Reggie Time: DEI with Dr. Reginald Garcon

In this episode, Tashana, Ingrid, and Portia spoke with Dr. Reginald Garcon, Associate Vice President for Enrollment management and Student Experience, and University Registrar at the University of Maryland, Eastern Shore.  Dr. Garcon talked about DEI efforts he has been engaged with throughout his career, including at his current institution, a land-grant HBCU. Dr. Garcon talked about the the power of policy review and refinement can create a more equitable environment for students, how data can help make the case for change, and how he practices self-care. 

Transcript

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At the end of the awards thing that we had this week, you know, I had the DJ there. I was like, OK, we're gonna turn it off. I said, put this on and then started line dancing students and staff. I like, let's do it. Let's so, so-- I need you to-- do that at AC R to do that. Tashana. We literally were going to do that after the experience acro but we couldn't find the room that they gave us. So Black caucus was getting ready to come together and be like to the left it back. Now y'all, we was, your mom was ready. We were ready. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of her. On today's episode, we talked with Doctor Reginald Garson, associate vice president for enrollment management and student experience and university registrar at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore. The University of Maryland Eastern Shore is a public land grant, historically Black College and University or H BC U. And we spoke with Doctor Garson about DE I efforts he has been engaged with throughout his career. We talked about the power of policies to create a more equitable environment for students and how data can help make the case for change. We also asked Doctor Garzon to share how he practices self-care. Hence the title of this episode, Reggie Time. If you haven't had the pleasure of connecting with Doctor Garson, you're in for a treat. All right, let's get started. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of her. I'm Ingrid Nuttle. I'm Porsha Lamar-- and I'm Tashana-- Curtis. And today on the pod, we have a fabulous guest. Doctor Reginald Garzon. Doctor Garzon is Associate vice president for enrollment management and student experience at University of Maryland of Eastern Shore and president of Capac. Welcome to the pod, Doctor Garcia. Thank you. It is my pleasure to be here where uh is University of Maryland Eastern Shore. Can you orient us to where it is in the fabulous state of Maryland? Sure. It's on the eastern shore. So specifically, it's in a small town called Princess Anne. And for those of you, in terms of geography, if you can pinpoint where Baltimore is, we're about two hours east of Baltimore, you have to go across the B the Bay Bridge to get to the eastern shore. So we're two hours from Baltimore still two hours and change from DC in terms of locations, but that is where we are located. Doctor Gras not, can you share a little bit about yourself um for our listeners and your own experiences navigating higher education. We like to start these conversations with kind of hearing from guests in their own voice. No problem. I have been in higher education for over 25 years in a lot of different respects. My journey first began as a graduate student working in the Dean's office, helping out with orientation for new students. And that was at Florida Atlantic University. And then the opportunity presented itself when the school officially created a coordinator of orientation position. Then, of course, at that time, I was eligible, I had my bachelor's and that's what I've started my trajectory working in higher ed. And I've worked at small schools, large twos public schools, private schools, even a seven day event of school. And right now I am here at the University of Maryland, Eastern Shore as the associate VP for enrollment management student experience and the university registrar. The other thing that I could just say just about my, my, my journey in higher ed, it started with student activities and Greek life and all those support services to assist students to basically be successful. And then it wasn't until when I worked at Mountain State University in Beckley, West Virginia. I was there for about six years that at the final two years or so in that position, I was the Dean of students, I became Dean of students and registrar through a chain of events. And that started my trajectory working with the office of the registrar. And then it has just sort of continued and even though, I tried to get away from it, it still comes back, but that's ok because sometimes when you have a knack for something, it's gonna stick with you. And what I could say now as it relates to my current position, why I find it very dear and why I ultimately made the decision to switch jobs was because of seeing all of the challenges students were facing. That was sort of what I would call more self imposed through our policies and procedures and things that were inherent within the university setting, as well as seeing all of the hiccups and roadblocks. And it was very frustrating because I could always share and identify these are the different issues, but I wasn't in a place to really make the change happen, I could share it, but folks didn't have to listen to me. Um And so as I began to decide my, what my next place of employment would be, I wanted to be in a position where I can make change. And so I've been at Umes for almost a year and a half time flies and that is exactly what I'm doing right now, making change, looking at policies that have negatively impacted students or their policies that haven't been updated uh in a long time. So thus far I've, within a year's time, there's been seven policies that um I've worked collaboratively across the board with academics to make those changes and there's still more to come. So right now, in terms of my general passion is really finding where those gaps are fixing those things, especially as it relates to policies. And then ultimately, what else can we do to support students so that they can graduate? And that's sort of the overall gist of my job, not only from a policy standpoint, from as we get different types of funding being on committees to help support that, assisting with campus life, student activity, student enrollment, all of those within the umbrella of my job. So that's a bit of sort of my higher in experience and what I'm doing now and why it's dear to be. Wow. I it's funny that when you were um saying your all the uh types of schools you've been at, I wanted to enter in my early Shirley seizure and like you name it anyhow. Um but my question to you is you made a statement about you want to be in a position where you can make change how or what, what is it in which the person that is dealing with the students and sees the issues and expresses it to leadership and it doesn't like kind of come across as this is a change that's needed. What um what can, what, what is that, that gap and then how are you avoiding it being in a position now where you can make the changes? I think that's a very fair question and I'll give you an example of one of the things that was so frustrating to me, I worked at a school and I got a call from a parent because they were basically question, why isn't Johnny? Uh not graduating. He's been here about five years, what's going on. So I go ahead investigate basically the student is and that's those two course is short. One is an internship which the grade was like pending. The other one is a grade that uh right now is showing as a failed grade. So of course, he would have to retake that. But then in looking more into the situation, this is a student that's taken this course seven times. So within that there are a couple of ws couple of fs um there's ad in there but then there was also ac so my, my question was hold up at some point. He made the c then why? And that would have been passing for what the student was needed for their major, but then wind up retaking it it again and then failing it or withdrawing. And so this was a situation where all of that could have been avoided. So it's a matter of where was the student? Where was the advisor? Where was that, that cross check? And so I winded up advocating in this particular situation for us to accept that earlier grade win. That student did earn that c so that he would be that much closer to graduating. So in doing that, it is a convers, it starts with identifying what the issue is, but then having that conversation with individuals, academics regarding the issue and hopefully you have that kind of support where those changes could be made. So in this case, I reported to a provost and she understood the situation. So it was easy for me to help advocate for that change to make. But typically it doesn't happen that quickly. And as I've been experienced working with these policies, things that haven't been updated for a minute, it's all about data, data to show that things are not effective or the issues that it's presenting and having that narrative so that you can have a conversation with folks so that they could understand the dynamics of what the issue is. Half the time, they just don't understand it. And it's a policy, that's what we've been doing. Why should there be a change? But the whole point we should constantly be reviewing policies, see if it's working for what the intent is. So it's, it, it, it's a cross, it, it affects so many different levels, but it does get challenging. But I I pride myself on trying to have a great relationship with folks from the academic side and being in those positions where we can have those conversations and it's all about the data to get the ball rolling. Glad that you said that. So with policies um and uh excuse me specifically though, you said you um the seven policies within the last year, how are you incorporating diversity and inclusion into these policies? Especially because you're at A H BC U. So what does that look like? I am so happy you said. So let me talk about. So one of the pride po not that there's a policy that I'm more happy that was done, but it was regarding our dismissal policy and we had a policy that was based on credit. So after someone was dismissed, when they came back, there was this particular formula that students have to sort of follow, you know, if they have earned X amount of credits, they should have X amount of GPA by this threshold. And so if that didn't happen, then they would get dismissed again. So it was working, but this is what was really happening. And when you talk about diversity, this is affecting everybody. And of course, being at A H BC U uh where the majority it are people of color. So it's looking at how, how is the policy negatively impacting students, especially when they're doing well. So here's the scenario, student gets dismissed, they come back for that next semester, they can get a 4.0 GPA. But because of this policy that focused on these credits by this threshold, they would get dismissed again because they had met that threshold. So you're telling me that someone who came back and is now succeeding in excelling is being penalized. So that is something that got changed so that it is now focusing on as we look at the term GPA. Because of course, when, when a student is below a 2.0 overall, it's gonna take a while for that GPA to get above a two. But as long as they're progressing and get at least a 2.0 for that term GPA, they can continue. So that is a policy that got changed and it's for the betterment of students. So when you talk about diversity and policy, it's really also looking at who is being impacted by the policy and, and that's where the data comes in and, and, and that is so key to really look at how disproportionate it is the, the students of color are being negatively impacted by this. Well, students as a whole, but when you're looking at the majority in terms of the numbers that is how it's hitting. And so that conversation had to be had so that we could move forward and make that change. That is um I, as you were talking, one of the things I was thinking of of is that you can never get ahead like that, the penalties for mistakes or not even mistakes, but just like different experiences that affect your ability to navigate an institution or a course or a system or whatever it is, you can never get ahead of that. And um that when you're talking about equity and policies, it's about recognizing that that's not ok and trying to do something about it. Um Do you think that that is a revolutionary idea in higher education? Like I, I guess I'm just interested in your perspective of that from a student experience and, and how institutions overall should be thinking about and looking about that um rules, policies, regulations, but also like treating people like people um with lives. What I would say first is the school that I came from prior to Umes. Uh their dismissal policy was sort of similar to where we are right now. So I don't necessarily think it was a revolutionary idea, but I think it goes back to what is the cycle when you have policies that they're going to be reviewed and not just review for the sake of reviewing for editing purposes, but what is the true intent? What is the data say? So if this is a policy in regards to dismissal? So is when we make the change, is it improving lessening the amount of dismissals? Um How are, how is it truly impacting when I think of some other policies? Uh And this is where the data comes in. Um One of the other things we had a similar to a lot of schools, they have a policy for transfer credits, you know, uh if you're coming from a community college, you would set up to 70. If it's a university up to 90 we had the practice of 90 but it was never in a policy. So when things aren't in a policy, it allows for a whole bunch of things and variations. So it, it goes back to trying to be consistent looking at what needs to be done overall. And it's, if you're not, and I think I'm just repeating myself, but if you're not constantly checking things and seeing if the intent is being made, then that there's going to be a problem. And I, and I think the only re revolutionary thing would be is how people look at policies. Are they looking to see? Are there any equity gaps within it? How are certain students benefiting or hurting from those? What is the data saying? And let that feed the reason for the policy change? Not just because it's time to change it. So as Tashana uh mentioned, as we talked about, you work at an H BC U and uh that was part of our interest in talking to you today because we wanted to talk about diversity within that institutional context. So can you talk to us about how you, how you define diversity? Um you know, working in an H BC U and within your definition, how to H BC us promote diversity? Sure, I'll, I, I'll just start off with my personal definition of diversity because I think it's loaded between diverse when we talk of de I diversity, inclusion and equity. I think those are the three pillars. And it's a matter of what the approach is. When I think of diversity, it's anything that makes someone unique, whatever that characteristic is, and it's going to be a variety of different things. So diversity as a whole is simply that different things, different people and that, that is fine. But the next piece when we talk about inclusion is then seeing regardless of the diversity because it could be whether it's gender, whether it's background, whether it's disability and the list can go on age. Uh Are there things preventing those specialized groups or characteristics from being in the fold? That's where that inclusion piece comes in. So a we recognize there's a variety of different people. B is there a space for folks to be included in whatever? And then the last piece is that equity are things fair and just for those individual is, is the playing field level. So when I say that then working at A H BC U, definitely one of the, the biggest things in the creation of H BC US was providing a place where people of color can come and get educated. So, so so you start with that and then at my particular institution, we're a land grant institution. So we were founded uh we're 1890 land grant institution. So institutions that are founded in that area, they typically are focusing on agriculture and engineering and those are some of the founding principles of our schools. And so I think that's important in terms of the, the background of the school. But then in terms of what, what am I doing? What are we doing is it would be one thing if I would say right now, Umes is all people of color. And the answer is no, we are a diverse school because we have a, a variety of students from a variety of different backgrounds that are attending the school. So you have the diversity, you have the inclusion, but the equity this goes back to looking at the policies and making spaces for it. Another thing that in terms of things that I can do or things that I've done to, to look at how we bring that inclusion. One of the things we did this past week, um I helped coordinate an event and it, and it was an acknowledgment event for not only our student leaders, but it also started with recognizing our first generation students, students who received the honor roll. So a lot of schools have honor rolls which is 3.25 to 3.49. But we didn't have that as part of our policy. We had dean's list and higher. So we had a group of students who were still excelling and if you look at other sister schools, they had that criteria for the honor roll, but we didn't. So that was one of the things that we implemented. But in addition to implementing, we wanted to provide that space where those students could be recognized. So we had this event, people came out, we had over 200 people there. I I the bar was very low for it being the first time. But one of the things that was evident when you looked across the room is having that space regardless of color, students wanna be recognized for their achievements. So we as an institution, we wanna find those opportunities, student leaders. The first gen on a roll, there were even students who received like special uh scholarships where even though they received the scholarship, there wasn't no other recognition that happened. So it's like, how do we find those places where we could recognize the students for their recognition? And I think that goes a long way and I, and this is just one of those things that we're looking to continue to grow and enhance. But that's one of the things that we're doing. Uh WW when we talk about diversity. Another thing that I could share is at the beginning of the school year. As part of the president's um state of the Union, we had a fireside chat where it was a mix of faculty staff and we were presenting in front of other staff, but we hit on specific things as it relates to diversity and inclusion uh in, in terms and, and it was a place to help educate faculty things they need, they needed to know as well as some new legislation. For example, uh how do you accommodate students in the classroom for any type of disabilities? What are the resources, there's new legislation in regards to religious accommodation in the classroom? What does that look like? What, what is fair? So because there's different aspects of diversity of what that may look like, you have to have that space where that conversation can happen. So we can help educate people as to what they need to do. So this fireside chat was led by uh the vice president, my boss, but I was also one of the panelists along with some other uh faculty and staff to sort of share and help them navigate through these nuances because that's the only way we could get better. So I'll, I'll, I'll pause at that moment, but that's a little bit of some of the things we're doing. That's amazing. That's amazing. That is, I think that you explain that very well because sometimes people have the idea or the notion that because you're an H BC U, you don't have to do anything in dealing with DE I because the surface level idea of de I is to help out people of color and look you guys are getting an education done and done. But there is still things that go on um within higher ed, like you said, the policies and stuff that have to be addressed. So I that was a great explanation. Thank you. So, uh I think you've covered a lot about the work that you've done to demonstrate that commitment. But as you were talking about like reviewing the policies, things change, they need to be reviewed, not just for grammar because things change change. I think we're also interested in understanding a little bit more about your learning and how you keep yourself engaged in like continued learning and knowledge about de I how, how do you do that? How do you, how do you approach a development plan for yourself? That is a very good question. So one of the things that I am part of, we have what we call here at our campus. We, it's, it's our, it's like it's a Jedi community committee uh which is uh including um justice equity diversity and inclusion. That's what we call it here. So being on a panel like that or a committee like that, it helps engage in terms of those conversations. So that's, that's one thing, other things that I think it's just as important in working with our student leaders, uh our student government association each month, there's a town hall at the town hall. We make a point that uh the president of the university is there as well as members of her cabinet. So that as things come up, the students bring up, it's, it's important that they can also he, well the leaders who are in place, they can hear what those issues are right then and there and then if there's a specific update, they can also share that at that time and then or take back that information to, to do a follow up. So you have to actively be engaged in those conversation and present spaces where you could hear this information. Another thing we just recently did um a couple of weeks ago, which is just as important. A survey just went out to the campus working with uh one of our partners regarding a sense of belonging uh survey. So we're waiting to get those results back to see how that could further inform us in terms of, do our students feel a sense of belonging? What are the areas they do feel a sense of belonging? What are, you know, what are those things so that we could begin working on those? So it has to continuously uh be uh an evolution. We, we, we can't just stop doing that and we can't only focus as diversity just being a black and white thing because it impacts so many different things and behaviors and routines and accommodations and resources. So those are the the the breadth of the things that we have to consider. So now, and you just touched on, you said you have a sense of belonging survey for students. What type of services or surveys are for staff with a sense of belonging. That is a great question and I don't have that answer at the moment. Um, I know that is some of the discussions that they're having at the cabinet level to sort of determine what that might look like as well as how can our human reach? Hr Human Resources Department get looped in because there's been other types of surveys that come out periodically for staff to assess things but not from a sense of belonging aspect. And I know that is something that they're looking at trying to see how can we sort of piggyback with what we're doing with the students. But it's just as important because just from my observations, we do have some uh structured events that we have in the fall and in the spring for faculty and staff to be engaged and we have a great time. However, I'm also of the thought of we need to find additional opportunities for engagement outside of the classroom and once a semester is not enough, what makes you feel included? What ma what gives you a sense of belonging? Mm. That's, that's a really great question. One of the things I would say and, and, and the, well, this would be my experience. I don't have any apprehension in sharing how I feel. And I, and I think that's a key point in having that sense of belonging in terms of feeling that it's safe enough to share a viewpoint and not worry about uh ramifications of it. Uh So I, I think having that type of climate is important. Um Another thing in terms of a sense of belonging for me is seeing the fruit of my work of how I'm able to impact students. And it might be little, little in terms of it might be a little thing that I'm doing, but it has long, long, long effects, for example, um we have the Persistence grant. It's a grant for juniors and seniors, they could get up to $500 to help them continue with their schooling. There's an application, things like that. But knowing that being part of that process and committee where uh it may seem like only $500 but it, that's$500 less that they have to pay towards their bills so that they can continue. That makes a difference when I sit on other scholarship uh committees and I'm reading the stories of yy, you know, WW whatever their scenario is and we're able to award or if, even if it's the e emergency Fund, you know, those particular things help me find that sense of belonging because I feel what I'm doing is meaningful. It's, it's helpful and it's, and it's not even that I'm looking to get a thank you back. But knowing that I've been able to help someone I think is it, it's, it's, it's really important. Um The, the last thing I would say in terms of that sense of belonging. It's really, um coming with how I work with my coworkers and supervisors. Um III, I pride myself on relationships and because I have good relationships that helps that sense of belonging so that we can band together and, and, and work towards stuff. There's, there's been times we've been short staffed and, you know, we huddle up the team and say, hey, we gotta do this and it's like all hands on deck and, and we do it and, and we find little ways to, to thank, thank the teams and things like that. But when folks are that willing to, to jump in, I think that's where that sense of belonging, sense of purpose. That's another word that I, I think is sort of the undertone of that um sense of belonging. But those are some of the things that I would say how I feel my sense of belonging. So you had a great um great session during the annual conference, uh AC Os annual conference uh talking about um H BC us along with some other great panelists um using that idea of sense of belonging. How can AC R give that sense of a belonging to H BC us to get them more involved, to get them to, to uh see the benefit with Acro and Acro also see the benefit in having more H BC US in a short sentence. I would say if you start small finding ways to partner so that it and, and you could be deliberate so that if a session is going to happen at XYZ, you could have whomever from ex school, but then reach out for someone specifically from an H BC U so that they could also share that perspective. I think that that's a real simple way and deliberate way of helping to bridge that gap. But also allowing that space for a different set of conversation or insight to, to be shared doing acro. So I, I think that would be one quick and simple way that it could be done. I uh you've got my head going because I was thinking about data. Like I'm a, I work in data and I was thinking your comment earlier about data and policy compliance about how that's a really interesting way to, to think about um representation and inclusion. And acro is as we continue to be more data informed in our work. And like so much focus on that, recognizing that um the institutions that are using data to inform their policies, they might all be doing it, but they might all be doing it in different ways and they could learn from each other. So you've got me thinking about my own sessions that I've got percolating in my head around data and how I should be partnering with you or others. Um Not just to talk about the things that I think that we're doing that are you know, really great and I want to share but like that, um my institution isn't a monolith and I need to, I need to bring other perspectives in so that it can be beneficial to more people. So I appreciate that. Shout out one of the things we were talking about as we were thinking about this session is um about like Tashana mentioned staff, Tashana worked in H BC U. She talked about that before. Um That just like there are not only um African American students at H BC US, there are also not only African American staff, there's not only black staff but diversity in hiring and representation. When you're thinking about the student body, like those things go together. So we, I guess we wanted to talk to you a little bit about hiring and staffing practices. Um And you like your experiences around that hiring methods to promote diversities. Given your experience both at eu current institution and previous institutions. Thank you. You have to find ways, find ways to be deliberate and it does help with working with your hr department to make sure you're still within the the parameters. Um But when you're working with the search committee, for example, I'll give you an example. Of course, the task of the search committee is to uh take a look at the resumes uh review rank and then you'll get forwarded to, you know, that next um stage within the process. But one of the things that you can do. Just even though the committee would have the resumes, you can also request to get those resumes and look because if you are underrepresented in a particular group, whatever that might be, if it's male or female, just for example, um, and you do see some um potential candidates. I don't think there's anything wrong in saying, hey, here's some other people to consider and forward that on to the committee so that they can use that as part of their pool for consideration. Because when I and I've been on search committees, when you have to try to narrow it down to five people or 10, you know, it, it could get very limiting, especially if you have a, a big group of people of resumes that you're reviewing. But if there are some characteristics that you see within some resumes that you might see that the committee may not see because the committee is not always necessarily, uh let's say subject matter experts for that particular field, depending on how the committee is set up. That's one way, of course, one of the things that we have to do just as part of our process in working with our hr our committee within itself has to be diverse. Um that, that's a requirement, male, female and, and then um even background. So that's, that's one of those other things that just from the get go from the establishment of the committee that is something that has to be done. And then you try to find ways in, you could say an additional prescreening of some resumes to try to um work towards filling a void when you're looking for positions. Uh But you have to be conscious of it. So if you are aware that you are lacking males or XYZ in a particular area, then you just have to be diligent and it's not to say that you won't necessarily give other people a fair shot. Uh But it's, but it's also saying that I'm going to be intentional that at least from the pool, I wanna try to see who from the pool also can, can fit that particular criteria. Those are some things that I can at least share that we've done or we're trying to do to, to be deliberate with our hiring. What I appreciate about that is I think there's a lot of focus on repeatable process and I think what you know, and that equity is somehow borne out through a repeatable process, which I think is in fact, in part true, having a process that builds equity into it can, you know, lead to good outcomes. But what I hear you saying is also and take a step back and think about whether or not that process is working as you're executing it and modify it as you can and don't be afraid that you're doing something different. Um If you need to in order to be equitable. So I think that's a nice balance to the idea of building equity into process. So, Doctor Garson at the Acro annual meeting, we sat down with people, you were one of them and we recorded little snippets of a few different questions. And one of the questions we gave people the opportunity to answer was what do you do for self care? And that audio has been lost to time. We lost everything we did. So we do not have. I know since this is a part of a audio medium, I want it noted for the record that Doctor Garson's face was shocked. You're shocked. I would love to have the opportunity to repeat the question to you if you're willing to answer it and maybe we can wrap up with something fun, which is Doctor Garson. What do you do for self care? What do I do for self care? It's a variety of different things. Uh And definitely, I also say I need to do more of it even though I do a lot of it if that makes any sense. So one of the things that I do for fun, I teach line dancing. I love it. Um teach it um twice a week. Um Also just started teaching on campus and the students and staff have been coming out and they want more. They're like, what's the summer schedule? I said we have graduation, first summer schedule. We about to get degrees in line Dan and San.-- This is great. Yes.-- So, so definitely line dancing is by far my national pastime and, and I got into it when I first moved into Maryland. And uh so I know a lot of line dancers. I love to line dance and teach. But then also part of that is going different places where they have workshops and conferences for line dancing. And so I'm, I'm, I'm involved in that. I haven't traveled as much uh as I have in the past. But that doesn't mean that I won't and give me music and I'm line dancing. So at the end of the awards thing that we had this week, you know, I had the DJ there, I was like, OK, we're gonna turn it off. I said, put this on and then started line dancing students and staff. I like, let's do it. Let's so, so make, we need you to do that at Acro. We, we were going to do that to Shana. We literally were going to do that after the experience acro but we couldn't find the room that they gave us. So black caucus was getting ready to come together and be like to the left it back. Now, y'all, we was, our song was ready. We were ready, but we could. So we didn't, no problem. And food for thought, we all need a room uh at, at the conferences. They're at, they're in the lobby. They're right out a-- place with music and turn it-- up and we got phones, we got, and he got a playlist. Doctor Grason got his playlist ready. Always, always specific type of music. Is it like all music? Like what does one like all cowboy carter? Don't you speak cowboy Carter? Nothing, not allowed to talk. Let me, I'll, I'll speak it in this sense. So a lot of folks sometimes when you think of line dancing, you might think of progressive or country line dancing, which is fine uh urban soul. Line dancing is basically the same thing, different music, different steps or a little bit more flavor. It's basically the same thing. OK. So, and I have taught a variety of different line dances from gospel R and B uh hip hop. Um I've done some country and yes, the Texans hold them. There's a whole bunch of dances and we did one last night. So yes, it is there. It is possible. Not a, not a problem. And sometimes even what happens in the line dance community, you can take a dance um which is called Come Dance with me, which is a progressive line dance made by Joe Thompson. And so they took that line dance, changed the music and that is what's called the Taa dance, which is can't get enough. So that's a progressive line dance that or you would call co country music, but it wasn't country music, but that came out of the progressive realm, music got changed. But still giving credit to the choreographer Joe Thompson.-- But then now it's a hit. But you know that dance is old but I'm just,-- oh, ok. Ok. So, ok, we, we understand that the doctor in your title stands for a lot. And we also, ok. All right, line dancing. We got it. But for those that did not get it, that to me, a dance was frustrating. Yes. But you need the right instructor. You need the right instructor to break it down. I was doing that uh Wednesday night with the students cause of course, um a lot of people wanna learn it and it's the footwork but you have to have someone who can break it down. There is a difference. And this is the educator in me between a choreographer and an instructor. And both of those are not mutually exclusive because there are some choreographers, great footwork. They are awesome but you see them try to teach a dance. They're like uh they sometimes don't even have the patience to break it down. So, and, and you have to also think of that from uh educational standpoint, you know, some instructors, they are great content masters, but in the classroom trying to translate that material. And so we're talking about diversity, ho how about their ability or inability to relate the information, translate the information to different populations of people. That's the challenge. So when you talk about diversity. That's, that's another aspect we even begin to. But that hits and that and that because that and that, oh gosh, that mm Doctor Gam, we might need to have you back on the show to talk about this because how many students get tripped up from the transition of post-secondary? Am I saying that right to higher ed? Because you were taught by teachers who went to school to teach and then when you get to a university, you are taught by expert matter. People who didn't necessarily go to school to learn how to teach, agree and are there parameters within the university setting to help those individuals become better practitioners in teaching? Have them look at the data to see? OK. Yeah, I've been doing it this way. Da da da has it been effective? And if it's been effective, which groups of people, has it been effective? And then if there's a group of people that is not being effective, why do you think that is stop and think about that? And it's not? Yeah, and it's not coming from a punitive standpoint, it's coming from help, help us understand because this is what the data is saying. So there is something not registering with this population of people. And it's like, how can we work towards addressing that? What are the tools that they could be given to begin to think differently? But folks have to be flexible to get out of their skins and they hurt feelings if, if we're asking them to do something different, but it's for the benefit of the student. Um The last couple of things I wanted to quickly say other things. I'm big with friends, family. Those things are important. I love my trips. So later this year as I celebrate my 50th, I'll be going on an eight day cruise to Greece hitting a couple of different spots. So, oh, I'm all about a good trip. Uh Last year I hit Alaska. So um those are some of the things and then I could be very simple. Hanging at home Netflix football, uh Mi mindless social media, youtube IG stuff. I can, I can chill out when I want to. I have what is called, I'm doing it with air quotes. Reggie time. My friends know when it's Reggie time. Leave me alone. I, I went to myself. I love it. I need that. I love it. I love it. I, and I OK, I got one more question now, I got one more question. How can we get Ingrid to go to an H BC U homecoming? Yeah, this is a, this is a project that they have for me. What, what state are you? I'm in Minnesota.-- No, but-- she's gonna come, she has family here. So we're gonna tell her we need to know when your homecoming is and we're gonna get her down here. You're trying to tell her it's nothing like an H BC U homecoming.-- I agree. I it's like a big-- family reunion.-- It,-- it, it, it is. And so this past year was my first one. So I got a chance to see it now. I could help put my foot in it. So, so. Yes, so, so, so, so, yeah. Um I don't care what it is, but there'll be an element of line dancing somehow. Yes.-- Yes. You know, it don't take much, it don't take-- much. It doesn't Doctor Garzon. You have danced your way into our hearts. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Please come back. Please come back and be with us. You're fantastic. My pleasure for Reggie Time. You got the-- episode-- title Reggie Time. Thanks for listening to another episode of HD. We'd love to hear from you. Please send us an email at HD at acro.org with any feedback you have for us or show ideas. This episode was produced by Doug Mackie. Thanks, Doug.