Episode 137: Liz Allan and Vicky Edmonds - How EVA England Champions the EV Driver Experience and Net Zero

Episode 137: Liz Allan and Vicky Edmonds - How EVA England Champions the EV Driver Experience and Net Zero.

Liz Allan is joined by Vicky Edmonds, CEO of EVA England. Together, they explore the realities of supporting EV drivers, tackling misinformation, and driving forward the electric transition to achieve our net-zero goals. Vicky brings a wealth of experience from her years in government transport decarbonisation policy and now leads EVA England with a mission to ensure the EV driver’s voice is heard loud and clear. Liz and Vicky discuss the challenges of misinformation and confusing EV terminology, the need for clearer signage and inclusive infrastructure, and how EVA England advocates for improved accessibility, affordable charging solutions, and a thriving second-hand EV market. 

Vicky Edmonds Bio:
Vicky Edmonds is the Chief Executive Officer of EVA England, the leading voice for EV drivers across the UK. With nearly two decades of experience in government transport policy, including senior roles at the Office for Low Emission Vehicles (OLEV) and Energy Systems Catapult, Vicky has been at the heart of the UK’s journey towards decarbonised transport. A dedicated EV driver, she brings a unique blend of policy expertise and real-world experience to championing driver interests, tackling misinformation, and advocating for better accessibility and affordability in the EV sector. 

Quote of the Episode:
"The driver doesn’t care particularly about the ZEV mandate. What they do care about is buying a car they’ve never driven before and don’t understand. Our role is to ensure the driver’s voice is heard loud and clear."
 — Vicky Edmonds, CEO, EVA England.

Episode Keywords:
EV charging, Net zero, Electric vehicles, Driver experience, Decarbonisation, Public charging, Accessibility, EV infrastructure, Sustainable transport, Customer advocacy

Episode Hashtags:
#EVCharging #NetZero #ElectricVehicles #SustainableTransport #DriverExperience #Decarbonisation #EVInfrastructure #Accessibility #EVDrivers #EVAEngland

Transcript

Liz Allan  [00:00:00]:

Welcome to Electric Evolution with Liz Allan. This podcast is about the journey to a more sustainable future in order for us to be able to do our bit to achieve net zero. I'll be discussing a variety of topics with experts in their field in order to educate and increase our knowledge of clean energy, electric vehicles and the electric vehicle infrastructure. So whether you're an individual who wants to make a difference at home, a small business or a corporate, this podcast is just for you. So today, I have Vicky Edmonds with me and she's the CEO of EVA England and she started in January. Vicky, it's so brilliant to have you on here. Thank you ever so much for joining me.

Vicky Edmonds [00:00:45]:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Liz Allan  [00:00:48]:

So I know you've already been on another podcast with one of my podcast friends already, haven't you? But I wanna get a bit of a lowdown on you. And as I kind of said before we started recording, it's always good to kind of get a little bit of your background. So tell us a little bit about what you did before EVA England because you've been you've been in government or in part working in policy for some time, haven't you? Give us a little bit of that background if you will.

Vicky Edmonds [00:01:15]:

Yeah. No. Yeah. I mean, indeed, I've been in the policy world for almost twenty years now. So I started in government back in the mid two thousand first decade of the February, as a civil servant. And I spent the last, I say, decade working on transport decarbonisation policy. So not just electric vehicles, but, aviation decarbonisation, air quality as well, so wider emissions and, a little bit around shipping. So have a good portfolio of, across the modes of transport.

Vicky Edmonds [00:01:46]:

But electric vehicles is definitely, I think, the home for me. So I spent three years as one of the joint heads of what was then OLEV, the Office for Low Emission Vehicles with Natasha Robinson, who I'm sure many of your listeners also know. And then I also spent eighteen months as an EV advisor to the energy systems catapult to their board, helping them integrate electric vehicles into their energy modeling because obviously, electric vehicles are so central to the energy system. And Yeah. And I was on board of EV England, almost two years ago now, as an EV driver and a policy specialist, and then, jumped across to become chief executive of EV England in January.

Liz Allan  [00:02:28]:

Congratulations. I should have said that to start off with. Congratulations. It's this is brilliant. I mean, I'm kind of I spoke to James Court on here previously, but it's just nice to kind of see you coming in and he's moved on now to it's Octopus Electric Vehicles, isn't he now, doing some policy over there? But let's let's talk a little bit about about kind of what excites you about what's going on, and we'll talk about the ZEV mandate as well a in a few minutes. But what excites you about this role and the change in, you know, kind of moving into it?

Vicky Edmonds [00:03:03]:

So, actually, I'll I'll start. So I think I'm an EV driver as well as an EV policy expert. And I think when you're so embedded in a sector like us EV drivers are, you just have a real passion for it. And I think that's why throughout my career, I kept coming back to electric cars. So for me, having been on the inside of government, putting in place the original 2030 ambition for phasing out combustion cars and then being on the outside and being a driver who is now one of the people helping us to meet that ambition, helping drivers understand the sector, helping drivers, you know, enjoy their experiences with their electric cars, for me is a really nice kind of coming full circle in in in the EV world for me. So having developed the policy and then implemented it and now actually living it is a really nice thing. And I'm very passionate about, helping people get into their cars and and enjoying them.

Liz Allan  [00:04:00]:

Because we've just been talking as well about a little post that came out on Sky News today Indeed. Which is slightly perturbing where it actually said and I think it was a bit of a click-bait, headline. I don't know whether you thought that, but it one of the one of the stats in there were that more than one in five people out of the people about out of the AA members that they polled would not choose an electric vehicle. What do you think?

Vicky Edmonds [00:04:31]:

So I I'm not I'm not panicked about that yet. So I

Liz Allan  [00:04:35]:

I mean, we've we've spoken

Vicky Edmonds [00:04:36]:

A bit about EV England, so we we run surveys regularly of our members, but also wider driver surveys. And one of the biggest barriers to EV uptake is misinformation and miscommunication about what the sector is about and what these cars are about. I also think from a personal experience, taking the leap from a combustion engine car to an electric car, if you don't know anything about them, is quite a leap of faith still. So it took me a long time to persuade my husband that, no, we were not going to get a plug-in hybrid. We were going to go full electric. And, yes, these cars do work, and they're wonderful. And we did. And, obviously, we've we've never looked back or, you know, he's never looked back.

Vicky Edmonds [00:05:12]:

But I think I think it's still a leap of faith if you've been in a world where you're used to petrol pumps and, a particular way of of driving behavior. And so I'm not too panicked about reports that come out like that. And it's actually consistent with, some data that Persuasion UK and IPPR did recently where they showed that, you know, most voters are positive about electric cars, but they just don't know if they will fit into their lifestyle. And I think for those of us in the the sort of trade body policy world, we need to meet that challenge of showing people that they do work, that they can work for them in their lifestyle, and try to tackle that misinformation and miscommunication barrier. And one of the easiest ways is just the number of EV drivers increasing and people seeing that they work, people talking about it, that sort of communication, friends and family. Schoolgate, we talked about that earlier, is a really powerful place for the spread of kind of positive information about TVs, but just showing people that they work and just continuing to get those positive messages out. So I'm I'm optimistic, that as the sector grows, those views will dissipate. But we do need to keep on it, and we do need to help people understand the understand the cause.

Liz Allan  [00:06:19]:

I mean and I was gonna say, I still think, and I've written quite a lot about this lately, that we've got complicated terminology. We we've got miss we've got to counter the the misinformation. I think the complicated terminology like rapids, ultra ultra-rapid, CCS, CHAdeMO, all of this kind of stuff That kind of like you just said, you know, it blows your mind. What it's I kind of took it in really, really quickly, but not everybody's gonna put up with all of that, are they? So to me, it's about simplifying the terminology and getting the comms right.

Vicky Edmonds [00:06:55]:

Yeah. Absolutely. I was talking about this the other day. I think people are I think those in the EV sector are such enthusiasts about the sector, and they know everything there is to know about these water effectively new pieces of technology. But these are they are new and they are different, And trying to help people understand them is really important. When we talk to our members, who are really enthusiastic about their electric cars, but they tell us about how they have friends who just especially, sort of people who are elderly, they just can't make the leap because it's for them, the whole world of iPads and iPhones is hard enough. And then you've got a car that has a screen in it, and it's an on off button, and it's just completely different. And so you just it is a new it as I say, it is a leap of faith for some people to cross into this new technology, into this new world, and we have to help them.

Vicky Edmonds [00:07:41]:

I think as EVA England, we try to do that. So we try to work with our members to think about how we can how we can reassure people. So one of the projects that we want to do this year is putting some user' guides together for people thinking about buying an EV. You know, how do you do it? What does it mean? What are these cars? What do the numbers mean? What does battery size mean? Because these are the simple things that people don't understand and need to understand, and it's very easy for us in the EV world to say, of course, it's so obvious. But it isn't. Not if you've been used to a different world. And so simplifying it down, you're absolutely right. Making sure that people understand what it is they're buying and how it works is key.

Liz Allan  [00:08:20]:

Because exactly what you've just said, we can't just assume that because we know, everybody else does. You know, it's it's bringing those people on that journey with us, isn't it? And it's and it's actually trying to see it from their point of view and going back to where we were when we first started driving. Mine's not that long. It's kind of getting on for a couple of years now, but it, you know, this was part of the reason why I started this podcast, Vicky, to be honest, because I didn't know all of this stuff. I needed to kinda get people on the podcast so I could understand it myself. And then, of course, I wanted to spread the word and make it simple for people to understand, you know, but we have to kind of step back and go, how will we what was it like when we first start? We can't be evangelical about this. We've EV angelical. We've got to actually be able to communicate this in a really simple way to people.

Vicky Edmonds [00:09:22]:

Absolutely. Indeed. Indeed. Indeed. And I suppose I mean, this might be a good segue into talking a bit about EVA England and what we want to we want to do around that. So obviously having come into EVA England from the policy world, it's, it's it's been interesting to me that I feel very much like the driver's voice is lower down the pecking order than I had expected it to be and would like it to be. And you get, you know, you get this sort of big kind of titans of industry sort of talking about the death mandate. And the driver doesn't care particularly about the death mandate.

Vicky Edmonds [00:09:57]:

What they do care about is that they are going to be buying a car that they have never driven before and that they don't understand. And also the drivers who already have the cars care about the fact that sometimes the system there are still tweaks that need to be made to the system to just make it a smoother driving experience for them. At EVA England, it's our role to take that sort of voice of the driver in that view and make sure that it is being heard by policymakers in government, by kind of members of parliament who can influence that policy, and also by industry. So I think that sort of industry-facing work, just making sure that they understand, what their customers want is also really vital. And I think as EV England, we we have to play a really big role in that because we are the only organization that represents the EV driver only. We're independent of, any particular part of the sector. So we're an independent voice. So we can say, look, actually, this is what the driver needs and this is what the driver wants, and these are the changes and the tweaks that need to be made to help more people transition to electric and to help those people that have already transitioned, have a much easier experience, which then obviously impacts, you know, the sort of wider view of the public of these cars.

Liz Allan  [00:11:07]:

I think this yeah. Absolutely. You've got you are you have got that ability to provide that, you know, to the public, haven't you really? It's just reaching that audience. And going back to that Sky News article, one of the other things was that they were I can't remember what the percentage was. It was probably about 7% people of people thought that the petrol and diesel, band date was all petrol and diesel cars, you know, but which it isn't. It's new petrol and diesel cars. Yeah. So it just shows where, you know, where that missing miscommunication and those Chinese whispers down the pub are, oh my god, you know, we're being forced to get rid of our, you know, from cars, you know, blah blah.

Liz Allan  [00:11:56]:

And all this kind of stuff. Sorry. I'm sounding like a bloke there. I'm not meaning it. Women do this too.

Vicky Edmonds [00:12:01]:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. One of one of my most shocking conversations at the school gate recently was somebody saying, oh, what do you mean? Oh, I thought it was electric cars that were being phased out in five years because they're not working for anyone. So I mean, the misinformation is out there and yeah. It is really hard to kinda counter that and counter some of the headlines and, make sure that clickbait doesn't get the better of what this actually means.

Liz Allan  [00:12:28]:

I mean and that's and that's it, isn't it? If you think about it, that's and just as a sort of an aside, really, the media are pushing the narrative. Just they wanna they're pushing a narrative, but it's through clickbait titles because actually that brings them business. Yeah. Doesn't it? You know, if there's lots of people clicking I mean, this morning, yes, I did click on that one. But actually, normally, if I see something, I try not to because Yeah. Because that is just pushing the fact that, oh, you know, either it's gonna make me annoyed or it'll make just make them I'll I'm increasing their stats. So I try and I try and avoid I try and avoid it. I'd rather not.

Liz Allan  [00:13:05]:

Yeah. You know? So if we're talking about narrative then, what are your thoughts? So, obviously, like you just said, you know, Evie Englund can help push this kind of positive positive narrative. Where do you think we can obviously, you know, you're only a small organization like my business. You know, you're bigger in the way that you're, you you know, you look, but there's there's only a few of you. So how can we I mean, we've got kind of, the kind of Electric Vehicles UK that there are lots of organizations joined together there. But actually, what can we be doing? What do you reckon we could be doing already to sort of help this? Ask that, you know, either kind of free if we took it take it a step back. Right? What, can EVA England do to actually get government to recognize this, that there needs to be some kind of support with this, you know, reducing this amount of negative narrative?

Vicky Edmonds [00:14:10]:

Yeah. I mean, so I I mean, that that's an issue. So I think I think, so when I was in government, we used to we used to have the Go Ultra Low campaign, which was a really trusted source. It was a website, sponsored by, what was then OLEV, but which individual companies, also supported. And that was a really useful source of trusted information. However, I that kind of thing wouldn't work anymore because there are so many different companies out there, both on the car side and on the ChargePoint side and on the energy side, that it would just become too unwieldy. So I I sort of think it's not just for government anymore. I think there's more the industry as a whole collectively can do.

Vicky Edmonds [00:14:48]:

And my biggest concern is that everyone in the sector still talks to themselves. So, you know, it's breaking out of the sort of, I think, I sort of just called it the EV echo box that, when we hold events, you rarely get anybody who's not in the EV sector turning up, and it's the same I mean, to be honest, it's the same across the transport world. It's the same faces who come out again and again and again. And I think it's how do we break out of that? So how do we get how do we get journalists to pay more attention to us when they're writing their articles? As you say, sort of sort of not focus so much on the clickbait. How do we get government to perhaps coordinate and think about the messages that need to go out and how can they play a stronger role? And that's certainly something we will be talking to government about, but I do know they're already kind of thinking about that, but it's how can they be really effective. So you know, how can the government's messages go out and how can they get picked up? And then I think that kind of the consumer word-of-mouth, I think that's still one of the most powerful one of the most powerful things. So so when when I was in government, we put together and introduced the green license plate, and that has been, I think, one of the most successful things out there because you have a green stepper license plate. And everyone goes, oh, now you know what that if you're an EV driver, you know what that means and you can spot all the EVs.

Vicky Edmonds [00:16:02]:

You get, well, I do careers talks at my daughter's school, and the thing that the children always pick up on is the green license plate. And then every time they're in the car with their parents, like, oh, mom, look. That's an EV. How do you know that? Oh, because Sophie's mom told me. So, yeah, it's that kind of word-of-mouth and having those visual signals, which I think is really important. So I suppose that brings me on to one of the other things that Evie England might be hoping to sort of campaign on, which is EV signage, EV charge point signage.

Liz Allan  [00:16:28]:

Oh, god. Yes, please.

Vicky Edmonds [00:16:29]:

Yes. You've got the green license plates on the cars. Let's have some proper a proper strategy for EV charge point signs because they are very few and far between. There is no clear understanding of how they're going to be rolled out. Why have we got if we want this to be the future of transport, why are we not focusing on it? Why do we still have a sign for every petrol network where there is 95 military service stations? So we really need to work on how we're going to get EV signage rolled out, and that's definitely going to be one of our main, topics of conversation with government.

Liz Allan  [00:17:09]:

And that's got it. That is so needed. I mean, we need to have standardization of signs and, you know, and actually make sure that because it I feel that this is the other thing when people kinda go, oh, there's no EV charging in The UK. Well, there's actually thousands and thousands. But because it's not as obvious, it's not got big totems in a lot of cases like they do at petrol stations or if you go to, you know, some places, it's not where you know, charging isn't in the same places as we're fueling our vehicles with wet fuel, is it? You know? And so and they might be at the back of a car park. I'm not saying that's a good idea, but to be honest, because to me, they need to be more prominent. You know? But the signage has got to be more prominent. Let's just standardize it, and I know that's probably, and this is a question I wanna ask you actually.

Liz Allan  [00:18:02]:

I I think that this is gonna be would be very different if if EV charging was classed as critical infrastructure. It came up as a question. There was a pay through event I went to a couple of weeks back, and there was a question that was like, right. Okay. So is EV charging part of critical infrastructure? No. It's not. What would the difference be? Because you wouldn't have high Highways England, you know, high it is Highways England, isn't it? Kind of stepping back and not being involved in something like this because if it was you, you would have the narrative changing, wouldn't you?

Vicky Edmonds [00:18:40]:

Yeah. Indeed. Indeed. No. I I think that's definitely a debate that I think has been running for quite a while. So, yeah, it's a oh, yeah. It's it's a good point. It's like, why isn't designated critical national infrastructure? So one, again, something certainly to raise in discussions and consider.

Vicky Edmonds [00:18:55]:

Yeah. And I I mean, you you you talked a bit before, Liz, about us being quite a small organization, which is absolutely right.

Liz Allan  [00:19:02]:

I meant a number of people that work because it works. I don't mean the membership. Sorry.

Vicky Edmonds [00:19:06]:

No. No. No. No. No. You're right. I mean, the membership itself is, it is a really useful it's a really useful source of information for us because we can go out with questions to our members on specific issues, and we can ask them what they think about things or the experiences they've had. And we also connect into other drivers' networks as well.

Vicky Edmonds [00:19:25]:

So, obviously, Women Drive Electric is, for me, a really useful a really useful network to understand what drivers are thinking. So having that kind of that reach out to these drivers' networks is useful. But in terms of the sort of as you say, that the sort of the few members of staff that we have at EV England, I think collaboration with some of the other trade bodies is something I'm really keen on, and I'm and and they are too. And so working with others where we have shared interest to to think about some of these issues, is something that I'm really keen to promote, over this year. And so things like, you know, EV signage, I know there there are there are a couple of other trade bodies who are really interested in that. We talked about misinformation. You mentioned EV UK. Again, they they have, you know, whereas we sort of hang at the sharper end of policy and politics, they have the sort of communications expertise and working with organizations like that to help get those messages out and try to tackle some of these barriers.

Vicky Edmonds [00:20:18]:

I think it's going to be really important.

Liz Allan  [00:20:20]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Just going back to because I put my thoughts forward without actually letting you have an answer. What do you think sorry. What do you think we need to have regarding signage? Like I say, I've got as you can tell, I've got quite strong thoughts on it myself. But what what would you like to see?

Vicky Edmonds [00:20:39]:

I mean, as a minimum, I think we ought to have EV signs where there's a petrol pump sign. Okay. You know, especially on the motorway network. So why you wouldn't signal your EV charge points at the same time as signaling your existing refueling stations is an interesting question, and I think that that's an absolute minimum. I think, obviously, the same, in terms of directing people. As I said, once you come off the kind of motorway network, there's all I know there's lots of planning, kind of it becomes more complicated in planning permission and is there space and where do these signs go. But ultimately, you know, people get close close to EVs because there's this wonderful technology in their cars. They can find the charge points roughly.

Vicky Edmonds [00:21:21]:

But you need, first from a visibility point of view, for people who don't have EVs to understand that they're there. And secondly, as you say, they're often at the back of car parks, and you you drive into this car park. And I think one of our members said, you know, it's like trying somebody in the car always has to play spot the charger because no one can ever find it. So just keep in mind that here here's yours here's your EV charge point here in this car park. So where you've got parking sign, why can't you have an EV charging sign? Because that's often where they're located. And then when you're in the charger, why can't you have one directing them to it? And I I think it's that sort of, as a minimum, how do we make this this user journey easier, both for current and prospective EV drivers? So that that would be my kind of very simplistic view of it. But, but it just seems so hard sometimes. It just you know, plan planning laws seem almost impossible for people to sort of to work their way around to get just what seems like a new-brainer to the rest of us.

Vicky Edmonds [00:22:14]:

So I think that that's something we really want to try to delve into.

Liz Allan  [00:22:18]:

I love that. I think it's so that's so important. And, again, going back to that critical infrastructure thought, things might change if that's what it was deemed to be. I mean, if we're looking forward to kind of 02/1930, you know, 02/1935, surely it's gotta be because, you know, there's gotta be, a level of priority. So we I'd like to talk about the zed zed mandate in a minute if that's okay. But, you know, there's gotta be this prioritization of where charging is. You know? And Yeah. And that that user journey has gotta be part of that And being part of the critical infrastructure of this this country has to be has to be the way forward for everything because we are moving from wet fuel to electric.

Liz Allan  [00:23:06]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Sense, doesn't it?

Vicky Edmonds [00:23:08]:

Yep. Absolutely. Yep. It does. It does. And there are many and there are many, I think actually, I got called up for this at a conference recently, but I, obviously, being previous government time, perhaps more of a fan of regulation guidance than many others, especially in the industry, I expect. But I do feel that, you know, what you're right. What you need is a framework because every driver needs to have a good experience.

Vicky Edmonds [00:23:34]:

The difference about electric compared to the sort of petrol and diesel is that the charging experience is very diverse charging behavior is very diverse, and no one size fits all consumers. But what you need, therefore, is a proper framework that industry can work towards and that's across, I mean, that's across everything. So that's across kind of the, you know, the existing kind of public charge point regulations, which capture very well a certain part of the EV charging market, which is the sort of the charge points that we all know. Then you've got your kind of your kind of on-street call I call it the old term, on-street residential charging, which is those who have to charge, who don't have a driveway, who therefore need access to cheaper charging. And, you know, that's a different that's a different set of charging, and there are many solutions to that. So there are sort of the sort of pop-up charges, there's the cross pavement solutions, there's different kinds of tariff. But, you know, that market is not going to develop quickly if it doesn't have some guidance and a framework around it to push it along. And we've already seen some of the issues around the cost pavement solution where it's just people want them now, yet the market and the standards and the guidance and the planning laws are just not there yet.

Vicky Edmonds [00:24:42]:

So that's the sort of we need to be on the front foot on some of these frameworks. Signage is obviously another one, you know, which is a brainer. And then I guess the other one that that I don't think gets talked about enough is the really important past standard work, which is access for, to charges for people with disabilities. So that that's crucial. And there's a lot of really good work going on there, but it's really difficult. And, what we all need to do is sort of pull together and help develop a standard that everyone can meet and then get that standard refined over time to make sure it is appropriate for everyone, and it can be rolled out to a timetable. And I think that those sort of frameworks, I sort of feel like we really need to get on the front foot with those frameworks because as more and more people transition to EVs, these smaller issues crop up. So, you know, when we say they are EV drivers, they're not talking about range anxiety at all.

Vicky Edmonds [00:25:34]:

That's not what an EV driver experiences anymore. Those in the lower talking about cost of charging, access to chargers, and not being able to get, access to their home tariff because they don't have driveway. Those are the issues that, or yes, not being able to access a charge point if they have a disability, and those are the issues that we really need to be on top of.

Liz Allan  [00:25:54]:

And actually, this is all about you're just saying it's about the word inclusion, isn't it?

Vicky Edmonds [00:26:00]:

Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:26:02]:

We need to again, we need to bring everyone on this journey, like you said about creating or developing standards but making sure that those standards are not open to interpretation because I don't know about you, but you're and you can tell me about your thoughts on Zev and Paz and things like that. But if you leave things open to interpretation, it's just that. Yeah. It gets Everybody will everybody will just interpret it the way that they think is right.

Vicky Edmonds [00:26:33]:

Yeah. And that's that's bad for the consumer. So I sort of come back to this. I think it's not good for the consumer to not have trust and confidence in the product that they're buying or in the way that it works. And I think that's where these frameworks are really important. And I think that often as I say, that driver's voice, the consumer's rights often take a slight step kind of down the ladder to some of these other issues. And, you know, I think we were talking about battery health recently. So, you know, it's really important battery health.

Vicky Edmonds [00:27:07]:

So to, you know, some way of testing battery health because that's what consumers worry about when they buy a secondhand EV. Exactly. But just just waiting for the UN standard that's going through at the moment, which, you know, I don't know how long it's going to take and sort of had a few conversations with a few people, but just waiting for that probably isn't good enough right now because we're only five years away from the 2030 date. People are interested in buying these cars, but as all the kind of surveys coming out say they're just not quite ready to take that leap of faith, that accessing the secondhand market is absolutely critical for that. So just what can we do in the meantime? So how can we help consumers understand what it is they're buying and have confidence in it is something that I think gets a little bit lost in the debates around the ZEV mandate, which we can talk about in a second. But, you know, the ZEV mandate itself isn't what worries me as a consumer or as the head of a consumer organization.

Liz Allan  [00:28:04]:

I was gonna say, actually, just going back to what you said about consumers and the pecking order, I agree there. But, you know, and and I don't know why why as in the why is it that the person who is buying that service at the end is not being prioritized? Because we would do everywhere else, wouldn't we? Yeah. You know, we're we're talking about any other consumer experience. You would the customer you remember the phrase, the customer's always right.

Vicky Edmonds [00:28:34]:

I mean, they're not always,

Liz Allan  [00:28:35]:

You know. But it's it's about it's about that level of prioritization, isn't it? And and and I don't and I don't get it. I think in some ways, especially maybe on the charging side, there seems to be a real push for, you know, we've gotta get charges in the ground. Get it. I get it. And some charge point operators are doing fantastic jobs. What I would say is that there are there are issues with well, and we need to make sure that, we fulfill the investment requirements. You know?

Vicky Edmonds [00:29:09]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:29:10]:

But in the end, the end product is utilization. And if you're not prioritizing those customer needs, how are you gonna get utilization? And

Vicky Edmonds [00:29:20]:

I think it's exciting.

Liz Allan  [00:29:21]:

Give them a product they don't like.

Vicky Edmonds [00:29:23]:

Yeah. I think for us, if we for us, that's why the ZEV mandate consultation was really important, not because of the target. So we sort of so the ZEV mandate targets, I think, in my mind, you know, they they they they were brought in under regulation. It was about over a year just over a year ago. There was a wobble in the autumn, but I felt like government quite quickly came out and said, no, the the targets are going to stay. What we want to talk to you about is the cost of the transition. So making sure that it is affordable, I think, for industry and for, kind of, consumers. And for us, it's absolutely important that the target stay because you don't we've talked about consumer confusion.

Vicky Edmonds [00:30:06]:

You know, having a really clear mandate and being clear following this ZF mandate consultation that this is where we're headed and that's here to stay is important. And I think that got lost in the discussions around quite technical aspects of the Zevmandi, which are things like, you know, flexibilities for car manufacturers in their kind of trading credits, so which are about easing the cost for the car manufacturing industry. But they still have to, as a whole, the industry still has to meet those targets. And then the other question is around, you know, what cars are going to be included in that period from 2030 to 2035, which had never been set. And so that was about what the consultation was. And I I think all of that got completely confused and lost in the media debate and and various things coming out from industry and government. And, none of that is helpful because then, as you say, the customer is like, oh, I don't understand what's going on. Are these cars good? Am I supposed to buy them or am I not? And I think it's an issue.

Vicky Edmonds [00:31:00]:

As a whole, the industry needs to remember that, you know, we need to create that confidence in the market. But for us, when the ZEV Mandate consultation opened up, it had one question in it, which was about demand measures, which is basically how to reduce costs for the transition, including for the consumer. And that was the question that we as an organisation honed in on. And we sort of presented a bit of a menu to the government of the various things that the consumer worries about at the moment. So we did a survey of, as I said, sort of drivers and both our members and the wider driving community. We had around four fifty responses, which was pretty good for a two-week survey, which gave us some really clear, really clear feedback, which is one misinformation which we've which we've talked about, which is a barrier. The upfront cost is still a barrier to those who have not yet made the jump to EVs because money talks. So things like the salary sacrifice scheme, and the benefit accounting scheme have been really instrumental in persuading people to go electric in the first place because it's it's economically makes economic sense to them.

Vicky Edmonds [00:32:02]:

So making sure that those sorts of things that are working to reduce upfront cost and put people into these are still there. And then the other thing, and also we talk a bit about the secondhand market, like access to that lower cost EV market. Like when the price is right, people buy the cars. And that's been shown very well by France as a social leasing model, which is targeted at lower-cost EVs for lower-income families. And it it, when it was launched, it it sold out in six weeks. Like it was so so when the price is right, people will Yeah. Exactly. Tackling that and making sure that the price is right is really key.

Vicky Edmonds [00:32:36]:

And then on the charging side, it was the cost of charging. So that kind of making sure that those who don't have a driveway have access to the cheaper tariffs, that those who have a driveway are able to access. And then accessibility, which is where we talk about where we talk about the importance of the past standard work and the importance of signage. We also talked about it as perhaps, again, another less often talked about option, which is the fact that tenants have no right to charge at the moment. So if you're a tenant if you're in a rental property and and you ask your landlord for a charge point, they can just say no. So sort of just thinking about some of those little things that help that consumer competence. And for us, that's why that ZEV mandate consultation was important because it was a unique opportunity to give government an insight into all of the things that drivers actually are worrying about at the moment and and offer some solutions to tackling them. And that's how we use the zed mandate, consultation process.

Liz Allan  [00:33:33]:

So when do we know there's an I'm assuming there's a timeline on the kind of the responses to you know you know, there was a timeline to get the responses in. That's happened that's happened now, isn't it? But what is the kind of is there a timeline for that for the government to come back and say, this is what it looks like now? This is what we're responding back to you, industry.

Vicky Edmonds [00:33:57]:

Yeah. So there is a formal they they do have to formally respond to the consultation. And I think it's, actually, to be honest, I can't remember now if it's two or three months, such as my sort of aging brain, where they will have to put a bullet on the high. Yeah. However, there there are some there are some fiscal events which I sort of I sort of was hoping, you know, we might see some movement on. So we obviously have the budget. We've got the spending review coming up in the summer, and then you've got the presumably an autumn statement, again, sort of late autumn. So there are some events where things can happen, sort of outside of that timeline and on the on kind of on the financial side.

Vicky Edmonds [00:34:34]:

So on that sort of, you know, salary sacrifice, we sort of we called for a couple of, kind of tax exemptions as well. You know, we would hope to get decisions on that out of those fiscal events. And then and then, I guess, the regulatory stuff, then, yes, it would be really wonderful if there was some signaling that this work is going to go on. So, you know, things around signage are going to happen, the past standard. Obviously, we're sort of, you know, we would like to see, you know, greater impetus and movement on that and a bit more momentum around that, and then things like, you know, have we got the right sort of, structures in place for some of the existing funds and regulations. So that stuff I'd hope they would respond to in their formal response, and, obviously, we will, yeah, we'll keep prodding. But then, I mean, there's other stuff we can do. So as I say, we can work with industry.

Vicky Edmonds [00:35:22]:

We can think about how this could best be done. We can help, you know, industry can sometimes voluntarily pull together to create their own sort of standards. And it's just is there more that we could do as a sector to help chivvy this along, you know, in the because the government is a slow-moving beast because it's, it's hard to you know, you have several involved departments. And having been on the inside, it's hard to get agreement on everything really you know, it it just takes time, and they have to think about the impacts and on the for the full sector and that that sort of analysis takes takes more time. But we can perhaps be a bit more nimble and move a bit quicker on some of these issues. And so it'd be I'm keen on having that conversation with some, industry kind of partners in the sector and what can we do ourselves to keep this ticking and moving more quickly.

Liz Allan  [00:36:10]:

It's like lots of plates spinning all at the same time, isn't it? And I'm gonna ask you a final question then because I know you've got a you've got a dash soon. So what do you see as the kind of your what are the main priorities? And we've just talked about this, but what does the next six to twelve months look like for you as an organisation ? And you as a person getting into the role of CEO doesn't take two seconds. You know, it's it's a longer process, isn't it? What does it look like for you?

Vicky Edmonds [00:36:40]:

Yeah. I mean, it's definitely yeah. They're getting into the role of CEO and running the organisation . It's, having sort of spent the first few months focusing on the ZEV mandate, and consultation, but, it is pricey. But in terms of I think, we would like to use our response as a platform for, I I say campaigns are some of the things that we think are most pertinent at the moment. So one is this cost of charging, the charging divide as we call it. I've heard it called the payment tax. So that's sort of helping people access home energy tariffs, and how can we best do that?

Vicky Edmonds [00:37:12]:

So we'd like to dig a little bit deeper into that and look at what's driving those high public charging costs that are out there on the network at the moment, what's already going on to bring them down because I think a lot of it is linked to electricity markets and kind of, again, sort of slower moving beast, but then also kind of what else could be done, you know, especially with local authorities to help kind of solve that for the consumer. Past standard is going to be kind of important kind of piece of work for us as well, and we'll be kind of working with our members on helping move that move, get some momentum behind that and thinking about how to get kind of the standard kind of rolled out in the way that it should be. So that's going to be that's going to be, really important for us as well. And then I think the third one is we've talked about the second-hand market, but we did I think that I think a little bit more of a push there is needed. So, you know, we we know that other countries have done some really interesting stuff around that. We know that when the price is right, consumers will leak these vehicles. So how do we help particularly lower-income households access the lower cost EVs? Whether lower-cost new or used EVs, what are the structures that we can put in place? And there there are some big opportunities there. We've got the National Wealth Fund, which is sort of a ring fence fund.

Vicky Edmonds [00:38:25]:

You know, we sort of proposed in our cost exchange response, how could you make use of that to do some kind of loan guarantee or social leasing scheme. So I think there's some work to be done there, perhaps to try and push some ideas in the right direction and, you know, hope that we might change some thinking around that. And I think that's sort of three that I've got in my head, of sort of, as I say, using some of the plat the platform that we've created with asymptomatic response to perhaps hone a bit deeper into some of these issues and try and get some

Liz Allan  [00:38:53]:

You're gonna I was gonna say, you are gonna be a one busy lady. You are, aren't you? You're gonna be one busy lady. I think I think what EVA England are doing and yourself and the team, you know, like I say, because you, you know, it's a small team, but you're the reach that you've got through the membership is amazing and, you know, and just look you look at it from the driver's point of view which makes such a difference. So I just I just want to say keep doing what you're doing, Vicky. I think it's fantastic. You know, I know it's not I know it's not easy and you sometimes it's a bit of an uphill battle to kind of get through things, isn't it? But, you know, it's just keep doing it because we're all doing we're all trying to do our bit. I know that, but just keep doing what you're doing and just say thank you. It's been a joy talking to you today.

Liz Allan  [00:39:49]:

Thank you. And and so so lovely to kind of hear it from from you about what's going on and Zev and everything else. And I'm sorry that I got on my orange box a little bit about things. It's a good idea.

Vicky Edmonds [00:40:04]:

That's a way. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:40:06]:

We're both very passionate. You can tell. You know? Yeah. And people know who've been listening and watching this podcast, you know, listening to and watching it for some time that that that's the kind of person that I am because I just want Evie adoption to work, you know, as well as the rest of the decarbonisation of, you know, it's not just about transport, it's decarbonisation of heat and everything. So we need to do this and we all need to kind of try and do our bit. And just having those incentives and push you pushing this narrative is fantastic. So thank you, Vicky. I appreciate your time.

Vicky Edmonds [00:40:42]:

Thank you.

Liz Allan  [00:40:43]:

So to to everybody listening and watching, I hope you've enjoyed this episode. She's a wonderful person. I can tell you that. We've not even met face-to-face yet. There will be time. Yeah. Just if you can if you can push this podcast and share it, like, subscribe, and all of the wonderful things that I always ask you at the end of this, I would appreciate it. We're on across a lot of social media channels.

Liz Allan  [00:41:10]:

We're especially on LinkedIn. So if you see our post, just please comment and give us some feedback about what you thought about the episode. And if you've got any suggestions about people to bring on, let me know. So on that note, Vicky, I'm gonna say thank you very much. Again, it's been wonderful. And to everyone else watching and listening I'm gonna say goodbye. Thanks for listening to Electric Evolution. I really love bringing you these weekly conversations about sustainability, renewables and building a cleaner future together.

Liz Allan  [00:41:41]:

If you're passionate about positive change please subscribe or send me a comment via your favourite podcast platform and don't forget to share with others who also care about these topics. You can also download our white paper plugging into the future at fullcircleci.co.uk and join the discussion on improving sustainable transport or email me at liz@fullcircleci.co.uk

Thanks for listening, bye.