Liz Allan [00:00:02]:

So today on the podcast I have got with me, Phil Shadbolt, Now Phil is the chief executive of EZEE Charge. He's also the chairman of Zeta Specialists Lighting Now just to start off with. Thank you ever so much for joining me today, Phil. No problem. My pleasure. We met It's probably 2 weeks ago now, isn't it? I know. Time flies. And and we were introduced by Jenny Figueredo I hope I've pronounced her name correctly. I'm terrible. From Oxford Oxford County Council -- Yeah. -- because you've been providing charge points. to Oxfordshire for a little while, haven't you? I have. So and I and I came up to your manufacturing plant and your offices, which was just amazing. So thank you ever so much for being so kind and showing me around and everything. And then we went to we went to one of the the hubs in Vista. Didn't we afterwards? Yeah. Clairemont. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was brilliant. So just For me, that was just a perfect experience just to be able to see everything working and seeing cars charging and seeing because you literally manufacture, don't you? So but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give it all away now because I wanna I wanna talk about this because it so lovely to get to know you a little bit that day as well. So can you give me a little bit of your your background on why you started easy charge because easy charge is part of the the Zeta group, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Easy charge now is a completely standalone company.

Phil Shadbolt [00:01:33]:

But I I started the Zeta Group or Zeta specialist lighting about 35 years ago. It's been out from Oxford University. My background is electronics. I'm an electronic engineer, a bit of a geek if you like. And the reason I started these charge was I I'd bought I was quite an early adopter of electric vehicles, and I I bought a Tesla. And I I had the the poor experience trying to charge the car in in public car parks. I thought, correct. I've got a degree in electronics, and I can't get this damn thing to charge. So what's the chance for for, you know, just for anybody just to to to rock up and get charges working? So I thought there's an opportunity here. to actually make charging easy and reliable because in those days and and in some instances, even today, it It's very difficult to get these things working. So, you know, some of the some of the charge point operators, you've got a 5050 chance when you get there whether or not you'll be able to charge your car. you imagine if you've got, you know, just five miles left and you wanna get home, it's it's quite stressful. So what we wanted to do with easy charge was take the stress out a bit, make these things reliable, make them very, very easy to use. And and and that's that was the vision and the mission, if you like, for for easy charge when we started it.

Liz Allan [00:02:51]:

But that's brilliant because, literally, I I saw your pro I saw the prototype,

Phil Shadbolt [00:02:57]:

and and and that was that was very different to the to the charge points that you've got now, isn't it? You know? Yeah. Yeah. We we we were lucky because we we won a Grom from Innovate UK. That's what started this whole process off about 4 years ago. So we won a collaborative grant with University of Oxford with SSE, with Oxfordshire County Council and another local software firm. And the Innovate UK wanted us to do a pilot for EV charging to make it reliable and easy to use. Mhmm. And we selected 20 car parks in Oxfordshire. There's a 100 car parks in total in Oxfordshire, but we selected 20. And the reason for those where they were close to shopping areas. They were close to where people have houses that don't have driveways. So these people were will never be able to charge at home. So they really need charging. hubs. So that was the priority for this innovate UK project. And we set about working on on all kinds of things in the project. It was wasn't just the charger. It was all about how to use it, where they'd be located, how we'd work with the with the university to collect data. how we'd also work with Oxfordshire County Council to make sure these things were in the right place. And and and in effect, we what we have to do is reflect a really good image on the county councils and the district councils because that when people charge their car, that's who they think is offering the provision. You know, you often get a comment back saying, well done West Oxford chair. for putting these these charges in. Well, yes. You know, we have work collaborative with with West Oxbridge, but it's it's easy charge that run them, that maintain them, that operate them. So it's it's really nice that we hopefully, through our service, we've given a very good reflection on the on the district councils.

Liz Allan [00:04:47]:

Yeah. I think I think you really, really have. It was it's it was kind of interesting to like I say to see them to see them in place in the first place, you know, and and you and actually, can you explain how you got from the prototype to what you've got now because it's a really robust kind of 2 armed

Phil Shadbolt [00:05:11]:

charge point, isn't it? Yes. we started off with quite a small like you say, the prototype that you saw was quite a very small unit. Kinda little bollard size, wasn't it? Yeah. Very, very, very small. But what we what we found was when when we put some of those prototypes on the street with the city council, probably, correctly going back 6 or 7 years ago. What we found was they were getting always knocked down. People reversing into them. They were getting vandalized. We even had a cadbury's creme egg slotted into the connector. Right?

Liz Allan [00:05:43]:

Oh, no.

Phil Shadbolt [00:05:45]:

No. Honestly, it was very, very difficult and, therefore, costly to maintain these things and keep these operational. And that's kind of how the idea evolved is we started off doing on street, we realized that that was gonna be very difficult and costly. And then we moved to the the concept of hubs, a bit like Tesla. So, you know, if you go go to a Tesla supercharger, there's several charges there. You're almost guaranteed of getting a space, a parking space, and a charging space. and obviously with Tesla because they're reliable. They're working. So that was kind of how we evolved to move away from street charging to hub charging. And I have to say it. It has been very, very successful. We don't have I I I'd say we don't have no no vandalism. We we have very, very little vandalism. think we'd have one bit of graffiti that was was sprayed on one of the chargers, but we use special paint. So we can wipe it off immediately. And so when when when people get used to the idea that if you put graffiti on, it's not gonna stay on there. They don't bother. So we've had very little vandalism. It being just like the Tesla superchargers in terms of reliability and ease of use. And that's what's made it very, very successful for everyone. And how long how long does it take in you to put the hubs or how long does it take you to put the hubs in place? Well, this this project was was actually over it was supposed to be a 2 year project, ended up being a 3 year project. So the 1st year and a half really was to develop the product. And the 2nd year and a half was actually getting all of the legals in place, doing the civil's work. This thing's called Whalies where you have If you have to dig across land that's owned by somebody else, you have to get the commission. So there's quite a lot that goes into the planning process Even one of the district councils just wanted to make sure, so we had to apply for planning permission to put the charges in their car parks. So there's there's quite a lot of process you have to go through. You have to apply to the DNO to get a grid connection, district district network operator to get the the grid connection. You then have to work with the subcontractors to physically dig up and make the connection. And this is a really interesting part. When they make the connection, for these chargers. They have to go on to a live connector. They actually do it while the connection is live. Can you believe that? Oh my god. Well, that's a bit dangerous, isn't it? I know. Wouldn't I wouldn't catch me doing that, but they have a team of experts that do this all the time. They dig up. They the connector, they dig it out, they separate it, they make the connection onto that live connection, and then that feeds into our charges. So there's quite a process to go through, legal installation, the civils work, and then, eventually, you get to the the the nice bit, which is plugging the charger in and doing the line painting.

Liz Allan [00:08:33]:

And what what kind of reception have you had from the peep I mean, obviously, I know People you're saying residents think that it's they just kind of go oh, well done well done Oxford County Council, well done Dunox Oxler's your city council, but, you know, what what kind of feedback have they been getting? Well, a a really good

Phil Shadbolt [00:08:53]:

example of this. We were actually with Zeta Lighting, we were at the Abingdon Eco Fair last weekend, and we had our easy charge care car there. So we've got a support car, which is a BMW I3, all patched up as easy charge. And somebody walked along. And he said, oh, I recognize easy charge. He's and he said. I I just wanted to say thanks very much for putting these in. It's the best charge point network we've ever used. And I thought, well, I'm I'm happy with that. I'm happy with that. So I bet that was such a brilliant feeling. Oh, it's wonderful. because you I I think people don't appreciate them out of the work that goes into this. Not not just me. It's my team here. I've got a fantastic team of guys. My engineers are just unbelievable. The amount of love and care and attention they put into these charge points to make sure they were a For example, one one of the problems with electricity, obviously, is water. So what we do is we measure the dew point, that's the point at which moisture is is is created, if you like, inside the charger. So we measure that. And we turn then if we detect any moisture, we turn on a fan heater. So that actually then create an environment that means that water will just evaporate, and that means that the charger always works. So -- Yes. -- it's things that attention to detail that we that our engineers here have gone into to make sure these things work, which is why it's a big machine. I suppose if there is a criticism, People will say it's it's a very large machine for a for a 22 kilowatt charger because you can get 22 kilowatt chargers that are much smaller. We did that on purpose. We wanted to make it large, chunky, reliable. It's gonna last at least 10 years. You know, that's the duration of this contract. So we wanted to make sure it's it's gonna stand the test of time and still be there in 10 years.

Liz Allan [00:10:44]:

I was gonna you know, you kind of answers answer one of my questions because I was I was gonna say, what makes a good charge point? You know, compared to you've you've had that Tesla for years now, haven't you? And you've you've seen you've seen the, you know, the charging infrastructure evolve over time. So so would you say that, you know, What what are you how do you how does how are you how are you different to some of the other charge point operators? It's it's actually really, really difficult to get

Phil Shadbolt [00:11:13]:

a a a charge charge point system, the whole system operational, and and and to keep it running. It's actually very, very difficult. If you think about a petrol pump, you know, a petrol pump is just really a pump. That's all it is, and and it's got you know, a dial on it that shows you how much petrol you're you're delivering or diesel. A charge point is completely different. You know, you've got you've got the option for tethered leaves. You've got sockets, you've got 7 kilowatts, 11 kilowatts, 22 kilowatts. You've got AC, you've got DC. Yeah. You've got all these points of failure that couldn't you know, one point of failure goes down, and that means the charge point doesn't work. So like I was saying earlier, moisture if you get moisture inside a charge point, it will trip and that charge point won't work. You've got communications. You've got to communicate not only to the bank to get the details off of people's debit cards so that you can charge them properly. That's all got to happen seamlessly. But also, you've got to communicate with the back end software. which is what how we monitor and how we control all of the charge points. So there's there's a whole load of points of failure that can happen in a charge point network. And you've gotta make sure that you've got all of those little tiny points very well engineered and very well covered off. And that's really what the the funding from Innovate UK allowed us to do. It gave us the time. It allowed us to step back. It allowed us to really engineer this product as reliably as possible. And that and that's, you know, it's brilliant. It's a the the innovate UK, we an absolutely perfect project for us to actually develop these charge points.

Liz Allan [00:12:52]:

Brilliant. Brilliant. Just a second. Can I hear you've got your Outlook on, by the way? Oh, yes. Would you mind just shutting that down? And if you've got any phones on sorry, Tom, you'll have to edit this bit out loud. Is that alright? Yeah. My bloody phone just went off. Yeah. I heard it I heard it a little bit in the background. And

Phil Shadbolt [00:13:14]:

I'll turn it off. Cool. Is that alright? Yeah. No problem. Okay.

Liz Allan [00:13:25]:

So so if I can ask you then, How is it working with a council? Because obviously, a council is they they have to obtain their funding from somewhere, don't they? Yes. You know? And I know it's a bit of a slow slow process with them, but but it seems to me that the oxfordshire are a little bit kind of further ahead of the curve than some of the other local authorities. What was it like working with them? And and kind of why why are they kind of more ahead further ahead of the curve do you think? I think I think, to be honest, we were very, very lucky with Oxford Cheer.

Phil Shadbolt [00:14:04]:

They are very, very forward thinking. They have a group, a special group within Oxbridge County call council called the IHUB. And the IHUB have have a team of people that dedicate to looking to to looking to new ideas and new things. So this was set up a long, long time ago by a very, very insightful leader there. And and, basically, because of that, they've got a team of people that are already there thinking about all these things. You know, they've got they've got as a chap called Paul Gambling, and and obviously Jenny that you know you met who are so on it in terms of what the technology is, in terms of how to deliver these things. They are they are just such a a a very well educated, very knowledgeable team of people. that know what's happening in the market. They you you know, they've got their eyes and ears all over the place. And it's just a pleasure to deal with it because they Not only have they got the knowledge and the and the experience, but they've also got the desire to deliver. And that's something that's sometimes missing. You know, they're drive to a for it to have a council employee if you like. That's got the drive to actually make sure that these systems work. And I I think, you know, I've no hesitation in saying if it wasn't for the team in Oxbridge County Council, then this project wouldn't have been successful. So, you know, they they have been absolutely superb to work with and a great team of people.

Liz Allan [00:15:35]:

They they do I mean, like, say, I've I've only I only know Jenny, and I've interviewed interviewed Jenny on this previously. But her enthusiasm is just -- Yeah. -- you know, it makes such a such a difference, doesn't it? You know? You won't get a more enthusiastic

Phil Shadbolt [00:15:50]:

person than Jenny. So it's she's just been

Liz Allan [00:15:53]:

inspirational to work with. Yeah. So if if you and from a charge point, operator point of view, if you had some advice to give to a local authority who was kind of quite a lot further back on their journey compared to compared to Oxbridge. What would you what would you suggest What would what would your kind of suggestion be for what they need to do to kind of be as successful as oxfordshire?

Phil Shadbolt [00:16:20]:

Yeah. I think I think it's essential that they talk to other local authorities like like Oxbridge County Council. Mhmm. Find out what have been the the pain points, what have been the the difficulties, what have been the areas where there's been some mistakes and some learnings because Like I said earlier, our our learnings in the in the early days was that on street charging, although it's necessary in a lot of areas because you haven't got any other option. But, you know, they're not necessarily gonna be the best option going forwards. So I would I would definitely advise seeking out other local authorities, talked to to several ChargePoint operators and talked to them about their experience and what they've delivered and what the challenges have been. I think talk to as many people as possible. There's also a there's a strategy document that's available online. Oxfordshire developed Oxford City Council and Oxfordshire County Council developed their own EV strategy. And as far as I'm aware, if you Google these, you can you can just download them and and and adopt them or change them to suit. know, I don't think -- Yep. -- either the city or the county would would mind you as a local authority taking these and adopting these and and making them suit your particular area. I think

Liz Allan [00:17:38]:

I've gotta say it is a very, very good document. I've kind of you know, I started talking to local authorities myself. And and, actually, for for anybody who, yeah, you say from on the local authority side or on the charge point operator side, learning the language, understanding what has been done before, what, you know, what a successful charge point infrastructure or strategy looks like. if yeah. So so definitely, it can it you can download it as a PDF. It's open source as long as you know what you're looking for. So I think it's I think it's under I think it's the count it's the city council, isn't it? The the strategy or is it I can't remember. It's the -- There's there's there's oxfordshire's got 2. They're very similar.

Phil Shadbolt [00:18:28]:

Mhmm. And it's there's there's Oxbridge County Council, AV Strategy,

Liz Allan [00:18:32]:

and then there's a city council also have one. Yeah. So you might as well actually download both and and utilize what's already been what's already been done because -- Works to happen. Yeah. exactly because actually if you can jump a few hoops by by reading reading a strategy doc document in advance of doing all this, then it's gonna make a massive difference because and and also have like you're saying, have those conversations because it'll I I I always say this during the podcast. You don't know what you don't know. Yeah. And actually, if you don't know what you don't know, you need to read something so you learn a little bit so you know the questions to start asking.

Phil Shadbolt [00:19:12]:

Absolutely. And I think I think the other thing is is to go travel around and try try them. Actually, you know, use the product. Yes. Test the product. Test our product. Test other people products. Yeah. I actually say, well, I'm you know, I'm a I'm now a use it. How how am I interfacing with this? Is it is it friendly? Is it easy? Is it something that because at the end of the day, this whole thing is gonna be in a long time because the investment is so so heavy. You know, the investment for one of these charging hubs is is is multiple thou 100 of 1000 of pounds. Yeah. So it's got to be in there for a long time. It's gotta be right. Yeah. And what you don't want as a local authority is to be stuck with something where People at the end of the day aren't happy with it. And they turn around, and that and there's a poor reflection on the districts, as I said I said earlier. And they say, well, these aren't very good charge points. or the system doesn't work very well, or I can't use credit card to pay, or I don't know how to use it, and I've got problems and nobody helps me. these are all the things that you really need to drill down on because if you get it wrong, it's gonna be a bad reflection on your local authority.

Liz Allan [00:20:19]:

So so I've I've actually got your website beside me. I'm I'm looking at I'm looking at a photo, and I took photos in life of the the hub when when we were when we were there. And they are they are very robust, you know, kind of charge points with with colored so there's 2 cables going it so you can actually charge 2 cars at the same time. In the hub, there's no there's no curb. So theoretically, should be okay for for disabled or, you know, people with limited mobility. What what would you have you had feedback from from from people who who are who are disabled? Are they have they been happy with what they you know, what you're kind of providing as well? Yeah. We we've tried where we wherever possible in in Oxitude to actually have one bay that's got

Phil Shadbolt [00:21:05]:

if if you like accessibility. So it's be wider. Some of the bays have got sort of crisscross marks for people in in wheelchair access. So we've tried to take it on board. as much as you can in a car park because, obviously, you've got it also try and utilize the amount of bays you've got, and you've obviously got restrictions within the car park. So wherever possible, we've had to we we we tried to make it more accessible for for disabled. Yes.

Liz Allan [00:21:32]:

Yeah. Yeah. So that that makes that make that makes a massive difference. And what was the what was the thought about actually having it? because that means quite a it's a big unit anyways, isn't it? Yeah. The idea of actually when did you go from deciding you were just gonna have one charge point to 2 in there? Yeah. Well, we just we just figured it's it's easy to put 2 connectors inside. If we're making a a large housing, we want 1 housing, one charge point to feed 2 bays.

Phil Shadbolt [00:22:00]:

And then we we made the decision to have it had a long debate actually as to whether or not we should have sockets or whether we should have leads tethered leads for people to charge the car. And we we kind of decided in the end of the day that we're all quite lazy. And rather than opening the boot and getting your own cable out and then dropping it on the floor, getting covered in water and mud. Message out. Actually, it's just easy, like a petrol pump. Just click it out of the charger, plug it into the car, and that's it. So we've done that, but also for accessibility, every single tub has got one charger which people can use their own Charge point plug on if they want to. So, like, the early Nissan Leaf had a type 1 connect sector, and our connectors are type 2, which most most new cars now are all type 2. But there are some cars out there with type 1. So we've we've catered for that by having one machine in every car park car that's got sockets on it. So it's accessible for everyone.

Liz Allan [00:23:01]:

Is the type 1 is that is that Chatter is that called Chadamo?

Phil Shadbolt [00:23:04]:

No. Chadamo is a is a rapid

Liz Allan [00:23:07]:

type 1. It's it's still an AC connector. I'm still learning. Oh,

Phil Shadbolt [00:23:14]:

so am I?

Liz Allan [00:23:16]:

So hang on. So so hang on. So Chadamo, what So that's that's rapid oh, you're gonna have to explain this. Come on. Tell me. Right.

Phil Shadbolt [00:23:25]:

So, basically, you've got you've got an AC charger -- Yeah. -- which is which will go up to 22 kilowatts in power. Yes. That'll that'll charge your car at about sixty five miles in 1 hour. Right. AC at home. So AC at home is single phase. 22 kilowatt is 3 phase. So you get a third of the power, so you get about 7 kilowatts at home. and that will charge your car at 25 miles 25, 28 miles in an hour. So our charges give you quite, you know, quite a fast charge. But if you want to get a a very, very fast charge, you want a rapid. Now a rapid charger is is typically a 100, maybe a 150. Some of them now coming out 200 kilowatts. So that will charge your car literally in 20 minutes, you know, up to 80% full. but that uses DC direct to current, and that's that uses a different connector. So on the connectors, for the rapids. You have 2 at the moment. You have Chadamo, which is if, like, he's like, the the first one that came out, the Japanese way of connecting. But the more common one now is called CCS. So the the new Teslas, most of them new cars now have a CCS connector, and that will put a rapid charge in into your car. So it's a different plug. It's a different plug, basically, to an AC. Okay. because not not all not all EV. Am I right? Not all EVs. Can use rapid chargers, or can they all know? Nearly all now. Yeah. Most cars now can take a rapid charge. Some of them will take 50 kilowatts, some 60. Some of the newer ones are going in at 200, maybe even 350 kilowatts. So the move is is more, you know, more power, faster is is what everyone's moving towards. That's what everybody wants.

Liz Allan [00:25:16]:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And and because again and we and I always talk about this this there is that level of negativity about, oh, you know, it takes a long time to charge a car, but that's usually from people. who who don't have EVs. They've heard through the grapevine that it takes a long time to charge an EV. But actually, if you think about it, you know, if you're I know that we're talking of, you know, we're talking about hub charging, but actually if you're because the I I think what you said to me, the idea of the hubs were were four people who haven't got you know, they haven't got an ability to charge at home. They haven't got lamppost charging. They will come to the hub. So they're more likely to leave their car there all day. Any aren't anyway, aren't they? Well, they can. They can I mean, in in most of the car parks, you you can that we've got our hubs in. You can actually leave your car there overnight, free of charge.

Phil Shadbolt [00:26:07]:

Yes. And you can you can then benefit from a lower rate as well So we charge less for overnight charging. And this is this is really aimed at the the local people that don't have access to home charging can then use one of our hubs overnight. So we're seeing we're seeing quite a lot of utilization in certain car parks. We see a lot more depending on the location. But when you think about a 20 you know, a lot of people say, oh, I'm they need happy, you need a rapid. And, yes, you know, in some instance, you definitely need a rapid. But you think about if you're going shopping, you're going shopping for an hour, maybe 2 hours, you're gonna get maybe a 100, 120 miles of charge in. Well, the average utilization of a car in the UK is about 39 miles a day. Yes. So, you know, you're you're covering 2 or 3 days in one visit to the shops where you're just going shopping for a couple of hours. So it's it it's a mindset thing. I believe. Now I you know, I'm fully obviously, fully converted over to a to an electric vehicle. It's very much a mindset thing. You you tend to think, where am I going tomorrow? Had I better make sure I a full charge or will a hundred miles, sixty miles do for me just going to the shops and back? And as long as you just think about and you just forward plan a little bit more than you may be used to with a with a petrol or a diesel, then, you know, very I I certainly, I've not run out yet anyway. And in 7 or 8 years that I've been driving.

Liz Allan [00:27:28]:

And I was gonna say, I mean, it's it's funny. I've got, you know, neighbors who've said to me, oh, you know, but what happens when I want to drive 2, 300 miles? Well, you know, you're not and and this is this is neighbors in in kind of like their their sort of late sixties, early seventies. And I've kinda said to them, well, are you gonna be driving 2, three hundred miles in one go? Yeah. Yeah. exactly. You know? Surely you'll want to come foot brake partway through. Yeah. So so, you know, it it's it's this the mindset about feeling that they need to have. You know, if you if at the moment, you know, for example, my car, you know, I've still got you know, combustion engine car at the moment. And and it takes it's it's five hundred miles to a tank. Now it took me quite at the moment because I'm not driving around too much, but in the moment at the moment it probably took me a little while to kind of use all of that. It is it is just changing changing the way you think about stuff, isn't it? You know? And like you say, if you've got if you've got a hub, like you like you're talking about. And and I was gonna ask you, would you would you advocate to councils that if they can use a hub that's a good way of actually, you know, kind of having having a place for people to to kind of come overnight. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very very much So because, you know, it's it's like I said earlier on the Tesla. You go to a Tesla hub. You've got a bank of chargers. You know you've got a very good chance of getting in on that bank of charges and being able to charge. If it's if it's a street

Phil Shadbolt [00:29:01]:

and you've got one charger down the street, Well, the chances are you're not gonna be able to plug it in. So you can go to a hub with quite a good degree of confidence that, a, you'll get a charge and and, b, something will be available for you. So I think the hubs is definitely the way way to go, and I think that's what people will start to see as being their preferred destination to to negotiate retro charger.

Liz Allan [00:29:27]:

And, actually, if you're like you're saying, if it's only 39 miles at, you know, kind of a day, they're only probably gonna have to charge up, what, once a fortnight ish, once a -- Awesome. -- 10 days, something like that. You know? Yeah. My math's probably isn't working today, but, you know,

Phil Shadbolt [00:29:44]:

to me, it's just it doesn't necessarily mean that they need to charge every week. No. Absolutely. But I think I think what happens is people people probably go to the shops and say, well, as a charge point there, it's a reasonable price. I'll plug it in, and I'll just top it up. Why not? And then and I think that's what happens with a lot of our charge points is our average our average charging session is 1 a half hours. So, you know, it's not it's not a huge length of time. So I think people are using them just to say, well, I'm here. I'll put some power into the car. Why not? Mhmm. We do occasionally get people saying that I you know, I've nearly run out. I need a charge. and and I'm gonna sit here until I've got enough charge to get home. Well, that's fine.

Liz Allan [00:30:29]:

Yeah. And I was gonna say, so on your in your hub, the one that I saw, you've got like a little substation there as well, haven't you? So so that was obviously part of the install having to get the substation put in. Yes. So

Phil Shadbolt [00:30:44]:

the the the the big box that we saw at the back, that's actually what we call a kiosk. That's that that particular one that you saw wasn't a substation. That's just a case which has got that's got all the safety device in it. It's like the meters. It's got the trips and everything in it. But you're right. A lot of lot of sites need a substation upgrade. So that's one of the challenges gonna be for all of us going forward in the next few years is how quickly the local district network network operator will be able to upgrade the substations to give us the power we need. And we're we're already with our hubs that we've you know, we've only deployed them 12 months ago. We're already on some of those hubs want to put more chargers in, and we want more capacity. So will be a challenge for for all of us going forwards.

Liz Allan [00:31:29]:

Yeah. Yeah. I can I can I can imagine because I've heard lots of stuff about the the grid teching quite a long time to allow various things. I I think it was more solar solar farms and things like that or wind farms that were that were kind of taking wind farms were taking about 10 years or something like that for kind of companies to actually be able to be able to kind of get the connections and everything. But I'll get do you know what? Tom, you're gonna have to give me a minute, actually. I'm gonna say this to Tom because my my mind's just gone totally blank now. I was gonna ask you something else, but it's totally gone. That was it we were gonna talk about Levi, won't we? That's it. Yeah. Right. Okay. Back again. I'm back in the room. So Can you just explain a little bit about how the the leave I funding worked with regards to yourselves? were you guys working with the the local council? How how did that work? How did that filter through to you?

Phil Shadbolt [00:32:35]:

Okay. So we we when we because we did our our system sort of over a year ago before Levi, which is the new fund was announced, So we were on a on a a system called Orcs, off road charging system. And that funded at the time, that funded 75% of the cost of the of our charges. Now the new funding, which I believe has now been allocated by the government, some 350,

Liz Allan [00:33:00]:

380,000,000

Phil Shadbolt [00:33:01]:

has now been allocated to local authority these 4 charge points. Now I don't think that's gonna be at the same level as 75% funding. I think that's up to each local authority. I'm not an spurt in Levi by any means. But my understanding is there's a there's an allocation of funds for most local authority for all local authorities that they can actually use build their own business case for how they want to deploy charges. And this is AC charges. This is DC. This is in rural locations. This is in hubs. So my understanding is that there's gonna be a need for a a lot of charge points to be installed over the next 3, 4 years. Yeah. And the local authorities are gonna work themselves and into a business case that will be accepted by Levi people, and they'll they'll then be able to allocate the funding. And I say whether it's 40% funding, 50% funding or or in perhaps in rural locations, it might have to be a 100% funding because checkpoint operators like us, we can't afford to put small charge points in a in a rural location that might not get any utilization. Yeah. And they might have they to to offer the service, they might have to be a 100% funded. Now my understanding is Levi offers the local authorities, the the ability to flex and to to develop their own business case for what they want to deploy.

Liz Allan [00:34:23]:

Okay. Okay. Another question I wanted to talk to you about was regarding the data that your that your charge points can provide to the local councils because you showed me the dashboard, didn't you? Yeah. What does what does it give? What does it provide the councils with why is that in why is it important?

Phil Shadbolt [00:34:47]:

Yeah. Very very good question. Very, very good question there. So what we realized early on through through our innovate project was actually, it's it's it's gonna be quite difficult for local authorities to manage, especially if they've got multiple charge point operators in. So we developed a unique product called a dashboard, and this gives local authorities the ability on a website to see exactly what's happening in their whole suite of charges. So it doesn't necessarily just have to be our charges. It can be anybody's charges. It can log into the system. But, for example, it will give you car park by car park which one is being used when. So you can see utilization data, whether they're using it at 9 o'clock or whether they're using it at o'clock. It will tell me how tell you how many kilowatt hours is being delivered. And, also, it will show you the trend over the last months, 6 months a year at the trend of utilization so you can plan as a local authority what your next steps will be. Having that data available so that will help you to then analyze and see what's going on. And the other thing we've now added to our dashboard is a a key performance indicator. So you'll see that the local authority will see straight away. If any charges are going offline, you'll see it straight away. And that will be backed up with a ticket which will show whether the engineers going on-site, what the plans are to get the charger back up and run So all of this data, this visibility now, we're offering to local authorities so so they can manage and see. They don't have to wait for a a a monthly report or an or a PowerPoint presentation. This is all live data -- Houston. -- make access. They can even take a feed from our dashboard and onto their website to show how many kilowatts are being delivered or even how many kilograms of CO2 are being removed. So all of that information we're sharing live with our local authority partners.

Liz Allan [00:36:47]:

That's brilliant. And and that in itself is you guys providing a really good customer service to the local councils, isn't it? Absolutely. And that the -- Yeah.

Phil Shadbolt [00:36:59]:

These days, we all expect, we all take for granted a very good customer service. Mhmm. And that's what this now has to be because people are people are quite scared of using charge points for the first time. You know, we get people just ringing up saying on my helpline just saying, look, I've never used one before. Can you just talk me through? And -- Yeah. -- you know, that people are really quite scared of of of how this is all gonna work, and they expect it to work, and they expect somebody to answer the phone, at any time during the night all day. I know there's there's this comfort that people need, especially in the early days. It's interesting because we We found with our helpline, particularly, we found that we got quite a lot of calls in the early 3, 4 months. And, actually, the calls now really tailing off So as people get used to the charges, they get to trust them and and use them more often. All of a sudden now, we only last weekend, I think we got one phone call on the helpline, whereas we used to get probably 5 to 7 a day. So it's quite in interesting to see actually.

Liz Allan [00:38:02]:

And I was gonna say, so we were talking about this one. I saw you. Didn't we? We we talked about the fact that You'd had some phone calls about people not being able to get the the cable back out, but what they didn't realize was, and I kinda like and to use in my when I fill up with petrol, I can't open my petrol cap unless the car's open. Yes. You know, because, obviously, they've tried stop people from, you know, in the days where people used to siphon fuel out a cars. Yeah. You know, when they used to do that, the you know, it's it's the same with the with the kind of an EV, isn't it? That actually, you know, you don't want any Tom De CarRari coming up to your car I'm pulling out the cable. Yes. Exactly. Hello? So I totally get it. So you have to have to unlock the car to actually

Phil Shadbolt [00:38:50]:

unplug the cable, don't you? Right. Yeah. But a lot of people don't realize that. A lot of people come back to the car, and they're sort of looking for a button to press on the charger. to disconnect them from the car. Whereas actually, it's the car that controls the disconnect process. So all you gotta do is unlock on most cars, you just unlock your car, and then your truck will come gets disconnected. But we get we get a few calls like that until -- Yeah. -- you realize.

Liz Allan [00:39:16]:

Yeah. And and and I do get it. I do get it. But, like, you know, if if you say if you I can imagine you saying to them, you know, you don't want anybody, like I said, you know, taking a taking a cable out of your car. If your if your car's fully charged, yes, it's your responsibility to get to that car because you know it's charged and then you know you know you need to take it away. But, actually, you don't you really don't want somebody unplugging it. No. No. Absolutely.

Phil Shadbolt [00:39:41]:

On your behalf because that'd be that'd just be awful. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine you've just gone shopping. You you think you're gonna come back to a full car and drive home, and and somebody's unplugged it. Yeah. Because they fancy putting it in theirs instead.

Liz Allan [00:39:54]:

So yeah. So -- You can't do that. Yeah. It does yeah. That that to me is is kind of sensible. So what's the silly question here. What is the weirdest question that somebody's rang up with?

Phil Shadbolt [00:40:09]:

Well, the the funniest one was a guy just got a brand new car, and he rang up and said, I I I wanna use your charger, don't know. I've got a clue where to plug it in in the car. So so we have to Google the car to find out that actually his socket to plug the car in was underneath the emblem on the front grill. So we just said to him, well, we just googled it. If you go down the front and push the push the emblem on the front, that will open be able to plug it in.

Liz Allan [00:40:37]:

Oh my god. But what that's the dealership, though, isn't it? If you just crawled it. I know. Is it Oh my goodness. Please do if you're listening.

Phil Shadbolt [00:40:47]:

Yeah. These days though, you go and pick up a car. They say here's the keys. Bye. Off you go.

Liz Allan [00:40:52]:

That's it. because they're just happy to get the DOS off you, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. I've I've done we've I've done there's another podcast episode that might come out have come out before for yours go goes out. But basically about what good looks like with regards to, you know, with with with regards to kind of dealerships because I've had situations and and experiences just going for test drives where I was talk I talked about one specific lady in in a a dealership in in Reading who's who who basically said to me, You sure you don't want your husband to come because it's quite expensive. And I was like, you don't give a monkey's love. He would he'd run a walk or or kinda cycle or get public transport because he works he's a climate change scientist. So, you know, it's just So so yeah. They're very, very, very different -- Yeah. -- kind of perspectives on on, you know, on an an information that's there. So I totally get it, but that that wasn't down to you, was it? Really? That was down to the dealership to actually take them through the car -- Yeah. -- to take them around it. I had a fantastic test drive last week at grid serve. So grid serve service is is obviously you know the the the one of the charge point operators, but they also lease cars. And and the guy that was taking me through, you know, kind of looking looking at the car showed me everything. You know, he was so knowledgeable. It just made a massive, massive difference. Very good. So yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's worth it's worth kind of actually jenning up yourself beforehand

Phil Shadbolt [00:42:31]:

because they're they're just not all really upon that information yet, are they? It's the fear of the unknown as well, isn't it? If you go from a petrol car. Yeah. You you you know you know what you've been doing for the last 20, 30 years, and then all of a sudden, it's a completely different system. So Yeah. People do get you know, we get calls from people who just say, I I really I've never charged a car before. I really don't know what to do. Can just talk me through it. And when you say, well, you just plug it in, and then you push a button instead of scan your card, they go, what was that it? Is that all I've got to do? Yeah. That is it. It's all you gotta do left. You showed me, didn't you? You showed me how it works and it's literally so easy.

Liz Allan [00:43:10]:

Yeah. You know, and if you've got any issues, there's a little QR code on the front. So, you know, it's not it's not a difficult. It's it's a rugged good system that is where the proof and it's, you know, it's it's kind of heat proof. It's cold proof. So there's all sorts of stuff. You've been the kind of person you are

Phil Shadbolt [00:43:31]:

designing it from the ground up -- Yeah. -- to me, it sounds the best way, you know, best way to do it, do something like this. It is. And and and we've learned so much along the way as well. You know, I think I think that's one of the things being a part of this project, having the university, having the council, along alongside us sort of critiquing and saying, well, have you thought about this? Have you done that? There's so many things that we've we've picked up along the way from the team that we've been working with to make sure that we can offer the best possible system. Mhmm. Mhmm. And that's that's been invaluable invaluable. As I say, the innovate UK project and the team that innovate allowed us to pull together on this has just been phenomenal to make sure that we can deliver a successful project.

Liz Allan [00:44:16]:

That's brilliant. It it does make yeah. I think you the way like, say way the way that you are, the the the council, and the the help that you'd had from Innovates made made a a massive difference of that. It really does demonstrate, I think. When you get a university,

Phil Shadbolt [00:44:34]:

a local authority, an innovative small business, and you put them all together in a room, and say, come on, guys. There's a problem to solve here. You can actually really do some really good stuff, and you you get the right team. You know? Get people like like Jennie and Paul at at the at the local authority. You've got guys like Malcolm McCulloch at the University of Oxford that just know their stuff, and are so dedicated to making sure that we deliver the best possible outcome. And and that and that's and that's what drives these things through. So it's it's been a privilege to be part of it and and see the whole thing come life and and actually work. So it's a it's a lovely project.

Liz Allan [00:45:16]:

I think you've done fantastically. I've got one final question, you know. And I'm sure you know this you knew this is coming because I'm warned you I was gonna ask you this. So you are an OBE. I am. You've got order of the British Empire please tell me how how did you when and how? What was it? When did you find out? And how how what did you when was this? it's quite design, though, because you don't you you don't get to find out that you've been put forward. You you just get a letter through,

Phil Shadbolt [00:45:46]:

and I got a letter through one morning at home. and it had something like it's from Downing Street. And I thought, oh, crack it. Well, I've done wrong now. And and and you saw you've seen a letter saying that you've been awarded, would you like to accept? And I was literally shaking. I had no idea. I have absolutely no idea this was coming. And it turns out, I I mean, you never really nobody nobody tells you, but I think what happened is because we've we've been very successful over the last 10 years with innovate UK and doing some awards and and winning some projects within about UK. I think somebody there recognized that we've done quite a lot at Zita. and realize that not only have we developed some very good products, but we do quite a lot with a local community. We work with the local schools. and and we put back in as as well. So I think that was recognized, and that was then put forward. But interesting, they rang they rang my wife about a year before interviewed her, and she never told me a thing.

Liz Allan [00:46:53]:

I know.

Phil Shadbolt [00:46:54]:

I don't know. I I couldn't do that. I couldn't keep a seat. like that, but she never told and when the letter came, she sort of said, yeah. Yeah. I knew about this. I knew this was coming.

Liz Allan [00:47:03]:

Oh. Oh, bless. So how long ago is it? How many years? Oh, I think it was 2015. Fantastic. Yeah. I mean, that's just amazing.

Phil Shadbolt [00:47:14]:

I just thought I'd look I'd say the best the last, of course. Yeah. Well, it's just such a lovely experience as well going to I was I was fortunate enough enough to actually meet the majesty, the queen, and and she was the one that gave it to me. And that was just the whole experience, the whole day was just wonderful. Absolutely. I can imagine.

Liz Allan [00:47:31]:

Oh, well done. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Across the board, all the stuff you've done, and all the stuff you're doing, keep doing it, Phil. Thanks very much. Just gotta keep doing it. You're doing a great job. I love it. I I love it. Yeah. So so if If there are any local authorities that want to contact you who are are inter who are interested in talking to you, Do I just should I just because I'm gonna add I'm gonna add easy charges website into the show notes anyway. where would you like them to contact you, or who's this who's the specific person they need to contact?

Phil Shadbolt [00:48:08]:

Yeah. No. Contact me on LinkedIn is probably the easiest way. but it's easy to find me on LinkedIn. I'm generally posting once a week on that. So have a look on there or have a look on the website. I think there's a contact form on the website. So, yeah, just get in touch and be pleased to help.

Liz Allan [00:48:27]:

So the website is ezed.dash charged.co.uk. That's it. Yeah. But, yeah, listen, Phil. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you again. I've really enjoyed it. thank you ever so much for your time. And I hope everybody else enjoys watching or listening to you. But, yeah, keep doing keep doing what you're doing. Thanks so much for joining me.

Phil Shadbolt [00:48:52]:

No problem.

Liz Allan [00:48:53]:

And to everybody else, I'm gonna say, see you next time. Goodbye.