Episode 113: Liz Allan and Pam Hanlon - RFID Cards, Salary Sacrifice, and Charging Innovations

Episode 113: Liz Allan and Pam Hanlon - RFID Cards, Salary Sacrifice, and Charging Innovations.

Liz Allan speaks to Pam Hanlon, Head of Sales at PAUA, who shares her remarkable journey from 20 years in banking to the renewable energy sector, highlighting the unique learning curve she faced in transitioning into the electric vehicle (EV) infrastructure. She dives into the innovative work at PAUA, discussing the challenges of fleet electrification, the benefits of RFID cards for EV charging, and how PAUA is simplifying public charging. Pam discusses her involvement in sustainability, her passion for making EV charging accessible, and her experiences in major events like the GreenFleet EV Rally.

Pam Hanlon Bio:
Pam Hanlon has an extensive background in customer service, banking, and financial advising, spanning over 20 years. After relocating from Ireland to Leeds, Pam transitioned from a finance-focused career into the renewable energy sector. She joined Phoenix Works, where she learned about the intricacies of the renewable energy industry, eventually leading to her current role at PAUA, a company at the forefront of simplifying public EV charging. Known for her hands-on approach and passion for customer service, Pam now helps businesses implement RFID card solutions for seamless EV charging across the UK. Outside of work, Pam is deeply committed to making EV charging accessible and empowering individuals and businesses to adopt more sustainable energy practices.

Pam Hanlon Links:
Website: https://www.paua.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pauaev/
Twitter: https://x.com/evpaua
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pamhanlon7069230b

Episode Keywords:
Electric vehicles, sustainable future, clean energy, RFIDs, EV charging, renewable energy, Phoenix Works, Power, Neil Riddle, public charging, preauthorization fees, driver education, EV infrastructure, salary sacrifice, electr

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Electric Evolution with Liz Allan. This podcast is about the journey to a more sustainable future in order for us to be able to do our bit to achieve net zero. I'll be discussing a variety of topics with experts in their field in order to educate and increase our knowledge of clean energy, electric vehicles, and the electric vehicle infrastructure. So whether you're an individual who wants to make a difference at home, a small business, or a corporate, this podcast is just for you.

Liz Allan 00.00
I have got the wonderful Pam Hanlon on today's episode. Now Pam is just the most lovely, lovely person, and I've got to say it's the first time she's been on a podcast. So Pam from Power, thank you for joining me, my darling. It's lovely to see you.

Pam Hanlon [00:00:50]:
For having me. I'm excited.

Liz Allan [00:00:52]:
And as we both said, we had a very, very, very, very long chat before we start recording. So I'm gonna cover some of the stuff we've talked about. Right.

Pam Hanlon [00:01:02]:
But Yeah. All of it's all of it. Right?

Liz Allan [00:01:04]:
No. Not all of it. No. We'll keep that those bits out. But listen, just yeah. Thank you. Let's get a little bit of background. You know, you've listened.

Liz Allan [00:01:16]:
I always talk about people's background because I always think that it's really important for people to understand a little bit about you. Tell me tell me what happened before power. Where what did you do before power? What's your what have you been kind of what was your background, and how did you get into into the organization?

Pam Hanlon [00:01:34]:
Okay. So I spent about 20 years working in banking, which is I started as a customer service agent in Bank of Ireland way back when. We're talking a long time ago. So I started as a a customer service agent and kinda funnily enough, I don't even know how it happened, but I kinda ended up working as a financial adviser, because my employer at the time or my manager at the time had found that I was quite good at closing deals. So you're not doing, like, balance transfers and stuff like that. Found that I was really good at doing that. So, ended up there. I was in the bank in in Ireland for, as I say, 20 odd years.

Pam Hanlon [00:02:20]:
Then I went into insurance, which is really health insurance. And then, I left Ireland, and I moved to Leeds about 10 years ago, went back into banking. Obviously, had my son in the meantime. Went back into banking in First Direct, worked there for a period of time, and then my son was going to school in, Farsley. So looked for a job in Farsley and found the Phoenix Works, and it sounded like an incredible opportunity, because it was in renewable energy. And I had I had no background in it. I'd know I didn't know anything about it. I went in for this job, and I met, Carly Woodhead, who did my interview at the time, and we sat down.

Pam Hanlon [00:03:08]:
And you know when you meet somebody and for, like, 10 minutes, you're just chitchatting and having a line, you just you just mesh really well. And then we kind of remembered that we needed to do an actual interview, so we did the interview. And I really, really wanted the job because at the time, the Phoenix Works were teamed teamed up with Tonic. If anybody remembers Tonic, who is an energy company back in the day, they they both worked together at the time, and I thought, this is something new. It's a new challenge. Something I've never had any like, coming from a finance background, renewable energy was probably the furthest thing away from that time. I started working in the Phoenix works. And and I mean, like, from not knowing anything, the amount of time and energy, Tom, Tom Newby and Matt Morgan, who were the CEO and CTO at the time.

Pam Hanlon [00:03:59]:
I'm pretty sure Matt was CTO, but not a 100% sure. The they put in time and effort, and Carly as well, and and a couple of the other people in the team, they really, you know, educated me in, like, what are installs? How do they work? What cable size do you need? All of everything that I could've I was so lucky that I landed up with them to get into this industry, and I worked with them for 4 years. And then, they were taken over by another company. And, Neil, actually, Laura, who works with Neil, Neil Yeah. I didn't notice until afterwards, but, Laura Neil had said to Laura he was looking for a salesperson. And, well, Laura said, if you're looking for sales, you're looking for Pam. So he reached out. We had a conversation.

Pam Hanlon [00:04:52]:
And, again, you know, like, it's meant to be a 15 minute meeting, an hour and a half later. We're sit sitting in our chairs, laughing back and forth, getting on and he's just such a good person. So I thought, you know what? Let's do it. Let's let's come over because it was a new challenge. I'd done sales, with the Phoenix Works. We'd done, like, 200% to Target. We brought that company to somewhere I I didn't know I was capable of doing it. I hadn't, because I didn't understand.

Pam Hanlon [00:05:22]:
I had to learn so much, but to take the company so far, through lockdown, through all the other things and all the other challenges that happened in that period of time. So I came over, met Neil, then I met Andre, who's the CTO. So the magic behind all the technology and how beautiful it is, the way that power works in the background. And, again, started working with power, and it's probably one of the best decisions I've ever met in my life. Like, these these people are incredible. Like, next level.

Liz Allan [00:05:58]:
So Niall Riddell was one of my first ever guest when I started the the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. He's he's an amazing, lovely, lovely guy. In fact, partway through, he stopped he stopped to tell dad jokes, which did make me chuckle.

Pam Hanlon [00:06:16]:
That joke.

Liz Allan [00:06:16]:
So if you ever if you wanna listen back, check out the earlier discussion.

Pam Hanlon [00:06:21]:
Have listened to that.

Liz Allan [00:06:23]:
With Niall. But yeah, he's CEO, isn't he? 

Pam Hanlon [00:06:29]:
And then and then Andre is the CTO, so he's the one who builds all the magnificentness that makes Paua.

Liz Allan [00:06:37]:
So tell us about Paua then. Like I say, just if you've listened to Niall, forget what you heard from Niall. Let's hear it from Pam. What does Paua do, and when when we talk about Paua, we are spell it we're spelling it p a u a for those of you that that don't know Paua.

Pam Hanlon [00:06:54]:
But pronounced like

Liz Allan [00:06:55]:
So tell us.

Pam Hanlon [00:06:56]:
Paua as in power, which is what people get confused with. So Niall is Neil, but spelled Nile, and then power is spelled Paua, not pooah, which is what people and that's his joke too. So I'm just taking a nod from him. So when I joined Paua, firstly, the reason I joined is obviously because the people were incredible, and and the interview process, it wasn't really an interview, went so well. But then I had to get into it and learn what it was because I didn't know what it was. So I'd come from a b to c background. This was completely different to a whole new challenge, b to b. So what is b to b? How do you get into it? And and, also, what is this what's the product? What are we what are we selling here? Right? So as a sales kind of person, that's what you've got to get into.

Pam Hanlon [00:07:46]:
So when we sat down, we went into it, and the guys were great. They did a lot of training in the background with me. A lot of people don't know, like, it's an RFID card, you know, radio frequency identification card. Like, what is that? How does it work? How does it connect? So what a lot of people are seeing at the moment or what you'll hear a lot of in at the moment is the preauthorization fees that happen with, like, a credit card or debit card.

Liz Allan [00:08:14]:
And this is for EV charging, isn't it? It's specifically for EV charging.

Pam Hanlon [00:08:19]:
And it's for what our main focus is to work with businesses currently. So when what it is is that you provide a business with cards so that their employees can go out and use the public network. By having this card, this magic pink card that they go up, they touch the card, the charge starts working, and off you go. That's it. There's no more, like, oh, it didn't work. It didn't connect. Or what's going on? When do I get the bill? How much is this gonna take out of my bank account? There's none of that. It takes away all of that.

Pam Hanlon [00:08:53]:
It also protects people against fraud. There's no card details, no personal details on it. All it has is, like, a a power number at the back of it, and that's it. So you don't have to worry about if someone finds my card, they're going to be able to rob all my money. None of that happens with an RFID card. And what I found out recently was initially they hadn't planned to have an RFID card because they have this incredible app that they've built that does every you know, everything that card has. But people like a physical thing that they can hold in their hand, but also covers you for both things. Right? So you have a card that you can walk up and touch because with an app, you might not have data signal.

Pam Hanlon [00:09:34]:
So you might not be able to charge off an app, so we covered both. And then with the app, you can also start charging from the app as well. So you just stand in front of the charger. You select the charger you're on. You click charge, and off you go. It's done. It's easy. That's the whole point of PowWow and why PowWow was built was to make public charging easy.

Pam Hanlon [00:09:55]:
And that's that's that's the end goal. Right? We just want anybody who adopts to an electric vehicle to make their life easier. You know? So you walk up, you plug it in, and off you go. On the app, we've built in things like, are the charge points available before you get there? How much is it gonna cost before you get there? Because these are all things that you don't know. Right? We've also built in a route planner. So, you know, if you're going from I always use Leeds to London because I'm in Leeds, and Neil is in London. So you put in the Yeah. Planner where you're going, and it will show you all of the power enabled chargers along that journey.

Pam Hanlon [00:10:31]:
We've also built in things like filters. So what speed charger are you looking for, what connector type are you looking for, and how many hubs would you like to be in a hub? How many available chargers would you like to be there when you get there? So you can select anything from 1 up to 10. So when these are all all of these additional things that we keep building are all things that customers have told us that they want. So that's what we've done. Every time somebody comes back to us with an idea, we take the idea on board, it goes in, and then we see how quickly we can implement it for them. And that's that's kind of the beauty about power. It isn't it isn't run by anybody else. There's nobody power is built and designed by power.

Pam Hanlon [00:11:13]:
There's nobody outside telling us what we need to do or how we need to do it. It's all internal conversations about what is working best for customers. And then, obviously, we've built the dashboard, and the dashboard provides the fleet manager with all of the insights, reporting capabilities, probably more features than you will ever need. But if you do need them, they're there. If they're not there, ask us, and we'll get them for you. That's the beauty, and that's why I I love being with Power so much is that they don't they're not, you know, waiting for somebody else to tell them what to do. They listen to the customers. Whatever the customers tell us that they're looking for, that's going to be one of the things that we're going to build next because that's you know, we've built this from the ground up to do what it is.

Pam Hanlon [00:11:59]:
Public charging for us isn't an afterthought. It's not something that we've been dragged in to do. It's our only thought. It's what we wake up in the morning getting ready do on a daily basis, and that's what I love about being here. You know? And then we work on so many different products. Although Paua Access, which is providing access to 53 actually, I think we're 55,000 connectors nationwide, like, building something like that and then having the card with it. So having Paua access has now linked us into being able to do Paua reimburse. What Paua reimburse does is it looks for looks after the personal and business drivers, you know, personal versus business mileage.

Pam Hanlon [00:12:44]:
Like, we all know the AER rate is mainly good for people who have home charge in as long as they can get on the cheaper tariffs at night. Right? But if they can't, then and they're paying the more expensive rates. How do they get reimbursed fairly? And then public taking public charging into that with the AER rate, like your miles out of pocket. Like, we were we did a calculation based on when it was 9 p, then it went to 8 p. Now it's 7 p. But our calculation on the 9p worked out that if drivers are using 20% public charging, they're up to £400 out of pocket if they're being reimbursed for the AR rate. Yeah. If you increase that up to 50%, that's a £1,000 out of their pocket.

Pam Hanlon [00:13:35]:
Like, a lot of those drivers are drivers that aren't on really high wages and are not, you know, making tons of money. So when you hit them with £1,000, you really hit them. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why we've built reimburse. We built Paua reimburse to be able to help personal and business drivers, but also business only drivers. Right? Because as I said earlier, the whole thing is to make public charging easy. But now we're going into a space where it's not only public charging.

Pam Hanlon [00:14:07]:
It's also home charging, depot charging, taking all of these different charging locations and putting them into one place so it's easy for the business and for the drivers because that's who we're trying to look after. Right? Making sure that everybody can access public home and depot charging, putting all of those 3 different locations into one place and giving them back that information. Because that's what we're about. Right? It's just trying to make it easy. So let's just make it easy.

Liz Allan [00:14:37]:
Exactly. Because like you say, you don't want you don't want somebody to feel that they are they are using either their home charging or or public charging and think that they're not able to to get to get the money back. So at least you're giving them

Pam Hanlon [00:14:51]:
That's the most important thing. Like, where it hits me and where I always think about it is if Bob poor Bob. I always use Bob as an example. I don't know who Bob is, but we'll say Bob. If Bob is using his personal card for charging, he's not only been stung with the charging cost. He's got pre-authorisation fees that are now gonna come out of his bank account as well. Right? And it's not like they get returned tomorrow. Some of them can take up to 10 days, maybe longer.

Pam Hanlon [00:15:24]:
So if you're at the end of your month before you get paid, right, and you're trying to charge your car for work, but also or charge a vehicle, whichever vehicle it is, for work. But you also need to, like, get to dinner. You need to do the last week shopping, and you're using your card. So it hasn't only taken the charging cost. It's taken your preauthorisation cost. It's, like, 2 or 3 week 2 or 3 days before payday. Like, which decision are you gonna make? Because I know I'm gonna choose feeding my family over putting electric into my car, So that's why the RFID card works so perfectly because you don't have to worry about any of that. You don't have to look at your life situation and try and make a choice.

Pam Hanlon [00:16:06]:
You've got this little pink card in your hand, and you'd walk up, you touch it, and off you go. Do know what I mean? It's it's easy.

Liz Allan [00:16:14]:
So with regards to the types of companies that you're working with, and you mentioned about fleet managers, but what size do you go from? And so, I mean, as a fleet managers, I I know, for example, Lorna McAtear at National Grid has got thousands of vehicles, hasn't she? Yeah. But, I mean, when we're looking at kind of the companies that you're dealing with, are we looking at kind of just a few people in a company, right, up to massive ones? Is how does it work?

Pam Hanlon [00:16:39]:
So we go from as little as 2 all the way up to, like you know, we Royal Mail is one of our customers. So you go from, like, you go from, like, 2 drivers all the way up to however many you need. The beauty about Paua is that it's buildable and changeable and that we have control over that. So we get to go from 2. We this is what I mean. We wanna help everybody. So anything from a fleet of 2 up to 4,000,000, whatever. You know? It makes no difference.

Pam Hanlon [00:17:10]:
It's for everybody. Anybody who is part of a fleet or great fleet, you know, personal and business drivers. You know, anyone like that, that's kind of the point of what we want to do. We're trying to help everybody. That's that's what we want to do.

Liz Allan [00:17:25]:
I mean, and I've got a Paua card because I was helping with something, so there are a couple of Paua cards. Yeah. I have

Pam Hanlon [00:17:33]:
I have

Liz Allan [00:17:33]:
And actually, I've got to say it. I've got to say I love Pam's wearing a pink scarf for those of you listening or watching in black and white. And it is the colour. It is the Paua colour, isn't it? And, actually

Pam Hanlon [00:17:48]:
And the navy dress, actually. I totally wore the colour.

Liz Allan [00:17:50]:
You go. And every time I go to an event, there's you and Laura and Niall there or the rest of the team, and you can see them; they stand out so brilliantly.  No. I mean that in a lovely way. But, actually, it's because you're called the Paua Rangers, aren't you? Which I love. I love everybody calls you the Power Rangers because we, you know, you're just out there, and all the stuff that you're doing is brilliant. From my point of view, using the Paua took out a lot of stress, really, because sometimes you can go to a public charge and you don't always know what you're getting.

Liz Allan [00:18:34]:
And like you said, the preauthorisation fees can be up to £45.

Pam Hanlon [00:18:39]:
I've actually heard them at, like, 90.

Liz Allan [00:18:41]:
And that's just, and that's just mad, and I know that's not necessarily to do with the charge point operator. I know that's the bank. Because Yeah. So because I've heard people kind of asking the question, how come if you've got a pre-auth fee pre authorisation fee at a petrol station, you get it back more or less straight away? There's some difference in and I and I don't know what it is. I don't think I've got an answer for this podcast episode as to why the pre-auth takes quite a long time to actually be taken back off your card. But, actually, my very, first, it wasn't public charging. It was private charging. My first experience was doing some work up in Nuneaton. We'd only had our car for a very short length of time.

Liz Allan [00:19:26]:
And I thought, right, I'll book into a hotel that's got a charging. And there were 10 connectors there. And for my very first experience, it was shocking. It really was. The app wouldn't work. It, it tried to connect to my bank twice and pre authed for £45 times 2.

Pam Hanlon [00:19:46]:
Yep.

Liz Allan [00:19:46]:
You know? And actually, because if you have these things, you know, there's not please, for those of you who are new to EV or thinking about getting an EV, please don't let this put you off because there are certain companies that will do this, but there are other ones that don't. There are other net networks that will only kind of take a a pound pre auth and things like that. So and some work with their banks to kind of provide it back, you know, put it back in your bank account earlier. Yeah. But this one was I didn't have a power card then. Like I say, couldn't get the app. I tried twice and it failed. On the third time, I just thought there's no way I'm gonna have, like, a 135 quids worth of pre auth fees on my bank.

Liz Allan [00:20:30]:
So I gave up. You know?

Pam Hanlon [00:20:33]:
And and that, not always again. Like, it happens on occasions. But that that is what we're trying to get away from, to be able to, like and even in businesses, they'll have limits on cards. Right? If you get a load of preauthorization fees on your on your business card, then you might not be able to have the facility to charge. And we all know how important it is for drivers to be able to get back on the road to do the job they need to do. Right? So spending however long trying to download apps, use your card, get this thing, do that thing. That's why we've connected with over, I think, 36, over 35 different ChargePoint operators Mhmm. To be able to allow people to just go up, tap their card, the green light comes on, and off they go on their merry little way.

Pam Hanlon [00:21:26]:
Go get your cup of coffee. Go get your sandwich for your lunch. Come back, sit down, eat it, unplug, and off you go. Do you know what I mean? It's it's as I said, and I keep saying, it is about making it easy, and that's that's kind of what we're trying to do here.

Liz Allan [00:21:42]:
And we don't want we don't want it to be complicated, do we? As a as a, you know, as an EV driver myself, what you're providing me with is a method of standardized, you know, kind of use. So I know what I'm getting from my from my power cards. But, actually, I tap I tap and plug in, and it and it just works. It just works. And it takes all of that that kind of stress and strain away. I know, obviously, if you're a consumer, it's slightly it's slightly different because, you know but if you have got the ability to kind of build or get power sort of I'm not just saying this because I'm not trying to be your salesperson, I'm really not. But actually, from my point of view, that's what it's done for me. You know, it's it's made it so much easier just to be able to tap rather than have all that all that kind of fact that sometimes you don't know whether you're tapping and then plugging in.

Liz Allan [00:22:34]:
Sometimes you put, you know, sometimes you're doing I mean, you'd kind of end up doing a bit of a jig sometime. You know, do I what do I have to use the app? Do I have to do that? Can I use contactless? And we know that the regulations that I think is it for over 7 kilowatts. I'm not quite sure. In November, there's, you know, there's they've got to have contactless

Pam Hanlon [00:22:55]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:22:56]:
By then. So all all public charging and private charging should be using contactless above a certain number of kilowatts. I think it's 7 numb 7 and above. I think above 7.

Pam Hanlon [00:23:05]:
I think they've said, like, 8 and above. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:23:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I knew it was it wasn't quite the overnight charges, was it?

Pam Hanlon [00:23:12]:
Or like your own chargers or your slower on street chargers, which are incredible. It's those it's those faster ones. But because we offer, like, a range of slow, fast, rapid, ultra rapid, you know, we've got 77% of all of the rapid chargers in the UK. All of them. And then, with slower chargers, we charge we, collaborate with companies like Chargee or ChargeMyStreet to make it easier for people who can't have or or don't have chargers on their house for them to be able to use those slower chargers. We've got, like, Source London again, another slower charger. A lot of our customers will be people who work on like, they'll pull up and they'll work in a place for a period of time. So they don't need rapid chargers.

Pam Hanlon [00:24:04]:
Right? So they don't have to pay for rapid chargers. They can use the slower chargers, bringing down their costs and allowing them to park while they work all day.

Liz Allan [00:24:14]:
Yeah.

Pam Hanlon [00:24:15]:
So they're not paying parking prices or not. Do you know what I mean? It's allowing people to look at let charging fit into their life, not put their life around charging. That's that's the beauty of it. Right? So there are so many options out there for people. And, you know, even all these new technologies that are starting to come in, anything that helps move us forward in the right direction is the most important thing. Right? So maybe electric charging isn't for literally every single person. As we move and progress on, there will be different options. It's just finding what option is right for you, and it's the same with the speed of the chargers as well.

Pam Hanlon [00:24:54]:
In some businesses, yes, getting on a rapid charger, getting charged, and getting out the door is great. If you need to if you're working in a place for maybe 4 or 5 hours, maybe longer, charge while you're doing that. Don't pay for parking and then go pay for for for charging. You know? Do what is it? Kill 2 birds with 1 stone?

Liz Allan [00:25:15]:
Absolutely. So, you

Pam Hanlon [00:25:17]:
know, and it's these things that people don't always know about that we like to help and educate people. I mean, if you the blogs that Neil has written, Ethan, I've written a few, which is something I've never done before

Liz Allan [00:25:29]:
I went to. You.

Pam Hanlon [00:25:30]:
But you do them all the time as well. So, like, it's all about people who are in the know of trying to educate and help the people who haven't made a transition or even if they had, given them little hints and tips to make their lives easier. You know?

Liz Allan [00:25:44]:
Totally agree. Totally agree. There are so many people out there. I don't know whether you saw there was, I can't remember. It's the energy and climate unit climate intel energy and climate intelligence unit that Colin Walker, is part of. They there was a a poll kind of I think they shared it in the in the mirror, and somebody else shared it on a a kind of WhatsApp group I'm in. And it basically said the number of people who don't know anything about EVs. They've just heard stuff and inverted commas.

Liz Allan [00:26:18]:
And a lot of that stuff isn't always the truth. Do you know what I mean? And, actually, what you're doing, what Neil's doing, what we're trying to do is help those those potential drivers who are thinking about it to kind of actually understand this a little bit more. And, actually you and I know some people don't like the word education, but, actually, you know

Pam Hanlon [00:26:42]:
It is

Liz Allan [00:26:43]:
What else is it?

Pam Hanlon [00:26:44]:
If I know something and you don't know it and I help you get to know that thing, what is that word called?

Liz Allan [00:26:50]:
Exactly. Exactly.

Pam Hanlon [00:26:52]:
That's good. A woman at an event, last year, the British motor show. Laura was up on a panel, and she was trying to teach, help, and educate people by answering their questions. And there was a a lady, sat behind us, and she was you could tell that she wanted to make the change or she wanted to move over to electric, but she wasn't sure. She didn't want the commitment of it. So the panel had ended, and I just turned around to her. And I said, listen. Have you got 5 minutes afterwards? And we'll just go outside and have a chat.

Pam Hanlon [00:27:28]:
So we went outside anyway, and I said to her, like, what's preventing you? She's like, I I just don't know. Like, I'm nervous. I've I hear all these stories. And I turned around and I said to her, listen. The best advice I can give anybody who is thinking about getting an EV is to go and rent one for a period of time, you know, a week, a weekend, a long weekend. Try it for yourself. Stop listening to all the outside nights because I can't tell you what you are going to like no more than somebody else can tell you, oh, you won't like an EV. How do how do they know? How do you know what somebody else will like? Right? Exactly.

Pam Hanlon [00:28:06]:
They will only know if they go, they try it for themselves, they make their own decision, and then come back. So but she was, like, had never thought about doing something like this, but there's so many options out there for people, like, to be able to go out and, like, hire cars for a period of time, trial it for themselves. You know, there's so many different ways that you can learn how try it for yourself. And if it's not right now that you don't maybe you don't like the EVs right now. Or try it again another 6 months. You know? Keep on trialing it. It's like when you're a child I always go back to this. When you're a child and you don't like food, right, and then you try it a while later, and all of a sudden, you're like, oh, I've missed out on all these years liking this really cool food that I now love.

Liz Allan [00:28:55]:
Yeah.

Pam Hanlon [00:28:55]:
It's it's all about that, isn't it? It's trial and error. See if you like it. See if you don't. But nobody else can tell you anything. Like, I have a really funny story. So I was at home in Ireland with my sister. Right? And her electricity meter is outside her house. And because I used to work with installing chargers, obviously, I was trying to convince my sister to go and get an electric car.

Pam Hanlon [00:29:18]:
It's like like, Deb, your your electricity meter is on the outside of your house. Perfect location for a charger. You know, it'd be great. So her mother-in-law comes over, and she, oh, what are you talking about, girls? And I said, oh, I'm just trying to get Deborah into getting an electric vehicle. And she was like, an electric vehicle, Pam? I was like, yeah. She's like, in Ireland. I was like, yeah. And she's like, what about the puddles? I was like, pardon.

Pam Hanlon [00:29:45]:
And she's like, the puddles.

Liz Allan [00:29:46]:
Oh, Vanessa.

Pam Hanlon [00:29:48]:
Oh, Trish. Like, what what what do you think is gonna happen? Like, what and she was, obviously, it's the, you know, scaremongering, oh, you can't drive an electric vehicle through a puddle. But they go through puddles much better than petrol or diesel do. Right? So you I mean, they they glide through them so much easier than what you would. And it's that scaring thing that we need to like, why? Why are you trying to scare somebody? Why would you not help them make up their own mind and tell them, go try it?

Liz Allan [00:30:21]:
Mhmm. Well, it's because they're reading all a load of rubbish in the news or whatever, whichever newspaper they're reading, whichever one wants to stab EVs in the back or whatever. And, actually, I mentioned this a long time ago, but probably in January, I drove through a flood in our car. I must admit, I was scared. A word that I won't actually say, but I was very scared because I don't like floods because I have a friend who had this is years ago. She had a Saab 9 3 soft top convertible. And she was picking me up and my friend from the airport. Like I say, this is, like, late nineties, so a long, long time ago.

Liz Allan [00:31:03]:
And her car died in a flood. So I am a little bit cautious when it comes to floods. Yes. We had no choice. There were cars behind us, cars in front of us, and actually, I just had to just go through it. And our EV was brilliant.

Pam Hanlon [00:31:19]:
Yeah. I mean, that's what I mean about trialling it. Right? You were scared. You trialed it. Now you know it's okay. Yeah. And this this is the thing. It's like, try it for yourself.

Pam Hanlon [00:31:30]:
Stop. Ignore the outside noise because nobody can tell you what you like and what you don't like. Absolutely. Try it for yourself. That's always been my my message to everybody is see for yourself how it goes, you know, and and figure it out for you. And if you if it didn't work for you then, maybe it'll work for you now. If it doesn't work for you now, maybe it'll work in 6 months.

Liz Allan [00:31:52]:
Yep. And you can actually so you can either rent them from I know that Europ Car has got quite a lot of EVs that, you know, you can you can hire them. You can you can the subscription services where you can have them for, like, a minimum of a month, and you can keep changing vehicles until you find one you like.

Pam Hanlon [00:32:10]:
And the secondhand market is getting, you know, incredible now. Like, enterprise do it. Eurocar do it. Mhmm. Hertz do it as far as I know. Okay. There's that many companies out there who do it. And then looking for a secondhand electric vehicles, that market is now starting to grow substantially.

Pam Hanlon [00:32:28]:
Yeah. And, actually, the cost of EVs is starting to come down. There's now companies who are doing EVs for the same prices. They're doing their petrol and diesel versions. So it's now the time to try it, see how you like it. And and that expense part is not as daunting as it may have been before. Like, you have a home charger installed. You use a public charger as and when you need to.

Pam Hanlon [00:32:52]:
And if you've got depot charging in work, make the most of it.

Liz Allan [00:32:56]:
You know

Pam Hanlon [00:32:56]:
what I mean? Especially if they're doing it for a lower cost or for free. Make the most of it. You know? It can be extremely cost saving to switch to an EV now.

Liz Allan [00:33:06]:
Oh, total so it costs us £3 to charge from, kinda, empty to full on our home charger. You know, when I was when if I I could get I know how many miles I could get from our VW Golf. I'm trying to think. It was about 300 something maybe. I can't even remember now. But, but I know that that even then, it was costing me £75 for a full tank.

Pam Hanlon [00:33:30]:
Yeah. You know what I mean? And if you're doing that on a weekly basis, you can see how quickly it wraps wraps up where you're able to save all of that additional cost. Like, if you're doing it for, what does your car mileage do currently?

Liz Allan [00:33:44]:
Well, currently, ours is quite low. So because we've got a smaller battery. So our battery size is 38.5. So in the summer, maximum we get is about just under 200. But in the winter, obviously, you get kind of a drop in mileage. We get about 160 ish, but I don't drive drive more than a 100 and I tend to stop after a 120 miles, 100, 120 miles because I need the loop.

Pam Hanlon [00:34:10]:
My bladder won't let me go that long of a distance without having to stop to go

Liz Allan [00:34:15]:
out and do it.

Pam Hanlon [00:34:16]:
Right? But even back to what you're like, if you're, petrol or diesel, it cost you £75. And to do more mileage, actually, on 2 charges at home, it would cost you £6. Yeah. So you're saving yourself 69 pound for doing the same journey or longer, actually, in an EV. Yeah. So it makes sense. Right?

Liz Allan [00:34:38]:
It does. Absolutely.

Pam Hanlon [00:34:39]:
People then who can't have home chargers on them, and what they need to do then is to rely be able to rely on public charging. So helping them go from different options of chargers, different ranges of chargers, I mean, with nation how is nationwide coverage? So true nationwide coverage. So helping people go from I think we did the EV rally back back, what, 3 years ago where we did John Groats to Oh, yes. Lands' End?

Liz Allan [00:35:09]:
Yeah. You did it. That's a you know,

Pam Hanlon [00:35:11]:
I'm telling you. Years ago. People have been saying, oh, the infrastructure isn't there. And I get that it's patchy. Right? I I get that. I'm not saying it's not there. With power, on average, you're never more than 5 5 miles away from a power enabled charger. That's how many chargers.

Pam Hanlon [00:35:27]:
And we have what you do well, we have over half of the network connected with now. Right? So if you think about that on a full level, if we had every single charger in the UK, you would be never more than, like, 2, 2 and a half miles from a power enabled charger. Like, that's like, and people talk about, range anxiety, and I get it from, like, before.

Liz Allan [00:35:51]:
Yeah.

Pam Hanlon [00:35:52]:
But times have changed, lads. Stop spinning the story from way back when. No. It's not the case anymore. Yeah. It can be more challenging for vans and trucks and stuff, but we are working on other products prod projects to help that along as well. So we've just announced that we're doing the innovation project for Power Pins, which is private infrastructure network solution.

Liz Allan [00:36:16]:
Okay.

Pam Hanlon [00:36:17]:
So working with companies like, we we've teamed up with, like, Oxfordshire and Suffolk County Council and also Cenex. And I'm pretty sure Sperry is in there as well, which we all know and love. Yeah. So you will see that there's a lot of, different it's all about collaboration. Right? So we're all coming together to build this infrastructure to be able to share those private networks with other companies to be able to allow them access to make money, basically, for the company who has installed those chargers, allow them to be able to make money when they when they couldn't normally, but also to allow those bigger trucks and vans and all of those, you know, buses and stuff like that to be able to charge and use each other's networks instead of everybody putting in more infrastructure and not being able to make money out of it. So their return on investment increases significantly by being able to share this. And, Paolo, like, we love being part of innovation projects. It's it's like again, it's that helping everybody to be able to access charging.

Pam Hanlon [00:37:28]:
Right? So it's that making it possible for things that may seem impossible.

Liz Allan [00:37:33]:
And, actually, I suppose if you're thinking about vans and vans and trucks, and I was talking, and this would probably be around out around the same time as as as this podcast episode. I was talking to Amy Carter from DAF. And and, actually, you know, there it's a it's a very different requirement for a van or a truck, isn't it? Some vans like your DHL size can fit. I've seen them in our kind of local, you know, kind of rapid charger kinda in in the little hub note near to us so they they can fit. But if we're talking about trucks, anything that's an arctic or anything like that, then that's a different requirement. So I suppose opening up your the networks to give them the ability to use other people's depots is brilliant because not not all their vans or trucks are gonna come back until the end of the day, are they?

Pam Hanlon [00:38:23]:
Exactly. Or maybe even if you may have plates then. Use that during the day, you may be able to you know, if they charge during the day but don't charge at night, then you can open your network at night, and you're able to, you know, make the most out of the infrastructure that's already there. Right? Mhmm. But there's actually really interestingly, with different types of trucks, they need different types of turning, which is something I didn't know or or didn't consider. Right? Because I'm not in that industry.

Liz Allan [00:38:49]:
Yeah.

Pam Hanlon [00:38:50]:
There's so many things that you learn on a daily basis about other industries that and and and, like, even truck turning or how one part turns and the other part turns after it, which Amy obviously will know loads about because she's incredible. Right? And so being able to learn these things all the time to be able to help and change and make a difference is is is incredible. Right? We all get to learn and share about different things that we learn on a daily basis. And doing projects like this, innovation projects for power, is it's incredible for us to be able to be a part of it. But we want to be a part of it because we can do it. We can help because we build our own technology, and it's all in house with us. It's incredible to be able to go, right, how can we help other people do these other things as well?

Liz Allan [00:39:45]:
And you've been involved in in many other innovation projects, because I know that that kind of that's something that Neil Riddle, your CEO, has kind of been wanted to be involved in. So, what are the what actually, do you know what? Yeah. Give me an example of something else, and then we'll talk about the EV rally because we can't miss that.

Pam Hanlon [00:40:04]:
No. We definitely can't. So, other in a pro innovation projects that we worked on, we worked on one recently, actually, which was for, like, fraud prevention and how to do fraud telematics. We trialed connected car. We trialled, you know, how to like, because we our cards, you can freeze and unfreeze them. If you lose them, you know, like, you might lose your bank card on a Saturday night, find it down the sofa on a Sunday morning. Not that that's ever happened to me or anything like that. And you can just log in to your app.

Pam Hanlon [00:40:43]:
You can freeze it and unfreeze it. Right? So the same way you can with your with your bank card. Working on little projects like this allows us to collaborate with other companies and figure out ways of doing this. We connected car. I would say I don't I don't wanna, like, run it down or anything. It's just not there yet like a lot of other things, like, that plug and go. Yeah. Like, we we we know how we will do that.

Pam Hanlon [00:41:14]:
So do like, we've done we've we've done it, but we just need everybody else to catch up with us. And I think connected car and other things, they're all coming. It's all innovation that's coming and will get there. It's just probably not there yet. Mhmm. But as we know, this industry changes and grows and improves on a daily. Absolutely. Daily.

Pam Hanlon [00:41:34]:
Right? So, yeah, helping on projects and doing projects like this for us is is is great because Niall like, he's such a good guy. Like, he is just the salt of the earth. He's such a good guy. He just wants to help everybody, whether that's making introductions to people or sharing knowledge or any of those things. That's just who he is at his core. He's just a good guy. And so I I think that's as many as we can help and we can do, we will absolutely spend time doing this to help bring everybody on this journey with us.

Liz Allan [00:42:12]:
I can't agree with you more about Niall. Like I say, he is just the nicest, most helpful chap, and his creativity is fantastic.

Pam Hanlon [00:42:25]:
Next level.

Pam Hanlon [00:42:27]:
Yeah. And it just and just ideas he comes out up with and, like, putting those into place and, like, figuring out how they work. It's it's incredible. You know? We we, we do a joke. Right? Because we're we're similar, but we're not similar. Right? So we're we're similar in ways, but we're absolutely completely different in other ways. What when we started, we would have our, you know, our monthly meeting catch up. So what we figured out is we have to record them because we bounce so many ideas back and forth that neither one of us were capturing these things. So because our brains work similarly but differently, it's it's 2 different perspectives on an idea.

Pam Hanlon [00:43:09]:
But I love doing having those sessions with him is great. We just need something to record it first. So it but it's so cool. Like, I really, enjoy working with him and the rest of the team. Like, I always describe it as, like, a in Paua Yeah. And it just and it. It's like a group of extraordinary people coming together to make what almost seems impossible possible. Like, our CTO, if you say to him, can you build this thing? He or his response is always, technically, anything is possible, Pam. Mhmm.

Pam Hanlon [00:43:43]:
So, I mean, when you've got people that you work with mindsets like that, it's grown like, coming from a banking background and then insurance and then into this industry. It like, that we're just, and then we'd said this earlier. It's a different breed of people. Right? They're just they're just we're just a different kind of everybody has the same goal trying to push everything forward. So to make things better for everybody else, it's not just about me, myself, and I, and what can I do to get to the next step? That isn't what we're about. We're trying to make this a better thing for everybody.

Liz Allan [00:44:20]:
Absolutely. Like you say, it's just moving along all the time. Talk about moving along. We I want to talk about that you mentioned the EV rally earlier, and you've been involved, like you say now.

Pam Hanlon [00:44:33]:
Yeah. My I think I'd only started in Paua, like, a week or 2 weeks before the first rally Yeah. Which was last year.

Liz Allan [00:44:44]:
So tell me how Paua got involved with the rally because you basically provided the charging ability for all of the teams. Like, this year, when I was on the rally this year, the Greenfleet EV rally, over 5 days. We did about 1500 miles over 5 days, didn't we? You did it in a van. I don't know how the heck you did it. You did it with in a van with what was your top mileage that you could get?

Pam Hanlon [00:45:10]:
It was a second hand EMV 200 that does up to a 100 and yeah. What did I did I say Nissan?

Liz Allan [00:45:22]:
No. Sorry.

Pam Hanlon [00:45:27]:
So, yeah, we it could do up to a 120 miles. We've never pushed it that far. Right? But it was it's a Chathamau charger too. Right? So when you talk about infrastructure and finding chargers so when we when we sat down about the rally right? So it's usually me, Laura, and Niall in a conversation because we're the wackiest ones that come up with the craziest ideas. Right? So it's usually the 3 of us in a meeting thinking and we have these these these meetings start, like, maybe 2, 3 months before the rally even kicks off. Like, we're in planning before that. So when we sat down and we talked about, right, because this is our 3rd year to do the EV rally, what can we could we know the infrastructure is there? Right? Because we're connected to most of it. So we were trying to see what else could we do to make it more challenging.

Pam Hanlon [00:46:17]:
Because Right? So we came up with we will do we'll get a second hand van and a second hand car. Right? Both with about a 120 mile range on them, and boat, let's see if we can make it extremely difficult for us.

Liz Allan [00:46:41]:
And you did.

Pam Hanlon [00:46:42]:
We really didn't. We underestimated the challenge, not because of the charge in network infrastructure. It had not we couldn't we we charged every time we went. We didn't really struggle with that. Right? Yeah. People always go, oh, the EV rally. Sure. I could do that in 2 days.

Pam Hanlon [00:46:58]:
That's what people were saying to me 2 days before I went in it. I could do that in 2 days. No problem. I'm like, right. Now do it in a secondhand van that's not supposed to do that mileage, and we weren't the only ones. Like, Lorna, her every vehicle she had 4 vehicles on the rally. None of them are designed none of them are designed to do this type of journey. Right?

Liz Allan [00:47:20]:
Yeah.

Pam Hanlon [00:47:21]:
So it was it was about putting that putting those vehicles to the test. And when you put a second hand vehicle to a test like that, especially doing, what, 1,500 miles plus your journey to get there and your journey to get home, because people forget about that bit. Right? Yeah. They're like, oh, that's so easy. I could do that. What they don't take into account is doing that journey with either a person or a group of people having to be on show constantly being like, having those conversations, the toll it takes on you. Like, one night we got in a half 12. We were up at 6 o'clock the next morning, being on the road.

Pam Hanlon [00:48:00]:
Well, we were up earlier, but on the road at, like, quarter past 6, being in a vehicle with somebody for 5 days, solid. It is it does take its toll on you, and then you have to get to your stop. You have to make sure you're there. And people are like, oh, it's easy. It might be easy if you're in a vehicle that does 400 miles without having to be charged, and you're on your own, and you do things while you're in the car. But it's it's not it's not that it's, like, that it's a physical challenge. It's a mental challenge. Right? And as well, that's what I saw.

Pam Hanlon [00:48:39]:
But what I did take away from this one is that and the last one as well. The group of people who are in this industry are next level. Right? Everybody's so willing to help each other, make sure everyone's okay, everyone's checking in. Like, Sam on the motorbike, everybody was like, where is he? Is he okay? Is he alright? I'm making sure that we're all okay, but we're all looking out for each other at the same time. And, also, the scenery we saw Wow. Those images will be in my head forever. You know? Going to places that I would probably have never gone to, seeing tY, which could do 300 and or 200 odd miles or whatever. You know? But, actually, it was still it still took its toll. And we were we I wasn't driving all the time. But, again, like you say, you're we were I was kinda still posted on social media, and I was up late writing the post.

Liz Allan [00:50:06]:
That was just for me. And, Michele, who works with me at Full Circle, she was doing the stuff for the Women Drive Electric team, which is the team I was part of. So, you know, she was doing that in the background. And, I mean, on the day that she was with us, there was no network, and it was really that's, you know, kind of the the Wi Fi network or any cellular network. It was really hard to get onto and stuff like that. So you're trying to post, and you're going to a number of different checkpoints that you've got to go to.

Pam Hanlon [00:50:34]:
Yeah. You know? To check-in at each one. And then, like, if for any reason that you can't get there or you miss the people or you were supposed to be there at a certain time to meet somebody Mhmm. It's, you know, you've it's like it's a lot, but it's worth it.

Liz Allan [00:50:50]:
So for you guys, yours was probably triple the difficulty of hours, but I still you know, for us, it was still kind of really hard work. I was absolutely shattered afterwards. I mean, I was kind of I think I was the only driver that was there for the whole 5 days because lots of everybody that joined, you know, so, like

Pam Hanlon [00:51:08]:
In your group. 

Liz Allan [00:51:08]:
Yeah. Yeah. George and Michelle who run Women Drive Electric, they both have small kids. So I was like, oh, yeah. I'll be there. I can be the driver for all 5 days. Don't worry about it.

Liz Allan [00:51:19]:
You know? And then I was just like, oh my god.

Pam Hanlon [00:51:22]:
I know.

Liz Allan [00:51:23]:
You know? So, yeah, it is it is quite taxing. But your Paua card looked after how many teams were there? Was it 30 teams, 20 teams? I can't remember now.

Pam Hanlon [00:51:34]:
I know there was 50 something vehicles. Yeah. So it was, like, 50 something vehicles, but drivers change in daily,

Pam Hanlon [00:51:41]:
So some companies had people changing daily, so we need to make sure those cards were active and ready to go, and everybody had everything they needed. And this year, we wanted to do something different. So, normally, it's the plastic card. Right? So we were we always like to have an element of surprise in our little Paua packs that we send out.

Pam Hanlon [00:52:02]:
So this year, it was, the, wooden cards, and to have those, but also to drive that renewable energy. You know, let's help towards saving the planet because that's what this is for. Right? So let's help let's instead of doing a plastic card, let's do a wooden card, and let's see how that goes. Because, again, it's all trial and error. This is not something that other people use all the time, is it? So let's see how it connects. Let's see what we can get back. And, yes, it is an RFID card, so it should work like all other cards work.

Pam Hanlon [00:52:38]:
And luckily for us, it did, and people were still able to charge and great. Now we did have backups as and when if anybody needed them, we had the other ones as well. So we did we had the amount preparation that goes into the EV rally, especially for us because we're looking we're trying to get the power packs out. We're trying because we want you know, it's like, get people excited about it. That's why we do EV, the  Paua packs, is that we wanna get people excited before they get there. So it's if what goes into those, and what's the best way to do that, and, you know, like, the  Paua sunglasses, Laura will forever be infamous for the  Paua pink sunglasses that 

Liz Allan [00:53:19]:
They are amazing. Should've put them on, shouldn't I? I've got them over there. I've come in at the other side of my office, so I should I should not the people who are listening would be able to see them, but the  Paua pack was amazing because you opened it all up. And there were so many lovely things including and those of you sorry, who've you if you're listening, you won't be able to see. I always forget. It's pip pop pop. I always forget. It's like a little

Pam Hanlon [00:53:41]:
Pip the Power Penguin.

Liz Allan [00:53:43]:
Pip the Power Penguin. We got Pip the  Paua Penguin in a pack with some pink  Paua sunglasses. Try saying that too quickly. You know, and it was just the whole feeling of being involved in the rally. So actually, do you know what? I'm I'm going to say to those people who are in fleets, and they're starting to transition over to electric. If you're listening, if you've not part been part of the Greenfleet EV rally, I'd get in there because, actually, it's a real experience. It's not it's not easy, but the reward is fantastic. And as Pam was saying, some of the scenery is fantastic.

Liz Allan [00:54:24]:
I would say the thing that stands out most in my mind was our journey from Exeter to Chester on the last day. The actual journey we took through Wales because we stayed at the Rug, we stopped at the Rug Estate, and that was the journey around there, and it was just beautiful.

Pam Hanlon [00:54:46]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:54:47]:
It really was.

Pam Hanlon [00:54:48]:
It really was incredible. For me, it would have been when we went through, and I can't remember the name, but it is somewhere I have always wanted to go. So bad with names.

Liz Allan [00:54:59]:
What day was it?

Pam Hanlon [00:55:02]:
Listen. All the days mashed in. Oh, this is going to annoy me. I know I shouldn't have brought this up because I couldn't remember its name.

Liz Allan [00:55:14]:
Don't worry. Don't worry. You're pulling a ring, but what's the answer?

Pam Hanlon [00:55:17]:
I had, like we we drove by these, like, hills, and I'm not talking like little small hills, big hills. But there was a waterfall that ran down one of the hills. And, honestly, I was like, this is the most incredible thing I will see. And I I was saying to you earlier, like, I was in Malaysia for a month. I've been places. I've obviously lived Ireland, England, you know, a lot of different places. But for me, seeing that, like, waterfall come down the side of the hill or mountain or whatever you want to call it was absolutely something that image is in my mind forever, and I wouldn't have had that unless I went on the EV rally. But even if you do do a day, my thing would be always try and, like, train and educate your drivers before they go out in all situations.

Pam Hanlon [00:56:07]:
Don't just hand somebody the keys to an electric vehicle and hope for the best. You know? Please help them. educate them. I know I'm not supposed to say that word. But as I said earlier, if somebody doesn't know something, they know something. I think that is the definition of education. Right?

Liz Allan [00:56:22]:
Absolutely.

Pam Hanlon [00:56:24]:
So help them. We help each other. That's the whole thing of this. Like, I was saying to you earlier when I was I don't I don't see myself as a salesperson or is what what is in people's minds of a salesperson. My whole point when somebody gets on that call with me is that when they get off or when they meet me is that they know something they didn't know before. Yeah. Yeah. And I said to you, like, I've never I never ever applied for a sales job in my life.

Pam Hanlon [00:56:56]:
Right? I've never. I've just naturally progressed into them. But I don't see me having a conversation with you isn't me trying to get the sale out yet. It's I'm trying to understand what it is that you need. And if it's something you need that I don't sell, I'll still help you with that because that's what we're supposed to do. Right? I've never I'm I'm I, like, I've never I I get salespeople have a bad rep. Right? We just do because, you know, there's all these terms are people. But I don't think all people all sales people are the same as other people.

Pam Hanlon [00:57:32]:
Some of us just wanna help people and make it better. And I've never worked for a company who would, like, make me force sales down somebody's throat because that isn't who I am. You know, it's it's not at the core of what I want to be or who I am as a person. Mhmm. I just wanna help, and I wanna make sure that you know something that you didn't know before you met me. That's that's and I think same for you, Liz. You're very we're very similar in that way. You're extremely helpful, and you wanna make sure that everybody is okay.

Pam Hanlon [00:58:04]:
And Yeah. You're just salt of the earth is what I would say. That's how I would describe it. And I think the mission and the journey that you're on, I think it's it's outstanding. It's incredible. I think, you know, anybody who meets you or knows you knows that you are a true, genuine person. Don't think they see us in the same way because I can be quite direct, and I'm okay with that. Do you know what I mean? I'm 2 different personality types but with the same goal.

Pam Hanlon [00:58:31]:
The whole point is to help. Yeah. So

Liz Allan [00:58:34]:
So I wanna talk. There's a couple of things I wanna finish off with. First one is, have we covered all your products? Are there any other things that you're gonna you're bringing out? Is there anything anything else you wanna talk about?

Pam Hanlon [00:58:47]:
We're always working on new stuff, but I think the newest one that you will probably hear because we've announced Power Pins, right, which was the private infrastructure and and help with that. Right. And But Yeah.

Pam Hanlon [00:59:00]:
We will always be working on about 15 different things in the background, although we're, you know, a group of I think we're 12 now. So we're a group of 12 people for anyone who is like, oh my god. How many people are there? We are 12 people. Mhmm. But, we are always working on different projects, and we're always like, what comes next? What's the newest thing? And for us, currently, what we're what is coming, is salary sacrifice. Okay. And what that will do is to that people who are have salary sacrifice through work can add a power card to that and could save up to 50% on their public charging costs.

Liz Allan [00:59:43]:
Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah.

Pam Hanlon [00:59:46]:
Oh. Again, it's that trying to make life. I was going to say it earlier, but I was like, should I, shouldn't I? Like, Niall, they'll probably be like, Pam. But it's coming soon, so, I mean, I can talk about it now. Yeah. And I think it is gonna be a difference. Here's why I think it's important, and I think people go, oh, they're just launching a new product. We don't just launch new products.

Pam Hanlon [01:00:10]:
There's a lot of thinking that goes into the background of that. Right? So because we can help fleets and businesses so well, we also want to be able to help people in companies who are torn between going petrol and diesel, right, or petrol or liquid fuel, let's just say, ICE vehicles. It's got so many names. They don't know what to refer it to. Oh, I know. So we want to know if we can offer this proposition that makes public charging cheaper for those drivers, it might make them change their mind from going with an ICE vehicle to going with an electric vehicle instead because now public charging won't be so expensive. Right? Now you can save on the cost of putting public charging with a power card onto your, as an offering to your staff. So for me, it's a win-win.

Pam Hanlon [01:01:05]:
You know? It's it's it's helping people make that transition, which is great. And they might change their mind. That for me is the nugget there that somebody might change their mind from going from petrol and diesel and go for an electric one instead. Because of that fear you had of public charges, being so expensive and being so sparse isn't a thing. Now you get access to 55,000 connectors nationwide, and you actually get to save on the public charging costs. So win-win. Right? Everyone's upset.

Liz Allan [01:01:38]:
There you go. That sounds like a song. Sound for, you know, time for a 

Liz Allan [01:01:42]:
Hot Chocolate song. Yeah. Everyone's a winner. 

Pam Hanlon [01:01:48]:
That's exactly the song I had in my head when I did that. I'm glad you picked up on that.

Liz Allan [01:01:51]:
I might have actually to play that because I love the guitar. Sorry. I don't normally sing on the podcast, but hey, that's the first time. 

Pam Hanlon [01:02:04]:
Someone says Paua, I've got the power that comes into my head, and then they might even be referring to power. They might be talking about power or anything. But the minute I hear that word, I instantly hear that song in my head. And and yeah.

Liz Allan [01:02:19]:
I want to finish off by talking about your son. You told me before we started recording. Can you remind me what his name is?

Pam Hanlon [01:02:31]:
Jacks

Liz Allan [01:02:32]:
Ok, Jacks, I wanted to just say a personal thank you from me for listening because Jacks is, what, 9?

Pam Hanlon [01:02:39]:
Is he 9? He's just gone 9. Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:02:41]:
So, Jacks is 9, and he listens to this podcast, which absolutely melted my heart this morning. Amazing. And but I wanted you to tell everybody about the conversation that was he 7 when you had this conversation with was it a taxi driver? Yes. Tell us tell everybody what what Jack said.

Pam Hanlon [01:03:05]:
This is amazing. Love it. Thank you for making the podcast so that my son could listen to it because He said, really, every morning when he wakes up, he'll come down, and there'll be at least one question. And I think it's beautiful that you are educating people, not only people but kids. Right? So you're educating the next generation so I can get my son to sit down and have something so informative and educational from people in the industry. To have my son be able to listen to that is incredible. Right? But, so I have two really funny stories.

Pam Hanlon [01:03:41]:
When my son was 7, we got into a taxi, and my son said to the taxi man, is this an electric vehicle? And the taxi man said no. It's a hybrid. And he went, why have you got hybrid and electric is so much better? You know those moments when you cringe in the back of the car, and I'm like, please, please stop, son. Please stop. But the fact that he knows that and that that's part of who he, you know, who he is. Now, I'm so proud. The other thing is that when I started working at Phoenix Works, he was just starting in reception.

Liz Allan [01:04:18]:
So he'd literally just started?

Pam Hanlon [01:04:20]:
Yeah. We were talking about work. I said, " oh, once I drop you off, I have to go to work. And he said, what do you do, Mum? And there was a house right beside the school that has solar panels on it. It's missing one, which really bothers me. But, anyway, it has solar panels on it. I'm I'm like, you could have just fit one more right there. Anyway, I said to my son, you see, you see those panels on the house? And he was like, yeah. I was like, well, what they do is they generate energy from the sun that goes in and feeds the house, so they don't have to pull as much electricity.

Pam Hanlon [01:04:54]:
And I was trying to explain it as easily as I could from his side. He's like, they get all their electricity from the sun. Obviously, not all, but how do you tell a 4-year-old? Yeah. So we were walking down into school, and he said, is that what you do, mum? And I said, yeah. Well, we help people put this renewable energy into their homes. And he's like, are you so are you a superhero, mum? And I was like, yes, son. That's exactly what I am. Mommy is a superhero.

Pam Hanlon [01:05:21]:
I am making a better world, and you will, too. And so, yeah, from the age of, like, 4, he's been into it. So as soon as I started with the Phoenix works and he started learning about it, it's been something that's always in his mind, which is great. And I will forever be a superhero. So great.

Liz Allan [01:05:39]:
I love it.

Pam Hanlon [01:05:40]:
I love it.

Liz Allan [01:05:40]:
And you don't wear your knickers outside your trousers, do you?

Pam Hanlon [01:05:43]:
I mean, not on a normal day, but if you catch me out on a night out after a few we've had a few baby Guinness's and stuff like that. You know? 

Liz Allan [01:05:51]:
Let's not go there. Oh, Pam, you are the loveliest person. It's been amazing talking to you. Thank you. Like I say, this is the first podcast you've ever done, and I am privileged to be the first podcast host to have you. 

Pam Hanlon [01:06:12]:
It's easier, though. It's nice to just chat with you. So you make it so much easier to see here. Some people may be nervous before they come on and do this or anxious about it. But I think it's you. You put people at ease, and we just have a chitchat conversation about it makes it so much easier.

Liz Allan [01:06:30]:
Oh, bless you. Honestly, do you know what? I've started saying this at the end of the podcast now because I think this is really important. What Pam's just been saying earlier about all the things to do with the sun and Paua and EVs and everything like that If you've been listening and watching this . If you've been listening and watching this, look, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Pam Hanlon [01:06:54]:
You did it.

Liz Allan [01:06:54]:
Can you please share? Because, you know, the only way to actually get the word out about what we're trying to achieve, and I'm not just in it for the sake of it. I want to make things better. Just share it like us on YouTube or across whichever audio platform you're listening to, put some reviews on, anything like that to try and spread the word because people need to hear Pam.

Pam Hanlon [01:07:21]:
They don't need to hear me, necessarily. They might like the old Irish accent a bit. People who like that are here. Right? Absolutely. 

Pam Hanlon [01:07:31]:
I do it because it is so important to, like. After all, there's so much negative information out there. It's so useful, and it's so important to hear your podcast and be able to spread that news and teach people to stop listening to all the outside news. Even stop listening to our news. Just try it for yourself. Yeah. Absolutely. You do an incredible job of sharing that story. So if, anybody listening could share that information and could get these more positive stories out there to be able to help other people, that would be incredible.

Liz Allan [01:08:06]:
Exactly. And actually, some people don't realise that you're just kind of passive when you listen to a podcast or watch a podcast, aren't you? You're listening to it or watching it. But if you do something active like clicking that subscribe or that like or adding a comment or adding a review, the algorithms across all platforms will start taking notice. And, hopefully, you know, you're doing something to get other people to listen or share. We have lots of posts on social media. So anything, anything, and everything is really, really appreciated. But on that note, Pam, I'm gonna say thank you. You've just been amazing.

Liz Allan [01:08:51]:
I will share all of your web address and LinkedIn contacts and everything that I possibly can. And it's by the way, so if you're listening and watching, it's Paua Tech, pauatechtech.com. That is their website. Check it out. There's all sorts of information on there. Contact Pam. And, yeah, just start , reaching out if you're not already on there, you know, kind of working with them. So but, Pam, thank you again.

Liz Allan [01:09:24]:
It's been brilliant talking to you, darling.

Pam Hanlon [01:09:26]:
It's great talking to you too. And even if people just have questions or just wanna have, like, a chat with me just to ask me questions about stuff, I'm always we're always open to have a conversation, so I'm always happy to share whatever I know with people.

Liz Allan [01:09:40]:
Bless you. Well, listen. On that note, I'm gonna say to everybody, thank you for listening and watching, and I shall see you next time. Bye. Thank you. Bye. 

Liz Allan [01:09:57]:

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Electric Evolution. It's been a pleasure bringing you insights and conversations about our journey to a sustainable future.

If today's episode sparked your curiosity, remember to follow us so you don't miss our upcoming episodes. If you're inspired by this podcast and want to support our mission on a monthly basis, please check out our patreon page at patreon.comforward/ electricevolutionpodcast. Your contributions help us to continue exploring innovative solutions for a greener world. And for those of you who'd like to offer a different kind of support, you can buy us a coffee at buy me a coffee dot com forward slash electric evolution podcast. Every cup helps us to keep the conversation going. If you're curious about our work in the EV infrastructure at Full Circle CI, why not visit us at full circle ci.co.uk to find out more? Or if you have any questions or suggestions, you can always send me an email at liz@fullcircle.co.uk. And finally, please don't forget to share this podcast if it did spark your interest, or even leave us a review so we can keep spreading the word about all of the topics we're covering. Until next time.