From Rage to Redemption: Forgiving the Woman Who Killed My Son | Matthew Hill

Born and raised around Kansas City’s 12th Street, Matt grew up surrounded by two completely different influences. His mother taught him how to survive the streets, while his father introduced him to church, discipline, hard work and life outside the neighborhood.

The streets eventually pulled Matt into fighting, hustling, shootouts and relationships that repeatedly placed his life in danger. However, the most devastating moment of his life came when his son, Lil Matt, was shot and killed.

Consumed by grief and rage, Matt believed revenge would eventually send him to prison. To remain present for his other children and continue fulfilling his purpose, he made the painful decision to forgive the woman responsible for his son’s death.

Matt also discusses becoming a father at 13, discovering another son 15 years after his birth, surviving betrayal, losing close friends, repairing his relationship with his father and transforming himself into an entrepreneur, mentor and community leader.

Today, Matt works in financial services, owns AJ’s Bar & Grill in downtown Kansas City and helps others recognize that success often begins with a change in mindset.

This is a testimony about grief, fatherhood, forgiveness, faith, personal responsibility and allowing God to fight the battles that anger cannot win.

“Forgiveness is not for them. It is for you.”

May his wounds become beautiful scars. We pray you’ve been Indelibly Marked.

Content notice: This episode discusses gun violence, domestic violence, drug activity, grief and the death of a child.
#IndeliblyMarked #Forgiveness #GriefJourney #Faith #truecrime

Dominique Kuykendall
https://youtube.com/@indelibleartsnetwork

https://www.instagram.com/indelible_rudy/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

I was enraged, man. I was enraged. I won't start nothing, but I gotta finish. And sometimes being enraged, people don't understand the concept of everybody can get it. I was in that I was in that place. I was in that space of everybody can get it. I don't care who or where and why. If you say something to me, it's that. I knew I was gonna go to jail. I knew I was gonna go to jail. Man, I, you know, was born and raised in Kansas City, Missouri, man. You know, like I said, my mom, um, you know, my mom and my dad was two complete different individuals. You know, uh, you know, my dad was more of a real quiet, laid-back, you know, uh working man. He worked at Colgate. My mom was, you know, the life of the party. You know, my mom was my gangster side, you know, my side where it got real, my mom taught me the survival. My mom taught me the streaks, you know, my mom and my sister, because I ain't got no brothers. Um, so just, you know, really growing up on Toy Street, man, it was a um, it was a crazy upbringing. Um, because really Toy Street based on families, man. If you ain't got no big family, hey, you gotta come on with it down there. And so uh, you know, my sister was more my brother, you know, really just growing up and just really learning um the streets. You know, my dad would give me on the weekends. So I would go to church at Kansas City Baptist Temple, which is Graceway now. And so I would get a chance to see that side. And I had friends of all ethnicities and backgrounds, and I mean, you know, white, no, no, Caucasian kids and Hispanic kids and African kids, man. And I got a chance to really get into their world and see what their world was like and hang out with them and see. Um, I had a friend named Jeremy Stobb. His dad was uh one of the top guys, he might have been the CEO of uh uh might have been uh, I can't remember. It was a printing company, it was a big company. Dude was rich. You know, he would take us out to eat and pay for everybody's everything. And I'm like, man, this ain't I ain't used to this life, you know what I mean? And, you know, so just just really going to there and just really going on church trips and and then I'm back in the hood and I see everything else, you know, from the shooting and the robbing and the fighting and this, you know, everything, man. Yeah, you know, and just really being a product of the environment. Um, you know, so just growing up on Twitch Street, man, and burning the streets. And then, you know, um, as I got older, I end up um my mom, not older, teenage years, you know, 11, 12. My mom had a move into the 30s. Um, so I was back and forth down there, you know. Once you're from down there, you can't get enough from being down there. So I moved in the 30s for years. Um, but then I ended up getting me an apartment. Um, then my sister left me down there on 10th Street. So now I'm on 10th Street and 12th Street back and forth. Um, you know, so that's really, really my upbringing, man. I I went to uh several schools, um, you know, uh middle school. I went to Northeast Middle School, went to Ray South Middle School. So I met a lot of the guys from Brighttown South out there. Um I went to Metro Tech in high school, and then I ended up uh got into some major trouble, got into a big fight, and I had to transition over to East High School, um, where they would allow me, because I was pretty good at sports, so they would allow me to keep playing sports. So instead of expelling me and kicking me out and sending me some type of alternative school, my sports saved me. Um, and I was able to go to East High School and finish that out. Um, they really gave me an option to go to center or east. I know if I went to center, I would have graduated. Nah. Nah. I definitely would have graduated at Central. I had a lot of haters, what I would say up there. Plus, it was a lot of women up there that weren't gonna let me uh graduate, man. So I graduated in '98. Um that was really my upbringing, man. I mean, no, the streets was rough. You know, you having to fight all the time, you know, having to protect yourself. And, you know, um, it was a rough upbringing, man, but I wouldn't give it up for the world. It made me who I am, you know. The fighting and the how I done seen people get shot in front of me. And, you know, um, man, I seen it all. I mean, my mama uh shot one of her boyfriends in the hood in front of everybody, man. So I seen it all, baby. I've been there. I've seen it and uh seen it all happen, man. But uh I like I said, I wouldn't change my upbringing for nothing in the world. It made me who I was. And it also gave me uh seeing my dad, who worked so hard for a company, and he was also an entrepreneur, you know, seeing him do what he did, it gave me the uh work ethic that I have, you know, to see him make that happen. Like I said, man, but I was kind of my upbringing, man. Just not really, I got to mix up a little bit of everything. I got a chance to check it all out.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Yeah, we I want to run through some of that though. Um But first, with you, with being in the hood, seeing all you see, then going, then going over to where your dad is in the more, I guess, suburb. Yes, suburbia area. Do did it feel like was it hard to adjust to that culture over there?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Absolutely. Man, when you come outside your house, I stay right in the middle of Parking Square. So the circle was right outside my door. So you come outside, that's 500 people outside. It's a party. Every time we come outside, it's a party. We playing basketball, football, boxing, we it's dice games going on. I mean, but it's everything. The girls is there to go into my daddy's house where he lived in Raytown. I come outside and ain't another black person for four miles. You know what I'm saying? So I don't got no friends. I I can't do nothing but sit here and play video games because there's nothing else to do because I'm not walking four miles and go hang out, you know what I mean, with buddy, and you know what I mean. I ain't doing that. So um I would just sit at home and play video games and, you know, it was a different life. Um wish I wish I could have adjusted to it more. I would I would be in a better place sports-wise, things like that, you know, as far as educational, because it was a 10 times better education out there, of course. Um, you know, but I didn't want to adjust to it because I was having I was having fun. So I went I went for fun instead of education. So um, yeah, yeah. My dad, he he put me in a great situation, but I couldn't really understand it because I was so used to the party going outside, and there's girls outside, it was everything out there right there, man. That was a it was a hard adjustment for me.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

And if I recall Boys in the Hood, right? It's kind of the reverse. Your mama is in the uh hood and your dad is the more yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

100%. 100%, man. And you just want to be, you want to be a part of that, man. You want to be a part of that that hood fun. It ain't no fun like that hood fun. But I'm telling you, man, it's something different, man. It is, it is, it's it's absolutely something different. So for me, I just wanted to be a part of it, man, and I was really, that was really it, man. That was really it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Did you, did you and your father get into it a lot because of how you wanted to be and how he wanted you to be?

SPEAKER_00 7:27

My dad was real non-computational. Um So I wouldn't say get into it, but he was disappointed. Yeah, you know, um being disappointed in me and a lot of stuff was uh was something that we we we went through a whole lot because he didn't want me to go back to my mama's house. He knew, like, son, this is it. You can do this here if you play the same sports over here. Like, you we got trainers out here, better schools, and I'm like, nah, you know, and I would always rebel against my dad uh because of the things my mom told me. So a lot of times we feel like we miss who your dad really is, because your mom can cloud your mind to who your dad really is, and you won't accept him for who he is because your mom is in your ears. Hey, your daddy ain't, and your daddy ain't do this. And I'm like, yeah. And my mama said, right, not knowing that what the situation and the and what it really was. I'm not seeing that. All I'm saying is my daddy ain't there like he should be. But I'm not knowing that my mama done pulled a gun on my daddy before. You know what I'm saying? To put a gun on my daddy's head, or I ain't knowing my mama done threatened my daddy before. I don't know that. All I know is my daddy ain't there. Or my mama threatened my daddy and said, if you ever do this or do this, this is gonna happen. So I kind of played my dad and my stepmom against my mama without even knowing I was doing it. You know what I mean? Just, just, hey, anytime my daddy even did something, I mean, I'm telling my mama, man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, my mama said, I ain't gotta take this. But again, it it clouded my vision of what my dad really could have been to me because all I heard was my mama's voice, because she was the main voice in my head. This happens all the time, bro. This happens all the time, and I'm going through it myself. It's kind of a deja vu. I'm going through it myself for my sons because their mama was the loudest voice because they mama wouldn't let them live with me. So since she was the loudest voice, she was able to get in their ear different than I was. So she was able to teach them some stuff that I couldn't teach them and really, you know, they still daddy's boys. They love me. But at the same time, you know, they mama's voice for real because they with mama. You see what I'm saying? So daddies get the bad in the stick there, man. But uh, but yeah, yeah, yeah. We he he was disappointed in me, man, because he knew I was a product in my environment, but that wasn't who I was. I was selling drugs as a, you know what I mean, a young man. My daddy was just, he was hearing about this, man. Your son is making this money, your son, your son. And and teachers calling my daddy, your son driving to school, and he ain't even old enough to get a license. And, you know, I had to park my car around the corner. You know what I mean? And walk around the corner to get in my car. I'd get the teacher stopped calling the police on me, you know, and my sister just left me a car. She left me a four-door white regal, man. I remember like it was yesterday, man. You know what I mean? She let me let me have a whip. I'm riding, listening to RBL uh posse, man. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Did it uh bother you to know that you were disappointing your dad at that time? At that time.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

My pops was my hero, man. So of course it bothered me. But again, my mama was in my ear, and my daddy wasn't giving me no money, right? And and I was a money guy. I want more. I'm a I'm a gorilla, man. I'm I'm different when my broker is different than somebody else. So I'm a gorilla. You feel me? And uh, you know, and it's just really that. I wanted more. My daddy wasn't, like, my daddy wouldn't let me work for him. My daddy had a restaurant. Couldn't work there. I'm like, man, pop, man, what you know, man, I can't work there. And he immediately was like, because you're my son, you're not gonna do the work that you're supposed to do. You're gonna feel privileged. And I'm like, wait a minute though, you're not even giving me a chance. Let me see. And so a lot of it was the relationship me and my daddy had, and I didn't understand why he wouldn't do that. But but that's that's you know, he's giving so many family members a chance to know to do that, and they screwed him every time. So he like, my son's gonna do me the same, you know? And and it just he didn't give me the chance because of that now. I rebelled against him for that too. And I'm like, man, you ain't even give me a chance, man. You can't tell me what to do over here, and you didn't give me a chance over there. So if you would have given me a chance, and I could see you saying that, and I didn't do what I'm supposed to do, but you gave everybody else a chance. Um it's all girls, all kind of girls from my church working there, and dudes I've been cool with working there, and dudes I went to church. I'm like, man, everybody worked there but me. So how does that work? You know? So just yeah, yeah. It it bothered me, but it yeah, but I got over it real quick, because again, you know, hey, you know, you wouldn't give it to me, so I figured it out.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah. Yes, sir. Um taking what you would, whatever you would take from church, whatever you would take from church, uh going with your father, then coming back to the hood. Sometimes some of that stuff like comes out and we don't even know it's coming out when we around the partners and stuff, and they can easily like deter you from that type of stuff. You know, like you may say something and try to get them to thinking, and they'll be like, nigga, gone with that. All the time. So, how was that for you? Like, what did you ever experience that type of stuff? All the time, man.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Um, you'd be surprised how many people don't really believe in God. Yeah. So, you know, um, I knew I had something about me I was different. I was cut from a different clock. So I've never been a follower. I'm a leader. Even when I was younger, I'm gonna be a leader no matter what. I'm the life of the party, I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna light the room up. But I mean, there have been several times that I've said, you know, why I went and I've heard a message from church, and I'm like, man, we gotta be better. Or, you know, God said this, man, you know, we ain't supposed to do this. And man, come on with all that God. You know what I mean? You know, it it just didn't go well with a lot of people where I come from. So, I mean, when you when you go to church and you get that spirit and you hear God's voice, you hear him talking to you, and then you go there, it's like it completely removes everything you've learned on a lot of levels. So I dealt with that a lot. I dealt with a lot of people who would negatively, uh they would steer me away from one kind of like school, man. You know, you you are you a nerd, you a geek, you a square. You see what I'm saying? It's the same thing, man. You would, but but but for real, all the squares and the geeks is the one that's really winning. We, the ones that was in the hood that was doing all the they dan and gone, they going to jail, they doing the, but the squares and the geeks that was getting good grades, they winning. They they got the baddest chicks.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

But they got the baddest chicks later. See, we got the baddest chicks in school, they all pregnant, everybody doing bad, everybody figured it out. You feel me? But they got the baddest chicks after. Now they living a life, you know what I'm saying? They doing their thing, bro. So, yeah, it's the same thing, bro. They they found up on it and they made me feel like um, you know, I'm I'm my daddy was brainwashing me to hear mess and all that other stuff, man. So it will stop you from wanting to know God more. It will stop you from wanting to go to church more, you know, on a lot of levels, man, because so many people so negative around you. And when you're around them every day, whether you know it or not, your circle is gonna always have some influence on you. Even though you're a leader, it's still gonna have some influence on you, regardless of the situation. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, being around it every day. So that's what it was for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

And when you were in school and stuff, did you take to the nerds and stuff like that? Even though your homeboys didn't, did you like invite? I rock with everybody.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Hey man, listen, I kick it. I hey, one thing about me, man, I the nerds was my homeboys, the white, listen, white, black, everybody. I kicked it with everybody, but some people would be intimidated to hang out with me because of what came with me, right? Uh, but I was cool with everybody, man. You know what I mean? We we yeah. I I was kind of like, I would call it a protector. I don't like bullies. I don't like bullies. You know what I'm saying? Now, if you ask somebody else, they would say I was somewhat of a bully too. In middle school and all that other stuff at school, and we was doing all the fights and stuff. But I was never a bully, man. Well what happened was, you know, I'm I never started nothing. I'm a finisher. I don't start nothing. I don't bother nobody, man. I get my bag, I stay on my little lane, but if you bother me, we're gonna go there. You know what I mean? We're gonna go there, I promise you we are. And the crazy part about it is that's how I live my life. My mama taught me, shh, well, I ain't gonna say shoot first, ask questions later, but swing first, ask questions later. So my mama taught me that. And growing up on Torch Street, I used to get my bubble up, man. Them cats was vicious down there, you know what I mean? And I wasn't no fighter. I mean, I liked the girls. I'm teddy bear mad. I ain't, hey man, I don't want to fight. You know what I'm saying? I I want to keep out of my teeth. You feel me? Hey, man, I done seen people getting killed fighting, man. Hey, that ain't my thing, baby. You feel me? I like my face to be leave my face alone, man. I don't, I don't want all that, man. So I hated fighting, but I got whooped so much that it happened. It turned me into a monster. So now, let's go. It only took that one good fight. You know, that fight with them tears coming out of you? Get to making all them noises. It took that one fight, that one good punch, knock somebody out. Okay, I can do it. Let's go. You know what I mean? So that's really what it was for me, man. Just, but I love, man, listen, I was cool with the nerves, I was cool with everybody, man. I cool with everybody. I just didn't really, my life didn't let me really hang out with them as much, but you know, we shake hands with school talk and keep going, you know, in class, you know, we kind of, you know, be cool with each other. But yeah, yes, sir. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

As far as moms, uh, and uh in being in the household with moms, what's some of the things that stuck to you most that she put on you?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

My mom was smart as hell. I'm talking about, man, it's crazy how smart my mom was, man. And my mom taught me survival. She really did, man. She taught me survival, but she also taught me, you know, um, no matter what, you know, she taught me to grind and go get it. And she always made me believe it was a better life out there for me. She said, don't be like me, go get it done. And um those are the things that I really, I really got for my mom, man. Just really survival and how to do things a certain type of way. Um I I think that was really that's my biggest takeaway is my mama, man. She she cooked. You know what I'm saying? She taught me how to get in that kitchen and make it happen. She said, if you like to eat, you like to cook. You see, I like to eat real good, you know. So I cooked real. Cook real good, man. So early. Yeah, man. So my mom gave me autumn principles, man. My mom was, and she didn't play about school. Oh my God. My mama did not play about school, bro. She'll pull up, I mean, and embarrass me in front of everybody. She didn't care. But you gonna graduate. I don't care if you do nothing else. I don't care how much money you making, I don't care what you're doing, you gonna graduate. You know what I mean? And so she stayed on me, man. She stayed on me by by by any, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have graduated without my mama. I wouldn't have, you know what I mean, without her standing on me and, you know, the discipline that she gave me. You know, at the time you hate it because you don't want to get beat up, you don't want nobody put their hands on you. You hate it, but then later you look down the line and you say, Man, I needed that. You know, or I wouldn't, I definitely wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for her doing that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah. And I I think I don't remember if you called him your stepfather or your uh your mom's boyfriend, the dude she put the gun to.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

But what was your relationship with him? Like the dude she shot, because she put the gun on my daddy too. And when she shot her boyfriend. Yeah, she shot her boyfriend, and and and uh he was like a stepfather to me, man. He was in my life for some years, man. He was a stepfather to me, but he was abusive. And so I would be in my room sometimes, and and I would hear my mama and him in there fighting. And uh, I was so young, it wasn't nothing I could do about it. I was so little, I couldn't do nothing with no grown man like that. And uh, you know, one day, like I said, I mean, with them, I heard him fighting again. And my mama said, You put your hands on me, this will be your last time. Boom. And I just heard him running down the steps. Boom, boom, boom. Running, he running down the step, boom. So she shot at him in the house, and then he kind of fell. He got up, ran out the door, she shot at him again. Boom! I'm like, man, my mama had one of them old 38s, you know what I'm saying? He got six shots, and then she hit the corner, boom, hit him twice. You know what I'm saying? He fell on him between the cars, and I'm like, that was my first time seeing somebody like that close to me really get shot. Yeah. And then it was just happened to me with my mama, boy. My mama. Didn't play. Mama was about that life, you know what I'm saying? So she, you know, I keep saying was, like, yeah, she chillin' now, but yeah, yeah. And then my dad just kind of told me, you know, when she had put a gun in his head before. You know, he was just like, you know, they had some disagreements off some stuff. And my mama put a gun to his head and said, man, said my uncle Big Mike gave her a gun, put it to my daddy's head. But my daddy didn't tell me that until I was grown, grown. You know what I mean? Where I couldn't even understand it my whole life. I'm thinking my daddy just a, bro, you a deadbeat, bro. You ain't really, and my my daddy ain't never not been in my life, so I wanna I don't wanna put that out there. He's been in my life every, you know, every every other week, and he come get me.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

This was just your thoughts then.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Yeah. Yeah. And then you you want, you want your you want, you want your your dad to do more because of your understanding. And I wanted more from my dad, but I didn't get it. Like I wanted because of my understanding. You know what I mean? But yeah, yeah, that's really, really what it was for me, you know. Yeah. Well yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Uh was that the last time y'all seen your stepdad? You said he was like your stepdad, your mom's boyfriend. Was that the last time?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I've seen him now. I've seen him be funny. I'll be laughing. Listen, ah, man, listen. His his cause his daughter, my my it's like my sister Kelly, and uh me and her, we rock. You know what I'm saying? We've been rocking forever. That's my big sister, man. And uh, you know, she ain't my real big sister, but she's my big sister. So she supported me. Yeah, you know, and me and her always. But but but uh he, you know, I see him sometimes and I just be laughing. We cool, you know what I'm saying? I ain't got no bad blood towards him. You know, I was I was a kid. I can't respect no man to put his hands on a woman. Yeah. So we'll never be friends. You know what I'm saying? I I'm cool with him, I respect him. What's up, brother? How you doing? And I just look at him, I be laughing, like, yeah, you better quit putting your hands on women, brother. You know what I'm saying? Next time you ain't gonna be so lucky, you know what I mean? So you gotta live with that for the rest of your life. So you get what you deserve. You know what I'm saying? You don't put your hands on a woman, man. This is a crazy world.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Uh being so young when that was happening, did do you feel like that messed up your mind any about relationships?

SPEAKER_00 22:52

It made me not put my hands on a woman. Yeah. I'll tell you that. I've been through some abuse, some abusive on the other side of relationships where women get so mad, you know, they'll put their hands on you sometimes. Man, better quit playing with me. Like, you know what I mean? And uh, you know, when you're a man that won't put your hand on a woman, sometimes a woman's gonna take that, you know, and run with it and and and go too far, you know. And uh, but yeah, man, it just really made me have the vision and I put my hands on a woman. And uh, you know, of course, that was really it. You know, you gotta treat women differently. And I was raised by all women, for real. You know, my dad was in my life, but it was all women that was right there every day, which was my sister, my mom. My Aunt Lisa was like my mom. Um, and so my grandmother, you know, that was my my core, you know, right there. But it was a lot of women in my life, not men, and the men that were in my life, now they really was doing their own thing. They was older than me, so they was doing their own thing. So I didn't really have no family growing up like that. I just had my homeboys that I was cool with. That was really it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

And going back to your pops, what did you feel you needed more?

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Because I heard you said you needed more. You felt like you needed more. You know, sometimes it'd be it'd be it's crazy just to hear I love you. I believe in you. We don't get that. You know what I mean? Uh it's an emotional subject, you know what I mean? Like for men, I'd be like, man, just tell him you love him, man. When last time you told your son you love him, you know? And they don't even uh it's different. Your pop's love is different than your mama love. So it's like, damn. Uh yeah, bro. Yeah, just want to hear that. I believe in you. You got this. Um yeah, it ain't nothing like that, man. So uh more, more time, more love, more uh, you know, for real, man. Uh and I'm emotional because I'm a father, and I watch my son. I wish I told him I love him more.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

But my take a break real quick.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Nah, I'm good. I'm good. My love for uh my son was like man, that hurt when you think about it, but uh my dad made me not really uh I wouldn't say cold, I wouldn't say cold, but you're a product of where you come from. So when you don't really hear certain stuff, it's hard for you to give it. So my emotions ain't really there like they should be. So when I want to tell my lady or my kid, I love you. I don't do it. Hold them emotions in. You ain't get that, so it's hard for you to give it. So uh, yeah, man, yeah. That's crazy, man. That brought me to tears just thinking about that. That's crazy. But uh, but yeah, yeah. Time, love, encouragement. Get in my corner, man. Don't knock me for who I am, rock with who I am. Don't try to enhance too many times. We try to change our kids to what we want them to be. Yeah. Instead of kids are kids and people are people because they different. Right? They different, man. And uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

That's what it was. I know where we're from, or they're just keeping me where you from. Like you, a lot of dudes don't have their father. Yeah. But the times you would see a dude with his father like active at events and stuff, would it bother you or would it like touch you in a certain type of way?

SPEAKER_00 26:45

The, the, the, the, the lightweight of being my dad, my dad being in my life, boy, had me, it got me in fights. It made a lot of people jealous of me, because they seen my daddy. You know what I mean? Oh, gotcha. So, of course, when you see that, you see a dude, we at the basketball game, um, and his dad is there, you know, it kind of makes you a little jealous, but not where I came from, because there wasn't no dads really around. So if it was 10 of us on the team, there wasn't no daddies around. I can't tell you it was one daddy from Mike Nash to all of us and and Donut, everybody that was with us, man. You know, everybody was hooping with us, Lonzo, Pooh, everybody, man, I ain't seen no daddies. I mean, it wasn't one daddy that traveled with us. Not one. We didn't have a daddy that traveled with us, that was coming to the game constantly. And sometimes it'd be 30 kids, 30, 33 teams playing. Not one daddy, bro. Not one. I'm talking about, and I'm not exaggerating. Can't none of them dudes say their daddy was around like that. Calvin was our daddy. Calvin kept us out the street. Calvin was, that's why he was such a big deal. That's why so many people poured into him and his kids and gave him whatever he needed, because Calvin was our daddy, bro. Man, there wasn't no daddies around. Wasn't nobody rocking with us when we was doing all that, man. Nobody. So um, yeah, yeah. I I got more jealousy from the little bit of my daddy being around. You know what I mean? Because my daddy did, like, you know, Nintendo's and Sagas, and I had all that. I had all that. You know what I'm saying? So Cats didn't like that. You know, they, ah, you think you better not? No, bro, can I borrow your people have to borrow no milk. Hey, bro, you can't borrow my game system, bro. You can't borrow my double dribble, you know. And so what would happen was down there, people would borrow your stuff, but you'll never see it again. You know, you'll never see it again. So me borrowing is basically saying, let me rob you without robbing you. You know, a lot of times down there, and you had a couple people that you was cool with that you can really that you can swap games with or whatever, do stuff like that. But for the most part, nah. Let me borrow it, is basically saying you ain't getting that back, hom. So I learned that real quick. Because I was the nice kid. I was the, yeah, go ahead, bro. I ain't I can't play 10 games at once. Go ahead. And, you know, one, two games. Hey, boy, let me get the game back. Nah, man, I don't know where it's at. I gotta fight. No, and it ain't one fight. You gotta keep fighting. Gotta keep fighting. Because you go home, I remember a couple times I went home crying to my mama. Two more game. Yeah, okay. What you gonna do? What? You gonna let him take it? You know what I mean? Cause only so much, bro. It's embarrassing to have your mama come and knock on the door. You know what I'm saying? Saying, tell your son to get my game back. You know what I'm saying? So that's embarrassing. So now they start talking. So what you gonna do? You're gonna keep getting embarrassed at some point. You gotta put them hands up, you know? And so, but but at the same time, you live and you learn, and you could let people borrow your games too. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Do you remember that first, the first time it flipped for you? Because you said at first you wasn't fighting and all of that stuff, and then you had to. Like, do you remember that first situation where it turned out?

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Oh. Like it was yesterday. I was like 12. What happened? I was like 12. Man, I was coming out the corner store. We was up at Speedies on 10th Street. Yeah. And I was walking out the store, and uh, dude hit me in my face so hard for no reason. Boom! My head hit the wall. I'm like, man. You know what I'm saying? Like I was a letter, and he was probably 15. And you ain't know him at all? Just know him from the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? And I don't really know him, just seeing him around. And uh, bro, dude hit me so hard. I don't wish that punch on nobody. I couldn't see nothing. Bro, I it felt like it was blood in my eyes. And uh, because my head hit the wall too. So I'm sitting trying to figure out, man, I'm, you know, I'm I'm I don't, you know, I don't know what to do in that situation. Do I ball up? Do I curl up? Do I try to swing and just start? I don't know. So when he hit me, when I when I finally came to two, you know what I'm saying, he kind of just walked off. Didn't tell me why, nothing. I never knew why. And I seen him at Jubilees on 27, two weeks later. He came out of Jubilees. Bro, I hit this dude with the hardest punch I ever hit him in my life. I'm talking about one hitter quitter, slapping. And so I'm like, oh shit, I mean, like, hold on, you feel me? One hitter quitter that was different. You know what I mean? Like, so it just really, it really just kind of, okay, you know, and then I had me a couple other little touch-ups, and it was, it was quick. Like, man, hold on, boy, these hands work, you know what I mean? So I start, you know, now you start to feel yourself. You you boxing in the wind, and now we shadow boxing, we really boxing, and I'm we feeling ourselves, man. And like I said, man, it's a lot of boxing going on down there. It's it was some knockout artists down there, bro. You done on no parts of down there. I'm talking about the Carusos that passed away, the Sharkasses, boy, it's a lot of cats down there that really got hands, bro, and you really gotta be ready. You know what I'm saying, down there, bro. And them cats do that for a living. They just love to fight. Keith Jones honor from down there. Hey, man. Hey, hey, you gotta be ready for war. So, man, I, you know, but I was smart enough, I'm gonna put it to you like this. I I had hands, but I was smart enough to dodge it before it happened. You know what I'm saying? And what I'm saying by that is I don't want to fight if I don't gotta fight. Got you. Now I'm gonna ask, I'm gonna see what it's about, you know, and then go there. I was never the high head that said, man, let's go kill, let's go do this, let's go fight. I was never him. I was the person that always gonna let, oh, let's see what it really is first. Because sometimes you fight, and a lot of people are dead now over somebody else's mess, right? You know, you my homeboy, you don't like him, or you don't like him. You want me not to like him just because you don't like him. Not knowing that you messed with his baby mama. You did some snake stuff, right? I don't know that though. I don't know you you did some snake moves. That's why a lot of cats right now say, oh, Matt ain't, well, Matt, don't go for that. I ain't goofy. I'm not losing, because the the cat that always gets killed is the one that ain't got nothing to do with nothing. You out here living your life doing what you're doing, because I'm in the car with you, and we're doing some, you done did some goofy instead of me telling you, hey man, that was wrong what you did, bro. Why is you over there? You know that's that man's wife. You know that's that man. Or why did you do that, bro? So then you done put your hands on this man's sister. Right? I I done had a I had a friend that I cut off because he put his hands on this, this, just I can't say it's well-known killer in Kansas. Huh? You said what? No, I just said yeah, yeah. Put his hands on the sister. And I'm talking about, we was riding together every day. And I'm talking about not even a week later after he did it, he was gone. And I was supposed to be in the car with him where he was going. And I knew I would have been dead because they shot that car a hundred times. You see what I'm saying? So I was I'm always depressing to say, wait a minute, bro. Make it make sense first. I ain't gonna just say let's go. I'm gonna say, make it make sense. Help me understand what's going on, and then we can move like that. You know what I'm saying? So I was always, I mean, I dodge, man. I'm, you know, I ain't never been the, I don't play the tough guy. I ain't him. You know what I'm saying? But Cats, cats think I am, you know, because I done, I done put my, I done did my work, but I ain't him, bro. I'm chilling. I don't like fighting, but I love life. I love love. You know what I'm saying? I love, I love family. I'm him, I'm family. Let's let's rock, bro. I'm I'm I'm your best friend. I don't want to be, bro. I done, I done hired dudes that we done had full-blown shootouts. Fights, shootouts, all of that. I done hired them guys and they work for me. You see what I'm saying? That's the kind of dude I am. I don't hold grudges, I don't, I don't do none of that, bro. I'm I'm not, I'm I'm chilling, man. Life is life is good, man. When you wouldn't really understand life, forgiveness is the key. You know? And then understanding, you know, people are upset about something else that don't got nothing to do with you. A lot of cats is upset because they broke. So they mad because they wives is giving them hell and or, you know, in the road rage, they flying somewhere and they just found out they they they they brother got killed or shot and they running somewhere, you cut them off and they jump out and y'all arguing, he shoots you. Not because he wanted to shoot you, but he shot you because you're already a rage anyway. And we not understand it. Sometimes it's okay to stand down. Yeah. It's okay to stand down. Man, that's cool. Let me, my man, obviously, you got something going on in your life that you need to go handle, right? And so we get into fights, we get into shootouts and all kinds of stuff over something that we just clearly didn't understand, right? Not because we needed to. So my survival has been different. No, I I could have been dead several times, but because I understood differently, and my dad got a forgiveness ministry, man, and the ministry was like everything. Just understand it. Like, hey, I had to forget a young lady to kill my son. I had to forgive her. Because if I didn't, I I couldn't, I you can't function. When you hold on to pain, when you hold on to anger or frustration, man, you can't function correctly every day, man. You can't function correctly every day. It ain't possible. You know what I'm saying? Because you're gonna be so mad, you're only thinking about going to get somebody back and hurt somebody that you can't function the way you need to function, bro. So I had to let that go. Certain stuff you gotta let go. People that done wronged me, people done did some foul stuff to me, you know, you gotta let that go, man, because you're gonna be, you're gonna live a painful life worrying about all the wrong people do to you, because people are gonna be people are gonna be people, man. People are gonna be people. People are meant to hurt you and leave you. And if you don't understand that, that's a problem. People are meant to hurt you and leave you, man. And so for me, it was something that I had to learn. And it's been a key to my survival when I understand people are meant to hurt you and leave you. That's how it works, right? And we we we spend our life trying to give from people what we give to people, but it don't happen, I don't think. You ain't, I'm not you. You ain't me. So what you what you feel ain't what I feel. What you like ain't what I like. You understand what I'm saying? And so that was the thing for me. Yeah. Just learning it, man. Everybody different. You can't go on like expecting people to give to you what you give to people. So you gotta give with a great heart and the rest. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

I want to touch on what was the scariest situation where you almost lost your life. Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

I sure, I sure wish I could say names, but I'm not sure. No, no, no, no. I can't. But I it's it was a couple up, man. I I remember I was working at uh I was working at Taco Bell on 31st and Van Brug. Oh, you did a regular job too? Yeah, you hear me? Oh man, I had to. I had a regular job when I was 14, 15 years old. You feel me? But I even in them jobs I hustled. Yeah, that's true. You know what I'm saying? But uh I came out of Taco Bell, man, and it was me and my homeboy Edward Bridge. And Ever had a clean white Chevy on 20 inch algo uh uh bead laces. And I had a clean candy green tea top colors. No, uh, on backs. I mean, I'm talking about, man, we had the spot lit down there. Working that type of. Oh man, the Taco Bell, because we definitely was getting it in down there. You can come down there and get some tacos and some other stuff too at the same time. So we was getting it in down there, man. It was crazy. But when I say we had the block lit, but I wasn't from over there in that area. I'm from 12. So the cats on the east side and in the 30s, they seeing this. They seeing they girls and all that coming up Taco Bell, and I got the block pop, and I got 10, 15 cars out there on dates. This is a car show out there. They seeing this. Like, hey, well, who is this dude? You know what I mean? And so me being from down there, I ain't got no whole bunch of cats from the 30s. I got some some fam over there, whatever, you know. And uh, you know, I had some cousins that was over there, that was some big names over there. My big cousin Nodi used to, you know, he used to make sure I was cool and straight on a lot of stuff. But so yeah, I'm coming out of there, and it's a funny story, man. I had my my gun was in the thing, and uh, I'm just thinking it's quiet out there. Ain't nobody out there. It's a, it's a, it's three o'clock in the morning. So I'm thinking I'm just about to run in time in the gas station, pay for my gas, come on back out. I'm cool. So I run in there real quick. I'm coming out, nigga here from the from behind the building. Give me the keys. I'm like, man, hold on, man. That motherfucker, it's running, the car running. And the dude got a little closer to me. And I'm like, bro, the car running, bro. I don't do what you gotta do. I don't want to die with no car, you know? And he got a, he got even my, I can't do nothing. I'm helpless. My gun in there. So he got a little closer. I'm like, man, I just kind of, you know, swung at the gun, took off. You know what I'm saying? Boom. And he starts shooting at me. But we right down the street from the 27th Street Police Station. So police are down the street all day, every day. So it just so happens, bro, God was on my side. Police was right there. When he starts shooting, police was right there. Coming up the street. Boom. When they pulled up on him, you know what I'm saying, drew down on him or whatever. And I happened to know the cat, but I didn't know the cat. Yeah. You know, from what I was, what I was being told, he was on wet real bad. You know what I'm saying? So that was a crazy life-changing situation for me. Cause I'm like, man, now, man, they say it's better be caught with the without. You know what I'm saying? Like, you changed my life on that, bro. So now you ain't gonna never, you know what I'm saying, put me in that situation no more. So two things I do is I never put myself in situations. And I try to, you know, I was always taught, don't go nowhere, you need a gun. So I try to stay away from certain places, you know, for that reason, because I know me now. Because after that happened to me, it turned me into a monster. I didn't care no more. You know, life became different after that happened for me. You know what I mean? So I knew that no matter how good of a guy you was, they'll still kill you. Right? And no matter how much you helped people and gave people life, money, they'll still kill you. You know what I mean? So, yeah, that that little situation changed my life. That was my first major brush with death. Yeah. You know, seeing my eyes fly, no, I'm I'm seeing bulls, man. This dude was shooting at me, man. Like, for bro, the car was right there, the car was running. You know what I'm saying? So, so it my my other question was, is this deeper? You know what I'm saying? Is it was it about the car? Was this deeper? You know? And again, me and Dude never had no runners before. You know what I'm saying? We never had no runners before. And uh so for that to happen, it was crazy. And I don't even know what happened to Dude. Like, I never went to court, you know, um, from from the investigations, he disappeared right after that happened. So never seen him, never nothing. I don't know what happened to Dude. You know what I'm saying? And uh I know he was he was gone. Cash told me he was locked up for a lot of years, you know what I mean? But it I didn't, it wasn't me. It hadn't do with me. You know what I'm saying? I didn't go to no court telling him or nothing. I didn't have to. Because, no, I I guess he maybe had some other stuff going on and the police picked it up, but they never came, got me, asked me nothing, nothing. Dude was gone for years. So from what I'm being told he out now, I'm sure I run into him every or so. But uh, that's how that worked, bro.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

To go from the teddy bear that everybody knew you from for, and then something like that happen and switch you up, did people around you notice the change in you?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Absolutely. Because I didn't care no more. You know what I mean? I didn't care when it came to being teddy bear not Matt. I used to love everybody. And after you, after somebody trying to kill you and take your life, oh man, oh, you know, that's different. Like my search my circle became real short. You know, and and again, I know everybody. We can't go nowhere without people knowing Matt. I don't care where we go. We be man, we be going out of town. My kids be like, man, daddy, how do you know these people? Well, you know, business, you know, and and stuff like that. But um I can't my I cut a lot of people off. That I was real close to because I started to look at people for who they was. It made me look at people differently. If you can rob and take from people, I don't wanna be no parts of you. I don't wanna have nothing to do with you. You still my homeboy, I got love for you, but I ain't gonna glorify you taking from somebody. I don't wanna be, I don't wanna be, no, because I know the cats that a lot of cats got killed from other cats. So I'm like, man, I don't even want to be associated. So I cut my, I cut my ties with a lot of cats, man. The cats that was doing stuff that I couldn't see myself doing or being around. So it changed my life, man. Hey, man, when I say, and it made me evil. Made me evil, man, where I didn't really care, you know what I'm saying, about little stuff. But like I said, I still, I never still started something. Yeah. You know, can't nobody say, Matt, started nothing. Because I ain't never started nothing, you know, but I'ma finish it. And some of the people, because of my principals, got away with some stuff that they shouldn't have, you know, and my dad would pray with me and pray with me, and my mama said, No, I don't want you to go to jail. And my kids became more important than anything to me. Revenge is something that we live off of. But we don't understand our kids is more important than anything. So me coming home to my daughters and my sons was more important than me taking your life. Yeah. Even though I should have. But see, sometimes God got a shield over you. God said, I pulled you through that. He didn't hit you. Every bullet can come your way. But didn't one hit you? And he was like right here, bro. Like right here. He said, Let me fight your battles for you. And I'm like, man, that's crazy. You see what I'm saying? Like, anybody that's ever wronged me, bro, 90% of them are dead and gone or they locked up. Anybody. I'm talking about, bro, when I say I got some type of favor, it's different. And I and I believe in that, let God fight your battles. You see what I'm saying? Like, no, it just been that. It's been that way. So after I felt that, he said, revenge is mine. So I'm like, man, that's crazy. Let me step back and let him do his thing. Let him do his thing, man. Let me get out the way. Because we was taught revenge is ours.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

But all of them cats was in jail 15, 20, 30 years. And you kill who? Somebody that ain't doing nothing in life. No way. They not doing nothing, bro. They not. And so all the work that I put in, I'm going to give that up, and my kids is going to live a certain type of way because this dude was smoking wet and made a mistake. Nah, I ain't going to do that. Now, you know. I I made some mistakes, you know, in my life. I ain't going to say I didn't do nothing. You know, but what I am, I'm not in that situation, but I'm saying, but but I ain't going to say I didn't do nothing. But I'm not, I'm not, I'm not perfect either. You know, I'm not perfect, but I did learn. I started letting God fight my battles, bro. I I did. You know, now again, I ain't gonna start nothing. You know, but if you bring it, I'm gonna protect myself, I'm gonna do what I gotta do. But I ain't gonna never go looking for no trouble. I ain't gonna never go looking for, man, I ain't never been that guy. You know what I'm saying? So to me, cat's too busy playing gangster. They don't understand. That ain't it. Gangsta's making it home to your family every night. Gangsta's being a father to your kids. Gangsta is being a real husband to your wife if you got one. Gangsta is that. Paying your bills, being a stand-up guy, that's gangster. When you in your 30s and 40s, that's gangster. Kids' stuff is kids' stuff. But when you when you become a grown man, that's where your gangster really at. You know what I mean? For me, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

And when you got in your first shootout, was it something you embraced or was it something you looked at like, I can't believe I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

It wasn't even my shootout. I was shooting my own boy. I was there. And and when it goes down, it goes down. You can't say, you know, um, that's why I had to change my circle. Because I'm loyal to the soil. And if you funkin', I'm funking. Yeah. Right? And I had to change my mindset on that. Because I that's like I said, I started to say, man, why are you funking? You do rob people, right? So I'm I'm gonna be a fool to you keep running around here robbing all these people, and I'm shooting and doing all this crazy stuff for you, and you out here, and I know you're doing wrong. I know you break into these people's houses and holding people high. I know, so I would be foolish, and that's why I had to, but but man, I mean, my first major shootout, uh, you know, it wasn't my fault. They were shooting my hallboy, and we was really kind of parking like pimping. You know how they go? And they and they pulled up on him, you know, because of some stuff that he did. And they, I'm talking about, them boys had some different artillery. I'm talking about I they had some guns I never seen in my life. And I'm talking about tore some stuff up. But, you know, like I said, you can have all the big guns in the world if you ain't lethal with it, you don't know what you're doing. Yeah. You can have a 22 and win a gunfight, you know what I mean? So just, just, just after you got in it, man, I just I sit there like, man, like, you know, my homeboy got shot twice, you know. Um, they ain't hit me. But they was, they wasn't really, they was really going after him for real. But, you know, just being a part of that, man, is it's been, it was, it was, it was, it was some different stuff, man. But I I've had all of those situations that change my life to make me change my circle and the people that I was running with and hanging with, man, because that wasn't who I was. I never was him. That ain't who I was. And again, being a product of your environment, you're gonna rock with people because that's where you come from. That ain't who I am, man. I'm I'm man, listen, I'm a child of God, bro. I am. And uh my father, my my mom, church. I don't care how gangster she was, church, you feel me? And I come from a long line of singers. All my aunties or big name singers in church, um, and doing their thing, all my aunties was was tearing it up, bro, on both sides, on my daddy's side and my mama's side. I'm like, man, that's crazy. Really, you know, really more on my daddy's side. You know what I mean? But, you know, my mom sung in church, so you know, I came from that. You know? So I was raised right, bro. My grandma raised me right, man. I was raised right. Just them streets get a hold of you. You'd be surprised how many people that don't want to do nothing, but they don't want nothing to do with the streets. But the streets want everything to do with them. And that's why I do what I do now. That's why I do what I do now. That's the big reason why I do what I do now. Because I want to be the voice to say, bro, we can do it. You know, ain't gotta, so many people just need the door open, right? And it ain't that they ain't smart enough. It ain't they, they just need you to open the door and let you run through the door, you know, and understand that you can make it. They need a mentor. They need somebody that can just really take them by the hand and say, come here, I got you. I know, I know what you're going through. I know your pain. I know your passion. I got you. The door open, but you gotta run through it, you know. So a lot of people won't. That's why I do what I do now. Like Mike said in his interview, man, Mike, Mike ain't never been to no beach before. I took, I took Mike out of town. Mike ain't never, he ain't never experienced Florida's and, you know, waters. Man, he ain't never experienced nothing like that. He ain't never seen the Miami's and I ain't never experienced that. But him being with me, it's giving him a different look, outlook on life. And bro, it's a different world, I think. You'd be surprised how many people ain't never been out of Kansas City. They ain't never been. They ain't never been. My mom and my daddy never took me out. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Yeah. I think I wasn't like, I was probably like 28 when I first got. Well, Topeka don't count. But you know what I'm saying? But you well, I took a trip to Texas. Think I was around that age. Yeah. Coming, you know, like you got your old dogs who want to show the tape and all of that. How did it make you feel? Because we know in the hood, they gonna hear about it. When they'll come back and hear the stories of what you did and they try to root you on for it, but you don't feel like you should be doing that anyway. So how were you feeling in those moments where they would come and try to make it make you, they're giving you a badge for what you did, trying to hooray you for out there doing crazy stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

He he loved every minute of. Man, for like ramball. For me, uh, I was always some smart guy. It scared me. Because when people know and you doing that, where get back to them cats that was shooting, and them cats that was shooting. Some real cats. You see what I'm saying? And I'm I'm I'm out there. You know, I'm every Sunday at the park, I'm I'm on prospect every week. I'm I'm out there. Let's ride. I'm I'm in I'm public, I'm in the public eyes, I'm in Taco Bell, I'm a sitting duck.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

He ain't. So for me, it did more scare me than anything. Because when people find out what you was a part of, right, um, that can come back on you in a major way. Yeah. So again, man, I I never, I've never wanted that clout. I always, the clout that I wanted wasn't a good clout, but I I wanted to be the cat that's, you know, got that bread. You know what I'm saying? Hey, that's it, bro. I get to the bag, and then, you know, I kept chicks around me, you know what I'm saying? So talk to me about some money and some chicks, bro. Don't talk to me about none of that other stuff, you know, and and and let's talk about the whip. Let's talk about that's why I ran with cats with money. I didn't like running with cats. If he was broke, I don't like running with you. What we gonna do together?

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

I gotta pay for everything, right? So associate me with that, man. But it's it's it's not a fun. He he loved it. He loved every minute. I'm like, yeah, we are. I'm like, bro, I don't know what y'all talking about. I had nothing to do with nothing. Boy, we seen you. You didn't seen me doing nothing. So, hey, kill that, right? Don't even, don't even be spreading that. Take that off my name, you know. I didn't do none of that. I was sitting over there in a cut, bro. Man, you know, so I'm I'm I'm not a stupid dude. I ain't want I hope nothing going back to them dudes saying mad did nothing. Because I don't know who, you know, you don't know who got hit and then. You feel me? You don't know who, you don't know. You see what I'm saying? So now you out here running your mouth and y'all doing all this talking, we don't know who. And then that comes right back on you. So it's like, you know, but but man, when I say my growth, it was it was phenomenal, bro. My growth just, man, it was phenomenal, bro. I'm I'm I thank God every day for who I am today, you know, from all the stuff that I've been through and and all this crazy stuff, man. And I never had no crazy record or none of that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

We we talk about a lot of the times we we go outside and you feel like it's love out there from what they present, you know, until you have that situation where one of your home, because you said like you ain't like being around broke people at all. But there were broke people around in the hood. So that brings on snakes or people who don't have as much as you. They may not be broke, but they don't have as much as you, and they don't, they don't like that, they like that girl that you got, and they mad that you got her. They might not tell you, but they mad. So, what did your first snake situation look like? Or the snake situation that turned you?

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Man, me and my kids' mother, uh, we was living in Twin Elms for a minute. And uh we was kind of, we was doing our thing at Twin Elms. And uh I didn't sell the stuff that I started selling at Twin Elms until I got over there. Uh I met her cousin over there who was making all kind of money, and he was like a big name in the city, everybody knew him. I met him and I was really dealing with the with the green. She kind of plugged me with him because like every day I come in the building, they would be like, hey man, you you look like you got it. I'm like, no, I don't. I don't got what you do. You know what I'm saying? I ain't messing with that. I'm scared. Because I was scared of jail time, bro. I wasn't messing with that. So uh one day, one of my kids' mama, she was kind of rocking with it a little bit. One of her old little people she dealt with just like boom. So we started doing it. You know what I'm saying? It was a lot of money in it for one day. I lost my mind. I was like, man, I made like four or five grand. And one day, I said, what? Wait a minute. You don't do that with this? Hold up, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So I lost my mind, bro. I I I it wasn't even real to me. I ain't gonna lie, man, I sit on my couch and I and I sit there for like 30 minutes. TV was off, no, no, no, nothing. I I thought I was tripping. I I'm like, this can't be real that you can make this kind of money, you know, just doing that. Four or five thousand. So I'm sold. I was in the game. After that, I was in the game, and then uh we had let her nephew come and live with us. And uh I'm feeding little dude, you know, and when I would be gone, like this is like my little brother. Like, he not, he's like my son, bro. He was a lot younger than me. So he was like my son, and I'm feeding him, I'm giving him whatever, you know. Hey, bro, when I'm gone, you eat, you eat, bro, he eating. I come, he made a thousand dollars. You know what I mean? Like, he was eating. And uh one day I came home and I just freshly re-upped. And he knew where all my stuff was at. All my money, all my stuff was gone. Here's the crazy part. He locked the door. He did it real clean. Like, just walked in, took everything, and walked the door, he left the door, locked the door back, man. I said, wow. I said, man, you know, so I knew it was him. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't even a question of now if it was him. But that was my first major, you know, snake situation. Um, but I've had several since then. But but that was my first major one that hurt me in a major way, man. And uh I done had cousins, you know, try to know pull some little snake stuff. And I done had, man, listen, homeboys that I I gave packs too. Cats that I really I done fought with, did whatever, took care of their families when they was locked up, got out, because I done give them a million dollars. And I'm like, man, hold on, bro. You know what I mean? That ain't my job. I done put you in there, you know what I mean? And you know, but but cats really get in their feelings, bro, because they count your pockets and they see how good you're doing, and you have certain friends that you didn't have before, uh when everything really kind of hits a fan like you do. You know what I mean? So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

What was the thing that hurt your feelings the most dealing with the street?

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I would say my little cousin. My little cousin, man. Um, losing lives, of course, yeah, is the worst. Um I've been to, I know we had one year, like I even with Mike, I was like, Mike, man, you gotta quit posting all these obituaries, man. Come on, bro. Like, your pain is draining. Like, and bro, when I say Mike can post an obituary for every day of the week for a year straight, because we lost so many people. We from Torch Street. We got Torch Street Ant History Street, you know, it's thousands of people, man. We we grew up with thousands of people, not to mention people we went to school with and all that other stuff. So, you know, you could you could find yourself posting obituary every year. Um we lost a lot of people, but my little cousin, man, um he was working for me. He was living in my house, driving all my cars. And I'm talking about kicking it, driving. I'm talking about like it was his. He didn't even tell girls. I didn't care about that. Go ahead. You know what I'm saying? And so uh, you know, he he was over this girl's houses, and you know, one of the girls liked me, like on a whole nother level. Like she was like obsessed with me. And he was just over there, like, yeah, I'm about to take this from him, and I'm gonna take that, and I'm gonna rob him, and I'm setting this up, and I'm setting that up. He just blowing on me. And um, when I say this is my little cousin, because it's my favorite, I would have died for this little dude. You know what I'm saying? Like, just blowing on me. And so she calls me, speaker. I'm hearing all of this. And my other cousin was over there with him. So my cousin that was over there with him, I hear him, like, bro, you tripping. Like, I mean, Matt, Matt, no, he he had my back. He was, you know, but what upset me and what hurt me is even though he had my back, he didn't come to me and tell me that he was saying that. So I lost two of my closest cousins because of that. You know what I mean? And it was, it hurt, bro. Like, come on, bro. Like, so when he when he got done blowing on me to the chick, you know, she called me. No, I'm I'm I'm I'm over there hurt. Like, man, I'm I want to come over there. And she was like, come on, send me the address. So, but as I'm going over there, I got a feeling I'm talking to God. Man, don't you do nothing stupid. Just just know that you seen him walk out. You know what I mean? And the rest was the rest. But I had already heard enough on the phone anyway. Like I knew his voice, but then I seen him walk out. And I pulled off. I let him see my car. You know what I'm saying? I let them see me, pull off so they could see me, you know. And uh I pulled off, man, and you know, when when he came back, I had somebody come take all the stuff out of my house, you know. And uh when he came back, he was like, man, what's up, Cub? I'm like, man, you know, I I give my kids, you know what I'm saying? I took all my kids from everything. But that was the thing that hurt the worst. Yeah, you know, because that's a different backstabbing. Like he was working for me. I put money in his pocket, he drove my cars. I'm like, I love dude. Like to this day, I ain't got no words for him. He, though, he hurt too. He keeps, you know, I ain't got no words for you, bro. You know what I'm saying? People mess up with million-dollar relationships for moments. You know what I'm saying? You know, so yeah, that's the one that hurt the most.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

How old were you when you dealt with your first loss in the street, as far as a human that you that you were close to? My first loss in the streets?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

Yeah. Or just the hood. Yeah. 19, 1920, you know, um, 1920. I took my first loss when I was 1920. Other than that, it was smooth selling. It was. It was smooth selling. I remember I was a manager down at uh McDonald's down the street on Prospect when they first opened it. And I have 20 cats waiting on me to get off just to play dice, shoot dice. They wouldn't shoot dice for nobody else. They was waiting on me. You know what I'm saying? Because I was busting games up, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, so it was smooth selling. I was hustling. I would bring two, three bags of McDonald's hamburgers and sell them, you know what I'm saying? And then I hit the block, we shoot dice. So I'm getting money both ways, you know what I'm saying? So I was getting money on the on the on the other side. Then I had my check. Then I was getting money selling hamburgers for McDonald's. Hey, man, so we we we was gambling, gambling, man. So yeah, yeah. But that's why I took my first loss, man. I was like 1920, you know, and uh, you know, sometimes I ain't never been robbed before. Good. No, I've been attempted, but that was my robbery where he took that. But other than that, you know, just got some bad, some bad stuff, you know, where you felt like, man, you know, and then uh that's my first loss. Just getting some bad work, you know, when I was younger, 1920. But other than that, bro, I ain't I've been blessed, but I ain't I shouldn't be saying blessed when we talk about what we talk about. But I ain't took no, I ain't I ain't took no major losses like that for real, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

So to be clear, I was talking about like death, like losing somebody uh in the street, like one of your closer homeboys and stuff like that. Like how was you? I'm gonna be honest, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Um homeboy Don. Don was my guy. And uh but Don was in the streets heavy. Yeah. You know, um losing Don, me and Tubbs. It was me, Tubbs, Don. And uh we were all like that, man. Um, like I said, I grew up on 12th Street, but I done was it it it's weird because Mike kind of brought it up in his interview talking about the 12th Street, 10th Street phone. Um, I I didn't I don't see a difference. I think it's north. It's north side. I don't see a difference. I don't care what nobody says. I don't, you know, um at one point I think. Everything was just North Pole, Torstreak, whatever. I didn't, I didn't I didn't see the difference. I still don't. You know what I mean? People ask me, you hang with them cats? I'm like, man, I'm gonna hang with everybody. That's y'all think. I grew up with everybody, so I got love for everybody. So that's what it was for me. But uh Don, man, um, he was he was he was on 31st, man, at uh at uh Happy Folks, and then they kill me. And and Tubbs, which was my brother, which me and him had an RB album coming out. Oh, you sang too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Me and him had an RB album. I got a rap album out too. I never put it out a rap mix type. It was dope, though. I I did a lot of shows, had fun, but I never took the stuff seriously, man. It was fun for me, you know. But I had an RB album coming out with him. We got a lot of songs in rotation right now. We still got a lot of DJs playing our stuff, you know what I'm saying? A lot of my regular self-solos stuff or whatever, but he sung at his funeral, and he got killed the next week. So it was like, this can't be real, you know. Um, but that was that was probably what hit me the most, man. It was hard because, you know, Tubbs are really changing his life. He's a family guy. He loves his kids, he loves his family. Leaves changed his life, man. But but when I say, bro, so much death, I'm immune to it now. Yeah. Like, I'm immune to it, bro. Like I, you know, I I go to funerals and be like, another funeral. You know, and and it's like, it's crazy, but you know, that's that's that's how it's been. That's how that's how life's been. Another funeral, man. We man, we yeah. But that's that was the one that hurt me in a major way. Um, because, you know, both of them was was trying to change. I don't know to what extent. Um from what I heard about Don. I don't know how true it was, but both of them was changing, man. He was going to church. Tubbs was singing in church. You know what I'm saying? He was super involved in church every Sunday. And it wasn't related. It wasn't related. Tubbs was doing something on uh, from what I was told. He was doing something on Facebook, selling some Facebook stuff on Facebook Marketplace, and Caucasian gentlemen, you know, wanted what he had, jumped in a car, you know, whatever he was selling from the Facebook marketplace and trying to rob him and shot him. Awesome Facebook Marketplace stuff, man. And they called him me in jail because it was on, it was on the news. But no, what whatever Don had some wanted was completely different. So to be at his funeral and then he singing at his funeral then a week later, not even a funeral, it was six days up. So it's unrelated. Unrelated, bro. Unrelated. So that was probably the biggest loss that I took because it happened back to back. You know, outside of my family, then was my family. You know what I mean? So even though I didn't rock with them every day, they worked for me. I got them jobs, I kept people off the street. Bro I'm gave thousands of criminals, you know what I mean? Cats fresh out of jail jobs, whatever, just trying to help them to keep their head above water because job opportunities didn't always there for felons. So uh been able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

How old were you when you had your first child? 13, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

Oh. Yeah. I was 13, bro. My son.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

Yeah, I was 13. You definitely was still doing what you was doing in the streets. So the the what about your second child, how was you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

I was 19. I never knew about my son, bro. I didn't meet my son since he was 15. Yeah, I didn't know about him. It was my first time actually penetrating something. You know, we played how and go get it and all that other stuff, but it was my first time actually penetrating something. And so uh, yeah, his his mama, his mama had uh one of them new houses up there on Brooklyn, on 12th and Brooklyn. So if you go up that wheel, yeah. So you go up that how 12th and Brooklyn right there, we had a skipping party, and let's just say one thing led to another. And um, you know, we never talked after that. We never talked. We never had a conversation. She disappeared, I disappeared. And uh come to find out, people were telling me 10, 15 years after, man, you remember a girl we went to school and she got a son look just like you. I'm like, what? Wait a minute, who? And so they told me, you know, wasn't no internet back then, man. There wasn't no Facebook or when, you know, finding nobody, man. And, you know, Black Planet didn't come out until, you know, a certain year, you know, whatever. So it was really that. And uh I seen her when he was 15. And then uh it was a lot of mess that went with that, but the rest is history. You know what I'm saying? It's my guy now, me and him super close. I just spent Father's Day with him and his son. So he gave me my first actual grandson, but I got a lot of grandkids. I got four grandkids, man. I love all my kids, man. My kids is everything, man. They give me life. But he, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

I mean, he was 15 by the time you met him. So how long did it take y'all to actually gain a relationship? By the way. Okay. So it wasn't no other dude in his life.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

But he was a he was a garbage. He was he was garbage. I you know, I I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he had to know that my son wasn't his, because he don't look nothing like him or nothing like her. He looked like me. He looked just like me. So I would like to say maybe something deep down inside of him said that this ain't my son. You know, uh, but dude was garbage, man. He treated my son like garbage, man. And I, you know, I hate that my son had to be a part of that. You know, I don't know. I've been trying to, well, let's say I'll forgive him, man. Let me not say that. I'll forgive him some things that's happened, but yeah, he treated my son like crap. His mama and daddy raised my son. He didn't even raise my son. So the grandparents raised my son. She didn't even have as much in the upbringing as my son. You know, of course, she was there. She was a teacher, so she was there in his life, but he was raised by his grandparents or whatever. So it's crazy. I ran to McDonald's right around the corner on Hickman Mills for years. And he was coming around, and that was his spot. And I never knew. Looking me, I'm looking my son dead in the face. Never knew. But you you you recalled seeing him at the uh okay. Nah, I just would know, like, you know, I was in the front all the time and I talked to everybody that came in there and uh didn't recall. Nah, because he was he was so small at the time. Yeah. When I when I was doing that, he might have been nine or ten, you know what I'm saying, when I was running that. So he was coming around there a lot, you know what I'm saying? But nah, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

And he understood right off that you didn't know. Yeah, but he he didn't understand.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

Feel what I'm saying? He understood, but he didn't understand. So the understanding of it is I know that you didn't do this, but at the same time, his mom in his ear. See what I'm saying? So his mom in his ear, he's gonna make me accept some of that responsibility. Even though I didn't. He had, he, he, he, he held grudges against me for years. We just had another, we just recently had another talk about it. Like, son, if this was your situation, how would you? And so we looked at it, it was like, you feel me? Like, if you was at you was in Texas and you had a wild night and this girl never told you, and then you find out 15 years later you got a son, how could he be mad at you? How could he know? Like, you she never told you this. She made her God think it was his. So how could he be mad at you? He was like, You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:06

So, real is real. Do you remember how you felt finding out all of this, though? Like when you actually stabbed, oh, this is my God. And when you seen him, did you know right off? You was like, Yeah, that's mine. Nah. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

Nah. Because when the first time I seen him, um we was out in Belma. And she was at the gas station. And when I seen her, I'm like, that's old girl. So I walked up on him, like, hey, what's up? She switched nuts on me. Called me out my name. You know why you this, that, da, da, that. I'm like, What? You ain't been tripping on my son. Why you asking me now? I said, I just asked you a question. Um, the only question that I asked you was, people said you got a son that looked like me. You know what I'm saying? What's going on? And she just went berserk on me, but it was her defense mechanism to keep me away because her, she didn't want her lie to be exposed. You know what I mean? She didn't want her lie to be exposed, and that's what it would be. It would expose her lie. So she tried to push me away. So I seen she got out of the van. So I went to the van and uh I looked at him, he looked at me, right? And when I looked at him and he looked at me, it was really that. It was like, ah, okay. You know what I'm saying? Like, nah, this ain't my son. You know what I'm saying? He had a he had a goofy look on his face. I'm like, nah, man, it's like, but because you know, as a as a person of my, of where I, you know, you got a vision of how you want your kids to look. Yeah. And I'm like, nah, that ain't my son. But he was my son. He was just my darkest, he's my darkest son. And so uh, you know, I was like, man, we was in Belgium. She was doing all the screaming and yelling. I'm like, the police coming, man. I know they're coming. We in Belton, we can't do this. So I just went on here and pulled off. And I told God, I'm like, man, if you want him in my wife, put him in my wife. And I was going to uh in Damas and Damas, because me and Palmasan had uh final track records at the time. And uh we was out doing our final track records thing, and you know, um I got my dribble in, got my chain, you know, cleaned up and all this other stuff. And she pulled up because she stayed right around the corner. Said I need to talk to you. I'm like, all right, in a well-lit public place, though, because you you made it, you made a big scene there. And uh, yeah, the rest was history, man. After we argued for I don't know how long, she made it hard for me to see, but I ended up seeing him and we clicked. You know, I was the daddy was missing, you know, and then I was a cool dad. I got him going to school with Chevy's on 26s with beat and knock and candy paint on it, and you know, I was the cool dad. I'm gonna make sure he was straight. You know, I love my kids, so he didn't want for nothing. You know what I mean? So it was really that. Well, kids gonna always want for something. I don't care if you give them everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

You know, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:58

So was the first day hanging with him like, did you feel yourself trying to make up for a lot of lost time or uh you just Nope.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:08

Man, that's I think that's the worst thing we try to do. I just want to get to know you, man. Okay. You know, tell me, tell me about you, man. Let me get to know you, you know, and let me tell you about me, you know. And uh I didn't do too much, even though he looked just like me. Oh, even though he looked just like me, I I I pumped my brakes a little bit. And the reason why is because I took care of uh another young man for years, and he ended up not being mine. He looked just like me. I'm talking about ears folding down like mine, all of that. But he ended up not being mine. And it was like, man, how can somebody look just like me not be mine, you know? But he wasn't mine. So I plumped my brakes with my son. I'm like, I'm gonna get a blood test, bro, before I jump into the conclusions. You know, even though, like I say, this too, especially his baby pictures, man. It was like, ah, this is me. You know what I mean? But uh, yeah, I just wanted to get to know him, man. We was chilling, talking, and you know, let's hang out, man. Let's talk more, and I would pull up on him, and you know, the rest of the rest, he moved in with me in no time. Like, it might have been a week or two. And he moved in with me, and we just started bonding.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:23

It was dope. And at this time, he already had other siblings by you, right?

unknown 1:18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:30

All my kids at that at that point. So I had my, I had my baby son, which is Malachi, and then I had my middle son, which is little Matt, and then he was my oldest son. So I had my daughter, um, Mimi at the time, and I had another daughter, which is our older sister, our name was Croche. Um, I got her from my kids' mother's relationship. So her father was killed very young at Chemical. And uh, and it's crazy. I own a spot right across the street where Chemical was. It's crazy. My bar is right across the street from Chemical. But um, you know, he ain't got killed. And so she was my daughter. And uh, I didn't, I don't, I don't care. That's my that's my baby. You feel me? And then I had another daughter named J Shell from I was married for like 17 years. Um, and and her daughter, I raised, it's it's it's crazy. I got in both of their life when they was three. Both of them. And so uh, yeah, yeah, I got it both of their life when they was three. And, you know, it was it was a beautiful thing, bro. And when we all super connected. I'm talking about, you would never think that they were step kids at all, because I don't believe in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:46

If you mind, you mine. And just because me and your mama ain't together don't got nothing to do with me and your relationship. So, you know, I've kept, you know, I'm like my my um my kid's mother, I ain't been with her in 20 some years, you know what I'm saying? 20 some years, but me and my daughter still like this, we connected. So, you know, that's what I love about that part. Be daddy to her.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:09

So how so how did, especially Little Matt, how did they make that adjustment to having a new big brother because Little Matt ain't the big brother no more. They were so, I'm gonna be honest.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

They would, I made it smooth and I made it work because I already was a was a was a dad to so many kids because I coached. You see what I'm saying? So I always had the fun house. So it's on any given day, it's 10, 15 kids in my house, you know, and I fed everybody and we kicked it and we was family. So it was, I think it was an easy transition for that reason because, you know, I already had a whole bunch of kids around anyway. So my boys, I mean, it was a lot of mess. You know, you did this for this one, but you didn't do this for it. I'm like, wait a minute, hold on. That wasn't the case. He lives here. He opposed to you don't. You know what I'm saying? So you can't say that. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, so I you think I spend more time with him, but I don't. But he just he lives here. You don't, you know, so it was a lot of that. I get it, you know. But but we got to it. You know what I'm saying? My boys loved him. They they love their big brother, man. It was dope, but they could be a lot tighter than what they are. They could be. I I can see him being tighter, but um, it is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. They close. So we was all together on Sunday. So they close. They rock. They just ain't close as they they should be. You know, they don't hang out like like brothers do or like they should, you know. But they oh they do have a gaze gap there. You know, my my youngest is 23. Um, 22, 23, my youngest boy, and then he's 32, 33. You know what I mean? So, you know, that's that's a big difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

You talked earlier about losing one of your children. Is that little Matt?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:05

Little Matt. Uh, how did you lose me?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

Yeah. But you know, um our kids, again, um sometimes can be a product of the environment. You know. And um my son, no matter how much of a father I was, and I and I he never had to worry about nothing if he asked me. Um kids can do too much. So um my son just got a full-rock scholarship to Iowa. He was on his way up out of here uh to play basketball. He's gonna be the first person in my family to play Division I basketball. Um, but he had to go to uh um whatever it was, it was they they sent him to a Juke Juke call, whatever it was first, um, because they were so impressed with his motor and what he was doing in AAU basketball, you know. And uh if I'm not loud enough, let me know too, man. But uh Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would say for myself, um, he went to call some girl on Instagram, buy some weed from her. They said he took it. You know what I mean? I got two different stories. One story was he walked up to the window, she said, I don't sell weed out the window, get in the car. My son gets in the car, gets the weed. She says he runs off, so that's why she shot him. Now, my son got a pocket full of money. Okay. Um, so if that was the case, I wouldn't understand that. He got a pocket full of money.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

So then the other story was he got in the car, he seen the gun, and thought he she was trying to rob him. So he got out and took off, and she shot him in the back of the head. And um, man, you know, that was the worst day of my life, you know. Getting that phone call, you know, that's your that's your son been shot. Um, and I think research, research plagued me. Because research made me feel like, you know, they really gave my son everything they could, but they really didn't. Research was more worried about trying to get me to donate my son's organs. Um, but yeah, the the the lady, the girl that killed my son, I'm I was super close with her mama. Her mama used to work with me in my travel business that I had. So she used to work under me in my travel business, so I was cool with her mama. So it was just a it was a mess. It was a mess, man. So she saw my son, and then the girl that was with her um told her, you can't leave him laying in the street like that. I'm not letting you do that. So her girlfriend told her that. So she waited until the police got there. So the good thing I will say, it did catch me all the way. You know what I mean? So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:10

And you had to have a conversation with her mama about this.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:14

Yeah, she tried to play me. And um, it took everything inside of me not to really be crazy in a situation. Well, she tried to play me, bro. She was like, man, can you please tell the prosecutor that that you're not you're not tripping online and trying to get me to pretty much give her a lot a lot less time. I'm like, are you you serious right now? You know what I'm saying? Like, the fact that your daughter killed my son, that's what you want? You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:46

You had to deliver the news to your other kids?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:51

Um, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was hard, man. You know? It was hard. And um, I don't know. I don't even know how I got through that, bro. I don't, I don't know how I got through it. I don't know how I, you know, I just kept putting my faith in God, and I'm still going through it every day, you know. But yeah, yeah, man. Yeah. I had to tell them and, you know, hey, you know, this is what this is, man. It's whole, my kids was uh, they was devastated, bro. Because Lil Matt was the life of the party. Lil Matt was the big brother that wasn't a big brother at the time. So, you know, the whole family missed that dude, man. You know, on a on a on a major level, on a major level. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:47

The forgiveness part, how did you get to the point where you forgave her?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:51

I was enraged, man. I was enraged. I'm gonna start nothing, but I gotta finish. And I was enraged. And sometimes being enraged, people don't understand the concept of everybody can get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:08

And um I was in that I was in that place. I was in that space if everybody can get it. I don't care who or where why. If you say something to me, it's that. You feel me? And um I knew I was gonna go to jail. I knew I was gonna go to jail, especially when the mama did what she did. I I wanted to kind of pull up on her and do stuff. I'm like, man, you tripping, bro. You know what I mean? But um I knew if I did not forgive them, I would hold on to that range for the rest of my life. And I wasn't gonna stop until something happened to them. So this was the beginning of my forgiveness journey. Um, my major forgiveness journey. I had done some stuff in between there, but that was the beginning of my major forgiveness journey, having to forgive her for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:58

And she showed no remorse to incorporate. And I'm sitting right there looking at her, and she looking at it like it ain't nothing. Like she really wants to smile and laugh. I'm glad she didn't, but you know, that's what I'm really looking at. I'm like, wow, you know. So uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:15

In your time of rage and like after that happened, was it hard for you to be present as far as the other kids, or would you still, you know, mentally there, or would you I wouldn't say it was hard for me to be present, I think I was more present.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:31

Okay. You know, um, because I was scared of you know, when you lose a kid, first thing that goes to your mind is what part did she play in that? What it what you know what what could I have done different? Um why did this happen to me? Why my son? You know, um, so it changes the way that you look at life when it comes to kids. So yeah, it made me it made me closer. Made me closer. Try to spend more time with them. You know, I can only do so much because of my businesses and all the stuff I got going on, but trying to spend more time with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:10

Yeah. Did you find a um, I guess because you sit because you connected it to earlier, you connected it to like your dad not spending time with you, or not not spending time with you, but stuff you were missing from your dad. Yeah. Did you find knowing that you got all these businesses that run and then you got other kids and stuff, did you find more appreciation from your father for your father in that time and understanding what he had to go through?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:42

That was the moment me and my daddy, I don't know. I felt like the daddy my first time my daddy told me he love me. When he seen the forgiveness that I was able to give this young lady, um, I felt like that was the first time my daddy told me he love me. He said he'd done it before, I don't remember. But I felt like that was the first time, and so it really broke me down. You know, because I I I thrived for that. I thrived for my daddy to say, I love you, son, and I'm proud of you. That's it. I think that's why my sons now go so hard on a lot of levels. Um, you know, because they just want my approval. You know, and and and and my approval is there. You know, I'm proud of them, I love them anyway. But I think they fight so hard because they seen my work ethic that they want to get the approval from me, other things like that. So, yeah, yeah, me and my dad got closer, a lot closer. Um, because of that, because of that, um, because of that reason. Yeah. The forgiveness that I gave this girl. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:50

You talked about earlier also forgiving some of the people you shot at you had shootouts with and hiring them. And what you do, what is a conversation like that look like? Like.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:04

I think the conversation is, you know, um, sometimes you gotta talk out a situation first to know what a situation really is. And most people don't. So when you don't talk out of situation, you don't even know what she was shooting for. So many people don't even know what they was into it for. All they know is you got into my homeboy, and I'm with you. And I'm like, man, hold on, no, but you know what I'm saying, your homeboy was this, or this was this. And he's like, oh man, I didn't know that. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, well, your boy was doing this, your boy robbed me, bro. And so now you gotta, bro, man, I apologize. I owe you that apology. Because I didn't know that part. I only knew my homeboy was my homeboy, and I was protecting him. So just having a conversation, you would find out so many different things from men and women when it comes to folk, because you had a conversation and you'll realize that wasn't what, you know what I mean? It's been times of people to look at you like, man, this dude was looking at me crazy, he was funking. Nah, something was wrong with dude's head, or something was wrong with dude's mind, or but you didn't know that because uh he looking at the person behind you, he ain't even looking at you, but you just in that vicinity, so you didn't know that. So the the cats that I would get into it with and I had issues with, after we talked it out and we realized, well, really, man, you tripping, bro. You tripping, I'm tripping. Let's get this money. That's just what it was. So, you know, um, I had a I had a way to give, you know, make, you know, give people a chance to make a couple dollars, so that's what they did. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:33

As you may mention earlier of what you do and the stuff you're into now, and what is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:39

I am a uh regional vice president for my financial services companies. Company. I've been doing that for 10 years now. Um, you know, I I help a lot of people to become business owners, right? Um, you know, I've been doing that for 10 years, so I love that. And then also um I own AJ's Bar and Grill down on 11th and grand, you know, 1116 grand. So um to be able to do that, right? Grow up on 12th Street, you own a business on 12th Street. I am the only black-owned bar in all of downtown, right? Um, so that's an accomplishment within itself, you know, and um it's it's it's it's the rodeo. It's a rodeo, but I I've been doing that. And then also with the financial services, man, I've I've helped thousands of people to learn how to build a business, stay out the way, change your mindset. Success is the mindset change away. And then when people understand just that one fact, people will be so much more successful when it's just they understand it's this small. It ain't a big, it ain't, it ain't that it's this small. And they be like, man, that's crazy, but it is. It's the mindset away when it comes to success.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:55

Yeah. What's the transition like though, from what you used to do to getting AJ's bar and grill, being the head of this financial service, or you said you own it, or you I own it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:09

Yeah, so it is I own a company within a company. Okay. Right? Um so if you own McDonald's, you own McDonald's, but you own McDonald's. Gotcha. You know what I mean? So I own a company within a company. So that's what I gotta own a McDonald's, but I don't own the actual McDonald's.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:27

There we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:28

So um it was hard. It was hard because in my mind, I've been a boss my whole life. I ain't been no, I've been a big dog. So being a big dog, coming from big dog status to having to now become one of the Indians, it was different. Because as a big dog, you think you know everything. You can't really tell me much of nothing. I I know everything. And so when I say I know everything, anything you're gonna throw my way, I got the answer to that. I was a store manager for 20 years. You see what I'm saying? So I was always the smart guy. I knew, I knew how everything worked or whatever. So for me, I think that was the defining thing for my transition. I just I wanted more. I always wanted to dress nice, I always wanted to be fly, dress in fly clothes. I seen them guys, and growing up, I always wanted that type of job that you could dress like this, and the women are flesh like this, and the guys are fresh like that, you got your Stacy at them off. I always wanted that. And so this gave me an opportunity to do that. I met a guy named uh Ron L. Burns. He was out in St. Louis, Missouri, um, by way of another guy named Josh Case, and I was doing travel, and uh, you know, they came up and hollered at me in like, man, you want to make some real money, you want to keep doing this. I'm like, man, what you talking about, man? I said, all y'all do is be coming with this pyramid scheme, you know, bro, go on, man, or whatever. And so uh I wasn't trying to hear it. I'm like, man, come on, bro. I don't want to hear that. You know what I mean? That's another one of them things, or you about to come to me with some crazy stuff. He was like, all right, man. So he showed me facts. Women lie, men a lot of numbers, don't lie. He showed me facts. So he pulled his phone out. He said, I was just over there. You just see me over there for 10 minutes, and I made $1,500. I said, Whoa, show me that again. Yeah, you feel me? Show me that again. So we like, look, I said, you just make that over there. It's like, yeah, I just made that. So he did a dime, T I M E, boom. I said, What is that? He showed me how to do it, turned the paper over, said it's how we make the money. So we said, you make $1,800, you do it yourself, $400, and somebody else do it. But the biggest thing, I done joined for 18, I didn't join it before, I drove for 14. You get 10 people to do one policy a month, or whatever. I'm like, wait a minute, bro, this is crazy. Like, so you trying to tell me something that everybody needs, I can make this type of money? He's like, Yeah. I said, man, sign me up. That's right. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I knew the mindset was I could always get another job, but you can't always find somebody to mentor you to change your life to make the type of money he made. So I'm like, all right, that's right. You know, not too often we're scared to jump. We're scared of things that are outside of our comfort zone. Your brain is meant to keep you safe. Your brain ain't meant to tell you to jump. Your brain is meant to keep you safe. It's your safety zone. It's supposed to tell you that the stove is hot, don't jump. Right? Your parents is your safety zone. Your parents are gonna tell you, don't do that. Because that's that's not that's not guaranteed money. Right? Your parents don't want to have to, they don't want you to get in their pockets. They don't want that. We celebrate, we don't really celebrate success, we celebrate just the fact that our kids got a job. They ain't even in our pockets no more. We're happy about that, right? And so that we ain't, it ain't nothing that you was taught at school or nothing to be a CEO or be an entrepreneur. Everything is go get a school, go to school, go to college and work for somebody else. Yeah. So that's what that's that's that's all we taught. We ain't taught nothing else. It's crazy because you think about the people at Ford, they make more money than 90% of the world that's been to college two to four years. At Ford. But the people that that went to school will act like you're stupid. You ought to educate it. Well, wait a minute, you you've got an education, you're making $20,000, $30,000 a year, but this dude at Ford making $100. So who's really the dumb? Right? That's the difference, though. The difference is we've been made and trained to think that the person that's not like you or don't do what you told them to do, yo, the person that don't spend college money, they stupid.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:40

Yeah. You ever been in these uh business rooms or and they try to little man you? Yeah, when you first started. How did that feel coming from being the big man?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:57

Oh, it's it's different, and you gotta swallow your pride.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:00

Were you able to do that when you first at the first time?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:04

It got ugly. In the beginning, it got real ugly. It was a lot of arguments, like, but I had a come to Jesus moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:15

And that come to Jesus moment, you'll realize that you gotta get over yourself. And your own understanding got you where you are now. And if you're not happy with where you are now, you're not where you need to be. How do you get there? You gotta learn from somebody else. Right? So my understanding got me where I was at then. Man, my understanding made me who I was at the time, but that ain't who I wanted to be. So if I kept doing what I was doing, I was gonna keep getting what I was getting. So, in order for me to transition and make the money I wanted to make, he was making the type of money I wanted to make. So I gotta put my brain in his brain, and whatever he understood, I gotta understand. The way I think, I'm thinking, man, this party, it's my homeboy party. I'm there. Saturday, right? I'm in there. But but that was my understanding that that's what I had to do, because that's my homeboy. The truth is, and he said, you can't go to that party. Send your homeboy a gift, he'll forgive you like that. I'm like, man, I'm not, bro, we, man, I'm at the party. You feel me? He like, Matt, listen to what I just said. Send your homeboy a gift. Let him know we're gonna party. We got to get this money, and your team is gonna be like this. This gotta be. I'm not understanding it. Because my my only mindset has been my understanding. My understanding is ain't nothing wrong with going to the party. But the truth is, it's a lot wrong with going to the party when you have so much at stake. You have other stuff that you gotta do. You gotta put all that stuff on the back bar. You gotta get in this shape and get ready for success. You gotta be prepared. You gotta have self-development, self-education, self-discipline. Man, listen, this thing's different, man. I had a hope, I had a come to Jesus moment, bro. I did. My understanding got me where I was, and I wasn't rich as I wanted to be, but he was rich as I wanted to be. So I'm gonna put my body in yours. Whatever you think, even if I don't agree, that's why you got a coach and a mentor. Even when you don't agree, you need to agree. You understand what I'm saying? So that's what it was for me. Even when I didn't agree, I agreed and I let it be what it was because I wanted his money. So now I make the type of money that he was making, right? I make the type of money he was making now. So love that company pays me almost $400,000 a year. Kid from the ghetto, right? I make I make the same amount of money that most CEOs of companies make. Never been to college. I took a two-day class. You see what I'm saying? It's different, bro. It's different. Like tough. You feel me? Hey, man, it's different to being able to buy different stuff. When I do what I want, when I want, how I want, man, because life is different. And so to be able to go back to my school and give out scholarships, to be able to give out $20,000, $30,000 worth of toys on a regular basis, to give out book packs and backpacks and do easter egg hunts and you know, pull up on people. Man, you know, I bless so many people, but I've never, ever, ever, I don't believe in putting people on Facebook. Yeah. I don't believe in it. Got to. I think if you did it and you had to put them on Facebook, you did it for the wrong reasons. So if I walk, I walk up on people, man, that are bums, you know, and here, you know, I see people. I'm let me quit using that word. Less fortunate. I apologize.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:24

I just had to figure out a word myself for that. Yeah. Less fortunate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:29

And I'm gonna tell you what's crazy about that, man, when you talk about the less fortunate. What's crazy about that is we mocked them, but we knocked them, but we don't know why. We don't know why. Bro, if you lost your mama, your sister, your cousin in a car wreck, are you gonna be the same person? Bro, if you lost your whole family, you know, and your whole family got killed in a in a fire, are you gonna be the same person? Bro, them people out there for a reason. And we sit here and we mock them and we talk about them, but you don't even know why they're out there. You like, man, how does it you see beautiful women out there, you see good brothers out there, nice looking brothers. You say, man, it's the why you out here, bro. But you don't understand. They fighting something mental that you'll never know. That's why I don't judge people, man. I don't judge people. I don't judge people for who they are. People, people know who they are for a reason. You know how we say, oh man, she had she at H-O-E and all this other stuff. But you don't know that her daddy and her brothers and every man that was in her life that loved her touched her. So she don't know no better. She don't have no hope. Every man that she's ever believed in took her innocence from her. You understand what I'm saying? Real. Bro, 70, 80% of women have been touched.

unknown 1:43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:45

70, 80% of women have been touched, and we and we go through life not understanding that because men, we don't go through that. Man, we don't go through that. Well, go through no a lot of men, let's say 90% of men. Some of these men do go through that sometimes. But we don't go through that, man. So how can you understand what a woman is going through when you ain't never been there? You feel what I'm saying? So that that's where that's where my mindset has been different. Man, I stopped judging people. Man, I used to be that dude who used to talk about people. But her priorities is messed up. Well, who taught her? Uh-oh. That's where we hit people in a in a in a stomach. Well, who taught her how to have right? Who taught her the right way? Because her mama was like this. Her daddy wasn't nowhere to be found. So this is all she knows. So why are you talking about her instead of her talking about a helper? Say, baby, come here, let me show you something better. Let me help. Nah, that ain't what we do as people. We just knock you as people. We talk bad about you as people. We we trash you as people instead of saying, this little girl dressed like this because her daddy's been touching her since her uncle or her cousin, her mama's boyfriend been touching her since she was six years old. So this is how she gets her love by showing her body. This is how she gets her attention, by because this is the only way she feels loved. But but but you a classy woman. What have you done for her? Did you take her to church? Did you show her something different? Did you because the only way that they say black people get that kind of love is in church? The church is just as bad sometimes. You see what I'm saying? So that's the question, bro. Gotta quit judging people, man. You got people are who they are because they they go through what they go through, man. But you know, my my my blessings come tenfold, man. Because I I do so much for people. And and I and I and I and I take pride in knowing it ain't a man on this earth that can say, man, I robbed you. I took nothing from you. You can't say none of that about me. You can't say nothing, but Matt's try to give you the best. The people that hate me are the people that I help the most. The people that hate me are the people that I try to help the most, that I try to get the most money to, that I try to do the most for. But I pride myself in that. I pride myself in going from the slumps to the trumps. You feel what I'm saying? Like, bro, I'm just getting started. This thing's gonna pay me a million dollars a year when I man, I'm I'm not, listen, bro, I'm on my way, and I'm gonna take some people with me that wanna go. But unfortunately, it ain't always the people that you want to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:21

Right? Unfortunately, it ain't always the people you want to go. My team of people, my team that I've been building, man, they ain't, I don't know none of them. I didn't know none of them before this business. And the cats that was right there with me, that watched me come from the slumps that know what I'm doing. I, ah man, I can't. What? You but if I had the pack, and I said, hey bro, I got the pack. Let's go. Oh, let's go. You can do that though. But but but as people, we can we can do anything we put our mind to, we can achieve anything we put our mind to, man. So I love coming from, you know, where I came from, to being able to be now in rooms with people where I used to be intimidated to being in rooms with them people. Eddie Vs and all these rich people that got money and and and nice. I didn't belong in there, bro. I didn't, I didn't, I couldn't see myself being in corporate rooms with executives that's making all this money. And now, I'm somebody for you to meet. You feel what I'm saying? I'm somebody for you to meet. Bro, I, hey, listen, I I get it, that's great, but I'm somebody for you to meet. I go on them places now, I don't even look at the menu, I don't look at the prices. I used to, man, I can't. I took 15, 20 people that did these before. Paid for everybody. Different. You feel what I'm saying? Different like. In in stretch limos, and gave them $1,000 and blue money on people, man, because of this blessing that God got for me. You understand what I'm saying? Huh? I said, and didn't sweat. Didn't even look at the I didn't even look at the I didn't look at the bill or nothing. The lady came with the bill, I said, here. And she stood there, she looked at me, she said, holy crap. She looked the color of my skin. She's like, holy crap. I'm like, yeah. You're not even gonna open it? I'm like, no. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? But but it's because, again, I'm not gonna sit here and say, I'm, you know, I've always been this way, because I'm not. You know, I haven't. I've had my ups, I've had my downs, I've had my struggles, I've taken my losses, I've done all of that. But boy, when I say I'm a serial entrepreneur, I'm a serial entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:28

And I and I own line services, concession stands, I did that for years. I I did promoting. I brought a lot of artists here. Um, I did that. I did a whole lot of investing in a lot of concerts. You know, you name it, RB concerts, rap concerts. I did that. I did artistry. Um, you know, sports was my biggest thing. I love sports. So, man, I've been involved in a lot of stuff. I've been involved in a lot of stuff, man. I got a lot of blessings. So I know a lot of people for those reasons. And uh, but yeah, yeah, bro. I just, I love life, man. I love life. And if people could simply understand the difference between winning and losing this success, is that this is a blink of a mindset. It's mindset. People can't win. I ain't nobody special. It's just a mindset. And if I can get in your head and I can get you to just turn the switch just a little bit, your life is gonna be completely different. The difference between what you're making now and six figures is is simple mindset, ships. That's why I pride myself in doing what I'm doing, because nobody came and got me. Nobody said, come here, young man, let me give you a chance. Get out these streets, man. This ain't for you. Come here. I got something for you. You too, you too young to be in these streets. Nobody gave me that chance. I didn't get I didn't start doing what I was doing since I was 36. Right? I started doing this to 36, bro. I've been in 10 years now. You know what I'm saying? I'm 46 now. So my whole life of the stuff that I've been through, nobody opened the door and said, Come here. Let me show you the way. But I'm doing that. I just recruited another young 18-year-old young man. I was putting in a business. It's gonna be everything, man. I got 18, 19 year old young man. I've been a father, figure, mentor to so many, man. It's been a blessing. It's been a bless. That's why I'm so hard losing my son. I'm like, man, hold on, bro. I'm keeping a thousand kids out the street. How mine? How this happened to mine? And I and I, hey, when I say I got the party house, I keep all the kids out the street. I done pay, man, my basketball team, they didn't pay for nothing. And the parents know it. Every once in a while, they might put a little something. I pay for the tournaments, I pay for the out-of-town trips, I pay for the hotels, I pay for the travel, I pay for all that. Now I had a couple of parents that were kicking in to help. Yeah. But I'm not on the corner sometimes fundraising with the kids. I'm not on the corner doing whatever. But I didn't have any fundraisers, no nothing. I didn't have no parents that was really helped me fundraising. I only had one or two parents that was around. Bro, my kids didn't pay for nothing. I paid for everything. But that's a blessing that I was able to receive. God made a way. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, man, I from nothing to something. You know, is what I tell people, man. Just coming from the bottom to where I'm at now, it's been a blessing, man. I'm involved with a lot of great men doing some great things. So yeah, yeah, Asian is something different.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:26

Going back a little bit to helping people that are less fortunate. Yeah. Have you ever had a great turnaround story from that? You know how you were saying, like, hey, why you here? Let me help you up out the. Have you ever had a great turn? Because a lot of times a lot of us try to do that with people and they end up right back where they were. And I can understand how I can lead back that way because you ain't used to this type of stuff. But have you had a success, success story with that? Several.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:56

Um, but I think um I have way more stories of what you just said. Some people going back.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:04

Um, because lazy is easy.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:08

Change is hard. It's hard to accept that you wasn't what they told you you was. It's hard to accept that you weren't as smart as they told you you was, or you don't know everything. Well, I wouldn't say smart, but you weren't as knowledgeable in certain areas that you thought you was, where you thought you knew everything, and nobody could ever do nothing wrong. So I got a lot of success stories, man. I've taken a lot of young ladies from nothing to making six figures a year and, you know, handling this, no help. I helped a lot of young ladies do that, man. Um, and uh, you know, that's really the key, man. Just really watching, you know, um, you you such a, let me say this too. Just because they're not in your organization, don't mean you didn't help them. Yes. Right? So I've been on so many countless training calls and so many countless inspirational calls and motivational calls that I've helped so many women and men do that, that it's been everything. You know, I've I've I've had an opportunity to speak in front of thousands of people, you know, um, and tell my story and really do what I do, man. So that's that's that's next level within itself. But yeah, the stories is there, man. The stories is there of people that I took from the streets to doing good, but then some people just can't, they're gonna go back to doing what they was doing because it's easier. Business is hard, man. Entrepreneurship is hard. Standing on your own, too, and your own understanding is hard. People don't understand how big that is, right? So that's just that's really what it was for me. Just understanding that uh business and opportunity is hard, man. Everything's hard, but you can do it. You just gotta want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:46

I just got a few more for you. With owning a bar as a black man, especially in the area where you live, what's the hardest thing you've had to deal with with both sides? Our side and the white side. Let's just say the white side being black.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:03

They don't want me down there, bro. I'm going through lawsuits right now. They do not want me down there. I'm getting harassed by the police. They're coming in my place. Um I mean, they do not want me down there, and they got petitioners across the street to get me out, trying to get me lawsuits and get me out. I mean, this is we going through hell down there, right? That's why they got that lawsuit on Westport because they was doing the same thing down there. Um, but I'm getting it on a whole nother level because it was already kind of put there, and I'm the only one down there. Yeah. So um dealing with that, you know, I got a I got a great lawyer that's on top of that right now. So we're going through a whole process as well, man. But uh I say that that's really the hardest part on that side, just dealing with them, you know, not wanting us down there. Um, so they don't support us. They see us and keep walking. They don't want to, you know, because again, the narrative of the with the with the news painted of us, right? They don't show the same thing that's happened out in the suburbs, even though he done did this and he done shot somebody, they're not gonna show that. But if you did that in the city, or if it's black, they gonna show that, right? So what they show is people think we like. All these people that are here for FIFA. They think we think we slaves. They don't, they don't, they don't, they don't value us. They look at us like we garbage, man. Like we some trash. Because this is the narrative that's been painted out there in the world. This is why I tell people when you get to sharing somebody's stuff or sharing somebody fighting, you're part of the, you're part of the problem. I hate it. You're part of the problem, man. So we we we give them fuel to the fire to be part of the problem. When you sharing somebody, slapping somebody or fighting or shooting, or, you know, man, we to the point where we put dead bodies on Facebook, man. That's crazy. I seen it. My daughter showed me something the other night, man. It was in a barbershare. I mean, brains everywhere, leaking out. I said, man, don't show me no stuff like that. But I mean, even when those, you know, God rest in peace, for when stuff happened here, tragedy and people just recording it. Like, man, come on, man. You gotta be better than that. That's somebody's kid. That's somebody's son, that's somebody's daughter. And she's laying there, and you and you wanna and you wanna record that, man? But we part of the problem. And then when we record it, guess what the news do? They take it and do what they do with it, man. So, you know, um part of the problem, man. But the hardest part for me, as far as the bar, running the bar, is dealing with my own people. That's crazy to say. But dealing with my own people, man, because as an African-American owner, um, and and being a friend, being cool with people, um it's it's to be taken advantage of all the time. It's to be taken advantage of because you are who you are. And and it's not because you do something right or wrong, it's just you're gonna always be taken advantage of because your kindness would be, they're gonna use your kindness, they're gonna take your kindness for your weakness. So running, running a bar, you know, understanding that we have so much violence in our community. So you gotta be, you gotta be sold right from the mess and people robbing each other and beating people up and all he robbed him, so now you want to come kill him because he her, he at your spot. She did this and she set her baby daddy up, so he he wanna come get her because he at your spot. You know what I'm saying? So just really the violence. Because you done put $100,000, $200,000, $300,000 in this place, and tomorrow somebody gets shot, you lost your $200,000. And ain't nothing you can do. I'm talking about it, ain't nothing you can do, it's all gone. Right? So, so just understanding that you can invest your money in a place, put all your time and effort in a place in one situation, it's gone. It ain't nothing you can do about it. So that's the hard part. It's just really, like I said, dealing with a group of women, you know, most bars are filled with women and not filled with men, right? So it's hard to manage so many women at one time. It's tough, man. It's tough. You know what I'm talking about. It's tough. Beyond tough. You know what I mean? So that's what I would say. For me, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:58:14

That's the hardest part. Um, we were talking about God and your calling earlier, and we you talked about how not too long ago, you talked about how lazy is easy, but also comfortability can be easy and your regiment can be like easy. It's so hard for you to make that transition over to your what you feel like your calling is. What is it that people come to you and tell you what that they feel your calling is, and do you feel like that's your calling and what's keeping you from it?

SPEAKER_00 1:58:47

Um of course the people that are around me, what I'm in now, they know my calling is you know, mentoring culture. But it's always been pastorial ship, you know. Um, where you all yeah, so it's it's it's always been that for a long time, man. And um yeah, I get that all the time. I get mentorship, I get you know, um inspirational, but that's the name, that's the main one I get. But again, like I told you before, um, I have a level of fear for that. I fear doing it's almost like I feel like I'm gonna mess up. And then I contradict myself because that comes back to the business. Like you're not supposed to fear nothing, you're supposed to just do it. And you gotta jump, you gotta take a leap fate, leap of faith. But you know, I don't know, man. I don't know. I just I ain't gonna lie. It's a bit uncomfortable. More than uncomfortable, man. I I'm something about it terrifies me. And I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you why. Something about it terrifies me because um to me, my dad doesn't have a life. He ain't living. You got what I'm saying? He goes to church, funerals, church, Bible study again, church event, back home. Right? And to me, that's not an attractive life. Right? I want to go to Miami, sit on a yacht, have a sip. You know what I mean? I want to go out of town, over here. I want to enjoy life. I like comedy shows. I like funny stuff. I like, I just don't think my dad can do none of that kind of stuff. You know what I'm saying? When you're a pastor, you can't be in no comedy show with Mojo Brooks saying some silly stuff he's saying. Dad think it's funny. Well, I'm just saying, bro, you can't, bro. You you can't do it. And I I love life, bro. I I love, I worked hard to be able to do what I want to do when I want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:58

Let me let me interrupt, bro. I think we we, this is just from my point of view. I think we get the whole pastor thing and just think you gotta be on a podium, think you gotta be in a church and all of that. First of all, you are the church. Secondly, I feel like we gotta meet the world where it is a lot of the time. So if you out on a yacht in Miami and you feel the the spirit moving in you to put something on somebody, yeah, that's the work. Your tithes to me is that uh philanthropy that you do out in the streets and stuff. You you you showing people how to tithe, you're showing, you giving back to God's people. Come on, because all these people is God's people. You are reaching, you can reach people through what you do, it's just how you do it, and not doing, you know, as long as you ain't promoting the negative stuff. I don't I don't see a reason why you can't still have fun. I don't feel like God is like stop your life. Because a lot of times a lot of us aren't meant to reach those people in those invite that type of uh setting. You're meant to reach them how he put you there to reach them. And I don't know if that's right, but I'm just saying, like, I think we remove ourselves from a lot of like pushing people into that direction when we think we're supposed to be in a certain place to do it.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:23

When I say, if you get on my trainer, you would think I'm already doing it. Because we pray every training, we pray before, after. Um, we pray a lot. We talk about God a lot, you know, and we and we come up with a lot of, we talk about a lot of Bible scriptures. We go through a lot of stuff, man. We break stuff down. Um, you know, what does that scripture mean to you? You know? Um, so you would think, you know, I mean I'm already in that realm, but you're right, you're 100% correct. I just, I'm gonna be honest, I think something about me makes me nervous when it comes to that, you know, not understanding what I can and can't do, probably because, like I said, the examples before me, um, you know, nobody made the life look glorifying. Nobody made the life look like I want that. You know what I mean? Um, but but like you said, you can be a part of church, man. You can be a youth pastor. You don't have to be the head pastor, you don't have to be, you know, it's up to you. You can just be a part of the church, you can be an assistant pastor, you can be a part, you know what I mean, you can do that. Um, I just know me. I've been a leader and everything. So at some point, I'm gonna be the head pastor. And then when I become the head pastor, it's like, uh, let me make sure I'm on my game. So I don't know. You're right though.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:40

Yeah, that's I mean, if that's what happens, that's just part of the journey. Yeah. And you gotta just embrace it along the way and not being like, uh, I'm gonna have to not go to my. I mean, pastors go on trips too. Now, what you do when you go on the trip is a little, a little different. You can still have fun, bro. You can still buy your cars and stuff like that. You're giving back. Solomon had everything. Let me ask you this.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:05

Because this is a good subject. Let me ask you this. So, you're a man of God? I feel like so, yes, sir. So, so my question is, you on a cruise? And you single? All these women is on this cruise, and you're single, and all these women want you, they ready to go. Right? A certain part of you ain't supposed to do that. Because you're a man of God and you're a believer. So a sudden part of you ain't supposed to do that. But then another part of you says, Let me meet the world where it's at. Right? Do you feel like it's okay to do that? Do you feel like it's okay to just go ahead and live a little bit? Do you feel like it's okay to have because my flesh is the weakest thing we have. Right. And so, do you feel like that's okay? Or do you feel like that's a that's not something that that's not okay?

SPEAKER_02 2:04:57

I feel like even Jesus was tempted. The devil tried to offer him the everything, you know what I'm saying? And he still found the way to fight through it. Like, I mean, we all got our own battles, and you don't, you don't become a pastor and lose being tempted. Them same women you were talking about on the yacht and all that stuff, there'd be some bad women in church. Yes, I do. And who's the lead of the church, the pastor? Who they all gunning for a lot of the time? The pastor, the women coming up to the pastor. You gotta learn how to fight temptation. That's sure, that's just another fight for you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't run away from the fight, embrace it. I I work at a place where there's I feel like it's a lot of good-looking women. Nice shapes and everything, but I'm married and I appreciate my marriage so much and don't want to disappoint her or God. My kid, huh? Can't even see it. I love it. Yeah, I can see it. Talk about the women. I can see the women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I know it don't mean nothing. You know what I'm saying? I got a greater purpose. And not saying I can't mess up. I'm human. And I get tempted like anybody else by the worldly things. So I'm just saying, like you're never gonna not be tempted. Gotcha. That's how I feel. You never, even like your dad has been tempted. Yeah. If he tells you he ain't he lying, everybody's been tempted, bro. Like, yeah, and if your dad is still like a straight dude after doing all that, yeah, he'll say look, but no less. Yeah. And he's messed up, I'm sure, before. I ain't even talking about with women, just in the way he shouldn't have. So I'm just saying, like, bro, I think you can be the one that, like, I've been on a trip with my homeboys to Miami. And they was on something and I wasn't on it. And they just like, I don't know how you're doing it. You know what I'm saying? But I just knew it was a greater purpose for me. And not to say I couldn't mess up.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:53

Man, that's big, bro. I I just I'm I'm I'm here. I'm I'm I'm gonna get my life together. Um your time. Gotta strive for greatness, man, every day I can. I wake up every day and try to be great. So I I don't I don't deny what you said. I I don't. I'm with you. I just that's my only thing. You know what I'm saying? Like, well, I'm terrified, man. But the rest of the rest, man. So yeah, yeah. I mean, I appreciate the interview, man. I appreciate you having me, man. I appreciate you giving me the platform. Um, it's a blessing. You know, this is not something that's taken lightly. I think a lot of people, um, if they knew about the channel, more people will watch.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:36

Um, so it's something that we all, um, as people, we gotta promote this, man, because this is big. You know, giving people a platform to talk and really get their stuff out and get they, you know, get they they they thing out, they issues and they mindset and everything, man.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:51

So yeah, yes, sir. Man, I appreciate you choosing us and I appreciate all you say you do for the community. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Uh another thing I will ask you to do to leave us marked out, that's just words for the minds and the hearts, and to pray us out. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:07

Um, well, my words for the minds of the heart, man. It's it's hopefully uh my story, my my ability to be able to forgive, um, you know, my ability to be able to let go um and understand and inspire. You know, I just inspire as many people as I can aspire to go do something great. Um, you know, be be just just just be a person of of character, be a person of of, you know, just just be in tech have integrity, man. And um we gotta stop worrying about what everybody thinks about us. It's bigger than you. Get over yourself. Right? And and when you understand it's bigger than you, get over yourself. School taught us what we need to learn to get through school, right? But the world is gonna teach you what you need to learn every day to be great. Self-educate yourself. You know, self-discipline, man, all those different things. Prepare for success and know you're successful before you're successful, know you can do it, know that it's done. You know, we serve a God that you gotta have faith. But faith without works is dead, right? And so so many times our people perish because of lack of knowledge. You know, because we won't pick up a book. You know, 95% of people have never touched the book after they got out of school. Never. They've never read the book, nothing. So the knowledge ain't being transferred like it should be because we're not reading. We're not trying to be better. We get out of school, we take that deep breath. Like, I don't have none of that to do with no school. I'm done. But I promise people that are successful, CEOs, uh, millionaires, they're readers. Now I mean you gotta sit and read a book, but sometimes you gotta play audiobooks and let it read to you. Sometimes you gotta watch a movie. A movie is a book, right? Some movies are books, so you gotta be able to do that, man. But the blessing for me on my life has been there. So, like I said, man, I hopefully somebody sees this and says, I'm gonna forgive somebody for the pain that they cause me. Because forgiveness is not for them, it's for you. You're not forgiving them. You're forgiving your, you're forgiving them so you can't understand that I need to get that off of me. Right? Forgiveness can cause so much stress on your heart and on your mind and everything that you're going through, right? Um, that it can hurt you and people die because they stress them over something that they can't control. I never stress over something I can't control, right? And that's really, that's really my that's really my words, man, that I that I leave them with, man. And uh, you know, I definitely pray as well. You ready for me to do that?

SPEAKER_02 2:10:38

Before you pray, I just want to say one more thing. Your level of forgiveness is a level of uh spiritual, I mean, connection to God and God's love that a lot of people haven't reached. Yeah. Yeah. For the things you forgive him for. Yeah. It's a level a lot of people won't that haven't reached yet. So I gotta, I think you gotta give yourself more credit for being in that in that lane going towards your purpose. But that's all I wanted to say.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:08

The hardest thing in the world to forgive somebody for is when they take away your children from um that's a different level, bro. But again, I I I'm not gonna be, I got other kids. I got other people, I got other families that's looking for they they looking for me, and and and and I if I can't be the person that they need, I'm killing them. Think about that. How often do we kill our other kids? Because we, you know what I mean? I'm killing my other kids because I'm sitting there holding on to this pain and I don't want to talk to them, and I'm mad. I want to kill this girl, I'm gonna do some crazy stuff, and I'm holding on to this pain, but I can't let it go, so I kill my other kids because of that, man. That's crazy. So I gotta let go. I gotta, I gotta, man, when you truly understand how powerful we are as beings, you understand, man. You understand, you gotta forgive. You gotta forgive people, man. You gotta let that let that baby daddy go, let that boyfriend go, let that chick go that hurts you, cheated on you, robbed you, let that, man, let that go, man. You know what I'm saying? Live your life, let that go, man. Keep on pushing. And if if we have more people to do that, man, this man, Kansas City is gonna be what it is, man. Kansas City is like it is because we can't find people to forgive and let go of stuff, man. We wanna fight and shoot about everything. So we're finding a reason, man. So I, you know, yeah. You're about to keep me talking another 10, 15, 20 minutes, man. I I got I got issues, man. But uh, but yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go ahead and pray um and get out of here. Um, Father God, I just want to first and foremost thank you for uh today. Every day above ground is an absolutely amazing thing, Father God, and I thank you for every breath, every step, um, every thought, every everything, Father God. Thank you for somebody today. Um, they didn't wake up. Somebody today didn't have an opportunity to turn on some lights, you know, um to have a roof over their head, Father God, to eat a home-cooked meal. Somebody didn't understand that. And so we're a race of ungratefulness, Father, but I want to tell you right now, I come for you humbly. You know, I I thank you. I appreciate everything, and I'm gonna keep giving back and letting everybody know the best way I can how wonderful you are. Um, Father God, thank you for being so forgiving. Um, you know, we sin um on a regular basis and you are forgiving. So if you can forgive us for what we've done over and over and over again, we should be able to forgive someone else. Who are we not to be able to forgive when we sin so much and you want to, we want you to forgive us, Father God. So we thank you for being such a forgiving Father, a loving Father. You know, um touch, touch our families, Father God, touch my family. You know, touch this interview, touch a lot of people, it touches souls all over. Father God, touch the interviewees and then them giving us a platform to be able to talk and give people the chance to speak their mind and speak their truth. Father God, we thank you for all that you do, Father God. We love you, we appreciate you in so many things that we pray in your name. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:11

Amen. But all that's the leave a lasting imprint on their minds and their hearts. We pray you've been indelibly marked. Appreciate that. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:17

My God. Yes, sir. Thank you. Yes, sir. We're making it happy, man.