Episode 156: Liz Allan and Tina Mould - Building a Greener Future: Inside Oxford’s EV and Sustainability Drive

Episode 156: Liz Allan and Tina Mould - Building a Greener Future: Inside Oxford’s EV and Sustainability Drive.
Liz Allan speaks to Tina Mould, Environmental Sustainability Team Lead at Oxford City Council, to explore how one of the UK’s leading councils is tackling climate action head-on. Oxford declared a climate emergency in 2019 and has been at the forefront of delivering ambitious sustainability and EV charging projects ever since. Tina shares her journey from chemistry research to local government leadership, the bold strategies Oxford is taking to build reliable EV infrastructure, and the importance of biodiversity and community engagement alongside electrification.

Liz and Tina discuss the challenges of scaling EV adoption, the role of councils in creating accessible charging networks, and the opportunities for innovation when public and private sectors collaborate. 

Tina Mould Bio:
Tina Mould is the Environmental Sustainability Team Lead at Oxford City Council, where she leads on strategy, delivery, and innovation to support the city’s transition to net zero. With a background that spans finance, HR, transport, and a PhD in organic chemistry from the University of Exeter, Tina brings a unique combination of technical expertise and practical leadership. She has been instrumental in developing Oxford’s approach to EV infrastructure, biodiversity projects, and climate resilience, making her a key figure in shaping sustainable urban futures. 

Quote of the Episode
“Declaring a climate emergency isn’t just words, it’s a responsibility to act, and to make sure our communities are part of that journey.” — Tina Mould

Tina Mould Links:
Website: https://www.oxford.gov.uk
Oxford Biodiversity Project: https://mycouncil.oxford.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?Id=2513
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristina-mould-es1

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:01]:

So on today's episode I have Tina Mold with me and she is the environmental sustainability business lead. That is such a long, long title, isn't it, for Oxford City Council? Tina, it's so lovely to see you here. Thank you for joining me.

Tina Mould [00:00:48]:

Thanks very much for having me, Liz. It's lovely to see you.

Liz Allan [00:00:52]:

So we were just talking about this and trying to work out how long we've known each other and when we met and, and you were brilliant because you, you remembered before I did that we met your, that the Oxford City Council evs for Everyone event in May. Well, I sussed this out, didn't I? May 2023.

Tina Mould [00:01:11]:

Yeah, that's right. We were running and it was a.

Liz Allan [00:01:14]:

The big event wasn't there.

Tina Mould [00:01:16]:

I think it was our first event post the Energy Super Hub Oxford launch. So the biggest high voltage connected charging hub we have is at Redbridge. And it was an event to be more inclusive and try to get residents to come down and learn a little bit about EV charging. So looking at all the options, renting vehicles, leasing vehicles, seeing what's available and also seeing if people wanted to register more interest for where they may want charging infrastructure, for example. So that was one of my favourite events, actually. I remember it really fondly and I love it. I think all of our team really love engaging with residents because we get so much out of it. So it's great to run events like that.

Liz Allan [00:01:55]:

And you had a really, really good turnout for it as well. And lots of kinds of test drives going on and all sorts of stuff happening, which was. It really was. I mean, at that point we weren't, we didn't even have an ev. So I was embarrassed. No, actually, do you know what, I'm not going to say I was embarrassed. I just kept rocking up in my petrol car, but didn't park anywhere near the kind of EV charging. But it was literally just probably about, God, six, six weeks before we got it, before we got ours.

Liz Allan [00:02:25]:

But the event itself was so good. There were lots of people turning up and looking at the evs, weren't there? And like I say, going out for, for test drives and stuff. And I just remember it just being a beautiful day. And the, and the super. The super hub is very impressive because you've got. You've got three EV charging companies there, haven't you? But kind of like the big man. The main canopy is a fast Ned kind of canopy and that really, really, really stands out, doesn't it?

Tina Mould [00:02:55]:

It does. I love that canopy and often at night, you know, I kind of see it as well and I just think it needs to cover disco balls hanging from. Maybe I'm a bit sad having worked in that sector, but it is, it is a. It is a really good canopy and it. Yeah, it makes it stand out, does that.

Liz Allan [00:03:11]:

If we did. If, if we talked to Tom from Fastned, then do you think we've got some disco balls and then we've got all the council officers kind of doing some kind of 1970s kind of, you know, dancing underneath it. Or we could even get Tom there. That'd be. I think that'd be interesting, don't you?

Tina Mould [00:03:28]:

They might charge us for icing them, though, for flocking them. Oh, my God.

Liz Allan [00:03:35]:

Oh, that. Yeah. And then we'll just have to get you and McTurkin from charge Saint to just take. Get. Tell us all off.

Tina Mould [00:03:43]:

So there's white lights for flashable, different led, different colored LED ones and we'll be fine.

Liz Allan [00:03:50]:

Oh, it would. That'd be. That'd be brilliant. So. And I actually went to the. The Hub last year when I was driving for Women in Women Drive Electric on the Green Green Fleet EV Rally. So. So, yeah, again, there was all sorts of stuff going on, wasn't there? And it was, it was a.

Liz Allan [00:04:09]:

It's just one of those sites where it just. It stands out. I don't think I've actually been to a site like that other than, you know, and I've been to quite a few charging hubs now, but I've not really been to any sites that. That was. They're similar. You might be able to tell me otherwise that there might be some other ones.

Tina Mould [00:04:30]:

Well, I'm not going to, am I? Because obviously it's safe. I'm very proud of it.

Liz Allan [00:04:34]:

Yeah, I'm shutting up now. Stop it. Oh, my goodness. So let's talk about you, though. Let's. Let's talk about you because my jaw dropped when I saw what you started off doing in your career. You know, kind of you. Well, it was yours.

Liz Allan [00:04:53]:

On the university side. Can I just, can I just say it? Because I've just, I'm just so. I'm so overwhelmed by it all. Tina Got a PhD in organic chemistry at the University of Exeter and it just happens that my son is currently at Exeter University. And how, how did you get into that and how did you, how did you move from getting your Ph.D. into, into kind of what you're doing now with the council?

Tina Mould [00:05:26]:

It's quite an interesting background that I've got. I think when I went to university, to be honest, I don't think I absolutely 100% knew what I wanted to do and I was quite good at chemistry and my dad had been a good chemist. So I went to Bristol first to study chemistry, then I had a year out and I got back and I was sort of running an hour and I thought, you know, I really fancy doing a PhD and when I went to Exeter, my professor, who was, you know, where you go to do your PhD and you look at what kind of PhD you want, might want to do, he was working with a lot of pharmaceutical companies and they were very much related to, you know, human improvements and helping people. So I ended up doing a PhD over three years and then towards the end of my PhD I was thinking, do I want to stay in this field or do I want to do something actually a bit more practical and hands on. And having spent a while sort of working in a research environment, I came to the conclusion that actually something operational and sort of more practical was probably actually more mean. So then I looked for a job and I ended up getting a job actually in a drinks company in Bristol on logistics and operations. A lot of that was really about sort of efficiency and improvement and sort of. Yeah, and learning around things, learning around that.

Tina Mould [00:06:40]:

There were elements of it where I was really working very much in a technical field. So looking at imported wine and the sort of technical elements of it to then put it into boxes or bottles to be transported out and also just things like how to be efficient and effective about running a warehouse, for example, and things like that. So it was a. We made cider as well, all different bits and pieces. So it was a really good starting point. And then I guess by that age I was, you know, getting towards my sort of early 30s. So I then had children and then I didn't actually work for a little while and when I decided I wanted to come back to work, I thought, what am I going to do? I've got children, I'm still quite young and thought, well, I really had always been interested in horticulture, which is another thing my mum really enjoyed. So I went to college and did a horticultural qualification.

Liz Allan [00:07:24]:

Oh, wow.

Tina Mould [00:07:25]:

Gosh. I worked for myself, but then ended up working, coming to local authority and I joined Oxford city council in 2015, originally in the parks department, so managing some of the open spaces, trees, countryside, landscape, different elements of it at different times. And I did that for around three years and then I was a maternity leader covering the sustainability team. So I moved over into that and that's when I got involved in the Energy Super Oxford project and became project manager for that. And then I've moved through into managing the EV team, electric vehicle team, and now I lead the sustainability team. So, yeah, it's been a bit of a journey, I would say. My science background is very good for the technical side of what we're doing, but it's also been a steep learning curve. But what I would say to anybody else who's interested in getting involved in this is that you can do it.

Tina Mould [00:08:16]:

And I've done it with no knowledge. When I first started on projects, I often had very little or no knowledge of those sectors. But you, you know, you can learn on the job, I think, and that shouldn't be forgotten.

Liz Allan [00:08:29]:

But it's those, it's those transferable, transferable skills, isn't it? You know, because even though you kind of. You've done, you know, you. You've done different things. It's even at university, those transferable skills you built there, didn't you, through your degree and through your PhD, and just happened, you know, you got into somewhere that you could build on those, on those skills. And the fact that where you've come, you know, come from to where you are now, it just feels to me like those. You, you know, you've utilized those skills to the best, you know, to the best you could do, haven't you?

Tina Mould [00:09:13]:

Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully, yeah. No, I think definitely using the technical information, definitely report writing. There's quite a lot of report writing, obviously working Local authority goes on. So all those elements of having produced a thesis and condensed reports and other bits and pieces are probably definitely things that I've learned. And that analysis of data, some of the other skills you need to work on the way are more about working with people, I think the collaboration element and other elements of that. So.

Liz Allan [00:09:38]:

Yeah, but are there any others? Is there anything that surprised you about that kind of crossover between academia and the work that you're doing now?

Tina Mould [00:09:58]:

Well, it's a very different world, I would say. So I think data and information is one thing, presenting it in a way to other members in the council in a way that is easy enough for them to understand, because some of the issues and challenges we face can be quite technically complex. And trying to distill that into information, I think that can be absorbed and understood by others, is one element. There's a lot of huge amount of engagement and I'd say processes, but, you know, thinking about best value for public money, so making sure that it's spent in the appropriate fashion, that takes a lot of work and effort and energy as well, so that, you know, if you're thinking about major change consultations and all those elements. So that's not something I definitely. That's something I definitely didn't learn, or while I was still in my earlier formal life. I don't think that's something, you know, you learn maybe more in the public sector than in other jobs where you may have done partnership or definitely resident engagement work. I think so, yeah.

Tina Mould [00:11:03]:

They're definitely very distinct, different roles or. I think, or. But yeah, there's definitely skills you can bring along.

Liz Allan [00:11:10]:

Yeah, yeah. But like I said, it's bolting, Bolting what you've already got and then. And then new things. But. So I was going to say that Oxford declared a climate emergency back in 2019, and you've been seen as a council that is kind of pushing, and I'd say leading the way and pushing forward with kind of across a number of areas. But what I was going to ask you, what kind of momentum has that climate emergency? Because we're talking kind of six and a half years now, aren't we? What momentum has that kind of built since? And how is that? And I know it'll have changed a lot of things, but how has your work changed since then?

Tina Mould [00:12:04]:

I think it's changed in a lot of different ways. I think even before 2019, we had a strong background in carbon reduction and electric vehicle infrastructure, particularly. We had a very strong team and were very knowledgeable, doing a lot of work in that area. I think the climate emergency was a critical element of widening that kind of knowledge in relation to residents. So really engaging with residents and bringing them in and being part of the process to help determine our future. So it was at the Climate Emergency or Climate assembly, when the council asked residents whether they thought we should be trying to push ahead of the government's 2050 target to set a net zero target for Oxford as a city. So I think it's things like that, that really sort of stepped up the resident engagement involvement in that and that then led to things like the formation of the Zero Carbon Oxford Partnership. So that's pulling together.

Tina Mould [00:13:15]:

At the time there were around 21 major organisations in Oxford. And when I say major, I mean with significant climate influence. So it doesn't mean they have to be the largest employers, for example, but they're ones that have significant carbon influence and collectively all work together under a mandate to support work streams where we can collaborate together to actually deliver more. And that work's been, you know, that started in 2021 with an action plan, a pathway, and we've been working along that and now that's just recently expanded to be Oxfordshire wide, so bringing on new partners and looking at this from an Oxfordshire perspective, other things I think that definitely getting funding from some government streams. So looking, as I previously talked about energy superb Oxford at the other time, which was a demonstrator, key demonstrator project valued about 40 million pounds. Not all that funding obviously came from the government, but some did. And then there was local energy Oxfordshire as well. And then we've also been at times successful with, you know, bidding for public sector decarbonisation funding and all the other grant funding that we can do.

Tina Mould [00:14:25]:

I'm probably going on a bit, but I think some of the key things that have come out of it as well is sort of the wider council supporting things like electric vehicle infrastructure strategy and then an implementation plan, which I don't think before, certainly Energy Superv Oxford, which was about the time created, by the time of the Climate assembly, we. We probably would. We may not have that. So there's also key pieces of strategic work and actions that have followed that have, yeah, been really supported, I think, by. By that initial bit of work. I hope that answers your question.

Liz Allan [00:15:01]:

It has, absolutely. One thing you said to me before we started recording was you also to me, it's.

Tina Mould [00:15:06]:

It.

Liz Allan [00:15:07]:

You were kind of. I'm going to pray to your words that you also had the right team in place because you've got some really good kind of people, really good at writing bids and things like that. And actually that's really important, isn't it, to have those people who can do those jobs in order to get what you need back from your supply chain.

Tina Mould [00:15:28]:

Yeah, we've got. I mean, I've got a brilliant team, an amazing team. Everybody, you know, everybody who works in our team is wanting to make a difference. I guess that's part of the reason many of us work for a local authority. I think. And so, yeah, I mean everything that I'm talking about today is delivered on behalf of the other people that work in my team and there's many of those that do a phenomenal job. So, yeah, we are very fortunate and it should be recognised that we probably also have a reasonably sized team compared with many other local authorities. We do, we've been very fortunate in doing that and I guess probably setting.

Tina Mould [00:16:01]:

Coming out with the climate emergency Climate assembly and has supported that would enable us to retain that as well, given where we are currently with local government budgets etc as well.

Liz Allan [00:16:13]:

So I wrote down what you'd said to me before, before we started recording and you said some of the. These are, I think these are only a few things that you're involved with and, or the council, obviously air quality, biodiversity, trees. Trees, even trees and climate and sustainability. I mean there's, there's a whole, that's a whole plethora of, of areas that you, I mean you personally have been involved in. But also, like I say that the, the council, to me, you know, that's, that's a flipping lot and I'm sure there must be lots of local authorities who probably are. I've kind of dipped their toe into this. But not as in depth as yourselves.

Tina Mould [00:17:01]:

Yeah, no, the team that I currently manage covers a huge area. So you kind of described the environmental quality and planning perspective. So yeah, all of those bits and pieces. So that means any planning permissions that go in relation to them, but also the kind of strategic setting of those and for example, things like biodiversity net gain, biodiversity net strategies. Pedro, who works in my team. So we've just recently got two new ecologists in. So looking at that lot of work and then we've got an air quality action plan and we have to make annual reports to defray on our air quality. And Pedro, who's been our team for ages, is working really hard on our next air quality action plan.

Tina Mould [00:17:44]:

So thinking about where we want to be in terms of our nitrous oxide and our particle emissions now and where we want to be in five years' time. And last year we did a lot of work on expanding the smoke control area around Oxford to cover all of Oxford to try, you know, all of these things are based on improving the health and well being for people across Oxford. It takes a lot of sort of consultation, engagement and then tell me if I go on too much. But in the other elements of the team, we do things like pay utility bills on a day to day basis. So for all of the council's properties, which is a considerable amount of work just in itself. We have members of the team who are engaging with other groups. We have Emily for example, who leads on all about energy efficiency work. So any grants that come in from the government, trying to connect residents, working with landlords and tenants, trying to support them with, you know, field property grants, all the other bits and pieces.

Tina Mould [00:18:43]:

We have a team leading our electric vehicle infrastructure. So looking at the local electric vehicle infrastructure fund, thinking about the cross pavement channel processes, I previously worked a lot on Gulo led by Vicky, but we've got Sue, Nilesh and Krista working in that team as well, doing a lot of work in relation to that. Sam currently leads the Zero Carbon Oxfordshire partnership, so she is the strategic manager and she's got Pedra working with her. We're also doing a lot of work in the local area energy planning area. So the county is leading this project. This is a really fundamental bit of work that is going to be really critical for unlocking energy for all of our decarbonisation plans, but also for economic growth and around Oxford that's really trying to understand what the pathways are for us to achieve net zero and really starting to plan it out on a county wide basis, but on a district basis and thinking about it almost down to our sort of primary and secondary substation level. And that's a significant project that we're working on at the moment and that's working a lot also with our distribution network operator. So SSEN for ourselves, but also things like the energy systems operator or national energy systems operator now is no.

Tina Mould [00:20:07]:

So there's lots of bits and pieces of work and Alice has done a load of work on that and been working a lot on that. And another major project we've got going on is a district heat network. So we are a major bit of work at the moment on a feasibility project for a district heat network, which Rose and Ruth who work in my team are working on, really looking at the opportunity to create a significant, or at least one, maybe two significant district heat networks in Oxford. Maybe probably one in the city centre, maybe one in Headington, then possibly potential for one in Cowley as well. And the real reason that we're focusing so much time and attention on that is because it could build emissions in Oxford around 60% of all emissions. So road transport emissions are around 20, just over 20%. But building emissions are the largest contributor to emissions. And if we can, if we can have, yeah, if we can take forward a district heat network project, it could have an impact of reducing about 10% of all building submissions in Oxford.

Tina Mould [00:21:21]:

So it's a significantly important project, not just from emissions perspective, but from a citywide perspective.

Liz Allan [00:21:28]:

Can you. Can you just do me a favour and just explain now? Because I think there might be people listening and watching who might not know what a district heat network is now. I. I do. I've spoken to somebody, I've interviewed somebody before, but it depends whether people have actually caught that episode. But do you want to just explain what a district heat network is?

Tina Mould [00:21:54]:

Yeah, more than happy to, because I think a little while ago I didn't really know either. So, basically the idea of a district heat network is that you take waste heat from waste sources or waste heat heat sources, and this could be things like sewage, for example, that tends to be hotter. It can be water, so it can potentially come out of rivers, it can come from air, or it can come from heat created from other sort of cooling methodologies that are creating heat by cooling or from things like data centers, which creates quite a lot of heat. So you're taking waste heat, you use that waste heat to heat up hot water or heat water too. To a certain temperature. And they can be. I don't want to complicate things, but there can be different types of heat networks that can be heated to different levels of temperature. And you use that water, you put that water into underground pipes and you transmit that, or a bit like replacing the gas network, it goes around an area and then can go into buildings via a heat exchanger plate.

Tina Mould [00:22:58]:

So a relatively small, small device that then transmits that heat, although that hot water into your heating system in your building. And some of the significant benefits of potentially the district heat network are that they don't require a lot of, especially if the water comes in at a very similar temperature, or you can create a very similar temperature to your existing boiler and the way that it's working. So most properties are being heated by gas boilers at the moment. You are creating a very similar environment to what you would have done before, so it hopefully will not involve you retrofitting or changing too many other things on the other side of your building. So what we call the secondary works, which are those changes on the other side of your building, are limited and reduced to what they would be for some other sort of decarbonisation mechanisms, such as MET or eclipse, for example. So for a lot of heritage historic buildings that may be very difficult to retrofit with air source heat pumps and other electrified electrification, what's the word? I'm trying, you know what I'm trying to say, other forms of decarbonized electrified heat. This is, this is, this is a very good option or could be a very good option and that's why we're investigating it with such. Yeah.

Tina Mould [00:24:11]:

With such vigour.

Liz Allan [00:24:13]:

So am I right? Because the thing I was thinking of and yours that you're kind of, what you're looking at is wider than what I was thinking it was to be honest. Which is really interesting.

Tina Mould [00:24:26]:

Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:24:26]:

And I was, I was, I understood a district heat network also could bring in ground source heat pumps. But, bringing in, you would still have. So like you said about the, the, the kind of, the gas network, you'd have one area that was, that was, that had a borehole dug and then, but then you. So with the ground source heat pump specifically and then it would actually be kind of filtered across to, across to kind of consumers and not just, not kind of just on the business side. Is that something as well that you can kind of bring into that?

Tina Mould [00:25:05]:

Yeah, I think you know your heat could come from ground sources. It just depends on your environment. So it's a bit like generating solar or wind or anything. You're looking for the best, most cost effective methodologies of extracting enough heat and for a city centre network that's a significant amount of heat. But on a smaller scale it can just be what is the most useful methodology of providing heat. So that could be a ground source heat pump array or it could be, or it could be a big water source heat pump on a river or it could be some large massive air source heat pump on a more industrial site or industrial scale somewhere. Or it may be that there's a data center somewhere that you can connect into and extract the heat from if that provides sufficient heat. Or it may be multiples, it may be that you need multiples of all those things depending on the size of the network and the amount of heat you can obtain from them.

Tina Mould [00:26:06]:

But it's, and that's all part of the kind of work that. Yeah, that's being done as part of this.

Liz Allan [00:26:15]:

And that's massive. Yeah, that is, that is massive, isn't it? I mean even just on the fact that you've just brought in data centers into, into the conversation is, is great because I was talking to somebody recently and you know we will talk about AI. So I went to a session in reading Local to me and it was like a tech hub and they would talk about AI and increasing the Number of data centers. But obviously as you increase the number of data centers, that also means that, you know, kind of all that residual energy like you're, you're kind of saying, and I was kind of asking somebody and saying, you know, but how do you extract that? Because, you know, it's basically it's, it's using lots more energy as a data center for something like that, isn't it? But how do you take that? Because it's obvious it's kicking out loads of heat. So what you're talking about is taking that heat and utilizing it efficiently, which is brilliant. Just being out, you know, being able to say you can do that. That is really, really innovative stuff, isn't it really?

Tina Mould [00:27:27]:

Yeah, it is. It's all really good stuff. I should say that we're not the ones carrying out the. So it's, it's not the city council, any of the partners that we're working with directly. We formed a partnership with universities, the NHS and county council. So looking at it collectively. So we're actually looking at an opportunity that a heat network developer has come to us with. So they're the ones really looking at all of these different, different heat supply points and we're looking at it more from an off taker stakeholder perspective and working out whether this is the right solution for Oxford, I think, and what it is.

Tina Mould [00:28:02]:

And yeah, so yeah, it's a really exciting, interesting project. We're learning loads all the time. And the government currently is in the process of producing more legislation in relation to heat networks and heat zoning. So actually looking at creating a zone in an environment, in an urban environment, almost like ring fencing an area and saying, looking at who might offtake heat so mainly anchor larger organizations and then seeing how much the proposition of that heat would be and it's not a lot of heat mapping in relation to these and then working out whether there's a commercial proposition that could provide a solution. And the government. Yeah, the government's doing a lot of work in relation to the legislation, in relation to this and the sort of policy that's going to come along with it, which is really positive good stuff.

Liz Allan [00:29:01]:

It's really nice. Do you know, in a way, and I know people criticise government and stuff like that, but in a way the fact that they are, it's not perfect across, you know, all areas but they are starting to kind of move these things forwards, you know and, and, and some things originally, you know, they, me and my husband were talking about anything that's got the word tax in it, people don't like, do they? So it kind of makes people a bit unhappy. But some of this stuff, the decarbonization side, it's really, it's, it's so, so important and if you're getting that support, support from government in order to be able to do this for your local economy, it's just really beneficial, isn't it?

Tina Mould [00:29:44]:

Yeah, no, it's definitely, I think, you know, it's an all chicken and egg situation. You need enough heat offtake to make it a commercially viable proposition and somehow you need to go through a methodology and process of working out what that's going to be. And obviously the government's trying really hard to do that because it understands that following the European model, this could have a significant benefit on our ability to achieve net zero by 2050. And you know, it wants District Heat Networks to provide around 20% of all decarbonized heat by 2050 through district heat Network. So it's, you know, it's putting some funding in through the green heat network funding sector as well to support this. So. And the heat network developer we've been working with has, you know, been, has currently got a grant of around £20 million or just over £20 million to support this work as well, so. Which is.

Tina Mould [00:30:35]:

Yeah, cool. Yeah, exciting.

Liz Allan [00:30:39]:

Yeah, absolutely. So just, just going back to your. So when we were talking about the energy super hub in Oxford. Yeah. You have been, like you said, you've been rolling out EV charging for quite a long time now, haven't you? Have there been any? Well, can you talk about the trickier challenges with charging that you've kind of come across when you've been rolling it out? You don't need to do any finger pointing or anything, but just generically I.

Tina Mould [00:31:11]:

I think it's often challenging. Electricity connections are challenging. Even with energy superb Oxford and a private wire connection that was still, I think, quite challenging for everybody to understand and also is governed under different regulations, which meant getting energy contracts made that more complicated. I think initially when we were doing it. When we started, we had a government grant to do sort of on street charging, probably starting around 2015, 16, actually starting to roll out on street charges. They are and have been quite hard on that project. And I think very early on a lot of the initial charge point operators either made some of them look like they went bust but were taken over by others. And so we have some legacy of, you know, charges that have moved over onto different ownership, etc.

Tina Mould [00:32:14]:

Etc. I think learning about contracting what you need to include in contracts. The government I think is providing a lot more information in relation to these now and obviously the local electric vehicle infrastructure program has a lot of heavy involvement from the government.

Liz Allan [00:32:33]:

I wouldn't have to. Aren't they really?

Tina Mould [00:32:35]:

But yes, in my opinion. But yeah, so. And one of the things we have tried to focus on is some of the requirements to hope that residents have the best, as good experience as they can. So learning as we've gone on. I'm not saying we've been perfect from the word go, but learning as we've gone on. So trying to ensure that you can use a credit card payment and you don't always have to have an app and even on the 7 kilowatt Chargers or the AC kind of chargers, which I don't even think is mandated by the government now managing our contracts as tightly as we can, which is often having weekly or other weekly meetings with ChargePoint operators and trying to make sure we have access to the right data so we can understand actually how performance is monitored and can check in on it. Yeah, some of those things. But yeah, there's definitely still obstacles around planning permission, electricity connections and then just the complexity of contracting, I think with charge point operators, which is, I mean, look at Levi.

Tina Mould [00:33:43]:

I mean it's taken us, or taken the county and the different districts on that a significant amount of time just to get to a point where we maybe looking to award a contract.

Liz Allan [00:33:54]:

So it's just, it. These things do take a heck of a long time, like you say, don't they? And, I always say this when people start these things. Even with Levi, people did, you know, councils didn't. They don't know what they don't know. You've not rolled it. I mean you, like I say, you've been, you've been leading the way for ages, but there's a lot of councils where it was really brand new to them, you know, and, and then you're contracting with a private organization, aren't you? But also some of them. Sometimes you're contracting like you said about, you know, some of them, some of them have either been taken over or whatever.

Tina Mould [00:34:32]:

Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:34:33]:

So you've got to make sure that you're contracting with an organization that can, that you know is going to be around in the future, don't you? Or kind of, because we're talking. I'm assuming this is the same with Oxford, that a lot of local authorities are contracting with 15 year contracts. That's a long time to have faith in one organisation or two. Or three isn't it.

Tina Mould [00:35:01]:

And I don't think we've ever had contracts previously either where we've had the ability. Normally a contract's been for. You must deliver this. Whereas on a 15 year contract you're starting with some grant funding to deliver something, but actually you're wanting them to go above and beyond that further on and deliver more because over 15 years you'll need. I mean we know from our EV strategy that we should be nearing having a maximum amount of EV charges to support all of Oxford. With all the people who require on street charging equivalent with charges by 15 years time, by 20, we should have a full complement. So you can imagine that. Yeah, you're not just expecting what you're going to get from.

Tina Mould [00:35:42]:

For your. I think the county got something like 3.6 million. So then that's being split across all the districts. So that won't be enough to cover all of the charges that are required. So we're going to be relying on the commerciality and the chargement operator to deliver more and structuring contracts to enable you to do that is interesting. Not just we want you specifically to do that. You need to work with us and carry on delivering after that first bit of grant funding and we work through how we get to that, what we need to get to. So.

Liz Allan [00:36:09]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. And then there's the whole legacy, legacy charges and, you know, things move on. We don't know what's going to be happening in the next 15 years, do we? So I suppose you've got to get them to commit, commit to that. I mean, I suppose one question would be how are. How are you, as a. As a council finding the overall customer experience on the charging side? You know, what is the feedback from the residents and the visitors? Because you get a heck of a lot of visitors in Oxford, don't you, as well?

Tina Mould [00:36:45]:

Yeah, I think if I'm totally honest, we probably have not been quite as. I think we're in. Yeah, we're in a sort of transition period. So kind of understand the good or the feedback that we get from things like Energy superhub Oxford and some of the other charging sites that are going to remain with us. Some of the other sites we've currently constantly been extending contracts over very short spaces of time because they're going to move under a different charge point operator when Levi the. So the on street ones, for example, are going to go under a new charge point operator. So all the time you've kind of finished your old contract and you're trying to extend the contract on a very short time scale because you are never quite sure when the tender is going to be, you know, when you're going to finish the conclusion. So some of those things have been made.

Tina Mould [00:37:37]:

Have probably presented us with not less than ideal current circumstances. What I would say is that we still try to do our best to ensure that we can provide as good a level of provision as we can and that the charge points we have are operating and in good condition. You know, things have happened like one's been taken out by a driver, for example, and then insurance wise. Yeah, and then you've got to go through the whole insurance remit, for example, somebody drives into it and then it's busted. And then you've got to go through the whole insurance program, we're still responsible for that charger. And then you've got to think about at what point do you incur the extra £12,000 or, you know, £10,000 to replace it and before you've probably got insurance funding and elements like that. So there's lots of. There's circumstances like that that it just.

Tina Mould [00:38:31]:

Yeah, sometimes it just takes a bit of time for us to work our way through.

Liz Allan [00:38:35]:

I bet a place has been going on there. Yeah. Goodness me.

Tina Mould [00:38:43]:

Well, I was.

Liz Allan [00:38:44]:

I was gonna. So I suppose how. Another question would be, you know, kind of how are the local communities kind of getting involved? Not necessarily in. On the charging side, but if we kind of. Maybe if we just look at net zero and biodiversity and that kind of thing. Are you finding it? I suppose the question is, are you finding that more of the residents and the communities around Oxford are recognising what you were trying to achieve and they're wanting to get involved.

Tina Mould [00:39:19]:

I think there's a lot of our work and the county has been brilliant at this. A lot of engagement work is being led through the County Council. Now, on a climate perspective, there's a Climate Action Oxfordshire website and there's. Yeah, and they've got a very good engagement officer, the county as well. And it's a post that we're looking to bring back to the city as well. So there's kind of a lot of work going on through community action groups as well. So working with low. Well, and also working with people like Low Carbon Harvard, for example.

Tina Mould [00:39:57]:

So I think there's a lot of work on the ground. We're also currently putting in a bid to the government through the Zero Carbon Oxfordshire Partnership, looking at supporting communities with climate action, particularly for communities that probably have not had any experience of it previously. So the more some of the Areas that don't have community action groups or don't currently have a sort of an association that knows maybe very much or has any kind of remit or responsibility or has even been involved at all in climate action. So trying to bid for some funding so that we can start to sow some of the seeds in relation to those. But yeah, and other than that, it's really events, I think often it's the events that we run, which is why I think EVs for everyone and some of the other events that we run have been so successful. I mean, in some of the other ways. I mean, one of my team or Lucy has worked in our team recently doing an air source heat pump project and she's, you know, her key part of her role was engagement. So going around to residents and asking them and working with them to try and work through with them whether they want to get an air source heat pump installed or not.

Tina Mould [00:41:09]:

So there's, there's bits and pieces we do, but sometimes it relates to resources and funding and we, yeah, we're just trying to work through the best methodologies to deliver that, I think.

Liz Allan [00:41:19]:

But that's good. I mean, that's good. Even, just, even just kind of like the, you know, talk as you just did then, about the air source heat pump project, you know, to me the grant is still there. Seven and a half thousand pounds, isn't it, for an air source heat pump. And I know that they're still quite expensive, but actually just to say that that is available in the first place, it's brilliant. I mean that, you know, that's what we took, we took up. So that's why we got it. Well, well, we've got an air source heat pump because our boiler packed in about, you know, kind of about two weeks after I interviewed the, one of the, the CEO of an air source heat pump company and I kind of went, that's what you could help you help us, could you? So, so, you know, I know how, but I know how beneficial though that they are.

Liz Allan [00:42:11]:

So they. You're doing so many brilliant projects. Seriously, it's fantastic.

Tina Mould [00:42:17]:

Thank you. Yeah, no, I mean that kind of work's currently sort of stopped or coming to a bit of an end. So yeah, again, we need to work through what we do with that going forward. But yeah, no, there's been some amazing things. There are lots of different things we've worked on really. We've been looking at carbon offsetting as well, so looking at working out whether we could offer something in relation to sort of Carbon credits in Oxford. So for local businesses who may want to provide funding to another organisation, maybe they can't achieve everything they want to under net zero to meet their net zero target, but they have some funding, but for whatever practical reasons they can't deliver, the projects may have another organisation that doesn't have the funding and wouldn't ever be able, or in the next 10 years wouldn't be able to carry out net zero targets or net zero decarbonisation projects. And so the ability to transfer funding from one organisation to another, and initially we were wondering whether we could do that under a carbon credits mechanism, but came to the conclusion we can't do that.

Tina Mould [00:43:22]:

So there was a project also looking at whether we could set up a sort of voluntary carbon carbon scheme. And we. Again, we've. We've done quite a lot of. There was quite a lot of background work done on that by Ruth and Joel and a few other people working the team. We kind of paused that for a bit now. So we've got quite a lot of information then we need to see maybe about how we think about maybe relaunching that. So there's.

Tina Mould [00:43:42]:

Yeah, there's loads of different projects and work we do, all in different kinds of areas. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:43:49]:

So. Okay, so just kind of. I could talk to you. That's so many. I mean, there's more questions on my little list here, but, you know, with me and you've got a limit. I know you've got limited time, so I'm going to ask you. I'm going to ask you one, maybe two final questions, actually. Two do you know.

Liz Allan [00:44:08]:

So looking back over your. The work that you've been doing since you've been working with Oxford, what are you most proud of? There must be lots of it.

Tina Mould [00:44:22]:

Good question. I was. I was very proud of the energy superb Oxford and delivering that project, because of that. Did you know, that was a really new, innovative project. It took a lot of time and commitment and a lot of energy and it really, I think, helped the council as well change and think about electric vehicles in a different way. The other things, I'm. I'm really proud of the people in our team. I'm really proud of that sort of thing.

Tina Mould [00:44:56]:

Some of the people, particularly that. Well, all of my team, because they do an immensely fantastic, great job in sometimes quite challenging circumstances. I mean, we have many competing priorities in the council and we have. And we, you know, working constantly with internal, external stakeholders, just trying to bring everybody together to deliver things and asking people to work with us collaboratively to go on and deliver Things and we've had, you know, some junior people or junior compare with me in terms of age joining our team and initially again, who didn't know very much about electric vehicle infrastructure and they're still to this day working in, well, it's been about three years now they're working in our team and I take a lot of pleasure out of, you know, just seeing them coming on and developing and there's some, you know, and I can think of lots of people in the team as well who as I've got to know from the sustainability lead. I've been doing that for about 18 months now. Just how, you know, can see some great other people coming through and how you can see how they can move further, further up the, you know, up the hierarchy, for example in the council, go on to other roles and, and just, you know, what we're collectively all delivering. So it's a. Yeah, it's definitely very much a team.

Tina Mould [00:46:10]:

Yeah, it's very much about the team. I think that's good.

Liz Allan [00:46:14]:

And listen, just one final question then. So if we're talking about others, if there are other local authorities that are listening or watching, listening to or watching this podcast and they're just starting out with their EV charging or their sustainability or their Net zero journey, you know, because sometimes it takes a while, doesn't it? Like, you know, you're doing lots of stuff but maybe they're just starting up. What advice would you give them?

Tina Mould [00:46:48]:

Keep going, Be resilient. I think partnership and external support is really valuable. Finding like minded people is often the thing that really helps me rebalance, re. Motivate myself. It's really good to go and have a chat with somebody who's working in the same area as you or even if they're not, who's full of inspiration, vigour or has done something. So learning from other people, I think, and you use that to sort of keep, keep your focus and your ambition going but also make it, I guess, realistic and sensible as well. Yeah, and just. Yeah.

Tina Mould [00:47:33]:

Collaboration and working with people is obviously critical to success. So none of us can deliver anything on our own. And that's, that's the important, I think and, and also health and well being, you know, that I think sometimes we undervalue that message in terms of our engagement with residents there. You know, I think most of them get totally more motivated by understanding the impacts that some of these things have, will have on them and will have on for subsequent generations. And we tend to talk a lot in technical language, so. But really it's about improving the health and well being for residents. So, Yeah, I don't know if I really answered your question.

Liz Allan [00:48:08]:

Well, absolutely. Like I said, this is your. This is your advice. You know, this, as far as I'm concerned, that's, you know, you've kind of said to keep going and. Yeah. And learning and actually, do you know what I would say to any local authorities? Keep an eye on what Oxford City Council are doing, you know, because you are leading the way with a lot, with so many things. You get called on for, you know, different events and things, don't you, to kind of talk as kind of like a knowledgeable speaker. And I think that's credit to you and to the team in Oxford, you know, and also, you know, I know the County Council kind of got a lot of involvement in various things as well, like you said.

Liz Allan [00:48:58]:

So to me, this is. It's a massive credit to you and the team. So. So, yeah, check out Oxford City Council. Have a look at what Tina's been doing and Tina and the team have been doing. And I will share the council links on the. On the show notes and everything.

Tina Mould [00:49:16]:

Great, thanks, Liz.

Liz Allan [00:49:18]:

It's been.

Tina Mould [00:49:19]:

Yeah, it's been lovely talking to you.

Liz Allan [00:49:21]:

Oh, and I know, exactly. Goodness me. But so on. On that note, I'm just going to say thank you. Just you are doing some wonderful things, you know, and. And you're kind of lighting the way. You and the council are lighting the way for other councils and. And just the.

Liz Allan [00:49:41]:

And the nicest person as well. So. So I. I just really, really appreciate your time, Tina.

Tina Mould [00:49:47]:

Oh, thanks, Liz, that's lovely. Thank you. And, like, likewise for you as well. Thank you.

Liz Allan [00:49:52]:

I'm getting the usual ending for everybody watching and listening. Please, like, subscribe, share, do all of those wonderful things. Check out our LinkedIn page for electric Evolution and just share with people. And if you're a council that's watching, please share with other councils or other council team members that might be interested because, you know, you're all on the journey together when it comes down to it. But for everybody else, I'm just going to say now, thank you for watching and listening. I'll see you next time. Bye.