Episode 165: Liz Allan and Amy-Jane Marsden - Revolutionising Automotive Training for an Electric Future

Episode 165: Liz Allan and Amy-Jane Marsden - Revolutionising Automotive Training for an Electric Future.

Liz Allan speaks to Amy-Jane Marsden, Co-Founder and Managing Director of Pro-Tech MOT & Automotive Academy, a pioneering training centre equipping technicians, emergency services and MOT testers with the hands-on skills needed for the EV age.

Amy shares her remarkable journey from working within the DVSA and Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Service to leading one of the UK's most innovative automotive academies. Together, Liz and Amy-Jane discuss how MOT standards must evolve to reflect the realities of electric and hybrid vehicles, why practical EV training saves lives, and how Pro-Tech's real-world approach is transforming safety culture across the industry.

They discuss the crucial need for education, communication, and confidence in EV maintenance across garages, technicians, and first responders. There are also powerful insights on MOT reform, EV safety, and the future of skills in a fast-changing automotive landscape.

Amy-Jane Marsden Bio:
Amy-Jane Marsden is the Co-Founder and Managing Director of Pro-Tech MOT & Automotive Academy, a leading UK training provider specialising in MOT, hybrid, and electric-vehicle qualifications. With a career spanning heavy-goods transport, the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA), and Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Service, she combines deep regulatory knowledge with real-world automotive experience. Amy-Jane is passionate about improving road safety, championing hands-on EV education, and building technician confidence through practical, high-impact training. 

Quote of the Episode:
"People are frightened of EVs because they don't understand them, but with the right training, confidence follows, and safety becomes second nature."
 — Amy-Jane Marsden.

Amy-Jane Marsden Links:
Website: https://pro-techacademy.co.uk
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-jane-marsden-52198051

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:02]:
So, hi everybody and welcome back to the Electric Evolution podcast. Now today I'm joined by someone who absolutely blew me away when I saw her present in Oxford. So I've got Amy Jane Marsden, who's the co-founder and managing director of ProTech, MOT and Automotive Academy. Amy, thank you for joining me. You know, we could talk for ages, and you're just an amazing person. Thank you.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:00:30]:
Good afternoon, Liz, thank you for having me.

Liz Allan [00:00:34]:
Now, so I will go into where we met kind of later on, but I just want to talk a little bit about what you've done. I always start off with this: what you've done before you set up your business, Pro-Tech. What happened? What was the run-up to that, and why did you decide to, you know, do it and set it up? So, yeah, just let us fill you in.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:01:04]:
So I've always worked in and around the automotive and heavy vehicle industries. So I did my apprenticeship in driving heavy goods vehicles quite a few years ago now, and it was one of my favourite roles that I had at the time. And then, as I was having my family, I went into transport management, and I went on to work for a company that perhaps wasn't particularly well behaved. So I went from there and joined Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Service again. Really enjoyed working there, looking after all the fire appliances. And I was offered a position at what was then VOSA but is now the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency. And I was offered a role as a traffic examiner, which is operator, licensing, driver's hours and really heavy vehicle and psv. So I started working at the agency quite a few years ago now.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:02:21]:
And I love the role, I love the job. And that was where I met my now husband. He was a senior vehicle examiner, so he was very much on the mechanical side of things. And then I was more the driver's hours. So I, we went to New York, had an amazing weekend in New York, had that feeling that everybody gets, I think, when you come back from New York and go, oh, I've got to go back to work tomorrow. Like I say, we both loved our roles, we both loved what we did, but we didn't love the bureaucracy and the politics that come from working within any government agency, I think. So we sort of made the decision that we were going to set up on our own, and so we were going to look after HEV and PSV operators, and we left the agency a couple of months after. We originally never intended to do training, but actually MOT training was privatised back in May of 2016, and it was one thing that the introduction of annual training around MOTs was introduced.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:03:38]:
So Leah was being asked on a regular basis, Is this something you can help us with? Is this something that you can support us with? So we made the decision to start doing training, and then we managed to acquire one workshop, and then we eventually acquired a second workshop. And now we have a facility for MOT training, but we also have a facility for electric vehicle and ADAS training. And we've gone from just being a husband and wife team to there's eight of us now, which is incredible.

Liz Allan [00:04:15]:
That's fantastic. It really is. And, and I just, so I'm gonna, I'm just gonna say now that when I saw Amy present in Oxford, she, she was. And, I've done training in the past, so you kind of recognise a really good trainer, and you were passionate. Your presentation style was fantastic. Your subject, the fact that you, you could, were so passionate about that, that, about the subject matter, was just amazing. So we've had conversations, and you'll probably work out when you're watching and listening that we've talked for absolutely ages. We, like I say we, we've, we've talked for so much, so long, but basically I want to come back to you now and talk about the we.

Liz Allan [00:05:08]:
There's so many things, there's so many things that, that you kind of brought up during that presentation. I think what I'd like to start with is specifically with regards to, and we've just talked about it before we started recording about the MOTs, because there's a number of training courses that you're, that you're offering, aren't you? So you've got, you know, kind of, you've got mot, you've got electric, hybrid, hybrid courses and things like that. Can we start with the MOT? And can you explain to everybody what your thoughts are about the current market, especially in relation to general vehicles, but electric and hybrid and just in general.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:05:52]:
So I think MOT is a really, really important subject because it impacts on everybody. The MOT is designed to be the bare minimum standard, and it's about road safety for the UK as a whole. Now, as part of my speech during Oxford was around the current format of the MOT and how it's not keeping up with technologies that we see today on our roads today. So one of the things that I talked about was the fact that when we look at electric vehicle technology, for example, the high voltage components of the vehicle are not checked as part of an mot and I think for most people who take their vehicle in for a service and MOT every year wouldn't know and wouldn't recognise that actually when they get that MOT pass certificate, that there are certain fundamental parts of their electric vehicle that aren't being checked. And I think people are assuming that the MOT is the bare minimum standard. So, therefore, it's almost an expectation, I think, that those items are being checked and they're not. So, for example, when we look at hybrid technology, the emissions are not being checked on hybrids at the moment. They're currently exempt.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:07:20]:
Now, what we want to see is for the government to recognise and for the Department for Transport to recognise that the technology is rapidly changing and to evolve the MOT to the standard that it incorporates the additional checks that are required. Now, if we can encourage DVSA and the Department for Transport to incorporate these checks, then that would give the end consumer more confidence in their vehicle and accept that when they get that pass certificate, it's because the most important parts of that vehicle have been checked and they are safe and they are safe to carry on using that vehicle. It's bonkers that we could have a high-voltage battery that perhaps has a leak, but because that's not currently part of the mat, it won't get picked up, it won't be advised on, and the consumer may not be aware until something goes horribly wrong and the consumer says, well, why did nobody tell me? Because at the moment they're not obliged to tell you.

Liz Allan [00:08:37]:
So I suppose this takes us straight on to the, the safe, the safety aspect of, of kind of the work that you do, because you've just blown my mind with the types of organisation you're, you're working with for your different. So we talk, you know, kind of the MOT courses and the electric hybrid courses and all of the other things, all the other things that you're, you're doing. What would you say has been the most enlightening piece of training you've actually had to provide any of, you know, any of your kind of students with, when they've come in for the different training courses?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:09:21]:
The biggest impact that we have found has been first responders. So we're doing a lot with the police, the fire and rescue services. We have a very specific practical course, where we will create accident scenes in the car park involving electric vehicles, and almost try to provide a standard way on how to manage these types of scenes with this type of technology. The feedback we've had from that has been incredible. Because at the moment, there is a lot of misconception and a lot of misunderstanding, and there's no real standard, standardised process. No one's prepared to put their head above the parapet and say, actually, this is the way that you need to approach the accident scene. This is what's safe to do, this is what's not safe to do. And providing that guidance, actually, across all of the fire services.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:10:29]:
So one of the reasons we did the safety day was that we did a safety day a couple of weeks ago, which was specifically, it wasn't necessarily a training course, but it was about raising that awareness and getting people to understand that they need to be quite careful. And it's not just the fire risk that you have to consider at an accident scene. It could be a vapour risk, it could be the risk of an electric shock, it could be all of those things. So what can we do to stop that from happening? Because. And interestingly, one of the members of the fire service who was with us a couple of weeks ago said, everyone looks to the fire service as being the ones who are the experts who know and understand, whereas actually, they only know what they know. So we have to find ways of encouraging and supporting them to get that message out there. But it's the same as anything. You can't measure what hasn't happened.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:11:35]:
So you can stop something from happening, and you can give them the right advice. But there's no way of measuring or being able to determine how many people's lives you might save because of the steps that you give them and the support that you give them, and how you are able to educate them to deal with it in the most appropriate way for that specific event. So I think it's really, really important that we do more to raise more awareness. I think people are frightened certainly of electric vehicle technology. We get a lot of mechanics that come to us and say, oh, no, I'm not touching an electric vehicle. I'm not changing a wiper blade on an electric vehicle. Well, why not? Because you can. And again, there's a lot of media that perpetuates a lot of misconceptions, which gives the impression that these are really scary vehicles.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:12:36]:
And actually they're not. You just got to be able to understand them and to understand them. If you have the right training, you can have the confidence to pretty much do anything to an electric vehicle and be safe doing it. And that's what's really, really important. You know, we. We have very, very, very small class sizes, so we maybe have four people in a class and we have trainers that are stood there with rescue poles so they'll have a pole up just in case and that we are gloving them and booting them and we've got rubber mats everywhere because we want them to be as safe as possible, but also because we want to show to them actually how easy it is, how easy it is with some really, really simple and cost effective ways of being able to move that into your own workshop. And it isn't that scary.

Liz Allan [00:13:36]:
And I love the fact that you are so hands-on because I've spoken to my local garage, I think I said to you, well, well, we've been talking about how they were kind of, they had some electric vehicle training. I can't remember what level it was, but literally, it was all theory. There was a car there, but because of some insurance thing, they weren't even allowed to go through it. The kind of. The trainer was, but the technicians weren't. And to me, that just seems ridiculous.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:14:12]:
Unfortunately, there are cases where they might have a lack of insurance. We have a huge variety of electric vehicles, battery packs, and components within the workshop, but we have very specifically designed it in a way that you can't have more than two people working on a car at one time. It's all separated and segregated so that we have a lot of safety measures in place. If a trainer is busy with somebody, then there'll be another member of staff in the workshop with them. So it can be incredibly controlled. There is a way of controlling the environment to minimise and stop anything from going horrifically wrong. But yes, unfortunately there doesn't seem, there seems to be a bit of a. I wouldn't say poor training, but what I will say is, is that cheaper is not always better.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:15:16]:
And we, what we need is for candidates and technicians, especially, they need to be hands-on. They need to be doing it to be able to go away and have the confidence to do it back in their workshop. So whether that's removing and refitting components, whether that's isolating the high voltage system, they need to be doing that when they're here with us. And our training team will only sign them off to say they're okay to go and do that back at their centre when they're ready. If, for whatever reason, they're not ready or they need a bit more time, they need some refresher training, then they will go away and come back. Because what we don't ever want is for them to go away and go, well, I've done the course, I've got the Certificate, but actually I still have no idea what I'm doing. So we want them to be able to go away and be confident.

Liz Allan [00:16:12]:
Yeah, you don't want that. Like you say, you want somebody to come on one of your courses or anybody's courses when you're talking about this kind of work and understanding it. And I mean, you've got, you told me earlier and I wrote this down, you've got EVs from between 2008 and 2022, haven't you? So you've got a real range of electric vehicles that the kind of students or technicians that are coming in on your courses can actually learn about and get hands-on and under the bonnet for it.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:16:46]:
Yeah. So we've got. So our oldest vehicle is a 2008 Toyota Prius. So nickel-metal hydride technology is a complete system, so we can actually do an A-to-Z of components. So there are no seats in it anymore. It is literally all of the high-voltage cabling that is exposed. So rather than looking at pictures, we can look at the real thing. And then we go right the way through.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:17:15]:
We've got a 2021 plate Mercedes Smart car, and we've also got a 2022 plate Fiat 500E. Now, the Fiat is actually a crash-damaged vehicle because when we're doing accident scenes, we need a vehicle that has had an accident. And what's interesting about the Fiat is the airbags have been deployed, but the contact, which should break when it's involved in a collision, is in fact welded shut. So, what you would expect for it not to be a live vehicle, it is in fact still a live vehicle. And that is why we use it in our crossings, because we want to show a real-world example of what can happen. Doesn't happen very often, but it can happen. So to be mindful and to look at what other options are there to isolate the high voltage system. So, is there an emergency loop, for example, that could be in the boot?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:18:23]:
So there's lots of different things that we do. And then also, we have quite a few components as well. So we've got components from BMW, Volvo, and Toyota. So we have a wide range of different high-voltage battery packs. So we can look at the individual modules, and we can do testing on the individual modules as well. So when we're looking at our diagnostic, we can really drill into it, because you might have a battery pack that's got a thousand modules in it. So Tesla, an older Tesla, for example, has got 7180 modules, individual modules, BLIMEY blimey. So you can test them individually.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:19:07]:
So there's a way of testing them because it might just be one module, and there's no requirement to replace the whole thing. So, because part of the EV training that we do, what we want to do is demonstrate that actually there's a much more sustainable way of, a more economical way of repairing the vehicle, replacing the components that are faulty, rather than replacing the entire part itself. So that's why we have a complete range of equipment. It's very, very difficult, I think, to deliver EV training with just one vehicle and one battery pack, for example, because that isn't going to be what the technicians do. Most technicians in independent workshops will work with a huge variety of vehicle types, makes, and models. So we want to give them the best opportunity that we can to work with lots of different types of battery packs. So whether that's lithium, whether that's nickel metal hydride, so we can work through the differences as well as the similarities.

Liz Allan [00:20:23]:
So do you think that lots of MOT testers and garages in the UK are they? Are they scared to actually deal with EVs because of the fact that. Or, you know, it's. I suppose it's their lack of understanding of the fact that, you know, there's only certain companies that can take on an EV that's had an accident, isn't there? I mean, you know, we. I had a little one, but it had nothing to do with the battery. A couple of years back, not long after we'd had the car, you know, and I sent it to EV body shops, and they were fantastic. But, but there aren't many garages, from what I could see, that would take an electric vehicle and look at it component by component in that.

Liz Allan [00:21:18]:
In that battery. Do you know what I mean?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:21:21]:
I think there is a lot of. There's a big misconception around the intricacies of EV technology. So I think a lot of it actually is fear, and it's almost that fear of the unknown and what we tend to find. We might have somebody here on a Level 3 EV course, for example, and they're looking at it and they're going, yeah, I don't want to touch it, I don't. But actually, when you guide them and walk them through the process, by the end of it, they go, Oh, that's all it was. And all of a sudden. But at the moment there's a real. We seem to have a real hurdle to get over to make that transition, because at the moment, with the EV car park being so small in terms of the overall car park, our garages can't afford to say thanks, but not going to be working on that.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:22:25]:
So I think at the moment the challenge is encouraging, and we can do that by educating them, by highlighting certain safety equipment that they can have within their workshop. I think also the finances are a challenge because what we're asking them to do is we're asking them to pay for a training course that they perhaps don't feel they need at the moment. So there's perhaps a bit of a reluctance with that. So I think there's, there are hurdles to jump through. But all of the EV garages that I know are doing it incredibly, incredibly well because they've jumped in with both feet, and they are absolutely going for it, and they're making a huge success from their businesses because what they are doing at the moment almost appears to be quite niche. But as we see the transition from ICE to EV, we're going to see the car park change. So we're going to see that there will be a transformation between EV and ICE, whereas actually we're going to see almost ICE specialist garages. And Evie will become your standard guide.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:23:51]:
At the moment, I think that the early adopters are doing incredibly well and are incredibly successful because they are willing to have the additional training and they're willing to take the work on. While a lot of the slightly older generation, perhaps the ones who are coming up towards retirement, are saying, well, it doesn't matter to me because by the time 2030 comes, I'm going to be retired anyway. So again, we need to look at what we're doing with the younger generation. So what are they doing when they're on apprenticeships? What are they doing when they're in college? How can we encourage the youngest generation to adopt EV as a traditional pathway rather than looking at it as a slightly niche and unique pathway? Which is exactly what it isn't and it won't be.

Liz Allan [00:24:51]:
And actually, at the moment, what you're saying about the ones that are open-minded about electric vehicles and they're doing it well, they're leading the pack, aren't they, really? They're kind of leading, leading everybody else. And like you said, at some point, there'll be this transition for combustion engines, you know, vehicle garages, there'll be less, and then you'll have EVs as standard. Are you finding that it's trickling garages that are trickling through at the moment, or is it starting to get to the point where there's more taking EVs on board?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:25:30]:
So we're seeing a huge increase in heavy vehicle EV training, which is interesting, but actually EV training for light vehicles, so for cars, it has actually started to sort of stagnate a little bit. So, what do we do to encourage more people to do EV training? So one of the things that we've done and we've developed is CPD. So looking at ev, continuing professional development, because, of course, the technology that we had when maybe they did their training 10 years ago isn't the same technology we've got today. So. And that will be driven actually by the IMI, the Institute of the Motor Industry, but also the British Standards Institute, because what they will do is they will actually they will talk about competency. So what they will. So what the British Standards have said is that competency, they've got to have done training within the last three years. So there will be an encouragement from the standard to encourage training as an ongoing rather than a lifetime qualification.

Liz Allan [00:26:54]:
And I was going to say, that leads me back to what you were saying earlier about MOTs, because when we were talking before we started recording, you were basically, you were saying about the lift, the. The lift for the MOTs. There's. There's something being brought in now or being brought in to cover, you know, the, this. The. Is it taking heavier vehicles? Is that what you were saying?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:27:21]:
Yeah. So DVSA have asked for the. The jacking beam is to be. So at the moment, they have a weight of 1.5 tonnes that they can lift. DVSA are asking for those to be replaced with 2-ton vans to account for the heavier ones that are going on the MOT vans. So there will be an expectation that the MOT garages will have to invest and upgrade their equipment to cover the increase, because electric vehicles are significantly heavier than the internal combustion engine version. So we have to. So that has to be accounted for.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:28:06]:
I do think that we will see an EVMOT at some point in the not-too-distant future, whether that will be a class of its own or whether that will come under a car. So then we have to ask the question, well, normal mat testers, what training will they need to be able to test an electric vehicle? What is going to be? Whose responsibility is that going to be? So we have to factor in that it's quite possible we are going to see an MOT EV version. So you might, instead of it being a Class 4, you might have a Class 4E, which will be a separate MOT just for electric vehicles. So what you might find actually is that the EV garages that have specialised in EVs, they will be the first to come out with the EVmot because they will be very comfortable. They will have the equipment, they will have the technology, and they will have the training, knowledge and understanding of what they will need to carry out a full event.

Liz Allan [00:29:22]:
And that will take into account what you were saying about the high-voltage cables earlier? Will it take that into account, the kind of EV motor?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:29:36]:
Yeah, so I think, I mean, we don't know what that's going to look like. We have to remember that the MOT standard is the bare minimum standard. So at the time of the MOT test, your vehicle is in a fit and roadworthy condition and is able to go onto the road. So what we have to look at, when we look at high voltage cabling, for example, is there any damage to it? Has it got any cracks in the orange surround in the shroud? We look at the battery pack itself. Is there any corrosion? Is there any visible damage to it? So we won't be able to identify on an MOT if there is something, necessarily something wrong with it. But what we can do is a visual check to see if it doesn't look right. If the charging docket is sparking and it's got spark flying out of it at the moment on a nightmare T that isn't checked. But if it was on an EV MOT, then perhaps the MOT test will look at that and go, probably shouldn't be doing that. So we have to be mindful that it is a bare minimum standard.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:30:42]:
However, it is the consumer's responsibility to make sure that their vehicle is fit and safe to be on the road. The difficulty is that, as a society, we assume that because our car passes an MOT, our expectation is that the car is absolutely fine. That's not always necessarily the case. So we have to be mindful and we have to provide that education and that training and that awareness actually to say, well, I don't just want an mat, but I want IT servicing and I want a battery health check on it, because I want to have complete confidence in my vehicle that it's going to do all of the things that I would like it to do and it's going to keep me fit and safe on the road. So I think it does have to evolve, it does have to change. What that will look like will obviously be determined by the Department for Transport and the DVSA. One would hope that they take on board. What we're having now, for example, and some of the support from discussions with DVSA, one would hope that they would take some of those ideas on board.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:32:00]:
And what we don't want is for it to become a huge cost to the MAT station and to the individual MAT testers as well. Because while the fee is fixed and has been for some time, the fee system will have to change, I think, to get more, to encourage more MOT stations to consider the possibility of offering EV MOTs. If we can't increase the fee, then there's going to be a lot more reluctance to actually do anything about it. So I think there needs to be some conversations and perhaps they're already happening, but there needs to be some more conversations about what that looks like and how we move forward with that.

Liz Allan [00:32:45]:
And can I just ask? So we've talked about EV specifically there, but you kind of said right at the beginning about the fact that hybrid vehicles and their emissions don't fall under the current MOT. And, when I'm talking about hybrid, I know that you've got the plug-in hybrid and you've got kind of like the. That's kind of what I would call an ICE hybrid. So will. How will that work? Because if we're talking about EVs, the plug-in hybrid has got that, you know, it's got the petrol tank in it or, you know, whatever. But then you've got. Not the plug-in hybrid.

Liz Allan [00:33:26]:
Sorry, it's a plug-in hybrid. Will have just, you know, kind of. I know it will, won't it, though? Yeah, you'll have that. But then you've got the hybrid that's just got wet fuel with something, you know, like I say, you're the one who knows this stuff. How, how do you see this moving forward?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:33:45]:
So I think. So hybrid emission testing is a really interesting one. Naturally, there's no requirement to test an EV because it does not emit any emissions to the atmosphere. Hybrids, on the other hand, are. So when we talk about a mild hybrid, for example, at the moment they are exempt emissions on an MOT, but a mild hybrid may only actually have 30, 40 miles, adding to the range of, potentially, if it's a transit custom, for example, it might be a mild hybrid and it's a 2.5 litre vehicle.

Liz Allan [00:34:28]:
Yeah.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:34:29]:
But at the moment, it's exempt from emissions because what the Department of Transport did was they said, actually, we're just going to make all of them exempt because it's much easier than trying to determine whether or not a hybrid should be tested. In my view, they should be tested because they are creating emissions. So it seems reasonable to test them so that we can ensure that they meet the same standards and the same criteria as petrol and diesel vehicles. So that's my professional and personal opinion. But at the moment, there seems to be a real reluctance to actually change that system. So at the moment you're absolutely right. If it's a self-charging hybrid and we have no way of knowing how hard the hybrid battery is working and how hard the petrol is working, then actually, you could have a hybrid that isn't using the hybrid battery at all and is working solely off petrol. So then it's only right that we should be checking the emissions on all of them, and they should all meet the same criteria.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:35:45]:
And that's it.

Liz Allan [00:35:49]:
Yeah. And that is somehow far? Because I'm very conscious of our time here. How far ahead do you see that being? Is this a 2030, 2035, or is it earlier or what? Where do you see that?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:36:05]:
I think it's got to be within the next three years. I think we have got to see a transition. If we want to make 2030 work, we are going to have to see a transition between now and 2028, 2029, because we have to be prepared, and we have to prepare the MAT test stations, we have to prepare the testers, and it isn't something that happens overnight. So the checks will be brought in, and we will start to see some momentum in that. What that looks like, like I say, we don't know, but I think we will see an evolution of the mat in the next three years.

Liz Allan [00:36:48]:
So just because I know that you've got a dash in a minute. If we. If we kind of. If you looked back. No, actually, if you look forward, if there's one thing that you could change about the sector to make it better, what would that one thing be?

Amy Jane Marsden [00:37:13]:
I think there needs to be clear communication, better awareness, and better understanding. We need to be more open and honest when we have our conversations. We need to be more open and honest about what those conversations are and what they mean. I think there's a huge amount of misconception in mainstream media. Certainly, on social media, we see a lot of a car that gets on fire, and the first thing everybody says is that it's an electric vehicle, whereas 99% of the time it actually isn't. So we're seeing a huge amount of misinformation, and I think the only way to combat that is to keep talking. We need to keep talking, and we need to have sensible conversations, as you and I are now, about what this actually means and what we can do to make it better and to have those conversations, I think, will make the difference. And I think it's important that we keep talking, we keep having these types of conversations, because that's what will change the landscape as we move forward towards 2030.

Liz Allan [00:38:27]:
I think that's a perfect place to stop. Do you know, there's so much we could we could cover about skills, leadership and culture.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:38:37]:
We'll do this again.

Liz Allan [00:38:38]:
We will, definitely. Well, we're just. Yeah, absolutely. Well, but listen, Amy, it's been amazing talking to you. I just want to say thank you so much for your time. Just fascinating, and like I say, you totally flip it. You know, you're a brilliant presenter, and just being able to put that passion forward. Really, really, really appreciate it.

Liz Allan [00:39:06]:
So, so thank you.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:39:08]:
Thank you, Liz, thank you for having me. And I'm looking forward to welcoming you here at the centre very, very, very soon.

Liz Allan [00:39:15]:
Oh, I'm definitely coming up there. So for all of you who are watching and listening, check out Pro ProTech Academy. I'll put all the links in the show notes, and you'll have Amy's kind of link for LinkedIn. But look, I just want to say to everybody watching and listening, thank you. Please spread the word. Check us out on LinkedIn. We've got an Electric Evolution LinkedIn page. We're on YouTube.

Liz Allan [00:39:41]:
If you're watching it, you're going to know that we're all over the place. So please share this with everybody. And to everybody watching and listening and thanks to Amy as well, I'm going to say thanks to all of you. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Amy Jane Marsden [00:39:53]:
Thank you. Bye. Bye.