#103 Madison Hollenbeck: From Theater Kid to Wrestling Mentor!

Madison Hollenbeck shares her unique journey through wrestling, emphasizing the vital roles of managers and coaches in the sport. With insights on personal growth, mentorship, and the challenges facing smaller collegiate programs, she inspires listeners to engage more deeply with wrestling and support local initiatives. 

• Discusses early interest in wrestling 
• Explores the importance of mentorship in sports 
• Highlights roles of managers and support staff 
• Shares experiences in college wrestling and writing 
• Analyzes challenges facing smaller collegiate wrestling programs 
• Advocates for grassroots support within communities

Below is a list of articles written by Madison at Intermat! Enjoy!

https://intermatwrestle.com/authors/madison-hollenbeck-r71/

Chapters

• 3:02 The Journey of a Wrestling Manager
• 11:01 Family Influence in Wrestling Development
• 22:27 Navigating College Wrestling Responsibilities
• 27:39 College Experience and Wrestling Management
• 31:41 Wrestling Career and Writing Beginnings
• 37:38 Passion for Wrestling Styles and Coaching
• 43:56 From Wrestling Fan to Coach
• 55:23 Impact of Coaching on Athletes' Ethics
• 1:03:21 Challenges in College Athletics Decision-Making
• 1:12:43 Encouraging Readers to Explore Intermat

Transcript

Speaker 1: 3:02

Thank you, thank you boom we're live just like that.

Speaker 2: 3:17

It's like I told you, it's just instant, so I know right. So everybody, welcome back. We are live on uh x and we're live on youtube and I want to thank everybody for tuning in. Who is tuning in? It's a busy night. There's a lot of opening uh weekends this weekend, so a lot of people probably watching wrestling at this point, but I'm gonna watch it later on because, uh, we have a great guest on right now. I know you as a freelance uh writer for intermat that's how I originally know you, but there's so much more um, it is madison hollenbach. Thank you for joining me, appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 3:49

Thank you very much yeah so there's, you've been dubbed the everything girl. We'll get into that right. But just kind of an interesting thing it's almost from the background of what I've heard. It sounds like you started out as a. I went there as a manager, then I was in charge of social media, then I was in charge of helping these guys with classes, then I was in charge of so we're going to lead into that, because it takes a lot of balls to take care of all that stuff with a team full of guys. So let's start out first off and, just like we do with everybody, the beginning of everything that you you remember growing up. Obviously I don't know how many sports you played when you're growing up, but what, what were some of the things that you, that you brought to the table before you got into wrestling. What were you doing?

Speaker 3: 4:36

um, well, before wrestling I wasn't doing anything, really like I wasn't. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't do sports as a child. I tried here and there, tried gymnastics wasn't for me okay. One thing I did stick with was musical theater. I was a musical theater kid for a few years, yeah, and then that kind of ended. I didn't really like the direction it was going in. Um, so I and the boys in my class were like rest, that like they were all starting to wrestle because it hit. It hit junior high and you were allowed to wrestle in seventh, eighth grade and they were. And then there were girls that were already doing the stats and I was like I wonder how that works. And he was the coach. So I was like, hey, how's this work? And he was like don't worry about it, we have enough people to help out, you don't need to help out. I was like well, well, I want to. And he was like well, you're not going to.

Speaker 3: 5:37

And we finally hit my freshman year of high school and they were down a girl and I was like hey, I I'm not doing anything and he was like no, there's too many boys and you should just focus on your homework because your grades more. I'm not gonna say he's wrong he said too many late nights.

Speaker 3: 6:04

He was like you don't need to spend your weekends with other 14 year old boys, it just doesn't need to happen. I was like, well, I won't be in it for the boys, like I don't care about the boys, I just want to, I just want to be there. I, I just want to be involved. When he was like he's like I'll talk to your grandmother and then we'll discuss. So my girl was like you want to do this? And I was like yes, please. She was like I don't know, madison, your uncle says there's too many, there's too many boys. I mean just aren't comfortable. Like you're gonna spend every weekend with all these boys. I said yeah, but I don't care about the boys. She's like how do you not care about the boys when you're there for the boys? I was like I don't know, it just somehow works.

Speaker 3: 6:49

Okay, it's not that so it is that, but it's not that exactly, and so I had to ask the girl that was doing it if I could join her. We were kind of friends but we weren't that close. She was a grade below me. Well, she was like, oh yeah, that's fine, she was like whatever. And then I finally everyone said yes, everyone agreed I was in. And then that's where it started.

Speaker 2: 7:19

That's where it starts. So it's not an easy task. I mean just thinking of the managers that they have and I kind of mentioned those before that are here in Kekona and then I think of the boys that are part of the team, like, oh my God, god, that's gonna be absolutely horrible. But I think at the same point though, too, I think some you know most of the guys understand that if you mess around with the team manager, there's a lot of things that could happen that you probably wouldn't even notice before it hit you in the face. It's like you know, like, oh, you need your stuff washed. Oh, that's nice, how's it must?

Speaker 3: 7:54

must be nice to want you know well, it just because when I, when I was doing it, we were only called sack girls. Like everyone else I was meeting, they're like they're the team managers, whatever, but I was just a sack girl, like they didn't want any more part of me than just me taking the stats, like I was strictly there numbers only, the score only. Okay.

Speaker 3: 8:19

And I think that's kind of where it started for you, where we're. Like I liked all the wrestling knowledge, like I was looking up like the other teams and their records and the kids that were ranking a state or on PA wrestlingcom, like I was looking at that and it intrigued me and my uncle, like he was always in the boy's ears and in my ear, like rankings don't matter, everyone is beatable. Like if that kid walked out in a black singlet and you walked out in a black singlet, you wouldn't even know who that kid was. The internet didn't exist, you wouldn't know what he was ranked, he wouldn't even be ranked anything. Like what does it matter? And I was like that. I was like that's a, that's a fair point, that's a good point and um. But when I first started and I'm serious about it he was like, all right, then you come over to my house, I'm gonna put on one of alex's which is my cousin old matches, we're gonna score it. I was like, okay, so well. Like how does?

Speaker 3: 9:18

it work and he was like no, you're gonna sit there and figure it out. He didn't tell me how to do it. I had to sit there and figure it out for myself. I said, okay, he's like just watch the rest, oh man and I was like okay. And I was like, well, he's holding up all these like hand signals. He's like, yeah, that's. I was like okay, well, I don't know that well what is it though?

Speaker 3: 9:42

and then I had to learn the um, like pin times and everything else, and he was like, well, it's not backwards, it's forward, you gotta count. I was like, oh gosh, and he's like, I know you're not good at it so I had to learn. I had to learn how to be good at math. That was like the only thing I was good at math about yeah, hey, that's all that mattered really.

Speaker 3: 10:04

I mean, that's in in the in the grand scheme of things, yeah, so after that, then let's just I think like the little, the little things of the knowledge teams and the coaches, and who was a better team and who wasn't that good, and who.

Speaker 3: 10:19

So you really got into the coaching side of it almost yeah, like it was just a taste of it right away, you know yeah, I mean, I will say like now I coach, but yeah my all my coaching knowledge comes from mostly my uncle. Like he taught me everything I needed to know. He still tells me everything I need to know. Like he he's there, like I I call him up. I'm like I had this issue and he was like, well, do you remember this? And I was like, yes, and so we talk a lot about every, every issue you can. You can imagine.

Speaker 2: 11:01

That's cool. So I mean, and especially, it's your uncle, right? I mean it's a, it's not only an advantage, but you get to spend some time with a family member, like I mean, regardless of who it is mom, dad, uncle, cousins I mean everybody's got a different family dynamic, but you're able to, you're able to, number one hang out with a family member. But you're also getting the insight of, like the average kid wouldn't be able to get right because you are his niece. So he's giving you this insight. He puts your feet to the fire with keeping score. I mean that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 11:29

That's, I mean, that's a way different perspective than me asking you know, like Nick Seriano, like, what was it like growing up? Oh, me, asking you know, like Nick Seriano, like what was it like growing up? Oh, man, I wrestle, I beat crap. You're like no, I learned which coach did what, what type of strategy they did here. It's like all right man. So, as you're, as you're starting to learn all that from him, were you noticing that you were starting to click with like, okay, oh wait, we got to do this? And then you were like hey, hey, we got to. Hey, hey, hold on, we gotta do this. He's like you're right, you're right. Were you able to help that way?

Speaker 3: 11:57

well in my head. I did a lot of coaching um I did a lot of sideline coaching in my head because I didn't dare say it out loud okay, okay, okay understood, totally understood, yeah one time I said something out loud about a kid needing blood time.

Speaker 3: 12:15

Kid was like gushing blood. Ref wasn't calling it. I'm standing up at the stat table. You're like blood, blood, blood. And the next day at school all the boys were like your uncle was so pissed that you were yelling that. I was like, well, guess what? I feel like if he was that mad he would have said something to me about it. And he didn't. He's not that bad. But then shortly thereafter he reminded me to not do that ever again. I was like, okay, all right, got it tight ship, tight ship.

Speaker 2: 12:44

I can. I can appreciate that. That's all right, I mean, because otherwise he let things out of control and everybody's telling him what to do, like then everybody else is gonna be able to tell him what to do or expect to be able to. So I get it, I get it. So you, you're learning pretty well, you're. You're learning a different angle and it's kind of a side that I didn't get into until, like, I mean, I wrestled, but I didn't understand wrestling Right.

Speaker 2: 13:04

I mean, if I watched a match, sure, I could keep score, but as far as how things are now, it took, you know, getting my youngest Liam, into wrestling and finally seeing him like Holy crap, like I don't remember this, like what happened to just a double leg and a half Nelson? Why are we doing all this rolling around? What's this mad time stuff? So it's, it's been, it's been a different ride as far as just kind of learning. And now I'm to the point. I'm right back to that point, because now what he's doing, I don't, I have no clue. I'm trying to pay people to coach them. It's like, hey, can you come along just to do this? I don't want to mess them up like all the work that coaches and stuff put in. So were you kind of learning a little bit of um, kind of the the ropes of, of like how guys, how like each guy can last on your team, like, oh, I know, this guy can only make it for two and a half periods yeah, after that we gotta, we gotta do.

Speaker 2: 13:53

This was that kind of helpful going into high school. Then were you doing the same thing in high school?

Speaker 3: 13:58

yeah, I mean I definitely caught on to like who was the better ones on the team. I didn't really know like what when I started. I didn't know what made you good at wrestling. Like how were you good like? And then like, listening to my uncle have the conversations about wrestling like I was like all right, like people who can last longer on the mat are better.

Speaker 3: 14:21

People who can stay on their feet. The one thing that's always been drilled in my head is when you're in neutral and the guys go to put their elbows on their knees and they're just there my uncle drilled in my head. If I ever see that, that means you're lazy. If you're lazy, I'm not coaching you. So I used to tell my girls last year, like I'm just letting you know, if you put your hands on your knees at any point during your match, I'm walking out of the corner, I'm not coaching you like.

Speaker 2: 14:48

That's lazy wrestling I can respect that. I can respect and I expect it's 110, right, it's the same, because I again, I don't know the technique, but I at least expect 110% on it. I mean, that means going the whole distance right, not just hanging out with your, your you know you're leaning on your knees and stuff like that. So I agree with that wholeheartedly. So what? What type of? As you? Obviously you start. You were doing the same thing in high school.

Speaker 3: 15:20

What was your high school team like? Was that? Were you starting to climb into a little bit of a different role in high school? Um, it kind of just all stayed the same. I didn't really I didn't know what it was like outside of high school in wrestling I was kind of into it.

Speaker 3: 15:28

Um that's, I went to my first college duel, which is at penn state I'm only three hours in penn state, uh with my best friend. At the time her dad was a season ticket holder and we went and I was like, oh, this will be cool, like I like wrestling. So and at that point I just like wrestling and I was like, oh yeah, I like wrestling, that'd be cool. So we went and it was unreal, environment, unreal. I was like, oh, this is amazing, this many people like wrestling. Like it was so crazy. And you saw people of all ages there. You saw little kids, you saw older people, you saw people my age, you saw parents and children. Like it was crazy and like they won in an absolute blowout.

Speaker 2: 16:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 16:17

And I was just like oh, oh, my gosh, this is awesome. I remember Bo Nickel was on my ticket and I kept that ticket forever. I'm pretty sure I still have that ticket in my closet. I saved it forever. And I was like I love Penn State wrestling. Now I love it.

Speaker 2: 16:37

That's the best part, I think, of the sport in general is just because, especially when you get into it and you don't, you don't have to ever have to compete in it or even done well in it to love it. I mean, because watching good wrestling there's nothing better than that. I would rather watch a good wrestling than watch a good football game, right, like that's kind of where I'm at with it. It's just more exciting, there's more action, there's more you know it's one-on-one and things like that. But then you also start kind of just like we used to. We were iowa fans for a while. I mean, now liam goes, he's committed to virginia, so it's it's different. But because I grew up with brands brothers, right, like that's that was my era, saying carver hawkeye was the loudest place I've ever seen in my entire life, right, so it's the same thing. Once you feel that it's almost like when you win your first tournament when you're young, like it's like you got that taste of blood and you want to keep going now, and like you got it in your blood and it never stops. And I think I've been that way just as far as a fan, you know, ever since you know starting liam and even his older brother in wrestling.

Speaker 2: 17:36

And as, as you grew, you kind of grew up in a unique area, obviously for wrestling, I mean the, the East coast is where it's at. Man Like you can't get any better. I would say from Ohio all the way over to you know, the Atlantic, that's kind of where it's at for wrestling. So where, where did you wind up getting? You said your first college um duel was at, uh, um, at penn state. Where was your first like national, like event that you ever went to? What was that?

Speaker 3: 18:03

my first national event was probably nationals 2023, that was oh really yeah, that was the first one, it took me that took me that long I have. I had been watching nationals on TV since I knew that was a thing for years prior to that.

Speaker 3: 18:24

And but I was like that'd be cool to go to. I was like, how do I get there? And I remember like when it was in Pittsburgh and everyone was going and I saw like all my snapchat stories, oh that'd be so cool, and I just like, and then it kind of just went away like I didn't think about it after, and then I was graduating high school and I was like I want to keep this wrestling thing up.

Speaker 3: 18:51

okay, then I didn't know what it was like in college, like Like I didn't have anyone else. I mean, my cousin wrestled at Teal college, which is a division three school in Greenville, and, um, I went to a few of his matches when he got there and I thought that was cool too. I was like, oh, this is cool.

Speaker 2: 19:13

And.

Speaker 3: 19:13

I even looked for, like do they have sack girls? Like I was like, oh, what is what is this all like? What do you do in college with wrestling when you're me? Um, and I didn't really know. And then I decided that I was going to go to edinburgh and I emailed the edinburgh staff at the time, which was flynn and moore and court, and they they said yes, and then I was like, okay, great, um, I don't know what this entails, but we're gonna. We're gonna do it. And then I find out days later they're all leaving. I was like, oh, what do I do now?

Speaker 3: 19:53

is that when you left for west yeah, you left for west virginia, and then yeah, weeks after that they hired hill and diploma and I was like, hey, um, can I have my job? They promised it to me and I just want to know if I can keep it yeah, for sure right. They were like, yeah, just come for an interview. I was like, oh, like a legit interview, okay, um, so I scheduled that went in the heat of the borough summer, um, because get a little hot does it get very hot over there.

Speaker 3: 20:28

Um, it also tends to get very cold, but I interviewed, they asked me my experience and I was like I've only ever took stats. I don't know what you guys are looking for, but that's all I've ever done. Um, but I'm a quick learner. I will give myself that I'm very organized.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Need it. You're going to need it.

Speaker 3: 20:50

Yeah. So they're like oh, that'll work out perfectly. I was like great, and then I started classes and I started helping there, and that's when we started all this social media back up, because it had been really dated to like 2011 really I was like yes, I was 11 years old in 2011 yeah, yeah I cannot help you with this part, so I did that and learn how to email high school um counselors for um transcript stuff yeah, wow just you, you're just thrown right into it.

Speaker 2: 21:34

It wasn't just a here. Here's a couple you know athletic things you're gonna deal with, you're gonna. You're contacting people, you're doing all kinds of admin work. So just a quick question what was did you pick? Edinburgh, just out of proximity, was it close to you?

Speaker 3: 21:48

I looked at a lot of schools. Um yeah, my grandparents were very nice um helping with college tuition oh, very nice and they were like all right, so alex went to teal.

Speaker 3: 22:02

And that's a private school, you have to pick something cheaper. I said, okay, so, because when I left high school, I wanted to move to new york city. I wanted to be a journalist at the new York Times and I was going to live in the smack dab middle of the city. That was the goal, that was the plan, that was what I was doing. No one was changing my mind so writing's your thing, that's.

Speaker 2: 22:25

That's where this because that's I was going to start asking that too. Writing is your thing, okay, okay, so it all starts to come together, okay writing has always been my thing.

Speaker 3: 22:33

I've always been writing. I used okay, I used to sit in my kitchen. When I was little I would buy notepads every sunday with my grandfather not toys notepads, really and I would sit at the table be like how do you spell this, how do you spell this? And we would just spell words for hours and I my notebook, random words holy cow and okay and you're taking it all in, you're soaking all that in.

Speaker 3: 22:57

Yeah, and I was a word guru and then, yeah, so I graduated and then I went to college and they were like, oh, here's all these responsibilities. I hope you know how to do them. If not, sorry, because I don't know how to do them either.

Speaker 2: 23:19

So what was your first year doing it? What was the most difficult thing that you ran across that year? What was the what really kind of threw you for a loop and you're like I don't know if I want to do this.

Speaker 3: 23:30

Well, I actually did get into it I don't know if I want to do this and I did leave for a little bit because it was.

Speaker 3: 23:38

It was a lot, and I would say like not even the wrestling part was a lot. It was just like I don't know how a lot of college athletes do it, because from my point of view it was hard just for me to go to college and then start a completely different life, like everything you were living before. None of that matters, no one cares about it, it doesn't matter. Your life literally starts completely over. It's like it happens so fast. You have no idea what you're doing and I had no idea what I was doing and I had no idea what I was doing and I felt alone but like super surrounded by all of my people at the same time. So it was a really weird in between feeling and it did get to be a lot and I was like socially and mentally and emotionally and even physically, like it was just a lot, and so I did leave and I was like I can't really handle all of this at once.

Speaker 2: 24:42

It's a lot. It was a lot Cause, like I said, just knowing what the high school girls are dealing with, I can only imagine.

Speaker 3: 24:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:50

The college team was like and we're in Edinburgh is a great team, don't get me wrong. Like I know Pat Lugo, all those guys have been at Edinburgh, so it's not like it's a slouch team, but it's like. At the same point, though, too, it's like there's other things that they don't know about, like other people don't see you guys doing right, and that's why, again, like I told you, that's why it's interesting to have you on, because it's a whole different perspective of what a wrestling team was like and how just as stressful that is right. Like it's not.

Speaker 3: 25:17

It's not a walk in the park, especially when you're dealing with different personalities and you got the coaching staff and no, and as I got older and more into my, as I found my more of my place in the wrestling world it was. It became more of like a business for me, like the way that you hear a lot of coaches like it's a business trip. For them it is a business trip and for me it's also a business trip because when COVID hit and I had withdrawn from Edinburgh and I went back home and I thought my life was over and then I came back to school, it was like I'm a lot older than everyone here not by a lot, but of course the team made me feel like I was ancient. So I I was like how I have to draw that fine line. Like, yes, I am a college student, but we are not friends. We like none of us are friends. Like this for me is a very serious.

Speaker 3: 26:21

And as I got into it a little bit more with my first year back to school after taking a two-year break, I was like oh, oh, shit, like this is my thing, so. So then it became like yeah, we really aren't friends. And like it was, there was a lot of like oh, what does coach think about me? What does coach say about me? Oh, like, oh, do you know when we're having practice? Oh, do you know what we're doing at practice today? And then it became like a don't tell the guys what we're doing at practice today. I was like I'm not like that with the you. Your tickets are right. I don't care enough. But it was funny because the girl that I ended up doing stats with in high school became one of my best friends in the entire universe. I'm actually going to be the maid of honor in her wedding. Her brother went to edinburgh to wrestle, so it was like a full circle moment, because I'm only an hour and 15 minutes from edinburgh. So okay, okay it was.

Speaker 3: 27:22

It was so funny like that. We all just kind of ended up at the same place and then his sister ended up going to penn state. So oh really it was just kind of all a one 180. It all worked out the way it needed to so it's.

Speaker 2: 27:39

It's interesting that, with you know you mentioned how it's you don't know how athletes can do it, because you know the schedule that you had and how busy you got and just just how chaotic it gets. What were you like? Were you at that time into writing classes? Like, what were you doing then as far as writing?

Speaker 3: 27:58

I mean, when I started freshman year, I was one. I started out with a psych class and then all my journalism classes and I am not good at science or math um, I'm very terrible at it. Don't ever ask me to help you with that. And when I had to have psych for my very first class of the day and semester, it was not gonna go well. And then I failed my first psych test and I was like, oh well, I suck at college, I might as well drop out now oh and then I was like, no, and I didn't know how to study.

Speaker 3: 28:37

Because whoever tells you that this is what you got to do to study? No one tell. No one teaches how to study in college no one teaches, no study right like I had no idea how to study.

Speaker 3: 28:51

I was like I have no idea what I'm doing. Well, how do you do this? And they're like you just have to read the textbook. I'm like, okay, I can read and take notes, I can do that. But my psych professor told me and I carried it the rest of college if you do not understand the vocabulary of the course you are taking, you will never understand the class. So, every single chapter, every vocabulary, word, word, I made index cards. I didn't do like the little things on your phone. I'm such a nerd that I like to handwrite everything.

Speaker 3: 29:24

Same thing I like to make it as hard as possible on myself and stress myself out so much I'm going to write everything out by hand Nice. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:36

Well hey, writing it, it's memory that way, and then you got the card. You're doing some more memory work that way.

Speaker 3: 29:41

Yeah, I mean it all pans out and I mean all the studies show that handwritten everything makes you remember everything so it's repetition.

Speaker 2: 29:51

Right now that's a lost art man.

Speaker 3: 29:53

I'll tell you what can you write cursive um, it looks like a third grader did it, but I did learn it. I did learn it in third grade, but it was a little iffy, so now I just sound like a doctor and pretend that it's my signature it's really just really whippy right through.

Speaker 2: 30:12

Yes, exactly it's perfect it's perfect. So you wind up going back. You said it was after COVID, right, you went. You went back, and then so did you. Were you just thrown right back into it? Were you? Did you have help?

Speaker 3: 30:26

I kind of, when I knew I was coming back, I had already previously kind of been in contact with Coach Hill. It was kind of funny because my my boyfriend at the time of when I was kind of funny because my my boyfriend at the time of when I was kind of wanting to go back to school was getting recruited by coach hill twice in his time in college. I was like, and so he was texting me. He's like hey, I heard so and so's in the portal and I was like, yeah, I was like please tell me, you don't want me to talk to him for you. Like please, don't use that car again, don't use, don't use me for that please.

Speaker 3: 31:04

And um, he in fact did not end up going to borough, but um, but, and then I told coach I was like, hey, I want to come back. And he was like we'll take you back anytime. And so then when I knew I want to come back and he was like we'll take you back anytime. And so then when I knew I was really coming back, I was like, hey, like I'm dead serious, I'm coming back, I want to be involved as much as possible. Let me know what I can do for you and how I can help. And then, yeah, he just gave me a to-do list every single day for the next two years.

Speaker 2: 31:40

Well, that works out. So what year did you graduate?

Speaker 3: 31:44

I college.

Speaker 2: 31:46

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:47

I just graduated with my bachelor's in May.

Speaker 2: 31:51

Nice Congratulations.

Speaker 3: 31:53

Yeah, I got my associates. Last August and now this May, I finished my bachelor's, so I felt in your majors journalism. No, I actually I've been changing my major seven times in college. Well done, well done. And my grandma did tell me that I had to stop changing it because it was getting very expensive for her. She's like you stop changing your mind Just like okay, please stop changing your mind, just make up your mind.

Speaker 3: 32:20

I was like, okay, I'm going to try. I was like, seventh, that's awesome, seventh try's charm is whatever. And I finally changed it to interdisciplinary studies, which is general studies, because when I graduated in may, and still to this day, um, wrestling is what I eat, sleep and breathe every day, no matter what I'm doing, consume my life, and I want to have that same feeling for the rest of my life, like I want to sleep, breathe, wrestling forever, as long as I can in any way so you thought it out.

Speaker 2: 33:00

That's what I was going to start asking is like did you, did you really think it through?

Speaker 3: 33:03

you actually did you did think it through, okay and I was like all my classes that I had go into this degree was going to help me in some way, shape or form, like I had a little bit of journalism. I had a little bit of journalism, I had a little bit of communications had a little political science Cause wrestling had a bit, a bit of education, because you got to be educated Therapist. Yeah, exactly, I had social work classes in my degree. I was. I was good to go.

Speaker 2: 33:34

You're set. So, as you're, as you're going through your years of edinburgh, you're getting all this experience. And then when? When does all this internet writing start? When did that start for you?

Speaker 3: 33:45

I went to nationals in 2023 with edinburgh. Ryan burgus was our national qualifier and I was, I remember coming outside of the tunnel right before they found me and kicked me out and I was standing on the floor and I was standing right across from the Rachel Gallardo.

Speaker 2: 34:09

And.

Speaker 3: 34:10

I saw her in her sequence and her sparkle and her glam and in my head immediately I was like I want to be her. I don't know who she is, I don't know what she's doing, I don't know who she works for. I want to be her. I don't know who she is, I don't know what she's doing, I don't know who she works for. I want to be her and I want to do that. That's exactly what I want to do. And she smiled at me.

Speaker 3: 34:30

I was like yep, we, we can be best friends I don't even know who she is, and I didn't even know at the time when I started getting involved in wrestling twitter. So I kind of like knew who she was. I didn't know who she know at the time when I started getting involved in wrestling Twitter, so I kind of like knew who she was but didn't know who she was at the same time. And then, a month after Nationals has ended, I had seen Earl post on Twitter hey, we're looking for extra writers for Intermat. And I was like I'm in, so I DM'd him immediately. I was like I am interested, let me know. And he's like I just need a resume. I was like my writing of wrestling is dated because I used to write for our local newspaper covering our local wrestling while I was doing stats, so I was a stack girl in the match and then after the match I was a reporter. So but yeah, I did that that's a good mix.

Speaker 2: 35:20

That's a very good mix. You know that especially. You know the experience you've already had in wrestling, so you already have some of the terminology. You already you know all that. I mean just the writing. It sounds like it's something you love anyway, so it would come second nature, right? So so what did it? Was that?

Speaker 3: 35:37

instant you sent him over the stuff was he like all right, let's go write something he, um, we did a, we did a few interviews and he was impressed with the knowledge that I had. And he was, and he used to send us calendars of like hey, like these are the events coming up? Like, let me know if you want to cover one of these. And I remember u20s and u23s is coming up. And I was like, all right, I'll just do a preview of the entire tournament. And I did it.

Speaker 3: 36:07

I spent lots of hours, lots of long nights, and I sent it over to him and he was like he, he posted it. He was like it's great. I was like let me know what I can change or whatever. And then he set up a meeting and he was like um, I really thought that your first article would be about edinburgh. And just like, be easy. He said, no, it'll be easy. And he was like yeah, you're the biggest pair of lady balls I've ever seen to cover a tournament that big with your own opinion in this world of wrestling where everyone has an opinion yeah and I was like yeah, um, the older I get, the more I don't care what other people think of me.

Speaker 2: 36:49

So and you're only in your 20s. That's fantastic. I'm watching the next like at least 20, 25 years. This is gonna get really good. It's gonna get awesome. So when you're going, like for you to cover an event right to write about or preview or whatever, do you prefer to go to the event to witness things or are you okay with just kind of seeing what happens on you know? Whatever you can catch on tv or catch you know on streaming or whatever it is? What do you prefer when it comes to writing? Some people don't like to go to these stadiums, these places. They did, oh god, I don't want to go to that place. You know they wish they would have done this at this place, you know, like they did two years ago. Where do you prefer at home or do you like going there?

Speaker 3: 37:36

well, it usually depends. I mean, I would say this past u20s I interviewed um the team after they had won their matches and I was freaking out like and I don't care how many people I interview in my life, I don't care who I'm interviewing, I don't care how long I've known them, I'm gonna freak out every time and I was sweating buckets interviewing these guys headband on.

Speaker 3: 38:02

You're gonna have like a headband on and I did like know some of them, like some of them did recognize me from nationals previously, like and like I interviewed bo bassett and bo and I are kind of familiar with each other, we're both PA kids and I met him at Nationals and I just went up to him and introduced myself. I was like, hey, I'm from Pennsylvania, I work with the AUSA. We kind of are familiar with each other and so we had that mutual understanding. So when I went to go interview him again, he was like oh, hey, how are you? I was like oh, I'm good, how are? Hey, how are you? I was like oh, how are you?

Speaker 3: 38:41

So I was just like but it can be really hard because then you have to look up the results for yourself and you have to kind of form your own opinion. I like to be there, so like if I am interviewing someone and then I have to write about it, I feel it feels more authentic if I'm just there because I can really. So when everyone's like, oh, this was an electrifying match, was it actually electrifying because you were there or you just thought it was electrifying because these two wrestlers are really good and they scrambled the entire time?

Speaker 2: 39:07

yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 3: 39:08

I like to go there, because you'll actually know that I mean it yeah and totally.

Speaker 2: 39:15

And I know sometimes like, uh, I I did, like I was more of a kind of like the writing guy when I was in high school. I should have gone to college but I was not smart enough. But I I did enjoy. You know, like if I, if I heard about a movie I didn't want to like I wanted to go watch it and then, like I never needed to read the book, Like I was that guy, so I want I was always the face to face.

Speaker 2: 39:35

I'm kind of the same way. I like to be in the action or by the action, to be able to kind of describe it better. It's just different now, with technology, with so many things you can stream and you can just go watch it somewhere. I'm I'm more of the fan that likes to smell, like the popcorn, what. I can't remember who was saying that. Oh, I think it was Dan Gable. He said that he used to walk out in the hallway back in the day. He could smell cigarette smoke out in the hallway of a high school. I was like that's different, but I just like being in the environment. So I agree with you on that one. What did you wind up gravitating towards the most. Do you like writing about freestyle or do you like writing about collegiate? Which one is your favorite?

Speaker 3: 40:15

I would say probably folk style. I have the most experience with folk style. I didn't even know that freestyle existed for a while. I don't want to admit that.

Speaker 2: 40:29

But I won't beat you up on it.

Speaker 3: 40:31

It took a while to understand. And then my uncle was like nope, there's three styles. I was like, um, this is awkward. I just said I'm a wrestling fan. I didn't even know there were three styles of wrestling. Like all right, well, I guess I'm a fake fan. Then, yeah, I will say that in the past two years I have gravitated like I really do appreciate every single style and I know what everyone says about greco, but I appreciate it I love it too, yep and I will say that I have spent a lot of time at now national events in the past year and I've been spending a lot of time with SJ at USA Wrestling and she loves Greco.

Speaker 3: 41:22

She's a Greco girl, she's a freestyle girl, she knows all the little tidbits of every Greco team member, every freestyle team member, nice, almost every age group, and she's the one who was like oh yeah, she's so excited about it when she talks about it that it makes me excited. So I became more appreciative of all of the styles, but I just know folk style more because I've been doing it longer. And when girls wrestling became more popular and they were only doing freestyles like I, I didn't watch girls wrestling for a while, even though they were doing it when I was getting involved, because I had no idea anything about freestyle okay, yeah so it took me a while to watch it.

Speaker 3: 42:12

Not because I have anything against it right, right, yeah, but you just wanted to understand it I had no idea and of course I was a little too young to like want to take more interest in, and I just kept to my folk style because I was like no, I just, I love folk style well, and that's the other thing, though, too, is like you were.

Speaker 2: 42:31

You were buried in folk style. Right like I mean you. It's not like you're still in college. You're in college and you're helping manage a team. That's in folk style. It's not like you have any other time on your hands to be able to figure something else out either at the same time.

Speaker 3: 42:44

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:45

Um, when you you mentioned coaching, where are you coaching now?

Speaker 3: 42:50

I coach at my old high school, nice. So I'm I am currently in my hometown till I figure out what I'm going to do with my life yeah, and my uncle sent me a job posting that they were looking for an assistant coach at the high school. And I was like, oh, this is weird, I'm going to go back there and I'm going to coach girls wrestling. I've never wrestled. I'm going to go coach girls wrestling at my old high school. And for me it was different to go back there because my uncle was the assistant coach, but our head coach. He passed away in 2020 and he had battle cancer for a really long time.

Speaker 3: 43:34

And I was like I was like he took me under his wing, like I, he, his wife, is actually my current boss and to this day. And so she she tells everyone she's like, oh, this is dean's protege, like she, like this is the girl like dean and put all of his love of wrestling into her. And I did like I soaked it all up, like between my uncle and between coach Jay, like I soaked all of it up. And so for me going back there, in a way, it felt weird because of that, but I felt good going back because I was like, yeah, it would be cool, like if coach Jay was here and he could see that I was back here coaching. He would be like I can't believe it, like I can't believe it is.

Speaker 3: 44:23

Yeah, I was like it is crazy circle but it is nice to like put on wrestling shoes as weird as it sounds and like step on a mat and I'm like, oh, this is like. This is weird to be here and doing this, but I'm happy to be here and doing this. And in our club that they built in my hometown there's pictures on the wall as a memorial and our first ever team picture that I was in at a tournament with Coach J is hanging on the wall. So it was really cool. Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 3: 44:57

I noticed it a couple like I've been going to the club now really cool, that's cool. I noticed it a couple like I've been going to the club now for two weeks and I just noticed it the other day and I was like, oh, this is like so. I had a moment and we had like a team dinner in there the other night and the the girls were like is that you? And I was like yeah, and they're like why do you look like that? I was like because I was 14. I was like that's why I look like that. I'm like you are all 14 right now. What do you mean?

Speaker 2: 45:25

I'm gonna ask you that right, yeah, why do you look like how you look? Yeah, okay, that's awesome. So I guess I'm kind of curious, what was it like? Because I mean, you, you didn't wrestle right, like, I mean, you were in the wrestling room so it's not to say that you didn't maybe mess around a couple times to try to wrestle someone, it's not like you didn't do something. But now to be able to coach, that's kind of why I was curious about the whole analytical side. Like you're, I know that you obviously have the, the brain and the knowledge to be able to kind of, you know, put a person and put them out there in the right position and do that kind of thing because of who you learn from, right, like, so what was that like then to put those shoes on, aside from what you'd already done, cause it's a whole different world.

Speaker 3: 46:10

Yeah, I would say that I've always been a watcher and I've always been a listener Like one. People always ask me like they're like, oh, like, name your best quality. I was like say, I would always say, like I'm a good listener, I will listen to anyone and I think it's just because I know what it's like to not be listened to and it sucks. So I always listen to everyone and like, if you want to, I don't care what you got to say to me, I'll listen. And especially when it came to wrestling, like the more I got involved, the more I wanted like, if I'm gonna know it, I'm gonna know it and you're not gonna tell me that I don't know it because I'm going to know it. So when I got into coaching I actually started coaching last year with my first year and I coach back in Edinburgh at the local high school there and the head coach of the men's program he came up to me after our youth tournament that we always host and he was like so I got a girl's wrestling team, we need a coach.

Speaker 3: 47:08

I said oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And he was like why? I was like I don't know wrestling like that, I never wrestled. He's like okay, you don't need to wrestle to coach wrestling. I was like I feel like you might be wrong and he was like no, I'm not wrong. He was like there are plenty of coaches that coach and they have no idea. He's like think of every sport ever. You think all those coaches have played that sport?

Speaker 3: 47:37

probably not makes a very valid point I was like a valid point, they all started somewhere and, of course, like the coach that I was going to coach under.

Speaker 3: 47:48

He was like did your uncle wrestle? I said no, and he was like and he's coaching wrestling. Imagine that. I was like okay, you got me there, but one of the boys right, that's awesome, one of the boys from frederick bro walked by and he was like madison's gonna coach wrestling. Madison doesn't know anything about wrestling, she's never wrestled. And he turned around. He was like she doesn't need to step on a mat to coach it. And she's like and right, coach cook was like you're telling me you've been around wrestling for 11 years. You don't know a single thing. You don't know anything. You don't know how to get through a match at all. It was like maybe, maybe I do know a thing or two on the mat. Yeah, when I start, he's like you just come to one practice and if you hate it you never have to come back, but if you love it you have to come back. I was like I'll go to one practice. I don't even have shoes. He's like we'll get you shoes. I was like okay yeah one practice.

Speaker 3: 48:51

I was there for about five minutes. I was like you know, I think this is gonna be okay and I fell in love with it ever since. And the first night I was yelling at the girls and they were like it's only your first day here and you're already yelling at us. Why are you being mean to us? I was like oh boy, oh like if you think this is me being mean, we got a whole season together oh, if you only knew, that's awesome, that's, that's so cool, it's I mean.

Speaker 2: 49:22

Again, wait, I talked to athletes and that's all I. I competed here, I competed here, I could be here. You're a whole different side of it, like I've talked, I think I had a, I had a ref on a while back, but you had a whole different side of it, right, and then you're diving right into the coaching portion. So now, with where you're coaching at now, do you have aspirations, like because you like writing, you enjoy the journalism part of it. Do you find yourself, maybe are you going to try and balance both of them and try and get to like an upper level of coaching them?

Speaker 3: 49:53

I'm not sure I. I love writing and I have come to find out that I love coaching. I wasn't going to coach this year because I didn't really know where I was going to end up and I didn't want to commit to a team and then leave in the middle of the season. I know a lot of coaches. They do see it more as a business and they have no problem leaving in the middle of the season or the beginning of a season or at the end of the season. For me it was really hard, like it was really hard to leave the girls I coached last year.

Speaker 3: 50:22

It was really hard to come into a new program this year and I I now have like signed and made the commitment to March for my girls now and like I intend to hold that commitment and for me, like even like I didn't want to even come in before the beginning of a season and be like hey, I know we've only known each other for two weeks, but I want you to trust that I'm gonna lead you to win on a wrestling mat and I know that we don't know each other, but I just want you to trust me. Like that's a lot to ask of a kid, and it is. I have trust issues as an adult, so I can't imagine as a child, yeah and I I feel like that's just a loaded question to ask of someone, even as an athlete like, hey, I need you to trust that I'm coming in here as a complete stranger and you need to trust me and you're wrestling. And for me that didn't feel right, so I wasn't going to coach because I didn't know where I was going to end up.

Speaker 2: 51:21

But now that I've now made this commitment, like I'm locked in until march, like I'm not going anywhere, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah for sure, and I think, in the way that it seems like you handle things, that it's not like you back away from too much. So I mean I can only imagine that's what. I was kind of curious, like you're gonna take on both and like maybe step it up, you know, a couple notches with the coaching and still keep the freelance going, because it seems like you're able to.

Speaker 3: 51:45

I mean, you were managing college team, so it seems like you're able to balance a couple things so I mean last season, I think all at once I was team manager fredenborough coaching girls wrestling um on the board of board of directors for pa usa and I was freelancer for an amount. Oh, and then, when that ended, well done when that ended in may, I was completely lost, like completely lost. I was like I'm not busy anymore. What do I do?

Speaker 2: 52:16

Yeah, oh no board.

Speaker 3: 52:17

What do I?

Speaker 2: 52:18

do, yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:19

So you've obviously heard in. Again. I think your story is a pretty cool one as far as just the direction that you have decided to go and the things you decided to do, and that's what makes a lot of this portion especially about what you've done kind of unique compared to everybody else, cause usually everybody else is the athlete right, or they're the coach. Now you're, you came up in the trenches, yeah, like literally the trenches of wrestling, like I don't think anybody understands that aspect of what of what these guys do. It is the trenches of wrestling, cause you don't see a damn thing that they do, not one. You don't see it. You'll hear a coach talk about it. You're like, oh, madison, she's my, she's my girl, she does this for me, she does this. You'll hear that. You don't see it. Now, you don't see what time they're doing it at. Well, you know how long it takes me to do it. So kudos to you for doing that.

Speaker 2: 53:10

And then now coming up into the position you're at now and and coaching and being able to, you know, bring some, some people, people into the real world and make them responsible people and not just the aspect on the mat, Right, I mean, it's off, it's awesome, and I coach JV soccer. It's the same thing for me. I'm making sure that these guys are taking life lessons, not only about what they're doing on the field, but also once you go out and get jobs and things like that teaching them responsibility, teaching them respect, respect and and all that because at the end of the day, I mean, it's a sport, right, and we want the kids to have fun with it. We want to win, right, as coaches doesn't want to. Oh yeah, I want to win, der. But you know, we do have to keep that in mind and I think it's important that, um, you know, you have a, you have a good head on your shoulders. You, you have a good background now, especially in the sport, I mean at the analytical side, when you're coaching. That's, that's, everything, right. I mean, that's, that's it. So I'm tomorrow, I actually tomorrow morning, I'm gonna have a guy on.

Speaker 2: 54:03

He's actually one of the coaches I could call him here. He's the nerd, like he's the. He's the stats dude. He knows he's from indiana, but he did the same thing. He competed, but he started out with stats like he started out just keeping scores and stuff. Then Then finally he got into it cause he, you know he wanted to try it, so, but that's, that's the nitty gritty stuff that I think people kind of underestimate, and I think a lot of people think that they can just do it.

Speaker 3: 54:27

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 54:27

You know and you can't cause. I mean, some people can.

Speaker 3: 54:30

Obviously there's some people that can you can't just do it like, oh, i'm'm just gonna go and be a team manager, oh, you are. Oh, okay, cool, have at it. And it's it's hard because I had to, like I had to ask to be in the position and yeah, proving myself in this position, and like you said, like, yeah, like there are coaches like oh yeah, madison does this, whatever, but you have, like, I've had plenty of my own team. Ask me what my role is or what makes me so special that I can do this, or do I even know anything about wrestling? Who do?

Speaker 3: 55:11

I think I am like I have I've gotten those. I. This is that's. This won't be the last time I ever hear it either.

Speaker 2: 55:20

I'm sure, I'm sure.

Speaker 3: 55:24

It's funny that you bring up we shape the humans that we coach. Because one thing that, again, I've always learned my uncle is he always said, like, yes, I want them to be good at wrestling and, yes, I care about winning, but no one cares if you're a good wrestler, if you were a shitty human being, right, like no one cares if you're good at wrestling if you aren't a good human. And I, last year, I told the girls like, soon as I began coaching them, like I was like I don't care if you lose every single match during the season, I really don't, um, but I do care if you're a good person outside of it, and if you're not, then it's not even worth it yep that's right.

Speaker 2: 56:11

I mean the sport builds that in the sport I mean any sport can. If you're dedicated enough, it's going to do that to you. I think the the, the commitment I think that coaches show is something that kids see and it's like kids like, like liam wants to coach, like after you know, with his high school coach and the coaches that he's got now and seeing how those guys are and he really, they really enjoy it, made him enjoy that that same way, right, so that's infectious. So in again. It is about winning, it is about making them better, but at the end, you know, as long as they're doing something that makes them happy and they're doing it well, well, hopefully, that sport and that coach helped him pave the way to be happy that way, right. So much appreciation to you.

Speaker 2: 56:50

I do want to bring up one thing that I've been talking to a lot of people about. You might see me posting about it on Twitter once in a while this whole NCAA debacle. What the hell is going on with teams. There are so many colleges right now that are dropping teams, like sports, like Wildfire right now and it's some of the most obscure things, right. I don't know, some of them are track and field. But in the, in the, I know I can't even remember the last time I heard about that college having track and field like do anything, right, so I get it, but as a lit like the small school, so we all hear about power five, right, and all the big guys that are going to put the bill. You went edinburgh, not a huge school, right? What? What are things that are coming down the pipeline for little schools like that? That you're, that you're hearing about?

Speaker 2: 57:41

well everything's vague yeah, it's hard.

Speaker 3: 57:45

Um, I would say like, I mean, I'm gonna be on my high horse here, but go for it. Nil started it, the one that finishes it yep and small schools can't compete like we. We can't. We can't compete with the money that you have or the tactics that you're using to recruit, even though it's literally against ncaa regulations, but no one is going to talk about that right no one's going to talk about all the schools that break the rules.

Speaker 3: 58:22

No one's going to talk about all the donors that text and call athletes to offer them the bags. No one's going to talk about that part, right I?

Speaker 2: 58:30

No one else will. Yep, there's a guy named Bob, I think out there that does it, I believe.

Speaker 3: 58:35

And so, and now it's NIL, it's Title IX, it's no donors willing to spend their money anymore. Donors want to fight for the program. People always make jokes all the time of like how, oh, edinburgh will go back to d2. I'm telling you right now, our donors will never let that happen. Like donor, like you, got some serious donors and they are not going to let edinburgh go back to d2 yeah happen, but yeah, there's a lot of.

Speaker 2: 59:12

There's a lot of doom and gloom, I believe. But I and here's the thing, I'm not trying to vilify like schools or like their athletic athletic directors, really only have so much control, and I'm not even really trying to vilify schools, but a lot of these schools didn't want to have these sports around anyways when covid hit, so this is almost like a, it's almost like a uh, like a, like a rebound from covet. When they because there was a time when they want to drop down to eight teams like a lot of schools are like well, just go down to eight different uh sports, you know that's that sounds like a nice. I don't know how they came up with that number. I didn't, I didn't read that far into it, but I'm kind of.

Speaker 2: 59:47

I'm just on the worried side when you start talking about revenue. Right, like revenue is the big thing, because you know penn state's got a great wrestling team, but what's the revenue? What was the revenue? Like 1.8 million or something like that. I think one year was and, but iowa was the same. So those guys are the big, big numbers.

Speaker 2: 1:00:03

But you get a school like michigan that bring like their athletics, that's their, that's their money machine is their athletics right, so almost everything in michigan would survive. But when you start talking about the small schools, don't you think that without the roster changes, some of these kids would then wind up kind of dispersing and going to those smaller schools and making I don't know, making a team better, a little more competitive to be able to bring the crowds in? And because that's what I'm pushing right now, I'm I'm telling everybody to stop subscribing and start going to these events, start paying money to buy a ticket to get into the place. I'm all that's fine If you got a stream, if you're not in town or if you're someone that lives far away.

Speaker 2: 1:00:40

But getting butts in in Edinburgh and getting butts in, you know, in wherever Bucknell, it doesn't matter where it is by the tickets because I think I feel like, I feel like and this is the what I've heard is that some of these sports aren't necessarily going to go away, but they're going to turn into, like a club sport, you know what I'm saying and it's absolutely true.

Speaker 3: 1:01:01

Like and especially like, schools with powerful football programs are the ones that need to watch out. Like they are the ones that should be worried. And right now, school like edinburgh, like we don't have a powerful we're, we have a division two football program and it's not that powerful. So we don't really have anything to worry about right now. But with the roster changes it it kind of looks better for us because now people I mean maybe people still will go to Penn State in Iowa and Wisconsin and sit the bench whatever they want and just be on a Big Ten team and say that they're a Big Ten wrestler right but there are some people who actually want to do something with their wrestling careers and if they can't start there and get a scholarship, they're gonna go yeah, every recruit that I've ever met, because that's what else I was doing and helping Edinburgh If I

Speaker 3: 1:01:57

was helping their recruit trips. I have met many recruits. I'm like you. I'm not going to tell you to come to Edinburgh. I mean, I'm always going to tell everyone to come to Edinburgh. But I'm going to tell you to go to a school where you can start at. If you don't feel like you can start there. If you actually want to wrestle in college, go to a school you can start at. And if you don't feel like you're ever going to start there, if you're going to sit fourth string wrestler, don't go if you actually want to wrestle, because you're never touching the mat ever like ever, maybe in an open, maybe they'll throw any open somewhere, and that's about it like you will never be a starting lineup wrestler for them, representing them.

Speaker 3: 1:02:42

I'm like sorry, but that's the truth or you're not lying, or you can be a penn state non-starter, get a championship ring and be like I wrestled at penn state State and they're going to be like who are you? And exactly Right, I'm like you can do that too. It's just the schools with big like it's going to help eventually. I mean Edinburgh and Clarion kind of right now are a spooky spot because we're combined. Are you?

Speaker 3: 1:03:10

So like we're Penn West Edinburgh, penn West Clarion, are you so like we're pen west edinburgh, pen west clarion? We got that stupid pen west. Sorry pen west, we got the stupid pen west attached to us now.

Speaker 2: 1:03:22

So, uh, clarion gets hit, we, we get help, we get hit, clarion gets help, like it, just like interesting it's very touch and go and I don't the small programs are gonna hurt more if they have really powerful football teams yeah, yeah, and that's what I've noticed too is as far as, uh, anybody saying that they have to, they have to re um, um, reassess their you know what experience they're bringing to the athletic student, kind of thing. Like what does that mean? Like how do you like that's what I'm talking about too, with the gray area. Like they're not, the athletic directors are barely getting enough information just from the, from the presidents and the admins of the schools, because when you go and talk to coaches about it, they're like we don't even really know what's going on. How do you not know? They're like we don't even really know what's going on how do you not know?

Speaker 2: 1:04:16

like I don't get it and two.

Speaker 3: 1:04:18

I think a lot of that is like they do know, but they don't want to be the most hated person ever and sure, like I have unfortunately been on the end of wrestling twitter that wants to absolutely demolish your entire humanity and if you are an athletic director for wrestling specifically, or you are athletic director in general and there's something that you've done to wrestling and wrestling Twitter finds out about it, hide Because they are ruthless and they do not care.

Speaker 2: 1:04:52

So none of not care.

Speaker 3: 1:04:54

So none of them care your personal life, what you're going through or what you're having for dinner, they do not care. They will ruin your life. So but it just, it just depends.

Speaker 2: 1:05:09

It's the wild west and, like you said, and I all started it and it was it and it was I.

Speaker 3: 1:05:15

I hate the guys that got the and I said this before the guys that have gotten the million, five million bucks, whatever it is that they got, great, enjoy it, because pretty soon, you know, student athletes are going to be basically employees of the school that's what a lot of them are, and I have said before like I I don't know where it got lost in translation where we're like we stopped caring about people like these athletes are straight up dollar signs to everyone now, and a lot of them don't care. I'm like, oh, you don't have self-respect. You look in the mirror and you also see dollar signs like, do you? I'm sorry, but you couldn't pay me to do half of what these athletes are doing. You couldn't pay me to leave my school and then do whatever you want.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

Like, yeah, that's just it's.

Speaker 2: 1:06:06

It's an odd environment because on one hand, you have coaches that are saying, you know, like it's hard to trust athletes because they're a good coach, like they want to have a great team, they want to, they, they go out and try to find the best kids, but then you talk about, like the kids that are just looking at dollar signs and they're not very loyal.

Speaker 2: 1:06:21

But you also do have the coaches that are out there that are not loyal, that they because they also get incentives for having, for making it and having guys go to the NCAAs, Like there's a bonus for that, not just for getting good grades. These guys, when they're, when they're athletes, perform, they get more money right. So you also run into the mix where the coaches aren't very loyal. They're worried about getting their bonus paycheck as well. So it's hard and that's why I always, I always empathize with the athletes now especially, especially, going through the recruiting process, because and right now, how do you know what decision to make and how soon do you make it right? And that's why we told liam you know, with all the stuff going on, you're going to want to make a decision sooner rather than later, so that way, you're locked in with someone, you already know what's going to go on.

Speaker 3: 1:07:03

But even now, even now, you don't know what's going to happen yeah and I tell and I've seen it like a lot of high school seniors like they'll get all these like small little offers. I'm like, oh, I'm going to wait, like I'm going to wait until after state to see what happens. That is the worst possible thing a senior in high school could do is wait until after state. You know why? Cause there's no more money.

Speaker 3: 1:07:26

All the money you were just offered has completely been gone, because the portal opens and everyone wants to transfer and if you get upset or anything happens at states, all your offers gone gone like right now you're a walk-on so how about you just make your decision when you start getting all these offers and to begin with, and then work it, because we can still work with you, like sweet little Landon Bainey that went to Borough this season.

Speaker 3: 1:07:57

He made his decision in summer, he committed it at the very beginning of the school year and then he had a poor state tournament probably no help to what Twitter and he still came to Edinburgh on all the money that he was already given. The part of the scholarship that he was given was no issue and now he is just fine. He is just fine. He is outperforming expectations that most people have had for him and he is doing just fine and he's doing great. And he is placing at college opens as a freshman, like. So, like don't wait, it's not, it's so detrimental. Everything you think that you're gonna have at the end.

Speaker 2: 1:08:47

you're not yeah, no, no, yeah, it goes away, and I think that's the hardest part and I think that's a good. Another good reason why I talk about this a lot so again we're going to talk about it tomorrow is just because there's a there's an eye-opening portion of this that I think a lot of parents don't understand, and because they're along for the ride with their kid. Their kid is going to make the decision ultimately, but you have to feed them the information correctly, because I mean, I'll tell you right now, when we're slid over an offer from a college coach liam's looking at me, you know, like this, he doesn't know, he has no clue what he's looking at. So parents really need to start paying attention and start reading.

Speaker 2: 1:09:22

And you know what's going on today in sports, especially today, because it's gonna get crazier, it's and then it'll wind down. It's like you said it'll. Eventually it'll wind down. People are going to complain about whatever's going on and some people are going to be like it's the best thing ever. But parents need to, like, really read right now, read between the lines and ask for help, because some of this shit is not understandable.

Speaker 3: 1:09:45

No, and I've met a lot of parents in the past two years that some of them think that a lot of colleges have the same paycheck. Like they think that we all have the same checkbook and we're going to give you all the same money. I'm telling you right now, edinburgh University is not giving you the same paycheck as Penn State. That's not happening. We're not even giving you the same paycheck as Clarion. Like it's just not, it's not happening. And they do truly believe that they're. Everything is the same at each college and a lot of the first time generation college students with their parents, who have never been to college, have no idea what to expect, and neither do their parents. Their parents have so many questions and I'm like you have to read everything.

Speaker 3: 1:10:35

You have to do research, like, luckily, when I was at Edinburgh. I've been here since the stone age. I can tell you everything about this university at this point. After I give you all of my information, then you can go along with whatever you need to.

Speaker 2: 1:10:50

Yeah, so it it's. It's just an interesting time. It's. It's something that is definitely going to be.

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

Um, I'll be grateful when it's done, when, when it's figured out, when people know what's going to happen. You know, in the schools I doubt they're going to make the decisions and the time frames that everybody expects them to. But as long as this court crap can get over with, I think a lot of people at least have some questions answered, because then you have a document you can go to that stays the same thing instead of it changing. You know, after three months, because they scratched some stuff out, the judge took stuff out and he didn't like certain things, nil had to change and so hopefully they petered it out and level it out so we can understand what's going on.

Speaker 2: 1:11:30

But you know we've been going on for about an hour now, right, a little over an hour hour and 10 minutes. I'm appreciative of the time that you took to sit down and talk and get to talk some shop here at the end, because I was really kind of curious as to what your thoughts were on it and obviously we're coming from the same place since NIL that started it. But I appreciate you coming on sitting down. I'd love to have you back on sometime in the future. Obviously, I'll be paying attention to what you got going on on social media and hopefully you do likewise. Got any shout-outs? You got anything coming up that you got going on, anything you want to put out there?

Speaker 3: 1:12:07

Not that I can really think of my girls and I start our season December 7th, so we got that going on. The Keystone Classic is this weekend. I know Kevin McGuigan is very excited.

Speaker 2: 1:12:20

Yes.

Speaker 3: 1:12:21

And I wish I could be there and I just can't wait to see all my women in wrestling and nationals next March or this March, I guess.

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

Well, good luck to you in coaching. We'll be like I said we'll we'll be watching and we'll be paying attention. If you got anything going on, let us know, we'll put it out there for you. But typically we see what you got going on, we'll we'll make sure we share stuff. So, um, everybody, it's been madison hollenbach. She is the everything girl, um, but in particular, she writes for, she freelances for intermat. So go check out intermat, check out her articles. Uh, I believe you actually have a whole list of them. Uh, I think it's in your bio, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 1:12:59

where you click on.

Speaker 2: 1:13:00

It takes you just to your articles I'm not sure.

Speaker 3: 1:13:04

I probably should do that, but if you, if you look up the authors on intermat and you click on all of our names, it'll give every article we've ever written I'll.

Speaker 2: 1:13:13

I'll find the link to that. It'll be in the youtube uh description and stuff like that, so people can find it too. So, but uh, much appreciated, I'm gonna hit the music. I'm gonna talk to you for a minute I talked to everybody just when we're done, but I'm gonna hit the music and uh, everybody, uh, we'll catch up tomorrow morning. We're gonna be going at 9 am I don't know what I'm doing. At 9 am we're gonna. We're gonna go, me and zach, uh uh, zach pearson, he's the wisconsin grappler. We're going at 9 am tomorrow morning. It's gonna be on youtube, it's gonna be on x. We are going to see you in the morning and for now, peace, the f out.