Episode 158: Liz Allan and Steve Robinson - Driving Talent for Net Zero: Recruitment’s Role in the EV Transition

Episode 158: Liz Allan and Steve Robinson - Driving Talent for Net Zero: Recruitment’s Role in the EV Transition.

Liz Allan speaks to Steve Robinson, Director of EV and Future Mobility at Hyperion Search. Steve shares his remarkable journey from early beginnings in retail and oil & gas recruitment to becoming a leader in clean energy, electric vehicles, and future mobility.

Together, Liz and Stephen explore how the EV and renewable energy sectors are powered not only by infrastructure and technology but by the people behind them. Stephen explains how Hyperion Search partners with startups, scale-ups, and global players to find the right talent that can accelerate growth and innovation in clean tech.

They discuss the evolving demands of the EV charging landscape, from project management and grid connection to customer experience and data-driven optimisation. Stephen also highlights the critical role of workplace culture in retaining top talent, and why collaboration across the industry keeps him optimistic about reaching net zero.

Steve Robinson Bio:
Steve Robinson is Director of EV and Future Mobility at Hyperion Search, a specialist recruitment firm supporting clean energy and mobility organisations across Europe and beyond. With more than a decade of experience in recruitment, including almost six years in EVs, Steve has helped some of the sector’s most innovative companies scale their teams and expand into new markets. Driven by a passion for purpose-led work and creating a cleaner future for his young family, he combines industry knowledge with a people-first approach to support the growth of renewables, EV charging, battery storage, and future mobility businesses. 

Quote of the Episode:
"Without people, a business is nothing. They’re the ones who take a scrappy startup in someone’s garage and help it grow into a unicorn." — Steve Robinson.

Steve Robinson Links:
Hyperion Search: https://hyperionsearch.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenr19

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:01]:
So on today's episode, I have with me Steve Robinson, and he's the director of EV and future mobility at Hyperion Search. Steve, it's so lovely to have you on here. We've known each other for probably about two or three years now, haven't we?

Steve Robinson [00:00:17]:
We have indeed. Liz, good to see you again, by the way. I think it was Senex about three years ago. We'd known each other before then, but that was the first time we met. One of these events where you just head down, so busy and we rub shoulders and I was like, Liz. And we know each other's faces, but I haven't seen each other in person.

Liz Allan [00:00:35]:
So, oh my God, I'd forgotten that. And it was such a hot day as well, wasn't it? It was really, really hot. Everybody was sweltered in that kind of marquee thing.

Steve Robinson [00:00:43]:
It was roasting. The suit jacket was off pretty quickly, to be honest.

Liz Allan [00:00:49]:
I'm not surprised. Oh my goodness, yes. Thank you, thank you for reminding me about that. I totally forgot. But, but we've been in sort of WhatsApp groups together, and you and I've spoken quite a bit. So I think what everybody's going to be hearing from us today because we know each other, you know, a little bit. It's. It's going to be really interesting because the work you do is interesting in itself, so.

Liz Allan [00:01:13]:
So you've worked in recruitment for a long time now, haven't you? Do you want to give us a little bit of your background?

Steve Robinson [00:01:22]:
Yeah, definitely. So for what, what is it now? So 2012 was when I first cut my teeth. So I'll keep this as concise as possible and take you through a sort of concise run-through memory lane. But I worked in retail while I was studying, so from the age of 16. In fact, it was before I was 16 because remember, legally I had to carry a little blue card in my top pocket that said I could only work. I think I could only work 16 hours because I was still classed as a minor, but I worked for a family-run jewellery business. So that was my first sort of snippet of real-world work. Retail while I was studying, done my GCSEs, went on to sixth form, done my A levels, wanted to be a physio, wanted to go over to Spain and be a physio.

Steve Robinson [00:02:06]:
I was fluent in Spanish way back when, and it just shows you, which we'll probably touch on, like how careers can pivot in different directions, but I wanted to be a Physio, and I knew I wasn't quite good enough to be a footballer. Decent level but never going to make it. So the next best thing to be close to footballers was to be a physio and to do it in a sunnier climate, and use my Spanish language skills. But then that didn't happen. It was actually my now-wife, with whom I've been together for many years, since we were 17.

Liz Allan [00:02:40]:
Wow. Yeah, young love, eh?

Steve Robinson [00:02:43]:
Young love indeed. Yeah. Still going strong. Two houses and two kids later, so we must be doing something right. But yeah, she's, she spotted an ad in uni and just said at this point I was managing the retail unit and was at the gift of the gab, could listen, could empathize, all the good stuff that a salesperson needs. And she was like, listen, there's a, there's an opportunity in recruitment there for the grad scheme. I'd gone on to uni and was studying. So there's the physio idea that went out the window, and I was always fascinated by knowing you go to, you go to like supermarkets, and they have them, those real estate models that people have carved out, and there are these little mini models.

Steve Robinson [00:03:26]:
I wanted to be the person who designs them. So I was, I was, I was big on sort of how towns and cities take shape, you know, walk around like me, major cities, and just seeing the sheer architecture, it fascinated me. But if I'm, if I'm honest, when I was applying for uni, I saw the architecture course and it was seven years.

Liz Allan [00:03:45]:
Oh my God.

Steve Robinson [00:03:48]:
Yeah. I was like, I can't, I was like, I need to be out, and I want to be like living my life. I don't want to be studying for seven years. So I've done sort of the fast track short course and done sort of an urban design and planning degree with all of the architecture modules pulled in, and ended up staying on a dummy degree, dummy masters. And then, in mid-recession 2012, I just got a house. The year before graduating, there were probably 100 jobs for every one graduate. And then the year I graduated, there was probably one job for every 100 graduates.

Liz Allan [00:04:24]:
Oh gosh.

Steve Robinson [00:04:25]:
I'm a Liverpool lad born and bred. All the jobs were down in London. I had some friends down there, so I've been a few times and it did appeal, but I wasn't quite ready, as I say. Just got on the property ladder and was like, I'm not going down to London just yet. So I was looking for the next best thing. And that's when the missus spotted this poster for the recruitment grad scheme in uni and said, You know what, recruitment, it's dealing with people, you know, it's helping people, which is another big thing that I get a kick out of. And she was like, why don't you have a look? And the rest is history. Spent the best part of seven years working for a global recruitment firm that was, I don't know if I can say this, given we're in the sector of clean energy and renewables now, but it was focused on oil and gas.

Steve Robinson [00:05:12]:
So we were working with all the major energy super companies, such as Aramco, Shell, and BP, helping them find talent globally. And it led to me project managing and living abroad for the best part of two years in Saudi Arabia, working on a big petrochemical twin 26 billion dollar project. We hired nearly 400 people. I was a young 20-year-old lad who left the Mrs. at home, went out and lived in Saudi Arabia on my own for two years and got to experience a new culture. Loved it. But then came back home, we lost our mother in law which sort of, sort of helped me realise how important family was.

Steve Robinson [00:05:58]:
So, I came back and wanted to be close to family for a while, and then literally, sort of everything happens, sort of. We fast-tracked the wedding so the mother-in-law could see us get married. We fast-tracked having our first child, and she got six months with my little lad Connor, who's now seven. And it was at that point I was like, right, I've got, I've got a family now, I need to, I need to. They were my "Why", they were my purpose, and I think I've spoken to you about this in the past, but Connor really suffered from. He was like three months old, he was hospitalised, and he had chronic asthma, and still, to be honest, he's doing well now. But it was like, right, I need to do something that has a much more positive impact on his life and kids like him. And it just so happens like I'm, I'm not a petrol head, I'm not a car guy by any stretch.

Steve Robinson [00:06:57]:
Could probably barely even change a tire on the car. To be honest. My family are the opposite. They've worked for Ford, they've worked for Jaguar Land Rover for years. And it just so happened that when I came back from the Middle East, one of our recruitment directors had said Steve, listen like we want to build out this new automotive division, and there was all talk about hybrid vehicles at the time, as you do. He was like, this is the future. So started as you do, you do the research, you look into it. And I had a chat with my grandad and said, Grandad, what do you think about electric vehicles? And typically, he was like, Nonsense.

Steve Robinson [00:07:33]:
They'll never take off. And again, I like the challenge, and it appealed to me. And I started reading up about, you know, cleaner fuel and zero tailpipe emissions. And it was just at the time David Hunt, the MD of our business, reached out and said, Look, we're growing this new EV division. We've got a couple of flagship clients. Like, we need someone to come and grow the business. And it just felt like, you know, you know, the way you just feel like all the stars are aligning.

Liz Allan [00:08:05]:
Yeah, it was kind.

Steve Robinson [00:08:06]:
It was kind of one of their moments where the stars would align, and I wanted to spend some more time with my boy. And I was travelling here then and everywhere, sitting on the dreaded M6 and the M62.

Liz Allan [00:08:16]:
Oh, God, yeah.

Steve Robinson [00:08:18]:
Wanted more time. And it was just. It was like a perfect role, perfect timing for my family life in. In an industry that I felt was. We were at the early stages; it was nascent. There was a lot of negativity, and there still is a lot of negativity towards it. And I was thinking, you know what? This is where I want to be. And that was when I joined David and the team of Hyperion search.

Steve Robinson [00:08:45]:
That was 2019, and we're in 2025 now. So I'm into my sixth year and loving it. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:08:53]:
And now you're a director flipping out. You've done, honestly, the sort of. The move forward is just. Has just been fantastic for you, hasn't it?

Steve Robinson [00:09:02]:
You know what? I think it's like anything, and my dad's always taught me this, and it's kind of a message that circulates in our organisation. You know, if. If it was easy, everyone would do it. I think, you know, for me, it was like I could have quite happily stayed at a previous company. I had lovely friends there, colleagues who became friends. I was flying high. I was bringing in good revenue for the business. The only downside, really, was ethically, it didn't really sit with me, and also that it was eating into family life.

Steve Robinson [00:09:36]:
I was lucky if I was getting 10 minutes with my little boy before bed, and he didn't sit right. So, actually finding something that can. Can support family life, but actually is having one of. One of our sayings here, the Hyperion is, you know, we have a genuine impact on the candidates and the clients that we serve, but it's a genuine impact on the planet as well. You know, it may seem quite cheesy, but the small part we're playing in helping drive the clean energy transition, there's a lot of satisfaction there for me. I'm creating a cleaner future for my kids. I've got a little girl now as well, Kate, she's 14 months. I'm leaving a decent legacy behind, whereas I could have sat, sat and earned mega books, not mega books, but earned well and been supporting the oil and gas industry and that wasn't for me to be honest.

Steve Robinson [00:10:28]:
Liz.

Liz Allan [00:10:29]:
So I was gonna say. So your, your main aim at Hyperion is, is kind of the clean tech and, and kind of mobility and sort of like all the renewables side and things like that, isn't it? Is that, is that kind of. So, so, and that has been what you've been doing there? Have there been any bolt-ons to that since you've actually, you know, kind of started moving in that direction?

Steve Robinson [00:10:54]:
So I think when I first joined, we had a really prestigious name in solar and PV. You know, David and Ross. David had worked in search for many, many years, became well known in a sort of solar renewable energy space, and he and Ross, who is our head of delivery. Ross was brought in as David's first hire when they launched an EPC business. They were essentially, they were doing a lot of C and I and residential installs of solar and scaled the business to about 50 people and it was really buoyant with the feed in tariffs and whatnot and became sort of the go to sort of installation business. We're doing some onshore wind, we're doing some batteries, we're doing some charges, we're doing some PV. And it went full circle when David exited that business. He got back involved in the search.

Steve Robinson [00:11:51]:
Ross came across with him and all this network, these people that they built up relationships with over the years, that were within the solar industry, they had a big, big challenge in terms of how they were going to scale. So David's expertise in search, Ross is cutting his teeth in the search industry and recruitment space. They then supported clients and colleagues and their network to go and find the best salespeople, the best project managers, or the best senior ops people to come and help their solar businesses scale. So when I joined solar was sort of our core pillar if you like and where we had a as big a reputation but then we started working with and you'll remember these businesses but we started working with the likes of Ev Box Christoph when they were, when they were 20 people and they were a Dutch startup and raised, raised a bit of money and wanted to take that product market, fit in the Netherlands and internationalize it. So in the early days when I joined, you know, we were helping businesses like Energy Mobility Solutions, now known as Compleo and Valens on the software side, businesses like ChargePoint, businesses like EVBox, Alphen, who were at the time small startups, raised a bit of money, closed maybe Series A, Series B. We were helping them scale, internationalise, and find real niche key hires in new geographies that they wanted to enter but didn't have, I guess, didn't have the expertise locally. And you know, we're a business that I think we've hired into 17, 18 countries internationally now, and it's almost. We're an extension to the businesses that we serve.

Steve Robinson [00:13:29]:
You know, we put our clients' hats on. And I've always said I don't compete with the internal talent team or the chief people officers or the chief HR officers within my clients. I see myself as wearing their logos and helping them to scale because recruitment gets a bad name. Liz, I'm sure you've heard many people talking about it, but I think businesses that invest in the right talent partner, you know, it's worth its weight in gold. You know, people ultimately are the success drivers of a business. They're the ones that keep the lights on. They're the ones that take them from a scrappy startup in someone's garage to a unicorn. Without people, a business is nothing.

Steve Robinson [00:14:10]:
So why wouldn't you want to invest in a proper talent partner that has the domain expertise like us? You know, we've got, you know, 12 years of cert experience in solar, but all the direct industry experience that David and Ross bring in the years that were before that, and then I've got all the experience. I think I've been working just shy of a decade now within EV sector. We've got David, who heads up our battery storage and grid practice, who's got a similar amount of experience as myself. We've just brought a new colleague in, who's been working in the global renewables space, Nikita, who's got a lot of experience in that space. And we're people who like to say, you know, we're not in the industry to make a quick buck. We're not in the industry because it's, you know, it's the flavour of the month, it's the next best thing. And we haven't piggybacked on the areas where the growth, where the growth is we're in this industry because we genuinely believe in it. You know, we've all been driving electric for five, six years.

Steve Robinson [00:15:09]:
We've all been banging the drum for, you know, 10 years plus. So if we can help clients really scale up and reach their growth objectives and have a genuine impact on their success, you know, it's, it's superb.

Liz Allan [00:15:23]:
And I love the fact that you're so what you're kind of saying, saying to me there is that you yourself and Hyperion are. You build your bill up as trusted partners, and you yourself are very respected in the sector, you know, which is brilliant. And I'll kind of define that. The difference. So I think we probably do need to define the difference between regular recruitment and what you do because it is, it is different, isn't it? Because actually, you're looking for talent rather than a kind of advert, just advertising jobs. And you know, I'm not saying it's just, that's not a just because. No, none of this is easy, but you're, you're literally going out and finding the right people for those. Yeah, look, aren't you?

Steve Robinson [00:16:10]:
Yeah, exactly. And look, not. None of it's, none of it's, none of it's easy. And I'm not one who's gonna slag off, you know, no. High street.

Liz Allan [00:16:18]:
High street, you're not that kind of guy.

Steve Robinson [00:16:20]:
Anyway, seriously, you know, I've been there. You know, high street recruitment agencies. You know, I always say like, if you're looking for someone who is like a proper generalist who can multitask and spin multiple plates and juggle multiple balls, accuse all the cliches, but you're not going to find anyone better that's worked in recruitment because the pressure that's on them. You know, a lot of recruiters out there are competing against 10 other firms trying to find the right person and to be honest, that's where it gets sloppy because it becomes less about quality and more about who's got the fastest finger and who can throw enough CVs into a client's online ATS system and hopefully one or two of them will stick. That's not us. We're a business that comes in typically. As I say, we don't compete against an in-house recruitment team; we partner with them. In the sense that you think of a firm.

Steve Robinson [00:17:13]:
We typically work with startups and scale ups that are post investment and there's a number of key hires that are missing and you know, the founders typically that we work closely with or The C level that we work closely with and you know, they're, they're one HR person that's typically the office manager, who's typically the payroll person or the invoice person and the marketeer as well. Yeah, we're there to take that pain away and say, look, you've got so much on your plate with, you know, the internal functions that you're, you're looking after. Let us put your company hat on, be your storyteller and go to market. And what we do by going to market is we tell our client story compellingly so that it reaches the people that aren't active and aren't live job seekers. It's actually that, if your company A is not the top performer, but company B is, they're the highest performer. Everyone wants their product, everyone wants their solution, everyone's working with them, they're high flying. It's actually taking the key talents from your competitors and from the companies and the adjacent and the aligned industries that make sense and making sure that we're finding the very best people that aren't looking and convincing them that they should want to come and work for your business because your business is the one that's going to be flying in the next few months. So it's actually reaching those, I guess those real hard to reach talents that aren't looking and almost trying to unlock and trying to understand, really get under their skin.

Steve Robinson [00:18:43]:
What motivates them, you know, what, you know, what gets them out of bed every morning and trying to maybe find are there a few frustrations or the things there that perhaps they could achieve elsewhere, and really finding the best talents on the market for our clients so that our clients can grow. You know, there are clients out there that just don't get the model. There are clients out there who think they can just put a job advert on LinkedIn, sit back, and they're going to get the best people who are going to apply. There might be that rare instance where there might be, that timing could be, could be right, and someone is unfortunately maybe just being made redundant or that in this transition period, where they've taken time out to think about what could be next, and they spot it. But realistically, that's not going to happen. Partnering with a firm that knows the space, that lives and breathes the space. I mean, I'm speaking to everyone and anyone who are the real top performance, whether it's operationally, commercially, technically, I'm speaking to people day in, day out. So I'm getting insights from you know, what's going on within that company versus what's going on within that company.

Steve Robinson [00:19:51]:
Verse, you know, what's the market saying? And I can share all this knowledge to my client who has got so much going on internally they haven't got the time. I was speaking to someone recently, we talk about these WhatsApp groups and these forums that we're in. There was a founder who was a successful founder, exited the business but had a few harsh things to say about recruiters mainly because he'd had some bad experiences but in the same breath was talking about how they were spending 40 hours a week, 30 hours a week on recruitment and sifting through lots and lots of different applications and getting nowhere and getting counter offers or dealing with tinpot recruiters who were just using their business as leverage to try and get a better offer elsewhere, reach out and deal with a proper firm that know what they're talking about. We can take all that pain away.

Liz Allan [00:20:41]:
Ultimately, 40 hours is a lot, it's a lot to be looking for people, isn't it? You know, huge, huge amounts. And if you can take that pain away from someone and get them what they need, yes, they've got a, you know, know this is all fee-based stuff anyway, isn't it? But actually, if you think about that, that's, that's a working, that's over a working week, you know, and if you've got founders who are doing all of that, then, then they can't do their regular job. Because as like you said, you know, it's like me with, in a small business, you end up having to have lots of different hats on, you know, and if you've got one additional hat to cut, you know, you can't split yourself, you just end up slicing yourself far too thinly.

Steve Robinson [00:21:28]:
You'll be burning the candle at both ends and, and ultimately, you know, if you're a, whatever function, if you're a scale up that's just raised 100 million and you know, you're trying to tweak and refine your product for, you know, for one market first, the next market and it's all hands, heads down, literally trying to get the product right and then you've got all your customers that you need to deliver, deliver for, you know, you've got all your different functions, you've got, you know, your commercial guys and girls trying to generate revenue for the business and then you've got the, the pipeline of projects that are, you know, nearing construction and commissioning phases and you've Got your guys out in the field and your girls out in the field that are delivering. Where are you finding the time to go and hire for those, those real headache, hard to fill roles? You could have an internal talent team that are going to pick up and that's where we, you know, we don't tend to focus on the sort of the entry level or the mid level roles. We will typically help support our clients focusing on the real niche senior leadership hires that are business critical and helping them. So you know, they may have an internal team that are focusing on the, I guess the more general roles we'll focus on the niche hires that are really becoming problematic for the business if they don't get found quickly.

Liz Allan [00:22:44]:
So, so that works perfectly with my next question. So what, what would you say the roles are that are in, in most demand currently? Kind of as we're, you know, we're sort of building up towards what, 20, 30, aren't we? You know, and there are, there are demands in certain sectors, aren't they, on specific, specific areas. What, what are those key roles that are kind of coming up really that people are looking for? Can you share?

Steve Robinson [00:23:12]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think we've gone, let's take the EV charge and infrastructure landscape just as an example. We've gone from the sort of land grab like sort of builder and they will come like let's go out there and stick a charger in every bay that we can phase to. Actually we need to sell more kilowatt hours and we need to drive utilization to our sites so it becomes more around reliability. And as you've seen with the regulations now and uptime and whatnot, we need to make sure that the network is performing, it's doing what it says on the tin and it's performing how it should be performing. So there's a big, big focus on asset optimization, network and asset management. Obviously there's firms out there now that are doing a real great job and we've worked with a lot of the CPOs out there and still do that are really, you know, they've got great partnerships and they're delivering infrastructure that invest in infrastructure. So there's always going to be that need for program, project construction, commission and management and really making sure that, you know, that the projects are being delivered on time, at budget, at cost.

Steve Robinson [00:24:22]:
But then it becomes about managing those assets and making sure that they're running as they should be. So there's a big growth there. Obviously we've seen some challenges with the grid and there's a lot of reform on the horizon and hopefully that's going to pave the way for, you know, quicker plan and application processes and making sure that, you know, we can get bottlenecks reduced and whatnot. But there's going to be, I think what we're seeing now it's, I work quite closely with David Beeston on our, on our grid and best practice and there's a real, there's a real need for grid connections specialists so those that are, you know, can understand the nuance of connecting assets to the grid and all the, all the complexities and the red tape that you've got to, you've got to rip through in order to get a piece of renewable energy infrastructure operational and live. Whether it's a AC DC charger or whether it's a, you know, a big battery storage unit, you know, the same skill sets apply. You've then got obviously the businesses, you know, there's not many businesses out there that are making money because it's been a, you know, a big period of investment over the last decade. We need to start making money. So you know, not, not just bringing in commercial people who can box shift and, and just sell product.

Steve Robinson [00:25:44]:
It's much more consultative now. It's much more long term, it's solutions selling. It's, you know, chief revenue officers for instance, are core roles of ours that we help businesses bring in so they can help optimise that revenue engine and help businesses really get the most out of their product and their solutions. It's those commercial architects that are really setting the business up for long term success rather than just getting some short term low hanging fruit wins. That's great right now, but it's, you know, the people that are going to really carve out these long term frameworks that are 15, 20 years into the future that are going to set the business up for success is where we're seeing a lot of attention, a lot of demand. And then one of the biggest ones, as well, on that utilisation piece, is how do we drive more people to our network? So you know, CPO, chief product officer, product directors, propositions, architects, people that are going to really map out that whole customer journey and that customer experience, and make sure that that's going to be the very best customer experience as possible. The certain networks I've used, you know, travelling, going on camping trips, commuting and travelling for businesses, there's the set networks.

Steve Robinson [00:26:59]:
I'll never go back to Liz, because the customer experience was that poor. So.

Liz Allan [00:27:03]:
Yeah, me too.

Steve Robinson [00:27:04]:
I guess the businesses that are Investing in that customer journey and making sure that people are going to want to come back are the ones that are going to be here in the, in the long term.

Liz Allan [00:27:13]:
Because I was going to say we were talking a little bit about. Because you know, that customer experience is kind of like my, my number one aim to kind of make, not have it as an afterthought. And I know, and we said this before, don't we? You know, I said this, that driving revenue. I get it, I get it, I get it. And getting assets in the ground, that's a lot. Especially the D.C. network, you know, kind of anything that's ultra-rapid. Because it's not cheap, it's not a cheap asset, is it? But you don't want to put it in the ground.

Liz Allan [00:27:49]:
And you, so you've got your project management, you've got your project management piece all the way through, including Grid, like you said, and getting it in the ground and connecting it. But, but this. And I'm not, and I'm not trying to generalize here, because I have seen, I have seen this. It gets to a stage where it's in the ground, and they know that service and maintenance contracts have been assigned. But it's, it's not just that. It's that customer experience piece, isn't it? It's that you've just literally hit the nail on the head. There are networks that you won't go back to. There are networks that I won't go back to.

Liz Allan [00:28:26]:
My. What I want, what I'd like to see more of is the customer experience changing. The people who are going in as customer experience officers or directors or whatever, or even, you know, there just needs to be some. Because we are seeing little pockets of people who are going in as customer experience, giving them a budget, giving them a budget that is meaningful to make a difference to the business. Because even though it's hard, customer experience is a hard one, isn't it? I think we were talking about this before we started recording that it's hard to say what revenue it generates. But actually, there are metrics that you can, you can, you know, you can run reports. There are metrics that you can come up with that actually will track how well your customer experience is versus, you know, you and your utilisation. Because if you've got low, low utilisation, it probably, unless there's something very wrong, it usually means that it's.

Liz Allan [00:29:30]:
If you've got low utilisation in a high traffic area. The idea would be to look at the root cause and have a look at what is going on with that customer experience.

Steve Robinson [00:29:42]:
Because there's something, absolutely, I think the key thing there is data and insights, and we're seeing a lot more businesses focus on the data, a lot more number crunching, and it's understanding what insights we're getting back from the utilisation of the network, and how we can improve that. So you know, the analytical skill sets that people can bring are becoming, coming hugely sought after and we're likely to see that to continue.

Liz Allan [00:30:12]:
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's, but it's, it's also the, the data that you can't quite, you just can't run a report just like that on because some of it's about customer sentiment, isn't it?

Steve Robinson [00:30:23]:
So it's getting out there and speaking to drivers and understanding, you know, what are the, what's the, their, what's their feedback, what's their perception and taking all of this information and actually doing something with it. As I say, there are networks that are my go-tos because I know if it says it's going to deliver X amount of power, I'm pretty much going to get X amount of power. There are networks out there that say they're going to do one thing, and you walk away this way or you drive away disappointed at the end of it. So.

Liz Allan [00:30:50]:
Yeah, but I mean, what, not mention any names? No, no, we weren't, we're not going to do that. I mean, what we're talking about, what you've just been talking about earlier, though, is the ability for people to have these transferable skills that actually will work in other sectors, like EV charging, like other parts of renewables, decarbonization and that, that kind of stuff.

Steve Robinson [00:31:13]:
You know, it's tough as well, Liz. You know, I get a lot of people who genuinely, you know, like me, they, their kids are their purpose, and they want to, they want to work in a meaningful career, and there's nothing better for us to help people transition over. And we set up a spin-off business a while back with the Fully Charged guys, and that was exactly focused on that. It was trying to get people from outside of the sector in, and I think it is, it's really, really tough. It's trying to hone in on those transferable skills. But I think the challenge is, you know, a lot of the CPOs and a lot of the CPMS platforms and a lot of, you know, the big infrastructure players that invest in heavily and they need to deliver and they need to make sure that, you know, that, you know, right away from feasibility to commissioning and go live of their network, they need to make sure that they're delivering, you know, credible infrastructure that's going to drive people back. And often as much as it pains me, it's difficult for people to get in without experience. I think we're seeing a lot, and we have seen a lot over the years. We've seen a lot of people move from the solar PV world into the EV world.

Steve Robinson [00:32:28]:
And now we're seeing a significant number of people transition from the EV world into the battery storage space. You know, I've seen founders that we've worked with way back, Ben, way back when that have built and scaled up even EV charging hardware businesses or EV charging operations businesses that are now working for battery energy storage solutions companies and they're deploying big battery assets across Europe because, you know, they've took all the learnings from the ev, the EV scale ups that they've been involved in and now applying them to battery storage, which is a huge growth area for us because, you know, helping build resilience and additional capacity on that grid is going to be crucial as, especially as we head towards those 2030 deadlines and whatnot. So, you know, it's, it's nothing better for us to help take people outside of the industry. But I'm not going to come on here and say it's easy because it's not; it's tough. And there's lots of advice that I can give to help people, you know, get out there and put their name and put the best foot forward, and you know, associate in the right circles. That's key. You've got to get out there, you've got to, to create your profile and connect with people in the space because, you know, if you've got a CV with no experience and you're not really drawing out those transferable skills, you're gonna suffer.

Liz Allan [00:33:49]:
Yes, I mean, it goes back to that phrase, doesn't it? It's not what you know, it's who you know. But actually that's, that's a, that is a really important thing. You know, it's actually, it is connecting with those people and making yourself be known. You know, especially if you're a credible, honest individual who kind of, you know, that, that actually, you like you're saying, you know, you want to do the best for your kids. The same with me, you know, I want to do the best for my son and my husband because of what. Partly because of what my husband does, but actually, you know, it's also for me, and sort of like it's that, that legacy, isn't it what you can leave and just.  know that I want, I would like more people to move to EVs and to renewables and decarbonise, try and use this podcast to actually share knowledge that people have got like yours, you know, so that people understand it and there's less misinformation because. And I talk to the people who are honest and will come out.

Liz Allan [00:34:59]:
You know, this is the truth. All the other bits of just please, I always say to people, please don't take notice of what is in the, in, you know, various news newspapers.

Steve Robinson [00:35:10]:
That's part of the challenge. You know, part of the challenge over the years has been the amount of people that I've engaged and tried to try to, you know, get on board the green energy transition. You know, there's a lot of negative out there. The media obviously is leading, leading the way in that regard. But you know, even just like friendship circles and family, I was telling you before, my granddad liked having a laugh at me when I was saying I was working in the sector, funnily enough, I've just been for a weekend away at the golf watching, watching the golf. A friend of mine, Cadiz and another friend of mine sorted us out some tickets, and I drove down. I was a passenger and drove down with a friend of mine who's a joiner, got his own firm, and it was his first long journey in his VW E transporter. And if you'd asked me two, three years ago, would Tom, my best mate, be driving an electric van, I'd have said, not a hope in hell.

Steve Robinson [00:36:02]:
No chance. And here he is talking about how he's got his home charger installed, how he's waiting for the smart meter to be installed so he can get up, get on Octopus and get cheaper off-peak charging. And I'm like, am I listening to the same person that I've known for 20 years?

Liz Allan [00:36:18]:
Yeah.

Steve Robinson [00:36:19]:
Where's Tom?

Liz Allan [00:36:20]:
Because who are you?

Steve Robinson [00:36:21]:
For years and years and years he challenged me and was like, you're in the wrong industry. You know, it's going to be, you know, it's going to be one of these flavor of the month type industries and it's going to drop off and you'll be scraping around for work and there's no denying it's got challenging, you know, it's, it's become much more around quality of networks and as I said before, not just a land grab no more with regards to EV charging infrastructure. But undeniably, you know, the dominant technology for road transportation and probably for air and sea in the long term is going to be electrification. I'm fascinated now by, and we're doing more and more now in the fleet space with heavy goods vehicles and with logistics, e-logistics and helping the organisations transition. It's such a complex challenge. I guess we've learned a lot from the transition with passenger cars and the public charging network for regular EV drivers like us, and putting workplace charging, destination charging, and I still think there's a lot more to be done. But the next thing that's exciting me is the likes of Tom, the commercial vehicle space. He's got a van.

Steve Robinson [00:37:32]:
But then it's looking heavy-duty, it's looking at these heavy goods vehicles. You know, I look at what Aegis Energy are doing, I look at what MYLANT are doing in Europe, I look at what I was listening to a podcast with Modo Energy, what Mikey Clark at Reload Energy is doing with these clean energy hubs. There's no denying the dominant technology is going to be electric. Yes, there might be. You know, there's more and we're getting more involved in the SAF space with HVO and synthetics and biofuels, and there's certainly going to be a place for those. But I think dominantly it's going to be electrification, and the sooner people get on board with that, the better.

Liz Allan [00:38:14]:
Yeah, and it's great. And it's great that your friend has done, you know, has made that move. You've got to, you've got to tell that story that you told me before, before we started recording, about when he. Because that was his first charging experience, wasn't it?

Steve Robinson [00:38:29]:
Oh yeah, it was his first charge experience, and to be honest, it was a 76-mile one-way journey. So about 150 miles round trip. We get to 200 miles of range there or thereabouts. It was fully charged before we set off. I think we had 196 miles by the time he picked me up, and then we set off on the journey. But you know, he's a, he's a tradie so you know, he doesn't start his day without a greasy bacon and egg sandwich. So he was gonna stop off anyway. So while we stopped off, it just so happened there was a 300-kilowatt motor fuel group charger.

Steve Robinson [00:39:10]:
So we were like, great. I'd never used the network before. This was his first public charging experience. So to be honest, that's been. I'd been geeing myself up, saying You know what, it's easy, you know, plug in, it's fine. And it was, you know, we, we plugged up, we, we, we parked up, we selected the connector, we plugged in, and it was a contactless payment, and we were charged before he was, he was finished with it with, with his bacon sandwich. There was someone else parked in, so we didn't get the power delivered that we were expecting. But you know what, it was a good opportunity.

Steve Robinson [00:39:47]:
We stopped for a bite to eat anyway, we stopped for a coffee, and we topped back up within what, 10 minutes, and we were back on the road, and he couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe how easy it was. And I said this is, this is the thing, Dom. Tom. My clients, you know, the clients that I speak to, work with, and hire for day in, day out. They're investing millions into making sure that the infrastructure is there to enable people, people like you, to make the switch. And he's telling everyone now, and it's amazing. He's on site, you know, he's working on building houses and working on commercial industrial developments, and he's telling everyone on site, look how easy it is.

Steve Robinson [00:40:25]:
And he was, he was putting £400amonth in fuel.

Liz Allan [00:40:30]:
Oh my good grief. Oh my God.

Steve Robinson [00:40:33]:
Wow. £400amonth and it's probably going to cost them less than 50 quid now.

Liz Allan [00:40:39]:
Yeah, yeah, if he's got a 200-mile range, because that's what we can get in ,the summer we can get 200 miles out of ours , and it costs us three quid.

Steve Robinson [00:40:52]:
You know I can top mine up. I've got a Model 3 with an octopus overnight. It's, it's less than a fiver for a 270-mile range.

Liz Allan [00:41:02]:
Yeah, it makes a massive cost saving. You know, we talk about the total cost of ownership, which I think we need to. Probably not me and you, but there needs to be a simpler, simplified understanding of what the total cost of ownership is, don't you reckon? Because I think if you've not got an EV and you don't, and you just see so people still say oh price of EVs are, you know, brand new EVs are really expensive, you know, and I know a lot of people buy new. And yes, they might be my, you know, marginally, I think a lot of them are coming back, coming down. But I think it's that understanding of, for people who've been driving petrol or diesel for ages, whether they've got vans, cars, whatever, to help them to understand this. That's what this is, what this means. It's not just, it's not just the amount you're paying. Yes, it might be more or whatever or marginally whatever.

Liz Allan [00:42:01]:
It's about what you're putting in.

Steve Robinson [00:42:03]:
Exactly, exactly. And naturally, there's a lot, there's a lot of, I guess, what's the word I'm looking for.  People are quite apprehensive about making the switch. You know, there was, we won't go into the myths because I'll be honest, they bore me, and I think we're past them. But there was a lot of scepticism around range anxiety and what happens when the warranty runs out on the battery. But I just use cases all the time and say, here's a guy that I know in the industry, he's got a second-hand Tesla, he's got 220,000 miles on the clock, and it's still running like a dream, and it's still costing him a fiver to charge. You know the second-hand market. It would be interesting to see how things are affected, obviously, with the electric car grant that's going to come out.

Steve Robinson [00:42:49]:
But the second-hand market, now we've just gone from two cars down to one, and we're kind of in this transition period right now, where it's a case of do we need a second car, can we get by on one? We've gone from two EVs to one, and I'm looking at the second-hand market now. For instance, you can get a.. I think the cheapest Tesla on Auto Trader was about £11K.

Liz Allan [00:43:13]:
Yeah, yeah.

Steve Robinson [00:43:15]:
You know what, you might need to take out a loan. You know, not many people have access to 11 grand. I understand that, but some of these cars are gonna, are gonna run way beyond 250, 300000 miles on the clock. And if you can save like my pal Tom there, my mate Tom sent saving 300 odd pounds, 350 odd pounds a month, it's a no-brainer, Tom. We were on the winding country lanes of Staffordshire, and he was just like How easy is this to drive? How fun is it to drive? Not least how much money he's saving. I think obviously we now need to look at the, you know, that the heavy, good sides as well, which, as I mentioned before, is a lot more complex. You know, the depot infrastructure that we need to put in place is going to be key. There's more, more models coming up, coming out, coming available. It's making sure that we've got highway infrastructure that's going to support, you know, these long routes of these HGVs.

Steve Robinson [00:44:16]:
It's an exciting space and I think, you know, we're already seeing, we're already seeing big fleets invest heavily and they're already seeing the benefits. So we'll see more and more follow suit.

Liz Allan [00:44:28]:
And I think, yeah, that, that, that's. We've, it's, it's. This has got to be inclusive for everybody, hasn't it? And talking about being inclusive, I was going to talk, I was going to ask you, because, you know, you and I could talk, like forever. Can we. For the last few minutes, I was going to talk to you about what you're doing in the recruitment space and how it aligns with workplace culture. Because that. We would talk about that before we started recording, weren't we? And what does a company culture do? How does a company culture affect how somebody gains that talent and keeps that talent? Because you'll have seen this, weren't you, a lot, I'm assuming it's huge.

Steve Robinson [00:45:17]:
I think, you know, for us, one of the first things, if a client engages us, one of the first things that I want to do is try and get on site and try and try and try and understand the culture. I want to have conversations. You know, we deal a lot of founder level and C level and maybe one or two tiers below, you know, director, heads of department and whatnot. And the first thing we ask is, you know, what's your culture like? You know, what does a. What does. If you're hiring a Chief Commercial Officer, what can they expect? If you're hiring a Chief Financial Officer, what can they expect? We want to understand the company culture, but then the departmental culture, the functions, we want to understand and sort of get to grips with the values, the ethos of the business. Because selling a role to the market is one thing. You know, on paper, you know, people can put whatever they want on a cv, but, you know, if you've got a micromanaged company culture, if you've got a culture that is of a certain type that doesn't sit well with, you know, the people that we're introducing to you, then, you know, it's not going to be set up for long term success.

Steve Robinson [00:46:28]:
So it's trying to align and really get under the skin of our clients and understand, you know, what, what, you know, what are you doing for talent development internally? What does an end-of-quarter look like? You know, do you have company off-site? You know, if you're a fully remote team, how do you keep your employees engaged? If you're in the office five days a week, team, you know, what are you doing there to sort of create that sort of team collaboration? Because it can be very insular. You know, people can be head down, you know, when they're in the office, they can be head down. On the flip side, when you're in the office, people think they've got an open license to just come over to your desk and interrupt you and talk about the football or talk about everything else. So I think it's massively important. And I always ask the founder, what was their story, where did the business originate? Typically, most of the founders that we work with stem from the fact that they had a real pain, they had a problem with something, and they wanted to think of a solution to alleviate that problem. And then it's okay, well then, trying to understand how that business evolved, and this is what the business looks like today. Where do you see the business going in the next five to 10 years, and how may that affect your culture? If you've gone from a UK business that's 20 employees to a business that's operational in France, Netherlands, Denmark, German,y and you're now 500 employees, you know how, you know how, you, how, how are you going to maintain those, those that ethos, your business, that the foundations in which it was built. And if a client can't give me an answer, then we'll keep pushing because I want to, I've got to do, I've obviously got a duty of care to my clients to go and find them the very best pay person.

Steve Robinson [00:48:25]:
But I've also got a duty of care to the talents that I'm helping in the market because I'm changing their career trajectory, and I want to make sure they're going to come in somewhere where they can thrive. And you know, most of the companies that we work with, you know, they've got fantastic cultures. Some businesses, it's been a work in progress and you know, there's, there's lots to juggle and there's lots of fun firefighting in those early startup days. But it's setting expectations from the onset so that when we're setting expectations to the market, they know what they're getting. You know, if you've worked at a large corporate, you're going to come and work for the startup. It's going to be a culture shock. But as long as we have those honest, frank conversations and we set them from the onset, then there's going to be no surprises. So hugely, hugely, those that underestimate, you know, the importance of a good company culture, I think, yeah, they need to evaluate things.

Liz Allan [00:49:22]:
Absolutely. I think culture is, yeah, I think in some places it is underestimated and undervalued, but the ones that are doing it well are keeping, getting, obtaining or attaining, you know, kind of talent, and that's what helps you to grow. So I'm going to ask you a final question then. So sure. You're really. We would talk about this before, weren't we? I think you're very what I would say. Glass, glass half full person, optimistic, you know, so, so what, what keeps you optimistic? And, what if you looked at your.

Liz Allan [00:50:06]:
On the upside, from an optimistic point of view, what do you see in the. What would you like to see in the next few years happen within this sector?

Steve Robinson [00:50:19]:
Great question. I think the thing for me, and I've been asked this before, I think the thing for me is I've worked in industries where money is, the primary motivator, and yes, we all want a nice life, we all want to have nice shiny things, we all want to give the best. When we're not here and our kids are grown up, we want them to have the best start to life as possible, of course, but to do that as well as doing something that is genuinely having a broad impact, I said it earlier on and having worked as long as I've worked now approaching a decade in the renewable tools and working at driving the, the energy transition forward, what I'm optimistic about is genuinely the people that we've got leading the way, you know, they all want to earn money. Of course they do. The majority of people, like I've just said, want to earn money, but they could quite easily down tools and go into another industry that's far more fruitful, far more, you know, far more lucrative. But I think it's the people that have been here for as long as I've been here and longer, you know, despite the headwinds, despite the geopolitics, despite the wars, despite the rocky road that we've been on, I guess, for the last 18 to 24 months, it's the resilience of the industry. It's the collaboration of the industry. I've never known an industry that, you know, as you said before, the industry forums that were involved in the WhatsApp groups that we're in, and you chuck in a message, you ask for help, and people can't jump on it quick enough.

Steve Robinson [00:52:03]:
And that stems from the leaders that we've got at the CPOs, at the businesses that we're supporting that have created this collaborative culture, talking about culture within their organisations, which, yes, we want to be the best. It's almost like this play nice but win attitude. You know, we want to be the very best we can, but we're not going to be. Excuse me, language here. We're not going to be dicks along the way. We're going to empathise, and we're gonna be helpful, and we're gonna do it in the right way. And, you know, I've got relationships out there with, with other recruitment directors and founders at other firms who will call me and I'll call them and we'll consult on each other from time to time if there's someone that they've got in the market that has just really had a bad turn of luck or they were picked to the post in another search process and, and they couldn't help them, and they've got nothing to help them. It's not, it's not unfamiliar for other businesses to call me, who I've got good relationships within the sector and say, hey, Steve, I really, I really want to help this person.

Steve Robinson [00:53:03]:
Can you help them? And in my old sector, you wouldn't get that. It was every. Everyone is out for themselves. Whereas I think this industry is genuinely so collaborative, it gives me a lot of optimism that we're gonna, we're gonna hit the net zero targets that we, we say we're going to hit. People are in it, naturally, yes, because we all want to live well, as I say, but we all want to have a positive impact on the planet. And that ties into Hyperion's almost our value. You know, we want to have a genuine impact on the clients and candidates, but we want to have a genuine impact on the planet as well. And some may perceive that to be a bit cheesy, but for us, it's not.

Steve Robinson [00:53:43]:
You know, it's not 12 months ago, you know, when, when things were really tough in the EV space, I could have easily down tools or down tools on the UK and Europe and gone and focused on the US, where all the money was pouring into and focused in a different corner of the market. But it's not me. You know, I'm in this for the long run, whether you like it or not. And you know, my family, you know, I'm still, there are a few people I still need to convert and get on board. But as I say with my mate earlier, I look back now and the amount of people that used to laugh at me five years ago compared to the amount of people that are really on board with me now, who would install a solar on the roof or getting a home battery in the garage or in some cases, getting a second electric car. It just shows me that you know what, we're doing something right. The future is going to be exciting. As I said before, you know, we talk around the heavy-duty transition decarbonisation of the heavy goods vehicles.

Steve Robinson [00:54:40]:
We haven't even scratched the surface with air and sea. We haven't even scratched the surface with other technologies, things like vehicle to grid, you know, zero, zero energy homes, where you're gonna, you know, you're not gonna pay an energy bill again. This is exciting stuff.

Liz Allan [00:55:01]:
It is, it is, it's amazing. Honestly, I could really talk to you for like ever because you're such a genuine and lovely, lovely guy. I'm just gonna say I hope everybody who's been watching and listening has just really enjoyed listening to you because. And if you didn't know this man beforehand, you now know him because he's just such a lovely, lovely guy. Hey star. So, I'm just going to say on that note, thank you. It's been a genuine joy from the bottom of my heart to talk to you, honestly. We don't talk too often, do we? But seriously, this has just been lovely, lovely to talk to you, and it's nice to hear it. All of the wonderful stuff that you're doing really is, you know.

Steve Robinson [00:55:56]:
No, it has likewise, and I look forward to grabbing a coffee in person again. It's been, it's been a while.

Liz Allan [00:56:02]:
Too long. Yeah.

Steve Robinson [00:56:04]:
There are so many events that come up in the calendar season now that we can't get to everyone. But definitely we'll, we'll cross paths soon and keep doing what you're doing with a platform like this as well, you know what fighting the good fight and really, really giving people like myself and others that are leading the way in the industry to have that platform to tell others about what they're doing, you know, that's the collaborative piece that I talked about. So thank you, and I appreciate it.

Liz Allan [00:56:31]:
Bless you. Well, listen, so to everybody watching and listening, please, like subscribe and share, or you know this. Steve and Hyperion are doing a fantastic job. And you know that the more we get the positive word of mouth out, the more people will hopefully understand that we're talking the truth and it's not a load of bull at that point. Yeah, like subscribe, share, check out our LinkedIn page, Electric Evolution LinkedIn page, and do all those wonderful things. So, as a final note, just to say thank you to Steve and thank you to you all for watching, listening, and I'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.

Steve Robinson [00:57:16]:
Thank you.