Episode 153: Liz Allan and Ben Thorp - Building Trust and Smarter Destination Charging

Episode 153: Liz Allan and Ben Thorp - Building Trust and Smarter Destination Charging.

Liz Allan is joined by Ben Thorp, EV Charging Specialist at Ratio EV. Ben shares his journey from working in solar and battery systems in Australia to helping shape the UK’s destination charging landscape. With a passion for sustainability, partnership, and circularity in manufacturing, Ben explains how Ratio EV designs and builds AC charge points for homes, businesses, and public destinations, always with the customer in mind.

Liz and Ben discuss the importance of trusted installer networks, why “big isn’t always better” in EV charging, and how proactive maintenance, dynamic load balancing, and flexible back-office integration make a real difference. They explore the value of destination charging for hotels, workplaces, and leisure venues, and how this approach can deliver both driver convenience and business benefits.

Ben Thorp Bio:
Ben Thorp is an EV industry professional with a unique career path that spans continents and technologies. After starting out in Chester, Ben spent several years in Australia working with a solar and battery storage start-up, where he developed a deep understanding of renewable energy systems. Since returning to the UK, he has been instrumental in growing Ratio EV’s presence, focusing on AC charging solutions for homes, workplaces, and destinations. Known for his open, collaborative approach, Ben works closely with installers and Charge Point Operators to deliver reliable, sustainable, and easy-to-maintain charging infrastructure, manufactured locally with circularity at its core. 

Quote of the Episode
"The key to great EV charging is trust; between manufacturers, installers, and drivers. Without it, everything else falls down." — Ben Thorp.

Transcript

Liz Allan  [00:00:01]:
Okay, so on today's episode, I have with me Ben Thorpe from Ratio EV, and he's an EV charging specialist. We've been talking for a little while, Ben, haven't we? And we were introduced through Heather Kennedy, who is a wonderful person. And she's already been on the podcast. So thank you ever so much for joining me, and thanks to Heather for introducing you.

Ben Thorpe [00:00:22]:
No, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Liz Allan  [00:00:25]:
So, let's talk about Ratio EV in a second and what you do. Because we've just been having a chat and I've been learning, learning all sorts, and I was doing a bit of a search and looking through, you know, various LinkedIn stuff, and it's, and it's really interesting. So you're based, you personally are based up in Chester, aren't you? And you said you were, but you've been born and bred in Chester, moved away for a bit and then came back. But let's talk, let's talk a little bit about what you've done and how you kind of got to. Got to be the EV specialist at Ratio.

Ben Thorpe [00:01:03]:
No, of course. So, yeah, a bit about me. Yeah, I was born and raised in Chester, went travelling for a little bit and spent about three and a half to four years living over in Australia. And that was kind of the first time I got introduced to the renewable world, let's call it. So I was working for a startup over there. It was a solar and battery system provider. They were working commercially and domestically. Always wanted to get into the EV when I was younger.

Ben Thorpe [00:01:32]:
My old man was a mechanic, so I had interesting cars, more petrol, diesel cars back in the day there, as you do. Yeah, obviously. But then, when I came back to the UK, the opportunity to join Ratio came around. And Ratio at the time, we're new to the UK as well, so I could put a few of the experiences I learned over in Australia with a new startup over there into action over here. And I've been at Ratio now, coming up to two and a half years, I believe. So it's. It's gone fast.

Liz Allan  [00:02:05]:
Time flies when you're having fun.

Ben Thorpe [00:02:08]:
It does, it does. It goes too quickly sometimes.

Liz Allan  [00:02:10]:
It does. I know. I can't believe how far we are in this year already. So let's talk a little bit then about. About what? So what brought you to Ratio itself then? What, what kind of attracted you to the business? Let's. We can talk about that and then talk about what Ratio actually, actually does and what it would produce.

Ben Thorpe [00:02:31]:
So when I came back to that I was looking for new opportunities, something that I could really, I could really grasp with two hands, I suppose. I love the idea of working with the startup over in Australia so I had the same kind of thing I was looking for here. I just wanted something that I could grow personally, professionally, but also to make a real impact within the renewable sector. So for me, that was the only industry I was looking into. The main things that I suppose attracted me to Ratio were that they're part of a wider group. They're part of a group called the FW Thorpe Group. And FW Thorpe has got a group of companies that are kind of in the lighting, emergency lighting sectors, but they've got a global footprint, and they really focus on sustainability and circularity at heart and that for me was huge. And yeah, when I sat down with the guys at Ratio, it's like yeah, this, this is what I want.

Ben Thorpe [00:03:25]:
This is where I feel like it could go. So, so let's, let's see what we can do.

Liz Allan  [00:03:31]:
So Ratio manufactures 7 and 22 kilowatt charges, but we're talking destination charging, aren't we here?

Ben Thorpe [00:03:42]:
Yeah, Ratio. Well, we manufacture the full range of charge points, but it's all AC charging. So what that means is we've got a range of home charging, we've got a range of wall-mounted commercial charge points, and we've got a range of freestanding commercial charging. And that commercial charging or destination charging, as you mentioned, is our sweet spot. That's what we're really good at. That's where we've got a USP, let's.

Liz Allan  [00:04:08]:
Call it and that and that kind of, that makes, makes a difference, doesn't it? When you're specifically channelling into that area for you as a business. So who are you currently working with? We've kind of chatted about this, but if you just want to explain about who your customers are and what the predominant sectors are that you're kind of selling into.

Ben Thorpe [00:04:36]:
Yeah. So our main customer base is that we deal directly with our installer network, with our CPOs, with our ChargePoint operators who prefer and enjoy using our hardware. But we also deal a little bit as well with specialist EV wholesalers, let's put them and the reason we deal with bit of wholesale but mainly in stores is just because we prefer to build partnerships, we want to deal direct with them so we can offer that support if it's required but also, on the other hand, if something does go wrong, then we want to be able to rectify it as soon as possible. And if you're going through multiple channels to do that, it could not only damage our reputation as Ratio, but it's. It looks bad on the installers or CPOs as well. Because they don't know who to talk to.

Liz Allan  [00:05:25]:
No. And that's. And that's. Yeah, that's difficult, isn't it? So how do you choose those installers? You know, how does it work? Are you kind of? Are you working with a group of installers that you've been working with for a while?

Ben Thorpe [00:05:46]:
Yes and no. So we're always open to developing new partnerships or bringing on new installers to our approved installer network. It's just building trust, building a partnership. We only want to work with installers or ChargePoint operators who want to work with us and vice versa. In the domestic game, it's probably fair to say it's a little bit of a rat race. There's a. There's a lot of. I won't tarnish any energy retailers, but there are a lot of energy retailers that are throwing charge points on.

Ben Thorpe [00:06:23]:
On houses for pennies. And a lot of installers or even CPOs can't compete financially with that.

Liz Allan  [00:06:33]:
Yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:06:33]:
But on the commercial side of it, you work with people who really care about what they do. And as long as our installers are proud of the work and really want to make a difference, then. Yeah, crack on. We'd love to have conversations with you.

Liz Allan  [00:06:52]:
I think the fact there's one word that you just come up with there and that was trusted. The fact that you're talking about a trusted installer network, you know, or trusted partnerships, you know, building that trust is so important, isn't it?

Ben Thorpe [00:07:11]:
It's huge. It's. We live in. In a world now where everything's posted on social media, there's news articles every day about how bad EVs are and why you shouldn't have them. And the last thing we need or installers need is. Is a poor install or something not to go to plan because it'll. It'll just get. Yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:07:35]:
Shouted about a shared. And it doesn't only damage our reputation or the installer's reputation, it just damages the. How would you phrase it? It damages the kind of perception on EVs and EV charging infrastructure out there at the moment, which is not good for anyone.

Liz Allan  [00:07:52]:
No, exactly. All you need is, you know, it's kind of. It's a bit like domino topping, isn't it? You kind of need one or two and then you kind of, it's, it starts and every then the news kind of goes, oh, look, that one, like you say, tarnishes the rest, which. So I think, I think you're doing the right thing. It's very wise of you to actually do it this way and make sure that you're working with kind of trusted installers. I mean, you're, you're an EV driver yourself, aren't you? Yeah. How long have you, have you been driving an ev? Since you started at Ratio or did you, did you stop?

Ben Thorpe [00:08:29]:
You know, when I first started a ratio, I was driving a self-charging hybrid.

Liz Allan  [00:08:34]:
Right, okay, we'll let you off.

Ben Thorpe [00:08:37]:
But yeah, I moved to EV probably year and a half to two years ago now.

Liz Allan  [00:08:42]:
Yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:08:43]:
Thankfully I've got a driveway at home so I can take advantage of the cheap overnight tariffs that a few retailers give. But I found the experience seamless and it's probably fair for me to say that I reckon I spend less time charging or filling up my car than petrol or diesel drivers do. I never have to go out of my way, stop for five minutes, get out the car, plug a fuel nozzle into my car, wait for it to fill up, walk in, hey, get back in my car. I can, I can charge wherever I am. It takes me what, five seconds to get out my car, plug my car and then off I go. I can go do what I need to do.

Liz Allan  [00:09:23]:
You've got to tell me what, what are you driving then?

Ben Thorpe [00:09:26]:
I'm driving a BYD seal, see.

Liz Allan  [00:09:29]:
Exactly. And that means that if you are out and about and you do need to use public charging, then you still have to use a regular. You're not using like the Tesla Super Supercharger network. You're using regular kind of public charging, anyway, aren't you?

Ben Thorpe [00:09:45]:
Exactly. Yeah. And look, I cover a fairly large chunk of the uk. I'm up in Scotland with Heather actually on Wednesday. So from, I'm not going to get from Chester to Glasgow, it is back to Chester without the need for charging a public or a DC supercharger. So I still do use that infrastructure as well. But I only stay at hotels that have got a AC charge point because when I get there I'll plug in, might be late, I want to go straight to bed, I don't have to worry about sitting in my car waiting for it to charge to then move it. So another visitor or individual that's staying at the hotel can charge their vehicle up.

Liz Allan  [00:10:27]:
It's funny because we were talking about this before we started recording, didn't we? But I was down in Glastonbury this weekend. No, this wasn't for you watching and listening. This wasn't the weekend of the festival. I wasn't down for that reason, but. And I was on my own, and literally there were two chargers near me, and they were both DC chargers. So. But they were, they were rapid. So there were 50 kilowatt chargers.

Liz Allan  [00:10:54]:
So I wasn't staying in Glastonbury, I was staying somewhere nearby. And I kind of said to you, didn't I? One was at a hotel, and it was sandwiched in the middle. It was bizarre. It was sandwiched in the middle of a car park with just one space and one charger. And I think it was quite an old one, so it's quite a legacy. An old legacy one. Then there was another one that was a pub, just kind of not very far down the road. And I had to pay for parking, and I had to pay for charging, but there were no destination charges.

Liz Allan  [00:11:28]:
It was all. It was either the two rapids or nothing, really, where I was staying. So. But the one good thing was that I could go for a meal. I had my food, got back to the car, and it was charged. Know it was charged enough for me to get back to Reading. So that was fine. But it would have been good if.

Liz Allan  [00:11:48]:
And I was staying at a pub with a room, you know, accommodation. Yeah, it would have been good if they'd had some kind of destination charging there. And there are massive benefits in having destination charging at hotels and places like that, aren't there?

Ben Thorpe [00:12:04]:
I completely. Look, there is a need for both. There's a need for a mixture of. Of all speeds of charging. But we mentioned it briefly as well before we joined the podcast that. So we manufacture all our commercial units down in Redditch, which is just south of Birmingham, but there's a local pub in the back end of nowhere that isn't on any major roads, it's not on any highway networks, but they've got 250 kilowatt DC units. It doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help local residents who don't have access to a driveway because once they've stopped for half an hour, they're gonna have to move the vehicle again.

Ben Thorpe [00:12:41]:
Yeah, but there's also the cost implications on top of this. To install one or two 150 kilowatt units is a lot fairly Big expense compared to installing 10, 15, 22 kilowatt charge points. And think of it as you may, if you've got 22 sockets that are smaller, slower people are going to stay for longer at your business, your facility. Whereas with 150 kilowatt DC you need to move within after 30 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever it takes to fill your car up. Because a lot of the charge point operators or charging management systems have an overstay fee. And yes, the longer you stay, the quicker this ramps up.

Liz Allan  [00:13:22]:
Like I said, for me in Glastonbury, I had to kind of pay for the parking, and I just thought I knew what was going to happen. My food will take longer in the pub. Once you get to 80, obviously, it's kind of more trickle charging in. But I didn't want to have. So I downloaded the parking app. I was using Octopus Electroverse, which was actually really good, I've got to say, because. And I've not got it connected to our energy tariff, although we're on the Octopus Electroverse at home.

Ben Thorpe [00:13:56]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:13:56]:
But I got. Because it was after 7 pm, I got it for a 20% discount. So that was like a Brucey bonus to me while I'm sitting, eating my dinner. But you know, so that I really. I re. Appreciated that and actually the seamless ability to be able to charge using the electroverse, and I had the card because actually, do you know what I've got to say? And I don't know whether it's just me being a bit thick, but there were two chargers, and on the app, it was kind of. There was a list of all the charges, but I couldn't see the serial numbers on the units.

Ben Thorpe [00:14:36]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:14:37]:
You know, and, and if there's not a physical like this is serial number, blah blah, blah, it's quite hard to suss out, is it that one or is it that one? Which way are they giving the numbers? And like I said there are only two units there. But so I ended up using my Electroverse card because I was like, oh, I just can't be bothered to work this out. I'll end up charging on the wrong. You know, I'll do, I'll set up a charge, and it'll be on the wrong one, knowing me. So, so I literally used the card but it worked and it was really quick and you know, but like I say it would have been nice if I. Because I had to watch the parking to make sure. That I didn't go over my parking charges.

Ben Thorpe [00:15:14]:
Three different things.

Liz Allan  [00:15:16]:
Yeah. So it's like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time, isn't it? You know, but that, that in itself was kind of like a little, a little bit challenging. But again, if there have been destination charging in there, you know, some 7 or 22 kilowatts and I know that maybe I might have only still managed to get, I think I can, I can't remember how many kilowatts I can get through our EV. I wouldn't have probably got the 22 because of the inverter. But, you know, I'm, do you know, I've just surprised myself with how much I've learned in the last over two and a half years about this. But actually, do you know? I learned that bit on the destination side from a friend of mine, Marv Samuels, who I know listens. So thanks, Marv, you really, really helped me. But like I say, let's, let's talk again about your thoughts on the importance of destination charging and where, where are you, where are your installer network? Where are they predominantly installing? I know we've talked hotels, but you've kind of got a number of different places, haven't you, that you're, that you're kind of, that you're charging. The posts, especially, are kind of being.

Ben Thorpe [00:16:28]:
Installed in, yes, anywhere really, where an individual visitor, customer is going to be parked for 1, 2, 3, 4 hours. So for me, I've started playing a little bit of golf this year. I spend four, five, six hours on a golf course, maybe on a weekend that is a perfect time to charge, drive to the golf course, plug in. By the time I finish, my car's pretty much fully charged again. But it workplaces, there's a, there's been a huge uptake now on workplaces installing either infrastructure for staff, visitors, customers, because there's a lot of government grants available for them as well. But it's an added revenue stream and especially we mentioned it briefly before the podcast, if you've got a full roof of solar and you're producing excess solar than what you actually need, you could transition that solar to charge the vehicles that are there. So you've got ultimately 100% cost saving instead of selling it back to the grid. Because I don't know what you get now for selling solar back to the grid, but I can't imagine it's great.

Liz Allan  [00:17:35]:
Well, for home charging, it's probably different, you know, for us I think we get more to sell it back for us as consumers than we do the overnight tariffs. So my. But we've got a battery storage as well. So my husband loves using, using the app for exporting and he gets a bit excited, like, you know, we've just made 10 pence, that kind of thing.

Ben Thorpe [00:18:01]:
It makes sense.

Liz Allan  [00:18:03]:
Yeah. If you're gonna, what's that phrase? Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves, or something, you know. And it is that, isn't it? Especially when we're talking about. And I know, I know we're talking about workplace charging, but as a consumer, from our point of view, you know, the cost of living increase is, you know, it makes things a little bit challenging, not just, you know, for lots of people. So, so any money that you can save, no matter where it is, is a good thing, isn't it? You know.

Ben Thorpe [00:18:33]:
Completely agree.

Liz Allan  [00:18:34]:
But yeah, but like you're saying, actually making money as a business, because I think, I think you're right probably for business export, you know, going back to the grid, I can't, I don't know, but I can't see. There would be a.

Ben Thorpe [00:18:48]:
We've got our factory in Redditch, we've probably got about 400 plus solar panels on the roof and the manufacturing facility, utility, we haven't got many heavy machines running. So all our units are manufactured from recycled aluminium. So it's. Yeah, but it's local people, local products with full circularity in mind. So it is, it's a, it's a lovely story with sustainability kind of at the real heart of it. But because of that we haven't got many big machines in our manufacturing facility. So we're producing so much more than what we need. But then any staff, visitors, customers who are coming to visit the factory, working at the factory, charge up during the day.

Ben Thorpe [00:19:27]:
It's, it's all green energy. There's no need for pulling extra power from the grid.

Liz Allan  [00:19:32]:
I love that, I love the fact I, I didn't know, I didn't know that story. I think that's really, really good. So if you're actually able to do that. And I didn't know about the whole circularity with the aluminium and the recycling. So as. Have you been doing that since you started manufacturing them over in the UK, then?

Ben Thorpe [00:19:52]:
Yeah, so. Well, we've still got a manufacturing facility over in Nykirk in the Netherlands, which is where we're based. Over there, we manufacture our wall-mounted units. So that's our io5 and io6. And we got purchased by the FW Thought Group about three, three and a half years ago. And that's where we started the design and the manufacturing of the twin pillars, the iO7, the iO8. But yeah, it was designed to achieve, let's say, a long lifetime, but it was always there with that circularity in mind. We wanted to design it using recycled materials to kind of reduce the number of components, but also make sure the units could be repairable in the field without the need to replace the full unit, if that makes sense.

Liz Allan  [00:20:40]:
Right, I get you. That's. That is so good that. Oh, you've just ticked a load of my boxes there. Just with what you've said, you know, the whole recycling and kind of getting the local. Local people are working there. So. So how many?

Liz Allan  [00:20:58]:
How many people work for Ratio in the UK versus. Versus kind of like in the Netherlands then?

Ben Thorpe [00:21:05]:
Probably about a 50 50 split. We've probably got about 20 to 30 in the UK and that's including our manufacturing facility over here, probably in the. In the Netherlands, maybe 30 to 40. It's a. It's a little bit similar on both sides of it.

Liz Allan  [00:21:23]:
Yeah, no, that's cool. And got. You've got to tell me as well, what does a day in the life of you look like? You've got to tell me this bit.

Ben Thorpe [00:21:31]:
Yeah, it's. It's ever changing, I suppose, which is. Which is quite a lot. Which is why enjoy it. No day is the same. It's not mundane. I personally could not be sat behind a desk every day doing the same stuff day in, day out, which is why sales interested me. You're talking to so many different people, interesting people.

Ben Thorpe [00:21:52]:
You build friends for life, really, that are all focused on similar things. You've got similar interests. A day in the life for me would be. Could be anything. It depends. If I'm out on the road visiting installers, customers. Podcast is a first for me.

Liz Allan  [00:22:10]:
Are you doing all right?

Ben Thorpe [00:22:14]:
And phone calls. It varies and that's really why I enjoy it.

Liz Allan  [00:22:21]:
So. But you're working kind of with the installers and going to the kind of the locations where they're going in and, and things like that is do you get kind of involved, you know, sort.

Ben Thorpe [00:22:32]:
Of the install per se. But what we've started doing, we've got a real push now on case studies. So once one of our installers or CPOs have installed the unit, they're. They're happy with it then. Yeah, I'll drive out, have a little look at the Install, take some photos, get a bit of customer feedback and then we'd run this back past our installers and CPOs and see if they're happy for us to publish it because we're proud of all the work, all our installers and CPOs are done, we're proud of our hardware and, and we've mentioned it multiple times, but that, that trust and partnerships is really what we're focused on.

Liz Allan  [00:23:10]:
Yeah, definitely. And you were also talking about before we started recording about how you kind of work with regards to kind of like back office as well. So you've got your own CPMS system, haven't you? But you. I loved your words as well. I love when you said you're not precious, I love that you're not, you are not precious in inverted commas in the way that actually you went, you know, you're open and happy for say like a ChargePoint operator to use their preferred CPMs, you know, their charge point management system.

Ben Thorpe [00:23:46]:
You know, our units are full OCPP that they're ready to make the jump as well to the, the new OCPP 2.0 when the CP CSMS is ready to make the transition as well. So I can't remember how I phrased it, but all our units were software agnostic. So it's up to installers, Charge Point operators, customers, what back office they want to use. We've got our own, so we can offer the ratio charge points with the ratio for business back office if that's what an installer wants to do. A few installers we work with want to get involved with that side of it and that's where we're happy to offer our expertise on that. But we're really good at making products that last and work and you stick with what you're good at, I suppose.

Liz Allan  [00:24:35]:
Yeah, absolutely. But you, but you do also offer like the custom 247 customer support as well. So that's brilliant, you know.

Ben Thorpe [00:24:43]:
Yeah. So on all the units that have been bought, whether or not it's a Ratio for business or one of our ChargePoint operators or installers' back offices, they'll be vinyl. There'll be stickers on the units to make it easy for customers to use. If there's something they're unsure of, there's always a 24-hour helpline there. Look, give them a call, they can talk you through how to start a charge if it's your first time. Because we were mentioning it before, weren't we? The first time I charged a public charge point, I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I was looking dumbfounded at this massive thing with really heavy cables and I didn't know what I was doing. But, yeah, I can't remember where it was, I can't remember what operator it was, but there were no instructions or guidelines on the unit. It was, it was a passerby that ultimately talked me through it because it was, it wasn't the byd, but the first vehicle I purchased, the dealership, they didn't, didn't help at all.

Ben Thorpe [00:25:40]:
They just kind of said, Here's your key, see you later.

Liz Allan  [00:25:45]:
Oh, this is. I said to you, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get on the orange box now. Because that is one of my, yeah, one of my big things that, that you just don't get told this stuff. And, and I said to you before we start recording, didn't I? About. And I've written about this fairly recently about a couple that I'd met that my husband knew. And I might mention this on the last podcast, I'm not sure, but, but literally all they wanted was to go for a test drive. They didn't know. They didn't know what they.

Liz Allan  [00:26:15]:
What, whether they wanted a plug-in hybrid or, you know. Yeah, plug-in hybrid or just a full electric. But the, and they. All they wanted. And I don't think I told you this bit, all they wanted to do was they wanted to be able to put a wheelchair in the back. That was there. That was their main, the main thing that they wanted. And they didn't, they didn't flip and get it.

Liz Allan  [00:26:39]:
They didn't even get a test drive, you know, and I've had issues myself with various different dealerships and places like that, you know, which just can't be like selling a petrol or diesel car, can it? You don't just put a nozzle in and go pull the button, and then that's it. It's not the same. But we're not being taught that. People aren't being taught that. And, there are a lot of people who don't know what they don't know, so they wouldn't know to Google it in the first place. So I don't. I'm sorry, if you've been an EV driver and you're listening, if you've been an EV driver for ages, I'm sorry, but you have to remember what Ben's saying. And I had a very similar experience on mine, and I'd been running this podcast for a bit, but even then, it's still hard to understand that, you know, if you've got home charging, even that's a little bit of a minefield, isn't it? But actually, once you've got into it, it's, it's just great.

Liz Allan  [00:27:40]:
I just came in, did a little bit of a skip with my cable, and then plugged in.

Ben Thorpe [00:27:46]:
But the easiest thing in the world.

Liz Allan  [00:27:48]:
Yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:27:48]:
Once you've done it once.

Liz Allan  [00:27:49]:
Yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:27:50]:
Or once you've been. Been told how to do something, it's, it's. No, it's not complex at all. But we're a special species. We like, we do what we're good at, and we kind of stick to it. And I suppose that's why there's a little bit of a pushback from EV, because people don't like change. But even I mentioned it before, my old man's a mechanic. I didn't want anything to do with EVs.

Ben Thorpe [00:28:16]:
Nah. I don't like them. No moving parts and all that. But he's a bit of a speed freak now, and he. I think his next vehicle is going to be an EV as well. And I never thought that I'd ever come out of his mouth.

Liz Allan  [00:28:28]:
And, you do see people moving over. I think at some point they're going to be. And I definitely said this on the last one, there're going to be more people that everybody knows. And we'll get to that tipping point where, you know, there'll be. There'll always be somebody that, you know, that's got an ev. But the main thing is we just need to make sure that everybody knows how to use the charging. They need to know about regen, they need to know about various different drive modes and what they do, and how, you know, and the fact that if you do put your foot down on an EV and you take it off really quickly. Yes.

Liz Allan  [00:29:02]:
You are going to keep getting motion sickness if you do that, because it's. It's feather-like, isn't it? It's different. My nephew. I've talked about this on and off a few times on here. My nephew drove. Oh, my goodness. I'm not going to say what it was. But anyway, his car was in for service.

Liz Allan  [00:29:19]:
Somebody gave him. The dealership gave him an ev. It did. He didn't know how to drive it. He literally got motion sickness just because he was driving it like a petrol car.

Ben Thorpe [00:29:29]:
You can get whiplash on that. First time you put your foot down on an electric car because there's just no, there's no traction. It's. It's push and go.

Liz Allan  [00:29:37]:
Exactly. But also the stop in, if you've got strong regen, then the stopping, if you kind of take your foot off when you come into a junction or something like that, if you take your foot off to go to the break. Yeah, you're literally going. So I understand about Adam, my nephew, what was going on, but that wasn't up to him to be just reading up on it. He was only having it as a, as a temporary car while his car was in for service. So we do need to get that education, education about the car and education about. About charging. Because that's, that's so important, isn't it, really?

Ben Thorpe [00:30:13]:
It's huge. It's. It's a completely different sell. For car dealerships selling a petrol or diesel vehicle to sell in an EV, like the features and all the gadgets and gizmos, let's call them in, EV vehicles are just above and beyond where petrol and diesel cars are. But it's just understanding how to use them or how to charge, charge your vehicle that you don't necessarily think of that much when you're purchasing a car.

Liz Allan  [00:30:39]:
So my next question is then, I mean, obviously I know that you're working with the installer base and, you know, various various other places, but, but what are the, the common misconceptions that people are, are coming to you with when. When, you know, say, like, you've got a new installer network or whatever, you know, or even, even customers who, if you're going to look at a charging site, are there specific kind of things that people are going, oh, well, I think it's blah, you know, and you kind of go, where did that come from?

Ben Thorpe [00:31:11]:
You know, a lot of people think big is better. So, for workplaces or wherever it may be, customers, let's say, they always think, oh, well, I need the fastest charger possible, and I want it because it's the best, it'll charge my cars quicker. But then your car's parked there overnight, why does it need to be charged in half an hour? You could charge that car in 9, 10 hours and save yourself a lot of money. But it does exactly the same thing. It's fully charged for when you need it. Granted, there may be a few circumstances where you might need something bigger or better for a delivery vehicle or something, something that you need to recharge quickly, but that's where DC and AC units have been working in conjunction. Now, more frequently, you go to workplaces and hotels, where there's a mixture of both. And I think that's what we need to keep happening, especially at destinations.

Ben Thorpe [00:32:12]:
We've thrown the word around a few times because that's what makes the transition so much easier.

Liz Allan  [00:32:18]:
So how, how do you go from that, that bigger is better conversation to, to kind of explain to that potential customer, that person, you know, whoever it is, who doesn't know about charging because maybe they don't drive an EV themselves, but they recognise the need. How do you get them over that barrier, that hurdle?

Ben Thorpe [00:32:44]:
It's just understanding why they want it or what they want. And that's where all of our installers and CPOs are proud of what they do, and they want to install the right products for the right people. Look, our units might not always be the perfect unit for every perfect situation, and we're fine with that, but we need to just understand what people need to give them the right solution. Because we're all striving towards the same goal here. We want the world to be a better place, a greener place.

Liz Allan  [00:33:20]:
Yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:33:21]:
So just. Yeah, yeah, that's. I think that pretty much answers it.

Liz Allan  [00:33:25]:
No, I get it, I get it. And I think that's a really good, good way to kind of look at these conversations that you're having, you know, because. Yeah, it is, it is trying to. We are all, we're all in it for the right reasons, aren't we? You know, we're doing it because we want, you know, we want things to be better. But I was going to say. So, so we talk, we've talked about your installer network, but what we've not covered are kind of like the, the sort of. I know I mentioned about the customer support side, but you've got a, you've got warranty on the units, haven't you?

Ben Thorpe [00:34:02]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:34:02]:
And you. If you're working with a charge point operator, they'll probably come out with, you know, they'll organise like a maintenance plan or something like that. But you've got, you've got kind of the warrant. The warranty covers you sorting out any hardware issues.

Ben Thorpe [00:34:22]:
Exactly that. So we offer a full warranty on all our units. Three to five years, depending on which unit you want to go for. But I might have touched on it a little bit before. So all the units have been designed so all the components can be interchanged. So for whatever reason, something within our, within the unit doesn't, doesn't last as long as it should, or we can easily replace that and easily rectify that. We fully design and manufacture Everything in-house. So we've got an abundance of parts.

Ben Thorpe [00:34:56]:
So it just means the lifetime of that unit is significantly longer than a lot of our competitors' units out there because of that reason. Yeah, we offer a full warranty on the unit. So if it's anything hardware-related. Yeah, we're more than happy to fix and replace that if needed. But I think I mentioned it brief touch wood. It's. It's been fairly smooth sailing so far.

Liz Allan  [00:35:18]:
That's good. But that, that kind of speaks for itself. It speaks volumes, really, doesn't it? If you've. If that's what it is. It's not happening as in, you know, you're not getting returns, which is brilliant.

Ben Thorpe [00:35:30]:
Look for installers or CPOs; they just want to fit and forget, let's say. And for us, that's perfect. It's there if they need it. But the FW thought group, we're built on a group of companies that are very, very good at manufacturing products, and we've kept that ethos with ratio. We're good at manufacturing hardware, durability, long life, and that's kind of where we want to stick.

Liz Allan  [00:35:57]:
And you were also saying to me before we started recording, as well, about how the ratio, if an installer decides to use your own back office system, for business. We were talking about proactive maintenance and it giving them the opportunity for proactive maintenance. Was that right?

Ben Thorpe [00:36:16]:
Yeah. So, in the early days, it was a bit of a learning curve for us, but just being totally honest, we kind of left the connectivity bit down to our customers or our installers, let's say. And this was where we were having most of our calls. Look, the unit is not transmitting data, and the back office isn't working. So we've gone down the route now of putting our own SIM cards in our units, and that gives us the ability for proactive maintenance. So we can check on the units, make sure everything's working as it can. It's just there as an option if and when customers need it. So if one of our installers or CPOs.

Ben Thorpe [00:36:49]:
Hi Ben, one of the charge points is offline or is it? Can you have a quick look at it? We could, we can log in and just give it a quick once over, say, yo, everything's working fine. Must have just been a bit of a dip from the OCPP side of things, but no, it's been, it's been good and it's been taken on board from installers as well.

Liz Allan  [00:37:09]:
No, that's, that's good. And you also use load balancing.

Ben Thorpe [00:37:13]:
Dynamic charging, yes, we've got, we've got multiple options for that dynamic or static load balancing, and it's there mainly to protect the building supply. A lot of customers might want more charge points than the building could handle. But how often are every single one of them sockets going to be in use? So the dynamic load balancing tool will just split the power available across all the units, however many are plugged in. And that can take in consideration solar as well. So we mentioned it. If you've got excess solar, you can use that to charge your vehicle. Yeah, it just protects that building supply and that.

Liz Allan  [00:37:53]:
Yeah, that makes, that makes a difference if. Right, okay, just let me ask you this then. So if somebody was expecting a full charge by the end of their working day, for example, if it was a work, if it was workplace charging, and all of the charge points say like there's six charges or whatever, and all of the charge points were occupied and you had to load balance them. Is there some way of actually, because obviously that will reduce. I mean I know that, that cars will come to like 100, whatever percentage earlier than. Yeah, no, some would be earlier, some will be later depending on when they all parked up. They're not going to all park up at the same time, are they? But is there once that, once say this, so six cars there then's 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then that one car that's left will get all of the, you know, kind of.

Liz Allan  [00:38:51]:
They won't, you won't need to balance it then. But I was just, all I was thinking was, is there a way to kind of let that person know who's, who's got the least in, least juice in you'd call it, you know, to say.

Ben Thorpe [00:39:03]:
Yeah, there are ways through the back office or management systems that you could say set like priority bays, let's say. So this charge point is going to take full power all the time, whereas these other ones will load balance whatever's left. But it's like, like you said. Yeah, people are going to plug in, get to 100 more. So if someone's plugged in on 100, that's no longer pulling any power. So that power is available, then the other sockets.

Liz Allan  [00:39:28]:
Yeah, okay. No, that's, that's good. I like that. I like that kind of where, that intelligence behind the, behind the systems. Because people don't, or within the systems, people don't realise. Like I said, it's that education piece, I suppose.

Ben Thorpe [00:39:44]:
It's understanding electric vehicles. It's understanding electric vehicle charging. My byd seal. If I plug into a 22-kilowatt charge point, my car can't take 22 kilowatts; I'll only get 11.

Liz Allan  [00:39:56]:
Yeah, yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:39:57]:
But if I was looking at that, not understanding it, I'd be like, well, the charge is not working, I'm not getting 22. It's like the charge point's got 22 kilowatts on offer. The reason you can't take it is that your car can't take it. There's only a few that can. And if a 22-kilowatt car plugged into a 22-kilowatt charger, it would take the full whack.

Liz Allan  [00:40:18]:
Yeah.

Ben Thorpe [00:40:19]:
A lot of vehicles can't be used at the moment, but they're getting better. But it's. You've got that future-proof as well. And that's another reason why big is not always better. Because your car might not be able to take. Thank you.

Liz Allan  [00:40:29]:
No, exactly. And, actually, I suppose again that is the education of the drivers from. Right. The point where you buy the car to say from wherever you. Excuse me, from wherever you buy it from, it's kind of letting that person know that if you go to a 7-kilowatt store, you're fine. If you go to 11 or 22, then this is what you're going to potentially be getting. If you go to a rapid or an ultra rapid, this is the max, this is what you can get, you know, just so that they know because there's all of that misunderstanding and misinformation about what vehicles can actually take. So, so in some ways the, the public charging network does get it in the neck for things that the drivers don't know.

Ben Thorpe [00:41:16]:
You see it all the time. Someone, someone's plugged into a public network there, and they're at 82% that they're not going to get 200, 250 kilowatts of DC power, firstly because it's protecting the car's battery, but also they don't need it.

Liz Allan  [00:41:31]:
No, no. It's the charging curve as well. So they need to kind of be educated on that, on that charging, what a charging curve is in the first place. I mean, we've got an air source heat pump at home and I didn't think, I didn't really think about. We've got a heat curve here, you know, so there are just different things that we're finding out about through all of, all of these different processes and different products and things that we're now working with. We just need to make sure people, people get to find out a little bit more about it. So. And I know what you're going to want answered in this, I suppose, because we kind of talked about it.

Liz Allan  [00:42:12]:
But what is it that you love most about working in this sector? We've kind of talked a lot about various things but if you could kind of say one thing, what is the, kind of the best bit about it?

Ben Thorpe [00:42:28]:
It's building, building partnerships and building, building relationships with people that are all driven against the same thing. We're helping the world or the UK move to a greener future. We're putting infrastructure in place to make electric vehicle driving easier for the masses. But, but the main point is. Yeah, it's just that, that the friendships, the conversations you have with like minded people along the way that, that really stick with you. I suppose all of us in the industry have kind of made friends for life.

Liz Allan  [00:43:04]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think there are some really, really good people in this sector. There really is. You know, and just hearts are gold. So. And it's, and it's nice to, to have that. It really is.

Liz Allan  [00:43:18]:
So, I'm coming to the final couple of questions. Okay. If you could fix one thing about the current rollout of EV charging, what would that be? I didn't even give, I didn't give you this in advance.

Ben Thorpe [00:43:39]:
Did you give me that one before? I suppose it's, it's just upskilling and making sure people have got easy access to the, to the knowledge surrounding EV infrastructure so they, they know what they need before they go out and ask for something. Because a lot of the time people think they want X, but really they want Y. And it's making them understand what's the best application or the best infrastructure for their specific needs. Whether or not that's. We briefly touched on, didn't we? Whether or not that council authorities, it's on-street charging and it's destination charging. There's multiple different options.

Liz Allan  [00:44:25]:
And final question then. Okay, what would your message be to an organisation who were thinking about putting in workplace charging, for example? What would your message be if they kind of like, like you kind of just said about education in a way, if they didn't, they don't know what they don't know.

Ben Thorpe [00:44:50]:
What would you suggest? Reach out, let's have a chat. Now's the perfect time to do it because there are a lot of government grants available to bring the actual cost of implementing this infrastructure down. You don't want to be in a position in a year from now where there are no grants available. Thinking, oh, nearly dropped a bad word there. Oh, I need it. I should have done it a year ago. You've got all the facilities and the support in place now. It's worth talking about and thinking about.

Liz Allan  [00:45:27]:
Good place to stop.

Ben Thorpe [00:45:29]:
Thank you.

Liz Allan  [00:45:30]:
And it's been, it's been brilliant talking to you, and so lovely. All of the stuff, you know, that you're doing at ratio is just, it's just great. Honestly. Just keep, keep doing what you're doing because this is, this is the kind of thinking that we need, you know, and, and the kind of, the open-mindedness and, and willingness to actually make a really good, you know, to roll out really good destination charging. So just to say thank you very much for your time. It's been great.

Ben Thorpe [00:46:05]:
I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Liz Allan  [00:46:07]:
How was your first podcast then? I can say that the first podcast was.

Ben Thorpe [00:46:13]:
No, I've really enjoyed it, and first of many, let's say hopefully.

Liz Allan  [00:46:17]:
Absolutely. Yeah. Not. Yeah. So I will share all of your information and website details and stuff like that in the show notes, but just to say thanks, thanks to you and to everybody else. I'm going to say thanks for watching and listening. Please do. And I've got a frog in my throat now from talking.

Liz Allan  [00:46:39]:
Please do like, subscribe, share all of that wonderful stuff. Check out our LinkedIn page for electric Evolution and just, yeah, share with your friends, family, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. But just to say thanks for watching and listening. I'll see you next time. Bye.