Body Image

"You Just Need to Lose Weight": and 19 Other Myths About Fat People by Aubrey Gordon: https://a.co/d/67JbRJ0

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Josh Bailey: 0:00

Hey, Psych bytes with CCS is a weekly podcast hosted by Student Life Counseling and Consultation Service. This show is dedicated to discussing a wide range of topics pertaining to mental health commonly experienced in the college setting. It is important to note that this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. All of the topics on this show, while discussed by professionals are strictly psycho educational, and meant to inform listeners on available resources, skills and support. Topics on this show can be sensitive in nature. And should you find yourself needing additional support or resources, please visit ccs.osu.edu or call us at 614-292-5766. With that in mind, enjoy the show. What is up everybody and welcome to psych bytes with CCS. My name is Josh and today we are once again joined by Kristin Swope, a staff psychologist, here with us at Counseling and Consultation Service. Welcome, Kristin.

Kristen Swope: 1:15

Hi, Josh. Thanks for having me back.

Josh Bailey: 1:16

I'm very glad to have you back. And you are going to be joining us today to talk about body image, something that is very prevalent in today's society. We see it in media, we see it in literature, we see it all over the place. So to start off, I would like to just simply talk about what is body image?

Kristen Swope: 1:34

Yeah, great question. So when we think of body image that's really in reference to any thoughts, feelings and perceptions we have of our body and about our body. So when we look in the mirror, or when we see a reflection, what is coming up for us cognitively emotionally? What judgments are we making about our body? And then oftentimes, it goes a step further, and we compare our current body to the current body ideal, which has changed over time. So for example, back in the medieval times, when food was a little bit more scarce, and people had to do a lot of physical labor, it was actually ideal to have excess fat on your body because it meant you had wealth and that you didn't have to spend, you know, days laboring in the field, things like that. And as time progressed, and food became more abundant, and we kind of settled into more sedentary jobs, the ideal has become this really kind of thin physique. In more recent times, it's not only good enough to be thin, if you have to be thin and fit. A little bit more recently, that's kind of transitioned into this like slim, quote, unquote, "slim thick" ideal body. And then I study this a lot. So even more recently, like in the year 2023, we're actually seeing a regression to kind of 2000s body ideals, meaning this like really emaciated, low rising jeans hanging off your hips look. Yeah, so obviously, these body ideals change very much over time. But when we really think of body image, it's where do— Where does my mind go? When I when I look at my body, what emotions are coming up for me? And how does that compare to the current body ideal?

Josh Bailey: 3:19

Gotcha. And this is something that isn't necessarily universal globally, like we might see differences between different cultures, correct? So this might be more of a more of a Western ideology, or some other predominant cultures that we see or hear a lot about in media. Is that accurate?

Kristen Swope: 3:33

Yeah, you know, I think the concept of body image exists universally, but absolutely, the ideal body does vary between cultures, and even within a collective culture, between races. So, for African American or black folks, there tends to be a more diverse array of what's considered body acceptable and we actually see less body image dissatisfaction among black students, black people in general. So whereas like a Eurocentric kind of ideal is very, you know, this thin, this very fit physique.

Josh Bailey: 4:10

I see. something that I want to maybe clarify a little bit as we talk about the idea of body image and/or poor body image, something that I talk with folks a lot about, or people may ask me about and probably you as well, is the concept of body dysmorphia.

Kristen Swope: 4:27

Yes, so I have a lot of students come to me expressing concern that they might have body dysmorphia and once I dig a little bit deeper into that, what often comes about is that they're really just struggling with poor body image. That's not to say everyone who comes to us does not have body dysmorphia, but I think I just want to like highlight some some differences between poor body image versus body dysmorphia. So when we think about body image, it's not a diagnosis. It's not a clinical diagnosis in the DSM and it's very highly prevalent. So in the most recent Research, but 86% of college women and 80% of college men endorse some type of body dissatisfaction, which is a lot. And so there's also this general concern regarding weight and shape. And if we compare that to body dysmorphic disorder, which is a clinical diagnosis is in the DSM five TR, which is the most recent kind of therapist Bible for diagnosing it, we're seeing it only affects actually one to 2% of the population. And it's affecting men and women both equally in terms of prevalence rates. And it's characterized not quite by this general concern of shape or weight, but it— we are seeing some highly fixated preoccupation on a perceived flaw of specific body parts. So that might be on nose, it might be on hairline, it might be on ears or on chest tissue. And it is associated with repeated checking or measuring of, you know, the body, certain body parts. And we're also seeing that distress coming from that perceived flaw or fixation on that perceived flaw does impair functioning pretty drastically. So this person is spending hours in the mirror pinching, or looking at the perceived flaw, so much so that they're neglecting, you know, their academic work, or it's impairing time that they really want to be spending with friends.

Josh Bailey: 6:33

So really obsessing over it.

Kristen Swope: 6:35

Yes, really.

Josh Bailey: 6:36

Then might we then see them to like, take action to maybe correct these perceived flaws?

Kristen Swope: 6:42

Absolutely. Yeah. So that can look as, you know, benign as exercise. It can be wearing, you know, baggy clothes, or maybe a cap to— like a hat to hide a hairline. But it can go as far as seeking plastic surgery, repeated plastic surgery to meeting with a lot of doctors and attempt to, you know, "correct", quote, unquote, or hide this perceived flaw.

Josh Bailey: 7:08

See, and I think again, that's something that we may see a lot in social media, or again, different types of literature where people might want to point out, 'oh, look at this person who's had 100+ plastic surgeries and look at them before and after.' I see that happen a lot. Particularly back in the days I kind of look back, you're referencing early 2000s. When reality TV was at its utmost peak, for better or worse, I remember there were several people who are in that form of media that went through various changes over the course of media. As they started changing how they look, changed their appearance and became virtually unrecognizable from where they started to where they eventually wound up, which I think might make some good highlights or some good case conceptualization for body dysmorphic disorder, versus just a general body image concern.

Kristen Swope: 7:58

Sure. Yeah, yeah. And I think you know, folks with poor body image, you might go to some lengths to, you know, improve your body image or work on an area that you would like to improve, but it's the time, it's the money. It's the efforts that are being spent to correct these flaws, and the distress associated with the flaws that really characterizes poor body image from body dysmorphia.

Josh Bailey: 8:20

So I want to highlight something here. And you mentioned this earlier, when you were talking about the percentages of college age men and women that experience body image concerns, you noted that 80% of college aged men endorsed experiencing body image concerns. I feel this is something that isn't very often talked about, right? Oftentimes, if we think about body positivity, body acceptance and body image, we're often using a female poster child when we talk about these things. So to hear that 80% of men are also experiencing this, in contrast, the 86% of women that's fairly close in terms of numbers. How is this impacting men? And why isn't it being talked about or brought to the limelight?

Kristen Swope: 9:04

Yeah, you know, and I look at that 80% number, and that's just men who are reporting it right. And so we always like see Research Statistics. And I think a lot of stigma associated with help seeking admitting that there's some type of dissatisfaction with a body when this is traditionally considered a quote unquote, "women's issue" that can really prevent men from coming forth talking about it, or reporting, you know, even if it's an anonymous survey reporting that they endorse this type of satisfaction. So yeah, there's this just general misconception that men don't experience this stuff and I actually— so I specialize in eating and body image concerns with men— And I started this specialization in when I just started my grad program and I was researching body dissatisfaction and women and— well, body dissatisfaction overall, and I noticed in the research, there was just nothing about if men experienced this, and I'm like, "Something about this doesn't sound right." Because I have male friends who have talked a little bit about, you know, these areas that they want to improve. I always see them in the gym. So what's going on to motivate them to get to the gym? Right? So I ended up specializing this through research, I found out that a lot of men do struggle with this, it's just not talked about. Like I said, I think there's a lot of societal stigma around that, you know, this is a women's issue, and men aren't allowed to come forth with these concerns. So when we're looking at themes of body image struggles with men, we're really seeing that there's this muscular mesomorphic body ideal. Think about any superhero, right? That men are looking at their bodies, and then comparing themselves to. And it's just this really unrealistic ideal associated with very low percentage of body fat, very high percentage of muscle tissue that requires a lot of investment in terms of time, money, sanity, and so you have to spend hours in the gym, your diet has to be very high protein, very low carbohydrate. What I've noticed is men tend to, if they're going to try to pursue this ideal, it comes at a great cost to them. Not just in terms of time and their money, but also this physical health where they're engaging in behaviors like misuse of supplements like creatine and fat burners, steroid use, sometimes off the black market, excessive diuretic use, off prescription. Just going to these really great lengths, it's actually putting them in physical danger and the pursuance of physical health.

Josh Bailey: 11:52

I see. And you talked about sanity. I think, if you watch any interview with, we'll just use the trifecta of Chris's. So Chris Hemsworth, Chris Evans, Chris Pratt, all characters who have played superheroes, all men who have bulked up considerably for roles. Like, we'll use Chris Hemsworth, for example, like when you see him in the Thor movies, that's the biggest as he as he gets. And then when he's not doing those movies, he he shrinks down to look more like a normal human being— less godlike, if you would. And if you've ever watched interviews with him, I don't know if you have, like he laments, the training regimens that he has to go through, to get back into Thor's shape because of just how egregious it is. And I think we're also hearing about this from like Hugh Jackman, as he's like, reprising a Wolverine role, and trying to get back into Wolverine shape. And just the, again, the commitment that they have to make and the time day in and day out of sitting in the gym, exercising multiple times a day, eating a very bland diet to try to maintain or to look a certain way. Yeah, so we mentioned it comes at the cost of sanity, I think they can very well speak to that. And I think they do try to speak to that.

Kristen Swope: 13:00

mean unrealistic body ideals for women don't exist by any means. But men are also experiencing this too. And like you were saying, at a really high cost.

Josh Bailey: 13:16

So how do we improve body image?

Kristen Swope: 13:19

Yeah, so that's the magic question, right? That a lot of students, you know, want some information on. So I started off by saying, this is going to be a long journey of unlearning. And it's not going to be a light switch that just flips on and off. And all of a sudden, you wake up and you have fabulous body image. In an ideal world, that would be great.

Josh Bailey: 13:41

Sure.

Kristen Swope: 13:41

But we live in a society that's constantly telling us, because they profit off of us, that our bodies aren't good enough. And so recommendations I give are multifaceted. I usually start because I work with college students with saying, let's look at your social media. If you use social media, most of my clients do. Who are you following? And how are they impacting your body image? So, are you following fitness influencers? What does that do for your body image after you watch their reels or look at their profiles? And sometimes we even go a little bit deeper than that. What types of bodies are generally represented on among the people who you're following? So is it mainly people who live in smaller bodies that are physically fit? Or do we have more of a range of bodies being represented? What are we feeding our brain every day when we turn on our phone when we scroll through social media, that we're then comparing our bodies to either consciously or subconsciously? So I, so I really work with my clients on, you know, what are we exposing ourselves to and how can we diversify that you don't have to follow unfollow everyone, but can we add to your social media where you are exposed to People in larger bodies or less fit bodies, that you're then going to just naturally compare yourself to.

Josh Bailey: 15:05

Right I, I like to just point that out, too. Because again, you're talking about what am I feeding my brain? But also, what are you feeding the algorithm that's going to suggest things to you? So if you don't have a diverse lineup of people that you're following, you're going to keep getting more and more of the same. And very quickly, your worldview will turn into "Well, everybody looks like this. Everybody's doing this thing."

Kristen Swope: 15:23

Absolutely. Yeah. And college, college population can even be tricky with that, because you're living in a bubble where you're exposed to people who are generally pretty young, pretty relatively healthy and fit. So I also talk with them about, you know, who are you spending your time with? And how is that helping or hurting your body image?

Josh Bailey: 15:42

So we cleaned up the social media? What next?

Kristen Swope: 15:45

Yeah, so I think there's this idea that we have to be in love with our bodies every day, and we have to wake up and we'll be sunshine and rainbows when we finally have positive body image. So I actually take a step away from that I'm actually not a huge fan of the term body positivity, I like to focus on body neutrality. And it's this idea that our body is a vessel for us to get through the world. And our body is an instrument to help us live a fulfilling life. It's not an ornament, it's not here for you to dress up or dress down, you know, in a certain way. And there absolutely can be some form of that. You can dress in a way that's fun. And, of course, we're going to be aware of how people perceive our bodies. But how much headspace is taking up for you? And are you okay with that? And so when we think of body neutrality, it's just this idea of what does my body do for me? How does it help me move through the world? Rather than what does it looked like?

Josh Bailey: 16:49

Maybe we could talk about self talk a little bit.

Kristen Swope: 16:52

Yeah, yeah. So I think it's important for us to just become aware of the power of negative self talk, even if it's just those little things like, oh, I don't really like how these jeans look on me. I wish I looked like her, I wish I had his biceps, things like that. These comments that we make to ourselves often happens subconsciously, we don't even realize that we're doing it. And yet, it goes back to what are we feeding our brain? And how is that impacting how we view ourselves? I do a lot of talk about self compassion with my clients, and what does that mean to them? How can they foster it? And I think a lot of people are concerned that if I employ self compassion, then my body's going to change drastically, or I'm not going to be a productive, a productive member of society anymore. We just have these really catastrophizing thoughts about self compassion. So it's kind of like a psychoeducational— I like to talk, it's not a scary thing. It's a thing that actually can lead you to live a more fulfilling and rich life.

Josh Bailey: 17:54

Yeah, I like that. Not pointing out the fact that we can fall into these thoughts spirals that just all of a sudden completely derail from where we started, and now we're like, I'm not going to be employable, I'm not going to be a good productive member of whatever. Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

Kristen Swope: 18:08

Yeah, we, you know, we're social creatures. And we have interactions daily with friends, peers, family. And so I think it's important if you're feeling brave enough to set boundaries with friends or family when they talk when they engage in body talk. So I for one, I make it a practice to never make comments about people's bodies, because it reinforces attention to physique, right? So even if I say, "Hey, Josh, I like your shirt." What happens for you is okay, she's noticing my shirt, she is aware that I am a physical stimulus, right. So try not to do that. Another thing that I've been aware of is refraining from making comment on any body or weight changes that people experience living in a larger body living in a smaller body. Because when I do that, and I think when people what I hear a lot is people complimenting weight loss, like "Oh, you lost some weight, like good for you." It reinforces or it assumes that these body changes were one, intentional, and two, desired. We don't know if that person has a medical issue going on that have has resulted, you know, in weight loss or if they're really struggling with depression or an eating disorder. And so I think just drawing attention to when we make body comments, and refraining from doing that, and setting boundaries with friends and family who do make those comments. And it doesn't have to be super directive, like I don't want you to make that comment about my body. It can be something as simple as acknowledging it and changing the conversation. Oh, you know, I noticed that I'm just really tired after school and you know, that's maybe why I look a little bit more tired. And let's go do something that is going to energize me. So it doesn't have to be super confrontational.

Josh Bailey: 20:09

Gotcha. But definitely, when you first mentioned I noticed, in my own mind, like, Oh my God, that sounds scary setting a boundary and talking about this thing, because again, it can be socially taboo. How do I talk about this? How do I address back? How do I push back on this when I'm talking to a friend or more specifically to a family member, and all the stuff that goes on there, so I like just having a simple redirect and moving away from it versus turning it into a confrontation based conversation. I like that a lot.

Kristen Swope: 20:37

Yeah, if your body image concerns are higher weight related, meaning if you're noticing a fear of weight gain or judgments about your body because you now find yourself in a larger body, gently challenging your own fat phobia, or fear of weight gain and immersing yourself in media and literature from educators in larger body. So it goes back to what I was saying about following social media influencers who live in larger bodies. I'm a big fan of Aubrey Gordon, she actually just put out a book called You Just Need to Lose Weight and 19 Other Myths About Fat People that just go through debunking all of these myths that we hold that the medical community holds society holds about people in larger body. So there's, you know, educational efforts that you can make, if you really want to dive into that.

Josh Bailey: 21:29

We can link that in the description as well. If any of you are interested in checking that book out.

Kristen Swope: 21:34

Other things I typically recommend to folks, I think it's important to just kind of step back and reassure yourself, progress is not linear. So if you're working on improving your body image, you're still gonna have bad body image days, you're still gonna have good body image days where you look in the mirror and you're like, I'm feeling myself today. And you're gonna have neutral body image days where you look at them and you're like, not too good, not too bad, whatever, that's totally normal. Also, if you find that you're experiencing high distress, it's, you know, impairing your functioning in everyday life. I always encourage people to seek help. This can be from a friend, a family member, it can also be from a mental health provider, there is no shame and help

Josh Bailey: 22:20

Absolutely not. Kristin, thank you so much for seeking. joining us again today. I really found this to be an entertaining and really, really educational thing for us to kind of get into and dive into and hopefully, you our listeners found this enjoyable as well. And hopefully you got something out of it. So,

to our listeners: 22:36

Thank you very much for joining us as always. Keep your eyes peeled for our next episode. Take care of yourselves and until next time, my name is Josh and this has been Psych Bytes with CCS.