Interview with Patricia Burke of Safe Tech International

Patricia Burke is a prolific writer with Safe Tech International.  In this interview we discuss the torment she endured as a result of involuntary wireless radiation exposure, her discovery of the source and her advocacy and education efforts to help others avoid wireless radiation exposure from so-called 'smart' electric meters as well as many other topics.

Here's Patricia's Substack and here are links to topics of discussion:
Safe Tech International and their email:  team@safetechinternational.org
Smart Grid
Dr. Sam Milham Dirty Electricity 
'Dirty Electricity' and the Diseases of Civilization - Dr. Sam Milham
EMF Safety Network
Stop Smart Meters (based in CA)
Coalition to Stop BC Hydro 
https://stopsmartmetersbc.com/  
National Grid Smart Meter Pilot Program 
Description of different meters, AMI, AMR, POWERLINE The EI Wellspring https://eiwellspring.org/smartmeter.html
WCCA About Smart Meters https://www.wccatv.com/video/about-smart-meters                                                      also see: Tech Safe with Cece Doucette https://www.wccatv.com/video/tech-safe
How often are the meters transmitting: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/pges-big-confession/  Several PG&E bulletins and spokespersons make varying claims on how often the Smart Meter electric meters transmit RF, anywhere from every hour to every 4 to 6 hours to 2% or 4% of the time. Recently CPUC administrative law judge Amy Yip-Kikugawa ordered all investor owned utilities (IOU’s ) to answer Smart Meter radio frequency (RF) questions. PG&E’s answers are an astounding confession!  Question 2: How many times in total (average and maximum) is a smart meter scheduled to transmit during a 24-hour period? PG&E says the average number of RF pulses for the electric meter would be about 10,000, per meter, per day and the maximum number over 190,000.
Opt Out Policy for the National Grid AMR meters in MA:  DPU1383A_FinalOrder.pdf  
Proposed tariffs; Massachusetts Sen. Michael O. Moore introduced the bill on Jan. 19, less than a week after the state’s two largest utility companies — Eversource and National Grid — filed tariff requests seeking to charge consumers a smart meter opt-out fee of $34 per month and $11 per month, respectively. https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/smart-meter-state-legislation/ 
Explanation of Dirty Electricity Caused by Switch Mode Power Supply in Smart Meters: https://smartgridawareness.org/2017/04/09/dr-milham-testifies-smart-meters-public-health-hazard/ Because it is at the front end of a building’s wiring, the dirty electricity from the smart meter’s SMPS has a gateway into that building’s wiring, and also into the earth via the

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Some of my very favorite people are those who have had near-death experiences with electromagnetic poisoning, lived to tell the tale and then apply their energy toward helping others with the same. Patricia Burke is a prolific writer covering all things related to electromagnetic health. With a little creativity, we were able to conduct an interview you won't want to miss Coming up.

Speaker 2: 0:44

EMF Remedy is dedicated to helping you understand which electromagnetic threats are present in your home and whether, in the context of your current home, one you're considering for purchase or building a new home with comprehensive protection designed in. Emf Remedy can help you reduce your family's exposure to harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation.

Speaker 1: 1:07

My guest today is Patricia Burke. Patricia is a writer and she writes primarily on the safety of EMF and radiofrequency radiation. She's also a researcher. She's based in Massachusetts. She works with SafeTech International and hosts a new sub stack devoted to the EMF community. Patricia, welcome to the EMF Remedy Podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:38

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 1:41

I am so glad that we are finally talking no-transcript. If you wouldn't mind telling us about your story and what it is that motivates you to focus so heavily on this area of EMF safety?

Speaker 3: 2:24

Sure, thank you. Well, the short version is that in 2008, I decided to relocate to Northern California. I had been having some health issues and just couldn't get my head above water no matter what. And looking back now I realized that I was already struggling with the wireless here in Massachusetts. But at the time I didn't realize the association between my symptoms and radio frequency exposures, rosa not realizing that California had accepted stimulus funding from the Obama administration to roll out wireless smart utility meters. So I literally went, you know, from the frying pan into the fire. And there was an epidemiologist at the time and I know he's still doing some work on this name, dr Sam Milham. He wrote a book called Dirty Electricity and he has a number of videos online that were, some of them recorded around this time, and he describes the fact that there were women who were becoming sick before the meters were even installed on their homes, when the infrastructure was coming into the neighborhoods. And I was one of those individuals, and so I was really just, you know, trying to keep myself alive.

Speaker 3: 3:58

The two years that I was living in California, I moved multiple times. I was diagnosed immediately by an acupuncturist because he was seeing so many people in his practice experience the health decline. So that was the good thing. But there was no real willingness on the part of the Public Utilities Commission to pay attention to what was happening. I spent my last couple months camping out in the woods and it was a wet spring and the wineries were spraying to try to preserve their crop from mildew and mold and it was just entirely beyond anything that I could transcend.

Speaker 3: 4:47

So I came back to Massachusetts and I don't want to sound melodramatic, but I really did not know if I would survive. I was so sick and it was a pretty sudden onset and I just couldn't find relief anywhere. So I came back here to be closer to my family again and I started renting in the off season up in the Cape Ann area in Gloucester because the population is greatly reduced during the winter months. There. It's an active fishing port and I was at the ocean and I walked with my feet in the water every day and just focused on my health.

Speaker 3: 5:36

And I was very fortunate to find a nutritionist who was EMF literate and she appropriately diagnosed me with leaky gut and I started a pretty long term healing regimen with her.

Speaker 3: 5:55

That sort of got me out of the emergency state where at least I could begin to digest my food and take some supplements and begin to detox a little bit. So I'm, you know, I'm very, very grateful for the grace of those variables and I wasn't doing much other than watching some videos online occasionally. At the time there was very little information available about smart meter harm and it was only coming from the states where the meters were already rolled out. But there were some absolutely lovely, very sincere individuals in California, in Canada and Maine. I connected with some people in Texas and you know I knew in listening to other people and watching proceedings at the California Public Utilities Commission, I just knew that I had to try to get the word out about what was happening with these meters and I naively assumed that the Public Utilities Commission here in Massachusetts, the regulators and the industry would want to hear about this.

Speaker 1: 7:17

That it was a mistake somehow, that it was a mistake somehow right.

Speaker 3: 7:22

Yes, and the politicians, and particularly the clean energy community. And so once in a while I would send off. One of my colleagues called it a flaming arrow. You know, when you send a letter that's going to hit somebody's desk and hopefully they'll pick it up and look at it. But you know, it was just I wasn't really finding anyone else here who was concerned about it or having any luck. And then in 2013, it was actually, I believe, december 23rd of 2013, the Department of Public Utilities put out its order investigating rolling out wireless smart utility meters, and I had had some previous writing experience. I'd worked for the local holistic magazine for a while, I was a columnist for them. I contacted the editor and, mind you, this is the two weeks between Christmas and New Year's and no one had even heard about smart meters. But she sent out an action alert, thank God, and 100 people wrote in.

Speaker 3: 8:27

You know opposition to the rollout of smart meters, and I was finding that there were other people in Massachusetts who already were feeling that their health was affected by other wireless infrastructure, and there were also people from other states who were very generous with their time, who sent in testimonies about the harm that had been caused and so that really started the ball rolling here in Massachusetts and there was a group of activists actually that had gotten hold of this issue and tried to pass a smart meter opt-out bill. And tried to pass a smart meter opt-out bill. And we're in our 10th year of still trying to pass a smart meter opt-out bill here in Massachusetts. The Department of Public Utilities authorized one of the investor-owned utilities to run a pilot program in the city of Worcester, massachusetts, and the attorney general at the time was very opposed to this and she had complained about privacy, about the way that the billing was going to be presented. She had a pretty significant number of reasons to oppose it, but she was not. She ran for governor and then lost the election and kind of disappeared from the scene.

Speaker 3: 9:50

But her words did give us some. You know, her testimony gave us some sort of conversation points and very early on in that process I met another woman. Very early on in that process I met another woman. At the time I would have described myself as more leaning to the left and she was extremely leaning to the right and we met and became sort of partners in crime and we went around and talked to every group in Worcester that would host us about the smart meters, from conservation groups to the John Birch Society, and we really pointed out the fact that both sides of the political divide had plenty of reasons to oppose smart meters. And it was sort of part of our charm, I guess, in talking to these groups and, you know, we would sort of make fun of each other. And it was really wonderful working with her because if my you know facts were a little bit off or I missed a number or something, she could catch me.

Speaker 3: 10:55

And we were so fortunate that the local cable television station, which is really very popular in Worcester, allowed us to start a television show. So I believe we were the first show in the country that was devoted you know, cable television show to the smart meter issue. And, and as I mentioned, it was very hard to find information. You couldn't go online and ask about smart meter health harms or cost issues or privacy issues. So we were basically going to groups like the EMF Safety Network in California, joshua Hart's Stop Smart Meters, the Stop BC Hydro Smart Meters, which kept an incredible chronicle of all the fires that were associated with smart meters, and she also maintained a database about all the opt-outs, and other states at this time were starting to mobilize in Worcester, and it was incredibly corrupt. I'll just be very direct. It was clearly an example of what we call decision-based evidence-making instead of evidence-based decision-making, oh my gosh Instead of evidence-based decision-making.

Speaker 3: 12:27

It was very clearly structured to support the conclusion that smart meters were a reasonable investment for rate payers and there were massive overruns of community rights, of human rights. The meters were installed on people's homes without them even knowing it. They were defaulted into a billing plan that gave them a lower rate for electricity during certain hours and so it reduced their electric bills so that they could say that they reduced the electric bills. Reduce their electric bills so that they could say that they reduced the electric bills. And so we quantified basically fraudulent results reporting for energy savings, cost savings, customer satisfaction. So, just to give an example, the pilot was authorized for 15,000 people. The pilot was authorized for 15,000 people and once we started talking to the community about it, over 6,000 people had already opted out of the pilot program. But they didn't start counting the retention and the opt-out rate until after they removed all those people from their account and people kept on dropping out as they heard about it. They finally started it with a little over 10,000. And you know it just, and there were a few news stories that supposedly talked about how much people enjoyed it and you know how wonderful it was going to be, but basically it was just propaganda.

Speaker 3: 14:07

So we've been able to stop Massachusetts from rolling out the new generation of AMI smart meters. Every time the Department of Public Utilities opens up a proceeding for time of use billing or electric vehicles, we submit the fraud data. But we have reached the end of the rope with this, because the meters that are currently on the homes have reached their planned obsolescence. Most of the homes in the investor-owned utility area have AMR meters, which is sort of the first generation of wireless meters. They're not two-way meters and this sort of happened without people really realizing it, other than that the meter reader didn't need to come to their yard. People didn't know that there was data being transmitted from their homes, know that there was data being transmitted from their homes. But I expect that smart meters are going to sort of come onto the political landscape in Massachusetts now as the meters start to be installed, because we know that a portion of the population is going to be harmed by them.

Speaker 1: 15:20

So the type of meters that have been installed are the AMR meters. Are they transmitting every few seconds or only when they're well? How often are the transmissions happening?

Speaker 3: 15:37

Yeah, we have three different MSROM utilities. I think it used to be four, now it's three and I think there were some bubble up meters initially, but I believe that most of the meters in Massachusetts the AMR meters, are transmitting to the cellular phone infrastructure, pretty often month. If you ask the utility, they'll try to tell you that it's only happening once. You know when they come around for the billing data, but when we hold a meter up we can hear them transmitting, so on our radio frequency meter.

Speaker 1: 16:15

Sorry yeah, and are you having to wait minutes for the transmissions or just seconds?

Speaker 3: 16:20

No, no, no, they're transmitting continually, yeah, yeah, and you know if?

Speaker 1: 16:24

you work out the math, that's you know they're transmitting continually, yeah, yeah, and you know if. If you work out the math, that's you know, and they're transmitting, say, every 10 seconds, and I don't know whether yours are more than 10 seconds or less just a point of data that works out to over 3 million separate doses of radio frequency radiation for the household, and it's staggering.

Speaker 3: 16:46

And then on top of that oh sorry, and on top of that, the gas meters and the water meters are also being fitted with transmitters. So yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 1: 16:59

And there is no capability of opting out in your state, although you've been working on that for 10 years. Is that right?

Speaker 3: 17:06

Well, in 2013, what happened was, as people started to hear about smart meters, there were individuals with compromised health who realized, learned that they already had a meter on their house and you know, people were using the word smart meter or radio frequency meter. Our Department of Public Utilities called it AMF Advanced Metering Functionality. But in 2013, we went to the department of Public Utilities and asked to start surcharging people who were opting out, who wanted to have the radio frequency meter removed, and I believe I was one of the first people in Massachusetts. When I was living up in Gloucester, as soon as I came back from California, I think I was one of the first people who asked to have a non-transmitting meter on my house. At that point I didn't know about the dirty electricity, so I just wanted the transmitter turned off, and that's what they did, and they manually read the meter.

Speaker 3: 18:22

So when National Grid started getting these requests from people, they went to the DPU and asked if they could start surcharging the customers, and it was kind of again, just always in favor of the utility they were allowed to charge. I want to say was it $13 a month or $26? I'm so sorry, I'm not remembering. Say, was it $13 a month or $26? I'm so sorry I'm not remembering, but they got to bill us every month but they only had to come and read the meter every other month. So you know, it wasn't based on the cost of service and people asked if they could send in a self-read card and other things that they could do, but it was kind of designed to be a disincentive. Now our Department of Public Utilities has recommended to the two investor-owned utilities that they offer an opt-out and both of the utility companies have proposed an opt-out fee. But we're trying to pass legislation for no fee and also to specify the type of meter that will be provided as the opt-out meter, not a digital meter.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Okay, so are you looking for somebody who opts out? Are you looking for one of the tried and true analog meters of the past? Is that what you're proposing?

Speaker 3: 19:44

Yeah, I believe that that's the plan and the utilities aren't just wanting to do a radio off meter basically. But there's a few places. There's one activist now in Massachusetts who's really been going through all the proceedings with a fine-tooth comb to see where and if that word analog was included, and you know. So it's still an active process here for us.

Speaker 1: 20:14

Yeah, and I guess I guess we should mention that just turning the radio off really doesn't address and you sort of mentioned dirty electricity there. But would you like to say a little bit about how just turning the radio off doesn't help?

Speaker 3: 20:30

Yeah, I'm not an expert, but there's something called the switch mode power supply in the meters you could probably speak to it more than me that introduces high voltage transients onto the household wiring. That introduces high voltage transients onto the household wiring and it turns out that that is a stressor for people, maybe more so than the radio frequencies, which is what people were looking at initially when the meters were installed at least in my experience.

Speaker 1: 20:59

Yeah, the radio frequency radiation that comes from most smart meters was really the obvious intrusion. But inside of that meter there's digital electronics which need to be powered. Well, I'm not going to justify. There is within the meter electronics that convert alternating current to direct current and the way that that is done introduces a signal on the line of the homeowner that's propagated throughout the entire home and it is basically reflective of the frequency of that nonlinear power supply. So anything that travels over the wire in your home with unshielded wiring is going to be transmitted into the house.

Speaker 1: 21:55

So you know, let's say it was a 90 kilohertz. I don't know exactly what the frequency was of your meters, was of of your meters, but then you're having a 90 kilohertz signal um in the home. That, uh yeah, very difficult, if not well, very difficult to um to deal with. And if people are not aware that there is this secondary component, then they think they've, they've won when they get a non-transmitting meter, but they still have this other access, if you will, into the home and the individuals within. So it's really a tragedy. So I just want to be clear. So are people in Massachusetts now able to opt out at least to some degree, all of them or not.

Speaker 3: 22:45

Yet Only the customers served by National Grid. Eversource has not been offering an opt out for the AMR meters. And then, in addition, we have municipal electric suppliers. Someone had just contacted me from the North Shore and I know of at least three municipal electric suppliers up there. Actually, danvers was one, and they had a very strong opposition group that formed up there Stop Swamp Meters, massachusetts back in sort of like 2013. So it varies a little bit by whether you're served by an investor-owned utility or a municipal. The Department of Public Utilities only has oversight over the municipal suppliers I'm sorry, over the investor-owned utilities, so the municipals are not under their jurisdiction, but the bill that we're trying to file would cover everyone.

Speaker 1: 23:48

There's also a type of smart meter that does not rely on the transmission of radiofrequency radiation.

Speaker 1: 23:58

I guess the best way I could put it is it's powered by dirty electricity, which means that, in addition to the problem that we were discussing before with the RF emitting meters, even with the transmitter turned off, you still have that issue with these other meters PLC power line communication meters but in addition, they transmit the data over the power lines themselves.

Speaker 1: 24:25

So whatever the frequency is of the non-linear power supply within the meter, you've got that problem in the house. And then you get these periodic bursts of radiation that goes out over the wiring back to the utility and of course the problem is that it doesn't know which way it's traveling. So it also goes back into your home and, like I say, it may be 3 million doses or more of this radiation. But in terms of inhibiting that particular radiation that's coming into the house, very, very difficult to deal with and people don't even know that they should be concerned about that. And I wonder, um, do we have anywhere, to your knowledge, any epidemiological data that shows the harm associated with the transition from analog meters to smart meters?

Speaker 3: 25:23

I don't, you know, unfortunately I think that this is my personal theory, but when the smart meters were installed in California, you know they tied the narrative to installing solar, and it was here in Worcester, Massachusetts too. There was a lot of sort of ego in the city behind hosting this wonderful sustainability initiative, and I think that because the rollouts particularly in California and Maine, were so visible, people were able to associate their onset of health issues with this new exposure. And what I personally believe has happened with the wireless industry is that increasing exposures are being introduced for the 5G network, for water meters, other things like that, and it's being done much more quietly and they're just contacting people and telling them that their meter needs to be replaced. There hasn't been this big public relations campaign around it, and that makes it even more difficult to tie your symptoms.

Speaker 3: 26:43

There was a case study by I think her name was Lamesh I'm not going to be saying it exactly correctly and I can send you the link if you do show notes or something but there was a case study regarding smart meter adverse health effects and the American Academy of Environmental Medicine came out with a very strong position paper calling for caution on the rollout or moratorium, you know, back when this was all just starting, I think in 2013 or 2014.

Speaker 3: 27:30

Dr Klinghart, who had been monitoring patients over time and saw what happened when the meters were installed. He was in the film Take Back your Power that Josh Del Sol produced about smart meters, and there's a longer video online with him where he talks about a patient with Parkinson's, a patient with Lyme, where their condition was under control and then, when the meters were installed, they just completely crashed. But I think that a lot of these, the citizen science, has had a difficult time seeing the light of day, and that's one of the reasons why I'm doing the work I'm doing right now to promote the citizen voices and the citizen science around these issues. It's really a huge missing link.

Speaker 1: 28:19

And why is the citizen science having a hard time getting out, getting exposure, having a hard?

Speaker 3: 28:26

time getting out, getting exposure Because of the collusion with the industry and the media and politics and economic interests.

Speaker 3: 28:39

You know it's definitely being censored Once in a while, like I'll find a headline to an article that has been that's come from another source when I'm doing my newsletter right now, so it'll show up on MSN and I will put the headline into the search engine to try to find the original source. I try to get that if I can when I'm doing my newsletter and I will get you know five pages of other suggestions that are the opposite of what I'm looking for, because you know the advertisers have paid, you know, to promote electric vehicles and to cancel out the narratives that are trying to emerge. But there's so many narratives that are emerging now. You know it's so different than it was back in. Like I said, back in 2013, there were just a handful of states that were producing data and now there are hundreds of Facebook pages, of groups that have emerged. You know it might just be a particular town or a school district or something like that that have some skin in the game on this wireless issue, which is great.

Speaker 1: 29:57

Yeah, yeah, that really is wonderful. So you mentioned the collusion between different groups. Is that the reason why, politically, it has been such an uphill battle with your state legislature?

Speaker 3: 30:12

where the clean, green energy economy is all the rage, and so I think here in particular, it is an uphill battle because there is such an interest in still growing the economy through tech and clean energy and clean tech. And the thing that's just so difficult is that you know there's clearly evidence that, for example, using AI is going to greatly increase energy consumption, water, you know, resources, and so even if we were successfully making some headway on climate issues, we're canceling them out on the other end of the tech pipeline. You know, and it was heartbreaking to just really earnestly try to communicate with some of these major conservation groups, like the Environmental Defense Fund and National Resources Defense Council, and even like the Union of Concerned Scientists, which we call the Union of Unconcerned Scientists in Worcester, because they just absolutely did not want to recognize that radio frequencies had biological effects. And to add insult to injury, you know, to have the industry turn it around and portray it as a mental illness, particularly because it affects so many women. It is such a terrible reflection of, you know, mass medicine in the West as well, mass medicine in the West as well.

Speaker 3: 32:06

But you know, I have a friend who sent me a little. You know, she's a poet and she sent me, she said, you know, shortest poem ever. For you, truth has gravity and, you know, the only place of real power in this whole, in this whole, you know, this whole conflict is the truth and clearly the industry and its regulators are still holding on to this false narrative about, you know, thermal effects being the only mechanism of harm that absolutely you know is incorrect. So at some point we are going to reach tipping point, I'm sure of it.

Speaker 1: 32:55

Yeah, the gaslighting phenomenon that you mentioned, trying to imply that, well, this is just a few. You know marginal people with you, people with a medical problem. It's nothing to do with the radiofrequency radiation when there aren't any studies to support that. It's just a narrative, right? It's just a theme, a meme, if you will, that if it doesn't heat, it doesn't harm, which has a certain alliteration. But but really they I mean they haven't to my knowledge found a couple of twin cities and gone with analog meters in one and rf emitting meters in the other and and shown any kind of uh, you know that it's somehow better for people or not harmful. Are you aware of any studies that they've used to prove that there's no harm with these, or is it just an assertion?

Speaker 3: 33:56

Oh, no, no, as a matter of fact, I think the American Cancer Society has a very clear statement on their website that there's. You know, they've never been able to prove it. They shifted the burden of proof. You know it should have been tested before it was rolled out. It should have been evaluated when it was and monitored, and instead I think that the people who were reporting harm were treated as collateral damage.

Speaker 3: 34:25

So one of the narratives that I've been sort of toying around with and I've used it a couple of times in my writing, but you know, my, my children, when my family was young, we had a dog who was absolutely terrified of thunder and he was a collie cross and the morning that a thunderstorm was going to be coming, he would already start to, you know, act out. And fortunately I learned about using flower remedies and things to try to calm him. But you know, fourth of July and New Years and fireworks and everything were just, you know, he would just shudder and try and get under the carpet and hide, you know, and be constantly like against my legs. And historically, the dogs that could detect a change in the electromagnetic field kept the sheep herder safe. You know, they could warn humans. They had a sensory system that was more refined than maybe the sheepherder and, you know, could help people who were traveling, be safe and plan.

Speaker 3: 35:38

My friend has two golden retrievers. She lives near you know a shooting range. Her dogs are completely oblivious range, her dogs are completely oblivious. So there are two distinct sets of sensory systems and we know in the breed of dogs that we can choose dogs to have them be like trackers to find lost children. They we have a place right here near me that trains golden retrievers as service dogs and right after the dogs are born this expert can go in and figure out what sort of training program to put the dogs in so that they have the correct placement, because some are better just as emotional support dogs, but others can handle a lot more.

Speaker 3: 36:24

You know demands but others can handle a lot more.

Speaker 3: 36:26

You know demands and it's so clear that to me that there are humans that have an enhanced sense of the electromagnetic environment and that it's actually something that helps to ensure the survival of the species, the survival of the species, and if I was living in another time and place I would perhaps be a dowser or an energy healer or you know some other kind of sort of wisdom holder because it would be recognized.

Speaker 3: 37:01

And I think we're going to recover that at some point in time. Because I really do believe that, although there are some people in the electrical sensitive community who have other health ailments, for example Lyme, the spirochetes burrow in the myelin sheath and then the person's nerves aren't as insulated and that can predispose a person to electrical sensitivity. I know there are people that come into this population because of that. But I also do believe that this is an inherent sensory capability and I think that it's actually confirmed in Chinese medicine, the way that they look at the constitutions of different human beings, that they could probably predict the same way that the dog trainer can predict which puppies are going to be better suited for certain things. Like Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine systems are much more sophisticated in understanding the variance in humans.

Speaker 1: 38:16

Yeah, and I just want to mention one more thing in the context of smart meters and dealing with this, this whole issue, we've we've sort of talked about the fact that getting an exemption or an exception is a very good thing. With a radio frequency radiation emitting smart meter I would argue, any smart meter but the real problem is that very few people live on their own private one square mile of property. So if your next door neighbor or the person sharing the other side of your townhouse or whatever doesn't opt out, you're going to be getting radiation from that individual and everybody else in your neighborhood who has not opted out. Yes, we know that the only known safe level of exposure is zero and arthur furstenberg's recent brilliant paper about the fact that the power level isn't what it's all about. In fact, what's the strange thing about electromagnetic poisoning versus poisoning through chemical means is that with the poisoning from chemical means there's a dose-response relationship.

Speaker 1: 39:42

The interesting thing about electromagnetic poisoning is that you may get an effect at a certain power density and you may get a much greater effect at one. One-thousandth of that power density in your neighborhood may be causing you the most harm. Who has not opted out? Because they have just the right power threshold with the frequency of radiation being emitted to cause optimal harm? We don't know. These things aren't studied. I'm not holding my breath for studies on these types of things, but I just don't want to leave people with the idea that if we can somehow get opt-outs, that that fixes the entire problem. What are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 3: 40:31

Yeah, it's a stopgap measure and it's a controversial measure. There were activists who felt that, you know, it was just important to stop the rollout altogether, out altogether. But I think that, ultimately, the people that were doing the work in each state, you know, did what they felt they needed to do to protect themselves and others. But the multifamily housing is really really difficult as well, and people are making all kinds of efforts to try to shield their houses. But I think it's really important for people to understand, though, that some of the people who became ill when the smart meters were installed, many of them were using wireless technologies without issue until this change happened with the household wiring, and one of the symptoms that's often reported is this sleep interruption, and because it's cheaper for the utilities and others to transmit it in the evening, this idea that there's no harm because everyone's asleep, so we can just keep sending all these frequencies through the airwaves, is clearly incorrect.

Speaker 3: 41:49

I think we're kind of at a point in time where we've lost the sort of the handbook to being human and living on earth and the relationship that we have with the frequencies of the cosmos and how they they control our, our chronobiology, and this is a new field in Western medicine, this whole question. We know that we have a circadian rhythm, because we see it when people experience jet lag, and it's because we see it when people experience jet lag. And what we haven't done is quite gone back far enough to unravel that that chronobiology is actually choreographed by the angle of the sun's rays, and this is where the Chinese and the Ayurvedic systems are so superior to what we have here. And so, you know, people are making all kinds of corrections now, for example, getting up in the morning to see the sunrise and looking at the sun in the evening to try to sustain their chronobiology. But we really need to look at the pollution, the interference that's coming from these artificial, man-made frequencies, you know, and what it's doing not only to human health but to the other species as well.

Speaker 3: 43:19

But yeah, you're totally right about that. I don't want to oversell the value of the opt-out. I don't want to oversell the value of the opt-out. We still need to be working on questioning all of the assumptions behind the smart grid, the smart meters, the integration of renewable energy and all of the outsourcing of harm from mining to disposal across the lifespan of so many of our technologies. Now the whole industry is just running to create more demand and more use of tech, and we've gone too far, in my opinion.

Speaker 1: 44:03

So I want to turn a little bit now and I want to talk about you personally, if you're willing to talk about your elements of your personal journey as a EMF consultant. As an EMF consultant, I deal with a lot of people who have been damaged by the harmful manmade electromagnetic radiation, and so it always kind of amuses and it annoys me as well when other people talk about these rare people so supposedly who are electrically sensitive because there's already an electromagnetic environment. It it sort of came with the place right, the earth has one, and nobody who's quote electrically sensitive has any problem with that, only a problem with harmful manmade stuff. So I would ask, you know, I've known people who have, first of all, electromagnetic poisoning doesn't come with a return address. Unfortunately, it's kind of like cancer in that way.

Speaker 1: 45:07

You don't know where exactly it came from, but people have had associations. So I hear people who a cell tower was put in and then they began to experience electromagnetic poisoning after that, or their first exposure to Wi-Fi triggered it, or smart meters that brought it on. And I've also known people with low frequency, so power line things that they were able to clearly say wow when this electrical change happened in my neighborhood or in my home. That's when they began to notice the poisoning. So I'm just curious. I had relocated to an urban area.

Speaker 3: 46:09

I had a yoga studio for 14 years and I wanted to live in the town where my studio was. I moved from a suburban area and so I was on the main street in Marlborough, massachusetts, in a large like top floor of a large Victorian home, and there may have been mold there, I'm not exactly sure. But I had very little exposure in my home where I raised my family. Then, when I moved to Marlborough, I was next to the library and so I had the Wi-Fi signal coming in. The tenant below me had a cordless phone. The landlord had a clicker in the roof to stop squirrels and bats from getting in the place, and initially, when I first moved, someone gave me a cordless phone, but I couldn't use it because the girl downstairs had a cordless phone and they were interfering with each other, so I used a landline. I was never a big fan of cell phones, even though I had one, but I didn't use it, and so when I was living in that house, that was when I started getting really sick, and as I look back on it I realized that the exposures in that home sort of took me down.

Speaker 3: 47:22

But my experience was that when I moved to California the smart meters were installed and I immediately started to really crash and I could sort of go around and almost feel where the meters were installed before I saw them. I could feel a field around the neighborhood, you know, and it wasn't power line but it was. There was definitely like an artificial electromagnetic field. I could not sleep at all. It was like having one foot on the gas and one on the brake and that just took me down. And you know, as I mentioned, the leaky gut which, once you, once you have that when it reaches a certain point, your body's attacking everything. You know you just can't take in nutrition or supplements or anything. So yeah, I associate my downfall with the smart meters, but I think that I was primed before I moved across the country.

Speaker 1: 48:26

Okay, and it was wireless radiation that you know, that you mentioned the portable phones and the Wi-Fi and the squirrel chaser and whatnot. That's all wireless.

Speaker 3: 48:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:41

And have things ever been the same after that? Have you ever had a period of time when you were not sensitive to the harmful man-made stuff?

Speaker 3: 48:50

No, I mean, it's definitely been a lifestyle change for me. I can go through periods of time where I'm receiving less of an exposure, but it's very hard to escape right now. I moved to an area that was not very heavily settled, that's in the floodplain for the Charles River, because I thought that there wouldn't be much development here because there's so much land that's classified as wetlands. But the neighboring town has put in two large cell towers, lots of antennas on them, and I've tried to work with my town to have a setback and, to you know, to have some consciousness around the issue. But anybody who's living on the edge of a community can be in the same boat that I am. You is.

Speaker 3: 49:42

We're calling it tinnitus, which implies that it's noise from an unknown source, but it's really microwave hearing and that is really debilitating. It is so loud at times, off and on over the course of the day and night, and this is where I say that I believe that there's a lot of covert activity taking place, because I know something is being turned up and turned down at various times over the course of the day, and when it started it was only on for short periods of time, and now it's on for longer periods of time. So my personal belief is that what happened in Massachusetts is, instead of installing small cells to support 5G, that the carriers went to the mid-range and they just started switching out the radios on towers and placements that were already in town without anybody knowing it, because we have 5G coverage in all the towns around here now, but we don't have small cells. So towns were sort of mobilizing to try to change their zoning, but I think that the industry got the better of us, unfortunately.

Speaker 1: 51:09

Yeah, and the phenomenon that you mentioned there, microwave hearing. For people who are not aware, it was an American biologist, Alan Frey I believe, who discovered that way back in the 1970s, so it's a well-documented phenomenon.

Speaker 3: 51:27

Yeah, and he proved that even deaf people could, you know, have microwave hearing.

Speaker 1: 51:31

Yeah, and he proved that even deaf people could have microwave hearing. Any advice for people who are just coming to the realization? You know, they've made a correlation in their life and they find, hey, when I go to a pristine place I'm well, and when I go back home I'm sick. Do you have any advice for people who are newly poisoned or newly?

Speaker 3: 51:56

realizing they're poisoning, oh boy. Well, you know there's so many groups and organizations now, but some of the really well-established ones, like the Environmental Health Trust and Physicians for Safe Technology, you know, if you can get past the search engine challenge and get to some of these sites, there's a wonderful group up in Canada called the Electrosensitive Society and there is some beautiful work taking place in the Canadian community around. You know, identifying electrical sensitivity. There's a number of hospitals that have been trained in how to treat someone who's electrically sensitive and created dedicated rooms. So the needle is really moving and I encourage people really to have very, very high hopes.

Speaker 3: 52:53

Um, you know, and to be, I guess I want to say I have a great deal of gratitude that I am not part of the problem, because I think if I did not have this health issue or if I were raising my children now, I might not have had the consciousness to question this. You know this incredibly unexamined sort of consumer assumptions around safety. You know, and our habits and and things. People will find that there are just some really sincere, very earnest, very honest, very devoted people working on this issue and even more, you know, coming forward. You know, as we go forward. I'm really I'm very heartened to see a focus on the need to protect children from social media. Looking at you know whether or not they should be using cell phones. I think people got ushered into a lot of these behaviors, particularly during COVID, without question, and that now we need to backtrack and really bring some reason and some ethics into the picture.

Speaker 1: 54:11

Yes, absolutely, and I think that would be a good subject for our next interview. I'm hoping you'll allow me to interview again Because I want to talk in detail about tech addiction. That is such a big thing. But for now, how can people get in touch with you and with your work?

Speaker 3: 54:33

But for now, how can people get in touch with you and with your work? Well, the Substack is really my big offering now. I did a lot of writing for a couple of years. Activist Post and Natural Blaze would publish almost everything I wrote. Almost everything I wrote, and I would just try to come in from many, many different angles, responding to recent news and tying it to the issue of EMF, and a lot of it was on health. But there are lots of other angles too and I decided partly because of censorship, but also I felt the need to start curating news again. So I've started a sub stack, which is Patricia Burke sub stack for Safe Tech International. The group that I do most of my work with now is Safe Tech International Because you know, when you see another country like China and Russia outlawing phones in schools, cell phones in schools, and you see the reason why they did it, I think it helps open people's minds to the idea that there might be another way of looking at this. So we just keep trying to find ways of, you know, opening up those doors for people and we have an email it's team at SafeTech International and we have an email it's team at SafeTech International.

Speaker 3: 55:55

I don't do a lot of sort of one-on-one talking with people about how to get rid of their smart meter or something like that. I found a niche. That was better for me, because I am electrically sensitive. I can't really be on a regular phone for a long period of time because I have to use a speaker phone which has a magnetic field. So you know, I don't do a lot of sort of interactive dynamics. But there are lots of other people that do that and there's a website called Americans for Responsible Technology that has a big list of different state organizations that have formed and there are many at this point in time and a lot of them have Facebook pages and websites. So I would definitely suggest people in the United States maybe check there and if they email the team at SafeTech International, one of us would also try to get back to them as well.

Speaker 1: 56:53

Great. So I want to encourage people don't miss Patricia's work on Substack. It is patriciaburkesubstackcom. Lovely article that you published Earth Day 2024, questioning EMF, 5g, rf and et cetera. Lovely article that you published earth day 2024 questioning emf, 5g, rf and etc.

Speaker 1: 57:16

and replacing nomophobia with lomo and I won't explain what those things mean, because I want people to go and read it, but I am just so impressed by the amount of information that you're able to put together on a very regular basis, everything that's going on in this area of wireless harm, and thank you for your encouragement that we're gaining traction in this area and it looks like we may be able to have success. But now is not the time to back off, but to get involved. So, I'm looking forward to our next chance to speak. So, Patricia, thank you so much.

Speaker 3: 58:02

Well, I want to give you a quick plug too, before you cut me off, because when I joined Substack, I was so grateful to find you and Roman and you have created an incredible body of work with your podcast and I've listened to a couple of them the ones with Shannon and a few others and you're offering a frequency when you host these talks of sort of calm and reason, and you know it's just. I'm so grateful for the Substack platform also and the other. That was what I was hoping would happen is I would find more community there, and I'm very grateful and so far it's been good. We haven't run into much in terms of censorship or issues, so I hope it stays that way.

Speaker 1: 58:48

Yes, yes, me too. Yeah, I just jumped on Substack very recently as well, and, uh, yeah, I hope it continues. So, um, patricia, thank you so much for your time today. I've really enjoyed it thank you, you too.

Speaker 2: 59:15

The EMF Remedy Podcast is a project of EMF Remedy LLC. We'd like to be your trusted guide for achieving a better EMF environment in your home. The contents on this podcast are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other healthcare professional. It is not intended to be, nor does it constitute, healthcare or medical advice. Opinions of guests on this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the EMF Remedy Podcast.