What if everything you thought you knew about Adnan Syed's case was turned upside down? In this episode, we pull back the curtain on the prosecution's strategies while going over their opening statement. Join us as we analyze the intricacies of this enigmatic trial and uncover the challenges of interpreting court transcripts and the potential impact of family ties in Pakistan on the case.
Listen while we dive deep into the inconsistencies of the timeline of events and our thoughts on the possibility of using a rope or other objects to aid in the strangulation. As 'armchair investigators,' we discuss the role of the juror in making sense of this conflicting information and scrutinize the prosecution’s account according to Jay , including his troubling lack of fear while driving around with a murderer.
What if everything you thought you knew about Adnan Syed's case was turned upside down? In this episode, we pull back the curtain on the prosecution's strategies while going over their opening statement. Join us as we analyze the intricacies of this enigmatic trial and uncover the challenges of interpreting court transcripts and the potential impact of family ties in Pakistan on the case.
Listen while we dive deep into the inconsistencies of the timeline of events and our thoughts on the possibility of using a rope or other objects to aid in the strangulation. As 'armchair investigators,' we discuss the role of the juror in making sense of this conflicting information and scrutinize the prosecution’s account according to Jay , including his troubling lack of fear while driving around with a murderer.
In this podcast we discuss sensitive subject matter. Listener, discretion is advised. They were both very loving. They were both very faithful and loved to tease each other and make jokes Publicly. Affectionate, yet respectful, never fought around anyone, had little disagreements sometimes, but always worked them out by talking. Neither one ever tried to hurt the other. If one was hurt, they both were hurt. A lot of empathy. If one did something to upset the other a rarity an apology was always made and the problem resolved. Both would do anything for the other. If Hay wanted space at a certain time, adnan said OK, no questions asked. Both were happy but knew it wouldn't last forever. Hey there, dee.
Speaker 2:Hey Cat, how you doing Just grand. We're back at it again.
Speaker 1:We are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Took a little bit of a break.
Speaker 2:I feel like we're on a never ending merry-go-round.
Speaker 1:I know, i know.
Speaker 2:Or the tea cups.
Speaker 1:I'm going to ask you does it feel like you took a break? Because it doesn't feel like I took a break.
Speaker 2:Well, you never take a break from this stuff.
Speaker 1:I know, i feel like my notes have grown exponentially.
Speaker 2:Like the weeds in my backyard. How like a jack in the beanstalk. It's like your notes. It really is, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's quite impressive actually. So that beginning statement that I read was part of the opening statement for the defense. It was something that was written by. They labeled it as one of Hay's best friends, but didn't say who it was.
Speaker 2:Why would they not say it?
Speaker 1:Well, i'm not entirely sure. I mean it could be because, you know, maybe it was a minor, she could still be 17. You know, i mean a lot of the people. It was hard for me to even find pictures of them. You know I showed you my little picture. You know, extravaganza that I had for all my notes, all the witnesses for the trial that we get to go over today, yay, usually I'm really excited about it. Yeah, not so much. I'm not going to lie. Okay, let me just say this I love court transcripts.
Speaker 2:I don't know why.
Speaker 1:It's okay, you don't have to know why, but I read them, like people like read books, like I enjoy them, like people enjoy books. This was not enjoyable.
Speaker 2:No, no, you expressed your frustration, for sure.
Speaker 1:Right, and I don't know if it's because Christina Gutierrez was that bad at communicating His attorney. His attorney a non-saturnee, Or if the court reporter was just that bad at court reporting.
Speaker 2:I don't know which Well like. I said, i could have probably done just as well as a court reporter, like she did, yeah.
Speaker 1:It was bad. Yeah, i mean, clearly there were certain parts that I knew was more the court reporter, oopsie. Okay, so disclaimer in case anybody isn't aware, i don't have this stuff memorized. So I have my phone that houses all of my oodles and oodles of notes and I get the drop C's. So if you hear that it's me dropping my phone, it's going to happen, and I kind of get tired of having to go back and trying to re-record over it. So we're just not Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's better that she drops her phone than drops herself, because she does that quite often.
Speaker 1:Okay, i don't do it as often as you make it seem like I do. Gosh, i think you just like it. Anyway, okay, go on My what was I saying? the court reporter. I don't remember anymore what I was saying about the court reporter, but she was just really. Oh yes, so there was this one part where it was clearly the court report. It had to have been, because the words that were coming out, or on the paper or what have you, it literally made no sense. It was like she was talking about you know the war torn, you know areas and how they were, something about them being rent apart.
Speaker 2:In Pakistan.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go ahead and say she probably meant ripped or something. So I'm going to say that wasn't Christina. I'm going to go ahead and say that was the court reporter. Yes, but I'll tell you when Christina is going into some diatribe about how Pakistan came to be, i mean, look, nobody wants to history report. I'm just going to. I mean they don't Okay.
Speaker 2:But there's obviously family ties back in Pakistan, correct? So maybe they're just trying to give an idea of where the family's morals and beliefs come from.
Speaker 1:I mean 100%. I knew that's what she was doing. I think that she did a poor job of it, especially when she uses words like mid-easters. I'm really hoping that also was the court reporter, because that was a little bit painful. Mid-easter. They consider themselves mid-easters, even in the 90s And, by the way, I for most of my teenage and adult life plenty of Muslims growing up and so forth, And as far as I remember, not once did they ever shorten it to mid-easters.
Speaker 1:Well, of course not, but you know I don't know, maybe it's an East Coast thing, i don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i don't know. I don't know if you want to blame it on that either. You might get people after you.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, guys, sorry. Moving on.
Speaker 2:Let's hope it was the court reporter.
Speaker 1:I really hope it was the court reporter because it was kind of painful. But I digress Now. The last time we had gone over the first trial, which was short, sweet and over, because Christina was not real happy about the judge calling her a liar and she moved for a mistrial. And it was granted. Because soon after she moved for the mistrial, a juror had slipped the judge a note saying hey, since you think you know the defense attorney's a liar, are we going to start over? Is she going to get fired, or whatever the case may be? And so the judge was like oh all right, well, granted, oh yeah. So do you not remember this?
Speaker 2:I don't. It's been a day and a half.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really has been actually So, yeah, so that's why it was granted. Now some would argue or say that, interestingly enough, that jury may have been leaning more towards not guilty. Now, i don't know why they feel that way, or if that's just what some of them have said in interviews or what have you, but it's also because they didn't have one final witness that the prosecution had to go, and that was the witness regarding the cell towers, and it's also believed that it's possible once they got to that witness, then they would have kind of switched their position. Who knows, yeah, who knows? Some people think it was a calculated error on Christina's part to move for a mistrial, because they may have had the perfect jury.
Speaker 2:Who knows?
Speaker 1:So I mean it's a gamble. So they went for their second trial. It's a new judge because the previous judge was like, yeah, I don't think I should be doing that one, So we have Why. But you know, it fits him down really well as an exclusive judge and another judge of the entire hearing, Judge Wanda Hurd and. I'm sorry, i can't even get past the judge's name.
Speaker 2:I know I'm sorry, what the heck, it's just so funny sounding Wanda Hurd. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Wanda Hurd the cows. Oh my goodness. Okay, move Guys. This is gonna be a fun one. Okay For now. I mean, are you gonna tell me that Kevin Urik sounds like urine? No, okay, not yet. Alright, anyway. So then on the prosecution side, we have Kevin Urik and we have Kathleen Murphy. Now, you know, i didn't even bother to find out what he's doing. It's so funny. I don't know why She is. Kathleen Murphy is a judge now.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:Should I find it interesting? Yeah, defense side, we have Maria Cristina Gutierrez, who's actually dead now, so she's nowhere, and then obviously we have Adnan Said. So that is pretty much the players of our case. And now I wrote a lot of notes. I mean I can just read my notes, i don't know, i mean. So I went through each of their opening statements.
Speaker 2:But I guarantee I'll chime in, just so you know. Okay, go ahead. Okay, just like I just did. Okay, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean. So basically what I did was I read their opening statements and I wrote notes, so like I didn't just, you know like, vomit their opening statements onto my paper, i just wrote notes about it, right? So my little notey notes start out as such. So obviously you always start with the prosecution's opening statement because it's their. This is what you call their case in chief. Hmm, their case in chief means that it's their turn to present. Their case always starts with the prosecution prosecution's case in chief opening statement. Okay, so I put Kevin Urik present at the opening statement, so he was the one giving it, not Kathleen Murphy. So he started off with the usual introduction of who the prosecution or prosecutors were, who each of them were, who they worked for, who hired them, why they're there and you know must be so entertaining to sit and listen to all that.
Speaker 1:Oh, of course. Yeah, we are happy to be here on behalf of the Yada Yada Yada AG who hired us, on behalf of 140 other blah blah blah who we blah, blah blah. That's usually what they do, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like shut up and talk. So please, kat, just get to the point, oh my point.
Speaker 1:So the point my bad. It's usually so the jurors understand this is what I wrote. So it's usually so the jurors understand that they are bringing the charges against the defendant on behalf of the state and not on behalf of the victim's family, because a lot of times that is something that is a misunderstood fact. You know, i don't know if anybody watched the Darrell Brooks case, but he kept saying where, where is you know? who's suing me? Who is, where are the victims? Where are the this, where you know that kind of thing? Who is it that brought this case against me? You know, all of that blah, blah crap.
Speaker 2:I don't know who that is.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, sometimes you make me hurt, okay, Anyway. Well, maybe we'll do that one someday too, because that was a peach. Anyway, my point is just that when one breaks the law, you're breaking the law, the state's law, and therefore you are you have. Well, it's the state's people, it's a crime against the state's people And therefore the prosecutors are there charging you with a crime against the state. That's usually how it it basically is. I think that's what I wrote. Hold on, let me look.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I don't know, I think that sounds kind of dumb. Oh, I put nobody asked. I know, but I'm going to explain why I think it's dumb.
Speaker 1:Let me read what I wrote, because I like what I wrote. I said sometimes this can get confusing. D for some people. An easy way to think about it is when someone breaks the law, it's a crime against the people of the state, so the prosecutors are there to represent the state.
Speaker 2:Okay, i understand that, but he supposedly murdered a young woman And I get it's in the state And I understand in the beginning they're, like you know, the state versus so and so I don't think they're.
Speaker 1:They try to sound smoky sexy.
Speaker 2:Well, that wasn't my smoky, sexy voice, But I'm just saying that it's like it really should have just been about, hey well, it it is about.
Speaker 1:Hey, it's just that the explanation as to why it's not a case for the victim's family, it's the state prosecutors.
Speaker 2:Right And look how good everybody in that court did for the state.
Speaker 1:I don't disagree, although the state I don't think did a terrible job, it's everybody beneath them that sucked. Yeah, the prosecutors really weren't that bad, but it was everybody else hired Right, Well it was the investigators, please that terrible? But I mean and I'm not saying that, you know that's not a whole microcosm of a problem, but again, it just it's to explain how the judicial system works. You know you want to start confusing people. I'm just trying to say this is in a civil case.
Speaker 2:It's a criminal case And this is how the criminal case is, for I'm just speaking for the people, you don't. No, i am Okay, because I know there's some of us out there that are confused. That's why I wrote that little ditty, but I was speaking on behalf of them that are still confused. Anyway, go on Any who she can go on tangents. I'm so sorry. We're trying to keep this podcast as real as possible.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, but what? who was it that just went on a tangent, but I digress. Yeah, we're trying to keep this, as usually we do a lot of this, off cam, off camera. That'll be the day. No cameras, off mic. Okay, so any who? where was I now? Help me off track, and this is very little writing. Okay, your thing goes on to do the other thing that prosecutors do And I lost my place.
Speaker 2:You're welcome, thanks, do you want me to fill in the Nah?
Speaker 1:no, i got it. Goes on to do the other thing that prosecutors and often defenders do, and that's thank the jury for coming in and performing their duty.
Speaker 2:Just a whole bunch of BS, moosing and wooing and whatever.
Speaker 1:Now I remember that this was a whole world ago and you don't remember quite exactly what happened in our last podcast. But, remember you and I had a little conversation about how I wasn't really thrilled with Christina Gutierrez's whole opening where she just came out and said I'm not going to thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do remember that This is your duty. I do actually like the way she did that.
Speaker 1:Right. So, and remember I said how Eurich was like oh, i'm really, you know, thankful for everything you've gone through the last couple of days.
Speaker 1:But everything that you're going to be going through the next few days after that and after that and for the rest of Anyway. Okay, i digress. So what's interesting is that he changed it up on this one. So I said quite a different tone from the first trial, where he thanked the jury for going through the two-day process and what they were going to be going through, et cetera, maybe after hearing Christina Gutierrez's opening statement when she told them she wasn't going to thank them because this was what their civic duty was, or whatever. What did I say? Civic duty? Oh, because this was their civic duty. But anyway, I don't know what I was writing there, but just so you know, i went back and forth, but my whole point was is that in this one his tone was very different Of?
Speaker 2:course.
Speaker 1:Because in this one he was more like thank you for being here to perform your civic duty. See, he stole her shit. He totally did He totally. And let me tell you it's not the first time he takes the wind out of her sail.
Speaker 2:But I mean, look at it. She's so right when she says it is our civic duty because we make more money at work than we do sitting on a jury, Of course 100%. Could you imagine, Kat, if you and I sat on the same jury?
Speaker 1:Oh my God, i fucking kill you. I know it, We'd share a room too. Oh my God, one of us would not make it out alive.
Speaker 2:And it wouldn't be her.
Speaker 1:I doubt that highly. But I digress Yet again. My point is just that I find it interesting that they made it very clear that nobody was to speak of the other trial in any way, shape or form. They had to go forward as if it never happened. Yada, yada, yada. And don't get me wrong, i mean, in my opinion, christina had all the advantage in the world because she basically heard their entire case except for one witness Right. So I mean, if she didn't take any advantages, that's on her.
Speaker 2:Well, clearly she didn't do much more because he ended up being found guilty.
Speaker 1:Right, but I'm just saying I can tell by the opening statement that you know he definitely took notes and he definitely used them. So that was that, was that? So anyway, he goes to explain that sometimes the reason they put witnesses on it on in a certain order is because of the, you know, time constraints. Sometimes you know if they're going through like all of Hay's friends and then in the middle of that they stick in like an investigator or something like that.
Speaker 1:It's usually because the investigator couldn't come in the beginning or what have you And his point, you know, he was trying to be very eloquent, you know, and he said it's like when we're putting on a case, it's not like you're watching a live movie, you know it's. You're not going to get all the evidence played out for you in front of you, you know that kind of thing. So, and basically he told them that they were going to have to take everything that is given to them and basically put it together themselves like a puzzle.
Speaker 2:Well, let me ask you this The trial before the juries that were no longer on this new jury, were they able to give interviews?
Speaker 1:after that That's a good question. I actually didn't look at that.
Speaker 2:I wonder because I mean honestly anybody in that area or anybody where there's a big crime. You know what's going on. You know what's going on, yeah, so it's hard not to.
Speaker 1:They may have had a gag order. I don't know. It would have been smart. You know, it's something that I honestly I don't know. I didn't think to look at that. I should have.
Speaker 2:I don't think I could be given a gag order. I think you would have to like basically put you literally possibly, or put me like in a room by myself for a really long time.
Speaker 1:So like, instead of sequestering you during the trial, they'd have to sequester you for like life.
Speaker 2:Well, even if there was like a gag order after Yeah, because how can you not talk to?
Speaker 1:somebody about that.
Speaker 2:Some cases like that. I mean, can you talk to your therapist about it?
Speaker 1:I think you can only because they can't divulge information, right. So you may be okay, but you can't do it during the trial. You can't.
Speaker 2:You cannot. Could you imagine You're going through all of this? What about those trials where it's just so graphic?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like it's been brought up too, about seeing therapists. You cannot Uh-oh Like Gabriel, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, let's go on. We keep getting off track.
Speaker 1:What else is new? Okay, so anyway. So, basically, you know his main spiel is to not make any decisions about anything until they've heard everything. You know and I honestly think that most prosecutors and even defense attorneys say the same thing Make sure you hear everything, beginning to end, both sides, before you even think that you have. You know the answers, if you will. So here's where I thought things got interesting, because he starts laying out what he believes is the prosecution's evidence or what they intend to show. He starts with the phone call Jen Pussatteri made to Jay. I actually got her name right. Stop the presses. Okay, i was pretty proud of that, okay, anyway, have I yet to get her name right?
Speaker 2:No, Oh, but this again just as a recap, that Jen is one of Jay's smoking pot buddies. Right, okay, There we go, right.
Speaker 1:So they were on when they went to school together that neither one of them attend at this point any longer.
Speaker 1:Okay. So he starts. This is where he starts laying out his side with the phone called to Jen Pussatteri, made to Jay on Adnan's cell phone after receiving a garbled voicemail from him. It's their contention that at the time Jay and Adnan were bearing his body. Adnan answered the phone and said Jay was busy and couldn't talk. He then describes oh sorry, my notes.
Speaker 1:He then describes Heyman Lee. So he stops there, puts a period on it and starts describing Heyman Lee. She was just beautiful. You know, i'm not trying to minimize it, it's just. We're moving on, right? So he describes Heyman Lee. Then he starts to describe the relationship between Adnan and Hey, along with all the problems that they had. He reads several passages from her diary. We've gone through her diary a lot. He reads a lot of those things. After reading her diary he I put for quite some time. Eventually he goes on and on. He began to paint Adnan as a liar, someone who was living a double life. He then said that when the relationship ended he became enraged, that he felt betrayed and that his honor had been besmirched. It made me giggle. I very rarely hear that word besmirched. I've never heard that word. It makes me giggle every time I hear it Is it because Jay is saying it.
Speaker 1:No, this is the prosecutor. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Could you imagine Jay saying that word? I feel besmirched. Is that how he sounds when he talks? No, I don't know what he sounds like. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:If this was televised at the time I would have been all over that. I have no idea what this guy sounds like. I just kind of make him sound like a tort, i don't know. And it just made me giggle when he said that Adnan's honor had been besmirched.
Speaker 2:Okay, but honestly, out of all of their mutual friends, did anybody say that Adnan became enraged?
Speaker 1:Well, that's the thing. That's why I picked the passage in the very beginning. I didn't even say what that was, because I don't even know what happened in the beginning, but the passage did. I say what that was.
Speaker 2:Yes, you said it was from. Oh my gosh, that was like 15 minutes ago and she's already forgotten. Wow, this is going to be a really long episode.
Speaker 1:Look, okay, it's been a really long day, week, month, etc. Okay, yeah. So obviously I mean, even if that was just one person's representation of their relationship. The one thing that was and we'll get into the testimony later, but it was testified to that nobody at school was happy that Adnan was arrested. It's not like some people were like yay, they found him, they got him, they got Hayes Killer. Nobody was happy about it. So obviously that in and of itself kind of tells you something, that if nobody else at the school felt that Adnan should have been arrested, then I don't think that they obviously didn't see what they're trying to portray?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I mean it's kind of like if the guy's a jerk, he has the reputation of being a jerk not just to the girlfriend, but to several people, And maybe not everybody, but to several people. you can pinpoint who's just a jerk.
Speaker 1:Everybody has like an off day, but you're saying that this guy is so enraged that he went off the rails and murdered somebody Like that's not just a bad day, that's psychotic.
Speaker 2:And not only that, they broke up, she started seeing somebody else. So clearly I mean whether he did it to get her jealous, it doesn't matter, but that still wasn't his character, right? yeah?
Speaker 1:I mean, there's just, there's a lot that well, there's just a lot that doesn't make a lot of sense. It doesn't matter to me, you know, if he is the most logical suspect, because I don't think there's such thing. You know what I mean. We were talking about it earlier.
Speaker 1:I know you think somebody could or couldn't do something. But you, just, you, just, you don't know it, you don't anybody, yeah, so anyway, apparently his honor had been besmirched, so he set out to kill. hay, i Put something in here. Oh, that was my note to you, okay, well, anyway.
Speaker 2:Never mind Probably cussing me out for some reason I said discuss with D.
Speaker 1:Oh, but anyway, we already did that before I even saw it. Look at me, it's like I knew Wow. He then discusses the evidence they got from Jay, but not without first taking a page out of Gutierrez's book, again By telling the jury how dumb he is. He tells the jury that the prosecution doesn't get to choose who their witnesses are. Like he's pre apologizing for the lies or pre excusing The lies. So I'm gonna take this in two parts. So the reason I put that he He kind of insinuates that Jay's dumb Um well, i mean, i get it, there you go.
Speaker 1:The people spoke Okay, i get it, but so in the first trial Christina spends a lot of time Talking, you know, asking Jay questions about so you're not in the gifted program, right, because you're not smart enough. Right, cuz you're so dumb. Right, cuz I mean I'm? I'm Obviously paraphrasing, but she kept going over and over was he agreeing with her?
Speaker 2:Yeah? but I mean, you know, So you're not in the gifted program because you're not smart right, Yeah. I don't worry about that. It would be like me in the gifted program do we see that happening? No, no. So I mean like, but I'm not gonna worry about that. You know, he clearly didn't worry about that. Clearly, clearly.
Speaker 1:All right, go ahead. Oh no, I mean I just basically With, see what I mean.
Speaker 2:There goes, her own There goes my phone.
Speaker 1:Basically he was just being, you know, saying you know Woodlawn had, you know, students in the gifted program, but Jay wasn't in it. Like it was. It was sad.
Speaker 2:You have really smart people here with a 4.6 GPA, but, jay, what was yours 1.2.?
Speaker 1:Yeah, if he's lucky, i'm surprised he graduated, but anyway, did he, did he? I don't have no idea, i'd like to know. So anyway, so, so, yeah, so then he, you know, basically does the whole. We don't get to choose our witnesses. You know that we take what we can get You know gosh that was.
Speaker 1:That was him, like pre apologizing for the lying. So he then tries to convince the jury that Jay may have been manipulated. Yes, because of the circle, because of his circumstances. Oh, give me a break. So he, he does things like you know. You may not like the things that Jay does or you know, but you, you know, you may hear, and You may hear things that he does, or, or Whatever, and you may not like them, but can you see how Jay could have possibly been manipulated?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he had no more. Brain spits, brain spits, brain spits, spits brains. I'll see we're not in the gifted program, but here we go. He smoked them all away, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's it was. It was almost Insulting, I'm not sure who to them or Jay?
Speaker 2:but it was. I wonder if Jay was in the courtroom at that time.
Speaker 1:More than likely not, because usually they have. yeah, i mean, they don't believe it or not? Not all states require that that witnesses I mean does anybody remember the, the Alec Murdoch's, you know, court case like witnesses were like all up in that courtroom, were they? oh yeah, i didn't watch it. Oh, my, once again.
Speaker 2:I just knew he was guilty AF.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that she's psychic now, anyway, i.
Speaker 2:I digress again. That's gonna be the word of the day.
Speaker 1:I digress mm-hmm, it's two words digress. Oh, anyway, and anyway, yes, moving on, oh ring, moving on. Are we gonna label everything we bump, like by the end of all this, like in future recordings? we won't even have to say it though, just go snow.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, phone ring, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Anyway, okay, so after he suggests and I think he did this on multiple occasions, if I remember correctly about you know He said the exact same words Can you imagine how Jay could have been manipulated? But anyway, so the next thing I wrote down which I kind of made myself giggle when I was read Reading it is that you're decides to literally literally air all All of Jay's dirty laundry in the opening statement to take the wind out of the defense of sales.
Speaker 2:But see how is that fair If it's supposed to be a brand new trial.
Speaker 1:All bets are off.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:They can't. They can't divulge that there was ever a first trial, so it's not like she can say excuse me, your honor, he took everything that I asked him the first time that I questioned him in his first, in his opening statement.
Speaker 2:That's not fair, i know, i just think that's some cheap shots. Yeah, it's like they should have just hired a new prosecutor and a new attorney defense attorney, if only.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so he was like. He literally just aired it all out, like anything bad in his past or what he does, like the marijuana, that this, everything that you could possibly think of. That might look bad, he just kind of lays it out there, but what's interesting is that he tries to, he tries to paint Jay as a almost like a victim, if you will. So he tries to say that basically, jay got sucked into drug dealing because of the color of his skin. Oh, i can't. Because the color of his skin allowed him into the neighborhoods in order to buy and sell to the woodland. So it allowed him to go into the, the more rough areas, to buy the, the marijuana, in order for him to sell it to the woodland students. So almost as if they were using him. You know, like poor Jay, yeah, like boohoo, right.
Speaker 1:And then he was like what did I put up my favorite line? He tried portraying him as the marijuana Robin Hood of Woodlawn High. I Love that. So Basically by saying you know, for the most part he didn't even sell it to them, he just gave it away. Now again, if anybody remembers the trial, he specifically said that he stopped selling it this September before. So That was only what. Eight months, nine months prior to the trial.
Speaker 2:I wonder why he did that.
Speaker 1:Oh well, if I remember correctly, if we back it up to September, which I think, was it September, eight months prior. Yeah, i believe it was September.
Speaker 1:That would be when he signed his Agreement with prosecutors, and it was at that point He said that he stopped selling it, not that he stopped smoking it, not that he stopped getting it, but just that he stopped selling it. Oh no, i I mean, i still obtained it. I just give it away now. Yeah, so now he's trying to say that Most of the time he just gave it away. He didn't even sell it, he wasn't even making any money. really, really, i mean give me a break.
Speaker 2:I honestly think he smoked most of it even when he was selling it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I put constantly telling the jury That they may not like all of what he's he's telling them or may not like Jay, then repeats the manipulative line Yeah, oh, and I put that it he. He uses it like a jingle. You know, like if he keeps saying it and keeps saying it that somehow it's gonna stick, yeah, but keep telling you he was manipulated, then you're gonna believe me.
Speaker 2:But wait until he gets on the stand because he's a complete Idiot.
Speaker 1:He describes the call to Jay from odd non on the 12th as very casual, and I put this in quotes Let's hang out and go to the mall. That's literally how he portrayed the phone call. Odd non picked up the phone, called Jay Hey, let's hang out and go to the mall tomorrow. Like These two have never like spoken on the phone before. And odd non, out of nowhere, is gonna pick up the phone and be like Hey, dude, let's go and hang out with the mall tomorrow. I'm gonna be cutting out of school early for a little bit. And and then Jay, no like questioning it or anything, it's just like okay, like I don't bra, bra, bra On God, i mean, i don't get it anyway. So. So then the hey guys, i'm gonna sit back. So if I get a little Quieter, hopefully the podcast gods will shine down on us. Anyway, so you. Then the conversation between Jay and Adnan occurs, where Adnan supposedly tells Jay that he's gonna kill Hay, and it goes somewhat like this Hey, so I'm gonna kill Hay.
Speaker 2:Oh Yeah, huh, just get to the point Right, just you know.
Speaker 1:And the other thing according to Yurik, yurik, yurik, the first thing they do is go get some weed. Then he says that Jay drops him off at school, so it's sometime within that pickup Jay drive to get weed. Presumably they smoke, said weed, but Yurik doesn't say anything about it. I'm assuming, because you know there are some things that Jay does that they may not like, so he just doesn't speak it.
Speaker 1:Okay, and because I'm assuming that he wasn't just going to buy weed for his health, he didn't just use it as air freshener? I mean, why else would you buy weed? But he doesn't say anything about them stopping anywhere to smoke it. And you know what else? he doesn't say anything about stopping at the mall. There's no mall stop anywhere. So, according to Yurik, it's Adnan picks him up, they go buy weed and then Jay drops him off at school, takes his car and in somewhere. In that you know time frame. Adnan just says so I'm going to, i'm going to kill a hay, just blunt like that.
Speaker 2:Well, they were smoking a blunt, that's just true.
Speaker 1:So my question was what happened to the mall? So I put talks about Jay going to Jens and Adnan asking for a ride. Then he goes through Aisha seeing Adnan talking to Hay at 2.15. Miss Butler, who runs the concession stand, talks to Hay somewhere between 2.15 and 2.20. Hay picks up a soda and a bag of chips and says that she'll pay later, as she usually did.
Speaker 1:And, according to Yurik, adnan calls Jay at 2.35 to meet him at Best Buy. So I put in my little notes there I could have stopped right there in 15 minutes And that's give or take because remember, it's either 2.15 or 2.20 that she gets the soda and the chips Right. So about 15 minutes he gets to Hay, strangles her, puts her body in the trunk, calls Jay. Now I know that when you and I talked I said something along the lines of apparently it takes about 10 seconds to strangle somebody, but that's just the act of, and I still don't believe that that is going to immediately kill the person in 10 seconds, because I've heard other cases where it's taken quite a few minutes.
Speaker 1:Well, let's just say they have something to use for the strangulation rope or what have you?
Speaker 2:Wasn't there supposed to be?
Speaker 1:rope? I mean, I believe so. But my point is just, the 10 seconds is literally just the act of You're also talking about, you know. I mean there had to have been some sort of initial conversation. I mean it's not like I mean what. He just walked up, strangled her through, her in the back of the car. I mean where did this take place, that it only took 15 minutes for all of it? Well, best buy, Okay, but how did she get there with him when nobody saw her leave with him?
Speaker 2:But it even said that she left after three right, well, the last person.
Speaker 1:Well, this is on your excite. So according to them, it was between 215 and 220. Now I saw testimony from people that said that they were talking. I think it was Debbie. Debbie had said that she talked to her at three o'clock. So how it is at 235, jays calling Or Adnan's calling Hello, adnan's calling Jays is kind of a mystery to me. Now I go back to what I had said earlier about Debbie. A lot of people think that Debbie is one of those, but I wanted to. She's a Debbie downer, a little more than that. She's one of those wannabe girls.
Speaker 1:I wanna be too. I wanna do that too, but I wanna too. So you know, if so many people saw or, you know, talked to Hay, she wanted to too, right? So whether or not she actually saw Hay at three o'clock is unknown, because who can verify it right? Hay's not here to verify that. But at 235, according to Urik, hay is no longer, because that's when Jay goes to Best Buy to find out that Hay is in the trunk, because that's where the quote-unquote trunk pop happens, Right. So that's why I just put I could stop right there, because there's so many inconsistencies in the investigation, in the testimony, in The autopsy And I get All of it. I get that as a juror I wouldn't necessarily know that, but as like an armchair investigator over here where I'm looking at all of this, sitting here, going, but no, Yeah, i mean, but even if you are sitting on the jury and you're listening to them, i mean, i've never had the chance to serve yet.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just hasn't happened. So I can't imagine what it's like sitting in there listening to it. There's got to be a point where your brain just shuts off because there's so much information being thrown at you. But then it's kind of like you say that maybe people don't really know what to listen for, or the inconsistencies and stuff. Even so, wouldn't you kind of like question certain things in your head like wait, how did A and B and C and D connect?
Speaker 1:Well, i mean, i know if it were me, and I heard 220, 235.
Speaker 2:Because you also had to give the time to drive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, i'm just a little annoyed by that. I put, yeah, that's pretty much where I was kind of I could have stopped. But I put in 15 minutes Adnan strangled her and had her in the trunk question mark. Anyway, they're still selling the trunk pop story at Best Buy, which according to Jay it didn't happen there. Then Adnan says help me And Jay just willingly goes along, but of course first gotta go get some more weed, because they must have already smoked the weed that they already got earlier. But again, we're not discussing that, does Jay?
Speaker 2:ever stay where she was killed.
Speaker 1:I mean, well, we haven't gone over his testimony yet, i know, but he states oh, you're talking about in like later on Any time? Well, he says that he was never around when she was killed.
Speaker 2:Okay, so even so, like when you're driving and you're, i would think you'd be a bit panicked And you'd be like switch, do this.
Speaker 1:No, he's an idiot.
Speaker 2:See, I guess I could have been in the program.
Speaker 1:He's literally driving around with a murderer and doesn't care because he's going to buy weed. Yeah, i'm sorry, yep. You know he always tried to sell this story that Adnan was going to tell the cops that he bought a bunch of weed and get him in trouble. I'd be like bitch. I'm going to tell him you murdered somebody. Which one is it going to be? Who's?
Speaker 2:going to win here? I know, go tell him that I've bunched up And I'll tell you. tell them where we hid the body.
Speaker 1:Well, before it even it even gets there. Like the whole reason why Jay says that he helped Adnan is because Adnan threatened him. He said that Adnan was told him I know, you know, i know that you buy this stuff, i'm going to tell the cops all about you, you're going to get, you know, go to jail the whole thing. And so Jay felt that you know, because of the color of his skin and yada, yada, yada, and because of his past stuff, that he was going to get in trouble. Yeah, but this other guy committed murder.
Speaker 1:He literally murdered somebody. And you think that Adnan has it over on you? No, take a step back, dude. Look at the picture. But you know what? Not in the gifted program.
Speaker 1:Because I'll tell you what you want to threaten me with going to jail for some weed. I tell you what I call your bluff Right Right now. I call your bluff, yeah, because I tell you what there's a Best Buy right there. I'm walking right in there. Come get me bitch, because otherwise he's just a chump that is driving around with a murderer with no problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's not scared at all.
Speaker 1:No, No, he says he is. But then he says I don't know, i was in shock and you know, and I didn't know what to do And what. Not in shock, you're high.
Speaker 2:What's wrong?
Speaker 1:with these people. Look, i mean, i get it. you know 17, 18, 19,. but I don't think we were that dumb. I don't think so either. Anyway, again I digress. Oh yeah, and here we are. Then Adnan says help me. And Jay just willingly goes gotta get the weed first. That's important, right? And that's when they leave Hayes car again driving around town in Hayes car.
Speaker 1:You know, there are banks, gas stations, all kinds of places that actually, even in the 90s, had surveillance cameras. Why would they go in her car? Well, they can't leave her body in a public parking spot. Let's go to a park and ride and leave it, duh.
Speaker 2:D.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, i wasn't thinking Not in the gifted program, clearly, i mean Adnan was. So he's the one driving her car around, right, the murderer? Right, i mean I just wanted to point that out Right, the one in the gifted program is driving the victim's car around town, right, remember that people. Right. So they leave cars, cars, Hayes Try that again Hayes car at the park and ride. Then they go get weed And I put presumably smoke it, because again, yurik kind of leaves that out.
Speaker 1:Okay, so at that point they, they each make various calls. Jay calls his friend Jen Pusatieri, the defendant calls his quote unquote friend Nisha, and I guess they call, or one of them calls. he just says he, i don't know, i'm assuming Adnan, but I think Phil Mendez is actually a friend of Jay's, whatever They're all calling people. And then they drop I did say they dropped the car off at the park and ride, right, so they drop the car off at the park and ride. And Adnan says Hey, take me back to school. So they go back to school.
Speaker 1:And it's just weird because he's like he and Jay are riding around, like you know, like it's just a normal day, like you know who's got marijuana, like Hey, who can we go hang out with Like you know, i don't know, it's just he just makes it sound so like whatever. Yeah, you know, i just I don't get it, whatever. Anyway, and then Jay makes a call again to Jen Poussatteri And then, and then Adnan is like well, i got to go back to school And I need to go to practice.
Speaker 2:So whatever.
Speaker 1:So he goes, drops him off, and then Jay ends up going over to Christie Vincent's house. So there's three incoming calls while he's at Christie's house And at this point obviously Heyman's family knows that there's something wrong. The cousin hasn't been picked up. So you know they're doing what they're doing. Aisha is the first person that they call and I think they end up yeah, and then Christie is called and let me see, no, i take that back. Okay, so Aisha is called first by Young and then Aisha calls Christie. You know how telephone works.
Speaker 1:So, Young calls Aisha, asks if Aisha knows anything Aisha's like, did they say what time about? When we get to Young's testimony I think he gives like an about Okay, But it's soon after three o'clock because it's the only the only reason why Young knows that something's wrong is because the school calls. So it's got to be after three o'clock because because in school calls and says hey somebody needs to come pick her up And at that point he knows something's wrong.
Speaker 1:And that's when he ends up going and getting her diary and calling her friends. So he calls Aisha. Aisha says no, i don't know where she is. Aisha calls Christie and tells Christie that you know Hay is missing And then Christie, i believe, calls work. Okay, i just can we pause for a second? Yeah, so you know how I was talking about the court reporter, mm-hmm. Okay, i just just so you guys know sometimes how hard it is to parse this. I mean, i know that people are able to do it and they can sit here and like dissect what they're saying and write it down, write it down.
Speaker 1:But that's people who do this like as a full-time job. Right, i don't do this as a full. Do you do this as a full-time job? Because I don't do this as a full-time job. No, i have a couple other full-time jobs. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you know not that I don't absolutely love doing this. However, my point is is that when sentences occur such as Ayesha calls a friend of theirs by the name of Christie and says Hay is missing, christie Myers his call at work. She immediately calls the defendant. What the hell is that? Can somebody explain to me what the heck kind of English this is? No, it's not. So if anybody is wondering why, i was kind of struggling earlier as to who was calling where. That's why. That's why, because it's not like English.
Speaker 2:But most of the time she doesn't speak very good English. anyway, i really do actually.
Speaker 1:But sometimes, you know, i have my moments. Anyway, as I was saying, my assumption is his call at work. She immediately calls the defendant. I don't know. I'm just trying to ascertain here that Christie is trying to call Adnan And he doesn't answer, so she leaves a voicemail. Well, he was busy, right? Well, yeah, i mean you know either getting high killing Hay, or getting high or at track. No, we weren't burying yet. Oh, sorry.
Speaker 1:It was still pretty early. So and then you know, with all of the cell phone records that they have and stuff they're able to track, that particular voicemail was checked at 514. So Adnan or I'm assuming it's Adnan, because Jay probably doesn't have the code to check Adnan's voicemail So Adnan checked it at 514. So he says you know, christie, christie will tell you that she called, left a message for the defendant. So there's that Finally got through that. That was really bothering me. I'm not going to lie, it was very difficult just to get through that one sentence Anyway. So more calls were made. So the very next call occurs at 538 to Christie Myers. She's not home. Her answering machine comes on. You'll see it's a two second call. As soon as the answering machine comes on, the person comma, the defendant hangs up. So basically he's going through the cell phone log. In all of this It's one after the other just going through the logs, kind of like what we went through before. You know the just everything is a lot.
Speaker 1:Then we have young who believes that he's calling Adnan. No, believes he's calling Don, but it's actually Adnan. I mean, everybody's being called in this, this group, but nobody knows where she is. So I think that from from here down, it's pretty much all just the the call logs You guys want me to go through. I really don't want to go through the call logs. I'm not going to lie. I don't think you should. The only reason I don't wow D, don't hold back, but the only reason why is because and I hate to say this, but the testimony is going to do it too. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. I'm sorry, you guys, if it makes you feel any better. I mean, for the most part I try to stick to like what's the most important testimony, kind of like how I kind of picked and chose what I wanted to talk about in their opening statements, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, i get it. We're an hour and two minutes in and I'm still on the prosecution's case in chief opening statement. but I really I did try, you did. I attempted to make it quick.
Speaker 2:If you guys could only see your face.
Speaker 1:I feel bad. I had every intention of trying to get through the second trial today. I don't think it's happening. Should we attempt the defense opening?
Speaker 2:statement. I think we should save that for the next episode. Are you kidding? We got through one, are you kidding? No, look it, it's already an hour and three, four minutes.
Speaker 1:You guys just know that I'm arguing for you. I think they're just going to have to wait. Okay, but there's two things. One. So, since we're a few days late this time, it wasn't my fault. Yay, for once.
Speaker 2:It was mine.
Speaker 1:No, it was nobody's fault. I'm just saying it wasn't my fault.
Speaker 2:Oh, meaning you didn't post it late.
Speaker 1:Right, it wasn't like I sat there and reminded myself to post it and then went up to bed. Anyway, my point is that you guys get one today and then you get one Monday, so you don't even have to wait a whole week, so isn't?
Speaker 2:that exciting, that's so thrilling.
Speaker 1:She doesn't sound very thrilled.
Speaker 2:You get more of cat and D.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's because we're recording right after this, so she's not really that excited. but I could be wrong, You could be.
Speaker 2:I don't know, we'll see. We'll see how the next one goes, because I feel like this is going to be like a 20 chapter book.
Speaker 1:Oh no, that would be pretty quick. More like 40, 50. Not episodes.
Speaker 2:This is like killing my brain, just so you know, hey.
Speaker 1:I mean, but it's been fun, hasn't it? Oh my gosh, aren't we only on like the sixth one? I don't know, it feels like 15. I don't really know.
Speaker 2:I lost track, me too, i guess.
Speaker 1:I'll have to find out.
Speaker 2:I guess we'll have to find out.
Speaker 1:All right, well, we will see. No, we never see you guys. Oh, that's kind of sad Okay.
Speaker 2:Is it? I don't know, i don't either. Maybe Maybe Maybe they don't want to see us either? I wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, i'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 2:Bye, now Bye.