Episode 127: Liz Allan and Dan Caesar - Electric Vehicles UK, Fighting Misinformation & Supporting EV Adoption

Episode 127: Liz Allan and Dan Caesar - Electric Vehicles UK, Fighting Misinformation & Supporting EV Adoption.

Liz Allan speaks to Dan Caesar, the launch CEO of Electric Vehicles UK and the CEO & presenter of Fully Charged. Dan shares his journey from the publishing industry into the world of renewable energy and electric vehicles, how he met Robert Llewellyn and the remarkable growth of Fully Charged. He also unveils the purpose behind Electric Vehicles UK and its mission to tackle misinformation, unify the EV industry, and accelerate the transition to electric mobility. 

Quote of the Episode:
"It's not the technology that's the problem anymore, it's the psychology, and that’s what we need to work on to drive EV adoption." – Dan Caesar

Dan Caesar Bio:
Dan Caesar is the CEO and presenter of Fully Charged, the world's leading clean energy and EV channel. He played a crucial role in the platform's growth, expanding it beyond YouTube into a successful global events series. As the launch CEO of Electric Vehicles UK, Dan is now working to counter misinformation, unify the industry, and create a centralised hub for EV education.

Dan Caesar Links:
Websites: https://electricvehicles.uk and https://fullycharged.show
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dancaesar

Episode Keywords: 
Electric Vehicles UK, Fully Charged, Everything Electric, EV misinformation, UK EV industry, Robert Llewellyn, renewable energy, EV adoption, future of electric cars, EV policy, sustainable transport, clean energy advocacy

Episode Hashtags:
#ElectricVehiclesUK #FullyChargedShow #EverythingElectric #EVAdoption #EVMisinformation #CleanEnergy #SustainableTransport #FutureOfEVs #EVCharging #DanCaesar #ElectricCars #ZeroEmission

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Electric Evolution with Liz Allan. This podcast is about the journey to a more sustainable future in order for us to be able to do our bit to achieve net zero. I'll be discussing a variety of topics with experts in their field in order to educate and increase our knowledge of clean energy, electric vehicles and the electric vehicle infrastructure. So whether you're an individual who wants to make a difference at home, a small business or a corporate this podcast is just for you. In today's episode, I have Dan Caesar with me. Now he is the launch CEO of Electric Vehicles UK, and you probably know more about this one, but the other one is amazing as well. So CEO and presenter of Fully Charged. Dan, thank you ever so much for joining me today.

Liz Allan [00:00:50]:
It's really lovely to see you.

Dan Caesar [00:00:51]:
It's a pleasure to see you. How are you?

Liz Allan [00:00:55]:
I'm alright. Yeah. Yeah. Good for a Friday. Those of you don't know what day you are recording on because it doesn't make any difference. It's a Friday morning. But yeah. Brilliant to see you.

Liz Allan [00:01:05]:
So let's have a chat about where, you know, where all of this work you do some amazing things with Fully Charged and working with Robert Lewellen and, you know, all all the stuff that you've done. Can we start from the grassroots and talk about where you came into the sector? Why? What was it that you did before?

Dan Caesar [00:01:28]:
Well, unfortunately, when you get older, you can I could talk about this for quite a long time? So, I'll try to keep it relatively short and interesting, hopefully. I mean, started life in the publishing business. So, I was old enough to work on magazines. Do you remember them? 

Liz Allan [00:01:45]:
Yeah. I do.

Dan Caesar [00:01:47]:
And, I love I loved it. Actually, I was like I started as a publisher, so I was running the commercial side of the magazine and the content side of the magazine as well. And I guess what I'm doing now is not actually that dissimilar. It's just in digital form. And, after a few years, I thought I needed something with more purpose. I was working in sectors that didn't really interest me very much. And then, actually, I got to work in gas safety. So I got to work in like a lot of us did, started in sort of the energy industry. Yeah. Fossil fuels.

Dan Caesar [00:02:18]:
And I worked for the gas safety watchdog, which was pretty well-known in the day. It was called Corgi, and I was the director of communications. And, it totally opened my eyes to the fact that work is, you know, about meaning. If you're lucky enough to have a job that gives you meaning, and, I was, at that time, working on campaigning with government and communicating the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning, which was a very serious issue. I met families who had lost people to carbon monoxide poisoning. Obviously, I was interested in business as a business in making sure boilers were safe and things like that. And it meant something, and it was an important, important job.

Dan Caesar [00:02:59]:
But very, very quickly, I became aware of heat pumps and solar thermal in particular, solar PV, latterly, batteries, and I became very very aware that this was gonna be the next next big thing. There was gonna be a big shift away from fossil fuels, hopefully towards electrification. And I thought that was fantastic, not only because I like technology and I found that interesting, but also because better technology is actually not only better from an efficiency standpoint, but also safer as well. So, carbon monoxide poisoning could be a thing of the past with you know, if we will have heat pumps or zero emission boilers and things that don't rely on gas, equally, you know, occasionally, boilers and gas does explode, so you've got that issue as well. So I felt very, very strongly for a whole range of reasons that electrification would win. And I've been fighting that battle or trying to persuade people to that effect for well over twenty years. That was how I began, and it's been really interesting to see things progress around the world. And sometimes I feel like we've made the most enormous progress, and other times I feel like I can't believe it's gone so slowly as well.

Dan Caesar [00:04:08]:
So, I'm it's yeah. It's a great industry, and I really enjoyed working in it. When I left that job, actually, I set up my own business, and I was running something called the Renewables Roadshow. So I was really kind of pushing renewables. This is almost twenty years ago, so pretty pretty previous, I suppose. Pretty early, and I really enjoyed that. I also did some consulting for the Department of Climate Change when they launched the renewable heat incentive. So I was in that kind of in that world from very, very early on.

Dan Caesar [00:04:36]:
And I guess a key moment for me, Liz, was one of my clients said, you know, it's very good that you're promoting heat pumps and solar, and such like that. But you can't drive around in that for much longer than someone pointed to, my Audi, as it was then. And I hadn'tt really given it that much consideration. I was kind of it was sort of, early, sort of 2010, 2011, that sort of time, and there weren't many electric vehicles out at that point in time. I was aware of Tesla and what was going on there and I found that fascinating but particularly from a battery perspective. And then quite early on I got an electric vehicle and that I think was about 2015 I got my first electric vehicle and that fundamentally changed things for me, and a lot of the last ten years for me have been about electric vehicles as well as electrification of other technologies.

Liz Allan [00:05:25]:
So what did you do right? So when did you move into a Tesla then? 

Dan Caesar [00:05:30]:
No. I didn't. No. I remember it well, actually. I was working at, the BRE has a fantastic sustainable sort of building, lab and different buildings in Watford. And I was there for work, and I was really quite interested in electric vehicles. But I was also coming up against the, I guess, the how expensive is it gonna be, you know, that was my prime consideration.

Dan Caesar [00:05:55]:
And so I was looking into that, and I had, you know, I wasn't the sole decision maker in my household, so I was looking for an electric car. And I was thinking, yeah. I want one. I know I want one, but how do I convince my other half? And, actually, at that, there was a demonstrator with some vehicles and also with a cost calculator. It's boring, but it really was a spreadsheet that sold it to my other half. And I actually went to her too. The car itself is probably a little bit more expensive than a car. But actually, if you look at the running cost, I think it's gonna be, you know, sort of, you know, same running cost, total cost of ownership or maybe even less. And that convinced her.

Dan Caesar [00:06:36]:
We then got our first electric car, a BMW I three. Do you remember those? Yeah. That was back in 2015, and I absolutely loved it. It completely transformed my life. I was already pretty interested in tech anyway and obviously clearly interested in cleaner energy. But that really was a light bulb moment for me. As soon as I got in that, I thought, well, what's the fuss about? These are great.

Dan Caesar [00:06:58]:
You know? Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you wanna do this? So I've been trying to get people to join that course ever since.

Liz Allan [00:07:04]:
Good on you. And I was gonna say, I was gonna bring this up a bit later, actually, but you do love a bit of a rant as well, don't you, on LinkedIn, which I love. I love it when you kinda, you know, that I was gonna talk about misinformation, you know, and and and all the missing, and I always talk about this on the podcast. But, actually, I love it when I see some of your rants. It's they're so true and it's kinda like, just come on everybody. What are you doing?

Dan Caesar [00:07:32]:
Yeah. I mean, this is quite odd, isn't it, to to look at information and the way it's shared now, you know, we used to have a day or a time when I can remember, you know, there only being three TV channels and then I remember the excitement of a fourth of a fourth one being added. And I remember that. You got all your news really from, you know, four TV sources, maybe from a handful of radio stations, and maybe from the newspapers as well. That was the way it was back in the day. And yet now everyone has a platform. You know, some of them don't necessarily use it, but ever have a platform. And, obviously, in many ways, that's been extremely liberating.

Dan Caesar [00:08:09]:
But by the same token as well, it just means that the requirement to think critically when you see information is, is more important than ever. So I read something this morning. I can't remember what the story was, but my first thought is always, is that true? That's my first thought. Now when I read things and, I actually end up reading stuff and then going into it and looking at things that when things are true before I even react. And I guess a lot of people will, like, be cynical in that respect, and it is very dangerous. And lots of people are quite happy to put misinformation out there either, deliberately or not, and obviously subject to electric vehicles in particular. Heat pumps, etcetera, become lightning rods, haven't they, for, you know, negative comments even by people who've never driven them or never lived with them and it's frustrating. So, yeah, we've been able to speak a bit more freely than some organisations. I guess we're not a corporation, so we've been able to speak a bit more freely than some organisations.

Dan Caesar [00:09:09]:
So Robert and I have done that occasionally, spoken about, you know, misinformation, and we will continue to do so. But, yeah, I'm trying to grow up and get a bit older, so, you know, try trying to buy my time occasionally. But, I mean, generally speaking, you know, I think people do appreciate that someone is sort of talking about these things openly.

Liz Allan [00:09:33]:
And, actually, a lot of it is about people taking advantage now, isn't it? You know, they're taking advantage of the fact that it's open. Social media is open to everybody. And just like you said then, you know, I talked to my nineteen year old about the fact that please double check your sources of information. Don't just assume that what you're reading in one place is right. It's true. Always back it up, you know, and a lot of people don't and that's where we get into trouble, isn't it? Because these people are taking advantage and they're taking the mickey, really. And sort of like, you know, the things that they're they're kind of pressing onto everybody; they just seems to still think that it's true. You know? I'm not saying everybody's sorry.

Liz Allan [00:10:20]:
A lot of people seem to think that the misinformation that's out there, they don't know any different. So we you know, the older stuff that you're doing with Fully Charged in Electric Vehicles UK, it's about getting that truth, you know, pushing the truth rather than, you know, encountering the negatives.

Dan Caesar [00:10:37]:
It's a real challenge. And, you know, as we speak here now, I know there's been a presidential election in The US, and there's a new old man coming into power. Oh, which is 40 presidents in Yeah. Will be inaugurated in January. And, you know, the reality is that a lot of what he says, let's take his election campaign, for example, may prove to be untrue. I, you know, I suspect a lot of what he said will be untrue, but people are just happy to believe him. And I find it quite interesting that they will happily sort of, you know, just believe that because it's expedient to go to them. And so, yeah, we have let it into our politics with information.

Dan Caesar [00:11:23]:
We've absolutely let it into our media, and it's very, very difficult. As you said, the best thing you can be armed with is that ability to to think critically and check sources. So even these days, what we try to do is obviously bring the facts to the surface. But then it's amazing how often you even get people saying, well, those facts, you know, who they're not their fault and so on and so forth. So it is, it is different, and a difficult time to operate. And I think there's a great quote, which I will probably get wrong, but, you know, a lot of people say, you know, history is written by the victors. Right? And, so you might see, you know, a history book is written by someone and actually their account becomes the reality of what happened even though actually it might not have been completely true. Well, we're seeing that now in real time.

Dan Caesar [00:12:13]:
You know, people are actually just shaping the narrative as they see fit before history has even judged it. So it is going to be an issue and it's why we are really stepping up, our activities around this information in particular. We do think it has had quite a significant dampening effect on uptake of the technologies that we care about.

Liz Allan [00:12:34]:
I totally agree, and I've talked about this before. I actually have personal friends who have been reading things, and they think that that kind of, you know, a lot of the stuff that's out there with regards especially with regards to electric vehicles is true. And, it's really difficult, you know, because we've got to try. It's balancing that sort of, not being too evangelical or patronising and just kind of I think I realised that showing people that it that these things are easy is better than just kinda going, oh, well, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. You know, getting old Ponzi and all that kind of thing. Actually, sitting with them and just, you know, I've got a used Hyundai Ioniq. People have heard me talk about this a lot. And getting people to sit in the car and just driving it and chatting to them and just going for a charging experience and things like that and trying not to, you know, just let it work and let them see it works. It's not always perfect.

Liz Allan [00:13:44]:
You know what I mean? But we, you know, are just trying to win people over. I'm saying win people over, and that's not the right phrase, but you know what I mean.

Dan Caesar [00:13:54]:
I mean, I think from my perspective, as an early EV driver, who spends a lot of time with Robert Lewellen, who also is an even earlier EV driver. You know, we have fallen into the trap of being evangelical about technology. And that's natural because, actually, we just couldn't believe we were getting in these cars. They were great, and they were easy to operate, and, actually, there are a lot of benefits over combustion engine vehicles. And we couldn't believe that people just couldn't see it for themselves. So we became more incredulous and probably more shrill and hysterical. Why don't you see this more evangelical? And actually, the reality is that that won over the other early adopters, the pioneers, you know. So the brave people who went first, that kind of convinced them. But, you know, if you want to win the heads of the early mainstream, you have to be, you know, very balanced.

Dan Caesar [00:14:41]:
Fact based, you have to be able to say, actually, you know, there are some minor drawbacks. We think they're pretty minor, but you have to be transparent about that. But as you say, there's no substitute for actually getting someone in one of the cars and letting them drive them. For example, if you're talking about electric vehicles. So, yeah, giving people the ability to see it themselves and not be told because people don't like being told, is the right thing to do. So we've, yeah, we've modified our approach over the years. But, yeah, we're certainly, from my point of view, still to this day, I'm still shocked that people don't understand. You know? I think for me, it's very logical if you look at what's happening, the way the cars are made versus the way combustion cars are made, the way you don't burn the fuel to the air, etcetera, etcetera.

Dan Caesar [00:15:27]:
To me, it's very logical that, actually, of course, these are these are clean. It doesn't mean that cars are clean. Does it mean that, you know, having a bicycle isn't better? Obviously, it is. All fewer vehicles are better, but, you know, if we could at least replace most of the vehicles we have now with electric vehicles, that would be a huge step forward for clean air, for climate, and people would just have a better experience. The tech is just better. And that's why way over nine out of ten people don't go back unless they've got electric vehicles.

Liz Allan [00:15:54]:
Yeah. And I think maybe even the ones that do go back, it's partly because perhaps they weren't appropriately onboarded. And, yeah, and it's that kind of understanding. It's that piece of information, you know, about the experience being passed on to that person in the right way with all the, you know, information around regenerative braking, about charging, about all the different, you know, terms and to all the terminology we have, it's breaking that down and making it simple. I do not want to be patronizing to anybody, but to me, it's kind of right. Okay. All these the terminologies that we've got out rapids and ultra rapids, and people don't give them monkeys about that. They wanna know how quickly their car's gonna charge.

Liz Allan [00:16:49]:
So to me, it's kind of, you know, everybody providing that information. So if that, you know, people can see this, it's the overall picture, but it's through various kinds of segments. It's kind of from the manufacturer to the dealerships to any lease companies to, you know, the guy who was selling me the used EV and also me doing my research. That's kinda where we get it from. That's how I feel. That's where we should get it from.

Dan Caesar [00:17:19]:
Well, consistency is gonna be the key. You know, as you said, you mentioned a few different things there. Still, certainly, from my point of view, if you were getting a business to run efficiently, for example, you need a clear mission statement and then you need leadership. You need, you know, process, and you need structures to that business, and then you need to communicate well as it is an industry, you know, we've all been doing our own thing largely, I think. And so as an industry, the reason behind Electric Vehicles UK, which we formed in September, really, is to try and work to bring industry together to talk in the same way, to help each other, you know, so there's a real framework and structure, which is does not mean duplicating existing efforts because there's some incredible work going on, out there. But it is effective to get us all together and say, look if we communicate consistently together, we find out what works, we tweak that. We can really start to bring, you know, more of the kind of mass market on board with EVs. Now I think it's sometimes counterproductive to get and forgive this phrase because it is marketing speak, but to bring a laggard or someone from the late mainstream into an EV when they're not ready. I think that could do you a disservice because, just as you say, they're just not ready. You kind of force them into it quickly and maybe they are the one in twenty people who might go back, you know, for example.

Dan Caesar [00:18:42]:
So actually it's looking for those people in that early mainstream who may be quite tech savvy. Maybe they're a bit more environmentally aware. Maybe they want to change their car if the timing is right. Whatever the reasons, finding that group of people, not seeing everyone as one big monolithic block, is really, important. So, from my point of view, it's always been well, it's not always been, but more recently, it's a communications challenge. As Robert and I have said consistently, it's not technology now. That technology is great. It's the psychology bit, and that's where, I think we'll be working, persuading, cajoling, whatever tactic it takes people for another ten, fifteen years for sure.

Liz Allan [00:19:23]:
So you've personally been, from your own through your own career, on a journey to where you are with Electric Vehicles UK. Can I just go back a step? Because I want to focus, you know, where you are with Electric Vehicles UK, of course. But then there's that background piece of how you met Robert Llewellyn, how did you meet him? What brought you to set up Fully Charged? I know that he was running the YouTube channel anyway, wasn't he? And that was, I think, that was what it was called initially?

Dan Caesar [00:20:01]:
Yeah. No. It was amazing. I was at an industry event yesterday and hadn't seen a few people there for a little while. And so we were a bit reminiscing about how it all started. And there's been quite a lot of churn in the industry, quite a lot of faces I know really well. I've known about it for a decade and I've worked with two or three or four different companies in that time because it's a nascent space. It's in its early stages, and some companies make it.

Dan Caesar [00:20:23]:
Some don't. That's perfectly normal. And my journey was yeah. I've been doing my own thing, running events, around the country, all about renewables. I was still in the process of trying to promote those things. One of the slight frustrations I had was quite often I found it was industry talking to industry, and we'd, you know, we'd all be there. Batteries are great, aren't they? They're the future. Electric cars are great, they're the future, and so on and so forth.

Dan Caesar [00:20:49]:
And, you know, I was absolutely adamant that we've got to find a way to.

Dan Caesar [00:20:54]:
Talk to consumers and make it engaging, educational, and entertaining. And then, I stumbled across Fully Charged on YouTube, which had existed for six years. And, I knew of Robert, but I didn't tell you, but I didn't watch. I didn't watch Scrap Heap Challenge, and I did watched a bit of Red Dwarf maybe. So, that one I won't tell him a premise.

Dan Caesar [00:21:22]:
That wasn't what I found interesting about Robert. We found what he was doing with Fully Charged because I thought he's cracked it. He's actually able to communicate what can be made to be quite technically complicated technologies. He's made it simple and fun. And I have spent most of my little life working with engineers.

Dan Caesar [00:21:43]:
Let's be completely frank, without engineers the world wouldn't work, but they do have a habit of going into the weeds and talking about the details and maybe they're not always for the best people to actually, I guess, sell the high idea of the product, sell the concept. And so Robert had set up fully charged in 2010, so almost fifteen years ago now. We met, I think it had about 60,000 subscribers and that's not bad,

Dan Caesar [00:22:11]:
It's done amazingly well. And we met at the science museum. I was running an event, and I asked him to compare it. And we met, and I watched it, and I thought it's just sort of a TV standard. And I made some assumptions about how big his operation might be, and I I said, well, how many people have you got? And all the rest of it. And it basically was, I think, him plus a very talented, creative director editor, and then half another person who would do this sort of, you know, the production.

Dan Caesar [00:22:42]:
That was it. And I said, well, how do you make money? And he said, well, I don't. So, that was how it all began, and I think, you know, people should, you know, look at the business now, and it is a fair bit bigger now, but you know, Robert really put his own money and passion into that project. We met, and I'm not back because I'm coming forward. So I said, I think I can help you. You know, I think I've got that kind of business experience. I was also passionate about the products and, you know, and I guess communication is something I'm very passionate about too. We just met, and we struck it off. Is it anyone who knows him, he's a lovely guy and

Liz Allan [00:23:20]:
He's lovely.

Dan Caesar [00:23:21]:
He's incredibly gracious with me, and he's let me do what I do, which is, I guess, build the business out, build a framework, and so we've got sort of long-term, sustainable business now on both the YouTube channels. We've got two channels, as you're probably aware, Fully Charged and Everything Electric, and then also the events around the world and, making them, making them sustainable in the long term and, obviously, Electric Vehicles UK being the, the latest project.

Liz Allan [00:23:47]:
So if we look at the impact of all of this that you've done and the fact that you're the live events I'm gonna go back a step. The YouTube channel now has over a million subscribers. So it's gone from your 60,000 to over a million subscribers. And then, as you said, you've got Everything Electric that I can't even remember the numbers for Everything Electric, but it's all just grown arms and legs and everything, hasn't it? You know? And then so it makes sense to actually be concentrating on the next phase, which is, as you said, Electric Vehicles UK. At what point did you recognise that that needed to be the next step?

Dan Caesar [00:24:40]:
Well, I mean, there were a couple of dynamics at play, really. We had, you know, been very transparent about the fact that YouTube doesn't pay the bills. So, you know, the reason behind the live events, and, Robert and I started to discuss that in 2017, was that we somehow need to to grow the YouTube channel, so we need to find a way of funding it. And events felt like the best way to do it because we want to have the digital community, but actually people wanted to beat up, but they wanted to test drive the cars and talk about the tech. So that was a logical extension, and that was successful. We've done 17 of those around the world, but it does take a little while to work out, you know, to iron out any any any any kinks in that to make it better. And we now have a great team that runs YouTube channels and a great team that runs events around the world as well. So we had to have some success, and I'm very proud of what we've achieved.

Dan Caesar [00:25:37]:
But there was always a little bit of a sense that, you know, we're still not quite in the mainstream. And, you know, really, if these technologies are to take off, you know, we've got to play our part in doing that. And I guess we probably when you put out something like 2,000 videos and you've run 17 large scale events, well, you've looked quite a lot through that process. You know, what works in terms of the thumbnails of the episodes, for example, and the packaging of those episodes and which bits do people watch and when do people switch off? Where are they watching it? What was the duration? You know, all that stuff. So we had ingested a huge amount of information, same with the live events, how many test drives we were doing, etcetera. And we felt that we were pretty well placed, I think, to help the industry take the messaging out to consumers. So it became bigger than our business alone. It became about how we take the whole industry out to the consumer marketplace.

Dan Caesar [00:26:32]:
So about a year and a half ago, we started to see misinformation ramp up really, really, really quickly. No. We felt that it was hurting The UK market in particular. Actually, our Australian business is much faster growing than our UK business, ironically.

Liz Allan [00:26:49]:
Is it?

Dan Caesar [00:26:50]:
Our Canada business is a bit stronger as well because it's all economics, politics, sentiment, you know, all these things come into play and The UK market has been a bit flatter. I mean, there's no, two ways around it. I think we're at the beginning of a better phase, and I'm pretty optimistic about 2025, in fact, but that's the reality. We thought misinformation was playing quite a big role in that, and we just didn't feel we could stay outside that and not get involved in that. So, we started something called Stop Burning Stuff, which is a Patreon Page for you to be drivers to contribute funds so that we could start to tackle this information. As we started to do it, Liz, we realised the size and the scale of the mountain in front of us was a lot bigger. Yeah. A lot, much bigger than we realised.

Dan Caesar [00:27:31]:
And so, we really became aware that we needed to go to get the industry involved and companies involved. So, I've been working on stock building stuff with Quentin, fantastic Quentin Wilson, and now we've launched Electric Vehicles, UK, in the last couple of months, which is about getting the whole of the industry together and providing that kind of structure, that kind of framework for the industry to work together more efficiently, more effectively, but also to really help with that consumer interface because I think there are loads of trade associations out there, magazines, podcasts, YouTube channels, car companies, charger companies, all the other companies, organisations that make this industry work. But I think between them, they don't necessarily know how to engage with the consumer. And I think that's, you know, like, I don't know. That's something we've got quite a lot of experience about. So we felt we could help the whole industry, I guess, promote itself better. And so let's be able to go to the UK. We've got some very exciting plans, and I really think we can make a big difference.

Dan Caesar [00:28:39]:
And we've had an incredible two months I've had in terms of the welcome that we've had in the industry for this initiative.

Liz Allan [00:28:46]:
Do you want to just give me a bit of information, Dan, about what you would like to happen with Electric Vehicles UK? What is the long-term aim for it?

Dan Caesar [00:28:59]:
I mean, I think the reality is that we want to build something that helps the industry communicate with consumers. If you wanted to buy an electric vehicle, for example, and you went to Google, you could end up with all manner of information. You could go somewhere that's giving you accurate information, or you could end up going down a wormhole of misinformation. In fact, there's probably more misinformation out there than correct information. So Yeah. We are effectively working to bring the industry together so we can join on that. So there will be, like, a central website, a central online destination, and it won't just be Fully Charged Show content on there. It just won't just be a video on there.

Dan Caesar [00:29:45]:
It will be everything you can think of, from video to podcast to news to data-driven stuff, and we will be working with all other YouTubers and all other content creators.

To bring all of that content into one place. So if at Christmas, Liz, you were sitting there and you were starting to talk about electric vehicles to someone, one of your nearest and dearest, and they maybe were a bit sceptical, you have the ability to say that it's all here. The industry has put it all here for you. It's all in one place. So I think by did to the fact that all of our partners, whether it's, you know, the AA or Tesla or Octopus, whoever it is, can all say, you know, this is where you go to stay current or this is where you go to find out about electric vehicles and clean energy more generally. It will be a big moment.

Dan Caesar [00:30:34]:
So that's one of the things we're working on. That website will be up and running before Christmas. That's the plan. But in addition to that, we're also doing public affairs work, so we're trying to influence politicians. So the zero-emission vehicle mandate is a very live issue, as we speak, so we're trying to influence that outcome positively. We have a rapid response group to deal with misinformation as well. So we want to get on the front foot and start to get the benefits of battery-electric vehicles. There are lots of benefits, but we also feel that we need to clear away some of the rubble and the misinformation.

Dan Caesar [00:31:08]:
Therefore, we will have a response group that will respond in just a matter of a few hours to each negative story that goes out. Fantastic. We can't do them all because of the team's size and the challenge's size. So we're really focusing on the main, the main newspapers, the main places like BBC, Channel Four, etcetera. If we see some misinformation, we want to be able to respond to it. We wanna go back to the journalist who started the misinformation and, you know, very politely kind of educate them because it's not always deliberate. Sometimes they just don't know the subject matter as well as you or I might. And we want to prevent that story from viralizing and being repeated elsewhere, which is quite a common theme.

Dan Caesar [00:31:50]:
Then, we want to cascade our response to that story to the industry and to drivers. So they're armed with the facts, and they can tackle that. So there's also gonna be an EV drivers group as well. So EV drivers could get in the comments in the Daily Mail, should they so wish, or YouTube and say, no. That's not my experience. My experience with electric cars has been great. And I know they don't catch fire, but they catch fire 20 times fewer lines than a first-engine vehicle, etcetera, etcetera. So arming the industry with those sorts of facts, having the website.

Dan Caesar [00:32:15]:
We'll also be doing, Quentin Wilson has done a great thing, which is trying to unlock the voices of the EV drivers. So that's the voices of the million campaign. Obviously, there's over a million EV drivers in The UK. We want to get them on camera as much as possible, whether it's on YouTube shorts, TikTok or Instagram, wherever it may be. We wanna actually get their lived experience out there into the world as well. We're running an open-source advertising campaign. We firmly believe that actually, while there is some quite good electric vehicle car advertising out there nowadays, we firmly believe that a generic sort of brand diagnostic campaign where we all get together and get the right messages across will be powerful. And so we're running an open-source advertising campaign.

Dan Caesar [00:32:59]:
So the Fully Charged Show, I'll be recording episodes soon where we put it out on the fully charged show. We'll be asking all creators, all people within the industry, kids as well. We want you to create the best possible battery-electric vehicle advert you can. We will get, I think, a huge amount of submissions for that, and we want them to do them in the poster if they want the kids, or they can do them in a video or a short video, long-form video, graphics, whatever and whatever they want. And we'll announce some winners in the new year, but all the winning content will be made available to the industry to you. So we're really looking forward to doing that as well. We will be running a national test drive event, Electric Vehicles UK roadshow as well to get to the bits, beyond our Farnborough and London shows.

Dan Caesar [00:33:47]:
So we will be running Everything Electric London in April and Everything Electric South in October. But in between, there will be a roadshow that will go out to the wider country, and we'll go to shopping centres as well because we wanna be there to talk to people who might not be quite as imminent as the fully charged everything electric audience. We are going to do events for different stakeholders as well. So the first one we can do is for politicians. A lot of politicians who are making decisions about electric vehicles don't actually drive.

Liz Allan [00:34:17]:
I know. Obviously, they don't know. They don't know. They just know what they read, don't they?

Dan Caesar [00:34:21]:
And they're very sensible. If they don't drive, that's absolutely great, of course. But then, obviously, they don't necessarily easily understand the topic, same with their special advisers. So we're doing an event for them. We're also looking to do events for press, for lifestyle influencers, you know, every different group, really. I'm sure we do want to do something with dealers at some point as well. And then, industry-wise, we'll be getting the industry together once every quarter as well so that we can all kind of better understand what each other is doing and collaborate. So there's about a nine eight, nine action point action plan that's going into effect now.

Dan Caesar [00:34:57]:
Another team has started. I think we start to see some activity, in December in particular. And then next year, we think we could ramp it up. And as I say, my creativity is really being unlocked now. We have quite a few other plans and ideas for next year. But we do think what plays to our advantage is it certainly would be if the ZEV mandate is stated explicitly by the government, and some stand at the podium and then say that that would certainly help. Obviously, hopefully, economically, the UK will start to be in a slightly stronger position. But what really helps now is with used EVs, and with more affordable EVs coming through is the democratization of electric vehicles is now looks like more of a possibility.

Dan Caesar [00:35:39]:
A lot of the car companies, and I think it's sort of natural the way it's happened, a lot of them have created quite expensive electric cars. They haven't, and by that, I don't mean I just mean they've chosen to, you know, make their brands more premium. Yes. And that's the way they've started. In fact, even some of them are terrified of having a high volume or affordable EV, you know, and so that now is coming. We know that there are some good, some amazing used EV deals now out there. That market's growing very fast, but we also know there are a lot more affordable EVs that have come into the market this year, and we know there are quite a few more coming next year. And I think I think that will be different.

Dan Caesar [00:36:23]:
That will really make a big difference because up until now, if you think about it, a very large percentage of the population don't have a driveway, so they think they can't have an EV even though they can. Or maybe they just can't afford a car of, you know, $25 plus. That's what knocks out, I would say, the majority of the market. So, the fact that EV growth has been as robust as it has been is actually pretty pretty pretty amazing. The growth figures we're seeing around the world are very, very encouraging. There are a few markets that are down. There are a few markets that are flat, but most markets are still, are still growing, actually, and that's the reality. The UK is quite unusual because we've had almost like a perfect storm.

Dan Caesar [00:37:04]:
We've had a slightly tricky political situation. We've had economic issues. We've had a lot of misinformation as well. But the reality is a car is a very expensive purchase. And we have seen there are three ways you could buy an EV really at present. One of which is used and that market is suddenly there. There are lots of used EVs down there that are seeing incredibly good value. And I think four out of five cars sold in The UK are used.

Dan Caesar [00:37:32]:
So that's actually a huge solution that's right there right now. And then for new car buyers, which is a much smaller percentage, we talk a lot about salary sacrifice and being able to get a car through your company through your company. And then there's the private buyer. And the private buyer and the fact that there aren't that many private buyers is the story, the narrative that's being told at the moment. But obviously, as I've just said, four out of five car sales in the UK are used anyway. Yeah. And the private buyer bit is being used, but private buyers aren't interested. But if you looked at the options, if you were gonna buy an electric car right now, you looked at three options.

Dan Caesar [00:38:08]:
I'll buy one private new, I'll buy one I'll get my company to get me one through seller sacrifice, or I'll buy used. Of course, everyone is gonna go for those last two, aren't they? Not gonna Yeah. Not many people are gonna go private at the moment. So, the demand is growing. Actually, the last six months of sales figures have been pretty good in The UK. And we're pretty optimistic about 2025, but we certainly feel that Electric Vehicles UK can play a positive role. And I guess there's just so much talent in the industry really trying to do the right thing and make it happen, and I've, even this week, been in with Bradford Transport on them. That has really reminded me this week that the passion and talent of the people in the EV industry are incredible.

Liz Allan [00:38:53]:
It is amazing. I'm gonna finish off by asking you what your dream would be. What would it look like, you know, for you? Because I know you're the launch CEO of Electric Vehicles UK, aren't you? What do you want to see happening? You've got your plans, but what would the ideal situation be for, you know, the UK? What would you want that to look like?

Dan Caesar [00:39:26]:
I think with electric vehicles specifically, the zero-emission vehicle mandate is asking manufacturers to have 22% of their cars sold by the end of this year be pure electric. Now, we're not quite gonna make that. I think it's gonna be more like 19% across the piece. You've got some organisations like Tesla doing 100% where they're picking up quite a lot of the slack. Then some manufacturers have achieved it. So BMW, for example, has done quite well. They're gonna hit that target. You've got others close enough for it not to be a disaster.

Dan Caesar [00:39:57]:
I think it's, you know, a pretty good effort. And I think there'll be some, you know, sensible conversations about fines, etcetera. And then there are a few that are well off the pace. And the reality is that that ratchet mechanism is supposed to go up to 28% by the end of next year. And I would love to get to the end of next year, and for not just electric vehicles, you go to the industry as a whole to have just flicked a bit of a switch, got into a higher gear, to get to communicate with the consumers so that 28% becomes a reality next year. And so that the narrative becomes much more positive. No, the ZEV mandate is having an impact. We can hit these targets, giving the industry confidence to get behind it.

Dan Caesar [00:40:42]:
It's an incredibly difficult time to work for a car company. I have a lot of sympathy, but many customers are super progressive. They're going electric, no doubt about it. A couple of others aren't. But putting your head in the sand of being an ostrich is a recipe for disaster. You cannot just live in a silo while the world is going on. And China and I would say Korea are making amazing cars as well.

Dan Caesar [00:41:11]:
And so you have to respond to that. You can't pretend this is not happening. So I hope by the end of next year, we will be in a position where the mood feels very different, and the attitude towards EVs is generally much more positive because we've, you know, washed down some of this misinformation. We've got on the front foot, and we start talking about electric vehicles' benefits.

Liz Allan [00:41:32]:
Brilliant. And I'm just gonna say this. The other thing is you can't just chuck a load of tariffs on EVs and hope that that manufacturer or country will go away and stop doing what they're gonna do. Because if you do that, that's not gonna help at all.

Dan Caesar [00:41:49]:
I mean, the tariffs, you know, I mean, I think as we've been saying, bizarrely, you know, with post-Brexit, we're not part of the EU, so we don't have to do that. And I would advise us not to do that. I think it's an opportunity for us to know that the UK is a big car market for both, you know, the cars that we make and use here and the cars we export as well. I think it's a very, big advantage. And I'd love to see every single car company as well. I would, but, realistically, it will be tough for some of them. There are no two ways around it. But if, let's say, for example, one of the car companies that set up shop here and has done great business here does get smaller or worse still has a real problem over the next few years, you know, as a country, you know, I would probably be trying to get some of the Chinese and the Koreans to make their their cars here really as well as a hedge against that.

Dan Caesar [00:42:44]:
And hopefully, we, you know, might come out with a bigger car industry. We don't really own those companies anyway. We don't even own JLR, which is an Indian-owned company. So, for more jobs, you know, to have a healthy import and export car business, it would be in the UK. Foreign streets in The UK would be fantastic. So, yeah, I think it is happening. The world is changing. We need to accept that.

Dan Caesar [00:43:09]:
And I actually think the UK could come out of it stronger. I think there are a few countries that could come out of it stronger. Australia, we spend a lot of time out there. I think they recognise that there's a huge opportunity here, and I would urge The UK to see this as an opportunity as well and not as a threat.

Liz Allan [00:43:24]:
Absolutely. Right. I'm just gonna say thank you ever so much. It's been a really wonderful conversation. You're doing such excellent work. Keep on doing this because otherwise, it's gonna be, you know, I don't envy you in some ways trying to get everybody pulling it all together because that is not an easy job. It is kind of like, you know, you've got businesses that are going off and doing their own thing and trying to get them all in and on board, but we all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet. So thank you for moving this in that direction, Dan.

Liz Allan [00:44:02]:
You and the team and Robert and, you know, I think it's just it's a brilliant thing that you're doing, so thank you.

Dan Caesar [00:44:10]:
Well, it's our absolute pleasure. It's been fantastic to talk to you today.

Liz Allan [00:44:15]:
So I will end by just saying, again, thanks, Dan. And also to those who are listening and watching, please, as I've said to you at the end of all of the episodes now, we can increase people's knowledge and get them to hear the truth by sharing. And take a look at Fully Charged. Take a look at Everything Electric and share this podcast with as many people as possible. Comment, like, subscribe, and do all of that because that's the only way these algorithms will pick it up. So on that note, again, thanks, Dan. I appreciate your time and to everybody else listening and watching I shall see you next time. Thanks, bye-bye.

Liz Allan [00:44:58]:
Thanks for listening to Electric Evolution. I really love bringing you these weekly conversations about sustainability, renewables and building a cleaner future together. If you're passionate about positive change please subscribe or send me a comment via your favorite podcast platform and don't forget to share with others who also care about these topics. You can also download our white paper plugging into the future at fullcircleci.co.uk and join the discussion on improving sustainable transport or email me at liz@fullcircleci.co.uk. Thanks for listening, bye.