Homophobia in Schools, Queer Animals & Hidden Queer History

Welcome back to Let's Be Perfectly Queer Podcast, your go to LGBT Australian podcast for all things queer.

In this episode, Katie is back for a chaotic, funny, and surprisingly educational episode full of queer facts, hidden history, and conversations that spiral beautifully out of control.

From the accidental creation of San Francisco as a global queer capital to female samurai warriors erased from history, this episode dives into the stories we definitely didn’t learn in school.

We also unpack:

•  The rise of homophobic language in schools 
•  Australia’s queer animal kingdom 
•  Why clownfish completely destroy anti-trans arguments 
•  LGBTQ+ history hidden in ancient cultures 
•  The Budapest mayor charged for supporting Pride 
•  Why language and gender have always evolved 
•  And the very important question… does Kirby have a gender? 

Theres a bit of queer education, and a lot of chaotic conversation, like... “how did we end up talking about monkey arms?”

If you love queer history, LGBTQ+ culture, random facts, social commentary, and laughing while learning, this episode is for you.

🎧 Listen now and learn some wonderful facts with us... And until next time, stay perfectly queer!

Links that were useful for this episode:

• Lgbt History Months Facts
• Stone Age Woman buried like a man
• Word origin
• History of the word Girl
• Gay lovers in Egyptian Tomb
• Egyptian Tomb
  
  
  

Transcript

Welcome to Let's Be Perfectly Queer. A queer podcast creating space to talk about all things queer. My name is Archie.

And I'm Katie. And on today's episode, it's a little bit different. So we're going to look at some small bite-sized topics rather than a big episode today. 

And I'm sure that a lot of you listeners have actually missed Katie's voice because you haven't heard it in well over a month now. But yeah, so welcome back, Katie. Thank you. 

After my long hiatus. So some of the topics we'll be looking at today are homophobic language in schools, queer Aussie animals, and Aunt Petunia is gay, just to mention a few. But let's get straight into it.

Okay. So the first topic, it came up on my news feed. That's where I get a lot of my LGBT news or topics or things that I think are interesting to talk about. 

And I saw on the Gabie's Instagram this post, and I wanted to do a bit more research. So the title is how the US military accidentally turned San Francisco into a gay capital. Oh, okay.

So during World War II, the US military began discharging servicemen suspected of being gay. Homosexuality at the time was classified as a mental illness. And when the military personnel were given discharge or blue discharge for dishonorable discharge, it not only formally outed people to their friends and family, but also cut the access to military benefits.

Thousands were discharged because of the ban on queer service members and sent through the port of San Francisco. Rather than return to face their families and places where homosexuality was criminalized or dangerous, many chose to stay and settle in San Francisco. So San Francisco had also become a wartime boom town filled with young workers, artists, and migrants, creating an environment where queer people could find community more easily.

Though apparently the city already had a legacy and reputation as a hotbed for sex and gender non-conformity in the 1800s. By the late 1940s and 1950s, this unexpected migration helped transform neighborhoods like North Beach and later the Castro into main centers of LGBTQ plus life. The city gave LGBTQ plus folk a sense of freedom from judgments they'd not likely receive at home due to their sexuality.

The city also earned its gay capital of the USA status in a 1964 Life magazine issue. Ironically, a policy meant to force gay personnel out of the military ended up concentrating them in one city, helping turn San Francisco into a global gay capital. Did you know that San Francisco was a global gay capital? I didn't know it was a global gay capital, but I did know that they're well renowned for pride as well as being very accepting of the community. 

Especially when you've described San Francisco in the past and the fact that you've gone there, as well as friends who've described it, they've said it was such a very accepting place to live and really beautiful with the type of people that are there. So that's quite amazing in a way. And with San Francisco, I think it's the Castro was the main queer gay district. 

But what I was surprised about when I went there, it was very gay, like gay men. It's not like when we have gay bars in Perth, it's like men and women, you know, they were kind of segregated as like, this is mainly a gay men bar or there wasn't really like a lesbian bar or that kind of stuff was mainly that I think there was one bar that was kind of both. This was a while ago now. 

Yeah, so it did feel very different in that regard. But there was a lot of stores with a lot of pride merch and all that kind of stuff. And yeah. 

Do you think we only don't have that in Perth because we don't have a big enough gay community to facilitate needing a bar just for lesbians or a bar just for gay men? I think so. I think the population in Perth definitely plays an impact. I'm not sure if there are any around Australia that are specifically just for lesbians or just for gays. 

And I could be completely wrong. I'm happy for someone to, you know, correct me there. But I yeah, it's not something really, really see here that I'm aware of. 

But it could be we don't have the the kind of not the need for it, but we don't have the market for it possibly. But I'm not 100% sure. It's interesting because when we went to Japan, there was specifically like gay men clubs and there was even trans men. 

Yeah, there was FTM bars like specifically for trans men as well, where others were welcome, but it was literally known as the I think it's called FTM bar. So there it's quite interesting that but in Japan, it is a whole different kettle of fish because they've got those very, very small bars which seat like six to eight or, you know, five people where in a place like Perth that would not work. The rent would be out of control. 

You're not going to make it back. So it's quite interesting with the different cultures and what kind of bars and places come out. Yeah. 

I wonder how San Francisco is going now with the current climate of the world. That is a good question. If there's anyone out there from San Francisco, send us a message. 

We'd like to hear from you. Please do. So this one isn't queer related, but it kind of relates kind of like I thought it was interesting. 

And I thought that our listeners might find this interesting. So history got it wrong about samurais. Okay. 

So this is not particularly queer, but I wanted to share this. It was shared by every woman is worth Instagram. And I did a bit of research as well. 

So every time I've said one of these places, Instagram or whatever, I've gone and done my own research to make sure that it's correct because I'm not just going to believe a post on Instagram. That's not how I work. Such a good teacher. 

You got to find your sources and make sure there's more than one. Reputable reference. Exactly. 

So apparently history has gotten things a bit wrong when it comes to samurai in Japan. Okay. For centuries, the samurai have been portrayed as male warriors only. 

But new research and artifacts revealed by the British Museum tell a different story. Oh. DNA from Japanese battlefields reveal up to 30 to 50 percent of samurai warriors were women.

Wow. Yeah. Up to 50 percent. 

Yeah. Up to 50. So 30 to 50 percent of samurai warriors were women.

Goodness me. Did it go into them having the same kind of garb? Like the same kind of... It didn't go into that much detail. Okay. 

No. But samurai women were trained, armed, and part of the warrior class. Some defended castles, led households, and fought when needed.

The idea that samurai were only men with swords is largely a modern myth. According to the exhibition, the most celebrated female samurai was Tomoe Gozen, who died in 1247, and whose exploits are the subject of the Tale of Heike. She was reported to have ripped off the head of samurai Uchida Sakura Leoshi, who tried to capture her for ransom. 

Wow. Cool, right? That's amazing. Yeah. 

I wonder what led to the representation only being male. Is it the westernization of it and the patriarchy associated with strength is notoriously foreseen as a male attribute? Right. Because I saw recently a TikTok about a woman who got a lot of backlash. 

She had the title, if my son told me that they were gay or wanted to wear makeup or lipstick, and just throwing stuff towards the screen like they're throwing it at the kid, which is very, very toxic and abusive. And so then a lot of the comments there were like, well, did you know makeup, nail polish, lipstick were originally made for men? Heels were made for men. It is the society that have decided that it's not masculine when they were products made for men. 

So it's quite interesting, you know, back in a time like 1247 about the different roles that men and women played in society and how over time that has changed. Yeah, completely. It's also interesting because you had female pirates. 

There were heaps of them out there and well known and documented as well. But in the movies, we don't see that. And I do wonder if that stems back from the Shakespeare times. 

You know, we recently spoke about Shakespeare and how men were only allowed to act. And so you didn't see that many women actors on stage and the men played the women and so on. And is that kind of like a domino effect from that era? I was like, well, the men have the main roles. 

They're going to play most of the characters on screen because of that kind of knock on effect. And so I'm wondering if that's why, you know, you have all of those men playing pirates. It's misinterpretation, isn't it? It's you see something and you whatever it is perceived as, you're like, oh, is this how it's meant to be if you're not involved in that conversation or that situation? And then this is where we get. 

This is why history is so important, but then also so subjective, depending on where you were in the world, what you're looking at, what climate, because no matter what, it is just a story that has multitude of different angles that you can look at. And I do remember when I was in school, we were taught that if we read a news article, if we read anything like a book, we have to look at the time that it was written to see where the influences come from. And I don't think this next generation of students and young people coming through are being taught all those kind of things because they're overloaded with information.

But instead of actually looking at the time and that kind of stuff, like some are, but not a lot of them are. So it is quite interesting that that's how I was taught. When you read a text, no matter what it is, when you watch a movie, you need to see it from the frame of when it was made and look at what was happening in society, what was happening in the country that it was made in and so on. 

Yeah. And going back to the samurais, it's very interesting that these women samurais could also be heads of household, which makes you think that there wasn't this imbalance as much as perceived about, oh, women always just catering and catering for men and being the ones who cared for the children, that being that, that we actually had women running households in Japan. Where did it all go wrong? Yeah. 

What happened in history to make it all go so wrong? Oh, my darling. So the next topic is homophobic language in schools. And I've said this before.

So if you were to guess the percentage of kids in schools who hear homophobic language, what percent would you guess hear it? Oh, hear it? Yeah. Probably 90 percent. Close. 

This is not something from Australia. This is from just like us UK. So I think that if it was Australia, it would be a lot higher. 

Let's be completely honest. Yes. So in the UK, 78 percent of primary school students hear homophobic language. 

Primary school. Yeah. Oh, I didn't mention that. 

But yeah, primary school students. Oh, that's so disappointing. Yeah. 

And so just like us, UK is a LGBT young people charity and this is primary school. So for those who don't know what primary school is, I'm not sure what it is in the UK, but in Australia, it's from the age of 12 and below. Yeah. 

So I think some countries include kinder and pre-primary in that. Some don't. Some start straight from year one. 

So in Australia from year one, I think you're what, six? Yes. And so, yeah, to hear that language, 78 percent. Wow. 

Yeah. Goodness me. Did it go into what kind of language is most prevalent or? No, it didn't go into that. 

But in a survey of 31,875 pupils across the UK, including 4,307 primary school students, a vast majority responded that they heard homophobic language while for secondary students aged 11 to 18. So that must be UK. So it's 11. 

That's so young. Oh, yeah. I guess it's the same with Australia. 

What am I talking about? We're 11 too. That increased to 80 percent. Yeah. 

Contributing factors included gender stereotypes and social media and have said they have seen it trending on TikTok. Yeah. Which is very sad. 

Yeah. And I know there's been a lot of debate and those who are listening now who are from around the world. In Australia, it is now kids cannot be on social media if you are under the age of 16. 

And a lot of people are up in arms about it. But when you see these kind of statistics, it makes sense because kids are so their minds at that age, specifically 11 to 18, are so malleable. They're so vulnerable that hearing this kind of information can do a lot of harm.

And there was things I was saying, like I've been saying to you for the last few while I was still teaching, not full time, but basically full time, the fact that the language has gotten worse. Yeah. And it was around the time of COVID and TikTok and all that kind of stuff. 

And so that's just having all this homophobic language from other creators, from other people and it being normalized. Yeah. And that's the thing as well, is that we can only govern as much as as a parent, you can really only govern as much as you can control. 

You can't control social media. And also there's the added element of social media is not just Australia. It's all the other countries out there, even though Australia is technically, and I would like to go forward and say it's quite an open country where it celebrates people who are queer, maybe celebrates a bit too much. 

But anyway, it embraces its queer community to a certain level. And then you get all this drive and rhetoric from other countries who are very derogatory to the LGBTQIA plus community. And then that, because it ends up being trending propaganda, is what kids see constantly coming onto their feeds. 

It becomes normalized and then that's what they start actually sprouting, this kind of stuff. So I totally understand the ban, because as a parent, how are you meant to go up against social media? And I think it's empowered parents in Australia to be like, all right, well, this isn't my choice. Thankfully, they don't have to be the bad guys. 

The bad guys are the government. It helps the parents actually take control of the situation and be able to foster their kids to make good choices and to know what this actually means. That by saying some of these disgusting slide comments sometimes that can actually be quite subtle, but it's subtle homophobia that still means exactly the same thing than somebody who's out there screaming the F word. 

So it's good in that way, isn't it? And people forget that this whole social media ban was started by Fitzy, the radio host, because of, I think he was hearing conversations with his kids or something like that. So he had a personal vendetta with social media and how toxic it can be and how addictive it can be as well, because it is an addiction. And so, yeah, so that's how it started. 

And I know that some people were really angry, but then there's other countries who've actually celebrated and recognized that what Australia is doing is really good and they're paving the way forward. I think, you know, social media, it needs to be learned. And the thing is, this all could have been prevented had parents had a child safety count, you know, all that kind of stuff. 

What's a child safety count? On Instagram, it's like you had control of the account, like they could only have it attached to your account. So you could go in and have a look at any time if there's any bullying or anything like that. And people don't realize as well, as a school, if bullying is happening on a social media app, the school can't do anything about it if there isn't proof or if it happens outside the school grounds. 

They may be two kids in the school, but it is so beyond that. All that a school can do is say, here is the e-safety commission and take it forward or say, you can go to the police. We can't do this because this is a social media platform. 

It's like saying, hey, we need both your phones and we need to see all your texts. And so then some parents are getting quite angry at that, but it's a social media app. Yeah. 

And at the end of the day, what the school can control is moving kids from certain classes, but that doesn't stop it from happening on social media. If anything, it can put fuel on the fire. So it actually doesn't matter what the school can control, because even if it goes to the nth degree, even if you were to actually suspend somebody, it doesn't stop the social media bullying happening. 

And if a parent doesn't take the phone away, they're still going to have their phone and they're still going to bully. Yeah. And I do know that it is harder for those students who are in regional Australia who want information like those young LGBT kids or young kids of different cultures who are trying to seek belonging. 

And I do get that, which it's unfortunate that this has affected them in that way. But there is a whole other side of why they've had to go to this extreme. There is two sides. 

And I know there's a lot of people arguing that the social media ban is wrong and for those kind of kids. And I do feel for those young 12, 13, 14 year old LGBTQ kids in rural Australia who don't feel like they have that connection anymore. Unfortunately, they're the ones paying the price for those people who have been doing the wrong thing for those kids who, you know, the parents who haven't been looking at the kids social media and seeing what they're doing. 

And some parents like, oh, they're due their privacy. I didn't have my privacy until I was 16. Oh, God. 

Like if there was a computer, it was out in the open and everybody had access to it because that's just how it was. Yeah, completely. It's not like you had separate accounts. 

It was all one computer, one account. All the history was joint history. Yeah, pretty much. 

Good luck. But it's quite funny just staying on this topic for two moments. It's similar to the reaction of what happened at Port Arthur when we had that horrible incident at Port Arthur in which many people were killed at gunpoint. 

And then we had the gun ban in Australia, which is incredibly successful on all counts. It's the same thing is that we've had this mass bullying and outcomes that have led to deaths of our youth that the only thing that we can do is have a large scale, huge impact on something that is incredibly serious and we can only ever see the outcome. There's pros and negatives to everything, but I feel like in the next five years, we're going to see more positives than negatives. 

And I think it's hopefully going to make a massive improvement on students' attention in schools, not worrying about their phone, not worrying about social media, not constantly having these little bites of information, which is ruining the way that their brains, well, not ruining, but impacting on how much information they can take. And they're constantly needing that dopamine. And so I do hope that's going to make a massive, massive change there as well. 

So many students said they heard it as a joke. See? Laura Mackay, the chief executive of Just Like Us, says homophobic language should never be dismissed as just a joke because we know it has real life consequences, impacting the self-esteem and feelings of shame among LGBTQ plus young people and those from same-sex families. We are worried about young people reporting. 

There's a rise in games aimed at children on TikTok where gay is being used as a derogatory insult. And just leading into this, I don't watch the AFL that much anymore. I just don't have time for it and my team sucks. 

So anyway, but there was a player from, I think it was St Kilda, and they were given a ban for a homophobic slur. And this is the second time they've done it. The AFL made this big thing about the fact that if you say a derogatory, racist, homophobic slur, you get a max penalty and then it increases. 

And so he was given an increased penalty of like six games or whatever it was, or six weeks, and then it was dropped because they said his mental health and all that kind of stuff. And so then they got away with it and the AFL are getting ripped over the coals because they did the same thing last year. If his mental health is so poorly, he shouldn't be playing football at all.

Yeah. And so like, yeah, the stress and the mental health. So then I think it was like either gone down to three or four weeks from the six weeks. 

And so it doesn't set the precedence for the next generation because there's so many young kids watching this scene that that's okay. Yeah. Anyway, moving on. 

Australia's queer animals. Right. All I can think about is those penguins in Melbourne.

This information comes from, remember when we passed away. This information comes from Oz Conservation Foundation. So in captivity, same-sex hookups in female koalas outnumbers straight ones three to one.

Sorry, the word hookups for koalas. So they're not relationships. They're just hookups.

How do we know? They could be situationships. Ask the Oz Conservation Foundation. I don't look at koalas.

So and then one in four swan couples are two dads. Oh, that's beautiful. Researchers observed some pink and grey galahs stuck with same-sex relationships regardless of how many eligible opposite-sex birds were around.

Do you know why I reckon for pink and grey galahs? Why is that? If anyone's ever seen them, the only way that you can tell the difference is from the eyeballs because the female has red eyes, whereas the male has brown eyes. It's only when they actually mature. I could be wrong. 

Someone out there tell me I'm wrong. But anyway, I've learnt this as a kid. It's horrible. 

The females have red eyes. The males have brown eyes. It only happens in maturity, which is like at two to five years or something of a pink and grey galah. 

There's a high chance that all these birds are just out there having sex with each other and have no idea what gender they are. So it doesn't really matter, does it? All clownfish are born male. Yeah, I knew that.

And the dominant one in a group becomes female. Yeah. Finding Nemo, man.

If she disappears, the next male transitions. Yeah, damn straight. So the human race has got it wrong. 

If clownfish show dominance by transitioning to females, the most dominant one becomes female. Why do we have a patriarchy and not a matriarchy? Same with spiders, though, if you think about it. Is it? Yeah, most spiders, the female is the dominant, the larger one, and then she eats her mate.

Because the male is just around there to procreate. That's so interesting. Sorry, guys, we don't care about you.

But then also what's interesting, you know, how people say that transitioning isn't science. Bloody clownfish can transition. Yeah, I think there's actually a joke in Finding Nemo about that as well.

Oh, is there? Yeah. Went straight over my head. Yeah, all of us when we were younger.

Talking about queer animals, a new animal study published has found that 59 non-human primate species engage in same-sex activity. The primates include bonobos, chimpanzees, and macaw, macaw, macaques, macaws? Macaques. What's a macaque? A macaque is a small monkey.

Oh, a macaque. Yeah, they're really cute. So the study was published in the Journal of Nature, Ecology and Evolution on the 12th of January 2026, and is the most comprehensive review of non-human primate same-sex behaviour to date. 

The findings challenge some common assumptions about the purpose of sex in the animal world, suggesting it plays a broader social role. For the study, 491 primate species were reviewed in terms of male-male and female-female interactions, which predominantly involved mounting, ventral-ventral or ventral-dorsal, as well as genital touching and fellatio. Same-sex interactions of a non-sexual nature were not counted to avoid ambiguity.

It was found that same-sex behaviour was more common when animals were subjected to harsh environmental conditions, were at risk of being eaten, or when competition for resources was higher. It's trauma bonding. Yeah, I guess so. 

And the species needed social cohesion to survive. It's also more common in social groups with strict hierarchies, where sex could help individuals manage competition, build alliances and avoid inter-tropical aggression. Oh, so like Survivor.

I guess so. All right, next topic. Budapest mayor charged for pride march. 

Did you see this? No, I didn't. So we spoke about this, I think it was late last year, in Hungary, where we spoke about the nationalist government passing a law banning LGBTQ pride marches. Well, the Budapest mayor, Gergely Korocsonyi was charged by prosecutors for his decision to let the Budapest pride go ahead anyway.

Oh, how brilliant. So in January 2026, prosecutors filed charges against him, accusing him of violating Hungary's assembly laws by organising and leading a banned rally. Good on him.

They're pushing for a fine without a trial. This comes months after the June 2025 marches, but the mayor is standing by his actions, calling himself a proud defendant for defending freedom and LGBTQ plus rights. Oh, that is so brilliant. 

I was actually talking about this to my mum recently, in regards to Hungary becoming more of a democracy. Yeah. And how it's standing for the people more. 

And it seems that, I mean, if we've got a mayor who's actually, a mayor? Yeah, a mayor who's actually standing up and having these actions, not just words, that are supporting the people. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. 

Does Kirby have a gender? So, you know, Kirby, the little pink, little. Yeah. Squishball.

Creature. Yeah. Yeah. 

So Kirby's official gender is generally considered unknown. Yeah, because he's a bull. I mean, sorry, it's a bull.

Or gender neutral in Japan, often described as youngster. Though Western media uses he, him pronouns, in Japanese media, Kirby is described with gender neutral terms and pronouns. Kirby is described as a unique genderless blob. 

They have no defining characteristics of female or male. It's because it's the same as Ditto. Ditto wouldn't say that.

Good question. I need to check my app and see if Ditto actually has a gender. It shouldn't do. 

I mean, Ditto can be anything they want to be, which kind of sounds quite inspirational, to be honest. But I would imagine Kirby is the same. Yeah.

Yeah. Some things just don't need a, oh, you know how there's a lot of languages that. Well, I've got that in here that I'm going to talk about a little bit.

So just quickly. So queer history, you probably didn't learn in school. Archaeologists have discovered a 7,000 year old skeleton in Hungary.

That's challenging what we thought we knew about gender in the Stone Age. In a study published in the American Journal of Biological Anthropology, researchers looked at 125 skeletons from two cemeteries in eastern Hungary, dating all the way back to about 5,300 to 4,650 BC. They weren't just looking at how people were buried.

They also analysed the bones themselves to see what kind of physical activities these people regularly did. By combining burial positions, grave items and the wear and the skeletons, they were able to build a picture of gender roles in that society. And that's where it gets interesting.

Yeah. Because while most people followed expected patterns, men buried one way, women another, there were some clear exceptions. In fact, researchers found that two male skeletons and five female skeletons were buried in ways that didn't match what was expected for their biological sex.

Including a biologically female skeleton buried in a typically male way, with tools and physical markers suggesting they lived a life associated with male roles. Researchers believe this shows that even way back then, societies may have had a more complex understanding of gender than we often give them credit for. Maybe gender roles and societal roles isn't a new thing.

Of course it's not. It's been around forever and people are just assumed that it's black and white when there's definitely some grey and purple in there too. But that's the whole thing, is that if you are living a lifestyle and doing things that you just happen to be good at, the things that you happen to be good at might not be generally the things that you technically, quotation marks, should be doing according to society norms.

Some people are made to forage. Some people are made to hunt. Some people are made to do more complex mathematical things.

I was sporty as a kid, but I could not throw to save myself. How did you not? Cricket, basketball. My arms aren't made to throw, but I can kick, and I can run, and I can sprint, and I can dive.

Not dive, like swimming dive. I suck at swimming, but I was always a wiki keeper or goalkeeper because I could judge and dive and do that kind of stuff. But get me to throw? Nah, I couldn't do it.

Yeah, your calves and thighs are like, pfft. Yeah, it's Asian, the Asian in me. But yeah, my body's just not made to throw.

I just could not throw. Yeah. Basketball's different, like it's a different mechanism.

But yeah, can't throw. That's so interesting. See, I've got monkey arms.

So they can like get anywhere. Good work with your monkey arms. Thanks, mate.

Let's continue. Some LGBT history you might not know, one of the early pioneers of modern computing was a trans woman. Wow.

So Lynn Conway was a computer scientist working at IBM in the 1960s, where she worked on some of the earliest creations of microchips that computers still rely on today. Wow. But when IBM found out she was trans and planning on transitioning, she was fired from the project.

She later went on to have a hugely successful career and is now recognized as a major figure in tech history. I mean, of course she was. If she was a figurehead in this forthcoming technological advance, and they're like, oh no, we can't let you do certain things in your private life that have nothing to do with your work life.

Goodness me, what a waste. I bet they're kicking themselves. Oh, 100%.

Also, fun little language fact, they, them pronouns aren't new at all. Singular they has always been used in English for centuries, long before people started arguing about it online. And even today, a huge number of languages around the world don't use gendered pronouns at all, which is what we're kind of talking about.

And speaking of words changing over time, the word girl actually originally meant a child of any gender. Oh, wow. And man used to just mean a person regardless of gender.

So a lot of what we think of as a traditional language has actually shifted quite a little bit over time. And then I was looking into boy and woman and yeah, so they all didn't mean what we have associated with them today. Wow.

Which is quite interesting. It's very interesting, especially if you think about like fireman or like certain words that are associated. Like an older person.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's a fire, older person.

Okay. Well, because man meant just a person regardless of gender, you know. Just made me think of a person on fire that's an older person.

Anyway, the way that we think is very different. I've got two stories left and then ancient Egypt and one very debated couple. Oh.

So there's evidence to suggest that queerness didn't just exist in history. It may have actually been honoured. So back in 1964, archaeologists uncovered a tomb in Egypt with the inscription joined in life and joined in death.

And inside were two men. And these two men lived during Egypt's fifth dynasty. They were both chief manicurists to the king, meaning they were of equal status and highly respected.