S4 E15: Thermal Optics UPDATE with Dark Night Outdoors

This week we are teeing up the Wisconsin Open Season Sportsman's Expo that is coming up March 27-29th in Wisconsin Dells. Jamie and I will be there in Booth #820 with thermals to check out. In this episode we are giving you a rundown of what you should look for and a few things happening in the thermal world. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:22

What's up, guys? Predator Podcast season four. We're back for another episode today. Pretty excited about this one. As you guys know, if you've listened to the show for any period of time, uh, my relationship with Dark Knight Outdoors is a strong one. And coming up here in a couple of weeks, we are going to be at the open season sportsmen's expo in Wisconsin Dells, Dark Knight Outdoors, and myself. So we thought we'd give you guys a little bit of rundown. What is new? What do you need to know about? And some things to look forward to seeing at the show. Uh, and I have one and only Jamie Hoffman from Dark Knight Outdoors on today. So, Jamie, thank you for coming on with me tonight.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

No problem, Drew. I appreciate uh you having me back on for sure. It uh I always enjoy doing the podcast with you here. And uh uh yeah, like you mentioned, uh, we're gonna be up at that uh Wisconsin expo here uh in a couple weeks. And I look forward to that too. I think you got me involved in that a couple years ago, and and uh I really enjoy uh that and uh all the people up in Wisconsin and even the people that drive from further away to uh come to that show. That show's been really awesome. So yeah, it's uh yeah, it's a lot of fun, and uh I always enjoy uh uh seeing you up there and uh uh go from there.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yeah, we uh are looking forward to it. Always a good crowd. And you guys will have to stop in, check out the new thermals. If you're in the market for something, uh you know, you'll have a good opportunity to check it out, maybe buy it if we have it on hand and hear from Jamie about some of the ins and outs about them. If you don't hear it today, you can ask those questions that you might have, uh look at things side by side, and uh it's just helpful in my eyes. So Jamie, let's let's uh let's kick it off. I know Rick says a few uh new helmet mounted items uh first on the docket here. And uh can you tell us a little bit about those?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, well, uh a lot of things uh people ask us on a regular basis is hey, what'd you see at Shot Show? You know, yeah, and uh so we did go to Shot Show uh this year, and uh, you know, it was uh as usual, bigger than ever, and uh lots of new things coming out at um, you know, Shot Show. Um, all of the companies had new things to to show and demonstrate, and uh we got a chance to look at those and uh obviously kind of you know give our opinions on them and kind of go from there. Um, some of the products we do have in stock now. Um uh actually most of them we do. Uh there are a few of them uh still lingering out there that uh just haven't come uh to fruition yet or uh gotten shipped into us yet. But uh um Rick's has actually come out with uh something pretty interesting uh in the helmet mounted area, which is the stride uh st3 light and the st6 light. Um the the st3 obviously is a 384 and the st6 is a 640 version. Um they're um great units for for being helmet mounted, and the most amazing thing with these uh new um uh helmet mounted monoculars is the price is pretty amazing. So uh the st3 light uh came out at a thousand dollars, um which we've never ever seen uh helmet mounted uh thermals uh out at this price um ever. So um and the st6 uh comes in at uh$19.99, so uh sub$2,000 for a great uh helmet mounted monocular. Um, a lot of people out there are are familiar with the iRay uh RH25 V2, uh very, very popular unit. Um, is this or either one of these units, the RH25 V2? Nope, they sure aren't. Um they are really more of a dedicated uh uh thermal for being helmet mounted. Um they cannot be like the RH25 V2, you know, used as a standalone uh thermal or a uh clip-on thermal. Uh it is uh it is really more of just a dedicated helmet mounted monocular. Now I've had a few people you know ask me too if they could use it as a handheld, and sure, yeah, you could use it as a handheld if you want to. Um it's it's small, and when you use it as a handheld, remember it's a 1x base mag uh designed for uh helmet mounting. So that 1x base mag is gonna be, and you can zoom them up to a 2x course. Um, one of the things to point out on the the Stride ST3 is that there is no thermal focus uh for that. So it is just uh set at an infinite range, kind of like your um so just like the uh pocket uh K3 or the K2 uh does not have a uh you know focus for the thermal on the front of it. Um, you know, that's one of the the drawbacks to the ST3 and obviously why it's quite a bit cheaper than the the ST6, but the ST6 it does have a uh forward focus on it uh for the thermal and um obviously also for the the uh lens as well, too. So um they do also have um their old Rix stride that has been since you know retired, if you will, or discontinued. Um, it did come with a bridge. Um, the new ones do not come with the bridge, but we do have the bridges in stock. So if you like the Rix style bridge, it's a little bit different. It is definitely a single monocular style bridge, but it it can slide side to side uh for your um, you know, if you want it on your left eye or right eye, extremely easily. And then it's got some nice micro adjustments to it so that you can get it positioned perfectly in front of your eye and uh go from there. But uh uh the most amazing thing to me is is is how far these thermals have come, uh image quality-wise, and then also price getting cheaper, right? Um, you can now get into you know a great helmet setup uh with like a good quality Team Wendy helmet um for$2,000 to$3,000, just depending on if you want the ST3 or the ST6 and go from there. Um, you know, the the other big thing with with doing helmet mounted uh monocular setups is people do get confused with uh you know the different style mounts and so forth. And we do stock all of that stuff. And here at Dark Knight Outdoors, if you do want to do, you know, uh or you want a complete setup shipped to you, we're able to do that right here and ship out a completed unit. Um, even if you want to buy the components, we can send you all the correct components so that you can get it mounted up properly, and uh you can assemble it yourself however you want to do it and go from there. So right. Um so is it is it compatible with like the Wilcox mount or it is, it uses the same dovetail style uh mount, and it really does come with that. What's that?

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Is it similar to the one that the IRA uses?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Uh it's it's exactly like the one that the IRA uses, correct. Yeah, um, it and it is adjustable, it does have three different uh slots in the top of it where you can slide it back and forth and go from there. The one thing I noticed that was a little bit weird is that some of the threading on the units is different sizes, but I have had uh success go going out to the local hardware store and just getting a screw that will fit uh that size and just moving it around, unfortunately doesn't come with it, but um, which might might be a little bit of a miss. But um for the most part, it's a very adjustable unit. And I I do feel that they're gonna be a very popular uh product uh from Rick's uh moving forward, just based off of the prices of them and so and so forth. I mean, heck, who wouldn't want to get into? I mean, you can get into a helmet setup now for almost as cheap as a uh handheld monocular, which is fantastic. So um, yeah, and then you know, another thing that uh has has come out recently from um you know the show is the Rick's Leap L12R, which we actually had um out before we went to Shot Show, but it was technically a SHOT Show release. Um still very similar quality to the L3 and the L6R that is out there now. Um, they did make a few improvements to this one, though. It does have a 2560 by 2560 round display, and you know, we always talk about everybody getting all wrapped up in the numbers and the the stats and the you know everything, everybody getting confused. Basically, the thing to know on that is it does have a it's it's about two and a half times clearer display than most thermals out there do, but they there is definitely starting to be more and more thermals on the market with that 2560 by 2560 round display. So um, but it's got a great display in it. Uh, they did finally add an internal battery to the unit, unlike the L3 and the L6Rs. Um, when you do want to change your battery, it does shut the scope off and you do have to restart it. Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. Um, is it a little bit annoying? It kind of is. Um, but for the most part, um, they did add that internal battery in there. Um, and and again, it's a two power to six power ocular, you know, ocular zoom, um, which you know um is is the same for if you look at the uh not picks um you know s70 or that I'm sorry, the the S50R. Um, you know, it's gonna be a two power to six power as well, um and and stuff like that. And I said S50, it's S60R. Um but all the leaps now have a LRF built into the to the lens. Um, unfortunately, they decided to get rid of the scopes that don't have the laser range finder anymore. So those have been discontinued um and and go from there. So um, you know, it does have a 60 hertz refresh rate, which is a nice addition to that particular scope. Um, however, uh they did come out with a price that's a little bit higher than some of the other competitive scopes out there on the market. Um, you know, at the time that it released, the NockPix S60R was, you know, um, you know, 7,000 or$6,999, and they came out at$68.99. So$100 cheaper. And I I I would have to give the head nod to the Nockpicks S60R, even at the higher price. Um, for an extra$100, I just feel like the build quality is probably a little bit better in the S60R, um, and uh probably more than just a little better. Um, but um also the the NockPix S60R just this last week lowered their price down to$64.99. So now you can get the Nockpicks S60R cheaper than you can even get the RIX Leap L12R. So, you know, um I at that point I have to kind of say it's a no-brainer to probably look at the the the Nockpicks S60R. Um but uh um another uh new addition out there was the DBH D12. Uh this is now more your compact style scope versus the RICS Leap is your tube style scope. Um, you know, I get the question all the time what scope should I go with? And you know, it all depends. If you're using a bold action rifle, I always do recommend a tube style scope. The DBH series is one of those that's a little bit of an anomaly, though, because that scope does work well on a bold action rifle just because it has an unbelievable amount of relief, eye relief on it, so that you can still see through the scope pretty well, even though you're further back from it. So uh, but the DBH D12 was obviously, like I said, a new release out there 1280 uh 3x base mag 75 millimeter lens. This thing is not a small boy, man. It is it's a big boy sitting up on top of a rifle. It's big, it's a little bit on the heavy side. Um, but again, with the DBHs, um, they do have the ability to marry a Kestrel to them. So for guys that are looking to, you know, shoot at extremely long distances. Um I've got you know some of my own customers looking at shooting coyotes at 900 to uh 1100 yards, and seems a little crazy to me, but you know, at the end of the day, um, you know, that is it's it's a great scope to be able to do that with and then marry the Kestrel up to it. The one thing about this one versus the S75R is this one does come in with a 50 hertz refresh rate, so a little bit different there. Um uh but the 50 hertz and the 60 hertz, I I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't let that be a um, you know, uh uh it's not a deal breaker, you know, one way or the other. Um, I don't really notice it too much. Um, but you know, 60 hertz is definitely better, especially if you're trying to lead, you know, running, you know, targets and stuff like that. Um and you know, the the the one downfall to me uh with the DBH or the compact style series of scopes is that there's none of them out there right now that have the ocular zoom. Um, and the ocular zoom is where you can zoom in and not lose any resolution because you're zooming in on the screen itself. Um, but um, you know, uh, you know, at the same time, uh it's just a digital only style zoom. So when you do zoom in with the compact style scopes, it's it's going to you know um degrade the image as you zoom in and uh go from there. So uh one of the other things that we noticed with the the DBHD12 and and didn't notice it when we were you know at SHOT Show or anything like that, it's more of something that came about uh afterwards is that the typical type C power port on the side of the scope, it does not, you are not able to add like an external power source to it and um power the scope. Um so for some reason the power port on the side of it does not work. And when I contacted Rick's about it, they seemed to not know it, and but then also had a couple different, you know, explanations that it could not power the 1280, you know, sensor, which we know is not right because it does actually you know power it on other scopes and so forth. So I'm not exactly sure, you know, um why it does not work, but the only thing that the port does on the side of the DBHD12 is it will uh actually trans transfer data, um, which most people are probably gonna use the app to transfer the data anyway. Um kind of leaves that port on the side of the scope um to be kind of useless in my opinion, and go from there. And I do miss the fact that I can't add an external power pack onto the side of it for those long hunts, especially if you get into a two-day coyote contest or what have you. Um, you know, I'm really missing my external uh battery pack at that point and go from there.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

So right, you gotta have four other batteries to put in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

And it does run off of the two 18650 batteries. So if you want to carry two other 18,650 batteries around with you, well then there you go. You know, um you're gonna carry the batteries and the weight one way or the other. Um, just depends on where you want to put it um and go from there. But uh one one product that they did come out with, uh, I I'm not really gonna call it a shot show release because I it should have been released a long time ago, is the Titan T3. And some people are probably very familiar with the Titan T6 because it got released quite a while ago, and then we waited for the 384 version to come out and never came out, never came out, and well, now it's here. And um, you know, it's it is the 384 uh version of the Titan T6. Um, but man, I gotta tell you, I really like this unit. Um, you know, is it the ultimate in quality that it might be missing a few spots, but man, the price that it came out at with having a laser range finder and a 384 sensor in it. Um, it looks great when you look through it. Uh, they actually improved what I call the one-handed operation um because that was supposed to be a big feature of the T6. The problem with the T6s is the focus wheel was so hard to turn that you almost had to use two hands to turn the focus. Um, they have fixed that on the the um uh T3, the 384 version. Um, it's nice, it's easy to use. You can use it as a one-handed um operation uh for your focus, for your front focus. Um, and again, it's just a great monocular uh or scanner, if you will, for the price of$15.99. Um, it's pretty darn hard to beat. Um, anything else out there that I've seen that compares image quality is more up in that$19.99 range. So um I really, really like that unit. If you say you have to have an LRF on um, you know, the unit, and if you can get over slightly weird shape that it is, um it um, you know, that's gonna come down to personal preference. So yeah. So it uh but I but I have been pretty impressed with the Titan T3. So that's one to keep an eye out there for, and I don't think a whole lot of people really are, you know, too enthused with it because the T6 was a little bit, and in my opinion, maybe a little bit of a flop for the price that it came out at and stuff like that. But the Titan T3 is definitely a winner, in my opinion. So um, um, but yeah, uh, you know, after that, uh, we went down to the NockPix booth and took a look at uh everything that NockPix has to offer out there, and it looks like uh NockPix for this year was focusing on the the 1280 side of things, more of the high-end um, you know, uh scopes, monoculars, binoculars, that type of thing. They did come out with the new Vista S50R, uh, which is a 1280 2x base mag uh monocular. And you know, it is kind of the big brother to the Vista H50R, um, which is going to soon be discontinued. Um, we are actually kind of uh running today, right now, through our last run of those uh thermal monoculars, and once they're gone, from what I've been told now they are going to be discontinued. So um, but the H50R was a 6404X base mag versus the Vista S50R 1280 2x base mag. And so for everybody that knows how the digital you know magnification works, everybody's like, well, why would I buy a 1280 for the cost? Um, and and a 2x base mag when I can get the the H50R for significantly less money because we do have that blowout price on them right now, um, you know, and and just get one at 4x. And I basically got the same thing because by the time I zoom that 2x base mag up to 4, I'm down to a 640 anyway. Well, you know, I do get that. Um, but the one thing that I can tell you is is versatility, right? The the versatility of having the ability to go down to a 2x base magnification makes it so that if you want to use it for coon hunting, if you want to be able to use it for hog hunting, um it's it's definitely doable. Um, then if you want to turn around and go coyote hunting with it, you got the best of both worlds. And a lot of people will say, Well, how is that? Like what what's the difference, right? You know, um, that 2x base mag is going to give you a lot larger field of view. And uh this is one of those questions. Yeah, big field of view. So the the the biggest question that I get all the time is is what's the difference with a 2x and a 4x? Why is one better than the other? Well, the higher you go in magnification, the better image quality you will get at distance. Okay. However, it also gives you a much narrower field of view. So um again, if you go the other way and you go to a light base mag or like a 2x base mag, you're gonna get a lot larger field of view, but probably Not as clear of image at X, you know, uh further distances and so forth. But the reason I like that 1280 is because you can do a 2x, it is a 1280 resolution at that point. Um, it's a nice wide field of view. Again, the the 1280 sensor is is being used now not only for the ultimate and clarity, but also to give it more versatility and giving you that wider field of view. And then if you want to go out and and zoom it up to 4x base mag, uh you're down to a 640. And then if you want to go up to an eight, you know, eight power base mag, then you're you know, uh down to a 320, right? Um, but it's just it adds versatility to the unit. Um, unfortunately, that 1280 sensor is a little bit on the expensive side, um, pops in there at 44.95 or 44.99. Uh but I gotta tell you, it does have a great battery system. It is a little bit bigger of a unit, it is a little bit heavier. Um, but I love the battery. It does come with two batteries, and they are a proprietary battery, which I'm not always the the most in favor of. But with my vistas, uh, you know, and about 30 degree, you know, temperatures. Um, you know, I'd like to say that I was out in colder weather than that this year, but uh the older I get, uh, the more fair weather hundred I get. So um, but long story short, um, it it does last for about seven and a half hours at about 30 degrees in temperature, so quite a bit longer than the other batteries out there. But what else makes it a great battery system to me is that there are no extra chargers, there's no extra cords, there's no not like if you're traveling around, it does have a type C USB port right in the side of the battery. You can charge it up inside the monocular, you can charge it outside of the monocular and just plug directly into the battery with your cell phone charger that's already in your truck. You can leave one battery in the truck charging while you're out using the unit. You can come back to the truck, swap them out. Um, it just you don't need to have any more than two batteries, and it's just a great system um all the way around on the batteries. So um, great unit. Um, I really like that one uh for sure. It's it's gonna be a huge hit as long as people can swallow the$44.99 price um and go from there. It's not for everybody, but again, it is a very versatile unit. It uh um and then uh they also came out with the S50R Quest, which would be the binocular version of the Vista, which is the monocular or the you know scanner version. Um again, great unit. It's just like the other Quest S um S series uh uh or I'm sorry, the the other Quest 50 uh monoculars that are out there already, um, or I should say binoculars, yeah, but it is a 1280 2x base mag. Um, it again uh it does have an 18650 battery and an internal battery that uh um goes with that one. And and and probably the most impressive part about it is it does have two separate screens, one for each eye. And a lot of people are like, well, what does that mean? I what what good does that do me? Well, everybody's eyes, whether you know it or not, probably are not equal in and being able to focus, right? So when you have two separate screens, you can individually adjust for each eye. If you're 2020 in one eye and you're you don't have as good a vision in the other eye, you can adjust that so that it never really is blurry and it comes that the whole image comes together better for you than than ever. And it's one of those things that I don't think people really appreciate unless you have really uh fought to be able to uh binoculars in before. Because some people say I hate binoculars, I never get them focused. That might be the reason why, right? Um but again, uh the simplicity of use on the quest, how small they are, how lightweight they are. I just absolutely love them. Um, even the focus and the zoom wheels that is on the bridge. So it is actually like a little wheel that you can, you know, operate with one hand. You don't have to hold them with both hands, you can hold it with one, you can, you know, adjust the focus, you can adjust the zoom uh with the with it in the bridge. They're easy to turn. Um, man, just a great unit all the way around. Um, I really struggled to find any other binocular out there that I like better than a quad. So um, again, just a fantastic unit. So um they also did come out with a few more uh monoculars uh in the Lumi series, but basically uh the only thing to know there is they just added more units with a laser range finder in them. They didn't really come out with anything new in that, you know, uh arena, uh, but just added the laser range finder to more of those units. Um, the Lumi, again, a more smaller compact unit, runs off of an 18650 battery. You're gonna have to change your batteries a little more often. But if you want that super small, compact, fit in your hand, fit in your front pocket, uh type of monocular. Um, and the best way to describe that one is is it's it's the size of just a regular laser range finder that you hold in your hand and uh go from there. Um, but that's really pretty much all that uh knockpicks had to offer, um, with the exception of we they did showcase at Shot Show the Mate 1280. Um, the Mate 1280 is a clip-on. Um, some people are familiar with the Mate 640 that they had out. Um, this one does have a laser range finder built into it, which is is something that they did not have before. Um, and again, it's a 1280. So it's it's it was a fantastic looking unit. I do think the reason why it has not been released yet, that seems to me that they're probably still working out some kinks on making sure that things work right so that when it does finally get released, that there's a positive consumer experience with it. Um, a lot of people ask me why does this stuff release over in in in other countries before we see it here? And that is the primary reason why. Nobody wants to get into a situation where you know you get the product and then there's all kinds of issues and everybody have to end up sending them back. Not only is it expensive for the the distributors, but it's it's it's also not a very good consumer experience. So um one thing that was kind of neat that we did see on the the main 1280 is that they actually had like a ring that went on the back where your your focus lever was, and then when you actually turn the focus, it actually brought the the data on the screen. Uh, it actually brought it closer together so that when you know you zoom in, you don't lose the data on the screen, kind of like an ocular zoom does. So that was a really cool feature, but I think that might be something that they're working on perfecting as well, too. So um that was that was uh a neat deal. And I do think that the Mate 1280 probably, you know, based off of everybody's best guess, um, hopefully it will be out before the start of the next hunting season, uh, in you know, talking October, November time frame. So hopefully we get to see something like that by then. So it uh um pulsar, um, again, um, I think we've talked about it year over year. Pulsar's been a little bit of a struggle out there. Um, they've been having a tough time finding their way. Seems like uh uh knockpics and rix and some of the other newer companies out there have found out found some pretty innovative ways to come to market and uh have uh kind of surpassed Pulsar in the customer service and um innovative department. Um, they did come out with a couple new units uh this year, uh one being uh the trail three. So they had the trail one, that was the one that everybody had, you know, point of impact issues for forever. They came out with the trail two after that. The trail two never really could recover from the the trail one issues. Um, and uh now we're on to the trail three. Um little confused on why they chose the trail name again, um uh based off of past experience, but uh they did come out with an XR50. Uh it's a 640 by 480, it's a 640 by 480, not a 640 by 512 like some of the other units are. Um again, it's a 3x base mag, and the 18 millikelvin um net D rating that it came out with is just it's all right. It's interesting. There's other scopes out there that are already better than that. Um, and then there is also another variant that is the 384 version, uh, the XQ50, and it comes in as a three and a half power base mag. It is a 15 millikelvin uh scope. So a little bit of difference there. Uh, one's got the a little bit will do a little bit better in the high humidity than the other one. Um, but I I guess the one notable thing that I noticed on these particular units is that they are marketing them to operate in extreme temperatures. Um, most of your thermal scopes are rated down to negative four. These were rated down to negative 25. So um if you are going out in extreme cold temperatures, I'd be honest with you, I haven't tested it out. I don't know if they really do work well in in negative 25 degree weather. Um, but uh they they do claim to have a little bit better resistance to you know the super cold weather out there um and go from there. And I'm probably gonna have to get you to uh test one out for us because I I don't have much interest in going weather anymore.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

So I don't want one, I don't want to go when it's that cold either.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

So it's uh uh one of the things that they did come up with on this unit is what they call automatic display deactivation, which it's just a sensor on the back side of the scope. I do think it's a cool feature. Um, we've been selling um you know shuttered eye cups for a long, long time uh for part of the purpose to you know keep the light from shining back on you. And that's exactly what this does is it will shut the screen off when your eyes not in it, um to you know uh prevent from shining back on you and and go from there. So um they also they they're boasting on this particular unit that it has 10 different shooting profiles and a hundred different zeroing distances, and that sounds interesting, but man, I tell you what, I don't know how I could have 10 different shooting profiles and a hundred different zeroing distances and even know what each one of them are.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

So I was gonna say, don't normally they have three, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Uh normally between three and five. Uh typically your ones that have five shooting profiles uh will have three different uh zeroing distances per profile. So that gives you more like 15. And then vice versa, if they have three, then they usually give you five zeroing distances, which still gets you to that 15. Um, it's just a different way to slice the pie. Um, that's interesting. But now the the 10 shooting profiles and 100 zeroing distances, I'm a little confused on how anybody would ever keep that straight. So I don't find that to be a great um, you know, additional feature, uh, or one that's very useful, if you will. Um, they did uh improve the display in this particular unit. It is a 1920 by 1080. Um, still not quite the quality of a 2560 display, um, but it is round. Um, and it is a 1920 by 1080 display. So, you know, um still a great unit. Um, the trails are one of those units that have taken an extremely long period of time to come out to the dealers since Shot Show. Um, so we have just recently gotten them in and we have not done a ton of testing with them yet. So, news to follow on those. Um, you know, if if we find that uh there's something uh really worth uh going after, we'll maybe do a follow-up uh with you and let you know that and kind of go from there. Um the only other thing uh it also looks interesting, it is a different looking unit. And at first it and and that's one thing I probably should have explained there too, is that it is a compact style unit. Uh Pulsar went away from the compact style unit several years ago.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

And Trail 2, really.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

With the Trail 2, yeah, and now they're coming back with saying, well, maybe that wasn't the greatest decision, uh, and coming out with a another compact style scope. Um I don't have one to to show you, but the um best way I can describe it is it is a mix between a compact style scope and a tube style scope. Um the one thing that it does have is it has a uh a dial up on top of it that I'm not real excited about. There's actually some buttons on the side of it, um stuff like that. I think that it's probably gonna cause more confusion with current users than what it would. If you're a new user and it's the first time you've used a thermal, I'm sure you probably get used to it. But um with the location of some of the dials and the buttons and stuff like that, I I think it could be a little bit of uh a bigger adjustment, if you will, uh for for current users. But uh um yeah, and and and and speaking of a lot of buttons, they came out with a symbiont. Um, and the symbiont is a binocular, but it is a multi-spectral uh binocular, and and a lot of people may not know what multi-spectral means, but it means that it does have two different types of night vision or um uh well night vision in it, and and it may be either digital night vision or thermal. So it this one's got both. Okay, so it's multi-spectral. So they're calling it day or night use. I hate that because you can use a thermal during the day or night, it doesn't matter. Um, right, but this one would have a color version to it, and then also it does have the digital night vision, which means it does have an IR light in it and so forth, um, and and stuff like that. It is big, it is a large unit. Um, I thought that when Pulsar came out with a new binocular, they would maybe take a few notes from the quest out there and maybe make it a little bit lighter weight, smaller and easier to handle. And they went the opposite direction, and it's actually bigger than a merger and um heavier. And holy moly, talk about a lot of buttons. Um, it has seven buttons on top of it. It is to me pretty confusing. Um there is a dial on top of it to adjust the menu. There is a slide switch for the IR light. There's two knobs to control the focus on and off switch. Um I'm sorry, there's two knobs to control the focus, and it's just a very complicated to use unit so far. Um, we have had a chance to play with them. Um I I definitely need to get a lot more time behind it in order to get used to it. Um, but again, any unit that I have to spend that much time trying to figure out frustrates me, to be honest with you. Um, and it does have a separate on-off switch. Um, so we're talking buttons glore here. There's buttons all over the place on this thing. Um, but ergonomically, the whole thing is just confusing. And um even the focus that they they did do dials like the quest does, but they put the dials so far back close to your eye that they're hard to, you know, ergonomically, they're just hard to access. Um the the tools that they did come out with, one's a DXT50. Uh, it is a 1280 unit. Um, but the millikelvin rating on it is not good. It's back all the way up to a sub-40 millikelvin. Um, it is a 2x basemag 50 millimeter lens. Um, I'm not I I and I personally have not had the time to check this unit out in adverse weather conditions, but just based off of the specs, it's probably not gonna be good. Um, they also do have the DXR50. Uh, the DXR50 is a 640 by 480, uh, 35 millikelvin. Again, not the best rating as far as humidity goes. Um, it's a 4X base mag. Um, the 4X base mag out of a 50 millimeter lens, I am a little bit concerned about as well. Too, it's going to be a very narrow field of view. Uh, even based off of their specs, it is a very narrow field of view. Um, the DXR50, I have not received one yet. We have gotten the DXT50s, but not the DXRs. So um waiting to see, you know, kind of what that one looks like. But based off of the specs, I think the 4X base mag is we've learned that the 4X base mag is uh there's a very limited market out there that really wants a 4X base mag. So um again, um, I will tell you the lens caps are nice. Um, I really do like the lens caps, and it's weird to geek out over lens caps, but uh they do have really nice lens caps that snap onto the front and they're easily to replace. Um uh and and they just they have a nice uh system there for the lens caps that that maybe even you know knock pics could could take notice on on their quest and maybe do something similar to that. So um, but yeah, I mean that's pretty much all the products that we saw, you know, at Shot Show. There, you know, was you know some other thermals there, but uh not all ones that we're really looking at at this point. Um, you know, as you know, a business owner, we have to take a look at, you know, are people offering as good a warranties and are they offering a product that is competitive uh in price and quality with what's already out there in the market? Um there are some things that I saw at Shot Show that I was impressed by by some of the new companies. Uh one of them that I think that we are we're gonna start carrying very soon is uh some of the DXT thermals. Um and go from there. The I'm sorry, the DNT, the DNTs. Um, but the DNT thermals, um, I was impressed with what I saw at Shot Show, and um I think they're gonna be they're not a premier thermal brand, um, but they do have some nice features to the DNTs and uh uh go from there. But uh that is is probably one of the the things that um you know I've been a little bit cautious about getting into until they get some of the kinks worked out on their thermals, also kinks worked out in their their customer service and so forth. The one thing that I I'm still a little bit leery of is you know uh not as good a warranty as some of the the other places and and so forth. So, but we're working through that, and um, you know, we'll let you know if we do decide to to bring those on full bore and and go from there. So it uh but more importantly than talking about you know new product that's out there on the market, which I know everybody wants to hear about. I totally get that, but uh I wanted to kind of go over just some of the questions that we get on a daily basis over and over. Now that we're going into the late spring and and and going into the summer months, um, you know, we always get you know all these phone calls, people asking us questions over and over. I know you probably get them as well, too, you know. Um, and and you know, one of the biggest ones is just, you know, is it worth buying a thermoscope now? You know, now that we're you know, hunting seasons for most states are starting to come to a close. Um, and you know, would you buy now or would you wait? You know, um, to be honest with you, I get that question even in the middle of the season. Is this a good time to buy? You know, when should I buy? When's the best time to buy? And I gotta tell you, I that's a really tough question. Um, you know, I don't have a crystal ball. Uh, I'm sure you don't either. If somebody out there does, please call me. I'll probably buy it from you. Yeah, you know, but uh, you know, it's just tough to know, you know, what is going to happen with these thermals. And, you know, we've even seen prices go up, we've seen prices go down. Um we've seen things get hard to get. You know, they may be popular, but they then become hard to to to actually acquire. You know, and it's just it's a it's a tough question to answer. You know, as I look around and and as everybody does in the news right now, there's, you know, tariffs are, you know, sometimes they're legal, sometimes they're illegal. There's world events out there like the the war with Iran right now. Fuel costs are going through the roof. You know, I just uh saw an article today that airline uh tickets are going through the roof because fuel costs have gone up when you know most of these products are being flown into the United States. So you know um you know what what's going to happen? I don't know. I wish I I had a great answer to that. The best answer I can give is that if you are the type of guy that needs a little bit more time to get acquainted with a thermal scope because it is more complicated than you know anything you know than just a day scope. You know especially with today's ballistic calculators and all that stuff there's a lot to get familiar with right so I do encourage people to buy now and um get familiar with it before the next hunting season. But I also will tell you if you're gonna be extremely upset that a scope goes on sale for$500 um or you know a cheaper price than what you paid for it before the season starts, then I got to say you need to wait uh because we just don't know what's going to happen. Now the the problem with waiting like I said prices could actually go back up. I I'll be honest with you I was uh uh blown away by the fact that uh you know knock picks lowered the price of the S60R to$64.99. Just absolutely blew me away. Right. I'm like you know I even called them and argued with them. I'm like why are you guys doing that? I mean it is arguably one of the best thermal scopes out there in the market and now it's even cheaper. You know um but I do think that even that particular scope could end up going back up in price um just based off of all the world events that are going on and so forth. So um once again if you're a guy that is going to value having your scope through the summer to be able to go out and get familiar with it, it is so much nicer to go out and get familiar with a scope when the weather's nice than um you know trying to do this all right before the season starts and you know then you're rushing and you're trying to get everything done before you you know uh want to go out and just relax and enjoy hunting um then you know now's the time to buy and and if not if you're more price conscious and you're you you would rather um wait and see what happens again these thermal manufacturers they don't let us know when they're gonna drop prices on stuff so um you know we get caught with it just as as much as is as the end user does as well too so um yeah I just don't don't really know how else to answer you know that question and and go from there other than uh that yeah no I agree I think uh the other thing too is if you're really that on the fence about it I would just get what you can afford so it doesn't you know hurt you that bad you know if you if you if you're really on the fence about it I encourage people just to get what they can afford and you can always upgrade at some point but yeah well and the biggest thing is too is if you don't know if it's the right time or not man give us a call we can give you all the updated information because information truly does change daily um I have no idea what email I'm gonna get from what manufacturer or phone call I'm gonna get yeah and things change right you know um nobody knows um so um it it is best just to give us a call and talk about it um you know and we can tell you I will tell you that in my experience if a thermoscope been out for a anywhere from eight months to a year and it hasn't changed in price since it was released it's probably getting close to being due for a price reduction of some sort um if it's a unit that just dropped in price chances are it's not going to go any any deeper in price anytime soon there's always exceptions to that rule and I know people have seen it both ways right but at the same time um you know if if there's a an older scope out there um and it hasn't had a price change on it it's probably about due but we can help walk you through that um and it's what we do every day is stare at these thermal scopes and study the prices on them and and uh we can kind of give you an idea if we feel that something's going to happen uh based off of what we hear from our reps and and so on and so forth. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Yeah that makes sense and uh I'll along with current events we've sort of had some events in the thermal industry lately that have kind of shook people up a bit uh and one of them being the Rick's battery recall can you uh tell us a little bit about that as much as we would all like to not have ever heard of the Rick's battery recall yep it it's a huge situation out there.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Um it's it's unfortunate uh so what Drew's talking about is on the 18650 batteries that uh rix has there's been a battery recall um a lot of people are pretty upset about it um I gotta tell you um it's a voluntary recall okay so what that means is is you can send it back if you want to you don't have to right um there have been some situations where a battery has overheated um there's been some situations where um one that I'm aware of that one of the batteries did explode okay um I've got to tell you though it's one out of thousands and thousands and thousands of batteries right to have one explode out of all of those it really makes me wonder what why they would do it even a voluntary recall right um but there then after that was some people bringing up oh I went to put my battery into my charger and it sparked and then they freak out right um a couple things wrapped around that um I will tell you in my shop alone I literally have thousands and thousands of 18650 batteries ready for sale we have them in every thermal scope that's in the packages right we have millions and millions of dollars worth of inventory in our shop all of it sits together and all of it has been there for eight years. Yeah I've never had a problem so I am not disparaging the issues that some other people have had um one of the other incidences that I I have been made aware of was that somebody had an 18650 battery in their pocket and it burned their leg. And I I would never want that to happen to me. It's just like having a hot hot casing run you know run down your shirt when you're at the range right um makes you jump a little bit but um you know the situation with some of this stuff is makes me wonder did the guy have a set of keys in his pocket and a lot of people say well what difference does that make well they're unprotected batteries right so and even if it's a protected battery doesn't matter um if the the two ends of them get contact with with uh keys that are dangling in your pocket or a big wad of keys it's gonna short out um so that is one thing that that I would highly you know um discourage is putting things like that in your pocket with with a bunch of change or keys or what have you the other situation with the battery that's sparked going into a charger um you know if the battery the 18650 battery the outside of the shell of that battery is the negative side of the battery the uh top of it is the positive side and if it's got a button on it if it's a button top or a flat top doesn't matter but the top side of that battery is the positive side if the uh plastic on the outside of that battery gets damaged or peeled off or anything like that you do run the risk of it getting shorted a lot easier than if it does have an intact plastic wrap around it. And in the situation of putting it into a charger and it's sparking the only way that that that could have happened is if you had a um the top of it you know the plastic started to come off of it or what have you so you know um I think the whole battery recall was you know um in my opinion a little bit premature but um you know I do think Ricks has taken the high road and said listen we're we'll take them back if you want us to we'll change them out I I personally never seen a battery uh go bad but I will tell you that if you ever have a battery that you know uh starts to swell um maybe it starts to get hard to put into your your thermal or what have that's a pretty good indication of a swollen battery don't use it right throw it away and grab the next one um these batteries are anywhere from$29.99 a pair um maybe up to 30 or maybe even$50 a battery right but it's not worth using so um if you have any that have the plastic wrap that's damaged on them either re-wrap them or get rid of them just get a new one right um if you put one in a charger and it starts to overheat or it feels like it's getting hotter than normal then yeah I'd replace the battery once again you know it's all common sense stuff um that um you know you can do uh in order to prevent any of that stuff from happening I would say use a quality charger number one go to our website there's not a charger that we sell that's not a quality charger that has over overcharge and and undercharge protection on it. The other thing is is to make sure that you're using the right uh wall adapters to plug in so that it doesn't supply more power to the charger than what is is necessary. I mean that's what I would do. I know uh Rick's has even come out we do have them on our website as well they've got fire bags I don't know if you've seen those or not Drew uh but it's it's a little silver bag that is a fire bag so if you want to charge your batteries inside that bag you can or if you just want to store them in there but it's it's what they're made for is to prevent if that battery would would catch on fire or what have you um it's supposed to protect you know from burning down your house or what have you so um those are available out there um you can buy them if you want um we do have them in stock um i feel obligated to stock them just based off of um you know uh they're available so you know but i'll be honest with you i don't use them um me myself personally um but i you know also don't want to be responsible for you know somebody that that burns our house down and they think it was a battery that that caused it and and so forth so um the the the interesting thing that's kind of come out of this rix battery recall is that rix is claiming at this point that uh they're no longer gonna sell any rix branded batteries so i don't know what that looks like in the future right now um whether they go with a battery manufacturer and just sell their particular batteries but i did think it was interesting to hear that the rix branded 18650 batteries are are being discontinued so um we we are currently out of them um i i don't believe that anybody else you know has got um any available but uh they may have still some lingering around out there um and go from there if you are confused about which 18650 battery uh fits in your unit give us a call um we've got all the units on display here we can check different branded batteries make sure that they fit there are some bricks products out there that require the longer batteries there are other products like for example the Storm S6 had this one earlier this morning uh the Storm S6R uh they were want extra batteries for it and it actually takes a shorter 18650 battery um and go from there and I guess to bring that up as well common question we get all the time is you know I bought 18650s off of Amazon and they don't fit like what did I do wrong? They're 18650s right aren't they supposed to fit um lithium ion batteries then that's what these are uh lithium ion 18650 batteries there's a there's there's no real standard like a double A or a triple A battery as people understand it you know uh double AAA nine volt D cell C cell batteries super easy because you always know that they're gonna fit because there's a standard wrapped around that um there are 18650 batteries that are longer in length that won't fit in certain products leading to a lot of people's frustrations but once again if you ever have any questions on you know what battery fits in what unit and which one we feel is the best I will tell you we don't test every single battery out there in the market there's literally thousands of different batteries out there but we do have some that are our favorites that work extremely well um we've even recently just started carrying the um the keep power uh 18650 uh all weather uh so they're the low temp batteries um and again just kind of got them in here recently but the low temp batteries um you know claim that they will discharge at a better rate um all the way down to lower temperatures and you can use up to 80% of the battery before the battery actually cuts out and and doesn't allow you to use any more of the battery so one of the things that we've run up against is people using an 18650 battery and the battery indicator gets down to about 25% maybe maybe even 30 35 40 and then the show the the scope just shuts off it just cuts out and they're like man I thought I had more battery power and my my scope just cut out they don't know if they've got a bad battery chances are you're using it in super cold weather and that battery decided to cut out because it it's not designed to be used and that cold of temperatures if that makes sense. So again keep power came out with a battery that is designed now to be used in super cold temperatures and so forth um uh with still protecting that 18650 battery um which kind of reminds me too is you know when we talked about swelling of batteries you know how a battery can swell um typically what causes that is if you discharge an 18650 battery and it gets extremely low in power right um so lithium ion is ions jumping around inside that cell the more that it's charged the faster they move right the more it's discharged the slower those ions move okay to create the power if you get an 18650 battery that gets severely discharged and then you leave it in your truck for example you know in super cold weather and that battery continues to decline in power or decrease its power because it's sitting there not charged and it's in super cold temperatures it can get to the point where it can freeze and break or freeze and swell right um or even if it doesn't swell it can damage the internals of that battery and I think that's what a lot of people are running up against is they've they're leaving their discharged batteries in the back of their truck or in the backseat of their truck. Their truck sits outside all night uh what have you it's negative 10 uh at night and you know you start having a battery that you're like man I just bought this battery and it worked great and today it doesn't if that's the case something's happened to that battery that it didn't like you know what I'm saying um and go from there. So um yeah and you know the other thing is with 18650 batteries they are throwaway batteries okay they are you know one of these batteries that you know I will tell you if you use your batteries often I would I would swap my 18650s out at least every two years um not saying you have to do it every year um every three years for sure if you don't use them very often um but if you start to notice that you're not getting as much life with that battery um I I would swap it out um go from there like I said they're they're inexpensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Yeah I'm also under the impression that um you know good practice for carrying around 18650s is you should not carry them just plain in your pocket like you know I've seen the things on Facebook and stuff of people having batteries burn and stuff in their pockets. And I'm under the impression you should always have it in a case or something like this is how I carry mine just in a little plastic you know case just so that way it's protected and you don't have these you know things happen hopefully um most batteries that you buy like the keep power batteries they do come with that little plastic case that you just showed there that's this is the key power case.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Yep I battery in there but yeah the the only one problem with those cases are is that if you do go out in extreme cold and you drop that case they almost shatter um we do have on our website 18650 battery holders now um we just got done um making them and getting them put in stock so I'll have to get some of those up to you so you can check them out. But um they actually um you know they don't have a door that opens up and closes because eventually that hinge will break on you. But it does slide down in they are retained with a clip at the top and you can easily just slide them in and out. So um they're really a slick setup. We do have them in a two battery three battery or four battery 18650 configuration. And we are also getting ready to make those for uh to be able to snap on right onto a tripod leg. So that's gonna be kind of cool as well too. But uh um yeah so there's there's some options out there to keep your batteries protected when they're not we also do make some battery protectors for like the square batteries that that uh come with like the the the Rico's and uh stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

So check out our website you might you might be able to find a battery protector that that slides up over the top it just it does help keep the the uh prongs inside those square batteries nice and clean um and keeps them protected as well too so um yeah yeah that makes sense no it's all good tips uh for everybody running 18650s it's becoming more and more of a thing as you know everybody it seems like more and more scopes to everyone that comes out they need the 18650s so uh it's all it's all relative and good to know and you know a little bit of safety for your batteries too but uh another thing too that's kind of uh it's not new I know it's not new to you but uh it's it's something that's popping up as you know a newer thing that I'm guessing a lot of guys aren't familiar with uh and another thing that Rick sent out recently that I saw come across uh an email or something recently uh is sensor burn so can we can you kind of explain what sensor burn is and how it happens and how guys can avoid it so sensor burn is looking at

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Something that is extremely hot for a long period of time to the point where it degrades or uh basically ruins your sensor. Um so sensor burn is something that is becoming more and more common all the time, right? Like um, we used to never hear of it, to be honest with you. The reason why is because the sensitivity of the sensors were not as good as they are today. So the more sensitive we make thermals, the better that they're gonna perform in adverse weather conditions like high humidity, fog, and rain. And when when I talk about high humidity, I'm really talking about anything over that 80% mark for humidity, right? So the more sensitive we make them, the better they perform in bad weather. But it also is just like a welding helmet. The more of the protection that you take away to make it more sensitive, the more light or heat that allows to hit the sensor, right? So now that we're coming up with 15 millikelvin, uh 13 millikelvin, 12 millikalvin scopes uh with a net D rating, uh, you know, all of a sudden they're way more susceptible to um, you know, sensor burn. Um and the sensor burn, what it looks like to me is for a lack of better words, I wish I had a picture of it, but it looks like worms zigzagging around on the screen. Because typically, if you are out walking around, let's just say you leave the lens cap open on your thermal scope and it's sticking straight up in the air because you've got it, you know, slung to your back, right? And it's high noon and the sun's straight up above you. Chances are your thermal scope is waving back and forth at the sun, and there is a potential to end up having a a line go around on your screen, and it almost looks like a worm that just did not hold still because it was moving around constantly, right? Um, that is sensor burn. Uh, the the the biggest problem with sensor burn is is that it is not a warrantable situation. Um, most manufacturers are to the point now where they will not warranty um any of the sensor burn uh thermals out there. Um, and and again, it's because they're seeing it way more than what we used to as well, too, just because all the all the sensors are becoming more sensitive. Um so the one thing that I would tell you is I used to tell everybody don't point your thermal at anything that is hotter than 500 degrees for a long period of time. And a long period of time means you know more than two to three minutes, right? However, with how much more sensitive all of these thermals are getting, I literally had a guy walk out of our shop the other day and he literally spun around and it was it was during the day and he was looking at the thermal and the the thermal flashed right across the sun, and I thought, oh man, I hope that didn't cause any problems. And I told him, I'm like, hey, don't don't point that at the sun anymore, blah, blah, blah. And I went to look through it, and just from that quick, really, I want to say it was a half a second that it was pointed at the sun, it actually had thermal burn in the sensor. Um, and I was like, Oh my god! He just, you know, came over to look at some thermals and he ruined a$2,000 thermal. Um but um again, uh as long as it's not for a long period of time, you should be able to work the thermal burn out of the sensor. Um, and one of the ways that you can do that is by leaving the the thermal on for a long period of time with the nuke set to automatic. Okay, so you definitely want the refresh or the nuke uh set to automatic so that it constantly keeps refreshing. Keep the lens cap closed, hook up an external battery pack or whatever you got to do to keep that thing powered up for a long, long period of time. And I'm talking about three days straight. If you do that, we have seen some of them work the thermal burn out of them. Some of them don't. Um but some of them work it out to the point where it's livable. Yes, you probably wish that you didn't do it, but there are ways to try to mitigate the the thermal burn in some of these scopes. But with today's standards and how sensitive these thermals are getting, I would tell you I wouldn't point it at anything over 250 degrees for more than a few seconds.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

Okay. Um it's always cool that when uh somebody pulls up in a vehicle is to look right in at the radiator and stuff like that. Boy, don't do it in the summertime when things are super hot, because those things that if you look at them long enough, they could cause thermal burn in into the sensor um and uh go from there. Um but if you ever do run across a situation that you know you are seeing these squiggly, you know, faded out lines uh across your screen, you know, feel free to give us a call. We'll, you know, we'll do what we can to help you get that um you know solved. But at the end of the day, um it might be a warranty issue that you know um it's not a warranty issue, it's it's where you you will send for warranty, but you're probably gonna have to pay for it. Um and the sensor is a very expensive part of a thermoscope. Um, if it's a discontinued product, I'm gonna say you're probably not gonna have much luck getting it fixed. Um, if it is not a um if it's still a uh product that is in production, uh chances are you'll be able to get it fixed. You're probably not gonna like the price, but it it'll probably be able to be fixed.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:52

Yeah, that's rough. And I know uh guys are got get these expensive scopes and they take awesome videos and they want to take them out in the daytime and record their hunt. That's what most people are using them for, I think, at least what I hear. Um, but just be conscious of that and know that you know, where kind of where you're pointing your gun, your lens cap is closed, uh, you know, all those type things. I'm not saying don't use it in the daytime, but just be conscious of those things.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:23

Exactly. If you want to use it during the day, man, go out and use it during the day. There is no issue with that whatsoever. Don't put it at the sun. Um, if you're out during the day, um, it's treat it like the if you're familiar with the old Gen 1, Gen 2, Gen 3 night vision, man, keep the lens cap on it all the time. Um, you know, and only open it up when you're gonna use it. Um, that is the best way to do it. If you're at night and you're looking at, you know, uh a car coming down the road, man, don't worry about it. You're you're not gonna burn any any sensors or anything like that. Um, you know, in the summertime, uh, super hot, somebody just, you know, uh grabbed a foot full of brake uh or slammed the brakes on on their car and their rotor's roasting hot and and you go and you shine it at it, you're gonna know instantly that it's super hot because it's gonna be super bright on the screen, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:22

Don't look at it for a long period of time. That's the best way to prevent that and go from there. So yeah, may save you some bucks down the road.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:31

Yeah, no, I don't think anybody wants to replace a thermal sensor if they don't have to, uh especially if you have a discontinued scope and whatever. I mean, you're gonna be uh SOL on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:42

So yeah, discontinued or out of warranty, that's that's an ugly situation for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:48

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we want to avoid that and uh don't do that. So uh yeah, I think that's uh most of the things we wanted to cover today for you guys, and just want to touch base again, uh the Sportsman's Expo in the Dells. We are right across from uh Whitetail Adrenaline and Working Class Bow Hunter. So don't miss us. And if you got a thermal you want to check out, uh stop in check it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:22

And uh yeah, we'll have a lot of different thermals there, um, for sure. It is very difficult to take you know everything to the show. Um, but uh we'll definitely have uh a lot of thermals there, a lot of good stuff to look through, especially if you're a first thermal, you know, uh buyer. Um, it is a great show to go to to be able to look through things, um, you know, see through them and stuff like that. Uh, but if you uh don't have the ability to come to the show, um, we also uh, you know, uh one of the things that we strive for at Dark Knight Outdoors is to get people into the right product the first time around based off of what you tell us you're using it for. Um, you know, um everybody, you know, asks me every day uh what's the best thermal scope out there? And I I tell everybody it's the best one out there is the one that fits your needs and your budget the best, right? So at the end of the day, there is no right or wrong answer. There's over 120 different thermal scopes out there on the market today to choose from. Um, it's it's a big pool of confusion, if you will. Um, and at the end of the day, that's what we do, that's what we strive for. And not only that, I will put a guarantee that if you call me up and we discuss a thermoscope and I recommend something to you and you don't like that thermoscope for one reason or another, I will absolutely unequivocally get you into the right product. Um, send it back to me, and I will get you into the right product um and go from there. Um, you know, um at the end of the day, um, nobody wants to get an expensive thermal. I don't care if it's two thousand dollars or eight thousand dollars. Um they don't want to get the wrong product and have something that they can't use. And uh we understand that, and we're definitely willing to work with people to make sure that they get into the right product the first time around.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:31

So yep, I agree. Uh, and if you are a tech guy, you have technical questions, you want to know about you know millikalvin ratings and you know uh what's just a lot of people ask a lot of people ask the detection range one. Uh thinking about the expo, I remember you know, thinking back to last year, a lot of people want to know the detection range of things. Well, Jamie knows every single spec and number out there. So uh if you are if you're wired that way, call Jamie and you guys are gonna have probably a longer conversation than uh is necessary, but it's gonna be helpful and get you in the right pointed in the right direction. So, but I do think if especially like I get questions a lot about guys asking me about like uh you know lower end thermal or uh you know uh for example a knockfix bolt uh L35R. Uh how somebody will compare that to another unit, and I'm like, man, you you have not looked through that unit if you think that's a you know slouch of a unit, that's a nice unit.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:41

You know, like sure at$2,000? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:45

Yeah, you that's a great unit for the money. Like people it'll give you that that that vision to look through it and say, oh man, this is way better, you know, than I thought it was gonna be. So it's helpful to see through those things and realize that you're not just blowing your money on a cheap thermal, it's still a quality unit.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

Yeah, and the one thing that really has changed with thermals out there today is that the for the last eight years that we've been doing this, is it's always been a race to the the clearest thermal, yeah, the best image, right? Because thermals started out when you first looked at them, you know, eight years ago, they look like a blob out there, you know. And so everybody was afraid that they were gonna shoot, you know, uh the farmer's dog or they were gonna shoot something that they weren't supposed to, and and and stuff like that. With today's thermals, they've gotten so good on the image quality, even some 384s. I got, if you remember, we had people that were blown away by 384s and swore that they were 640 thermals that you know were actually 384s. Um, the the thermal images have gotten so great that that is no longer probably the number one um most important thing that people look at anymore. Um, it's it's more if am I getting into the right base magnification uh scope? Am I getting one that is gonna perform in high humidity because I live in one of those areas where it's constantly humid, raining, foggy, you name it. Um and there's a lot of things to consider. And um at the end of the day, we want to make sure that that we understand what you're going to be using it for and make sure that we get you into the right product, not just the right, you know, uh thermal, but also something that meets your budget. Because at the end of the day, uh, unfortunately, we don't all have unlimited, you know, amounts of money to spend on this. And um it it's it's one of those things that everybody wants to get into the best scope for the money. And uh that's what we strive to do. And we feel that if we can do that for you, you'll be a return customer for a long time. So um that's that's really what it boils down to. And again, we can sit and talk about specs all day long. I've tried that approach. Uh, people usually remember it for about 30 seconds and then they forget. But um, that's what we're here for. Give us a call. Uh we're always more than willing to talk to you. If uh you know we don't answer your call the first time around, I'll guarantee you we'll call you back. Um, a lot of times I'll send you a text and just say, Hey, I'm on the phone, I'll call you back. Uh, but we'll we'll we'll always uh get to you and uh go from there. So and we always do have time to talk and and uh go from there. So feel free to give us a call. Uh we're open from 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. seven days a week. Uh we run some pretty long business hours, but uh um you can talk with me, you can talk with Garrett, you can talk to Drew, you can talk to Joe, you can talk to whoever you want. Uh, the people who answer the phones here are extremely knowledgeable when it comes to coyote hunting and calling and um all the thermals that we have. The one thing we won't do is if we don't have the answer, we will get you the answer. We won't tell you something that is wrong or just to answer the question. Um, you know, we will definitely find out. And I know, Drew, you said that I'm, you know, a wizard at all the different specs on these scopes and so forth. Man, there are so many out there now. I don't know anybody that can be the wizard for all of them, but there's times that that I will, you know, have a brain fart and I'll have to go back and and and look or whatever and and stuff like that. But uh um, you know, one of the things is is when we stare through all these thermals all day long, we can pretty much look at the the scopes and the specs and and tell you what it's gonna look like. The biggest thing with a lot of these scopes is all the little nuances of them. Um, a lot of people don't realize and they don't see it in the specs that when it doesn't have an internal battery, they don't realize that every time they replace a battery on a scope that they're gonna have to repower it back up. And it can, is it a bad thing? No. Is it terrible? No, is it the end of the world? Heck no. But at the end of the day, it's annoying, you know. And some people would prefer to have that internal battery to make sure that they don't lose any, you know, internal data or they don't lose anything and and go from there. So um, you know, uh there's there's little nuances to even the battery caps and you know, whether you can plug a magnetic uh cord into the side of the scope so that you don't rip the the the cord out of the the side of the scope and and cause damage and and stuff like that. So that's one of the things that is a big advantage to you know reaching out and uh just give us a call. Um, I have a lot of people that call me up or stop here at the shop and they are they got their mindset, they're like, man, this is the scope that I'm here to look at. And I will tell you 95% of the time they go home with something different because they realize that what they research wasn't the right thing. But um, yeah, give us a call and we'd be more than happy to help you out.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:16

Yeah, no, I agree. Uh, it always helps to see them talk to people who know the units. And if you're on the fence, call Jamie, he'll help you narrow in on what you need. So uh on that note, we will wrap it up. Jamie, I appreciate your time. Uh, everybody can come see us at the uh open season sportsmen's expo in the Dells uh March 27th to the 29th, and check these things out. You can check out these nuances and pick Jamie's brain, pick my brain. You want to talk calling, you want to talk hunting? Uh, we will have the whole crew there, and we'd love to see you guys. So Jamie's info is in the description, as always. If you guys haven't looked at it or haven't called, if this is your first time listening, uh check it out. And uh, Jamie, thanks. Uh it's always a pleasure getting to talk with you and hear about all these good things.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:12

Oh, thanks, bro. Appreciate it, man. Have a good one.