Ever wondered what it takes to start a business within the competitive industry of athletic footwear? Meet Brock, the founder and creative mind behind Three-Point Takedown Wrestling Shoes. We journey together through his singular path of designing and prototyping wrestling shoes, the challenges he encountered, and how the college rules of the three-point takedown became an emblem of his mission. Take notes as Brock shares invaluable lessons around the importance of gathering unbiased feedback and the trials of brand development.
Stepping into the wild ride of wrestling, we dissect the nuances of weight cutting, discussing the implications of this practice on young athletes and the importance of a robust mindset. We reflect on traditional approaches to youth wrestling, the commitment of teams, the positive influence of clubs, and finding the right training environment. Brock opens up about his high school wrestling days, the impact of a supportive training system, and how he navigated the risks of cutting weight.
Finally, we dig deep into the transition from high school wrestling to college, examining how the pace of training changes and the challenges that arise. Brock delves into his experience of launching a shoe company in college, exploring shoe design, dealing with suppliers, and his future plans. Be inspired by a journey that highlights the advantages of bulk ordering, the importance of hands-on testing, and a deep dive into the world of entrepreneurship. Don't miss out as we explore these fascinating topics and provide insights into wrestling and entrepreneurial success.
3 Point Takedown Apparel Website:
https://3pointtakedownwrestlingapparel.com/
3 Point Takedown Apparel Instagram Acct:
https://www.instagram.com/3pointtakedownwrestlingapparel/
Appleton Tattoo Links
https://www.facebook.com/appletontattoo
https://www.instagram.com/mark_appletontattoo/
920 Hat Co. Links
https://920hatco.com/
https://www.instagram.com/920hatco/
https://www.facebook.com/920HatCo
Ever wondered what it takes to start a business within the competitive industry of athletic footwear? Meet Brock, the founder and creative mind behind Three-Point Takedown Wrestling Shoes. We journey together through his singular path of designing and prototyping wrestling shoes, the challenges he encountered, and how the college rules of the three-point takedown became an emblem of his mission. Take notes as Brock shares invaluable lessons around the importance of gathering unbiased feedback and the trials of brand development.
Stepping into the wild ride of wrestling, we dissect the nuances of weight cutting, discussing the implications of this practice on young athletes and the importance of a robust mindset. We reflect on traditional approaches to youth wrestling, the commitment of teams, the positive influence of clubs, and finding the right training environment. Brock opens up about his high school wrestling days, the impact of a supportive training system, and how he navigated the risks of cutting weight.
Finally, we dig deep into the transition from high school wrestling to college, examining how the pace of training changes and the challenges that arise. Brock delves into his experience of launching a shoe company in college, exploring shoe design, dealing with suppliers, and his future plans. Be inspired by a journey that highlights the advantages of bulk ordering, the importance of hands-on testing, and a deep dive into the world of entrepreneurship. Don't miss out as we explore these fascinating topics and provide insights into wrestling and entrepreneurial success.
3 Point Takedown Apparel Website:
https://3pointtakedownwrestlingapparel.com/
3 Point Takedown Apparel Instagram Acct:
https://www.instagram.com/3pointtakedownwrestlingapparel/
Appleton Tattoo Links
https://www.facebook.com/appletontattoo
https://www.instagram.com/mark_appletontattoo/
920 Hat Co. Links
https://920hatco.com/
https://www.instagram.com/920hatco/
https://www.facebook.com/920HatCo
We're live dude!
Speaker 2:We're live. So we are joined for yet another awesome podcast I have in my studio, which people kind of guessed her didn't know if I did or didn't have. Well, I have. So I'm uh, I'm on that camera right there, see, and then he's on the other one over there. But we are joined with three times state champion from Denmark, rock bergain, also a three-point takedown owner. Let's give him a hand. Appreciate you coming in on, appreciate it, how you doing you know well, yeah, so we're just kind of talking about the three-point takedown, talking about this, this thing that you're trying to grow. Let's, let's kind of start off with that and then we'll kind of, then we'll dig into the Brock burglin story. So you start how, how, how did you get this started? Like, what made you want to do it? What was the key?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, and you know, maybe a couple people that watch this will know, but flicker used to be like a huge platform for trading wrestling shoes back in the day.
Speaker 3:So, you know, I mean, I grew up my whole life, obviously, you know, wearing wrestling shoes while I'm wrestling, yeah. But also like there was like a huge, like collector side of it and like people would pay like oodles and oodles of money for like these shoes that were like sold out, etc. And like to like, at all these big national tournaments, like people would trade shoes, sandals or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah so it's. It was like a very niche market at the time. But there is like one thing that was like for certain and it's like you know, like I just felt like the like the wrestling shoe community, as I've grown up through age, like it's just very lazy. I mean, obviously, wrestling shoes. They're not tens and twenties of millions of dollars of like you know Like it's just it's never gonna be that mainstream.
Speaker 3:But with that is kind of become laziness and you know, I think you know throughout time, like some, you know Like there's been stuff that's done right, yeah, there's been. There's been shoes at good price points that are awesome shoes, but like those shoes come and go and also too, like a lot of those shoes, like I mean, you'll see the ideas, combat's, like those things haven't changed in 30 years right and right and like there's been like no innovation with like the Gresser and like the inflict and like whatever, and I'm not saying that Like that makes them bad shoes, but like, yeah, you're charging a hundred thirty hundred forty bucks for shoes that have been out for eight years and you've done nothing with them.
Speaker 2:She had to improve, yeah.
Speaker 3:So that was kind of like you know, like a huge opportunity for me. Um, you know, and I kind of with like Adobe Photoshop and stuff, like I just started going and yeah, I'm sketching a little bit, based on some different designs that I've seen throughout my life and shoes that I've actually worn and like, really liked Well, and then just tried to, you know, try to communicate with suppliers and stuff and yeah you know, try to make a business model out of that.
Speaker 3:So, like the last year and a half, I've been designing and prototyping shoes.
Speaker 2:Um, obviously, yeah, yeah, put it up there.
Speaker 3:Yep. So right here's a prototype, right here, nice, obviously for the. These are just a prototype for my final design. The souls will be black and then they'll have the three-point take that logo on them.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:That was kind of like. The big thing, too, is like I had the shoe for a while and everything. Yeah the branding is so weird and like, honestly, like of all things, like that was one of the hardest things to decide on is like, what is my brand gonna be like? What is my logo?
Speaker 2:the stuff.
Speaker 3:And then like, yeah, like the college rules came out though with that three-point take down and like, how awesome is that. Like you create a shoe and you're like like, if you want to shoot a model like being aggressive, like going at your Opponent, like being a wrestler, like that is three-point take down nice, Nice you know, going after a guy scoring as many points you can, and then right obviously like there's like the cool way of holding up Three yeah, just like that so it all kind of end up working out.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it's been a, it's been a fun experience. You know, I've probably made six or seven prototypes throughout this and really, you know, and the interesting thing that I've learned is, like, because I've actually like I've tried to make like similar shoes to like a Scrap life right, yeah, and like they just like fell apart like right away and like a lot of the things, like the same things are on those like scrap life shoes, yeah, like I actually had models, mates, really similar to them, and like fell apart after like ten wares, no kid, and you know. And then I've had some shoes that like had like the best durability, yeah, but then they kind of look clunky sure.
Speaker 3:So then along the lines like I kind of learn and like I'd wear these shoes all the time and like, just like, ask as many people as I can like Honestly, what do you think about these, and just try to get as much real, unbiased feedback as I could yeah. Just keep building off each model.
Speaker 2:That's well, and to have the insight to. I mean, obviously you've been wearing Wrestling shoes for how long, right? I mean? Wrestling yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you kind of got a feel for what you thought was comfortable. I mean talking to guys too, especially at the college level. I mean you start talking about guys who need shoes. The last you know you got a in the plus sponsorships. Who knows that? You're even getting a shoe that you like you know when you're, when you're wrestling, and the team gets a certain kind. So going through the motions of kind of picking through the shoes, like was that? What you did was that you took a little bit of this and you took a little bit of that and took a little bit of this, but then you're kind of like wait, nobody does this, I Want to do that on the shoe, kind of thing. Was that kind of the?
Speaker 3:yeah, exact motions.
Speaker 2:You went through. Yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 3:I mean pretty much just trying to Visualize what I wanted in a shoe, yeah, and then add a couple different things and the biggest thing was like is like durability, yeah, and like even like as a as a first-time company owner, like I'm sure this year, you know, probably my my biggest downfall that I might see is like quality, and that's like I Don't even know how that will go, and like I've put the most amount of money into like the highest quality materials. I can get sure, yeah, but even then, like like you'd think that like a rudeness has got to be doing that right, and like their shoes fall apart All the time. So, like it's definitely gonna be a learning year for me, but the only thing that I can do is, like you know, just back my shoe if something goes wrong. Just try to communicate and get the people to you know if their shoes fall apart after a month. Like it's unacceptable. I'm like you just get them a pair of shoes.
Speaker 3:Yeah you have to learn from every year and you know, try to not make those mistakes every year.
Speaker 2:So well, and you've been wearing these shoes for how long, like you've been testing out for how long? Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, and I've actually, I've actually like I've damaged like a pair of shoes of these that are very similar. Really. No, it's nice, this, uh, this material right here. It's a pretty unique material, but I've actually had this fray off on me and I've had to change the material.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, okay you know.
Speaker 3:So, like I've learned stuff like that, and then even, like you can see, originally I just had this hot printed and the logo fell off. Okay, now having it hot printed and then also sewn on yeah you know. So like just learning things like that, like this is my third pair of shoes like these that I've already had so, no, okay, I'm out of time. You know, I've had nine months to just wear these things every day.
Speaker 3:That's good, to beat them up and that's cool you know, obviously Get some good wear out of these, and yeah he's still looking pretty pristine.
Speaker 2:They do. I was gonna say you got. You got shoes there that look like they're still pretty brand new man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, and wear them for a couple months and yeah, they're still holding up pretty good and nice. Yeah, they keep that like like that new feeling for a while. Like you know, they're not and they're not flimsy, you know.
Speaker 2:I know I can't wait.
Speaker 3:It's really really thick inside.
Speaker 2:This fat dude's ready to get a pair of those on that for sure, man. So when they get in, I'm excited and it's good to hear the other way and it trust me, I totally know the pains that you're going through trying to get stuff back over on time. I mean, we learned, like, just with the business that I do with customs, you know, and going through an area foreign, they're gonna go through your stuff, look at it, and sometimes they're not even look at your stuff right away. Your stuff could sit in a corner for a month. You know, it's really really when it comes to overseas customs, it's kind of the same thing here. They do what they want, like they, whatever palette they see. If they're like oh yeah, okay, well, we'll wait on that, they'll let it sit around, you know.
Speaker 2:So there are struggles with that. So I hope people understand, because it's not easy getting stuff in-house when you're dealing with, like a Pakistan, or you're dealing with, especially with the materials, like not all the materials are from here, right, so there's certain things you got to get. So I mean, if people are just patient enough to wait to get something good, right, they're coming, they're on their way. I know I'm excited to get mine, so I'm pumped, oh yeah. So let's start from the beginning. Now. Let's start from the beginning of Brock. You started in where you are from, denmark. Is that where you're born and raised? Yep.
Speaker 3:I'm raised pretty much right in the city limits. My fun fact that probably I mean nobody would know about me Is the Denmark football field is actually named after my grandpa. Oh, no, kidding. So like you see me get really into coaching. That's like family, family limit, like yeah. Like my, my grandpa coached Denmark for for football for probably 30, 40 years for sure so nice into it and you know, it's kind of kind of cool to be able to carry on that legacy with coaching.
Speaker 2:So did you? Did you when you were young? What was your first memory of sports? What it was that because your grandpa coached was that part of it was football. Or when did you really begin the sports journey?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean it started with hockey at a really young age. Wow, for yeah.
Speaker 2:How can Denmark?
Speaker 3:No, it wasn't even in Denmark. It was my mom's side of family. They got a couple hockey players and my cousin, who's my age, played hockey. Okay, so that's kind of how that began. Nice but then I gave that two years, but the second year my my dad wrestled a little bit, just like a little bit like he was like back when high school. He's to have like the 95 pound weight class.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, so like pretty much like a freshman in high school and they're like yo dude, like the one guy that's under 95 pounds, and they got him to join the team and stuff. Yeah, that's awesome. So he joined the team for a couple years and then hit puberty and then he'd know how good you do those, so you quit. You know, he liked like like. He liked the idea of wrestling. Yeah, we out there and I just loved him, man, from like day one, you know so you're a little.
Speaker 2:You're a little when that all started, there's five years old, okay, so that's about when Liam started, but we're with the coaching side of it. Were you always the type of guy that had Good backup in your corner? Your parents are good support system, things like that. Like how was that kind of I guess what lack of a better term. How did they help you through that? How did that? Were your parents a big proponent of you wrestling, for sure? Okay, okay, it was.
Speaker 3:I mean just even like the sacrifice at like a young age to really believe in your kid. Yeah, I mean like yeah it's a big ask, even if, like your kids, got all a talent in the world and they're older yeah, they're like 14 and to give them the practice every day, you know, like I was, I was like 10 years old and like I don't know, if you know what like Fox Valley lead is oh yeah.
Speaker 3:So I started out at Fox Valley elite and you know like just for my parents to drive me all the way over to Appleton. So that was 45, yeah 45 minute drive me and Ty Lee would just be each other up every day. I just saw him the other day, yeah big conna boys, and then yeah yep, through time I started going to X factor and then okay kangaroo and like pretty much like how it worked when I was a kid is like Scott P lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, X factor yeah.
Speaker 3:Yep, so like you just would like in, like the beyond keys and stuff like though. We traveled every every tournament, yeah, but like my parents didn't necessarily come to every tournament, just cuz my dad might. Both my parents are small business owners as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So they won't travel like everything, but like you know, like they'd get me in every practice. Okay yeah, for traveling to tournaments and stuff, I just jump in whatever van I could and Going out like big, poor nationals, like all the you know, pretty much everywhere, like same thing that we am doing right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, getting as much as you can. So when you, when you started out I mean you're in a small town, so we used to actually the house we lived in in Oshkosh, we actually went and got the remnants of Denmark Matt that they had there. They must have gotten a new one, so I can't. I think I was working in Oshkosh at the time and someone had just used Matt for sale and there was actually a girl that I worked with that went to Denmark Sarah. She was older than you, but I can't remember her last name.
Speaker 2:I picked this Matt up and I was like, yeah, it's like a purple and yellow. She's like where'd you pick it up from? Was like I think it was up by Denmark. She was no way, that was the high school Matt's. We had a chunk of your high school Matt and our dining room for a long time, like we didn't have I don't think we had a dining room table in the right spot for about four years, five years, because that Matt was in there. But when you, when you started wrestling and you were young, right, where did your parents take you to when you were that little?
Speaker 3:Um, I mean, it was honestly and like it was just like every youth tournament, like I would wrestle, like every Saturday, every Sunday.
Speaker 2:Were they taking you to Fox Valley Lethal? Was that like the first thing? That was Fox.
Speaker 3:Valley. It was like the first thing really yeah Wow. So Fox Valley for like two years just solely Fox Valley Lee.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Then, as I got older, x factor is a little bit closer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, and obviously guys like Paul Bianchi were in that room like yeah. I mean there were, there was killers in that room then.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, I went. You know I wouldn't go on record of saying like we're better than Askern is now, because I don't like buy the numbers, that I just don't think that's true, but like we were pretty close, yeah, I think in one year there's like all the division two like of the 14 state champs I think like eight of them were out of that club.
Speaker 2:I remember going to and this is at kangaroo. But I mean, if you're talking about that crew, I remember going to kangaroos where those guys would partner up in the back and we're talking freestyle season still, yeah, and but the but those guys are throwing each other and having fun doing it. Like you heard boom in the back corner because someone just got their head, you know, slammed into the map. But they're all having fun doing it. They're all having fun beating the crap out of each other. They got back up, they shook hands, they laughed about it, that kind of thing. So if you guys are doing that in the Fox, the elite room, I can only imagine, cause I know how the lead brothers are and you guys are crazy, by the way. So you guys, you had a really good crew to come up with. So, as you start, you know, like you said, you were kind of going to any kind of tournament you could around here. What was your first tournament memory?
Speaker 3:Um, so I would say, not necessarily like my first memory of a tournament, but like my first like breakthrough moment where, like I felt like I really broke through and like I still remember that to this day, was a taken eighth place at Iowa postseason nationals. And I was like you know, like obviously I had placed a couple smaller national tournaments but like those that know wrestling know that like there's like national tournaments and then there's like legit national Right and like back in the day, like Iowa postseason was like the tournament to go to it was one of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:And yeah, that was before like flow existed, like super 32 kids didn't exist at that time.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 3:So like if you were a youth kid like, and if you wanted the best competition with the Tulsa or postseason or both, and so in a place there I remember that was like big time.
Speaker 2:That is pretty big dude.
Speaker 3:That was back when super 32 was literally was invited only, I think it was 32 guys in the bracket, 32 and no and no like kids division, like. I was only a middle school, so I couldn't have even gone.
Speaker 2:Right, it was all high school at the time. So you got down to post. You got down to postseason national, postseason right. You said postseason nationals. You hit it kind of big and that's I mean that's big, right. I mean, so you come back home and what kind of? What kind of fight? Did you notice a difference in yourself after that Kind of, when you come back home and start competing around here again, did you start separating yourself a little bit?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean for sure there's no bragging.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tell them facts. Tell them facts, I mean the facts.
Speaker 3:the facts of the matter are is like I mean, you go against the best, you're going to come back and it's just such a big fish, small pond, I mean like even like I was talking about it. Practice today, like my sophomore year, like when I won state I like technically that took second, like you know what I mean. So like there's like that type of separation, that's all yeah, for sure, and yeah, I mean it's just, it's just unreal.
Speaker 3:I mean because, like, when you fully give your all into it, like and you're like truly obsessed about it in that manner, like I mean, yeah, like, even like, even watching like Liam or us on nowadays, like starting to like, really, you know, full force into puberty and stuff. Right and strength growing yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I saw him, like you know you got to think about this from like a parent, like financial and like commitment perspective. Is like another kid that is spending their money to go to Greensboro, north Carolina, in the preseason right and like like Liam texts the kid so, like that to me is like huge separation, Like that kid sitting down with his family and being like I'm ready to go to this tournament and expecting them to pry pay I mean over a thousand dollars to get that.
Speaker 2:Well over.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well over and like to have that type of separation. I mean, that just kind of proves it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, liam's like that same way. We're like competing and training 12 months out of the year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and that's it. And so we, we kind of I. So I competed at a higher level. I wasn't in wrestling but I was in soccer, so I knew what it took. I knew that it took dedication, because a lot of what I did wasn't camps. You know, when I was young my parents didn't afford a lot of that stuff, Like I didn't. I didn't have any types of like camps to go to I would. I had a curb, I had a garage door and I had a Yorkshire Terriers a defender Right. So I did everything that I could with what I had, with what I was capable of doing, and it made me pretty good. You know, I didn't. I played for some national teams, things like that. So now, knowing what the kids have available to them and to not, as a parent, to not get them, that is so first of all, you have to know what your kids goals are right.
Speaker 3:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you want to know what your kids goals are. You don't want to put them in through something that you obviously know they're just going to get spanked right or they don't have the desire. Well, when I I kind of equate it to like Kerry Colott when he told his dad of, like nine, I want to be a world champion, I want to he was like I shouldn't have told my dad yeah, because from then on he's like once you start, we need to stop. And that's what I told him. I was like those are your goals, like those are real and this is what you need to do.
Speaker 2:So I mean, all this, this used to be a workout area down here. This, all this whole area had the mat was right here, and then he had the bikes and he had a bow flex over there Five o'clock every morning. You're down here. I think you're what he was doing. I think I think, as long as you're lifting pushups, whatever, there was no regiment to do anything. It was just to get down here at five AM, that's it.
Speaker 2:So I told him I was like this is what just high school is going to require. So if you don't like it now, you might want to think about it right. So where your, where were your parents at and when not necessarily when you brought your goals up, but like when they saw that you were starting to do better and you were starting to grow as a number one, as a kid but also as an athlete that they start saying, hey, we got to kind of get you to this stuff, or was it kind of you're getting info from your coaches, taking it to your parents and your parents like, all right, let's go, we want to take you, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, I think it was definitely a little bit of both. But, like from a young age, I've just always had like drive, yeah, I just knew what. I wanted it's awesome. Like I'm a psychopath. Yeah. Like you know what I mean. I mean like I'm literally here for like 13 days. I'm doing like I'm at camps for 12 of those days.
Speaker 3:And the day was like back to back, like we got done with work, went to one practice, I went to kangaroo and then like come do this podcast. Like I just you know I have the ability to like lock in and really focus, which is like a very desirable trait to have as like an athlete and like I would say, like you know, like my my mom obviously like never wrestled and my dad like didn't really wrestle a ton either.
Speaker 3:Get huge in a sports, yeah. So like I would just say like they definitely knew like that they needed to like get me to practice and stuff, okay yeah, but like it wasn't like they were like pushing me, but like to like if I like and there's like one specific time, or like I didn't want to cut weight. I was actually after I won my won my first day title in high school. Yeah, I was like screw this, dude. I'm like you like shit for a couple of?
Speaker 3:years, yeah, and so, like you know, and I had actually so, this was post-season nationals my sophomore year, and I beat the kid that wanted it, 106.
Speaker 3:And I was. I was split with the guy that made the finals at 13 and I decided to go 120 and I just wrestled 106 a couple of weeks ago. But like I was growing, Like it's just like felt weird. Like it felt weird at that point that cutting weight and stuff. And I remember coming back from that my mom was not too thrilled. She was like you're not taking serious and stuff. So like that's a little bit of that, but like nothing too crazy, like definitely not. Sure, I'm sure a lot of more parents give more guidance, but like I just felt like I I didn't need, like I really didn't need as much, like even like I was cooking for myself at like 14, like to like meal prep and shit, yeah, and like you know, like that's when you know that, like you're taking it on your own is like when you're starting to take those steps, like that.
Speaker 3:So, for me it's like my parents like were supportive, Like they went and got the groceries.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know sort of doing like they got me to practice until I got my license. Once I had my license, they're like Yippie, yeah. They're pretty excited, Like yeah, yeah. Cause like literally, I'd go to the Wisconsin RTC once a week. Yeah, you gotta think like when I was in high school we didn't have a WA and Green Bay. So, I went to the RTC once. Yeah, I went to the Asker and location like the main one once a week.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Then I went to X Factor like once or twice.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I'd go to kangaroo once or twice, so like that was a lot of driving and like my parents were you know, three years, I mean fair enough, like they're pretty worn out. So like when I got my license, like my parents were ecstatic yeah, they were. They're so pumped, dude, no idea.
Speaker 2:So I've actually had Liam out a couple of times practice driving, because that's kind of where we're at, and I was like, once it may hits, you're driving yourself, dude, oh, you're driving yourself. So I remember I think PD told him that too. I think Lucas Pierce said to Liam he goes when may hits, I'm not driving you anywhere anymore, because you get your license, you're driving yourself. And I agree, totally agree. So I take him out though, but he has no desire really to get his license.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So we're, this weekend we'll be doing a lot of driving. Next week we're doing a lot of driving, you know, and I would put him through the ranks because we got these nice tight alleyways with snow banks and stuff. He doesn't like things on the side, so we're going to get some driving practice and so we'll see what's up, especially once winter hits. But so your parents did a great job getting you around. I mean, obviously they kind of it seems like they didn't take a backseat necessarily, but they were just kind of in the wings. You knew what you were doing and you were surrounded with the right people. It's not like-.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they got me in the right circle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, correct, correct. So you had a really tight circle. You had a good circle too on top of that as you started to grow. You know you get into middle school things like that Like how was middle school growth for you in wrestling? Because you sometimes like Liam was 95 going into sixth grade, then also he's 125. You know, how was that going from sixth to eighth grade? How was that growth period for you? Did you struggle like a lot of kids do, or were there just did you happen to grow kind of decently where it worked out all right and you just kind of- yeah, I mean I would say like I had constant growth throughout middle school.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:But like I didn't get quite big enough for my freshman year. Okay, and that's like. The one thing is like sitting back as a coach and like having wrestled like pretty much at like besides, like the Olympics, like the highest level you can wrestle at. I'm like conflicted on cutting weight because, like, there's like Because like, and it's weird because, like you, only you only get like one life right. So like this is like your only wrestling career and like your, you know your dad and mom are probably pretty excited and like want you to compete at like a level. Your club coach probably, like you know, like wants you to compete at your best. But like, and it's like, why like? Why why even take any attention from training for like results in middle school? Oh, yeah, for sure. Because like and like you're seeing a lot of guys not do that like, especially in Wisconsin. Like aren't, aren't cutting that weight and like all of those guys I think have done pretty well for themselves and I think it speaks volumes for a lot of the coaches around here too.
Speaker 2:I mean, they do have the reality of you know, obviously, like Josh and those guys that were that went to Missouri and wrestled in NCAA division one stuff like that they understand that aspect and I think- yeah, the bigger, the bigger picture aspect.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct. So like where you were, I think there we were still in that mode of you know, like I came from rubber suits and throwing up right, like that was. That was crazy. I mean, I wrestled in high school. I quit my junior year, but there's a reason why I quit. I just wasn't built for it. You know, I was not that dedicated to it and like keeping my weight, what it was, no. So I played soccer, but there's dedication to that and there we had Frank Jasper on.
Speaker 2:We talk a lot about nutrition here because we're not big into cutting. We do cut and we I gotta stop saying we, I gotta cut that out of my vernacular. But you know, liam cuts but it's like eight pounds because he's got that fat. You know, still the cut, he's not depleting energy when he's cutting. You know, whereas we saw a lot of kids, like you mentioned, in middle school, we're doing it because their dads cared about the results they were getting. They had to go win this because you know, you didn't win this last year. We got to, we got to win it this year. So we're going to cut 15 pounds at 12 years old. You know, like it's kind of crazy. You're going to have a hard boiled egg and a piece of celery for breakfast.
Speaker 3:Like, come on, man, like yeah, and to like I mean division one scholarships aren't good, Not at all.
Speaker 2:Not at all.
Speaker 3:And like and like reasonably to like and even like. I'll take this a step further and this is where like people apply. You know, don't like it but like. I mean even for your state tournament. Like, if your goal is to win state like great, but like, don't think that you winning a state tournament is getting you a D1 scholarship running in line up like that's just a joke.
Speaker 3:Like right and like and so like, what's what's kind of back ass words is like you know, like you you should be. You know, like, if you're going to cut weight like, cut weight at super 32, postseason nationals, cut weight at Fargo and then cut weight at UWW like world team trials. Those are four tournaments. That's still a lot of cutting weight, you know, like that's. That's like pretty much four to five months of watching professional weight cutting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then and then like, if you want to, you know maybe the state tournament, if you need to yeah as like you know like, but like your goal should be to work so hard and not focus on cutting weight. You know, like you separate yourself and don't matter Like he can do a tool, it don't matter what weight he went in high school, like he was teching everybody. You know what I?
Speaker 3:mean, and like he separate himself through training and like it's pretty plain and simple, like yeah, and I don't think he ever did cut much weight in high school. Not that I'm aware of, he just wrestled really hard and got really good at wrestling.
Speaker 2:A lot, yeah, and really really good.
Speaker 3:When you're really good at wrestling, man, I mean you really don't have to cut much weight and like the effort you put in the cutting weight. If you just put that into like just trying to get really good at wrestling, I mean I feel like you're going to like it way more, like for sure you're going to, you're like you're not going to burn out as easily and like there's just a lot of advantages to that, alongside of like actually trying to like get some man muscles for college.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 3:Like getting college and like, dude, everybody is just so strong.
Speaker 2:Well, and everybody there want to stay. Championship yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like you know you wrestle some guys on yours. I really don't understand this.
Speaker 2:Well, and the reason why I asked is because you know who it is. You know like it's not and you're going to go out and wrestle that guy Like you got it. It's not like you're going to work yourself over like snow, but it you have to go out saying I'm going to get this, I want to get this. You know, at least have goals when you're going out and instead of, like you said, you got to lose like a champion. You got to lose with dignity and going out and just flopping against the guy, even though he may look, make you look like you are, but you still got to wrestle your ass. I mean, I looked at the picture and some of the video that you had. I mean you're wrestling your ass off. You weren't not trying, you know. And it's the same thing with Lucas against Bob Asin. I mean Lucas got on the legs like twice.
Speaker 3:That's a lot, yeah, I mean trust me, got to his legs first. Right Instruct first.
Speaker 2:For a guy like the wrestling guy like that. I mean, I think Liam wrestled bow when they were little when we had Wisconsin red. Yet Liam wrestled bow got tacked by him, you know it was. It was hilarious because it was that whole Pennsylvania team was tacking everybody and our Wisconsin team rolls up to the mat and we're like, oh, we got this Pennsylvania team. This is not going to be fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, and Wisconsin's on the rise to like big time right now he was just 10 years ahead of everyone. Correct, I feel like that's, that's just the reality. Yep, correct, they're. They're no longer doing anything that we're not. And we also have pretty similar like training situations in Wisconsin with like in terms of like high level coaches and like good partners that around every weight in the room.
Speaker 2:Well, what's great, though, too, is that the guys that came from all the all this hard, you know, work and discovering things. They're bringing it back. You know guys like you that are coming back and working with clubs and and doing the extra things now that help these younger kids, the next generation, come up. You know, like before we didn't have division one college coaches around here. Yeah, no, you had some. I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't think growing up like I had any in here full time. No, no I mean and like, and that's not to say I didn't have good coaches, but, like you know, like Rob Lee's, like Scott Pila, whatever, like those guys.
Speaker 2:They had knowledge. They had the knowledge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like they had knowledge but like there's definitely some things that, like you got I mean even like a ton of stuff that I learned wrestling over five years, right yeah, Like I once have ever known that in high school, but now, like I can come back to youth practice, I can teach his kids that Correct. So it's like that knowledge transfer right now. And and to I mean, obviously you got to give Ben and Max a lot of credit.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I mean, obviously I've been on the payroll at Ascrint and like they're, they're taking care of a lot of those guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which you know, at the end of the day, like money does talk to a certain extent, like you got to love it, yeah, be willing to give time to it. And also like they've got to keep making your time worth it, and I think that they do a good job of that, which is why they have so many division one guys at like I mean, they have seven locations.
Speaker 2:Well, and here's the thing, though, too, is like each coach works perfectly for a different guy. Right, ben doesn't work perfectly for Liam, josh does. You know, max works great for Liam, and there's there's different philosophies and like we just didn't have that blend before. You know, we didn't have that mix of coaches that have that knowledge. Now that they're back and they're giving back, I mean, like you said, wisconsin's jumped exponentially from where they were, you know, maybe not compared to another state or whatever, but from where we were we are definitely going up.
Speaker 2:You know we got the Inns and Clares and the Marysoulas, and you know the, you know tools that have come through here. I mean, you can start naming at least five to 10 to 12 guys that have come through here that are now either all American all the way or have won a championship. So, whether it's division three, naia, division two, division one, there are guys that are making noise. We got Noah Mulvaney just went to Bucknell. He just wrestled the other night, can't remember what his result was, but I mean, these, these guys are proving themselves now, and especially the coaches, like you said, ben and Max They've got some kind of key because you know they've, they're putting it together and they're doing a really good job with it.
Speaker 3:The key is is that they're getting enough kids to believe in it to actually give in five, six days a week.
Speaker 2:Well, numbers don't lie, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, numbers don't lie. I mean, if you've got a hundred kids that are putting in 50 days a week, or if you have 10, you know I like the, I like the hundred number. It gives you a lot more opportunities for guys to get good correct. And then if one guy doesn't show up at practice, what doesn't matter, there's 99 others.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so I think, you know, that's the big thing, like when I was growing up, like the circle of guys that were putting in that time was so much smaller than what it is right now and you know I mean part of that is like location, you know totally like going back to you know what I said of, like, the club situation when I was growing up is like I was traveling to you know in high school.
Speaker 3:It's traveling to Milwaukee. I was going to Wisconsin, rgc, mm-hmm, like now all of a sudden, I mean, you look at, I don't know, I mean, in this location we have, if, kangaroo of X factor. Mm-hmm. Awa, if aviators, yep, I mean, and box. So that's our nizar, yep, and I'm still like, and those are all within an hour radius of of the, of like where where I live, like where Liam lives. Yep totally like that's. I mean, just you have just such an access to clubs right now, which is crazy.
Speaker 3:I mean it's huge for Wisconsin. Rest, correct. You know, and like talking about this as like I coach in Michigan and like there's like no clubs over there, like if you really good at wrestling, you have to transfer, pretty much like you'll all yeah. You go to lol or like the Troy Catholic Central. Yeah, those guys pretty much just like all do like their own internal work.
Speaker 3:No kidding the shamrock club out of DCC. Yeah, yeah, low club. Obviously, like Michigan grappler is a club that I coach, but like we have, we have people travel three hours to get there because like that's the only option and we're still like our club we buy all day a driving yeah like we, like we. We average less than like, just like, even like Green Bay's eat it like wow, awa does on a daily basis. Holy cow.
Speaker 3:The club wrestling just isn't, isn't as big and like where it is big is like just like a, like shamrock.
Speaker 2:You eat like high school stuff All right, pete Mike cross, by the way, let's that. Couldn't believe that when I saw that.
Speaker 3:But I didn't know him personally, but like a lot of people that, uh, you know, are in Michigan, like that dude, so I started what is now the Sada City Slam, saw us nationals.
Speaker 2:It was something. It was something that Allegedly Kleinie was talking about a while back. But I got together with the Fray Nialla and got him together and things like that. We put that together and that the first year we did it I had my crows come and man talk about energy like holy cow, like I don't know. I know I have a and I have plenty of energy to go around, but I can tell you at eight o'clock when I sit down I pass out right. I don't think that guy ever slept like I'm pretty sure the entire time he was up at that tournament. We had it. He said he was. I was up for a while. I was up till like midnight, one o'clock and morning kind of doing this and he goes. I knew I had to be up at like six, seven so I can get type six hours of sleep in. I was like, holy Chris, you're crazy, you are nuts, but I can't believe that. It's that desolate out there for wrestling. I thought there'd have been the pocket clubs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it would be Michigan's pretty good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, especially lower Michigan, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like they're they're pretty good to where, like you think that they'd have us like all this, like structured stuff. Yeah, that's him, but like yeah they really don't well like Simmons Academy, I mean, yeah, they're a little bit further, but like I mean it's pretty much like that's saw right.
Speaker 2:Guys right, yeah.
Speaker 3:Simmons, actually a lot like across, like super high B. Yeah just, I mean he can get two hours sleep, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:He's like oh yeah, because we've been up to the UP now, and my wife's from Niagara, but we've gone to the Iron Mountain tournament up there. We've gone to a couple of smaller ones when he was little right, and those guys don't like clubs up there because it takes away from the school practice. You know, guys, whatever they got going on.
Speaker 3:That's the, that's the old school mentality right. That's the way it used to be was like If you're representing another club at a youth level, yeah, then you're on hometown, your trader sort of deal. That was like a really like that was a true thing, like when I was a kid is like whether or not, like you signed up for a tournament under like your hometown name, like your club and what single it you wore at the tournament.
Speaker 3:Yeah right and like that was like a huge thing. You know, I think I think the UP just lives like 10 years behind everyone else, totally. Yeah, so it doesn't surprise me that you know if they, if they still feel that way.
Speaker 3:But I know like, even around here, like it used to be like that. Yeah, you know like, even like, look at, look like, look at all good looks from her cascos. They used to not go to clubs, really like they were literally losing their competitive advantage and like none of those kids were going to clubs. Yeah they'd all register under LC, like where those single it's wow yeah and like I'm not yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I remember best like that's.
Speaker 3:That's some good loyalty. But like I'm just saying like that was like the old school mentality right. And then people like over time are like okay, like this is ridiculous, like we, we can't get as good as these guys that are going to clubs Tolman side of the year like train in with like people from all over, like yeah, and then I think it kind of People had to accept that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, yeah, dude, I mean, well, it's just like a. I heard when when was it beast cage closed up right and a WA bought it. Like there I mean doing the wrong. There's some people don't want to give Ben asked money. You know they're like where are we gonna go? We're there's no other club around here. You know, like, you're gonna drive another two hours somewhere or something like that to go. They saw a crass. You know crass is over there too. But um, they're just you know the loyalty thing, where we really like going here we were. You know people love Dennis Hall. They love going to practice with him.
Speaker 2:He was a unique dude. You know there were some people that weren't too happy wouldn't happen. It's like, hey, man, you gotta get better somehow. Right, like I mean, just just bite the bullet. You know, for a while I wasn't a Ben Askren fan either. We wound up sending Liam to ask him because numbers don't lie, right, like I think Ben can attest to the times I've probably been after him on Twitter, kind of giving him crap about something. But the numbers don't lie, that's proven. Like watching the guys that Liam was wrestling and seeing where they were at at his club. I think it was at aviators at the time. Then he's wrestling it. You can see the difference, you know. You can see the old-school wrestling technique versus the new stuff that's coming around and it's gonna be here to stay, you know. So it's. It's good to see. A lot of the coaches, though, now are starting to work together. The club coaches are all starting to click.
Speaker 3:They know what they talk to each other like that too. That's awesome. Yeah, yes, very tight in Wisconsin, super tight, yep.
Speaker 2:That's good thing. It works it works. So what? Back to you now, when you were kind of coming, you got done with middle school and kind of coming up in eighth grade You're gonna be going in high school. Obviously we know Denmark wasn't a powerhouse by any means, but like what were you? What were you kind of striving towards once you're getting in a high school? Like what wait Did? Were you 106? I was 106.
Speaker 3:I was even like I wrestled, like like when I'd wrestle national and stuff, yeah Pete and like hundred, like a hunt yeah so I wasn't like 94 small or anything right. But yeah, no, I actually I started out high school pretty, pretty hot. I was like 28, no, and I was nice, starting to get cocky shit. You know, dude, like have fun with it, like yeah, I was like a lot of people fucking wrote me off, dude.
Speaker 3:Like a lot of people were like, yeah, look well in, because this is like I mean, dude, you gotta think like 10 years ago is like a lot. Like I came into high school at 10 years, yeah, like how far Wisconsin wrestling has come, like it used to be like the old mentality. So like people would be like, yeah, we'll see how good you do when we get in high school and shit. And like high school is tough and like and whatnot, and I start off 28. No, everybody, dude. And you know, yeah, and like I think I take like my first loss.
Speaker 3:I like couple losses here and there and like I just you're like what, yeah, dude, like I mean, yeah, it's just, I took a couple losses and then you know like ended up it was really weird. So like I mean our sectionals pretty tough. So like, yeah, sorry, my original. So I had like Michael Bannock who's like a senior at 106.
Speaker 3:Yeah just won Iowa posties nationals at like 106 and I'd probably Yankee, oh, who was like, oh yeah, older, a little bit more mature at the weight. So I was like, fuck this, I'm going 106, founder 113 and dude, yeah, I like. I like lost the close final to the guy that ended up taking fifth. He's a still in Mickey, yeah, you ever heard of him? Yeah, so I lost to him at overtime and I had to do like a frickin wrestle back and I just flopped super hard.
Speaker 3:It did oh yeah, dude, oh yeah, shit show. And yeah, like, literally like, and me and my coach, like I, literally, I literally just helped out of practice like coach Uh, tim Kapanos at yeah, we're like homeboys now. Yeah, at this time, like you know, and like I had really hadn't gotten like the best training that year, it just yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, there wasn't really anyone for me to really work out with and a lot of things, just like you know, I'd question kind of whether or not it would work out. And the thing about like doing the easy thing and stuff which was like transferring obviously like, or like two rivers or Luxembourg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what you're saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I already like I already, like knew all these guys that goes already in kangaroo's room more you know, just as much as the Denmark one. Like I already I'd grown up with all the LC kids doing like the Bob Bersow camp and like you know, like all this stuff, and then like two rivers, like Paul Bianchi is like my best friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like as like yeah, I'm not like this is awesome, yeah, and yeah, like all the Bianches and stuff and so like there's a couple thoughts and then. But you know, like the main thing was like I just have like lineage with like my grandpa, so like, yeah, my parents really weren't for it and I was kind of thinking like you know, like being supportive is like.
Speaker 3:That was like the double-edged stored moment, like they really wanted me to win for Denmark and I'm like yeah, but like you guys aren't seeing bigger picture, like if I want to be the best, if I want to be division one level, like I gotta leave. Mm-hmm and I was like I don't care about state titles and I'm just being me, like just Constantly traveling to every practice. Okay, Okay and so, like I mean, I end up getting it done. I mean, you know three state titles three times they champ, man, I mean you know getting getting my D1 offers and stuff.
Speaker 3:So I mean I end up working out, but I mean definitely was a gamble to stay because at that point, like I Wasn't practicing like anyone, that was like You're like near like that. Like I didn't have like anyone within like 20 pounds. That was like yeah.
Speaker 3:No, any any sort of like, even for like just drilling. Like drilling with a good partner Well, I give you good feels is like you know, then go learn something from somewhere else. But like if I don't have the person that gives me a decent reaction. Yep and like too yeah, if my high school practice out later scoring, cuz I get every five seconds.
Speaker 2:So you hear that's what I would do. You hear a lot from coaches that talk about we're gonna talk more about your high school stuff. But you hear a lot from coaches that you know, especially now, like partners don't matter, partners don't matter, the partners do matter. You know, like I mean, like you said, you can go somewhere and learn something. That's fine. You know you can take something away from a guy that may not be as good or maybe is lighter or whatever it is. You can Work on something with that. But like to get a genuine like Match, feel you got to have a partner that's willing to go to that level with you. And not every guy is right. I mean you almost have to become like best friends with the guy. Like it's like this is my practice partner, like all.
Speaker 3:Like I guarantee, like anyone, that's really good. Like they got their guide every level. Yeah, like right. Yeah, like right now. Like Liam and Lucas, like what they got.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm yeah that's a yeah, I'm like the same. Like I had the same sort of deal when I was growing up. Yeah, like everyone I know, that got good. Like they have like another practice partner that like complimented them. Yeah, right, totally, you know. I like the X Factor Club, mm-hmm. Like, do we Krieger? Yep, yeah, like they're back-to-back at 138 145. Yeah, me and Paul were back-to-back. 106, 113.
Speaker 3:Yes, you know so like that was like you know, like it was all of us that were practice partners. Yeah, right next to each other just beating the piss out each other.
Speaker 2:It's awesome.
Speaker 3:So like you, yeah, you like, you need those partners and like you gotta you think about it Like when do people really get good? And that's division one. What happens to vision one? Well, you have the best partners, right. You have a college coach that was probably an all-american or national champ that just beats the brings out of you for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:So when you you talk, it was the first year that you went through high school, that you didn't win state right, your freshman year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't, didn't qualify, didn't qualify so.
Speaker 2:So there's that. So now you have that in your head, right. That's got to work on you a little bit. As you go into your sophomore You're trying to figure out what you're trying to accomplish and how you're trying to accomplish. Your a young kid, so as you're kind of going through your sophomore year, you're into me. The way that I kind of balances is that the regular season conference, duals, things like that. That's all practice, to state right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it matters, don't get me wrong to that, especially to the coaches. I mean, they want to win a duel, it's so it matters. But at the same point though, too, as a person, as an individual, as you're going through that season, you're like all right this, you know I won this match, but I gotta work on this, because, you know this, I didn't do very good. Were you finding yourself, I guess for lack of a better term just growing more Wrestling intelligence as you were getting into your sophomore year? Did you find yourself kind of prepping yourself a little differently? What were you? What did you try to change from sophomore year or freshman year? Sophomore year?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I would say like the biggest thing was like a trying to change my strength. Okay, like serious strength training, yeah, and like consistent and, like you know, like the right diet, like eating a lot of protein and stuff, and like really trying to like put on muscle, yeah, so I was like the big. That was like the big thing. And then like my, my emotional maturity, like okay, yeah, like you know, I've had my moments or I was a crier, like fit thrower and stuff and like youth and stuff and like I wasn't necessarily like that in high school, but like what I was, what, like you know, like you just like lose it in a match, like body language, you know, yeah, like body language and like your ability to just like stay calm and just stay wrestling.
Speaker 3:Yeah when you're getting stressed and the guy's pushing you like I would say, like that was one of my biggest things. It's just like jump level, level-headedness through the whole match and just trying to wrestle and like a key no. I just like constantly worried about like what the call is, or like if I scored, or like I'm getting frustrated. It's like that hinders so many kids yeah, so many kids just get hindered on like Just trying to overlook wrestling is like this big pressure thing compared to just like having fun rolling around to beaten.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and I can see it especially coming from a kid side, because you got your parents that are there. Your parents are pushing, you know, your parents are, you know, maybe not pushing you like, oh, come on, you gotta, you gotta win this, but they're taking you there. You're like, oh man, they brought me all the way here, cuz, I mean, liam was one of those kids that he's like, you drove me all the way here and I only did this and like, yeah. So then, as a parent, I did like, as an athlete too, I kind of understood, but I had to step back and be like, yeah, but you did this pretty damn good compared to last time.
Speaker 2:You know, you may not have won and sometimes if he wasn't winning, it was because of his body language and his attitude on the mat, because he was down on himself for you. Oh, I beat that kid last time. This time I lost to. It's like, you know, okay, yeah, it's gonna take a second. So, as you kind of went through that growth, as you got into your junior, because he went state yourself, well, how'd that feel, number one, coming from your freshman year, not even making it to state your set your sophomore year you win it, so let's talk about that for a second though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean what so was wild. And two is like I like couldn't get over excited because, like I wrestled, sure so the number, the number two guy in the state, like I teched in the sectional finals.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:So like and this is the kid, like he's for sure gonna be the kid that I wrestled the finals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just tack them.
Speaker 3:So for like a week I'm sitting there and, like you know, I everyone's like trying to get like hype and, like you know, and like the biggest thing was like just staying composed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I knew, I knew I could win it. But like just sitting there for a week, yeah, having to like conceptualize that and go to practice every day and like and to like. My biggest thing is like around that time I just like kept trying to over train like I would I get done with practice and I'd like go like run like six miles On the treadmill. It was like super, like I'm talking like the week of state, like even though, like, my weight was good.
Speaker 3:I would like go like run six miles on the treadmill, like looking back, like that stuff was like stupid. Yeah, it's like that was like my biggest thing is like just like not being, you know, an idiot and like trying to like relax and just like yeah, did you deal with any injuries at all? Um, yeah, I mean definitely here in there. Did you, so my senior year, though, like nothing. Season ending, though, but no, no, I mean I've, I've like torn a rotator cuff.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, yeah, that's surgery on it, yeah, but like I needed to take a couple months off. But no, the big thing is my senior year. Actually, I had locked a kid and when he landed I like pretty much like Cracked the bone, like right here, oh, so I couldn't open my eye further. My senior year state finals day. Really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't open my eye for like seven days after the finals is actually like I didn't enjoy like that whole day. I was just like sitting there and like I couldn't open my eye and it was just like tearing but I couldn't like do anything. Oh, no, man yeah dude after this, off the show you a picture. Yeah it's is insane. Oh and so like that, that whole experience is like really cruddy. And then like to like they're like well, like you can't do anything, you can't sneeze.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like you can't lift. Yeah, cuz like you can't like heavy breathe. Oh, if you sneeze like you might like, yeah, you might like, mess it up.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like.
Speaker 3:I'd like hold my sneezes and like dab it and stuff. It was horrible.
Speaker 2:You know what they tell you? Like you're by my, pop out or something like that's crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean sneeze your eyeball out of your head.
Speaker 3:Yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah oh my god, that's crazy.
Speaker 3:My senior year I actually had to battle through the locks as there was them, like the rotator, cuff the eye and then, and to, I got mono that year. Oh, but like, and I was like an idiot, do like at this point where, like I just kept trying to over train it, like I never Let me know for us, and so like it took me a really long time to recover from mono because, like I would just work out every day they tell me to chill, like I wouldn't go to school. Yeah, just want me to work off like four hours. So, like you know, and it's like that wasn't good either you're built different man.
Speaker 2:I mean, any other kid probably would have gone home and not done anything, you know? Yeah, you built a little different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean like how, if you're just sitting at home, like what are you gonna do? And like you know it's like, and to like you know, like I I said I wrestled that about on the bay that you're, yeah, kind of like right one, like the symptom started showing and like a lot like I lost to a kid that I tacked. Like I pinned this Kid 40 seconds and I tech pinned them and I lost this kid. Senior year caused me to not go undefeated.
Speaker 2:Did you see because I never experienced mono when you were going into those matches that that's particular day? Did you feel like it was just a cold or just had maybe like you felt, well, I'll get the tournament done today and I'm like a 50 year old smoker.
Speaker 3:Whoa, that was like the only thing. I was like, I'll just get like really heavy-winded, yeah, and like my chest would get like really tight really tight, okay, okay. Yeah, I mean it, but it's like that was the thing is like I was coming off that loss my monosodic. It's just way too antsy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, sure, yeah that makes sense, but man so so as, as you're kind of going through your your junior year, were you getting attention?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. So, I had, I I the third place at Fargo, my soft one. Okay, okay and then I took second at World Team trials, also that year Nice. That definitely helped.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, yeah the tension early. Okay, okay. Who was? Who was calling you? Who was talking to you?
Speaker 3:I mean honestly, it was.
Speaker 2:Tom, was Tom talking already.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Tom had been talking to me. I visited there twice already my junior year.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, and then you know a lot of big 10 schools, but like I wasn't one of those kids that necessarily wanted that attention, I just wanted to wrestle, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so, like I think and actually like to like I would recommend that for everyone is, like you know, if you're the man you know, maybe go to school that like the men are gonna go to, but, like you know, like there's nothing wrong with going to a smaller school because, like even the smallest schools, like they're still gonna have Resources you've never had before.
Speaker 2:Well, look at Grandview.
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean that's a. That's a perfect example of a school. It's just been dominant right and they're D3, right.
Speaker 3:And AI and AI.
Speaker 2:You see the kids. There's proof that there are plenty of schools that are out there that have what you're looking for someone. But we've been. And I don't know how your parents dealt with it with you, because I mean, it was, I didn't get recruited for soccer because my, my grades are horrible, but I was playing national team so I didn't care, right, I didn't. That was the pinnacle to me anyways.
Speaker 2:But with, with, with grades and things like we tell Liam, hey, you got to like the school, you got to be able to go to school there to get a degree in something that you want. You know that's cuz, wrestling ends. You know it does end and you have to have something that you can fall back on. So did you have that more in your frame of mind when you're looking at schools or what? Were you kind of just like okay, I don't want to wrestle here, I don't want to wrestle here, but I'll wrestle here, I like the coaches. Or you know what did you think about it all? It's a lot for a kid to go through, yeah that's 16, 17 years old.
Speaker 2:I mean, you're thinking about the next four or five years of your life. So what were you kind of going through? When you're thinking about that, you're junior, you're kind of starting it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I definitely I wanted to be taken care of financially. That was big to me, yep, and then I forgot to mention now and I mean I'm you know, I grew up caring about my grades, so like. I was close to being on the table if I would have focused on my scores for a bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, just being an athlete, yeah, they can pull a lot of strings for you. Like I'm not talking. Like I was like 4.2 GPA but I was like 3a yeah, they can, they can pull a lot of strings for you. So, like that was, yeah, kind of in question too. But then it was like I kind of wanted to go to a school that was like top 25. Yeah, not for sure. I didn't want to go to a school where it's gonna be top 10 and like you know, like there's gonna be x, y and z guy, and like I actually I did want to go to Wisconsin.
Speaker 3:Okay, um, not the Barry Davis, brian. Uh, you know, brian watching this.
Speaker 2:So never know, dude.
Speaker 3:I was, and this is what's wild. So my junior year I take it unofficial to Wisconsin. Okay they Don't put in writing. Always get offers and writing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, like and like Wisconsin is my, my number one school and like they kind of knew that I really wanted to go to Wisconsin too, yeah, and they're like, yeah, like we should be able to get you like a 50% number, and I'm like you know what, honestly, it's not gonna pay for all my school, but I'm fine with that amount of debt, like it probably would have been like 40 or 50.
Speaker 3:Sure, sure for the opportunity and yeah, cuz I really want to be a badger. And then, yeah, all of a sudden, the next year comes, I take second of world team trials again, I all American at Fargo, like I do all these different things, like should improve my stock and like getting recruited by like a ton more Schools at this point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then Wisconsin comes back and they're like oh, 10%, like Union State guy, and then, and then they had nobody, they had the. I mean they had no. Like the whole time that I was in college they didn't have a 25 pounder. Jimenez got hurt. Yeah they pretty much had like nobody, and then all of a sudden they had a pull. Eric Eric Burnett right. So there was like a three-year window where like they could have had me for like I mean, I'll try one went there for like 30%, but 10% was just like.
Speaker 3:A slap of the face and I was like no.
Speaker 2:So there's, there's been stories that I've heard already and I'm not gonna say what school, but like, kids have gotten contacted by a coach and the coach tells them they're like hey, you're a guy, you're a guy, I mean, we want you, we want you at this spot, we want you at this spot. They're like and you will be a preferred walk-on. Like what? Yeah, what kind of guy am I to you? Like the guy that takes out the trash? Like what is that? But you know it's a game about it though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 9.9 scholarships.
Speaker 2:Yeah business.
Speaker 3:that coach. It is like he's got to be, like, okay, there's got to be, like you got to offer preferred walk-ons, yeah, lots to guys that aren't quite Necessarily gonna be the starter. They might, they might, end up slotting in there, but like no they just take care of school. They're not gonna cause you issues. Right, right, like you got, you have to find those guys.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm and then there's got to be guys you offer like 30 to 40 percent. You're like this guy's probably gonna start for me a couple years. Yeah, maybe not all four, but like sure, that's why they're gonna get that. And then you just have to like I mean, there's obviously like blue chip recruits, and then there's yep, blue chip recruits that are dumbasses.
Speaker 3:Full ride and like if they, fucking the boss, you just try to get them to quit I've seen this like firsthand. Like they will literally try everything that they can do to make you quit. If you like don't perform, like, if you're that level guy like you're, they were gonna try to force you to quit.
Speaker 2:That's a business. It is a business because those coaches are getting paid, the schools are trying to make money as well and the athletic programs have to bring in a dollar amount. You know they got to be able to do something. So, yeah, you got to be careful where you're putting those scholarships at. But so, as you're getting to your junior year Not to getting to, but getting through your junior year, getting into your senior year had you decided by that point where you wanted to go by your senior year? Because you didn't, you've been taking trips and yeah, I have contacts and everything like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I took, I took my visits and stuff. I went out to like Wyoming, I went to Northern Illinois yeah, I went to. I actually I like when they told me that and they were like I was planning on taking a visit that weekend.
Speaker 3:Yeah and they had. They had like called me that week and like told me that and I canceled that visit. Felt so fucking good, oh, it felt. I mean I was pissed, obviously when they told me that yeah, yeah, like we're still really excited to like get an in-state guy, and I was like I'm not busy.
Speaker 3:No, I'm not Dude, it felt so good at that time. I was like a kid, like a little shyster, I was just like and like obviously I was pissed, but like just something about hanging up the phone and that having the upper hand and Speed like and I'd already taken a couple unofficial visits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was just like yeah, but yeah, hey, you know. At least you knew what you wanted to do, though, like you had an understanding of what was going on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I wasn't, I didn't want to go right a lot of doubt. Yeah right you know not that it's a good education, that people don't pay a full price for it.
Speaker 2:Right, right I just that wasn't.
Speaker 2:That wasn't my but you guys have an advantage. You have a, you have a skill set that people want, you know, and it pays money. So I mean, why wouldn't you want to get the most out of it? So senior year, you're kind of deciding already where you're gonna go. Right, you could, maybe you had like one or two in the basket, but when, where? Where your thoughts?
Speaker 2:Because I'm noticing this a little bit more now, especially at like the Super 32's, were you focusing on and you like competing? So I think I know the answer, but I'm gonna ask anyways were you focusing more on Just getting ready for that next level or were you still focusing on some of the bigger tournaments so you had to go through yet? Because some guys don't go to far go once they've decided and they've committed, like they don't. Like if they know where they're gonna go, they're like I don't really need to go there. Some of the coaches want them to, don't get me wrong like especially their college coaches. But were you, were you more focused on what was gonna be coming up, or were you still focusing on what was in front of you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I was still competing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I competed.
Speaker 3:I mean, super 32 is a senior and after the season I went to like I went to actually wrestle the college, like the college juniors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you know, you know you juniors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to Vegas, wrestled that okay. And then I also I doubled entered into the high school tournament as well. Okay, it was like Central Regionals was down in Vegas that weekend. Yeah, and then, five days later, I went, flew out to New York and did like the journeyman. Oh yeah, I was competing man. Yeah, I was competing, but like Shit we're doing. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, man, I mean, I was, you know, I you know, obviously excited for college and stuff.
Speaker 3:But yeah really told me I was gonna redshirt anyways. So it was like I want to fucking, I want to win these things right, yeah, it's like. I'm, and you know what I regret is I mean do far goes a dope tournament, yeah, go there. That your senior year, yeah you know and like because I've been training and like, yeah, you know, like you start hanging around like the group of guys and like you're kind of focusing on folk style and stuff, but like if you're red-shirting- yeah why not tell the line and try to win that far, like I wish I would have like?
Speaker 2:well, and I know of a kid that that didn't go this year to Super 32 Is, I mean, it's a senior year. He didn't go this year because a coach Advised he's like you don't need to go into this and like, I think the college coaches that they're going to that, they're going to, or like, why aren't you going to that? Yeah, like why aren't you going to this? Yeah, because the mentality of, well, I mean, you're already committed, you're doing this kind of thing, you're gonna be going to this tournament anyways too, you don't need to go. That I mean, there are other tournaments out there. We go to journeyman classic as well, the Super 32 is.
Speaker 2:But again, those are like those are the tournaments, right. Those are the ones that people place their sights on when it comes to trying to get some kind of attention off of the side besides their High school season, right? So I kind of curious and I ask a lot of guys that question is just kind of like you know, are you, once you get that commitment here, you know where you're gonna go? Do you kind of ease off, you let off the gas pedal and you focus more on what's gonna be coming up? But, like I said, I kind of knew what the answer is gonna be coming from you. You were still going. You're a gamer, so you were. You're trying to give it. Yeah, did you?
Speaker 3:like it's like to like why I wouldn't want that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:I mean like, like you know, holding a Super 32 bow, like yeah, bad ass, yeah, we're even placing. Yeah, placing like getting on the Fargo podium like mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Those are accomplishments that nobody can ever take away from you and I know someone probably listening like, oh, just placing. Well, you know, sometimes it's hard for a kid, just fucking place of that. I mean, it's like it's hard, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Liam took third is. I think he was a middle school, I think it was the 11 you division actually, that he took third. But then, like his first this freshman year, he would own two man, like it's a whole different ball game like 90 97% of people that place at Fargo and freestyle go to Visional on yeah, yeah, well, you know Liam was in the 3%'s, probably heavy weights going to play football instead right.
Speaker 3:So you know right.
Speaker 2:That's a fact, like that I know that might.
Speaker 3:The guy that owns my club is a stat on pretty much anything wrestling. Yeah, it's true, that's on everything. I believe it.
Speaker 2:It's, it's insane, totally believe it. So you see, you got. You found out where you're gonna go. How exciting was that when you kind of figured out. I mean, were you making trips galore after that to kind of go practice with those guys? Or how are you dealing with that?
Speaker 3:Not really in a sense. It was just kind of like once I I mean I was glad to get that part over. Yeah, okay, the whole commitment thing knowing yeah, well, I'm just like taking away from my training. Yeah, like one weekend I went up to Wyoming. Like another weekend, like at Cornell, like another weekend. Wow like at Northern Illinois and like it's in like another weekend at Central.
Speaker 3:Yeah just a lot of like. A lot of weekends were like I'm not really training. I'm like you go on these visits and like you think you're like, oh, like I'm gonna get on a wrestling mat. Like those coaches can't, can't wrestle with you. Nope, I mean it's against the rules and then correct those college kids already busting. You can't practice and they're practice like that's also.
Speaker 2:Is it Wow?
Speaker 3:Unless it's, unless it's outside of season.
Speaker 2:Okay, sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's like it can't be like an official workout. So like a lot of these times, like you just go there and you just fuck off for the weekend.
Speaker 2:You can't even know what that's it. Yeah, you're pretty much hanging out.
Speaker 3:So like I was glad to get that over and then just kind of have it figured out and be able to focus on the senior year. Right on um and what socks is like. In an ideal world, I think, everyone just gets recruited after their senior year so, and they never have to worry about until they're kind of done with you know. Yeah like the bulk of their high school career, but like that's never gonna happen. So we're there, gonna be earlier and earlier, which would stay.
Speaker 3:Championship was the most memorable and special to you ooh, um, probably my junior year, just because, uh, my junior year, the period, the first period, went zero, zero and I hit like a nasty switch. I know down to zero and I put it on yeah, anger came in. That one felt the best and like to like yeah, that kid wanted to beat me really bad obviously Gave you something. Like is like mom gate, like you know like his mom was like kind of, you know like yelling on the side and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, just like and like seeing that kid in like a lot of practice rooms and like the mom would always come to me and be like, oh, my son is like gonna be at your way and he's gonna give you a loan for your money. I'm like we'll fucking see. I will see that one felt the best.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't say you bring it sister. Yeah, that's awesome, that's cool. I mean, obviously it's not like you're like yelling at her or nothing, but that's cool that you kind of took it to that level like I won't see what happens, man, bring, bring your kid to the Termite and we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3:I mean, he actually made the finals to yeah, I didn't even know if you'd make the final. I mean he made the finals and you're like ironing.
Speaker 2:You know, let's do this All right, let's do this, and yeah. So so you got, once you got through high school and as you were kind of Getting into college, what was the hardest part? What was the hardest transition? Education and wrestling wise. What was the hardest transition for you?
Speaker 3:Um, and you know, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna spit a little bit of insight on how many people see as good so late in it, but like that's cool.
Speaker 2:Um, they're gonna hear it later. Yeah, hopefully.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like the bait. The hardest part for me Was just like slowing down the pace. Okay, so like, like. I wrestled 19 matches my whole red shirt year.
Speaker 2:Okay right.
Speaker 3:So it was just a lot of training Yep, and like I wasn't the guy, like Drew Hildebrandt took fourth at NCA's. I actually transferred to Penn State. So like, that's the guy that I was behind, so like, okay going from wrestling Like 150 matches a season to going down to 19. It was just a very slow pace for me. I think it's very hard to go from that to that. The training wasn't necessarily like a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But yeah, like the training is just so hard and just so focused on training. Yeah and not just competing like every other weekend and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, okay. So but the training was I mean, obviously, if you're a gamer, you want to go out and compete, you want to get into a tournament and put that training to work but that the training was just kind of it felt like it was monotonous. It was kind of just like okay, when am I gonna get to the? Is that kind of how it felt, or was it really just frustrated with it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean in an ideal world.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I would just have been good enough to start as a red shirt, Okay like never never red shirt go straight through it. Yeah, russell, 40 matches every year.
Speaker 2:Yeah the deal and like that would be my ideal world and like that's a big thing too.
Speaker 3:It's like and to like. You never know, like when you're gonna be healthy, like what's gonna happen the future, like, yeah, like racing. Clark is a prime example, like he just One both of his rest loss at Purdue Tech.
Speaker 2:But the kids.
Speaker 3:It's like to just get that kid out there like he's a killer. He's a killer dude and like, like you get that, like he's gonna take his losses, like he's gonna, he's gonna. Of course, yeah, big 10. Yeah, but like you get that fire coming out of a high school kid. Yeah like there is a different type of fire. That's like. It's like not relaxed, it's not patient.
Speaker 2:It's like oh go go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like point to prove. And like you just put them in the college room and let them get on the lineup, yeah, like you know, if they're the guy like I mean, look at, like Levi Haines, like yeah all, like some of those guys like Especially I mean like guys like Mark Hall, like yeah, wind them up and let him go. Yeah, like took, took like one little lump and like his first duel and Mark Hall and his like debut.
Speaker 3:But then you know, and see a champ, true freshman all the way a lot of guys are doing that and it's just like like Yanni did it, mm-hmm. Yeah, actually, like he was on a podcast he talked about this too is like you. Sometimes you just like think that you're better than you are and like that helps.
Speaker 3:Sure, you know and like part of like that's a man down and like just wrestling in the room for your and stuff, like you slow things down for yourself and you get outside of like the, just like the heist of mentality. It's like kill, kill, compete, yeah, and you cut, become more relaxed and become like buddy, buddy with everyone in the room. Yeah, it takes away like the killer mentality, yeah, and I mean there's just something about that. I mean you, you don't want anyone that's like like a lunatic. Yeah you don't want that, so.
Speaker 2:So kids learn to tame that, learn to tame that down a little bit. So as you got into college, where were some of the Struggles that were? That were, I guess, on the mat and de redshirted? So you went through some of the opens but then they released your red shirt right when there are some of the hardships that you had, kind of competing like we're what were some of the toughest roads that you had to go down in your first year wrestling in college.
Speaker 3:Dude, it was neutral bro.
Speaker 2:Was there really I?
Speaker 3:was like everybody in college is usually top and bottom.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like pretty good top and bottom, okay, okay. Didn't struggle there at all, but I trained way too much Greco in high school. You're that Pila crew and like Dude and like the big thing is to is like especially in college, kids are constantly looking to get to your legs yeah as you get to that level, like the mistakes become less and less. Yeah, and like I'm not saying like you can't become a scrambling guru.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I wasn't in the program. Like I I decent scrambling from high school, but I wasn't in a college program or like that was gonna be huge.
Speaker 3:Yeah and like I think for like I wasn't, like I it's not like I was taking it to the guy like all time, like looking to get the shot within like the first 10 seconds, yeah, and like you have a lot of kids that do that. It's like a lot of kids like are in your, are in on your legs in five seconds, yeah, even if they're not the best finisher. But like that part was weird for me. It's like I had to get a lot better on neutral Sure, college Sure, a ton better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just do under hooks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know when to you just like you just like everything has to go right, like fast, explosive, like driving through and like that's the biggest thing, is like in high school, you can get away with a lot of stuff. Yeah, I just having really good intensity. Yeah and stuff. But like in college, like you have to have purpose with all your mood, so like in 10, correctly. Yeah, a lot of like it's. It's got to be intent, based on what the opponent gives you.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:So that part of just like not trying to be like you know, Like be a junkyard dog and like try to work through everything for sure. Slowing everything down and like trying to get that maturity. But yeah, by my later years I got pretty good to move. So I was. That was big.
Speaker 2:I think we hear a lot of, I mean, we hear a lot of the you can get into a takedown, but you can. You finish it, especially in college, right, that's the hard part. You can get on legs all day long but you can score points from it, and so that's where, when you start talking about intent, that's a lot of things that I've been pushing with Liam Mainly, I would say, since last year, just because the guys he was wrestling were, you know, he was able to Win, you know, to a certain extent, but it wasn't always. It didn't look like it was always like a hard win, you know, like it wasn't, the moves weren't intentful, just because he was such a big kid Coming into that weight. And then a lot of these guys were, you know, third, fourth year or whatever. But some of the guys that he's wrestling were still, you know, going to the club with them and he was rolling through him, but the moves still weren't. They were a move. You got into the legs, you shot, but how much intent was behind that move.
Speaker 2:You know you kind of watch the power that someone puts into a move, watching super 32, for example, a lot of kids down there that are wrestling in there. I mean, they're there to win, just like every other kid is. But you can tell the difference between the kids that are that are Going to go to college and wrestle. You can tell the kids that want to go to college and wrestle, the ones that are going to go to college and wrestle, those are the ones that were putting like they great, as soon as they had a leg you weren't getting out. You know, especially high school wise. Now, like with college, you can tell the guys they're all doing that, they're all putting, they're all getting your leg just as hard as the next guy it's. Can you finish and how much? How much like like umph, are you putting behind it? Because that seems to be the biggest kind of kind of push. Besides, the technique behind it is that you got to have the strength. Like you said, you get in the college room because it's strong explosion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, exactly. You've got to put all of that together like speed, strength, explosion. They've all got to come together as one with with the technique that, like, is open. Yeah that's available for you to hit right.
Speaker 2:So what was the? What was probably your biggest takeaway and, like, what was your biggest moment in college wrestling?
Speaker 3:um, I'd say probably probably my biggest moment was probably in that, in that Michigan duel. Oh, yeah, yeah sure, most fun moment. Yeah, you know, I didn't qualify for nationals. I went, I believe, like 23 and 11, my senior year. Okay, I got ranked as high as 26, but what's the qualification for that?
Speaker 2:So for some people that don't understand what is, what is that?
Speaker 3:It's frustrating man. So like, if you want to qualify for the NCAAs but possibly never started day in your life, go to the big 10. Okay but like, if you want to start and have a good experience and like you know, like you're gonna have to really be a top 15 to qualify, then go to a different conference. Okay and that's kind of the frustrating part. So like my story is is like there's like the coaches ranking, and then there's RPI. Okay, rpi is like statistics who beat who had?
Speaker 3:had stuff yeah, and so like they're based on both of those rankings, right, so my conference had eight guys in the RPI, okay the top 30. Yeah right, so like we should have at least gotten like four or five bids. Yeah we got one, and one is Anthony Noto.
Speaker 2:Yeah, number two in the country, right.
Speaker 3:He was 30 and won that year. I was the two seed. I was ranked 26 in the country. Didn't bring a bid. Jake Ferry was a three-time NCAA qualifier. Didn't bring a bid. Holy shit, yeah. And then and then. Bryce West was also a two-time qualifier. Yeah and he took eighth in that bracket. Wow, and so like just not a good year for bids. Did well, I could I mean you know, but yeah, I mean it wasn't enough.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's frustrating because, like I mean realistically, like I did drop like a tough duel like the week before, okay, at MSU, and like gotta, you know you got to take ownership for that. I try I probably win that dual meet you know, 24 and like or like 20. I probably would have been like 22 and 9 or something going in the conference tournament, sure, and like that probably would have been the difference maker, for sure. But like I don't know, dude, it's disgusting, it's. It's disgusting how many.
Speaker 3:I don't hate you, the big 10 gets it's, it's yeah and it's sad, but like those guys are good. You know like those guys are good too, but it's just like yeah you know, like it seems like whenever push comes to shove, the big 10 gets an extra bid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, but yeah, and then you know me too, like MS, the Michigan State Open yeah, really tough team. I mean, yep, sorry, michigan State Open is like a really tough preseason tournament. Yeah, and I made the finals of that and that's all nice. I mean there's probably like seven guys ranked at my weight. Okay, um ton of big 10 schools of Ohio State, michigan, michigan State, like all those schools, like all the you know, like the you know, like Arizona State goes out. Yeah like I mean ton of solid competition, I think a second nice, my senior yourself pretty cool, nice, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and see, like I'm just thinking in my head right now. Obviously we haven't, none of my kids have gone to college and wrestled. But just thinking of the events that you guys go to, whether it's an open or whatever, like just knowing that you guys are going to those, I would just be like, hey, get to, just see if you can get to the top, see, even get to it. I don't care if it's a big 10-term or if it's the that open that you're talking about. To me it's. It's the college level. Like this is where you wanted to get to For folk style, right, but this is where you want to get to just a hammer. You know, just go out and do it again and after that it's done.
Speaker 2:You know, because I know a lot of kids, their focus isn't, you know, necessarily an NCAA title. They want world titles, you know. And now they want Olympic titles because the games changed a little bit, you know, since you were in high school. That's a lot of these guys are talking about it's just world titles and Olympic titles, which is great. So now you have kids that are looking at RTCs. You know I'm saying so. Was that ever part of your vision, that anything that you wanted to do is like freestyle, trying to make a world team, things like that.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, going back to it. I mean definitely Greco when I was young.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 3:I kind of I kind of really wanted to wrestle the vision one. Yeah and I just knew realistically, like, yeah, I could try to make a team eventually. Yeah, you know. But like the reality is is like Like, if you're trying to do that shit, half-ass at the Olympic level. Yeah, I think folk style, eight months out of the year. Greco a couple.
Speaker 3:Yeah and like, even if I could make the team on the US, yeah, like the reality is is like there's people outside of the US that are training that shit since five years all Time months out of the year.
Speaker 2:We talked to Lucas stealth about that a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's just a joke, like I'm all for what Lucas stealth is doing. Yeah you want to wrestle? Go go to Lucas stealth. Yeah you want to do Greco? Yeah, if you're serious about it you go there. Do it don't even do high school like I know. That's like so hard to see because you're only like one athlete right.
Speaker 2:But, like.
Speaker 3:If that's your goal, then what are you doing? Messing around with all this intermediate bullshit? Yeah just to like say you did it like right. I mean that's, that's just gonna hinder you and like you have to accept that. So, like for me, it was like I mean yeah, I took second at world team trials twice, yeah, almost one. Fargo, roman Bravo young had locked me to beat me. I was winning 844 on criteria and he had locked me and you got to wrestle some Great guys, like some really great competitors.
Speaker 2:So that's the other thing too is like you're when you're in college you made it to the D1 level you're wrestling against Guys who also had to make the D1 level. Like these guys are good guys. Like you're not just wrestling against oh crap, I beat him last year and now I'm losing to him. No, no, no, no, no. Like these guys, you're gonna have a hard time every single day against you know. So I mean, that's the other thing is getting to have that piece of it. And then then you get the knowledge to bring back to the kids you know, to be able to coach, which is a big thing.
Speaker 3:So, as you're kind of getting into when you were at Central Michigan, where you're getting more and more into that coaching mode they talk about, yeah, well, my coach at all is actually give me Tom Tom really don't give me crap and be like Very Glenn, I already know you're getting into coaching, so the deal cuz like I'd like talk through like younger classmen, like I Just I have high wrestling IQ like I can talk about like every little situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm like a huge film nerd, okay, yeah, like I'll just watch like wrestling film, like anytime we have like tournaments and stuff, and I just have a nick for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like, yeah, I think he kind of saw that and then I didn't really know. I mean, obviously, after I got done with my fourth year, mm-hmm, I didn't know I wasn't really planning on going back for a fifth year, just because the whole COVID thing and like ever, oh yeah, years, and I was like, okay, well, like I would go 25 and like drew hell brand just took fourth at NCA's right, I wasn't, I wasn't quite beating them right close, but like not not quite there, yep, and I was like okay, so I, you know, I didn't, I just move back here and stuff.
Speaker 3:And then Ben actually called me like right away.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, nice.
Speaker 3:Ben and go like oh, somehow got a hold of me, is like I heard you moving back. Like Green Bay is opening, we need you. Yeah, and then sign getting at the end of that and then I say move to Michigan. And then just decided that I wanted to try out Grand Rapids. Yeah, it's on the West side. Yep and then to like somehow they found out about me again. So I'm like in both situations, like I've just like moved and like as soon as I moved, like I just got caught, so I just yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean I've just accepted, I can't get away from the sport.
Speaker 2:You were thrust it into it. Yeah, I tried to get out and they pulled me back in.
Speaker 1:They just pulled me back in. Yeah, dude, they can't get out.
Speaker 2:You can't get out, man. You only get out by dying. So when you, when you kind of you're starting to wind down college, you're picking up the coaching thing, and then obviously we start rolling into more of the adult life thing with the company when was that? Was this, was the shoe thing, something like? Were you always Kind of thing in there? Was it just? You're like, man, you know what I want to do this. They're just the thing you want to do it.
Speaker 3:I mean I'd always, like you know, thought about it when I was a kid, okay. Then like when I was in college yeah, not really as much, but like I always collected shoes here and there, so like it was always kind of there, Just not in that capacity.
Speaker 2:But then you were taking like graphic design classes in college. I just thought I might that was.
Speaker 3:That was all learned when I started this. But then, yeah, like that was kind of the thing is like the curious, like, and I mean, yeah, I mean, like I said, like, as years have gone, I've just noticed that like the shoes have gotten worse and worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Routish is okay, quality okay, it's okay, but like, but they actually do like. Give you new product lines every year sure, sure, you got it were credit super at like I mean a lot of their shoes, like hundred forty hundred eighty bucks, and like they finally just came out with a hundred dollar pair.
Speaker 2:You know, like the ones that, because Liam's were about to bust outside to get a pair, those are a hundred bucks. Yeah so that I think they probably saw you and they're like wait a minute.
Speaker 3:They better be scared. But yeah, no, I mean just like. Yeah, I mean obviously test the market. Yeah no and to yeah. I mean like if, if anything, and into like scrap life. I don't know what they're up to, but like I've, I Followed their site. Yeah, I mean I'm, I'm in this, so like yeah, you know, and like I've noticed, like they've had, like holding like size sixes for like, and they only have one line.
Speaker 3:Just put a ton of different colors, like they've only had like size sixes, like any shoe, and like stock for like months. Really like, it'll be like one. Yeah, go look at their site, right like. I have this and it'll be like size six for one shoe and it'll be like size six and a half. They don't even have like so. Yeah and so like nobody's really doing that great of a job right now, and like it is?
Speaker 3:I mean dude, the combat fours are freaking. All in my grandma, yeah and then. Yeah, Like I mean I actually I do like Nike shoes. Yeah, I actually think probably Nike does the best job. Okay then flux and stuff like that, yeah, but like the top was again You're looking at a hundred fifty dollar price range like yeah, I mean not. Wisconsin wrestling is the most blue color sport.
Speaker 3:Right, no shit A lot of these parents aren't shelling out a hundred fifty hundred eighty dollars shoes. No well be. The biggest thing too is like if I were ordering the same quantities as them, I'd be charging seventy dollars for my shoes. Right, I'm only price at. This is because, like you know, like a, I mean I have to pay for everything myself. Yeah, and then like B, like I'm not getting the same price that these people are getting it. Like, like I'm not getting, like the same. Like trade terms, we'll take a UIS and like, and also like with my supplier, like I'm not ordering 10,000 shoes right To get like that same cost well, because we're talking about capital.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like when they implement the same shoe every year. There's no, like they don't have to go through the prototype process.
Speaker 2:Testing and testing and all that stuff, like they just change the color of the fabric and, like you know, so they, they have the robots that they can put like a shoe onto a robot foot that just sets their inflexes all day, whereas you're out wearing them right, like you're testing them out and like putting them to the test. You've been through three parents because Something happened, so you want to fix that. You know you're like you're you're putting hands on to it, which I totally appreciate. You know that's a, it's a big thing, like I mean, like I've been dealing with clothing for a little while and it's like it's hard to get things right. You know it's hard to get things.
Speaker 2:That when you're picky and you know what you want and you know what you've been dealing with for so long for shoes, like you want to do a certain thing and you want to put out a certain product that everybody like. So when you started kind of diving into this world of it, like what did you? What were you kind of figuring out where you like, how did you? Number one, how did you get in contact with someone that makes shoes? Was it just someone that you reached out to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean a little bit, yeah you know there's, there's social media Plot or there's like platforms. Yeah, you can like kind of reach out, yeah, but just like searching like who made wrestling shoes? And then it was like sending them like designs that I'd made. Oh, sure, yeah okay, like, is this something you do? And then, like you know, like when I made these, like I had three different suppliers trying to make this and I was like, okay, which one do I like the best?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, yeah, you gotta look at all the yeah like I got to look like, yes, like I, you know, like, obviously I'd like multiple suppliers make the same shoe. Yeah be like okay, this suppliers doing the best job. And for sure you know just kind of going from there and then, as I test them out and they break, that'll be like okay, yeah, what are my other material options? Like what would be a tougher material that would like fit in a wrestling shoe?
Speaker 2:Are you working on an orthopedic wrestling shoe?
Speaker 3:But these things are comfy man.
Speaker 2:Let me see it. Inside of that, that's I, you know oh yeah, like that's nice in there yeah that's the most comfy shoe on the market.
Speaker 3:I stand by that.
Speaker 2:That's almost like memory foam in there. Yeah almost, almost.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's that thick but it's like elite athletes are spending a lot of time on the wrestling shoes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I have something. Yeah, that's pretty nice. Yeah, well, I think we were talking about the other day too, about how someone had some root issues. Now, not rudest, calm down, relax, but Liam, when they first came out he had we got him a pair. They were the gray ones I can't remember what they called them, but they, they literally the, the soul started to rip the, the seams, the, the threads were coming out of the seams and at the time I was talking to Um Dave Schultz, wife Nancy, and I messaged her because I knew she was a part of the group that was kind of making I'm like, hey, like these, broker any, you know, like we there's some kind of she's like oh my god, she was sent those back, we'll get you another pair, so that at that time they're small and they were able to kind of Handle some of the workload, you know kind of thing that was going on.
Speaker 2:Now there's so many people had their shoes and they've had how many different designs out now, right, but I think you know, obviously they fix some stuff, but when you're pumping out that much, it's hard to have quality control or everything right like you're gonna have. You're putting thousands of shoes out in the streets. You're gonna have some issues, but it seemed like a lot of them were the same. You know, like Liam's soul issue that was, he was not the only one. We had like four or five friends. They bought some. Like yeah, ours did that too.
Speaker 2:Like first 30 days I was like I don't know man, I guess it's growing pains, just got to get through a kind of thing. But it's nice to be able to see someone who's hands-on doing the kind of thing. Like I said, you're testing them, you're wearing them and things like that. So ultimately, obviously, your goal is to get an affordable shoe out there for everybody to be able to afford, for the parents and the kids have a shoe that's gonna last them for a long time. I like how they look, I love the design. I love how far back it on the back side I'll, far down at dips. I love that. A little more per ankle protection on the side Still got room to move. So that's nice. Is there anything else you got coming up, I don't know, down the pipeline that maybe you can kind of give us a hint on anything, anything new coming out?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean definitely a partnering with people. Okay, like and I and I'll choose okay, cool, there you go. Yeah, I mean a couple different ideas kind of been thrown around, but like the, the cool thing to do would be like Some sort of shoe that's similar to this, yeah, but with like a strap that comes over. Yeah, and I Make internally, like the strap, like pretty much have like one side be Velcro, yep, and then the other side I make internal, and that would be like school logos. Oh like seven or eight color ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then like custom make, like the team logos, like if somebody orders and then like that you just upload a PDF.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right under that spot.
Speaker 3:PDF in your order and then like I mean you could like cuz you can see, I mean I'm grinding like the networking shit right now yeah, yeah and so like the goal is like kind of network and then like, let's get some team, like we'll get you custom shoes for your school for like 70 bucks a piece, yeah, and I want to get 30 orders from your school, sort of deal right now and and like that's. There's never been like team shoes done before.
Speaker 3:No, and so like that's, that's where I want my knees to be and I think it's really cool. Yeah, that's a good idea. Not everything team related, and then shoes everybody's rares, random crap. So I think that was a good idea and like the. I mean there used to be like the old, like college Nike 2k, 4s and stuff. Yeah sweet so.
Speaker 3:You know and that's the thing too is like I want to. I want to sponsor a couple college programs but, like a lot of them are like grandfathered into, like sports or, like you know, like adidas or like Nike. Yeah. I really care about wrestling, but like they're a Nike school, yeah but there's a couple of them that I know like and like Campbell would be like the big one. Oh yeah, I one of my college buddies. Yeah, I went to wrestle at Central with him. He's coaching at Campbell right now.
Speaker 2:Oh really, Liam was kind of iron them up for a little while and we first I got a lot of CME alumni there oh really all their coaches and their athletic trainer. No, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm not, or yeah so their athletic trainer was my trainer when I was at school. He took the job. Oh wow then Dresden. I wrestled with him on the yeah, college yeah, and then Scottie Santas wasn't all American.
Speaker 2:Yeah central.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when Mahalek is their assistant coach and he was a national final no kidding, okay, our whole coaching staff except for Josh Hyal. Yeah, central Michigan people. Including an athletic trainer.
Speaker 2:So that's awesome. That's awesome. So, on your endeavors, you're making this big tour here around coaching things like that, like what, what type of? What type of things are you gonna be doing other than just coaching you hanging out, you're gonna do any hunting.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, so I hunt, I'll do that back in Michigan, though, oh yeah, yep, and I'm actually some doing no wrestling tomorrow. No, I hope I'll be off.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, you gotta dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean dude, not many Friday practices either.
Speaker 2:Not really, so that's like a sad one musky fish in the morning. Oh nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's been a long week. I'm taking the day off work tomorrow.
Speaker 2:You go on some frozen-ass water.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean we booked it before we knew I'd be like yeah yeah, where are you going like when a bagel? Yeah, or yeah nice. Okay, there's lots me and my uncle are going cool. You know some friends and stuff. Right then hang out my family stuff. But no, I'm a lot of wrestling though.
Speaker 2:That's a lot. Well cuz next week you're back here Tuesday and Thursday, is that right?
Speaker 3:Yep, yep, I mean next week, tuesday and Thursday will be same ordeal practice at Denmark. Yeah 30 to 5, and then kangaroo 6 to 7 30.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, I've got camps pretty much every other day. I got a Hortonville camp next. Yeah, I mean every night and then I'll be at a WA on Sunday as well. Okay practices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Liam does, obviously does his weekly stuff. Saturday we go down to Max's and then Sunday he's back up by Josh. Hey, we gotta get back into one-on-ones with Dewey. We've been doing one-on-ones with Dewey for ever now and we took a couple weeks off just because, uh, um, I can't remember what he was doing this week, but there's some weird stuff. But, yeah, don't mind Finn just running around down here, I kind of like she owns the place. But well, hey, I hope everybody has been enjoying the show as far as the three guys that are on right now. But, oh, yeah, yeah either way. But this, this episode will be out on spot. Well, a lot of different platforms spotify, apple, um, you name it it's on like 12 different platforms. Once I put it out on a podcast, um, but, um, yeah, everybody pay attention. You got three point takedown here. Give me a shoe on someone to put in front of this camera too shoes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, follow, follow the instagram. It's three point takedown wrestling apparel. Um, obviously, what you see here is a prototype. Uh, it doesn't have the the three point takedown on it, like the final ones will, and then the final one's souls will be the all black instead of the tan. Uh, but on that, I mean, that's pretty much what do you see? There is what it's going to be.
Speaker 2:It's a slick looking shoe man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, uh, it's a sweet looking shoe.
Speaker 2:I got a pair coming, so there you go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he does.
Speaker 2:So you got was this leather, was this gray leather? At one point where you talking about that, it would tear, yeah I mean it was, it was just.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's like a microfiber. Yeah it was just like a less strong microfiber. Gotcha, gotcha, and then once they like once that started fraying up, I was like, yeah, like I want this material, it just has to be stronger. And they're like well, yeah, I mean you. I mean you can see how like tightly knitted this looks.
Speaker 2:Yes, correct.
Speaker 3:I don't know exactly how that process works from here, I thought it was leather like.
Speaker 2:looking at it from here, I thought I was leavened and I got my hands on it.
Speaker 3:This is some leather right here.
Speaker 2:Yes, correct, that's good leather too. I like that kind of yeah dude. It's uh you always see that sweaty stuff and that's just good leather.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dude, these, I, I mean I can. Whether you consider this a bad thing from a business model or not, or a good thing for, like the consumer is, like I know for a fact, nobody's paying more per unit than I am for shoes, right, right. Yeah and I and I know that because, like I, I know scrap lace designer, like who's making their shoes, and like I know the same quantity that I was gonna that I got for these, yeah, what it would cost, and it was like 60, 50 percent of the cost.
Speaker 2:Oh shit.
Speaker 3:So, like I know what type of materials are put into these shoes. Yeah like I and I, so I know that these are Legit. Yeah, I know these are legit because of like the what, what much, what the materials cost, yeah, yeah, exactly like you know the quality of the materials that are getting into it.
Speaker 2:So right now man.
Speaker 3:I'm really excited. I hope. I hope you know a lot of those growing pains that root is have with the quality. I just I hope I hit on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah for sure, man.
Speaker 3:The good thing is, I'll be small enough to handle that. So, that'll be, that'll be good. Just be a decent human right about doing business is like okay, yeah, I mean, if your shoes break after a month, yeah, fucking, message me, get you, get your shoes and like let me know, feel like you know, just running a business like that. Yeah hopefully, hopefully. Once the shoes come in, like things are gonna go really smoothly.
Speaker 2:Well, I think, I think that's the biggest thing. I think the biggest thing is just Not only the, the, the product itself, but it's also the service that comes with it. Yeah, so in the industry that I work in, we build machines. We, we build machines are like $350,000, right. So companies are spending a lot of money, so they know that they're going to get a good product, but they also need to know that they're backed up.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's the biggest thing, root is did pretty good in the beginning and then it kind of slipped off a little bit. Their their product service Slipped a little bit where when you contact him you wouldn't hear anything, or well, there's not much we can do about that, or we don't know about this. When it was like a legit issue with their product, right, and they may have picked it up a little bit now. But we have, like this pair of roots that I just got them the while we're kind of waiting, like I haven't gotten him any since he was like eight, 10, you know, somewhere on there, because I was just like there's something else, there's something else, that's, that's just as good, because I remember going through soccer shoes like crazy.
Speaker 2:But well, much luck to you, sir, with three point takedown apparel. Um, we look forward to the shoes coming in. I know Liam got his shirt, so I know he's pumped up about that, so you'll see him running around with that shirt on. But, um, everybody, pay attention. Three point takedown apparel Brock burglin. We're gonna end the show right now. I'm gonna play some music for you so you can hear it going out and uh, yeah, so that's just how it's gonna go. But, um, if anybody's got any questions for him, hit him up on instagram.
Speaker 3:Yep facebook. Yep, instagram is kind of the main point for my business, so it'll be three point takedown. Wrestling apparel Okay, yep. So yeah, I mean, if you have any questions about the shoes or anything wrestling related or going to college and wrestling and you know, just reach out to me there.
Speaker 2:We'll put all your stuff in the podcast. When I put that, uh, put that all together. I'll put your your instagram on there and the website I'll put in there, so everybody will have access to that. But um hope everybody enjoyed we're out. You oh, oh oh.