Episode 170: Liz Allan and Belinda Guy - Cutting Through the Noise: Making EVs Simple for Everyone

Episode 170: Liz Allan and Belinda Guy - Cutting Through the Noise: Making EVs Simple for Everyone.

Liz Allan speaks to Belinda Guy, founder of Belinda Automotive and a product marketing specialist who has rapidly become a recognised voice across the automotive and EV sectors.

Together, they explore the human side of communication in EV adoption, why clear, jargon-free messaging matters, how companies can better understand their audiences, and the role product marketing plays in shaping trust, confidence, and buying decisions.

Belinda shares her journey from secondary school teacher to automotive product marketer, discussing what she learned along the way and why she believes EV communication must be rooted in empathy, education, and real-world experience. The pair reflect on mindset shifts, misinformation, accessibility, and how to support consumers who are overwhelmed by unfamiliar language and big purchasing decisions.

Quote of the episode:

"If you don't understand who your product is for, how are you designing a good product? Everything starts with knowing your audience." Belinda Guy.

Belinda Guy Bio:

Belinda Guy is the founder of Belinda Automotive and a highly regarded product marketing specialist working across automotive, EV charging, and emerging mobility technologies. With a background spanning OEM environments, EV charging back-office systems, and consumer engagement, Belinda helps organisations understand their audiences, articulate value, and communicate more clearly. Her work focuses on simplifying complexity, strengthening product positioning and supporting commercial teams to sell with confidence. Belinda is also known for her accessible, educational social media content, where she breaks down automotive concepts for everyday drivers. 

Belinda Guy Links:

Website: https://www.belinda-automotive.co.uk/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belinda-automotive

Linktree: https://linktr.ee/belinda_automotive

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:02]:
Hi everyone, and thank you very much for joining me again on Electric Evolution. Today I've got an absolutely gorgeous human being with me. I have Belinda Guy from Belinda Automotive, and she's the mastermind behind Belinda Automotive. Belinda, thank you ever so much for joining me.

Belinda Guy [00:00:20]:
Thank you, Liz. I'm really excited to speak and yeah. To share some insights today.

Liz Allan [00:00:26]:
So we. We've not really known each other that long, but I feel like I've known you forever.

Belinda Guy [00:00:32]:
I feel like it's six months. I feel like it's that, isn't it?

Liz Allan [00:00:36]:
It is. And we actually met face to face for the first time on Saturday, didn't we?

Belinda Guy [00:00:42]:
We did. We did.

Liz Allan [00:00:43]:
You just said to me you didn't recognise me because I didn't have my glasses on.

Belinda Guy [00:00:48]:
Doesn't help, you know.

Liz Allan [00:00:50]:
I know, but I don't. I only need them for stuff like this, which is hilarious, you know, so. But, but yeah, it was, it was, it was so lovely. And it was something that was not related to the automotive or the EV industry. But that's a completely different conversation to have, isn't it? So let's start off, and I always talk to people about how they got into the sector and what kind of drew you to kind of doing what you're doing because. So your background is product marketing, isn't it? But let's talk about you before Belinda Automotive. What. What were you doing? What, what kind of lit you up about all of this?

Belinda Guy [00:01:32]:
Well, I fell into the sector by accident. I always start with that one. But I was actually a teacher prior to being part of the sector. Oh, God. A lot of people think I knew that, actually. So I was a secondary school teacher teaching English. So that was 11 to 16-year-olds. And I just kind of did it because I didn't know what I wanted to do after university.

Belinda Guy [00:01:57]:
I did what a lot of people do. Sometimes you stay on for another education. So that's what I did. And then I taught for a year and just thought, it's not for me, this isn't for me, and that's fine. So I ended up doing, as everybody does, hundreds of interviews, thousands of applications, and it whittled down to two options. Eventually, something to do with tech, or it was automotive. So eight years ago I. Eight and a bit years ago now, I actually started working in the automotive industry as a product marketer.

Liz Allan [00:02:30]:
Blimey. So, were you interested in automotive before you kind of came into it, then?

Belinda Guy [00:02:36]:
So I think I come from a different perspective because I was very much a child who, on Sundays, my mum and dad were watching Formula One, and my brother and I would be like, Ah, I can't be bothered to watch this. Let's go do something else. And then when I was 17, I really didn't want to learn to drive. And I said to my dad, I don't want to learn to drive. And he was like, you're going to learn to drive because we've been your taxi service for 17 years, and you're going to be ours. So I was like, okay. And then it wasn't really until I actually bought my. It was my third car because I, I had my first car for just over a year, but it was very old and it was very.

Belinda Guy [00:03:15]:
Not great to actually drive. It didn't last very long; the battery would die. You know, it wasn't great. And then I kind of got my second car. I just wasn't interested in it. My third car was when I got my Arris. And actually, I was about 20 when that happened, 21. That's where I sort of started feeling I had more autonomy in my decisions.

Belinda Guy [00:03:35]:
But it wasn't really until I started working as a product marketer in the industry that I actually fell in love with it. And I have not lef,t and you can't get rid of me, it seems.

Liz Allan [00:03:46]:
Well, that's all right because we don't want to get rid of you at all. Your name popped up so much, with kind of like the EV Cafe, because like we kind of, you know, we both watch the EV Cafe kind of news and things like that, you know, and I kept hearing this name Belinda guy popping up, and I was like, who is she? You know, and it's just been, it's been lovely to get, get to know you and we've kind of, you know, we talked before we started recording and we're both neurodivergent, as everybody knows. You've been listening to me for some time. You know that I am, but Belinda is as well. So we could talk for hours. We won't be doing that today, will we? We'll be making sure that we try not to go off on what I call a spicy tangent.

Belinda Guy [00:04:33]:
I mean, we'll try.

Liz Allan [00:04:35]:
We will try. We will try. But you've got so much to bring to this sector. You have already brought so much to this sector. Let's just talk about. The question is, what is product marketing? Because, you know, how does it differ from, to kind of regular marketing to social, you know, social media is part of it, isn't it? But. But what, what, what is it?

Belinda Guy [00:05:01]:
So, product marketing, I say it's actually the sexy side of marketing, but my fellow marketers will be like, well, it's not. So, as a product marketer, I basically get to look at things like your value proposition of a business and understand what the key and core value is that your product, service, solution, whatever it is, supplies to your customers. I then get to look at things like what the pain points are of customers, what is triggering them to make purchase decisions, and how we can support them on that journey. So it's not necessarily about forcing them to make a purchase, but making your business or your product stand out more than a competitor or similar products in the market. So there's that element to it, but it's actually a lot of the core piece when you look at a product marketer internally is they kind of, and I call us a mediato,r and a lot of other product marketers would agree with this, but many others say, oh, you're more than that. Basically, you are the tie between product marketing and sales. So you create the confidence within the sales teams to sell the products because you give them the messaging, you give them the benefits, you break it down, you help them understand their buyers more. For marketing, you give them the messaging to support more of those campaigns, to make sure the right people are being targeted.

Belinda Guy [00:06:19]:
And for product, you're basically taking the information, and it's, it's like a human dictionary or a thesaurus where you are changing all of the jargon, and you are making it into something much easier and more digestible for people to read and understand. So you know, it's a, it's a bigger spectrum than just that. You look at pricing, you can look at competitor research, and you can look at market share. There is so much a product marketer does. But you know, it, it, it depends because the world of product marketing is so big and a lot of people don't really know that you know what the core of product marketing is.

Liz Allan [00:06:56]:
And going back to the word jargon, yeah, there's a heck of a lot of jargon around, especially in the automotive sector and charger, EV charging, you know, when we talk, if we just specifically concentrate on electric vehicles, you know that level of jargon, you know, people coming into, even just buying an ev, you know, etc, that, that is kind of a bit mind blowing, isn't it? Really?

Belinda Guy [00:07:36]:
Yeah, so with EVs, obviously, part of the core selling point is the fact of some of the, you know, the zero emissions, the statistics, the figures. But the problem is, is that you can't quite talk about it and just put the figures out there because it doesn't make sense to a lot of people. It's. Even when you look at ICE vehicles, and you talk about miles per gallon, and you want a better miles per gallon, but a smaller CO2, that takes a lot of time to actually understand and work out. So when you've got the whole like, you know, kilo miles per kilowatt hour or even the zero CO2, people are like, what does this actually mean? How does this make sense?

Liz Allan [00:08:22]:
Yeah, yeah, so, so what you're, what you're basically doing is breaking that. All of that is kind of complicated. It's like spaghetti, isn't it really? You're taking that complicated spaghetti and making it into separate strings to. And then kind of going, right, this, this one works, that one doesn't work, etc. Etc.

Belinda Guy [00:08:44]:
It's like alphabetising spaghetti soup, isn't it? No, Alphabet spaghetti.

Liz Allan [00:08:49]:
I know what you mean. Yeah, that makes massive sense. So, so like you say, you're being that intermediary person between sales and marketing. Sorry, yeah, sales and marketing. Yeah, that. Who tends to have a person like yourself? Because, so, because I do. You know, until I got to know you a bit, I was kind of like, I, I didn't understand the importance.

Belinda Guy [00:09:19]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:09:19]:
Of, of what you're, what you're doing, you know, so, so what size companies would you do? You look at that and you kind of go, they need product marketing that doesn't. Do you know what I mean?

Belinda Guy [00:09:32]:
I think to some extent every business benefits from a level of product marketing. But for. It's much easier for much more established companies to have some form of product marketing function than a startup or scale up. Particularly because during those points, unless of course it's a product marketing business itself, you actually need to make sure that you've got the right people in and you've got to keep those budgets and those restrictions quite a bit tighter when you. Whereas for say the big brands, the car manufacturers, the like, even in some cases the EV charging manufacturers, actually having a product marketer really helps, particularly as we've got some of the like OGs now who are really continuing into like they're hitting the 22 years, 22 decades, two decades, you know.

Liz Allan [00:10:20]:
And when you say OGs. Come on. Not everybody knows that. Youngster speak, darling, come on.

Belinda Guy [00:10:26]:
When you say, OG, I'm actually quoting. So I don't know. Bill Murray, who does the London to Brighton EV rally, was using that term. And I always love just referring to people now. So OG just means like original. I think there's probably something else that it means on social media, but I'm not that down with the kids.

Liz Allan [00:10:46]:
And I heard it originally from Linda Grave, who calls herself an OG, you know, and she's, she's, she's amazing.

Belinda Guy [00:10:55]:
I always think that it's Original. Goddess, that's what I go for. But I'm like, maybe we can't attribute EV charging brands to goddesses.

Liz Allan [00:11:06]:
So, so product marketing as a whole then? Because you've worked across various sorts of parts of the sector, haven't you? Yes, you've kind of worked, worked with kind of automotive, you know, pure automotive, but you've also kind of worked on the charging side.

Belinda Guy [00:11:25]:
Yes.

Liz Allan [00:11:25]:
You know, kind of in the back office systems and things like that. How does, how does that differ between them all? You know, what, what are you looking at that's different for an automotive OEM, for example, versus a charging kind of back-office system provider, CPMS?

Belinda Guy [00:11:44]:
What I would say is that although you've got different audiences, I have five years of experience working alongside an OEM, which was B2C. My sort of last two and a bit years have sort of been a bit of a mix from B2B and B2C. A lot of the foundations are the same. So you're always selling to a human being at the end of the day. And that is one of the most truest things you know, whether it is that you're selling a car and you want, you know, your target audience, you're a strong, independent woman to be buying that vehicle or if it is a business and you want a workplace, to buy your EV chargers and whoever you are selling to is a human. So that is the core foundation of it. And I think sometimes we forget that when we have humans, especially in the B2B area, we think, ah, they're going to work, they've put their clever hat on today. And yes, there are things in our industries where I could tell you, like OCPP, I could tell you all this jargon stuff.

Belinda Guy [00:12:46]:
But if I'm going to talk to somebody who's introducing EVs for the first time, the likelihood is that within their wheelhouses, they may have a mixture of EVs, like electric vehicles. They may have like, they've. They've got more stuff that they need for their industry. So one of the things that I just sort of remind us is that as humans, we just kind of need to bring it back down. People should say when there is something they don't understand. But also, if you feel like you're doing a big presentation or speech and you've got a lot of confused faces, the likelihood is that you're not using the right language to actually address them. So even though you're selling different products, different things, this is the same for any industry, not just automotive construction, like all of the rest of it. It's who are you selling to, and what language do they speak? And that's the most important thing because.

Liz Allan [00:13:39]:
You do see, you know, I mean, I, I've watched like the CAFE news, for example, and that's why I kind of, you know, try and, try and make sure that who I'm talking to breaks it, breaks it down as, as much as possible. Because. Because of that messaging. Because it's not just people from the sector that are listening and watching, you know, but why. So why do people not realise? Why do companies not realise that humans are at the end? What, what is it? Is it just? Is it the. The people who are designing certain products, or whether they're creating software or whatever, you know?

Belinda Guy [00:14:17]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:14:18]:
Are they doing it? Are they not just not asking the end customer? Is that what it is?

Belinda Guy [00:14:24]:
Well, you've got to remember that there's one core factor that all humans have, which is the ego. So when you have somebody who, you know, even as a buyer, you are not just walking into a conversation, particularly in the B2B space, with, okay, I know exactly what I want, blah, blah, blah, you're actually walking in most times. People. The two most common reasons that people make decisions in B2B is because they either want a promotion or they want to save their skin. So when they bring that kind of ego in, that is something similar to what we also see in sales, where the salesperson could be bringing in those two things. I really want a promotion. I really want to do well. I really want to save my skin.

Belinda Guy [00:15:03]:
Could also be bringing in stuff. What's happening at home, what's going on in the wider world of work, and what is my mental health? Those are some of the most important things that we often forget. Because business, at the end of the day, when you say B2B, it very much feels like this organisation is doing business with this one. So they shake their hands, and it's done. But actually, you've got a huge complex system of human beings in it where you've got to win over people in order to get your business and in order to make the sales.

Liz Allan [00:15:34]:
Yeah, exactly. And actually, I suppose you do it from that side. And on an improvement point of view, I'm quite different to a lot of consultants out there because I am very people-oriented. And you're right, it's the root cause analysis of whether you understand root cause or not. But it's about what drives that person, isn't it? To me, you know, and so understanding their, their kind of, their, their why.

Belinda Guy [00:16:03]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:16:04]:
And that's what they're on, you know, and all of these other things that go together. Why, what, when, etc, and like you say, because if you don't understand the human side of things, you can't make improvements. So therefore. And your side thinks stuff from a product side. If you don't understand the people, then you can't get the message across.

Belinda Guy [00:16:26]:
Yeah. And what are you designing if you don't understand who the product's for? How are you designing a good product?  This is throughout the whole thing. It's knowing who your audience is. So as I say, like most entrepreneurs, when they're starting their business, they won't be able to go into a huge amount of detail with a product marketer, but they will always go in knowing that they have a problem that solves a solution. Sorry, they've got a, they've got a product that solves a problem. So. And they know who that prop. That they know who that solution is being sold for.

Belinda Guy [00:17:00]:
But it's going even deeper and saying, let's unpick that a little bit. What's from you? And most businesses may have two to three ideal buyer Personas. I'd say in the world of B2B, you normally have two to three people within each of your buyer Personas that you're most likely speaking to. So it's actually breaking it down further. What are their core pain points? Like if you're talking to somebody in procurement, for example, they're going to have a completely different pain point to the CEO of a business. They're going to have a completely different pain point to a marketer. So it's actually breaking down each of those pain points.

Belinda Guy [00:17:39]:
Looking at how your solution, software, product, whatever it is, serves those pain points and then sometimes being honest, is if there's a pain point you aren't solving, can we make the product do it, or is there something that we can say, such as an education piece? And oftentimes it might be that your buyers have a problem that they think is a problem, but actually it just needs a little bit of education support, and you give something for free, and then they trust you. And yeah, that's, that's some of the real deeper stuff that a product marketer does.

Liz Allan [00:18:11]:
I like that because that kind of reminds me of some of the stuff that, that, you know. Can I talk about it again on the improvement side, which is what we call delighters and detractors? Yeah, got the delight in that if you're constantly trying to delight people, but you don't actually know what people are and what they want. What you're delighting them about, you're literally going, yeah, but we're going to give them everything. Yeah, right. Well, is everything. What is everything? Yeah, but also, is everything in your mind? Is that actually what that person wants? Because I'm assuming that the importance of understanding the Persona of that buyer, isn't it?

Belinda Guy [00:18:48]:
Yeah, exactly. Otherwise, you're kind of. And if you don't actually know what you're solving, you'll lose trust with people who actively want to speak to you because they've reached out to you or they've engaged with you in some way because they see. See that you are going to help them. And it may be that they're talking to your competitors. So if you're not sure entirely, or you know, it may be somebody that's brand new to the business, who is just really struggling to articulate that that's where you need to spend more time, is actually making sure that people know. And if you get objections, because all businesses get objections, you know, it's just about how you handle them. Are there ways to talk to the strengths of the business, other ways to say this is where we want to go? And actually being much more open and honest with that kind of conversation does a lot better.

Belinda Guy [00:19:37]:
It depends on who you sell to. To you know, some people will. You're always going to get the critics. You're always going to get somebody who is going to be very hard to please. But at the same time, if your solution has value and you see that value weighed up, that's, you know, where you can lend your time, I think.

Liz Allan [00:19:55]:
Because, as you know, I'm getting on a bit now, so I've been around for a long time, and I've seen kind of sales and business development change a Lot. But what I still see from this sector sometimes is, and please, if you're a business development or sales, please don't take this the wrong way, but some, not all, some business development will actually try and just sell anything just to keep people happy.

Belinda Guy [00:20:26]:
Yeah, yeah.

Liz Allan [00:20:27]:
You know, and then it, and then it, you, they basically end up agreeing, any old tut as I would call it, you know, but actually then it comes in as a project, so it's signed on the dotted line, comes in a project, it's not discussed with the ops team or whoever it is or the projects. And then, and then they go, bloody hell, what have we just signed ourselves up to?

Belinda Guy [00:20:53]:
Yeah. Or on the flip side, you'll see that people will really heavily discount a product when they didn't need to. And obviously, you're losing revenue as a business if that's happening too. And suddenly you've then got to try and like make your team more efficient to meet that budget, and it can get really messy.

Liz Allan [00:21:11]:
Yeah, but it's. So, so how do you work as, so as a product marketer then? How can you kind of smooth that over? You know, you see this at both sides, I mean, and hopefully you wouldn't let it get to that stage where it does get to that, you know, that, that sale. Because you're kind of proving the worth of a product marketer, really. Yeah, you know, in that, in that level of understanding. But how, how do you stop it from getting to that sale, that, that section, you know, get into that place where that's happened.

Belinda Guy [00:21:45]:
So sometimes I think you'll find that it will happen naturally because when you're, when you're a startup, when you're an entrepreneur, you're still working out what is right and what feels right. And of course, to some extent, you want to listen, and you may want to take some opportunities because you value actually the brand you're working with more than the money that will come to you. And sometimes that works. But what I'd always say is the biggest thing, and this is not every product marketable work on this. Sometimes you've got another element of marketing called sales enablement. But I like to combine both because a product marketer can do both. But it's basically ensuring that your sales team feels comfortable and confident to talk about a solution. And it might mean that you do some bite-sized training.

Belinda Guy [00:22:29]:
It might be that when somebody new joins the business, you put them in front of whoever owns that walks them through what the products are, the solutions, the services, that kind of thing, and it's having that constant stream of content there so that you can go, right, there's a refresher here. So really it's now up to the teams to make sure that they're comfortable and happy. And of course, to some extent, if you realize, you know, you may use some kinds of software, such as there's some like, cool. It's not cool monitoring, but it basically listens to the sentiment of the calls that sales teams and other teams have. Did the customer relate to that? Okay, if they didn't, let's come back. Oftentimes, particularly with an industry like EV charging, where it's still really new, it's still really infant, you know, it's not yet really two decades old, is it? And it's one of those things where actually we're still, we're still learning, and we have to give ourselves that space. Space to continue learning. Even the same for automotive, with the changes coming through from technology, you know, with the advancements to ev, where there's still some apprehension where you're even simple things like the, the buttons on and the, the, the flat screens, like the arguments and conversations people have with that, you've got a level of constantly evolving and updating and learning.

Belinda Guy [00:23:53]:
And if everything were static, then it would just be quite boring, to be honest.

Liz Allan [00:23:58]:
Yeah, yeah, no, I totally get you. So I suppose the next question would be, how well do you think the automotive industry, whether these are big OEMs, whether they're, whether that's EV charging or whoever, how well do you think that they're communicating their shift to EVs?

Belinda Guy [00:24:21]:
I think right at the beginning, because it was all brand new and because it was a new concept, you know, obviously, EVs were one of the first cars to ever be created, but they kind of went away. People forgot about them for a bit. They were around in motorsport, but they weren't really that well-known. And I think it's. Whenever you get an element of change, it's like, for example, and definitely for somebody, me, who's like ADHD, somebody says, changes my plans last minute, I can't cope. And a lot of people feel the same way. With the move from ICE to EV, it's. And a lot of people in this industry say it's a mindset shift, you have to change how you see it.

Belinda Guy [00:25:01]:
And I think we, that was stuff that in hindsight we know we didn't, we couldn't have possibly known that when, when it was all starting, it was, for a lot of people, it was like, okay, cool, there's just another option for us on the roads. But now, I think as we've got legislation, regulations coming through, where it starts to feel more formal, that's when I think the public starts to panic a little bit, when organisations start to panic. And that's where we start to get a little bit more of that divide, that, like, misinformation comes through where you've got opposing opinions. And I think it's more so sometimes in this, not necessarily in EV charging, but across the entire automotive spectrum, where we've got insurance, where we've got, you know, technicians, where we've got manufacturing, all of that. I think sometimes we get caught up in those regulations or those, like, sudden changes that we actually ourselves don't take the time to understand what it means. And then we are essentially still trying to process it as we're telling you other people and trying to inform others what it means. If we take the time to actually digest that first, and then come up with a way for us, like a really good campaign, it doesn't necessarily have to be like thousands spent on it on adverts. It could be your CEO doing some thought leadership, some training.

Belinda Guy [00:26:19]:
It could be some key figures doing some kind of insights to customers. It could be things to help navigate. And again, it might be stuff that you're giving away for free, knowledge you're giving away for free. But at the end of the day, it's a really good way for people to trust and to learn, too. And in fact, I see it more. So a lot of my followers on social media are very much petrol heads. And when I talk to them about Evie, they come back with the exact same things that all of us see. Why would I want to wait 30 minutes to charge? Why would I want to do this? Why would I want to do that? And it's like, well, there are actually benefits to it, but it's a mindset shift.

Belinda Guy [00:26:58]:
And so much so, I say to them, Joe, I would just wouldn't knock it until you actually get to sit in a car and try it. And then when you've sat in a car, if you don't like it, fine, you've tried it, you've done it. But before you get that, don't just believe everything that you read, and, you know, just learn, you know.

Liz Allan [00:27:16]:
And I might have said this in the last, last episode that I was sat on the train to Wales actually. No, I haven't talked about this.

Belinda Guy [00:27:23]:
I don't think we talked about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liz Allan [00:27:26]:
That's what I knew I'd tell somebody, so I'm just telling you again. But. But basically, yeah, so I was a sat. I was sat. I was going to an event in Newport. It was run by CENEZ, and it's only just A week ago, a week tomorrow. And.

Liz Allan [00:27:39]:
And yeah, I was sitting next to a chap or opposite a chap, and I really didn't think he wanted to chat at all. But we just got talking, and I realised that he was a petrol head. Yeah, he worked for Confused.com. Really nice guy. Found the whole idea of electric vehicles confusing and, you know, kind of the charging and everything. And I told him I had a podcast and da, da, da, da. He might even be listening to this. You never know.

Liz Allan [00:28:10]:
You'll have to message me if it's you, you know, you are. And we did connect with LinkedIn, actually. But. But actually, I felt by the end, I'm, you know, I'm not saying that this was a thing, but at the end of the conversation, I think that that understanding, you know, putting it. Because I'm. I try and do it the same as you. If I talk about EVs, I try to make it simple. You can't change people, everybody's mind.

Belinda Guy [00:28:37]:
You can't.

Liz Allan [00:28:38]:
You know, if you've got a petrol head and they just want to listen to or read the Daily Mail or whatever, you know, or talk to Dave Dan the Pub, who says that right load of old cobblers and all this kind of stuff, then, then that's. That's up to them. But if they are open to that mindset shift, and you can make it simple enough for them to kind of. And I'm not trying to patronise anybody by saying it's simple enough. I just mean that it's. It's not always, you know, it's not easy with everybody, you know, my. I'd been driving, you know, for. Well, since I was 20 when I passed.

Liz Allan [00:29:16]:
That's another story. But. But you know, I've been driving for years when I switched to an EV, and I talked early on when we. When we got our EV, I cried when our Golf was taken on a transporter at the end of our drive.

Belinda Guy [00:29:34]:
And I was like, oh, wait, I know this is a really good idea, but.

Liz Allan [00:29:37]:
Oh, my God. You know, and actually. But I'll never look back.

Belinda Guy [00:29:43]:
No, no. You know, cars are emotional. They're an emotional experience.

Liz Allan [00:29:50]:
Not everybody gets emotional, do they? You know, but.

Belinda Guy [00:29:53]:
No, but like, you're, like, some of your most important memories happen in your car, like, whether it's your first date or you're driving, I don't know, to the birth of your child or something like that. There is always something that happens in a car. And I think that's where we just have to realise it's a human thing again, the human element. It's emotional. And, you know, people will be negatively emotional about EVs because they've read something or perhaps they know somebody's had a bad experience. And it's the same with everything. You know, we may have a bad experience with a holiday provider because they mess something up. We're never going to win over everybody.

Belinda Guy [00:30:28]:
But we can lead by example, and we can. And that's the thing. It's like, you can't change people, you can only change yourself. So if you change yourself and you lead by example, then people will start to get curious. And if it just means that, you know, the petrol heads take a bit of time, that's fine, you know, that they're not obliged to have to get on with it and change their status quo, you know, and it's. It's just knowing that it's very much at your own pace. Although you know, we'd like to see a good adoption of EVs.

Liz Allan [00:30:59]:
We would, but you just hit. You hit on the head. And we've been talking about this. Think about how they feel. How about that emotional experience?

Belinda Guy [00:31:07]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:31:08]:
And some of it. And again, that education piece of this is what it's about, rather than just assuming that everybody understands this, you know, so. And I've seen this a lot in the sector that that kind of people get angry about. About negative things that are being said.

Belinda Guy [00:31:27]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:31:28]:
Why is it, you know, why do they? Why do they? Why do you know, and our sector is amazing. Anybody who's worked in the EV sector, you know, kind of, they're just all fantastic. But don't get angry. Try and understand why those people are kind of. Yes, you know, why they're resisting. Yes. There are negative news stories, and we had to, you know, we had so much.

Liz Allan [00:31:51]:
And I've talked about misinformation so much on this podcast, I get that, you know, and it is overcoming that. It's not easy. But don't get angry with it. You know, we've got to actually try and be a bit rational and tech, because that means we're just putting our emotion into it, aren't we?

Belinda Guy [00:32:08]:
Exactly. And if we try to put our emotion into changing somebody else, the likelihood is that it's going to be negative if they were unsure in the first place.

Liz Allan [00:32:16]:
You just fight against them.

Belinda Guy [00:32:18]:
You are. I mean, and there's, I think the thing we have to be real about is that there are still barriers for people to drive EVs. And I know that some people will say there's not, and there's less, but I'm always like for me, and I'm always open and honest about this. I live in the middle of the countryside. I have one rapid charger near me. My local Tesco has just. Which is 30 minutes away, has just put charges in. So we now have charges that are going in and live at some point.

Belinda Guy [00:32:46]:
But until that point, as you know, it is especially so in a conservation area, so rural, you know, I don't own my house. There are still circumstances where people are also a little bit, you know, they're hesitant because they just don't know yet. You know, people may want to move. They with more new builds coming in with charges on the front of them. That gives them more exposure to it. It's the tangible marketing piece. The other thing is, and this is definitely something that I experienced, is that most of the, you know, nobody really has a shop that talks or has like EV chargers in them. And I know that Sarah MacArthur did that one, where you could go in and see it.

Belinda Guy [00:33:27]:
But there aren't often those opportunities for people to actually see a charger. And if it's something that's going on at your house.

Liz Allan [00:33:34]:
Yeah, it's not like Vodafone or EE or shopping, you know, like an Apple shop where you can actually go just. Can you come and shut? Can I just have a look at your different chargers today? What do I actually do? So nobody's got a freaking clue of how to do this, have they? In some ways. So if we don't make it easy for them, you know, then, then actually we're just doing ourselves a disservice because these cars especially are bloody brilliant. You know, the fact that I can actually defrost my car from inside the house while my neighbors are outside with.

Belinda Guy [00:34:09]:
Their scraper, you know, like I've got warm hands.

Liz Allan [00:34:13]:
I hate looking back, looking out the window, feeling a bit smug. But you know, my neighbours actually said to me, Oh my God, I can't believe it. You just jumped in your car, you know.

Belinda Guy [00:34:24]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:34:24]:
And it's. And it is, it's fun, you know, so. But it's not just that. There are just so many benefits of not having to walk past a stinky car for a start off because, you know, if an EV reverses into a garage. Would you want us? You know, you can stand behind it, but you want to do it with a petrol or a diesel car or whatever, you know, this kind of stuff, just simple things. But just let's talk about it and make it simple. And that's what you're talking about, really, isn't it?

Belinda Guy [00:34:50]:
Yeah, that's absolutely it. And it's, it's the simple things of, you know, whether it's an EV charger or an EV, people are going to have their opinions. But it's like the good old saying, bums on seat sells cars, you know, and it's just let people have the experiences, whether it is to go and see a commercial charger or charge on a network for the first time, or go and see what the actual home charge is going to look like before you, you know, pay all the money to have it installed and put on your house. It's their big decisions, and they may not feel so big to us in the industry who are. So it's our everyday. But to consumers they are and even businesses, they are big decisions.

Liz Allan [00:35:28]:
Do you know, I'm just wondering now, and this is if you're going to teach my ID, let me put it in it. No, you know, sometimes you, you know how you can get, you know, like you can order something on a website and it'll, if you've got it on your phone, it'll go see how this looks in your house and you can do like an augmented reality thing and go see how it looks, you know, like the charger. See how it looks on your wall. Yeah, yeah, that kind of stuff. You know, just sometimes it's just that thinking outside the box, outside the charging.

Belinda Guy [00:36:01]:
Box, outside the fuse box.

Liz Allan [00:36:04]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, but also, also kind of, there are things that people just don't understand that, you know, where, like, you get the car, you need the. If you've got a drive, which, you know, lots of people are lucky, but some people aren't. But you've got a drive, what do you need to know? Because you know about the home charger installation.

Belinda Guy [00:36:26]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:36:26]:
Don't send that person 20 questions or 20 things that they need to find out about what kind of coaxial cable or whatever needs to be put in. Make it simple.

Belinda Guy [00:36:38]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:36:38]:
You know, if you can't have a technician going there, then at least let them do a video call with you or something. It's. Yeah, it's.

Belinda Guy [00:36:45]:
That might.

Liz Allan [00:36:46]:
It's not killer, is it?

Belinda Guy [00:36:47]:
It's not. And that's probably where some of the home charging brands will go, and they may be doing it already, which is brilliant if they are. And it's like even like the trunking. Always remember like how much trunking you'd need and where your fuse box is. That's the stuff. As if you're right there at the beginning, you've got your camera and you can say no, not here, or take a picture of where your fuse box is and then walk the distance to your car. Like mine is the other side of my garden. So if I were to have one put in, I'd have to have groundwork.

Belinda Guy [00:37:17]:
So it's stuff like that about knowing, okay, what do I need to expect? Like, what's my standard installation going to look like, what's going to be included?

Liz Allan [00:37:26]:
Yeah, like I say, you know, photos don't always give justice to the, the distance. Like you said, yours is at one, the other end, you know, so, so if you can do, even if it's just not, doesn't have to be a video call because I know that video calls take time, but actually if you've got to ring somebody as a, you know, like a home charge company, for example, or it's facilitated by a dealership and you know, and etc. Etc. Etc. And you haven't got what you need, you're gonna have to ring that person anyway, you know, or you end up delaying it or that. Or you get a technician to come, and it's a failed visit because they can't do what you were hoping they were going to do. And then you'll just get somebody, you know, the customer at the other end who's not happy, just do simple stuff like get them to video it, you know, walk from one place to another or how many steps to. Does it take you, you know, I'm not talking in front of the, you know, but just how far is it? You don't need it.

Liz Allan [00:38:26]:
Just on average, what have you got to do to get to your fuse box to do this? What does, what do things look like? Just try and make it easy for people.

Belinda Guy [00:38:36]:
Yeah, that's it. And it gets them involved as well, even to some extent. Obviously, some people may not be able to do that because they may not have the ability to, you know, go from their fuse box to their driveway or whatever it is. But for those that can, it gives them the opportunity to actually see it from, you know, another perspective what this change means, it gives them some more insights, more education to it, you know, and it could even Be simple things that they, during this journey, they pick up some vocabulary or they pick up something about, you know, the tariffs, like jewel tariffs, which many people, you know, even if they're not driving ev, don't really know about, that they can leverage and have, like, cheaper usage at night. You know, there's all of this stuff as well, that even if you're not an EV driver, you're an, you know, you, you might not even be a driver at all. There's so much stuff that you can benefit from learning.

Liz Allan [00:39:30]:
So what kind of questions are you being asked? So you've got, you've got a number of social media channels and your community communicating to people in the way that you communicate. What are you being asked? What you know, are you kind of. Because I know what social media is like. Sometimes you can just get a load of trolls on there, giving you a right load of earache. But for the ones who are really looking for information, what kind of questions are they? Are people asking about EVs and about charging and all you know about, about the kind of the automotive sector in general?

Belinda Guy [00:40:06]:
Yeah, I get a lot of people asking, Why electric? Why not hydrogen? And I think that's obviously something that's going to come out more and more because people are getting involved and interested in that debate, which I think is good because they're learning both sides of that argument. Then I also get people asking, like, simply, why this car? Why did you review that car? And which is really interesting because they want to know my thought process as to why I'm talking to them about it. Because I do a mixture. I don't just do EVs. I go across the board. I talk about, I try and make it simpler and easier for people to understand, particularly if they're like, driving for the first time. I barely knew anything other than how to drive, thank goodness. But it's like, what, what are some things that you should learn when you're growing into the dealers? Like, for example, if you don't know what questions to ask the dealers, how on earth will you get the information you need? Yeah, I have had people say, well, why would I want to, you know, the typical.

Belinda Guy [00:41:04]:
Why do I want to stop and charge for 30 minutes when I could fuel up in five? And I've had that one so many times. But what I normally say to them is, if you're doing long journeys, you shouldn't be sitting for that long. You shouldn't be driving for that long without a good break. You need some time, you know. Regularly, we were sitting, we went up to, on a. Like, it took us about three and a half hours to get up to Birmingham the other day, and I had to stop twice on the way back because I felt my sciatic nerve kicking in. Oh, and it's stuff like that, isn't it? It's like I need to get up, I need to move around, like my hips are hurting. And actually, you've got to be in tune with that because if we just sat for long periods, unless, you know, we've got somewhere we need to be, we've got time, and we should be giving ourselves that opportunity to refresh. Like, even we went to the services, and I went and got some water, and I got some like fizzy drinks, and I got some snacks.

Belinda Guy [00:41:58]:
I was in there for 25 minutes, you know, so after walking down there, it could have just been a few minutes on the charger, just getting some charge in if needed. I think there's just, it's explaining that side of it that people don't see the mindset shift. But what I often get is, from that is, you know, if you're driving for that long, you know, most likely you'd have a home charger, you may have a workplace charger, you try and utilize things that are closer to you, that you know and trust and that are local and that you can, you know, rely on. But at the same time, like, you may charge every so often on the public network to go for those long-distance journeys. And let's be honest, if you're going for that long and you're not stopping, you really need to think about that from a safety angle, not like a fueling up and charging angle, because you can't go for that long without burning out when you drive. You don't want that.

Liz Allan [00:42:49]:
Exactly. Because I was going to say, when did we stop doing this, and when did we stop looking after ourselves? Do you know what I mean? You know, we didn't always have cars that could do 500 miles on a tank of petrol or whatever, did we? When did we, when did we get to a point as a, as a culture, say? I'm just going to say the UK, for example.

Belinda Guy [00:43:12]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:43:13]:
When did we stop stopping?

Belinda Guy [00:43:16]:
Yeah, yeah, and you're so right. And it goes back to the whole human element of it. I think definitely there is something from COVID that we all need to look at and understand how that's changed us, and I'm sure we'll get some research and things over the next few years. About how that's all changed us. But also, like, I think there's a lot of generational side of things where we will just. It's in the same. In the workplace, are you going to work and work until you burn out? Because that gives you a badge of honour. When actually you could work smarter, not harder, and you could do the same things during your work hours and receive, you know, receive the same results.

Belinda Guy [00:43:54]:
And it's actually, it goes back to the whole thing of, you know, it's really no argument when you put it. You know, if somebody wants to drive petrol, just own. Driving a petrol, just own it and just say you're not ready, and that's fine. But it's like, there's no thing of saying, well, why would I want to stop for 30 minutes? I explained to the guy when I spoke to him, I was like, You don't have to stop for the full 30 minutes. You don't have to charge it all the way to 80 or 100; you could just get it to 60. You don't have to do the allocated time. You know, you can do what works for you. So if you're stopping, your kids need a wee, let's be honest, that's gonna at least take 20 minutes, 30 minutes.

Belinda Guy [00:44:34]:
You might as well just use that time if you can. And if you don't need to, you don't need to. Like, it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. I think the only place where we see it more complicated is, is obviously if there's not accessible charges. And then I think that itself needs to be. To be an. A really important and prioritised discussion.

Liz Allan [00:44:54]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm. And I know that the work with EVA England is doing, you know, and obviously motability and companies like that are putting forward changes to the PAS 1899, which is the kind of guidance for charging, you know, accessible charging, etc. Even, I mean, it's, it's so important, isn't it, to make charging go on to that specifically accessible, but, you know, so accessible for everyone. So people who are in wheelchairs, people are on crutches, parents with boogies, you know, and even so, like somebody who's.

Belinda Guy [00:45:38]:
Charging late at night. Yeah. Lighters lit up areas.

Liz Allan [00:45:43]:
Yeah. And actually, so we were. After we went, after I saw you in Birmingham, my friend and I came back, and we went to a service station, which I don't normally do. I would normally go somewhere else, but it was pitch black. Yeah, and actually, but there were no charging instructions. So, you know, like some. Be inclusive, make it simple, communicate, you know, we were very lucky that we kept to, you know, you. We.

Liz Allan [00:46:11]:
I use Octopus Electroverse a lot when we're. When I'm out charging, but if I didn't use that, I wouldn't, you know, as a newbie coming into charging, for example, I would not have known how to charge my vehicle using that specific charger.

Belinda Guy [00:46:28]:
Yeah, absolutely. And it's even stuff, you know, like if you want to charge overnight but you haven't got a home charger because you're in a flat or you just haven't had one installed yet, you don't necessarily want to be over at the public network, you know, especially if it's late at night and you need to charge ahead of the morning. It's like the work that Mohammed Dede is doing at Charge Share, where you can book someone's home charger and just know if it's compatible. And if you're a disabled driver, within the biographies and things, it will often tell you, like, where the charges are, you know, where they're located, if it's a suitable space, that kind of thing. So I think there's so much more that we do. There's. We're doing a lot. There's so much more we need to do.

Belinda Guy [00:47:06]:
And we need to stop seeing accessibility as an afterthought, because when you've got an accessible network, it doesn't just affect, like, drivers with disabilities or disabled road users, it actually affects everybody. You know, if you're a parent, as you said, with a buggy, if you are somebody, like, for example, with my adhd, there are days when I can't get my words out, so I can't always get on a telephone and explain things because I can't get the words.

Liz Allan [00:47:32]:
Yeah. You have what we both have. Well, what I call a brain fart moment. I just.

Belinda Guy [00:47:36]:
I call it. I call it a flower sieve.

Liz Allan [00:47:39]:
Yeah.

Belinda Guy [00:47:42]:
Right.

Liz Allan [00:47:42]:
It is. Because just. And actually, you know, it's not just. It's not just women, it's not just ADHD, as, you know, although menopause is another thing. But, yeah, blokes as well. And it's.

Belinda Guy [00:47:54]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:47:54]:
And actually. But it's making things simple because. And with, you know, in a lot of cases. I'm not saying I shouldn't say, in a lot of cases, there are men who won't ask.

Belinda Guy [00:48:04]:
Yeah, yeah.

Liz Allan [00:48:05]:
Because they find it, you know, it. To them, it seems a weakness if they ask because they don't know something. You know, it's like asking for directions. It's more likely that I will, you know, it's things like that. Try and make it simple, be in that person's head.

Belinda Guy [00:48:21]:
Exactly. And it goes back to the whole product marketing point of the buyer Personas. You're in that person, you know what they're thinking, you know, and it doesn't matter if somebody is so advanced that they could use the whatever public charger is like without with their eyes closed, you're going to have people that are still coming through that have not yet bought ev, that have no idea what they're doing and they still need help, they need hand holding. It's like, you know, we're not going to stop having new EV drivers because. Because at the age of 17, we get a brand new batch of drivers every year, you know. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:48:54]:
And actually, do you know what? All you need is somebody who's had a bad day.

Belinda Guy [00:48:58]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:48:58]:
Or there's somebody who's all of a sudden realised that they've got an upper body issue. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, I was talking to somebody the other day, and they tripped up, hurt themselves, and their shoulder was weaker all of a sudden, you know, so handling cables and things like that. At some point, all of us, and you're only a youngster, all of us are going to be less able-bodied.

Belinda Guy [00:49:25]:
Exactly.

Liz Allan [00:49:26]:
We have to think about that.

Belinda Guy [00:49:28]:
But this is also the thing. It's like there's a lot of really amazing content creators out there that talk about disability awareness, and they always say things like, you know, what if you're, what if you were disabled tomorrow? Would your life, how would your life change? And it's so like important to think that because when you look at the difference in what disabled, you know, people with disabilities have to go through versus those that don't have that disability or don't have that life experience. We actually realise there's a massive gap. So if we could do something, and that's raising awareness, and it might just be that the screen is slightly lower. Oh well, the chart, the card reader is a little bit lower down, like, it's even like a petrol pump when the pumps are at your hip height. And that works in a lot of cases. If you have the same thing, the charging guns at hip height. It's stuff like that, isn't it? That, you know, just if we think about it, it's just going to make things a lot easier for a lot of people.

Belinda Guy [00:50:29]:
And I get there'll be scenarios when that can't happen. And the site may not be able to prioritise that and understand that. But if we think about it with that mindset first, I think that's going to be ideal.

Liz Allan [00:50:41]:
And I think the other thing is from the other side, going back to the automotive, the OEM or the dealership, so that the manufacturers or the dealership make sure that you include all of the things in what you're giving them. So what regenerative braking is how it drives different, what the, the difference between the battery life will be when it's in the, when it's in the summer versus the, in the winter. You know how to use a charger.

Belinda Guy [00:51:11]:
Yeah, yeah. And what's the actual difference between if you've got two battery packs, what does that actually mean? You know, and I see a lot of brands now bringing out two, the same car with two different battery packs, and just going 60 kilowatt, 90 kilowatt, there you go. I'm like, okay, why, like what, what, what is your key selling point for it? Because don't make me do the work, as a potential buyer. Yeah, you need to do the work and tell me, yeah, I'm lazy and I don't want to, I don't want to work it out for myself. But it's true.

Liz Allan [00:51:42]:
No, but you shouldn't, you shouldn't have to be able to, have to work it out for this, you know, for them. Nobody should have to work it out for themselves. And actually, there's no real one single source of truth. So we've got, we've got EV uk, so Electric Vehicles uk. I know there's a lot of information on that. You. We've got to point them in the direction where the information is provided. Not everybody knows about EV UK, not everybody knows about Eva England, you know, but it's just making sure that all of this information is communicated as easily as possible.

Belinda Guy [00:52:18]:
Yeah. And as I say, the industry itself is still, still infant compared to the wider automotive like Umbrella. So there's so much more that we can learn. But if it's like word of mouth is the best way for us to talk about products and services and people. So if you know somebody who's just got an Electric vehicle, mention Eva England, mention Electric Vehicles UK, say all the great events, mention Liz's podcast, like to learn more things, you know, get them all.

Liz Allan [00:52:45]:
To listen to Electric Evolution.

Belinda Guy [00:52:46]:
Yeah, yeah. And hit that subscribe button.

Liz Allan [00:52:49]:
Thank you. But yeah, absolutely, all of those things. So I'm going to ask you one Final question. So, for those people who are watching and listening, who don't have a product marketer, can you just give them one pointer on what they need to do to help themselves?

Belinda Guy [00:53:14]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:53:14]:
Besides getting a product marketer or bringing you, or actually just do that? Yeah, because.

Belinda Guy [00:53:22]:
I would say know your value proposition. If you're not familiar with it, then you need to spend some time actually working out your product service solution, whatever it is, does X to serve X. And there are loads of online ways to write a value proposition and loads of formulas to help you. I'd say that's the first. And then if you've got other people that work in your business, do they understand what your value proposition is? And if they don't, then you've got a communication barrier there. So you need to work on that. And then the other thing is looking at business objectives. Does your value proposition marry up with your business objectives? That's a really important one because if you can't see clear links, then one of them needs to be reviewed.

Belinda Guy [00:54:07]:
And then I would say the last one because I don't want to overwhelm. There's so much more you can do, but it's actually understanding who your target audience is. So I'd normally say that if you're B2C, you'll know that you'll probably have a primary, a secondary and maybe a third buyer Persona that you want to target. But you'll focus most of your marketing on your primary. And then, secondary should be a trickle-down. So, understand that the primary buyer comes first. Get some information about them, how old they are, what kind of job they might have, where they might live, if that's all relevant. And if you're a B2B, it's a similar thing.

Belinda Guy [00:54:43]:
But look at your primary like segment or target audience. What kind of business do they have? What are their key pain points? And then you can build out your second and third after that. But essentially, without those three things, your marketing can basically become a little bit all over the place. So it helps to keep you grounded.

Liz Allan [00:55:02]:
And that's, and that's what a Persona. Because I suppose it's funny, isn't it kind of like understanding the Persona of who you are, who's buying from you? It's not just about what you want to sell, it's about who you want to buy from you and what you want that message to be. Because if it's all over the shop, then you know, how does that person know what you're selling? And like you say, if you've got business development people out there or salespeople out there who can't communicate and they're all communicating differently, then it's about that unified message, isn't it? Really?

Belinda Guy [00:55:37]:
It is. And to be honest, that's with any business, whether automotive or across any sector, if you feel that there are people who can't communicate what your product does, then you need to come back together because otherwise you're spreading mixed messages and that doesn't do very much for your brand, unfortunately.

Liz Allan [00:55:53]:
No, exactly. Oh, do you know, you know that we could talk for ages. No, I mean, we've done, we've done 50, 56 minutes now and it's amazing, honestly.  I just, this woman is just the font of knowledge. So I will be sharing your, all of your different social accounts and you know, and, and your website. Still, please connect with Belinda because she's just, yeah, an amazing woman, and we've, like I say, we've not known each other for so long, but God, you know, we had the three-hour call last week, and it was only supposed to be an hour, but just the knowledge that you've got is fantastic. So thank you. I think for those of you watching and listening, you are going to have learned even if you knew about marketing, there'll be something that, you know, Belinda's just shared that will make a massive difference to you. So thank you for joining me, darling.

Belinda Guy [00:56:53]:
Thank you very much for having me, and yeah, I've really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

Liz Allan [00:56:58]:
I can't wait to actually see this go live and get people's feedback on it. But no, it's been fantastic.

Belinda Guy [00:57:05]:
Thank you. I'm really grateful that you gave me the platform to do it. So thank you.

Liz Allan [00:57:09]:
That's what, that's what we're here for. So, so to everybody watching and listening, I'm going to say thank you to you all, and I hope you got a lot out of this. Please do what I usually ask, you know, like subscribe, share, share all of the content, and just talk, talk to each other, and keep spreading the word because we're all doing a lot of good stuff. She's doing good stuff, we're trying to do good stuff, you know, and everybody in the sector is so, so please connect. But on that note, I'm going to say thanks again. Thanks for watching. Listen, I'll see you later. Bye-bye.