187 Electromagnetic Colonization with Shannon Rowan

Your brain is your only instrument for discernment and it’s the first thing that gets quietly dulled when your environment keeps turning up the signal. We sit down with author Shannon Rowan to talk about what she and so many others notice after years around Wi‑Fi, cell towers, and always-on devices: the slow normalization of brain fog, insomnia, anxiety, reduced focus, and that “fried” feeling you only recognize once you finally get away.

We explore why the simplest test is also the hardest test today: leaving the exposure long enough to feel the difference. Shannon shares how symptoms can clear when you create real distance from electromagnetic fields, why indoor-only remediation often hits a wall, and what traits actually help people not just survive electrohypersensitivity but build a good life again. We also follow a bigger thread: what happens when there’s no control group left and no place untouched by synthetic fields, and how that shift changes culture, language, attention, and human presence.

Then we zoom in on behavior and the dopamine economy. We break down how phones and platforms use intermittent variable rewards to hook attention, why kids are paying the highest price, and what practical boundaries can restore calm, focus, and real connection. Shannon also teases her next book, a provocative look at vitamins, supplements, and “poison in the dose.”

With no obligation, complete the form at emfremedy.com/apply and we can discuss whether this training is a good fit for your specific needs.

Transcript

Welcome And What We’ve Lost

Keith Cutter 1:17

Welcome to the EMF Remedy Podcast. And the other thing that you mentioned was with regard to indigenous peoples. And I'm not saying that this is a war on mankind. I'm not saying it isn't either. But we are either in the process of or we've already wiped out the indigenous peoples. And so there's no contrast that way.

Speaker 3 1:46

The reason for like the complete genocide and destruction was to not give the colonizers, any of the people a different option, life lifestyle option, because then they wouldn't be able to secure them under the model they wanted, right? So what I'm seeing happen now is very similar.

Feeling Better Once You Leave

Speaker 3 2:22

Hi, Keith. Thanks for having me back on.

Keith Cutter 2:25

Do you think that people have any idea of what they've lost in the last generation?

Speaker 3 2:34

Only the people being labeled sensitives. Here's a good example. Recently, a friend, you know, my partner, and we can talk about this, as you know, did not think he was affected by these fields. And when I started being affected, it was all the focus was on protecting me and getting me out of it and helping me. But he found as he removed himself from these exposures that things that he didn't know were linked to the exposures cleared up for him. And he started feeling better and more vibrant health and cognition and focus. And then when he goes back into the fields, he feels what they're doing to him, what they were always doing to him. But now he feels it and he feels it like it's messing with his brain. And, you know, it like he feels fried. I mean, that's the best descriptor. Like when we go into the fields and we we come back, we're like recovering. You know, we feel like we're recovering, we feel like we've been fried. So he was saying to a friend, because he was over at the friend's place and the Wi-Fi was on, and you know, there near there's a new cell tower nearby. And he said, Oh, I'm just like I'm feeling kind of fried, like needs to leave. And he said, the friend said, So are the rest of us immune? This is his question, right? And that's I think how most people look at it like, well, I'm fine. You're not. You're saying you're hurting and this is hurting you. Well, I must be immune. You must have some deficiency. Like we're not equally affected the same exact ways, but we're equal, we are affected. This happened for my partner, Sam. He also had things clear up that he didn't know was related to the exposures until we got away from them. Most people, more and more, don't have a chance to get away from them to make a comparison test with how they feel. So they don't know the difference, they don't know how it feels to feel away, be away from them.

Keith Cutter 4:28

So when you go out in public, you have to go to a grocery store or whatever, interact with friends or the community. Do you find yourself looking at other people and wondering whether they're being affected? Do you do you see cognitive issues that you've never noticed in the past? Do you see uh common complaints about health situations that we don't remember from 20 or 30 years ago?

Speaker 3 4:57

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know that many really healthy people. I mean, if you think of think about it, and these are like, I'm thinking about friends who are health conscious, who try to eat well, who try to avoid what they would consider to be poisonous, who care about the environment, but they all have their cell phones on them all the time. And they're all having something that they're dealing with that I don't think they should be dealing with, particularly at their ages. And some of them, it's I see the cognitive thing a lot. Yeah, I see this like um inability to focus and make eye contact and continue, like just complete a sentence, like a simple sentence, you know, where I'm engaging a conversation, the other person kind of goes, uh, and I'm like, yeah. You know, and I'm like, why is this even happen? Why is this person doing that? You know, it's just like uh the distracted mind, but it's the field because they're not even at that moment being distracted looking at the phone, but they might be mentally thinking about the phone. You know, that's another problem. Like the phone is in the pocket, they're wondering about the text they're supposed to be looking at or getting, they're thinking about looking at email. It's a distraction that pulls you away from deep focus and just presence. So people actually don't realize it, but you can be addicted to the fields, like caffeine, like any stimulus addiction. And so people want to be around it because they feel tired otherwise, they feel depressed otherwise, because they because they're coming off the high. And so it's really important to understand it works like a drug.

The Subtle Cognitive Drift In Public

Keith Cutter 6:38

My wife had the same experience. She would have never said she was uh affected at all. But then when we moved into a pristine environment, in my case, uh a a country home, so relatively low exposures outside, but then none inside because of the way that the house was built. And then after a few years, I think it was after our first interview sometime that she started to notice that her eyes didn't have to hurt all the time. Her head didn't have to hurt all the time. A lot of other symptoms as well. And now she uh sometimes uh responds uh more quickly than uh I do, and I was uh pretty darn affected by the fields as well in my maybe you call it my acute phase of of understanding uh these fields and the feedback from my body and whatnot. And so I just thought that was interesting. And you know what breaks my heart is just how many people can get away. You know, people will take their cell phone with them even into nature and it's constantly emitting synthetic field exposure, so they're never gonna get that distance from it that's gonna allow them that context between being exposed and being not exposed. And you've written an entire book. Which I recommend, it's one of the seminal books in this field, in my opinion. Um There is nothing like it, and that's uh Wi-Fi refugee, where you don't just talk about your personal experiences, which is uh very valid and very important, but you chronicle uh the experiences of a number of other people who are dealing with this issue. My question is uh what are the characteristics of somebody who not only survives this type of poisoning long term, but goes on to live an abundant life?

Stubbornness Flexibility And Real Support

Speaker 3 8:53

Stubbornness.

Keith Cutter 8:55

Oh, I like that.

Speaker 3 8:57

No, I think it really is. That's probably the first trait. I think I tribute my I have like a stubborn fighter spirit that doesn't, you know, easily accept things like conditions placed on me, imposed on me. So um yeah, but okay, but that well, joking aside, yeah, there is this kind of like um I guess I mean at the the heart, the kind of root of it is sort of like the will to live, the will to continue, like a strong will of some kind, the will to not be defeated. So that's why I think I mean by stubbornness, like I'm not gonna let this get me down and ruin my life, you know, kind of attitude. I'm gonna find solutions. So I'm always been like, I've had to live very frugally a lot of my life. I've had to, you know, fight for myself a lot. It wasn't handed a silver spoon, you know, make my way in the world, just you know, often scraping by, but I had to do a lot of things, figure a lot of things out. But the what's that's done for me is it's made me more um like able to puzzle things through and you know, and like figure out something no matter what I'm dealing with. So, you know, creative solutions to these things. So it's helped immensely to have a partner. I don't know, I can't say how it would have been for me to do it alone. So I don't want to say I'm like better than other people dealing with this because I am like, you know, have this attitude. It's I have support.

Keith Cutter 11:26

You think that willingness to make changes in your life, the willingness to maybe discontinue old habits and do things in a different way is somewhere in the top 10 of people who survive and then go on to thrive?

Speaker 3 11:46

Yeah, flexibility, you know, definitely, because and that comes with like the territory of like creative solutions and problem solving is like to be able to be willing. I mean, I prioritizing your health and your needs. You know, I know people who've stayed in bad relationships that you know didn't that pay with unsupportive partners because they felt like they, you know, whatever, they rationalized that, but they're having they have a partner who doesn't believe them, whatever. So they're having to like stay and not even be able to make small changes that would really help them a lot, like turning off the Wi-Fi, hardwiring things in the house, you know, don't have support for that and stay in that situation, you know. So yeah, I mean that's not gonna work out if in like you have to have at least a one person in your life that believes you and you know is gonna support you. It doesn't have to be like a romantic partner, somebody living with you. You need a friend, and you need to like, you know, make that friend. I found my own way, like writing the books and doing interviews. I guess what I'm getting at is taking care of your emotional well-being, whatever that looks like for you, is also really important. Prioritizing that this is important. I have to get away from this. I tried to just stay in the city and shield and do remediation stuff, but realized that wasn't working and that really needed real recovery somewhere. And so we just made that the priority, and things opened up from there, and then you know, be willing to make the changes necessary. And that's what everybody's dealing with is like not being able to, and I think similar to I don't remember who first talked about this and pointed this out. Was it Furstenberg or somebody? But oh no, I think it was Thomas Cowan and one of his books, but it's such a good example. But he made a point about learned that the Native Americans, when the settlers came, he said when the set the settlers came or the colonizers came, and you know, he fought all the natives and drove them off their lands and everything. And when there were like prisoners taken by the natives, and you know, the colonizers took prison native prisoners, and when they did exchanges, the white man who was taken by the natives didn't want to return. The soldier didn't want to go back, he wanted to stay with the natives because he liked it better, it felt better to live the way they were living and live with them, even as like a prisoner. And so there was this realization that the reason they had to like wipe out those, you know, groups and their way of life and destroy their way of life is if you give the option, if you're trying to colonize and you say, like, this is how I want this world to look, and you know, and you're controlling that, you don't want to give people options that are better because they'll take them.

Keith Cutter 14:40

All right, let's pause. Let's pause for one second here, because you just said a lot of important things.

Speaker 3 14:44

Yeah.

Keith Cutter 14:45

Do you think so you were living in Washington, DC when you became really sick, is that correct?

Speaker 3 14:52

Yes.

Keith Cutter 14:53

Okay. Do you think that you could have endured? Do you think you could live as vibrant a life as you have now? That you could have written these last three books that you've written and just tried to stay remediated within that place where you're living and kind of live an indoor lifestyle and whatnot? Or you mentioned the importance of getting away from these synthetic feels. So where would that be on your list? Is that like the first thing people need to do? Is it then top ten or what's your priority on that? First thing.

Speaker 3 15:27

I mean, there's no way, no possible way I could have written any books that would not be been coherent at all. I mean, for me, the cognitive function was like probably the biggest problem, even though, you know, at the time I felt like other physical pain that maybe felt

Why Getting Away Comes First

Speaker 3 15:45

worse, but I could not, I couldn't even make senses sometimes. I couldn't speak well. I was having trouble thinking. I was really struggling cognitively. I saw a lot of friends having similar problems in DC and having the insomnia, having brain fog. Brain fog is like, you know, that even the fact that we have this word now, this descriptor of something that everybody seems to have at least some of the time. But I couldn't like organize my thoughts enough to write something, to let alone a book, you know, let alone speak. So I that all happened to me. I started having that awareness that I could do that and you know, noticing an improvement when we moved away from them when we got out to Arizona and after some recovery time too, not right away. So for sure, I mean, so there's so much benefit of like it was scary to move, it was scary to leave friends behind, a whole like not have any money. But the kind of experiences we've had and being able to be in wilderness so much as like part of our daily lifestyle. There's like we I mean, we rough it. We have grit now. I didn't have grit before we have it, you know, and it's like it's better. I I wouldn't trade it now. There's no way. I don't care if there's no way I'd go back. No way. Like I'd rather not have electricity, even if we didn't have the like for a while we didn't even have indoor plumbing. I'd go back to that first. I'd go, I'd camp. I would live in a tent rather than go back to those fields.

Keith Cutter 17:24

And that goes right back to one of the other primary things that you mentioned, which is this flexibility. And so the off-grid living willingness opens up huge possibilities for people. So I strongly agree based on my experience and from what I've seen helping my clients over the last years. I think the cognitive uh aspect, the cognitive deficit that's implied in living in electromagnetic fields is uh to me, it's just uh far beyond what people uh uh might uh believe. And because your only instrument for discernment is itself being affected uh when everybody else around you is behaving like a half-wit uh would have uh a generation or two ago, uh it becomes normalized. So I just wanted to put an explan exclamation point on that issue of uh you know, the neurological and behavioral and you know, anxiety and all of those uh types of uh cognitive and uh those types of issues as well. And the other thing that you mentioned was with regard to indigenous peoples. And I'm not saying that this is a war on mankind. I'm not saying it isn't either. But uh we are uh in either in the process of or we've already wiped out the indigenous peoples, and so there's no contrast that way. What what are your thoughts about that?

Speaker 3 19:05

The reason for like the complete genocide and destruction was to not give the colonizers, any of the people a different option, life lifestyle option, because then they wouldn't see be able to secure them under the model they wanted, right? So what I'm seeing happen now is very similar. Why do we have to have this expansion into every corner of the world, Earth, every, you know, I mean, sensors on every tree kind of idea of like internet of everything, right? Like surveillance of everything. Why can't there be places left alone? You know, it doesn't make sense economically, it's not like

Indigenous Parallels And The Lost Control Group

Speaker 3 19:46

an economic thing to like provide these services to like the farthest reaches and surveil them. It has no, it makes no sense when you look at it that way. It doesn't help environmentally, it doesn't help, you know, what's the purpose of that? And to me, it's like it's like you get rid of the control group, right? So you can't prove anything. You can never prove that this industry is harm is causing specific harms when there's no control group left, when there's no ability to contrast and compare with an environment that doesn't have the exposures. Yeah, this is the new world then. This is how the planet now is. This is the, you know, we have these native frequencies that, you know, support life, make us feel good, help everything to grow, help nourish and growth, and to blanket it and drown that out with an artificial one, to me can only be a nefarious thing because obviously somebody behind this and at the top of this knows what we know in some, you know, they have to. Like there's no way they don't know this. So then why are they doing it? You know, if they know that there's this net harm that will happen. And to me, it is like wiping out an Indigenous peoples. It's like wiping out this old way of like we're seeing such a like an incredible change in our society on so many levels so quickly, like with this in you know, fourth industrial revolution, so-called, um, that's just like destruction of cultures, cognitive, I mean the cognitive function too. It is like the lowest common denominator now is like, you know, getting lower and it's becoming more the norm. And how does like, yeah, how does a society or people recognize that they're getting know that they're getting dumber? You know, how you have awareness of that? I think there is a kind of awareness. Like I remember there's a kind of part of me that still feels like I used to be more smarter, you know, that I used to be have a better cognition, like that it's changed. And I can tell it's changed, but I have a lot of awareness of this through, you know, thinking about it, but also like studying about it, studying how these what I've written in my last book, The Red Shoes, there's a whole chapter on brain function called iZombie Brain. I'm thinking about actually taking that and putting it into its own book because it's I think it's so important. And people, when I talk about this book, The Red Shoes, we don't really end up talking about that chapter. It was like the longest chapter to me, and one of the most important ones, but I feel like maybe it needs to be its own book, and that might happen. But I mean, if you just look at if you just try to read like 19th century literature, 18th century literature, and see how you do. I mean, I used to be able to read that so easily when I was younger, and I don't think it just has to do with aging. I think it has to do with like the fact that our concentration is so fragmented and it's and that requires more concentration. We've lost our vocabulary is reduced. So all these things are changing really rapidly, and we're losing like language and culture, and and I think that the need for this thing to kind of the thing I'm gonna call it to kind of encroach and take over, it's like any anybody who wants to have power and who's greedy about power and wants more power doesn't see a limit to that and they see everything a threat to it. So say you have this idea, and you maybe you think you're right, maybe you think it's better for everybody and everything if we all become transhumanists, you know, if we all merge with machine, the next evolution of humans. But it feels like in that sense, it feels like an attack on humanness and humanity and biological life. There's a sin bio, there's so much, I mean, all the money, everything is going into like synthetic bioengineering, you know, adding chips to everything, you know, making our computers more, giving it more sensors while our senses are destroyed. You know, it's all changing your environment is going to change you. It's changing us. And this is part of an experiment, I think, to modify humans to make us different from what we were. And I already started to feel like if I fantasize about going offline completely, and I wonder where that would lead me in this world, like how would I function in it? How can anybody function in the world if they can't get on the internet anymore? You know, it's no longer an option, really. It's like become something we're dependent upon, like just to have a livelihood to do anything, to communicate, to, you know, so I try to imagine what would happen what will happen to people who resist completely and don't want to go online. Will we have a reservation that we're put on? Will we just be killed off? Like, I mean, what, you know, I mean, it is like what are what how you're not allowed to, it's like the new indigenous peoples who want to live an earth-centered, nature-based life and be healthy outside of the tyrannical system that wants to control everything and wants you on medications and synthetic foods and you know, and dependent on it, on its system that it's put in place.

Keith Cutter 25:08

The new indigenous peoples and how will we survive? So last year I just finished the very last day of a very stressful week of teaching new EMF consultants, and it was it was so wonderful. You know, I just feel great that I'm able to help people then be able to help others in their local communities by lowering their exposures. But what I wanted to say is I'm on my way home and I'm kind of feeling you know, that sort of satisfaction of a big job has just been completed. And I see by the side of the road a beautiful flower stand, and I'm out in the middle of nowhere. And so the car just sort of drove in. Oh, I think I'll go in here. And there was an old woman, and I know the flower farm because my wife used to take uh guests from the assisted living facility where she worked out there to see it is just absolutely beautiful. But I didn't know this woman, she didn't know me, and she walks up to me, or I walk up to her stand and she says, Uh, are you a professor? I just got such a kick out of that. I I I'm thinking you know, I'd just been teaching for a week and whatnot. I don't have the university, you know, I'm not a tenured professor, the kind of thing. But she had some kind of intuition, and she noticed a book that I was in the process of reading at that point, and she was really curious about it. And she was just such a real person. And she's making her humble living, you know, probably through social security and selling beautiful organic flowers to people. And I'll bet she doesn't have internet. You know. I bet she doesn't care what's going on in Facebook. But I don't know. I don't know what that new how did we term that new indigenous people might look. But it is very interesting that they seem to be going through a lot of effort to make sure that there's no place you can go without synthetic field exposures. We've we just kind of scratched the the surface here of this first question that I asked is do you think that people recognize all that they've lost? And and we've talked a great deal about what the potential harm is of uh living in synthetic fields. But yeah. Then there's the whole behavioral thing. So uh my wife saw this comical situation. I I thought it was hilarious when she related to me. It was uh a family who had young men in their early twenties helping out and they would send one to go do something, and they were living in the country, and so he's out on this piece of acreage. And she described how he unfortunately had this huge uh disability because he was a one-armed man trying to do essentially farm chores, but he couldn't uh release this crying mirror that you know that he was staring into. And then you see people I I read this incredible article, um a very gifted writer on Substack who takes very complex issues, tons of research, and boils it down. And I'm looking at the comments on this one article, and the guy said, Well, I took your essay and I put it into AI and it said it wasn't right. I'm thinking why would

Real-World Presence Surfing And Community

Keith Cutter 28:41

you use AI to try to determine the validity of something? I mean, that just seems crazy to me. And then you know, your book talks about effects the Red Shoes talks about. Well, the whole book is really about what we've lost behaviorally and intellectually and uh neurologically and whatnot. So Do you want to transition? Maybe we'll just put a t uh a foot in that, and this is a huge book. My friend Shannon can't write small books. It's a huge book. But what would you have to say? Just a few observations from there in what we have lost, and people might not recognize.

Speaker 3 29:25

I've been surfing for a few years now, but I've been really getting into it in the last six months. And what I like about it is a few many things, but one of them it reminds me of the things that we've lost. And I get to be able to kind of go back in time when I go surfing because the interactions I have with other surfers, because it's a one place where you go and people leave their tech behind. Like, I mean, maybe some of them have smart watches, but they're not, I don't know, you know. But overall, it's like surfers are going out to surf to engage in you have to be very alert, right? So that's a prerequisite prerequisite. You're gonna be alert, you can't be distracted when you're out there with the waves in the ocean. It's very dangerous, right? So you've got people that you meet who are passionate about the same thing, but they're also like engaging in the very, they're very present, they're engaging in their surroundings, you know, in that undistracted way. They're enjoying nature, they're commuting with nature. You're and you automatically become part of that group. So you get, I get my social interactions now with other surfers and often sometimes in the water, but usually before or after, and we sit and chat. And it reminds me of how things used to be with just social interactions, because we just chat in a really natural way, very present. Nobody has the tech in front of them. We're not even like talking about that, talking about our experience surfing, you know, we're talking about waves, we're talking about that. And I've met a lot of, and it's I grew, it's great. Every time I go, I don't know who's gonna be there. We don't like get each other's number to text to say I'm gonna be there or whatever. We don't, it's always spontaneous and in real time and in real life in a 3D world. And it's always really, it's just enriching on that let those levels that remind me of how I grew up, how you just go out, you know, you go out in your neighborhood and there'll be another kid, or who you just play with who's there. You don't have to like have all this scheduling involved, you know. You just like you just show up and you interact and you have fun, or sometimes it's frustrating, sometimes it's challenging, but you're always like present and you get to experience that non-virtual world, that you know, beautiful, natural, wild ocean and with other people. And that's what we've lost. You know, we've lost that kind of I mean, not completely, because there's places you can still interact with people like that, right? But um, I've decided more to just focus more on those kind of interactions and socializing with people rather than you know focusing more on contacting them on email and on the phone or and then you know, contacting. I mean, I know we're doing having to do this way, but but I'm trying to spend more of my life that way. And it's so much better. And I think it's still possible, but it's one of those things that we've lost that I think um we've lost like the dinner, like the family dinner, you know. I mean, we have family meals, we never had you couldn't have a book at a family meal, let alone like a phone that's pulling you out from that. Yeah, we've lost like um we've lost contemplative space for ourselves. We've lost like being alone in a good way, right? So people are so afraid of be alone now. When they are alone, the first thing to do is want to be with somebody else on in the virtual world. Um, but we have to have that time with ourselves to deal with hard emotions. So we're avoid, it's an avoidance behavior, too, of hard emotions and process those. So like it's more fulfilling to do that work and to have time with yourself. And you learn to become your own best friend, you know, you learn to befriend yourself. And I think we've become enemies to ourselves. You know, we're we're sabotaging ourselves, we're harming ourselves because of this drug that's so normalized that everybody, you know, says is okay and we all should be doing. But that's why I think there's a really epidemic level of feelings of insecurity and low self-worth that's leading to so much self-harm and so much generalized, just like refloating anxiety that everybody seems to be experiencing, especially young people. So we've forgotten to like that we can love each ourselves and you know be our own best friend, and because we haven't given ourselves that space even. Do you have other things you want to that you can think of?

Keith Cutter 34:13

Yeah, just maybe just maybe one other, and then I'm gonna ask you if you want to tease people about your next book.

Speaker 3 34:18

But oh yeah, okay.

Keith Cutter 34:20

But before we leave the red shoes, and it's not really fair to ask you to try try to summarize a book like the red shoes, but what really breaks my heart is children and what's happening to children. And when you combine that with a dopamine-driven response cycle, you've got everything you need to deplete somebody of a normal life and condition them into repeated patterns and whatnot. So yeah. Do you want to just say a little bit about how there's this pharmacy inside of us that's able to produce things like dopamine and how that can be precipitated and utilized? Can you just say some things about that?

Speaker 3 35:04

Yeah, first actually, I want to say, because you touch on something really important, we've lost childhood. Children don't have childhoods, they've lost their innocence. You know, they're exposed to adult content that's really harmful to them at much younger ages, and they don't get that time to just be kids and innocent and play and develop

Children Dopamine Loops And Tech Design

Speaker 3 35:25

mental issues with that. So much harm to children. It's just it's horrific. And these tech companies know that they've harmed them. That's the other thing. They've done it with full knowledge of harming them because the bottom line is user engagement and maximizing that, and they don't care if it's at the cost of children's lives, even, but definitely their mental health. And Facebook's, you know, huge, hugely responsible in that regard. One of the worst ones. Yeah, so dopamine, though, this has been really it's been eye-opening for me to research this and so and see it in my own life and how it affects me. So the danger, dopamine on its own isn't a danger. Dopamine hits repetitive without effort is dangerous because when you effort in the real world before you get dopamine hits after sustained effort nor in nature, like naturally, that's what would be happening. And when you do get it naturally, there's other chemicals released at the same time that kind of balance that out so it doesn't become damaging. So this is basically what it comes down to. So if you were like you worked all day in the, I don't know, even just like in farming, like you're doing all this work, right? And then you get that reward finally of like harvesting your food. Well, that comes at the end of like so much efforting, right? And then it doesn't harm you, and you're physically moving, and that's one of the key things. So like the dopamine hits we're getting are without any physical effort. I mean, tapping on a screen or swiping and whatever isn't physical effort. Maybe it's gonna be defined that is apparently it's defined as that because esports are can, you know, you can use as a physical education requirement, you know, to fulfill that, like with esports, and you're just hitting buttons on a computer or something. So somehow that's now physical education, that which is insane. But you get these, we've never probably ever before in our history been able to get dopamine hits continuously like this. And so we don't even really know how devastating this is yet. I mean, you'd have to be like, it's kind of like smoking crack all day long, you know, or something constant. Like, even like with other addictions, there's a limit, like your money runs out, the drugs run out, you know, then your money and you have to you can't have it all the time. But with like basically almost free internet access everywhere now, with it being portable, is constant. And you don't even have to be online, you have an electronic device, you have your games on it, you know, you can play Candy Crush all day or whatever. But it's not just the games, and that's what I think people go, well, that's not me because I don't game, you know, it's not just games. Everything about the internet is designed as a casino slot machine design. It's using intermittent variable reward system, IVR, which means that it's more addicting if you don't know what when you're gonna get your next hit and what it's gonna be. So even email kind of functions that way because like I get anxiety opening my inbox every day. I feel that anxiety because I don't know what's in there and I don't know what the content is gonna be of the emails. I don't know if it's gonna be good, bad, neutral. And I'm and it's just a lot, you know, it's a lot of them, and it's stressful because it's like about different things. I'm reading it all at once, you know, and it's all happening at once. But at the same time, it's like a dopamine hit because one of those is gonna be like a hit your pleasure center of like an approval or something, you know. And but I think about when we used to just get letters in the mail and there wouldn't be that many and it wouldn't be every day. And, you know, even with telegraphs and things, it wasn't as constant. Like we all are bombarded with messages, you know, these messages, and they're all like triggering dopamine hits. So when you go shopping online, there's all kinds of things to trigger that. Like it's congratulations, you bought something. I mean, it's like that's not how it used to be when you shopped. You have to go, okay, maybe you have buyers remorse because you're like, you know, you're not like great, good job. I mean, I guess you could have a salesperson who was really effective that way and being like, you did you good, you did a good thing, like you bought that, that looks good on you. But but it's mostly like even then, if you go to the shopping mall, you're physically efforting, you know, like you still have to walk there, you have to physically move through space. You have to like, I mean, there's so much more going on than just getting that, you know. So yeah, it's a bad cycle we're stuck in, it's really depleting and destructive.

Keith Cutter 40:04

Let me make a couple of quick comments and then I'm gonna ask you about what you're currently working on. So w I remember one one thing from when I was working in industry, and so this would have been oh, between nineteen eighty three and two thousand. And I was taught over and over again that seventy percent of face to face communication is non-verbal. And you you think about how that incredible that is, that we've not only given up all of face-to-face communication online, but we've gone just in one generation from exploring the fullness of being face to face with another living being and reacting to that seventy percent in a very positive and mutually, you know, uplifting uh manner to L O L you know on a text message. And that's the level that we're bringing up uh my grandchildren and their their children after them.

Speaker 3 41:18

So I just say that and then a cartoon emoji attached. Right.

Keith Cutter 41:24

So you don't even have to say L-O L. You just put a little smiley face or whatever the heck it is. And and then also I I'll just say with the dopamine-driven response, uh it can be so subtle as, for example, you're doing your best, you're trying to get information out there, you're trying to help people, and then somebody likes your post on uh Substack. And I'm not saying it's bad to have somebody like your post on Substack. It's just it's really hard to turn that off. You had to go through the effort to make that finally happen.

Speaker 3 41:58

But yeah.

Keith Cutter 42:00

This manipulation of dopamine tied to behavior and expects especially addictive use of electronic radiation-emitting devices. And we're realizing Tylenol is harmful. How long is it gonna be before all of this is uncovered? So we'll leave that part of the discussion behind. And um do you want to tell people what you're working on next, or are you keeping that a secret? Maybe I shouldn't have said anything.

Speaker 3 42:28

No, I can. I've talked about it on other shows. I'm I was getting pretty close to finishing, but I summer came and you know, I I just don't do it in the summer. I gotta get outside. I got stuff to do outside, you know. That that's my priority this time of year. I write when it's raining in the winter and I can't go out as much. Yeah, so I think am I okay? Can you hear me?

Keith Cutter 42:52

Yeah, you're good.

Speaker 3 42:53

Okay. So I I might get a lot of have a lot of enemies for doing this, but I'm questioning vitamins and like supplements kind of in general, but the vitamin story, I don't know, something pulled me into this topic, and it is inter believe it or not, it's interrelated with other topics I write about. Because I think it has again to do with like body sovereignty and agendas to interfere with that.

Keith Cutter 43:20

Um and okay, we're back live. So you you just said that your question like vitamins, my goodness,

Questioning Vitamins And Where To Find Shannon

Keith Cutter 43:27

you know, what could be wrong with vitamins? They're good for you, right?

Speaker 3 43:32

Yeah, that's so interesting because I would have thought that. I used to think that, and it's such it's that's one of those things we've all been so brainwashed about, like that to that degree that nobody questions it. It's like, I mean, some people are starting to, but it's been so effective, the propaganda, and it's not been a long time. It's a hundred this is a hundred-year history, that's it, right? Vitamins didn't exist before that. I'd still say they don't exist in nature, that they are man-made chemicals. So, similar to other topics I've covered like viruses, is this is a very similar playbook to the whole viral paradigm. So it's really interesting to me in that regard. But I get into the history of it, which I love to do. So it starts with all the how this all happened, and then you can kind of make some of your own conclusions. I mean, I'll make some as well as to why this happened, what's happening now. I'm just hoping to help people like I always do. I'm just helping trying to help myself help other people too. How we can be healthier, happier, freer, you know, and one of the ways is to avoid poisons. And so this is about actually I'm calling it poison in the dose. So it's all about because there's this idea that like everything's, you know, paracelsus. You know, if you've heard of him, that goes back to him and his whole like everything's poison, it's about the dose, which I don't agree with, um, at least the way it's been interpreted. And he was a really interesting character, and somehow that got me into like learning about homuncle homunculi.

Keith Cutter 45:07

Oh well, okay.

Speaker 3 45:09

Yeah, you know, these like there used to be what I'm seeing is like there's a natural synchronicities that happen, right, in the natural world, in what you might call a natural matrix, and then there's the artificial synchronicities going on with the internet, and it I feel like that there's a kind of effort to merge these or to confuse us with them that's a little creepy, but anyway, I don't mean to end on a creepy note, but I'm sure the book is gonna be wonderful, and um maybe just to give people something to relate to, so you could tell me true or false, because I haven't seen you know a draft of what you're working on.

Keith Cutter 45:42

But ascorbic acid, you know, hey, vitamin C is really good for you. Ascorbic acid is cultured on black mold, is that right?

Speaker 3 45:51

Yeah. Among other things, I mean, all these vitamins we've come to see as benign at the least, or like, you know, the worst, I guess, and then like, but otherwise are really beneficial, are chem they go through all these chemical processes, and some of them are will really amaze you and frighten you, and hopefully make you. question take like putting these things in your body because you know if it wasn't called a vitamin and you just knew it by like a chemical name and you understood how it was created why would you think this was good for you and put it in your body all right so we'll have that to look forward to and I think she just implied that we're gonna have a book finished in the winter maybe I hope by the end of the year I'm gonna say by the end of the year but so I'll be getting back to it in the fall and hopefully finishing by the winter. Maybe I could even get it out before Christmas and that'll be good. But wonderful it's gonna be shorter making a lot of effort I'm making it's still gonna be you know meaty but I'm limiting myself to 400 pages maybe 450 which was actually like Wi-Fi refugee length so not like my 600 plus ones so a bit more less intimidating.

Keith Cutter 47:08

I think all my books are readable even though I think people get might get intimidated by the size but I try to make them readable I'm just I'm just yes your but your books are readable not only that and I don't want to embarrass or you but yeah she's got an uncommon skill at writing and so it makes it very interesting to read. So I love your books. I'm sure I'll love the next one and I look forward to interviewing you on that as well. But in the meantime how can people best get in touch with your work and where can people buy your books?

Speaker 3 47:45

Yeah the simplest way you can go to my website and that could be like a one-stop shopping for you because they list my books with the links to both Amazon and BarnesNoble but you could also go to Amazon and Barnes Noble and search my name and under books and find me that way but wifi hyphenrefugee.com I also currently have ShannonRowan.com linked to that so you can just go to ShannonRowan.com find the podcast find the books I occasionally blog but I notice for me I don't really have time to put into book writing if I'm blogging so that's why I end up mostly why I didn't end up doing not doing Substack because I feel like I can't do both things. I have a lot else I do and you know you kind of have to like choose what you're gonna focus on I think is helpful. So yeah so I will put like book announcements up on the website as well so in my podcasts and any articles and that so yeah that's it.

Keith Cutter 48:43

What a great discussion Shannon I appreciate everything that you do and thank you for coming on the show again.

Speaker 3 48:51

Thanks for having me again Keith really enjoyed it as usual.

Announcement 48:54

So till next time the EMF Remedy Podcast is a project of EMF Remedy LLC. We'd like to be your trusted guide for achieving a better EMF environment in your home. The contents on this podcast are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other healthcare professional.