Episode 168: Liz Allan and Shamala Gadgil - Coventry’s Blueprint for Smarter, Accessible EV Infrastructure

Episode 168: Liz Allan and Shamala Gadgil -  Coventry’s Blueprint for Smarter, Accessible EV Infrastructure.

Liz Allan is joined by Shamala Gadgil, Director of Decarbonising Transport Consultancy Ltd and Senior Programme Manager supporting Coventry City Council. Shamala has spent years shaping one of the UK’s most ambitious EV and transport programmes, delivering practical innovation that genuinely improves people’s lives. 

Together, Liz and Shamala discuss Coventry’s journey towards becoming one of the most forward-thinking transport authorities in the country, from running four Charge Point Operator contracts and delivering more than 2,300 public charging spaces since 2018 to transforming the city’s entire bus fleet into a near-fully electric operation. They discuss Coventry’s Local Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (LEVI) pilot models, the challenges of accessibility and PAS 1899 compliance, how to repurpose local-authority land to support residents without driveways, and why multimodal hubs are the future of sustainable travel. 

Shamala also shares her work on dynamic wireless charging, inclusive design for disabled and mobility-restricted EV drivers, and how local authorities, CPOs, manufacturers, and central government must collaborate to get this right. 

Shamala Gadgil Bio:

Shamala Gadgil is the Director of Decarbonising Transport Consultancy Ltd and a Senior Programme Manager working with Coventry City Council. With more than 30 years’ experience as a civil engineer, and a researcher currently completing her PhD, she brings a rare combination of technical expertise, holistic thinking and innovation to the UK's transport transition. She has led Coventry’s major EV programmes, including rapid charging for taxis, extensive on-street charging schemes, and the city’s transformation into an all-electric bus City. Her work is centred on public health, accessibility, and long-term sustainability, and she plays an active national role as Chair of the Transport Technology Forum’s EV Charging Infrastructure Working Group. 

Quote of the Episode:
“Everything that I'm doing is about improving people's lives; reducing emissions, supporting public health, and creating transport systems that work for everyone.” – Shamala Gadgil

Shamala Gadgil Links:
Coventry City Council Website: https://www.coventry.gov.uk
LinkedI

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:01]:
Hi everybody and welcome back to Electric Evolution. This week I've got a woman, I just call her a superwoman. I have Shamala Gadgil, and she is the Director of Decarbonising Transport Consultancy Ltd. She's also the Senior Programme Manager and a consultant to Coventry City Council. And I've met her recently, and we've talked so much. Shamala, thank you ever so much for joining me.

Shamala Gadgil [00:00:28]:
Thank you for asking me to join you, Liz.

Liz Allan [00:00:31]:
Now let's just start because, like I say, you've got so many things going on in Coventry at the moment, haven't you? Let's start by just giving everybody a little bit of background about who you are, what you did before working for Coventry and how you actually moved into this area.

Shamala Gadgil [00:00:54]:
Yeah, okay. Okay. So, my background is in civil engineering. My background, I've been working in the engineering field for, I don't know, just over 30 years. And I started the Coventry sort of job, if you like, or the post in 2015. I was working on highway, highway projects. They were always. But the thing is, though, I.

Shamala Gadgil [00:01:29]:
So I'm also doing a PhD. I like doing research, I like doing new things. I look at holistic. It's a holistic approach. I don't, I mean, usually engineers do have tunnel vision. They are very focused; they only do one thing. But I also have an architecture background, you know, I like to see how things fit in the environment. So I've always looked at what the central government is looking out for.

Shamala Gadgil [00:02:02]:
We are part of the Zemo partnership, where you know, Karunji is a member, and I am also a member who attends many of their working groups. So knowing what is going on and then what funding opportunities there are, I usually tend to find things that need to fit in that transport space, that landscape. So, in 2017, this transition side was starting to become something that transport was talking about. It was. Well, yes, you know, that's why my company is called Decarbonising Transport. And I then got involved in the electrification of transport because I am very passionate about removing emissions, public health, you know, it's looking at it again, holistic is what I'm talking about. So I'm also doing a PhD in the same field, which I started in 2020. I am now in my sixth year, looking hopefully to go into the thesis pending stage.

Shamala Gadgil [00:03:19]:
But basically what I'm getting at is, you know, I like to do innovative. Well, I like to find solutions, innovative solutions too. And any kind of challenges that come up within the transport industry.

Liz Allan [00:03:37]:
And you do. And you're doing this. I mean, we're going to talk through some of the stuff that you've been doing because, you know, the innovation that you're bringing into the sector, because you're also the chair of the Transport Technology Forums. EV Charging Infrastructure Working Group. That's not a long phrase, is it? You know, it is.

Shamala Gadgil [00:03:59]:
We started that working group on September 21st, and we have been, you know, again, it's a voluntary post. We wrote a starter guide for local authorities to roll out EV charging infrastructure. I mean, Coventry has got the largest network outside of London. We have got. The City Council has delivered over 2,300 spaces since 2018, running four contracts, managing four contracts. So we have got four. Well, three CPOs, but four contracts charge one operator. So, in you know, looking from that side, you know, it is, it is, it is, it is something that I am quite, quite passionate about.

Liz Allan [00:05:01]:
And you're very good, and you're very good at doing this and putting your fingers in lots of pies. I don't know how you manage it, but, but let's, let's start a little bit. So, so like you said, you've got, you know, you've got all of these charges in. And when you. We kind of. You and I have talked about this, and I haven't talked about this on the podcast, but we've set up a sister company called Chargewise CX or should I say that Full Circle CI has a sister company now called ChargeWise CX. 

Liz Allan [00:05:31]:
And this is kind of identifying chargers on the platform. And when I saw Coventry, my eyes just popped out because I was just like, oh, my God, she's. Look at all the these, look at all these charges that are, that are in Coventry City Council area. It just blew my mind. So you've been so proactive, especially with LEVI. So, Local Electric Vehicle Infrastructure. For those of you who don't know this terminology, how did the. So you've got a note, you've got a pilot, we've got.

Liz Allan [00:06:01]:
You've got so many things going on. Where do you want to start? Where should we, where should we, where should we start? Should we start talking about the kind of? The pilot or. Because, I mean, you've even done stuff on how many electric buses have you. We haven't even talked about this before.

Shamala Gadgil [00:06:17]:
Electric Bus City. That is one of my projects. That's what I meant when I said I look up, look at the holistic side of it, you know. When we were talking before, I did say, for example, you know, you are, we want to reduce trip mileage on the highway network. We don't want to swap one EV for one petrol or diesel vehicle. That is absolutely not sustainable going forward. It has a huge impact on many different disciplines within the transport sector. But you can also tell people just like that, oh, don't have a second car or a third car or you can't, you know, you just can't do it. So you have to go about this in a different way.

Shamala Gadgil [00:07:04]:
One of the things that I felt was that if you provide them with different modes of transportation, then you don't have to tell them anything, they will themselves. Because it's not easy to keep two or three cars in a household. It is convenient, yes. If people understand why you are doing something, you know, it's so important to make sure that they understand why something needs to be done. Then people will bear an element of inconvenience. They're okay, they're not too, they won't resist. So you need to first let them know why you're doing something, but then also provide them with solutions. It can't just be, you must do this, you must do that.

Shamala Gadgil [00:07:53]:
So that is something that then prompted that pilot project. Because there are three models in there. You know, accessibility is also very important. I mean, some of the charges, you know, they are not accessible. But then, if you're putting them in an existing environment, okay, funding forms part of this. You don't have funding to make major changes. So when you're talking about bringing people who don't have an off-street parking facility on the same page as people who do, then you are going to have to provide charges where they live. That means curbside charges.

Shamala Gadgil [00:08:36]:
That again means in an existing highway environment, there are many footpaths or pavements that are not wide enough. There are many roads that are not wide enough either, you know, so then when you do find that they are, that they can, we can facilitate charges there, that accessibility piece becomes difficult because you don't have the space. You know, you are just about managing to provide charges where people park on the road. If you then start to look at making the space accessible, that's what I'm talking about, by the way, not the product. All the products are accessible products.

Liz Allan [00:09:20]:
So all of the charges.

Shamala Gadgil [00:09:22]:
Yeah, so the height and all of that. It's absolutely correct because it forms part of the tender documents, you know, that requirement. So it is not the product accessibility I'm talking about. Space accessibility. It does become a challenge. Complying with pass 1899 is very, very, very challenging on a road network or a curbside charging model.

Liz Allan [00:09:50]:
So I think we probably need to. Let's just step back a second because I think for those people who are watching and listening, who might not understand some of these terminology, I think maybe, I think maybe let's, let's, let's talk about PAS in a minute, but let's go back to the different funding parts because you've been doing this job for a long time now and there's been, you know, so we've got. So this main LEVI funding at the moment is the local electric vehicle infrastructure funding, but you have obviously managed to get. I'm assuming. I'm saying obviously, I'm assuming you've had a number of funding pots coming through since you've been imposed.

Shamala Gadgil [00:10:28]:
Yeah, yeah.

Liz Allan [00:10:28]:
So, so what have the different funding pots been to do? And then we can kind of come forward to the accessibility piece, and the kind of. And the pasta.

Shamala Gadgil [00:10:39]:
Agreed, agreed. Sorry about that. It's going off tangent.

Liz Allan [00:10:44]:
Well, yeah, but I'm, I'm the same as you, so we just. Yeah, yeah, so.

Shamala Gadgil [00:10:48]:
So there was a funding part back in 2016, 2017, called ULEV, which is the Ultra Low Emission Vehicle Taxi Infrastructure project.

Liz Allan [00:10:59]:
Yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:11:00]:
And Coventry City Council applied for it for 39 rapid charges. We were successful in securing that funding. So I then went out to tender, and we had a chargebar operator who. Well, we started the installation of those 39 x 50-kilowatt chargers. Rapid chargers. They are installed at locations where the taxi drivers had mentioned when we had carried out the survey that they take breaks.

Liz Allan [00:11:38]:
So.

Shamala Gadgil [00:11:39]:
And again, you know what I mentioned before, they are curbside. I've only got maybe two or three locations where they are within a car park, but all the others are on street because that's where they tend to stop. Yes. So that's one funding part. While that funding part was there, another funding part came available, which is the On Oaks, which is on the Street Residential charge point scheme ORCs. I applied for that in 2018, in 2019, in 2020. 2021. And we were successful in securing those funding parts every time.

Shamala Gadgil [00:12:22]:
Every time. I delivered those charges every year within the time frame that you had to do it.

Liz Allan [00:12:32]:
And how long, how many did you? How many were they? Were they. Were they kind of like the lower, the lower kind of power charges, Kind of like the 7kW?

Shamala Gadgil [00:12:41]:
They are 7kW. Some are 11, some are 22. Some are 3.5 lamp post charges, for example, you know. So those charges were delivered from 2019 to 2022 as part of the Oaks project. And I have got three contracts for that in 2022, they became whatever funding was left in that pot, they became Levi that you mentioned. So the DFT published the local electric vehicle charging infrastructure strategy, where they said they want 300,000 public charging stations available by 2030. And to that end, here is a 450 million pound pot. And from that, then OZEV, which is the unit that DFT have set up office for zero emission vehicles.

Shamala Gadgil [00:13:52]:
They used to be Olav before when I had the taxi infrastructure.

Liz Allan [00:13:56]:
Yes.

Shamala Gadgil [00:13:57]:
Funding for OLEV was office for low-emission vehicles, which became a zero-emission vehicle. They manage these funding streams, and they just wanted to find out, you know, some innovative solutions because they were also aware that at some point, curbside is going to be saturated. So they asked authorities to come up with an innovative solution. And that's where Coventry's Levi pilot comes in. I'm also part of the working group on electric vehicles. Well, the Levi working group is the Ozevs working group. But the pilot came about because of that and where we submitted an application to say that we want to do three, well, develop three models. But these models are for 2030 onwards, if you like.

Shamala Gadgil [00:15:01]:
So what these models are supposed to be doing is repurposing existing assets that local authorities have.

Liz Allan [00:15:13]:
So the charges here themselves are that we're talking about the land that the local authorities have.

Shamala Gadgil [00:15:21]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:15:22]:
So the car parks, those are, those are what you're saying, when you mean assets, don't you?

Shamala Gadgil [00:15:26]:
That. Exactly that, exactly that. Local authorities don't have just one building; they have lots of them. They provide services such as, for example, libraries. And they also have the schools. I know some schools have become academies, but otherwise schools, they have things like children's services, their family hubs, those kinds of things which are not in the main council houses, if you like. And a lot of these services have car parks. So during the daytime, great, you know, they are using it.

Shamala Gadgil [00:16:07]:
But at nighttime, all these car parks tend to be locked down. They're behind the gates. Yeah. And nobody's parked in there. And also these services quite often, and I'm not saying everywhere, I'm just generalising it quite often. And you find them in residential areas, you know, so they, they, they don't tend to be in like business areas or. No, you know, leisure areas. But leisure is also part of council service.

Liz Allan [00:16:41]:
Yeah, yeah, we've got one in Reading, a leisure centre. That's. There's a big car park there.

Shamala Gadgil [00:16:46]:
Exactly. And quite again, quite often all these car parks are either beyond the gates or barriers, something like that, you know, so. So then provide a secure, you know, it's a secure car park. I've done so many charges on the street. Okay. I have done so many consultations as part of that process because local authorities cannot just go and install something on the highway. The Highways Act, the legislation says that if you're going to do something like that, you have to consult. I have done so many consultations.

Shamala Gadgil [00:17:21]:
One of the themes that quite often came out was I don't want to park my car, which, you know, at the time that far away from my house.

Liz Allan [00:17:36]:
Yes, yeah. Or I don't want to walk 10 minutes.

Shamala Gadgil [00:17:39]:
Yeah, yeah. But if you were to give them a secure car park, then the narrative changes slightly. Hence, the thought that you should repurpose these. Have a car park management system, have smart access egress, set a car park management strategy in place so that in the morning, the car park is empty for the service area to open and provide that service. But as soon as the service finishes, you open that up to the residents. And I'm not saying that everybody will be interested in this, but there will be residents who will want this type of service. So that was one model that we sort of put forward. The second model was open car parks that are managed by the council.

Shamala Gadgil [00:18:44]:
Develop that into a multimodal hub. As I mentioned earlier, you can't ask people to just give up their vehicles. So provide them with different modes of transport. But then there are surface car parks, so there is you. There is a possibility, not everywhere, but you need to explore if you can make them self-sustainable. Now I was going to say.

Liz Allan [00:19:13]:
Do you want to explain?

Shamala Gadgil [00:19:14]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:19:15]:
Because I don't think we've really gone into that much detail about what is a multimodal hub. You and I talked about this before we started recording. But. So what is a multimodal hub? Just to kind of explain.

Shamala Gadgil [00:19:27]:
So when I mentioned that you can't tell people what we can do as a council, is that you provide them with measures. So multimodal or E mobility, if you like, what that means is you provide them with different modes of transport, such as electric cars as part of a car club, electric bikes, electric mopeds, you know, you make them available in that compound so that when somebody comes there, depending on where they are going, they can choose. So you give people the choice, and if they know the choice is there, they will give up their second, third car, you know, because quite often those cars are there for convenience purposes. And as I mentioned again earlier, if people know why you're doing something, they will come on board. Yeah. Even if it is slightly inconvenient. Because of those inconveniences, you know, are forgotten after two, three months because they become the norm.

Liz Allan [00:20:42]:
It's building trust, isn't it?

Shamala Gadgil [00:20:43]:
Yeah, it is indeed. So that is the second model, and then what I meant by self-sustainable as well, you know, provide solar canopies if you can generate energy on site, store it in a battery and use that energy for the charges that will be there in that car park.

Liz Allan [00:21:06]:
Yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:21:07]:
Now I have done one project like that. In 2018, DFT announced another funding pot under a better deal for buses, which was called U Lab.

Liz Allan [00:21:23]:
Okay.

Shamala Gadgil [00:21:23]:
U Lab is ultra-low-emission buses. As part of that, we liaised with National Express, who have a bus depot in Coventry, and they have a fleet of about 170 buses, a mix of double-deckers and single-deckers. And we decided that we will submit an application for 10 buses to be electric under the ULEB part. Cenex helped us to develop the bid. And but in there, as I said, I'm a bit cheeky sometimes. I, you know, I feel that asking you doesn't get.

Liz Allan [00:22:14]:
Exactly.

Shamala Gadgil [00:22:15]:
So I said Look, let's do a self-generated or self-sustainable project. So we also submitted for funding as part of the infrastructure, where we would have gotten 75% of funding. Solar on the roof of the bus depot and battery storage facility for those 10 buses. Cool. So we had all the calculations done, and we knew how many we needed. Anyway, we submitted and believe it or not, we got the funding. So now we have the bus depot with a solar canopy and solar panels on the roof. They have now got a battery storage facility.

Shamala Gadgil [00:23:06]:
The panels generate enough energy for 10 buses to operate throughout the year. That is what. So that then also made me think that if you've got open car parks. Yeah. There is an opportunity. What you need to do is follow and explore different options. If you are able to provide it, it becomes a self-sustained project and has less reliance on the grid. And so many that don't we.

Shamala Gadgil [00:23:43]:
Exactly. So that was that part of the project. Now you know, our first 10 electric buses became operational end of August 2020.

Liz Allan [00:23:56]:
Wow.

Shamala Gadgil [00:23:56]:
This is when the all-electric Bus City announced the DFT announced the Electric Bus City project. Again, we applied. Now, one thing I need to explain is that Coventry is not a transport authority.

Liz Allan [00:24:19]:
Right. Okay.

Shamala Gadgil [00:24:20]:
It's a unitary authority. So the transport authority is Transport for West Midlands.

Liz Allan [00:24:26]:
Okay.

Shamala Gadgil [00:24:26]:
Which is the West Midlands Combined Authority.

Liz Allan [00:24:29]:
Right. It's very confusing, isn't it?

Shamala Gadgil [00:24:33]:
We are seven authorities within the West Midlands.

Liz Allan [00:24:36]:
Yes.

Shamala Gadgil [00:24:37]:
And the Sunsport is managed by Transport for West Midlands, which is TfWM.

Liz Allan [00:24:44]:
Yeah, yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:24:45]:
Acronyms. We are very fond of acronyms. Of course, yes. So they submitted the application. So two cities were picked, and Coventry was one of them. So we have been doing that now. We will be a city with all-electric buses by next year. Wow.

Shamala Gadgil [00:25:15]:
I think we've got roughly 30 buses left to electrify. So there are left.

Liz Allan [00:25:24]:
So how many have you got now, then?

Shamala Gadgil [00:25:26]:
204 electric buses.

Liz Allan [00:25:30]:
Oh, my God. Can you come and talk to Redding, please? I think we've only got about half a dozen.

Shamala Gadgil [00:25:34]:
Yeah, this is about. It's also, you know, when we, when we are doing this, there is always a match funding requirement and our match funding has always come from the private sector.

Liz Allan [00:25:49]:
Right, fair enough.

Shamala Gadgil [00:25:50]:
Not from the council.

Liz Allan [00:25:52]:
Yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:25:53]:
So all my projects.

Liz Allan [00:25:54]:
Good job.

Shamala Gadgil [00:25:54]:
Yeah. All the orcs and the Levi match funding is from the private sector. And the third part of the pilot project was wireless charging. Now, if you think about it, accessibility, what is the government trying to do? What is DFT trying to do? All this funding is not for something that the private sector can do. Local authorities don't need to get involved. The reason why they need to be involved, and yes, it is their responsibility. Because we've been asked. Oh, you know, we don't.

Shamala Gadgil [00:26:33]:
You don't provide petrol pumps, you know. So why are you involved with this? No, we are, because of the constituents. You have got two, three types of constituents. One that has garages and drives, driveways. One that lives above leisure, above retail units, apartments, those types. And the others are properties that don't have an off-street parking facility. They are all the council's constituents now, people who can hack driveways and everything; they can do their own charges, not a problem. But the ones who don't have driveways.

Shamala Gadgil [00:27:21]:
Yes, you now have a duty, a responsibility to provide charges for them. The government has given that funding. Now, quite often you find that electricity, those bits are very expensive and the private sector is not happy to provide that funding because some locations can be astronomical. So that is what this funding should be used for. Where the private sector doesn't want to or can't, because there is no return on their investment. That is where this funding should be used. The government is granting funding. That means they are not asking it back.

Shamala Gadgil [00:28:10]:
Therefore, you need to work in partnership with your ChargePoint operator. So it's those bits that make a successful delivery of this, but it's that accessibility, that's what this is all about. And Motability Group is the largest fleet operator in the UK. But even they themselves are now on this path of electrification. They lease their vehicles, but there is still a group of people who are unable to use the current charging infrastructure cables. They're not able to lift them.

Liz Allan [00:28:59]:
Yeah. Very heavy.

Shamala Gadgil [00:29:01]:
Yes. As part of this pilot, the third model is an R&D model because we know plug-in charging works. The first two models is just application, you know, it's different applications, you know, just, just have a different way of. But we know those charges work. This, this third part, is to do with wireless charging, providing wireless pads in disabled bays. So we've got four disabled bays in the city centre. We are going to procure, if possible, vehicles from the Motability group. Four vehicles.

Shamala Gadgil [00:29:51]:
And they will be retrofitted with the receivers. Yes. Afterwards, we will work with Coventry University, and we will structure a survey because we will be trialling this, getting that group of people typically to trial and see how that works. Right now, at this minute, I don't know what constitutes success for that.

Liz Allan [00:30:26]:
Third.

Shamala Gadgil [00:30:27]:
Model that the central government will accept, but the output from that third model is that there is a three-way thing. What needs to come out is possibly a mandate for highway authorities to install wireless pads, a mandate for OEMs to have a base within their base specification of a vehicle, a space for a receiver.

Liz Allan [00:31:07]:
Yeah. So the manufacturer.

Shamala Gadgil [00:31:09]:
Yeah, that's all you want. The manufacturers of vehicles, electric vehicles and then you've got the technology provider. So you've got to have this, you.

Liz Allan [00:31:22]:
Know, this collaboration really isn't it?

Shamala Gadgil [00:31:25]:
Absolutely. So, what I'm doing, based on what constitutes success, with the help of Coventry City Council and Motability, there will be many stakeholders in this. We will design that survey structure and then that survey. I don't even know right at this minute whether it's going to be a six-month data. They will need one year of data. They will need what? But I am hoping that the Motability group will help us there with promoting this on their system so that their users can take part in this trial.

Liz Allan [00:32:05]:
So when you're saying that, you're saying so for four vehicles potentially. So are we also looking at? Because if you look at four, just four individuals in those four vehicles, I suppose they have to be very specific, specifically fitted for those people. I suppose in my head I was thinking, so who would you be able to have more than four people? So you'd have like a 12-month trial.

Shamala Gadgil [00:32:34]:
Sorry, Liz, what I meant by I don't know yet how that is structured is that we might turn around and say to the four right, you're going to have these for four days. We would like you to trial. Yeah, I don't know, maybe four times a day because we need to, I don't know, we need to collect the energy utilisation, or how many times is it the mileage we are looking at? What constitutes it? Is it only the number of people? So what, what says that? Oh, that is required because we have got this data. I need to understand that because I don't know yet. So we will be speaking to DFT to ask and understand that designing that architecture of the survey, it might not be just one thread, we might have multiple threads that we might have to do over a period before that becomes a yes, we have successfully delivered that piece of. Or that model.

Liz Allan [00:33:44]:
But whatever that is. And we talked about this before, about this kind of informing the future standards for kind of wireless charging and, and integrating and making sure that level of inclusivity for people who, you know, who are, you know, are limited mobility, etc. Etc. That they can, they can charge. Because you know, I said to you before, didn't I? I worked in Coventry for a little while, and I remember going. And I'd not had rev for too long and I went to a hub and it was, it was on a curb, you know, so there were probably about half a dozen ultra rapid charges there but the curb was probably, you know, I'm sorry for those who are listening, I'm showing, you know, it was a pretty tall curb to be honest. And there was a woman in a kind of mobility. It was like a transit van, and she and I got talking because I just saw her.

Liz Allan [00:34:51]:
She wasn't in a wheelchair, but she was; her mobility was so limited that she was on crutches, and she couldn't really manage on crutches that well, you know. And we were having this conversation, so I helped her try, you know, because trying to just get, you know, even if you've got. She did have quite a lot of limited mobility, but not enough to put her in a wheelchair, just getting around and getting the cable and plugging it in. And she said this was the only van that she could have, and she didn't really want one to be that big, you know. And we just were chatting about it, and I actually just thought, my God, this is, this is really hard. You know, somebody in a wheelchair would not have been able to access.

Shamala Gadgil [00:35:37]:
This is what I meant. You know, in car parks, you know, right now we are supposed to provide a percentage of spaces for disabled bays. Yeah. When I mentioned earlier, right at the beginning, I mentioned a standard, which is PAS 1899, that is to do with having accessible space. So, like disabled bays, you know, everybody would probably know how they are. They have got this, a cross-hatched area on either side so that if it is a wheelchair, they are not, you know, they have got access. Basically.

Liz Allan [00:36:12]:
Yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:36:13]:
Now you're not. So in a car park. Absolutely. This is possible. Yeah. And you must provide a past 1899 compliant space. Not all ,though. This is where everything is like all spaces should be like that, but it doesn't work.

Shamala Gadgil [00:36:33]:
Everybody needs to be pragmatic about this. So when we say 10% spaces should be disabled based on a car park design, similarly, you can then turn around and say, oh, 10% needs to be pass compliant or those 10% that you have made disabled, based turn down and say 10% of that must have charges, period. Similarly with this wireless pad, I'm hoping once we collect all this data, you know, other things will also hopefully happen. So ultimately, what I want really is a car manufacturer to provide a receiver. Obviously, there will need to be standards. Yes, it will take a little bit of time. You need to start somewhere, and that's where we are starting. But ultimately, cars will have receivers, and similar to what I just mentioned about car parks, there will be a percentage of the base with wireless charging being made available.

Shamala Gadgil [00:37:50]:
It becomes more a planning thing that they would, you know, when they have the local plans that they would put in there and it can become a supplementary planning document SPD that this is what. Because planning documents are updated at. Some are three, some are five or you know, I'm not a planning person, but I know because sometimes I have an input in that.

Liz Allan [00:38:20]:
Yeah, yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:38:21]:
So this is the ultimately this is what I'm hoping will happen, you know. So this data hopefully should kick start something in that field. I mean, it's not just for that group. You know, as you just mentioned, the lady you saw, you know, she wasn't.

Liz Allan [00:38:42]:
Disabled in a wheelchair, but she had very, very limited.

Shamala Gadgil [00:38:46]:
About old people.

Liz Allan [00:38:48]:
Yeah, we all get old, don't we?

Shamala Gadgil [00:38:50]:
Fragile people. They might not be able to lift those cables of 50-kilowatt or 300-kilowatt charges, you know. So yeah, it is, it is going to be for them as well, you know. So I think the wireless charging element, you know, you can't make them just for mobility, you know, if you've got a mobility issue, then only you can know. They can't be like disabled bays, but they need to be bays where someone fragile can also go and charge.

Liz Allan [00:39:34]:
I mean, it's like.

Liz Allan [00:39:39]:
It's a. It's a jigsaw puzzle, isn't it? There are so many pieces, and you're good at that, you're good at these jigsaw puzzles. I was going to say because, you know, it's, it's a bit like some chargepoint operators have now retrofitted their chargers that originally didn't have cable management, you know, because they've realized that people are finding it difficult, you know, and I'm saying the charge point operators, it might be the manufacturers, you know, because you've got to bring the manufacturers into the. This. Yeah, but I remember when I was working up in Coventry, I was actually travelling to Nuneaton, and it was, I think it was. I mean, this is a couple of years ago now, and it was so cold. I think I might have told you, I've told. I might have said this once before on the, on the podcast and it wasn't one of. It wasn't a council charger, it was a private, private charger, but it was about minus four when I got there.

Liz Allan [00:40:25]:
I got there at some ridiculous. I think I'd say off at like half six. And I ended up using a charger that I don't normally use, but it was so, so cold that I slipped, and the charger didn't have cable management. It was one of the ones. Well, yeah, there aren't many that don't these days, but you might suss out who it was. And my arm slipped, and I whacked myself in the mouth with the massive cable. I thought I was gonna have a fat. Actually, that's even just for someone who's.

Liz Allan [00:40:56]:
I see myself as relatively able-bodied, you know, might not look at it occasionally, but, you know, actually for anybody, something like that, with such a weight it needs, you know, it. Because I think it's. In some ways, the retrofitting of the cable management systems has made a big difference. Just taking a little bit of that weight off.

Shamala Gadgil [00:41:17]:
Yeah, well, yes, it is. I mean, all, all of these solutions, you know, there are so many solutions now coming into the market because you are. We are expressing what the challenges are. You know, in a lot of events and conferences, there is one of the things that Covid did, which was really good, which was having these, you know, even online webinars and online conferences where people come together and you are able to tell, you know, what challenges are and then they go away and they come up with solutions. You know, before you know it, you've got a solution for something that you were talking about, I don't know, six months ago. So this is quite an evolving process still, and it will continue to evolve, but finding solutions. You know, like you mentioned right at the beginning, when we started the podcast about the dynamic wireless charging, that is also something that I'm looking, I'm doing at the moment. We did a feasibility study.

Shamala Gadgil [00:42:21]:
We got a consortium together, and we wanted to find out if we had an electric lane, and what impact it would have on the grid system.

Liz Allan [00:42:33]:
Yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:42:34]:
So we got the funding from the energy sector to do this feasibility study. If anybody is interested, this is available on National Grid's website to have a look. And the conclusion was that there is actually no detrimental impact because nobody is charging at the same time. They pass over the charges.

Liz Allan [00:43:16]:
Yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:43:17]:
But what it also demonstrated was that it is very beneficial for the service areas that have large vehicles and that do repeated routes, like bus operators, like refuse vehicles, that they handle a set route. And what we found, because one of our consortium partners was National Grid, sorry, National Express.

Liz Allan [00:43:58]:
Yes.

Shamala Gadgil [00:44:01]:
It was at the same time that we were looking to get the energy connection for the depot for the all-electric bus city; they needed up to 6 megawatt connection. Wow. But if you say you had this electric lane dynamic wireless charging, that means you have a receiver under the bus, and on the road, you have these coils that provide the charging as the vehicle passes over these coils or these embedded wireless chargers. What that did was it reduced the. It can, sorry, these are the outputs. Basically, the results. It can reduce the battery size that is required. And because it is constantly being charged when the vehicle comes into the depot, the state of charge is healthy.

Liz Allan [00:45:14]:
So it just needs a top-up back at the depot.

Shamala Gadgil [00:45:17]:
Then you don't need such a large connection in the depot. There are many benefits to doing this, and one of the things we found was that larger vehicles are beneficial from a business case perspective. The normal cars that we drive, you know, no, if there are no buses and only normal cars. No, there is no, you know, you don't need it. But then you also. It will be very beneficial for delivery people.

Liz Allan [00:45:51]:
Yes. So DHL, Royal Mail.

Shamala Gadgil [00:45:54]:
Yeah. Because right now, that is a challenge for authorities. You know how. Where do we, because sometimes depots, if you're in a depot, when you're providing charging units, it displaces the vehicles because you need space for the chargers.

Liz Allan [00:46:13]:
Yeah, yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:46:14]:
So again, if you have something like this, there is a, another company that is doing similar. You know, it's not wireless, but it is something that is. The charger is in a parking space.

Liz Allan [00:46:25]:
Okay.

Shamala Gadgil [00:46:26]:
So that kind of. So there are many things going on. But who is this going to benefit? It is going to benefit people who are currently unable to charge their vehicles, other than having to go into a hub or a parking facility where charges are there.

Liz Allan [00:46:47]:
Yeah.

Shamala Gadgil [00:46:48]:
Then their time, you know, their service business case is affected hugely. So what I'm getting at is that dynamic wireless charging, I think we need to start thinking about it because there is an exclusive. There is a sort of inclusivity issue as well. Because, I mean, if you think about it, large vehicle drivers, truck drivers, you know, you don't have to be a strong person to drive a truck. But when you look at these big megawatt charges, if you are not strong, how are you going to use those cables?

Liz Allan [00:47:37]:
Yeah. You need to be a bodybuilder to actually use it, then immediately.

Shamala Gadgil [00:47:42]:
The requirement for the job specification, not.

Liz Allan [00:47:46]:
Inclusive anymore, is it?

Shamala Gadgil [00:47:48]:
Exactly, exactly. So we will start thinking about this at some point, you know, and all the stakeholders will start looking at, oh, this is now a challenge because plug-in charging standard, it's going swimmingly well. That impetus, you know, that kickstart that was needed, it's there. The private sector is happy to bridge all those gaps now. Now you need to start looking at the service areas that are now struggling.

Liz Allan [00:48:26]:
It's like it's a jigsaw puzzle, this, isn't it?

Shamala Gadgil [00:48:28]:
I always say no.

Liz Allan [00:48:30]:
And it's about looking at the bits that are missing and finding the solution to kind of fit that bit that's missing. I was gonna, I was gonna ask you, so for the dynamic wireless charging and say if you're using it for a bus, how? Because I, I suppose I had it in my head that it might be like, is it in Norway or Sweden where they've got like a lane that's kind of like a charging lane. But I don't, it doesn't sound like that's what you're, you're saying how much when they're driving. Because, you know, you could have a, you could have a bus that's driving over that, you know, kind of that, that leg, that dynamic charging area every 15 minutes because it's literally just going backwards and forwards. How much, how much of the road would that be? When you're talking about it, all I'm.

Shamala Gadgil [00:49:20]:
Saying is, for example, you know, on the motorways you've got the inside lane where normally large vehicles are supposed to drive. Electrify those lanes. Yeah, that's it. You know, on the. More.

Liz Allan [00:49:35]:
So what, that lane is constantly a charging lane.

Shamala Gadgil [00:49:39]:
Exactly.

Liz Allan [00:49:40]:
And I mean like in a. In your city.

Shamala Gadgil [00:49:43]:
Yes, electrify the city centre area. But no, it depends because you have got buses coming in, you electrify those, you've got delivery people coming in. So that's why you electrify that. You don't tend to have many normal cars coming in because lots of cities have made that, you know, you don't come into the city, we don't have parking in the city kind of thing. So the people who need this. So, you're just outside of the city centre, I am saying the A roads have this, and the solutions are. Now I've been following this company called Electreon, which is an Israeli company. Their transport route is.

Shamala Gadgil [00:50:39]:
Is all dynamic.

Liz Allan [00:50:42]:
Is it?

Shamala Gadgil [00:50:43]:
Yes. They've also gone. They've got, they've opened another one in Germany. Sweden was. Sweden was their pilot. They've got so much data. They have also done it in Italy, in America, and in Michigan. So they have now got many locations where, if anybody's interested, they can go and have a look at the data.

Shamala Gadgil [00:51:04]:
What is coming out of that, you know, is absolutely crucial to have something like that for large vehicles. It does have the potential for the battery to be reduced because larger vehicles, what are they? They are cargo vehicles. They carry things. If you fill half the vehicle with batteries, the capacity to carry things reduces. So you provide these lanes, the battery size reduces, their capacity increases and it is inclusive. So I think it will come. And I feel because you know the TTF that you mentioned, the Transport Technology Forum, we just recently had a Strictly Highways conference in Blackpool. And I felt now I feel when I speak at these events I should now start introducing the dynamic charging or wireless charging as a topic.

Shamala Gadgil [00:52:06]:
It needs to be brought to the forefront now so that the necessary stakeholders can start looking at that. So what next?

Liz Allan [00:52:23]:
This is what I know, you've got more things. I'm going to ask one final question because I think this would be really, really interesting, actually to hear what you say when you look at everything that you've been doing because you, you have been, you know, in the role for a long time. You've been doing so many, so many different things. What one thing makes you the most proud of all of the things you've been doing?

Shamala Gadgil [00:52:52]:
One thing, Liz, what can I say? Everything that I'm doing is towards public health. I just feel that this is going to improve people's lives, you know, so all my, you know, come on, let's decarbonise. There is a reason it is one of the largest factors. You know, people are out and about, and they are inhaling idling vehicles. When you sit in there, in the traffic, in the traffic jam, all of this, you are in the middle, in the thick of giving yourselves. I don't know, illnesses, shorter lives, just, you know, just the health issues. And I feel that I am contributing, that's al,l towards reducing that. I love that.

Liz Allan [00:53:53]:
That's brilliant. You know, you know, me and you chat for ages anyway, so. And we could, I could probably maybe. I need to get you back on when you've kind of moved, you know, when some of these projects have come to fruition, and then we'll just talk about it again. But yes, I'm going to talk to you loads in between anyway. So I just want to say on this, on this at this point. Shyamala, thank you. It was wonderful to.

Liz Allan [00:54:17]:
I met you a couple of times in person, it's been wonderful to come and kind of get to know you, and I just think you're doing some amazing, innovative things for Coventry. So thank you ever so much for joining me.

Shamala Gadgil [00:54:29]:
Thank you so much, Liz. And just one thing, there is no way I would have been able to do anything without, you know, Coventry senior management and the members, they are very forward thinking, they've got the vision because local authorities definitely, you know, you just can't just do it, you know, you do need that backing and they need to have that vision, you know. So if I'm saying that I'm proud of this public health side of it, it is because they were with me and they allowed this to happen. So thank you for having me.

Liz Allan [00:55:07]:
No, it's not a problem at all. And so just as a final point for everybody, as I always say, every week, people need to hear these conversations. If you know any local authorities or you are from a local authority, then please just kind of make sure that you've listened and you share it. If you know people who might be worth sharing with, because a lot of the innovation from what Shamala and Coventry City Council are doing, we need to replicate a lot of this across the UK. So find, find us, find the podcast, engage with us, find that we've got an electric Evolution page on LinkedIn. We're kind of, you know, anywhere on social media. So, yeah, if you can engage with us and just spread the word, that would be fantastic. So to everybody and Shyamala, thank you for watching and listening, and I'm going to say, see you later.

Liz Allan [00:56:05]:
Bye.

Shamala Gadgil [00:56:06]:
Bye.