My guests in this first episode of a new series called Socratic Currents are Shannon Rowan, author of WiFi refugee plight of the modern day canary and Julia Lupine author of Under a Rock an Electrosensitive Survival Guide. We’re going to take a deep dive together on perhaps the most fundamental question of all – having to do with the words themselves. The words we’re allowed to use in public discussion, the words we choose to describe the great poisoning.
Shannon Rowan
WiFi Refugee Book
Shots Fired Book
Website
Julia Lupine
Under a Rock An Electrosensitive Survival Guide
Support this podcast here: https://www.emfremedy.com/donate/
Keith Cutter is President of EMF Remedy LLC
https://www.emfremedy.com/
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp8jc5qb0kzFhMs4vtgmNlg
Keith's Substack
The EMF Remedy Podcast is a production of EMF Remedy LLC
Helping you helping you reduce exposure to harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation in your home.
My guests in this first episode of a new series called Socratic Currents are Shannon Rowan, author of WiFi refugee plight of the modern day canary and Julia Lupine author of Under a Rock an Electrosensitive Survival Guide. We’re going to take a deep dive together on perhaps the most fundamental question of all – having to do with the words themselves. The words we’re allowed to use in public discussion, the words we choose to describe the great poisoning.
Shannon Rowan
WiFi Refugee Book
Shots Fired Book
Website
Julia Lupine
Under a Rock An Electrosensitive Survival Guide
Support this podcast here: https://www.emfremedy.com/donate/
Keith Cutter is President of EMF Remedy LLC
https://www.emfremedy.com/
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp8jc5qb0kzFhMs4vtgmNlg
Keith's Substack
The EMF Remedy Podcast is a production of EMF Remedy LLC
Helping you helping you reduce exposure to harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation in your home.
I want to host conversations with the afflicted, the ones who know they've been damaged by harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation. We get pushed to the margins of society and most just go away and die quietly, according to Dr Klinghart, but a few of us not only find a new life apart from the daily radiation exposures now considered normal, and then go on to make efforts toward helping other people. My idea, then, is called Socratic Currents, with a hat-tip to both Socrates and the currents which harm. I want to host open discussions based on questions, questions not being asked openly, questions that might lead to a better understanding of how we're all being affected. The point is not in the answer to the questions, but the discussion itself.
Speaker 1:My guests in this first episode of Socratic Currents Shannon Rowan, author of Wifi Refugee Plight of the Modern Day Canary, and Julia Lupine, author of Under a Rock an Electrosensitive Survival Guide. We're going to take a deep dive together on perhaps the most fundamental question of all, something to do with the words themselves. The words were allowed to use in public to describe the great poisoning coming up.
Speaker 2:EMF Remedy is dedicated to helping you understand which electromagnetic threats are present in your home and whether, in the context of your current home, when you're considering for purchase or building a new home with comprehensive protection designed in, emf Remedy can help you reduce your family's exposure to harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation.
Speaker 1:Hi, this is Keith Cutter with EMFRemedycom. I've got something super exciting for you today. We may have a formula here for an ongoing series and I want to tell you a little bit about that ongoing series. But I want to mention right up front that we're going to have a wonderful conversation with two very unique people and we're going to discuss an item of import to everyone suffering from what I like to call electromagnetic poisoning. So I've got just a few slides to share with you and then we're going to go ahead and get into what this is all about.
Speaker 1:The name of the series here is called Socratic Currents, all right, so the Socratic in Socratic Currents is a hat tip, of course, to Socrates, who sparked public debate on critical issues in ancient Greece by skillfully employing questioning. So he was always asking questions instead of making assertions. So right up front, I want to tell you we don't have the answer to all of the questions that we're going to be asking, but I hope through a thoughtful dialogue you can form your own opinion and maybe you'd like to share in the comments what you come up with. So I mentioned that Socrates sparked debate, and speaking of spark, not only of his genius, but the unnatural spark and the word current is part of non-native EMF. Socratic Currents, then, is meant to be a forum for people harmed by the reckless spread of non-native EMF in the environment and to foster a reflective dialogue by discussing important questions. With this in mind, I can't think of a better first discussion than how we speak about the people who are aware that they're being harmed by exposure to non-native EMF. They can feel it. It causes torment when the natural electromagnetic environment of the Earth is filled with harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation. The question for today is EHS or electromagnetic hypersensitivity, a productive or an unproductive label? Listen carefully to the discussion. Let me know your thoughts in the comments. How do you feel the answer is this issue is foundational because the words we use to describe these people will frame the bounds of public awareness. In fact, if we don't reframe the discussion already in progress for decades now, beginning with this specific issue, if we allow the adversary to control the language, then he can shape the thoughts. If he shapes the thoughts, he can dominate the discourse. If he dominates the discourse, then he can govern the masses in a matter which hides the danger of the reckless spread of harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation.
Speaker 1:There isn't anyone I would rather have with me on this first episode of Socratic Currents than Julia and Shannon. We are moments from beginning our discussion. Julia Lupine is the author of a new book called Under a Rock an Electrosensitive Survival Guide. Shannon Rowan, of course, wrote the popular book Wifi Refugee Plight of the Modern Day Canary. Last year she also published a new book called Shots Fired. I've interviewed both Julia and Shannon previously. You can find these interviews both on my audio podcast as well as on my YouTube channel. The last thing that I want to do before we begin this discussion with Julia and Shannon is to play a clip from a recent conversation I had last month with Arthur Furstenberg. He's the author of the seminal book the Invisible Rainbow A History of Electricity and Life. This clip begins to frame the discussion on today's important topic. Take a listen to Arthur's statement on what we call ourselves and how many are actually affected. Here we go.
Speaker 3:Few number of people who realize what's happening to us all. They can call themselves electromethetically hypersensitive. Nobody cares about us as long as you call yourselves hypersensitive. People think, oh, that's not me, that's just a few abnormal people with a medical problem. That's not me. But nobody thinks it's affecting them. They all are taking drugs and medications and having surgeries. They keep their cell phone in their hip pocket and they can't walk and the doctor tells them that their hips worn out to their hip replacements. They get pacemakers put in their hearts because they have heart arrhythmia. It's damaging people's vision. People are on sleeping medications and people have no clue why.
Speaker 1:All right, so here we go with our conversation. Is EHS a productive term? Here we go. Welcome to the EMF Remedy Podcast.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having us on. I have been using the term electrostensitive because we have to call ourselves something, but I think that words are powerful. They set an important first impression of how people perceive us, and there's something in that that makes it look like we're just too sensitive, we need to just toughen up, and that's not really the case. And also this is an issue that's affecting everybody. So it's a misleading term, because if it's just a few freaks like us that are being affected, then maybe nobody would care.
Speaker 4:But if they, you know all of these diagnosis that people are experiencing in the modern times, such as I mean the list goes on, but you know, from ADHD, bipolar anxiety disorder, depression, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, you know, all the way up to diabetes and cancer, which have been heart disease, which have been linked also to electromagnetic poisoning, and so they all. This, this force. It's affecting all of us, but it manifests in different ways to different people. Some of us become so-called electrostensitive and we consciously feel it viscerally, and others they may get long-term chronic conditions, and that's bad too. So we need different terminology to get our point across that this is a universal issue that everybody needs to be paying attention to.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I would say I agree with that.
Speaker 5:I mean I'll also use the term just because it's sort of like, well, that's, yeah, I mean it's this label we've been given, not really by our own choice. But when I was trying to figure out what was happening to me when I actually was also became like where I could really feel the effects immediately. I mean I had been feeling them. I realized in retrospect just when I was able to get away from the exposures. Then I could compare and contrast. I kind of did these like double-blind studies on myself with like feeling it and not, and I didn't really want to accept that I was getting affected by this. To be honest it was. I resisted that and, but then I couldn't deny it anymore when it just got more acute and I was feeling that and then I realized it was a gift to feel the effects and realize what was happening, because otherwise, yeah, it's going to manifest in something long-term either way, and so at least for me and other people who can feel this happening to them, they have a chance of getting away from it and doing something about it, and I did. My book is called Wifi Refugee Plight of the Modern Day Canary, and I know Julia and her book also mentions that we're like canaries and that we're the first ones to feel the effects of the like in the mind situation that this refers to canaries being used by coal miners at the turn of the 20th century, where they would use them because their birds, and these birds in particular, have like higher oxygen requirements and other birds, so they would feel when the oxygen levels would dip in the mind and they would stop singing or fall off their perch, and then the miners then, who weren't sensitive to that change, would know to leave. It was like because otherwise the longer they'd stay there, the less oxygen they'd get and they could just die and not even realize like they're dying, you know, until they're dead. And so this is, I think, what's happening to most people and we're the ones realizing what's happening and everybody else is just getting sick and dying and they just don't know why. And it's interesting the oxygen level parallel, because there is proof, I think pretty good proof, showing that these exposures actually mess with oxygen molecules and therefore do affect our oxygen ability to use, utilize oxygen in our bodies. So we are actually becoming oxygen deprived because of exposure. So there is a really good parallel there. That analogy is like really fitting.
Speaker 5:But also I want to say too, it is like this is the problem we've been forced to use this label because if we want to try to get help from the government for disability or anything, we have to and that's what they call it officially, officially. Even I learned I was learning it was. I heard electrosensitivity when I first learned about it and electrohypersensitivity, so I'd say I'd see ES and then EHS, and then I learned that if you want to pursue this legally, you have to say EMS and electromagnetic sensitivity, and this isn't really important. So I even, like, went, had an MD, medical doctor give me that diagnosis and label, which is something I want to point out in Julia's book in the early on in it she's this what that Wikipedia entry about well, I try to have a sense of the angering.
Speaker 3:I have to say I'm really angry reading it.
Speaker 5:I actually knew that it was like that, but I actually refused to look at it.
Speaker 5:I've heard about it and I'm like I can't deal with reading that like not you know, and so I read it in your book and I'm like, oh and, and the one thing that you mentioned why I was all wrong, except and they say in it that it's not a medically diagnosed thing. It is, though, and that's the other point in which they're completely wrong. I mean, you can get this medically diagnosed with people who understand it, doctors who know about it. Not, I want to get back to that, but I'm just saying you know that the UN also recognizes it as a functional impairment, thanks to Dr Allio Hansen's efforts. You know and this has been, I think, since 2010 that they recognize this, and all UN member states are supposed to accommodate people with this. You know who at least can say, who understand that they're getting affected, you know. That's why I want to point out. So they are trying to like, label us as different, and even to the point of I've never collected disability about for this. I know people who have. It's quite a battle for them.
Speaker 5:I just decided I didn't want to go there, I didn't want to spend my energy that way and it was going to be too taxing on me, and that's what happens. I did try it. The reason I got that diagnosis when I did was we had the smart grid coming in. We had found a safe haven in Arizona and we've been there a few years you know four years at the time and they were bringing the smart grid in and nobody wanted it and we all tried to stop it and I thought, well, let's go to fair housing, will go to HUD, will trial these avenues, you know. So I tried that and it just didn't work. In fact, first people were on our side of there, were other people in my valley, in the community, who were there for the same reason I was. We didn't know each other before. You know, you find each other when you go to the places to get away from it. Then you find there, other people there like you, because you thought you're alone. But then it's like oh, here's other people because we're trying to find this last remaining places, you know, away from these exposures. So, anyway, that's why I tried that, but it was exhausting and it didn't work out and in the end we just moved again and that's what a lot of people end up facing.
Speaker 5:But yeah, I'd say the only difference is between us and the rest of the population is that we know we're, we feel it more immediately and we know we're being harmed, whereas they don't have that gift I would call a gift in terms of sensing that and they could.
Speaker 5:I think they would notice if they actually got off all the drugs they were on that's numbing, that are numbing them, you know got out into the wilderness, away from exposures, felt the difference and I'll give an example.
Speaker 5:First of all, my partner, who's been with me this whole time and we're going on almost 10 years of this journey right, he did, stayed by my side and he actually had to make changes of course and his use of the technology because of me, and he never thought he was sensitive or, you know, so called sensitive. He never thought he was affected until he stopped using it and guess what he realized. It was the reason he was having heart palpitations at night because he was sleeping by a Wi Fi router. It was the reason he was having brain fog and in ADHD and headaches and, you know, just general malaise and anxiety. And he now knows that because he has the chance of getting away from it and so he's able to do that and and see that he's also so called sensitive. Now we want to stop and see what Julia is doing here.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, Julia has left her desk and you see that long pole that Julia has in her hand. This would probably be a good interlude where we can mention the horse you nail at the end. Yeah, you want to tell them what you're doing.
Speaker 4:The things we have to do to survive. So this is a device of my own invention. It I call it a pole flipper, but it's this eight foot one by two with a horseshoe nail at the end, and I use it to flip the switches on the breaker board in order to turn on, on and off power to various things, so I don't have to interact with it too closely. And I decided to turn on. My computer was running on battery and I turned it on. It's plugged into the wall, so I don't like being around it when it's on this, but I can deal with it for a little while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so being together on this zoom, it's amazing that we can get the three of us together to participate in an event like this and Julia is sitting away from her computer because and this is not really widely known by people unless they have an acute ability to sense their electromagnetic environment that computers themselves are really not safe to be around, right, julia?
Speaker 4:Right, but it's still. I used to have to hitchhike or walk 10 miles to get to town and then go sit in front of in the library at the Wi Fi and get a splitting headache after 10 minutes just to check, and I would have to do this just to check my email. I can only do it about every couple weeks or every month when I absolutely had to. So having this landline access here that I can usually use even on battery power and have such a low level of exposure compared to how it used to be, feels amazing to me.
Speaker 1:That's great. That's great. So I'm going to, I'm going to respond to, or actually just ideas I kind of jotted down while I was listening to Shannon and this whole thing about the label and seeking a label and actually, you know, going for that particular label. Is that a form of a shaming ritual? You know, I guess that would be a question I'll let one of you ladies respond to. When I, when I quit yacking here, but natural born, I had a question about so the three of us have lost significant time and focus in our lives and you know direction that we were headed with our careers and our relationships and whatnot. Basically, in different ways we ended up running for our lives.
Speaker 1:My own poisoning with electromagnetic non-native EMF began 39 years ago.
Speaker 1:It's just that I didn't realize it until sometime after three decades had passed.
Speaker 1:So I do now in my work, regularly interact with people and there are a lot of people out there who you know they're kind of ashamed to admit this sensitivity, I think because of the way that our culture has utilized its complete grasp on the media and controlling the dialogue and whatnot, to somehow smear people who have been poisoned in this way, which is a not thing to do as though it's some deficit, some defect within them.
Speaker 1:I wonder though you know, shannon, you had a great point about Sam and never realized he was sensitive, but then, since he's been living in a pristine environment, has realized that, and my wife, you know, had the same kind of. She's not well, actually, she is acutely aware after she spends time in an environment that's filled with manmade radiation. You know her sleep pattern that night is not as good. You know cognitive, you know whatnot. Maybe not to the degree of some of the clients that I work with, but I would agree. I think everybody suffers from it, and they just don't know if the person to your left and the person to your right all have brain fog. You know, it's kind of hard to establish a baseline, so I'll just put those thoughts out there.
Speaker 5:Yeah, actually want to comment on that and I wanted to say actually jokingly, but in a way seriously, I call EHS exploding head syndrome, because that was my main symptom was like and I thought it feels like yeah, when Sam's away in town we always say we're fry. After being in town today we're fried. He uses that terminology fried when we had to be evacuees from the fire for three weeks and you know, just live in the trailer in the beach where we had light of sign of line of sight towers. He let me. We only had the one near a bed in the trailer, little travel trailer. He let me sleep in that, which is more of a fair day cage, and he slept in the car.
Speaker 5:So he took the fall for me, like it usually does, but he was feeling suffering more because of it and by the end of that time was almost three weeks. I remember him saying it's happened, I've turned into a zombie like everybody else. I can't think anymore. It's just, it's too late. He just felt like it never go back to how it felt before, you know, and the palpable relief we feel coming home. I mean, of course, people, their homes are castle, they love their home. It should be a sanctuary, but I've never felt that living anywhere else we're like really felt that. I mean, some of the other places we've had on our journey have been a lot better and I did feel some of that. But where we are now it's like your body just relaxes and we were able to for the first time we've only socialized. Since we've been out here the last four years already, a few number of handful times was difficult for us to socialize and to be around, because you can't tell everybody to turn off all their stuff and you know. So you just try to like stick it out for a little bit. And we agreed to go to a friend's house who's aware of my so-called condition and have like some plays of music together for musicians and I just said, made sure. He said, yeah, I'll turn the Wi-Fi off. I'm like, can all that make sure all the wireless stuff is off? So we made sure and I started to feel a little better.
Speaker 5:At first I was like you know, and it never was perfect because I'm sure there's dirty electricity and some other things going on there. But you know, especially his girlfriend and she's she's said to me she feels like the stuff bothers her and she. They went on a camping trip and she came back she said and this is her word she said I just lost my shit. I'm she's like, I can't, I couldn't take being here. And this is them going home.
Speaker 5:You know, you think after camping or in the wilderness and stuff, you want to go home and like you're like, oh good, I'm home. But she was like I just the phones and the Wi-Fi and just like the demand on her. You know, like the beeping and the, not even like necessarily noticing the fields. But after we were there a couple of hours she's like gosh, it feels really different in here. She's like there's this I don't know to call it like a spaciousness, she's like something opened up and it's like just realizing that there's always this kind of pressure and it's definitely a pressure and the varying degrees of that are sensed by different people, for if they're aware of it and like you, keith, I definitely suffered the poisoning for decades earlier but didn't know why I had these chronic problems. You know, I want to hear about this a little more.
Speaker 1:I haven't heard about this. Tell me about, and you know, I only realized over time how far back this went because of the following when I finally got in my case, I created a pristine environment, but after living in that pristine environment for a while, all of these medical symptoms that I had for decades in my case, that told me how far back this poisoning went.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, talk, talk a little bit about that how far back it went for you, and then we need to get back on it's hard to say, because even as a child I had some problems with my health that were like not understood, you know, and joint pain, frequent fevers, you know, things like that, easy bruising, like just you know, I mean I was an active kid and I just kind of pushed through. But in our culture we learned to push through and that's kind of what I knew. I realized when I started, when it got so acute, that I had been doing that and for a while, you know, I'd been ignoring it because we're just you know, we have to toughen up and fight it right and just keep going anyway. And I mean I've been in jobs where you don't eat, you don't sleep, you know, you just push through. You got to do the job while you're on the job, with commercial photography, shoots, you know. I mean just ridiculous kind of conditions that. And I was young enough I'm like, well, I got to, I got to make the money, I got to, like, make a name. I got to climb the ladder, I got to do this crappy job, even free of charge, sometimes for internships, you know.
Speaker 5:But like I, but when I was living in I felt better, sometimes in other countries. I lived in other countries and some of them, my symptoms cleared up there. But then, of course, you know, I now I know to look back at like what were those exposures and I felt better when I was. I actually lived off grid for a while, no electricity. I felt great there. I was working on some farms in Ireland and I was like, wow, it feels great to sleep without electricity. And my friends are kind of teasing me like what are you doing living out there without electricity? And this is modern age, like you don't have a car, electricity with you. I'm like it feels great, you know.
Speaker 5:And then the combat every time I come back to the States I end up back in like the city, new York City, or Baltimore or Washington DC, primarily so I'd you know, last was the Washington DC which which I was there 12 years and then that's when I really got hit with this. Or you know, and I had found out later that it was the most electrically polluted city in our country. That's what the you know consider it. It was considered that so, but I had stuff like Lyme disease, you know. So like supposedly had Lyme disease. Even did some treatments for that had like chronic fatigue, chronic joint pains, start to have the headaches and insomnia, two years of insomnia problems before.
Speaker 5:And this is me eating health foods, you know, like organic, exercising, not drinking, not taking drugs, like wanting to be healthy so badly and trying so hard and getting a lot of exercise. And then you know, and you could go to a conventional doctor. They're just like, you're healthy, like you know, because their standard of health is so low. And I'm just like, but what's wrong with me? I used to try to go to all different doctors, try to find out what's wrong with me, doing scans sometimes and things you know, trying just so many different things. I tried and wait.
Speaker 5:I could not gain weight and I really related to reading Julia's book, like her, you know, at her worst, when she was most poisoned, being really underweight. And that was me. And I'm like, why can't I? I got down to I'm six feet tall. I got down to 120 several times, which is not good, he's scary. I'm like 150 now and I'm at my healthy weight now, you know, and this has only happened. So I used to compromise, to be happy with like 135. I'm like, if I can kind of stabilize here, I know I should be like 145. 155 would be better.
Speaker 5:You know, and I had that few times in my life and only since we've lived where we do now, where there's no electricity in the house. Because even in Arizona, when we had electricity, we kept filtering, we kept having dirty electricity issues because of farmers irrigating near us and the you know power lines close by and everything. And I'm like, oh, I gained weight. I didn't do anything different, like, but in the Lyme, all the Lyme symptoms I had, all these other symptoms I had for years, candida, yeast problems and everything gone and I didn't change anything else. You know, I tried all these diets and things before and I didn't change anything.
Speaker 5:And to me it has to be that and what I've learned from Arthur first and Berg was that early days of discriminating electricity, some people lost weight immediately in these fields, just gone. You know, sitting for like half an hour lost weight they could measure. You know, an hour, half an hour in these fields losing weight. So obviously I mean so there are obviously there's physiological differences between all people where you're going to get affected differently, because this is something that can affect you at your cellular level. Hence to me the name cell phone.
Speaker 5:You know, like you were, it's just like going into your whole biology and like so if you have, your weakest point is going to be where you're going to see that effect. You know so, and this is like lots of different things can poison us. So we're up against a lot. But. But there used to be, and I tell people I will say it's called the Hs. Every time I tell people about it I say it is. They call it electrohypersensitivity now, but it was called microwave syndrome at one point and microwave sickness at one point.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 5:So I always say that because I'm like you know. I mean I was a threshold level. I wasn't. I mean, like I said also, I did feel the cell phone always always, always bothered me when I used it. I had I was an early adopter because of a job I had, didn't like it, so I kind of felt, thought I learned a little bit at the time about maybe it's dangerous, so I try to minimize my time on it it always heated. I felt a heating sensation on the side of my head where I'm using it and I like so I'd use it hands-free. I always maintained a landline so I didn't have to use that. But there was a difference between what I felt then and was bothering me and what I felt when it got so acute with. I think the only way I can explain it is threshold levels, right, like there's a look, and the fact that we compensate. We don't adapt to it and this is an important point we compensate, our bodies are compensating for these exposures. So people who think they feel okay are compensating. Eventually you can't compensate anymore and something gives and I think that's just like tipping point and into full blown, just like cannot tolerate it. And my first year of that was like and I relate to. I think Julia has some similar stories in her book which she shares as well. I mean, both share ours are. Both our books are like semi-autobiographical.
Speaker 5:I couldn't the first whole year after we got away. I thought at first I just need to get away from wireless, but then I realized it was everything. It was like the, the refrigerator, it was the electric stove, it was the car and I had to sit in the back seat of the car too. So I'm driving, or I had a pole, like Julia has, for the accelerator. I mean, I know I shouldn't tell you if I did this, but when I drove I learned that sounds sketchy. I actually did that for a while. I couldn't touch that pedal. It would just like radiate up my leg. I'd feel this terrible sensation.
Speaker 5:All right, let's get back centered on the label on this thing?
Speaker 1:And yeah, we were talking about how, you know, is accepting this label just a shaming ritual and you know, I understand, everybody understands that EHS or EMS or whatever is the label that they want to use and it is the label that is in the research. I get all that, but I kind of think we're silly to to go along with that. But, julia, what are your thoughts? This point in the discussion?
Speaker 4:All right. Well, I think that there's way too many labels in our culture and there's way too many identity politics and everyone has to call themselves something and maybe we're all dealing with the same problem and that these labels are just a way of obscuring this force that's a major factor in everybody's problems. So, as far as going to going to doctors in the shaming ritual, so when when I was younger, I was had a similar story to Shannon's, with all of these problems and diagnosis I was trying to in Lyme disease and anxiety and all of these things, I was trying to figure out what they were and going to doctors and specialists and trying to figure it out. So but one of the first things I did was in my late teens.
Speaker 4:In my teens and early 20s I was so called bipolar and I went the medical group and I over time realized that well, for one thing they just make you feel like horrible because and at least back then now it's almost mental illness, is almost glorified now and that has its own problems. But back then it was a considered a very shameful thing and I hid my pill bottles in my purse and didn't want to tell my friends about it. But I pretty quickly realized that the doctors didn't know what they were doing at all and they were just throwing all of these pills at me to deal with the side effects of the side effects of the, of all of the different random things they were giving me, because they, you know, I just felt like being experimented on by mad scientists, and but they did stop certain symptoms and I have a feeling that people who are over-medicated and all the on all these pills, like, maybe they would if they stopped taking them, maybe they would have serious problems and they would actually be electrosensitive. Um, that's one theory on that. And I mean, some of the things I took were anti-seizure medication. They could have actually been saving my life, possibly, but they came at a cost and anyway, I got got rid of all that in my really early 20s and started going the holistic route but still had some substance abuse problems with mostly just alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. But now, so now a fast-forward 41 years old, have no medical problems that I can think of at the moment.
Speaker 4:Once in a while my wrist hurts from milking too many goats, um, but no.
Speaker 4:I pretty much don't have any problems now. I don't have anxiety, I'm the least bipolar person I know, I'm pretty level-headed and uh, yeah, but the shaming ritual. So I so, a few years back I tried, I tried to get um disability for EHS and I went to a series of a few different doctor appointments that were extremely painful to me because they were in a large city and I had to sit there with wi-fi and somebody was spraying that waiting room. I remember one time with insecticide. I asked them to stop. But you know, obviously there were, it had been sprayed before and there were all these horrible chemicals just the things we deal with to survive. So I you know, of course, like usual, just drank a bunch of strong coffee and got through it, but, um, it ended up all being for nothing anyway because, um, oh, and I wore, um, I had this EMF blocking suit that at the time I'd figured out that it had no effect, but I decided to wear it anyway because I thought maybe they would just think I was crazy and maybe they would give me disability for that. But that didn't even work.
Speaker 4:Um, and you know, and I'm pretty, whatever, I'm pretty thick skinned, I can deal with people thinking I'm crazy and don't really care, but it's still like you just have to. It is like, yeah, it's like you just have to not let it get you down, and then, yeah, and then it still had no effect. So yeah, as far as um labels like we do, I think we need to call it something because there's there are differences on the biological level between us and other people. I mean, I can't open a refrigerator without getting a my when it's on, without getting a splitting migraine, headache and just not even being able to talk and going to town I risk from the risk of crashing my car because I can't see or whatever. So there there's differences and I need to explain to people that that that I have this condition, but at the same time, uh, yeah, like everything that Keith brought up before in the introduction, that it is a counterproductive label because, you know, hypersensitive, it gives people the wrong opinion. Um, but the reality.
Speaker 1:I just want to say one thing in that regard, and then I want to let you continue. Is you know, what I I think Arthur Furstenberg has helped me really realize is that it's not that we're sensitive, you know, hypersensitive, it's that we're sensitive to a deviation from what is normal. So the earth has a normal electromagnetic environment. It's a very complex electromagnetic environment. So 130 volts per meter, roughly 300 000 volts, from the surface of the earth up to the ionosphere, that is a very powerful electric field, but it's direct current and we only use alternating current, which is totally foreign to nature, does not exist anywhere in nature. And then there's this incredibly strong magnetic field. We all know this, we just it's part of our consciousness but we don't think about it because a compass works I can't do anything because a compass works right anywhere on the earth that that compass is going to point towards that very strong magnetic field.
Speaker 1:And then there is a a variable intensity magnetic field, or a series of magnetic field called the Schumann resonance. That is the environment that was created for us, or we were created for that environment. So what it is that we perceive is a deviation from what's normal. In other words, we're the only ones that seem to be able to tell that there is this unnatural radiation. So is that a hypersensitivity or is it a proper sensitivity to what is natural? And has everybody else lost the ability to not tell what is natural? And I would just throw in when Julia's done you know, there are peoples who were able to navigate across hundreds of miles of featureless landscape and across waters without any kind of instruments for a long time, and we've lost that, but anyway, I just wanted to interject that and Julia, please continue.
Speaker 1:But we're, yes, we're sensitive, but we're sensitive to unnatural radiation. We're great, Everybody was great, I would say in the natural. So sorry for interrupting.
Speaker 4:Well, maybe we should just come up with a term for all of them instead of a term for us, since they're the ones with the problem? They don't. They're lacking the sense that we, that normal people have.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll pursue that.
Speaker 5:The problem is normal. The term normal because anything could be normalized and like, and dysfunction is now normalized of all kinds.
Speaker 5:So it's, it's their dysfunctional, their numb, you know, and that's normal, and they're unwell and so, yeah, we're, we're actually just trying to get I feel like I'm just trying to get to a place of wellness, of wholeness, of connection with Earth and hope. That would be nice if that was a normal state, but obviously it isn't. I think it's the desired state and what is a natural state and what should be, but we're being taken away from that connection. Sorry, julia, you had more to say than that.
Speaker 4:Well, gary has the term advanced sensory discriminatory capability, asdc and that probably sums it up better than any of the other terms that I've heard. But, it's a lot of words and it might be too hard for normal people to remember. Yeah any way of shortening that?
Speaker 1:Give that, to give that to everybody once again, and then maybe just mention who Gary is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so advanced advanced sensory discriminatory capability, or ASDC for short. And yeah, the term that Gary Duncan came up with and he's he's a writer and researcher and brilliant, eccentric guy who lives out here and educates for free. He was the one who was instrumental in showing, you know, show, showing me what was going on, because I had no idea. I was living in the dark ages, under a rock and couldn't even research anything on the internet. But Gary showed up and gave me all this literature and just told me there's nothing wrong with me, you just have advanced sensory discriminatory capabilities and the rest of the masses don't. And he said a lot of other things too, that were very colorful, and compared it to sewage being flung from the windows of medieval castles. You know the way that we're dealing with our electromagnetic pollution in the modern age, and so, yeah, very as well.
Speaker 5:I just want to say that we met him, you know, when we were out there in the desert.
Speaker 4:Sorry, yeah, I mean, that's it. So yeah, basically, the dilemma here is what to that? We need to call ourselves something. But you know, we also don't want to focus.
Speaker 4:I mean, I guess the idea maybe we don't need to call it anything the, the we don't really need the focus to be on us people and really the masses would be focused on themselves instead, because they're the ones with the, instead of these poor people like us who have a problem. If they could just realize that they have a problem and that they would have a lot less of a problem if they would turn off Alexa and turn off their voice by, they'd instantly have a lot less problems. And we, you know, and if this was implemented on a mass scale, that would be amazing and things would suck a lot less out there. If just a few people would, if people would just start start using these solutions. So, but yeah, but words are powerful, words are magic. So we've got to figure out, you know how to say it right and in a few words as possible, because people have short attention spans.
Speaker 5:I think it might help to just say that, like well, I have these symptoms and I realized that why. And now I don't have them. That's why I stay away from that stuff, because, especially when you tell people what they are, sometimes I was like, yeah, I have that too. Like yeah, so now I know that I'm like, I realized it was because I was getting poisoned by these electromagnetic fields and now I feel great. You know, now I'm like so much better and I just know when I feel them that like when I'm around them, I just get these symptoms again. I feel worse. I mean, definitely, if you can discuss it with people, you can do that. And I want to just point out that you know, when we're talking about the labeling, that this came up before in our history with electricity and it was somebody I have this in my book made a connection with. There was something they were calling neurostenia. Do you know how to say that correctly?
Speaker 1:Yeah, neurostenia.
Speaker 5:Okay, I've only seen it written here it talked about, but this was like right when electrification was happening in the late 1800s, people were starting to have these symptoms that were just kind of like, well, what we call now they're calling it electrohypersensitivity, but it's just like, you know these nerve, like these symptoms affecting their nervous systems and mood and sleep, and you know fatigue and all this and like this chronic stuff that everybody's dealing with now, basically diseases of modern civilization. And then somebody made a connection with electricity, and you realize that, and this is why I want to, if I can read this quote to my book from aren't? That's a RNDT, he said. He proposed that a large obstacle to the proper study of neurostenia was that people who were less sensitive to electricity did not take its effects at all as seriously. And so he said, they placed them in the realm of superstition, lumped together with clairvoyance, mind reading and mediumship. And so he realized, well, people are getting affected, but, and he said, even the weakest galvanic current so weak it scarcely deflected the needle, the galvanometer and the slightest by other people bothered them in the extreme. So there are people who couldn't tolerate it from the beginning, right away, you know, and just felt that.
Speaker 5:And again, this is where we always come back to why some of us feel and some of us don't. Now the point is, I didn't think I was feeling it before. You know, I was using all these things, I didn't make the connections. I think at the time it would have been easier for people to make connections when they didn't have any of these exposures around them, and some of them, but still some of them, felt that, some of them didn't, so why didn't the other ones feel it? Were they? Were they drinking a lot of alcohol? Were they taking I don't know, you know what? Were they taking? The medications at the time that were available? And so I think that was the point that was made and brought forward that electricity was causing this explosion of neurasthenia.
Speaker 5:Freud. Sigmund Freud renamed it to as anxiety neurosis, making it a psychological thing, and this is what we're happening and now is having just now, and I had a friend who said why don't you go? He needed to get disability, because the problem is we end up not being able to work when, when all jobs require cell phones and you know, and these exposures like these days, that's what it comes down to, and if you can't even live in town and you can't I mean you can't get a job right.
Speaker 1:So we're having or even if there's a cell phone tower anywhere nearby, right?
Speaker 5:There's so many places we can't be. So how are you supposed to work? And you can't even work from home a lot of time if you, if you can't get a safe connection and you can't even be on the computer that long even then? So I had a friend who was dealing with this, living out of his car at the time, who also had another label I want to bring this up is MCS, multiple chemical sensitivity, and I have that to a lot of people, you know. I mean have it in that I've always I've always probably been a little more, you know, felt the exposures to chemicals more cutely than the MF, until you know anyway. But there's a. It's like two sides of the same coin. Usually people relate to feeling one more than the other, but they have both of these together.
Speaker 5:And but the point is that these chemicals are known to be hazardous. Hazardous. They are known to have volatile organic compounds in them and to affect us physically. They are poison. They are classified as poison. So why I'm? I'm sensitive to poison. I mean, that's what we're saying about electromagnetic fields, I'm sensitive to poison, same thing. And radiation, as poison it is, there's no benefits from it. We all, the studies we have. Show harm, show that it's a poison you know so to say that we're sensitive to poison.
Speaker 5:I mean it's kind of like right yeah, what you what?
Speaker 1:Let me just kind of tag on to that. Yeah, you know. Let's imagine that we were all in a room together and 50 other people and somebody began piping in carbon monoxide. So I know for my previous career that everybody in that room is going to fall at some point. But would you pick out the two or three people who fell first and call them carbon monoxide sensitive?
Speaker 1:or cyanide, or you know vinyl chloride, or you know whatever it, whatever it may be, and and then I just I shared this with with you guys when we were planning for this, but I haven't shared it on air I don't think I have to so I've got an intro in my podcast every week, and I have two kinds of clients.
Speaker 1:One is the families that want to be proactive, take a precautionary approach to the family's exposure, and then I've been wanting to contrast that, and so, lately, I've been playing with the wording a little bit. So I say, whether you're wanting to take a precautionary approach to your family's exposure to harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation, or you're well attuned to your environment and you're able to sense deviations to the natural electromagnetic environment caused by man-made radiation, and therefore and then I go on from there the reason I bring it up at this point, though, is you just brought up the whole MCS issue, and it's interesting to me that this would fit with MCS as well. You are well attuned to the natural environment and you're able to sense deviations from the natural environment, both in the electromagnetic dimension and, I think in both of your cases, in the chemical dimension.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and this is the interesting thing about that too. When people, the same thing happens when they're overwhelmed with chemicals all the time, and fragrance isn't everything they use and everything they can't tell the difference of. Like if they stopped using that stuff and they'd smell it, they would be sensitive to it again. That's my point. So there's this kind of numbing thing that happens with the use of these products that are harmful, and so it makes it. I mean people are suffering from using the products. For sure there's no way they're not, because we're all biological.
Speaker 5:I always try to tell people that we have different levels of tolerance to things so-called tolerance. But again we're making compensations. And so do you want to just keep poisoning yourself and see how long you can go for and say you're fine or whatever, and then die early or just have a very compromised existence where you don't function at full capacity what you could be functioning, and it's robbing us of that. But I wanted to just not forget to say this. I was going to get to earlier, as my friend said. Well, he ended up just saying it's like I said. You know, you could get disability by saying that you're depressed, because that way, because it does cause depression to be having to live out of your car and the ones who are not being able to get a job and everything, and I was like, no, I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 5:I'm like I do not want that label, because then I have this mental illness label, even if it's causing depression and whatever it's like, because then you're labeled that and then the state actually can have certain powers over you.
Speaker 5:It puts you in a position that they like well, locked away. I mean it's less common now but there's definitely been times in our history where people get locked up for the littlest thing, especially women, for being hysterical happened to my grandmother. She was institutionalized for 15 years because of having bipolar disorder. Supposedly For that they've kept her locked her away. Can you imagine today, bipolar people getting locked away? I mean this is like that's how they dealt with it and it was sort of like and I wonder, I always wonder about that diagnosis and but yeah, and it's just this, you know, and talking about mood and being even killed or not, like it's.
Speaker 5:I also felt when I lived in the city with these exposures I would get like maybe called bipolar. You know I would get periods of like intense depression and then like also anger or hyperactivity. You know hyper, the other side of it just not just swinging, you know, from pendulum swinging from like one extreme to the other, but when you come away from those exposures your pendulum starts to calm down and like doesn't swing like that anymore because you get to be steady. And you know I mean that we always talk about grounding, like there are easy terms like if you're grounded and you can be calm and even. But that grounding is because that's we're talking about the earth's like electromagnetic field and that calms us and it keeps us from swinging like that and it keeps us from this like extreme moods and extreme behaviors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of hints in the, in the language. You're grounded, you're well grounded. That guy has his head in the clouds, or that person over there is very down to earth. No, I think all of these could potentially be viewed as electromagnetic in nature. Julia, what do you? What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4:on grounding or anything.
Speaker 1:We're not letting you get a word in here.
Speaker 4:I think electric. Well, I think electrosensitivity. Ehs and MCS are, first of all, I think they're the same thing because we all, pretty much universally all, react to both. I'm worse with the electricity, but I mean, if somebody, if a, if a normie came in here to right now, I could smell them across the room, you know, and I think it's disgusting. I don't pass out or anything, but I don't want to be around that. So I just open the windows and you know so.
Speaker 4:But in the past, in high school, I used to spray myself down with hairspray and perfume every day and not even notice and had a bad sense of smell and I didn't know that, you know, but I also wasn't at, wasn't really that functional either. So I, yeah, so I think it's just that they're two. I like the way that Keith explained it earlier about about those two things, about how we're well attuned to our well attuned to deviations in our environment, and if there was some way of shortening that to encompass both EHS and MCS, you know to to describe people that like us, who, who, yeah, who are well attuned.
Speaker 5:They comment on that. I want to know that this part of the problem, I see, is that our society no longer values any kind of sensitivity, right and so, and it becomes your problem, like you're the anomaly you, it's not my problem, it's your problem again. Like that focus always comes back to us and I think we even I know we probably all went through this. Maybe is just me and I need to fix me and you know, maybe is a genetic problem. Like I mean, I know there's been a lot of focus lately on like this MF or whatever that.
Speaker 4:MF T.
Speaker 5:MF H. I'm sorry, but always when I look at it it looks like it says mother.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 5:I was like, oh, you must have that gene. That's why all this is going wrong in your body, you know. And it's like what if? If there is even a gene like that or whatever, how do I know which came first? The microwave poisoning, you know? Because obviously, like, again, we all can relate to somewhat having lived in a normal way among normal people, spraying ourselves with stuff and whatever and using cell phones, you know, and so like, did I have the gene then? But now, I mean, now I have it, why do I have it now? And so, anyway, I don't like to focus on that because, again, it's just trying to say these people are freaks.
Speaker 1:And they're not worthy of consideration.
Speaker 5:Yeah, not worthy, it's not worth it.
Speaker 4:We don't want them trying to change our genes or anything pointing to genes. They might say well, you know, I've got a pill for that or a shot to get rid of this MF or gene and you know, we. So we probably should direct the attention away from that area.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean right, because that what's the solution. Then like more drugs more you know, right, and that's more.
Speaker 5:I mean, yeah, so we're just like. But my point is that I think that at some point at times in history and among certain people, sensitive people were revered. Shamans, you know, people with clairvoyance, like people who could see and feel things maybe other people couldn't, were revered. And but if we did that today, it would destroy profits for certain industries that are causing the problem. But if we were actually taken seriously which is why I'm called as canaries a lot is like people care about you know the canaries are telling you something like that means you should listen, because that means you will get affected, if you haven't been already.
Speaker 5:At the point is that we're ashamed, we're hidden away, we're not helped. You know it's like because we're not there's, they feel like it was not enough of you, so it doesn't matter. Just collateral damage and I've heard that term before like, literally, the industry sees us that way. Well, it's only this percentage of people that might be harmed that to that degree and, you know, fall off their purchase and then also kill themselves because they can't take it anymore. And that's fine, because that's not the majority, because it's this mindset of like it only the group matters, not the individuals in the group.
Speaker 1:Let's go ahead and start to move towards a close any any final thoughts on. You know we haven't really come up and I said at the introduction, the point of this whole exercise was not to come up with the answer but to put some attention into it and Also to talk about the constellation of issues that really surround this and all the little data points that are coming into all three of our minds as we discuss this. This is not a simple issue. I think it's important that what we're discussing here is discussed in other places. I think, frankly, that the term EHS is a gatekeeper term because of the access to research. That's what everything is filed under Disability if people want to pursue that. We did talk about this idea of if you're well attuned to your environment. That really seems to be the core of chemicals and manmade radiation. Maybe some other things that we're not thinking about right now. I want to give you, ladies, the opportunity to any final thoughts on this topic.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think the sensitivity. When I think about the sensitivity, it's also the implication that that could be changed for you. You could be helped, you could be fixed, you could become less sensitive. Maybe we could make you not sensitive anymore. That's the problem, not that we're poisoning you or you're being poisoned. I don't want that to be fixed. I don't want to not know. I'm being poisoned.
Speaker 5:In a way, I've learned to also see it as a gift. At the same time, there's a resiliency that's built by being away from exposures. That helps me to deal with it when I do have to be exposed. I've built up a resiliency Only by. To me, the main thing I've tried all kinds of other things with diet, detox and whatnot it's been to avoid. It has built my resiliency because when your body is no longer under threat and no longer being poisoned and messed with like that and stimulated by these fields, it can recover itself.
Speaker 5:It doesn't need anything else. You recover enough to be able to handle another hit like you're being attacked. Basically it feels like you can then go, say you're in a boxing ring and you're getting hit and hit and hit. If you get to go rest and recover from all your bruises and everything. You could go and get to the next round and get hit again. If you don't get to recover, then obviously you're going to go down. You're not going to get up again.
Speaker 5:To me, it's all about that recovery time which most people just aren't getting. That's why it's manifesting in cancers and all kinds of other chronic diseases exploding right now. It can't be a coincidence. We could talk about the addiction some other time, but again, this label is just hard because, number one, people don't value sensitivity like I think used to be. You see it all the time, with just the funding that's not given to the arts, anything that we might consider something to do with human sensitivity art, music, writing, poetry not important anymore. The jobs that are focused on now is you just need to be able to be like a robot? If you can write code, then great. Otherwise we don't want you.
Speaker 5:I think that everybody should be noticing that. How is this affecting the whole of our culture and society? That sensitive people are not reviewed and that they're seen as freaks or a problem, just the problem to deal with, and not someone who can help you, who can actually enrich your life by being connected with them, who can teach you something and show you something you can't see, or maybe you can't feel yourself and learn from them. It's hard because I think, like you said, there's people who come to you who want to be proactive, which is amazing, which is great.
Speaker 5:It's rare, though, I think, because I think that, like most of us were driven to get away and to make big changes in our lives through severe pain, that was a real motivator. I know Gary said that to me a lot about the pain. For him, the knowledge didn't move him, the information didn't do anything, it was the pain that did it. So, in that way, it's a blessing that we went to that level, because would I have changed otherwise?
Speaker 5:I think, as much as it's not convenient, my lifestyle is much richer, the way I live now, even though I'm poorer. I don't have the income at all, I don't have the means to make the income I used to. I struggle with financially and I live without electricity in my house and would stove, and we didn't even have plumbing for a year. There was just like I've done. These things lived this way that most people would not, they would definitely shy away from, but honestly, it's a better life and I would not have sought it, unless I had to. So yeah, I don't know, julia, I'm sorry. I don't know if I have anything else to say, but yeah, Okay, well, there was this one.
Speaker 4:there's one point I want to bring up. It's kind of a side tangent, but I think it's important. So there's this term, hsp, that we're seeing a lot these days highly sensitive person. I despise that term, but anyway, are you guys familiar with that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's new, it's in my book.
Speaker 5:Actually it's in my Wifi Rehergy book. I wrote about it because I read the book called the Highly Sensitive Person, something or Aaron, something or her name out.
Speaker 4:I don't remember that part.
Speaker 5:I mean yeah, go ahead. What do you want to say about?
Speaker 4:it. Yeah, it seems to be kind of obscuring. I think they're missing the point and I'm seeing a lot of people identifying as highly sensitive people these days and they're obviously elect or sensitive at least a lot of them probably are but they're convoluting it with. They get overwhelmed if they're in crowds or in a lot of people or they freak out or get too much sensory overload or they might cry a lot or whatever, or get emotional sensitivity is tied into that too, and not all of us are highly emotionally sensitive. I don't really cry a lot but yeah, this term and obviously, yeah, I think they're just pretty much electorate, you know, dealing with a lot of the same issues as we are, except that they're stuck in the fields and still addicted to social media and cell phones and everything else, but it's beginning to gain, it seems to be gaining acceptance this term.
Speaker 4:And yeah, I just want to see what are you guys' thoughts on that?
Speaker 5:I think it's a bad thing and that it's convoluting our you know what the point that we're trying to make, and you know in the popular, in the popular consciousness, is, you know it kind of reminds me of the autism thing and that's exploding and then it's like, well, these autistic people are special and we're just going to not look at what's poisoning them, you know, causing their pain, but we're just going to, like, put them on a pedestal or something or, like, you know, maybe do some things to accommodate them, give them some earmuffs and sunglasses, but I don't address the fact that they're being poisoned and they're reacting to that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I thought about I'm considering going on a couple of HSP podcasts and I have really mixed feelings about that, because I want to tell them what the real problem is, or at least give them the tools to look into it for themselves, but I also don't want to be associated with that, so I'm really on the fence. We'll see.
Speaker 5:Yeah, because you can also see the positive side might be oh, we're starting to, maybe we're starting to review your sensitive people.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 5:But God, it reminded me something. I want to say that oh, we're actually. The funny thing about the sensitive label is that think about how resilient we all three of us actually are and what we've been through Most people could not deal with. Who's the sensitive one? You know? Like people like shame us, they make fun of us, they ridicule us, our friends leave us for they say we're crazy, or families abandons us. We lose our jobs, we live, we're homeless and and like we're sensitive.
Speaker 4:We're very strong. I killed my own Thanksgiving for Christmas turkey this year, you know, and and you know I sleep outside and freezing weather and deal with heat and flies and 153 days in the summer, so we just yeah, so sensitive doesn't seem like the right word.
Speaker 3:Right right.
Speaker 4:I'm almost the opposite. But but yeah, I get a, get a cell phone in the same room with me and you know, it kind of knocks me out.
Speaker 5:Yeah, cryptonite.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Super heroes, but there's the kryptonite. Yeah, it's everybody's. Kryptonite is the thing, and that's what people need to understand. We could all be like so powerful and resilient.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if we weren't constantly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I, um, yeah, thinking about what you two have said with regard to highly sensitive people, I guess my thought about that would be that something has been stolen from everybody on the planet. You know, 98% of people have a smartphone and most, probably more than that, live where there's a cell phone signal, and the thing about that technology is it doesn't go off with the powers, you know when the power fails due to electrical storm or something. So people really don't have that opportunity to see a contrast, and that's where a lot of my clients come from is somehow they get a contrast, either by going somewhere really far away in nature and they feel completely different, or they get far enough out in the country, whatever. But yeah, I feel like, with regard to highly sensitive people, it's just a rebranding. Everybody's had something stolen from them, and that is the ability to function normally in a normal environment. And so sure. Why wouldn't you marginalize those people who still have that capacity to sense or to live well?
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's one way of looking at it, it's done to Native Americans by like the encroachment, you know, with everything, with civilization, so-called you know, and how they were marginalized and then put down and called savages and put into these camps and poisoned with the white man's food, the alcohol and the flour and everything Instead of like, and they were highly sensitive people, I'm pretty sure, because they were able to live in like with conditions that most of us can't imagine living in and thriving that way and you know, and being really healthy and really strong. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. Well, what do you guys think? I think this is pretty good first conversation yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, what? Is there a way for people to leave their own input on this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll comment on it. Yeah, there'll be comments open. I'll post this, but both on my audio podcast is where my real passion is. So every week I publish something on the EMF, remedy podcast, people, spotify, all the major podcast things. I did that because I think that if somebody has a chance of being able to hang on to any technology, it's probably going to be an audio podcast and not a video, and then I'll also post this on YouTube as well.
Speaker 1:But we'll go ahead and sign off for now, and then we can chat a little bit after we end this but thank you, thank you Julia so much, thank you Shannon so much for participating in this and I really value so much that you guys have suffered through so much and you've really given a gift in your writings to people to help them understand and I just appreciate that spirit so much. So thank you so much for being a part of this.
Speaker 5:Thank you, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:The EMF Remedy podcast is a project of EMF Remedy LLC. We'd like to be your trusted guide for achieving a better EMF environment in your home. The contents on this podcast are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other healthcare professional. It is not intended to be, nor does it constitute, healthcare or medical advice. Opinions of guests on this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the EMF Remedy podcast.