The Call for Purpose-Driven Leadership | Max Moyo on Purpose, Impact & Authentic Leadership

What does it mean to lead with purpose in a world driven by performance, pressure, and constant change?

In this powerful episode of Africa Rising Leadership Conversations, Nomazibulo Tshanga sits down with Max Moyo—leadership strategist, speaker, coach, and Founder of Ignite My Potential to unpack the urgent call for purpose-driven leadership.

Drawing from years of leadership experience and impact across Africa, Max shares why purpose is no longer a luxury for leaders, it is a necessity. Together, they explore authentic leadership, personal growth, influence, legacy, and the responsibility leaders have to inspire meaningful change in others.

This conversation is a reminder that leadership is not about titles, status, or power. It is about knowing who you are, why you lead, and the impact you leave behind.

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www.africarisingleadership.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Leadership in Africa has been a disaster. And I I say that with a heavy heart. It's been a disaster in our politics. It's been a disaster in corporate. And it hasn't been a lack of education. It's been an identity problem. I mean, this thing of presidents with motorcades and whatever, that's a new thing. In a typical African village, the king did not have a procession of people protecting him from his own people.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Why?

SPEAKER_07 0:32

That's why I love the work you are doing in Africa Rising is that we need to start developing leaders from an African perspective. And the anchor of that is going to be as long as I make a difference enough people, money will never be a problem. Perfect example of this is about being fruitful. A mango tree does one thing, it produces mangoes. As long as it's fruitful, the bees will find it.

unknown 1:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 1:05

The birds will find it. Wow. Anything that eats mangoes will find it. The one looking for a shade will find it. So the reason why it looks like people walk past you and they simply don't even recognize you. You know why? Because the point is that if you're good at what you do, your color, your gender, your nationality, all those things don't matter. We will solve these issues that we have in South Africa, particularly, when people begin to live a life of purpose. As long as you are not making a difference in another human being, it's as good as if you don't exist. Let me quote your own people.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:55

Wa zaalwa. You were born, you ate, and you died. That would be the writing on most people's tombstones. Now, if you want to do anything that's against your identity, it'll never work. If we want to re- re reclaim our leadership in Africa, the best place to start is. So the first burden is developing myself so that I can be of value to society. And so I hope that those who are listening to me and are excited about the concept of leadership are willing to pay the price.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Because leadership and Africa Rise Today.

SPEAKER_06 2:50

Hello. Welcome to Africa Rising Leadership Conversations. My name is Norma Zimullochanga, and I am your host for today. So I am not alone. I am with an exceptional man who has been my anchor, my coach, and really a role model. Someone that has is living his life based on his own experiences. And really the coaching tools and some of the insights that he provides through his books, through his engagements, it's just extraordinary. It's someone that I have known for a couple of years now. I mean, when I was transitioning from corporate to starting my own business and some of the challenges that led me to transition, he's the man that held my hand and said, This is how you're going to do it. You are not going to put emotions into all of this. We are going to do it the right way because you will need the people that you are now angry with. And I remember that advice vividly as if it was yesterday. We were sitting at a coffee shop talking about this, and I had relayed to you that, Max, I want to write a book, right? And I said to you, the book will be How Corporate Bruised Me, right? And because I wanted to talk about my experiences at the time that I had transitioned, and because I had experienced loss, as you know, and I had experienced some of the, you know, unfair treatment, right, within the workplace. And as high level as I was, I mean, I was an executive, but um at the same time, I was also human. So I was feeling the things. And I've been in corporate for 12 years. Um, and I think at that point, I had not reflected on my successes. I was only focusing on that one or two incidents that had happened and that led me to then um eventually um championship. Then you, through your tools, right, your mentorship tools, your coaching tools, you grounded me. And then you were like, Norma, this is not where we are starting. Um, I know you want to start your own business now, et cetera, but you are not going to start with how corporate bruised you because you are going to need the same people in your business. And I thank you until today. The book is not yet out, has been pissering me about the book. One day I will write the book, but that one day is very soon. Don't worry. Max Moyo, who is the founder and CEO of Ignite My Potential, um, just talk us through who Max is and and what are the sort of experiences that has shaped you to be the person that you are today, contributing significantly into the world of leadership and um the world of human identity.

SPEAKER_07 5:27

Uh, you know, thank you for having me. I you know, when I think about who I am, it's very simple, really. I'm a teacher of simple, universal, and timeless principles of human effectiveness. How do human beings become effective? I'm I'm I'm obsessed with that. Um and and it's interesting because if I look at my background, I was born in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. And um the the the person who really influenced me was my maternal grandfather. He was uh what do you call a village lay preacher? And and this man would preach. And and when we come out of the of church, I'd go into the Millie fields and I'll preach to the millies. Um what I didn't know was already at that particular point in time, my background was preparing me for my purpose. And um the the village upbringing is one of the things that helped helps to keep me grounded. The the the the caring that village people have for each other, the community, that also helps me in terms of my work, the work that I do. So that you are always grounded in I'm here to serve. And and and I hope that I will live, uh, I'll be true to that creed that I'm here to serve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:56

And I think you've done that exceptionally well. I mean, you've served us in in ways. I mean, when I say us, I'm inclusive of the communities that you engage with on a daily basis. You've served us in ways that um sometimes you may look back and thought and think it was little. But um with us, reflecting today, we're thinking that was insurmountable. I mean, the contributions that you make um on a daily basis. You were actually my first real coach. I've had coaches in between um when I was in corporate, etc. But you the one that insisted that we will, it will be structured, right? It will be a coaching session that is structured with outcomes, and that's exactly what we drove at the time. Now, Max, how did you get into leadership and why the edge to get into leadership?

SPEAKER_07 7:41

So if you think about about leadership, leadership is about getting things done. Leadership is about is about moving from where we are to where we need to be. Uh it's about galvanizing human beings, galvanizing society, um, galvanizing organizations, toward nations for that matter, towards a specific goal. And you're not gonna achieve anything in life without leadership. So for your life to achieve your life's goals, you must have personal leadership. To achieve your family goals, you and your partner must have leadership. And then if you go to the corporate world, the same is true. And and and so my interest in leadership, we confuse leadership today with positions that you hold. And so if I ask the average person, are your leader, they say no. But actually, leadership is simply taking control of your life and and and finding the space where you can make a difference. And and and throughout my years, and I was I I actually am very fortunate because my upbringing, I grew up in mission schools. And part of what fascinated me was how people would leave the United Kingdom, uh, leave New York City, and come to some village somewhere and and and teach kids in some village and actually die there. I mean, some of those missionaries actually died there. No, no member of the family actually was at the funeral. I'd look at this and think, what would move a human being to do that? And as I, you know, as I got older, I realized that's what leadership does to you. Leadership will force you to leave. In fact, let's stick up at this. And maybe this is gonna move us into this leadership thing. You know my book, The Leadership Call.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 9:41

And and and my argument is that everybody is called to lead. And that call starts like this: leave your place of birth, leave your country, leave your family, leave your community, and then go to a place where you are being called. Because you are never gonna be of much value in your own community.

SPEAKER_06 10:06

Expand on that.

SPEAKER_07 10:10

Isn't this the girl we grew up with? So if we went to PE, for instance, they appreciate you as part of that. It's a child. But it really values you. The concept of a prophet is never recognized in his own hometown.

SPEAKER_06 10:30

Love that.

SPEAKER_07 10:30

Yeah, so leave, you you've got to leave. We we are we you are prepared. It's almost like the bread must leave the oven.

SPEAKER_06 10:38

Yeah, yeah. In order to go value. You can't be in the oven.

SPEAKER_07 10:42

Yes, you can't stay in the oven forever. Yeah. So you must leave. That's why you must leave your family. In fact, and I don't want to end up preachy, but but the concept that a man will leave his father and his mother and then attach himself to his wife. What that says really is that you can't lead until you leave. Yeah. My father used to say, as long as you're under my roof, you do as I say. When you begin to feel like uh you want to decide what to do, we'll go to the chief and you'll get your own piece of land, and then you can establish yourself. Yeah. So the call is about leaving the familiar. Um not just leaving the familiar. Leadership begins the day you decide who you are going to be.

SPEAKER_06 11:33

Wow. Wow. Leadership begins the day you decide who you are going to be.

SPEAKER_07 11:38

You're deciding now. Not who you were. No, no, no. Who you are. Who you are going to be.

SPEAKER_06 11:43

Because until it's an opportunity. Yes. That's why it's a call. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 11:47

Yes. Your parents, they raise you the best way they do. The teachers, the community, the church, everybody contributes to building this person. At some point, you become an adult. And then you must go out in search of yourself. Um if I was talking about the seasons of a human being, there are four seasons.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 12:13

There is what I call the providential season, zero to twenty. You have no choice. You are born without your permission. To parents you didn't choose, color, gender, all these things you didn't choose. And for the next 20 years, somebody's deciding what you wear, where you go to school, what you live. Anybody who is around late teens, early 20s, you will remember when you didn't want to be at home.

SPEAKER_06 12:38

Always.

SPEAKER_07 12:39

And what's interesting, for us who grew up in poor homes, you will think you're running away from the poverty. But I've seen kids from rich homes. They will leave that beautiful mansion and go sit in some room somewhere with a five. One bedroom. You know what's happening there? It's your leadership calling. You know you are born for something larger than being your mother's child. Yes. Yeah. Or being whatever your son is. And so you go in search of yourself. So for the next 20 years, I always call it 20 to 40. I call it the searching years. What are you searching? You are now asking, who am I? Not who your parents told you you are, not what your teachers told you you are, not what your community, it's who am I? So you start looking at what are my talents? What are my gifts? What moves me? Um, what burdens attract me?

SPEAKER_06 13:33

Wow, wait, wait, wait, wait. We need to explore this. What burdens attract me, right? And um, I've seen this in my life, and I've seen this in the life of those that I journey with, right? Where um, and I don't want to make a negative example. I mean, there are some positive examples where you find you walk into a room and you attract certain people. Or you walk, or whenever certain conversations are made, they've got your name in it. Similar conversations. So I love the fact that you talk about what burdens, what burdens do I attract? Or what burdens attract me, right? Can we explore that concept in in the way you wrote it in your book, or in the way you understand it as per your leadership insights?

SPEAKER_07 14:17

So if we think about leadership, leadership is about responsibility. There's a burden, and you take responsibility for that burden. Typical example. Growing up in the village. Uh some of us are old school. You guys are youngsters, so you won't understand this. We grew up in those days when teachers were real teachers. You know, where the headmaster would walk through the village looking for kids who are of school going age. And actually, this kid must be in school.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:48

Nurses went around checking the elderly and whatever. So so what I learned at that point in time is that all of us have got something that pulls us, a burden that pulls us. Now you'll see the those who are called to teach. Every time you see a child out of school, it hurts you.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

It hurts you. It's a burden.

SPEAKER_07 15:08

It just hurts you so badly. Some of some people, you see a hungry person and it just tears you apart. Um, for some people, and this is interesting about burdens, because we tend to think of life from a different perspective. When you think about burdens, some people are concerned about trees. So if you cut a tree down, this person will be in tears.

SPEAKER_06 15:36

And I often wondered, I mean, the little thing that you take for granted. I mean, people cry when they are dogs, just or they are cats. I'm like, okay, it's just a dog, it's just an animal. No, no, no, no. But it's not just that.

SPEAKER_07 15:48

Every one of us was born with an inherent burden within us that you identify with. Those who like to keep forests, you know, if we cut all the trees in the world, life will stop.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

Because a lot of people don't know that.

SPEAKER_07 16:00

I discovered um a couple of years back that if all the bees died today, life on earth will die. So there are people who actually are concerned about bees. So the universe, or God in his own wisdom, as he produces people, creates people, he creates people who have a specific, and that's where we come to purpose. You have a specific purpose on this planet. And that purpose you find it because of burdens. So it either hurts you or you're just attracted to it.

SPEAKER_06 16:31

Yeah. So that's that's that's the burden. And and I love the fact that we are moving right into purpose because this is a question that I often get all the time. Um, you know, whether it's people that want mentoring, coaching, etc., people always ask me this question, it comes up all the time. How do I know my purples? How do I identify with my peoples? How do I know my purples? Am I leaving my peoples now? I mean, can my purples shift? Can like you've got all sorts of theories around um purpose, you know, and just understanding. And that tells me that we are in constant, as human beings, we are in constant pursuit of something. And unfortunately, because that's something does not have a name, does not have a language, we don't know what we are pursuing, but you you reach something, but you are in constant pursuit of, you know, of those things. And I know your books touch on this. So unpack for us, what does, where is this burning desire? What is this purpose, and what does it look like as we are living our lives, as leaders and as human beings?

SPEAKER_07 17:31

It's simple. Your burden becomes your purpose. So the one who's burdened by children who are not in school, you'll find that education becomes their purpose. They live for that.

SPEAKER_06 17:44

Simple explanation of what purpose is.

SPEAKER_07 17:47

It's just the the burden that that that that that you see, you see a burden and it becomes your purpose. Leadership begins when you take responsibility for that. That's simple.

SPEAKER_06 18:02

Guys, this is what I this is what happens all the time when I'm engaging with Max. Oh, Max will take my mind into psychology, right? You'll take my mind into psychology because you're talking about, you know, purpose is derived from a burden. And burden is an inherent thing that God gives you, right? That you are burdened by this. It is it's sometimes you feel like it's even irritating you. You you need to you know. Um, and then now leadership comes in. So the human thing is the burden and and and the purpose. But now leadership maybe could be identifying first the burden. Yeah, because there are sometimes people that have the burden, but they can't comprehend it.

SPEAKER_07 18:43

So so you you you it the leadership begins when you take responsibility for a burden. And the first act of leadership is taking responsibility for yourself. That's the first act of leader. You can't want to lead there when you're not leading here. So the first the first burden is developing myself so that I can be of value to society. You have a responsibility to develop yourself so you can be of value. So and then we're we're we're blessed because there's a schooling system. What the schooling system does is that it feeds your brain with all this information, which might look like a waste of time. But actually, first of all, it teaches you how to process, how to think.

SPEAKER_06 19:35

But all this processing skills, critical thinking skills, assessment, all the stuff that you do, analyticals.

SPEAKER_07 19:42

But in the process of doing that, as you are growing, the question of who am I and why am I here? That begins to, and that one starts as a teenager. What we call uh the stage. Yeah, you know that stage the child isn't no no no that's a search of meaning. Yeah, at that point, you you you're no longer, you know, when you're a child, whatever your your parents tell you, that's that's the truth. Stage comes when you question everything. And that questioning is what leads you to leaving home in search of yourself. Yes, and in the searching, you're gonna find burdens.

SPEAKER_06 20:31

So this this purpose is actually a pursuit of yourself. Yes. Literally. That is what purpose is.

SPEAKER_07 20:38

Because you are purpose.

SPEAKER_06 20:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 20:41

So when I'm on stage, or when I'm coaching someone, or I'm doing one-on-one with someone, I'm not working. I'm simply manifesting the purpose that I am. And and how you know it's purpose, you will do it whether there's money or not. That's how you know you're where you're supposed to be. So think about the cameraman.

SPEAKER_06 21:05

No, no, I don't want to pass that, you will do it whether there's money or not. Max, we have to talk about the realities of our country now, of our continent, where we're no longer showing up for our purpose. We are showing up because there's a benefit to it, whether it's financial or non-financial, right? Um, there's a benefit to it. And this culture seems to be the culture that we are we are living in, right? And we are raising our kids in, where you know it's a culture of when you show up, what we even have a question that's called, what's in it for me? Yes. What's in it for me? Yeah. So why why must I show up? What what what is it gonna do to me? So, so how do you then demystify that that statement and and just the way that that structure in society to make people realize that? When you are giving of yourself, the universe, others would call it, but I call it God, will then reward you because you would have worked in your papers. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 22:16

Umtu. Gabantu. I am because you are. As long as you are not making a difference in another human being, it's as good as if you don't exist. Okay. Just think about. Every business, every career is about making a difference in somebody's life. It's about solving a problem that someone's, it's about dealing with somebody's burden. Are you seeing the picture? So I I find my value in making a difference in your life. And therefore, I value you because without you I am nobody.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

Wow. So now it becomes an introspection thing. The mirror is on you. Yes, it's not on anyone else. It's not on what I can get from that person. It's what can I give myself?

SPEAKER_07 23:12

As I give of myself. And that's why I've seen CEOs quit their jobs. And then the guy says he's going to Africa to go and drill boreholes in the village. Now, when you're broke, and I remember growing up in poverty, and then you get into this corporate and this guy has moved up, he's a CEO of a company. That's all you want.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:34

And this guy says, no, you know, he's gonna quit. Uh, and he's gonna go, you know, take a four by four and a drilling rig, and you go to villages and provide them with water. You will not understand that until you start your own purpose journey.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 23:50

Because the missing link, you think you need more money, you think you need a better house, you need better clothes, you know, you know, a good, you know, beautiful, you know, that whole social standing. Now, when you don't have it, it it seems like the right pursuit. And and I don't wanna I don't wanna make it evil. Because our our our our journey to purpose includes us taking care of our basic needs.

SPEAKER_06 24:19

The muscle hierarchy of needs.

SPEAKER_07 24:21

But your basic needs should not be the alpha and the omega. It is it is a byproduct of me. As long as I make a difference enough, people money will never be a problem.

SPEAKER_06 24:35

It will find me.

SPEAKER_07 24:36

Yeah. In fact, a perfect example of this is about being fruitful. And in the book uh Become Yourself, I talk about this.

SPEAKER_06 24:44

Oh my god. Mango tree. You talk about being fruitful, and that's my word for 2026.

SPEAKER_07 24:48

Be fruitful. Genesis.

SPEAKER_06 24:50

See fruitful and multiply and have dominion.

SPEAKER_07 24:55

A mango tree does one thing, it produces mangoes. You've never seen a marketing plan for a mango tree.

SPEAKER_06 25:03

No.

SPEAKER_07 25:04

You know, it's living in its purpose. LinkedIn article, Facebook, TikTok, trying to advertise, you know, I've got the best. No, no, no. All the mango tree does is to produce mangoes. As long as it's fruitful, the bees will find it.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 25:22

The birds will find it.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 25:24

Anything that eats mangoes will find it. The one looking for a shade will be. Will find it. So the reason why it looks like people walk past you and they simply don't even recognize you. You know why? Because you lack fruit. So we don't know why you are here.

SPEAKER_06 25:48

So if you think about And the Bible says you will see them by the fruit.

SPEAKER_07 25:52

If you think about the gender issue, the racial issues, the tribal issues, all these are a function of purpose. If you don't know why you are here, we're gonna judge you according. Oh, you are tosser. Right now, unless people understand, they know Noma. Why? They know the difference you've made in their lives. The one who doesn't know the difference you make, they say that's Tosa woman.

SPEAKER_06 26:21

Mmm.

SPEAKER_07 26:23

I wanna get excited now.

SPEAKER_06 26:24

That's exactly, and and I'm I'm happy that we speak about that because these are the realities that we are faced with as leaders and as human beings. It's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:34

That so sometimes, yes, I mean, we can't run away from if you get an organization that's all white, the first thing they see is a black woman or a black man. But the the moment they see and experience the fruit, you stop being the black woman or the black man.

SPEAKER_06 26:52

In fact, you become part of them.

SPEAKER_07 26:53

There we are. No one says, I'm going to my Indian gynaecologist. I'm going to my Chinese doctor. No. I'm going to my doctor. It's only when I'm talking to them that I discover, oh, for some people, it's when you get there, oh, your doctor is black. The point is that if you're good at what you do, your color, your gender, your nationality, all those things don't matter. We will solve these issues that we have in South Africa, particularly, when people begin to live a life of purpose.

SPEAKER_06 27:30

Now, there is a viewer at home, right? Someone, I'm gonna speak about different types of people, right? There is someone at home very disgruntled, um, not appreciating life, very demoralized, comes from a system of abusive parents, um, has maybe encountered abuse themselves. There's a lady in corporate um trying themselves out, they don't know why they're there, they don't know what they want to do, which direction. Um there's a lady that wants to, or a man that wants to transition from corporate to as an entrepreneur, but they don't know the thing that they're working into. Speak to that person and unpack what does that look like in a form of purpose and and why taking a responsibility of that burden and aligning it with your purpose is important.

SPEAKER_07 28:20

Alright, so so you know, it's nice, you know, when you talk purpose, it's exciting. You talk leadership, it's exciting. Yeah, uh, the part I haven't told you is that the purpose, which is the burden. You're not gonna do much about the purpose unless you have a conviction.

SPEAKER_06 28:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 28:42

And I need to explain conviction.

SPEAKER_06 28:44

I was gonna ask. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 28:46

It was Winston Churchill who said one man with conviction can overwhelm a hundred who only have opinions.

SPEAKER_06 28:55

Conviction versus opinions.

SPEAKER_07 28:57

Opinions. Now, here's an interesting thing. I want you to picture Nelson Mandela before a judge. This judge has the power to sentence this guy to death. There's been a long trial that has been going on, and it's the final day of the trial. And the judge says, Nelson, I have heard from the prosecution, I have heard from the defense. Do you have anything to say in mitigation before I pass sentence? Listen to this man. Mandela says, Your Honor, this is an ideal I hope to live for. What Mandela was saying, was saying, Judge, like you, I don't want to die, I want to live. However, he says, I am so convicted that if it's necessary, I am willing to die for it. That's conviction. What are you willing to live for? And if necessary, to die for? Because once you get that, that becomes your anchor.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Anchor.

SPEAKER_07 30:06

And it doesn't matter what winds blow. Because it's easy to say, here's my burden. What happens when I have to coach people for free? Which is where I started. I'd wake up in the morning, go meet someone at a coffee shop. They're not paying me. I'm coaching. Conviction keeps you going. It keeps you. That's the thing. What was his conviction? That all men were born equal. That was Mandela's thing. The burden of he wanted human beings to be treated the same. Watch this. So it's it's it's you must see the burden which you take responsibility for, right? And you must be convicted before you can take that responsibility.

SPEAKER_06 30:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 30:55

Because under pressure, you will leave it.

SPEAKER_06 30:58

Then So it's the conviction that actually anchors you. Yeah, you are convinced. You can leave your pebbles if you want to.

SPEAKER_07 31:04

Anchor is your conviction. And then the vision is then the direction.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:13

So what does Mandela say? What was his conviction that all men are born equal? What was the vision? A non-sexist, non-racist South Africa. So, what's my my conviction? My conviction is every man, woman, and child is born with a unique identity, a unique set of talents and gifts, and for a unique purpose. And because of that, I'm convicted about that. My vision, therefore, is a vision of a world of over 8 billion people who embrace their unique identity. They harness, they develop, and then they deploy their unique talents in pursuit of a life of purpose. When that is done, my friend, my purpose on earth is done, I can die in peace.

SPEAKER_06 31:58

You have to unpack that. I mean, I I feel we went through it very fast. Let's unpack that in a very simplest form where we get to saying, I have lived.

SPEAKER_07 32:10

So burden. So so so every let's take a step back. There's a there's there's you know, life has always conspired to lead you to your purpose. Oh life conspires to lead you where you were born, the parents, the community, the culture is all preparing you for one thing, your purpose.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 32:40

So to put it nicely, you are born in the perfect environment to the perfect parents to prepare you for your purpose. This is gonna hurt.

SPEAKER_06 32:48

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I think this is important, right? Because you talk about the environment, like where were you born, even though you don't choose to be born there, but where were you born? The parents that you had, um the community that you are born in, the culture, the language, everything. All of that is preparing you for your purpose.

SPEAKER_07 33:06

Shaping you.

SPEAKER_06 33:07

And to think sometimes we omit that part of our lives.

SPEAKER_07 33:11

We want to run away from it. So if you're born in poverty, you come to Josie, now you're pretending like, you know. And some of some people are even ashamed.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:21

You know, so you get educated, now you're ashamed of your mother.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:24

Or the grandmother that brought you. And you don't want to take your friends to the village where you grew up from because, you know, you have an identity. In fact, the moment that happens, we know you've got an identity crisis. Let me walk you through this. I discovered something that's very interesting. Your background is never a disadvantage. Your background becomes the necessary pressure cooker to shape you for your purpose. And that's why I tell people all the time: if it was me who got arrested, Mandela got arrested, that same night I'd have made up my mind. In the morning, I say, Chief, I made a mistake, man. No, it's fine, I won't do this thing, I'll go home. Why? Because that's not what I was born to do. I don't have the resilience. Yeah, I don't have the capacity. I can't take the pain that comes with it.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah. Because it's not yours.

SPEAKER_07 34:21

It's not mine. So a lot of people, that's why imitation is dangerous. So the C Noma on TV, the C Noma running Africa Rising, leadership rising, right? They see you with your business there, and they look and say, I want to do what she's doing. In fact, it looks easy when you're doing it. Because you see, in the day-to-day operation, you don't show us your pain.

SPEAKER_06 34:45

I don't, and I will never.

SPEAKER_07 34:46

And you won't show us a pain. It's when now you quit your corporate job to do what Norma is doing. You are quitting not because you have a burden. No, no, no. You are quitting because it looks like Norma is making money and uh, you know, I'm gonna, you know, this thing that I want to work for myself. I hear that all the time. You need to be very clear.

SPEAKER_06 35:06

And I caution about that.

SPEAKER_07 35:07

You need to be very clear about what it is that you're meant to do with your life. Because leadership will cost you. In fact, it was yesterday I was recording a video that says.

SPEAKER_06 35:21

Let's talk about the cost of leadership. Let's talk about you've now, I think we've unpacked the purpose, we understand the leadership and the purpose thing, conviction, responsibility, the cost of leadership. Because everyone, like you said, everyone is a leader. As long as you've got the conviction, you've taken the responsibility.

SPEAKER_07 35:40

That's only the beginning. That's the beginning. That's the first entries. Now I have answered the call. Then the cooking begins.

SPEAKER_06 35:51

And what does it always seem like? The minute you answer the call, like, I mean, we know most we we are built for different streams. You are cruising in one stream, you've identified yourself, solidified yourself. The minute you you go to your second stream of burden, now that you want to answer, the pressure begins.

SPEAKER_07 36:09

Because before you can be effective, you must become.

SPEAKER_06 36:15

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 36:17

You become first.

SPEAKER_06 36:19

How do you become?

SPEAKER_07 36:21

So the cooking let me say you are you asked me a question that I didn't answer. About the person who's at home, who's probably in a, you know, grew up in an abusive environment, perhaps they've been abused themselves. Yeah. And you look at that and you say, I mean, this person's it's over for them. Can I can I help that person for a moment? The abuse. The if you're if you're born in an abusive relationship, um, you were born in poverty. You didn't even know who your parents were. You were raised by some neighbor just became kind and they pick you up. Because we've got people like that, where you don't know your father, you don't know your mother, some grandmother just picked you up. Right? That, my friend, is your necessary pressure cooker to prepare you for your purpose. This is very important. That your background is always a pointer to your purpose.

unknown 37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:26

It's a pointer. If you I love history. So one of the things that we must all become students of history, particularly read biographies and see where some of these men and women that we we we worship so much, where they came from, you're going to find they went through a cooking period. Oprah Winfrey. We all know her story. Fired because she's what she was too big or whatever, fat to be on TV. Goes on to start her own show, she retires a billionaire. If she was never fired.

SPEAKER_06 37:59

The story would have been different.

SPEAKER_07 38:00

No, we never no who if the if if you know where you were working, if they never, if they ever lit the fire, if they didn't terrorize you, we would not know whom Norma was. Yes, you would have been an executive, you'd have made money, you'd have you traveled the world, your kids wouldn't have gone to the right school, but we would have never, if you look at them millions, and you don't you won't know it, but the millions of people that you're already touching now, those people would have waited for Mother Nature to create another norma to come and fulfill this mission. So it is very so what what what you think that your parents are abusive, your manager is abusive, um is perhaps the best thing that can ever happen to you. Some of you will have stories of teachers who hated you. Now that you are successful, you look back and say, if that guy had not been so hard on me, or a manager who seems to just own your case, own your case, it's only later on, and then this is Steve Jobs says life is only understood backwards.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Oh, you can only connect dots backwards.

SPEAKER_07 39:15

When I look at my life and I look at where I came from, everything about the way I grew up has been preparing me for this moment. Winston Churchill calls it his finest hour. If you read the history like fine wine. You see, if you read the history of Winston Churchill, he was a drunk, a washed-out politician. But he says the day he walked as British Prime Minister in the height of World War II, he says, I felt as if everything that I've ever been through in life was preparing me for this moment. And this was going to be my finest hour. And the question for you and I is what will be your finest hour?

SPEAKER_06 39:58

And what would that look like?

SPEAKER_07 39:59

What would pay the price because everything you choose to do, there's school fees to be paid. And that school fees is you think it's suffering. No, it's preparing you so that you can be of value. Today I'm able to talk about things that I would have not been able to talk about had I not gone through my experiences. I left corporate, suffered through, oof, can't get work. You know, I mean, when you met me, I was just, you know, then I'll say, in fact, I could coach whoever wanted. I'll do it for you, man.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 40:28

Why? It looked like, and and during that point, you got kids that are going to school. Every month that bills have to be paid. So I want I don't want to glorify this and say it's easy. No. Every leader has to pay the cost. The cost. And your cost will be different from my cost. Some people, you've got to pull your kids out of private school.

SPEAKER_06 40:53

That's the cost.

SPEAKER_07 40:54

Because the purpose is more important than anything else. Some I know people where their family is completely broke down. Sometimes, some people, you know, you got divorced and you thought it was the end of the world. But that became the pressure cooker that then brought out the real diamond in you. So you look back and you say, thank God that dude left me. Because if he never did, I would not be where I am. Then some of you got into business with someone and they chowed your money. And you had to start as fresh. But it was that thing that actually sent you on the track. Some people it's an accident. Some people it's a sickness. Some people it's a death of someone you loved. The point is that nature uses pain to direct us towards our purpose. So at the end of the day, no one can ever say, I never knew. You know. Most of you listen to us today. You know what you're supposed to do. But every time you look at it, you eh, it's gonna be expensive, man. So you're not yet ready to pay the price. Now, let me round this off in an interesting way.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:08

I've often said to people, you need to know whether you are called or you are chosen.

SPEAKER_06 42:13

Wow. Let's unpack that. Cold versus chosen.

SPEAKER_07 42:18

If you are called, you can look at your purpose and decide you're not gonna do it. And God will leave you alone or mother nature will leave you alone. If you are chosen, you don't have a choice, chief. That thing will pursue you into your grave. And this is very important. So some of you are suffering. You are trying this, you are trying that, and you now you're even going shabiy or linga, and you're thinking the younger is gonna so. No, no. It when when you see your life, just everything is falling apart. Take a step back, sit down. What is mother nature trying to tell me? What is the universe trying to say? What is God trying to tell me? Because all the trauma and drama in your life is pointing to one thing, your purpose. There is a whole world of human beings whose very lives are dependent on you walking into your purpose.

SPEAKER_06 43:22

Yeah. There's attachments. You've got to step into it in order for you to attract all the bees for the mango. You have to be the mango.

SPEAKER_07 43:32

Here's the joy of this. In the book Become Yourself, I talk about this.

SPEAKER_06 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:37

If you do not become yourself, because you see, you are not given your purpose, and then you must suffer by yourself. Oh, I wish I had time to, you know, get excited, you know. You know, on a jump down. There are helpers who are also created, waiting for you to step into your To become. And the moment you do, and all of us have had that experience. Have you ever met someone and they say, Where have you been? I've been, you are exactly what I need. The same person has met you before. When you were not in your purpose, they probably didn't even greet you. They didn't even because you see, when you are not in your purpose, your helpers can't recognize you. Purpose seems to, it annoys you. It gives you a fragrance that only your helpers can smell. And then you gotta get a phone call. Here's my case in point. So I leave corporate in 2011. 2012 is a nightmare. I can't get a single gig. I remember my dad died in 2012. I didn't have money to go home to bury my father. That's how bad the situation was. Yet I was talking about I'm in my purpose. I come back after my father's funeral and I go through a meditation and prayer period. By December of 2012, I had gotten an email from the United States of America, from the Million Dollar Roundtable, asking me to come and speak in India at one of their conferences covering the entire Asian countries. So in January of that year, I go to India and I do the speech. From that point, I get invited to go speak in Dubai. Then I go and speak at the international conference, the Million Dollar Roundtable, in Philadelphia. From Philadelphia, I get invited to go speak in Canada. From Canada, I get invited in Jamaica. From Jamaica, I'm back in and then I went, I even went as far as Beirut, Lebanon. Now, if you sit here, how many of you are sitting here thinking, one day, I'd like to go to Beirut? What I'm trying to say, I'm just a village boy from Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. I find myself within the sense of family. In fact, when I went to Jamaica, I even addressed the cabinet of Jamaica. What I'm trying to say is this is that when you walk into your purpose, America will find you. You don't need to find if you're in your purpose, the right places will find you. Now I didn't go there because I'm special. I went there because there are people who need what I have. So the market, remember the mango the mango story? The market will find you if you just walk into your purpose.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Into your purpose, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 46:32

Now, but it's not easy. It's gonna cost you. And that's the danger of this is the cost of leadership. The danger of this is that you might then run out of steam. That's where that's where conviction is required. Because it keeps you there. The one thing I want to say about leadership is this you can't have leadership without compassion. Because you you you you cannot transform people you don't care about. You can't. And here's compassion for me. A biblical story. Moses is taking the children of Israel to the desert, to the promised land. People are difficult, guys. And anyone in leadership knows what I'm talking about. People are difficult. And Moses has had his own breakdown. Get yourself a cotton leadership call because I deal with these things. At one point, he says to God, kill me. Right? Where I get it fascinating is where God says to Moses, step aside. I'm going to kill these people and raise a new nation. Let me show you leadership. Moses stands between the people and God. Compassion. And he says, No, Lord.

SPEAKER_06 47:47

This is not what I meant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 47:48

No, you can't do that. If you do that, everyone will say you failed to take your people to the promised land. You must love the people. Now, compassion is not softness. No, no, no. It's the kind of caring for people that also requires them to rise up and be productive. It's the kind of caring that that raises standards. It's the kind of caring that, if necessary, it's compassion. It's almost like a parent and a child. When you wake up your five-year-old to go to crash in the middle of winter, what are you doing? For me, that's compassion and action.

SPEAKER_06 48:37

You're actually raising the standards.

SPEAKER_07 48:38

You know. And you're putting discipline. You're teaching that child, but where you are going.

SPEAKER_06 48:42

Yes. You will have you might have to.

SPEAKER_07 48:44

So compassion doesn't mean uh, no, let her get away with whatever she does. No, no, I hope I care enough about you to punish you if it's necessary.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 48:53

And I care enough about you to fire you.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah. If necessary.

SPEAKER_07 48:56

But I'm doing it out of compassion. Compassion. It's that thing. My father used to beat us up. And I remember my father beating us up and then crying tears, saying that this hurts him more than is to say, yeah, all right, until I became a father. And any parent here will tell you when you punish your kids, it hurts you. But you you love them too much to let them get away. So a manager or a leader who loves you, who has compassion, will not allow you to sit and waste your potential. They are going to stretch you. And as soon as you achieve that target, they'll stretch you. Stretch you again, yeah. To you, it might look like they hate you. It's like ultimately my final conversation with Alan Gray about leaving Alan Gray. And I remember my boss saying to me, Max, it's very clear that you have found your purpose. And if we keep you here, we're only gonna limit what you are able to do.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:57

So it makes more sense. Why don't you set your own vehicle? And then you'll become your first customer. That for me was leadership.

SPEAKER_06 50:05

Yeah. Yeah. Allowing you to go. Let's, as we wrap up the conversation, right? I think it's been an insightful conversation. Um, you know, full, it's it's rich. I mean, um, talking to you all the time, Max, it gets me in awe. It gets me thinking um, you know, um about leadership, about myself, right? As I lead myself first before I can even lead other people. Let's talk about their African leadership model. And yet, this is African rising leadership. So, and the nice thing is we've got someone who grew up in Zimbabwe, who now stays in South Africa, who's traveled the world, traveled in other African countries as well. What does the model of African leader look like? And because I think it's easy to inherit, you know, leadership models that are from the European countries and et cetera. But what is it about African context that makes our nuance different?

SPEAKER_07 50:58

The way to look at leadership in Africa, in fact, leadership in Africa has been a disaster. And I I say that with a heavy heart. It's been a disaster in our politics, it's been a disaster disaster in in corporate. And and and it's it hasn't been a lack of education, it's been an identity problem. You see, when you see how she's running the show, and you imitate her, your identity does not relate with her. Identity is who you believe you are, what you stand for, what your values are. These things anchor you. Now, if you want to do anything that's against your identity, it'll never work. You and I were in corporate. You will remember many times we sat in strategic sessions. We knew what was wrong. We came up with a strategy to address it. We went back to the office and didn't do anything. The problem wasn't strategy, the problem was leadership identity. As long as what is in your strategy is not aligned with your identity, you're not gonna do it. Now, if we want to reclaim our leadership in Africa, the best place to start is Ubuntu. Because Ubuntu does not just become an African thing, it becomes a humanity thing. I am because we are. And so everything I do is building a legacy for the people. It's about service, it's not about me. Working outside your life. What we have in Africa is about self-service. It's not leadership, it's self-service. And you see that with our politicians. And you can see that they have a leadership crisis because once they get in, they want to come out. So their real identity is in the title they hold. A real leader couldn't care less about title. In fact, great leaders don't care what you call them.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 53:15

And if you go into the village back in the day, I mean, this thing of presidents with motorcades and whatever, that's a new thing. In a typical African village, the king did not have a procession of people protecting him from his own people.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Why?

SPEAKER_07 53:30

In fact, it was easy in the village to walk to the king to go and report that you know things are not well. So so remember, when we start to want to developing, and that's why I love the work you are doing in Africa Rising, is that we need to start developing leaders from an African perspective. And the anchor of that is going to be umtu gumtu gabantu. I am because we are. That for me is the essence of African leadership that says if we're going to build an Africa that's that that's gonna tap into the potential of the African people, we're going to have to have leaders who are focused on others, not themselves. And so there's a soul searching that needs to take place among leaders. Who am I? Why am I here? And how is my family different because I was born? How is my community different because I was born? And how is my country different because I was born? And ultimately, how is Africa different before because I was born? And of course, the fifth thing is how is the world a better place because I was born? Because we came to make this world a better place. Let me quote your own people.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 55:14

Wazalu. You were born, you ate, you died, and you died. That would be the writing on most people's tombstones if we don't discover the thing that we were born to do. It must matter, guys, that you were born. It must matter that you lived. And you know, the joy of life is God created each one of us already equipped for our purpose. The thing that's left is to pay the price, to bring out the gold within you. So you know, you dig diamond. It doesn't come as a clean diamond. No, it must be put under pressure, yes, heat, and then the purity comes out. And so I hope that those who are listening to me and are excited about the concept of leadership are willing to pay the price because leadership and pain are one thing. But pain is not negative. I know you make it negative, but pain is not negative. Pain is the price you are willing to pay for something you are you believe in. Think about a mother. She has the first child and she says, never again.

SPEAKER_06 56:28

A year later.

SPEAKER_07 56:29

Another one.

SPEAKER_06 56:30

A year later. And another one.

SPEAKER_07 56:31

And another one. And that's for me. Is the so the point is that the temporary pain of leadership must not stop you from birthing your fruits. There you are.

SPEAKER_06 56:44

Birthing your fruit.

SPEAKER_07 56:44

Just like a mother. It's painful now, and you admit, hey, I don't want to do this. Tomorrow you wake up, the burden kicks you in again and you go. And you say, but you said you'll never do that again. Yeah, but you do it. That for me is leadership. Yeah. To get up every morning, face the face the drama, face the pain. Get to a point where you enjoy the pain. And maybe let me close on this point.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 57:10

If you choose to play rugby, you can't complain that someone is punching you in the scrum. You know, and they go.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 57:18

There's a lot of things that happens underneath there. So you see these guys bleeding. But have you noticed rugby players? They'll be bleeding. There's an excitement. Yeah. You chose the game that you play. So you chose the purpose that you are in. Some of you chose to be teachers. You are never gonna make a million rand a year being a teacher.

SPEAKER_06 57:41

But you chose it.

SPEAKER_07 57:42

But you chose it. So you take what go what comes with it. I look at a person who teaches grade one. I would be traumatized. But you know, look at this. They love their work. 20 years later, they still remember the child. That is the power of purpose. And so let's choose. No, let's just embrace our purpose. But with it, and let's not just want to be on the podiums. Let's enjoy the pain and the journey. Because ultimately, as you see the fruits of your labor, you are going to look back and say, um, I have lived. I have lived a good life. Closing on the mango tree. You know what happens to the mango tree? It produces mangoes. Then do you remember as a child trying to get the mango at the top? What did you do? You got a stick and you beat the tree for its mango. Let me tell you about leadership and purpose. Sometimes the people you're trying to help.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 58:54

But the joy you have is in giving of yourself. And Paul says, I'm like a drink offering and I'm being poured out. And one of my favorite uh motivational speakers says that live full and die empty.

SPEAKER_06 59:14

Live full and die empty. That's where we end our conversation today. I've got nothing to add. I mean, um I've I've journeyed with with Max for a number of years now. I know the quality of the work that he does. I know the research that goes into it. And I know the anointing that comes with you. I mean, once someone steps into next to you, automatically they you you just overflow, right? Um it it truly tells that you are definitely walking into your purpose. How do people reach you? People that want to be mentored, coached, and and and what processes, where where can we find you?

SPEAKER_07 59:48

You can't hide it.

SPEAKER_06 59:54

Definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_07 59:55

Uh you know, Neil Achtbeer. Okay, 082 461 7779. I'm sure they'll put it on there. You can also get me on social media or Maximo.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

Maximile. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:08

And I've recently started a YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

Oh, wow, we love that. We love that.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:14

And and I'm posting now daily. So both day, every day. We got five minutes, uh and it's all leadership. Yeah. It's all the different um and and that's nice because I get to speak about little things as they come up. So, you know, join. Um, reach out to me, please. Don't be sure. You know, sometimes when people see you on stage or on a platform, they they begin to assume that you're unreachable. Uh, you know, please reach out. Send me a WhatsApp, send me an email.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:43

Uh, you know, definitely put it in Messenger on the on the bio or on the write app on YouTube.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:49

Let's let's let's let's let's let's let's help you get to where you need to go. Because if I help you, I help myself.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:57

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:58

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:01

That was Max Moyo. Until we see each other again on the next episode. Bye.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:06

Now you can turn on the air con. Jesus.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:21

Thank you for listening and thank you for tuning in. So we are available on the podcast, Apple Podcasts, or any other streaming podcast. Please do comment, subscribe on both the podcast as well as our YouTube channel, which is Africa Rising Leadership. Until we see you again next time. Thank you.