Psych Bytes with CCS is a weekly podcast hosted by Student Life Counseling and Consultation Service. This show is dedicated to discussing a wide range of topics pertaining to mental health commonly experienced in the college setting. It is important to note that this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. All of the topics on this show, while discussed by professionals are strictly psycho educational, and meant to inform listeners on available resources, skills and support. Topics on this show can be sensitive in nature. And should you find yourself needing additional support or resources, please visit ccs.osu.edu or call us at 614-292-5766. With that in mind, enjoy the show. What is up everybody and welcome to Psych Bytes with CCS. My name is Josh and today we are joined by Dr. Darreon Greer. He is an embedded psychologist with the Center for Belonging and Social Change here on campus. And we are more than excited to have you with us here today. Welcome, Darreon.
Dr. Darreon Greer:Good afternoon, all. It is definitely a blessing to be here with you, Josh. And thank you so much for having having me, I've really been looking forward to this and anticipating this time with you.
Josh Bailey:Yeah, I'm right there with you. So our time today is going to be a little bit different than a lot of my other episodes that we've done and put out here, where historically we kind of focus on skill-based type things, informing people about resources that we may have around campus. And while there may be some of that sprinkled in today, today's discussion is going to be just that: a conversation. And it's going to be on the matter of representation, something that I know is very important to you, it's very important to a lot of people here on this campus, it's very important to CCS. And so having you here today, I think would be an excellent opportunity to have you speak to what representation is and why it matters.
Dr. Darreon Greer:I think it's an amazing and can be in depth topic. You know, when we look at the landscape of diversity, equity, inclusion, the visibility, the access, the justice with it, I feel that it is important as a licensed psychologist, more specifically a Black male licensed psychologist, in which we're far and few in between to kind of show up in various spaces, especially in the Higher Education University community setting, where we can help and we can be a part of the overall university community and system and trying to lift the boat and lift all ties in the ultimate regard of assisting our students with their success, and getting them where they ultimately need to be in life.
Josh Bailey:So a couple of things that I want to maybe dive into here and look at. So you're, you're talking about your own identities, right? Black Male psychologists in this field, in a university setting, and talking about that being a few and far between identity that we see here. So the idea of representation, what you bring to the table, if you could maybe speak a little bit on what that has meant for you maybe in your life and your own journey? Or maybe how you've seen it displayed in front of you here on campus, or maybe in other walks of life.
Dr. Darreon Greer:Yes, um, if I could go directly toward, because I believe in university community outreach, I believe in it as a way to access more students, let them know that we're here and ultimately provide the resources that they feel they want, and/or need. So kind of the specific example that I'll give is me going to an outreach last semester, autumn of '23, and receiving a message after that outreach from the director of that department, where a student stated, you know, we go to a lot of classes, we go to conferences, we go to different things, but the students said, "As a student of color, I have never seen a Black male psychologist before. And so that is important for me to have seen Dr. Greer, you know, in our space and just being open to speak with us and talk to us and give us some psychoed- psychoeducation on some things, but also allow us to pick his brain." And the students ultimate message was, that was forwarded to me from that director of that outreach event, was I'm just grateful to see that optic, which gives me a greater indication that it is possible for me, if I could start there with just kind of a somewhat specific example.
Josh Bailey:So I'm hearing it's like almost an installation of hope, right? There is more opportunity, there is more variety, I don't have to be locked into a certain stereotype or a pathway. But there is more out there.
Dr. Darreon Greer:Indeed, indeed, just broadening that, that horizon and expanding the mindset. Because, you know, Josh, when we go back to— you know, we talk, we use our terms in our field, right? But when we talk about those psychosocial backgrounds, understanding that, you know, so many people, not just students of color, so many people haven't had so many— haven't had various templates, and examples and exemplars of what different and varying forms of success look like. So, you know, on any given day, just me operating in the surreal-ness of, you know, I feel like I haven't made it anywhere. And at the same time, I'm finally here. And so since I am here, I do believe strongly that it is highly important, it is imperative, it is vital for me, you, all of us, to just show up. Show up where? In any, and almost every, space that our students solicit us to, and they ask us to come to. And of course, with the individual students that we work with, individual clients on our caseload, the groups we run the outreaches we do, and just being a physical presence, that lets them know that, even when they don't see us physically, that,"Hey, there's a Mr. Bailey over there, I know where Josh is if I need something, or I'm struggling. Or I know where Darreon is if something is going on. And even if they can't help me, personally or directly, they care enough to make sure that they make that referral, or get me to the appropriate level of care." So I along with you, and definitely all of us here at Counseling and Consultation Service, we don't take that lightly. And I think we would all agree with that, that work here.
Josh Bailey:I think that that point of advocacy that you're speaking to, that point of knowing that: Hey, if you ask for something, if you need something, we're going to do everything within our power to do that. And so kind of going back to the idea of maybe our diversified staff, and what that representation looks like what that means for students, and maybe even within the realm of just mental health. Do you have any thoughts or takeaways on that, or how that kind of plays out?
Dr. Darreon Greer:I believe it's an amazing and beautiful optic for students, parents, families to be able to pull up our CCS website and see the varying demographics of us as senior staff and our trainees. And so I believe that is very important in terms of cultural humility, cultural competence, and just keeping the respect of our student population and their demographic, their race, their ethnicities, their different nationalities, and creeds. Having that there, us being here in our, in our various forms to support them. Albeit, with various languages, having us as providers here that are, I don't want to say race specific, but if a student says, you know, "I want to see a Black therapist or Black male therapist only"? Well, I mean, what if you didn't have that in your wheelhouse? So shout outs to CCS and our department and student life in terms of ensuring that they see the value and the importance of having us here, which makes us— well I'll speak for myself in that regard— happier to be here.
Josh Bailey:I guess another question that's kind of popping up in my head or a thought that's popping up in my head is just, we're speaking to the optics, right? Just what people are seeing outwardly, right, the external piece. And I wonder, because you and I both know, just based on our training and our experiences, it's far more than just the outward appearance, like what we bring to the table, what we're bringing into a session what we bring into our communities, right? And I wonder how that representation can transcend just the optic piece? Like are there other elements of ourselves that we bring into a session, that we bring into an outrage, that we bring into a meeting that might even further deepen the idea of representation? Because there are those unseen identities, right? Those aspects of oneself that just off our profile picture you might not know about somebody. Whether that be, you know, where they are from? What they come from if we talk maybe like socioeconomic status or something along those lines? If we talk about sexuality, or spirituality, or things of that nature? Are there ways that we can continue to maybe deepen how we represent, or deepen how we show up in our spaces?
Dr. Darreon Greer:I think that's an amazing question, Josh. I am thinking of things such as students understanding that you get them. It does not mean that you had to have been from a neighborhood or an environment that they're from exactly. Yet, letting them know the various ways that I see you. I get it, even if I haven't lived it, if I haven't touched it or experienced it. But I get it. And I think that's very important. Now I'll give an example. I'm just thinking of something here. I like my suits, right? I'm a Joseph A Bank guy over a Men's Wearhouse guy any day. Yet, at the same time, I feel it's very important for them to see me how I am today as well, with a red Cincinnati fitted cap on and hoodie and my Air Max on, to let those that may not enter our counseling center, or may not reach out to us because I'm dressed in the suit in the bowtie. So like that, that's a specific example of the versatility. And I think the importance of being here and showing up in various facets. If that, if that makes sense.
Josh Bailey:It does. And to that, I mean, me— I'm jeans and a T shirt guy. 24/7. Right. And if I show up in khakis, and a button down, somebody's gonna say something to me, like, oh, wow, you can clean up?
Dr. Darreon Greer:Well, we know you can, Josh.
Josh Bailey:It's just if I do or not. But I think there is something to that, right? So presenting in a suit, right? Presenting in something that some might identify as very well put together, can push a person away at times, right? They see the optic and they're like,"They're too stuffy for me. I don't know if we could ever hit it off. I don't know if we could connect." They don't see you beyond the suit. Right? But then to know that, "Oh, you kind of can let loose a little bit." Right? Okay, we could go on throw a ball around in the courtyard if we wanted to. Seeing that might open up a doorway. Right? So I liked that you point that out. And I like that you're aware of that. Because I guess in my own ways, I do that too. Like maybe with how I decorate my office, I have different facets of my identity kind of strewn across my office, whether that's my love for the outdoors, or everything nerd culture, like I let that flag fly pretty freely. But you know?
Dr. Darreon Greer:Me, too, I'm a nerd. Yeah.
Josh Bailey:So right there with you. So I like to let that stuff go. And there have been many times where I've worked with clients who have came in and kind of been unsure about what the experience is going to be like, but then they might see a knick knack that I have sitting on my bookshelf, which is very limited with books, but it's got all kinds of action figures and stuff on it. But they might see that and that draws a comment,"Oh, do you game? What do you play on?" And then all of a sudden,
Dr. Darreon Greer:There's a conversation.
Josh Bailey:It's there, it's right there. And we have almost instant rapport. It's so much easier to talk about some of the difficult things that maybe brought them into my office in the first place because they know we have a common ground. Right? I'm not just this— I struggle to identify myself as a person of power as a therapist, but in you know, in our roles in our dynamic that puts us in a power position, right? So being able to kind of lower that down and be able to see each other eye-to-eye I think is huge. So I'm glad you brought that up in the different ways that we can present.
Dr. Darreon Greer:Yeah, and I'm thinking of just maybe one more example here in being the liaison to student Fraternity and Sorority Life for about the first three years— It was phenomenal Josh to be in those spaces. I'm not a big fan of white-black fraternity, or anything of that nature, but to be in those spaces of various sororities and fraternities, even outside of what would be considered white-black fraternities, but to be in all of those various spaces and be able to speak the language with those students. Albeit either either of them ever comes to me personally to seek me as their therapist, or ever comes to the counseling center in general. Yet in that outreach, they understand that I understand the proverbial "rush" process or the"pledge" process. And so, in session, let's say I'm in session with one of my students in a sorority or fraternity, they get that I get it. And that's a different talking point, you know? Because I get that I think most or all of our staff, like, that's not been a thing for them that are not Greek fraternity and sorority, but when I'm in that room with that student, or doing that outreach with that group, they understand that I resonate with them, and I get their plight, and what this looks like in terms of the populations that they're looking to serve, and the better men and women and students all together, regardless of gender, that they're trying to be, if that makes sense.
Josh Bailey:Yeah. No, I think that doesn't think it makes great sense. And, again, just another stylistic approach, you know, to these situations, to the dynamic that we work with, you know, day in and day out. A thought that just came to mind as well. And I think another good discussion point that we can have is, as we're kind of talking how we represent within our communities within our demographics, one of these things, I think about the students, right? Who are here navigating their own groups, their own cliques, their own experiences. Is there a way for me as a students to keep the idea of representation in mind as I approach my collegiate career? As I approach my professional career?
Dr. Darreon Greer:I love the question so much I was just waiting on the end. I am hearing a message that we give to my oldest son, Jr. At times when he would be on the court and it seemed like he wasn't giving his best and we yell and shout out like channeling the great Angela Bassett, who played the role in Black Panther, when she hollered, "Show them who you are." That is the message to your question that I would give to students. Let's do our best to help our students show up as their true genuine, authentic selves. And do like the great poet and Laureate, Paul Laurence Dunbar, said, "We wear the masks." Help them to unmask, you know, those facades, those walls that they've had to hold up, that were developed as a result of what happened in family life, what happened at school, what happened on the ball field or the court. Those things, their historical stuff. I don't, I don't always want to just say"trauma," go right toward trauma. So I'll say their"historical stuff." So help help them see who they are. And I believe, before I stop here, in doing that, they're able to grow and develop even better as the budding flowers that they are. The more that they can truly show up unapologetic. Yeah, let's do things the right way. And ethically, all those great things. But the more they're able to not mask it, which so many of them have had to do.
Josh Bailey:Yeah. And speaking to that, it's so hard to do, right? And it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, because we want to fit in, we want to belong. We're social creatures, right? So if everybody else is running around, wearing this particular brand of clothing, wearing these types of shoes, listen into this type of music, but I'm like, "I hate all of that. I don't want to do anything with that." But if I do, then I'm going to be ostracized, I'm going to be on the outside, I'm not going to be accepted. Right? If, I think about these conversations that I've had with many students, many clients about, "I'm not enough within my demographic." I don't identify or relate enough within my demographic because I don't do X, Y or Z. I don't like this thing here. I don't like that person there. And if I speak to that, then everybody's going to turn their noses up at me. I'm no longer one of them. I don't belong anymore. So then where do I go? What do I do? So it's just easier for me to be quiet and fall in line and put that mask on. And, for all intents and purposes, I gotta live my life fake. So understanding and kind of empathizing with that idea of how hard it can be to just be yourself, what do we do?
Dr. Darreon Greer:You're taking me back to the 18-19 year old first-year undergrad, second-year sophomore. And I, like you I'm sure, was just trying to figure it out. Yet when my fraternity brothers— I'm an mu, so Kappa Alpha Psi, incorporated — when we're at home on homecoming, or Kappa week, a few of them will still make jokes about the 50 Cent look right? The probably almost billionaire mogul 50 Cent, we know who he is, and they would make jokes about, "Remember when you had that durag on, and you had your fitted hat over the durag with your DMX dog chain. And your joggers on with your Tim boots. And man, we're from the south. You look like you were all out of place." Yet today, Josh, I would say, while I don't think I really allowed it, and I would want any student to hear this, while I don't think I allowed it to get to me as much, I heard it. And at the same time, because you and I guide through, teach through, maybe even preach self identity development every day, I wouldn't go back and change a thing of it, even though they were trying to dig at me sometimes. And understanding that, if you continue to seek out your resources, attend to your mental health, ultimately finish school, college— and keep going, if that is for you— you will be able to, like you and I, and I'll speak for me in saying, about a quarter century later removed from high school— literally almost at this point— you will be able to say: I heard what you all said when we all were trying to figure it out. I heard you. And I heard the digs when they were digs. And I don't think I'm gonna slow down now to speak about how this little rural southern fella made it to the Ohio State University.
Josh Bailey:I like the way you speak.
Dr. Darreon Greer:Thank you, sir.
Josh Bailey:Man. I don't know I'd like— man I don't know, got me at a loss. And that's uncommon for me. Yeah. So I hope you listeners heard that. I hope y'all do something with that. Because, man, I don't know where to go from there. But yeah, you just keep doing it, and you don't regret. You try it out. You figure it out. And you can look back on and be like, yeah, that was me. That was then. But it helped me get to where I'm at right now.
Dr. Darreon Greer:But Josh, when I when I when I go home, which is I don't get to get down there that often, it's never a,"Still hey, look at me. And where I'm at and where am i where I've ascended to" No, there's no ill will, there's no resentment there. For me, it still being more of an example, and exemplar, for the gentlemen who are an undergrad now that still need what it is that me and my line brothers and fraternity brothers who pledged me needed that we didn't quite have readily at our disposal in terms of those certain examples and exemplars. So just lastly, I don't go home ever mentioning"doctor". Yet I'm very thankful that my dean of pledging is gonna shout it all over the room and speak for me. And that's because of the work. So I want the students to hear that. That's because of the work that we've done and the hard work that we front loaded to get to these places, that you and I are both that.
Josh Bailey:Yeah. I think that's a good, that's a good place to pause. That's a good place to land this plane because that is powerful. That is good. I don't know. I don't think we're going to top that. You took us up to Everest.
Dr. Darreon Greer:You know, of course I don't think I would have thought of it that way, but maybe listening to this later and reflecting on it and and chewing on it, I definitely see that— and I only say that on the heels of what you just said, because I'm humble, every day is surreal. And I don't think I could get out of here without saying this. Again, I'm just a southern fella that comes from a grandmother and grandfather who bore 12 children together. Me being one of those 39 grandchildren that come from that garden, that cloth. It's not me, I'm not that good. Yet, I am happy to be a vessel that's here, a cog in the wheel here and in this great university. And it's history. So I feel like if I go on any further, I'll just be belaboring the point.
Josh Bailey:Dr. Darreon Greer, thank you so much. Appreciate having you out here. This was good. Hope to have you back on another episode.
Dr. Darreon Greer:This is love. I appreciate you, sir.
Josh Bailey:And to our listeners, as always, thank you all for showing up spending some time with us. Hopefully you got something out of this. Hopefully you can go into your own communities and represent, unabashedly and without your mask on. Until next time, I've been Josh, and this has been Psych Bytes with CCS.