29: Interview with Shannon Rowan Author of the Book: WIFI Refugee pt.2

Today we conclude our interview with Shannon Rowan, author of WIFI Refugee, https://bookshop.org/p/books/wifi-refugee-plight-of-the-modern-day-canary/18894582?aid=104394&ean=9798986670607&listref=keith-cutter-s-favorite-emf-books&, by looking at solutions for gaining resilience to harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation.

Shannon shares what she feels are the most helpful things in a fast and very broad conversation that touches on traditional vs. natural medicine, heavy metals, anti-inflammatory herbs, diseases of modern civilization, circadian rhythms, and much more.

It's my hope this episode will be helpful for others suffering as Shannon and I do.

The pre-roll message published in this episode is shared with approval of the one who created the sound track, Rosalito, who's work appears at Rosalito.art

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 1:35

It's easier once you start feeling better to get gung-ho about things and then kind of like push yourself again. And I feel like I'm starting to get into that trap. And I need to really back off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Does it hurt you to use your computer?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

It does. Even without the most time. It hurts a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Because, you know, it it's like I feel it. And it because you can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

It hurts a little bit right now, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

It hurts a little bit right now. I'm still close. I'm not touching it. Yeah, we're paying for this.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

You can't not, you know, it's like EMF Remedy is dedicated to helping you understand which electromagnetic threats are present in your home. And whether in the context of your current home, when you're considering for purchase, or building a new home with comprehensive protection designed in, EMF Remedy can help you reduce your family's exposure to harmful, man-made electromagnetic radiation.com.

SPEAKER_05 2:45

You're listening to Reversing Electromagnetic Poisoning. It's a podcast for people who are serious about taking control of the electromagnetic environment in their home. I'm pleased to say we have the second half of an interview with Kannon Rowan. She is the author of Wi-Fi Refugee. A little sound clip that I played at the beginning of this episode. Yes indeed we were joking about how much it hurts to even use a computer. And that is a computer with no RF emissions. No intentional radiation emissions from RF. So no Wi-Fi no Bluetooth and yes, it hurts. If you've been damaged to buy harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation, you could probably relate to that. So it was fun getting together with um Anna and meeting her for the first time. Although virtually, unfortunately, and yet putting together a couple of recordings, the one from last week and and the one you'll be listening to in a few minutes. We covered a lot of ground um in last week's interview. If you haven't heard that, I encourage you to take a listen. Today we're focusing on solutions and not medical advice or any of that, just uh the experience that Shannon has acquired in her own journey with electromagnetic poisoning and also with the people um that she's met along the way who are struggling with recovering from uh building uh resilience to the electromagnetic uh poisoning. So uh we get into a number of things. We talk about allopathic versus oh, I don't know what you call it, naturopathic medicine or um herbal medicine. Recovering from electromagnetic poisoning, building that resilience, uh heavy metal detox, anti-inflammatory herbs, anger, dealing with anger, righteous indignation, the value of proper appropriate EMF exposure, like uh light from the sun, like grounding or earthing, the things that were most helpful for Shannon and other people that had insight into the diseases of modern civilization, the blue light, the virtue of spending time outdoors, uh circadian rhythm maintenance and the importance of that absence of baths, re uh recovery time and a key characteristic flexibility, willing to do uh what it takes. So it's an awful lot coming up, but it's coming at you pretty fast, and I will just mention in before we get into it here what a uh unusual challenge it is to get two people who have been damaged by EMF together for an interview using uh modern technology. Um Shannon doesn't have electric power at all. And I can relate to that. I've uh done that. So I understand, and she had to travel a ways to uh borrow uh a friend's unheated storage location, which is where she is recording this from. But they had uh internet, so she was able to do that on my end, because I live out in the country. The internet bandwidth is terrible, so we had to do this early in the morning. And she's contending with a rainy season where she lives. Um it was just it was it was very interesting getting it all coordinated. Um took us about a month to find a time. So I had a great time. We had a lot to discuss. Uh I hope you enjoy uh the rest of this interview.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Okay, I want to welcome back today uh Shannon Rowan, uh author of Wi-Fi Refugee. We began our conversation last time. We heard about Shannon's uh journey and how it started, a little bit about one individual, family that she was able to profile in her book. There are many, many other profiles in this book. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about the resource section and how it can be helpful to people who are suffering from electromagnetic poisoning. Shannon, I so much enjoyed our first conversation. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Thank you. Yeah, I did too. So glad to be back.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

Yeah, my my pleasure. And Shannon and I were just kind of um laughing about getting getting started again. I'll I'll share just a little bit. You know, I live out in the woods, I live in a shielded home, so I can be close to family. Um, I chose not to go out and try to find a pristine place. Um I found a pretty good place, and then we shielded the rest, and that allows me to get restorative sleep, and I can go out and do things in the world, and then come back and recover, and then go out and do it all over again. And so yet I have certain limitations, and Shannon, I believe you have certain limitations, and so putting this together and using technology to have these discussions is not without as challenges. So I'm running on battery power now. We're gonna go till the batteries quit and maybe two minutes before because I don't want it to end abruptly, but I really wanted to continue this um discussion because we kind of left people with I think the idea that um you know, we're not trying to convert anybody. Anyone who is out there and they're listening to this or they're watching this in in disbelief about electromagnetic poisoning or EHS or electrical sensitivity, call it what you will, maybe this isn't the right place for you. This is the place and and the time to talk to people who are suffering, but they know it's real, they don't need to be convinced. So we were able to get into some really cool things about um how maybe this technology is killing us. Apart from just the um non-native radiation exposure that is cumulative and may have us all electrically sensitive one day, but it's stealing away our lives, and so that was a lot of the flavor of our first conversation. And I want to give people um some solutions, and so you have an appendix in the back of the book. I call it an appendix, it could have been maybe another book.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

I know. I actually meant for it to just be like 20 pages and then I kept going. And it grew, it almost is a hundred pages, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

It's great. So I want to get into some of what is in there because I think it begins to establish the roadmap of how people get better at uh from recovering from electromagnetic poison. So um before we do that, I would like to know uh Shannon, if you could tell me about what your background has been. Was there a point in your life when you followed the allopathic train? And then did you switch over at a certain point and where are you now? And then if you could just go right into maybe discussing, we've just got about you know a half hour at most here, but if you could discuss some of the non-native EMF exposure, stopping that and optimizing the native exposures. I'd love to hear how you feel about um earthing in particular.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

In sunlight exposure and what constitutes proper sunlight exposure. And then just for fun, I'd love to hear how you feel about blue light stuff.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Oh, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

I'll leave it over to you now.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, that's good. I like that. Um, yeah, so I was raised, you know, kind of standard American household with um standard American allopathic medicine. So I didn't have a clue until um college. I was uh start having digestive problems that were really troubling in um eating this horrible cafeteria food. Actually, I noticed getting sensitive to fast foods in high school and then kind of um just getting worse and um and I just uh start to try to eat differently. So that was the kind of beginning of that for me. Um and that led me to like eating uh I actually went on a vegetarian diet um for a long time. And uh and I will tell people I I am actually, I I mean, I think that could be great, but it didn't ultimately work out for me. Um so I'm not a vegetarian now. Um I do try to eat consciously, but um in terms of eating meat, but I was for like 11 years. And I think at first it was really helpful for me because it was very cleansing and the fact that I just started eating organic foods and going to health food stores and then learning about like natural medicines from there. Um but I I then I had a few more like kind of rough um experiences. Well, I'd already had trouble with allopathic medicines not really working, you know, um before that. So and getting like dependent on them. So um, you know, severe menstrual cramps in high school and dysfunction and you know, taking a leave and whatever ibuprofen until I over like was overdosing on it and then taking coteing. I mean, like really, you know, crazy stuff with that and um not relieving the pain. So um mostly it that was my like journey into herbal medicine was trying to find pain relief for horrific menstrual cramping, which is, I mean, like I mean horrific. Like I wanted to kill myself when it was happening. Like I can't, this is horrible pain, right? Every month, like three years. So like a nightmare. Um finally finding some solutions with herbs. And now I, you know, for a long time now I haven't had pain. Um, if I do, I know what to do about it. So yeah, I have a long history of like kind of having to figure this out. So I'm coming from that background where this is like at least 20 years or so of um, you know, turning to like natural medicines and having them work. So it really was just about not working for me and causing and further like, you know, causing more problems than um other problems, side effects and you know, whatnot, long-term side effects. So um, you know, I feel like I'm still detoxing from so-called elephant medicine. I don't like to call it medicine.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

I think medication is good because it's like a different, you know, like they say medication that's more appropriate, um treatment or whatever, you know, not cures, not yeah. So so I really was disillusioned at some point when I also having to take um a lot of antibiotics for like urinary, chronic urinary infections. Now I have solutions for that. So I do mention some of those in the book just because I think um I've noticed with people dealing with EMF poisoning, um, you know, trying to figure things out, also a lot of them being disillusioned with the standard medicine that we have now and um it not working or making things worse. So so I've I kind of end up adding a section about like how to avoid all LS ethic medicines because um I'm that kind of renegade. I don't touch the stuff anymore. It's been at least um probably about 15 years since I've had anything like that's you know pharmaceutical. Um, so I've found solutions and they work, and I've tried to include them. So just for anybody who does have UTIs and I know how horrible that is, uh, manzanita leaf tea. Amazing. Amazing. And it grows here, you know, out west, you got it like everywhere. So it's super easy to access. We got some of the property here. Um, I sometimes still get that this starts, you know, ballot it'll work for um, it'll actually work for like a bladder infection too, even really bad ones. So we've both my partner and I use it, that tea. Um, and so I explained that in the book. But um, you know, kava, kava for pain relief for menstrual cycles, also um mother worther wart herb is really amazing for that too. Um, and that'll actually help like um regulate your cycle and your hormones as over time if you keep using it. Um, so yeah, but in terms of uh EMFs, so what was I gonna say besides that? Um, so yeah, that's kind of my introduction to like why I don't do I don't do drugs. Um I don't do drugs. I don't even really um I think cannabis can be good in some cases and CBD oil and that, and I um I'm not against it. I did use that for pain relief at first before I found actually bet I thought better medicine. So with cannabis, when I used that for pain relief back a long time ago, um, it worked by like distracting my mind from the pain. It didn't really relieve the pain and it didn't really resolve the problem. Um, so I think that is kind of a trap with that medicine. I think that is a medicine, it's from the earth, you know, but sometimes it's it's contaminated with the chemicals because if you don't know where you're getting it from and it's not organically grown, it had there are side effects, you know, people know that, of course, I think. Um, and you can be dependent, maybe not like physiologically, but there's a dependency that you can, you know, it's have and it can mess with your cognitive function and your you know memory and you know cause thirst and other problems. So um, so I would use that really cautiously, um, and uh, you know, because of the trappings of that, but um, it is, I think, helpful for people in moderation and you know, used cautiously. But um, yeah, but otherwise, uh, yeah, natural plant medicine, you know, um our earth is abundant with solutions right there, you know, that it wants to help us, I think. And like it provides that for us, you know, it's amazing. Um, but yeah. So, but in terms of like EMF poisoning in herbs, if you want me to talk about that, um, I think the main problem is inflammation. So we deal with like a lot of inflammation, chronic inflammation from these exposures. And so there are really good um herbs for inflammation. And turmeric was kind of my go-to when I was dealing with migraines. Um, so turmeric in teas, just the or however you can get it, but um there's tinctures, teas, powder, you know, you can capsules um if you want it, but you know, capsules. I'm I'm a pr I'm a purist about this stuff. So capsules um are made with formaldehyde. People, a lot of people don't know that. So formaldehyde's like an extreme, extreme poison that we're unfortunately like exposed to in a lot of ways. It's in a lot of things, you know, it's in plywood, it off-gases, you breathe it. It's you know, it's just kind of um unfortunately like a ubiquitous poison that we're exposed to. So um, so we are being poisoned by EMFs, but also by other substances. There's chemicals in of pollution, especially in our country, really profoundly um reaching. And um so what I found and a lot of people, you know, that felt that feel like extra poison by EMF and that can sense that. Um, we have found that there's a heavy metal burden connection in that it makes it worse. Okay. So, like we were talking about in the last show, everybody is sensitive, everybody is affected. Okay, you're affected at a cellular level. You're talking about Magda Havas, like the the aging. And I can see this myself. Like I used to always look younger than my years, I don't anymore. Um, you know, I mean, it just it I stopped looking younger than my years when I got poisoned. And actually, I feel like I aged rapidly. Um, and I see that in a lot of other people I know as well. Like the rapid aging is definitely happening. Um and so the inflamm the chronic inflammation that's like present in everybody because of this. Um, but when you're when you have heavy metal, okay, when you have a heavy metal body, heavy metal body burden, which most of us have because we get it in medicines, so-called, we get it in our water, you know, we get it, it's just there's a lot of contamination um in our environments. So what happens is um in a simplistic way you could say, well, it's sort of making you more conductive to EMFs. I don't really know if that's true. What I see it as is um, you know, when you're talking about sort of like optimal health and body balance kind of you know aspects of that, um, when you have heavy metals in your body, it displaces the minerals. So what we're really looking at is low people with low minerals in their bodies, right? And so when you don't have magnesium enough magnesium and calcium and phosphorus, like all the all the functions in your body are affected. I mean, you can't, your bones are brittle, you know, your tissues are loose, your um tissues, your joints are, you know, loose. I'm not loose, but I'm trying to say like um stretched out, you know, you don't you don't have so there's all these repercussions and it kind of like snowballs from there. Um affects your vision. I mean, like every the matrix of your of your bones and your flesh, you know, this is what it's made of, right? And so um, so you're displacing this, so you're gonna cause a lot of problems from that. So what you really need is a focus on adding minerals into your diet. And those, and when you add more minerals, that helps to displace the metals, just like the metals displace the minerals, right? So um, so I'm not really in favor of like, okay, so when we talked in the last show, we talked about like what I noticed in myself was like this tendency to want to push through pain and and be like just kind of like go, right? And so we kind of get extremist about our solutions and detoxing. And I think Americans especially, because of our culture, we overdo it and we cause we harm ourselves in the process. So I don't get out the big guns, you know, don't just Be like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, because we're always attacking our bodies. I mean, that's our approach in medicine is like, okay, let's attack this thing, let's at whatever you think is in you and invading you a virus or a bacteria or you know, or whatever, you know, fungus, whatever, and cancer, you want to kill it, you know, like let's get something to kill it. And you cannot do that without killing yourself, you know. Like this is you're talking about your whole organism here in your body. So you can't, so I just don't um anything I try to I suggest, like I always, especially with detoxing, to advise to go really slowly. And I'm guilty of this. I mean, I'm laughing about it because I want to do this too. I want to just get rid of it. I don't know how many years I spent trying to like kill parasites because I traveled a lot. I've been in India and stuff, and I, you know, I probably we all probably have parasites that doesn't necessarily bad though. It's like, you know, this is a balanced thing again. Like, I don't think you cannot have parasites in your body. And so the goal shouldn't be to like just be get rid of everything, you know. So um, it's about balance and supporting. So I want to look, I try to look at this as like try to how can you support yourself? How do you support your natural ability to eliminate poisons, to you know, rest, like all these things that our bodies know how to do? Like, how can we aid that process?

SPEAKER_04 25:25

And that's that's really that's really um kind of the basis of the naturopathic approach, really, is it's to support health rather than I think as you put it, like well I'm paraphrasing targeted destruction in the case of parasites or or whatever it would be.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

And um, I love that you mentioned um tumor, you know, that was my go-to. Now I used a powder to get away from the capsules for the exact same reason I wanted to get away from it. Um so I used uh curculin powder and fursitin and some other things and the heavy metal detox. Yeah, I don't know what it is about heavy metals, but I know I know that there are these certain associations.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah, and so yeah, because it's like it's hard to like I said, I mean, people like to see it as like an it makes you more conductive and like as an antenna, but it doesn't totally make sense to me because we're also full of like um salt, you know, so that's conductive too, I mean, and water and all that's conductive. So how do you not be conductive to electromagnetic fields? We're supposed to be, because the natural electromagnetic fields are what like gives us life, you know, this is the foundation of life. So we're supposed to be conductive of that. Um, so I don't think you can get away from being conductive of the energy, but I think it's really so it really comes down to like how much are you poisoned and how can we like try to write this, you know? Because it's the overall burden, like how burdened are you and how right. So obviously, if you can if you can relieve the one kind of poisoning and remedy something with that, you're gonna feel better. You're just gonna feel better, right? So the other thing might not be as horrible. So if you're like you've got, you know, all the chemicals coming at you and the heavy metals and you know, poisonous medicines you're ingesting and poisonous foods, and then you've got the EMFs, like obviously that's just gonna be harder on you, right? So so you're trying, you're we're basically doing what we can in this situation, you know, whatever is available to us. Um, I mean, I love I sometimes fantasize, oh, if I could just be like completely, you know, like that this purist mindset, like, oh, if I can go somewhere pure and be pure and everything could be, I could like have no poison, how would that feel? I do sometimes get a little angry. I mean, we should be like realizing I was poisoned from birth, in pre-birth, and like, you know, what's been robbed from me, like the potentials, you know, um, how would uh my life have been if I hadn't been poisoned? I don't none of us can really answer that because we're all poisoned to some degree at this point.

SPEAKER_04 27:56

You know, I like what you said about um being angry a little bit. I think there is a place for righteous indignation. Yeah, you know, and and I don't spend a lot of time being angry, but we should be indignant about the poisoning. And it's not just electromagnetic, it's a lot of different things. But I I sometimes wonder, and I I wonder if you would agree with this thought that uh that largely we could write the ship out, so to speak, with regard to our bodies and our balance and the non-native EMF. I sometimes think that we could just fix that by getting to a pristine place or creating a pristine place and indulging in the natural INF. And over time, that might write the ship. That's not to say other things don't need some attention in the long term, but I wonder if you would agree that that that's maybe the big thing that needs to be.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

It is the bigger thing, I think. Um, and I know that like Jack Cruz agrees with that, and if you know his work, um like he focuses less on food and even like other things you ingest because he said it's all electromagnetism and it's all about light, you know, like sunlight and these cycles and the light cycles, right? Circadian rhythm and the water. And so um, you know, if you focus on grounding and water and sunlight, that's kind of like the main things. Um, and you kind of have these like, you know, the Indian gurus who supposedly lived off of just that and didn't eat, you know, kind of extreme end of that. But um yeah, um, I do I I think uh what probably one of the biggest things that's helped me. I'll I'll say okay, I'll tell you tell you what the biggest things that helped me were. I mean, I started with a turmeric as like you know, coping and everything, but um grounding, meaning going barefoot in nature where you're not like away from like ground currents, you know, you you don't want to do this like where you're not like under power lines or something, right? Um, but there's something about like the your bare, like walking on a beach, you know, people know how feel how good that feels to walk barefoot on a beach. Um, and it's because you're actually like getting um you're discharging this voltage that accumulates in your body. And it's so that I think that's what's happening. You're just like we ground electrical wiring into to discharge the excess into the ground. I mean, you're doing this from your body. There are body voltage meters. I've never used one. I don't know how you used one.

unknown 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

When I didn't have a lot of money, I was just getting started in this DMF analysis. I I made instead of having an electric field meter, I converted an electric meter to a body voltage meter. And it's it's a good way to go. Um it shows you the efficiency of the coupling between the human body and the low frequency non-A to VMF, like what's associated with the power lines. I mean, you can a very visual demonstration with a client is to be in their house and have them holding on to this uh probe really for the body voltage meter, and they can see a voltage there, and they're thinking, okay, so what and you drop the voltage in the house, you turn off the main electric panel, and it just goes to zero.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

And it's a pretty amazing thing for people to see, and it it helps people, you know, kind of understand.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

And and I do, I mean, I'm guilty of like spending too much time on my laptop, especially that I got into writing, um, after you know, wanting to write the book and then writing other books. And I actually have a goal to when I finish this book to really cut back on that. I think it's I'm kind of it's easier once you start feeling better to get gung-ho about things and then kind of like push yourself again. And I feel like I'm starting to get into that trap and I need to really back off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Does it hurt you to use your computer?

SPEAKER_01 31:44

It does. It hurts a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Because, you know, it it's like I feel it.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

And it because you can't it hurts a little bit right now, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

It hurts a little bit right now. I'm still close. I'm not touching it. Yeah, we're paying for this. You can't not, you know, it's like I've even like I'll read a book at night and I'll have a bat a battery-powered flashlight in front of it to read by because we don't have electricity and we don't have lights. And I feel the the I feel the battery bothering me. It'll bother my heart. I mean, you know, Arthur Verstenberg's book, right? Invisible rainbow really brings us home. In the early days of electricity, with even the Laden jar and everything, they notice people reacting to way less than anything we're exposed to today. You know, we don't think a battery is a big deal, like holding something with a battery in it, but it actually does affect us, right? And I I actually you reminded me when you're telling your story just then, I you reminded me of something pretty stupid that I did for a while that I should tell people just to warn them against. And I didn't put it in the book. Um, when I was trying to fight the parasites, thinking that was the root of my problems, you know, not knowing about EMFs or anything. And and like the thing about parasites is that they will pro proliferate in electromagnetic fields. It's again, like these fields will cause certain things to grow more, yeasts and fungus and stuff. And yeah, they can make you feel bad. Um, but you're never gonna work, you're never gonna get rid of them just by like killing them because they're comeback, but come back, you're in the EMFs, you know? And so you need something else to help with that. Anyway, I tried this, um, these protocols, and one of them was a little extreme. It was herbs in that, but you can go crazy with the herbs too. Some of them are really powerful. But I tried the um zapper. Do you know about the zappers? Uh who hold the Clark?

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Oh, yeah, I do. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yeah. So before I became really electricosensitive, and this might have something to do with it. I, you know, looking back, um, I got some pieces of copper, like she advised. I made my own zapper, got a nine-volt battery, hooked it up with alligator clips to the copper, wet paper towels held on to this in like zap, you know, electrocuted myself intentionally for you know, an hour or whatever to kill the parasites because allegedly, like a lot of our approaches with allopathic medic alleged medicine, allegedly you can target, oh, well, these things in your body will die at this, but the rest of it will be fine. We can't do that. There aren't that's not possible. That voltage obviously harms something else. You know, there's, I mean, we don't understand, you can't, we're trying to always dissect things to the smallest parts and understand life that way, and you can't understand life that way. And no matter how much we talk about all this stuff, I mean, I'll talk about these solutions, but I can't really tell you how why necessarily they work. We can theorize, but I'm not gonna be arrogant enough to say that I know why. You know, I know exactly why, because of science. You know, we can measure everything, we know why. We don't. These are theories and these are ideas we have, but I don't really know a lot, and it's fine. We should be okay with mystery. Like, I'm kind of become okay with mystery now. Like, this is one of my lessons has been things are mysterious, you know, and like so. Okay, this feels good. It's mysterious, it's coming from the earth. I don't know. This is what we're supposed to live in. I think this is why it's you know, we're so like how have our ancestors lived, how how have healthy people lived? We should look at that. Like healthy people throughout history, how were they healthy? Really healthy. I mean, like people living into their hundreds and you know, strong and healthy and don't have all these weird illnesses we have now. Like they don't call it like the diseases of civilization for nothing, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

So, how were people healthy before all these miracle medicines? Like, how were they healthy? You know, and they didn't have, they weren't poisoning their environments, their foods, they didn't use pesticides, they didn't use herbicides. Why were they healthy? Right. So, and the key things to me, and we'll get I want to talk about sunlight, is sunlight exposure. And so it doesn't matter where you live. I mean, it could help if you have more sun or not, but it's what matters is because the way we're living now is like most people are indoors during daylight hours and they're exposed to blue light, which is artificial lights. Um pretty much all light now is blue light because they took away our tungsten or incandescent bulbs from us. They stole those away, right? And um, so and there's a lot we could talk about there just with the waveforms and you know, the lengths of the wave waves and so but the the color of it specifically. So there's like wavelength and there's color and there's flicker, you know, so we've got the flicker problem with the fluorescence and um which really disturbs some people a lot, you know, people who don't call themselves electrosensitive, like they have a they can't handle flicker, you know, or even from a screen. Like the LED lights and our screens are terrible. I mean, I have a blue filter, blue light filter on my screen right now. I usually wear blue light blocking glasses, but they tend to glare too much for this interview, so I don't use them for this. But if I didn't wear those glasses, there's no way I could spend hours writing on my laptop. It like my eyes hurt so much, you know, they really start to hurt. People get that fatigue and their eyes are sore. Well, that's why, you know, you're staring at this screen with these lights. And so, but the main thing about that is and why people are having trouble sleeping. And I try, and one, the first thing I tell people, um, I know we're not talking to this kind of audience, but the Wi-Fi is a light source. You know, you're not seeing it visible, but it's affecting you like a light. It's like a blue light. So if you have that on while you're sleeping, it's like sleeping the lights on, and people know they don't usually sleep very well with the lights on. But it's worse than that because it's worse even during the day, if you're exposed to blue light during the day. So blue light is like most like sunlight at noon. So if you're like you're basically getting like noon sunlight all day long and at night, then you're really messing up your hormones. Like this is including melatonin production. Melatonin production happens all day long, it doesn't just happen at night. So, like you need the sun, the sun, you know, we're like made to rise with the sun and go down with the sun and be exposed to it during the time it's out, you know, not just a few minutes, but like the more time the better. And the the I usually feel the best when I'm outside most of the day. I just do. And it doesn't matter if it's cloudy or sunny or raining, if I'm outside most of the day, and then I go to bed shortly after it's dark, um, and get up shortly, you know, after as soon as it's light, then and that was one of the main things I did at first was to get my sleep scheduled back, was to make myself get up with the sun and to go to bed, you know, shortly after and and to keep with that. And that really made a huge difference for me. Um, you know, and also sleeping outside on the ground. Um, so you've got the Earth's, you know, resonance, the Schumann resonance. Again, it's like, okay, then we get into measuring things and science. I don't know, is that why we feel good at the, you know, on the ground? Um, maybe there was a lot more to it than that. Maybe there's things we can't totally understand, but we know it makes us feel good. So let's do that, right? And that's let's support ourselves that way. Um, you know, Epsom salt baths, that was a big thing for me. And I know a lot of my friends too kind of survive that way. Um, and I think that's just that you could talk about the ions, you know, negative ions and and that, um, you know, from salt water. Um, one of the things I do here as soon as we moved out here a couple of years ago is I got into surfing. And so I um I bought a wetsuit and surfboard and um, you know, because it's cold water here, so I've got a thick wetsuit. But it's like it feels so good to be in the water in salt water, you know, and under the in this when the sun's out and then be on the beach. Even though there's towers, I can see them from the beach, you know, they're not right there. But like I'm at a point now where it's like I still that's still so helpful to me that it's somehow it counters that for me, you know, um, being in that in that environment. I mean, of course, now there's talk of I mean, I wrote about this in my book, I think a little bit, but you know, wanting to like add the internet to the water to the ocean, you know, too. Like, let's have it there too. And like, you know, let's replace fish with robot fish or something. I mean, it's just like, you know, there's a there's a real sickness um in this attitude, the futurists, as they call themselves, you know, um, they're the they're they're sick to me, they're unwell, they want to replace the natural world with an artificial replica, thinking that's better, you know, and we already have that kind of mentality with our bodies, and we've been trained a long time to think, well, an artificial hip is better than your real hip. Um, all these replacement parts are better, this drug is gonna be this chemical we're gonna add to your body is better than, and so I think I want to like encourage people to let's get back to natural wisdom, you know, natural wisdom of your body and listen and listening to that, connecting to the natural wisdom of the earth. And we see that we're more resilient than we know, and so is the earth. Like you were saying, if we could just get in these environments, like how much could we recover? Probably a lot, you know, probably a lot more than you'd expect to recover. Um, and then at the same time, you know, and I again I might I don't know, I haven't been able to be in a pristine, completely pristine environment this entire time. But um, when I did finally get out of like the really bad stuff and move to Arizona, it took me a longer to recover at first than than I ever expected because I was a lot sicker than I realized. And I want to kind of emphasize that because at first, um when I when we got away from that, I realized that I couldn't handle EMFs in the car. This is an old car, you know, doesn't have all the fancy new stuff. I had to sit in the back seat, I had to be driven places, I couldn't even like get go to town at all. I couldn't cook on an electric stove because that's all we had was an electric stove. I couldn't stand there with a refrigerator. I mean, I was extremely disabled, and this was like the first year, and I had I had to be taken care of, you know. Sam had to cook and go grocery shopping and do everything. Um, and so it was impoverishing too. I still maintained a and this is maybe why I didn't recover as quickly, as I I still had an administrative job I had to do online, I had to be on the computer most of the day. And this is a problem for a lot of people, um, is that now all the jobs, any job you can think of almost needs a computer. You know, and it's like this is even though you're farming, you need a computer. I mean, it's just kind of crazy now, right? It's gotten so crazy. And whoever would have thought when this started, when personal computers came out and the internet, that we would have to have them, that it wouldn't be an option. And I think that's a good reminder just to remember that, like to realize that these used to be they were sold even as augmentations, you know, conveniences, but now they're necessities. Right. And now it's getting so you can't bank without them. You know, you're not going to be able to do anything without them. So it's like you can't travel. So, so it's a trap because they they're not, these things are are becoming, you know, it's caused us to reconfigure everything and our society so that we're completely dependent upon them while they're robbing us of our health with the blue light. And but but what I was saying about the light cycles is like it's amazing how much that helps. That's that cures so much with your body. Like it's just, you know, if you could, yeah, one if it's a one take-home thing, it's like light cycles, right? Getting on the light cycles, that's it. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

So much, so much good. And I just can't believe how the time flies when we talk. Um, yeah, I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much for all of that. I want to I want to touch on some of the things you said just uh just to re-emphasize. I see this. Um our journeys are a lot similar. I've lived in dark houses, I've lived without refrigeration, I've lived without you know, power of any kind, I've lived um, you know, cooking over wood instead of whatever. I graduated to a propane powered stove, and that was a big increase in quality of life. And um so you know, that flexibility and willingness to do whatever it takes is uh kind of a characteristic of people who survive this. Um Deedre Klinghart, I think, once famously said that most people. Supper as we do, just go away and die quietly. And um I'm glad to see you're not doing that. And you're not only not doing that, but you're helping other people. And so some of these things that you've mentioned, I see in my um clients as well. Very much, you know, with the the earthing or the grounding. Um I don't know that I can adequately explain all the benefits of that. I know that the earth is a source of free electrons, and I know that um EMF exposure is oxidative and it creates oxidative stress, and chronic oxidative stress is the fountain head of all chronic disease. So I know that earth helps with that, but you gotta stop nuking yourself as as priority number one. And then I think what she said is so wise about getting in the right light cycles. All of this that we've been offered, all of the the blue light that comes from LED fixtures of fluorescent lights, they're all abominations of nature, none of them have the proper spectrum. They have the properties you were talking about with um flicker and whatnot. And they're also they're they're like little radio transmitters, honestly. You can take an old AM radio and hold it up next to a bulb, tune it between stations, and you'll hear and that's all being transmitted into your immediate environment. So you talked about if you have to use a computer, and I thought most of us do, putting on something to shield yourself from the blue light, the unnatural blue light. Because the blue light is telling you something, and there's information in that. It is telling you that it's moon or thereabouts. Because that's when the blue light in nature is at its peak and you have this circadian rhythmicity in your body, and you have a superchiasmatic nucleus that's you know, setting the the standard to tell your body the time so you can run all of your processes effectively. So I think when you're talking about using the blue light glasses, and I just want to emphasize that it's not outdoors, you know, you're no you're only wearing those.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Yeah, I should I want to say I don't wear sunglasses. I gave that was one of the mistakes I was making before I learned about this. A lot of my life, and and some of the and it was it was silly. The reason I was even wearing sunglasses was I was didn't want to get wrinkles on my, you know, I didn't want to have the wrinkle here because it was just it was just vanity. And you know, because I squit more. Like, well, I have a wrinkle there, whatever, you know. Like I I do not wear sunglasses, and I stopped wearing sunglasses living in Arizona, you know, with talk about sun, that sun is crazy, right? I stopped wearing sunscreen even on kayak trips in Mexico, okay. In northern, I mean, I don't wear sunscreen and I don't wear sunglasses, right? And anybody can do that. You could nobody used to do that. Like, I don't care what complexion you are, um, you can build up that resistance again in your skin, like you're meant to, right? You can live anywhere you want and you can be outside all day and you could be a redheaded person. This is what Jack Cruz proved, right? He's like a redhead, right? He like you don't need that. That is poison. And I don't care what if it's zinc oxide, whatever, that's poison. You don't want zinc oxide in your body, like all that zinc oxide, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:23

You don't especially nano ridiculous zinc, zinc oxygen.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

It's nano zinc now, right? And I mean, this is like, yeah, I didn't. It's funny, people are so afraid. We've been conditioned to think you'll get skin cancer, all these horrible things will happen. That's ridiculous. People didn't have skin, they didn't have skin cancer before they start working in offices and blue light environments. Those are the people who get skin cancer, you know. Um, so I don't, yeah, I do not wear sunglasses, I do not wear sunscreen ever. And this has been several years now, and this is why I've been recovering, right? I've been getting better. Um, and yeah, I might get a little burned sometimes, but you know, if I think I haven't had enough sun exposure and I'm going into it without having, you know, built up, then I'll wear more clothing. You know, I mean, it's like you just you can build up to it. And the main thing that people don't realize is that you need the infrared exposure early in the day and later in the day, not just the bright sun. And that infrared exposure protects you from the bright sun. That's the whole point. Like it all works together. You know, there's a natural intelligence, like I've been saying, and it is intelligent, right? So um, and I was just thinking while we were talking that noon, this blue light actually, because we think, well, noon day would be the most energizing time of day, but it isn't. That's when people get tired and need to rest. You know, usually around noon is when you take a break and you have food and you relax and you maybe have a siesta. You know, like if you think about traditional cultures, working outdoors, you rest in the middle of the day. And so actually it's fatiguing in a sense, too, right? It's gonna make you feel tired. Um, because it's like, oh, that's the time I'm supposed to like, I'm supposed to be relaxed resting now. Um yeah, I mean, there's just so much the thing that I have to you keep telling, telling people it's like these are artificial. Um, you can say that, oh, well, there's radio frequencies in the environment, there's EMFs in the environment, but it's different because it's not artificially produced. And so um, like for example, they try to tell you that X-rays are the same as being in the sun, and that is completely absurd. There's no similarity there. You know, you can look at I mean there's no, you can't compare them. Don't compare them. You know, you don't, I mean, they tell you the dentist, oh, it's only like being like 10 minutes in the sun. Like, no, it isn't. The sun is beneficial. The sun sustains all life. This is why we all are alive and the plants grow. X-rays don't do that. You know, x-rays destroy you, destroys life. So, no, don't tell me it's like standing in the sun and the sun is bad. I mean, we're told that the natural world is bad and the artificial world is good, and this is the backwards programming we've all had to deal with. And we have to keep dealing with it and keep remembering that we're, you know, being conditioned that way and programmed. It's not the truth, right? So don't be afraid of the sun and um go out in the sun. And of course, like don't go crazy if you haven't been in the sun for months or years, like do it a little bit at a time. Um, oh, sun gazing is amazing. You know, I've started doing that. Um, well, I unfortunately I don't live in a place it's easy to do because we're we've got these high ridge lines around us um and we have to wait for the sun. So once it's winter, like we barely, the sun barely comes up over it. But I started doing that. And that's so that's really interesting. I like that um, you know, that's it's actually staring at the sun, the thing you're told to never do. We're a child, never stare at the sun. Um, but I'd still say don't stare at it at the middle of the day. Um, it's pretty bright then. So early, early in the morning, um, you know, when it's just come up, the first like hour after it's come up, I think it's up to an hour after it's risen, it's safe. And then like right, you know, an hour before like a couple hours before I think it uh sets, you can do it. I mean, there's instructions online, you know, about sun gazing. But um yeah, I'd like to get to into that more um this year, this summer, and try to do that every day. And that's a good practice because then you're like getting up with the sun and you spend time looking at it and it's meditative and you know, and candle looking at candlelight, using candlelight. You know, we um spent most of the winter with candles, and it's actually really nice to have the fire going and heavy candles. It's really relaxing. I mean, I'm guilty of still occasionally watching a movie at night, which is just or sometimes working at night, which is really bad, and then I really don't sleep well. Um, you gotta go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:42

My battery is about debt. I would love to continue this indefinitely. But um yeah, this is fantastic. So next time we talk, if there's next time, I want to talk to you about forest bathing and uh Epsom salt baths, ditto on that and whatnot. And I'm sorry I have to um end this quickly, but I don't want the battery to just come from the middle of this. But I do want to leave people with again, if you haven't a copy of this, you need to get a copy of this. Um, it is such a refreshing read to understand that there are other people out there that are suffering from this type of poison and it's been written beautifully. It's very easy to read. We didn't even talk on one tenth of what's in the resource section today. So there's a lot of richness there. And um, I'm just so grateful to uh have the opportunity to talk to you and uh I look forward to maybe one day we can meet in person because that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for being with us today. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

You're welcome. Thank you.