#81 Kamal Bey: A Glimpse into the Life of a World Class Athlete

Get ready to embark on a captivating journey as we sit down with Kamal Bey, the reigning US champion of Greco wrestling at 77 kilograms. We delve into his astounding journey, navigating through his initial multi-sport athlete days in Illinois, right up to his passion for Greco Roman wrestling that has led to remarkable success in the sport. Alongside this, Kamal recalls his upbringing within a competitive family, particularly under the influence of his boxer father. This episode provides an intimate peek into Kamal's life and the perseverance needed to conquer the wrestling world.

As we follow Kamal's path, we traverse through various subjects revolving around sports and personal growth. We chat about the highs and lows of high school wrestling, the transition from national to international stage, humorous recollections of youth athletics, and heavier topics such as weight management and overcoming adversity. Kamal’s international success and his experience with the World Class Athlete Program unfolds, revealing his relentless determination and resilience. 

Our conversation with Kamal wraps up as we discuss the technicalities of Greco-Roman wrestling, his first overseas experience, and his aspirations for making all three national teams. We also get a glimpse into Kamal's travel experiences and his preference for traveling as a team. Through this episode, we explore every aspect of Kamal's life, and the undying determination it takes to thrive in the wrestling world. Tune in to this engaging episode to appreciate the true essence of resilience and determination.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:15

Nu vigil I I.

Speaker 2: 3:25

And we're live. We are live. Once again, we are joined by a great guest. We are here in the Vision Quest podcast. I'm Brad and again we are joined with probably I'm going to tell you right now probably one of the more highlight reels of that I've ever seen. As far as throws when it comes to the Greco scene in general, man, you make a statement every single time and well, you're the king at 77 kilograms. We have Kamal Bay. Appreciate you joining me, man. Appreciate it.

Speaker 3: 3:56

Hey, thank you, brad. It's good to be here. It's cool to be on the Vision Quest podcast. It is my first time being on the podcast too, so oh really, oh, yeah, this is something for me. Yeah, this is something All right man, all right.

Speaker 2: 4:06

So we got, we have a first time, we're, so hopefully we can get you back in the. You know we get you kind of going and we'll have you come back on and keep following you. Now I've been watching you for a long time, dude. I mean again, I mentioned the highlights that come on almost every time you're at a competition. I mean you're, you have high intensity and you look like you have a genuine love for what you're doing and that's why it's fun watching you. And then also what also interested in me talking to you, because you're one of those guys that's kind of you're, you're outspoken but you don't speak enough. I think you know you got you. When you take, when you take the opportunity to speak, you make a count and that's the best part you know, so that that makes you more interesting.

Speaker 2: 4:48

So we kind of talk about Greco quite a bit on the show, but I guess I want to find out more about you and what drove you to it. So you know the, you know the gig. We talked to everybody from the start of things where you remember sports in general, all the way to the end. Let's figure out where you're. You're Oak Park, illinois, right Birthplace, uh yeah, sort of kind of Illinois boys.

Speaker 3: 5:11

So I'm moving around a lot Illinois. My parents were always sort of kind of looking for you know the next best opportunity for me. So, um, I ended up moving to Oak Park around eighth grade graduate, uh, graduated eighth grade middle school, then went to Oak Park, remember, for his high school. Okay, okay, that's all in the year, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:28

Where did? Where did you originate from when? Where before you went to Oak Park? Where are you coming from? Uh, bellewood, illinois okay, okay. So is that grade school years? I mean cause it.

Speaker 3: 5:39

Yeah, great years. Billwood, illinois, um, from Bellewood, illinois, moved around again to, uh, bowlin Brook and then from Bowlin Brook, illinois, um would wrestle. Well, in Bellewood I wrestled for the gladiators, in Bowlin Brook I wrestled for the Harvey twisters. So I moved around a lot, yeah, so I moved around a lot just for just for the sport of wrestling. Um, at the time I was a, I was a five sport athlete so, like, like, wrestling wasn't my main thing. My dad just had me in everything, so I got a bunch of different things, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:07

So let's talk about that. Where did you start? What was the first sport you started?

Speaker 3: 6:11

in. It was wrestling and football first. Wrestling and football.

Speaker 2: 6:15

So what did your dad? What's the influence from dad? Was dad in sports? Was he a football player, wrestler?

Speaker 3: 6:19

What was the deal? My dad was a uh, he bought two years professionally, uh, this time, yeah, and this time he ended up winning a Golden Gloves championship. Um, he had my sister at a young age, so it went from being a boxer to, you know, being a dad and um, since then he ended up coaching, um, the Memorial Park, which, uh, memorial Park Spartans, for like 25 years. So when I say like my dad raised the town, he raised the town like everyone knew who my dad was and everyone knew who I was, so, like I would when I started playing football, but all that's coach based on, that's coach based on, you know, nice to him.

Speaker 3: 6:51

So I had like a little reputation, like leading up to it and um, I was a youngest so like my dad like had an open door policy like kids. Okay, I was with him all the time. So I grew up with a lot of people in the house all the time, like I'm talking about 11 other people living in the house and it was, it was chaotic, but everybody was an athlete and everybody was competitive and I was the baby, I was the one carrying the milk carton around in the diaper, you know so so.

Speaker 3: 7:20

But we had, we had a totem pole, like at the top of it was like my cousin Omar, my, my older sister Ashley, and then it was right, I was right there. Number three I was the baby but I was the meat. Yeah, like I'm not a post, you know, licking food so no one else could have it. It's like Bill, you had to do it, you had to do it oh a hundred percent.

Speaker 3: 7:39

You have to set the tone, otherwise we would just walk over you. That's right, yeah. But yeah, so a lot of people in the house at an early age, so it was never boring and um, yeah, my dad was was super duper competitive and uh, at an early age I was already super athletic. Every time my dad would find me, I was on the ceiling somewhere. Um, his favorite, one of his favorite stories he tells people is, uh, we had a park district and uh, they have like uh, little bitty ball games and stuff. And they took me out and like, they sat me out on the bench and my dad's like asking around, like where's Kamal at, where's Kamal at? And then I say, here I am and I'm like at the top of the ceiling.

Speaker 3: 8:14

I climbed up the walls and when the ceiling, my dad starts panicking. He's like, oh my gosh, like just come down, please just come down. Your mother's going to kill me. And I know coming down cause he's nice to me. But yeah, he got me for that one. He was not. He was not happy. I was on the ceiling.

Speaker 2: 8:29

So what was, what was the age that you started at? Was it four or five years old? In sports, I mean, obviously you're, you were the youngest, so they've been through it and plus your dad had been through high level sports already. You must have been in there. I would say probably birth then, probably right.

Speaker 3: 8:43

I mean three years old. I was a, I was a strong one, nice, nice, when, when I was three years old, football, three to four years old. When I started football and there was just so many opportunities because we live right next to the park district that I was able to participate in other sports, you know, like baseball, basketball and stuff like that, yeah, even tennis for a little bit, so nice. Yeah, like full spectrum, like whatever, just yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:07

So it's, that's pretty cool. So just knowing that, you know, obviously your, your dad was a high level athlete but at the same time he understood, and we noticed that a lot. That was some of the guys that have, like you know, dads that were high level athletes in general, you noticed that they had a little more. I guess, give with the hey we, I know how rigorous it could be. Have fun with it, you know. Whereas you get a dad like me who doesn't, who wasn't always at that high level. You know I did a little bit with soccer, but not not to what your dad was doing, but that you kind of get an understanding of where these guys can see things. They have a different.

Speaker 2: 9:40

You know your dad had a different perspective than the average parent, right? Oh yeah, so, but he was super obviously competitive. What kind of I mean? So you, you're the youngest, so you came up with brothers and sisters already that were highly competitive and whatever they chose to do. So you're just thrown into it. You don't have an option about being competitive, you're thrown into it. Where does that put you in the pecking order of the cereal line? Did you always fight to get to the cereal box first or to get the breakfast first, how was that?

Speaker 3: 10:08

That's a good question. So like, yeah, I was number three in the house, I was the baby. So, yeah, I was obviously the smallest, but I just, whatever I would do, I could never beat my oldest sister Ash, and I couldn't be my oldest cousin Omar. No, Well, I just like she would. Man, my sister was mean. Like when I tell you my sister Ashley, she was mean. She used to play high school football, middle linebacker. Yeah, like she could, she could throw down. Holy shit, she could throw down. Yeah, I'm like. So when running to her she was, it wasn't me being the meanest, it would have been her. She did play any game and instead of an athlete D1 basketball player and my cousin Omar, he, he went to school in New Hampshire, was a state champion out there in New Hampshire, nice.

Speaker 3: 10:51

My dad sent them to study in a different state, thought it was the best move for him, and he came back. He was really successful out there, so that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 10:58

Yeah, that's awesome. So so when you started wrestling, you started wrestling at a young age and obviously you're mixing other sports in with it, staying active, and that's kind of how things were with us too. Like I'm going to be 45 and Uh, january here, but that's what that's all we did. Like our parents didn't know high level, but they knew play sports, play it well, go to practice. Do you know? Do your thing. So when you have a high, you know high level, you know parent, parent, athlete, plus the competitiveness in the house. Where were your, I guess, um, skill levels as you started to get older and things? Were you a little more skilled than the average kids that were in the room when it came to being in, plus the competitiveness you had already? What was that? Like kind of growing up, what did you find? Things were a little easier for you in certain situations than other kids.

Speaker 3: 11:47

I would say because of just how well versed I was in like different sports. They definitely definitely contributed to, like my growth and development, plus growing up in a household where everybody is an athlete, so you just sort of kind of absorb things. You know at a young age, like you absorb everything. Kids absorb everything, right, like basketball for my sister, you know, wrestling for my cousin, omar, and so forth. It was just like everything that seemed hard for other kids. I didn't understand, you know, I was like what do you mean you can't do a car wheel? What do you mean you can't do a right? You know spending the round on a monkey bars, like like there's nobody's business and everybody's like man, you know you're super duper athletic. But it also helped out having um crazy good friends, like, uh, my best friend, one of my grooms been at my wedding, isaiah White. I grew up wrestling with him all the time. Yeah, the reason I would move to Harvey is because, like I started wrestling in record so like I didn't like really shoot on legs or anything that young.

Speaker 3: 12:38

Okay, I started to wrestle in record when I was three, yeah, so, yeah. So my first tournament, uh, my first folks out tournament, I wrestled Isaiah White in the finals and, um, he blew right through me. My dad was just like man. We got to go over there. We guys started learning some of that, you know. So then I ended up transitioning over to a twister and um meeting guys like Randy many weather and stuff like that, like you know um top caliber athletes in the in the Harvey twister program and while at the same time competing against people in the state of Illinois. Illinois is a is a powerhouse when it comes to, like you know, wrestling Midwest heavy hands. You know everyone Midwest they hand fight. So, yeah, growing up, growing up, being me for one thing, you know, you just kind of sort of adapt and roll with the punches, like now I get hit, I'm just like whatever.

Speaker 2: 13:22

Whatever yeah. I love that you know so you. You're coming up fairly competitive, especially within the sport. I mean, what were, what were some of the, I guess some of the first tournaments? You kind of remember hitting it or you know and I guess big event to you, what were some of the first that you hit as a kid that you kind of remember? You're like, okay, this is what I'm going to do.

Speaker 3: 13:43

One of the tournaments is Tulsa Nationals. So, yeah, All right. Yeah, Tulsa Nationals was a tough tournament. So I've only been to Tulsa twice and each time I didn't win it. I didn't win it. The first time I was I was a 88 pounds or something like that Lost out in that tournament, and then the second time I went, they messed up my weight, so I was supposed to wrestle 103 pounds but they put me in at 130. Oh yeah, they put me in at 130. So I was like I remember, like my dad, we put all like I don't think this is the right weight class, Like yeah, right.

Speaker 3: 14:17

It was way bigger than me and I go, I go eat. Man, yeah, I like. My dad was like well, we drove all the way out here, we just going to compete. So I'm 103 pounds, I'm wrestling to give us a bunch of 130 pounders and, man, I won eight Match, though, so I had some heart. I had some heart after that. I was, I was that. I'm like man, these dudes are big.

Speaker 2: 14:37

That'll turn you off of folk style real quick.

Speaker 3: 14:40

Oh, it was a funny tournament, it didn't. It motivated me. I was like man, if I was probably my weight class, I probably would have got these guys. You know, yeah, yeah, that was funny, that was, that was one of my funniest trips.

Speaker 3: 14:52

They used to have a tournament that they held at Michigan State. All the time I can't remember what it's called Something, the battle, something, that one with a tough, a tough tournament. And there was one kid there that I remember, jelani Embrey. Do do the, do the beast man. He's super slow, like he's always wanted to wrestle me. But, yeah, like it was like he would just lose out in the semifinals. And I remember, as I'm like whoo man, I do look tough and it was one of those tournaments that was always on my birthday. So, like Illinois, we do, like you know birthday hits. So, like everybody on the team would like beat me up. They like where's the mom hiding in my hotel room? I'm like, yeah, that's not. They're like we're not coming out there, we're not gonna get you. I'm like, all right, looking out my window, okay, yeah yeah, I believe you, I believe you yeah exactly.

Speaker 3: 15:47

You know, kids are funny man. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:50

They are, they're, they're tricky. We'll see you tricky. Oh yeah, miss Steve. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3: 15:54

They believe. But you know they grew up like always. You know being able to laugh at situations and stuff. That's one thing like wrestling teaches you, because it there's moments where it sucks. I remember going on long road trips. All my friends are in the back cuz my dad used to have like a. It was like there's luxury, like a travel van.

Speaker 2: 16:11

So, like all my friends, your dad was that guy. Yeah, that was the guy.

Speaker 3: 16:14

We pulled up correct. We were correct at the tournament awesome. We like sitting in the back and we're going to, we're going to Virginia Beach for the yeah rules one there and uh, I, my friend, I'd say, is that coach wall? He used to. He used to like get fried chicken. He just had like a bucket of fried chicken. I've everybody's in the back cutting weights and he's like you guys drift our drill. You be on weight. Oh. We just hit the smell in there. That's awesome. Everybody's lips chap, I actually be like man.

Speaker 2: 16:49

That's the best.

Speaker 2: 16:51

Like you said, that kind of that that built the camaraderie you know and that builds, I guess, the spirit of, of just this is my thing, this is my sport, you know, and a lot of kids have that now, especially that that not many people have. And again, you being able to come up in such an environment, especially with Harvey twisters, I mean that's obviously a proven program and everybody if you haven't heard of them you should have by now. But Knowing that you're kind of growing up in a, in a heavy-hitting room, but you're also a competitive kid who's like I can't even watching you now, they can't even imagine what it was like watching you as a kid. I mean, because obviously we get bigger, right, you become an adult things you're not. You're not as Like when you're a kid. You're flying everywhere, right, like you're your rubbery number one, number two, you're way so much energy that you're ready to go.

Speaker 2: 17:40

I can only imagine what was like watching you wrestling folk style back in the day as a kid. So, knowing that you were, you said you got an agreco early. Where did that put folk style in? Like going to school, harvey twisters, I mean, I don't, I'm not really too. You know, like I don't, I don't like stalk Harvey twisters, but do they do? Did they have a Greco program?

Speaker 3: 18:01

so they there's.

Speaker 3: 18:03

They have some Harvey twisters who are who were known for for throwing, so okay okay, phil, who was, uh, who always, like, he was one of those coaches that other people told me to stop throwing here. They meant, don't you ever stop throwing? Like you know, that's that's you, that's who you are. Yeah, you know you can ask stuff to it, but like, never take anything away. And then there's a TC dancer, thomas Curtis dancer. Okay, okay, at the time I was one of the like the Harvey's always one of the Harvey twisters who was known for throwing. So I Will go like they'll be. Like you know, don't lock up with them, don't go up a body, what, yeah, he's gonna try to throw you. So One of the ways I had to refine my folk style pretty much is when I got in the high school. Yeah, I was coached by Mike Powell, jeremy Powell, coach Collins, octavia's Bellamy and so yep, so like there, my, it was probably my freshman year. That's when I started like really understanding and learning the basics.

Speaker 3: 18:57

High school wrestling it's an intense. You got good schools. You got like martini Catholic, yeah, you got, you got Marist high school. So like it's deep, like in Carl Sanford, which was our, which was our nemesis. Yeah, essentially never in my teenie, our nemesis. I remember someday, some days will be a practice in coach, probably like we're gonna do a six minute go. But I called martini and they said they were going seven minutes, so we're going eight minutes. Yeah, and I'm like man, you need to stay off his phone. Yes, I'm doing that.

Speaker 3: 19:32

Yeah, but that that old park room that my freshman year is really where I got to like kind of hone and like sharpen, like my, my folk style side of things, you know and I'm mixing my Greco stuff in there too it was. It was a great room and we had I think almost everybody in that room was ranked in the country Really cross all our ways. Yeah, that's high in the country, like you know, top 15 people in the country. And Coach Walt used to say you know, if you look around the room and you can't find no butter, it's because you are the butter.

Speaker 3: 20:06

Yeah, yeah, I remember my first, yeah, I remember my first practice there, my freshman year. I wrestled the Devonte Mahomes who did a going to school at Michigan that previous year. That previous year he just took third at State Illinois and I remember like my first day, like I like had to walk out the room. He had me crying cuz like I ain't. I've never got beaten the way he beat me that first day in practice. I was like it's supposed to be hard drill. It felt like I was wrestling live.

Speaker 3: 20:32

Yeah, yeah, I go back and I tell my dad and my dad is like, well, that's the room you need to be in, right there. Yeah, he's right, yeah, he's right. Today everything kind of just sort of went uphill and after my freshman year I got more control of my body, my matter wearing this match strategy. Everything got better. It got to the point where I started break dancing in the middle of matches. Yeah, really, yeah, we had. We had the fat five, our fat five of old parts, fat five, which was five freshmen who made the varsity team and we all made the state that year.

Speaker 3: 21:05

So we caught ourselves or our fat five, yeah, and we used to like put on like Carnival acts. You would think you would pull up and we were like we do one's front flips over each other, back flips over each other and everybody would just stop and watch it like they just want like. And our warm-up was hard too, like, yeah, other people like super duper gas, we were working our warming apart and then we just started doing flips. Look like Carney folk, you know, like man, like these.

Speaker 2: 21:31

These are some athletes and we started seeing that's right athletes.

Speaker 3: 21:35

Yeah, and we started doing this thing. We called it footwork and when we were out there wrestling and we would just start like doing all the craziest things, trying to get the Takedowns and like, if you like, look at some of like my high school matches on flow, you will see like me doing like the yeah, taking people, yeah, yeah, I saw a couple of those yeah you're gonna you almost I think you were doing the Muhammad Ali, I think for a second and a couple of me facing the guy, you quick moving your feet over and I was like man, I would have tripped over my feet in a heartbeat doing that.

Speaker 3: 22:03

Yeah, people's heads, like you know, making rest, yeah, it's like folks style. For me it was. It was boring, so I would do everything in my power to make it exciting and like okay, okay, because it was like my own little style of the wrestling. You know, um, greco was my love, without a doubt. I used to love being on team Illinois teams, yeah, Greco.

Speaker 2: 22:23

All I cared about let's talk about that first, because you took you just said that you know, like folk style Kind of was boring you for a little, you know, mom, maybe not for a little while, probably since you started, but with being able to incorporate, you know, greco as much as you can into folk style. Where where were you? I mean, were you? Because we look at Lucas stout right now, right, where he's got his club, where he wants kids to just focus on Greco and that's what they do, yeah, where? Where was your mind at at that time? Because Greco, I mean even then wasn't the hugest thing going on on the planet, right, but yeah, wrestling itself was starting to climb. Greco got a little recognition with it. But where were? Where was your frame of mind? Like, I don't know, I, I would rather just go train Greco and do Greco. I don't want to do high school wrestling. Was your brain ever there?

Speaker 3: 23:10

Briefly I could say briefly yeah, like it wasn't something that I was stressed about. My personality, like it is what it is. You know, okay, sure, yeah, my dad. My dad said all the time so that's pretty much how I came up. It is what it is like.

Speaker 3: 23:23

Yeah, so with the Greco side of things, like I want to state my sophomore year. So All right, yeah, in my mind it was like what's the next big thing? You know, like I'm never the type of person to like focus on something I've already done. I'm always like you know well what, what's bigger than this? You know what's right. And luckily for me, it didn't take long at all, so that next year, my junior year, matt Lillin from the Olympic Training Center comes and asks me like hey, do you want to come, russell Greco? And he thought it was going to take me like a week to decide. But like right then, and there I was, like heck y'all, russell Greco, like I ain't doing nothing else around here. You know, I'm 17 years old, just got offered by the head coach of the national team to come Russell Greco. Like yeah, it was huge. So the hardest part about it was saying goodbye to everybody I was right, that was the hardest part, because I love my home, I love my friends, I love my family.

Speaker 3: 24:19

They're there, everything. That's my number one support system, right, right. You know you can almost get emotional when you talk about you know home, like that, you know like I can like. You know people can say whatever they want about me, whatever I can get hurt, but hey, my family, that's everything.

Speaker 2: 24:32

Well, and that's the biggest thing too, you have a great and that's the thing, you have a great support system and a lot of the guys we talked to all came with a great support system. You know, and again, your dad, having the high level athletic experience that he's had, he knows the goals that you have and what it takes to get there. So having a, especially the support system that knows that, you know that is that is experienced, that it's hard for you know, just an average dude like me, to be able to say, hey, yeah, you know that's exactly what you should do, but you guys only have a finite amount of time, right, like you can only do it for so long before it's done, whereas a school is going to be there when you're done. Right, those aren't going anywhere. Your ability to compete dwindles. The education will always be there.

Speaker 2: 25:19

So was there, was there ever a time? So you said this was your senior year, that Linden talked to you. Junior year, junior year, Junior year. So your junior year? Okay, so did you wrestle your senior? Did you go to high school? Your senior year, did you move out to the Olympic?

Speaker 3: 25:34

center. Yeah, so my senior year I got to live with one of my heroes for high school, thomas Cole, there. Oh boy, yeah, gregor, roman, 2008 Olympian. So I got to live with him and his family and man, this is life changing man. They still are like some of my favorite people in the world. Yeah, that's pretty cool man.

Speaker 2: 25:56

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:56

They took care of me and it switches the gears from being like the youngest in my family because I had to be a big brother, yeah, so I'm just like. My family is like you're just growing Right. Right, pc had two kids, two sons, tommy and Tice, and then you had two daughters, true and Tallya. Yeah, they're my everything, man. They're my everything as long as they're good, or good everything's good out here in Colorado, you know.

Speaker 2: 26:21

So yeah, yeah, well, and I think again, that's just kind of just the things that we talk about. A lot of the show is you know the support system, your goals, your visions, the things that you want to accomplish, but you know the relationships that are built along the way to are pretty big. You know, and like you just keep you keep finding more and more as you go along, as you discover things about yourself and figuring out what you want to do. And before you left high school, like the one thing I wanted to ask about was what Fargo when did? Obviously you made it, I mean, in Greco. So how, how did that go for? How was Fargo for you?

Speaker 3: 26:56

Yeah, and that actually is one of the reasons that I got scouted by Matt Linn too. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:01

Yeah, right, yeah. So after state, obviously the next big thing for high school wrestling is Fargo. Yeah, and for me, like I never cut weight really in high school like that. So after, after you know, grade school, it was like, hey, whatever you wait, that's what you're going to go do, you're going to go wrestle? And Fargo, I would wrestle good guys man, I would wrestle Bo Braske, I would wrestle Paul, yeah, and like me and Bo used to have some scraps in there. And then me and Mark too Mark is a really good at wrestling still to this day and it's cool seeing them and like we're, we're still good friends, group chatting and everything, yeah, but yeah, so Fargo, greco, roman was the most important thing for me. So after I won Greco, they, they were trying to convince me to stay at rest of freestyle, but I was like no, I'm out of here. Like I got my national title finally, because my first time going, like I didn't win, like I'm like dang, this sucks.

Speaker 2: 27:55

Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's one of those tournaments, man. That's that was kind of why I asked, because I mean that's, that's a, that's a daunting task to just you know. Oh shit, I tough, yeah. And then, so now, what about the year after?

Speaker 3: 28:10

Yeah, Hope to like a whole lot of stop sign level, a whole lot of yield signs. We call them. We didn't call them stop signs, they were small signs. So I got a bunch of second places. And then the, my junior year. I finally won it. Um, I was like, okay, I'm good. Now I got my Fargo title. What's next? Yeah, Next, Now Matt Lillin comes into the picture and he picks me up to come wrestle Greco. That's awesome. That's a whole experience itself. So, um, I don't know, like, uh, growing up with like TC, uh, living with TC, it was like it was like almost being like an anime character. I felt like Goku, like he would have me, he would have me just do random stuff in the neighborhood, landscaping. He was like, hey, this guy said he would pay you if you go over here and move all these rocks. So, like one summer me and Tommy were just doing landscaping and like we got like we got like strong cause. We were like just will bear rocks.

Speaker 3: 28:58

You guys are gang gable in it. Yeah, we're just getting strong. And then he's just going over body lock position with a body lock position and then, uh, that's awesome, yeah. And then we have a junior trials. Oh, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 29:11

Well, when you, when you got, when you, when you got asked by Lillin, you know, like, cause, you said you had to say goodbye to everybody. You know you're, you're taking a whole new venture, a whole new course. Where, where, what, what was the landing spot for you when you got out there? Cause you're young, right, you're a kid, and the experience that you're about to have you don't even know about, right, so that we always talk about, especially the kids that are going to college, they don't, they're making a four or five year decision that they have no clue what's going to come about it, what's going to happen. You know what, your goals are, right, but so when you, when you get out there Matt, you know, brings you out there and you're, you're training with TC, right, when you got out there, right, yeah, what is? Was that because of the, the situation, you're still young were, were you living at the facility or were you living with TC as well?

Speaker 3: 29:56

I was living with TC, so you were there full time.

Speaker 2: 29:58

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:00

It was my first year, so he wanted me to graduate high school, make friends, and that's exactly what I did. I graduated high school, I made a ton of friends and then from there, then, the real strength, the real training started. So now we're we're. Now we're at the Olympic training center.

Speaker 3: 30:15

Yeah, yeah, my first two weeks there I remember just getting beat up like man, like I'm like you got some of your partners, so, man, I had a great, I had everybody. Man, I had Patrick Martinez, I had Ray Vaughan, perkins, jesse yeah, like I had there were there. Man, there were some names in there. And then, um, cheney, height and TC would wrestle with me too. We're on that time. And then he was around. Then Robbie Smith was around there, like you know, that didn't wrestle with Robbie. I, like you know, I didn't wrestle with Robbie whatsoever, but you know he's just somebody you get to see.

Speaker 3: 30:50

Yeah, right, you know you know visual learning.

Speaker 3: 30:53

I should say, yeah, visual learning, yeah, but I had those guys in, like those, those are like my brothers, man, like growing up with them, uh, being able to grow as a wrestler with them, was was huge and yeah, like, yeah, those first two weeks were rough.

Speaker 3: 31:07

They were rough and I don't know, like for me, like I have to, kind of sort of change like my outlook on it. I'm just like man, enough's enough, like I'm tired of getting beat up so much, you know. So I would like they would just do stuff to me and like, instead of, like you know, always like trying to fight it, I would just go with it and see and like see what they were doing. And then that's how. And then I developed like a bunch of counter offense, like you know, like like counter defense and stuff like that. So that's like when my turn of wrestling started happening and I started putting pieces together, like once you know what people are doing to you, then you can do it and you can, you can learn how to avoid it. So I started, I started progressing at like leaps and bounds, and having those guys in the room it was a game changer.

Speaker 2: 31:50

It was a game changer. I can only imagine.

Speaker 3: 31:52

Yeah, and then I'm 18 years old and then I got my my, my brother and another one of my groomsmen, gianngelo Hancock, with me and we're two babyface killers on the international scene. Like we're going places and you know we're wrecking havoc. He ain't got no joke, man. Oh yeah, tracey, don't play, tracey, don't play, tracey, don't play man. Yeah, but it was just good to have you know someone around my age who just he was going through the same thing I was. You know like, yeah, people don't know. Like Gercco Roman is, it's tough, like you know, take away the leg portions of everything you know how to do in wrestling, like majority of people would be stuck, it would be stuck.

Speaker 2: 32:29

So that's, that's kind of an interesting factor. I'd meant to ask any folk style titles for you in high school Stay, champ, stay, champ, okay.

Speaker 3: 32:36

Once, twice, oh, one time. Stay Champ Illinois One time one time, whatever Illinois.

Speaker 2: 32:40

That's pretty, pretty damn prospective because it is short lived, as it was for you as far as folk style goes. I mean, it's not like you weren't dedicated to it, but it just kind of seemed like because your brain was always on what's the next best thing, kind of thing.

Speaker 3: 32:53

I want that too. I want that too. I always forget about folks that are nationals. Okay, okay, okay yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:58

Yeah, so post? Are you talking about preseason nationals down in Iowa, right?

Speaker 3: 33:02

Yeah, you and I, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 33:04

Awesome Nice man. What weight classes?

Speaker 3: 33:06

160. What? Ooh, okay, so I came into high school wrestling out of man's weight. They told me to wrestle 145 and all right, funny story. So it told me, coach, uh, coach Collins is there, he's helping me lose weight. They told me that I'm going to register at 145 for the for the year. So I'm on the treadmill and I'm running and like I hated cutting weight, I was the worst at it. So I'm on the treadmill and I'm running. He pokes his head out for like 10 seconds, comes back, I'm gone. He comes down, he's looking for me all over the school and old partner for is a huge school. We got four, fours, 4,000 kids went to the school and he finds me in the cafeteria I'm drinking a milk and eating a muffin. I said I'm not going.

Speaker 3: 33:49

I broke so bad, I was like I'm not going. Oh my God.

Speaker 2: 33:53

That's awesome. So, yeah, I can do a coach. I grew.

Speaker 3: 33:56

I grew into 154. I was just like, yeah, this is my weight and so I need to watch the team at 154.

Speaker 2: 34:03

That's, that's awesome. You know, liam, liam came into his freshman year at 165. And I mean, that's a. There was no joke, but it was. We're the same way. Because I came up in the as far as the not cutting weight, because I came up in the throwing up in the spitting in the rubber suit era and you duct tape the ends of the rubber suit so that way the moisture doesn't get out, the heat doesn't escape. So we right away decided that you know, same thing, we're not going to do it.

Speaker 2: 34:28

We always wrestled them up a weight class Once in a while. We do the pounder too, if he was right in the edge, but it was always the next one up. And then we got him in a high school, especially at super 32. And that's just a. At the front of my calls it a professional weight cutters tournament. Liam was wrestling 165 with all those guys are cutting from like 175, 180, you know they're huge, you know. So it's a respectable thing. You know, knowing especially the like you said, it's just not worth it. I'd rather be healthy and be able to eat healthy.

Speaker 3: 34:59

And made my high school experience all the different, because my friends were cutting weight. They weren't eating a Chipotle burrito. You know, like, like, like I was. They were like how are you like? My coach I used to get so upset with because he would like see what I was eating before I went out. Yeah right, and he's like you're not going to eat that whole burrito before you go out. There I was like watch me, I am, I go watch me. That's awesome. Yeah, that's so cool. It goes out there and rustle hard.

Speaker 3: 35:23

It goes out there and rustle hard, man. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, and it's, it's a healthy thing.

Speaker 2: 35:28

I mean it's honestly. Some kids can handle it. We all know there's a, there's those couple of kids that are on a team that are cutting the 15 pounds or whatever to get down to what they want to for state, but there's just some kids who can't do it. Man, and I don't think Liam could do it either if he had to sit there and cut a ton of weight. But no great choice. What did you find yourself when it came down to wrestling and weight management, with what you got into as a young as a young kid, I mean 17, 18, what time? What type of weight management were you thrown into there? I mean because they had nutritionists and stuff, right and excuse me and people to help you with that right.

Speaker 3: 36:01

Yeah, yeah, right about the time I started my international career, I was attempting to play football at the high school but it wouldn't. It wouldn't let me play. The state association said, because I was going there to train at the Olympic training center, that I could not participate in any high school activities that I participated in Illinois. So, wow, you know. So now I'm like I'm pretty much like it's out, but at the same time I'm saving my mileage, essentially. So, like I couldn't, I couldn't like play football, I couldn't wrestle on the team, but you know, I can still, like you know, give advice to the wrestlers and stuff like helping out. That way, you know, be a man.

Speaker 3: 36:33

You're a registered weapon now, so you can't you know and be like a mentor, so like I helped out in that aspect of it, but it wouldn't let me do anything. So yeah, around that time Linlin is telling me that I got to be 74 kilos and I know, and I only know pounds and I was sure yeah sure, 74 kilos, no problem. And he's like how much you weigh right now I was like about 193 pounds. The phone just goes dark because, like I'm, I'm big, because I'm getting ready for football, I play.

Speaker 3: 37:05

I play it everywhere. So I play safety uh outside linebacker uh, so I was getting ready for football, because you know you want to be big. So you can. You can lay the hammer, you know so.

Speaker 2: 37:16

Yeah, drop like 30 pounds here right, I remember what that was.

Speaker 3: 37:18

Yeah, so I'm, he's like. He's like. You say you weigh how much. I was like. I'm like 193, 194 was up, that's 34 kilos, that's great. He's like. He's like yeah, so, uh, 74 kilos is like 163 pounds. Now the phone goes dark on my end, oh my gosh. I was like you're freaking, kidding me, Like you know. He was like you can do that right. And I was like okay yeah, I can do that.

Speaker 3: 37:49

I can do that Cause they brought me in cause. Andy Bezic was done wrestling after the 2016 game, so it's right. Yeah, he was done wrestling, so they were gonna be a 74. And in high school, um that year, I wrestled um what was it? 165 for my team, so they didn't think it'd be a problem, but I always get super huge for football.

Speaker 3: 38:08

So, now we're in the part where I'm like losing weight. And like I'm losing weight with my good friend. Uh, jordan Martinez was one of the people I met out in Colorado. So we're in the sauna and like we're getting ready for, like, uh, making the junior team the junior, the junior world team. So, uh, we're in the sauna. We both like just fall out the sauna like whoo. I was like Jordan man, that's a, I'm losing a lot of weight. And he's like, yeah, me too, me too, yeah, me too, me too, me too. And like we're at TCS house. We spent a night at TCS house, cause we're about to fly out to Vegas the next morning. Um, and like we he walk it back and forth a refrigerator cause we're eating grapes, or eating grapes.

Speaker 2: 38:46

Yeah, it was so fun to way to lose that weight. How, how quickly did you have to lose? Oh, I had time, I had time. Oh, okay, okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:55

Like I can get really big and I can get really small. It was just like it's weird how my body operates, sometimes, like even now, like I walked around at 90 kilos sometimes and then I'll get down to 77. I don't know how I get so how much can you fight?

Speaker 2: 39:07

How much Wait?

Speaker 3: 39:07

Yeah, um about a pound usually. Okay, okay, but if it's freezing, yeah, but if it's freezing I'm gonna do like a pound point five yeah yeah, so they freeze it.

Speaker 2: 39:20

Sleep with the covers off.

Speaker 3: 39:22

Yeah, yeah, no problem, and I don't know how I get so big. Like my body is weird. Like if you ever see me, my calves are huge and I blame my calves for like holding all that liquid in. That's why my nickname is Camel. That's awesome, yeah. So that night before we go to Vegas and I'm about to, and I make my first junior team at this time, like me, tracy, tommy and Jordan, we're like it's the night, it's the night of like we're about to go, we're about to go way in and TC like busting our room. We're all outside the room busting our room. He comes back out and there's like a bottle of pop, so like it was like a bottle of soda, and he's like who was drinking soda? And on the way there, everybody already messed up. I was like it's easy, was already mad at everybody else, but I was like dang, it's my turn to take the blame for something Everybody else can chew it up out here, oh my God.

Speaker 3: 40:11

So I was like it's my soda, like he doesn't. He doesn't get mad at me, but I think he can tell that I took the blame for somebody. I was like it's my soda. So, yeah, he doesn't like. He's like man, you got to do everything right, you got to do everything right. So yeah, yeah, yeah, super funny. That's a good role model man. Oh no, he's the best man. He's the best. He can take all the pressure out the room. He can make it feel like yeah, he can make it feel like it's just another thing, another event, you know, just like riding a bike.

Speaker 2: 40:37

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 40:38

He's, he's dope.

Speaker 2: 40:40

What was the first event you went to once you got out to Colorado? What was your first international event?

Speaker 3: 40:46

My first international was in state and it was the Dave Schultz.

Speaker 2: 40:51

Oh, okay.

Speaker 3: 40:51

Okay.

Speaker 2: 40:52

So was that your first exposure to like international guys too?

Speaker 3: 40:56

Yes, my first time. So I did. I would say I did really well. My first time I beat two international guys and I beat NCAA all-American at the time and I was 18 years old, yeah, yeah. So I didn't medal. Though I didn't medal at my first one, sure, I medal at my second one, which was the NYAC, the New York Athletic Club tournament. Oh, okay, new York, that was my second one.

Speaker 3: 41:22

Yeah, and I won't go with that one, but that was my first one. I ended up taking fourth and it was because I wrestled a terminator of a person, alec Ortiz. Oh yeah, yeah, On your kid, it's just like man. I'm like, this dude does not get tired. Like we put up like football scores. It seemed like in that match. Yeah, you know, I was like.

Speaker 2: 41:39

I mean that's a great tournament to cut your teeth in and win. I mean, let's be real here. That's just watching some of the competition this past go around. I mean it's some good competition. Was there when you started kind of getting your hands onto these guys? Obviously you were doing Greco Like. Were you starting to feel like, okay, this is my realm, I'm going to run this once I start. Obviously you're young yet, but you're like I'm going to run this once we get down the road here, because I mean we're talking about you won Final X. I mean you're placing a championships and stuff like that, even at a young age. So let's talk about that. Where was your first overseas experience? What tournament was that?

Speaker 3: 42:22

So my first overseas experience was it was in the Rock, hungry, yep. So that was my first time overseas. My first trip was in Hungary and I went to that trip with my friend, my friend and teammate, britton Holmes, payne, omania, who wrestles at Michigan right now, and a few other guys from the Bay team I forget the name, csm, something like that. So that was our first trip overseas and I won a gold medal in a junior tournament and I was everybody's favorite person there. So at that time I had like crazy hair, like I had one of the biggest afros that you ever see and I was wrestling with it, so like I was getting there, like it was a small. It was a small little town, so like I don't know if I was like the first black person to visit or what, but all the kids, like you know, playing with my hair and stuff and I was like man, this is weird.

Speaker 3: 43:17

Like you know, just twisting my hair and stuff, but I won't go to that tournament. And nice, yeah. And I wrestled someone who became a lifelong friend, thomas Levi. Okay, okay, levi brothers three of them, they're all freaking powerhouses me and his hell, the Greco Roman wrestling. I was soon faced with his brother later on that year because I make the junior team and I wrestled his brother in the quarterfinals. And Zotan is a monster man Like that sounds like a monster yeah.

Speaker 3: 43:46

Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm like your name is old time. I never heard nobody call Zotan before. You sound like a monster, so it's funny because I mess with him. Now I call myself the fourth Levi because like I wrestle all of them so much, I'm like a new family.

Speaker 2: 44:05

That's cool. So when you, when you started to get your feet wet a little more cause I mean it sounds like you were doing right, well, right off the get, go, when were? What was a goal that you set for yourself when you first got you know your international feet Well where you started to kind of realize this, this one's important, this, you know, this tournament's important because there are different. Obviously, there's points, tournaments, there's things like that. What did you set your eyes out for once you first started getting into the international tournament scene?

Speaker 3: 44:35

I wanted to make the. I wanted to make all three teams. I wanted to make the junior team, I wanted to make the youth 23 team and I wanted to make the senior team. Whoa, yeah, I was like all right, like we're out of the rip. You know, like why not? Why not me? You know?

Speaker 3: 44:46

like yeah, yeah, I mean I got, and I got one of the best room at this time. We had one of the best rooms in the country. You know been provided within that room too. Like we had, it was one we, it was like literally one of the best rooms in the country. And we didn't get in Sanctua a little bit later on too. So, like now, like we got, we got named, we got, we got competition within the room. Yeah, we were just growing and yeah, from right then and there I was just like man, I want to be, I want to be a junior world champ, I want to be a youth 23 champ and so forth. Accomplish one of those feats. I ended up becoming a junior world champ. I didn't get you 23s because I ended up getting suspended. Okay, that's okay.

Speaker 2: 45:24

Why though? What happened? Whereabouts failures, so really yeah.

Speaker 3: 45:34

Our USADA is like pretty much like the, the governing body for as far as like testing school, you know USADA and they. You have to fill out your location You're aware about every day, for the entire year, so they know exactly where you are. You have to include travel days. You go on vacation, you have to include the hotel room number, everything, so the whole year, yeah, the whole year.

Speaker 3: 45:53

Oh my God, yeah, so you got to know all your stuff. It's like pretty much quarterly. So each quarter you have to resubmit your whereabouts and if you're not in the location at the time or they come by and you know you're just not around and you say you're going to be there at that specific time, then you get a, you get a mark on you, so you only get three, three chances. And yeah, I was like as a young, as a young, like young man, like that was really hard for me because I traveled, so I would travel so much and then like also like trying to go home, see family and stuff like that, like it got to the point like after like my second strike, I was afraid to go anywhere.

Speaker 3: 46:29

They're like where you want to go? Nope, cause one of those strikes I like left to where did I go? I think I went. Yeah, I left the OTC to go roller skating on a Sunday and I came, they tested me, they came to test me and I wasn't there and I didn't have my phone on. So I ended up getting the X for that. That's up, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:50

Bowling Cause he was bowling folks, he was bowling Bowling roller skating and stuff like that.

Speaker 3: 46:55

Man, it's nuts, yeah. And another time on the phone. I was on a plane and I lost my phone heading to Germany and I couldn't feel out my whereabouts. And they came and tested me. Then I was like man I always know I'm leaving when they come, you know.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Google. They're just in there, yeah.

Speaker 3: 47:12

But it happens. You know, you, you, you learn from it and it just makes you a responsible person. Like it sucks cause. During that time was also the the time for the 2020 games. You know it got postponed because, of COVID. Yeah and yeah. I was just like. They're like let's talk about that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:32

Let's talk about that area for you with COVID. So 2020, right, so you're out of high school, you're out there, you've actually. But you, 2020 is what? The year I was looking at your credentials, 2020 was a year you, you placed right. Was it 10th at Worlds?

Speaker 3: 47:48

Yeah, so 19, 2019, I placed 10th at Worlds. I be, I be China and I be two Cubans. And then our yeah, john, and the quarterfinals. Yeah, yeah, that's another thing we got to talk about, cause they don't realize how big these brackets are man, yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:05

So let's, let's talk cause I want to talk a little bit about you know cause, covid, and training too, I mean on top of that, that was what was that like for you when? How are you getting back and forth Like, did you have a? Obviously I think the Olympic training center locked down? They got all the high school kids out, I heard then. Then there was like the adult athletes are kind of let go spirit. You know, sporadically what? Where did you wind up going from there once you had to leave the U S Olympic training center?

Speaker 3: 48:28

So, um, the worst part about being suspended by USADA is that you can't wrestle. So yeah, I can't wrestle anybody who is a U? S national team member or competing. So, okay, Okay. So I was like literally off of that.

Speaker 2: 48:44

So but you can get the RTCs or guys that are, you know other none.

Speaker 3: 48:49

No, can't touch nobody. Oh no, yeah, you're sanctioned. You can't, you can't wrestle on the mat, nothing, yeah. At this time in my life, I'm trying to figure out well, how to heck with you. How the heck do you win in a situation like this? Cause, this is terrible. I'm like it's a worry about failure, but, like all my tests I had with USADA, never popped hot for anything. So yeah right, I'm like man it. Like you know, the punishment didn't meet the crime, in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 49:10

And uh, yeah.

Speaker 3: 49:11

So figuring out how to win in this situation. So at that time I was like, um, I'm going to get into the army. I got into the army.

Speaker 2: 49:20

Okay, okay.

Speaker 3: 49:21

Went through basic training during my suspension and everything. So, yep, and it was nearing the end of my suspension once I got known with my AIT and stuff and uh, I got picked up by the WCAP program, the Work Class AFT program.

Speaker 2: 49:33

Okay, okay. What was, what was basic training like for you? How was it? It was funny.

Speaker 3: 49:38

It was. It was hilarious, man, like we were sitting there. We were sitting there getting smoked and I'm like, for people who don't know what getting smoked is it's it's when you're getting punished by your drill sergeant and making you do push-ups, jumping jacks, a bunch of different exercises because you thought it was okay to smile or something. Yeah right, you know, they always say you put them teeth on safe, private, you know maybe? Yeah, it was hard. So it was hilarious to me because, um, these like people that I was in basic training with, like some of them, it looked like they never worked out a day in a life.

Speaker 3: 50:12

Like they um, it was this one kid. He was my friend, his name was um, oh, his name, oh my gosh. Um, I want to say, like the Polish on, like that. Yeah, I was like any kid to Paul from the Paul's shown, like that, like we had a nickname for him. And uh, one time, like he got, we were getting smoked so bad. He went back. He reverted back to his native language and I was like you're killing them. I was just like you're killing those drills, you're making them go back. I'm like he reverted, like he starts speaking English immediately. You know, I was just like, oh my God, like I started dying laughing. I thought it was so funny. And in the middle of like getting, smoked.

Speaker 2: 50:45

Yeah, we're doing like the V of it.

Speaker 3: 50:48

People are like sitting there crying and I'm laughing because this is just hilarious to me. Like you know, we grow up doing this when we were three years old, that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome it was great.

Speaker 2: 51:00

So you got through that fairly easily. You got accepted by the W cap and where. So from there, what happens? Are you on like any type of a probationary type thing? Once they release you from like being able to compete, Things like that? Did they put you on tighter restrictions at all?

Speaker 3: 51:15

Uh, no, not really. It just goes right back to normal. You know, you get your okay. Yeah, you get your V size, like I'm. I'm so on top of it, like, like, if I'm going somewhere travel day, you don't know where you're going to be immediately. Yeah, two travel days, you know.

Speaker 2: 51:28

Right, get the hard location because, like, yeah, that, that, that was a, that was a terrible time I was going to say, knowing that you're that competitive, and then things are going on in the COVID, obviously all the garbage that goes along with that was not making anything any easier. We're um now. I know the um how, if I can remember the guy's name, uh, steph, steph, uh, out of the Army WCAP. I can't remember his, his name, stefanik.

Speaker 3: 51:56

Stefanik was here Are we. No, he's marine Stefanik.

Speaker 2: 52:00

Yes, yes, he's marine, that's right. That's right, okay, yeah that's I guess I and I know you guys all have your own training, you know your own training facilities, but do you do you guys wind up training together sometimes? As far as the the military side of it, are you guys gonna have your own camps?

Speaker 3: 52:14

Yeah, it's more so like, Like we will train together if we're like at the Olympic training center. So okay. I think for Carson we're at where we got our own room and stuff. We work out there. But uh, right now we got we're getting closer with the OTC now, so like sometimes we go over there and we train with them. So yeah. Everybody wrestles, everybody obviously so yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:35

So what are your eyes on as soon as you get the army w cap? What are you, what are your goals? I mean obviously a world team, things like that, to be able to, you know, compete. But what, what did you have to get through, like, what were the steps you had to get through to kind of get to that Because you had to train man? I mean things that slowed down right.

Speaker 3: 52:51

So where are you trying to get to. So things for me, like sort of kind of just like stop, like, in a way, like I'm 25 years old right now but I lost two years of wrestling. So like I'm like in my mind I'm 23, like you know, so I'm 23 and I haven't touched another person, let alone worked, or any Greco, so it was foreign to me and, uh, I don't, I say it's like a, it's a good and bad, because, like it's fun to learn right, so, right, yeah. So there I'm in the program and like I'm relearning all the things that I missed before and it's just like. It's just like wow, like you know, that could have been the difference maker when I was like actually competing.

Speaker 3: 53:30

You know, from that time oh yeah, from W cap program, they got great wrestlers. You know, they got Jamil Byers, sean Lewis, spencer, mando Hodge, bruce Robinson. Like they got good coaches, like you know good coaches, and they they're teaching me things. Like one of the things I struggled with early on was, uh, learning how to pumble. So, okay, yeah, like pummeling is hard, like people don't realize, you know, to do something like that for six minutes. It seems so simple, but it's not. Yeah, you fighting another. You know top 1% of the world, dude.

Speaker 2: 54:00

And that knows how to compete at it.

Speaker 3: 54:01

Yeah, you got to stay in the phone booth, dude. You know, let those look the second. That arm breaks man under hook. Meat hooks are coming, that's what they say. The meat hooks are coming, yeah, and now you giving up ones, you giving up twos, but uh, being able to pick their brain and then, um, being able to wrestle high caliber athletes. You know the uh right when Grecco Roman started like going downhill, um, the OTC ended up like, uh, we got they got rid of, like all their veteran athletes.

Speaker 3: 54:28

So it was like there was a time period where, um, I was wrestling bands every day and then expected to go overseas and, like you know, competing, bring back a medal. It's just like you know, man, bands are cool. You know like I'll, they restrict the training is cool and everything, but not every day. No, right, you know, at that point I was just like Relying off of athletic ability alone. So, yeah, you know instinct, almost you know I'm like man. Yeah, yeah, you get so gasped out. You don't realize the importance of having good partners until something like that happens to you for sure, for sure.

Speaker 2: 54:58

Yeah and now, when you, when you're, when you're training at the, the, the army, w cap, what? Where were were there differences that you noticed in how they train versus anybody else? You know how, like in college, wrestling like they talk about I was like their room is like this, but Penn States is like this. Were there any differences that you were able to gather tons of knowledge there? Obviously, were there any differences you were able to gather from their room versus where maybe you were learning somewhere else, like even at the OTC? You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 55:27

Yeah, um, the professionalism, um okay, completely different. You know you're dealing with people in the military, so we're all about right, being being places on time, acting professional and uh, everyone there is qualified to be there. You know you can't just get into the world class athlete program. You have to be qualified to get in there and, uh, we have benchmarks that we have to hit each year to stay within the program.

Speaker 2: 55:50

So everybody, yeah, everybody.

Speaker 3: 55:53

Wow uh, yeah. So you, you yeah, you're working to be there.

Speaker 2: 55:59

So, um, what are those? What were some of the requirements? What did you have to meet?

Speaker 3: 56:04

um, I don't know if I'm allowed to say yeah, I mean, I was, you know, I can tell you we got benchmark. I can tell you we got benchmarks and stuff. But yeah, yeah, it's like you know. Talking about the world class athlete program, um, okay, most of it's like limited. I gotta talk about the people who were in it. I can talk about how great they are, but you know, yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:23

As far as the stuff between the coaches and um the people who are, who are running the show, the higher ups, and I don't want to make any of them.

Speaker 1: 56:29

I don't make any of them. I don't make any of them at all.

Speaker 2: 56:31

It's all for a reason, it's all for a purpose. Yeah, with with the um, with the accomplishments that you already had and knowing that you still have plenty of time right to compete and you know, obviously you went through the coven and all that other stuff. But were you, were you kind of in Already in the mix as far as like world teams, because you I mean because of the accomplishments you already had, where you're already in the mix of being like top 123 for world team, things like that. As far as how old are you now? By then you 23s would have been in the window, right.

Speaker 3: 57:01

Yeah, so, uh, yeah, I was. I was pretty much already qualified. I did a lot of good things already made world. Yeah, okay placing internationally during your world champion.

Speaker 2: 57:11

Uh, so yeah.

Speaker 3: 57:11

I was pretty much qualified hey, anybody watching you to meet those qualifications you know. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 57:18

We, our room was. We had a great room. We have a great room right now in the w-cap program. Everybody's there and, hey, you, you just noticed that, um, that the diversity of the room makes the room so, like we have people who completely different wrestling styles from myself and my like I said, like I'm pretty good at adapting and learning like on the spot, so being in a wrestle, I do, is like that, like it prepares you for whatever the heck is going on.

Speaker 3: 57:44

So my first year, it was just sort of kind of more. So, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna make this world team and we're gonna try to get as much as we can out of this year, because, like, I can tell that, um, I had some catching up to do. Sure, I had to catch another. You just took two years off, and, you know, you think about the beat everybody up. You know, be a world like you. I wake up and I tell myself every day I'm gonna be a world champ. You know, I'm training him to be a world champ, and, yeah, that first year like, yeah, it showed me how much catching up I had to do, sure and sure.

Speaker 3: 58:17

What I learned, though, is that it wasn't as much as I thought, because I'm I'm a natural, like I work hard, like people. People think I'm lazy because, like the way I pull up in the room, like I have like a little the baggy singlet and stuff like that, like, yeah, my, my, my warm-up jog isn't as hard, necessarily as hard as everybody else, they don't. They don't know, like this is how I get my mind right for for the day. You know, um, I feel like people can sometimes take like things a little too seriously and that's like their downfall Right, like you got to remember. It's like it's all one big of a game and you know you're gonna have days where you get your Butt kick. You don't have some days where you're kicking the butt. You know.

Speaker 2: 58:51

Just, they take everything like with a grain of salt, you know, and it's hard to stay positive too. You know, in in a situation of like where you're healthy you know, covid came around and all that stuff came around but you're healthy and you're not able to compete and it's like I had been pulling my hair out too, like just going crazy, like I I need to yell. It's I need to wrestle something somewhere. I don't care if it's a bear, I don't care if it's had a broccoli, I just need to wrestle something, right? So you get in the room.

Speaker 2: 59:18

You have all these high-level athletes, especially in greco, that you that you're surrounded with and the knowledge that you're surrounded with. Did you find that you were, and because you even mentioned it before that you were picking up things on, things that you had learned earlier and and brought them? You're like, oh man, maybe this is what was missing. What was one of those things that you were, that you were working on? Yeah, I think you're talking about pumbling and things like that but what were the one other like, some of the simpler things that you picked up on that were like bam changed the game.

Speaker 3: 59:44

Yeah, so pumbling is, like you know, greco roman is too, just someone say, the biggest part of like you know, feet wrestling and greco roman wrestling. So, yeah, the pumbling aspect of it. You know Wet wrestling versus dry wrestling what I tell the new guys about because, like it was one of the things that tc used to always talk about with me and I'm like I really don't get the wet wrestling, dry wrestle thing. I'm just gonna go out here and wrestle. But as you get older you start understanding a little bit more like you know things you do when you're wet versus when you're dry. You know, yep, um, wet being sweat and like what does it do? Talking about, uh, double water? Yeah, yeah, what's just funny. Tc used to like make us wrestle, like the sprinkles will come on at the football field at the high school in Colorado and he'll make us pumbling it. No kidding, yeah, it would be so cold and I was like, hey, this dude is crazy yeah this dude is crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:00:34

That's like navy seal training for greco roman wrestling.

Speaker 3: 1:00:36

That's what that is. Oh yeah, but they need we, didn't they? He didn't. Sugar cookie is he didn't throw sand on us.

Speaker 2: 1:00:41

No, he didn't.

Speaker 3: 1:00:43

He didn't throw sand on us. Um, so, uh, yeah, like things like that, and there's like, uh, you know, mad awareness and like knowing where you are in a match, you know okay, yeah, opposed to like later on in the match and stuff like that, even out, like those are still like things you got to practice every day. You know the best world, they're practicing it every day. I'm telling you right now, I'm practicing it every day, every day, every day. It's not Like you know you be down on points and you can. You can mentally like zone yourself out instead of like okay, what do you gotta do now? You know you gotta start chipping away. It's just, it is what it is One's and two's. You gotta start chipping away, so do you?

Speaker 2: 1:01:15

do you get to? Because you've been at the army w cat for a while, right, it's uh two, three years, I think, right somewhere in there.

Speaker 2: 1:01:23

So, being that you're out there, the, the training and the knowledge deuce guys still go out, like I see that you were out at Illinois for a little bit right Training out there. Do you guys do? Do they? Because I don't understand how the olympic athlete situation works really. Do they a lot you certain times of the year. Well, hey, if you want to go out and go train, you know, maybe you go find a place I don't the California, arizona, whatever. Do they give you timeframes to be able to kind of go on your own and train places? Is that part of your schedule? Like, how does that work out for you?

Speaker 3: 1:01:54

Well, um, we got the best room in the country. So, like, if you want to train out the best, you stay at the day. Yeah program. We have five people in the Greco world team Yep this year, so that's huge, so okay.

Speaker 3: 1:02:05

Yeah, for sure, yeah, we got like we have the best room. If you want to go train somewhere else, you can take leave. That's one of the okay, though three does is like pretty much vacation days Okay, and you can go do what you want with that. Other than that, like, most of our training camps are already planned out by the General manager of the US.

Speaker 3: 1:02:26

Yeah, everything's already planned out. Like you know, you go to this country gonna train here for this amount of time and Greco trips on short. You know you're over there for like a month, month and half is sure you know. Sometimes you don't even know what you're going, you just make up with it in a room.

Speaker 2: 1:02:41

I what for?

Speaker 3: 1:02:45

a little while. But yeah, not every day, oh it's something, it's something, and I'm I'm so honest with myself so, like I'm a natural complainer, I will tell my coach is exactly how I'm feeling, before I go out there and do anything.

Speaker 2: 1:02:57

That's good. Hey, I need to get off your chest.

Speaker 3: 1:03:00

I need to let them know. This is I'm feeling terrible right now, but I'm going out here for you. Yeah, you know, Going out for everything you've done for me. This is my best effort, so.

Speaker 2: 1:03:12

Where? Where did you get you started throwing it? Harvey twisters? Where it gives dude, you're. You're in so many highlight reels like a ton of them, it's all it's. If it's not every match, it's every other match that you're in. Something happens where they can make a highlight out of it. Where, other than those soup hood, of course, we love to see a suplexed guy what's your favorite throw?

Speaker 3: 1:03:34

My next throw, man. My next throw is my favorite throw, because look is either gonna be great or we don't have to go back to the drawing board.

Speaker 2: 1:03:43

Well, what were some of the best? The best, I guess, events that you put to put a show on it that you think were the most memorable Do you like? What do you which one sticks out in your mind the most? As far as it doesn't even have to be one that you Won you know what would so especially maybe it was a best throw, you had tournament but what kind of events stick out in your mind the most recently, I would say the past two, three years that you've been to that were like, yeah, that was an awesome time.

Speaker 3: 1:04:07

My recent silver medal in Hungary. That was a good time for me. Nice and then my all my junior world's experiences. Like I think, yeah, junior world is like where, where I really, like you know, got my, my stamp or like put it on the show. Yeah, I'm a creative person, like, and Most of the times on most of my moves, like I'll have a dream about it and then I'll go to the rest of room and I'll try it out. Yeah, but like, I used to like be my most creative when I was in the room wrestling with Ray Vaughn Perkins. All the time, okay, okay, I'm like a ray I had like this crazy idea we should try this and then, like we'll start wrestling. And then he had him being older, more experienced guy. He'd be like, okay, yeah, that's good, but you might want to try it like this, and like we just like start making stuff up.

Speaker 2: 1:04:46

That's awesome. Yeah, oh yeah, man.

Speaker 2: 1:04:48

Well, that's I think people like Ben Askren talks about, like seeing the shadows and you know wrestling around in his head and figures and whatnot. I mean it goes to show that the guys that that get it, that that really in there's a lot of guys that have passion for the sport but like it just happens, like it happens either in their head. You envision it. I did the same thing with soccer. I'd watch one guy do it. I saw it in my head. I would go out on the soccer field and try to do it to at any angle, yeah, from the left, from the right, from anything. Just I kept doing it until I got it right.

Speaker 2: 1:05:20

When you, when you start getting to the, you know, into the senior level competitions, do you see yourself, as you know, maybe an Olympic champ is, is championship, is coming up in the near future? Here I mean right now. The path that, watching what you've done in the past, I'd say I don't know year, year and a half, has been pretty damn good, you know. So what? Who's your toughest competition so far that you, that you find yourself in front of, I'd say here and there, every you know these international competitions you go to. Who's your toughest competition right now?

Speaker 3: 1:05:53

Right now Arjo Bajon Suleiman off. He's okay. He just took silver at the world championships. Yep, the first time we wrestled was a better match. The second time it was one of those things where you have a strategy for somebody and it just falls through the cracks.

Speaker 3: 1:06:07

I'm still working, yeah, and like he, he's a top caliber wrestler. So, yeah, I realize that Gregor Roman is fast, like people think Roman is slow. Yeah, can look and then look away and it's only two fours in here, out of there, right, like that's my motto like two fours and I can go home. So, yeah, yeah, like I'm, if I'm trying to get out of there, like I'm looking for out to out of throw you. But you know you had to, you had to be able to wrestle six minutes. So, yeah, pretty much, being able to stand out there for six minutes and then you know, picking and choosing, letting the dude open up, it's a difference maker in a Gregor Roman wrestling.

Speaker 3: 1:06:43

When I was younger I used to just like try to highlight everybody. And you know, um Ivan the suplex guy, you told me he was, like you know, right now your wrestling style is like a hand grenade and you know you throw it one time, boom and there is done. Yeah, like a rifle, you want to be able to keep shooting, sure, good point. So that was one of the ways I pretty much I changed and I grew developmentured is a Gregor Roman wrestler, um, but uh, he's I'll say he's like one of my toughest opponents right now, because it's like a style matchup thing. He's, he's sneaky, I like it, I like the way he wrestles. It's fun, it's fun to play with we wrestle. They camp a lot too, and so, okay, yeah, so it was one of those things.

Speaker 3: 1:07:23

Um, next, uh, axel MacMoodoff super fun to wrestle, yeah, super fun Russell, yeah, he puts people away, man, he puts me away.

Speaker 2: 1:07:34

You wrestled him a couple times before. Wasn't 2021 right now? Yeah, we're going to one.

Speaker 3: 1:07:39

right now he beat me uh, my last year of juniors and I beat him the year before my last year.

Speaker 2: 1:07:42

Okay, that's right yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:07:44

Yeah, so he's a super fun dude to wrestle. Um, yeah, he's sneaky. It's one of those things is like I don't know if you, if you watch like spider-man or anything yeah, I go when Peter Parker like runs in the miles and rallies and they're like it's like dude, you're like, you're like me dude, like it's one of those things, man.

Speaker 3: 1:07:59

So you like, you know you're always on your toes and you know, always sort of on edge, because you like, you never know, like it feels like no force, and then next, you know, you're flying.

Speaker 2: 1:08:08

That's right, that's right. So what, um, what competitions you got coming up next?

Speaker 3: 1:08:13

I got um nationals after nationals. Uh, croatia is the grand prix, I believe. And then out the Croatia getting ready to qualify this way for the Olympics, of the pan Pan American qualifier.

Speaker 2: 1:08:26

Yeah, yeah, all right man.

Speaker 3: 1:08:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:28

Well, you know, we've had you on for a little over an hour here, man.

Speaker 3: 1:08:32

It didn't even feel like an hour. It didn't even feel like an hour.

Speaker 2: 1:08:35

That's the best part, because I Just like hearing the stories and the stuff that you guys had to talk about in and, honestly, it, if anybody takes anything away from anything that you got, you know, the stories that you shared, that's that. You, it just you have the creative like I guess inspiration on a mad that you show is like it's, it's insane You're, you're the way that you move the, the way that you're able to just have explosive, explosive shots. You know as far as is, uh, uh, as a Greco-Roman guy goes, and the way that you throw it's, you're, oh, and you're pumped every single time, every time you go out and compete. It's fun to watch you. So, with with you kind of getting into the, you know the groove of the season, we're gonna be watching you. We're gonna be seeing the exact what's going on. We're gonna be sharing everything that we can about you because it's fun watching you. So when you guys uh, get into the Wisconsin area, feel free to reach out because we'll uh, we'll definitely be able to get you over here.

Speaker 2: 1:09:35

Yeah, hell, yeah, I love to yeah, it will get you in, the, get you in the pit here. We can actually do like a live episode right here. So, um, you got any plugs? You got something you want to plug? Are you got any sponsors going on? What's going on with that?

Speaker 3: 1:09:47

Son, I'm military man W Cat world-class athlete program. Thank you guys for the support. Thank you guys, yours, you guys make this possible. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you, you you're great. I'm glad that you, you reached out to me and we got this done because, like you know, people don't, people don't know us. You know, like, really, like you know they Heroes you know well.

Speaker 2: 1:10:10

Right, you guys are such great athletes. I mean, like you said, people think that Greco is like so slow, it's not man. I mean it's all, it's all upper body, and sometimes you don't see the action that's going on by the chest trying to get, you know, some hand control.

Speaker 3: 1:10:24

Yeah, dude, yeah it's, it's nuts, like you know. I want more people to uh, ranch out. I want people to know me. I want more people to know other Greco Roman athletes. Give it a try, because even if you don't want to be a Greco Roman wrestler, you know, be an all-around wrestler, like don't be one of those guys who gets an underhook and looks like they're ticklish. You know they like right. Like they, they laugh when they getting pushed out of bounds. You know that's right. And if you have a throw in your bag pocket, you're never out of a match either. So that's the other thing, never, never.

Speaker 2: 1:10:52

We were just at a folk-styled high school tournament and I'll tell you what the some of the kids that were behind that was. What they're going to is some type of throw to get a kid on their back, you know, so it's, it's all part of it. And you know Liam trains. He goes out to buy Lucas and trains, but he hasn't gone in about a year. But he goes out. He would go out there to train because it's still important. I mean that hand fight. If you learn on a hand fight, greco style, you're gonna kill it in folk-style man.

Speaker 3: 1:11:17

Game changer, game changer, game changer. But you can live with someone in a dirt.

Speaker 2: 1:11:21

Yeah right, exactly exactly so when, uh, when you guys, when you guys wind up traveling, do you guys always go as a team? Do you guys travel together like that? Like, are you guys kind of go individually?

Speaker 3: 1:11:35

So sometimes it can be individual and then we just link up at the next airport, usually overseas. Frank for me Something like that, yeah, um, nice, it's just easier that way, you know, opposed to trying to get everybody Over until, like one day, unless we have a camp and then everybody just travels from um the same state, but Um, yeah you guys are.

Speaker 2: 1:11:52

You guys are always using the right in the same spot, anyways, when it comes to training camps and everything like that. So yeah, but hey, man, nothing but luck to you. I'm gonna talk to you for just a second once we get done here, but I'm gonna play the music that we do this fancy thing and make it look all pretty the credit.

Speaker 2: 1:12:08

Yeah, but I appreciate you being on and I know we I mean but I don't know how many people I don't pay attention to because we're all in conversation but this will be live out to not not live, but this will be put out in audio form, uh, to be out sometime this, uh, this week yet, so, but uh, share that. That's gonna be on spotify, apple podcast, you name it. Um, I'm gonna give a shout out to my sponsors 920 hat company, appleton tattoo. Got my back tattoo from those guys. So, uh, much appreciated. Again, we're gonna talk for a second before everybody else. We are out. Peace you.