PCOS Is Now Called PMOS. Here's What It Means for You

You've heard of PCOS. But as of May 2026, it has a new name and the change finally reflects what women with this condition have known for years: this isn't just about your ovaries.

PCOS is now officially PMOS. Polyendocrine metabolic ovarian syndrome. And in this episode, Dr. C and Kim break down exactly what that means, why it took 14 years and over 14,000 voices to get here, and what it changes for the millions of women living with this condition right now.

They also answer a listener's message a woman who moved countries, came off her IUD, wants to conceive, waited six months for an ultrasound, and got a 45-second phone call with zero guidance. This episode is the conversation she deserved.

Dr. C explains the real root cause of PMOS insulin resistance and why overconsumption of sugar and carbohydrates is driving the epidemic. Kim breaks down why crash dieting never works, why your brain has to come on board before any habit can stick, and why the most powerful changes are the small ones you actually keep.

What's covered in this episode:
 - The PCOS to PMOS rebrand and what it means for patients right now
 - Why PMOS is a metabolic disorder, not just a reproductive one
 - Insulin, sugar, and how they drive every major symptom of PMOS
 - Why Caribbean women are at particularly high risk
 - Sugar addiction and why most of us were hooked before we could walk
 - How to build sustainable habits without going cold turkey
 - Why intensity will never replace consistency

If you've been diagnosed with PCOS or PMOS and feel like you're not getting real answers, this is the episode you've been waiting for.

Women's Health Podcast with Kim and Dr. C - because women deserve better health information.

Follow us on Instagram @drcwomenshealthdoc

Follow Dr C on Instagram @drc_thewomenshealthdoc.
Follow Kim on Instagram @thewomenshealthphysio
Also check out Beyond the diagnosis with Kim and Dr C. Mondays at 8pm on Nationwide90fm (Youtube)

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hello, hello, hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of the Women's Health Podcast with Kim and Dr. C. I am Dr. Leroy Campbell, also known as Dr. C, the woman's health doc. And I'm here as usual with my beautiful co-host, Kimberly Hoffman Reid, the Women's Health Physio. Kim, how are you today?

SPEAKER_02 0:29

I am well, Dr. C. It is so good to finally sit and chat with you. I missed you so much. You see, the time the reason why I always jeering, you know, and troubling is because I miss you, you know. I miss you.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

So feeling is mutual, don't worry. You know, it seems that every time we have a show, we get into the conversation. We start it off by saying it's been so long. So it means that we need to do better.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

We need to do better.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

We definitely need to fix that. But we give thanks.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

We do, and it's good to be here with you. I have a very important conversation for us to have today, you know, one near and dear to my heart. We'll start it off with your favorite part. What's your favorite part, Dr. C?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Absolutely. Let's hear what's trending on social media. I have been horrible, Kim. I let me not say horrible, but you know, I've just not had the time to see it to be on social media much. So tell me what's going on in that world, that space.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Wait, before we go there, why you know, and the people need to know why you haven't been on social media, you know, because my friend is doing good things. It's not we don't just talk about being women's health advocate. We really are about it. So share with the people, Dr. C, what you've been up to. You're not going to speed pass it, you're not going to leave it out. No, no, no. The people need to know where have you been, Dr. C.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Oh, well, uh, we didn't, yeah, they tell me where to start. It's just work, work, work, Kim. But I think you're probably referring to is it Africa?

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Is it um it is definitely a mission trip? Tell the people where you were.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Absolutely. Yeah, so I I was in Eastern Africa, but it's almost fully a month now, at least for a couple weeks ago. Okay, I came back. Very, very inspirational experience, Kim. So essentially, we were doing some medical relief work in Tanzania, right? And in one of those areas that are particularly underserved, so not much access to medical care. And it was a good experience partnering with teams there on the ground, as well as an amazing group of individuals coming from the United States and bringing medication, setting up, we set up a makeshift clinic and pharmacy and everything, and it was fantastic. We saw just under 1,000 patients, so it was a lot of work, but the team did a fantastic job. It was funny because one of the physicians, the local physicians that I was working with, he said to me, Doc, if you guys stay here one more week, you're gonna have mass migration in the territory. You know, because people, you see, we take it for granted oftentimes when we have Kim, we take it for granted that you can go to the doctor, you can see, you can get a prescription, you can afford to fill it and so forth. But there are many people around the world who don't have that opportunity. I mean, I had patients who were coming from like 600 kilometers away just to see the physician, and you know, in many cases, they're not there's not access to their own transport, so you can imagine. It's so it was fantastic, it was a lot of work, but I really found I was tired but inspired. That's how I felt tired but inspired.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

You always inspire me, Dr. C. That is just amazing. I am happy you were able to do that. I know there'll be more things, and the people need to know because I think, as you said, we take it for granted, we complain about the doctors that we do have, but some people would kill just to have someone listen, just listen, you know, about the things that they're going through in their bodies. And I'm just happy that you could help almost 1,000 patients with their health.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I want to take the time, Kim. Thank you for bringing this up because I want to take the time to acknowledge the guys who are doing some fantastic work there because they we it was well, a group from the United States called Kingdom Mission Outreach, right? They do a lot of work in the US, particularly in Kentucky, with persons who are homeless and persons who are you know substance dependent. Fantastic work. In fact, they were voted the top rehabilitation center in Winchester, Kentucky, even though they're not a rehabilitation center at all. You know, they were just doing so much fantastic work, and so they they were there partnering with a group from the from Tanzania who J Life that does work right across Eastern Africa, and they were really the ones who put this whole thing together and it was so well organized, you know. So shout out to them. And if anyone has the opportunity to support what they're doing, then I would encourage them to support it.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Wow, okay. So we need to drop some links or something on how to support that organization. Definitely we'll do that. Alright, so we got into watch trending in your life, so let's go to watch trending on social media. So, to be fair, this trended while you were in Africa and had to wait to talk to you about this because you know this is one of those topics that's near and dare to me. Of course, you know what's coming. So PECOS got a rebrand while you were away. So polycystic ovarian syndrome, most commonly known as POS, is no more. It will now be referred to as polyendocrine metabolic syndrome or PMOS. It's just one letter, but it makes all the difference according to the doctors who treat it. So I've been waiting for my doctor to tell me what difference it's going to make for the people who treat it. But you know, it's not we've had many conversations about PECOS, so it's no surprise that people are moving away from it being this condition and more of a syndrome, as you've said multiple times on this show. So for the persons who are like, okay, PCOS PO PMOS, I still have missing periods, I still have all the symptoms that I had before. What does that mean for these women who now have this name change for this condition that they still have to manage and deal with?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

I think it's three. I would break it up into three things, Kim. I think the first has to do with the patient herself, the second with the physician, and the third, in terms of just the public awareness, public health awareness. If we start with the patient herself, what it is doing is helping individuals to get a better understanding of what this condition is really about. And you and I have spoken about POS now, PMOS, so many times. So many times. All the time, you're you I'm sure you remember that I keep saying that this is a metabolic disorder, even though it's the patients are coming to see the gynecologist, it is not a gynecological problem, it's a metabolic disorder with gynecological symptoms. You understand? And that's so important because if we don't understand that, then we're just going to be paying attention to the irregular periods and the issues with fertility, and we're going to forget that if we don't address the metabolic aspects of it, the patient's overall health is not going to improve. So, yeah, so on a personal level, I think that's important for patients to understand. Also, from a physician level, it forces us as clinicians to look at the patient in a holistic way, you know, and that's also key. Because it's no longer polysistic, okay, it's an ovarian issue. You see, the PCOS polysistic ovarian syndrome is suggesting that you're focusing on the gynecological organs. But in reality, we're saying that this is a metabolic. So it forces us as physicians to take a more comprehensive approach. And then thirdly, the public awareness of it simply because what's going what I hope will happen from this is that as more and more persons get accustomed to hearing the term, they're also going to come with the expectation that I need to get a more comprehensive assessment. They're also going to begin to look at their wives and sisters and daughters and say, Well, you know what? You know, what are you doing about your nutrition? What are you doing about your exercise? What you're doing in terms of you know, you know, improving your metabolic health. So that's on those three levels that I think it's it really makes an impact, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yes, yes. And we know this because we've had this conversation multiple times. So if you are avid listening of women's health at Kim and Dr. C, you already saw this coming. You already realized that one day they'll have to catch up with us, right? So we're happy for the rebrand, and it leads me into today's topic. And as I've always said, you know, this topic is one that's there to us here because that's kind of where these conversations started with me and Dr. C, with me trying to get answers, and Dr. C sharing his wealth of knowledge and leading to us being like, hey, women need to hear these conversations. So you're ready for today's story time?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

I hope so. I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

For hers for her story. Okay, so I moved countries, new house, new job, new friends, but no family doctor, no doctor at all. I've had POS since my early 20s. I know the drill, irregular cycles, hormones that don't cooperate. My IUD kept things quiet for years, but now I want a baby. And I thought I'd feel excited. Instead, I feel behind or more so panicked. I booked an online appointment requesting an ultrasound. It took me six months to do the ultrasound and get my results. All I got from the doctor was we have your results and the findings are consistent with POS. Goodbye. The call lasted less than 45 seconds. I stared at my phone. What do I do now? Who do I follow up with? I'm in a new country, no GP, no roadmap, just Google and a body that doesn't overlate when it's supposed to. Everyone keeps saying just relax, it'll happen. But what if it doesn't? I just want to get ahead of this. What should I do next? Oh yes. Oh yes. You know, you just said something and it resonated when you were talking about Africa and people not having access to healthcare. No, I'm a pause because I'm coming from Jamaica where we cursed the Jamaica healthcare system. You know how we curse out the Jamaican healthcare system. But let me tell you about the Canadian healthcare system and when you want to get to see a healthcare professional like a gynaecologist. Oh my lord, it is sad. It's really, really sad. So when I read this story, I'm just thinking this person probably lives here in Canada because this sounds too familiar.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

It sounds too familiar. It is really ridiculous. I mean, all the gynecologists here at the local hospital here, they all quit last year. All of them. So yeah, it is the healthcare system, yeah, yeah. The first world, I mean, I don't know what the problem is. I can't speak to the problems, but it is real. It is real. So I can understand.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

It's real. And the truth is, you know, Kim, it's probably going to become a little more common, I'm thinking, because if we think about the fact that POS now, P MOS is a metabolic disorder. And we've said before that it is linked to nutrition, it's linked to lifestyle, right? Then we're going to find that conditions that are linked to lifestyle are likely to become more and more common because we're seeing that shift. Live and work in the Cayman Islands. And before that, you know, I spent decades, many years in Jamaica, right? Or 15 years in the health system in Jamaica. And the data is quite similar. One of the things we've seen is an epidemiological shift in terms of increase in rates of obesity, for example. And obesity is a major thing to look at simply because it is a marker of metabolic health. Okay? So if you look at rates of obesity, you can sim you can mirror what's happening with metabolic health to that. Okay? It gives you an idea. So, you know, we're seeing now where the rates of obesity have been climbing in Jamaica. I remember the Jamaica Elephant Lifestyle Survey, which by now is almost 10 years, is about 10 years old. I don't know if they have done a new one, but at that time, the women of reproductive age were looking at about 70% of them being either overweight or obese. And the in Cayman Islands, they had a step survey that was done here and found the similar findings that you're looking at about 70 to 80% of adults who are overweight or obese. Okay. So you understand now that there is a problem, there's something that's happening. And what's happening is likely linked to our lifestyle. So you're gonna have more and more persons who have problems like PMOS. And so the health the question is the health service prepared to handle it. And what you're telling me now is that clearly the elephant surely in places like Canada, their challenges, you see, because do you have space for that or are you more focused on solving things that you consider to be more important, life-threatening issues, blah, blah, blah. Why is this important, Kim? It's important for us because it's saying to us that what we're doing now is a part of the solution. That it means that the health system and persons like ourselves have to recognize the responsibility that we have to empower women to help themselves, because they may not always be able to access the kind of medical attention and care that they would otherwise have deserved.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah, that's true. So because, like for someone who they won't be able to see a doctor for the next six months again after waiting six months for the ultrasound, they'll be stuck. They'd be using Dr. Google trying to figure it out all on their own when they can actually tune into a podcast from actual medical professionals who can actually help them and give them some solutions. Like, of course, we're gonna do for this person who sent in this message. So she asks what to do next, and we're speaking about a metabolic condition. So we're looking at factors that affect metabolism, right? So we're talking about I'm sure you're gonna get to sleep, diet, lifestyle, stress management. Where should she start? And of course, this is what is the disclaimer, Dr. C?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Well, listen, we're not trying to replace your physicians, guys. And so don't take what we're saying as the right medical advice. It we're educating you, we're empowering you to make the right decisions. Okay, so yes, we're helping you, but you know, we have to say that, you know, we have to make sure you understand that we're not your doctors, we're not okay. It's key, Kim, because you're saying what do you do when you don't have the access to the care that you need? How do you help yourself if you don't feel that you're getting the help that you would need? And a big part of doing that is education, it's having knowledge, it's having the know-how. But you know, to have the know-how and as to what to do to solve the problem, you must first understand the problem.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

And I think and certainly that's where my passion is, is always to start by helping people to understand the problem. Because maybe if I understood what was happening, I'll be more empowered to fix it. So when we talk about polycystic ovarian syndrome, now polyendocrine metabolic ovarian syndrome or PMOS for short. What the real root cause, where does it really start? And it really starts with that hormone called insulin. Insulin is a hormone, guys, that it has many functions, but primarily it's responsible for moving sugar from the blood into your cells and in doing so controlling your blood sugar. Now, what happens in many cases is that you start out with a genetic predisposition to having insulin resistance, right? Meaning that your body for some reason doesn't respond as well to your natural insulin. Then now you combine that with lifestyle, which most of the time involves high consumption of sugar, what, right? Yeah, carbohydrates. And what are carbohydrates, Kim?

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Sugar.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Just food, just foods that are broken down to by the body to give sugar, right? Yeah, so anything that you know when you eat it, it's going to be converted by the body and into your bloodstream as sugar is a carbohydrate. So we have all tons, we have you know, plain sugar itself, whether we call sucrose that we use to mix in to make tea, glucose, to starches, such as you get in your rice and your flour and your yam, your Irish potatoes, yam, right? Your starchy foods, your corn, you know, all of these things that contain substances that break down to form sugar are carbohydrates. And what is really happening in our society today, Kim, is just that we have a chronic overconsumption of carbohydrates. That is the biggest problem nutritionally right now in the world.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Oh, yes, we're eating way too much carbs.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah. I'd love for you to do some research for me. Well, you know, look back to see what glucose consumption was a hundred years ago and compare it to what we're seeing today. And you're gonna find that we are probably consuming, I wouldn't be surprised, almost a hundred times more than we'd have consumed at the turn of the 20th century when we're talking about the 1900s coming up, you see. So, and if you remember now, our bodies have evolved over thousands and thousands of years based on a diet that was very, very low in carbohydrates, all right? At least not especially the simple carbohydrates. So now we're dumping all of it. Oh, you found you found it. That was quick. All right, tell me.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

So in the early 20th century, the average person consumed about 40 to 45 pounds of sugar per day. Today, total per capita sugar and caloric sweetener intake averages 130 to 150 pounds per year, per year. So the and that's uh then that's equivalent to roughly a half a pound of sugar per person every single day.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

You hear that?

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Taking in now.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

You can imagine that half a pound of sugar. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Just think about half a pound of sugar, like think about it in the back. Yes, that's half a pound. That is a lot, that is a lot.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Say that again. So you're I wanted to say it again because I think somebody may have missed that.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

So in the early 20th century, the average person consumed about 40 to 45 pounds of sugar per year. Today, total per capita sugar and caloric sweetener intake averages 130 to 150 pounds annually, that's equivalent to roughly a half pound of sugar per person every single day.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Wow. So you see the point I'm making, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

That yeah, so ultimately, if we really want to get to the bottom of the problem, if you want the simple answer to the question, the issue is just the sugar, it's overconsumption of carbohydrates. That's really what's causing the problem, right? And you understand why, because when that goes into your bloodstream, sugar that's left, excess sugar in your bloodstream actually causes a process called glycosylation, which is harmful to your cells. The sugar actually binds to your cells. The best explanation I could give for this is like if you leave something outside and it crystallizes, you know, we talk about crystallizing.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Like a piece of rubber, you leave it outside after a while, it loses its flexibility and it breaks easily. It's the same part, you know, it's a simple way of explaining what happens with glycosylation. The sugar crystals actually begin to bind to the cell membranes, and now your cells become brittle. It causes injury to the cell membranes, the lining of your blood vessels, and over time causes. Atherosclerosis, thickening of your vessels, that's what leads to the heart disease. That's why diabetics, for example, have high rates of heart disease, the blood vessels become black, peripheral vascular disease, etc.

unknown 22:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

So what your body does as a protective mechanism is that every time you consume sugar and it goes up above your normal blood sugar levels, you secrete insulin to move that sugar from your blood into your cells. And when it goes into your cells, it's stored as fat. Alright? Because fat is a more stable, safer way of storing that excess energy. Now, can you imagine if you're consuming high levels of sugar every single day, your body now has to produce lots of insulin, you see, to catch up with that. And then after a while, you become less sensitive to this excess insulin.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Alright, and that's for two reasons. The first reason is that you get down regulation of some of your receptors. So it's almost like when you get you come into a room and somebody sprays cologne, initially you smell it, right? But if you stay in the room long enough, you stop smelling it. You stop smelling it. So overexposure to any kind of chemical stimulus after a while, you downregulate your response, right? The other thing is that the cells just become too full. So we have a limited number of fat cells. So after a while, the fat cells become full, and it's almost like you're trying to stuff a bag in a stack, and the stack is full, you need more energy to stuff it, right? It's the same thing, you need more insulin to move the same amount of sugar into the cells once you're full. So now you get high levels of insulin. We call it hyperinsulinemia. And when you get high levels of insulin, this excess insulin now is what causes the problem. Right? In the case of P MOST, formerly P cost, is that some women the ovaries are more sensitive to this excess insulin. So this insulin now begins to stimulate the ovaries, receptors in the ovaries. Because you know you have insulin receptors everywhere, right?

unknown 24:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

And the ovaries start producing higher levels of hormones like testosterone, right? And testosterone, you know, is the hormone that causes certain male features. So that's why you notice women who have POS, P MOS, they will have facial hair growth, you know, and then the girl with the mustache, a little hair sticking out. They'll notice that the skin gets more oily. They'll notice that they'll have probably more tendency towards acne. Okay. Some of them will actually start losing hair, right? They get hair loss. So they're gaining here on the face and losing here in the place where it should be, right? And you know, so and that's because of elevated testosterone, right? And then now what happens as well is that the ovaries now, the hormones that are being secreted, affect how the brain controls the menstrual cycle.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

So now you end up having, instead of having that cyclic process where, because under normal circumstances, you know you develop an egg, and as that egg is developing, the lining of the womb is developing to get ready for the pregnancy, should you get pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Now, imagine if that egg is developing and there is something that's affecting it. So the testosterone, for example, is toxic to the eggs. So the eggs develop to a point and then they stop.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

And that just keeps happening.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

And they get trapped.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

So they get yeah, they, you know, so it does so you never get to the point where the egg goes and it ovulates. Ovulation is when the egg is released. So what happens now? You get all of these little eggs over time that are trapped in the phase of development, and that's what gives the OV this polycystic appearance. Because when you look at it under the in in ultrasound, it has many little cysts. You understand? And poly just means many.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Now, if you're not ovulating, it means you're not going through a cycle. So the lining of the womb normally grows, and if you don't get pregnant after 28 days, it sheds and then it starts over again, right? But imagine if you're not ovulating, then it just continues to grow, grow, grow. It doesn't go through that normal shedding. So it just breaks off when it feels like so. Women with peak us will find that they may not see a period or they see it irregularly, or sometimes they'll have bleeding in between the period or prolonged bleeding. So all of these issues are arising, but the root cause is really insulin and insulin resistance.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah, which is why you also mentioned before that it's like pre-diabetes, really. Because, and that's before it became Picos, because you were saying it's a metabolic syndrome. And if you only look at the gynecological symptoms, women end up having women with Picos, now PMOS, they'll end up having diabetes. And the body is basically giving you all these symptoms before saying, Hey, this is where we're heading. But because we're focused on infertility and periods, we miss the warning that we continue to treat with birth control or whatever other treatment we'll use just for the peak for the ovarian part of it, the fertility part of it. And we miss the main issue that we're heading towards diabetes. And so now we have identified that sugar is the leading cause of PMOS. Excess sugar is the leading cause of PMOS because of all that it does to affect your insulin sensitivity. Persons would say, Well, we eat what is available to us, all these packaged food is what they put forward to us. What do we do in terms of diet? Because I've had tips and I've heard tips and things that I've used, like for my breakfast, increasing my protein with my breakfast and my fiber to help with the spike in sugar. What tips can we give these women in terms of how to eat and manage their insulin sensitivity in the context of the world now and what is available for us to eat?

SPEAKER_00 28:08

You know, okay, that that's a fantastic question. And recently I was, you know, uh, did I tell you about the men's health summit that we did here?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

You didn't tell me about it, but I saw a post.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Very salty, very salty.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'll keep you keep you in the loop. Similars.org, you can see Cayman Islands Men's Health and Lifestyle Summit. So I know I'm no men's health doc, but the truth is that there are certain things that I that are near and dear to me personally because of my own experience. And you and you and I have shared that many times before about me, you know, be at being at a stage where you know excelling at life, doing well, but then high color then discovered that high cholesterol, blood sugar is up, you know, diabetic range, you know, having chronic muscular dispain and all these different things going on. I had to try and figure things out and still in the process of changing that. And so, anyway, what we we one of the reasons I was inspired to do the mental health summit was because of my own experience. But while we were there, one of the interviews was with involved a couple of the you know keeps key businessmen here, and one of them owns a supermarket chain. He's the CEO of a supermarket chain. And the question was asked to him how can persons, how can corporations, how can like in his case, a supermarket chain contribute to changing the dynamics of health in a country, right? And uh the good question. But he actually gave a very profound answer because you know the I was thinking that the we were the interviewer was cornering him, but he gave a very good answer. He said, ultimately, we have instructions as to the things we order, the things we buy, the things there are clear instructions given to us as to what we buy. So I was wondering, what do you mean by clear instructions? He says, Whatever people come into the supermarket and demand is what we buy, is what we are forced to purchase.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

You see, it is you know, and when he said that, I realized, in other words, what he was intimating was that he is instructed by the consumer. The consumer demand drives what he and his business by extension provides because he's he wants to meet their demand. Now, so so what he said now why things like the summit are important is because what has to happen is that we have to change the psychology that drives the demand. Yes, and if you change the psychology that drives the demand, then you're going to find that the industry is the corporate, the guys who are in the market are going to have to adjust. You understand? So there's a component that I thought that was a very useful thing to add. But back to your question in terms of what people can do, I think first of all, we have to go through the process of accepting the truth because what we fail to recognize, Kim, is that sugar is one of the most addictive substances on the planet.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Facts, Dr. C. You know that Daniel Fast? Oh my gosh, I remember the first time I did a Daniel Fast. The salt never miss it. You see the sugar. I would eat every fruit, everything, just to give me a pinch of the sugar, and it's not the same sugar, like the additives, because I I would eat like 10 bananas in the day just to do like I'm having sugar. But it doesn't, it's not the same, it's not the same, like the added sugar, it's just not like what you get from your fruit. No, in terms of the level of addiction and to feel that whatever it is, so I can just imagine, and this is from someone who knows better. I can just imagine how hard it is for persons to give up sugar, and that's why, you know, like let's say you give the baby vegetables first, try to give them foods that don't include sugar for the first couple years, so that they don't also start an addiction from so young because it's very addictive.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Absolutely, and you know, we have to start there. We have to start by admitting the facts that what we're dealing with is an addiction or a dependency issue. It is not just nutritional, it's also psychological. You understand? I think when whenever you begin to have a conversation with people about changing the diet, you can almost see it in their behavior. Yeah, they become uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Yes, they guess because now you're telling them that what they're going through is their fault, and why would they want to? No, it's not my fault. I have a condition.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, it's not, yeah, you know, the responsibility. Just give me a pill to help me.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

You need to tell me what to do. Why are you putting it back on me? How rude.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

But also, who which of us would like to admit that we really have a dependency problem? One of the characteristic features, for example, of alcoholic is denial, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Yeah, it's I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yeah, because the alcoholic, you know, once you begin to say, Boy, you know, I think you're drinking too much alcohol. No, no, no, problem. You can't manage it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

I can I do everything. I drive, I do everything, it don't bother me. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

So it's the same thing. We have to recognize that the approach to this thing has to take into account that we're really dealing with an epidemic that is based on addiction and dependence. And the addiction issues in the world today are not just cocaine and marijuana or methamphetamines. We have a serious addiction to sugar, and until we begin to recognize that we have that addiction, we're not going to fix this problem.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Ah, that is true.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

So we start there, I would say. I think we start there. I think we start there, Kim. I like what you said about the babies because there are some things that we may not necessarily be able to fix for ourselves in our generation, but we can fix in the future.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

That is true.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

And the truth is that most of us grew up and our drug pushers were our parents.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Because we got sweets for rewards, like it is something you get candies, yeah. You know, they were like so. Now, when you want to feel good, that's what you want.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Yes, and then all you got snacks, you know. What you're looking at average kids' lunch kit or they still use lunch kits or lunch bag or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

So what's in it?

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Is that you have juice?

SPEAKER_02 34:34

You have a juice box with the you know, the funny thing is you're talking about the supermarket, like here in Canada, all your labels say high sugar, and I'm just thinking about all the packages in my house right now with that label that says high in sugar. So you're right, it's the consumer. So you'll see one of those high sugar label juice in the kids' lunchbox. Yes, you would see probably two snacks, you know. You have to send a fruit, so you probably have a banana and an apple somewhere in there to like for balance.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

They balance things out, balance, yeah. But that's facts, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 35:14

It is the reality. And they ever give them any pocket money, they're gone to the commissary and they're getting more sweets.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yes. So you start out, and your first dealer, the first drug dealer was your parents, and there's no higher authority in their life. So if mommy says this is okay, daddy says this is okay, then it's okay. So we have to start by reconsidering and how we feed our children, and not to mention, even before you get there, the formulas. You know, because you know, a lot of us weren't breastfed, and a lot of women choose not to breastfeed, and babies get formula. Like in the Caribbean, it's very popular for babies to get formula, and the formulas have sugar. You see, so they develop a natural we from a one from where kids, you know, from infancy, we're developing a natural inclination towards sweet drinks, sweet substances, carbohydrate, high carbohydrate diets, and then as we progress through the transition to what's more adult diet, or more mature, it's still high carb because we have it's rice. I mean, rice, rice is we know in the Caribbean we eat a lot of rice, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Oh dear, it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

No, no, there are no Caribbean countries, as far as I know, that produce rice, but we eat rice. But we consume a lot of rice.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

And if we don't eat rice, we say, okay, we're gonna have some pasta.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah, pasta, yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

And if you're not gonna have the rice of the pasta, we have yam, dumpling, banana.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Dumplin, dumpling, who knows.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

For those of you who don't know, dumpling is as floor, and some beginning or some round cartwheel dumpling.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Right, exactly. So now you transition, and I would encourage any one of our listeners, Kim, because I've done it, and that's when you begin to see, when you get the data, you see the problem. Do a food diary for a week or just eat normally and do a food diary. You can't they have them on the phone, these calorie counters, you can go in there putting what you eat each meal. Do it for a week. You're gonna realize that up to the average Caribbean man woman consumes about 70% carbohydrates. 70% of our caloric intake comes from carbohydrates, right? At least 70%. And I'm talking about me, when I was looking at this years ago, as a physician, so I can imagine that persons out there who don't have my medical training, don't have my knowledge, it's probably worse. Yeah, you understand? So we have to start there, I think. The other thing that's important, Kim, is that sometimes we may have to push things, push the envelope. And what I mean by this is that how often we say, okay, let's moderate, let's balance, let's be balanced.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Often.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah. But what you find is that the concept of balance varies from person to person.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Yeah. Because I just told you three snacks and three juice and one banana.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

So I eat fruits in all that, I eat vegetables.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

I eat fruits, I eat fruits, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I eat fruits, you know. So they so we're gonna have to push your envelope because for a couple of reasons. The first thing is that consistency is key. Consistency is key. I mean, how many times have you uh uh have you heard people say that you know I change my lifestyle, uh eating better, you know, but I just not taking off the weight and it not making a difference. Have you heard that?

SPEAKER_02 38:47

I've heard that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

And you know, a lot of the times I used to be very judgmental, you know, man, because we had a simple concept back in the day, even as physicians, that calories in equal calories out, and if calories in exceeds calories out, you're gonna put on weight, and if you want to lose weight, calories in must be less than calories out, right? Am I correct? Yeah, so we feel that okay, we cut back how many calories we eat, we should lose the weight and everything should be fine, but in practice that's not the case. Because if you ever gone on a diet for a while, you'll realize that after a while it does, you might lose a little weight initially, but it after a while it doesn't change, right? Right, and so the question is why? And this is now where the endocrine part of the meaning of the thing comes in, it's so important because what we must understand is that our bodies are a product of our hormones, so how you look, how you feel, right? How you function, those three things are a product of your hormones. So if you want to change how you look, you have to change your hormones. If you want to change how you feel, you have to change your hormones. If you want to change how your body functions, you have to change hormones. It's a big part of it, right? So, why am I saying this? I'm saying this because you may change your diet, but have you changed your hormones? So you might be eating less, but if you're still hyperinsulinemic, for example, yeah, you have high insulin, high cortisol, you may be eating less, but those hormones are still putting in a state that extracts more from what you eat. So, you know, oftentimes that's the challenge. And even when we adopt a lifestyle, a low carbohydrate, high fiber, for example, are you doing it long enough to cause your hormone milieu, your hormone pattern to change to a healthy pattern? And that's really where we miss the boat because most of us have the lack the discipline to maintain these changes long enough to change our hormones.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yes, and we've spoken about changes and building habits on this podcast a lot because a lot of people like they have this conversation and they hear us talk right now, and they go and they say, All right, I'm getting rid of all of the sugar now. I got getting rid of it, I'm not going to have no more sugar. And they start to throw away everything and they say, Okay, water and vegetables and some chicken, that's all I'm going to have. And they do this big switch suddenly. And they tried for two weeks, not eating nothing, nothing, nothing. Just eating the grass and the chicken. And then week three, they come and they say, nothing happened, nothing changed, and they're gone back. For multiple reasons, they'll go back because one, that's not sustainable. They've just gone cold turkey, throw away all the food that they're used to. They don't have anything to sustain the lifestyle that they're trying to build. And that is the quickest way to fail because building habits is psychological. It's not just in the doing, it's also in changing your brain and how your brain thinks and perceives it. You have to get your brain on board. There is no going on empty in the kitchen that's going to make you successful. That is rare. There are some human beings that can do it, but it's very, very, very rare. You have to start simple and small enough for your brain to be comfortable with the change, then you add more, and then you add more, and then you add more. The brain will just say no. Your brain will literally say no and no. There is no willpower that can overcome when your brain says no. You have to introduce the change in a way that your brain can climatize to what you're trying to do and come on board. And once your brain's on board enough, it's full speed ahead. So a change that you can make is that today I am going to have less carbohydrates than I had yesterday. That's small enough for your brain to not say, hey, it's enough for your brain to accept what you're doing. And you gradually decrease your carbohydrates and you replace it. So you're not feeling so hungry because you replace you add something else. So you add protein, you add your vegetables, you add fiber while reducing the carbohydrates. You have to have a plan that's going to help to make it sustainable because you don't get changes with one big action, you get it with small, consistent changes over time that accumulates to a full lifestyle change. And that's where people tend to go wrong. They always like I always joke about my husband and him and though that when I bring him in on the show, but I always joke about my husband because whenever he's going on his lifestyle journey, I remember one time he's just like, Oh, I'm going to start running. You know what that man did? He got up the morning and he ran from where we lived in Portmore at 6E to go straight up Helsha Hill. And if you live in Portmore, you know Helsha Hill. He ran all the way up Helsha Hill and ran back. That was the last day he. Ran because while it was a valiant effort, it made his brain said never again because he was in so much pain afterwards that it was like, No, your body, your brain help is there to protect you, you know. So if you do something like that, your brain is gonna say, This is dangerous, your brain's not going to feel like it's safe, so it's not going to be something that you'll be able to do again. The next time he picked up running, he did it differently. He went out and he's like, Okay, I'm going to run for 20 minutes. Wherever that takes me, I'll stop. And he did that. And within no time, he was running for an hour. But slowly but surely he did that and reduced his time eventually. Once he got into the habit, and he started working on his timing, how long, how fast he can go in that time, and changed it and it worked because that's just how you have to program your brain to build habits. And I think while we're giving these advices to people, we don't want you to go in the kitchen and throw everything that's a high sugar on one go. It would be good, but it's sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

I don't want them throwing it away, but I think the point I think you know, because what and I'm coming back to what you're saying because I think you you put down some power points there that we need to develop on. But the reason why I said it is because I know something happens to me after dark, you know, when it gets to the night, something happens. Yeah, you know, I'll be fine during the day, but when it touches night time, every day gremlins, you know, the worms in my belly start roaring. And if something is in the house, chances are it's going to be consumed. So, so one of my approaches and is to make sure that there's nothing in my home, in my fridge, that if I eat it, I'm going to regret it.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

In the morning when the sets come back.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

In the morning, you know, yeah, come in the morning. Oh my god, what did I do? At least if I over-eat, let me overeat something that's healthy. Yeah, because it's a real struggle. And I think it's important when we're giving health advice to for persons to understand that we are human beings just like you. Oh, yes. We're in a struggle just like you. You know, you know, relapse is a part of the thing, Kim. You know, it is where you know, failure is a part of success, and we have to embrace that. But I wanted to develop on the point, you made a point about the psychological component. You know, you said the psychological, you spoke about the steps, you spoke about the stacking, and I think those are the three important things. The psychological component is key because anytime you're dealing with any habit, whether it is drug abuse or what or any kind of habit, you must have a why. You must have a why. Why am I why do I want to change? You understand? People who stop taking drugs, for example, invariably when you ask them, there's a why. Either their children inspire them, you know, they saw what's happening to your kids and they say, I'm gonna do it for my kids.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

You know, a lot of the times when I'm seeing pregnant women and I want to get them to do something, I say, This is for your baby, not for you. And then it gives them the why, and they they will change. You'll be amazed to see how a woman who otherwise could not change her diet will change her diet to make sure the baby is okay. So you have to have a why, and ultimately we have to look at ourselves and say, Well, listen, do I love myself enough to sacrifice for the future me?

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

You see, because a lot of the times we are focused on the present me, but the future me is who you really need to be looking at because the present me is invariably an enemy to the future you, and so consequently, you have to be able to see the future you and make decisions in the present that are going to secure you in the future.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Precisely.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

You understand? So, you know, so that the why is important, and then you know, you mention about the small changes because ultimately habits are just what happens that whatever you do over and over again, your body and your brain begin to say, Okay, that's what you want me to do, I'm gonna adapt to do it. So, like I like what you spoke about. I remember when I started my own health journey, I couldn't, you talk more running, Kim, just walking with a problem. You know, and I said, Okay, I'm gonna start walking. And I started 10 minutes first, then 15, then 30, then it went up, it went up to hours. You get what I'm saying? So absolutely, I like that idea of small incremental change and then just stacking it. And also, the yeah, so the point another point that I think is key, and I don't want people to miss this, is that intensity does not replace consistency.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

It does not, never have, never will.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

And that works for nutrition, it works for exercise, it works for everything. Intensity does not replace consistency. So you mentioned that you know, I don't want to trouble Mr. Reed too much, but you mentioned that you know he started out intense. Very yeah, and how many times I said to the patient, okay, we're gonna change. Oh no, I'm gonna join the gym. And then I hear that I get nervous because you know, you know, I'm gonna start running. No, you can't run, you're 250 pounds, you're 300 pounds. If you run, you're gonna mess up your knees. You get what I'm saying? Start walking, start swimming, start doing something, you know. So absolutely. Yeah, well, we're almost out of time, Kim. So, what are the key things we're gonna be? What are the key things?

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Yeah, well, for me, my key takeaway will definitely be reducing the sugar. I mean, you know, I think as we get older, my optimism dies a little bit, I'm not going to lie. So I feel like a lot of our generation is far gone with this sugar thing. Like it's far gone, but for sure, as a parent, I'm definitely going to look in that lunch kit. And I know they've already developed an addiction to sugar, but I don't want to be that drug dealer who is affecting their future lifestyle and their future health. So since I control what they eat because I'm the one buying the food that don't work, then I'm going to make sure that they're eating things that's beneficial to them and their bodies. I think, you know, there's while working on myself, I know for a fact that we can influence our kids. So for sure, looking at what we're doing for the future generation so we can help them while we're helping ourselves. Secondly, and this is something that I have done, and I have been very consistent with this, is that after a certain time of the day, not having anything with sugar, no carbohydrates. Like if it's not protein, if it's not nuts, if it's not fiber or fruit or vegetable, I'm just not having it at that time. So after by the time I come home from work, it's a wrap for me because I can feel it, not just in terms of my symptoms, like I can literally feel it if I have something sweet. Like when everybody else in the house having ice cream for dessert, not me because I can feel the difference in my body if I do that, and it wasn't easy to come by doing that, but now, even if I go out for dinner, I'm not. It took a while to get there, but I get there and you want, you know, once you build a habit now, you know, you don't want to break your streak, you know, like the games, like you're duolingo, and you have your high streak, you don't want to really break it. It's one of those things. I mean, it might seem like nothing, because I'm not telling you that I don't have anything sweet. I'm not saying that at all. I still do have sweet things, but that simple change of just not having it at certain times of the day, I've seen a big difference in how my body responds to that. So you might not you might say, I'm not strong enough to give up sugar, but there must be something that you can do and something that you can change to help you to get there to one day where you're not so dependent on sugar. And lastly, again, it would have to be that intensity will never be consistency. I am one of those all or nothing people that I had to really break, like I had to fight with it, like is either doing everything, machine. And I remember one day I was going to start working out, and I'm like, I'm going to buy a new sneakers and I'm going to get all these things. And my friend said to me, Why? And I'm like, you know, to motivate me to do it. It's like, if you need the sneakers and all these things to do it, you're not going to stick to it. I'm like, what do you mean? No, man. After I spend my money, I sure. And of course I didn't, because that's just not how it works. It is you start and you give yourself something to work towards. Okay, if I be consistent with X, Y, and Z, then I'll get myself this treat. There's no way the treat can come before the action because you will not stick to the action. Absolutely not. So you don't have to be all or nothing. You start with what you have, you start where you are, and you gradually build on that, and that's the way you'll see success in building habits and lifestyle changes.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

I love it, Kim. I love it. Perfect. Well said. I don't even need to add anything to that. I think what we need to do is probably the next show. If we have the chance, begin to dig a little bit deeper into the actual interventions and talk a little bit more about the lifestyle stuff, the nutrition, the exercise. I would love for us to do that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Because that's very interesting, too, in terms of the things that you can do to help your body with this help with your incident sensitivity.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Absolutely. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's it one more time. Thank you for staying with us for another episode of the Women's Health Podcast with Kim and Dr. C. I am Dr. C signing off saying goodbye until next time. Live your happier, healthier life. Bye from us.