Bubbles and Benevolence with Marisa Vecchio
Marisa Vecchio in conversation with some inspirational people we have met through Hanworth House. We wanted to create a place where we can collect and share their experience, knowledge and advice to you. Talking all things business, family and fundraising.
Bubbles and Benevolence with Marisa Vecchio
Anaesthesia to Anti Aging - Dr Sheena Burnell talks about her move to longevity medicine and how you can live a longer more active life
Dr. Sheena Burnell from the Ultimate Health Clinic graces us with her presence on this episode of Bubbles and Benevolence. Have you ever wondered about the secrets to a longer, healthier life? You'll be captivated by Dr. Burnell's journey in longevity medicine and the innovative steps you can take today to extend your lifespan. From our serendipitous first meeting at a clothing donation event to our shared passion for champagne, particularly the historic House of Pol Roger, this episode is both enlightening and heartwarming. Listen as Dr. Burnell recounts her visits to French vineyards and shares the touching story behind Pol Roger’s black label tribute to Winston Churchill.
Prepare for a journey into a world where medicine and art beautifully intersect. Dr. Burnell reveals her unexpected fascination with textiles and art, starting with Japanese woodblock prints and evolving into a rich collection of Chinese embroidered bound feet shoes. Her experiences living in China offer a unique lens on traditional Chinese medicine, merging personal interests with professional insights. This chapter is a testament to how personal hobbies can deeply influence and enhance one's professional journey.
Dr. Burnell's personal health journey takes center stage as she opens up about her battle with breast cancer and the transformative lifestyle changes that followed. From adopting a Mediterranean diet to integrating intermittent fasting, she shares invaluable health and wellness insights. Her philanthropic efforts, highlight the profound joy derived from giving back to the community. Join us as we reflect on personal growth and the essence of living a life of service, inspired by notable figures like Winston Churchill and Quentin Bryce. This episode promises to leave you inspired and motivated to lead a healthier, more fulfilling life.
Get your copy of Dr Sheena Burnell's Top 10 Tips for Longevity at www.hanworthhouse.com.au/podcast
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Welcome to Bubbles and Benevolence, the podcast where we pop the bubbles to success and dive deep into the benevolent hearts of those who have achieved it. In this podcast, we'll sit down with successful business leaders, philanthropists, non-profit workers and more to discuss their journeys, the lessons they've learned along the way, and how they're using their success to make a positive impact on the world. So grab a glass of bubbles and join us as we explore the intersection of business and benevolence and discover what it truly means to be successful. Welcome back to Bubbles and Benevolence. Today we're sitting down with Dr Sheena Burnell from the Ultimate Health Clinic to talk about her career, her new pursuit of longevity medicine and the simple things that we can do to live a longer life.
Speaker 2:I'm so thrilled to have a wonderful lady come and be a guest on today's podcast, dr Sheena Burnell. Welcome Sheena.
Speaker 3:Thank you, marisa. It is an honor and a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2:Oh well, it's a pleasure to have you, and I think this is the first time we're going to have a bit of a medical take on things and a lifestyle take, a bit of both, I think, today. But, sheena, of course we always bring guests onto the podcast because we always say we've collected a lot of people along the Hanworth journey, and you are certainly no less one of those. Do you remember when we first met?
Speaker 3:I do, and it's funny you should mention Hanworth because that's how we met, because, as you know, I do love a wardrobe and I do love my clothing. And I got this fabulous thing in the mail, this email that said come and drop off my unwanted designer clothing. And I actually thought I don't have what is unwanted designer clothing. It's like unopened champagne, unblended champagne. I then went over and met this wonderful woman, marisa, and a friendship began and a kind of professional relationship as well in terms of supporting Hanworth. So yeah, and that was about six years ago, I think.
Speaker 2:I think it was, You're quite right. And of course we've bonded over a love of bubbles, as well. And this is the focus, obviously a little bit of a subliminal focus of the podcast is we like to talk about how we met, but we also like to talk about how we celebrate together, and one way we do celebrate together is a mutual love of some bubbles. So what bubbles have you brought in to share?
Speaker 3:with us today. I bought some Paul Roger and I years ago did one of the famous Bernadette O'Shea's champagne classes. I went in and I just thought there was champagne that was fancy and there were kind of Aussie bubbles and didn't know the difference. Total Convert, of course, like half of Brisbane came out, was quite knowledgeable, discovered I've got a palette for it, so I'm actually quite good and went into this sort of champagne competition and I did a couple of trips to Champagne with Bernadette and we, of course she's royalty.
Speaker 3:So we went to the most amazing houses and we were treated to the most amazing experiences. But the best one was Paul Roger. She was really good friends with Christiane, who was in the family, and we had a couple of meals there and his wife cooked for us which was really special and just did simple French food and it's an epinay which Winston Churchill famously described as the most drinkable address in the world. And the House of Paul Roger supported Winston Churchill, or rather he supported them, and in fact when he passed away the house changed its white sleeve the capsule that you would have seen me take off to black and that was black for 50 years and they've only just changed back to white.
Speaker 2:I never knew that, although I had seen the black label.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I never knew that was the story behind it.
Speaker 3:That's right. I mean, you've got't drink a lot of champagne and then they've got the QBA Winston, sir Winston Churchill, and it's very special. So I'm also a bit of a Winston Churchill fan, so it kind of really was quite special. But I think just the fact that it was a family-run operation, one of the few vineyards that hadn't been bought up by LVMH or you know, those big conglomerates Still operating independently, and the beautiful Christiane who was just gorgeous, we sang songs, the bathroom was hilarious.
Speaker 3:When you went in it had one of those fish that does the don't worry, be happy, don't worry. And I sort of thought that's a really unusual thing to have this rather impressive champagne house. And I came out and I said to Christian oh, I love the fish. And he said, oh yes, prince Charles gave us that as you do. As you do Because there's also a connection with royalty, because the royal houses love pole. So yeah, for me it was just a really special house and I thought, well, I can't really afford the cuvee anymore and they're very hard to get hold of. Just the non-vintage is lovely.
Speaker 2:I think it is. It's my favourite champagne house as a whole.
Speaker 3:I was so happy when you said that. Actually I was really surprised.
Speaker 2:Winston Churchill vintage champagne is my very, very favourite champagne. Really, yes, yes, um, champagne is my very favorite. Really, yes, yes, and I mean, I've not got a sophisticated champagne palette, I just know what I like and what I don't like, but, um, I like every single champagne they have in their house, whether it's the rose or the blanc de blanc or anything, everything's everything.
Speaker 2:And I was privileged enough to go there once as well, and I remember my husband and I were in the ante room and they had these three bottles of incredible champagne. And I said to him do they expect us to drink from those three bottles? And we thought they were going to take them away. So we had a good swill of each one, and then somebody would go out of the room and while they were out we'd swill again, but they had left it there for us to have it was so generous and it is such a beautiful building.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so gorgeous, isn't it so beautiful? How privileged we are that we've both connected, not only over Hanworth, but over our mutual love of.
Speaker 3:Poitiers, I did not know that about you, so that was a lucky, lucky little thing Cheers to our podcast and chat today and the beautiful house of Poitiers. Absolutely beautiful and I was very sad. Christiane did pass away a few years ago. He had a very unusual dementia so he passed away from that.
Speaker 2:So we can toast Christiane Exactly and the house and the pleasure that I think sharing a glass of bubbles brings.
Speaker 3:Well, very much so, in fact. I do remember a story that he told when we were there somebody, danielle his wife, had made a chocolate mousse for dessert and somebody said, oh, christian, you know what's the best champagne to have with chocolate? And he came out and he said, ah, it's the old cnc. Question the old cnc. And he said if it is good champagne and it is good chocolate, a good meal. Anything is possible.
Speaker 2:That's true, and I just thought, you know, because everybody gets a little bit fraught with this whole matching, and I just thought, yep you just enjoy it, and I think sometimes it's the company and the environment, isn't it, that really determines whether or not the experience is pleasurable?
Speaker 3:But just don't get precious Look at us from this little podcast room.
Speaker 2:We love this new podcast room.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:Thanks to Jamie for creating this wonderful space, and how nice it is just to be sharing a glass of something cold on a fairly rainy day outside. Now, sheena, you have had a pretty checkered and incredible history. I've had an unusual medical career.
Speaker 3:I know I would say on resumes I have a unique skill set. So tell us about that unique skill set. Well, I always wanted to be a doctor. I was literally an eight-year-old, that just went. That's what I'm doing. I remember saying to my mother mummy, I'd like to be a doctor. She said great idea, like who wouldn't want their daughter to do medicine. And so I sort of dabbled with other things, because I like music as well and all sorts of other things. But I eventually, you know, just got into medical school and did, did medicine and zoomed through that. And when I became an intern, I rotated through you know, various specialties and I realized I wasn't going to be a physician like your husband. I certainly wasn't going to be a surgeon. I did not enjoy cutting, and yet I love practical stuff. And I did an anaesthetic term and I thought, oh, I quite like this, I can do this. And so I actually managed to wheedle my way onto the training program and I was the only person in Brisbane to get onto the training program that year. So I ended up being a consultant a year earlier than everybody else. I was quite young. So I went through my four years of training, really enjoyed anesthetics.
Speaker 3:I then moved. I was getting married to my first husband. I was getting married, so I was moving, married to my first husband. I was getting married. So I was moving to Toowoomba and I had a really good job lined up there and I really very much enjoyed my first year as a consultant. But I also realised that I needed a bit more training. So I ended up getting a job in Sydney as a clinical fellow in paediatrics. So I did a year of paediatrics in Sydney, which was fabulous.
Speaker 3:By this stage my husband was desperate to move to the country and I was desperately doing everything I could to put him off. And anyway we moved to Albury. So he was a gynaecologist, obstetrician, gynaecologist, obstetrician, gynaecologist. So we had several years there and it was great. I was director of anesthetics because nobody else wanted to do it and I was young and enthusiastic. So I was director of anesthetics, I was supervisor of training. I did a whole training program for all the young doctors coming up from Melbourne. Um really enjoyed it, commissioned the new hospital, all the operating theatres there, so so I had a great time.
Speaker 3:I really in a small town, if you're enthusiastic and keen and you're sort of happy to devote the time, there's a lot to do. So I was busy. And then I met my second husband and he was really keen to leave Albury. He was an anaesthetist as well in my group. So we came back to Brisbane and I joined an anaesthetic group up here because of course everyone knew me. David's a very good anaesthetist. He got plenty of work and we were here for a number of years and then, unfortunately, that relationship kind of ended, I don't know how to say it. We are still very good friends, but we just it did end.
Speaker 3:And then I went to China because David and I used to collect Chinese textiles. We used to go to Hong Kong a lot on buying trips and I always thought I'd love to go and live in Hong Kong. I adore Hong Kong. So when I saw him sort of you know, like he found this really great girl that really suits him so much better Isn't that lovely when you can be happy for them, oh, so happy, like once he partnered with somebody else. That really is great for him I was like, oh, this is fabulous, so now I can go.
Speaker 3:So I applied for a job in Hong Kong but we can't get registration there. So it's all to do with the fact that after handover the Hong Kong government decided to make it very difficult for other doctors to get into Hong Kong. The aim of the game was to keep out the Chinese the mainland Chinese but in so doing they kept everybody out. So it gave them a little bit of a problem because they ended up with no doctors anyway. So I couldn't really work there. And I was talking to a colleague who ran a training program up there and he said I've got a friend in Shanghai who would really like a western doctor in his new clinic. So I went to Shanghai, had look around, thought it was an amazing city, and so I said okay, I'll take this job and I also do injectables. So I was also doing Botox and stuff like that at the time. What?
Speaker 2:era are we talking about Sheena?
Speaker 3:That was about 2006. So quite an early era for injectables.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah it was. In fact I got a lot of pushback on that because a lot of people said it was regarded as very frivolous and a lot of people sort of said, oh, you can't do that as an anaesthetist because you know you'll ruin your reputation. And I actually just thought, well, so what, I don't care. I mean I was established, I had great operating lists, great surgeons. I was established, I had great operating lists, great surgeons, I was busy and I thought it was really interesting. And it was great because it was such an unusual combination that when I went to China and joined this clinic I could do it was a cosmetic clinic, so I could do injecting and I could do anesthetics, so yeah, so I went up and worked at that clinic for a year and a half and it was all very interesting.
Speaker 3:When I left I discovered they hadn't registered me as a doctor in China Whoops. So it did cause some problems because after that I was kind of marked as this kind of dodgy doctor who kind of practised off the radar. So I'd gone from being on you know committees and chairing things and you know being involved with standards, to suddenly being this dodgy doctor. Anyway, in China. China was such a weird experience. Like a lot of expats, I ended up doing stuff in China that wasn't what I was trained to do, so I worked in sports medicine clinics, I worked in a geriatric clinic. I worked for a wine company as a brand ambassador for a while for Hardee's and all that. Tasting with Bernadette was great. I could lead a tasting. I couldn't do it in Chinese but I had an interpreter, so I did lots of stuff in the wine industry as a professional, which was really fun.
Speaker 2:So I did tell you it was a checkered history. We've obviously already endorsed that fact quite clearly. But I also want to make a remark about how I think sometimes you pursue a passion rather than process, because that's obviously been demonstrated by you as well. I'm just wondering about your love for textiles, and where did that come from? I mean, you obviously loved it so much that you pursued going to a different country around that, and it seems to be such an anomaly in terms of your analytical mind. And I think you did mention you liked music. So what's this kind of sense?
Speaker 2:I'm feeling about being very analytical, which I'm thinking relates very nicely to your ability to take on champagne in a way that demonstrated a great palette and also this wonderful creativity. Tell us about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a really good question. Nobody's actually asked me in that way. It was definitely something I wasn't tuned into. Before I met my second husband, I had collected Japanese, a lot of Japanese woodblock prints, and I loved Japanese art, so this was a sort of segue into a different art form. David collected these things called rank badges, these sort of round things that have dragons and birds and things that you see on Chinese roads, and he had a huge collection which he actually gave to the powerhouse in Sydney and it's um.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's quite something, and I remember being on this buying trip with him and being in this um gallery and thinking I would have bought 10 textiles in the amount of time it was taking him to check out one, getting very bored, and I thought I really want him to do this. I don't want him to not be doing it, I don't want to hold him back. So I thought I'll find something that interests me and I saw a tiny, tiny little pair of embroidered shoes, these little slippers, and I didn't know what they were and they were quite expensive, so I didn't buy them. But we crossed across the road to another antique shop in Hollywood Road in Hong Kong and there was a lady there, beatrice, I'll never forget her and she said I used to wrap my uncle's concubine's feet and she said these are bound feet, these are for the little, tiny bound feet. And I got really interested in this whole thing. So I bought a couple of pairs you know tiny and then I did more and more research and of course you know I didn't just collect the textiles, of course I did do something academic. So I've written articles about them and I've given lectures on my collection. I used to go down to Hong Kong and lecture on it. So I ended up with this huge collection of the shoes, the accessories, the little sewing. I can barely sew on a button. I am not a seamstress but I just I love.
Speaker 3:It was the history and the window it gives you into a culture, history and the window it gives you into a culture. So I would start my lectures on the bound feet shoes by saying I don't really support bound feet. It's not about the feet, it's about the shoes, it's about the culture and the window into the culture and the fact that a very sophisticated society did this for a thousand years and produce some of the most exquisite embroidery. So a lot of the embroidery is symbolic. So I liked all the. I liked the symbolism, the meaning. There's things called rebuses where when you put two things together it means something else. So it's sort of visual code.
Speaker 3:So women would embroider their shoes before their wedding and send them to their mother-in-law, who would then look at the shoes and say, yes, beautiful needlework she'll do and it tied in with Confucianism. So the fact that you were obedient, you weren't very mobile, so you had to kind of stay within the home and your needlework showed that you were a dutiful daughter. So it really fitted in with these Confucian ideals that you were this dutiful, quiet, docile woman who wasn't going to be running off anywhere because you couldn't. And that was Confucian society for 1,000 years. It was really very interesting. It's an incredible history.
Speaker 2:And do you still have a lot of those?
Speaker 3:I've still got the shoes yeah, I don't put them out anymore. I used to have this. Revy did one of my houses for me and I had this fabulous display case, but it sort of became a bit out of fashion. So I don't have them out anymore. But I do have other collections as well.
Speaker 2:All I can think about is grade three home economics, yes, and I quite liked the cooking courses, but the needlework courses were just dreadful and I used to get told off all the time, so I don't think I would have been anything dutiful about me had I been in a different culture. I think I would have been rejected by everybody on the basis of what I produced.
Speaker 2:It was just atrocious and I still have been rejected by everybody on the basis of what I produced. Remember the work? Yeah, it was just atrocious and I still have them in my keepsakes and I just always remember those days about home economics. At school so different now we actually did used to sew a needle case, you know, put the needles in on a Wednesday afternoon, or the little pinwheels that the pins went around.
Speaker 2:And my mother was a beautiful seamstress. So for me to be completely not talented at all was probably a bit appalling to my mother. But she was a wonderful seamstress, so was mine, and I'm like you, I can't even sew a button on, so there is no talent in that regard. But tell me about living in China.
Speaker 2:Did this inspire you in terms of different forms of medicine as well? In terms of? You had lots of other interests, but perhaps with your medical career that then followed, do you think that it was part of the culture that really changed what you thought about?
Speaker 3:medicine generally. I did it really, and it wasn't so much because when I went there, tcm, which is what they call it, traditional Chinese medicine wasn't that popular. Strangely enough, the hospital I worked in had a TCM department, but it was literally on the top floor stuck in a broom cupboard and I even said to some of my colleagues oh, you know, what do you think about TCM? And they said, oh, we think it's witchcraft. You know, we don't. They, the Chinese doctors, didn't think much of it. But I was there for seven years and it was interesting because in that period of time I think there was quite a push for China to regain its sort of national identity and its sense of pride and all of a sudden anything Chinese became very, very. They stopped being in awe of Western stuff and they really started to get their Chinese shoes on and TCM became really quite well regarded. So by the time I left it was very popular. But the thing that they were really good at was Chinese embrace, anything new.
Speaker 3:So I worked in a couple of this is what got me going. I worked in a couple of stem cell clinics. So I worked in a couple of and this is what got me going. I worked in a couple of stem cell clinics and that's when I saw the really interesting stuff that was all coming straight from America. Australia's not even on the map in China. So a lot of the US stuff and the European stuff, the Swiss, they really embraced it, they really took it on board. So yeah, I worked for two companies One I worked in an actual doctor-y sense and they were basically doing stem cell rejuvenation, so it was intravenous. And I worked for another clinic where I had to actually masquerade as a Swiss doctor. So it was a lot of that in China, that you pretended to be someone from another. It was a bit awkward at times. I don't know what they thought of my very broad Australian accent, but I had to pretend I was a Swiss doctor at this other company.
Speaker 2:So it was an Australian doctor. You didn't really rank a mention there, but as a Swiss doctor they would listen to you. So what was that all about?
Speaker 3:Well, australia is koala bears and, you know, like a hot climate or barrier reef or something. They don't really see Australia as being a sort of centre of medical excellence at all which it is Whereas somehow in the Chinese mind Switzerland is just like this utopia and medically it's like it cannot be. And one of my girlfriends there was a German surgeon and her husband was a Swiss guy who worked for Novartis and she said you've got to be really careful about pretending you're Swiss. And I said I know, but you know they just keep introducing me as this Swiss doctor. And so that was my last job there and it was basically just a kind of acting modelling job where I just got up and gave talks in English about, you know, stem cells and the research they were doing and then if they had celebrity VIP clients I would inject them with stem cells and it was all very, very strange. But what I really enjoyed about it was it did make me start thinking about different types of therapy and some of the doctors I worked with who trained overseas were really interesting. They'd done these functional medicine courses, so I started looking into it.
Speaker 3:When I got back to Australia I did have a little bit of time on my hands. So before I started back into anesthetics here, I did a couple of courses, started back into anaesthetics here, I did a couple of courses and then when lockdown came and I saw that we were not doing well, I suddenly thought I really, really want to do something different. So for many years doing anaesthetics, especially when I had a lot of very overweight patients or unwell patients, I used to say to my surgeons we're slowly killing ourselves. Then COVID came and I thought we're slowly killing ourselves. Then COVID came and I thought we're quickly killing ourselves.
Speaker 3:We need to get onto this, because it was no secret that a lot of people dying from COVID were overweight or not healthy. I mean, some healthy people died too, but a lot of people were not in the best of health. So that's when I thought I really want to do something totally different. I'd been thinking about this for a while and I thought I'm going to do it. I'm just going to do it because I wasn't working, all my clinics had closed down and because, you know, injecting wasn't an essential service and I was doing a couple of anaesthetic lists, but they were tiny and they closed down. So I had all this spare time, so I retrained myself so what did you birth during that time?
Speaker 3:Oh well, a lot. I discovered that there's no course for this, there's no training course for this in Australia. We unfortunately, even though we do have an excellent standard of medicine, we're some years behind other countries, so there's no possibility to do whatever you want to call it integrative, functional, whatever. So a lot of the doctors practicing this type of medicine, the GPs, who've just got this incredible extensive knowledge, but they have just bolted that onto their practice because they're already seeing lots of patients and there's a couple of little courses you can do, but it's not like anesthetic training or endocrinology or physicians or anything like that. There's nothing formal.
Speaker 3:So I had to find enough stuff that I would educate myself up to a level that I thought was appropriate, which was really hard because you know I was making it up. So it's been interesting. Fortunately, one of my really good friends from Shanghai days she and I sort of always joke that we had parallel careers, so she's younger than me and she's now one of the world's foremost longevity doctors, and so I used her a lot as a resource and she worked for a company that actually set up a training program. So I did their training program, but they're based in Switzerland.
Speaker 2:They really are based in.
Speaker 3:Switzerland, but you're Swiss anyway, so of course it makes you eminently qualified. No problem with the language. Yeah, so that was. That was quite odd, actually. So I've, I've done what I thought I've. You know, I've sort of educated myself sort of up to a level that I think is in line with what the rest of the world is doing, and I have done some basics. I've done a lifestyle medicine course here, as well as a college of nutritional, environmental medicine. So I've done as much as I can here. That's appropriate so. But it's been interesting.
Speaker 3:Certainly when I went and changed my medical registration and my medical defence, nobody had any category for me. So I thought I'd just ring up and say hi, it's me, I'm not doing anaesthetics anymore. Can you just pop me into your integrative, functional, whatever medicine category? And they went we don't have one. And I said well, what about all the other doctors doing this? And they, they went we don't have one. And I said what about all the other doctors doing this? And they said we don't. It's not a lot and they're all GPs and I think there's one physician, so there's no one just doing it as a freestanding specialty.
Speaker 2:So tell me if I so. I've always been intrigued about, I think your practice sort of embodies health and beauty, sort of starting on the inside, or is it? It started off that way? Is that how it started?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it very much started with the, because I know, you know, when I was doing injecting I would get lovely patients coming in, but some of the time I'd think nobody's telling people about holistic health. So, you know, I used to think to myself look, I can put Botox in until we're both blue in the face, but it's not helping your skin. You know, if you're not wearing sunscreen, you're smoking, you're not controlling your weight, you're probably eating a lot of sugar. You know there's no point doing all this. You know, spending thousands of dollars if you're not actually nourishing. So, yeah, I'd always had that sort of aspect.
Speaker 3:And I was really lucky too, because I grew up in the era of Lady, the famous Lady Salento oh my goodness, remember her and my mum was quite a big proponent of that healthy style of living. So we were all these poor kids at school with the brown bread sandwiches and everybody had white sandwiches with Vegemite and we had brown bread with cheese and healthy stuff, and my mum used to make her own bread. She was really ahead of her time and so we just thought healthy food was normal. And I remember when I moved out of home and was living with sharing with other students, as as a student I had, like I think I had a week where I just ate junk and at the end of it I felt so appalling that I thought, oh no, I'm going back to my brown rice and my and I've always eaten very healthily myself and I do think it's, you know, important for the skin and the rest of you. So this kind of dovetailed quite well with just my underlying philosophy of life. Anyway, then my experience as an anesthetist, then my experience as an injector, it all just sort of seemed to, and then COVID, it all just sort of seemed to come to this very logical outcome why don't I have a practice that talks about that for patients?
Speaker 3:And then I, as I sort of did more study, I kind of drifted more into being really interested in longevity and that's what, because I sort of had a moment where I thought, look, this is sort of okay, but I'm not sort of inspired and I can't sort of see anything, that's kind of point of difference. And suddenly I started reading all these things about longevity and I suddenly thought that's interesting, that's the science and this is the cutting edge stuff that interests me. So I don't certainly with my practice I don't want to stray into the. You know no sort of shade on any colleagues, but not that interested in the sort of the herbal remedies or the you know anything a bit sort of weird. I really just want to do evidence-based longevity medicine and it's very niche in Australia as far as I know.
Speaker 3:I think I'm the only person doing it, but it's basically it's not extending your life to 120, giving you 20 extra years in a nursing home. It's because everyone's sort of like oh no, you know, do we need to live longer? You know we don't need more people living longer. What it is is making you productive right until you die with your boots on is what I say to my patients. I want you to be and that's what people used to be like.
Speaker 3:You know, years ago you didn't have all these elderly, frail people in nursing homes. People worked and then they died and I sort of want that for my patients and it's now called healthspan, healthspan, healthspan, healthspan as opposed to lifespan. So, and it's just really good basic principles, but it's it revolves around the way you live. So it's your diet, movement, exercise, it's sleep. It does focus a lot on spiritual and social connection. I do talk to people about toxin load what they've got in their kitchens, their bathrooms, their perfume, their makeup. So I really go right down into areas that other doctors don't have time to talk about. It's almost like I'm super GP, because I really talk to people about everything.
Speaker 2:So do you do. If I came into your clinic and I said, look, I'm really interested in this whole idea of longevity kind of based medicine, is that what I would call it? I'm not sure. I've heard you're doing some work in this. You know what kind of conversation would we have first? Yes, do you analyse everything that I do? Yes, and what do we have first? Yes, do you analyse?
Speaker 3:everything that I do. Yes, okay, I always say to people, I even You're afraid.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're very afraid I do.
Speaker 3:I call it my deep dive. I know deep dive's a bit cliché these days, but I call it.
Speaker 2:I need a sip of champagne. I learn what Sheena's going to talk to me about on my first appointment. I need a sip before I embark.
Speaker 3:So I usually offer my clients two different ways, two different pathways to see me. One is Mr Buy Package, and I won't talk about the finances or anything there, but basically they purchase a package and that includes all interviews with me, all consultations, some testing and diet plan and individualized sort of like a roadmap. Or you can just see me like a normal doctor, just visit to visit either. Whichever way you choose, um, the first visit's usually like a good hour and a half hour and a quarter and I talk to people about everything. So I do a huge fan of diet, so I do a really big dietary history. Because it's amazing the number of patients who say to me nobody has ever asked me what I eat before. And I'm like that's like running a car and and sort of just randomly putting in any petrol that happens to be passing by, and especially with men, the only way I can really sort of communicate with men on that score is I say it's a car, your body is a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. You're not going to get leaded petrol in there, are you? And they go no, I said this is how I want you to think about it. So it's amazing, I think that people haven't been given a lot of information about eating properly. Australia is not too bad, anyway.
Speaker 3:So I do the full, as I said, all those things that I mentioned before. I do that for an hour and a half, then I work out what tests I'm going to do, and I usually do a genetic test just to see. So the genetic test I use is called Lifestyle DNA and that basically looks at it's 110 pages, so it looks at a lot of stuff. It doesn't tell me whether you're Armenian or Chinese or something, but it does tell me how you process carbohydrates, saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats, omega-3s, how you respond to stress. Tells me the number dopamine you know, if you've got lots of dopamine receptors or not. Tells me about cardiovascular health, how you're going to age, if you do have the longevity gene which some people have, uh.
Speaker 3:Tells me how you respond to exercise, how you should exercise. Uh, it's, it's absolutely encyclopedic and for me, the once I've got that, that's the roadmap for me. That tells me how you should be eating, how you should be exercising, how you respond to stress, how you sleep, how you should be sleeping, and a few other genetic things as well Whether you're prone to certain types of cancer. It's really until I've got that. I'm just giving people a general idea. But once you've got that and we now think that genetic information is probably only 20% of the picture, some people say a little bit less, some people say more, but probably 20% is a good working number. 80% is what's called epigenetic change. So that's what you do. So I always say the genes are like a piano that you can either have your two-year-old playing or you can have a maestro Same keys going to sound very different. And I always say that's what you are with your genes. You can either be a two-year-old and just plonking away and making terrible music, or you can play it beautifully.
Speaker 2:And that's what diet, exercise, sleep, et cetera do so now that I have all this information about myself.
Speaker 3:Well, that's just my first test. We also do a microbiome. I'm a huge fan of the gut microbiome. I'm a massive fan of gut health is, again, it's. This might be the piano, but the gut health is the gut microbiome. I'm a massive fan of gut health. Again, this might be the piano, but the gut health is the piano tuner. So, whether or not your keys are being played in tune or not, and I do various other tests, I just do basic blood tests.
Speaker 3:So once we've done all that, I usually do a big dietary plan, talk to people about exercise. I send them off to really good exercise physiologists to get them. They don't have a plan going. If I think they've got anything going on with their sleep, I send them off to a sleep physician for sleep studies and I do work with people. So a lot of what I do after that initial thing is health coaching. So I then get people back and just talk to them about making these changes. But once they've got that roadmap, it kind of gives them. I mean, totally up to them if they follow it, but I strongly encourage people to follow and it's all.
Speaker 3:Again, the microbiome. It comes back and it tells you what we should be eating. So it's really great. And fortunately it usually coincides with the DNA and so I quite often do diet plans, especially for I get a lot of young male patients. So I quite often, with the young men, I'll do a really detailed diet plan, like guys in their twenties and thirties, because this is the cohort that's interested in this stuff. It's these young people.
Speaker 2:Great. I think it's fascinating. We might take a little break because when we return, I want to ask you about perhaps analysing how you've had a role in this new shaping of an experience for your clients or do you call them patients? I call them both, okay, both. I want to ask you about, maybe, what you've learnt about yourself in relation to, well, what have you changed in your behaviours to actually start pursuing more of a longevity style of function and practice?
Speaker 3:You are a very good interviewer. Do that after the break. You've got the best questions.
Speaker 1:Hanworth House turns 160 on the 16th of July this year, so head to hanworthhousecomau, forward slash whatson to see how we are celebrating and how you can be involved. We'd love to see you there and cheers to an incredible milestone.
Speaker 2:So, Sheena, the reason I posed that question was they probably can't ask you about any particular patients and what they've found out as a result of engaging with you, but I really thought it would be lovely to talk to you about what have you found out about yourself in terms of applying some of these new philosophies? And we'll probably kind of preamble that by saying I won't ask you about sexual health and going down that kind of road, but so we'll put that one to the side. What about other things in terms of what you've found?
Speaker 3:Look, it is such a good question and, as I said, you know I sort of grew up in that Lady Salento era and you know brown rice and you know I was kind of a hippie at uni and loved you know I've always loved natural remedies and natural health. So I thought I was actually pretty good. I thought that I was eating quite well and exercising. I thought I was doing all the right things. That was sort of slightly challenged a few years ago when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and that made me sort of think quite a bit about was I really doing as well as I thought in terms of health. So that also got me down a pathway of reading a lot about healthy eating and anti-cancer and all that sort of thing. But I was still quite sceptical. But it was only when I actually started to do sort of quite a lot of academic research into this area and I did courses with organizations in the US and I really looked into the different diets and recommended sort of diets for longevity that I realized I wasn't. I was doing an awful lot of like. I was eating pretty well but I was sneaking in a lot of stuff. Like you know, I was having little chocolates and you know sausage rolls, rolls. You know like I'd treat myself and I suddenly realized I was doing this a lot and I probably was only eating well, like maybe 60% of the time, and the other thing I wasn't doing was sort of adding in enough, like you know, fiber, so vegetables, and you know I've never been a big fruit and vegetable person. I'm sort of probably more probably a bit paleo in some ways, and I did do the paleo diet for a while, but I switched over completely to actually straight Mediterranean diet, which is the one diet that just comes out on top every single time in terms of longevity, no questions asked. I just went out and bought all the stuff. So now I eat a lot more pulses and lentils and chickpeas and lots of salad.
Speaker 3:I keep protein Protein's a conflicted area. There are some people that think we eat too much protein. There are some people think we don't eat enough protein. It's particularly important in terms of aging and preventing frailty. Frailty is just loss of muscle, so we really like our older people to eat protein.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I really smartened up my diet and I exercised a lot more because I thought that my gentle walks were pretty good and my occasional ballet bar or Pilates, and I realized I wasn't doing enough either. So it really, and my sleep was all over. You know, typical doctor I was, you know I was so used to being on call. I think I went for years with like four or five hours sleep a night and you know I was very much from that era when people sort of said I can get by with you, you know, four hours sleep a night, which I did for years, and you know, one of my husband and I were on call, so one of us was up and down and I suddenly realised my sleep patterns were atrocious and I was just used to getting by with minimal sleep.
Speaker 3:So I paid a lot of attention and in fact I listened to a podcast this morning that said, if you're, you know, as a scientist who runs this sort of lab in North America, she said if you're really going to pick one thing, pick sleep. Now I've always said to people if you're going to pick one thing, pick exercise. And I still believe that. But she said there's evidence to show that it's not even sleep duration, it's sleep regularity. So same time at night, same time in the morning, so it's not even just I'm getting eight hours or whatever. If those eight hours are all over the shop as well, it is devastating. She said there's not one part of your health that poor sleep doesn't touch, including things like cardiovascular disease, cancer, heart disease, that type of thing. So it's draconian. So, yes, I really tightened up my sleep.
Speaker 3:Again, the social and spiritual I think I'd always placed a high value on them, but it just made me realize legitimize perhaps this as being more important. And again, the toxin load. Again, perhaps this has been more important. And again the toxin load. Again, you tend to think that if products are being sold, that they've been tested and that they're okay. And I discovered that most products aren't tested and that we just have this massive toxin load without realising. It's like a, not an experiment in a sinister sense, but post-World War II, when we became much more industrialised, we just get so many more chemicals into our bodies. And this is the first time in the history of humankind that we've just sort of had this massive onslaught of chemicals that nobody's actually tested. And I think that's responsible for an awful lot of our issues at the moment and I think it's going to be very hard to turn that tide back. So, yeah, so for me it was. It was a really interesting journey and I and also alcohol I've obviously been very keen on the you know, the champagne thing and always I grew up in a household where my mum always had a glass of wine with dinner learned how to drink responsibly and always loved it.
Speaker 3:You know, for me it was part of my life, but that's another thing. I've really despite the fact I enjoy it when I have it, but I don't drink that often I regard alcohol as a condiment, something I sprinkle on fun occasions Like today, Like today, but I don't have it all the time. It's like you wouldn't have ice cream every day. Well, some people would, but I wouldn't. Yeah, so you know alcohol as well. I've sort of changed my relationship with that a little. Yeah, it's been really good for me and actually I feel really good, I feel really healthy and I didn't get COVID.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a a claim to fame these days. I mean, most people have had it once or twice and there's only a few. Even my husband is one of those and he says I've probably had it, but I didn't know it. But he was saying the same thing, but it's a real educational experience. It sounds to me Very.
Speaker 2:Working with you and working, in a sense, around issues around longevity and understanding how one thing affects another in your body, which I think is a really different way of a doctor-patient consultation, isn't it in terms of our more traditional GP sense?
Speaker 3:And I do. You know. I say to people this is different in every single way. It's not you coming in to see me and me telling you what to do. It's I put you in the driver's seat. I make you responsible for your health because you know, when you think about it, you might you come and see me one day out of 365. I'm not with you the other 364. And in fact you only see me for an hour maybe. So I do see my patients quite regularly. I try to see them every three to four months, but I really do aim to make people proactive and making good choices and feeling.
Speaker 3:You know the old days of the patriarchy of. You know med school like even when I went through it was very much. You know the patients could only know certain things. You had to hide things from patients because you had to preserve the mystique of medicine and I remember then sort of thinking it's for the birds, like. You know, the more we tell people and I'm a huge educator, I love education so I think the more you educate people, the better it is for all of us. Like, the more we all know about everything, the better things will run.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to take advantage of the fact that I've got a great educator here with us today. A Zenpick, yes or no?
Speaker 3:Zenpick's got a lot of work around it for some very interesting things. As well as diabetes and the obvious weight loss, I think the exciting things for a Zenpic are more to do with, again, longevity and to do with cardiovascular disease dementia. There's some links there that Ozempic might prevent dementia. Whether this is a separate action of Ozempic or whether this is related just to the weight loss and the blood sugar control, we don't completely know. I personally don't like it for my patients If they just want to lose a small amount of weight. It's not appropriate and it's very hard to come off. It's very hard to get off Ozempic again. So I think I would regard Ozempic very much like a diabetic medication, like insulin or a high blood pressure medication. If you really need it, I think it is a good idea. But I wouldn't just put someone on insulin for the fun of it and I wouldn't put someone on just to lose a few kilos. So yes, and no asking for friends asking for friends.
Speaker 2:I also think there's a lot of bad kind of issues and that you hear so much in media these days like intermittent fasting. Yes, it didn't work for me. I did try it, yes, and yet I live my life like I'm on one giant intermittent fast. It was an easy lifestyle for me to have. Yes, I'm very good at going a long time without food, but it just did nothing. No weight came off. So what's your feeling around intermittent?
Speaker 3:fasting. That's exactly what most people say, and in fact, there's a very well-known doctor called Peter Atiyah who works in the US and he has a fabulous podcast. His podcasts are two hours like you really need a lot of time and he's released a book, thank God, so it's a lot easier to read. And he talks about this in his book because one of the reasons that we think intermittent fasting is good is not just weight loss. It gives the body time to repair and sort of eat up all the dead cells and sort of like, get rid of all the junk, take out the trash, whereas when you're just eating constantly, the body doesn't have time to do that. I also did intermittent fasting for ages. I felt quite tired a lot of the time. I didn't lose any weight. Yeah, I'm in two minds very much about intermittent fasting. My current position is that I don't recommend it because I don't think it does anything much for people. I think it's better to, and in fact, when people come to see me, I think they're often surprised because I get people to eat more, not less. I think we've got a problem where people aren't eating enough food, which might sound weird. Sound weird, but I actually certainly in terms of the microbiome and the genome. I encourage more food, so diversity, particularly big range of food, not huge quantities, but just more diversity and more sort of more choice, abundance. So you know, I try and sort of instill in people that eating should be this joyous occasion and I'm always saying to people make every meal value add.
Speaker 3:I think if you are going to do and in fact what I'm more interested in is something called caloric restriction, which is sort of the other side of intermittent fasting.
Speaker 3:So intermittent fasting is just eating within a time window, it does suit a lot of people, it is easy to do, but again, I just don't know if it's having the benefits that we want.
Speaker 3:So I think if you really want to see those benefits of the it's called my autophagy and autophagy where the body is destroying all the old cells it doesn't need, I think you're probably just better off having maybe a weekend where you do a little juice fast or a little, you know, have veggie broths or something for a weekend. I think like two or three days is what's needed to really kick that into action and the rest of the time just eat really well and really diversely, but just not a lot. And the other thing too if you look at societies where fasting is really common, like Indian and all sorts of other Islamic societies, when they do do their fasting they eat in the morning and then they'll eat quite early and then they'll not eat for the rest of the day. But most cultures have a good breakfast and then a decent lunch and then a small dinner, and I think that's the way to go.
Speaker 2:Do you yeah?
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 2:I think that would be my ultimate lifestyle would be to do that. I think it makes a lot of sense just from a lifestyle perspective. It's difficult in our environment, I think, to have that. We all have this particular way of raising families and children.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:You know we've been, I guess, educated that you know we have a meal together at night. But I think it makes so much more sense that you've got more activity around the kind of heavy part of the day whenever you're actually having the bigger meal.
Speaker 3:That's it. Well, that's what I found is that you know, when I was because I was always, you know, brought up with a breakfast got to have a solid breakfast before you go to school, uni, or whatever the breakfast. You've got to have a solid breakfast before you go to school, uni, or whatever. And then when I cut breakfast out, I was literally dragging myself to lunch and thinking I had no energy. So I've, I actually sent my friend Michael a text you know, michael, you know because he's a gastroenterologist and I said I think that breakfast is a new breakfast and I think it's just so much better for you. You know your blood glucose and your biomes and I just think it's. Yeah, it's funny, it's one of those old adage, old housewives, adage, things that you sort of think actually there is some truth in it. So, yes, I've reintroduced.
Speaker 3:And there's actually a famous guy called David Sinclair who's the father of longevity medicine. And he's actually a famous guy called David Sinclair who's the father of longevity medicine, and he's actually an Aussie, he's a scientist, he's a geneticist who's now got this big research facility at Yale and he's a big fan of one meal a day, which I've also tried. And that is really punishing, because all you think about is food for at least 12 hours and then you have this meal and it's like huge because you've got to get enough nutrition in that one meal. But I discovered that he actually does have a breakfast. He has yogurt with berries, which I think is almost like the ideal breakfast.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I mean I can't breakfast like a king, you know, lunch like a queen or that sort of thing, but I do try and have something for breakfast and I do try and have something for lunch and the really, you know, the message, as I said, that I have for all my patients is make it nice. You know, don't have some sad protein shake or something out of a packet. Just put something on some toast. You know, get the best you can afford and even if it's just some avocado with some seeds and you know, a little bit of hazelnut oil or just something to jazz it up, just try and value out every meal. Just think what else. You know what else can I throw onto this? So, and I'm not a fan of smoothies either, because I think we need to chew. I think our ancient ancestors chewed, and food is metabolised completely differently if you chew it rather than whir it in a blender.
Speaker 2:Well, that's an interesting perception. I'm going to have a whole new relationship with my green smoothie tomorrow. Now, after you're saying that I need to chew it, I'll just put all the celery and stuff and the spinach and I'll take an hour to go to work tomorrow.
Speaker 3:That's right. We have the green vegetables Exactly Hold on, exactly Well. I did green smoothies for ages and I have to say it's fabulous for your skin because you're just getting so much greenery. But again, we sort of think that I can't remember what they're called, but they're little packets that the nutrition in, like nuts and seeds and plants, it comes in little wee packets, you know, in the cells and all that sort of thing, and we think that when you chew you can't completely break the packets down because they're quite fibrous. So when you absorb the food you you get most of the nutrition but not all.
Speaker 3:But it's sort of like in a time release. So it's like a time release capsule. Like you know, some medications, a stage like that, is designed to sort of release slowly as it goes through various parts of the gut. And we think that this is what happens with food. You know we start the process with chewing and it goes down to the stomach and certain things happen. Then it goes to the small bowel and the large intestine and that's where a lot of the action happens, with toxins and various hormones and vitamins being absorbed or not absorbed or manufactured or whatever.
Speaker 3:So it's quite complex. But we think that if things are in these little packets, that's what they're meant to, that's their little time release, whereas when we blitz them, they're all out there and they get into the stomach and perhaps get absorbed differently. So, yeah, and even things like the fats in nuts, if you just eat nuts, you will absorb far less, because people because I'm a big fan of nuts they're associated with longevity and you're always like, oh, I'm going to put on weight, but in fact you only get about 30% to 60% of the fats if you just eat them normally as opposed to blending them.
Speaker 2:Gosh. I'm learning so much today, so I have one other kind of conversation lots of people are having about full-body MRIs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're really interesting. I think if money was no object and we had MRI scanners whirring hot on every corner and we had a massive healthcare surplus where we could just afford this, and we had loads and loads and loads of genetic counsellors and oncologists, it would be great. But they're expensive. I mean they're not outrageously expensive, but I think for everyone to have them. But it's like all these tests, when you do it, you've they're expensive. I mean they're not outrageously expensive, but I think for everyone to have them. But it's like all these tests, when you do it, you've got to be prepared to deal with the knowledge.
Speaker 3:And it's that question. It's the same when I do the DNA test, which a lot of people would be a little bit like whoa, you know why are you doing this DNA thing? For me, it's my roadmap. But I think, yeah, we're always taught when we're interns like don't you know? Only order a test if it's going to change the outcome.
Speaker 3:So this would be a test where, if I saw something, what would I do? Would I say to a patient look, we've picked up something in your spine. Um, that means you might have a secondary answer. Gosh, now we've got to go looking for a primary. So that would mean you know biopsies and colonoscopies, and you know it would mean a lot of other tests, and it's a really interesting question that we've had in medicine for a long time. It's this question of false positives and breast cancer, particularly because that's been so well researched. But is it really worth doing a lot of investigating to get results that perhaps aren't actually positive but put the patient through a lot of testing to sort of find that out? If I have a patient who wants it, I don't talk them out of it, I just give them a. You know, write them up for it. But very few of my patients have asked for it so far. They do ask for some interesting things, though.
Speaker 2:I can imagine what's the most interesting thing you've ever been asked for.
Speaker 3:Well, I get a lot of people asking me for things called DEXA scans, which are like the scans we use for bone density and they're really good because they tell you the amount of fat you've got and where it is and whether it's visceral or you know. I don't want to know the answer to that. No, I don't want that answer either. And I say to people unless you're an elite athlete, it's really not going to change my management of you and I can tell. After you know, 30 years of being in an operating theatre and putting people off to sleep, I can guess people's weight quite accurately, and I can also guess pretty accurately how much of that is fat, because that actually pertains to how much anaesthetic we give them. So I'm sort of pretty good at guessing that there's going to be a certain amount of fat. So, yeah, look, if people really want it again, I can send them off somewhere that will do it, but I don't offer it as a routine service.
Speaker 2:Well, as my elite athletic days are probably over or, perhaps, more realistically, never actually began. I think that that's been a fascinating conversation, sheena. Thank you so much for sharing all of that today, but let's go and talk about something that I do understand just a little bit of how, about the world of philanthropy and giving, because I do know.
Speaker 2:Actually, before I do that, I have to remark on two things. Lady Salento's niece lived at Hanworth when we bought it 10 years ago. I know so what an interesting connection with us. Of course, we've both had breast cancer, sadly, another another connection as well, but I was just going to share that with you because I don't think you knew they were actually renting the house from the Anglican Church of Australia, and so there's another little connection there.
Speaker 2:But let's go back to philanthropy and doing good for the community which you're very good at and I think I might hop back to your absolute interest in the arts. You said you were very creative. We can see that in your love of textiles and you said, I think at the very beginning of our chat today, how interested you were in music.
Speaker 3:I do, I must admit. When we were growing up we had music lessons, like kids did or do. And I always joke to my brother, who is an actual musician, who played with the Adelaide Symphony for many years. I always joke that I always thought I was a musical child because I was really good at the piano, I was really good at ballet, I loved all that sort of stuff. But I would rather gnaw my leg off than perform publicly. I really do not have that performance thing, whereas my brother's excellent. So yeah, but I still love music.
Speaker 3:And when I came back from China, I realised that I had to stay in Brisbane because I had quite long-term treatment and I thought, well, I never thought I'd come back to Brisbane, I thought I'd left Australia actually, and I thought, well, you know, I'm here, I'll put something back in. I'm, that's just how I think. I thought, well, you know, if you stuck it, you've got to do something. So I, long story short, I sort of looked around for something to do and I thought, well, one way you can really support the arts is to get a group of people together and if they just put some money in, it makes a decent chunk of money for an artist. So I spoke to various arts bodies and I eventually ended up with the conservatorium for a few years and then COVID hit, got a bit sort of difficult. But lately we've just so I've got about seven or eight people in this group. They're call arts assets and we just put, you know, $1,000 in each year and there's some doctors and there's some non-doctors, but it just means that there's like a decent sum of money and then we can sort of choose what we're going to do for that particular year.
Speaker 3:So this year we're looking at the QSO Academy, which is this fabulous thing that's been set up by Immance Larsons, who's one of the cellists. He's a principal cellist with QSO and it's students from QSO and from the Conservatorium Sorry, from Queensland Uni Music Department and Conservatorium. So it's been very hard because they're traditionally always very separate. So we went to a concert at the end of last year and it was just fabulous. So these young kids are already playing a little bit with the orchestra. But they're also looking at jobs interstate. So it gives them master classes and interview practice and all the stuff that I had when I was a trainee as a as an anaesthetist. It's like a registrar program but a little bit short.
Speaker 3:So probably supporting that, and I also support some projects at UQ in the medical side of things, for me philanthropy is just a no-brainer. It's like I don't know nobody else in my family is particularly, but for me it's just a I don't know, just it's like gives me the most pleasure. It's ridiculous. My accountant hates me because I feel I really enjoy giving money to people. Don't ask me why, but it's just for me. It's just like what you do, it's like service and you know, I think for me, me, service is just like a very big thing is, and that's why I like this area of medicine that I'm in. It's it's just making people their best selves and it's, you know, for me it's like serving the community. You know, if we can get all these people healthy and functioning well and not taking up resources, then job, job, well done and I thought, from a very kind of, uh, strategic perspective, we started the conversation around winston churchill, didn't we?
Speaker 2:and one of the most beautiful quotes is you make a living by what you get, but you make a life by what you give. And I thought how apt it was to bring winston back into our conversation, because being the Winston Churchill champagne is my favourite. I wonder if there's a bit of his kind of sentiment in there, because that's always a quote that I've lived by.
Speaker 3:I did not know that.
Speaker 2:Quote from him. I think that's just a lovely way to bring that conversation around giving and getting to a beautiful kind of close Before we ask two wonderful questions that we ask of all of our guests, and I'm always intrigued and excited about what I'm going to hear. But you seem to be the effervescent young child. But what would you like to be when you grow up?
Speaker 3:I gave some thought to this question and still didn't have much of an answer. Apart from wanting to be Quentin Bryce when I grow up, I think everybody wants to be Quentin. It's such a good question but I don't have a particularly ready answer, but hopefully just a more well-rounded and educated and sort of kind version of today. I regard myself very much as a work in progress. So yeah, there's no specific person but just a.
Speaker 2:You know, what is it about Quentin that attracts you as a kind of remark about? I just want to be Quentin. Price yes.
Speaker 3:Well, to me she just embodies that graciousness as well as clearly a brilliant mind. But the thing that I love about her is because I know one of her daughters quite well, revy is the generosity that she allows her children to be themselves. She's allowed them to create their own careers and she's just so supportive of people I mean very much women, as we know, but just supportive of people in their journey, and I know she's got tremendous sort of other achievements. Of course we know that. But there's just a kind of kindness and bigness about her personality that I just really love. And when I say big, I don't mean like a loud, noisy big personality, I mean just that sort of I don't know, I can't I'm looking for the word, but graciousness, she's just grace Class act.
Speaker 2:She is, and there's a Quentin room at Hanworth named after her. So again, we're kind of drawing the connections back to the house, which was the reason we met, which is the reason we're here today. And life's like that, isn't it?
Speaker 3:in lots of ways, yeah, and I love those little connections and serendipities and I've always had them, ever since I was a kid. I was quite intrigued that things would sort of loop back on themselves and sort of interrelate. I've always loved that aspect of life I agree, you're very into analysis and patterns, I think so on that pattern.
Speaker 2:Note what brings you happiness.
Speaker 3:I think giving other I know this sounds horribly corny Pollyanna-ish, but making other people happy really is my thing. I really like getting people well. That makes me extremely happy and, yeah, I really like people to be comfortable and and calm and happy in themselves. That that's really my thing.
Speaker 2:I love that well, there's nothing wrong with Pollyanna and I think, on that note, I'd love to use the beautiful Pollyanna, which is one of my favorite books as a child. I've still got my hard copy plastic covered editions. My mother used to cover all my past my books in plastic and I've still got the one. I think when I was seven I got that book, which is a long time ago now, and it was one of my favorite books, along with Anne of Green Gables when I was growing up. I was massive, me too.
Speaker 3:Just devoured those books, me too.
Speaker 2:So, on that very happy note, with our beautiful glass of champagne, sheena, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, sharing your wonderful gems of wisdom with us and giving us all, I think, something to think about.
Speaker 3:It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us and for making it this far. We have a special treat for you Head to hanworthhousecomau forward slash podcast to get your hands on Dr Sheena's top 10 tips for longevity. To make an appointment for specialised help, you can head to ultimatehealthcliniccomau. All these links will be in the episode description. We hope you enjoyed our chat with Dr Sheena Burnell today and, as usual, if you have any questions, you can send them through to podcast at hanworthhousecomau. We'll be back soon with another special guest. Cheers, cheers.