Men’s Mental Health: How Did We Get Here? | A 5-Man Panel on Pressure, Silence, and Healing

On this powerful episode of the Stories to Create Podcast, Cornell Bunting brings together six men for an honest, unfiltered conversation about one of the most important and overlooked topics today—men’s mental health.

Featuring Bernard Faithful, Ronald Marshall, Drew Brown, Jephte Forges, Dr. Duane Cumberbatch, and Cornell Bunting, this panel dives deep into the realities that many men face but rarely speak about.

From childhood expectations and emotional suppression to pressure, relationships, fatherhood, and healing, this conversation explores the question: How did we get here?

This is not a surface-level discussion. These are real experiences, real struggles, and real perspectives from men who choose to speak up rather than stay silent.

Whether you are a man navigating your own journey or someone seeking to understand the men in your life better, this episode offers insight, truth, and the beginning of healing conversations.

At EHAS Inc., we believe that sharing stories creates connection, and connection creates change. This episode is a reminder that no one has to carry their story alone.

🎧 Tune in, reflect, and be part of a conversation that has the power to change lives.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Yes, yes. Welcome to another episode of Stories to Create podcast. Right here at ES Club. I'm your host, Cornell Bunting. Today, my co-host, as you guys know, me been on the show before. Actually, co-host the show before Bernard Faithful. Yeah. In the building. This is beautiful. Listen, today edition though, is a little different. Mental health. Who they say? It's under what do you call the that word I'm looking for? It's on the prospect or the aspect or the I can't think of the word, but hey, we're gonna find that word. But listen, the question is, how did we get here? And so on the panel today, we have my brother Ronald Marshall. Yes. Yep. This is good. We have my new brother right here. It's a beautiful did you bring the book? I didn't bring the book, but my name's Ethan Campbell. I'm an author of the book. Yeah. Ethan Campbell. Yeah. And then, of course, we have Jeff Tay Ford.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Forges.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Forges. This is good. All right. I love it. I love it. Listen. And of course, guys, we got some questions. We got some questions that were thrown at us. And then we got some questions from the ladies. So we're going to hear from these guys. Their take on what that looked like. It was supposed to be six of us, but one of the guys said he had like a like a stomach bug going on. So I told him, hang out. Whatever the stomach bug looks like. You know, we're going to work that out. We'll talk later on that. So it's a beautiful thing. This is good. So I'm excited, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

So the people that's supposed to be in the room, they're in the room. They're in the room, yeah. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

That's it. Listen, guys.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Listen to that man out there with the stomach bug. Yeah, but this is an opportunity for the people that's in the room. Yeah. Take advantage of it. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Listen. And welcome to the show, guys. Thank you, brother. Thank you. And uh for our listeners, you know, we normally take them on a little tail. You know, a little journey on where you guys were born, grew up, all that stuff. We're not gonna really do all that today. Because we got a lot to cover today. And so, me and Bernard, we're gonna take turns. Of course, we're gonna give our input as well. But we don't want you to drag out what you're talking about too much. We just we get right to the punch. Let's just yeah, just boom. Hit it right in there. So listen, guys, I got you guys, okay? I told you guys all the time. I got you guys, and so first question. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hey, that was not script either. That was not script either. Listen, people listen to people who they like and coming from, right? Yes, yes. So I think that we need to get these young men. Yes. Yeah, young men to go ahead and give some type of summary of who you are, where you come from, things like that. I love that. Then the audience be like, all right, I I I I I'm attracted to that person, yeah, his personality, where you came from, things like that. All right. There you go. You know me, man.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Hey, you see what you see why he's a co-host? This is not my thing. You see why he's a co-host? It's a beautiful thing. No, I love that. I love that. So you guys are I you guys know too much about me already. So we're gonna start with Ronald over here.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Just reintroduce yourself and uh Ronald Marshall from New Orleans, Louisiana. I made Candles, aka the Candle Man. I'm a personal trainer as well. I love life. I love men. I love like I like connecting with men, and I like it to where we can begin to really connect and build and grow. And this is this is right here, it's like my safe space when it comes down to men. Building. Right? When men come together and do what men do and build and grow and just develop one another. Oh, that's very sharp design, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

But we're not gonna skip Rhonda. I I know you, I've seen you around. Like, come on, bro. You just skipped a lot of stuff. We want the audience to come and be like, that's my favorite character. Then we'll kill you off later, right? Then we get more ratings. But come on, man. You put yourself out there just a little bit for the audience, a little bit more. I know you do a lot of things in the community. You just said you the candleman. Yeah. That I mean, everybody knows you as that. How do you market yourself? You know, all that good stuff if that if you're able to Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

No, no, without a doubt. I didn't want to make it too long, but well, I mean, I mean, I love God. Number one, that's God is first and foremost in my life and everything that I do. I'm always gonna honor God and everything that I do. I'm a mind minister, I'm a minister, I'm a I have it in the church. I again I'm a candle, I'm a candleman. I I make I love making candles. I it's a massage oil candle, a candle that melts down into an oil. You can put it over your whole body. I do personal training as well. I love training people. That's my passion. This is one of my clients right here. This is true. You know, we meet four times a week. Yep, yeah. Uh what else? I was in the military for 10 years as well. Army. So I was in the army for 10 years, learned a lot about myself and how to develop. I suffer from PTSD, and I really harness it down on the aspect of becoming a better man mentally, because a lot of times we battle different things that go on in our minds. And I believe that God gave me a candle business to really light a fire under me to understand who I really am within me because it humbled me in such a way that I went from the war zone to making candles. And people look at that concept and like, how did you go from the army to now making candles? Right. Right? Such a sensitive direction in such a way that women like more than anything versus men. And to see a man do that is a intriguing thing that people look at, and I and I love it because it really allows me to get closer to God because God is that light. Beautiful. By God, God showed me that I'm that light, and the only way to really uh get his interest or pique him to look at me is by helping others light their fire.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Beautiful. I love that. I love that. I like that. All right, young man, what's going on over in your world? My name's Ethan.

SPEAKER_08 6:57

I mean, I think I'm the old man of the crew. I'm picking on you. Okay. I do appreciate the young man accolades. I'm actually an author of a book called Is Chivalry Dead? Yeah. I'm a farm boy from Oregon, but I've been around quite a bit. And at this point, what I really love is supporting men. That might sound very strange, but like Ronald said, this is my safe place. This is the modern day campfire, so to speak. Got together and actually spoke to each other.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 7:27

My I only have one message for men. It's really simple, and that is men, you are important. And being important, you most likely have a divine purpose set by God.

SPEAKER_06 7:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 7:38

And to that end, you should be as strong as you can be, mind, body, and spirit to fulfill that purpose. And so I'm very fortunate to be here today. Jeff called me up and said, be someplace at nine o'clock. I had no idea where I was headed. But luckily I shaved and I'm I'm very happy to be here. This is good. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

I want to call you Dr. Ethan. Are you a doctor? I am not a doctor. I am not a doctor.

SPEAKER_08 8:02

If anything, I'm a doctor of hard knocks. But other than that, I think I'm in good company here. So you said that.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

All right. Jeff Tay? Well, my name is Jeff Tay, originally from Haiti. Lived in Naples most of my life. My background really is pretty much human resources. I've dealt with a lot of seniors. And one of my favorite aspects of working and senior living and dealing with seniors is I got a chance to really engage with a lot of the older men from the past generation. And I've learned a lot from them and how they actually contributed towards the infrastructure of the whole entire nation, if not the world, really. Right. Right. And the biggest difference between then and now that I've realized is that men from that era, they typically just kind of hold everything in. There was a different level of respect for them and for themselves. And men now, they're just there is no purpose. Right. And look, look, subjectively speaking, yeah. Okay. Now, I will say my my ultimate mission, my main reason for being here is to actually gather.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

Getting together with you all guys and talk about mental health.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Beautiful. I love that. Love that. Sir Bernard. Yeah. Give them another little teaser, man, of you know, what's going on in Bernard's world right now.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Well, we we got some things going on, man. This is not the first and this is not going to be the last man thing that we have going on in this community. It is much, much needed. Yeah. If you look at the statistics and the facts of what's going on in America, just in America, man, we're losing.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Oh, yeah. We're losing big time. Huge. And if you break it down by ethnicity and things like that, those numbers are very alarming. So we I will pub this. I do have a men's conference coming up. It is invite only. I say it's going to be suited and booted. Yes. So everybody talk about how I dress. I want you to be more, I want you to be 10 times more than that. I want everybody to be flashy. And I want to be able to capture those moments of the great men that are in the room.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

And also open up a platform just like we're doing right now today.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Definitely. Definitely. This is this is beautiful. Listen, so I'm really excited, man, to dive into a lot of what this looks like. And I gotta say, we are losing so big that when you put top 20 holidays up, and if you was to take a guess, where does Father's Day sit on the top 20 most celebrated holidays? Where do you think Father's Day sit on the top 20? Take a guess.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

That's right. I don't even think it's on the list.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Where is it? I'd say uh what number five? Number five. Yeah. Oh, you oh I'm being optimistic.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

I'm just gonna say that the country doesn't make money on Father's Day.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

It does not make it. Look, look, that's the time to have steak.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

I'll tell you that, man. Some of the potato, best time to have listen.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

When I saw where Father's Day sit, I was disappointed. Father's Day sit at number 18. Wow. Number 18, Mother's Day. Sit at number two, right behind Christmas Day. Halloween sits at number six. Means we celebrate spirits over the guys. Like, come on, devils. Come on, man. Right. That's terrible. That is terrible. So we are we are losing big time, bruh. We're losing big time. So definitely want to dive into some of these questions. Our listeners definitely want to hear what you guys have to say on what these what you guys take is on that. You know, so don't think of no wrong or right answers when it comes to these. You know, it's your take. You know, everyone respect everyone and know how I talk. Yeah, just say that's it. That's it. I just can't put yes down the board.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Right. But no, this just showed us exactly. This just showed us exactly, exactly what men go through. Just that, because I I paid attention to it, right? Just exactly what you guys just did. We're suffering silently, and it's good. Yeah. We're good with that. Right. It's it's the norm. Yeah. You know, we Jeff I just said, the whole world, like, we don't want the world to know that we're dealing with this, right? Right. Because we feel that, and it may just be me. I don't know. We feel that nobody really cares about what we're going through. You gotta still wake up, right? You gotta still go to work. Yeah, you better still put food on the table. Yeah, you better still take care of those kids, the wife, the girlfriend, whatever you have. Because nobody's asking you how you're doing. Right. I asked Jeffrey, how you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Like, well, I know, I know Cornell done filled you in. And I said, Listen, I'm gonna ask you, How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I'm gonna call that situation.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

And you gotta tell, bro, that's one of the things you know about me. When we talk about stuff, bruh, we we talked about it. Yeah, it's not of all these other people, you know what I'm saying? So that's it. So let's jump into this. Cause I don't even know if we're gonna have a whole lot of time to cover this whole thing. So, what is one moment in your life where you realize your mental health needs attention? Who wanna take a first stab at it? I'll answer that one.

SPEAKER_08 13:53

Yeah, I'll answer that one. And I I think it's something that a lot of men go through, especially like I said, I'm I'm 59, so I'm probably one of the older guys in the in the group. And that's when you kind of get phased out of your career. Right. It's not a big conspiracy theory, it's just something that happens naturally. Yeah. You know, you can certainly say D E I or those other acronyms, but I I think it is something that's more natural in terms of getting phased out. And Ronald was talking earlier about how, you know, he has his own thing, you know, and you're building your own thing. Right. You know, it's really important to have that purpose because when everything is aligned underneath the security of I'm gonna show up, get a paycheck, this is who I am, I'm a respectable m member of the community, right? And then all of a sudden it's no longer there. Right. You know, your whole world kind of collapses around you, and and you're trying to put the pieces back together, but it's almost to put the pieces back together because that's such a foundational part of the whole puzzle. So I knew when I walked into a dollar store listening to Phil Collins, I don't care anymore, and literally vacillating from crying to wanting to pummel the little lady that was right next to me, and it took me three times listening to that song before I walked out and walked out naturally, like, oh, I didn't even think about it. I finally just walked out, and I thought something's gotta give. And so we were doing family therapy at the time, and I called the gentleman up, he's like my father figure, and we talked, and about a week later, it's like you need to tap out.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah, beautiful. You know, I gotta say, for me, man, I I had gotten to age 40, 46 right now. But I neglect, well, I'm not gonna say neglect. I I kinda swept a lot of what I was going on under the rug because of what had happened. I went to jail, lost all this money, all these different things, but I was making it look like I was dealing with it. Very good. But when I hit 40, bruv, there was a few things that happened that was like, listen, man, you you gotta acknowledge this. If you don't acknowledge this, you're in trouble. Yeah, you can't outload yourself. Oh, yeah, you can't. You can. And uh, you know, I mean, I died, bruh.

SPEAKER_08 16:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

I I died, left my body for 16 minutes. So it's serious business. You know, it's it's very serious when you understand what is going on and you acknowledge it. I'm gonna leave it right there for right now.

SPEAKER_08 16:21

Well, when if if I may interject, yeah. I think it's so serious. It's it's either for a lot of the guys, it's you know, I say most of the warriors are in jail. They're either, you know, the end game is, you know, sickness, death, drug abuse, jail, institutions. I mean, it it is serious. Yeah, very serious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

You want to go to the next question?

SPEAKER_08 16:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

I want to kind of ask a question right quick. When I first found out, it was a day I was in a I was in the army and I was dealing with one of my soldiers one day, and there was this emotional feeling that came up on me that I just wanted to cry. Oh, yeah. Right? And I couldn't figure out where it was coming from. Yeah. And that was my first episode of trying to understand like this this struggle of I I got something wrong with me. Something something something's going on that's not normal for me, because I'm I'm training my soldiers, I'm I'm dealing with my soldiers from day to day. I'm I'm being a man. Right. Right? I'm I'm being hard, I'm being strong, I'm taking, I'm I'm being a leader, but then this emotional feeling comes on me and I don't know where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

So that's when I started seeking our help to understand what is this. Yeah. And that's when the doctors started telling me this is what's going on. Right. And your body's remembering what took place in that traumatic experience. Yeah. And now it's coming up randomly from time to time. It's not something that it's not even something that triggers it. It just comes. It does come, yeah. So it's something that when that started happening, that's when I started dealing with it and then started realizing, hey, I I need to go see a therapist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

You know what I mean? Because a lot of times when things are going on with us as men, yeah, we try to hide it. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. We don't and we don't ever think that we actually need the help. Right. We think I'm strong. I got this. Yeah. I've been making it happen. Yeah. Right. But then this moment comes and you like, okay, I don't know what this is. So how do I really deal with it? You know what I mean? And that literally comes from just seeking out to others to really understand because there's somebody else that understands really what you what you're really going on.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

No, we just throw this away. All you need to ask one men, one question.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

They feel safe in the location. Yeah. They feel positive about the people that they're discussing with. Bro, men, men could talk. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. We go at it. You know what I'm saying? So if you got a woman out there and she like, oh, he's not expressing himself, he's not emotional. He don't feel this is not a safe environment for him. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

So if you ask a man one of these questions, we can have the whole thing. We don't even gotta ask no more questions. We go in at it. So go ahead, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Actually, one of the safest environments for me is the gym. And believe it or not, for most guys, they hate leg day. Okay. Leg day is like, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I'm gonna cut you off though, because it's it's too many naked people in the gym.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

That's a good temptation. Yeah, do you know what? I love it too, but I'll be I'll be talking about it.

SPEAKER_08 19:25

Be careful about talking about leg day, all right? It's motivation too.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

It's motivation too. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Um, but you know, I always had this theory where if, you know, if if your problems, if the world gets heavy, just go and squat it, right? Okay. Go and do your leg press or do your heavy squats or whatever. It's a great example, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:47

It works every muscle in the body. Every single thing. It makes you think about nothing else but squats. But squats.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

And I started noticing trapped emotions literally coming out of me. Like there are times where I would literally work out and I don't even know what's going on with me. I would just go all in, do the heaviest five to eight reps I could possibly do. And then all of a sudden I start tearing up. And then I just like, okay, I got three more in me. Let me just keep going. It's not, it's not physical pain, but it's definitely something that was trapped deep inside. Yeah. And at that point, I'm like, this is my therapy. This is, this is, this is where I'm at. This is what I need. But I find that it's always nice. It's always better to actually go and see a professional.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

See, no, I want to hear your answer to number two question.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

All right. I'm gonna say something real quick. So Michael Beasley, he's uh basketball player, former basketball NBA player. He talks about that. He talks about him playing basketball, and that's his therapy. Yeah. And they asked him, when do you cry? He said, When I'm on the court and I'm playing. You guys don't know because I'm sweating. Yeah. And if you actually pay attention to, he did a one-on-one with another NBA player, former NBA player, and you can tell that he was very emotional, you know. So that makes a lot of sense. Then back to you, Ronald, as you described just being in the military and basically going through these emotions, and you're talking about you just felt the emotion of wanting to cry. And that goes to our next question. Growing up as a kid, what were some things that you were taught that basically was saying that, you know, this is a man expressing his emotions. This is how you're supposed to be, this is how you're not supposed to be, this is what you should and should not do. And what I got from you when you said that, what we all have been taught is that men don't cry.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Right, right. Or suck it up. Yeah. Be a man. Be a man. Don't cry. Yeah. Right. Those three words, right? Those three phrases. Suck it up, be a man, don't cry. Right. Men are not supposed to cry. Like, as a child, that's what has been told because now you got to go out into the street. Right? And you got to go out into the real world. And into the real world, as a man, you're not supposed to cry. Right. Because if you show emotions and you start crying, that's a weakness. And weakness is not associated, quote unquote, with a man. Because a man is always supposed to be strong. A man is always supposed to have an answer. A man is always supposed to have a solution to whatever's taking place. And as soon as he does not, now he's not a man.

SPEAKER_08 24:00

Can I take it one step further, too? Also, if you're in a relationship that's not very healthy, all those words are used against you as a form of allowing abusive, whether psychological. Verbal or even physical to happen. And now that man don't say you're not banned enough, you're not fan enough. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

And that, you know, say another lyric to it then. Now, now you start to really shut down. You're already afraid to show emotion. You thought a person that you are part of can true, you can trust, you can't express a little bit, they turn around and use it against you. Now you really lock up. Now you really like, hey, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna show people. Oh shoot.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

What if we take it a little bit further? Let's let's say, not not not just a woman. Or is one thing to just deal with what you're dealing with. Another thing to deal with with a woman, but step further, deal with it with a man.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Right? Now I go to another man and I'm vulnerable with this man because I'm thinking this man is my friend and my brother, right? He's he he he we like we we dare for one another. But then I go to him and I be vulnerable and I tell him all about my issues, what's going on with me. Yeah. But what I need help with, and now that man turns on me. You know what I mean? Now that's now that that mental capacity of that man to now go to another man to now be vulnerable to try to figure out I need help. I really want to say I need help. But you can't say it because now when I went to a man and the man turned his back on me when I was vulnerable, right? How do I really ask for help now?

SPEAKER_08 25:30

But let me take it one other step.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

Hold on for a minute.

SPEAKER_08 25:34

Hold on for a minute.

SPEAKER_07 25:35

Sorry, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

So listen, guys, I know some of you guys wanted to call in on my phone. I did put Do Not Disturb on my phone, but you can call 313-247-8878. If you want to call into the show, we'll put you on speaker. You can ask your question. We're gonna get it done. But one of the things I wanted to touch on with what you were just saying is a lot of times most men are not as developed in the in the headspace. And when you're not as developed in the headspace, you can't really give people good information, bruv. Like, and so sometimes when you talk to some of those people that are not as developed or not as mature, you put yourself in a situation where you could be compromised because they don't necessarily know how to use that, or when is the right time to use that, you know, or even if they're supposed to, right? They don't understand how to measure that, or don't know don't really know how to measure that. So I just want to put that out there. One of the things I do is when it comes to guys that I communicate certain things with, I gotta have some type of level of understanding where their perception is.

SPEAKER_08 26:53

Right. Meet them where they're at.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

You have to, because if you don't, you know, it's it's like having a conversation with guys that you're telling them your dream. Yeah. And they're like, bruh, you sound crazy. That that's not gonna make no sense. Like you can't do that. You're killing your dream because you're telling someone that's they don't have the capacity to say what is what you're saying. Right, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

But and then it goes to because everything you're saying is correct. Yeah. It goes to now, nowadays, and we talked about this before. Right. The the the drug dealers, the alcoholics that was on the corner when we was growing up, all the people that they they looked, the world looked at as bad people, right? Some of us kind of gravitated towards those individuals because they did have wisdom, knowledge, and things like that, right? Even though they they were in putting themselves in bad situations.

SPEAKER_06 27:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

But what I say now, because I be so eager to have a uh find a mentor, to find someone that I can be like, yo, that's that's a good leader. That's but there's no real leaders. To me, right, there's no real leaders anymore. Nobody's stepping up and saying, I'm a mentor. Yeah. I I I will be able to give you that advice. I think even the older people, they they come down to that level, and they even more immature than what you are at your level.

SPEAKER_08 28:17

And it's frustrating. And that's a point I wanted to make with what Ronald was saying is you do get to a point, and that's why I point out I'm I'm a little bit older. But I think you guys are, I mean, I I looked up to all of you guys, especially Jeff D here, seriously. Yeah. Because even in a short conversation, I could just tell that he was so mature. But my point is this is that then you get to that point where you realize, okay, now I have to take the reins. Right. You know, I have to be that guy that does the show or be the guy that is motivational or you know, those things, because now it's like, okay, the torch has been passed. Right. And it's just the men to grab that torch and say, okay, I can see the forest for the trees now. Let me help these guys come up. Let me see their pain without judging them. Let me, you know, talk about my own, you know, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely that other side.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Definitely, definitely. You know, actually, Bernard, if you touch on one of those questions and break into silence, just touch on any one of them. What you mean? Any of them, either eight, nine, or ten.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Oh, okay, I got you. Why do you think men struggle to talk about mental health openly? Openly. It's not safe.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

I think that's hey, that's the perfect answer right there. What'd you say?

SPEAKER_08 29:39

It's not safe.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

I mean, I also have my own my own input on that because oftentimes men communicate their mental health, their struggles in a more aggressive manner. And women cannot receive that, right? In the same sense that men oftentimes we kind of have to be a container for the female energy and the emotion. Women don't know how to handle that. And so for us to even bring up these issues of that that men are going through, right? It's immediately perceived as, you know, patriarchy, you know, just being a part of the patriarchy and and wanting control and us having some type of a privilege over women, and how it's it's all about uh, like you said, just not feeling safe. Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

So so with you saying that, we're gonna throw out the first question from the woman, because we got five questions from the woman, and the first one is what do you wish women should understand better about men and their mental health? I would the first thing I would say, listen.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Ah that's what I had if I had if I had if I if I really had to really, really, really, really, really, I mean, I believe that as a man, yeah, it probably would have to have to come from another woman, because I don't think women just really listen to men. But listen, women don't listen to men.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

Like, I mean, like, they they they they they they hear us, we're not gonna have people coming at us. But they don't listen to, I mean, can you break down the difference though?

SPEAKER_04 31:31

So what I mean by this, so what I mean by this, right? They hear the words, yeah, but I don't think they hear our emotional aspect behind the words itself that is actually happening. They think we're just saying words. Yeah. And in their mind, they're saying, well, he's a man. He should be strong enough. He can deal with this. This is what they're saying in their mind while we're telling them, hey, look, I'm dealing with a a mental issue here, and I really need you to really listen at what I'm going through. Yeah. Because this is the reason why I'm reacting this way. Right. Because this is what I went through in the past, and it's the trigger to me. So instead of listening to my triggers, you're listening, you're looking, you, you, you, you, you, you're, you're going based off the experience of what I did. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_05 32:14

Versus understanding why I did it. That's that's right. Right. Yeah. I think that's what it is.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

They hear the words, yeah, but I don't think they feel the emotional concept behind what actually took place.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

So you you touch on something there that and I'm telling you, that's a whole kind of worm right there. Because women, they function on how you behave with them. Right. They don't they don't care about what's going on with you. Right. Then if you're doing this, why are you doing that?

SPEAKER_05 32:48

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

Man, so we're not here to badge women, not a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

But the biggest thing I always wanted is just just for for a woman to just just just really just listen to what it is that I'm saying.

SPEAKER_08 33:06

But Ronald, let me let me give you the flip side of that point, okay? Yeah. I I do a lot of street work, all right? And that's how I actually met Jafty, you know. And really, I checked in to make sure you're okay, if I remember right, right?

SPEAKER_06 33:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 33:18

Are you all right? And the point that I make is that it's not up to a woman to go up to a two or three hound, two or three hundred-pound man that's been upset or really mad for maybe a decade or two. Men are scary. Right. You know, it's up to us men to do that. Yeah. You know, but men have to get to a point where they're gonna take that accountability and responsibility in the community of men. Right. You know, I mean, you're you're no slouch, you know what I mean? So it's like if you're upset and you're animated, it's like, holy smokes, you know. But I remember talking to guys where it's like, Ethan, if I talk to you like this in front of the lawyers, the counselors, the judge, they all say I'm abusive.

SPEAKER_06 33:54

Right, right.

SPEAKER_08 33:55

But men hear that as a cry, you know, they don't hear the aggression.

SPEAKER_06 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 33:59

But so I think, yes, it's good that the ladies hear us, but to a certain extent, it's not their ultimate responsibility. Men need to take counsel from men, and men need to be available to each other for that counsel. And a lot of that's been completely broke with the dissolution of homes and you know, lack of fathers and other institutions to have men around.

SPEAKER_04 34:23

Without a doubt. But when you look at the factors of, because I I guess I I I do, because that's the reason why I like being in a circle of men, right? Because I believe, again, iron sharpens iron. As we begin to discuss about what we go through as men, we help each other look deeper into what we ourselves are going through to be able to help us heal, to be better men for that woman, for that kid, for that community, right? But that's how we begin to build and develop and growth. Women can't do that for us, right? Women can can nurture, they can love us, but we can understand. Right, right. Right. But a lot of the times, what what I mean by they don't listen to us is that when we're trying to explain to them what it is that we ourselves are going through, they don't get it entirely because they are probably looking at it in a different light. You know what I mean? Because I they have this book that said men see blue, right? Women see pink.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Right, right. So, and I don't want the woman to feel like we've ganged up on the I'm gonna tell you guys right now what's what is exactly gonna happen. I'm gonna get some call from some woman, and they're like, I'm gonna just let you know you're being terrible. For you, you had these guys attack us, and we weren't there to defend ourselves. So, Bernard, from the woman, the second question, the second question that is on that on the on the back page. Uh, what's the second question from struggling?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

What is the best way a woman can support you?

SPEAKER_03 35:49

I'll answer that if he wants to leave, let him leave. Okay, right. Especially in the heat of the argument. Yes. Oftentimes he just needs to think. Yes, because when there's so much emotions involved, right? You you want to be able to clear your mind. Yes. Otherwise, it's just gonna be uh like a feedback loop of nonstop.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Stick a pin because I I want you to touch more. But this is so important for you guys to hear that. It is okay for you to let that man leave. It is okay. Let him go blow some steam off for an hour, two hours, or whatever. And don't think that he's gonna go go see another woman. Because they they get like that. They're like, that's why I don't want you to leave. But right, right. That's that's that's a good that's a good point right there to touch, man. But you say struggle. What kind of struggle though?

SPEAKER_04 36:48

That's the thing. Because you can say in an argument with a woman, or I can say financial struggle, right? That I'm not really disclosing to my woman at the time.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about financially, let's talk about struggling with the man's responsibilities. The mare, the typical man responsibilities. You're supposed to pay bills, you're supposed to have a job all the time.

SPEAKER_08 37:12

I think I'm on the wrong show.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

You say, is that the responsibility? You gotta be there for the wife emotionally, the kids emotionally, yeah. The responsibilities that the world kind of put on us. Right. You're struggling in that department. Rather, you don't have the job that's paying the bill, rather you do have to go 50-50, rather, you do have to split the bills, things like that. Rather, you you don't have time to to really you know have childbearing qualities and things like that. So I guess let's let's discuss that. Does that break it down? Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

I mean, you mean you when you look at the factors of what a man is struggling with mentally, if he can't meet the responsibilities, quote unquote, of what the world says that the responsibilities of a man is, right? Yes. So now that man is trying to go from day to day, trying to meet those needs because the society said that this is what a man is responsible for. So now the man is trying to live up to what society says that the man is trying to live up. The first thing back in the past was what? Working out, right? So it was about about a man being strong, about looking strong, and that's what that's what a that's what a real man looks like. But not not always typically. That was always the men, that was always a lot weaker, if I'm being honest, right? They looked strong, but they was a lot weaker because of what they was going through mentally, right? So when we talk about the the financial struggles, now I gotta go home, I gotta go tell my wife, I gotta tell my kids, I can't buy this, I can't do this, I can't pay for this bill, right? So now mentally, as a man, if he doesn't, I don't feel like a man. If I'm gonna speak for me, I don't I won't feel like the man that I need to be to be responsible to now give my kids, to give my woman what she wants or even needs, right? Or what I actually want to give to her because it's something I want to give to my woman every day that I come home. And if I can't do that financially, I don't feel it's kind of an incurable question in all in a way.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Right. Well, now let's carry that on. They got that, but now carry it on with the women. Like, all right, your woman understands that you are in this situation, right? How can she help you in that situation? You got all this stuff bearing down on you. How can your woman Okay?

SPEAKER_08 39:36

That's true. Yeah, that is true. You know what I mean? If your woman, if you have a woman or if you don't have a woman, it's shocking how little affirmation it takes. Yeah. Men don't need a men don't need a lot.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

We don't need a whole lot. All I need is all that man needs that woman to speak some powerful, positive affirmations into his life. And then if she can get in alignment just a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah. So when you come in the door, you've been, you've been, you've been out there trying to find a job or doing a job that you never imagined you could do, and you go home, you you feel like arguing, and you feel like cleaning a house, and you feel like doing like that's what you're talking about, right? You want to argue with them every time they come, you want to fight with the kids? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 40:18

I don't want to fight with the kids. What I mean is having a woman give a man positive, powerful affirmation. So meaning, and when that man comes home, instead of saying, hey, did you do this? Hey, you do that, instead of getting into an argument, that woman greeting that man with something powerful. Hey, how you doing, sweetheart? How you doing, King? How was your day? I know, right? So, how you doing, King? Right? How how was your day? You can I can I get you some water, can I get you some coffee? Do you want to drink? Uh can I rub your feet, right? So that that woman greeting that man in such a way it will make that man feel much more stronger, much more powerful, and inspired to go out there and really make money. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

I like that. It's you know, I would say again, for me, it goes back on how you've developed it, how your mindset is developing, how you function. I function a very strange way, and uh, people would say I've I just put it out there. So for me, there is certain times when I shut down and my woman need to understand that I've shut down, you don't add to whatever is going on. I'm in, I'm in, I'm in the I'm in the chill phase right now. So you anything else you're gonna do is gonna be too extra. But we talk about all that stuff. I I'm a communicator, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

So I'm gonna tell you this is how I'm functioning. If we're having conversation and you see me shut down, just let it be. Right. Because we've and for me, bruv, I have this happy bubble that I like my happy bubble. And the minute it looks like it's getting poke, we done.

SPEAKER_08 41:57

Yeah, conversation is done. But but I think that is a important distinction, too. Yeah. A lot of men, myself included, do shut down. It's almost like a psychological hibernation period.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 42:09

And and I think that's okay too, because I think we're just protecting ourselves as well.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

You have to.

SPEAKER_08 42:14

I think we know that at times we have to be patient, we have to let time mature. Right. You know, certain things can't, you know. So that's a real important point, I think, that gets overlooked a lot.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

So I Well, I'm gonna challenge you guys though. Yeah. I'm gonna challenge you. Because you all said this. You said let them walk out, you said shut down. And this is why the women, hey, hey girls, hey ladies. Yeah, this is why the women do certain things that they do. They start, you you walk out, yeah, they have to take on the responsibilities not only of you, but of yours, but theirs also. They have to continue the process when you're supposed to be there to take the load off a little bit. You shut down, now they're confused, or they're they, you know, they have these thoughts in their heads, and it's always constantly, they don't know what's going on instead of communicating, right? So these things are typical things as we all said, we do. I I'm gonna go take a nap. If I'm stressed out and I'm losing that day, let me go ahead and go home, take a nap, wake up, and start all over again. But I have to go home, relax, chill, shut down, basically, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

I have to do that, but when you're in relationships, we have to understand that these these things become problems. It's not really necessarily helping you, right? Because you now you are a part of someone else, right? And when you do those things, it's not helping that that communication, that relationship. Right. So I challenge you guys to try a different avenue, especially when you're with someone. Right. Because think about it, right? And it took me a while. I'm not like I'm I'm all good. I've always been like this, but it took me a while to over-communicate. Right? Yeah, I want to shut down, but let me tell you what's going on, how how I'm feeling, yeah, the steps that I need to take, and let's have that communication, right? Let me know, let me let you know where I'm at right now. So if I leave, all this stuff not running in your head. He with another one. He is doing this, he uh and then all you did was just sat in your car and smoke the cigarette. I don't smoke anything, but you just sat in your car and you just chilled out.

SPEAKER_06 44:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

But all this stuff, imagine you you don't, your girl don't went out, your girlfriend, your wife, whatever done went out with the on a girl's trip, and you at home, like wonder what she's doing. Whatever she's talking to. Yeah, lady ain't doing nothing. Yeah, but you don't know that because you haven't communicated that, you haven't gained that trust, things like that. Doesn't make sense. Yes, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

I'm actually I'm actually on on your side with this. Overcommunicating sometimes can be a good thing, but also it can be a bad thing. It's a double-edged sword. Shutting down in what sense do you mean shutting down in a sense of needing to just completely de-escalate before you start taking on certain tasks, or are we talking about emotionally shut down?

SPEAKER_02 45:14

So for me, and you guys gotta remember, I got a whole different condition and situation. So I died for a lot of and most of you guys know this. I have I have situations. So one of the things is I can never put myself in a situation where my blood pressure gets up there. So these are things I communicate with a woman that lives with me.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

And so when we're in a situation where you for whatever reason, you need some answers for something. I can answer, but if I have a long day, you getting the bare minimum. Yeah, you get in the bare minimum, and then once I hit that, where my needle says, Okay, that's it, then I'm done. All right. That's that's really what I'm saying. So when when for me, when I shut down, is literally not to move the needle to where I'm gonna be compromised, health wise.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Yeah, I I agree with you. Yeah, I always find that it's it's it's always a great idea. To at least communicate that. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Hey, you know, it's it's it's been a it's it's been a really long day. For me, when I go home, I'll probably turn on the PS5 or something like that, maybe for an hour or two, whatever. And then I'm available. If not, I have some other projects I'll probably take on. Right. But I'm very communicative with the women in my life. Right. And so it's funny, opposites attract, right? I find myself attracting the complete opposites of me. Yeah. Where I like to communicate. Yeah. I like to communicate, and the reception isn't well received, or they shut down themselves. Yeah. So I have to back off. And then so that communication doesn't come from them as to what they need for me to help them feel safe, right? So it's it's a lot of these like not communicating, and it goes both ways. Right. If that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

But do you say it's a double-edged sword because the people that you're trying to overcommunicate with, they're not receptive? Yes. Or are you saying that over-communication is just it's a good and a bad thing?

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Because over over time, what happens, what I've my own personal experience is people get used to it. And whenever you're having like a bad day or just a normal day where you just don't feel like overly communicating, it gets perceived as like you being very terse, very Spartan-like. Right.

SPEAKER_08 47:56

You being very it's And And the reason why, if you don't mind, I'm gonna jump in here. I'm old school shut down. Yeah. I'm I'm shut down for years, if not decades. You know, I'm out, yeah, you know, because I need to save this and I need to save everything. Right, right. Shut down. Yeah. And and there is a there is a and the reason why I'm so blunt about it is because there is a protection mechanism behind it. Oh, yeah. You know, if you're in an abusive situation, sometimes you gotta shut it down. Yeah, yeah. So I and and that's what I was always impressed about. You and I told you that one of the first times we spoke was how eloquent you are in terms of how you speak and and in terms of being in touch with a lot of things. But I gotta say, I'm polar opposite. I'm I'm trying to get to your end, but I also understand your pain of overcommunicating because sometimes you just gotta put some markers in the sand. Yeah, you know, especially for the ladies to follow, because yeah, yeah, you know, at the end of the day, we still gotta lead it, whether we're in, you know.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

So what I want to touch on, you know, and I want to make sure I'm doing all you guys that are watching, listening justice on, you know, addressing mental health. How did we get here? And I know we touched on areas where we're like, so if you guys are in a relationship, how did you even get there, anyways? And so one of the things I want to say is for to you guys out there when you get in a relationship with someone, they has to be that point where we gotta get to know each other before we make a decision that we're gonna do this. And if you're truly listening to that or you truly listening to each other, bruv, a lot of these things that come in later shouldn't it shouldn't happen. Well, again, I'm a child. Here's why I say that if if if I'm listening to you and you're listening to me, you understand the simple stuff, you understand what is gonna make me tick, you know what that is. There's all these different things that you already gonna know because we got to know each other before we took this step. Right. Now we're on this journey now. And what does that look like? So this is why I'm saying, like, you know, for how we get here, like what all the different things that happen to compromise a situation or trigger something for a female to act a certain way, or a guy to get to a point where it's like, you know what? I don't see that no one listen to nothing I say, and so I'm just I'm just gonna just keep this to myself and I'm gonna I'm gonna just go in and and just lock away from the world and and then at some point do things to myself. This is this is how a lot of people function and what that looks like. So how can we speak to these individuals that are out there fighting with a lot of that right now and struggling where they're like, yo, I don't know how to do this.

SPEAKER_08 51:04

Well, I think the first thing that's really important is to actually engage in your own life first. And that might sound silly and stupid, but especially if a man like you know, the first time I saw Ron, I was like, okay, here's a man of substance. Yeah. First time I saw you. First time I saw you, Jeffy. You know, here these are men of substance, right? Right. Because you live as men of substance. Right. And I think that's the first thing that's most important. Then after that, then you're able to actually affect change, affect things. But the most important thing in mental health, in my opinion, is you have to take responsibility of your own mental health. Yes. You have to, and mental health isn't something that's inactive, it's in your head. Right. You know, I mean, I think we all know as well as anybody that the mind and the body are connected, and and it's important as men to, you know, marshal our body. I mean, you talk about you know getting to trigger points. You know as well as anybody how important the body is. So if we don't live within our lives well, then I think the rest of it's a new point. Definitely have to prioritize ourselves as men. I like that. And then be honest with others about it.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

And as you grow up, you you're absolutely right. You have to acknowledge it first, right? And when you grow up and you become mature and you're reading books and you you're changing, changing your thought process, you have to realize you gotta take time to dissect why do I shut down? Why do I hate drama? Why do I get upset when these certain things happen? And I can just talk about myself, and I just realized it's certain things I've realized, like, this is why I'm like that. And one is is like drama and and chaos. Yeah, you know, I'm from the city of Detroit, bro. It's like you walk around the corner, you got chaos, you got drama, you got people getting killed, things like that. So my family was always a part of that. So when somebody called me as a 40-year-old and tell me about drama and what's going on, I snapped. Yeah. And I'm questioning them, like, what did you do? Why are you in this stuff? Right. Why do you keep doing this and repeating this stuff? Right. And then I had to fall back and say, why am I like that? Yeah. Why am I not supported when somebody called me and they say they in something? Right. The reason being is I've experienced that when I was a child. My parents fought all the time. I'm from a city that's that that's that's always doing certain things, that a lot of things are going on in the streets. And I just I I end up getting out of it. Yeah. So if I done got out of that, I don't want to go back. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But I had to realize this is why I snap. When you call me, you talk about, yeah, we all we all about to go jump this brother. Like, what the f like what are you? Like, no, that ain't me anymore. I'm not against that. Yeah, I done removed myself from here. But I had to realize, all right, because I was struggling with like, damn, I'm not, I know and I feel that when they do do that and talk about family too. When they do call me, I'm not supportive at all. Yeah. Like, I'm not, and I need to work on that. But I had to realize, acknowledge that, hey, the reason you're like this because you done fought so hard to get away from it. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

As a matter of fact, I had my brother who actually called me a couple weeks ago about an issue, and I reacted the same way you reacted. You know, I snapped. I'm like, yo, like you gotta do this, you gotta do that. It's like us men, we have this built-in tendency to fix things. Yes. We just want to, it's like the problem's there, let's just fix it so that way it doesn't become a problem again, right? But because we can see things objectively in somebody else, right? They themselves can't really understand. It's like the saying a wise man learns from the mistakes of a um of others while a fool learns from his own mistakes. But oftentimes a fool is a lot wiser than a wise man because he can turn pain into his advantage, if that makes any sense. Yeah. Um, and I I I know it's it's a bit of an oxymoron, but sometimes you just gotta let people go through whatever it is that they need to go through, and that's what I had to realize. Right. And so I spoke to my brother yesterday, and I was like, you know, I apologize first and foremost, and then I acknowledge what he was going through because we're going through very similar situations. And you just gotta be a listening ear.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

But did you, did you dissect why you did that? Absolutely. And for me, and I don't know your situation, whatever, but you going through some stuff.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

You you you got a life of your own. And this mama calling me, talking about his little problems. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's that's that's a real big issue where you like, yo, I'm yeah, Negro, you you ain't calling me, ask me about what I'm going through.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

You want me to come fix yours? Right, right.

SPEAKER_08 56:16

But I think there's one thing too that happens, and I I think, you know, Jafty's right in the middle of this arc, and it's something that we all go through. Is I think that with men, there is a for quote unquote lack of better term, a hero's arc, so to speak. You know, I mean, iron doesn't sharpen iron without some friction and without some sparks, you know. And so, you know, there is this process where we have to go through, you know, tempered steel and sharpen it, and then get out to the other side of it to where it's like, I don't have to be so brutal with the blade anymore. I can be much more fluid, much more in and flow. And and so I think that's the real challenge is that for men, it's not a it's not really a static destination. It it truly is kind of a hero's arc of darkness to you know lightness to where it's like, okay, now I see both sides. Because, you know, what you're talking about, hey, fool, you know, what are you talking about? Not being supportive, but then coming in later. I mean, both sides are not wrong, you know. But it's great that you embody both sides. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

So so here's what I love to do as well. I I love for individuals that are going through mental health right now, five to-do lists. What would you guys suggest to them? Read, read, read, read. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Read the cast, read.

SPEAKER_08 57:37

Yeah. Right, you gotta be saying this one, work out. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 57:41

Men always work in the gym to, you know, reading, but uh yes, working out, but once you work out, you again, you gotta replace what's in the mind, right? Because it's you you're playing you're replaying something over and over, and you're telling yourself something over and over every day. Even when I work out, right? I might do the squats and forget what it is that I just said during that, doing that workout. But once that workout is over, I gotta go back to my own thoughts.

SPEAKER_06 58:04

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

So I'm going back to those same thoughts to read. So in order to re really replace those thoughts, those negative thoughts, you gotta read. Right. Right? You gotta read something that's gonna be tangible, that's something intelligent, that's something that's positive, that's gonna really replace what's going on that you're replaying over and over to now encourage yourself. The Bible says that what David says, encourage yourself, right, in the Lord. That and in that moment, he was going through a struggle that he had to encourage himself because there was nobody else around. Right. Right. So we ourselves as a million. Right. Have to encourage ourselves in the midst of the storm to be able to really get back to who you are because first you gotta know who you are.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

And in the midst of that, encourage yourself. And then, yes, go work out.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

Okay. So my so my my thought on that is the reason for working out, it's not to process the thought, but it's more so to, it's more so to feel the trapped emotions, the emotions that you can't bring yourself to feel. So you want to get to a level where your body has no choice but to secrete those emotions, right? And then second, get right with God. God is in you, God is everywhere. I'm telling you, man, having a relationship with God, however you have this relationship with God, it is crucial to put God first. Yeah, okay. No matter what hardship you're going through. Yeah. And even if it's a marital issue, relationship, friendship, family ship, whatever you want to call it, yeah, don't make anything else your idol. Over God first. Good. Okay. Which means you prioritize. We just did it yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

Well, yeah, but you because he had said something first, then did the whole God thing second. So I'm glad you fixed that. Absolutely. All right. So I'm hitting you guys with some rapid things. I just want you guys to tell me without even explaining what you would do in a situation, and we move into the next one. You go home, you have a woman that you love so much, you caught her with your neighbor having sex. What do you do? Ronald. Man, that's we gotta get back to Randall. What do you do? What do you do? This this quick quick reaction. What what are you doing?

SPEAKER_08 1:00:27

You you gotta bounce, you gotta walk.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

You bouncing. What do you do? What are you doing, Jeff Tap?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:32

I'll sit down and be like, hey, continue. Go ahead. Pull out the camera. What do you do, Bernard?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

I gotta remove myself. Okay. Yeah, you gotta remove your money. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:41

Walk right back out.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

You have a best friend. This this is your this is your guy right here, and there's a girl that you were crazy about that you talk to him about all the time, and you find out he got with her. What do you do? Move on. Yeah, move on. I mean, I'm I mean Well, what when you say move on, you moving on with the friendship or moving on with the friendship.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:03

No, there's no there's no issue with the friendship. Right, there's no issue with the friendship. Hey, move on, go to another woman. There's many women out there. She obviously chose you.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Because remember now, remember now, a lot of people go into mental health state because of these situations.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:17

But you can't, like you said earlier, you can't be prioritizing a woman above all else.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Right, right, right, right. God first. I I like that. You get scammed.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:28

You gotta set your boundaries for sure. Yeah. But you can't, if it's something that you can't resolve, you also gotta move on. But but you gotta make sure that you're not just allowing an overstep. I mean, you gotta make sure that uh you can resolve it. And if you can't, then you gotta move on.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:44

When you say get scammed, like what do you mean like screaming?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Yeah, like you know, someone scam you out of money.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Okay, if you can fix it, fix it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

If you can't then don't worry about it, to be honest with you. But you can't run from it. I like that. You have a job that you really love the job, but the boss that you have is just overbearing.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:04

Encourage yourself again. Go back to encourage yourself. You gotta begin to say affirmations to yourself every day that allows you to go to work to look at what you're going through differently until you can change your situation.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

My my take on that is obviously that that boss is going through something and I can't let their problem become my problem. I have I'm getting paid for eight hours of my time. I show up for those eight hours, I do the best I can for those eight hours. If the boss is overbearing, that's their personality. And if I am not, or if I am an obstacle for the overbearing boss, then remove me. Yeah. And then find somebody else that you can be overbearing to.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

You're making three grand a week, but you're living on your your lifestyle is four thousand dollars a week. What do you do? You gotta trim quite yeah, you gotta change some things.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:04

Yeah, you gotta trim the fat. Yeah, big time. You gotta get rid of the things that's not it's it's really taking up more time than you didn't need to be, and you gotta think about what's adding value. Right. If something is not adding value, and you're your expenses is four thousand and you're only making three thousand, that means you gotta change something. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

Yeah, I mean, and also there's different factors that are at play in a scenario like that, because then you have to consider like, well, what am I dealing with? Am I in survival mode? And then I'm dealing with like expenses from the past, and like do I really have three grands a week that I'm actually you know spinning? Like it's all about the circumstances, and I feel like you're either gonna completely trim the fat and start counting out grains of rice and beans that you're gonna eat, or or just keep your head up and take on more responsibilities, do more where you can bring in more income. It's all about what's more most important to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

You're in a relaxed mood. This person walks up to you from nowhere that don't know you and just slap you when you don't.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

First, I'd look around. They all about the lobby.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

Hey, I'm I'm I'm probably gonna snap it back. It's about to go down. Some random dollars. It's gonna startle me for a second, but listen, I'm gonna snap right back. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:43

Okay. Take a real close look at that guy. That's all I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:46

And he probably won't even get to hit me.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:53

I'm just picturing the scenario. I'm just sitting down at the mall minding my own business, you know. And then just a random person just wham whacks me right across the field.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:02

People don't get that close, you don't allow them to get that close to the city. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:05

So I feel because I I'm automatically gonna feel somebody walking up to me, but it's uh believe it or not, it happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Yeah, it happens. It's like because of the social media stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're trying to get famous, they're coming and do some stuff to you where you that's weird. Yeah, yeah. I got one. Yeah. You had a child with someone and they refuse to let you see the child.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:29

Ooh. And you're a good man. Yeah, that one I don't know. That one's that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

You gotta help our audience. Yeah, yeah. My boys called me about this all the time. Yeah, no, hey, no someone who's from this. Or or you you with a woman, they got kids, you got kids, but the the woman jealous of your ex. The one you had kids with. Like, what do you do in these situations?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

I think there's a movie about that. I'm just talking about real life. No, no, no, no. But it's look, it was that's hard, yo.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Some stuff you gotta write out. No, you do. You gotta write it out.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

You do, you do.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:07

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:08

And it's all situational, and everything is situational awareness, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:06:11

But that's why, I'm sorry to cut you off, but that's why it's so important for the young men to understand that their decisions are so important to make sure that they protect themselves because you don't want to ride stuff out for 20 or 30 years.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:22

Nah, you don't, because again, like I said, everything is situational awareness. Yeah, every woman, every every woman is different, right? In that same situation, it it'll be different from one woman to the next.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:30

I I do have an input on that though, because it don't it doesn't matter who you get with, just know that that person is gonna continue to grow and they're gonna change. Yeah, right. Right, without a doubt. There's a saying that says, you know, it's this guy who was married to his wife, and he said during the 50 years of my marriage, my wife changed eight different times, and I had to be a different man for each version of my wife. Yeah, yeah. And it rings even more true now when I see my daughter, as she's growing, she's changing. Right. As she's growing, I have to change for her because I know that if I don't change for her, then it's it's not gonna be good. Right. Right. Because not only is it good for me to change for her, but it's it helps me expand my consciousness to stay current with what's considered uh good for her well-being overall.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

All right. So this is a real life situation that happened, uh, things happen afterwards, but I'm gonna put you guys in a situation, you tell me what you guys would do. You live in a house with your wife for 25 years, you guys are struggling to make the mortgage at times, you find yourself working three jobs to make sure you're making the mortgage and making sure certain things uh are done. And then you find out your wife owned the house. What do you do? Whoa. She owns the house? Yeah. But you've been trying to admit, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:12

Wait, after you bought it?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

No, no, no. You've been working your butt off three jobs and you found out that it's already been paid off. Yeah. Is that what you're trying to say? She owns the house. That ain't no why she'll sit down and then I mean, unless if she's some kind of mastermind and she has a plan for this money and she's moving the money in different ways, I would be like, what gives, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

I will, I will, cuz because I'm I'm changed, right? I'm transformed, right? Yeah. I'm different now. I will blame the man. The reason I'm blaming the man is because paying off things, finances, bills, it's a communication thing. Yeah. Yeah. And that lady then feels safe to let you know that we got this handle. You can move on to something else. I would put that on that man and then that relationship. I mean, she has fought in that also, but at the same time, you something big like that, I sell houses, so that's a big emotional purchase, right? An investment, whatever you want to call it. And it's it's funny that you say that because I've helped husbands and wives, and some of the wives and some of the husbands don't want to be a part of this whole situation.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:37

So if something happens, they lose, or they they gain something.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

You want you won at the part, you didn't want to be a part of the situation at the beginning. So how you just all of a sudden you mad that something got paid off?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

Yeah. So you you guys want to hear the the end of the story? Guy went into a whole mental health situation. No, no, no, no. Killed her. No, no, no, no, no. Wow. That's that's it. You're done. I'm sorry, guys. That's that's what happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

But um, there's actually a story uh I'd say just a little over a decade ago in Naples where a man killed his wife and his five kids. Um, well the man killed.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:21

Yeah. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

I'm sorry. But but I think what causes someone to do. This is why it's important mental health.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:30

But I do think it it it's points to something that really needs to be said amongst men. Right. And and I do say that there's males and there's men, and men are a subset of males, and not all males get to this area. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:42

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:42

And I think the men over here have one thing in common, and that is that they will sacrifice themselves, not others. Right. You know, they take that amount of extreme accountability. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:53

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:54

And so I think in a scenario like that, a man entering in any situation, like you said, it's on the man, right? I think a man entering in certain situations has to know that he has to walk away with nothing at times. Right. You know, he just has to have that. You know, it he doesn't want to play to that game. Right. But he has to understand that that could be the ultimate outcome and be willing to step out and rebuild.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:20

And that's a hard pill for a lot of men to swallow.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:23

So I think Yeah, it's hard, man, because you know, again, just like I said, this for me, this right here is a safe space. To be able to go to another man and say, hey man, I have this issue. I need help. What do you think? Right. And I think a lot of times men don't have that. To be able to feel safe to go to another man and say, hey, look, I have this issue. Right. What do you think? And how should I handle this issue? Yeah. Right? So now we're going to home, we're going to work every day and we're feeling used. Right. Right. As men, what kinds of, if it got three jobs, paying for the paying the bills, right? And then finding out your wife owns it, like, that's hard. Like, I'm busting my behind every day, trying to pay the bills, and some bills I'm late on, and you're telling me you own the house? Wow. Like, let's really think about the factors of what's going on and how long has this been going on, right? That's the other thing that you got to think about. Now, this man is waking up at 3, 4, 5 a.m. in the morning time just to go to work and work three jobs on a weekly basis, right? Just to meet the bills. You know what I mean? Like, that means he's not spending time with the kids, not spending time with his wife, right? He's not even getting his relaxation time and it's a long time because he got to work three jobs. Yeah, yeah. Right. And now to come to the wisdom and knowledge to understanding that you own this.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

Yeah. Yeah. But that just shows you that he had no other platform to speak about this. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:42

So he had no friends. He couldn't have, right? If he snapped like that, there was no friends. Right. Right. Right. There was no outlet.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

He's just building up. Big time.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:52

That's been going on for some time because now I'm mad, number one, because they got to work three jobs.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:58

You already exhausted.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:01

Like the kids are getting on my nerves. We're probably having arguments from time to time as a husband and wife. And now you put I find out and get the knowledge that you own this house and I don't have to work, and I didn't have to work three jobs all this time. Let's really make it make sense. No, he shouldn't have not snapped like that and killed him. But the other flip side is that woman should have been told him a long time ago.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:28

So but there is no, but but to your point though, there is no sympathy on the masculine side. No, no, there's no sympathy.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:37

That doesn't mean that don't give him permission to do what he did. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:40

But I'm just acknowledging the isolation of that guy. Yeah, yeah. Because at the end of the day, I mean, there's you know, there's no reason to you know go that few. You do it on the flip side, you got ABC News and 20 other organizations coming out.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

You know, the next the next hard thing, and here's the thing a lot of men are going through a lot of these things because of the things that are happening to them.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:00

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:01

This other guy had five kids with this woman. Five. The oldest one was 17 years old. And I want to say they're going on about maybe year 22.

unknown 1:14:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

He finds out not one of those kids was his.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:22

Yeah. 22 years together? See, these are the things that see what I'm just saying, man. But but that's what makes a man now. Now, now after 22 years, I've been with this woman, and none of these kids are mine, and I've been taking care of all of them. And now I'm quote unquote in my head, I'm the father, but now I'm not.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:41

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:42

Well, at that point, it's you really can't speak on it because you haven't been through it in such a way. Because you gotta think about from what you yourself been through already, yeah, as a man, and you think about the simple factors of now 22 years, five kids, the oldest one is 17, and now I'm finding out none of these kids are mine.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:03

Come on. I mean, like, it's it's it is a very compromising state, you know, your mental state, because there's your moral obligation to these kids, and then there's also this feeling of betrayal that you're that you're you're you're you're sensing, you know. It's like this whole entire time you got me believing that these children were my children. How how could you? Right. Well, but at the same time, it's like I've already invested so much time with them, right? It's what do I do? But I'll be in their lives, but I'm not gonna be with you, if that makes any sense. It is it is That's challenging.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:46

It is very men need it's but but I think the other thing too, too, what what you're discussing is is that that you know, and and I don't like talking about systematic stuff that much. Right. But at the same time, you know men really need to acknowledge and share the information that, you know, the way that this system is set up is really, quite frankly, you know, against us a bit. You know?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:11

And, you know, at the same time, you're isolated alone. Right. And so you've been working at this ideal for 20 years, and all of a sudden you realize that what you're working for is completely wrong, and there's no support system. And it's like, what did I just do for 20 years? And it can become an explosive situation, but nobody's really discussing it. You know, we're discussing it here, but trying to get it down to the younger men and you know, the guys coming up, it's it's a real challenge to educate them. But what they're doing is they're just tapping out at this point. They're not even trying.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:46

I I I have a very interesting input on the double standards, this whole systemic double standard thing. One of the greatest things that I've noticed is, especially at the gym, it's it's motivation for me to the women, they will wear some of the best outfits. Well, that's the quote unquote best outfit. But if a man were to do the very same thing, he would he would be escorted out. Meaning, wearing anything that's bulging out in the front, right? Where his private's bulging, that's considered inappropriate, and he would be escorted out. Right. And I've seen a video where things like that has happened. Right. Right. And it's just it's more of a social experiment, just to kind of show the show the double standards. Yeah, the double standards in society. And unfortunately, double standards are a real thing, and being a man is having to accept some of the double standards.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:48

It's been around for so long. Society accepts certain things. Absolutely. And society don't accept certain things. So one of the things I wanted to tell you guys, because I did have someone that wanted to come on the show that I wasn't sure how we were gonna able to handle, and I said, let's leave that for the next show, which is possibly gonna happen. And this guy is he's a homosexual. And so and that's something hard for a lot of people to to handle. That's not necessarily acceptance of that world. Right. We gotta deal with it because they're there. So it's the what is those conversations look like? Not trying to get the input from you guys on that, but what I'm telling you guys is that was supposed to happen. I just I didn't have much fit in. I didn't have much fit in for that for the show. So with me saying that is now is it important for these young men to have mentors?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

Absolutely, most definitely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:59

What do you say to moms that feel like it's okay for them to just be the one raising their kid without the man?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:07

Not a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

It's it's it's two things because what I see. Yeah. I'm around the kids, I'm the youth. It's two things. You got the moms that's saying that, you know, I can do everything. Yeah, right. Which again, we gotta blame ourselves sometimes. Because we walked out, we shut down, right, and they say, I gotta do it, right? Right. And they pray for independence and all that stuff. So they gotta blame themselves a little bit too. Right. Because you wanted that job as like a man to get paid like a man. So we deal with those things. And then you got some mothers, women that pick the wrong men. Yeah. And when I say that, they go to the Lily football coaches, or you know, the the ones that they utilize these women for clout, things like that, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:19:56

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

And and that those are the two things where the mentor, you think they mentors, but you just not picking the right people. You're not putting your children around the right individuals. Right. But I again, I I I challenge, man. I challenge you. It's like going to the gym. Let's you go 315, I go 370, you know. So we have to realize that we are leaders. Yes. You're not that that that 15-year-old boy, you're not his his friend, you're not, you supposed to be the one that's chastising him and telling him, hey, listen here, pull up your pants, do these things. The things that we hated when we was growing up. Right, right, right. I don't see that anymore. Yeah. Because everybody wants to be cool, everybody wants to be smooth, everybody want to be somebody's friend and stuff. Right. No, but we respected those coaches that said, hey, get sit, go to class, sit your tail in the front, yeah, ask questions, you know what I'm saying? Instead of the coach saying, Hey, just make sure you get a C.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:55

Yeah. So right now we're at the top of the hour, and so we're, you know, we we definitely, you know, want to just kind of add some plug-ins on, you know, where you would suggest for individuals that are going through mental health a to-do list, some action items, you know, after they listen to the show, okay, what can they take away?

SPEAKER_08 1:21:19

I think the hardest thing is to get connected, you know, to reach out to somebody else. So I would say that that would be the first thing that I would recommend because of course pray. But after that, I think you really need to reach out to somebody.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:35

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um I I would say uh, because I I I I again I make candles. I love making candles. And I always like to use the candles as a symbolic meaning for yourself to affirm who you are, to get back to where you're supposed to be. And what I mean by that is that I always tell people when they buy a candle to choose one word. Yeah. One word that identifies with who you are, no matter where you are, no matter what you're doing.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:00

That's something that's gonna bring you back to life, not what people tell you, not what you tell yourself every day, but something that when you're in your sh your most darkest hour, yeah, right, that's something that everything is feeling you feel like everything is going wrong. Yeah, what is this one word that you can say that's gonna bring you back to who you really are, right? That's gonna remind you this is who I really am. Like for me, I always say over and over, I am love. Yes. Right? So it reminds me of who I am and whose I am, right? Right? Knowing that God is always in control. So I always gotta remind myself that. So if I was to say anything, again, it's always about affirming you first before somebody else affirms you, because nobody can speak to you the way you can speak to you. So it's about having that positive affirmation or that positive word that's gonna really bring you back to life and bring you back to remembering who you really are. I love that. Jeff Day.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:52

I my advice to you is study your mind, study your brain, and find someone you can identify with as a father figure or someone that models your level of success. And don't be afraid to ask them for mentorship. My first attempt at mentorship was just me at work one day and I simply said, Hey, I I like what you stand for. I really want to pick your brain. I'm wondering if it's if if you if you could mentor me at least a couple times a week, we could sit down, um, have coffee, we can talk about a few things, pick each other's brain. And uh just from it being more of a structured mentorship, it became more organic and the the friendship deepened and the trust uh started to really get there to the point where I can become a little bit more vulnerable. Beautiful and I think that's how it usually has to start out. It's really mentorship is key, whether it be your you know, an uncle, you know, a father figure, it could it literally any older male gentleman if they're older, they model your version of success, and you see how they work, you see how they navigate life, just it never hurts to just ask.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:21

Beautiful, Bernard.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:23

I was gonna say mentorship, that's very important, but what I would say and something that I I've learned recently is to love people, yeah. It's to show love because it's frowned upon for a grown man 6'3 270 to show love to a teenager, show love to another man, show love to individuals that you're not supposed to. That doesn't look right, right? Right, right, right. But when you carry yourself around knowing that you are loving on someone, you you can take somebody stabbing you in your back. You can take somebody trying to curse you out, you can take things not working your way like they supposed to, or you walking in the house and something that's not supposed to be there. So once you start really loving people, man, yeah, your mentality, your your reaction totally changes and it slows everything down for you. Yeah, that's very powerful. And don't be afraid, like I said, that was my thing. Don't be afraid to really, really love because society tells us you're not so basically you're not so opposed to, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:28

I do have an add-on to what you just said, and and so I I I'll say go ahead and and love people, but don't love to the point where you lose respect for yourself, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:38

Absolutely, love that. Listen, guys, you guys got a few gems. You guys are welcome, but it's important. Find God. If you don't know God, find mentors, you know, whoever that looks like, pay attention to detail, love, it's a beautiful thing. It's to be continued because there's a lot of stuff that we didn't get to tap into. We got other people that wanted to be on the panel. If we had put everyone that wanted to be in this room and I'd left so many people out that wanted to be on the panel, hey, you can be on the next one. We'll have a bigger space. But we do have the men's mental health coming up. I mean, it's only limited to 100 guys, so you know, if you know Bernard or myself, there is a possibility you might be able to get an invite. But I don't know if we're already full. Are we full already?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:33

We we we we almost there, but we are accepting donations and sponsorships. Yes. You can easily donate by texting man to 53555. I mean it gives you the sponsorship, tiers, and things like that, or you can just give a generous donation. This is this event is free for all men, yeah, but we do need to be able to pay for photography, pay for the venue. It's at the Grand Desert. This will all be happening January 23rd, 2027.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:04

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:05

January 23rd, 2027. It's beautiful. Um, this is gonna be a big platform for us to open up and talk a safe platform to really get down and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:17

And is it safe to say the the the three men here got got them a ticket? Yeah, you got y'all, y'all invite him. All right, so uh listen, guys, and you guys will get the information when the official video comes out with all the information at the bottom of the screen. Again, I did mention the number that you guys could have called in, but I figure that we should have had it on the screen so they could have done that. So, our my apologies on that, guys. Next time you guys will get to conversate with us. But hopefully, we have covered some areas that you guys need answers to. And if not, we're gonna be doing this again, and so we'll we'll pick it up from there. So, until our next episode, where we have another decorative guest, as we had today, yeah, right here in ES Club. Thank you.