be the most important thing because what I've noticed going through all these seminars, the CPU ask questions is like because things get so specific, saying something very simple sounds more complex for some reason, but it's like it shouldn't. Like uh I think you might remember at that San Diego seminar, like Greg was like, if you have your hands locked around an arm and a head, you win, like no matter what that looks like. And everyone's like, what about back? What about front headlock? What about this? And then it was like, and he kept saying, Is are your hands locked around their arm and head? And then everybody was like, Oh, like, and it's it's like confusing. And then even uh when we start playing games, and it's like like people have to give it some name, some goofy name in order for it to make sense to them. Maybe humans are more childlike in that way, like maybe the the metaphor helps, but it's like uh there was like a choose your own game with when I was at a seminar and I was like, Yeah, let's just play uh hand fight to close hands, and he's like, hand fight to close hands, and I was like, Yeah, hand fight to close hands. Oh, circles. And I was like, Okay, call it what you want to call it, but let's uh but yeah, it's like is is closing my hands around your body not simple enough terminology? Like and people, I think it makes people feel smarter or more analytical when they can look at it in all these different highly specific situations, but uh in my own, like in my own speaking to other people, like when when anyone asks me for help, like I always try and keep it super simple. Like uh a quick example, I had a friend who he's really into barumbolos, and uh he saw a really cool entry where you barmbolo into uh straight into inside entanglement, and he was like, Oh, I'm not really understanding how I would get there, like when I go here, and I was like, Well, let's think simply. You like to barmbolo. When you do it, you look for either the hips and on top, or you look for the hips to get behind. If we're trying to entangle, all entanglements happen when you have feet inside or the leg across. So look for the feet inside or the leg across as they resist. And then we played from there, and immediately he started entangling inside. And it's like the leg across looks a million different ways. It didn't have to look like a drag, it just literally be the foot coming across, and then that gives you a chance to kind of get your hip closer. But just feet inside, leg across. It's that simple. We don't have to talk about like he did this grip, he did that, he he pushed off the mat at this time, he did this, and like when we get overly specific, uh the simple intentions get lost. And um yeah, it doesn't have to have a fancy name, it could just be my feet are inside of your feet.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Yeah, and I think this is why um the match reviews that you're starting to get into more and more are are really, really cool to see because they're just so different than like what you typically see out there, I think. Uh what got you interested in doing match reviews?

SPEAKER_00 30:24

This specifically. Like I need to get better at talking to people and uh talking about jujitsu and and look like I look at it and I say things and sometimes it's like a scary thing because in reality, it's like who am I? I'm I could I can't really say I'm like great at jujitsu. Uh I am not a competitor, I haven't coached anyone, I haven't like there's no reason for anyone to really listen to me, but that's why I'm really thankful for like school and Greg is that uh he trusts in my my view of grappling and he was able to give me this little platform where these people trust me, you know, and it's uh I really value that trust that people put in me because again, there's no reason for anyone to be listening to me. So it feels really good when like you know, I get guys that are competing in Euros or European trials that I like admire and they're like, Rod, help me. It's like so cool to me that I get to like look at their grappling and and practice speaking and and do some work. Uh, I think that's uh important is like I I kind of get to, I'm lucky that I kind of safely get to do the work behind the scenes. You know what I mean? Uh school is like kind of closed door. If you're not a member, you're not seeing what I'm doing. For any of you listening that aren't on there, like they probably wouldn't know anything about who I am because it's all behind closed doors. Um, so I kind of get this like safe little bubble to to practice um speaking and and trying to communicate what I'm seeing in other people's grappling through simple language and maybe helping them reframe how they're looking at their own training. Um yeah.

unknown 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

What have you noticed about this practice? Like, uh, what are you getting better at? What was challenging in the beginning?

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Uh I think what's challenging is knowing where the line is where, like, am I over-explaining or going off on too many tangents? Like, because obviously everything is always like related. There's always more what-ifs, there's always more so finding the line of like what is relevant to this exchange that can be directly translated to practice that won't take away from anything else, or am I underexplaining? That's the other part, is like it in trying to keep it so simple that I miss some things. And sometimes I'll film these reviews twice because I'll f I'll describe something so simply that I'm like, wait, I missed this one specific thing that actually would have been super valuable to uh to talk about. Like in uh I did one for a friend Talia recently, and I completely missed going around the body as you're as you're trying to pin and pass. This pinning and passing the same thing. Um but I completely missed that. And I was walk, I was watching and I was like, oh, how could I forget to just mention this like simple idea that uh so yeah, that that's the main thing is just finding the line of like, is it over or under explained and is it going to be valuable and directly translatable to training?

unknown 33:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

So what's your process like? Do you uh let's say someone sends you the match and then what what's your process like for reviewing and putting all that together and sending it back to them?

SPEAKER_00 33:20

So I I watch the whole match um and I try and pick out key points that I think rather than go like moment to moment, I think a lot of reviews that I've seen like kind of get caught up in like, at this time you did this, but you could have done this. And then when this happened, you could have done this, and then later down the line, this happened, and but but the things are now unrelated. So I just look at like what can I notice that they were intending to do is the first thing. And what was stopping them from doing what they intended to do? And is it an overarching theme across the match? So sometimes people will get like swept or like flash submitted, but that's not actually what I talk about in the review. It'll be earlier on in the match, I'm noticing that you're having trouble once you've gotten to the line of the knees because you're not clearing hands well. And that's completely separate, but that's something that I noticed through the entire, you know, eight, ten-minute match. Um, so I look for very general overarching themes, one or two um that are easy to break down in something simple and actionable. Uh, then I point them out and give physical examples uh as I record, and then I design one or two example games. And if possible, I try to give them uh ways that they can modify the games based on what they personally feel like they need to work on. Um so that's the structure of each video. It's just here's what you did well, here's what I noticed uh across the entire match, and here's two games you can play to try and work on these things that I noticed. Um I try to keep it very straightforward, very simple, and not get too into like the nitty-gritty like you could have used a C grip instead of a back, you know, because that's kind of worthless, I think, personally.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Yeah. Um are there some common like themes that you see a lot over and over again as you're getting these?

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah, what are some of the guard passing? I think as a sport, guard passing is so behind. Um I think it's starting to evolve, and the guys that are good at it, like it'll be I'll see a random guy who I'm like, oh, this person is really actually doing the what they're supposed to be doing to work on their guard passing. And I think that's wrestling pinning passing is the is the next wave. Like uh I think so many people grapple like they're scared of the guard. They don't come forward, they don't stand over their opponent, they don't actually hold their opponent down. They rely on the fact that people want to be playing guard, so they kind of don't make them carry weight, don't uh pressure into their limbs and exhaust them. Uh and then when you face a guy who is doing that, it feels horrible. It feels miserable. Um and I think what a lot of the reviews I get, it is that like when people approach the guard, they're approaching like with their chest back and kind of avoiding putting their hands on them and dropping down to their knees before they've made it past anything. Like uh they're not trying to hold somebody down. Like the the the act of pinning as passing is not linked very well as a sport yet, I think. Uh not to say that no one's doing it. Like, obviously, there's there's a handful of guys right now that are like great passers and they dominate with it. So that's the main thing I see.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Okay, yeah, let's dig into that a little bit. Can you uh give us a little bit of the the meta there? Like, are there some common prescribed games or focuses or tasks related to that skill that you wish people would do more?

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Uh well, for the guys that are already good at getting in, it's like it's a lot of stuff with uh pinning and like riding and pulling base points off the mat, things like that. Uh we with DeAndre and and the people in the room, like we talk about like don't let the hands touch hands and feet touch you, don't let the hands and feet touch the mat. If the hands and feet can't touch you or the mat, they're not doing anything. So that's like uh some fun games that we play. But for people who are starting, I would say like they need to get comfortable just getting in there. Um, I like to compare it a lot to like Muay Thai. Like uh when you first start striking, you don't even know how to stand really, and people can kick both your feet out from under you so easy. It's like you you've never been there before, you know what I mean? Um it's the same with guard passing. We used to we used to play games we called it leg confidence, where it was like, can you hold one leg on the inside or both legs on the outside while standing over them and just stay there? Don't drop down, don't move anywhere. Just literally, can you stay above them? Even if they go to turtle, can you just keep your hands on them to stay above them and never let them get up off the mat or uh or put their feet and hands on you? Um so many people don't spend enough time there and they drop to their knees immediately because they're so scared of the guard that it feels like the wrong thing to do to stand up because they haven't spent time there. They haven't developed that confidence to just stand in the shit, keep the feet off you, don't let them entangle, don't let them get on the inside, uh, don't let their back up off the mat. Um, those are the the foundational tasks that I would say like most people who need to develop guard passing need to work on at this time. Because that's what I see the least of when I watch matches. I I watch a lot of like um the uh the circuits where people are still kind of up and coming, like finishers and stuff like that. Uh because I think those are very indicative of like where people's teaching is like going and what people are trying to do. Um so yeah, those are the big ones with passing.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

I'm gonna give you an impossible question here, but if you could design uh one game to have people just start off with um related to this central problem, like what would that most basic game be?

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Oh, line holding. It's it's it is this like if I can stay above you and not let you stand up. So like as the attacking player, I'm standing above you. I'm not letting your feet touch me. I am staying outside of the line of your knees as much as I can, or inside uh the legs at the line of the knees in order to hold you down. And bottom player is just trying to make me fall over or get up. So if I can stand above you without falling over and hold you down, actually hold you down, and not drop to my knees or start crashing forward, trying to lock my hands, trying to squeeze, trying to crush through whatever's in front of me, which is what a lot of people do when they pass, they just try to crush through. Um, and you can get away with that if you're really, really strong, but it's not good guard passing. Um so yeah, that just that line holding game. Can I hold the line of past your knees for as long as possible? Uh, you're gonna start to become an effective pinner and effective passer.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Very cool. Um, yeah, I feel like hours and hours and hours could be be spent there. Um can you talk, uh tell us a little bit about the videography journey and then also with school? I know um yeah, like a year ago when we visited Greg, we were like, man, you gotta like make money somehow. Like, what are you doing? Um so yeah, what's the journey doing video for for the for standard and then with school?

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yeah, so um when I was a kid, I was like a huge dork. Uh and I liked making anime music videos. So there's a YouTube account there somewhere, I can't find it, but there's like Naruto Fallout Boy music videos from like 2006. Uh and I had stopped doing it for like a long time until I started playing music and doing a bunch of other stuff. Uh and one day I just remembered, I was like, man, I used to really like editing videos when I was a kid. And my mom had a had a camera, and I was like, Mom, can I borrow your camera? And she was like, Yeah, sure. Um and I took it into the gym and I was like, Greg, can I film an open mat? And he was like, Yeah, of course, knock yourself out. And I made like one quick edit of just like my friend's training, and Greg like loved it. He was like, Oh my god, this is so cool. Uh and then there was like kind of talk about could I do this more? Um, but I was kind of like, I don't know, like I want to play with it, tinker with it. Then COVID happened, uh full pandemic, like shit lockdown. Uh, and Greg comes to me and he goes, Rod, I think we're gonna lose everything if we don't have something online to offer our the students that are here. Uh can you just come in with your camera? And you, me and uh one other guy, our friend, my friend Marshall, who is out in Seattle now. Um, we the three of us would come in and just film like instructionals, like the first wave of our type of instructionals, which were just things to work on at home if you had a partner. Um and that was kind of the start of me getting into this like flow of like, all right, I gotta edit and meet this deadline, put these videos up for uh for our members. And then I also learned to code uh to make like a quick, a quick and dirty platform people could log into. And uh the videos were organized in a better way than I could uh do on like YouTube or Facebook or whatever. Um, I made logins for everyone and like uh so I actually ended up leveling up a ton of skills in that time uh and ended up getting a job as a software engineer later on uh from making that app. That was like my main portfolio piece was the standard app. It doesn't exist anymore. Um, but that was like the first stages of me switching over from you know, figuring out what I'm gonna do moving forward, because uh, like I said, I had blown up my life. I didn't really know what I was doing. I just kind of wanted to do jujitsu and hang out. And um I was walking dogs as a for money. Um and then that's yeah, that's where it all started. And then uh around the time that DeAndre showed up and he wanted to compete a bunch, um, a lot of my practice was just in editing quick clips of him for Instagram. There's a lot of old clips of when I was learning to video edit. And then the first vlog stuff was at the first ADCC uh open that happened in Canada after the Vegas one. Um so it was, I guess, the second one ever. And that was more like I got to start to make these longer videos and uh experiment a little more and kind of put my own tastes into it now that I knew how to kind of work the camera. Um I when I was growing up, I was a really big fan of like Jackass, Viva La Bam. I like skate videos. All my friends were skateboarders when I was a kid. Um there's specific types of movies like visually that I like. So I was able to kind of play with it and uh you can see it change like from the first vlog to now. Like me get into like the style I wanted. I just didn't know how to get there at first. Just doing them over and over and over, following the guys around, making videos. Um that's been the past six years now.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Oh wow, it's been six years. Um you mentioned something about deadlines. That's really interesting to me because I feel like there's a lot of uh creatives out there who you just, you know, when the muse is there, you you get into your your your groove and you like doing the work and you're inspired, but then when it's not there, you just, you know, chill, maybe absorb more, you know, go on to the world, whatever. How did you get that discipline to be like, all right, this has to come out? I I have to put the bow on it and send it versus because that last bit is so hard sometimes to like know when a project's done, you know, there's always like little tweaks you can make to be sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

I think it was just the urgency. Like I work very well when the things are urgent. If you're if I'm not like gonna die, then it's like you can't really get me to do a whole lot. But at that time, it was like the whole gym is gonna fall apart. I need something to do because my job was reliant on people not being home, and then suddenly everyone is home and can't leave their house, so I have no other way to make money or do anything. And I was and then Greg is like, I'm gonna bring you on and we're gonna figure out how to do this shit. Uh, because he didn't know either. Um, so that was like a it was easy to be driven to do the things that I needed to do and to put them out as quickly as possible because it was like panic mode. It was like we don't know what's gonna happen. Like we just entered the f like this first time in my life I've ever experienced anything like a global pandemic. So yeah. Um yeah. And then I remember And then funny enough, sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, no, go ahead. Uh when we got into trying to make the first wave of like instructional content, Greg and I were so unhappy with it that it actually took us years to put out one video. Like there's a lot of unused instructional content like because we were so pressed on putting out something that we thought was good or like useful um with like good language and good structure. Uh it took us a very, very long time to get there. Um so yeah, there's a lot of stuff that was never even released. A lot of work that was done that no one will ever see.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Is that frustrating? Like you you put in so many hours like trying to make this thing good and it it's it's taking longer than you hope for, maybe?

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Uh a little bit, but mostly and just like it's a it's like a self-frustration. It's like, ah, what what am I missing? Like, why can't I see like why can't I visualize the end result and keep it consistent with what we're doing? Or like why is it so far off? Like, even if I get them kind of near each other, like it's I'm getting to a place where I'm comfortable releasing things that are imperfect. Um, but if it's so far from that initial visualization, like I I feel like I can. And Greg is the same way, like if he senses like like a vibe is off, like he'll tell me and ask me what I think, and I'll usually we're on the same page of like, yeah, something is off, or like we gotta maybe change this or change how we said this. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

What was off about all those years of before the first one?

SPEAKER_00 46:28

I think just the same things that I'm going through with these reviews, just like how much information do we give? Like, uh some things feel so important that they can't be left out, but maybe when you're actually presenting them, it feels more like a tangent and it feels more distracting and it's taking away from the initial thing. And it's like, do we talk about this philosophically based on our framework as just jujitsu, or do we just give you the game and let you start playing with it and exploring and coming to your own understanding? Um, how much information is too much, how much information is enough? It's just it's the same things that I'm kind of going through with these reviews now, but it was it was a it felt like a bigger scale than and it especially because uh Greg hadn't been doing like as many like seminars and stuff like that too. So he was also not as practiced at uh communicating this. I think once we got into more of that traveling around, talking to more people, seeing what people wanted, um, seeing other people's work uh that started working in that same space, it's kind of started to click for us, like, oh, we can do it this way. And uh I think people have been pretty positive. Like I've never had anyone come up to me and be like, your videos suck, and I hate that. Like I've never seen that. Uh so yeah, I think I think we got to a good place, and I'm I'm looking forward to making more and more.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Yeah, it's crazy to watch this wave over the last two, three years, maybe I feel like since Craig's first podcast. Um, it seemed like he was getting a lot of traction. And then to me, outside looking in, it felt like the tipping point was when you guys went to V Team and did that podcast. Was that what you say? Okay, yeah. What was the journey like and how how what's it like watching this wave just like change the entire sport of jujitsu?

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Uh it's interesting because it's like I don't know. I think in the beginning, our uh if I go back a bit, our mistake was that like something I liked about Greg was that he was very uh he was very like punk in a way that like he he always was like when he got to know me, he was like, you know what? And this is crazy because I've only ever had teachers in my life that were like horrible, like teachers who would force fill me even when I passed because they just hated my personality or whatever, like uh, and they felt more like they were more concerned with exerting some kind of power over me versus like actually caring about me learning something. Um, that's all I really ever experienced with adults in general growing up. So then as a fresh adult, still not having really any good like adult friendships or relationships like that, uh, or like with anyone that was older at all. Greg's only a little older than me. Um, but meeting him and him being like, you're awesome, and everything you do is cool, and do everything you do to the fullest because what you do is so sick. And it was like the first time I felt like a teacher like cared. And he'd like, he'd be like, the rules aren't written for us, Rod. And like he'd make me like jump over barriers. Like, I'd be scared, like, no, Greg, I'm not allowed back there. And he'd be like, it doesn't matter if you're not allowed back here, get back here. Like, I, you know, uh, he he was kind of a rule breaker and he was very abrasive. He's calmed down a lot over the years, but he loved confrontation. Every time I remember competing, I have videos of like people, like either the ref or my opponent or their coach or all three of them just getting super mad at Greg and yelling at him because he talked shit while he was coaching me. But in but he never talked shit in a way that was like that he was like lying, you know what I mean? Like he he would he would just tell things people tell people things they didn't want to hear that were true, uh, and they'd get upset. But that abrasiveness translated to his first you know introduction to the world, and he loved to argue and he loves pushing people's buttons and he likes upsetting people in an argument. Like, but he actually what he wants is for you to fuck with him back, but some people won't, and they'll just get like immediately defensive and get angry at him uh in a non-playful way. He wants you to be playfully angry with him. Uh but then that I think that initial exposure like really made people upset and turned off from the whole idea of uh ecological dynamics and the constraints-led approach. Um and just little by little, as he like got better at speaking to people, as he calmed down, just like as a as a person, as he got a little older and started to you know focus more on the work and not on just being psycho Greg uh in a good way, psycho in a good way. Um and building relationships with other people, I think just doing that video at B-Team and everyone seeing like these guys that I think you look at them and you don't think anything bad about the B-team guys, they're all really nice, they train together, they have a good community, they're they're uh their online presence is really good. Uh their athletes are are fantastic and they go out and they win stuff. Like nobody has anything like crazy to say about these guys, you know what I mean? Like uh there's no hatred there. People kind of want to be like them. Um and so seeing them get along with us and them kind of be open to what Greg was saying and have good questions for him, and see us all just as more just like people just having a good time and training and and sharing ideas, like that was the first time that like the comments weren't like, fuck this guy, I hate Greg so much, I wish he would go away, he's ruining jujitsu, he just wants money, he's a grifter. Like that was like up to that that video, those were all the comments, and then that video came out and the comments were like, you know what, this guy makes sense. You know what? This style of training makes sense to me now. And it was it was like a it was weird, it was night and day. Like that one video was the first time that I saw like just generally positive comments, even on Reddit, like Reddit still to this day, like people hate Greg on Reddit, but the one B-team post, people were like, you know what, this this is fine, this makes this kind of makes sense to me. Um I I think it was just a good uh all the variables were there to just have like a good showing of of what we're actually doing.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Yeah, I remember seeing on Greg's story maybe that you guys were planning to go to B team and out or or do something with them. And I was like, oh man, I hope they do it in person because I feel like this is the one opportunity, the like crossing the chasm moment they call it in marketing. There's yeah, there's like that curve of like the super innovators, early adopters, then this big gap between like the early majority, late majority, and like laggers, whatever, to in terms of adopting new stuff. And I felt like that big chasm was that moment when you guys went to B team, and I felt like you crossed it, and then everyone was like, Oh, they're doing it, like there must be something there. It's funny how it just switched like that.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Yeah, no, literally night and day.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Yeah, if you can go back to the beginning. Um did you know you guys were on to something?

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Uh I don't know. I think it's just like it's like a kind of lightning in a bottle type thing where just the right people showed up in the right room because they wanted to do something, and it's like something you can't predict or control. I just I just knew I liked Greg like just as a person. I liked the business as the way it was run, and that's what how I ended up there. I could have eat just as easily been at a gym five minutes down the street. Like it purely just I walked in and this felt like the place for me personally. And then Greg needing someone like me, like he's always telling me, like, uh, he's actually helped help me grow a lot. Like I was kind of more of a kind of shy reserve person uh leading up to it. But he's he's always been like, I couldn't do this without you. You know, we I needed to have you here to like show the world what we're doing in your beautiful way that is different from how I might be able to communicate it, and then having DeAndre come in and just having that perfect like vessel for showing our training, showing our philosophy of grappling, um, and being able to follow them around. Like I think it was just the right variables at the right time. That it's like something you can't force a creator sense. It just it's just like yeah, lightning in a bottle, that's what they call it, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:21

Yeah. Um, I've never been in a band, but I imagine that must that might be what it feels like to have a really good band where everyone plays their part really well and it fits in the way it does. Does that resonate with you at all coming from these? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Uh Greg and I actually watched this documentary about Led Zeppelin, and they kind of talk about them all meeting and what all their backgrounds were. And I'm like, yeah, these guys were all just really good at their thing that it was kind of separate from itself. Like like the bass player was like a church keyboardist, and like the singer was really into James Brown or like, you know, things that are unrelated, but they were just so good at what they did, and they understood that the other people were good at what they did as well. And if you listen to a lot of Zeppelin's like more busy music, nobody plays over each other. Like you'll hear a crazy guitar lick, and then he'll stop playing because he knows John uh fucking John Bonham is about to hit something cool, and he'll do something cool, and everyone will play very relaxed because they know they need to showcase this special thing that's happening. And then as soon as he's done, the bass will do a real quick two-second thing, and they'll get right back to the guitar riff. It's like they they know when to give each other the space to do the thing that the uh be able to shine a spotlight on each other uh and let them be the best versions of themselves. And for them, meeting was like lightning a ball too. You know, you can't predict that, but you just you're in the room, you start playing, and you and then they sense like, oh, this is where I need to be based on what I do. Um, and that's that's how our room has felt. Uh I feel very lucky, you know. I get to just from being there and being myself and doing the things I want to be doing with the right people, like I'm able to sort of build a life in the sport that I, like I said before, like I can't really do. Like I'm not I'm not athletic at all. Uh most people listening to this could probably come into the gym and beat my ass. But I love the sport. I love analyzing it. I love doing it. I love training. I love being around, you know, all the competition. I love filming it, um, and getting to build my life around it just from being around the right people is is super special. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Yeah, it's it's very evident uh just watching you guys and and watching you guys like, I don't know what the right word is, grow into what you are, mature into what you are. Um what what's next for you guys? What are some projects or initiatives or vision for the future that you're excited for?

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Uh I think just entering like this new era, um, because DeAndre's opening black box, uh, and we're all excited and supportive, you know. Um, that's something him and his brother have wanted to do for a long time. Um, and having them go back and forth right now, like it's cool, but them also being less present at our gym is like how do or how do we refocus to what we are doing on our own? Even though we're still gonna be affiliated, we're still gonna they're still gonna be competing under us and all that, they're still gonna be training together. Um, we're looking at how are we refocusing for our athletes that like we just had a bunch of people move to train with us. The room is getting uh the room is just different than it was, you know. We have a different team now, and now it's like how do we elevate guys like Sid? I don't know if you guys have been watching Sid Tabalaro. He's sick, he's a monster. He's like our next guy up that I like am really excited about because I think he's right at that. Like uh we've got a bunch of young competitors that are doing their thing and competing at at these bigger events, but as far as somebody who's like at that line that's they're about to break through into like competing at the at a higher level is uh is Sid. And I'm really excited. I really want to get everyone in the room excited about the same way that we got a bunch of white and blue belts to be good enough trading partners to get DeAndre to the top. Like now we've got blues and purples, and maybe our blues and purples can do enough and get excited enough about training hard to push Sid through that same um that same sort of progression. Uh I think that's really what I'm excited about. I as much as like school and seminars and all the stuff is like fun, I think at the end of the day, like being content creators is not really what the room wants. It's like we want to be really good grapplers. That's always a priority over any videos, any anything else. The the real thing that we want to be is good grapplers. And uh I think that's what's next is just continuing that that line.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Nice. I'm excited to follow the journey. Um as we wrap up here, can you tell people about the school program? You you mentioned a couple times like the closed doors, like what you guys do, a little bit about match reviews, but uh yeah, just an overview. What is the school program and then where do people go to join?

SPEAKER_00 58:46

Yeah, so it's uh schoolsk o L dot com slash standard jujitsu. Um essentially you're paying our gym membership. Uh, but what we do is film weekly lesson plans that uh are progressive so that the next week is always related to the week before. Uh we give you the lesson plan so you can run it throughout the entire week for your class. Uh if you're trying to transition your gym over to CLA and you need somewhere to start, that's like a great thing because on top of that, you get to talk with other coaches and with Greg directly and with myself. Um so that's the the major component of it is these weekly lesson plans. We're on week 18 now, um, and it's been going great. We've got a good little community there. Um, and we post full class videos along with the lesson plan so you can see how Greg will do it, or uh, we've got uh uh another coach, Julio, who will run the same classes as well. And sometimes it's nice to see a different coach try to implement what Greg is putting forward, so you get to see that. Uh on top of that, we've got um monthly meetings, two meetings a month now. We've switched it over. So uh calls with as many people from the group that want to join to talk about anything really, any questions they have about trying to implement the program in their room or just grappling in general or CLA in general, uh, or even to just like if there was a match the night before, you know, they want to talk talk jujitsu. Like um, that's that's what the the calls are there for. Uh I do match reviews on there, so you'll send me a match and you'll ask me either a specific question or just like what do you see? And uh I'll give you a match breakdown along with some games that you can play. Um and that's that's the bulk of it. Uh we post full seminars on there. I always do snippets of our seminars on YouTube, but um, you always get the the whole seminar, uh all the days of it too, if it's a camp um on the on the school. And yeah, so if if anyone's interested in enjoying that, uh it's there. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

Oh man, you mentioned one thing that I have to ask about DeAndre versus Dwayne, like most recent match. That when I saw that vlog, it was crazy. What a crazy two matches he had. Uh, and he just like recapped her thoughts from that event.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Um yeah, I mean, just as a fan, like all aside from me wanting anyone to win or anything like that, just I thought it was a great match. Uh like I was really impressed with um how DeAndre handled the wrestling, even though some people say, Oh, he got past, he got bounded. Like when you're watching, like the the hand fighting, the the the the constant level changing and fainting between the two of them, like Dorian is really good at that. And getting Dorian to bite on anything is crazy. Like, he's because he's so he's so tough and he's so uh focused on what he's doing. Um and it's just cool to see like as the sport is changing, like getting like these mega athletes that have been trading since they could walk, that are like, you know, DeAndre's 30. Like uh it's it's a little different, even though he also trained since he was a kid. Like it's a little different. The way the way Dorian is brought up is just different. He's just a different human being, and it's hard to replicate in the room, it's hard to prepare for, and it's hard to know. That was the first time DeAndre's ever touched him, so it's hard to know until you actually put your hands on them. Um if you watch the warm-up I posted in the vlog, you see like Gavin take a shot and DeAndre connect to the hips and shoulders, but like in a reverse way. Um and that was cool to see it come out in competition and for him to almost get like a good connection off of that. Obviously, Dorian's explosive and fast, and uh D lost it a bit, but uh yeah, I think we were on the right track with the training, and it's just now that DeAndre's touched him, uh, I'd like to see some kind of rematch because historically, when DeAndre loses a match and it's like the first time he's touched someone, the next time he touches them, he adapts very well. That's something that historically I've seen. So I would I would love to see a rematch because it's it's just awesome grappling. Like it's it's the kind of grappling I want to see, you know, not not conceding anything on either end.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

Yeah, it was super exciting. I hope they make a super fight or something. They gotta get those two guys back at it again for sure. But yeah, Rod, thank you so much for joining us today. Jake, any anything else uh from you that I missed?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

No, that was very helpful. Um, and it was nice to meet you. So I'm glad we got you on your first podcast and getting you the flowers you deserve after being behind the scenes for so many years.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Yeah, thanks so much, guys. Uh it's really fun being here.