Neurodivergence: Firing the Synapses of Connection

At the 2025 AACRAO annual meeting, attendees will have the opportunity to join today's guests for an exploration of neurodivergence in their session, Firing the Synapses of Connection. In this episode, HEARD welcomes Ellissa Thomen, Associate Registrar at the University of Iowa, Sara Sullivan, Associate Registrar at Cornell University, and Sara's son Will Sullivan, currently a student at Kirkwood Community College in Cedar Rapids Iowa for a very personal conversation about their own journey on the spectrum of neurodivergence. This conversation brought some tears and a lot of laughter. 

Big lessons: Be brave enough to be yourself, listen to the people around you, and never hesitate to tell someone how awesome they are.

Here are some additional resources shared by our guests:

• ADDitude The ADHD Diagnosis and Testing Guide for Patients
• Diagnosis of ADHD in Adults
• Harvard Health: What is neurodiversity?
• What is the Neurodiversity Umbrella?

Transcript

0:03

Sometimes it's just somebody else believing in you and seeing your strengths and helping you shine can really help someone move forward. So I guess I would say, never be shy to tell someone they're awesome, um, because you don't know what it will do for them. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of He. Don't mind me, I am getting over the flu. At the 2025 Aro annual meeting, attendees will have the opportunity to join today's guests for an exploration of neurodivergence in their session, firing the synopsis of connection. So today Heard welcomes Alyssa Thoman, Associate registrar at the University of Iowa, Sarah Sullivan, associate registrar at Cornell University, and Sarah's son, Will Sullivan, currently a student at Kirkwood Community College in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. They're joining us for a very personal conversation about their own journey on the spectrum of neurodivergence. This conversation brought some tears and a lot of laughter, and I'm not even sure how to summarize it for you all. I'll say the big lessons I took away are be brave enough to be yourself, listen to the people around you, and never hesitate to tell someone how awesome they are. You are all awesome. OK, enough of me. Let's get started. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Heard.-- I'm Ingrid-- Nuttall. I'm Porsha Lamar, and I'm Tanna Curtis. And joining us on the podcast today, we have 3 guests, 3 fabulous guests, Sarah Sullivan, Alyssa Thoman, and Will Sullivan. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome all. You're welcome. Um, I want to note for the record that Alyssa and Sarah have already appeared on other Acro podcasts before. You were both in separate episodes of For the Record. So you go ahead and check that out if you want to do that. I think, Alyssa, you did one with Phil Hunts on, um, was it on diversity and Yeah,-- grassroots DI-- grassroots, grassroots DI and Sarah, you did one on um sort of like the female experience like empowering women's professional journeys with Beth and Becky. Yep, women supporting women, women supporting women. I love it. Um, so we're welcome. Thank you for making a repeat. Well, I know this is your first time on an Acro podcast, certainly not your last. I'm gonna. I know, it's gonna be so much fun. So we like to ask our guests to tell the acro community a bit about who they are, their identity, and their higher education journey. Alyssa, Sarah, and Will, can you each tell us a bit about yourselves, maybe, uh, starting with you, Alyssa. OK. I'm a seasoned professional with over 15 years of experience in higher education. For the past decade, I've worked at the University of Iowa registrar's office, managing various components of our student records system. I was diagnosed with ADHD in 2020, and I'm a passionate advocate for neurodiversity and higher education, and I strive to create an inclusive and supportive environment for all students, promoting understanding and acceptance of neurodiverse individuals through my work and my outreach efforts. Sarah, what about you? Hello. Yes, um, I have worked at the University of Iowa for over a decade and am recently transitioning to um The associate registrar for compliance role at Cornell University, and I was diagnosed with OCD. A long time ago. Um, a long time ago. And so, while my neurodivergence is slightly different than my son's, that's part of our story as well. And so I am a mother of two children, William, who you will meet in a moment, and Jess, who is 14, and, um, And I'm looking forward to to chatting with everyone today. Thanks for having me. And well, I would really appreciate if you would introduce yourself, and I so appreciate it, even though it is an audio medium that you give a big thumbs down when Sarah mentioned your sibling. Please, please introduce yourself. I meant every single actor with love, he meant it with love, the love of a thousands, um. Uh, hi, uh, I'm Will. I'm a seasoned professional of exactly -15 years in this space. Um, currently, I am a student at uh Kirkwood Community College. I've been going there for about, well, this makes 4 semesters now, um. And I'm like, oh man, I'm 2 classes away from finishing out an associate's degree. I can, I can, yay. It's on the tip of my tongue. I can feel it. Uh, some other things about me are that I generally, uh, consider myself to be a writer, um, and now I guess out of nowhere a public speaker, don't know how that happened. I was diagnosed with ADHD in 2023 and it's, it's been quite a journey. Especially in regards to how that kind of interacts with my mother who has OCD as she mentioned. So, you all have said some words and that, and this is what we're here to talk about. You've mentioned neurodivergent, neurotypical. I don't know if that was really said, but I wanna put that out there as well. Um, and some ADHD and OCD and for any of our listeners that may not possibly know what these terms are, can you please explain all of those? Yeah. So I'll kind of talk a little bit about what ADHD is. It's, um, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. There are different variations of ADHD. There's inattentive, hyperactive, and a combination type. I have the inattentive type, so, um, essentially, my brain will just kind of Poof. Just stop thinking about what the thoughts are lost. Um, and then I have to get myself right back. So this can happen with a lot of people who are born female. Um, we present differently, whether it be biological or, um, societal expectations of how we behave. So a lot of it's internal with racing thoughts, um, and having a hard time harnessing our focus on one thing. Um, so, let's talk a little bit about what neurotypical is. So this refers to people who have neurocognitive functioning that aligns with like our dominant social standards. So everything they do is on track. They're meeting milestones. It's how society expects them to behave and think. Um. It's the common practice. But on the other hand, we have folks like myself who fall under the spectrum of neurodivergence. Um, and this is a term used to describe when someone's brain process learns or behaves differently than from what is considered typical. So, um, but it includes ADHD. It can include autism, dyslexia, OCD. There's a whole host of, um, Neuro, uh, cognitive disorders, um, that fall under this umbrella. So, um, it's what we call the umbrella as a whole is neurodiversity. And this is the concept that we are celebrating a wide range of ways people experience and interact with the world around them. Um, and it emphasizes that there is no single right way of thinking, learning, or behaving, and that these differences should be, shouldn't be viewed as deficits, but instead promotes the idea that these variations are natural and valuable aspects of human diversity. And I might let Sarah talk a little bit about OCD if she wants. So, sure. So, OCD stands for obsessive compulsive disorder. Um, a lot of people think it's as good as it gets, uh, the movie where Jack Nicholson has OCD, there are lots of different kinds. There's ritualistic, um, and some of those, um, actual, um, phobias of germs and, and other things like that. Um, and that is not the kind that I have. I have. Um, the kind with it that it's in my, all in my head, and you can't see me doing the air quotes, but I am doing the air quotes. Um, it's a, it's a thought process. It's, it's processing over and over and cycling through things. And OCD is an anxiety disorder. And so, um, it harnesses a lot on control and it manifests itself in many different ways. And so a lot of times, um, folks Don't even realize that they have any sort of neurodivergence and OCD is along that realm. Um, a lot of people will make comments about being OCD or um having some quirks because they like things a particular way. And that can be part of it, uh, but it often extends to a lot of, um, dissonance and discomfort and anxiety, um, from, from those. Um, experiences, so. So William, as you are comfortable, can you also tell us a little bit more about your specific diagnosis? How did it come about and what were some of the outcomes of having the diagnosis sort of made known to you? What came next for you once you knew? Uh, yeah. Well, the, the buildup is a very long and storied history of about 19 years of, you know, waking up and. Wondering why your teacher is yelling at you. Without, you know, you, you know, you're sitting there, maybe fiddling around with your hands and your teacher was like, hey, now we'll focus on this, you know, hubba hubba ha, right? Um, And, and you can just imagine that writ large over the course of 19 years, and It it didn't really hit me. For a very long time until a friend of mine goes. Uh, hey, Will. Why do you act like that, right? Why are you uh in their exact words, why are you goofy? And You know, it got me to really think about it, and I've been, I've been seeing. Uh, the, the therapist I, I go to right now, Doctor Lindsay Andrew for. 8 years now since I was 12 years old and. You know, I think her exact words when I when I brought this up to her were, oh, you're finally wanting to get tested for this. It's like, oh. So she thought she, she had seen that through her course. So the way that it was described to me is that I displayed a lot of the markers of behavior, right, you know, fiddling around with your hands and stuff, you know, not really being able to look in the same direction, like lots of little tiny behavioral things that When built up into a pattern of behavior, then it's like, OK, we might wanna like. Pull you, pull you in and have a chat. My one question is, how do we not know that it was just teenage behavior with him saying that it was, he was 12, you know, that is right on the cusp of, you know, getting ready to be into that awkward, goofy air quotes again that you can't see, stage, you know, so how, how did that, and then I guess my question for you will is When hearing that you may have had this before, did you accept it or was it just that final click of, oh, OK, maybe I'll get tested. Well, I, I will say the, I skipped over a lot, lot, lot of, oh, no, that's like what the weird kids have, right? Uh, this the earliest that this was brought up to me as a possibility was when I was. I wanna say 15. Um, and I spent 4 years essentially being like. Nah, that's like another guy's problem, you know, it's, it's always. Somebody else's problem until it becomes your problem, you know. Yeah. I think when Will was, when Will first started, um, seeing his therapist, uh, we would get calls from the school a lot. Um, and it, that's how it was not typical. It wasn't typical of what was happening with other kids at school. Even, even some kids who were maybe had some classroom behaviors, I got a call and I still remember, like, Will just got up and walked out, and he went out on the, um, playground and just sat there. He didn't leave. He, he just got up and walked out and was like, I'm done. And a lot of it, um, I thought maybe it was oppositional defiant, you know, like I did some internet doctoring. I thought some of it might have been OCD. I'm like, there's something, and I couldn't put my finger on it. And then when he brought up what he thought it was, which is part of our story. I was in denial. I was like, nope, because I was a public school teacher for 10 years, and I was like, Nah, I've seen, I've seen students who were like that. But when it's your, uh, we're like that, see, I mean, I'm adjusting to the language, who were diagnosed, um. And I couldn't see it in my own kid. And so, I didn't, I didn't see it. I, you know, and until I had my second son, and he's gotten to that age, and they are completely different. It's, it's one of those things where it's like, is that a personal difference or is this something else? I, I wouldn't have known, but it was very difficult. We were like butting heads all the time, because where his tendencies were to like, lose track of time and not be able to focus, mine is hyper-focused. And so the whole time I was hyperfocused on what he was doing and he was like, you know, so. Yeah, I start with one, I feel like this is a heavy topic, and please excuse me if I answer any jokes, but I will because that's just who I am and I will forever do the will and walk out and go sit on a playground because sometimes these meetings make me want to go do that. So that was the genius that you did that to me. Um, but I'm, this is, this is fascinating to, to, to learn. If I could add one more thing, I think the other thing is, Will is brilliant. Um, you'll listen to him talk, Alyssa can, um, can vouch for the number of things that he, he knows. I don't mean to speak like you're not on the call, but it's, it's crazy because, and see, I'm even using those words. It's unbelievable because I see this kid who is so smart and articulate and knows all these things, and these teachers are continually telling me he's falling behind. And he doesn't know X, Y, and Z. Like, he's, he's not performing well in math. And I'm like, I don't understand where the disconnect is here because that's not what I see. And they couldn't see it for all of the other, you know, they, we were not seeing the same things. And so it just, it was so incredibly difficult and frustrating because I didn't know how to speak to my own kid, but I could see my own kid, and then other people couldn't see it. Yeah, and you know, a lot of it. A lot of it does come down to the fact that none of us have like a playbook to follow here, right? Like, uh, so much of this comes down to Uh, personal experience. So part of my diagnosis was also that I got diagnosed with anxiety and depression. And one of the things that we're still trying to figure out is. How much of that anxiety and depression was created by the ADHD going undiagnosed and uh aided for so long, and That leads to outbursts. Uh, I distinctly remember there was one time where. You know, I fell asleep in class. And I woke up and I kinda, I looked around and maybe people weren't staring at me, but I certainly felt the gazes, right? Cause I know I snore and it's it's a whole thing, right, but. I, I was so like. Driven with with uh embarrassment and and anger and. Just all these swirling emotions. So it's embarrassing to admit. I got up and I flipped my desk. Right? And I, I yelled, now you have something to stare at, and I marched out of the classroom. Um, And yeah, I was 12 years old, right, so this is all exacerbated by uh. You know, pubescent chemicals going on in your head and you just kind of outburst, but. Uh Nobody, nobody would have looked at that and said, hey, that's ADHD. Somebody would have looked at that and said, that kid needs to go to juvie or something, right?-- It-- wasn't let's support, let's support that child's, um, well-being and mental health. Like that's a sign where there's extra care and love needed. So it must have been when you got the diagnosis, well, it must have been. Was it somewhat of a relief and then like what did you have to do next with that in order to get the the support that you did need for yourself? Uh, I wouldn't exactly call it like a relief. It was mostly just kind of a confirmation of something that I, you know, the, the undertones of it had been building and building, and that's when the dam finally broke, um, is when my mom said that I should get tested cause she, she held out for a really long time. Uh, she was like, hey, you know, maybe it's XX, maybe it's YY, let's do this strategy, let's do this. And there was a not insignificant amount of just us laying into each other emotionally, um. And you know, so it wasn't really a relief, but what it did do is that it was like, OK. Now there is kind of a playbook, right? And now that, now there's, you know, certain things that we know have worked, and you can try doing these things that can improve it. Like, for me, a big thing is having set constant, uh, You know, things that I do immediately after I wake up, right? I always go and I always lift up my blinds, you know. Ah, so, you know, it it's. It's one of those things where it's it's all. We don't have a playbook. You just kind of have really strong suggestions. Yeah, so do you believe there were any without testing, do you believe there were any misdiagnosis, um, like was, I don't know if you maybe had just one good therapist that was great, or did you have a therapist that may have been like, oh, they, you have this, and you're like, wait, what? That doesn't truly line up. Uh, so Oh, yeah. I've only ever had one therapist. Uh, I do have a, uh, a prescriber who I also go see and I, I, I'm not necessarily concerned about a misdiagnosis, uh, even if there is one there. Well, because here's my, my big thing is that I've built up a rapport with these uh individuals who I work with, right? So even if there is a misdiagnosis, there is still an understanding of my behavior to the point where you can tweak it, right? I got you. I have a question. Um, Sarah, you said you were a school teacher for 12 years. What signs did you see in other students that you could not recognize with your son or, or vice versa? Yeah, um, A lot of the students Who I worked with, um, They had difficulty sitting still, and Will does not have difficulty sitting still. If anything, I was like pushing him to get up and move. Um, and he seemed very lethargic. And I remember calling him complacent a lot. Um, and the students who I had, uh, were very different from that, in that aspect. Um, I think that is the, the main one. The I think the things that I saw that were similar. We're not things that I could relate to, because in my students, I could say, oh, you're having a hard time relating to, I was math and science, right? So, uh, you're having a hard time because you don't like math and science or you're, you're having trouble connecting to the material. But with my own son, it was, I know that you understand this and you're just not trying. And that wasn't the case. So at the next Acro annual meeting, the three of you are presenting a session called Firing the synopsis of Connection that is about all of this, right? Like you're, I, I'm so grateful that you are having this conversation with us where you are being so very vulnerable and I actually Can't believe that you're gonna go do this in-- front in front we're-- releasing a trailer right now. I mean, it's like the trailer is an acro meeting. It's seriously so, um, it is so personal and so vulnerable. So the fact that you are doing this as a part of the Um, conference is just, I'm really grateful that you're taking that step. Um, at any rate, you're, you're describing it as a, a transformative experience exploration of neurodivergence, which you're talking about through these personal narratives. So, what was the journey about how the session actually came to be at Acro that is bringing you together in such a public forum to talk about these very personal things? I feel like I do this a lot with these very, these sensitive topics. Um, but this started with Alyssa. Alyssa is a game changer. Um, she and our colleague Caroline Jen did a presentation called Who Let the Squirrels Out. And I remember that was around the time that Will was telling me he thought he needed to get diagnosed or or tested. Um, And I was like, nope, nope, nope. And so through that experience and learning things from Alyssa and Caroline, I walked out of there crying. I've been quite emotional this whole time. Um, uh, I'm not proud of not being able to communicate with my son. I'm not proud of not believing him when he told me things. Um, But I didn't, I didn't listen, and Alyssa and Caroline. During their presentation, gave words and information and helped me learn. How to talk to my kid. And so I walked out of that presentation bawling and texted William, and was like, I think you should get tested. It literally was that fast because She's so brave and courageous and just explained things in a way that she was painting a picture of my kid. With her words. Uh, you know what, um, you won't take me there. This is not that show. I'm not gonna get teary eyed, but I, I feel it because, and that's why I have the questions that I have because, um, I don't wanna tell too much, but, you know, my kid had some. Some Some anxiety thoughts that, you know, we, you know, she needed someone to talk to and I was like, sure, fine, and, and got to know someone and that's why I asked about the misdiagnosis because the lady, the the therapist was kind of like, I think she's autistic, and I was just like, well, wait, hold on. Uh-huh. Like, you know, it was just like, where does this come from? then our medical doctor was kinda like, well, if I had seen, and I understand it's a spectrum, but if I hadn't seen anything, I would have, you know, noticed something, but I haven't. So again, I'm in your position where I have backed away, and I don't wanna. I don't want to be like, well, I won't do it, you know, even though they said just get tested and she looked at it as a negative thing. Um, she is in her teens, early teens right now. So again, that's why I literally every question I'm asking is because I'm like, is this me? Um, every story is not the same. And I do understand that every person is an individual and different and goes through, they navigate life differently. That's just who we are as humans. But yeah, this is, this is hitting home and I totally understand, Sarah. I mean, even down to My kid came home one day and said she couldn't see and I was like, girl, what are you talking about? You know, like, and she's like, I can't see it and I'm when I'm in the gym, I can't see that far away. I'm like, no, I can never see that far away. And then I'm finally go. And has been a glasses wearer to this day. So you know, as, as parents, we take on a lot. We want the best, but. We don't, we're not with them every day and we don't fully understand how they navigate life. So it is, it is, it's day by day. So I say all this to try to hype myself up and be like, we're doing a good job. It's just It is, it's things that we weren't grown up with to know. And we were like, the world is either this or this. There's no in-between. And we are now navigating a world in which where we're learning, there's a whole lot of in-between. And it's trying to learn and understand, so. Um, Alyssa, go ahead. You bring up a lot of good points, um, about parents just doing the best that they can. My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 5 and um I still don't have all the answers on how to help her. And something that I often think about is with all this information, all these resources out here, why am I still struggling to find them right? Tools and resources for her, and then it it like takes me back and gives me empathy for my parents. Because they had nothing. We didn't have the internet and all of the studies were on young white boys. So we're talking about, um, people of color, women, girls, just being characterized and told this is who you are as a person. So all those quirks Sarah talked about. Um, I felt were personality traits. But it, it was my ADHD, um, being told that I was an airhead, or when I asked questions in math, and my teacher says, Alyssa, are you playing Chesy girly games with me? I have to now as an adult, unlearn those comments that were given to me. Um, there's a lot of layers, um, and this is still very young for a lot of people. So I think Um, having this presentation and just getting the information out there in front of people is so important to us. And I will forever be grateful to Sarah and Will for sharing their journey with me. I've learned so much from them. I've learned so much about how to approach my daughter, um, and to make sure that I'm her biggest cheerleader, um, in life. And I will do anything I can to level the playing field for her. If The way she's learning in class is not conducive for her learning style. We're gonna work on it at home and we're going to do it together. We're gonna change it, um, because I know she's smart, just like Will, you know, she's brilliant. It's just the way she's getting the information. Alyssa, I'm glad that you brought that up, um, when you said about your parents because I don't wanna date myself, but during, we had no resources and they all put us in one category. And when you say people of color, yes, you are 100,000% right, because it was only one category for us at that time. There were no spectrums, there were no in-betweens. It was this and this is your wing in the school. So, I really appreciate that. And I just appreciate this conversation. Um, I feel like, well, like I just wanna walk away right now, um, because it's just too much for me and I, I really just wanna walk away. I think, um, I think Will and I have had this conversation a lot if Will is a cisgender male, he's straight presenting and um middle class. We talk about the privilege that that gives him all the time, because if he looked different, then he does, and he ran out onto the um Onto the playground, he could have very well ended up into in the alternative school in our town. And he wasn't. And so, We do talk about how fortunate we are that we have the access to medical care and and mental health care, but all of the privileges that we have in our family that led us to be able to figure this out and to give him the path to success, even though it's like right in the middle of, you know, right in the middle of entering college and all this change, um, his story could have ended very, very differently. Yeah, and I think that's a good segue cause I know that. And with my former years of being a teacher as well, Sarah, I know that um high school is different when it deals with uh students, um, and I don't know what you and Will have, but I know dealing with um IEPs, individual educational plans, is very, very different on the high school and below level. Well, how did you navigate all of that when you went into higher ed? Uh, The short answer is at first they didn't. Right? Uh, So, coming out of high school, we're pretty sure that, you know, changes needed to happen. Um. And then I entered into college and I gave it. A semester and a half of the, you know, the good old college try. And It, it just. crushed me, right? Uh, I've always had this kind of rhythm to my school career where a new semester or in my school, we had trimesters up until high school or up until I finished high school. Um, And I've always kind of had this like, I'll start out really good, dip way, way down in the midsection, and then I'll be like, oh crap, gotta. Get back up and I'll, you know, grab the chain and on my way back up, right? Um, And It's also worth noting that like. But nobody's dealing with one thing, right? No, right? And Uh, For instance, I, I have a condition called Ampliopia. Um, that we, we found out when I was pretty early on, I was 6 years old when we first kind of. Got the ball rolling on that, but essentially, I have an internal deformity which makes it so that uh my vision is skewed. OK. It's uh colloquially known as a lazy eye, but it's Internal instead of how it is on most people or most uh commonly understood cases, which is external, we ride ships. Um, And I do, I do think that that kind of hurt me a little bit because it's like, oh, I've lived my entire life with my eye problem and it just kinda. Sorted itself out cause, you know, I don't, I wasn't appreciative of how much work my parents put into that. And it just. did not work out. I remember there was a moment where we were kind of like, OK, we need to set some ground rules here. And I, I went up to my, my public speaking teacher at the time. His name was Clark Skaggs and I, I talked to him about it and he was, uh, or I said to him. Hey, I think I'm gonna, I I I've been diagnosed with ADHD, uh. Sorry if anything changes, right? And I what he said to me was. Why would things be changing now? Weren't you working on this when you were diagnosed, and I just had to sit there and go like, 00 no. So, well, because of his eyesight, did have a 504, um, in, in place. It wasn't an IEP, it was a 504, and, and still a legally binding document that we had in place before he graduated from high school that and where we are, it followed him, um, and is in his file. He can use extra time on assignment. I mean, all of that is still there, but he, well, I don't think you use that as much now, and a lot of teachers in high school did not even Abide by it. Really? So, wow, because I, I was under the impression that um and then I did do a little um IP being like the assistant or whatever, but I knew that it was like you had to like you, we granted, well, first of all, let me say this. I worked at an institution. It was a high school in which the model was one size fits you. So that lets you know already. Then we had an area or department that was strictly, you know, you were in there to learn the IEPs who had it and we were there to help fully and to whatever extent it was. But they knew that upon graduating, these students would go to college, and no one would be there waiting for them to help them. It was more on the students who had to seek and advocate for themselves. Yeah. And we had the meetings, you know, we had, he, they knew that he had one, but then once he got to high school, it was like, well, when he gets to college, he's gonna have to figure this out, and they're not gonna give him time for late assignments, and they're not gonna give him all of these different ways to complete these assignments. I'm like, actually, they kind of are, um, because you kind of have to. Um, but he hasn't had to utilize them right now. But yeah, I mean, Unless we pushed harder, right, or brought about legal action, um, which we just were not inclined to do. We just tried to make it through. And there are times when I was like, just let this kid graduate from high school, please, um, which, and now he's like, super thriving. So, Guys, I'm on a podcast. But you know what? That's a lot with a lot of these students like they think like high school is just like, well, and I don't never wanna go anywhere after that. But what they don't understand is sometimes higher education. You're able to pick what you want to, what you're interested in, what you, what you love, you know, as opposed to, I know we have to have it, but the generalized education that I may not be fun. I'm not besties with math. English is not my thing, you know, all those things where it kind of deters them with the whole educational process. So you Yeah, I mean, Will is on a podcast.-- And-- in the state of Iowa, I don't know how it is in other states, but in the state of Iowa, high school guidance counselors who are also in charge with helping with this are extraordinarily overworked. They have caseloads that are far too large. And so unless he's falling through the cracks big time, um, you know, he's really just not going to be on the radar. They have, they're overworked and under-resourced. So I was diagnosed with ADHD this last year. And I know, and it was like, so, well, the reason I asked you like, was it a relief? Was it because it was such a relief. Like it was such a gift to be like, oh, thank goodness. And there is a part of that that is really complicated because Uh, cause you should be able to like. Just love yourself. Love yourself and how you operate. Yes,-- that's why I-- feel like that diagnosis gave me like the permission to love myself. And so I think my the question. That is forming out of this for me is, what were some of the things we've talked about how, um, things were put in place and touched on a little bit externally to help support you. So, getting, getting the, um, the 504 in place so that things could be attached to it, getting the diagnosis. But I'm also interested in for yourself. Like, what were some of the things that each of you did for yourself? To support yourself. Once you knew, and it might be habits or behaviors, but just those things, and what were some of the really meaningful things that other people did for you. One of the things that I've been trying to do for myself is to. Really focus on. Living in the moment. Right, cause it's so easy. With uh the way that my condition affects me personally to be like. Uh, no, hold on, hold on, hold on, stop, stop, stop, right. And instead, I I've kind of had to force myself to just be like. No, just go hang out with your friends, dude. It's not that serious. Right. It's, you know, and also, uh, like, one of the things I, I, I talked about with my, uh, my prescriber a lot is how Lifestyle changes are some of the most Underrepresented treatment things that you can do. Um, so I mentioned earlier, the, the lifting of the blinds every morning. Another thing that I do is I always, I, I walk over and I just, I grab a, a sip of water, even if I'm not thirsty, right? I'll wake up. Get out of bed, march over to the fridge, grab some water. It, it, it is, it's the little. Things that might just improve your situation or your mental health just like. Ever so slightly that is so important. So, after diagnosis, I like fully dove into it. It was my whole personality. It still is, uh, podcasts, websites, social media, all the things. Um, but I think the one thing that has benefited me the most, um, I went to group therapy. Again, thanks to my friend Caroline Jens. She will never know how much she has saved me. I owe her everything. Um, But we went to group therapy together and we built this little community. Um, and we still have a text thread with those folks. It was 3 years ago, and they're like some of my favorite people and we talk about like, how do you organize your laundry or like, how do you meal plan? What is this meal planning all about? I'm too exhausted. I can't do this. Um You know, masking being out in social situations and just being completely drained. So just having people that relate and I can talk to and get it, and there's no shame, um, has been huge for me. Um, and so I encourage anybody to go out there and find their community, no matter what that means, um, ADHD or not. Um, it's so, can you add me to the group chat, please? Thank you. Uh, you know what, at your own risk. We could go, we go down a lot of rabbit holes. Yeah. Um, but also, you know, just Ingrid, similar to what you said, the diagnosis gave me the authority, um, to accept myself for who I am. And stop fighting myself. Stop trying to put myself in a box to do things the way I'm supposed to do things. So gave myself permission to, um, take notes during meetings and always have notes in a one note available to me. And recognizing that I'm not going to be able to always recall everything. And having those tools in front of me and also honoring myself at conferences after we've socialized a lot and I'm just completely drained, saying it's OK to just go to my hotel room at the end of the night and not go out to that dinner. Um, so. You know, it wasn't easy. There's a mourning period of the, I wish I'd known a long time ago, my life would have been so much different. Um, but now that I know and I understand it, the self-acceptance in the community, those have been huge for me. And honestly, I have to thank Sarah, um. Because she has believed in me when I wouldn't believe in myself. And a lot of the things that I have been able to accomplish have been because she has highlighted or pointed out things that I couldn't see. Um, and so sometimes it's just somebody else believing in you and seeing your strengths and helping you shine can really help someone move forward. So I guess I would say, never be shy to tell someone they're awesome, um, because you don't know what it will do for them. Alyssa, you're amazing. Like if anytime you need anybody to tell you how amazing you are, uh, call me up. I may not work your institution anymore, but you have my contact information. Um. For, for me, I was misdiagnosed. That's why um I connected with that. I I have a terrible relationship with alcohol and was labeled an alcoholic. And I had a terrible time with weight yo yoing and was diagnosed with, or, yeah, actually, I was diagnosed with having an eating disorder, which is also not true. And upon diagnosis, which my diagnosis happened, I was counting, it was, uh, in 2013, so that's 12 years ago. Um, that shed light on so much, and it became the opposite of a deficit. OCD is my superpower. I am ultraproductive. I am, I can get so much done, and um I pay attention to details, and It's, it's not always easy when other people also don't pay attention to those details. So, I'm learning to hone that. If I wanted to get tested or someone wanted to get tested, what? What route do I go? What, you know, what's the steps that I need to take? There are some quizzes, uh, self-diagnosis tools online. Um, attitude is a great magazine that has resources, so is Chad. Um, you can, you know, anyone can start there, um, and see if anything resonates with them. Um, and after that, I would find Um, a therapist, someone in your area who can conduct the evaluation for you if you feel that's the next right step. They don't have to be your therapist long term, trust me, the person who diagnosed me is not my therapist. Um, I feel like that's a very personal relationship, so you want someone who's right for you and someone who advocates for you. Um, so the next step would be getting that diagnosis and then figuring it out, um. And Some people choose to take medication. Some people choose not to. Um, it is completely up to the person and what works best for them. Like Will said, there are lifestyle changes people can make too. Um, but I, but I would, um, and I can share a link with all of you to put in the notes, but, um, there's stuff out there that, that people can start with online. Thank you. Oh, this has been um a really special conversation, um. Not just because it's personal and vulnerable and there's been tears, but I think also because one of, because the thing that we're trying to do with these conversations is, you know, we start out with questions, we start out with an interview, we start out with a structure, but really what we're trying to do at the end of the day is show that just being in community with people around something matters and helps launch, um, Launch thoughts, launch conversations, launch relationships. Um, I mean, I really hope that Portia is able to learn how to meal plan after this meeting. I have my doubts, yeah, and part two is going to be Alyssa, do you have kids? Yes, you said you do. I want to sit down and talk parenting and, and living with your diagnosis and Um, How? Because I, I may have talked about my child, but I feel like my sisters told me several times that I need to be checked out. I see it and I know I struggle. I'm struggling. I'm struggling. And I, the feeling of, again, I know you're trying to close this out, but the feeling of, I, my head is barely above water, I feel like from day to day. Of all the things that I have to do and that's, that's a mama and then a mama with something maybe and then you've got all these tasks. So no, I'm not getting my oil changed and no, I'm not gonna be. So yeah, I think that's definitely be part two. And when she's on the side of the road cause her engine blew up, now we know why. If people are listening and they want to do something to support. People who are neurodivergent, people that they work with who maybe have been really public about it, or, or not. What action um would you recommend folks take to navigate this topic in the workplace? Talk to Alyssa. No, seriously, um, talk to people. And I think that one of the biggest and hardest things about this is it's so taboo. And we are, especially in the climate, the societal climate that we are in right now, talking about things that are often societally unacceptable are the things that we need to be talking about. And so, um, I, I do believe the connection comes from talking to people. We are not alone. There are more things that bring us together than tear us apart. And um also, I would say go to that session at Acro because we have all those sessions at Acro that are not about technical aspects. They are not about the actual job, they are about the community and how to connect with other professionals and These kinds of sessions exist and are uncomfortable sometimes, but go to them, listen to the people who are presenting. So, talk to Alyssa. I stand by it. Oh, Alyssa,-- you about to-- Alyssa do you I wanted to, I want to talk to all of you. So when Caroline and I presented last year at Acro's annual meeting, we left in tears and we said we found our people. Because we didn't know there were that many more people feeling the same way we were feeling, or had a loved one who felt the same way. So right after our presentation with, you know, Sarah and Will, I am rushing over with Caroline, and we have a round table dedicated to ADHD. We're leaving the floor open for folks to talk and follow up and see how they're feeling since we spoke last year. Um, But yeah, come talk to me because that is the greatest gift I've ever received from Acro is finding my people, um. Because sometimes it feels like you're a little bit alone. And so it's really nice to see other people understand you. Um, and, you know, as, as far as action, I'd say, always advocate for mental health resources, connect with your community, be there for people. And be brave enough to be yourself, um, because you don't know um how much you will change someone else's life by just being you. And believe your kids. Or don't, as the kid representative. Thanks for listening to another episode of Heard. We'd love to hear from you. Please send us an email at heard@acro.org with any feedback you have for us or show ideas. This episode was produced by Doug Mackey. Thanks, Doug.