Josh Bailey: 0:00

Psych Bytes with CCS is a weekly podcast hosted by Student Life's Counseling and Consultation Service. This show is dedicated to discussing a wide range of topics pertaining to mental health commonly experienced in the college setting. It is important to note that this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. All of the topics on this show, while discussed by professionals, are strictly psycho educational, and meant to inform listeners on available resources, skills and support. Topics on this show can be sensitive in nature. And should you find yourself needing additional support or resources, please visit ccs.osu.edu or call us at 614-292-5766. With that in mind, enjoy the show. What is up everyone and welcome to Psych Bytes with CCS. My name is Josh and today we are joined by Dr. Charron Sumler, who is the Assistant Director of Sports Psychology and Wellness Services. Welcome.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 1:19

Thank you. It's great to be here today.

Josh Bailey: 1:21

It's great to have you here. And you are here today to talk about athletes, athletics, and mental health, and maybe more so about what you do with athletes and mental health. So welcome, and please maybe just start off by telling us a little bit about you and what you do.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 1:42

Yeah, so our team came together about five years ago. We have four embedded clinicians in athletics directly providing services to student athletes. And really over the past five years, what we've learned is, it's really important and helpful to talk about mental health for athletes, but unfortunately, the statistics are showing that we still need to do more. So in the last decade, suicide rates for student athletes have doubled. And so we're trying to understand, of course, how to support them, but really understand what's going on in the landscape of athletics that is causing so much stress and pressure.

Josh Bailey: 2:13

Yeah. So you say there's four of you, for all of athletics, and I think about OSU and its athletics programs— It's pretty huge. So how do you guys manage that?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 2:24

Excitingly, we're right in the middle of a transition. So we are planning to expand, because you're right, four was certainly not enough for the 1,100 student athletes that we had. But we divide and conquer and really rely on our campus partners, like CCS and Wexner, and other community folks to help support our athletes. But our main focus is being present day-to-day, and really being in the athletic atmosphere to show them that mental health doesn't have to be stigmatized or seen as something you go do an appointment at a hospital, like we can do it together anywhere we are.

Josh Bailey: 2:52

So do you guys have an official title there? Is it just like "Athletics Counseling Services"? Or what's your— what's the name of the department, I guess I could say?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 3:02

Yeah, we chose an intentional title. So it's "Sports Psychology and Wellness Services". A lot of times in college athletics, you might just see "Sports Psychology," but we're really focusing on both mental health and mental performance. So the full spectrum of services and supports that our athletes need. And it really goes from health, day-to-day taking care of your bodies, to performing— performing well in life, whether that's on the field or off the field.

Josh Bailey: 3:24

Yeah. So let's talk about some services that you guys offer then. So you're talking about the spectrum of performance and mental health. What does that involve? What does that include? What does that mean?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 3:34

Yeah, so I guess when you think about some of the new age, self care modalities, like, "Oh, I want to go to a retreat and do some cold plunges," or, you know, "I want to engage in some mindfulness practices with some cool, really cool chair". Our goal is yes, to utilize those services, but help people understand that it really doesn't have to involve extra modalities and accessories. Really, it's about taking care of your body, understanding how your body performs under stress, and giving you resources to improve that performance. So it's a very individualized approach that we take for each athlete, which can take some more time, but it's really important for us, for them to understand how their body operates under stress, but also when to reach out for help. And so, on the front end of that, mental health— we really talk about stress management, understanding the pressures of the game, understanding the pressures of society, family, NIL coming out on the scene more, how to manage all of that. But then also how to build practice routines that are mindful, how to, you know, set goals in advance of the season and manage burnout as you're achieving those goals.

Josh Bailey: 4:37

Yeah, and you mentioned NIL, which is "Name, Image, Likeness," which is the big thing now for student athletes, where they can monetize their name, image, and likeness. Which is its own bag of worms, which I think you and I can make an entire episode about, maybe another time. So listeners, keep your eyes peeled for that.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 4:56

Of course.

Josh Bailey: 4:58

So with 1,100 students athletes, the four of you, looking to address, I'm assuming a variety of concerns, right? On and off the field. What are some common reasons that student athletes would come to you? Or what do you guys see most often?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 5:12

Oftentimes, I would say, in general, athletes would come to us for concerns related to the performance— I want to play better. I want to feel better when I'm playing. I want to manage the pressures of outside better. And so we usually start there. And for us, we recognize that athletes are holistic beings. And so yes, stress and anxiety can show up on the field. But it's really important to also take a peek behind the curtain and see what else is going on in life that could be exacerbating some of those stressors. So many of our athletes come to us regarding,

you know: 5:42

school, life after college, professionalizing, if they want to go on to the next level in sport, whatever that looks like, family stressors, relationships. Really your common stressors that any college student would face, just kind of in an intense bubble, maybe kind of more "pressure

Josh Bailey: 6:00

Yeah, yeah. And quite the dynamic there, or the cooker" of it, if you will. contrast, I should say, as you talk to athletes who are either: A.) Looking to move into the professional wing of their sport. Or, another one that I think might be even more pointed is the athlete that is transitioning out of the life of an athlete— like you're saying, graduating, maybe moving on into a career in industry, or something that they got their major in. What's that like? How does that look?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 6:28

Yeah, it can be hard. And so I always— I really start by encouraging people to have a broad and personal definition of what it means to be an athlete, because there are ways that we can identify as an athlete in formal sports. And there are informal ways that we are still athletes. So I really try to help them recognize their identity as a formal athlete maybe changing, but the activities, their interests, or passions don't have to. So really trying to balance that sport is life. So we can do and play and be active in all kinds of ways to help set that optimism about it. But of course, there is some change in identity, especially if you've been an athlete, you know, growing up through childhood sports, people see you that way. And so there can be concerns that people may see you differently. And what does that entail? So really helping people identify, like: Who are you outside of this formal identity? Who do you want to be? And how can we include sport and play and activity all into that?

Josh Bailey: 7:24

Gotcha. Okay. And again, I'm assuming things that people don't often think about, or consider until it's really approaching them, or it's right there. And it's like, Oh, shoot, I'm not going to be a student athlete anymore. I'm not going to be a student anymore, which can be a hard thing to transition out of, when I've been in school since I was four or five years old. And here I am at 21, 22.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 7:45

Right.

Josh Bailey: 7:46

Getting ready to not be any of these things now.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 7:49

Right, right. Or even, you know, last night, I found myself at 36, going into a new boxing class. And so, really trying to challenge myself, that I wasn't going to be good at it. And I'm used to playing sports and being good at sports. So trying something new, and really having

Josh Bailey: 8:02

Yeah. to do some self work of like, We're going into this with a beginner's mindset. Like, what can we get out of this? This is new. This might be a place where I start to develop more of an interest and build some goals. But really helping people self reflect, explore new interests and passions, and then kind of getting back on the horse, if you will, of whatever new sport it is you're trying to engage in. Bringing some of those experiences and mindset skills you've had before and bringing them to that new sport space. And I think this is something, again, that you are a great resource for, because you were— are an athlete, correct?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 8:41

Correct. I was a formal, formal— Correct. I played division two basketball, formally, and continue to engage in activity and sport and games to this day.

Josh Bailey: 8:50

Yeah, yeah. So I think it's awesome that you were there then, in this assistant director position, to be able to coach and coordinate and work with student athletes, who you can say, "I've been there, I've done that, I know how this works. I know what to expect. I know how to get you from point A to point B, successfully."

Dr. Charron Sumler: 9:08

Certainly, certainly. And with that, I also balanced the fact that, you know, I played sport, you know, 10 years ago, and the landscape has just changed so much. So I'm recognizing and being mindful of an increased opportunity to make money, to professionalize, and especially at Ohio State, the elite level of performance that occurs here— opportunities are right around the door, and that can cause a lot of worry and fear about the future for some of our athletes.

Josh Bailey: 9:35

Yeah, absolutely. So then thinking about your all's roles there, what is it like? What is the day in the life, right, of a sports psychologist, right? What are you all doing? How are you getting involved? How are you connecting with the athletes and the teams.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 9:49

So it's really a balance of individual clinical work, and then more of team support, or team work in a performance setting. And so, the beginning of the day, I usually start with one of our practices— I work with football and men's and women's basketball. So I will observe practice, be available for folks who want to check in later. They'll usually ask like "Hey, are you going to be here after practice?" So really being available and accessible in a timely way. Eventually, we might get to some team skills where we're doing some mindfulness as a group, some breathing activities. Really helping them learn how to come down after high intense activity. And then, there's some clinical work involved in there as well. So that may be meeting with folks in the training room for those individual services. So it's a, it's a nice blend of, you know, being out at practice, being out at games, but also protecting the confidentiality of the clinical work.

Josh Bailey: 10:37

Another question that I have is looking at the identity piece of things again, and one identifying as an athlete. And again, I keep coming back to this transitioning out of athletics, because again, with 1,100 student athletes, we're not having 1,100 student athletes moving into the professional wing. Is that a lot of your all's time? I mean, you see, like, maybe seniors transitioning out, do you see a lot of that coming up? Or do you have to maybe prompt that with individuals, because maybe I don't think about it, or I don't want to think about it. And just kind of put it off.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 11:13

I would say, when I first got here, we were really trying to emphasize like a senior send off for different teams by having some programming available just for the seniors to talk about. You know, how to set up health insurance, how to find providers for yourself, how to build a schedule, for your day for work. What we recognize is that it's not enough to do that at the senior semester, Spring semester of your senior year. And so, we recognize that folks who are more engaged on campus, who are engaged in thinking about the future since their freshman year, tend to have a smoother, or at least a more supportive transition out, versus, you know, getting to the end and just starting to think about it. So yes, I think we're trying to encourage our athletes to be thinking about life after college in general, whether that's professional sports, or transitioning into the workforce. What a lot of our athletes talk about in terms of that transition out of sport is the transition out of the structure, and the support they received from different resources. And recognizing that transitioning out of college, they will be building those supports for themselves, those routines, those providers, their dentist, doctor, all of that. And so that takes some skill building. And so really encouraging, encouraging folks

at any level to be mindful of: 12:22

This is new. So we don't expect you to just figure it out immediately. But it's a process of trying out some different providers, routine schedules, nutrition, all of that, to find what it is that feels good for you as you get into the workforce and develop your own life really after college.

Josh Bailey: 12:40

Yeah. And I liked that you guys are starting that from day one. Because even, let's say that one does transition to you know, professional athletics, that is also a finite run, right? That's not a forever career that you're going to— that you're not going to go until you're 65 and then retire. Rather than— you think about the NFL, you might have three years before it's on to the next.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 13:03

Right. And that transition, even that three year, you know, if you get three years in the league, whatever league that is, it can come with a lot of uncertainty and worry. And so some of these contracts, what we're seeing for our former athletes is they're not guaranteed, they're not like,"Oh, three years and you're good to go." It's still requiring you to be mindful of your backup plans, your interests, your passions that you can develop outside of sport. Because it's often not this clear cut guaranteed timeframe that we're preparing athletes to go on to the next level for.

Josh Bailey: 13:33

Right, right. So nothing is guaranteed, and nothing lasts forever, if even for moments.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 13:40

Yes, that is very true.

Josh Bailey: 13:42

Let's talk about how athletes get connected with you. Are they prompted to come and speak with you and your team? Are they seeking it out on their own? How do people find out about you and the services that are available to them?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 13:56

I would say the primary way is by our efforts to be visible and accessible at practices. So at the beginning of each academic year, we make it a point to go around to the teams, showcase our services, talk about our providers, and how to get involved with us. We'll see a little, an influx of folks coming in after that, just says they're learning about this new resource. Often when we come throughout the seasons, and do different team talks about meditation or breathing activities, we'll get some follow-up questions about, "Hey, can I come meet with you and understand how to use that in my own routine?" And then of course, we rely on our partners. So our athletic trainers who are with our athletes every day, all day, essentially— our nutrition staff, our strength and conditioning coaches— if they start seeing concerns from athletes or athletes are coming to them with questions about their health, they may refer them to us that way. So it happens in a variety of ways. And we try to make it accessible for whatever experience you've had with counseling before. More and more athletes are coming in from high school with therapists, sport psychologists that they've already have a relationship with, which is incredible and I think speaks to a destigmatizing mental health, but there's still more work to be done.

Josh Bailey: 15:03

Right. And let's just continue with the idea of destigmatizing mental health. And something that you had alluded to earlier, is the increased rates of suicide amongst student athletes. Obviously a touchy and sensitive subject, but I'm curious, like, what are you seeing? And why might that be a stat? Why are we seeing a higher influx or a higher rate with student athletes?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 15:30

I think in general, with high performing, high achieving folks, it can be counterintuitive to ask for help, because you've you've gotten to where you are likely with skill, some help usually involved, and some grit. But then to encourage an athlete who's high performing to slow down and ask for help and show vulnerability in an area of their game that they could use some resources then can be really challenging. So sometimes I believe it's counterintuitive to the job at hand. So requires some skill building on learning when to ask for help, help-seeking behaviors with athletes tend to still be very low. And I think it's attributed to the fact that it's, it still feels counterintuitive. It feels like a threat, perhaps, to ask for help or a threat to their performance or their success. If they let someone in and show weakness to their minds with what is weakness.

Josh Bailey: 16:23

That sounds like that almost just even feeds more into the isolation. And the kind of closing oneself off that can perpetuate you know some of these ideas and perpetuate some of these behaviors is if I am acknowledging or admitting that I am not good enough in a specific area, or I am weak in a specific area, then again, if my entire identity has been elite, then all of a sudden I'm saying I am no longer elite in some aspects of my life. It seems to really perpetuate that.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 16:56

Absolutely. And I go back to that. It at times can feel like a threat to be vulnerable in that way, a threat to your success in game. But I think as athletes are recognizing the strength in letting people in and identifying resources and having an outlet for your emotions, they're realizing that it actually takes you further. If you take that moment to pause, and I call it an emotional lap. I got it from my favorite peloton instructor. But it's this taking, almost taking a knee in life. Taking stock of what's going on, what's your feeling, your internal climate, and then jumping back in. That can feel like a threat at first. But in the long run, you can actually go further. And so really encouraging these different concepts of how to slow down in a way that helps your performance, how to take a break in a way that supports your long term success.

Josh Bailey: 17:46

So if we think about recovery days, when we're conditioning, right? Then I also need to think about my mental and emotional pieces. Well, those need recovery days, those need attention, those need to have, you know, that gentle massaging to kind of keep things going in a way that I will maintain my status as an elite athlete and elite human. So how do students connect with you then like, are there ways for them to reach out to you and your team? Is there a website they can go to? Someone they should email or call? Do they talk to their coaches? Like how do they get connected with you?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 18:17

All of those ways, yes. So we do have a formal booking system that they can schedule on intake: go.osu.edu/spaws. S - P - A - W- S. So athletes on their own can set up appointments that way. If they are looking to consult, perhaps, they might talk to their athletic trainer or a strength and conditioning coach about their interest in setting up an appointment with us. And a stakeholder can get them connected with us. And then yes, they often have our contact information and an app,"Teamworks," that they all use, that they can simply just shoot me a text message and say, "Hey, I think I'd like to set a meeting up." And we'll take it from there. We're really trying to again, with destigmatizing mental health, it's— we're just setting up a consult, understanding what's going on, how can we support you in this in creating a plan?

Josh Bailey: 19:03

So Charron, is there anything that we haven't maybe touched on just yet that you think is pertinent or just good information to have? And this can be more broad too, not just to maybe student athletes, but to maybe friends or family that might be listening to this particular episode?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 19:17

I'll share something that I have been reminded of myself recently, is the power in being still. It has been challenging for me to find stillness and slowness, I tend to be an on-the-go person. Ready to go, you know, calendar to calendar, just flying through things. And so what I encourage our athletes to do with the schedules, with their sports, is create and carve out moments of stillness in their weeks. And that can look like a lot of different things, that it doesn't matter what kind of what you do in that moment. But the idea is that your phone's away, you're committing to 10 to 15 minutes of doing something completely unplugged. Could be stretching and foam rolling without your phone. It could be, you know, mindfulness. Taking a few moments to breathe, to be still. It could be going out for a walk, again without your phone. And so I think a big thing I've been trying to encourage people to do is unplug and find connection to your inner space really. I mean, and being able to unplug allows for that.

Josh Bailey: 20:12

Yeah. I like that. And again that that unplugging, right? It does force us to deal with ourselves, right? Really get in touch with like, my feels in that moment. Like, how am I feeling, because I can't just easily turn it off by scrolling through Tik Tok or one of my other, you know, apps or something like that. So, I liked that you point that out. And I liked that you kind of push that as a means of self care.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 20:38

Well, and as clinicians, I— or at least I'll often find myself searching through, you know, online resources for different meditations and different apps. But then I realized I'm no longer being present. I'm doing still, doing and trying to find something to be still for. And then that's counterproductive or counterintuitive to what I was going to do. So I've caught myself doing and trying to be still and so I'm really trying to be mindful to just be still.

Josh Bailey: 21:04

Have you found any particular strategy that has worked for you?

Dr. Charron Sumler: 21:08

The mornings. The mornings in the summer, and I say this summer now because we're like, in this between academic semesters, but getting to the sun in the morning has been incredibly helpful. It's not something I— I don't know if I'd say I enjoy doing it in the moment. It's the benefits afterwards. To like, write first thing in the morning, getting outside, going into the sun, just feeling it. And the morning sun, something about it just hits different. So I've been really enjoying that. And that's allowed me to kind of start my day with more groundedness.

Josh Bailey: 21:39

Nice, awesome. Thank you for sharing that. There's a free tip. If you're looking for something, try it out. Get up, watch the sunrise, feel it on your face for a couple of minutes. Change your deck. All right. Dr. Charron Sumler, thank you so much for coming, speaking with us today. I am going to hold you to that next episode, talking about NIL, name, image, likeness, and how that impacts student athletes to families, things of that nature. Because I think that, again, is a whole nother episode, a whole nother bucket of worms that is deep and vast.

Dr. Charron Sumler: 22:10

Absolutely. Taking care of our students, it takes a village and so I appreciate the work that you all do at CCS and I look forward to that next episode.

Josh Bailey: 22:17

Awesome. And to our listeners: Thank you once again for joining us. Keep your eyes peeled for our next episode. And until then, I've been Josh and this has been Psych Bytes with CCS