Nobody Prepares You for What a Baby Does to Your Marriage

Nobody tells you that having a baby might be the thing that breaks a good relationship.

Not because you're bad people. Not because you don't love each other. But because nothing, not the gender reveal, not the baby shower, not the maternity shoot prepares you for what actually happens after that baby arrives.

In this episode of the Women's Health Podcast, Dr. C and Kim go deep on the parts of new parenthood nobody puts on Instagram. The identity crisis that hits when the attention shifts from you to the baby overnight. Why so many women stop feeling sexy after pregnancy and why it has nothing to do with their partner finding them unattractive. 

Why men think they're an 8 when they're truly a 5. The role of ego, validation, and appreciation in keeping a relationship alive. And what both partners actually need, but rarely ask for, in that postpartum season.

They also get into the bigger picture: how the environment a child is born into shapes who they become, why boys and girls are raised so differently and what that costs us later, and why relationships that survive the baby years don't do it by accident.

This is the conversation your prenatal class never had. 🎙️
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 🎙️ IN THIS EPISODE
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00:00 - Welcome & catching up
 04:00 - The power of validation - why men will do almost anything to feel important
10:30 - Appreciating your partner: what it costs you and what it earns you
17:00 - Submission, leadership, and what most men get wrong about both
26:00 - Boys vs girls: how we're raised differently and why it matters in marriage
38:00 - Single parent homes, father figures, and the domino effect on society
46:00 - Are you actually ready to have a baby? The questions nobody asks
55:00 - The identity crisis after birth - "I wasn't Kim anymore, I was just a mom"
1:02:00 - Why women lose desire after pregnancy - and it's not what men think
1:10:00 - Postpartum depression, body image, and the six-week myth
1:17:00 - What men can actually do - and why showing up beats performing
1:24:00 - Empathy, communication, and meeting each other where you are
1:31:00 - Final thoughts and wrap up
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 📌 KEY TAKEAWAYS
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✔ Validation is not weakness - it is one of the most powerful tools in a relationship
 ✔ Men think they're an 8. They're usually a 5. Understanding this gap changes everything
 ✔ The identity shift after having a baby is real, sudden, and barely talked about
 ✔ Women stop feeling sexy postpartum because of how they see themselves - not because of how their partner sees them
 ✔ Postpartum depression and intimacy issues are connected to identity loss, not just hormones
 ✔ Submission works when there is genuine leadership - most men are asking for it without offering it
 ✔ The environment a child is born into shapes their psychology, biology, and future relationships
 ✔ Preparing for a baby means preparing the relationship, not just the nursery
─────────────────────────────

Tell us in the comments, what part of this conversation hit closest to home? 👇

Follow Dr C on Instagram @drc_thewomenshealthdoc.
Follow Kim on Instagram @thewomenshealthphysio
Also check out Beyond the diagnosis with Kim and Dr C. Mondays at 8pm on Nationwide90fm (Youtube)

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

But I agree with the point that the point you're making is profound that you can't ignore a man's ego. And I think that is where a lot of women lose out. And I say this all the time women don't understand the power they have. And a lot of the times women complicate relationships because of their unwillingness to humble themselves and accept certain realities. Right. It is so easy, Kim. I can tell you it is so easy to keep most men satisfied. It is ridiculously easy. Because their ego is so important to them. And you know, the women have such an important role in validating men. That's why men do a man of dangerous things, and you know, because they're really trying to get your attention, you know. They don't, you know, you can't tell me to say I want to jump off a cliff and can't swim. But it means a lot to him to know that you think of him as being brave and fearless. It means a lot, you know, and you may feel it, but it's until you say it, yeah, he does it and not just say it to him, but say it around other people. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

It don't mean a thing true because you know, as I I was in the accident the other day, and I was saying to him, I was saying to him, I don't remember what he did. Oh, he did that. He went to the paymaster for me yesterday, and I really appreciated it. It was random, you know. I was at home worried about how I'm gonna pay this insurance, and he just did it without me having to ask. And you know, we can't take it for granted, like even my husband, I'm supposed to do that. But I actually said to him, Thank you, I really appreciate you. You've been so supportive to me during this time, and I really appreciate it. And he felt so good, you know. He was like, Oh my gosh, I feel so good that you're saying that. And you know, sometimes we take the kindness of your husband for granted because you're like, Oh, it's my husband, he's supposed to be kind, he's supposed to do this, but it's not gonna kill you for the tongues, it's not gonna kill you for appreciating, like it takes nothing out of you to just be like, Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I appreciate it. It really doesn't, and when it comes to things like expressing gratitude, it's for both sides, both sides feel the same way about it.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

You won't be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

When when he cooked, when he cooked the one here, the food tastes really good in a behavior.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

You want yeah, no, but come Kim. If my wife cooks and I eat, she will say, Leroy eating too much, I eat and go back for more. And she said, Eat too much, right? Don't eat, you over eating. But if I don't finish eating the food, you know, and I'm gonna leave it out. I mean, it one time I remember like putting the rest of it in the fridge and say, Okay, I have something. And she's like, What? What's happening? You don't like it, and I'm saying, babes, it's fine. I just you know, whatever because you want all of us have that innate desire to be validated and appreciated, and part of the reason why our partners become our partners is because they compete something, you know. So I'll give you, you know, I'll give you an example and then I'll go back to the point I was making about men is that I remember when I was when we just got married, and probably a couple years into the marriage, I used to I think of certain things like very romantic, you know. So I'm saying, okay, breakfast in bed. So I get up on a Sunday morning and met my wife, you know, breakfast and I get up and make a steam fish and thing, or buy the fish from Saturday and steam fish and all these things. And you know, she wake up and then here, yeah, I'm delivering it, and I'm thinking, yeah, you know, I'm the greatest, you know, I'm doing the best husband possible. Wait, well, these that's a problem, you see. That's why those kind of things that women think about now, you know. So I she I deliver now my best performance, and she's like, you know, it's kind of heavy, man. I really like heavy food in the morning, and you know, probably so I said, What? So make a table, crackers and cheese, and I'm pissed, and I'm telling you, Kim, I will tell you this.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

We've been my breakfast in red again.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Never, no, I have made breakfast in red again, but it's never been no fantastic thing, you know. I mean, the closest it has gotten to anything great is probably like an omelet or something because I'm like, okay, if you don't appreciate the effort that I put into this thing, you know, and even now for me it's a joke, I'm not upset, it's funny now, but the point I'm trying to make is that you have the validation is so important, and no matter what anybody says, no matter how strong they are, no matter how you feel that they're winning in every aspect of their life and they're successful, they still need it. And no matter what the entire whatever the world tells them, it's a difference when you as the person tells them. You get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

If I go there and I give a talk, you want your wife did good.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, it don't matter who tell me, say, oh yeah, you know, you did a good sermon or you did a good talk or whatever. You don't have to hear from it. I'm most yeah, I'm most nervous. You know, the most nervous I've been speaking at a at a conference was when my wife was in attendance. I mean, I talk all the time, different academic forum, hundreds of people, this whatever, and I'm fine. And I remember one and the one, I can't remember which conference it was, and she was in attendance, and I'm like, actually feel very nervous. Nervous, you know, it is true. You see, it's it's true.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

It's the same thing why I don't like when they tell you don't tell your kids good job. Like I can't get behind that type of parenting. They're like, oh, don't tell them good job because then you set them out to be people pleasers and they can't validate themselves, and it's garbage. Because if Kai does something and I don't say it's a good job, she really truly believes that it wasn't a good job. And and I always like I do tell her good job, and I do tell her I'm proud of her, but I do also tell her that how do you feel about it? Are you proud of yourself? Because I'm still trying for her, I'm still trying to help her to validate herself. But the truth is, as human beings, we need validation, and at this point, the parent is the one who validates you when you're married, it's your husband, but you seek your parents' validation, even as a grown person, you seek your parents' validation. So I cannot see why you would deprive a child of that. And I'm sure in a few years you're going to hear the reverse of this. You're going to hear, oh, these kids are like this now because their parents did not validate them.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

No, it's important. And then, you know, if we go back to this conversation where we started with men, a lot of the times infidelity, relational problems is just as is as simple. The fix is just as simple as, honey, oh, you did a good job. Oh, you know, I'm proud of you. You know, I think you're a good man. You know, I think you know, you know, I really appreciate the fact that you work and you try and provide for the family. I really appreciate the fact that you come home at night and you're not out there. You know, it's simple about reinforcing the character traits that you want. And you we don't you don't understand the power of that. And not nagging. Right, yeah, right, that's the point. So the power is so great. So, like, for example, so something as you know, something as simple as give it this, and I won't tell her, you know. So I mean my wife will go to supermarket and come home and part of the car and taking stuff out of the car, and she's and like, you know, we have 10 bags, and we have take up 10 of them, five in a one and a five in the other one. They can't marry it. I'm saying, yeah, well, maybe they will get married. Oh, you're so strong, you know, he's strong, and you know, I'm going on like yeah, you know, matter, you know. But the truth is the truth is, if there was another 11th bag, I would try and pick it up too. Because somehow it taps into something that is innate and the male ego, it taps into it, and the Lord created us with it, and that's why He said create a help meet, and you know, women have so much power in terms of you know how relationships go. They don't understand. So, you know, but I think we're in a culture where women, many women see doing things like that, appreciating them and elevating them, building them up is seen as something negative. You're being submissive, you're being this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I think innately women want to submit. I feel good when my husband does something and I don't have to think about it. I'm like, oh I don't have to think about anything, and like I can just be here and just be his woman, just be cute and pretty, and you know, just be his woman or do something for him, and I don't have to think about like if he plans something and I really just have to show up cute, like it feels good, even like babe, just put on your clothes and come on, and you just it feels good, you know. It doesn't feel like you're bossing me around or something ugly, or it feels good, but the problem is that the men who are out there shouting about submission, they don't really have much to offer you or any reason for you to want to submit. Right, they're not leading you down a path where you want to go or you want your family to go and say, hold up, stop it to submission, stop it to what it to watch.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Whoa, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

So I think that is the problem. I don't think the problem is submitting. I think men think we don't want to submit, but the truth is men aren't they aren't giving us anything to submit to, and that is the true problem. I mean, every now and again they probably hit the nail on the head, but most times they're so far off, you know, not leading a family, they're not there with their children doing the fatherly roles that they're supposed to do. They're just not present. You have men who they're not even there with the kids that come home when they want bars up, like sir. You even be full. Like, it is hard for women to submit to that. How are you gonna submit to a man when he doesn't spend any time with his kids? He barely provided, he's looking for your 50. If you don't have 50% of your income, the house can't run, none at all. Even if he have extras, he still wear year 50. Like, it's not like say I help out because oh, it's not here and he just helping out the cars like him budget around year 50, and if you're 50, there come in problems in other houses, like that nobody's not gonna want to submit to that.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Yeah, I think that's interesting when you make the point that you know about men not creating something to follow or to submit to. When you talk about leadership, and I had this conversation with a friend of mine recently, and you know, complaining that women nowadays don't want to submit to their husbands and things, and I think what you're saying is so true. What do you understand being the head to be? What does head mean to you? Because people talk and and men, it's funny, men who don't believe don't follow the Bible in any other way when it comes to relationships. The God said the man is the head of the house. I mean, yeah, God also said he must have one wife, you know. So expect you, he must be faithful, and you know, if you're you know, if you're it tells you all other things apart from that, but the point is what does that head mean? Because when you read the scripture and you know, look at Ephesians chapter 5, for example, where the submission argument comes up, we forget that the Bible says also. Paul said to them that a man should love his wife, even as his own flesh cherished her, as Christ loved the church and gave himself for the church. So now, are you at the place as a man where you have made up your mind that listen, I'm going to love and cherish this woman, I would take care of myself and would be willing to die for her. Okay. And that comes before the submission. That is what Paul says. Paul says that you love your wife and as your own flesh, as Christ loved the church and gave himself, and then he goes on to say, Women, submit yourself, your husband, yourself, submit yourself with your husband.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

But the man who is doing that is very easy to submit to.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Ah, and that's what people understand. That's what they miss. Because, you know, if you have a man who is coming out and grinding and doing everything that is going to be required to satisfy and supply your needs and take care of you, and he's gonna be willing to step in front of a gun or a moving vehicle for you and do whatever, then something is wrong with you if you don't want to submit to that kind of person.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

You know, that is true. And that's one point I also find that a lot of men they don't have any direction, so they're leaders and they have no direction, like them they know them plans for the future. And if you're a woman who knows exactly where you want to go, and you're with a man who um could have died, yes, how you gonna submit to that? There's no leadership in that, like we will lead me to like where we're gonna lead me to.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

I like that point because what you're saying is that and how I would use it is if we're going to look at the body, you know, the scriptures oftentimes Paul himself uses the example of the body to explain a lot of things in scripture. When you talk about the head, the head is a seat of consciousness, all right. You have many members, but all of them look to the head. You know, when you think about your head, the brain, and all that is involved there, it is what absorbs information from the world and puts everything else in its rightful place for the body to function. Right. Okay. So your head sees, interprets information, and makes sure, okay, look there, something job, move your foot out of the way. You understand? Put your hand there. So put it so the head makes sure is that everything else is functioning and protects everything, even though it may not necessarily be doing everything itself, but it has that responsibility, and so so I get so what you're saying now is that you know, if you're the head of the house, how are you securing the well-being of the family? Of the family, how are you making sure that something not dropping on our toe? That we're not getting hit by a car, that we actually are nourished and fed, you know, and put on our clothes, and we're not walking up and down street naked. How are you you get what I'm saying? And so now, whenever you have a head that is not functioning, you know, whether a stroke or something happens that impairs the function, guess what happens? The limbs don't work how they're supposed to work, right? And a lot of the times, the reason we see problems in the home, in relationships, women may not be doing men's house, they know what they want to do. Probably because the head isn't good. The head not, you know, there's a problem with how it's functioning, and if they're not functioning, then that explains why things are not the way they are ought to be.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Like, I think you need some husband series, you know. Like, you know, that's a church, you know, offer that a church, some series. What we have is of couples with treats, but what probably we need to do some man, you need like husband boot camp, you know, they can understand because I really don't think men understand what is required of them, and I think a lot of times I don't like blaming mothers. I don't, but growing up, I was my mother's first child, and I was the only child for about 10 years before my brother came along, and the expectations that my mother had of me, she didn't have that for my brother. Like, I was trained to be so independent, like when I went to college, my parents didn't know nothing. My apply for my own student alone, my friend, my own guaranteor, my work, my everything. My brother went to college, mommy. The other day my mommy called me and said, Oh, my brother never signed up for the payment plan, and I have to go to UAM. I said, What do you mean? Make him figure it out. Like, it don't make any sense because when I was growing up, when I was going to college, one day I had to mess my mother like, Mommy, I know you're not paying for anything for me now, but you can at least ask me how I'm doing, you know. You can at least ask me how I manage, you know. Like, I was really upset with my parents because everybody else's parents check in, and then after that, my parents didn't check in, but then to see how she grew her son, it was completely different. So I can imagine him as a husband needing a woman to lead him because that's exactly what his mother did. And in the responsibility that girls have from a young age, boys just don't have that level of responsibility, they just don't. So you start your girls off from a very young age to be independent because I guess from back in the days, women who weren't independent would probably end up, you know, being abused by men, so they probably grew the daughter so that they wouldn't end up in that kind of fate. I don't know where it comes from, I'm just speculating here. But women are girls, little young girls are designed to be independent so that they don't have to fall to the mercy of men. But men are allowed, little boys are allowed to be children, and boys will be boys and enjoy the childhood, and they get a lot of time to grow up. While as girls, we're forced to grow up very young. So then now when we're looking for a partner, they seem very immature, they're just not there yet, and you don't have the time to wait for them to catch up. You don't, you're like, that's gonna slow me down, that's gonna slow my future down if I have to wait on you to get where I am because I was sent out in the world from a very young age to get it and to figure it out on my own. So that's one of the problems that I find, and it's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Well, I think that's true because I think upbringing invariably is going to influence our behavior behavior as adults. I think some of the issues come from one single parent homes setting, which is becoming more and more common.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

You feel bad blaming the single mom, but it's the truth, though. It's not their fault, but it's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

I don't even know if what we're saying is blaming. I think it's a reality that parents, women make different parents from men, and men make different parents from women, and it's not an indictment of either one, it's just instinctively we're designed that way. So, like I was fortunate to grow up in a home where both my parents were married. I was born into that. So I have always had the opportunity of having both parents. But I can tell you the approach into parenting was different. So yeah, so you know, a mother was always the one that was kind of more present, more involved. You know, she's the one that gets upset emotionally very easily, but at the same time, she's very, she's the one that's nurturing, you know. So she's but then my father now is more was more the stable one, you know, the consistent one, the one where you know, we check him Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is the same. You know, you know exactly what you're gonna get. You know, one of the things that with him was that let's take, let me give you an example of how you'd see how the parenting is different. I would go to school, let's say I go to school and I had you know some hard exam or something, or something it was rough and I was you know struggling with it, and I got to mother and thing, what I said, why so why the Trubbian, you know, how you know and we'd have a long conversation about you know what is happening and why I feel like there's injustice and why you know things are unfair and so forth. I take the same situation and go to my father, and the conversation is over in 10 seconds because he's gonna stop, he's gonna look at me, and he says, All right, listen, son, what men have done, men will do, and that's it. That's the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Well, guess what? I've heard it so many times I had to figure out what it means, you know. But that's the conversation, you know. And at the time I just found it to be so annoying. I found it like you know, I want you to empathize with me, I want you to be able to, you know, feel what I'm feeling and be but me, be on my side. But the part, but as I when I've grown into a man now, I've appreciated that because what he's saying is that listen, stop making excuses. The world does not wait for you to make excuses, the world does not applaud excuses, the world applauds results, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Nobody is gonna care, doesn't care about the process, you know. Yeah, yeah, people want people applaud results, people not looking oh, you know, you're baking a cake and you're up all night and you spend the whole time up make this and put this with soak and that you know, women will go into all that. But guess what? At the end of the day, what the world is gonna ask of you is how good is the cake? It tastes good or not. It pretty much all night, if it don't taste good, it does not, you see. So what that does, it kind of builds a sense of a more tenacious resilience type of personality, the type of personality that's not easily offended, that doesn't quit, the type of personal that shows up day after day and doesn't call in sick every few days because you feel depressed or you feel down, but you're showing up to work day after day, results-oriented, personality, that's what it builds, and unfortunately, it is not that women do not want that for their boys, but their instinct as a mother girls that's well truth is no here's and I'll tell you why. It is the same to a point. I'll tell you what happens. What happens with the girls is that you end up trying to live vicariously through them, so because you see them as you You, you start to say, Well, listen, you know, I don't want to happen to you what happened to me. I don't want you to become want to happen to you what I've seen happen to other women. And everybody, each woman has come to a conclusion in her mind as to how the world works. And based on the conclusion, that is how she's going to raise her daughter. So for example, you have one woman who realizes that you know she has been and she has seen women abused and taken advantage of because they were dependent on men. So she develops a resilience, she overcomes and she decides that listen, I'm not going to, I don't want my daughter to depend on no man. So she's going to raise her daughter to be aggressive, to be the type of woman that don't need nothing from the man. You don't depend for the man. Go get your own. Blah blah blah blah blah. And that's one subset of women. You have another subset of women who you have less less and less of them, but they their mentality as well. A man must mind you. Pretty her up.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Make sure she can't pretty her up. Make sure she dresses nice. Fix up her hair. So she can catch the man.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

And so she raises her daughter like that. The baby doll thing. Make sure she knows she smiles even when she knows her smile. She knows how to do whatever it is to attract. So a lot of the times parenting comes from your own experience. And it is a mi it comes your flavor, because every parent has a flavor. The flavor is going to take into consideration who you are, whether female or male, what your background is, and so forth. But at the core, we can't deny the fact that whether a mother or father, that is going to change the flavor.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

That's going to change the flavor. And I think what we have done, what has happened in society, is that we have somehow put our woman in an unfair position. Where a woman is trying to be something that she is not. No matter how mother and the father. And I don't think it's fair to expect her to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

It isn't. And I don't even know. There's no quick fix to that. It's just to value family and to understand the importance of both the roles of both parents. And where you don't have it, because if you're a single mom, most of the times it's not your choice, it was the intention to be a single mom. But to try to get that father figure for the child. I mean, wherever you can get it. If it's at the church from a pastor, elder, deacon, from an uncle, from somebody, just ensuring that they have that relation with, especially if a boy, making sure that they have that relationship with a father figure. Because it does affect them, it affects how they grow up and the type of person that they'll be.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

It's sad because that's where now you get into this situation where there is no head. Because you have men who, as you said, are accustomed to being led by women. They're accustomed to women solving their problems. Something happened in school, you call your mother, your mother comes and she cuss off the teacher, she cuss off the boy with fight. You know, that is so they're accustomed to their problems being solved by women who go tell my mother, and your mother does whatever. You know, when you know when I go to school and somebody comes and say them, I'm gonna fight me or whatever. If I tell my mother, it's a different reaction when I tell my father. My boy, me no one much up my son. My father is like what? So you know back because you know, and even though him now tell me directly, say yo, do your thing, you know, you have to learn, you're gonna have to because the world, Kim, is a cold place, cold, you see, that is a cold place.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Um you know it's I get that we want men to have more feelings and to express their feelings. We don't want them to hide their feelings, and that's why you need a balance, you need the balance of having the mother that they can talk to and help them through it, but also the father who can say, Hey, the reality is this the world isn't going to stop and pet you and baby and wait for you to get up and brush off, and the world keeps going no matter what is happening, the world does not stop for a second. So it's important, mothers are important, and they have their place, of course, the nurturing and they allow you to express yourself and they allow you to be vulnerable, right? But then you have your father who is yeah, son, a segue, yeah. Men men will do what men have done.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

What men have done, men will do, and what he meant by that. What he meant by that is that for every obstacle that you are dealing with, somebody has overcome it already, right? And if somebody has done it already, you can do it too, you can do it. You get what I'm saying? The only excuse you have is that if you can't run 9.58 seconds in 100 meters, because only one man has ever done that, you know. You know, but whatever it is that somebody else has done already, you can do it. You see? So don't stop making excuses. Figure out how you're gonna get it done. That's what you need to do. That's so he could have given me a half an hour speech, you know. One statement, what men have done, men will do. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

And it makes you work out on your own, yeah. Again, you know, because that's what life is. That is what life is.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

You know what's funny? I'll tell you what's funny, Kim. And you know, people will say, and it sounds hard, but men need that. And if you do, if it's not provided for them, they're gonna find it. That's the reason why you say our boys running into gangs, why do they get into sports and they thrive in sports, they thrive in the military, they thrive in the police force, they're thrive in these areas where it's not soft, it's rough, you gotta figure it out, and sometimes, unfortunately, and because they need that, they need as men that kind of because we are designed, and people want to ignore biology, that's what makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Okay, you know, uh we're not the same, the makeup is different, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Not the same, and your women get wonder how can I love my son and raise him and do everything for him, and then now when him all of a sudden he gets to teenage years and he's hanging out with this crowd of boys, and now I listen to one man say him, you know, he's out of control, you can't understand why. It's because innately he has to get that, and if he doesn't get it, if he doesn't have somebody to hold him accountable, if he doesn't have somebody to say, listen, who you know, hold him responsible for what he's doing and his actions, he's gonna find somebody. And unfortunately, because the men are missing from the homes, the boys look for it in the streets, then that's what's happening in our society. If you can't find a man in the home, he's gonna find a man in the streets, and I'll tell you the truth: it's not just the men, it's also the girls, but it's in a different way. You get what I'm saying? Because what tends to happen is the father's love for the women, it's the father's love that exists. Yes, yes, the security, the security of having a father, just to just have somebody, a protector, a provider, and when that is not there, they won't find it, and that's the reason why you know women, you see women in all of these relationships, why would you get involved with a man that you know say he's a gunman or a gang man or a gangster, is the bad man I'm not with you because something inside of her is looking for that protector, that provider, and when you're dealing with persons with those character traits, they come across with a certain level of confidence. And if a woman is not schooled to understand the difference between being responsible, being strong, and being and having bravado, she will mistake bravado for strength, right? And so when she sees a man out there and him loud and him or is abusive or is you know he's a risk taker, she sees that as strength. Yeah, because she's programmed and wired for that. Well, you know, remember back in the old days, you know, when the man would go to hunt, the woman will stay home, the men will have to go out to hunt and they'll fight and they'll protect. So a woman is going to look for instinctively a man who has the capacity to do those things, you see. So when she sees a man out there and him, you know, bad boy, if she has never been taught at the home to realize that true what true strength is, she's gonna see that. And when a man put him hand upon her and beat her, and yes, she might feel the pain and she might be upset about being abused, but guess what? He's strong.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Well, yeah, I mean, there's a song literally called She Love Gunman. Like that's the song, that's the name. And that sense to me, because I grew up with a father. My father, I spent more time with my father than my mother growing up. So I had that, you know. I definitely had that, and that's probably why I am like I am the way I am, because my father, you know, you know, I didn't have the mother. Oh no, my father was literally like, if you're not independent, managing. And that's literally what he said all the time. Like, and whenever because I was a fasty child growing up, you know. I was very fasty. So my father used to tell me say, you see, anyhow you find the husband though, you're fasty, it must beat you. So I'm like, Mana need the husband. But I was fasty, I was faced like a mouth to mouth little girl. So he always told me that to say, yeah, man, I gotta beat you. Yeah, so I'm like, you feel like you need to be independent.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, it's complex, and I think we'll you know a lot of our way in the society just when relationships fall apart. I know the conversation started with us talking about relationships and how what things that people can do to hold them together. But when relationships fall apart, it creates this domino effect that goes on for generations and generations, and that's the reason why we have to work so hard to preserve the relationships that we have to value them, we have to pray for our partners, we have to try and do whatever we can do to hold them together because it's not really just about us, it's about the people we impact.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Truly, and I think it starts from getting into the relationship, and that's why there are things you need to know before pregnancy. Because before you get in this relationship with that person, is this person someone who can raise my child with? Is this one who even if the relationship don't last, because that can happen too? Is this someone who is mature enough for us to put our differences aside and co-parents? Who is this person, you know, knowing all of that before deciding that hey, I want to carry on, have this man seed. It is more than just being a baby mother or just having a child because they're cute and they're trending on Instagram, you know, or a box to tick. It's a life that you're responsible for. And I always say the worst thing that could happen to me is to have somebody bring a child into this world who will add more pain and suffering to the world. Like as a mother, I would deal with having a child who turns a gunman or abuse women, or you know, it would just pain my heart to know that even if it's not directly my fault, it would still hurt. So before you even got here, your partner is very important. Your psychological well-being is also important because you have a child now, you couldn't manage it and know your checkouts, and each child is basically raising themselves. So think about because as you say, it's a domino effect.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

It is funny because I find that I mean, naturally, most people don't go through the process of thinking about these things before you know having a child. It's over 66%. And the statistics say that about it is more of pregnancies are unplanned, you know. You know, it has happened, it's just oops. I did it again, you know, right? So, you know, it happens, but the point that you're making is recognizing that children, you know, are really our gift to the world. It is what we will leave, part of the legacy we leave for the world. And um, if we view it that way, then it means that our motivation is should be to ensure that we are leaving the world a better place than it was when we came. Exactly. And um, and and therefore, our investment is going to be towards making sure that these children, this child is the best that he or she can be. And that starts before the child is born by creating the framework. You know, if you look at scripture, for example, and how God created the world, men man was made on the sixth day, according to scripture, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

And if you notice, by the time man was made, before the world and everything that he needed was there, exactly, exactly, and that's why I can't understand when people because you're married, that is the first step. They're like, Oh, where's the baby? Oh, you're married how long now? Where's the baby? Because I'm still I'm at day two, I'm still making the plot, the water with the fish and the sea creatures. Muna reach a day six, eight, leave me alone.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yeah, it's so important because it's for the child coming into an environment of stability, of provision, of security, you know, of safety, you know, safety, security, stability are key ingredients to growth. You see, because if that's not there, then you create an unstable child.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Because a child is coming in an insecure, unsafe, an unstable environment. Exactly. You create a child who is unstable, who feels unsafe, and who oftentimes develops being insecure. And when you and I will tell you that the majority of problems that you're seeing from persons, adults in the world come because of one of those three things, or all three. They're unstable, you can't depend on them. You have some people, you see them, they interview well, they look like all the perfect employees, you give them the job, it's problems. After two months, you can't find them. This so you have unstable people. Then you have the insecurity, the people who now matter some just not right, then they mind they just have they're always seeking for something, some fulfillment. You know, people throwing away relationship, marriages that are perfectly good marriages, exactly because for fool for simple things, because you know they're not secure, you know, they're not satisfied, they're incomplete, and then you have people are unsafe and who feel unsafe, and you know, there's anxiety, they're dealing with fear. So a lot of these things, and while I'm speaking spiritual, it sounds like I'm speaking spiritual, but I'm actually speaking psychological. Of course, there's a link, but I'm also speaking biological because more and more the research, yeah, the research is showing. I mean, there's Barker's hypothesis, which speaks of the origins of fetal origins of adult disease, and the fact that much of what we deal with adults is coming from even before we're born in the womb. Right. Environment that we're nurtured in, that we're coming to as a child, as a newborn, already begins to instruct our genes to determine how we're gonna turn out as adults. Can you imagine that your hypertension, your anxiety disorder, your depression, your migraines is going on to your protocol baby genie? Was triggered first of all from before you were born or while you were a baby, based on what you're exposed to, and conversely, as parents, understanding that what is happening with our children was triggered by our behavior when they were if you need to talk, and that's exactly why you have to prepare.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

It's like people take it for granted that because it can come by just for some persons, pregnancy happens so easy, like you just have fun, and boops, baby come. So because it happens so easy, you just feel like oh, it's a no-brain, and people have baby baby from the beginning of time. In time, everybody just breeds, but no, we are learning so much more now, and that's why we evolve as people. We learn and we adapt and we take what we learn and we do better for the next generation. We don't just say, Oh, people have a baby, but they just breathe and baby grow up, and I just alive, gonna say, You don't know, so you know better, you do better.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah, it's very important that that proper, you know. So I think our discussions on this is something that we can is good, and you know, when you think about relationships, as I was telling you before, I've seen it time and time again. How many relationships are destroyed by having a baby?

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Oh, yes, good relationships, no matter how much how much you want, and a few and spend millions and get the baby.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah, yeah, I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

But how much rounds, baby bond blocks, marriage God.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Problems because you may have been ready socially, may have been ready emotionally, probably not ready psychologically, or one of the other factors, or you may have been financially able to achieve the pregnancy.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

But then you're not financially able to sustain the child, sustain, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

So now all of a sudden, now all of this money before that we used to use to go out on dates and travel, because we love traveling, so we can post our Instagram page and go out to nice restaurants and go to the hotels, is now sucked into this vacuum. Oh god, kids. Can I tell them when that vacuum is so it's a vacuum in there? Oh god, yeah, you can't see where it's going, you know. Well, you can't see some of it going.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

We can't see, but you're like, my gosh, man.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

So so all of a sudden, no, the kind of things that used to help you to blow off steam.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

So used to blow off steam, you know. Every now and then we used to go to the hotel and you know, we make up and you know, we have some good makeup sex and we have some good experiences and alone time and was great. No, you don't have that.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Because what is alone time? When you have a child, you know, you can't even go to the bathroom by yourself. I never go to the bathroom by myself till Kyle was probably two, two and a half to creep, to creep in the bathroom too with me.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Right. Can you imagine? Yeah, so it you know it's disruptive. You don't have privacy, you don't have individuality, it is a lot, yeah, and it's not just about whether or not you are, you know, the man is a good man or the woman is a good man. Good people, good relationships buckle under pressure grow bad under the pressure of children. Because every time you add a weight, you have it's like a building, you know. Every time you put it on another floor, you have to make sure that the foundation, the structure is strong enough to maintain the new weight. You get what I'm saying? Otherwise, it will collapse under the weight of its own success. I've seen relationships, I mean, colleagues, pastors, where you know, people, good people, they mean well, but now something come in and all of a sudden. You know, before I used to spend, you know that Saturday is the day I prepare my sermon, and you know, Saturday's a day when I spend the time to research and blah blah. And the wife is saying, Well, I need help. Because you work, yeah, I work five days a week. I'm being with a baby, and Saturday is the only day I get taken time for myself, so you're gonna do something. But you know, this is and yeah, I mean, yes, I know like I'm going to a go club, I'm studying the word of God, I'm doing something good. But who is your I need time, you get what I'm saying? So here's now this draw. And are you prepared for that? And I would say to you that the majority of people get in and they're not prepared.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Ideal, they have a clue what's going on. You lit them for six. Like I can say when I had my daughter, I was not ready, and that's alone, just because I'm a very logical being. So, me know some from me already, me not ready. So, from that, that's alone was enough anxiety for me. But then when I actually had her, what I did not expect was the identity crisis. Like I couldn't identify with myself anymore, and that was the biggest issue I faced being a new mom. I just did not feel like myself. I lost all sense of identity, and for a good while, I didn't even it's like in this weird place where you just don't know where you are, you don't understand where you are, you feel like all your goals, what are your goals? You feel like all your goals in the on the back burner, and now everything revolves around this child, and you're not Kim anymore, you're a mom, and what does mom mean? And I went through this process for a while where it was scary for me. So when I was getting married now, I had a lot of anxiety because I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, one more identity crisis, you can add a new identity to me now, there's other spirit. Up mom and they're going to add wife. And I remember I had to say to the pastor, I'm like, I don't know how much feel because now I'm adding a new identity, and as a woman, the roles are so paramount that when you add them to us, it's like because of how society plays so much emphasis on what a mother should be or what a wife should be, the roles, it's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure. You're not just living your life as Kimberly, now your mom, now your wife. If my daughter go on the role and her hair pull up, the body now gonna say, Oh, here pull up. The man said, Where the mother? Where mother they say, no, no, mother, you know, like everybody's looking to you for everything about that child, and it's a lot of pressure. And a lot of women don't know this until you're in the role. Because I certainly didn't think about it like that. And what happened is that for years, me and my mother we had issues because I couldn't understand her. I didn't understand what she went through. But being that my mom basically had me at a similar age to that, the age I had Kay, I could understand the crisis that she was going through when she was growing me. And that we could relate more and I could understand things that I couldn't understand before. And I think women need to understand that it is an identity switch, it's not just you're a mother, it's a literal identity switch that you'll have to go through, and mentally it can take a toll. I think that has a lot to do with postpartum blues. I wish there'd be more study on that, but I think it has a lot to do with the postpartum blues.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah, that's interesting because you're saying all of a sudden there's an identity crisis, and there are a couple of things I'm gonna get into, but I like that view on it because the identity crisis all of a sudden, and it's a switch. It's not like you had time, it's like yesterday you were Kim, and then today, who are you? You know, because here's what I've realized: once the baby comes, everybody's attention is on the baby, so and you don't mind it, you know, because it's your baby and you love the father that you know people appreciate that and they love the baby and whatever. But it's like, all right, so I'm an obstetrician, and when I go to do it, do a delivery, all right? Particularly if it's like a cesarean section. So most of the time, you know, in the in a in a private setting or the hospitals I work at and when I work at now, we allow the fathers to come in and be a part of the delivery process, right? And one of the things is that as soon as the father is there with the mother while we're going to study the either within a surgery, or if it's a C section within a surgery, for example, then we get the baby out and everybody is excited, everybody's rejoicing, mommy is rejoicing, and you know, everybody's happy, and the baby goes over and daddy goes to look at the baby. Most times when the baby is born, the father makes a beeline to see the baby. And then, of course, our practice is that once the baby is born, the father goes with the baby. So now mommy is left and we're finishing up the surgery, or we're finishing up cleaning her up or after the delivery, or if there is something to repair, or something. And it actually to me is quite symbolic of really what happens to you in life because what happens now is that life is no longer about you.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Because everybody was pampering for nine months, you know. Yeah, for nine months, you have all the attention for nine months.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Yes, rubbing.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Baby ball, and nobody can care about you no more.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

All of a sudden, grandma is worried about the baby, you know. Hold the baby right, holy watch baby head. You know, um, let me come over, let me help. Every daddy's baby, all your friends want to come over to see, not you, to see the baby. You get what I'm saying? When you go out, you go back to church or whatever. Everybody's interested in the baby, and all of these things.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Whenever they go out and you don't have the baby, where's the baby?

SPEAKER_00 47:52

You leave the young baby and call out, yeah. You know, even these guys who you know, uh a friend of mine, as I told you, you know, they wanted to go out for some time. They just had a baby, and you know, the husband wants us to go out on the talk and so forth, but the wife is still struggling with leaving the baby at home because somehow she don't feel like a mother, you don't feel like a mother to know that, and you can't you're trying to engage, but your mind is on the other, your mind is at home whenever everything is okay. Yeah, so I can't when you say identity Christ, I can really identify and empathize with women, and that is what happens for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Everything you do, you feel guilt. Like now, now I've learned how to streamline things, and I learned that I'm going to drop a few balls sometimes, and I just pick and choose which balls I'm willing to drop. So, like on Monday, it's Kai Sports Day. I've never missed a sports day, but the school sent home the calendar late, and I already have my patients booked. I'm missing my patients in a few weeks for a whole week, and I missed them last week. I have to drop that ball, and I have to be okay with it. And I know it doesn't make me a bad mom. In the past, I would be in, I'd be a complete wreck. Thinking that, oh mother's gonna be the sport at sports day, she's gonna have all her the every other child gonna have the parent, she's not gonna have her parent, I'd be a complete wreck about it. Now I'm like, well, okay, they didn't send over the calendar, you know how my schedule works. It wasn't on my schedule, I can't do anything about it. It doesn't make you a bad mother, and you just have to give yourself grace, and as you go about it each day, you have to learn to give yourself grace, really. And you have to also understand that you had your life before that child. It's not fair to you, and it's not fair to the child to make your entire life about them. Because when that time comes when they're supposed to move on and you realize that you've made your entire life about them, you're stuck. You have you put that pressure on them to be your everything when they're just a child, and they were just a child.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

I like that word that you use about giving yourself grace, and I like the fact that you spoke about the fact that you can't, it's not good for you and it's not good for the child.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Because I think sometimes people feel that you know, oh, you know, bad size everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

You know, and and the truth is I don't think children come into the world asking you to do that.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

They don't, they love to see it accomplished. My daughter loves to see me doing the things that I love to do and excelling. It gives her something to work towards too.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Yes, there you go. And you know, and the question is how much water of what you're doing is for them anyway, you know, because and I like the fact you said you're able to communicate that to her because that's a part of them understanding how the world works. That the world doesn't just stand in awe because you have to run in a little race at sports day.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

The world keeps moving. It's like moving when I was growing up. I used to, when I was very you know, younger before I had, you know, as I told you before, I've had my own health issues, fractured my hip and all this thing. But I used to be a good track athlete, and I was at the national stadium all the time running and thing. And I can't remember many times, if any, when my parents would have been there to see me run. Because at that time, the events were all in the day, you know, like now you're doing them in the evening, it was all in the middle of the day, and they have to go to work.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

You get what I'm saying? And you know, sometimes they might be able to get the time off and so, but they can't be there all the time, and I'm not sitting there feeling like oh, my whole life, my childhood was a wreck because they weren't able to come and watch me run. Come on, the reality of it is that they had to be winning in their race, you know what I'm saying? And their race is a race of life, so that I have food on the table, that I have clothes on my back, that I can enjoy a certain quality of life, and what I think sometimes we do is that as you say, you don't give yourself enough grace, and we don't communicate that to the children to the children so that they develop an appreciation for the immense sacrifice that you are making for them, you see. So when you come to watch them, it's not because you sit down and you don't have nothing to do, it is because you have had something has to give up for me to be there, and you know, and I think that is so important to their own development as well, understanding a sense of responsibility, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

It is, it is, and that's what I have done time and again. I mean, my daughter knows I can't make it to everything, but I asked her which one is more important for me to come to. And then when she told me I said, Okay, well, I can't go to that one, but I'll come to this one, you know. Um I make sure that she has some say in it. It's not just me just choosing the one that makes me feel good as a parent. But she might decide that I want you to see me dance. The person that wants to see you to come to sports day. It's more important for you to see me dancing than for you to see me running. Then I make an effort to be at the dancing one and I say, okay, I can't come to the sports day. So just having these kind of communications with them, understanding that, hey, if mommy miss work, mommy doesn't get paid, mommy doesn't get paid, all the things that you want they cost money. Like it can't work. And we underestimate how much our children understand. They understand. You just have to take the time to explain it to them and probably put it in at a level that they can understand, explain it to them where they are at, and you'd be surprised. She got over it. I tell you, I'll call her grandma, ask her if a grandma can come sports day, her grandma will go, and she understands. Mommy can't be there, somebody else will do that.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Guess what happens? She's a part of, and I like how you do it because she's a part of the decision-making process, which is helping her to understand responsibility as well. You're not gonna be able to get everything in life. You get some things, you're able now. Let's choose which one are because you're gonna have to give up something. Yeah. So which one are you gonna choose? And I think that you know that's so profound. Let's talk a little bit about that. Because we've gotten into the psychological, and there's so much more that we can talk about with the psychological. I mean, because you're saying, I mean, you're saying identity crisis, you know, then you also are dealing with you know the whole fact that your focus, everything is shifted, and you feel that that has a major role on postpartum blues, postpartum depression, which I think it does, and I only see I see issues like postpartum depression and so becoming more and more of a problem. Because especially when we live in a world that is so visual and so focused on people satisfying their own desires, you know, we have to admit that we live in a very narcissistic society. We do where we're each when you talk to people, we're all about me, me, me. You know, that's why Instagram, what's our social media is such a big thing, because it provides a platform for you to be seen. Yeah, you know, pictures, they take pictures, put it up on there so people can see me, me, me, me, me. And majority, 99% of what is on social media, is really about being seen, but me satisfying my need for affirmation, my need for my insecurities, my need for somebody to like me and to tell me, you know, I look good or whatever. But the problem is parenting and certainly pregnancy into parenting is the poor is 180 degrees from that, if you think about it. 180 degrees, but but but guess what happens, Kim? Well, and I say it's 180 degrees because you just explained that once a baby is born, there's a switch. But guess what happens? Many people get into pregnancy with a narcissistic view and you and are using pregnancy as a means of also affirming their insecurities. It's trendy, it's trendy. So, oh you know, I'm gonna cute belly, I'm gonna be glowing or pretty, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Yes, yes, I'm gonna have I'm gonna have the gender reveal and a baby shower, yeah. I'm gonna do the gender reveal and destroy the environment to tell them that I'm having a girl who probably won't be identifying as a girl, but anyways, yeah, have a baby shower, yeah, have a maternity shoot, it's a big affair, it's a fanfare.

SPEAKER_00 56:19

Yeah, so can you imagine the letdown that comes after spending nine months? And then all of a sudden, you know, in a spit instant, you move from being the center of attention, which you so crave, to now being just a bystander in somebody else's show. You can imagine the psychological impact that has on women, and that's why I believe postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, these things are going to become increasingly and increasingly prevalent.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

It is, and then we're not prepared for it, you're not prepared for all the changes that actually happen, and then when you realize how much that brand new shiny baby destroyed that body, when you see all the stretch marks, oh my goodness, inspiration and the husband not looking so pleased with the new body.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Yeah, exactly. That is also a big issue, you know, because now all the things that you that made you valid that validated you as a woman have been compromised.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Not to make the breast going south, doc.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

That was hilarious. People have been that's trending on Instagram, I'm sure. You know, the good breast days are over, you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

So every time, every time it's like mine, women not to waste the good breast series.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

It's a major thinking, man. You and you have to, you know, this is kind of where now relationships are stressed in many ways. Because on one hand, you have the psychological issues that happens with a woman, the transition, and I'm not even talking yet about the hormonal impact. Because remember, for nine months, your body is just flooded with all these hormones. Easy levels are high, progesterone levels are high, you know, your sympathetic nervous system is upregulated, so you're kind of functioning at a higher level, you know. And then as soon as you deliver those hormones fall, and everything goes crashing down. So your whole biology, psychology that has been rewired for this pregnancy for nine months, all of a sudden goes wired. Yeah. So that's one thing. So in addition to not being to losing some of your physical attributes, you don't feel as attractive anymore. You don't feel the feeling now is sometimes even more significant than the reality.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

And then you're not remembering things. That's you know that mummy brain, you they're struggling to remember, you get so frustrated by little they just can't remember, we just put something just a while ago because it's just not functioning at a level, as you mentioned. So all that combined, it's a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

You know, you don't feel, and you know, women come in, they don't feel sexy. Yeah, six weeks, and we have this thing oh, six weeks clinic, all docks are yeah, man, everything is good. You can get back to normal, and the man is there coming to the clinic. He said that okay, can start, yeah, man. You can start back intercourse, and everything is good. Heal up, good to go. But in reality, the woman, she's still recovering. Yes, the vagina might heal, might have healed, appeared to be healed, but psychologically, she don't feel attractive, you know. You know, the sensation of sexual intercourse may not be the same, you know, and a lot of the times men don't really get that because and I see it all the time, is not an indictment per se on men because they do, you know, naturally the expectations. No, I mean reality.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Is it not an indictment on men?

SPEAKER_00 59:52

I don't think so. I'll tell you why, Kim. Because the relationship existed before the pregnancy, and a lot of the expectations were based on what was a previous norm. Okay, so this was established as our norm. We normally go Kentucky on a Thursday, we normally go something on a Saturday, and this is our norm, okay? And then all of a sudden, all of a sudden, things change, right? And what happens in men's mind because the fact that they don't have the benefit of certain kind of education, they said, okay, she's pregnant, I understand. Make some adjustments for the pregnancy. But now in his mind, he's planning. Now, I have to understand it. If you ever try running a long distance race, or you ever run for you've been doing anything, and you react, you say you think, okay, may I forget to hear so, I have to get to hear. This is where I'm supposed to go. You prepare yourself to sustain to get there, you know, and then when they go to your final say, oh, another way is a longer distance, it's about them, egocentricity, they don't have it egocentricity, yeah. So we're gonna edit that part, we're gonna edit that into the podcast, that's all of it part of it, so we can have to make the point. Um, but what I was saying now, in terms of the sexual interaction part of it, so a lot of times the man now make up in his mind, yeah, man, make a support or she needed support for nine months. He's thinking nine months, he's not thinking a year and a half, he's thinking nine months, you know, because nine months is how long a pregnancy lasts, and then at the end of the nine months, he's saying, Who is this woman? Because the woman who he is with now, her behavior expectations is different from the one who he was with before. Before she was freaky, she won't have sex five times a week, worse because she was trying to get pregnant, you know, because many realize it, you know, whether woman won't get pregnant, it's not because it's not because you're so sexy and you look so good why she wants to, you know. She's traveling agenda, so she's coming at you hard and in feeling, and then all of a sudden now, she's not interested in until two months, three months pass. And this is what men talk about, you know, because I mean you have these conversations, they talk to them and they say, but no, it's like a different literally, you know. A husband reached out to me the other day, you know, and cool guy, young guy, wife is beautiful. She, you know, she had her baby the other day, you know, took care of them during the pregnancy, she had the baby. And he reaches out to me, and he said, Doc, I need to see so and so. Because he's like, since you have the baby, she's a different person. And I'm like, you know, oh, only if could she have been post-partum depression or something. I say, no, sometimes adjustment thing. And so I say, okay, fine, let me let me talk. So I reach out to her and say, okay, just to kind of feel out what's going on. Because I can't tell her that her husband is talking to me to tell me to talk to her, because then you know you start talking about breach of confidentiality and so forth. So I said to her, Oh, you know, how is everything going on? And I'm talking to her, kind of essentially screening her for post-part and depression. And she said she's fine, she's okay, she's kind of adapting to the other baby, keeping her per night and so forth. But for him, he's a different person and he can't understand. Because, and the truth is she is a different person, in fairness, because for the last before she one one is that she has a new identity, two is that before she has an objective, she was motivated by a goal, she has now achieved that goal, and nobody you know has told the man what was really going on in the head of women, women and that men, men, most men don't understand these things. Nobody told him that this was what was happening, and so now to him it's like he's just in a bad movie, so it's like he might try to touch her, she don't want him to touch her, you know what happened, she had roll over, you know, and yes, but we always can talk about all the pressures of postpartum care and having a new baby, but some of it is not just that, Kim, some of it is just like listen, so she had a different plan now, she has that, she's not really too interested in that because for her, the sex had a goal attached to it, so that's one. And I allow you to comment, I'm gonna allow you to comment on all this because I know what I'm giving you is truth and light. So I'm gonna give you a chance to comment on it. So the second thing, and I'm gonna give you a chance to comment at them in order. The second thing is her body, and I've heard women say this to me. She said, Doc, he may find me attractive and want to have sex. I don't find myself attractive, I literally feel disgusted by how I look. So, and I never thought to myself, that was and I remember the first patient who told me that, and I stopped, and she really said it. It was so profound and revealing for me that I had to stop on this in awe because I didn't realize how much of sex was related to how you felt about yourself, exactly. Because for me, it I was thinking, okay, it's how you feel about the other person. So the other person looks sexy to you, they feel no, how does she feel when the light is on and they're having sex, and you know, she looks at her body and what it used to be and all that she says that I feel literally this repulsed by my body, so I'm not interested. I'll give you a chance to respond to those two things.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:23

I want to respond to the second one first, because you see what men don't understand is that again with how they are brought up, don't care about their appearance like women in most cases, and not only that, but if a man is uh in terms of looks, if a man is a five, right? If everybody's supposed to vote and they vote him as a five, a man would probably rate himself as an eight. While a woman who is a five, she will probably rate herself as like a three. Oh, yeah. It's just we are as women. So if you look at like women like with the Rihanna cancer, we're also proud. Rihanna is that Rihanna could go on stage, sing her songs, don't bring on no guest artists, just be herself, be Rihanna and show up as enough. That's unusual for women. When women doing any performance, they have to bring on guests, they have to do wardrobe change, they have to do like 10 different choreography in the air spin round, all kind of thing. When a man is a performance, he go on him in one suit, he m have the mic, he probably stands the one place the old time. And the best thing shell down the show, in his opinion.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Remember the slungs that you see bury someone classical? Make you rock away. And in the slung with a microphone, polymade catch one side, and that then that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Right. While a woman boom flick split everything, everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

Skin poop on everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:52

And they feel like if they don't do this, you know. So when when a woman is having sex now, a man might say, Yeah, like you literally have on your t-shirt and your husband won't leave you alone. You know, understand that you look your work, and he just in on your skin like sticks, right? But you don't feel like yeah, I'm not looking for my best now. At least I'm gonna you know, freshen up and put us kind of for them heads anyways that you may just like that's men, right? But women know it's important to us to feel sexy, and I remember after having my daughter, oh gosh, I tell you, I like a slim as you know, my whole life, like a cute slim thing, then it's not like bummy, one complexion from head to toe. No, I don't know what's that thing on the tummy. Why it looks like a friend, Johnny Case.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

Something is still inside me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Something is still in there, the belly black, it will, and why would any man find this attractive? That's the only thing you're thinking. Like, why would any man find this attractive? Right, you just don't feel sexy, and I remember Rosemary Bordeaux was talking to us the other day. For women, it's important for us to feel attractive, we are designed that way. It is important for humanity to continue. Women have to feel like they're sexy, and and men don't understand this, so a lot of times women don't understand it either because they project that feeling onto men. They're like, I don't find myself sexy, so my man don't find me sexy. When the truth is, he couldn't even care less, he understands what your body goes through more than you think, and he's not complaining about it, you're the one complaining about it, and you're the one projecting that emotion on him, and sometimes they hear it enough till they're annoyed, and then truly probably start feeling well because you won't stop saying it. You've been saying it so much that they start acting on it, and it's a process, it's a process, and probably something that requires a lot of communication. It requires communication, and you have to understand as men too, that your body didn't change with this pregnancy. You are still you for the woman. One mentally, she's battling with who she is now, physically, she cannot recognize herself, especially women who gain a lot more weights, they cannot recognize themselves, and they have to do that too, and also do the fact that women will look a certain way to catch the man, so that change. So now we have to wonder if the man are gonna still want to, and then you don't know how they vagina feel. That's a whole nother thing, you know. Because now in a year ahead, you say, Boy, if that big head pretty just comes, how does it feel down there? That's a concern. You have no idea what you have anxiety about that. Case in point, this last week was Valentine's Day. So one of my mothers, I saw her the next day, I saw the Wednesday, and she was like, you know, I decided that I wanted to dress up for my husband. She just had a baby, so she wanted to dress up for her husband, and she realized that her laundry couldn't fit. And she said she finally decided to listen to me and get bigger size laundry. I'm like, just get bigger laundry if the ones that you have can't fit, it's okay. And you know, she's like, No, she can't do that because that means you're going to be stuck in this big size. I'm like, not necessarily. You might get small again and get some new one again. The clothes, your back wear a size eight, you're not gonna buy a size five shoes. You're okay with it, you accept the fact that you have a size eight foot and you buy it, but why would clothes it differently? Why do you want to squeeze yourself into a smaller cloth? So, anyways, she got it and she said that there was just so much pressure surrounding it for her, like she felt extremely tense, just and and she couldn't understand that it's my husband who'd been together for 15 years. This is my third child, and I was nervous having sex with my husband. So, men taking for granted that, oh, she knows my lover. Why should we just but it's not like that? You know how emotionally uh taxing it is to accept that you have to buy a larger size laundry, you have to go buy from the curvy, uh you have the plus size laundry, and you always are small or a medium. That's a lot to act, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

That's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting you said that, but let me I don't want to comment on that yet, because I know you say you're gonna comment on the first point I made. So let me just kind of allow you to finish before I interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

Yeah, I've got to remember the first point because now I'm gonna talk so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

Well, I think you kind of started to touch on the fact that you know, you know, the fact that there is a switch in terms of the woman's motives. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Okay, so motives. Yes, that is true, meaning that before you're probably you're having sex with purpose. There's a purposeful sex. There's but more in most cases, that's not what I get from women that I experience. It's not that oh, we were trying so hard to have the child, that's why we're doing it before. Most times it's how they feel about their bodies in most instances. The ones that, well, I guess the one it can be biased because the women that I see they usually have issues surrounding sex. So that's the reason why I'm hearing this. I never thought about that before because most women that I interact with and myself, you're attracted to your partner. You want to have sex with them, you enjoy having sex with them, but you know, after pregnancy, I can see myself not wanting to, based on previous experience, not wanting to do it, especially with the pressure of the six weeks. Like you're so annoyed. Like, you're like, why would the doctor even do this to me? Why would he set me up like this?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

Like, I didn't, you know, I didn't realize how many enemies I was creating among my patients.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:09

You're creating enemies because you're creating up to six weeks because I just want to hear that, and the doctor said they're good, they can't go on, and you just like, and then it's like they might also have issues with the men and their role in the whole care of the child. Yeah, so the man might be at home not even helping out, and I'm like dead tired, breast smell of breast milk.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

That's another turn off to you though, the smell of the breast milk, and if your breast was always a part of sex that you enjoy, and now it's now your human feeding machine, you can't, you know, it's funny that you said that, you see, because of the fact that the breast for men and women is such an important part of sexual intimacy, exactly, but once you start breastfeeding, you begin to see the breast in a different light. So before you know, you saw the breast as a part as a sexual organ, uh, erogenous zone. Now you're breastfeeding, it's hard for you to see. I imagine that somebody sucking on a breast is not as it's not as pleasurable as it would have been before, because now you have a baby stuck in on a breast.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:24

And it's baby food now. I feel like during that time the breast is not sexy at all, like it's gusted by the soul, it has a raw smell, like it's just not sexy, it's not sexy, and then dribble. Nobody that is on the back of the tiny, it's dripping, not no sex about that, and then you're a wait, and yeah, yeah, listen out if the baby wake up. It's it's complex, and uh and men can have sex through all that, you know. Already before pregnancy, we already have a hard time turning off our brain. Now imagine now we just really are waiting for it for done.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Like I said, uh how soon can you finish so I can get back to being a mother? I wonder if now I can practice my kegels, finish this up quick, quick, quick. And it's unfortunate though, Kim, because what I find is that men find women's mental engagement in sex probably the most attractive portion or sensual part of their experience. So, like if a woman is into it, even if she's not really into it, but she's responding, you know. That's why you know many women learn how to perform because men find it attractive, you know, something as simple as the noise she makes, groaning, moaning, whatever, how she it follows she's responding to what he's doing turns him on, even more than just the act of intercourse. So when a woman is not engaged and her mind is clearly elsewhere, you know, she's looking up to the side when he's in front of her, you know, it can be a turn off for men too, and they you know they realize that you're just not there, and and I see that now becomes a major strain on relationships because now you have lost a sexual intimacy, two, both of you are tired and exhausted, three, you're financially strained, you know, four, you both feel like the attention is drawn away from you, you know, overall, because mommy is focusing on baby, daddy's focusing on baby, daddy's focusing, both of you and making money. So you can see how relationships suffer because of a child, you know, and for whatever reason, it's so important for persons to understand, think that we think on these things before we begin to go down and make sure that the layers are there.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:58

Sometimes it's very painful.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

Well, they get into that part, yeah. Yeah, pain.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:03

And the women just that and that's sometimes not even painful, sometimes you just don't feel like what felt before. Yeah, things move sensations are different, sensations change, it just doesn't feel as good as it does before. Yeah, and now and now we have to explore and communicate, but you don't have the time to think about that because they think about the eat the breastware, the milk where deco to the breast, the people where tickle, they don't have time to say, you know, babe, maybe we should try this different position. You're just like, all right, this one come off for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:32

Yeah, wow, that's crazy. Well, we kind of have to think about you know how it is that so one is preparation, is one, but how do you kind of overcome these things? And I think a big part of overcoming any problem is understanding the problem, understanding the problem, you know, understanding that once you find out what the problem is, knowing where to get help, yeah. So, I mean, yeah, because even before we start talking about getting help, if I don't understand where you're coming from or why you're doing what you're doing, then I become less tolerant of what you're doing because I can interpret your suffering as an intent to injure. Alright, so what I mean by that is really you got it, yeah. You know, I feel like why we despite me or women are like, you know, she knows love me or whatever, you know, but they want me in the first place, or just baby they want, and we have a baby, and you know, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

I've heard men say that all she wanted me for was to have a baby, and I've heard men like completely disregard. You know, one time I'll share the story, one time I had a father on my life, you know, giving his experience as a father, new father, and just sharing what men go through as it relates to becoming a new dad. And you know, he was on the live and everybody was enjoying him talking and whatever. After the live done, the mother messaged me, and she's completely different story now, you know. She's just like, you see, that's the thing. People listen to him because he's vibrant and he can talk and he has a way of words, and people hear him, but that was not the experience, that's not what I went through. You know, she had a completely different view, and I was just like, Whoa. I was just like, Whoa, because he was saying that you know him respect women more because he had to save her and he did this, and how you know, he was like, you know, I think he's the world greatest man at this point, you know, and then he's like, Well, at the end, they'll never work out, she leave him and whatever. And all she wanted was a baby and whatever, and she's just like, No, this was supposed to be a relationship, this supposed madam father, my child, we're supposed to go through this forever. And she said that, you know, because he was saying sharing that she always wanted a child and she could never get pregnant before, how much pregnancy she lost, and how he was very attentive because of this. So you know, I feel like he talked by your heart strings, but when she's like, that's not what happened, he wasn't, he was barely there. He does show up, spend two seconds play with the baby, everything was on me. I was stressed, I had a lot to deal with, the delivery was bad, the recovery was bad, and he left me to do all of it by myself, and you know, it was just a completely different story. So the truth is sometimes because men don't know all that they go through, they're thinking that what they're doing isn't enough when it's far from enough. And as I said, remember men you know, remember what I said about men, they give themselves eight when they're truly a five.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:39

That's interesting that you said that because I was you're not saying that he was lying or necessarily being dishonest or disingenuous, totally was exaggerating, probably thought much more of what he was doing. So he in his mind he was doing very well when reality of it he was he wasn't giving as much support as he really thought he was giving. Okay, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:06

I remember I started saying men think they're eight when they're truly a five, and it's straight across the board.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:13

So let me ask you the question now. A very practical question, because we can we have identified the problems. How what's the solution? So we have identified education as part of the process, you know. But even when you educating, I'm a man and I'm saying, okay, I'm accustomed to us having sexual intimacy very often and you know enjoyed sex. Now you get pregnant, I understood that you know, you know, during pregnancy things will happen. Doctor will say, Why no sex because placental load, this, that, that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

Yeah. But you were asking a question about what you could do as a man. And the truth is showing that you care and and not just showing that you care inside, you know, like if the doctor gentleman reached out to you, he was reaching out to you because he wants sex. But actually showing that you care about me and the process. So if you know that seeing a pelvic flower therapist after can make a woman feel better about her body, and you know, you say, you know, babe, I heard that this can help you, and it really feels like it is me that you care about and not your needs, those things can help. Like getting learning about the process, you know, like placing interest in getting the information and learning about the process would make the woman feel like you know, actually care about me. Because remember where the problem started, you know, we're talking about the psychological aspect, is that all the attention shifted from you to the baby. So if the man can now come and use that same ego that we talk about tapping into and help the woman to feel like, hey, it is you that I'm caring about, your well-being that I'm caring about, that will in turn go back to submitting. Because now the man's showing that he loves you and him cares about you. So now it's easier to give in to his to what he wants. But when it feels like he's just caring about himself and his own needs, that's gonna be a turn off because you already feel like you have to sacrifice everything else for everybody. So it's easy for that to that to be a turn-off. So it's just showing genuine care and just being genuine about you know, appreciating what this woman just went through. Like, I just feel like women feel like men don't truly appreciate what the sacrifice that they make when they become pregnant and when they deliver a baby. I don't think they understand it. And when a woman can feel like, oh my gosh, my husband actually understands what I'm going through. He's actually patient, he's actually interested in me getting rest, taking the baby off, making sure I can get some rest. Like actually showing that type of care. You wake up and him say, No, babe, you know, baby, pump some milk so that when the baby wakes up, I can be the one to get up this time. You know, those things over time, you're like, oh my gosh, you're more rested, you're more likely to want to have sex. So you're not tired, you're not miserable, you can't have a shower without rushing out. You know what that you know what that feels like when you just have a baby to actually spend some time to shower.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:20

A greater appreciation for the simple things in life, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:23

Listen, you there to pee and you don't have to worry about the baby, like you don't have to do it quick. That's why that's when every end up with perfect problem in the kind of going about you pushing out the pee to hurry it along to run back to the baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:36

So you so you're basically talking about empathizing and supporting act for it, and being a part of the process. So we're not, and I think the key thing is without the intention of just doing it to get a reward, but doing it because it's the right thing. So you're not doing it because you say, Okay, I want to get a piece tonight, so I'm gonna just be nice. But doing it because you really love and support the person, you want to be a part of the process. I think that's what you're saying, which is important, and I think from the men's perspective, I think it's the same thing. I think you know the truth is, Kim, life is a lot simpler than we really think it is. You know, the Bible always says, Do unto others as you have them do unto you. You know, the reality of it is that it's really the same thing because for women, sometimes, you know, you're going through this process, and you also have to realize that the man also has needs, he's going through a process, you know, because you know, he has the you know, sometimes women don't understand the intensity of sexual energy and desire for men, you know, it builds up, and you know, when a man needs that gratification, it also affects his psychology. You know, we don't get into that part of it, you know, about men and their psychology. It also affects their psychology, it affects the ability, the ability to be patient, the ability to make sound judgment and good decisions, all of those things are also affected when a man isn't getting sexual satisfaction.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:05

That's a hard buy for me, you know, because to me it feels like it comes down to self-control. So, like, if your wife is going through something, you mean determined that biology does not allow you to put your sexual needs to the side to be there for your wife.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:21

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that well in, and I think it's important for women to understand what the role that sex plays for men. It is not that men are saying, I'm saying that a man should not be able to control himself, meaning that okay, because a woman is not giving me men go outside. No, I don't think I'm not necessarily agreeing with that. What I'm saying is that sexual satisfaction also is important to make sure that your man is the best man he can be too. If just like how if something is affecting you psycho, it's gonna affect your ability to be the best wife. If something is affecting him, it's gonna affect your ability to be the best husband. So I think, for example, sometimes that milliground is important. You know, it's like you know, I'll have a conversation with patients, and you know, let's give the classic example where a guy like obstetrician will tell her during pregnancy not to have sex as if you know placenta is lower or something, yeah, placenta preval. You know, don't sex, don't have sex. But then I'm saying, well, remember now there's more than one way to satisfy a person's intercourse. So, so you guys know this is where now you have to get creative. What can you, what is gonna be do? What communication you're gonna have, babe? What can I do to help you? And I think men appreciate that. I think men appreciate that, and men are motivated. It's like remember, I told you in the start of the conversation when we're talking about the fact that women don't understand how much power they have over what men do. Sometimes a compliment is enough. So if a man almost kills himself just because you tell him, oh, you know, he's strong, he's muscular and whatever. He's she's there, lifting up things with 15 bucks, right? So it's the same thing, you know. When a man realize, okay, yeah, you know, she can't really have intercourse, but she's trying, you know, she does she trying to find a way to please me and so forth. It gives a sense of satisfaction to him that okay, I'm appreciated, my feelings are valued in all of this, and you know, and helps him. If so, if he was a 50%, you say out of 10, 5, if he was a five, you know, it it can bump him up to a six or a seven. You see? So I think where relationships work, and this goes for anything in life, is where each person serves the interest of the other. Where our mentality is okay, how can I help you to be a happier, better person? And the other one is saying, how can I help you to be a better, happier person? And then you find that when we come together, we are both better, happier, healthier people.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:48

Understood, Doc. I completely understand. I'm taking nothing away from what you're saying, but I want to also allow men to understand that maybe at this time in women, because for me, I'm just talking from personal experience. It felt for me like I was always there for my daughter's father. So I was always there for him to everything that he has gone through, you know, always there being the good supportive partner. But at one time in life, you need him to step up and be more, and they couldn't handle it, you know. So it's at that time I feel like women need men to actually lead and be men and understand for once that it's about somebody else, other than their own ego and their own feelings.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:35

For that one time, yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think it's not just one time, it's a part of the process of being a man and being responsible. That is that's really where we should be. What I would say to you though, and you know, so as we wrap it up now, what I would say is this remember now that for relationships, you know, one person may have failed in that regard. It doesn't mean everyone is the same, you see, and you know, and what we have to be careful of is judging our future based on our past, you know. True. So so I think I'll leave you with that. No, no, no, I'll leave you with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:22

I don't know if I'm not speaking out, but I'm not listening.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:26

Whatever I've been doing, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:28

Yeah, in your note, I'm catching you. Just know that I notice you. That's what you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:35

Alright, I don't know if I'm guilty, but it doesn't matter, right? It's whether you're a person, whether you're guilty or not, it's not important, it's what the jewelry concludes, right? Alright, I think that's all good one.