Find your squad: Reflections of ASCEND Graduates

The ladies talk with ASCEND graduates Johnika Dreher from Kent State University, Malia Jones from Elon University, and Ria Woods White from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University about their experiences participating in AACRAO’s ASCEND program and their reflections on how it has helped them think about their current and future professional opportunities. AACRAO’s ASCEND program, “. . .aims to diversify the leadership in the enrollment management profession by recruiting and developing a diverse cohort of mid-level professionals and preparing them to take on roles in enrollment management in North America and around the globe.” Johnika, Malia, and Ria also talked about what brought them to the program, how they balance all the things, and the importance of “finding your squad” as one navigates the higher education landscape.

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You're listening to her higher education and real diversity, a podcast sponsored by Acro. On this episode, we spoke with Jica Dreer from Kent State University. Malia Jones from Elon University and Rio Woods White from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University about their experiences participating in acros the Sun program. So we talked about the highlights of the program itself, the importance of mentorship and sponsorship and networking and their professional journeys. It was a really fun conversation and we hope you enjoy it. Let's get started. Hi, Acro community. Welcome to another episode of her.-- I'm Tashana-- Curtis. I'm Porsha Lamar-- and I'm Ingrid-- Nuttall. And I would like to welcome Janica Malia and Ria-- to the podcast today.-- Hello, everybody. Welcome ladies. Hello. Hello, hello. We all allow Jica to go ahead and introduce herself. First, Janica. Nothing like somebody else lifting you up. That's great. Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Jica Dreer and I identify with the pronouns. She and her, I am currently the executive director for pre-college programs at Kent State University. I consider myself an organizational development practitioner with 20 years of experience enhancing work, workplace continuity, creativity and effectiveness to deconstruct the work and personal systems that counteract well being for us. That's a little bit about me. I also teach yoga.-- So that's a-- fun fact. Oh, that's nice. I feel relaxed. Already hearing your introduction. Janica Yay. I can go next. Uh, my name is Malia Jones. I am currently the registrar at Elon University's School of Law. Uh, I'm a native of Richmond, Virginia. Um, been in North Carolina for a while now. Um, I've worked in the registrar's office for over 10 years in, uh, various, uh positions. I am an advocate of, uh, de I and technology innovation in registrar offices that are very student centered. Um, you know, they always ask for a fun fact and then you can't think of one when they ask you for one. So I don't have a fun fact right now. But thank you so much for having me. Um, I'm really, really glad to be here with you all today. Now, let me find out that you went to Juilliard or you performed on Hamilton Cast. I'm gonna be so mad. No, but I was classically trained in ballet and piano for the fun fact. Right. I was classically trained. I mean, just that good afternoon. My name is Ria Woods White. I serve as the Associate Registrar of Co operations at Ember Aeronautical University's Worldwide Campus here in sunny Daytona Beach, Florida. I've been in higher education for about 22 years. Been with the university for about 90 working on about 19 years now um had become very passionate about uh higher education after my undergraduate uh degree, completing my undergraduate degree. Um but kind of been in love with the industry for many, many years. Um I also serve as an adjunct instructor here at the University at the Daytona Beach campus. Um On a personal note, I uh am a recent, I've been recently become an empty nester and uh my husband and I are enjoying um opportunities to uh travel and get out a bit. Um And so, uh we'll see where this uh takes me um looking at adopting a new hobby or finding something else to do other than working 1012 hour days. Thank you for having me, ladies. Thank you. Thank you to Shana. Since this is a podcast, I want to call out that when Ria said that she was an empty nester, you raised the roof with your hands because I'm recently empty nester too.-- Very-- good. Congratulations. Same-- to you. I-- mean, is it a roller coaster? Do you go like? Yeah, y'all excited now, but is it going to be a moment in which you're like? Oh, I miss them probably so, but I'm not there yet. So honestly, yes, I have, I have been on a roller coaster 2022. Was that roller coaster here for me? Um My son attended in Beretto uh for his undergraduate degree and so he was, you know, right at home and then he got a job with Amazon and moved off to Tennessee and then it was like, no, really, nobody's here. The ho the house is echoing. And, um, you know, I was like, ok, what do I do with all of this time? Because I'm a basketball mom. So we spent, you know, countless days and nights in somebody's stinky gym. Um, and now it's like, I crave a stinky gym, but I'm OK. Um I'm OK, podcast title. I crave a Stinky gym. Yes,-- you are-- giving us all the one liners, Ria. Thank you. So I know that the three of you recently graduated from Acros Ascend program. Um Can you give us a little background on what exactly that is? I'd be happy to uh this is Ria. Um the purpose of the Ascend program uh or its inception by AC O was to create a leadership program for mid-level uh managers in the areas of admissions, advising financial aid records and academic services. Uh Their goal is to diversify leadership within the context of enrollment management. Um So I would say that they have done a tremendous job with putting together the send program. Um It's very engaging. I thoroughly enjoyed the um meetings and meeting uh just different individuals and not only enrollment management but in higher education as well. Um I had uh uh again, a very positive experience. My mentor was absolutely phenomenal. Um And then I would say the program had a tremendous um effect on me because it helped me to remove certain blinders that um I would say was there before I completed the Ascend program. Um Whenever I would go to a meeting, I would always look at opportunities or issues from a perspective of the registrar's office instead of looking at it more holistically um to incorporate all areas of enrollment management. So, um it, it kind of helped me peel off the blinders in regards to that. Um uh And this is a direct result of the uh final project was which was uh for us to create a, a strategic enrollment plan. Um It made you kind of look at everything from a bird's eye view um from uh uh enrollment management and just and bringing in students and providing that um fulfilling student experience. So, um oftentimes departments tend to operate siloed. Um And I think it's more important that we in an effort to meet organizational goals um work as cross functional teams as opposed to individual departments. Were you um Rio, were you uh did you apply to this on your own or were you? Um I cannot think of the word I recommend it. I applied on my own. Um And that is a result of uh I consider myself a not only a people person, but I'm also a people, a studier of people. I like to watch people and engage with them and, and see how they think and how they learn and how they interact. And um when it comes to having coworkers, I try to understand kind of the perspective in which they look through their lens and um peel off some of the positives um if any to incorporate in my approach to my work day or work life or um uh working on a particular project. So I went to my boss and asked him to participate in the program and he happily agreed to sponsor me, Malia. Do you wanna, can you give us a little background on your experience with the SN program?-- Sure.-- Um So the SN program was brought to my attention by my university uh registrar, uh Doctor Ronnie Parks, who is um very heavily involved in AC O and he kind of brought it to attention to our whole office and I actually full transparent transparency. I waited until the last minute to apply because I was so on the fence and trying to just um get information. And it was kind of like, how can I juggle this with work because I just finished grad school a year ago and it kind of sounded like another mini grad program. So I was a little unsure at first, but um the mentors and everyone is in part of the program, have done a tremendous job with um recognizing that we all have a work life balance and just giving us the flexibility in the program to um you know, juggle work and personal life in the program. So we were able to um you know, have that guidance and support that we really needed for the assignments that we had to submit periodically. And they were really good in working with us um If we had to turn in something late, um but they are really good also with providing feedback for the different assignments that we had throughout the program. Um As Ria mentioned, uh we had to create a strategic enrollment plan and so they were very good in providing support for that. And that was something that was really uh important for me because I, as Ria kind of mentioned, I also was kind of new to um the enrollment management side. I've been in the registrar's office for over 10 years. Um So I've had a little experience with, you know, working with an enrollment management director and then the other areas of admissions and financial aid, but I've never gotten into the um the nitty gritty, so to speak of how all of those offices and pieces come together in enrollment management. Um So for me, it was, it was very good to be able to kind of push me to delve deeper into those areas of how they connect and how they all work together um and be a little bit more innovative in um in broadening my horizons and how to think of enrollment management as a whole instead of siloed in registrar and admissions and, and financial aid and, and new student programs in areas like that. Shanika. Would you like? Can you share your experience with the Sun? Sure. Thank you. One of the quotes that I took away that kind of surmises for me even summarizing what Malia and Ria were saying and how we perceived the program comes from Don Clifton, the author, the author of Strength Quest. And he has a quote where he says, what will happen when we think about what's right with people versus what's wrong. And when I think about ascend, I enter through a mission. So I'm a little bit different from Malia and Rio, which is awesome because they accept between I think 10 and 12 cohort members and we span across all of enrollment services, the various niches and competencies. So you'll have someone from articulation or someone from transfer or someone from graduation. We just so happen to have more registrars um than admissions. But it was always very impactful for you to learn from other individuals and cross the aisle so that you can see from different lenses for me ascend, helped me reser my mindset. Honestly, I believe that I was in a professional rut and there was no clear development pathway I think for certain people who are mid-level and long term professional staff. And at my institution, my former institution, which is where I started the program, I had been there for 12.5, 13 years. Uh One of the senior members in the recruitment and admissions. Um There were some, I would say turnover that we had with leadership. Uh We were seeking a vice president for strategy. Um A lot of individuals didn't know enrollment management. So where do you get your knowledge from individually? I think that as humans, when we come to the workplace, we can place unrealistic expectations in that environment for it to be say a safe space or a place for growth or a place for development. But they're human beings just like us and strategic enrollment management, enrollment management, admissions recruitment, it's still really developing and there's a lot changing with um the higher education landscape right now. So registrar will probably be the most sane and consistent but also insane at times, right? Space where you know, there are forms to be done, there's things to be processed. Uh And we do have new things that are happening in the registrar space but emissions just changes from, are we out in the field? Are we in the field? Um What are our numbers? What are our metrics? So um one is not better than the other, but I think when you don't have leadership that can tell you what that is, you can feel like I'm running in circles and I'm getting very exhausted. The focus then for institutions often is on execution of tasks and it doesn't leave room for creativity and then you feel exhausted, you know, maybe this is where the great resignation really got it stride because individuals were taken aback and then hr is often limited in resources and in scope to develop you because what is a missions, you know, they have recruitment for hr but that's not recruitment for students. So how does one teach you if you don't know? And I actually was realigned institutionally to recruitment and admissions, having no form of recruitment, admissions background. I wasn't a recruiter. Um I just did great work in first year experience and orientation. And my institution decided that orientation should be at the front door very much. It, it should have been, but there was no training. So you have to think that certain professional associations like Acro um and others have a huge purpose, but sometimes they can be expensive or sometimes you have to ask for sponsorship and mentorship to engage in those. Um Sometimes you have to fight to, to even participate because you haven't shown something or you're brand new to the institution for whatever means. Sometimes it's very difficult to get to the niche organization which can help you develop more as a professional. So enter then a sin. And I think what then does is it recognizes that there is a voice for mid-level professionals and what they do is they truly answer the call. And Ria Superbly described this, it is an intense year long experience. But for me, it molded and it guided and it supported me as a mid-level professional. When I I can say this today, it was a midlife career crisis. You know, I was fine as a person but as a professional, it was where do I go? Is there a role for me to be promoted? What's happening at the institution for me to move up or advance? Am I contributing to the institution in a way that's viable? Do I see my own value? Have I updated my resume lately? And if I do, I am not cheating on the institution and it doesn't mean that I want to leave, but maybe I want to refresh and I almost needed permission. And I think that's what a sin did because it said we see you mid-level professional and this is we recognize that this is a trend it's been studied and let's make it better for you because we want you to progress to another level, whether it be senior leadership or whether it be um at another institution or whether it be um outside of the field, but still using the principles of strategic enrollment management to make another organization better.-- So-- uh that, I mean, jeez, we all need to ascend in our lives. Um But for those that may not be able to attend or may not have the backing of their institution and support from their institution, what is like a tool that you can use when you do fill that rut. Did, did, did a sin give you a toolbox of, of things that you can revert back to um to get yourself out of that rut of feeling as if uh w what am I doing here? I think a lot of the things that I've researched around quiet quitting and the great resignation are the tools one. We put a lot into our institutions and I think that's unrealistic. So doing a values assessment is huge, doing a 360 assessment is huge asking your staff and those around you. How am I doing? Where do you see value for my contribution? Where can I grow change um and modify my behavior, professional organizations such as maybe local or state ones, if you're a mid-level professional, I'm sure that you've done something around a theme within your particular niche. So if we're in enrollment management, I'm sure I have a best practice, but I'm afraid of sharing it. But there are best practice conferences. There are, you know, local conferences there, there are different ways that you can show up in a professional organization to walk away from your day to day workplace and give those strengths to someone else, whether it be their marketing committee or their communication committee or they're seeking a leader and you've been wanting to be a leader, but maybe you can't progress in your current role and that's fine. But you can have this executive board leadership with, you know, a Aro or Capac Ro. So there are opportunities for us to extend without putting that pressure on our job. And without thinking that we're less than I actually have a question for Malia. I know um you brought up the word mentors and the work life balance. And I know we talked about on this podcast about sponsorship and mentorship. Um So with Ascend, can you talk about the different ways that they both have impacted your career or will help you in the future? So, with us, and uh we were all assigned a mentor um in the program, whether that was um someone that was at a um higher management level or someone that was, you know, directly um working with uh Acro and, you know, still has that experience. So, um for me and all the mentors are great, of course, my mentor was, was great as well and it was good to have that one on one personal guidance of how to navigate your career from a mid-level as, as Janica was kind of mentioning from mid-level to an upper level and just to have that one on one um discussions about, you know, how to navigate that, what things you maybe need to watch out for, what other um things you can do to develop professionally. Um Mentors were also able to uh look at and give feedback on the different assignments we have and try to talk to us about, you know, what our values and strengths um were professionally. Um So it was really good to have that, that connection with someone in the program because I think a lot of times we try to maybe have someone mentor us on our jobs. And that's a little different when you, it's a little different when you can connect with someone and have them mentor you outside of your own workplace because they're bringing a broader perspective um to you. So that was definitely a benefit um within the program. And I think that's how it was different from just kind of finding your own mentor on your own because you have someone bringing a different background and experience um to you. And then so a sin focus on mentorship, but there's also sponsorship and sponsorship kind of varies a little bit from that as in sponsorship looks more to have you have an advocate in the room for you when you're not there. So I kind of look at mentorship as like the parent who is kind of guiding you and giving you instructions and direction. But if you can find someone to sponsor you, that's like your friend that has your back, even when you're not there. So a, a sponsor is going to, if you're not in the room and someone is bringing up an opportunity, they can speak up for you and say, hey, I have Malia or R or Jica here that works in this office. I think she would be really good to, you know, help handle this project. Um And that's what a sponsor is really gonna uh do for you. Um, in the se we focus more on the, the mentorship, but I think it's important to have both a mentor and a sponsor and maybe even more than one if possible because there's different ways that they can help navigate um your career and your development. Uh A sponsor is gonna maybe be able to, like I said, if they're speaking in the room, when you're not there, they're gonna be able to maybe help open the door in a different way for different opportunities for you to grow professionally, whether that be in your current role in your current environment or maybe even, you know, in another job um somewhere else, but they're going to put the, put what you're trying to do into action and get you into those better spaces um in action, not just say, not just, you know, with words, but actually moving you into, you know, those different spaces where you can grow professionally. I was gonna ask Zaria the question of for a, you uh a young person coming into this profession, how do you, what is your advice on? How would they get a sponsor or a mentor? What is your advice for new profession? A new professional, uh my advice to um new professionals or, uh, those new to enrollment management would be to, uh, build your network. Uh, that's the first thing, build your network, um, engage with all those that you can. Um, I have a, um, I have been given a nickname of the mayor, uh, because I find myself, um, just engaging with individuals that I wouldn't normally engage with. So, persons outside of my department, persons in, uh, departments that I, it, uh, Red Star's office doesn't necessarily have a connection too. But I'm, I, I make it my business to engage with everyone. I make it my business to acknowledge as many people and build as many connections as I can um while I'm at work and even in my personal life as well, um It's just really important, I can't stress the importance of um building your network and developing allies. Um I would say um as uh Malia uh responded and her response was uh to get a mentor and not just have one but have multiple mentors. Um And I learned that later in my career, I think I have two or three mentors uh currently. But I thought as a young person in the industry, I thought, you know, you get you one mentor and you stay with them until he or she dies or I die, I don't know, you just stay with them. No, you have to get a variety of um people. Um And it's, you have to be careful. I think, because if you get a mentor within your department, you have to be concerned about their intentions of what they would like to shape you to be for that department. Whereas if you get someone outside of the department or with another organization, you, you get more um pure intentions behind mentoring uh someone. So um I think it's important to, again develop allies uh and get you two or three mentors, someone in, within the industry and external to the industry as well. And um um do your job to the best of your ability. And if you can beyond the best of your ability, because work ethic speaks volumes, kind of like to piggyback on something. Ria just said that came to mind, it's important to probably interview more than one possible mentor or sponsor too because you can, one is, you know, making sure that you connect and vibe with that person. And even if they're in that, if they're in a role that you aspire to be, it's still very important to make sure that you can connect with each other or that that person has time. So you may not find, you may have someone in mind and then come to find out what's talking to them. Maybe they don't really have your best interest or you don't get along well. So sometimes it may take, you know, a few times to try to find that could fit in a mentor or sponsor too. Or does. No, everybody doesn't have to be like to me mentor and sponsorship is a high title. Like, can you just be part of my networking circle? And then, you know, maybe I elevate you to mentor and sponsorship. Like, and I'm not saying this to be Bougie or is that, do you anyhow, it, it is, it is being selective, you know, like I, you, you, you're there, I'm reading this book. Oh my God, it's so good. Um It's called the Memo and it's by Linda Hart and she has a chapter but her chapter is called um building your squad, you know, like having the people. And it's the same thing that you all said it is the people that are in your job, but also outside of your job, you know that and that helps and that, and I'm with you rea I wish I had known this stuff when I was younger and by younger, I mean, 20 because I'm 21 now. If I can add, I, I absolutely love this conversation because I don't think we talk enough about the differentiation of roles. But at the heart of it, it comes down to your connectivity with individuals and your interpersonal engagement because it has to be authentic. I will never forget one of my mentees who's like my little sister now and she teaches me um she has a higher position than me at this point because we've been together 12 years but we met in another professional association and I was a leader at the time of one of the networks and we were having a meet and greet and she uh walked up to me as we had an activity for the new professionals to do. And I said, well, where's your business card? And she was like, I forgot them. And I said, well, I'm gonna need you to go find something and make it because this is a networking event and you need to make sure you're prepared. So she didn't take that well, but she came back the next day, she found me and she said, you know what? I want you to be my mentor, you're gonna take me places and she never forgot that moment because there was a sense of accountability. That one. First of all, it was my year to be president. You, if I I was training up, you know, black leaders, man, you gotta be together like you never know who you're gonna meet. You know, we're far and few between here like we always gotta stay ready. There's no time with like even if you gotta make up cars and you went down to the business center of your hotel and you printed those. I don't care if you handmade them because this was literally, this is pre the apps and phones and you know, sharing you, you gotta be ready, you're meeting people, you want them to remember your name. And I appreciate her for that literally to the point that she was there when my son was born and she's been a part of my family and it's, it's still mentor mentee. We still agree that that is that role, but she's gone on so much further than I have. Um But there's still this opportunity that we can grow together. However, it's about holding people accountable. Every I uh there are some people you will get a negative vibe. She could have got a negative vibe and walked away. But she realized that was gonna be her challenge. And she realized, OK, this person actually does have my best interest at heart because I didn't say it in a tone that was disrespectful. It was like this is your first annual conference, you gotta be ready. You don't know who you're gonna meet. And there was a level of love and concern that came out to prepare her. Another one of my mentors uh that I had. So that was uh uh me becoming a mentor for someone that I did not expect to be a mentor for. Um There was a older professional at my job who was very influential and one of my colleagues, she knew that there, there was some issues around how Jica was being perceived as, you know, uh a millennial professional. And, and this was difficult for my institution because who is this young person acting like she's a director and you're not. Um And this colleague of mine said, I really think you need to get to know this person. And she said it sternly. But it was like, you know, some people when they talk to you, you have a relationship, you're like, I need to go do what they said, this is this, this person has my back. So I scheduled a meeting and I was like, I would just love to have a conversation with you. We ended up meeting like every other month, great relationship. Got to know her family hugely supportive of me. She ended up being what I didn't even know what sponsor was at the time because she was the right hand to the senior leader of the institution. So when people started to craft this narrative about Jica, this person knew the real Jica. She knew the Jica at work. She knew the work that I did. She heard about things, but she also got to knew know me as a person and she knew my heart was genuine. She knew when we spoke that I wasn't disrespectful when we spoke, she started to watch me differently and not take in what she heard people say. But she started to speak on my behalf. And that really made a difference. And I believe it was a part of why the president literally moved me up to positions. I did not apply for my realignment. So where I had issues before you have sponsors like Malia described who can move you into places and spaces that you can't even imagine. But it's about the relationship. It's about keeping in touch. We can't say we want to sponsor, we can't say we want a mentor and you don't even have to put that title there. It doesn't have to be that. But if you're gonna develop your, your network, Asia said, you gotta cultivate that. You gotta be the energy that you wanna receive. I'd like to pull kind of some of these threads of the conversations together a little bit because so you've all talked about how ascend helped you. Like Janica, you talked about how Ascend is helping you think about getting out of a rut and kind of getting stuck and having that toolbox to do that. We've of course, talked about mentorship and sponsorship as ways um to help you be connected to people a lot of this to me, like there's a theme around this, of figuring out how to navigate a system, navigate hierarchies, navigate relationships, kind of pull it together for yourself. But you mentioned the values assessment. So I imagine you also learned about ways to do that that are authentic to you and who you are. So OK, if we, if that's all right, and we're kind of keeping those things in mind. How do you or how did ascend help you think about you get to those positions, you've navigated the system, you've used the tools you've done the stuff and you see things that need to change something we've talked about on the podcast before. So you figured out how to, for a lack of a better word, um, kind of play the game. Those are words I've used before, but you're like, the game isn't necessarily the best one for everyone. So, how are you, how are you pulling those things together being your authentic self going through the paces when you said Jica at that um in that experience where you were like, you don't know who you're going to meet. I think about the people who, it doesn't matter how they're showing up, they're going to get what they're going to get because the system is just sort of like oriented in their favor. So, on the one hand, you're helping people understand how they need to show up and like you said, be accountable, but on the other hand, it's also like, but that's kind of like, not equitable and fair. How are you figuring out how to bring all of these things together and balance it so that people are both navigating systems and getting out of ruts and also challenging those systems? At the same time, this is R. Janica. I can appreciate everything you've said thus far. Um How do you navigate those uh professional ruts? Um How do you incite or inspire change? I, I think it's important to do things and engage with people well, first engage with people that you normally wouldn't engage with and then do things that make you uncomfortable. And so my husband has a saying, uh that he said to when he coached, he said he would tell his players get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And so I, I'm the type of individual who uh will like to break tension or ice in a particular meeting when we're trying to um move in a different direction by just kind of posing the question of, well, can we look at it from this perspective and how would it benefit the student first and foremost, and then how can we build uh processes and systems to support student success? And I'll usually respond with something like, don't everybody speak at one time and that can break the ice. Um But I like to bring to the forefront the whole reason and purpose, why we're in this industry and that's to help students to be successful and navigate through their or matriculate through their um education. Uh So I those uncomfortable conversations, those uh tension filled conversations, I kind of lean into those scenarios when I hear that someone may feel that I come off, uh let's say a bit much. I worked to find ways to work with that individual to lean into them. Um because I want them to see me for who I am because I think it's very important earlier before I started in higher education, I didn't show up as an as my authentic self. Um What I have appreciated about my experience, professional experience in higher education is I have been given a space especially at a pre predominantly white institution to show up authentically as myself. And so I'm not gonna stop that because it has led me to where I am now. So, um I, I just think it's very important to lean into situations and scenarios and um go against the status quo and go against. Well, this is the way we always done it. Let's look at ways we can improve upon it. Not to say that the way we always done it didn't work. Obviously, we're here. But how can we improve upon it? Because as we saw in 2020 things can go, oh, so crazy. And we have to be prepared especially in higher education to be uh there again for our students and prospective students as well. So, and r I think that goes along also with um with people of color at institutions. We got to get to the table first in order to get to the table, we have to play that game and in order to play that game, sometimes we have to be uncomfortable. Now, I'm not saying put yourself in an uncomfortable situation where, you know, it's all kind of slurs are thrown around. That's not what I mean by uncomfortable. What I mean by uncomfortable is um going to uh and I read this in the book too. I'm telling you this book is so good. The memo uh going to the after party. We may not wanna go everybody else there though and they, they seen all their personality and if that one time we go can get us closer to the table. It's uncomfortable but it can get us there. And then when we finally there, now we can talk about some changes again. That's why I and uh I have been dubbed the mayor because I would be everywhere and anywhere not that I want and people be like, why are you going to that? You know, I would crash our, I say crash, I would crash our uh service awards banquet every single year. We stopped having it. Um, once COVID came, uh arrived, um but I would go, I would find somebody to be there plus one and I would go and it was a simple act of celebrating my coworkers in their, receiving their awards for the 5, 1015, 2025 30 35 40 40 some folks 45 years. Um It's just something simple. Um Just to be, and then afterwards I would send them an email, congratulating them on, you know, how many years of service they've been with the institution. It's just with something as simple as that. And I've made connections just, you know, in, in that manner. So again, it's just getting comfortable with being un comfortable until it seems like it's effortless and um people will notice, uh like you said, it's, you know, it, you have to play the game to get to the table. Um you know, hey, you get more when they say more bees with honey than you do vinegar. So, um you know, give them the reason to say, hey, what brings you here? And you go in from there. My, in my former role, I was the program director for dual enrollment pre-college programs and a host of other things. My manager because I do, I, I asked the question during our webinar um and Porsha remembers, but it was about personalities that tend to not be accept it and it's not a bad personality. It took a long time to realize nothing is bad. Like everyone has their purpose, all personalities are different, all colors out of the rainbow are wonderful. But I, and, and it's interesting because my coconspirator was my manager for dual enrollment. She could send, she could send an email that I typed and get a response and we knew this and there was, there was eye contact that was there. She actually gave me the most wonderful gift. Um When I left, it was you will be too much for some people and those people will not be your people because she knew. So we, we think that individuals don't know that the game is being played or that there is a game and there is, I don't care where you are, higher education is not exempt and it's not by itself. So if we know it doesn't sit in a silo, we honor the fact that there is institutional discrimination against individuals. And even if it's an all, all, you know, white institution or all black institution, like there's still these levels of discrimination that we bring in that, you know, that's kind of not the direction or the agenda that we're focused on right now and you miss that because we have to get off of agendas. Um But we're not because it's all about the the human connection, right? And it's all about going to these activities and events and she was my coconspirator. She was also one of my greatest friends. We did a lot of traveling, we took the students all over the place and we got the opportunity to develop that friendship a little bit more. But having her there was good. She was also a sponsor for me because she would say, well, I think my director would be the better person here. You would think she would need to do that. But I did find ways to rejuvenate her to just say like I appreciate you. And the same she did for me to be like, I know what, you know, and I know they know what, you know, I'm so sorry that they do this, you know, and it's, it's insane but it exists, but it shows why we need these friendships and it shows back to the circle, right? For the memo, they don't have to be a mentor. They don't have to be a sponsor. We don't have to name them, but they are co-conspirators. They are allies. But can we just call them what they are? And that's friends, they're your coworkers. And can we hold them to a level of accountability? Can we have honest conversations to be like, you know, your emails are very much more received than mine. I wrote it up. You know, it's good. It's grammatically correct. It's nice. The tone is great but somehow they're going to receive it because they've made XY and Z narrative perspective about me. Can you send this on behalf of the organization? Now, there were some things I could on it. It would only be me because I had connections that Jonica has to send it like she knows the people over here because Jica was always making connections. But for some you knew if it went to leadership, I gotta write bullets. If it went to another leadership, you gotta write a sentence and that sentence must have data in it. If it went to someone else, maybe a visual might be best. So we have to for any space identify who our audience is and how best to have those conversations. And that's the uncomfortable part where additional learning may be needed. This is great. I, I, I'm, I'm actually wanting to look into this Ascend program. I, I think I looked at it hovered over it but never really tried. Um, because I, I think I was where you ladies felt, especially. I know you talked about the jica of just feeling like stagnant. Like what do I, what, what I keep going? I keep trying to not hop from job to job, but I, I keep volunteering for stuff. I keep saying, oh, yes, I can do it. Oh Look at me, look at me and no one really truly was looking at me and yes, I came in with feeling like I had to please be a pleaser. I'm, I'm that naturally but I wasn't being me while doing it. I was, I was playing a role. I was playing a role. Well, I, I'll tell you um as I uh so I earned um my undergraduate degree from Bethune Cookman University here in Daytona. And then while uh working for in Burrito, I earned um two masters and people were like, well, why, well, why, why are you, why the second one? OK, I get you on your first one. Why the second one? And whenever you have a passion to do something, but don't necessarily understand what is attracting you to um whatever you want to become exposed to. Um There's a reason why because down the road um and as we know, sometimes in certain situations, we as persons of color have to have a little bit more than what anyone else may need to move forward. And so when the doors began to open up for me to move into management, um, it was made effortless because I had made that investment in myself. So I think we all go through, you know, especially those of us who are over the age of 21 and I'll, I'll be 50 in just a couple of weeks here. But um you get that-- good. You look-- good. Thank you. It is the youth serum that I take every morning. Uh Thank you though. Um But it, it's, I think it's a part of your journey. Um I know clearly what I enjoy doing and what I don't enjoy doing. Um whereas I struggled with being a younger manager, I struggled with delegating and directing to individuals that were older than me. Um I had to become comfortable with that notion and so now, um I'm very comfortable in, in what I do whether it's uh your Janica millennials dealing with the millennials because I'm a Gen Xer uh very old school. I'm on the cusp of being a boomer and a Ag Xer. But um I feel I have the ability and this is what I love about working in higher education. I can relate to those Gen Z Ers that are my class. I mean, because they are some interesting folks. Um they are, they are, they, they are. Um but it's all about communication. It's all in how I uh deliver the information. I know never to hand them a piece of paper. But to absolutely put their work online. I cannot hand them a piece of paper because they look at me like, oh, what do you want me to do with this? And I was like, oh, there's this instrument called the p and you put it on there, right? But you know, so it, it, it and Janica, you hit it the nail on the head. I believe it was Janica. That was saying it's all in how you uh communicate to an individual. Some individuals, you have to go to their office and have an in person meeting. Some, you just have to pick up the telephone, some, you have to send a well crafted email, some just want an instant message on the um university's communication system. Um But you have to know your audience to be able to maneuver um and number one be your authentic self and no matter the manner in which you communicate, but most importantly, get your message across again. You have to pour a lot of honey on certain situations and certain other situations, I can just throw it out there and move on and not even look back. So very important if I can add when you were explaining that Ria, this is Janica, I was thinking about diversity, right? And this idea of belonging, this idea of centering oneself. There is a lot of education that we're talking about and education across sectors, beings, people. And it is hard for people of color to be in this space and to move. But we have to identify ways to be consistent about letting people understand and know how we want to be treated. And just as you are saying, you're understanding your target audience, we have to teach them how to understand us and break down those misconceptions that they have about women in leadership or black women in leadership or those people in enrollment management, it has to be conversational. We have to develop these relationships. But while you're doing that and how you do, it can be stra strategic, but it can be structured, it can be engaging. The co-conspirators are needed to make sure that they don't miss the message just because they don't like the messenger, but you have to be consistent about that message and how you deliver it so that you teach them how to further engage with you. And it's going to require the communicator to be open to feedback. So we have to go to our co-conspirators and ask for that feedback and being OK to, to learn when you said feedback again, putting ego aside, we forget that the learning is necessary. The learning is a part of growing. You don't come out of the womb ready to. Well, maybe you do somebody, I'm sure somebody, you know, child did but the majority of us don't, there is a progression. You don't have a cake without getting the ingredients and going to the grocery store and shopping and figuring out what kind of cake we're gonna bake. It does not happen. Um Super, super quick, it takes time and we have to, that's a part of the education. Um I want to ask one more question, Emilia, you had mentioned um that you were in a grad program to, in addition to being in the assigned program. Do I have that? Right? Am I did, am I remembering that correctly? Um Clothes, I finished a graduate program. That was my second masters maybe six months or a year before I started the assin program. Right beforehand. They weren't together because I was gonna. So that's interesting. So you have two master's degrees. Maybe I have a different question. Rea you have two master's degrees. I'm about to finish my second master's degree degree. What, what are we, first of all, what is broken inside? I mean, I know, ask the same question like what is going on. I know you gave a very good answer.-- One-- word overachievers. Is that what it is? And I don't know what that is, but it is also in a graduate. So maybe the question I have, what I was going to ask is changing, which is about I'm thinking about how much additional work and labor and effort is being put into our careers your career. So like all of the graduate degrees and then additional graduate degrees and then participating in this program, and you talked about the, the final project being the enrollment management plan, which I'm assuming is like a quality product that is probably beneficial to your institution. Like it just, I I'm interested, I guess in the reflections on how much work you're doing and how you do balance that. Tashana can kind of ask that question about like related to work life, balance. What is the sort of counter to all of this investment in your profession and how it is like also investing in yourself and your health and your well being and balancing all of that as someone who is um navigating all of this, it's definitely a, a balancing act. Um but it, it does start with knowing your, your authentic self and how much you can handle and how much you can't and how much you may need um support and maybe rely on others to kind of um juggle and, and balance everything because you have overachievers like us that want the I'll say lifelong learners because that's what I consider myself and you know, wanting to know more and develop professionally and, but you also want to make sure that you don't burn yourself out at the same time. So you wanna kind of, there is a balancing act in navigating what you need to know that's really going to help you professionally and be of benefit to you and what you just wanna know out of, of curiosity, um so to speak. So there's definitely a, a balancing act in that and there's finding time to, you have to be able to find time to pull away from all of it to, to center yourself. So you have work, you have graduate school, you have a sin, but you have to be able to pull back and, and find a way to just regroup within yourself. Whether that be meditation, uh hanging out with friends, that's, you know, that they can be work friends, that can be friends outside of work, family, um Things like that. But for me, it's also remembering that there's an opportunity for legacy there. Um My mentor kind of mentioned to me um because she's, I think kind of she's retired from Higher Ed for the most part. But, and as Jica kind of mentioned earlier with the great resignation, there's a series of those in Higher Ed that are retiring and moving on, you know, into that phase. So what needs to happen is there needs to be that, that bridge and that's something that ascend helps to do is make that bridge and that connection to the next generation and the next um flow of, of higher ed um professionals to still make that connection to bring, keep moving higher ed forward. So that's something that kind of sticks to my mind. It helps me to kind of stick with it because there's opportunity here to change in landscape. We kind of talk about higher ed, kind of being behind um especially technology wise and everything um within society. But it's up to us whether that's Gen Xers or us millennials cause you know, us millennials, we like to do things our own way and change the game uh most of the time, but we're here to help shape and help continue to hire, help higher ed grow uh in our fields, especially in our fields, being in the background. A lot of times um in admissions and registrars offices. But we're here. It helps me to remember that we're here to help higher ed move forward because not only are we helping the field of higher ed move forward, but we're still continuing to help the generations that are going to come after us and continuing to provide academic opportunities for them to learn and experience and grow whether that's in higher ed or their own, you know, professional fields. So that's something that kind of helped me Reiner when I said, what am I doing in higher ed? Why do I have all these degrees? What, what am I doing here? Um But it's about helping, helping yourself grow professionally, but also helping those who are going to come behind us, especially as um as people of color, we have the opportunity here to, to help shape that behind, behind the scenes because we may not necessarily be in the roles that are in the forefront. Um cause you know, sometimes you want to go to a school because of the athletics or things like that. So we may not have those kind of roles that help, help shape. But we're here in the background, helping to see how we can change systems and processes to open the doors to others as well. For me, uh pursuit of additional degrees was uh purely uh from per pers, I'm sorry, personal perspective. Um My father is Jamaican and if you know anything about Jamaicans, they all about education. And that's all I heard as a young girl growing up uh go to school, he would tell me about his friend whose daughter went to this school and they're going to law school and they're doing so, education was pushed to me from a very young age when I arrived at, for my undergrad. I was not excited about education at all. Um Just made my way through happy that I graduated. Thank you lady. As they say, however, I, 10 years after completing my undergrad, I, I was here at em riddle. And I said, hmm, I'm not into aviation. Why would I take a degree program here? But they do have a master's in management, master's um of business administration. Um And I do have a passion for management and leading people and I said, well, this will be a great opportunity for me to see what the product is about. If I'm going to work for this institution, let's see what the product is about. I need to be, I'm the type of individual that I need to know what's in the water that we're selling because I can't effectively sell the water if I don't know what's in it, if that makes sense. Uh So, um I decided to sign up for some courses, never thinking I would ever really finish the, my first masters, but I took my time and finished it and uh uh uh again, really was ignited by what I learned and, and wanted to go for more. So I had the opportunity to pursue my master's degree. Um, also wanted to be an inspiration for my Children. Um I have a 26 year old and a 21 year old and so I'm very much uh from the generation of, um demonstrating in order for them to follow behind. So, very much what Malia was saying and just being a leader, um, and being prepared to pass the baton. So when my son graduated from em Rle, I, these are the words I said to him on his graduation day. Um Congratulations on your undergrad. You still have two more degrees to go to beat me. So, until you do that, uh, you know, nice job, you know, high five at a boy. Um, let's work for more. So, uh it, it's just very important. But in, in the classroom, I see where students have a greater respect for the fact of. Oh, ok. She's one of us. She's been here, she sat in the classroom, she really kind of get, you know, what I'm going through, what I'm aspiring to be, um what I'm aspiring to attain. Um When is the next ascend meeting? We need to sign up. At least I definitely need to, especially like your lady said, this is like the bridge for mid level professionals, you know, because it's like I've been in higher ed for over 20 something years. I have made my way up but now I'm just stuck here. Um What's next? You know, and I think a pro a program like a sin can help me probably move up to VP status or, you know, associate VP or something like that. So I really appreciate the information that you shared with us. Um Are there any final words that any ladies when anybody wanna share with our community? I would like to. So the application opens in August and I've been sharing this with other individuals and I think that's where we get an opportunity to be mentors and or guys or friends to people that were like, this would be great for you. My closing would be sometimes we have to move and I think we don't leave room for new things to happen for us and new can look very different. Um Ria mentioned, you know, being empty nesters not saying she may want to sell her house, but maybe um Air BNB or renting it out um could be an option to allow her to move. But sometimes we do have to take new risks if we wanna stay within the industry of higher education. So the best person that you can bet on is yourself and if you're going to remain the same, if you're not going to travel or get different experiences to learn how to interconnect with other people or see what other institutions are out there because we get sometimes complacent. But finding opportunities to really step out of your comfort zone can be helpful and sometimes trying another institution could be so life changing for you. It has been tremendously, life changing for me to see something outside of the state of Maryland for the first time in over 20 years. And I want to say I'm making a huge, huge impact. Um In my, for my closing statement, I just simply want to say, uh a sin is very vital, is very much needed. Um I highly recommend uh the program for uh mid, mid level managers um to grow. Um Please go with an open mind and open heart and be receptive to all that is shared and invested and poured into you. Um open uh open up, you know your voice. If you feel you're not getting the support that you need, where whether it's from an institutional perspective or from uh the program, be sure to be vocal um and just engage. Um II I can't recommend it enough for individuals. Thanks uh Ria, this is Malia um in my closing. Um Of course, thank you all for having me on here was a great opportunity um especially, and we mentioned connections, this connection that we made in the end, Ria and Janica and myself is what brought us here to this podcast. Um So we speak of connections and how valuable they are. And this just kind of shows that um for me, um a sin was great. I would definitely recommend it um to anyone who's interested, the it's the resources that were available in the sin and that's not just um you know, documentation or things like that. It's also the connections that you make with those um in your field and within Afro um were very, and the knowledge that was gained were um very valuable uh for me in a sin. So anyone that is interested in the sin, I would definitely say it's worth um worth looking into. If you can't, even if you can't look into a sin, then there are other opportunities within acro um to, to connect with other um professionals in the field as well. Thank you. I appreciate that. Will you ladies be in Colorado? All right. R yes to Ria only Ria. I tried, I tried it. It didn't work Thanks for listening to HD, a podcast sponsored by Acro. We'd love to hear from you. Share your episode, ideas or feedback for us at HD at acro.org episodes are produced by May Oa Inna. Thanks May OA we'll see you next time.