Do you like Supernatural Then and Now? Well, one of our guests called Denim-wrapped Nightmares their "bratty, little sister." And you know what? Accurate! 🥂
Join SPN family newcomers, Berly and LA, as they recap the Warner Bros. CW TV series, Supernatural, episode by episode. Over drinks, they'll discuss lore, gore, and what they adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.
As a way to keep in touch during the 2020 pandemic, Berly and LA started podcasting with their debut, anything-goes talk show, The Tipsy Exchange. During those discussions, Berly and LA realized that they most enjoy talking humorously about TV/Film, mythology, suspense, and hot guys.
A Supernatural podcast seemed a natural fit. It's a match made in heaven... or hell. You decide!
If you choose to drink, please do so responsibly. CW/TW for violent and lewd commentary; listeners beware! 🔞
Dad's still ghosting them (typical) but sends mysterious coordinates that lead to the abandoned Roosevelt Asylum in Rockford, Illinois. Officer Gunderson fills them in on the place's reputation for driving people insane. His partner, Officer Kelly, wandered into a room with a biohazard symbol (smart choice, buddy), got ghost-zapped, and did something truly horrible. Not okay, Kelly. Not okay.
Sam and Dean investigate and meet stoner couple Kat and Gavin, who came to see ghosts for fun. Gavin gets kissed by a ghost with a messed-up face (bottle-smash vibes around the eye), and we agree it was TERRIFYING. But these ghosts might be trying to help, and they lead the boys to room 137 and the dark secrets of Dr. Sanford Ellicott, who ran electroshock experiments on his patients.
Episode Highlights:
Berly guessing someone ate the bodies (wrong, but an A for creativity)
The COOL shot of Kat getting whipped into a room at lightning speed (indie movie quality!)
Another almost-shirtless Dean scene with a good arm and clavicle (the clickbait continues)
Sam getting ghost-electroshocked and trying to MURDER DEAN
LA saying Sam's rock salt line at the exact same time as Sam
The Winchesters packing THREE shotguns between them (prepared AF)
Kat going from "I won't leave without him" to "we're done" by the end
DADDY FINALLY CALLS (cut to black!)
In the lore segment, we dig into DEEPLY disturbing real psychological experiments, from Sigmund Freud's treatment of Emma Eckstein (hello, A Dangerous Method) to the Monster Study, the Stanford Prison Experiment, the Little Albert experiment, and the CIA's Operation Midnight Climax (LA approves of the name). Turns out Dr. Ellicott wasn't the only unethical doctor in history. Plus, LA explains why getting shot with rock salt, Kill Bill style, is basically literal salt in the wound.
Dean: "What are you gonna do, Sam? Gun's filled with rock salt. It's not gonna kill me." Sam: "No, but it'll hurt like hell."
Your turn, hunters: Would you spend a night in the Roosevelt Asylum? And did Kat make the right call? Tell us in the Spotify comments, leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts (it's how new hunters find us), or send us fan mail. Bonus points for fandom fun facts we missed.
Denim-wrapped Nightmares is a Supernatural rewatch podcast hosted by Berly and LA, breaking down every episode of the Winchester saga with lore deep-dives plus cast and crew interviews. Special thanks to David Fesliyan and Fesliyan Studios.
Subscribe, leave a review, and, if you choose to drink, please drink responsibly.
Join the hunt at linktr.ee/dwnpod where you can find links to socials and sign up for emails. Until next time, cheers!
Berly:
Music. Welcome to denim wrapped nightmares, a Supernatural rewatch Podcast where we explore the TV series, episode by episode, over
LA:
drinks, we'll discuss the lore the gore and what we adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.
Berly:
I'm Burleigh and I'm a new fan of the series.
LA:
I'm LA, and I'm here along for the ride.
Unknown:
Hello LA, hello Burly.
Berly:
Last week we watched home, Home again, home again. Jiggety, jig. Have you never heard that saying, My that's one of the things that my parents would say that just has stuck in my mind. That's cute anytime we'd be going home, like, Home again, home again. Jiggety, jig that's what you say. Is it's what you say when you're going home. Like, is
LA:
it a thing, or did they just, like, make it up?
Berly:
Hang on. Let me see. Okay, yeah, I've never heard that. It's from a nursery rhyme, apparently. Oh, okay. Called to market to market. Huh?
Unknown:
We learn something new every day, every day.
Berly:
Well, anyway, what was home about? Let's back home. Let's do a quick recap about where we were last week before we get into where we are this week. Well,
LA:
it starts out, Sam has another dream premonition of a lady in a house, and this is where, this is kind of the episode we've like, learned solidly that Sam's got some what is ESP going on? He's psychic, yeah? And in his premonition, he realizes it's their childhood home, and so he has to convince Dean to go back home. Because Dean wasn't going,
Berly:
No, they did, like, a That's So Raven moment too, where they were showing us the dream, and then, like, zoomed out, and it's Sam, yeah, didn't they? Or am I making that up? I don't know. I might be making say that. I'm like, wait a minute, yeah,
LA:
they go home and meet the lady that is now living in their house, and she's, you know, pretty much her and her little daughter tell them it's the place is haunted, yeah. And they go around town, kind of asking about their dad, and find out that he used to go see this psychic named Missouri, and played by the fabulous Loreto divine. Yes, so good. And so she goes with them to the house. They figure out it's a poltergeist that's inhabited the place, and they set up about they tell the lady, hi, kick it out of the place with your kids. We'll take care of this. They throw some shit in the walls to get rid of the poltergeist, yeah. And eventually they do after it kind of seizes Sam a little Yes, and then a surprising entity arrives to save the day.
Berly:
You can't spoil it. We talked about it last week. Is their mama? Their mom? It's their mama, yes. And then another surprise at the end, their dad is in town right hanging out with Missouri. Man,
LA:
I'd be pretty mad if I was, like, working my butt off, traveling everywhere, like trying to find my dad just, he's hanging out with my friend I was just talking to, right or not, my friend, his friend? Yeah, I'd be, I'd be pretty pissed past
Berly:
off so that's
LA:
the gist of it. It was a good one. I enjoyed it, yeah,
Berly:
I liked it. It was a good one. I really liked this week's episode too. Yeah, it was good. It was very much dark, dark. And it was, I would say, of the quality of an independent horror film. Yeah, I agree. I really enjoyed several of the shots that were in it. They didn't overdo the special effects. Yeah, for this with the ghosts and everything, I liked it a lot. Yeah, I think it was well done. So this week was asylum, and the episode starts off with two cops in front of the deserted Roosevelt asylum in Rockford, Illinois. The officers are Walter Kelly and Daniel Gunderson. And Gunderson is hilarious and wonderful, and I was right off the bat saying, if something happens to him, I'm going to be very upset, because he was really great about letting us, the audience, know about this abandoned asylum, and that it's scary and it's haunted, but they can't keep the kids out,
LA:
doesn't he say, like, you spend the night and the spirits drive you insane? Yes.
Berly:
So he gave us a great backstory. He just seemed like a nice guy. He did. I liked officer Gunderson. Me too. So they go in, and they're looking around, and they split up. Gunderson ends up finding some kids that were in there, drinking, hanging out, doing whatever. And he tells them, get the fuck out of here, kids. And he walks them outside and watches. Them drive off. And while he's doing that, Officer Kelly is wandering around, and he's going down this dark hall, and there's this door with the hazmat or biohazard symbol on it, and he decides to go in, yeah, because of all the doors in the place, why would that not be the one you would choose to go into? And while he's in there, a mysterious door opens, and then we don't see what happens to him, until he's suddenly outside behind officer Gunderson and Officer Gundersen, just like, found the kids, sent them on their way. Let's hit it. And he's like, are you okay? And officer Kelly goes, Yes, and then he turns his head, and blood comes running out of his nose, so we know already officer Kelly is not okay, not No, he's not doing well. Then he goes home, and apparently he and wifey had an argument about something, yeah, because right off the bat, she's going,
LA:
I'm sorry. She's like, How many times do I have to apologize? Yes,
Berly:
and then he pulls his gun out and is like, you're never apologizing again, and he kills her.
LA:
He didn't say that, but
Berly:
he said it with his gun, yeah, well, yeah, yes. And then we find out later, he turned the gun on himself as well. So again, Officer Kelly, not okay. Cut to Sam and Dean Winchester boys in a motel, hotel, holiday and what have you, somewhere, and they are going through their dad's journal. They're apparently reaching out to some of their dad's contacts, basically trying to find out, has anybody seen John Winchester, where is this guy? And they haven't been able to find any leads. And then Dean's phone starts ringing, and so he's looking for his phone. And then it stops ringing, and it turns out it was a text message all along. Confused me, I'm gonna say, and it's coordinates. And Dean, being Daddy's little soldier, is like, let's go. Dad is sending us on a job. Let's go. Sam, being the rebel, has questions. He wants to know where dad is. Why is dad keep sending us on jobs? What is going on? What
LA:
the fuck dad,
Berly:
right?
LA:
I just that just sounded weird, like I would never say that to my dad, so it just sounded very strange when I was like, wow, God. Just said that. I
Berly:
think he would say that to your dad if he wasn't answering your calls. True, yeah, and then would just send you a text message with coordinates in it. True. True, true. Okay, you know, I can't call you back, but here, yeah, here's this, and
LA:
I'm hanging out with a friend that you were just hanging out with, right?
Berly:
Secretly, and I haven't seen you guys because I can't, yeah, what's up? What's up? What's going on. I want to know what's happening. They look up the coordinates, and it turns out, it's Guess what? Rockford, Illinois, the Roosevelt asylum Dean remembers, oh yeah, this is in dad's journal. So they go and look in the journal, and there's an article from 1972 about some kids who disappeared in the south wing at that time, they go to the asylum they do some digging around. They're in the south wing. They're in the office, and they find a sign about the Chief of Staff, who was Samford Ellicott. And they're just like, Okay, so we've got a name, we've got something to start with. Let's do some research into that. Then they track down ellicott's kid. I think it was, it was a son or his grandson, James Ellicott, who's also a psychiatrist. I guess it runs in the family. And Sam goes and has an appointment with the doctor. And during the appointment, the doctor says something about, okay, we all, if you're a history buff, you know, there was a big riot that happened at Roosevelt asylum, and it turns out that there were multiple people killed, including the Sanford Ellicott, chief of staff doctor guy, and that his body was never found, and that there were other bodies that were never found, which is just creepy, weird. Yeah, I don't think they said that it burned down or anything. I think they just said that there was a riot and the bodies weren't bound. So what happened to them? Right? I guessed that somebody ate them, but spoiler warning, I was wrong, just in case anybody else was thinking the same thing as me, because I'm apparently demented. No. So the guys decide, okay, well, obviously, if we want to stop this haunting, if we want to stop these kids from going missing, we need to go find these bodies and salt and burn them. Burn that body. They go back to the asylum, and there is a girl there with her little boyfriend, and they've been wandering around the asylum, and they've gotten split up. So the girlfriend is high. In one room, and the boyfriend is in another room, and one of the ghosts comes up to him. And I'll admit, I kind of thought it was her at first too. There was something off, and I didn't know what was off. I looked like her hair, yeah. I thought maybe she was possessed or something. There was something off. But she goes wandering up to him, and he's like, Oh Hey, baby. And they start making out, grabs and then kiss, oh yeah, she went for it, and then Wally's kissing her. You hear the girlfriend in the background go, Gavin, where are you? Yes, I would go crazy. I was pissed myself. It was so creepy. And so Gavin leans back and sees her, and her face is messed up. Real nice stuff, yeah, especially around the eye,
LA:
yeah, yeah. When you said it looked like, almost like, a bottle. The bottom of a bottle had been smashing, yeah, yeah, something
Berly:
was going on there. It was really scary, yeah. So Gavin screams and runs away, and so he's gone. Kat has gone and hidden somewhere. They're completely split up. When the guys find them. They find cat first, and she tells them, my stupid fucking boyfriend brought me here because he thought it'd be fun to see ghosts, and I didn't believe in them, but I've seen some shit while I've been here, so I'm scared. They tried to take her outside, and she's like, No, I'm not leaving without my boyfriend. She was singing a different tune by the end of the episode, though, because she did decide before the end of the episode that she was breaking up with them if they got out of there alive. So I thought that was funny, that in the beginning, when they first find her, like, I'm not leaving without him, and by the end, we're breaking up. Yeah. So they help find Gavin, and Gavin tells them how he had fallen and hit his head or something whenever Sam found him. And so he tells him what happened. And Sam says, Did she try to hurt you, though? Because Sam had run into a ghost as well, and she just slowly walked up to him with her arms out like she wanted a hug, right? And Dean swung an iron rod at her to get rid of her. And Sam said she didn't want to hurt me. I could tell she wanted to tell me something. So he was really wanting to make sure that he got it clear with the boy that it was the same thing. And then it was the boy was like, she kissed me. She scared the shit out of me. I'm scarred for life. But no, she didn't try to hurt me. I think she was trying to tell me something too. So Sam's like, I've connected it. I've got, I've got something going here. In the meantime, Dean is walking around with cat, and that scene was fucking cool. Which one Dean's walking with cat? And they stopped for a second. He's like, messing with his flashlight. I think it's flashlight was flashing on and off, and then cat goes, You're hurting my arm.
LA:
Oh, that one yes, yes.
Berly:
And Dean looks up and turns to look at her. It's like, what are you talking about? And his flashlight comes on, and we see a hand on cat's arm. And they had to have sped it up or something, because something pulls cat into a room, and the door slams around behind her. It was
LA:
like, it's like, they whipped her around and, like, just Dr, like, not even dragged, like, in the air, pulled her into the room. It
Berly:
was cool. Yeah, it was super fast. We watched it two or three times, but it was a very cool shot. This was one of those shots where I immediately was going. This is Movie quality, indie movie, but movie quality nonetheless. And then I remembered what we learned in our pilot episode, that this is all low budget. So kudos to everybody on this episode. I thought y'all did great. So Sam and Gavin come and find Dean trying to break into this door to help Kat. And Sam tells her, don't fight it. Just face him. He just wants to tell you something. So Kat follows Sam's advice, yeah,
LA:
because there's another ghost in there with her with a messed up eye.
Berly:
Yes, I forgot that part. Yeah, yes. So the ghost pulled her into the room, because that's where they were. So she follows Sam's advice, and the ghost tells her room 137 so she gets out of the room after he tells her that, and of course, they decide to split up again. Because, yeah, it's just what you do in these situations. Get
LA:
these kids out of here. Yeah.
Berly:
So Sam takes Kat and Gavin and is trying to get them out of the asylum, but for whatever reason, they can't find an exit. And even when they find something that they think they can get out with, Sam can't get the door open, and there's bars on all the windows, so even if they broke the glass, they couldn't get out that way either. Not sure what happened there. They didn't really explain it. Yeah, it was just kind of this general, you know, whatever's here doesn't want us to leave, kind of thing. And it was left at that and Dean went looking for room 137 so Sam gets a call from Dean, and all of a sudden, Dean's saying, No, I'm in the basement. Come down here,
LA:
which, okay, I had a problem with because Sam was just sort of like, All right, I'll be there. I'll go, go meet in the basement when I'm like, the plan was to go to room 4137, like, why would I would on the phone. I would have been like, well. Are you doing in the basement? I thought we were supposed to be in that room, but no. Sam, just okay. I'll pay there, which
Berly:
is odd, because you have all these questions for your daddy, yeah, but if Dean tells you something all of a sudden, it's no questions asked. Yeah.
LA:
I was like, That was dumb. Hmm, Sam,
Berly:
maybe you do need to go back to that doctor, that shrink doctor, and talk more about your brother. Yeah, huh. So Sam goes down to the basement, and we see the same fucking doors that the cop passed by earlier, first the boiler room and then the weird biohazard room. The door flies open, and the ghost of Dr Sanford Ellicott, the bad doctor, is down there, and he does something to Sam, we don't grab his
LA:
head, yeah? Like, lights him up. There's like, the lightning, yeah,
Berly:
somehow, as a ghost, he got the power to electromagnetic No, what's it called, what, where they put they, like, actually do that? No, like five shock therapy. Yes, somehow, as a ghost, he got the power to provide electroshock therapy without any tools, which kudos to you, doctor. I'm sure that is your dream afterlife, based off of what Dean found. So what did Dean find? I
LA:
kind of missed it a little bit. He was in the guy's office looking for stuff, and then there was a little chip in the wall, and it was like a little cubby hole hidden. And he found his, like, patience journals and like a little briefcase looking thing old school was really nice. It was like leather, well, taken up with me, right. But, yeah, it was, like, his patients journals, and there was, like, all these drawings in there. And I remember one drawing was like a head with this giant needle
Berly:
going in the eye the bottom me, yeah.
LA:
So Dean, like, figures out that, which, I don't know how he figured out the secret room kind of thing, but he figured out, obviously, he was doing some weird, like, fucked up experiments with these people there. And so somehow, I don't know if that maybe, maybe we missed it and it was in the book, but there's some room, secret room, that he was doing all of this in. He must
Berly:
have read it, because there were words. There just weren't enough time for us to, like read the words true, you know, especially with the pictures drawing our attention instead. So I'm guessing he actually read stuff
LA:
well. And I was like, so I feel like the guy was trying to help them. He wasn't just like a psycho, right? Like he was trying to,
Berly:
I don't know, in the afterlife, he looked like a crazy what was the doctor from pack to the future? Oh yeah, yeah, the doc. He looked like a crazy doc, and was able to do electroshock therapy with his fingers, but he was
LA:
like, I'm going to make you better. Yes. So I want to believe he was trying, and he
Berly:
just made everybody I think that Dean even said in the notes that after treatment, people just got worse. They would be angrier, and they would be paranoid and all of that. Yeah?
LA:
Because the whole point was, he was trying to figure out a way to let them release their rage. Yeah? Because he thought if they could release it, they would be better, which, I'm like, Just get, like, boxing bag or something, like, let me just beat the shit.
Berly:
Get a stress ball. Yeah, squeeze where
LA:
don't give them a lobotomy, like my god or electroshock therapy,
Berly:
God. So Sam is down here having this happen, and in the meantime, Dean has gone through 137 he's ran into cat and Gavin. And they say, Well, you called Sam and told him to go down to the basement. And Dean says, Well, fuck me. No, I didn't that wasn't me. Oh, so Dean already knows some fuck he's about to go find some fucked up shit. Yeah, he gives cat a shotgun. Oh, wait, no, Sam gave cat a shotgun.
LA:
No, it was Dean, no, it
Berly:
was Sam. It was Sam Bo. That's right before he leaves to go down in the basement. Sam gave Kat and Gavin a shotgun, and then it shows Sam in the basement, and he has another shotgun, and then dean also has a shotgun.
LA:
I'm like, how many shotguns are these guys packing on them? These windshields,
Berly:
they are prepared.
LA:
But like I said, they're not like the big old shotguns. I liked them. They're almost like little handheld ones. Yeah, I
Unknown:
don't know they're cool.
Berly:
LA and I, neither one of us, have really wanted guns all that much, but the show makes me I want a gun with an ivory handle now. Oh, yeah, I want a sawed off shotgun.
LA:
Hey, it's rock salt. They're using rocks. I
Berly:
want a machete. I want i Hey, Dean goes down and finds Sam, because Kat and Gavin are okay. She's got a shotgun. She clearly knows how to use it, because she almost took Dean off,
LA:
which they should edit that a little better, because it made it look like he she clearly saw him, and then, like, shot at him. So it's like.
Berly:
I don't know. I
Unknown:
was like, that's a little delayed.
Berly:
When Dean gets down to Sam. Sam is obviously not right, like, something's off. And he's like, I'm fine. And then we see the blood come out, and then he's trying to kill Dean, basically, with the shotgun, yes,
LA:
one of that being one of the many, and
Berly:
saying some things, like, you're always like, ordering me around and I'm over it, and he's not a happy camper that Sam and so Dean tricks him by giving him a handbag. He
LA:
shot him first, remember, with the rock sauce? Oh,
Berly:
that's right, Sam actually did shoot Dean first and Sean through the a wall that led into the secret room. Oh, that's right, Dean was trying to find the secret door, and that's why Sam suddenly started getting really aggravated, because he was trying to keep Dean from finding the secret door. But then he shot Dean, and Dean fell through the secret door. Anyway, once they're in the secret room, Dean tricks Sam by giving him handgut and telling him to use that instead, so that he can actually finish the job and it's not loaded. So that distracts Sam. Dean ends up punching Sam, knocking him out,
LA:
but which, like, pretty fucked up, like he actually, he legitimately was gonna shoot his brother. He was possessed that? Well, no, but I thought it was like it let the rage out.
Berly:
He was really angry. I
LA:
guess he secretly hates Dean.
Berly:
But I mean, also, I think he was trying to protect him from going in that room because the doctor didn't want him to come in. That's what I thought. I was under the impression that he, the doctor, was somehow influencing Sam to stop Dean from coming in. That's what I thought. Okay, I could be totally wrong. No, no, you're probably right. Once Dean gets Sam knocked out, he actually finds Dr ellicott's body, and it was disgusting.
Unknown:
Oh yeah, it was little hair. Part of his hair was, yeah,
Berly:
the door. It wasn't a skeleton. It's was still kind of meaty, yeah, so I just imagine it smelled. Oh yeah. Jensen Ackles definitely let us know that in his performance that it stank. So he's it stank, it stank. He salt and burns it, but before he can light it on fire, the ghost of Dr Ellicott comes out of nowhere and it's like,
LA:
I'm going to make you better.
Berly:
Oh, and he like, grabs Jensen Apple's face, Dean's face, I should use the character grabs his face and is electrocuting him as well. And I thought it was a nice touch that there was an electricity line because Dean's mouth was open and where his thumbs were on Dean's cheeks on either side. They were connected inside Dean's mouth. Yeah, it wasn't the greatest special effects, no, but it was good. But I still thought it was a nice touch that we could see that it was electricity at this point. Because before, whenever you grabbed Sam, I wasn't positive what happened whenever he grabbed him, but now we can see it's it's electricity. He's actually doing electroshock on them. Luckily, Dean is able to grab his lighter and toss it on the bones anyway, even though he's being attacked, yeah, and the ghost like turns to concrete stone or something. Once it's getting burned, the soul, the body's getting burned. The soul is doing its own thing. It's what's trying to attack dean. And it like, turned to concrete and like, crumble. Crumble. Yeah, it was crazy. And then Sam was fine after that, whatever effect had happened from the ghost with the electric shock and all that, Sam was okay. They get cat and Gavin out. They are going to their car, and there's some tension. So Sam is like, I'm fine. It was just the, you know, whatever the doctor did, that's it. And you could tell Dean is just kind of like, yeah, okay, sure, yeah. There's a little bit of tension there well.
LA:
And Sam was like, Do you want to talk about it? And Dean's like, No, not in the mood, right? All
Unknown:
that touchy feely shit.
Berly:
He was not happy, no. But I mean, to your point, you literally almost killed your brother, yeah? And Dean read that stuff so he knows it's just about releasing existing rage. So awkward, yeah? Little awkward. I
LA:
mean, awkward drive back.
Berly:
Can't imagine cut two. They're back in the hotel, and we get yet another click tease of a shot, yes, where Dean is in bed. We get to see his arm. It's a good arm. It was a good arm. Little, real good arm. But the sheets and the cover are pulled up, so we got to see his clavicle. The girl from hookman would have been like, oh, scandalous cover up. So we did get to see that, but the covers were pulled up, so we didn't get to see a whole lot else. But it was a real nice arm. And then it pans over, and Sam's sleeping in a shirt. Again, weirdo. I. Thanks. But anyway, the phone starts ringing again, and we're like, is it a text message? Is it call? We don't know. Who knows at this point, it's gonna be a surprise. Sam wakes up and answers the phone, and finally, it's Daddy. Winchester, daddy.
LA:
Cut to black, yeah, that's
Berly:
the end. So let's go. Let's, let's talk about so there wasn't any Gore at all. I mean, they didn't, I mean, the blood coming out of the nose, was it, even when the police officer killed the wife, it just showed from the outside, yeah, where you could hear the gunshot and see the like, little flash of light. Yeah, there wasn't any Gore, but it was definitely kind of a mystery, and some really cool spooky, spooky stuff. Yeah, no Gore, but there was, we are going to go into the lore if you're ready for it. La,
LA:
Dr Ellicott, Samson Ellicott,
Berly:
is that a name, Samson or Sanford? No, you're right, Sanford. Sanford said, and then the son was James, right, sure, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Anyway,
LA:
so as we know, his Sanford was doing some unethical things with the patients there. And we also know, I mean, clearly through history, there's been some other unethical experiments happening. And on this website, I think it's psychology degree guide. Online, you can go ahead and get your degree, guys. It says humanity often pays a high price for progress and understanding. At least, that seems to be the case in many famous psychological experiments. So I just figured I'd go over a few, I mean, just so we could kind of know the
Berly:
disturbing real nature
LA:
Sanford ellicott's not the only one, you know. So the first one is one of Sigmund Freud's patients, and I think they did a movie. What was the movie with Michael Fassbender, a dangerous method? Yes,
Berly:
I think it's this Vigo Mortensen and Michael Fassbender and Keira Knightley. So
LA:
she was a 27 year old Emmett Eckstein. Eckstein, and she went to see Sigmund Freud for stomach, Amethyst and slight depression for
Berly:
stomach what? Stomach ailments? Ailments, okay, which, I don't know why you
LA:
would go to a psychologist for that, but she had slight depression too, so Gotcha. But as we know, our minds can cause things to happen in our body too. And she was being treated for hysteria and excessive masturbation. Ooh. I mean, let her, let her get her rocks off. Why not?
Berly:
Who's she hurting? Yeah.
LA:
But at the time, these were two habits that were considered signs of ill mental health. Wait
Berly:
a minute, at the time, couldn't you also go to a doctor, and the doctor would basically finger bang you to give you an orgasm in order to order
LA:
the hysteria? Yeah,
Berly:
she was just doing it herself. Yeah, she didn't have help. She didn't want to have to pay those Doctor fees. They're outlandish.
LA:
But he did some crazy thing. He gave her cocaine, a local anesthetic, and then carterized Her the inside of her nose. Why? It doesn't say was
Berly:
it from all the cocaine use that she messed up her sinuses and he had to do it? Maybe, I don't know. And also, with the cocaine, wasn't cocaine in Coca Cola at the time?
LA:
Yeah, yeah. But it says, here it's he treated her for three years, and we still don't know exactly what his intentions were with her. I think he was just fucking with her. Bingo,
Berly:
there's a lot of spanking. Oh, yeah, that's right. I don't remember who does the spanking. I think it was fast bender. I can't remember who he played, though.
LA:
Oh, and she liked it. Oh, my God, no, I
Berly:
want to watch I got to watch it again. Yeah.
LA:
Another one is Dr Laura bender. She was at Creedmoor Hospital in New York in the 1960s and she is sweet lady subjected a lot of children to lecture shock therapy for what she chose her patients through like an interview process, and she would apply a bit of pressure to the child's head as they sat in a large group, and any child with the pressure that showed, oh, no, I'm sorry, any child who moved with the pressure she felt, they were showing early signs of schizophrenia.
Berly:
Oh, my god, yeah. Like, what? Why would you not move if somebody's applying pressure to your head?
LA:
But that's she was. She believed it was a revolutionary therapy and was going to help with social issues, but she never showed any after she was reported, she never showed any sign of sympathy toward the children, and she had used it on probably 100 children, and one of the youngest was. Three years old. Oh, my god, yeah, sick.
Berly:
Your brain isn't even really developed. Yeah.
LA:
And then this one, I got this one confused with Project MK Ultra. I think it's probably similar. This is operation Midnight Climax, which I like that.
Berly:
I I'll take a good Midnight Climax, anytime. Take on that operation.
LA:
In the 50s, the CIA sponsored Mind Control Research, and this one was dubbed Operation Midnight Climax. And they were studying the effects of LSD on people, but it was non consenting individuals in San Francisco and New York. They lured people from like as far as prostitutes safe houses, and they were just slipped the substance, and then they were monitored behind a one way glass. They did it for over a decade, and it did give them extensive knowledge on top, but topics such as mind altering drugs, surveillance technology and sexual blackmail, yikes. Yeah, but it was shut down in 1965 and then the MK Ultra was in 53 to 73 and that was where our government, they basically, kind of did the same thing, but they were trying to develop Chemical Materials capable of employment and clandestine operations. They gave people unknowing subjects, so like these, people didn't know what they were getting into, and they were given mind altering drugs, sensory deprivation, verbal and sexual abuse, extreme isolation, hypnosis and other forms of torture, damn, yeah. And the most of the subjects they found at universities and in hospitals and prisons. And this was real fucked up, government
Berly:
sponsored, yikes, um, but
LA:
it was finally shut down by Congress. Thanks.
Berly:
Finally, after a decade, though, you said right from 53 to 73 Oh, my god, yeah,
LA:
this one, I don't know. I don't really. I mean, it's kind of a monstrous thing to do, but it's called the monster study, which I thought it was going to be like somebody trying to do, like a Frankenstein. Something or other, you know, like mind control. No, not. I just, I don't know what I thought it, but I just feel like they should have came up with a different name for this. Okay, in in 1939 22 orphans in Iowa became these tests, test subjects of Wendell Johnson and Mary Tudor, they all had well, the study was about stuttering, so some of them had it. Some of them didn't, and they were separated into two groups. Members of one group received positive speech therapy and were consistently praised for their speech and everything. And then the other group received negative speech therapy, which included being belittled for any speech imperfection they happen to make. In the end, the children in the second group who spoke normally before the experiment developed the speech problems and reportedly like retained like these issues for the rest of their lives. Damn, yeah, so Johnson and Tudor never published these results. Real nice, real nice. Sounds real official, guys, right? And so they didn't, because they thought that their study was going to be compared to the human experimenters among the Nazis. Well,
Berly:
if that's a concern of yours, that you're going to be compared to that, maybe you should take a step back and think, should you be doing it in the first place? Yeah, just a tip.
LA:
Okay. And then so I think most people know about the Stanford Prison Experiment. Probably, yes. Did
Berly:
you ever watch the movie? I
LA:
saw some of it, but I didn't finish it. But, man, it looked fucked up. It was good, yeah, well, I
Berly:
shouldn't say good in that sense, but it was accurate. The
LA:
actors did. It looked like the actors did really well, yes, yes, because this one is it says it's probably the most famous human experimentation. It was conducted in August of 71 at Stanford Prison, or no, I'm sorry, at Stanford, where they had 24 male students were randomly assigned roles of either a guard or a prisoner, and then they set up according to their role in a specifically designed model prison, and it was in the basement, but it became, like, it went super fast, like, I think it said, Oh, this one doesn't give the exact days it was on the other link,
Berly:
I want to say it was like a week. I want to say it was,
LA:
it was like, within six days, yeah, shit went crazy. They said, I think on the other article I read, it was like, by day two, shit was already going down. But basically, they took on those roles like crazy, and they be like, the guards began to, like, perform like, harsh measures on the prisoners, like to various degrees of, I was gonna say, sexual psychological torture. Should laugh. It's not fucking funny. But even more surprising was that the prisoners in the experiment simply, they just, like, accepted the abuses like they didn't.
Berly:
Yeah, your volunteers, they could have, they could have decided fuck this yeah and left at any time, but they didn't. Yeah, it was fucked up. But
LA:
the the measures adopted by the guards became so extreme that the experiment, like, was abruptly stopped. Effort, just. Six Days, yeah, that's
Berly:
what I was saying. It's like, I know it like, made it maybe a week, yeah, yeah, that's crazy. It happened very quickly.
LA:
But I mean, also, like, 20 year olds testosterone and shit, you know? Well, just power trip, yeah, you know, yeah. Okay. And one more, I'll tell you, is it little Alfie? No, but I can talk about
Berly:
that one. Okay. No, that was that one just has always stuck with me. I learned about that one in college. And I mean, Little Albert. Albert, is it Albert? I thought it was a little Alfie, for some
LA:
reason, in 1920 John Watson was the founder of John
Berly:
Watson, yeah, Dr John Watson, yeah, from Charlotte, sure. No. He
LA:
was the founder of psychological of the psychological School of behaviorism, believed that, and he believed that behaviors were primarily learned, and he wanted to test this hypothesis, so he used an orphan that they named Little Albert, and he exposed him to a laboratory rat, and it caused no fear response from the boy for several months. Then he switched it to when the child was exposed to the rat, he struck a steel bar with a hammer, scaring the little boy and causing the fear response he was looking for. So by associating the appearance of the rat with a loud noise, Little Albert eventually became afraid of the rat, so he was actually exposed to a variety of sights and sounds, rabbits, monkeys, burning newspaper masks. And that's when the second phase they used the white rat with the sound. Finally, he was scared of anything fluffy or white or like small animal like so what Watson's hypothesis that fear could be conditioned was proved right, but he fucked this little kid up for his life, right? So, wow, not. I mean, good job, but not good job.
Berly:
Oh, my God, they never fixed it. Well,
LA:
at least it doesn't say so in this article. And I know there were a bunch, I mean, I kind of want to go through and read all the articles because, I mean, it's interesting, but also really fucking tragic
Berly:
it is we learned a lot about human psychology in the early days, but yeah, well, like it says ethic to the non existent detriment of humans and animals. That quote yeah at the beginning, yeah, yeah. So, ooh, that's that. To close it out, we have a quote from the show that LA actually said at the same time as one of the characters. And it really made me start to question if she wrote the show or not. I did. So Dean looked at Sam, who was holding the shotgun, and he says, What are you going to do? Sam, guns filled with rock salt, not going to kill me. And
LA:
then he shoots him, and he flies through the door and on the ground, he says, Sam says, No, but it'll hurt like hell. Yeah.
Berly:
Cheers.
LA:
I just remember, in the Kill Bill, the second one you remember, he busts open the door of the trailer and shoots her with the rock salt. Yes, hits her, and she's like, I was like, damn, because, and at the time I didn't I was like, what? I didn't realize that it was rock salt. But then I looked it up later, and I was like, Oh. Like, think about it, like in the blast in general, but then the salt in the wound,
Unknown:
in the wound. Oh,
LA:
she was a tough bitch, though.
Berly:
So is that. Dane Winchester, it's true. Thank you for listening to denim wrapped nightmares. Follow
LA:
us on Twitter or Instagram, leave a review and let us know how we can get involved in the fandom. This
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